since mastery gets better the higher you push it
#protection
uneven mason
by final tier unless they change us, we're going to be looking at mastery as our priority
old zephyr
@uneven mason
Warriors are top tier for next raid
Do you have any numbers backing that o is this just feelycraft ?
uneven mason
Playtesting thus far we're extremely strong against all major boss mechanics
we can either block or reflect like, fucking everything
our EHP is up a considerrable amount
and our haste values combined with the shift in SB CD and GCD/IP make us far less punishing
we've gained quite a bit of passive armor/health
since 8.0
Vanguard has been tweeked what, 3x?
We were not "Weak" to begin with
we were very unforgiving, but a good prot could hold its own heh
I don't think there is any fight in the new raid that really leans toward having a specific tank classes utility either
We'll see though, as I said during beta "its not final until the week after raid release"
keen spire
There is something about prot warriors potentially being the "best" tank option that genuinely deters me from wanting to main them during this tier
modern brook
brm def top for next raid
uneven mason
yeah nothing has changed for BRM
keen spire
I thought they got nerfed
uneven mason
no lol
keen spire
where did they get buffed?
modern brook
they made it so ISB reduces more but stagger reduces less w/o it
some other stuff i didnt read
uneven mason
^^
uneven mason
100% uptime on ISB is literally a buff 😄
modern brook
ie: if you're at your keyboard you're fine
keen spire
that's so random
modern brook
no more pull->walk dog rotaiton though
odd ledge
100% uptime on ISB is literally a buff
it really isn't
odd ledge
it's a net nerf
modern brook
i dont play brm
minor fox
I just saw someone as arms with this trinket and it made me wonder if this would be a good tanking trinket? It's really expensive since you need to craft 2 other trinkets in order to get the recipe for this one (I think it's about 50 expulsom or so in total)
uneven mason
Yes
odd ledge
up to ~20% more upfront damage (which doesn't matter for brm)
uneven mason
its an extremely strong trinket
odd ledge
warrior might be better than monk on some bosses
uneven mason
use the Alchemist trinket
minor fox
Instead of blockades?
uneven mason
yes
keen spire
Mac
minor fox
Alright, thank you
uneven mason
385 is where the blockades gets surpassed
keen spire
What do you think of Guardians for next tier? I've been considering that as a legit option
modern brook
you shouldnt need blockades at this point in the expansion
undone vale
i wonder if that alchemist trinket is worth swapping out 370 arms trinkets for actual dps heh
uneven mason
I mean, they're stronger
modern brook
unless you're a recent 120
undone vale
fair
oblique garnet
no thats the one that upgrades into 400 -> 415
daring marlin
This game is whack
oblique garnet
the other one you discover by making 355->370->385
daring marlin
Shouldn’t be two seperate ones but whatever lol
uneven mason
yeah well
blacksmithing is pretty boned too lol
I've got 70 expulsom
toward my belt and legs
need 120
gonna farm hard
once I get all the mats gonna drop mining
and pickup Alchemy
Minmaxing
daring marlin
Which one do I make then?
uneven mason
omnom
daring marlin
the sanguinated one?
uneven mason
yeah
but yeah there is a 385 belt/legs that uses sanguin
and then a 385 (that needs to be made for the new recipies) that uses tidalcor and breath
which is enraging
uneven mason
mmhmm
oblique garnet
you cant make the sanguinated one afaik
oblique garnet
it needs tidal core ?
daring marlin
getthefuckingmatsyet
uneven mason
nono sanguinated one uses the shit form Uldir
but the Alchemy trinket is so strong lol
I can't resist
daring marlin
I'm making it now
daring marlin
uneven mason
to pump my ass with supplies
oblique garnet
yeah
daring marlin
expulsom
oblique garnet
thats good fix
daring marlin
FOR THE ULDIR 385S
uneven mason
expulsom
oblique garnet
i can craft the 385 gear instantly and just try to get mats for the new ones
uneven mason
prob not
you probably wont' get htet tidal and breath from scrapping
any old recipies
also really excited - I can craft 340 plate for my gimpadin when he hits 120
oblique garnet
no but running 20m+ wont take long
old zephyr
Should I farm it to replace mythrax /rezan's ?
daring marlin
It has a good uptime.
they always have had good uptime
epic
HOLY SHIT
scrapped old pants I made
pre 8.1
oblique garnet
yup
old zephyr
Will the stone compete with raid trinkets ?
old zephyr
Jes and rezan Will still compete with these I suppose though
oblique garnet
Temples little shits dont give necrotic anymore?
uneven mason
Going through the loot
It looks like only R.A.G.E is competitive
the rest are varying levels of "meh"
especially that Bwonsombe trinket
basically the same level as the eye offa Mythrax
old zephyr
Mythrax seems better than bwon
uneven mason
ilvl will leave it behind
old zephyr
Yeah obviously
minor fox
Wait, did I spark a discussion about alchemist trinket?
I feel honored
anyway, I came back to ask if that extra potion healing also applies to warlock healthstones
it's somewhat of a newbie question but I've never been sure about it
steady dragon
heya, coming in from bdk, roughly what should my hps be on something like fetid
i could look at logs but most of those seem inflated by going a bunch of ravages
modern brook
im not sure its a relevant metric
daring marlin
It’s not
primal crypt
yeah @steady dragon , hps doesn't matter
shield block up times
that's the thing you want
and spell reflect on specific bosses
old zephyr
You could calculate how much IP cast you should have with your haste, without missing SB, but I'm not sure that's relevant
old zephyr
Then you areprobably doing something wrong
steady dragon
yeah, new class new shitty me 😅
graceful sundial
opinions about Apothecary's concoctions? is it worth?
old zephyr
Have you read the guide @steady dragon ?
sick sentinel
is there such a thing as too much haste
steady dragon
just dont have an hps amount to aim for, warrior hps isn't tied to DTPS is it
daring marlin
no
modern brook
are you pressing avatar
daring marlin
modern brook
I'm just saying
daring marlin
is that...
modern brook
lol
steady dragon
so i guess taloc isn't valid cuz i was doing the knockback adds
daring marlin
wow...analyzer...!?
steady dragon
the hell do you nerds use then
modern brook
its how u deal damage
steady dragon
bdk wow analyser is beautiful
modern brook
Prot doesnt even have sims
steady dragon
jeez
steady dragon
what
oblique garnet
Demoshout uptime sb uptime make sure sb doesnt overlap with last stand smooth damage with ip
modern brook
Demoshout uptime sb uptime make sure sb doesnt overlap with last stand + use avatar on CD
if you're doing those and still dying thats when you wanna start digging for issues with DTPS/EHRPS etc
oblique garnet
Healing or dmg?
modern brook
oh yeah heal parses exist
old zephyr
Remove revenge from you bars then try to push dps without capping rage
oblique garnet
What no
steady dragon
the guide is vague too, how does archive compare to the class specific traits
like where does it rank
specfics:
archive vs brace for impact
oblique garnet
Double archive 1 dc is maybe best for raids
Or 1 archive 1 dc and bfi
If youre trying to do damage
modern brook
welcome to feelcity man
modern brook
Main stat is really good for survivability and damage
=> mainstat ranks high => archive is good
Is it better than BFI? not if you get a bunch of ss
but its solid in all scenarios if not that best in given ones
steady dragon
last question before i'll leave you guys be
am i right in thinking that shield is the most important item slot for overall tanking
uneven mason
looking at the new raids azerite
3x moment of glory
omnomnom
yeah, its the little things
Also first boss dropping a shield and the BiS chest
+++
nm good chest is on uh
5th boss?
poo
damn my eyes
old zephyr
wait What chest is that?
uneven mason
Sea Swell
daring marlin
raid asserite is lit
uneven mason
yeah
daring marlin
over op?
uneven mason
mmmmmm derp
daring marlin
u r an insane person
uneven mason
why did I think that ws elements
daring marlin
LOL
uneven mason
you can also get 3x the Intimidating presence dream from the new raid
uneven mason
it'd be perma BiS
long after it stopped being BiS
but still for a tank
it works on rejuv and healing pots
so
👍
uneven mason
o
that seals the deal
F U C K
gonna go work on Alchemy now
wonder if my wife will farm herbs for me while I'm at work
oblique garnet
@steady dragon yes shield is the most important
steady dragon
good to know 😃
uneven mason
dude stole my shield
True story, Ele shaman got a shield offa our Vectis kill lastnight, I'm all sporting a HGhuun shield still
frigid root
What addons do you guys recommend for a new prot warrior
uneven mason
Marok's block tracker
it lets you know how long SB (and Bolster) are up for
so yo udon't overlap
which is like, A#1 mistake made by prot warriors
dreamy owl
Need a WA that Yells at you to thunderclap when are in avatar
uneven mason
erm
if you're having a hard time pressing TC every other GCD
I don't think a WA is going to fix that level of ADHD
a WA that flashes when you're above 80 rage is a good one to have
since its fairly easy to accidently overcap on rage at times during avatar
keen spire
Avatar has such a simple flow to it though
like
TC - SS - TC - probably SS - TC - Revenge proc? - TC - SS - TC - whisper your raid leader - TC - Post memes on reddit - TC
also it should be impossible to rage cap now imo
with IP off GCD
uneven mason
right
but like, If I'm not tanking
and just using Avatar for DPS (because I don't need to sit on it during DS anymore)
I'm not really spending into IP
until just before I taunt back
languid sigil
Does anyone know if resounding protection gets affected by necrotic? 🤔
ancient reef
what are yalls opinion on the most fun and engaging pure dps specs right now vs tank hybrids
uneven mason
Uh
ancient reef
might level something over xmas break and all igot right now is 5x tanks
ancient reef
yeah somethings that not a tank offspec
lusty grotto
i guess priest and shamans fall into that
uneven mason
I would put every one of them between, licking a cactus, and smoking dogshit for fun
lusty grotto
no idea though
uneven mason
I mean, Warlocks have the most variation
lusty grotto
@languid sigil honestly, no idea on that, i would say no but honestly i'd rather test it out
uneven mason
"Casting slow hurty, casty fast hurt, throwing fire chihauhaus"
astral crystal
@frigid root yeah marok's trackers are great
uneven mason
mages are 3 variations of "Press big button"
astral crystal
and khakan's WAs
uneven mason
Rogues are basically fury warriors but squishy
lusty grotto
i like my frost mage
uneven mason
if you know, one of their specs wasn't a melee now and triggering me
lusty grotto
but dunno if i'd recommend it lol
ancient reef
last time i playe a hunter you had to melee if they where to close
kiting for days
funny how they tank things away that make the class like, was it to hard to what was it wingclip/scatter shot and run away or whatever
uneven mason
"Hey guys, we keep designing content that punishes raids that have a lot of melee, we've added 5 melee specs to the game so far since launch, know what we should do, TAKE AWAY A RANGED SPEC, so lets give a class WELL KNOWN for being massively populated by flipperhanded cross eye'd seamonkeys and give them a melee spec"
lusty grotto
yep
uneven mason
+++ Blizzard logic
lusty grotto
but hey hunters were asking for it, fuck the rest of the people lol
dusk locust
can confirm, don't recruit melee
uneven mason
not because THERE is a lack of desire to play melee specs
ocean acorn
what dungeon key level does the average prot warrior run?
uneven mason
uh
lusty grotto
any?
uneven mason
define your range of average?
lusty grotto
oh the average
ancient reef
i did a tol dagar last night and the melee kept killing me on last boss
uneven mason
I mean
ancient reef
they wouldnt run outta the damn circles
uneven mason
you have the average wow player who plays prot
uneven mason
who isn't running M+ keys at all
ocean acorn
of ppl who do m+ keys
uneven mason
then you have the "weekend warriors" who are warrior alts
lusty grotto
there's really no way to say for certain unless if we get that Blizz data
uneven mason
who run like +4s
ocean acorn
i feel like warrior is really good now esp for fort weeks
uneven mason
the folks who know what they're doing
and play prot
in m+
average key level is 10
ocean acorn
i have been playing prot
ancient reef
i rem vanilla and needing all kinds of cc or you died
you could not just aoe shit to death
uneven mason
I have a secret to tell you Shpicey
daring marlin
ur a prot
uneven mason
prot has been good all Xpac
snow crow
Does anyone else hate having Devastate as an ability
uneven mason
its the players who have been bad
queen owl
devastate = shield slam fishing
uneven mason
I hate devastate less than I hate devastator
lusty grotto
yes i do hate having devastate, and i ranted about it during legion before devastator became the go-to talent
ocean acorn
i have been pushing and had trouble in specific keys with magic dmg
uneven mason
change your tactics then
ancient reef
at least its not sunder armor
ocean acorn
when i was trying to tank 16s earliers
uneven mason
Prot has issues with magic, but not more so than other tanks
lusty grotto
but it doesn't bother me this expansion since we use it so little
ocean acorn
this xpac
uneven mason
outside of BDK Meme Skillstorm
ocean acorn
seemed super hard
ocean acorn
ya at that point i had our monk tank
uneven mason
10 is considered the highest that they tune for
ocean acorn
cuz it was just easier for the healer
lusty grotto
i mean monks aren't getting hit for less magic dmg
🤷
stagger only blocks 30% magic
uneven mason
Monks are going to take more damae than a prot war, all things considered 🤷 utility shifts though
ocean acorn
i feel like mgc dmg shreds through IP
uneven mason
it does
ocean acorn
if i dont have a CD
lusty grotto
are you using demo shout?
ocean acorn
i melt
uneven mason
so have a CD?
ocean acorn
ya
uneven mason
😄
ancient reef
IP should scale with mastery, or does it now? not sure but if not it should
lusty grotto
because that's pretty much the only one
uneven mason
yes IP scales with the AP portion of mastery
ocean acorn
the masterminds in ML
lusty grotto
SPELL REFLECT
ocean acorn
on fort do like all magic
lusty grotto
lash? SPELL REFLECT
ocean acorn
i use spell reflect alot
lusty grotto
are you using it to reflect lash?
ocean acorn
but now im not really having issues now
lusty grotto
using spell reflect a lot doens't mean you're using it correctly
uneven mason
that too
lusty grotto
its not fort week
ocean acorn
i have way more health now
ocean acorn
i was tanking last week too
ocean acorn
i thinkim 385 in prot now?
lusty grotto
since launch of what?
ancient reef
should give rogues a dw pistol spec
lusty grotto
vanilla or bfa?
tropic star
i was like an hour up in the convo
lusty grotto
ok are we talking relevant specs?
uneven mason
back in WOTLK all 3 DK specs were melee DPS (or tank)
lusty grotto
(ie not counting ferals?)
uneven mason
so I still for some reason count them as 3
lusty grotto
ok im lost
tropic star
was just reading comment about melee already being not wanted then bliz adds 5 melee specs thneswap a ranged spec to melee (hutner)
uneven mason
I was being snarky about how they keep piling up the melee
ancient reef
no new ranged at all right since launch
uneven mason
as if there is a serious lack of people playing meelee in progression raiding (There is, but not because we lack options)
tropic star
was trying to count 5 new melee specs
uneven mason
But yeah WOTLK UH,FR, BD were all melee DPS
tropic star
unless you are counting holy pally and fistweavers as .5
uneven mason
so I still had it in my head (I'm old) that they were 3
ancient reef
and hunters lost one
lusty grotto
they still are melee dps
ancient reef
so we got less now
uneven mason
I guess now 4 + 1 more (surv)
sand egret
-_____-
lusty grotto
that's why asked
uneven mason
DK has 2 (UH FR) DH has 1, monk has 1 and now survival
5 new melee specs since launch
lusty grotto
are we talking about relevant specs, because feral in vanilla was lul
lusty grotto
oh wait feral was in vanilla so it technically it wasn't added
daring marlin
man I’m missing out on a fun convo
uneven mason
Guardian was the added spec
ancient reef
feral in vanilla was so poorly designed
lusty grotto
yes you're right Mac
daring marlin
it’s kinda why I’m rolling warlock now
ancient reef
hurricane 31 point talent
daring marlin
too many retard melee
lusty grotto
reason why i leveled my mage
daring marlin
My mage buddy wanted to roll feral druid too
now he wants to play survival hunter
good thing I went warlock
just what we needed in raid
another fucking melee
uneven mason
we're working on Fetid now
and I'm about had it with folks who refuse to go ranged
like we have a DH
daring marlin
bruh
uneven mason
who is like "But i'm top DPS"
daring marlin
I went lock cuz of that too
uneven mason
yeah this isn't our first night on him
our first night we had 7
and its still horrible
we have 6 going into tonight
and I'm like that Surv hunter better have a fucking bow out
keen spire
this is why I'm considering rerolling druid
so I can hop into balance as needed
and still have my loot spec on tank if I want to tank
or heals or whatever
I just wish druids weren't so.. floppy
neon tangle
I'm still confused why my guild leader rerolled from fury -> ret
keen spire
Ret is a snorefest compared to fury
daring marlin
Ret utility and they’re gonna be more fun this tier.
neon tangle
Mainly when we need more ranged
He did it because it's easier to raid lead while playing afaik
keen spire
wut
sand egret
not-popular opinion: the issue isn't that there is more melee or ranged classes, it's that melee based on how WoW is designed is less effective in a universal setting. Specifically, they are subject to more drawbacks than ranged.
the "melee friendly" vs "melee not friendly" issue is simply a product of a larger problem
keen spire
So let's all reroll shaman
So we can play ranged dps
and then swap to melee when it becomes the new meta
sand egret
funny enough, Enhance is one of the better examples of solutions
sand egret
biggest case is simply effectiveness in space
mellow quartz
Why you want ranged
sand egret
exactly
fundamentally there is only X amount of space around a model within the 5 yard radius
mellow quartz
That has nothing to do with melee being designed less efficient as such
keen spire
o.O
mellow quartz
Melee by definition is not ranged lol
lavish oracle
eeeeeeey
keen spire
Yeah I think yall are arguing different things
ancient reef
so why is ret more fun now
daring marlin
It has better AoE with the DS buff and the two new traits.
oblique garnet
boosting keys with prot is laughably easy
sick sentinel
How much do you get per key?
ionic fern
We recently got 30k each for a +10
knotty berry
I don't get why someone would pay that but that's amazing
ancient reef
thats crazy
ionic fern
People got loads of gold.🤷
oblique garnet
Its on time and armor stacking
daring marlin
I’ll never understand people doing it lol
ionic fern
If i had gold cap i'd do it also on alts.:(
oblique garnet
Its fast way to gear up alts
thorn fiber
is the new trait on the deathguard pcs good.. the apothecary's concotions? over bloodsport?
sick sentinel
@snow crow if you hate devastator you're pressing too much
tulip pond
Hey, which ring should I be using
Ring 1
370 ilvl
266 Stam
284 crit
122 haste
69 leech
[Socket]
Ring 2
385 ilvl
312 stam
173 crit
259 mastery
[Socket]
Big ilvl
thorn fiber
minor stam increase for stats? I would think leech would be more valuable there.
lusty grotto
wouldn't it have been easier to just Shift + Windows Key + S and paste into chat @tulip pond ?
no
leech is a tertiary
and more stat budget on 15 more ilvls
given the fact that our secondaries are close in value, this is a good upgrade
thorn fiber
ok, I was thinking haste and leech and more crit vs the small stam and mastery.
lusty grotto
it isn't
once again secondaries are close in value
that means the sum of all secondaries on higher ilvl is better than the latter
neon tangle
bask in the glory of crit
supple path
I do suspect we're really undervaluing leech these days, though lord knows what it'd actually math out to equivalency-wise.
Probably some stupidly complicated curve where its value relative to other stats decreases as your raw damage taken increases.
lusty grotto
it's random enough to get it as it is
maybe on same ilvls, both with haste, it's worth looking into
uneven mason
while we have "priority" haste being first doesn't mean that its like 5x the value of other stats 😄
I'd say in the situations where leech is going to have an impact (big dick pulls) the 260 fucking mastery on that 385 is going to take whatever healing that is out back to the shed and have it way
crisp fractal
Hey guys. Today was my first time tanking Uldir Mythic. My Guild is tryink to kill Zek'voz atm. I noticed in our Logs that my Azerit Trait Impassive Visage never Procs, not once in 14 Wipes. Is that Bugged in that fight or am i missing something.
daring marlin
leech is just a nice to have and that’s it lol
uneven mason
are you sure you have it selected Dr smokey?
crisp fractal
yes on 2 Items
uneven mason
is it plugged in
snow crow
@sick sentinel I just hate pressing it in general. Gimme less buttons
crystal creek
ya are you sure you had it equipped would be my first question
crystal creek
blow on the cartridge.
uneven mason
like your gearsets might've gotten screwy
wiggle it back and forth
up and down
now press hard when you power it on
are we decribing a NES system
or a pron
crystal creek
Ditto. I even found my game genie.
crystal creek
Well, i hope that answers your IV question. Next.
uneven mason
the real treasure was loading up Final fantasy and finding my 4 white mage game still saved before Chaos
crystal creek
Nothing beats when you upgraded your boys.
uneven mason
especially since white wizards cast animation literally looked like they were flicking the monsters off
crisp fractal
Yes it was in My Shoulders and in my headpeace and it was selected i am 100% sure
crisp fractal
uneven mason
that is quite fucked
crisp fractal
uneven mason
all in all though
uh
IV not proccing isn't why you're dying
but I'd say respec your pieces
and hope that fixes it.
lusty grotto
umm IV not proccing happens
i've seen people on other channels say similar things about proc-able traits
it could be a bug, or it could be just RNG
tough to confirm
crisp fractal
Mhhh it had proced on Talos for example
crisp fractal
Yes on Taloc it healed me for about 28%
crisp fractal
yes we know ^^
uneven mason
if you're hitting add wave 3 or 4 its time to have your pewpewboys do some research and training
lusty grotto
it could be outright bugged
does anyone have IV and another M Zek log we can compare this to?
uneven mason
VOIDBOLTS
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
the # of bolts that should ever be cast on Zek is...
how many Nim
popquiz
uneven mason
well, the first one was right
crisp fractal
😄
lusty grotto
yeah those MCs aren't getting fucked in the ass
once i'm done with work ill check the IV thing
i just need another IV + M Zek log
lusty grotto
cause if this is a bug it should be reported to Blizz asap
one sec i just remembered where i saw people saying shit wasn't proccing
uneven mason
So I got a lot of IV procs as fury on Zek
lusty grotto
so there was one guy saying CA wasn't proccing (this is an Arms trait) on Taloc and Mother
and he linked the logs, and he was right
we need a way to reproduce this
lusty grotto
yeah it has to be some stupid condition that we don't know about
sick sentinel
@snow crow I'm opposite to that, I can't not have a filler, I have to be pressing something all the time
sand egret
ooooo did someone say bug?
sick sentinel
My azerite veins didn't proc on ghuun Reeeeeeeeee
sand egret
now we're talking my language
sick sentinel
@supple path leach memes are fun if you greet the opportunity to reach them ( I had 6% leach on my items with the highest ilvl for a bit) but I would never drop ilvl for it, because in the overall of the dungeon it might seem substantial but its so little healing per pull it doesn't really make a difference
That's why it's just "leach memes"
snow crow
@sick sentinel I’m that way on fury but with prot it feels weird
keen spire
leach is a word
sand egret
not in wow
sick sentinel
Im on my phone
sick sentinel
And out it auto corrects
neon tangle
@keen spire I mean some of us played 8.0 warrior
sick sentinel
Ya dick
sand egret
"out it"?
keen spire
^
sand egret
😆
keen spire
❤
sick sentinel
I hate all of you
sand egret
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏
snow crow
@sick sentinel for me I think it’s I’m worried that time spent using it could kill me. But I only just started getting back to prot yesterday since Legion. Gotta work that muscle memory
keen spire
Dude prot is so nice in that the filler you press is only there if shit isn't proccing
sick sentinel
You can see parces of tanks using it like 7 times
sick sentinel
Revenge procs have nothing to do with deva
sand egret
perty sure he implied that revenge procs are the reason you don't have to hit Deva....like SS resets
keen spire
^
sand egret
albeit a tad confusing since deva does cause the reset
keen spire
it's not the only way
keen spire
Well
neon tangle
@crisp fractal maybe also worth experimenting with taking a whole combo
rather than splitting it
sand egret
but even so, it causing a reset still means you dont hit it again so that still makes sense so idk
crisp fractal
@neon tangle thx I will discuss that
neon tangle
Warrior + DK are both very good at taking the whole thing
@crisp fractal it's particularly nice for mythic since you won't have the 50% healing debuff while tanking the boss + dodging circles
healers tend to be more distracted, can't cast as much
crisp fractal
So pull CDs take the combo and than for 10sec avoid everything
neon tangle
DK will use use AMS for the first lash (at 384 he should take zero damage, not get the debuff), take shatter, 2x DS to heal back to full, take second lash
he'll have vampiric blood up for each combo
you just need to pool enough rage to IP each part of the combo, make sure to have block or shield wall up for shatter
and if you time it right you can have demo shout up for the whole combo
quartz gyro
So endless hunger, Is 274 vers stronger than iron fortress's 400 block
oblique garnet
You should use last stand before the combo so the healing doesnt get reduced and you basically havee sb up for the entire combo and its ez
topaz beacon
How is prot doing now in Uldir?
lusty grotto
if its not in the guide, it's not worth it, unless if it's a higher ilvl piece @quartz gyro . Look at the Icy Veins guide in the pins
lusty grotto
Prot was always looking good in Uldir @topaz beacon
neon tangle
You can both exit combo w/ near 100% health
topaz beacon
@lusty grotto ok I am trying to figure out if I should take a leap and tank a heroic uldir tonight while still only having a 340 shield
lusty grotto
should be viable
lusty grotto
hehehe i went viable
daring marlin
viable !?
lusty grotto
viable
crystal creek
viable = you could, but if you can't it's not my fault.
topaz beacon
hehe
lusty grotto
just let us know if you're having issues in fights
dreamy patrol
E
neon tangle
^^^ depending on what you've been tanking as (if you have tanked at all?) prot is still less forgiving
lusty grotto
there's a lot of SR going on to reduce certain attacks (cough Mythrax) and a lot of blocking management (cough Zek)
primal crypt
🤔
crystal creek
I tanked up to g'huun when i was 350, you should be gucci for heroic.
daring patrol
Just make sure you come through complaining about how you thought shield block was an ohshit button and you can't keep ignore pain up
lusty grotto
i mean
this shouldnt be a surprise
but you can't expect people to know what effective uptime on SB + LS is
or to know that you need to keep Demo up always
when getting hit
or when doing deeps
shit, why does my ally rogue have WM off
im a rogue goddamn it
daring marlin
name?
crystal creek
You prolly logged off pre faction balance.
daring marlin
sneakychip?
lusty grotto
Guilfort
crystal creek
Nimblechip
daring marlin
nimblechip would be amazing
oblique garnet
Sneakychip would be best for rogue
crystal creek
i prefer Nachochip
sand egret
I'm partial to Invisichip
i actually don't know what you're talking about but if it's Nim's new Rogue, I stick to my story.
lusty grotto
its not new 😦
lusty grotto
im partial to backstabchip
hushed cobalt
Does bolster count for AM checks? Example yazma in atal and her stabby thing
daring marlin
Because nothing happens with bolster up.
lusty grotto
there are no AM checks in BFA
daring marlin
thought so
primal crypt
zero
shut summit
Isn't an AM check like there were in legion
hushed cobalt
Hmm that makes sense
primal crypt
if you dont have it
shut summit
But something you want AM up for
daring marlin
Only fight I don’t maintain sb up on is yazma and dazar prolly
primal crypt
or extra damage
daring marlin
blade combo wut?
sand egret
i honestly didnt realize that was a thing to care about until I first tanked it on my druid lol
hushed cobalt
Ah I dropped to #3 prot by 6 points!
And I need 70 to hit #1
I need a news team to assemble
lavish oracle
Yeah, a tank from the top raiding guild on my server just swapped to prot and inched ahead of me
hushed cobalt
Doing a 10 last week with some guildies that don't normally do them
"What prot dps is insane! Why do we have a dh and dk??"
hushed cobalt
From legion and idk why else.
hushed cobalt
Both tanks talk about swapping
Dh > warr and dk > dh
lusty grotto
no idea why the dk would go dh lol
hushed cobalt
Mobility issues
lavish oracle
Double warrior
lusty grotto
why the fuck does he need mobility
lavish oracle
solved
hushed cobalt
Merp and "dk's in general are squishy in pvp"
tacit smelt
that feeling when you do the new warfront and get a 385 azerite piece.... but you have a better 385 in that slot
hushed cobalt
How else are you suppose to get around when wrath walk is on cd
hushed cobalt
To reposition /s
hushed cobalt
Haven't played one since cata/mop
sand egret
i mean, I can feel him. Infernal Leap is just really hard to give up once you live it
err Strike
hushed cobalt
World
lusty grotto
PFFT
hushed cobalt
Ish, maybe 2/3s
hushed cobalt
Everything else is broken, like my 110 255ilvl havoc dh
lusty grotto
when he finds out you are completely countered by a frost mage.... and have 0 mobility
hushed cobalt
Dks aren't broken
hushed cobalt
He's a strange ranger for sure. Probably just looking at the upsides to everything else
hushed cobalt
I don't instance pvp much besides on my disc priest for...i forgot what for
primal crypt
lusty grotto
hes also trading a paper tank for a paper tank, with a bit limited utility
just so he can move in pvp
if i was GL i wouldn't allow it
hushed cobalt
Haha it's like a reverse confirmation bias
scarlet vortex
u guys ever got any problems keeping aggro on adds on mother mythic? like as soon as they spawn i pop avatar and TC but htey pop like 40k AoE dps the first sec and i'm stuck waiting for next TC and revenge
primal crypt
...
lusty grotto
are you using demo shout
primal crypt
shockwave?
lusty grotto
make sure you're not forgetting the demo shout dmg buff otherwise known as BV
hushed cobalt
GL and him are the tanks, they are either really good friends irl or brothers
hushed cobalt
Like my warrior does aoe damage and that's busted. He can heal on his dk with no killing blow, that's not.
Each tank has their trade offs
scarlet vortex
yea i used demo shout/avatar/stun/TC/revenge/TC
they didn't stunn except me, paladin did use BoP but died after it
i did get blamed for it alot
couldn't keep aggro on em to fast
hushed cobalt
Maybe I should encourage his tank swap to let him see the light 🤔
But I'm a healer and the toon you bring to heroic is the toon that stays til aotc(barring EXTREME changes)
lusty grotto
hmm
scarlet vortex
or what do you mean? i use shout, then avatar, then tc
then revenge, then tc
with a stun in between
hushed cobalt
I would avatar early, demo - tclap - stun - tclap - revenge - tclap
old zephyr
I encountered this
hushed cobalt
If they are pulling off it's someone focusing just 1 blob
old zephyr
precast avatar, demo Tclap shokwave, tclap
lavish oracle
Honestly, I'd avatar early tclap->demo->tclap->stun
Just so you're not waiting for GCD to grab threat
lusty grotto
avatar -> tclap -> demo -> tclap
then rince tclap spam with SSes and Revenges
but...
that probably isn't what's causing the threat thing
scarlet vortex
SSes?
lusty grotto
shield slam
hushed cobalt
Is there a hunter or rogue with you...?
lusty grotto
that shouldn't matter
scarlet vortex
tbh, they didn't stun or use tricks or anything on me
didn't stop em from blaming me tho
hunter + rogue but didn't use anything on me
lusty grotto
are you sure they aren't just taunting off like mongos?
scarlet vortex
no i don't think so
lusty grotto
idk man, it sounds like either youre doing something wrong
hushed cobalt
Tell them to tricks/md the adds or get benched
lusty grotto
or there's some shenanigans going on on their part
scarlet vortex
not sure what i could've done wrong :p did the combo
tricks and md def would've helped
lusty grotto
you shouldn't need tricks or md
supple path
Real question is how many people are going through on this group.
scarlet vortex
15
with spiritlink/barrier combo
might've been a to big burst i think, ret pala/DH/mages
supple path
And how long are they usually living?
supple path
Like demo shout is NOT worth your first gcd if the pack is dying in 5 seconds
scarlet vortex
maybe abit more
we do have Cutting Edge and i'm rerolling tank now, maybe it's cause of the 10-13 ilvl diffrence
supple path
A pre-cast avatar thunderclap should definitely hold aggro, only reason I could see it not is if you're missing some and then as they spawn they're aggroing DPS
lavish oracle
Even then if you're pulling 40k they'd need to be pulling 4x that to pull threat off of you
supple path
Yeah, someone aggroing an add that spawns after your initial TC and before second TC hits it is only real scenario, and MD/tricks/stuns cover that window.
scarlet vortex
yea, pala did bop but died after, which was a problem
lusty grotto
something doesn't add up
supple path
Yeah, it happens constantly if adds aren't stunned + aggro a DPS
cause there are 15 of them
I was doing a mythic mother pug a few days ago, was a serious problem until I managed to be the #1 overaggroer as arms and just DbtS'd it every time.
scarlet vortex
around start the dh died, then 3-4 sec later pala
well thanks guys, i'll tell em next time to just stun more, i probably could've prepped it more with early avatar
was my first mythic raid i tanked so we pretty nervous, so might've missed something
reef tendon
do you guys have any thoughts on that new endless hunger trait from the warfront?
looks interesting
just got a 385 chest from the warfront with it on there. i'll probably go with the IF that's on it, but the perma vers and healing from dead bodies is interesting
reef tendon
kind of. the guide in the pins does a good job of telling you the ability prio
scarlet vortex
well for AoE just sort of
meager sluice
Are pins available on mobile?
reef tendon
yeah
primal crypt
yeah
scarlet vortex
for ST it's just prio one spell over another and fill with devastator i think
primal crypt
top right
reef tendon
upper right part of your screen if you are on android
primal crypt
iphone?
scarlet vortex
it's under some icon, when u click it u'll get 2 options, 1 is for pins
primal crypt
tap your screen
meager sluice
Found it ty
primal crypt
and you get the pins
modern brook
I def feel like explaining pins is longer than answering the q
lusty grotto
i mean
if people read the instructions besides the #protection title, it wouldn't be a problem
and besides typing 
is not a big deal
the only people that seem to have problems finding the pin icon are mobile users anyway
modern brook
Ur not forgiven