I think Yamo gonna be begging for some 15 carries
#protection
sand egret
lol
sick sentinel
I just hope they split the artifacts for transmog asap
primal crypt
Did they say that wS going to happen?
sick sentinel
I think they did
open bluff
iirc they said "not gonna happen because we're lazy"
sick sentinel
pretty sure
sand egret
they said the opposite
open bluff
they cited "technical issues" for why shit's broke in the first place
and basically said "yeah we're not fixing it"
sand egret
aka artifacts were a hack in the first place
open bluff
the real problem with artifact mog though
sand egret
and to make this system was to flesh out already tenuous systems for little gain
open bluff
is the fact that the shield is the actual prot "artifact"
but mog is tied to the 1h instead
sick sentinel
that's the thing
I want the axe with mage tower shield D:
or flail with something other
cold owl
The flail with any grunge shield would look super slick. Don't care much for the boars head shield.
ancient ore
does a shield count as a weapon or armor
uneven mason
flail has the most idiotic animations
Uh, I think they're "weapons"
but I'm not sure
sand egret
they are
uneven mason
as far as like, caches
sand egret
cachce's, tf rules, etc
uneven mason
like will the weapons cache cough one up - I don't know
main vault
They will
uneven mason
groovy
main vault
Assuming so since the cache has given off hands
sand egret
my friend got one out of the cache today
uneven mason
kk
so that answers that
they're wepaons
I mean, it should be obvious for us
we hit things with ours
crystal creek
so it can WF but no TF.
main vault
Right
sand egret
those item slots are "weapons" in that respect
as they are part of the weapon's budget
short temple
375 chest with Iron Fortress, Crystalline cara and Resounding prot vs 375 chest with Bastion of might, Crystalline cara and Gemhide?
sick sentinel
IF for raids, BoM for m+
short temple
alright mate ty
wild harbor
hi, I've got a question. what do we prefer more as a secondary stat: mastery or versatility?
stark sage
they are pretty close, mastery for blockable physical damage, verse for magical damage
but doesnt really matter
just go for ilvl
wild harbor
thank you very much
daring marlin
the real question is
Will M+ be dropping 400 gear on raid launch day!?!?
at +10 obviously
bronze lantern
would be kinda dumb if it did during hc week
daring marlin
hue
keen galleon
Fortified bursting first week
daring marlin
ezpz
wide girder
is any point to use double azerit veins?
daring marlin
lol
supple path
It's a trait that varies in value depending on a lot of factors.
daring marlin
He thinks AV is good
supple path
But no one can answer if it's worth using for you without knowing what your other options are.
General rule though - if you don't care about the healing it's adding, go for a DPS alternative.
wide girder
I just tested IP peice instead of archive
cant say smth definetly
IP+AV and archive + one of dd trait t2 (cant remember) + shield
maybe 2 option is really better
crystal creek
Ty emissary.
wide girder
old content
lavish oracle
Just go Gutripper(x3) and call it a day
marble cipher
With a lack of other descent prot traits on my shoulders, is this any good?
AV and IV are lovely, on my monk, don't know if they are equal on warrior (mainly for M+ btw)
final mist
Yeah, they're both generally good traits.
wide girder
That traits combo is perfect for heal. Another 2 could be for damage
final mist
Gemhide is pretty good too.
marble cipher
got gemhide on another piece
I know two is good too, but, would've guessed the increased healing from IV is better if I already have 1 GH
And, Bloodsport is fine?
Can get DC in my 390 helm that I use for fury, so, I can just switch that around if tanking
tulip arch
Thoughts on if the 370 is better than the 355 for M+? I imagine the 360 and 355 are better for raiding purposes.
uneven mason
yes the 370 is better
marble cipher
can I macro a 1m trinket to Avatar? Will it drop to 1m often enough while tanking?
would need to spend 300 rage to make that happen π€
probably not possible
faint grove
I love that rage isnβt gained when hit with spells, even though being kited is one of the most rage inducing things that can happen
faint grove
Zen warrior
sweet pike
Really love it when every emissary weapon I've ever gotten is a 2 hander
Definitely wanna play arms/fury in current state
daring marlin
Fury is gr8
sick sentinel
I heard living in a trash den is also gr8
sick sentinel
I must champion my name at all costs, so expect me anywhere
sick sentinel
sick sentinel
amber zephyr
is there a haste breakpoint for prot?
vocal nimbus
no
ancient reef
100%
lusty grotto
yikes
daring marlin
lol
sand egret
didn't even blackout the name
daring marlin
blade is perfect
sand egret
straight put him on blast
but ya know what, he don't care. ya know why?
cuz he's
indomitable
daring marlin
yeah!
sand egret
damn that shit gives me a whole 20k life
chilly brook
bro I mean I tried helping him
just ignored me
Yo dude
Enhancement shaman is dope
oblique garnet
@marble cipher you get avatar back in 40-50seconds now so its not bad to magro the trinket into it
median wigeon
Grats man. Gonna be even better next week
sick sentinel
its possible, im close to breaking 1500 soon myself
need to do KR/UR at 14 then I can start working on 15's
Aka, some mother fuckers need to put their 14 UR/KR kings up
quiet crane
WTB group that knows their class and dung and can cheat anything above 12 π¦
Chest
#puglife
warm plinth
It'll definitely be really good imo. DC and the bleed trait I've heard works on Necrotic now.
floral tinsel
The engineering traits are hard to evaluate
especilly since you get a set of very random traits replacing the 4th ring
on other helms that ring has class specific stuff
Also yeah.. DC is mandetory, but in the new raid there are pretty much pazerite pieces in every slot with DC on it
open bluff
second boss has a DC helm iirc
warm plinth
Might be something to get if you're an engineer already, at least for M+. The traits aren't terrible, but for a raid environment or non-necrotic you'd probably want the class trait instead. I don't think it'll be BiS, but it seems good to me
shut summit
bleed trait only takes away 1 stack of necrotic fwiw
warm plinth
Oh, for real?
shut summit
so not really that outrageous
warm plinth
Yeah that's kinda lame.
If the proc rate is high enough, it might be good enough to slow your stack growth I guess. Do you know how often it procs?
shut summit
floral tinsel
So by direct comparison, how would you rate the engineer helm to this?
To be fair, isn't the Callous
Reprisal talen shit?
the %-wise stacking damage reductions seems like a good idea until you see that the stack only lasts for 8 seconds
lusty grotto
there are other DC options
floral tinsel
Seems like its going to be really hard getting Azerite gear that have all good powers
lusty grotto
not just helms
floral tinsel
I know
I am just trying to asses if I should bother with prefarming some of the maths for the engineer helm or not
lusty grotto
it is decent ilvl
oblique garnet
The thing is
lusty grotto
remember ilvl > all
oblique garnet
Prot doesnt have shitty traits
lusty grotto
and especially if it has DC
Bloodsport + DC is really solid
so i would say it would be worth pre-farming
if you want to do it
floral tinsel
oki, cool π
lusty grotto
we have no idea on the drop rates for breaths or tidalcores though
so that might take a bit
floral tinsel
yeah
tidalcores I don't see as a problem as I spam a lot of higher m+
especially once the new season hits
oblique garnet
Tidalcores drop at the end of mythic dungeon
Just like hydrocore
Im assuming breath has the same drop rate as sanguicell
lusty grotto
if the drop rate is similar, then i guess /shrug
floral tinsel
breaths.. if they will be any close to sanguicell there will be a steady stream of that as welll
oblique garnet
It says it in the tooltip of tidalcore
floral tinsel
So for me personally (I am crazy enought to have engineering + enchanting on main) the expulsom is the real pain in th butt to farm π
lusty grotto
yeah
floral tinsel
but its doable..
floral tinsel
but feels kinda dumb spending several hours farming for a helm I can't even decide if its good
lusty grotto
shrug
floral tinsel
but yeah... perhaps like you say.. mediocre traits and high ilvl makes it good
oblique garnet
Id rather take helm with 2x prot specific traits
floral tinsel
If you look at the comments above, I am pretty much trying to make a comparison between these two (as this is the "easiest" helm to get of similar ilvl)
lusty grotto
yeah im with Late on this one, not worth
lusty grotto
shrug
floral tinsel
yeah :/
lusty grotto
engi not worth
floral tinsel
π¦
floral tinsel
sure, but residium options will take a month before you get a specific piece
lusty grotto
it wont take that long at all
oblique garnet
Dont bother farming specific piece
floral tinsel
you get about 1k TR/week... and the price of specific one is probably going go to be 6k
oblique garnet
With the additional ring you can easily get the 1 dc you really need
lusty grotto
hmmm.... c'thraxxi will be DC + either IF or Bloodsport, hmm
floral tinsel
sure.. I am not concerned about not getting DC or BoM.. more about haveing rings with subpar traits, like the revenge one
oblique garnet
Its not even bad
lusty grotto
revenge trait isn't bad at all
floral tinsel
How?
floral tinsel
The damage seems really low compared to the DC one, and the stacking debuff lasts for only 8 sec, so its even hard to stack it
lusty grotto
you're overthinking min-maxing with the additional ring
floral tinsel
I like min-maxxing
lusty grotto
if you're trying to get 1 DC and 5 BoM, it's not gonna happen
for example
the additional ring is just a bonus
floral tinsel
but anyway, great thanks guys.. I think I got the answer anyway... Don't farm expulsum for the engineer piece
lusty grotto
you shouldn't worry about these things right now because once again ilvl will be king
so it doesn't matter if the 2 traits aren't the best, as long as you have 1 DC and your highest ilvl equipped you will be fine
oblique garnet
I for one am happy i can finally stop wearing my 375 shoulders when new raid comes
sick sentinel
Honestly I wouldn't even worry about getting DC
main vault
The additional ring is just them giving up on the system
sick sentinel
I've stopped using DC since 8.1
lusty grotto
i havent
sick sentinel
Ive gotten more bang for my buck going double bloodsport and an IF(its what I have at 390 atm)
lusty grotto
your dmg is guaranteed to be lower than 2x BoM and 1 DC though
floral tinsel
it's still quite good... unless you dropped booming voice.. it is still a 20% dmg reduction and 15% extra damge fora long time
lusty grotto
i mean if you're only gearing defensively to push raids, i guess it works
sick sentinel
Im not a raider
floral tinsel
While DC is maybe not as mandetory as before it is still worth like 15 ilvl
oblique garnet
Even without dc our damage is not low
lusty grotto
the other tanks do it
oblique garnet
Dc mostly helps surviving larger packs
lusty grotto
but he said 2 BS 1 IF
15% dmg for an extra couple of seconds is huge for dmg
cmon
sick sentinel
At this point, the "loss" of damage is not too real
going from infinte damage uptime to 6 extra seconds, we already lost so much
When the raid opens up, triple bom/dc
thats the goodshit
lusty grotto
i disagree, but lets leave it at that
but sure, when the raid opens up we will have a shitload of options
oblique garnet
Idk about 3dc when raid comes tbh
sick sentinel
For M+, not raiding
floral tinsel
6 extra seconds is a hell of a lot of uptime
remember that you recast it very often as the CD is really low with AM talent
floral tinsel
pretty much on every pull in m+.. and in raids.. it's like 60% uptime
floral tinsel
Multiple DC seems quite busted in m+, but a bit afraid that you end up squishy this way.. BFI, IF and BoM give you a lot of damage reduction, while DC only do so with the first
lusty grotto
yeah we're aware
astral crystal
peepee
oblique garnet
3x BoM will be good for raids too if you also get 2x bfi and 1dc
I think it will also be the best m+ setup overall
Good damage both in aoe and st
astral crystal
6x bloodsport Kreygasm
sick sentinel
6x callious
thats the true dream
we get free revenge, might as well make it do something
astral crystal
lol
sick sentinel
So what does the Block stat do? It seems like the math is obscure as shit compared to the other stats.
It isn't chance based now, you always block. Blocking stat is just how much more damage you block
Thats the cheap and dirty
warm plinth
Blocking is still a chance if you don't have Shield Block up. Shield Block used to be 30% base damage reduction (or 60% crit block) modified by mastery. Now your amount blocked is based on the block value of your shield.
Sorry not based on mastery. Based on artifact traits is what I meant.
tight tree
Trinket from new world boss any good? (str stick with 1 min on use mastery)
Not having sims is confusing sometimes ;/
warm plinth
Depends on what you have I suppose, but on its own it'd be pretty solid for DPS, especially in AoE.
tight tree
My warrior is alt atm so i have only this trinket, 395 Disc from Zul, Blockades and Phantoms.
I macroed it to avatar π
oblique garnet
It is godlike
warm plinth
You're godlike
lavish oracle
@tight tree you mean the knot of ancient fury? Yeah, its solid
Also, its crit
Unless theres another one I don't know about
Do we know exactly how reaping is going to work yet? Are the ghosts copies of the mobs with severely reduced hp? Are they generic spirits? Will they be affected by fort? Etc
tight tree
Ah damn i got all confused. Meant Ritual Feather of Unng Ak^ from tortollans cache.
Got trinket from Ivus on monk same day that is why i mixed them up
lavish oracle
Oh, if it scales like the Knot, it'd be even better and the knot is strong
tight tree
it have mastery with 1 min un use, 370 tho, not 385 π
lavish oracle
I wanna say its better than disc but hard to say for sure π€
Its definitely better for survival
tight tree
Disc doing about 3-4% of my damage, hard to quantify feather. it is roughly 25% uptime of 340 mastery
Yeah for survival would prolly take this+blockades atm
Not really gunning for survival most of the time on warr, it is an alt in casual guild doing occasional heroic/m+.
lavish oracle
Its 340 mastery on use?
tight tree
So i ran feather+disc yesterday and was feeling pretty good, put my DPSers to shame on any aoe pack as well ;D
Yeah 343
tight tree
Yeah not happening this time ;/ Rolled coin on him, got boots π©
nova rover
Is quick navigation still the way to go for weapons?
tight tree
Yes.
lavish oracle
Yes, @nova rover
tight tree
Haste > everything
nova rover
Thanks guys, Im base 16% haste atm
tight tree
I have 50% haste in Uldir with Archives 5 stacks of IttF. Feels good β€
nova rover
Man have had no luck with archive drops
tight tree
And i am undergeared so top warriors must have way more probably
nova rover
I have laser matrix
tight tree
Its irrelevant, matrix or archives they both give reorigination
sick sentinel
I'm at 2x 385 archive 1x 360 dc
tight tree
jeebus Weep, do emissaries π I got tons of 375 DC pieces
like 5 or 6 sitting in bags
lavish oracle
I have a 390 #blessed
Is our deep wounds scaling the same as Arms (37.5% of attack power)?
oblique garnet
@tight tree run with the 395 disc and feather
warm plinth
I think it'd be funny if you could circumvent Reaping with a full night elf group. Like just have everyone shadowmeld when the spirits start coming π I don't quite know how it's expected to work though.
warm plinth
π
lavish oracle
I'm just excited to be able to more freely pull adds into bosses π
warm plinth
It could potentially create some interesting strategies if you get forces from the reaping adds
oblique garnet
No risk of mobs living forever
lavish oracle
Yeah, if reaping is just a bunch of generic physical attacking spirits, it'll be an absolute joke for warriors
warm plinth
Shhhh don't say that so loud
lavish oracle
If it's like...the actual mobs brought back to life with low health, that'll be kind of a nightmare for some areas
imagine like 9 lashers resapawning at once in UR
oblique garnet
You can affect what you will spawn
lavish oracle
Well okay, the most you could feasibly get is 8 at once
oblique garnet
Dependinh on what you kill
lavish oracle
I wonder if they'll aggro mobs as the run past
oblique garnet
Probably
lavish oracle
That'd be cruel
oblique garnet
Same
sick sentinel
i did the worst underrot run possible of all time
oblique garnet
Ninjapulled everything you tried to skip?
lavish oracle
That's pretty impressive, I was in a 9 that took almost 2 hours once
oblique garnet
Git gud
sick sentinel
well that's why i'm doing +5 underrot
lavish oracle
They're nice for practicing in a low-stakes environment, I run a lot of 7-9s at the beginning of the week as a way to warmup to the affixes
odd ledge
with how much infested affects the pulls it sounds like a major waste of time
nova rover
Ok question for the keys, Siege, the 1st boss does it just target rando range or is it farthest out?
warm plinth
- No one ever
oblique garnet
200x WR emissaries are the best
drowsy relic
jesus is it more or are soo many prot warriors pushing this week
everyday im losing like 3 ranks cause prots are finally pushing higher keys
oblique garnet
Theres so many alts from people who used to push alot with dks etc
drowsy relic
i think next week prot warriors will push harder than dks tho
oblique garnet
probably
If you take a look at the top 30 like 50% of them didnt do higher than 14s before 8.1
drowsy relic
and go to leaderboards for runs highest runs this week there are soo many prots, almost as much as brew and dk's
warm plinth
We did it boys. We're finally "viable" in the eyes of the community.
drowsy relic
oh rip
warm plinth
RIP
drowsy relic
jesus late u did a 19 fh in time??
nova rover
Teach me sempai!!!
drowsy relic
o wtf thats Herudra lol hes not some fuck hahaha
hes 1.9k io without doing a temple key yet jesus
and only a 11 sots
nova rover
Whats up?
oblique garnet
ive never heard of him
warm plinth
What is it for 10+?
warm plinth
That's a sexy looking graph, except that DK bar still towering above everyone else.
neon tangle
Who knows though
Starting to see prot creeping up the leaderboard
Maybe that will swing more towards prot as community perception changes
amber siren
community perception becomes less and less of a factor at 15+
you arent really pugging at those levels
neon tangle
Semi-disagree, people being willing to gear / try it, getting enough gear / r.io score to end up in those groups
It certainly will have an effect on the population size even at high levels
warm plinth
Community perception may not be a factor at those levels, but I would argue that the meta does have an effect. And as long as people are pushing to see what they can accomplish, they're not going to take a subpar tank, even if how subpar is up for debate. DK still has utility that we can't offer that currently could still be more desirable than what we bring to the table.
sick sentinel
I am pugging +15s and +16 just fine what do you mean
warm plinth
I'm not saying you can't PUG successfully. I'm talking about the majority of people doing the upper end of keys, not just 15s
The meta is still going to be easier, so why would you not use it
Not saying that's how I would think, but how people who are doing high teens and shit are likely to think.
neon tangle
I mean real talk being an unpopular βbadβ spec doesnβt magically get fixed because you play with the same people
This channel had a big pile of people getting benched when their guild hit a roadblock in 8.0
deft gull
Yeah, there was a lot of warrior tank benching during mythic content, however, no warrior should have been benched during heroic. I for one am levelling a DK because my team wants one for pushing high keys, but I don't think I'll ever give up the warrior, the style is just too much fun.
oblique garnet
So saturday morning pugs are worse than day before reset change my mind
neon tangle
Well thatβs when I normally pug
deft gull
Lol, respect brother. I can't bring myself to pug.
neon tangle
So yeah terrible players
oblique garnet
tried to get a better key out of 15 ml thinking yeah this is ezpz
frost mage losing to overall to wlock and me
then saying im "freeweek god" that i can only get io on good weeks
man died 23 times
deft gull
Haha, when you make a good DH cry because you're dropping mad AoE DPS, that's a good week.
warm plinth
Wait what? He said you could only get score on a good week? π
oblique garnet
yeah
The logic in that is mindboggling
Like yeah its true but thats how it works with r.io
warm plinth
Yeah everyone gets better score on easier weeks.
neon tangle
I mainly just run my 10 for the week
And Iβm on a high pop server
So all my scores are from hard week
Since the leaderboards didnβt fill up by the weekend lol
warm plinth
You need to teach Late how to get good scores on shitty weeks then.
So he can appease his PUGs
neon tangle
Ez just reroll BDK
warm plinth
That's what I'd do. Obvious choice.
oblique garnet
wait what is a shit week?
This is not a shit week
next week is not a shitweek
ohh the week after next is a shit week
FORTIFIED, SANGUINE, GRIEVOUS, INFESTED
chilly brook
Yes
drowsy relic
yeah
chilly brook
Don't need it for anything else if you're thrash tank
sick sentinel
thought so
drowsy relic
its purely physical damage
sick sentinel
I got that
sweet kettle
@chilly brook defuq is wrong with you
chilly brook
tbh good question
Wanna keep playing the game but decided I wanted to do it as a different role
sweet kettle
I left my shaman at 100 when Legion started still no intention to play it
chilly brook
I like resto's kit
chilly brook
I thought that was Guardian
xD
Actually let's be honest that's Blood with the occasional 3rd button
sweet kettle
Guardian too but who in there right mind will play guardian
chilly brook
Every now and again hit Marrow
sweet kettle
Most fun tanks for me prot warrior prot Pala and veng Dh
sweet kettle
The warmode thing?
It's a new thing with 8.1
The list represented faction gets a +20% increase
chilly brook
no wonder I'm leveling so fast lmao
sweet kettle
Cause blizzard doesn't favorite factions at all
Everywhere I go there are raid groups of alliance waiting to kill me
chilly brook
Let's be honest
chilly brook
They shoulda just named this expansion "The Alliance Found their Balls and the Horde Goes Insane"
sweet kettle
Yeah but most of those buttons are actually just dps buttons
sick sentinel
"the alliance are being dicks to casual players and blaming it on '''the horde'''" the expansion
chilly brook
Cuz for real this whole xpac has favored the alliance as far as story, armor designs etc is concerned
sweet kettle
I don't give a fk about those things
silk mortar
Isnt that a personal thing though?
sweet kettle
But when I go do a wq and I see 25 alliance camping it then there is no fun
chilly brook
tbh outside of the whole Bwonsamdi interaction the horde stuff has been piss poor
sick sentinel
wow haha world pvp amazing i love flying to a horde flight point and dying immediately
world pvp :))
chilly brook
Granted some of the war campaign stuff was cool
silk mortar
True
sweet kettle
The consept is cool but the rewards are shit
chilly brook
But the reasoning behind a lot of the horde's actions are poor to say the least
sweet kettle
Half of the time I don't even know why people still chase me
tight tree
Only ganking @opal fieldtollans should be rewarded
silk mortar
Not 30
tight tree
lmao
chilly brook
And let's be honest who doesn't want to be a THICC Kul Tiran
sick sentinel
it shouldn't be rewarded at all
sweet kettle
They just need to make warmode players being unable to make raid groups
tight tree
I dont want to be fat human in IRL or games, thankyou very much!
sick sentinel
30% wq bonus and xp shouldn't be
sweet kettle
Yep
chilly brook
The problem is that warmode encourages all of the worst elements of world pvp
tight tree
(want to be orc IRL too but cant happen sadly)
chilly brook
I'd smash an Orc female
chilly brook
No I don't
sick sentinel
u don't make a game and go
chilly brook
Cuz world pvp is gameplay lol
sick sentinel
"boom, this should be world pvp"
ok well i don't care
and i'm not going to explain my point xd
i was just banking on you getting what i meant
silk mortar
haha
sweet kettle
I mean a week ago I was doing turtles I finish the wq and then out of nowhere in the middle of the fcking dessert 2 rogues jump on me like wtf is this
tight tree
Dont want to get jumped, turn warmode off, simple π©
sweet kettle
I am beginning to believe alliance is just casuals trying to be something cause they suck at everything else
They couldn't kill me
tight tree
You kill, you get killed, i like it in my WoW
sweet kettle
They had like 100k hp each
tight tree
SOmetimes they have raid sometimes you have raid
sweet kettle
And yet they still get more out of warmode
warm plinth
Tbh I doubt most alliance are using War Mode because of world PvP. They're using it because they want bonus XP/rewards. The 30% and weekly quest was nothing but Blizz trying to force something that came naturally back in the day.
The game just isn't that way anymore (for the most part). So naturally there are side effects of War Mode that somehow they didn't see coming, but were completely obvious to those of us who have been around a while.
sick sentinel
i don't like the reward bonuses rly
how it is
approx every 3 wq, you've basically done 4, if you have the 30% wq buff
which is stupid good
especially for AP
silk mortar
Yeah
oblique garnet
it depends entirely on the faction imbalance in your shard
sick sentinel
and I don't get access to it
and the entire argument is
"well the horde did it to us!!"
warm plinth
Well tbh the 30% isn't worth it once you're 120. It's easily worth it when leveling alts though.
silk mortar
While that be true most likely there is horde everywhere i go
oblique garnet
pretty sure you can get the 30% as horde aswell
sick sentinel
and it's like, I wasn't camping anyone you dickbag, I'm just trying to get my AP
nah
it changes weekly
warm plinth
You're only getting extra gold or resources, which isn't even close to worth it.
sick sentinel
it's not dynamic
the 30% is worth it when you're farming AP
it's very much worth it
warm plinth
But who is farming AP right now? Bleeding edge guilds?
sick sentinel
..yeah?
chilly brook
meh fuck AP grinds lol
warm plinth
So you're catering to the .1%? That makes zero sense.
sick sentinel
i'm not even top1k and I'm farming
what is your argument ???
literally what are you arguing for ?
silk mortar
What HoA lvls are you?
solemn kelp
37 here
chilly brook
Preach doesn't even have a problem with it lol
warm plinth
I'm saying that it isn't worth having war mode on when you're at 120 unless you're someone that wants to farm for the sake of farming, or you're in a guild that's doing hardcore prep for next tier.
chilly brook
And he has an actual requirement to hit
warm plinth
But I'm not arguing it. You can have your own opinion on the subject.
sick sentinel
everyone has a requirement lol
solemn kelp
I just like to see numbers grow
warm plinth
That's how opinions work
sick sentinel
top-ish guilds now are req-ing 38
chilly brook
Preach is a content creator that does fairly high end progression
chilly brook
And yea his req is 37
chilly brook
Yet we should all care about yours?
sick sentinel
I didn't say that but nice strawman
warm plinth
So my point in this whole thing is that if you're leveling on alliance (or you're one of those people who wants to farm AP for some reason), then it's almost mandatory to do War Mode because 30% is fucking huge.
It's Blizzard forcing world PvP but it's not really the world PvP that players want
chilly brook
It wasn't a strawman
warm plinth
It's Alliance forming up huge raids to do a weekly that gives them awesome gear, or keeping it on because they get 30% more xp. And then Blizz goes even further to force classic world PvP by making it so you can't complete that quest in a raid.
sick sentinel
I think the rewards are stupid and should be removed
warm plinth
But alliance doesn't want to do it because they're vastly outnumbered
chilly brook
Someone's fame has no relevance on their points
warm plinth
I 100% agree with you
warm plinth
World PvP was always a minority, even when it was relatively common
It's just frustrating how out of touch Blizzard is.
chilly brook
War mode is the least of Blizzards issues
sick sentinel
It's not the least of mine
warm plinth
Well yeah. I'm not saying it's the most important thing in the world.
chilly brook
There are far more glaring issues than war mode and the rewards associated with it
warm plinth
But it's the most recent problem that was literally created by them on purpose.
So naturally it comes up in conversation
chilly brook
War mode accomplished what it was supposed to
The problem is that it brings the worst of world pvp
Or rather that it encourages it but that's not necessarily a problem that can be traced directly to war mode
People are just dicks
warm plinth
War Mode being incentivized is the problem, not War Mode itself
sick sentinel
War mode AT ALL is incentivized
chilly brook
Incentives were hardly needed to have gank squads
chilly brook
Or to be camped
warm plinth
It was a great idea at its inception. If people want to do world PvP, crank that bitch on and do some world PvP. If you don't, don't do it.
chilly brook
People did it all the time before war mode
sick sentinel
Incentives were 99% of the reason most people turned on war mode
Yeah, when you chose to join a PvP server
warm plinth
weep is reading my mind atm.
chilly brook
Yea guess who also chose to turn on war mode
solemn kelp
"Incentives were 99% of the reason most people turned on war mode" <---
sick sentinel
Everyone who wanted 10% xp and gold and ap
warm plinth
War Mode was a more elegant solution than PvP/PvE servers because it took away the problem of "well, I want to play with my friends so I was forced on a PvP server even though I hate world PvP"
It's a game that has goals. Most people would naturally turn on any possible incentives that would get them to those goals quicker/easier.
warm plinth
If everyone else is getting that bonus and you're not, you're going to feel left out and you're gonna turn that son of a bitch on.
sick sentinel
And alliance didn't camp our flight points
chilly brook
I didn't give a damn about the 10% extra when I was 120
sick sentinel
Then why are you arguing
warm plinth
That's a purely subjective opinion, not the consensus.
chilly brook
After being inconvenienced enough times it was so ez to turn it off
sick sentinel
You literally don't even play anymore
chilly brook
I was just playing.....
sick sentinel
Of course it's not going to matter to you
????
Glad you decided to return after 3 days
chilly brook
hey look at what I'm playing
warm plinth
We're talking about the average WoW player, not you personally.
chilly brook
I took a break for a few weeks lol
sick sentinel
You said you uninstalled less than a week ago
So my bad
War mode rewards suck
War mode doesn't suck
Ez clap
warm plinth
Keep War Mode, remove the rewards, let it accomplish its goal without forcing people to do it.
tight tree
Yep, id play it even without any bonus whatsoever
sick sentinel
Or at least I think it was pve
warm plinth
I would too, sometimes. But those days I just want to do my shit, I'd leave it off.
sick sentinel
99% horde means it's pve either way tbh
warm plinth
It really does lol.
chilly brook
Tbh I think there should be some sort of reward for war mode
sick sentinel
I don't
tight tree
Buut i'd argue if you too pussy to PvP you dont deserve bonuses π π©
sick sentinel
There was never a reward for world pvp
chilly brook
However......
sick sentinel
Just honor
chilly brook
It should be more PvP based
But hey that'd probably require something like PvP vendors again
sick sentinel
@tight tree keep going on your sick 10% Ap grind for arenas ;p
tight tree
If only it would not LAG so bad really, that is real problem
warm plinth
I even like the idea of the assassins. That's a neat bonus to kill that one jackass wrecking your faction without making it so desirable that you feel like you have to do it.
sick sentinel
Actual gear rewards from world pvp also a big yikes
tight tree
Nah i dont care about AP at all, and about bonuses too. But my strong opinin, if you dont want to get PvPed in the world, you should not be in warmode.
sick sentinel
World pvp is a minigame
World pvp used to be what you did after you were super decked out
Not to get there
warm plinth
It's super weird that they'd even try to force world PvP tbh.
tight tree
It is not. It creates a factor of unpredictability, element of surprise that we need so much in any RPG, especially MMO.
warm plinth
Like what exactly was the point
chilly brook
You wanna know what's unfair?
sick sentinel
The big bad "horde"?
chilly brook
nah
sick sentinel
Hard agree
tight tree
Some of my best memories about wow is clutch random PvP encounters in the world, while leveling, etc
sick sentinel
Fair nerf
But too unfair
@tight tree my best memories are clearing mythic raid bosses
warm plinth
But forced world PvP (even if it's only forced on one side) is not natural and isn't fun for half the people involved.
sick sentinel
They're both valid ways to enjoy the game
chilly brook
On the topic of war mode
warm plinth
You might choose world PvP regardless of incentives
chilly brook
I'd like to see legitimate character scaling
tight tree
Ofc, and that is why warmode is an OPTION
sick sentinel
I would not pvp if there weren't incentives
warm plinth
But right now, I turn on war mode on my alliance toons because why the fuck would I level without 30% extra XP?
Not because I want to fight people
sick sentinel
It is an option with a 10% reward attached to it
tight tree
You are not obligated to turn it on,
chilly brook
It actually sucks to be leveling and have nothing you can realistically do against someone
sick sentinel
AP is literally a competitive grind
tight tree
"it have reward" is not a valid argument
sick sentinel
It is literally competitive 100%
sick sentinel
We have goals and we need to reach them, 10% is super useful
tight tree
Ofc, and you get ganked in the process of reaching them
sick sentinel
To think that turning that off is actually an option for anyone trying to be competitive
Is a big yikes
tight tree
You want to have cake and eat it too π
sick sentinel
No
warm plinth
No, that's not at all what we want.
sick sentinel
I want my fucking pve server back
warm plinth
We literally just said we'd prefer War Mode have no incentives
chilly brook
I would actually not be surprised if several people that are competitive do actually turn it off
sick sentinel
Without feeling like I'm being punished for not liking world pvp
tight tree
But i agree that warmode reward should be something that is only valuable to pvP players instead really
tight tree
You not getting punishe. Just because there is a way to get bonus, does not mean you abslutely have to use it
chilly brook
The thing is WM doesn't apply to things like IE's and they're the most "efficient" for AP farming
warm plinth
Okay let me put this another way. You can ride a 100% ground mount, or a 280% flying mount. Some people hate that flying exists, but they still use a flying mount. Because you're not going to handicap yourself on purpose. While 10% rewards is obviously a smaller difference, the same principle applies
tight tree
But if you get ganked often, you lose more time, time you could spend doing 1 more WQ
sick sentinel
IE are absolutely the worst pve content in the game
tight tree
So it balances out
chilly brook
So I really wouldn't be surprised if people turn it off that are trying to be competitive
chilly brook
You knew what I meant
warm plinth
Like I don't even understand why you'd have anything against removing the incentives if you guys have the opinion you claim to have about it.
It's kind of a contradictory view point
tight tree
We obviously have different mindset here. With any moderate PvP happening around, any WM bonus cancelled by time lost PvPing and graveyard running.
chilly brook
I mean you're arguing against that incentive under the pretense that you need it to be competitive but it has no bearing on the actual content that the people who are trying to be "competitive" are doing so in means that have no increase from WM
warm plinth
I disagree, as someone who has leveled 7 120s with war mode on, ganking is not that large of a problem for me personally. There definitely isn't enough time loss to justify turning it off by a long shot. Even moreso now that I get 30% instead of 10
Unless you get that one rare jackass that camps you, it's worth it to keep it on
chilly brook
and tbh this whole argument is exactly what @tight tree said
it's basically you want your cake and you want to eat it too
tight tree
It is a rule in the game, either it is worth it for you or dont
warm plinth
But that's what you guys are wanting...we don't want the cake. But you guys are insisting it's fine as it is because you like World PvP. But you'd like World PvP either way right? That's what you've been saying.
tight tree
But complaining about being killed while accepting to get killed for AP, is strange π
chilly brook
If you don't want the cake then don't use warmode
warm plinth
Literally no one in this discussion has complained about being killed at all.
chilly brook
and then complain about it's benefits because it's "required"
warm plinth
No one. Not one person.
tight tree
As i said good decision would be make bonus only worthy for PvPers
System is badly designed i agree
warm plinth
I'd be on board for that too, because it wouldn't affect me. PvPers who don't like world PvP would disagree, but that's a whole other thing.
chilly brook
It would also mean that PvP stuff would actually have to be PvP stuff again top kek
good luck with getting blizz to do that
tight tree
Argument was "i do not enjoy world pvp" to be precise. If we speak of enjoyment here, going to decide what you enjoy less, world PvP or wee bit less AP. π€· Either way you will have to choose one or the other, cant have both.
solemn kelp
Arguing for argument's sake
tight tree
It is not even an argument, that is how they designed that (bad) system
sweet kettle
Doing actual pvp while having warmode on and wq are up is a huge waste of actuall productive time
In world pvp 1v1 rarely happen
tight tree
Doing WQ when you can kill alliance, that is waste of actual fun time π
sweet kettle
And then you realize by killing alliance you don't gain anything
tight tree
Who cares? It is 100x more fun for me. Game is not a job, i have fun here.
I gain enjoyment
Differens strokes for different folks, that is π
sweet kettle
True that's why you see more people doing open world pvp with shit gear
tight tree
Well gear scaling is busted tbh (like many other things)
Cant kill leveling people with legendaries on 120 atm
sweet kettle
Sure you can you just need gear
But people instead of doing the content and developing there characters do world pvp and then complain
tight tree
π€· Your way to play game is not the only way. And getting gear is joke now, so why not have some fun in the process?
sweet kettle
The only problem I have with world pvp right now are healers
Legit unkillable if you 1v1 them
tight tree
We just find fun i different things
yeah well i agree π
but rarely ppl questing on healers, unless its disc
sweet kettle
I don't know the enjoyment of world pvp isn't that rewarding
Sure I will go and kill a guy and then 10 other will pop up and camp me
And I have to run away
Or if they kill you like 3 times in a row you have to W8 like a 2 min respawn timer
Huge waste of time for an almost 0 reward
I do love huge world pvp battles but if there is an inbalance in numbers the fight gets lopsided very very fast
sick sentinel
I just do AP world quests and I see a guy and just kill him
and then I continue with my business
I got assassin multiple times doing that
sweet kettle
The only people I don't understand are the people who actively chase me
I was fury double jump a mountain and the hunter was trying to catch up to me
Even though he couldn't
sick sentinel
I do that :C
but I am the guy with the double leap and the eng belt and the gliders
sweet kettle
Same
I just love to troll chasers
He jumped down the mountain to catch me and I just climbed the mountain
sick sentinel
lol
chilly brook
I wish Thunderclap had the Crash Lightning animation
sick sentinel
3 lightnings are way too few
sweet kettle
I just want a big one in the middle
silk mortar
A thunderstorm should occur when we stomp the ground
sweet kettle
That splashes into small ones when it hits the ground
sick sentinel
if I don't go blind every 2 seconds during avatar then it's not enough
chilly brook
ngl
sweet kettle
True
chilly brook
They should just buff all leveling by 30% because it feels way better
sweet kettle
If you don't blink like Christmas lights then what is the point of even playing the spec
sweet kettle
We need more thunder and we can rename prot warrior to thor warrior
solemn kelp
Because when we die, we're a bit thor?
sweet kettle
Everytime we die we get flash backs of our dad
And we say to him the enemy is too powerful without a good shield I can defeat it and then dad will say
Are you thor the warrior of shields
And then we charge up and go full ham on the enemy pulling 60k dps and being unkillable gods
solemn kelp
or that
sweet kettle
Cause prot warrior > rest of the tanks
sweet kettle
Feels badman
Looks like you threw 4$
But who am I to critisize I spend 30 euros on fcking destiny 2
sweet kettle
I liked the facials emotions kappa
chilly brook
But with all the issues I just decided I'd pick it up when it was discounted heavily
My face is tired
xD
sweet kettle
Legit this game had one of the worst facial animation I have seen in like a decade
tight tree
Oh man, after ME2 i doubt i can like andromeda. 3 was so-so, but everyone says story is shite
Animations aside
sweet kettle
Yeah I stopped at 2
tight tree
I completed ME3 twice, and ME2... dunno, 5-6 times probably
Fav sci-fi game ever
Anything star wars not even close to ME for me π
sweet kettle
My favorite space thingy game was one that was like minecraft but you could build a spaceship and mine entire planets
chilly brook
Tbh I feel bad for the team behind Andromeda
chilly brook
They got a pretty raw deal in the end
tight tree
Bioware fucked them up for sure. Small studio branch, not much experience, even less time.
All this SJW shite they tried to push did not help as well
tight tree
Yeah there is great video on YT by Raycevik about that
chilly brook
Honestly EA should have never pushed Frostbite on them
would have fixed a lot of problems imo
tight tree
Way too much about games decided by publishers, it hurts the product in the end. Case in point = WoW π
Healthy balance between them, thats what we need
chilly brook
At least it wasn't Bethesda lmao
tight tree
haha well i never liked any bethesda fallout games anyway, so serves them right
i will be happy if they sink and sell fallout to someone decent
chilly brook
I wouldn't be π¦
tight tree
their greed replaced their brains
chilly brook
I like the Elder Scrolls franchise too much
I'd much prefer they just pull their heads out of their asses
tight tree
Hmm i loved Morrowing. Tried Skyrim but somehow i get bored after 10 minutes
tight tree
I guess i prefer story-driven games, not sandboxes. Morrowind was sandbox too but i got attracted to it because it felt so alien and unlike any fantasy i read/played before
and it did not hold my hand in any way
But bethesda ruibed fallout, still salty about it. F3 had same shitty "bored after 10 minutes" feeling as skyrim
ruined*
chilly brook
Tbh I don't think Bethesda has any pride as a developer
The problem is they're the only studio that makes games like the ones they do
So while something like Skyrim isn't particularly a great game as a sum of its parts it doesn't have anything else it's competing with
tight tree
Yep, they relaxed way too much. Comparable stuff is games like RDR or Farcry. Big maps with quest points
For bethesda it is just formula to print money, they put least effort. Just like call of duty games.
chilly brook
I'd kill for a Star Wars game in the vein of a Bethesda RPG
tight tree
TBH, all this drama around big publishers lately brough me way more enjoyment than any game ever could π
chilly brook
I'd also love a Star Trek RPG
tight tree
I feel that Star Trek is way to intelligent (?) intellectual for mass market. At least in books that i read. Not really action packed
chilly brook
Star Trek is very much more philosophical than action packed, but that's what would make it an amazing candidate for an RPG
I'd highly recommend watching the different series
tight tree
Indeed, my point is it will not appeal to masses that much, so not profitable for AAA publishers
Games becoming less and less intellectual, more and more dumbed down
chilly brook
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
My favorite game of the year wasn't even a AAA game
Kingdom Come Deliverance
chilly brook
yea
tight tree
Yep indie market is where you can encounter unusual gems. Unless it is pixel art metroidvanias π©
chilly brook
Tbh if you enjoyed Witcher 3 you'll probably really enjoy KCD
tight tree
My fav games of last years was Witcher 3 and Nier:Automata.
chilly brook
The writing is superb
torpid flame
how is ancient tuskarr sea charm for tanking?
mental scarab
To random i think with vers
wide girder
pc gaming is dying, ty fortnite, pubg and other mobile shit
torpid flame
got it 385 wit 79 avoidance, how big a deal is that?
torpid flame
the avoidance i mean
sick sentinel
79 avoidance should be like 2%
silk mortar
Yeah and i dont think avoidance is as good as in legion
Could also be i dont know what spells would be triggered by it ^^
nova gale
I am so triggered by blizzard taking away the ability to delete your keys and get a new one
Been trying to up my score abit but keep getting fucking 18 siege everytime I time a 17..
silk mortar
You'll get over it eventually
nova gale
then go in and deplete a siege, CONGRATS, here is a 17 shrine. Have fun
nova gale
Only one 18 in time this week tho
oblique garnet
Siege shouldnt be too bad
nova gale
TBH
We played it really well
and missed with 4 minutes I think
Took a bit too long on last boss
primal crypt
@nova gale you got a 17 shrine too??
nova gale
It's only one siege 18 in time this week too so I think it's definately one of the harder this week
oblique garnet
19 shrine 8)
primal crypt
Because that's what I have now :(
oblique garnet
I just want to kms
primal crypt
Scuffed and haven't even tried it lul
primal crypt
Lmao
nova gale
I have waycrest 17 after depleting my 18 siege. and we got shrine 17 from depleting another 18 siege
nova gale
I am just prepping for next week imo
oblique garnet
Waycrest is easy
nova gale
If you do a high siege in time. VOD it and send me the clip
primal crypt
No one needs the WM
primal crypt
It was a 12
nova gale
ya I mean my 17
oblique garnet
Do the 17wm get 18 tol +2 it which is ezaf