how do
#protection
cinder nova
cinder nova
Does Ava goober the orb root?
cinder nova
Ahh.
empty locust
Very handy to know cheers
cinder nova
How do
fierce juniper
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/340884379
^ left side
with far gate
kinda depends on where you have lock gates
as to what you need to do to solo
but its basically the same thing regardless
some combination of charge, leap, charge
and using gate
just make sure you save avatar for when you go up in case you get rooted
empty locust
Will be using four locks because we are fortunate to have many
Very good info, still planning out the fight with our team so lots of discussion
fierce juniper
with the boil nerf soloing isnt as helpful as it was
but if you can do it consistently its probably worth
sick sentinel
is 5 ilvl worth of block/armor on a shield worth more than 55 leech as prot in M+?
fierce juniper
yes
sick sentinel
@fierce juniper thanks! is that something that can be simmed or just always take ilvl for shields?
fierce juniper
Can't sim defensively (or for DPS for Prot atm) for tanks.
But yes always take ilvl for shields
sick sentinel
thanks!!!
fierce juniper
np
fringe marten
Are the Multithreading options in?
Are they a manual toggle or automatic?
Guess it's just through the dx 12 renderer, but I already had that enabled.
zinc creek
it's automatic as long as you're using DX12 in game
round vortex
@cinder nova I'll send you another video of solo orb running as well
round vortex
Oh. Didn't kow it was different sorry bro
cinder nova
Ye very different mate
warped hound
kinda?
warped hound
ye
outer dew
then not bad for this weeks vs last
but it could of been just better play
๐ค
if so, dayum
BDK got fucked
distant crystal
outer dew
i'd rather use BDI
BFI
the 6 second exetend isn't gonna trump the value in raw stats + bfi
but that's my preference
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
outer dew
if it was before
where with DC you could get like 75% demo uptime
hell yea
but 6 second exetend is no bueno
even specifies in pins
raven kernel
Bdk taking more dmg than prot is nothing new
Just that the gap is slightly wider now
karmic viper
i think thats also BDKs not adjusting to changes yet either
warped hound
๐ฆ we'll be better soon we promise
ember arrow
Right
outer dew
oh boi
ember arrow
Thats ehat ppl said about bfa too
outer dew
levko here again
ember arrow
Ye. Got a problem?
ionic fern
๐ค
ionic fern
True story
ember arrow
Past career
granite stump
Ello ppl, I can't play prot for shit, but I'm just curious. Do y'all feel prot is higher upon the tier ladder after the patch. Just curious
weary nacelle
How's everyone doing today?
After spending some time yesterday going through all possible pieces I've got.. pretty much between 370 till 390.. i must say that I wouldn't be making changes to the traits. For the time being (until new gear comes out) i'm gonna be using the same one as in 8.0.
Main traits are 1x DC, 1x BI, 1x Archive - raiding wise.
Dungeon wise will probably be changing archive for IF or BI again. Both are decent options, i guess.
What worries me tho is that we don't really have anything to change now, feels kind of poor, doesn't it. I wanted to play some more with the traits and make some changes, but nothing is better for now.
eager hollow
You will be able to play with more traits when we get the next t1 trait ring
But right now all the prot ones are fine, but you need a DC ๐คท
weary nacelle
I agree. My point was that no changes are currently required compared to 8.0
what used to be good in 8.0 is bis for the current state of 8.1 as well. So nothing really need to try out there and to play it. We just keep it the same while next ring comes out.
tight tree
Anyone raiding already after 8.1? Does it feels better defensive-wise? Looking for feelycrafting ๐
floral tinsel
Yes, its much stronger
weary nacelle
I did mythic taloc, mother and zekvoz yesterday. Felt pretty decent. Having ignore pain off GCD just feels RIGHT man.. i love it. The difference is huge, and the rotation feels smooth, no silly interuptions.
floral tinsel
We did Mythic Fetid yesterday (still wiping.... we are shit and have to many melee).. However looking at logs I am mitigating 73% of incomeing damage vs. 69% pre patch (gear is not changed since last attempt on Sunday). Also the feeling man.. the feeling.. It just feels so much better to play
weary nacelle
Exactly!
floral tinsel
As Chol said. Rotation feels much smoother. You are not stuck in akward GCD when doing short range charges (Intercepts), If you proc a free Revenge there is an actual chance you get to press the button, if you pile up rage during Avatar you get to spend it on IP to lessen the burden on the healers...... Funny enought, the DC nerf actually feels decent as well as you are not as anal as before ty try and jam Thunder Clap at the exact right time every time
weary nacelle
A good point here, Agent, DC was really good prior the patch, but it forced us to spam that button, feel bad when missing a clap, and always think "i could've done better claps". So sometimes it left me wondering.
Current situation is.. you do 3x claps and you know that this is the maximum you can put into the uptime.. and that's it, you go back to your regular rotation
floral tinsel
yep!
eager hollow
Compared to the blood dk tank I felt pretty strong in the raid
tight tree
Used to feel like shit compared to DK. But it was start of mythic prog and i was undergeared. Hyped for raid this Friday.
Brewmaster will be safer choice for my main raid probably, but nice to see that warrior doing better.
raven kernel
Prot is going to show up in next MDI I'm sure
For the suitable dungeons
Ie mainly blockable dmg
sick sentinel
what do you feel as prot against forti affix this week? for me diff is huge, I've done 15 waycrest last week in time and this week 12 was almost run out of time...
no way prot will show on MDI
eager hollow
I did 12 wcm and i was doing same dps as the dpsers
wide girder
anyone can tell me why top m+ prots still using 1-2 archives?
sick sentinel
prot has to many problem to deal with affixes like necro compare to BM or DK
eager hollow
Thunder clap is insane
raven kernel
You can cherry pick your comp for each dungeon
sick sentinel
i got prot pala 380. dk 380 and prot warrior 385
odd ledge
on blizzcon mdi they could swap 1 character for each dungeon
sick sentinel
didnt play yet pala and dk yet this week
but i feel like garbage on prot ๐ WM and Tol Dagor was tragic...
wide girder
one more time: anyone can tell me why top m+ prots still using 1-2 archives?
hollow thorn
I can only see Prot being played if several of the dungeons they are doing are good for prot
eager hollow
It's more armour and damage
raven kernel
Cos they cbf to respec
hollow thorn
if 1/3 is good for prot its not worth the swap, unless the rest of comp is set in stone
eager hollow
Strength is just good
sick sentinel
i decided to take second archive 390 vs thunder clap treit 375
hollow thorn
@wide girder The highest ilvl azerite mostly has Archive on it, thats probably why
hollow thorn
Cus the archive pieces are easy to get
sick sentinel
its only 6 sec, i dont feel to much diff to be honest
its nice to have demo shout longer, its obvious
but more basic str and staminna + archive is like 300 str more
in items 375 vs 390
weary nacelle
so you guys are actually running archive outside uldir? Im sorry for asking, what is the reason for that?
We do struggle with surviving, so don't you prefer to take Iron Fortress or Brace for impact for more mitigation? Can you share your feedback on the subject and why would you go with 1 or 2 archives, why any at all
wide girder
@weary nacelle briefly, str gives not only a damage. also armor and absorb
sick sentinel
main stat is ur main prio as prot
wide girder
chain pulls like on this week u have awlays 500+ str
sick sentinel
so in fact ilvl > secondary\
everyone seys haste is the best
but i also wear all items by ilvl
and i got like 16/18 crit 10% haste 23% mastery 8/9% vers
i was also tryin go moe haste but there is not that much diff, like 1 sec less cd on sheild and 0.3 sec on thunder clap
by the way i also drop trinket 390 with in use effect crit rating
and its pretty good on avatar/demo combo dps window ๐
only 1 min cd on this trinket
so you got those all 3 together everytime
this is trinket from new world boss
weary nacelle
amazing, thank you for the explanation guys!
I got that trinket from the new world boss as well, its 385 tho. Good 1mts CD, I agree.
Btw.. if you got with 2x archives, what would be your 3rd trait? Would that be DC?
sick sentinel
yea DC is still good
weary nacelle
just wondering what would fit best 2x archives as a 3rd trait
sick sentinel
you can check
on raider.io
Sense
its one of the best prot warr
look at his items/stats/treits
and also look into top 10 what are they preferences
smoky mesa
Are there any infos about the new alchemist trinket? Vers + Str proc doesn't sound to bad
pale vigil
Is Vengeance being used again with IP off the gcd now?
sick sentinel
yes its prety nice trinket
but is funny, i saw a lot of prot warriors use enginnering now
I choose this prof 2 months ago
and now everyone picked this ๐
new head from engi with those treits
is awesome
you can have
dire wyvern
dont think vengeance is good enough to replace booming voice
pale vigil
I was thinking vengeance would be decent for m+
sick sentinel
nah, you want spend your rage only for ignore pain and shield block, revenge is usually used only on free proc
dire wyvern
You parry enough to get free revenges all the time
pale vigil
True
wintry trout
How is prot feeling after patch? Thinking of picking it up again as an alt M+ tank.
weary nacelle
Sense seems to be using Bastion of Might on his helmet. Interesting.. I wonder what made him use this one.
sick sentinel
in my opinion
this bastion treit
is relly nice
it gives a lot of mastery
mastery = more dmg ๐
unfortunately i dont have any single one ;/
i could run like 2 x archive and 1x bastion
lucid needle
sorry if this has been discussed, but how does everyone feel the new patch is treating prot?
viable?
misty thicket
@wintry trout prot feels significantly better to play post patch. With the reduced shield block recharge and ignore pain off the GCD we feel 'tankier' or rather have less moments of feeling helpless
wide girder
1 archive + 1 dc + bom. smth like this
wintry trout
@misty thicket Were they in a good spot for high end M+ previous to 8.1?
plucky viper
I rolled a new prot last night, excited to see how they are now
wintry trout
Maining DK as my M+ tank atm but prot warr has always been the fav
misty thicket
They were certainly warriors doing good highend pre patch. But with 8.1 and the extra damage output of prot we will maybe see a few more at the high end
oblique garnet
@sick sentinel never drop dc for bom drop archive for it if something
plucky viper
less threat gen also were not aggroing trees now
sick sentinel
@oblique garnet but its only 6sec extra vs 300 more main stat all the time, diff is not that big, ofc DC is the best but 375 DC treit vs 390 archive I would take archive
oblique garnet
If you already have on dc then ye but if you dont go for dc
sick sentinel
for that moment i run 2x archive and 1 revenge
i have option only switch archive to DC treit in chest slot
floral tinsel
And the damage increase on Clap is not bad either
mortal pike
Anyone else having issues with the new DC Weakaura? Can't get it to show
sick sentinel
it's fine for me
mortal pike
Just import and use or did you change any settings?
sick sentinel
I just moved it and resized it to fit my UI
rocky light
Prot warrior gott damage buff?
dire wyvern
Through IP being off GCD there is an indirect damage buff
quasi mural
Not directly a damage buff, but Ignore Pain off the gcd means more use for other damage abilities
rocky light
Thanks โค
snow osprey
also new trait, one that gives you mastery during avatar, could be used as a trait for damage output
stacking 2 traits gives you 1000 mastery during avatar
we didn't really have that option before
hollow holly
how good is intimidating presence and does its damage prevention stack?
snow pebble
how good is it though?
dark lark
It's an inner trait, they're usually the most inconsequential
snow osprey
IS has 1.5m cooldown. I think even resonating shield would be of a much more benefit...
in terms of DR
sick sentinel
in my opinion intimidating presence is rly nice if u have it 2x
for big pulls on m+ like freehold or waycrest manor its next def cd ability
how much AP we get for 1 k mastery?
digital delta
Prot warr in m+= 4 dps 1 healer
sick sentinel
yea but its obvious since they released m+ in bfa ๐
its fun because i almost all my dung doing with pug,
rocky light
Anyone know a good full prot warrior UI with weakauras and shit?
sick sentinel
few times i was doin 14 and people was shocked of fact that on bigger pulls i was first in dps ๐
usually after 14, they want me also on 15 ๐
a lot of people seys prot has no utylity
it does
prot warrior utylity is aoe dmg ๐
subtle shard
did they buff mythic plus dungeons damage?
primal crypt
yes
sick sentinel
yea, by fortified ๐
primal crypt
Teeming Fortified buff
manic perch
@rocky light check Sense's UI see if you like it
sick sentinel
@subtle shard I know what you feel, 2 days ago i was doin 14/15
manic perch
you can find it on his twitch channel
primal crypt
btw fuck kings rest
sick sentinel
same dungeons on 12 was rly hard during those affixes
primal crypt
zero CC on berserker now
primal crypt
only thing that works is pet taunt or trees
especially this week....they dont die quickly
sick sentinel
yea personally, I dont udnerstand that change
if you get 3 stacks from berserker during tyranical affix, it ticks for 100k dmg
manic perch
dont think anyone in the world understands 80% of blizz changes, even the guys who implement them ๐
tight tree
on my monk i just let statue tank them ;/ Does not hold for long, but eats 1-2 debuffs
manic perch
reminds me of my old company...
manager: we want to implement this
me: thats not a good idea because of X, Y, Z
manager: implement it anyway
me: :S ok...
month later.....
Manager: plz revert changes
sick sentinel
yea, on monk you can take 1 stack, give second stack to statue and you can take again 1 stack
tight tree
They immune to everything
sick sentinel
nope bro
ember arrow
since 8.1?
sick sentinel
yep
gaunt dawn
immune to all CC since 8.1
ember arrow
oof
gaunt dawn
you can make a pet taunt it after leap
sick sentinel
now its like maw of souls first boss tact xD
gaunt dawn
โ
tight tree
you just feed DPS to them really
ember arrow
i dodged it 3 months ago, so its a slow bullet
gaunt dawn
or that
vocal nimbus
I already make them dot someone else every other cast
tight tree
When bleed about to go off, leap behind someone ๐
vocal nimbus
Ideally treants or pets
sick sentinel
yea
vocal nimbus
If you are bdk just stand behind the beastmaster
primal crypt
ideally
good luck in pugs
not being able to slow means you're running to the beginning of the dungeon lmao
sick sentinel
boomie stil BiS for kings rest bcs of mass roots on 1 boss and trents on room and now next thing to do: trents on berserkers ๐
sick sentinel
yea but you could just stun them or slow etc
vocal nimbus
Treants are pretty pog
sick sentinel
I think the next thing will be nerf on trents aggro ^^
merry cave
Treants are the best tank in BFA
quasi mural
What would you say is the difference, measured in key-levels between easiest and hardest M+ ?
dire wyvern
just compare the top keys completed
sick sentinel
forti with teeming
sick sentinel
last week was one of the easiest ones because you can made big pulls
sick sentinel
during this week you cant because you will die rly quickly
big pulls depends how much tank can hold
this weak you cant do to much
quasi mural
Yeah, but I feel measuring top lists is a bit different than what I feel personally:)
sick sentinel
last week you could take muuuch more
dire wyvern
I mean, thats pretty accurate
quasi mural
For me, 13 FH feels easier than 10 SotS ๐
sick sentinel
because probably you ran like 100x FH and 10X SoTs ๐
dire wyvern
FH AD ML TD < WCM SoB < Temple shrine UR < KR
quasi mural
true:)
sick sentinel
its all about whole team. If people knows how to deal with some trash/boss
its much easier
sots is pretty simple
only 1 and 3 bosses are tricky
but with good group
oblique garnet
??
dire wyvern
??
quasi mural
??
oblique garnet
Sots first boss is a joke
sick sentinel
no with pug ^^
quasi mural
2nd feels hardest
oblique garnet
it is a joke with pugs
primal crypt
LOL
oblique garnet
2nd boss not really
primal crypt
LMAOOOOOO
sick sentinel
yesterday i was on 14
primal crypt
LOLLLLLLLL
sick sentinel
yep ๐
sick sentinel
ppl with 1.3k score xD
primal crypt
Hearthstone.
dire wyvern
Imagine comparing boss difficulty via playing with mankis
oblique garnet
What big aoe
quasi mural
The Surge?
sick sentinel
on sots
sick sentinel
ah sorry, i ment Temple of sethralis
dire wyvern
lmao
primal crypt
LAWLLLLLL
severe pond
lol
sick sentinel
๐ ๐
dire wyvern
Temple is probably the hardest tyrannical in the game other than UR first boss
sick sentinel
yea
viscid hatch
UR first boss measures the size of your pp
narrow abyss
Easily yeah
sick sentinel
but I dont get it why they did not post all of these changes
dire wyvern
Yeh temple last boss nerf is good, very true
primal crypt
3rd boss is bugged though
dire wyvern
We will never be able to 'learn to kill adds eventually'
primal crypt
gotta be careful
hollow thorn
Bugged how?
primal crypt
one pillar shooting 2-3 beams
dire wyvern
on the highest keys they shoot too fast to interrupt once 2 have spawned and die to slow to deal with them
hollow thorn
If u save CDs u can mass grip first cast and nuke them
can they be stunned?
i cant remember
dire wyvern
You cant nuke them fast enough at high keys
you would also have to kill them fast enough
and then kill boss before 3x adds spawn
its not possible
hollow thorn
3x adds on first boss that a big yikes
dire wyvern
it is
weary pier
yo team prot
can prot warrrior solo mythic ghuun orb using a lockk portal at half way?
signal plover
Yes
weary pier
or is it too dicey?
dire wyvern
yes
signal plover
Can do it several different ways
dire wyvern
shouldnt be any trouble with some practise
signal plover
Bring draenic living action potions or a paladin freedom to avoid bad root RNG
But there's a route u can take with Leap>intercept>gate that almost never has roots
tiny wave
Is Deafening Crash still worth even for 15 less ilvl?
dire wyvern
yes
mellow bridge
"Temple was nerfed this week aswell
Last boss has 1 less phase"
Really? Holy thats great
primal crypt
but you cant CC berserkers in KR as a trade
mellow bridge
No cc as in no e.g. DH cage or no stuns like stormbolt?
tight tree
no nothing like nothing
primal crypt
because you getting 3 stacks my friend
You can compare them to the juggernaut, and he's coming to spread them cheeks
primal crypt
Which is going to be you if that taunt isn't there
dire wyvern
its casted and usually after they leap away
its gonna be harder but you can still spread it
not that i think its fine
the bezerker dot was fucked even before
crystal creek
I'm guessing if enough people are having issues with those zerks, they will switch them back.
mild maple
You're overestimating blizz
mild maple
If they do revert this change they'll do it begrudgingly in the last patch of the expac and buff the rest of the instance to compensate
There's nothing the current development team likes less than the community calling one of their ill-planned impulsive design changes bad
sand egret
Zerks do their range check post Bloodied Leap, it is still gameable
rapid trench
berserkers and the waycrest manor mobs between tree and triad
mild maple
I kind of hate that Dark Iron Dwarves make normal Dwarves obselete
The new heritage armour is swag up to 11
sand egret
normal stoneform does the same thing
sand egret
just trade str for phys reduc
eh its 800 str vs 10% phys reduction
unless you got a fat stack of debuffs, the removal is the true str
mild maple
I mean it's the same for Dorf
The 10% is mostly meaningless
It's about the sick personal dispell
primal crypt
Dorf!
mild maple
Maybe the damage resist should scale
ionic fern
Just Light's Judgment.,๐
sand egret
10% reduction is nothing to slouch at
mild maple
I want 5% extra per dispel
Also i want a glyph that turns me into a diamond like magni
I'm not needy
crystal creek
hrm, do Prot even have glyphs? I guess I've never looked.
primal crypt
yea
mild maple
glyphs in 2018 ;_;
primal crypt
I dont know what they are
mild maple
Here's my bold opinion: Glyphs in Wrath/Cata added more depth than Azerite armour
You can shower me with courage points now
broken roost
I would have agreed a few months ago but probably not anymore (for most classes, anyway)
quasi mural
I would like more Azerite traits like DC, which makes you change priorities and rotations, or modifies abilites.
What about:
Bullseye: Your heroic throw interrupts spellcasting, (30 sec cd on interrupt)
crystal creek
My big question is should I roll the dice on the cheaper random Azerite or wait for the ones I want.
mild maple
Yeah I know, but the initial implementation with 3 rings that are not greater(?), major and minor glyphs made me laugh
At least with glyphs you added them into a selectable pool
Oh man
They should bring back heroic throw interrupts
Put like a 5 second CD on heroic throw
Give Prot a chance to approach Blood or Brewmaster utility in 5mans
sand egret
@crystal creek im waiting personally. gonna save until the new rings come online
thereโs going to be an initial power grab for essentially free traits at the patch
id like to have a few rng options to sate that haha
mild maple
Blizz mentioned that they're gonna up the cost at the patch
mild maple
I'd be surprised if you could afford a single max ilvl azerite piece if you saved until the raid came out
sand egret
i dunno, havent looked at the raid
mild maple
Imo better off spending now for memes and getting back on the treadmill when blizz wants you to
sand egret
never said anything bout max
crystal creek
Might make it easier to choose which piece if there's certain ones in raid that have what you want
sand egret
385 w/ extra ring > 385 w/o
mild maple
That's true I guess, so the existing purchase options gain a ring when the raid comes out?
sand egret
well M+ gets updated
mild maple
Saving enough to buy 3 5 ring 385s seems pretty reasonable I guess
sand egret
so i imagine that azerite gear gets that going forward
mild maple
3 free traits on patch day
crystal creek
possibly. But will you have the neck level to use them
sand egret
at least the first 2 yeah
mild maple
Well it should be fine if we're grabbing 385 right
new ring should be lower than current entry ring
sand egret
im not super worried about the neck level
unique echo
Hey all, just getting back on after reset and raiding this weekend. Curious how the prot warrior changes feel, if we're going to be in the upper tiers now with the gcd change or if it helps but not enough. Not sure which tank to be pushing forward
sand egret
pick the one you like, Prot will be solid imho
has potential to shine on certain fights, so I hear
crystal creek
I'm a bit new, tanked heroic uldir yesterday like a boss. I like it.
not that heroic is hard mode, but meh
It was fun.
unique echo
What was your ilvl and did you feel spiky?
mild maple
Prot feels like it has the tools to be the least spikey tank outside of Brm
unless Bear gets some buffs
sand egret
perty sure โspikeyโ and โprot warriorโ are not supposed to be together
crystal creek
368 I think? And no I didn't feel spikey
plucky viper
im new to prot, and warrior in general. ive played casters most of my time in wow. but i feel a warrior needs a shield, its just what warriors use, so i picked prot as my spec. Will i be expected to tank 100 percent of thre time?
sand egret
if your spiking chance are you messed up
mild maple
@plucky viper both Warrior DPS specs are fun and at least 1 is always competitive
crystal creek
Or your intervening OT's thrash ๐
mild maple
You can DPS as long as you find a 2hander, if that's what you want
plucky viper
ill try arms also
unique echo
I'd go back to my bear if they got any mitigation buff, but right now they are rough to take damage on
plucky viper
i just like the idea of having a shield ,ol
mild maple
I'd go bear if they made it fun
crystal creek
They got the "vortex" and 12% dmg increase, no mitigation I think.
sand egret
well bears would prob go back and forth on you about certain things
mild maple
Bear was great at the end of Legion, stacking caster trinkets with the Boomy shoulders and going DPS crazy
It's so stripped back now though
sick sentinel
a prot warrior way is filled by pain, loneliness, disappointments and other crap staff when you wanna find solid pug group ๐
uneven mason
haven't had trouble finding pugs since they "announced" the buffs..
sand egret
but to directly answer your question, Prot would be a good choice. Esp if you wanna switch it up, stigma however, I cant speak for
uneven mason
didn't have much trouble before that either.
mild maple
In terms of having a viable DPS offspec Warr is probably the best choice
Maybe DK I don't know how the patch treated them
sand egret
they took a noticeable hit
sick sentinel
@uneven mason yes, i just kiddind, I could reach 1.4k raider io score before 8.1
๐
only with pug group
mild maple
Pugging is only bad when you assume the best in people
If you're a patient asshole it's mostly fine
sick sentinel
yea
plucky viper
lol
sick sentinel
and if you using discord
and when people see you can take dmg and deal massive dmg
they are schocked
^^
plucky viper
i like the idea i can take on a bunch of mobs at once
mild maple
It's not so much that you take a bunch of mobs
It's that you kill them before the DPS get there
and everyone is confused
plucky viper
yes!
mild maple
"Why is my tank leaping forwards and out damaging my DPS combined?"
plucky viper
but my main fear of tanking is not knowing the dungeons
i guess that comes with experience
mild maple
Yeah Tanking is a stressful role, in dungeons even moreso
sick sentinel
very good prot warrior
mild maple
You're expected to be the one who leads and knows what's going on
plucky viper
that would be my only motivation to go dps instead of prot
uneven mason
I Just avatar up and hulk smash
sick sentinel
how big pulls you can do, where dps needs to use his CDs, what skip, interrupt order etc
rich silo
What is the best traits for prot m+
sick sentinel
Dc/archive/avatar treir i would sey
uneven mason
1DC 1BoM 1Archive
mild maple
Yeah I think DC/BoM(avatar) are v strong now
and the third is sort of whatever, Archive is good
sick sentinel
archive treit from raid is also rly god
mild maple
*archive
sick sentinel
good*
unique echo
Do you think the prot changes are enough to get us into higher m+ keys?
sick sentinel
I dont think its about our boost
mild maple
Yes
sick sentinel
its about others nerfs ^^
mild maple
Prot was fine for everything but the absolute cutting edge keys
sick sentinel
yea
uneven mason
@unique echo Prot has always been capable of doing higher keys before
no one was using them though
mild maple
The changes make us competitive, even the gotto pick for certain dungeons
sick sentinel
usually people wants his DK tank on m+ but they dont know why ^^
uneven mason
High keys 90% have to do with the utility you have
sick sentinel
its because meta team comp for 20+
unique echo
I understand that, but not in the communities eyes. Queueing into a higher m+ key was almost an instant decline
sick sentinel
but they wanna do 10-13+...
uneven mason
@unique echo you're not going to do high keys in a pug
build your own team
cover the bases
mild maple
Having a DK tank just means that the team never needs to LoS. Pick Warrior for superior damage and mitigation and learn to stand behind a wall to stack shit
uneven mason
DK tank literally meant that 5 or 6 utility checkboxes were filled
which is why they're meta
Snare-Grip-AE Mob control-ranged interrupt-stun
primal crypt
but sco said...
mild maple
Also I don't think it's fair to blame pugs for copying m+ 20 strats when they're running 10s. Yes the 20 tier players could take any comp and stomp a 10, but people strugging to pug 10s need that leg up. You can't blame them for avoiding "swimming upstream" even if it's just the perception if viability and not reality
uneven mason
OUR LORD SCO SAID WARRIORS ARE BAD (CAuse shield walling at 4% doesn't save you from dying)
sick sentinel
@mild maple no its not right
uneven mason
Except the reason why they're failing 10s has nothing to do with comp ๐
mild maple
Sco is very good at tanking raid bosses with no gear. Outside of that his expertise is suspect.
sick sentinel
becuase on 10+ you simply dont need this
mild maple
Yeah that's 100% true
But the reason top teams run a certain comp is because it's stronger
sick sentinel
on 20+ when every cc/slow/utylity makes you winner or looser, that makes diff
uneven mason
Its because it fullfills the required utility to push that level of content
sick sentinel
as prot warrior a lot of healers told me after dung
that was rly nice to heal warrior
uneven mason
PUG groups will not be using ANY OF THAT UTILITY
sick sentinel
because
mild maple
Now the argument that you can just GITGUD at a +10 instead of picking a meta comp is valid, unless you're bad and incapable of GITTINGGUD
uneven mason
heh
sick sentinel
compare to DK
primal crypt
also it's all about efficiency
sick sentinel
prot almost do not receive that massive dmg as dk
primal crypt
not having to LoS saves times
sick sentinel
but as prot warrior is also easy to kite
its also about being able to get away being shittier DPS when you can just ignore everything when you have bdk to faceroll everything for you and simplify things.
uneven mason
LIke my guild needed a tank last night for a 10, I was afk with kiddo bedtime
so they grabbed a 372 BDK
sick sentinel
BDK is best case scenario braindead pug player tank
mild maple
Prot kites kind of well, not dropping necrotic well without help though
uneven mason
because the BDK was a frigging idiot
sick sentinel
as well as being powerful in its own right in a skilled group.
you can leap/2 chargers to ur teammates who are casters and standing away
etc...
by the way
uneven mason
- meta tank +Bad player = BAD PLAYER
sick sentinel
but doesn't mean a skill prot warrior isn't powerful as well in the same skilled hands group.
its easy to see
mild maple
@sick sentinel Exactly, if you're in the group finder you're dealing with the lowest common denominator
sick sentinel
its just not braindead easy for the majority.
which is what they want.
Sense done 19+ as prot when DK make 20-21
mild maple
If you're a Prot Warrior and you want to push, build a group. Until the meta perception changes
mild maple
Make friends and get better together, like this is an MMO or something
sick sentinel
make your own dedicated group.
primal crypt
Pushing with pugs lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo
sick sentinel
i did 14s and 15s only with pugs
uneven mason
Doing high keys is 100% Knowledge+Team based
primal crypt
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
sick sentinel
and i got 1.4k
uneven mason
if you have a tea mthat works in concert with you, you can push high
sick sentinel
only pugs
so
more enjoyable that way anyway. why are you FORCING yourself?
lol
its not bad
mild maple
High keys with friends when you can build pulls around your comp and skill level and tweak your times/key level slowly is super rewarding
sick sentinel
ofc
but you can do same
by discord
and method dung tools
via discord
with good pugs
i have done it this way
mild maple
And honestly a pug can approach a real team if you're a selective asshole and don't just invite the first 4 idiots to queue
quasi mural
The meta and perception of warrior tanks is already changing. I see 10 of 50 of the top 50 timed M+ runs this week are prot warr now.
mild maple
like @sick sentinel says
sick sentinel
yea
knowladge
so if you play with pugs guys
always try to be good and nice to ppl ๐
uneven mason
@quasi mural that's because a ton of folks who have been sleeping at their keyboard playing BrMs have dusted off their warriors
sick sentinel
and show them true pros of prot warr ๐
uneven mason
when I explain that fucking our buffs were pretty small in the end
mild maple
Knowledge is only important for the tank, the DPS and heals just do what we tell them to anyway
๐ค
uneven mason
Knowledge to make timers on high keys
sick sentinel
yea
uneven mason
requires everyone to know the pulls
ahead of time
and have the knowledge of what to do if accidents happen
sick sentinel
exactly
mild maple
Unless you're pushing to be the top team on your server it's more or less on you as the tank to tell your group before each pull to CD or not and babysit their dumb asses
sick sentinel
nah
uneven mason
you don't stop to talk before each pull
uneven mason
you pull and CCs and shit are just rolling out as yo ugo
uneven mason
every 2 or 3 second "CC so and so" slows you down
mild maple
It's not like you can't tell them what you plan to do while the current pack is dying, I understand that for top teams it's not that way, but to be a middling-high-middling tank is to take responsibility for the other 4 players absolutely
uneven mason
I've missed timers by basically the length of my explination, or the time it took to deal with an extra heal going off hehe.
meh
uneven mason
I guess I Just don't group (a 2nd time) with folks who mouthbreathe and need to be told what to do.
outside of guild
sick sentinel
but bro
not everyone got a good guild
with someone who wants "waste" time for more then 10+
^^
uneven mason
๐
sick sentinel
in my i got a lot of people who just do one 10+ per week for weekly and thats it
rich silo
stat prio for prot? ๐
sick sentinel
Ilvl>secondary ๐
but overall
haste>vers=mastery>crit
but i got like 18% crit 10% haste 24% mastery 9% vers
stone crag
sick sentinel
on uldir with archive treit and treirts that gives you crit proc and trinket from new boss 390 with bonus crit stat on use, i reach like 40% crit ๐
astral crystal
throw up ravager for that sick damage/parry
sick sentinel
yea ๐
mild maple
I kind of wish the concept of your highest secondary getting superbuffed was more fleshed out and using trinkets to trigger higher vers or higher mastery depending on the situation was a thing
uneven mason
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/509789259822006272/unknown.png
DID SOMEONE SAY CRIT?
astral crystal
i mean it could be if you juggle your stat distribution
crystal creek
I was waiting for that.
mild maple
When did you Ravager?
astral crystal
it's just ass to do it
sick sentinel
lol nice ๐
uneven mason
had it on mastery the other night
using a 380 vial
55% Critical block OMNOMNOM
TBH I'm uh
I was getting tripped up in ULdir lastnight
cause I always had SB available
REzan's puts me at like, 58% Haste when it procs
started using other trinkets
mild maple
Blizz could have made the uldir +secondary thing really run if they had a trinket that let you shift through buffed secondaries on a 5-10second CD or something
uneven mason
except
folks want that control
most specs have a focused "Best" 2ndary (Haste for us)
although If I had a way to get vers
to be RA'd
I'd do it
25% flat DR
nothing to sneeze at
mastery either
some amazing IPs wit hthat much AP
mild maple
Don't you think that's cool as a tank though, a chance to shift your secondary from SB uptime to general DR on the fly
signal rune
with the armory change they moved away from straight DR things
except shield wall, fiery brand etc.
sick sentinel
for a while when I was poppin jes myy RoA would go vers
sick sentinel
if I didn't have the 600 haste proc from quick nav
sick sentinel
how to survive zul bleed 101
uneven mason
I survived 4stack zul bleed because I was the zen master of IP use
mild maple
I survived a 4stack cause I used zen med
mild maple
๐
uneven mason
Tanking 101 - roll BRM, put something on autofire to keep from afking out
be 81% efficient by not pressing anything
Like I told my RL - The only occasion BrM is actually going to make an impact once you're over the initial gear hump, is when the tank is too stupid to play anything else.
mild maple
Yeah BrMs ability to not die by fucking up is countered by it's inability to do anything else past initial prog
uneven mason
Folks keep confusing "Forgiving/Easy" with "Overpowered"
BDK is overpowered (for M+)
BrM is forgiving
Bear is Easy
(but not that great)
Prot warrior is just right
like warm porridge of the tank world
mild maple
The thing is "Forgiving" is OP for top 10 progression guilds doing thousands of pulls in the first week
vocal nimbus
stagger does virtually nothing against bleed tho
mild maple
The community doesn't understand that once you're a little past that in terms of gear the novelty isn't quite so relevent
vocal nimbus
so he HAD to use something to survive that
stone crag
so does armor, so does block
oblique garnet
Imagine focusing 16 hours on the first day of the release of new raid as a tank playing complicated class
junior igloo
Stagger does about 20 % against magic/bleed which is better than what most tanks have outside of big cooldowns.
mild maple
Imagine a world where Jaina's general attack next tier can't be staggered but can be blocked. I guarantee Method/Limit/etc will all switch to Bears ๐
vocal nimbus
wouldnt IP better (if you have enough rage through the bleed's duration)?
be better*
uneven mason
Yeah Monk is meta for a reason
you can autopilot and just worry about mechanics
survivability is passive
tight tree
BrM can also cheese with statue/port, and has way more fun and diverse kit for m+ ๐ฉ
mild maple
Monk has survivability and insane mobility
Why wouldn't you bring them
Also your tank can't fuck up playing a Monk
junior igloo
It would, but you don't have infinite rage, @vocal nimbus, that's like monks having infinite orbs to heal.
tight tree
I saved my raid tons of gold, time and runes by resetting bosses on wipes ๐งป
mild maple
๐
tight tree
Reason enough already
vocal nimbus
@junior igloo what about staying at melee right until the last couple seconds of the bleed? would a prot generate enough rage there? ๐ค
oblique garnet
Did you read that hunters cant reset ghuun and fetid anymore
mild maple
fun police
vocal nimbus
we were reseting it yesterday
tight tree
Buut mw or ww can do it as well
oblique garnet
Oh so that was just a rumor then? Thank fuck
plucky viper
tight tree
chicken ๐
uneven mason
So monks vs Bleeds DoTs etc folks forget they also gain an insane amount of extra healing through celestial fortune.
We don't have ANYTHING like that (Infact we're the only tank without bonus healing right?)
All in all, Prot is strong, but still has very little idiot proofing compared to other tanks
mild maple
make ๐ leggo ๐ wrists ๐ baseline
tight tree
well its ok to be weak at something, it just depends if you ok with only dps compensating for all your weaknesses
mild maple
leggo wrists would make me feel better about myself
junior igloo
@vocal nimbus
Is it in regards to Zul?
I just commented in general. We had a monk and a paladin tanking Zul on first kill (and DH kiting Crawgs) and I don't think we had any big tanking issues.
Paladin swapped to monk by the time we were on G'huun
uneven mason
that's about it
mild maple
that's one issue down
vocal nimbus
@junior igloo plain curiosity about a particular situation
uneven mason
@vocal nimbus yeah that is what warriors have to do for Zul'd bleed
You stay in melee
sit on DS/Avatar
when you leap out you continue to pump IP with the rage from DS/Avatar
rather you DS just as you leap out
tight tree
ip or not monk will always be way better for likes of Zul
uneven mason
"way better"
its not "way better" its a margin of forgiveness
which can be overcome with skill/gear
uneven mason
I didn't need externals even at 4 stacks on Zul, could have used them, but didn't feel (after the first kill) thati t was nessisary
I Mean
that bleed will still kill a monk
tight tree
You have good skill and healers, what can i say
tight tree
And bm is not that brainless in many situations
uneven mason
but the 65% additional healing
Well
Its more that you don't even have to think about your AM use
in 99% of situations
since its just "There"
VDH, Prot war, Paladin, BDK, Druid all have to consider resource cost/AM use
tight tree
Not DK
tight tree
marrowrend is as brainless as isb
crystal creek
Hmm few of the pieces in BfD have DC. Nice.
uneven mason
Morrowrend isn't their entire kit
they HAVE to use Deathstrike
Monks can literally never press purify
and be just fine
wild hamlet
Hey guys sorry to be that guy, is prot better now for 8.1 with IP of GCD? Less clunky etc.?
uneven mason
yes
tight tree
so is isb is not entite kit
uneven mason
But you're high 80% efficiency without any other part of your kit
BDK is pretty weak without using Vamp/DS
tight tree
you need to time purify just as you time ds
tight tree
well i do and its fun and i am more effective ๐
tight tree
i read fetid log
uneven mason
the gap between you being efficient
and a flipperhanded monkey pressing ISB on CD
is about 18%
tight tree
his healers are gods
tight tree
my healers are not ๐คฃ
rich silo
is talent s still the same for prot m+ or has it changed ?
tight tree
no changes
well they at least trying to do bosses that bust BM, like Varimatress or Zek
uneven mason
what hurts BrM on Zek?
tight tree
Pausing stagger on V was refreshing, kinda
modern brook
sometimes u get hit by the cricles when ur not at your key board
tight tree
i said they tried, not succeeded ๐
modern brook
Zek is the hardest brm fight becuz of that
uneven mason
Thats about all I could think
since you can eat an entire combo
but since stagger can't kill you
as long as theother tank taunts
you can't die
I had a BrM co tank in HC progression
and he'd drop to 1HP
and be fine while unhealable
cause stagger can't kill you
if they fixed that
+++
tight tree
well i had to stop watching netflix for that parts
uneven mason
But I don't want BrM to be nerfed tbh
I like that all the 10IQ tanks are in one spot
I know who t to avoid when pugging on my healer
modern brook
man
tight tree
burn
modern brook
monk being the monky class
tight tree
i made my guild prog easier, i take insults for it ๐
i will play any class if it help prog
oblique garnet
Imagine if stagger could kill you 8)
tight tree
so no point arguing.
uneven mason
Yeah hah sorry the meme is strong with me this morning
junior igloo
You can pick cooldown talents (Dampen Harm/Guard) and just Guard the the stagger that would otherwise damage you when you can't get healed.
mild maple
Imagine if Monk had real guard and real expel harm and was fun again
astral crystal
you know the funny thing about tanks is that we're pretty much the least impactful role when it comes to prog unless there's a spec specific cheese
tight tree
warrior better in new raid, i will go to warrior happily
modern brook
considering most tank mechanics are "press taunt" and "dont die"
uneven mason
we're no where close to OP
mild maple
Imagine if tanking was fun again
uneven mason
but we're probably equal to anyone but BRM right now
and BrM only because of that "forgiveness" range
oblique garnet
I refuse to play brm when the guild is not going to get to top10 world
final mist
In terms of Raids, I'd say we're better than anyone but BRM.
junior igloo
I mean yeah, when you see monks struggle on Zek'voz because they play High Tolerance, at least you can admire that they are self-critical enough to play a monk ๐
uneven mason
Situationally I'd agree with that Sal
mild maple
Careful Sal, talk like that too much and Blizz will buff Bears again
uneven mason
We're still low on the "cheese factory"
that is, our utility doesn't allow avoiding mechanics
but I don't think any of the other tanks have that in this new raid either
besides Paladin
and thats one charge of SPellwarding
uneven mason
DELETE YOUR TOON YAMO
tight tree
Good lol
uneven mason
too flipperhanded
primal crypt
damn it man
uneven mason
can't prot any more
primal crypt
I can't get it together man
crystal creek
No he needs us now more than ever.
primal crypt
help meee
uneven mason
that being said, wiped 6% on Mythic VEctis last night because folks got excited and didn't spread for contagion
I was irate
that fuck has my shield
oblique garnet
Well you yamorino now you have to go do a dungeon
uneven mason
OH and what is with them
crystal creek
ya don't waste the flask.
uneven mason
reudinc the # of runes in the tank bag for dungeons
primal crypt
I can't.... ๐ฆ
uneven mason
like
primal crypt
I'm working lol