fickle geyser
wish i had some
#protection
sick sentinel
Awesome, I got the helm from KR with a trait no longer as good after it was nerfed for arms
So. Happy.Now.
daring marlin
bitter willow
Hello. In the Wowhead prot warrior guide, "Correcting mistake" section, it says that block through Bolster will not work against some bosses when you need "active mitigation". During those moments, yuou need to shield block on top of Bolster. Could someone explain what that means, or give an example of such a mechanic? I thought block worked the same no matter its source (Shield block doesn't give dmg reduction, does it?)
sick sentinel
Shatter from Zek'Voz probably
it means that it will deal Physical damage that requires you to press Shield Block, basically
If it is true, its a matter of: "bad ability" --> press button or else
lusty grotto
it's not as common as you think @bitter willow
basically there's nothing in dungeons that fit into that criteria
it's just that bolster does not have a active mitigation flag, that's all
tulip pond
There's some bosses in-game with AM checks that require specifically Shield block for them despite Bolster giving you a preudo SB
I don't think BFA dungeons or Uldir have any
So far
lusty grotto
BFA bosses do not have it, that's correct
bitter willow
Alright. Thanks for hte info.
lusty grotto
Legion bosses did
lament mantle
What trinkets should I use. 385 Syringe. 355 blockades, or 365 Veiled Eye.
New to prot and can't determine what to use :/
lusty grotto
blockades syringe
lament mantle
Veiled eye not really useful for Prot?
lusty grotto
not at that ilvl
lament mantle
Roger, appreciate it boss.
lusty grotto
it could be situationally, but that depends on the damage you expect
broken roost
Does filthy transmutation hit multiple targets? /pray
broken roost
outer ring trait - 'drains' health from enemies
supple path
I believe it's single target? though not super confident.
broken roost
transfusion** not transmutation
Just don't really want to go 2x iron fortress but it's probably better, bleh
sand egret
if you want healing...have you met Our Lord And Savior, Impassive Visage?
raven pike
likely a noob question but what do the yellow and blue shields above my head in prot mean just rolled a prot warrior
raven pike
above character
broken roost
actually both my 385s have IF / Heed my call / resounding
thorn remnant
So how's prot feeling atm?
lusty grotto
at the moment? same as yesterday
thorn remnant
Okay.
prisma crane
AM checks feel like shit nowadays
and they get even shittier with stuff like bolster or in Legion with NF
since those dont count
lusty grotto
doubtful
primal crypt
I wouldn't want it either
open bluff
modern brook
sand egret
Yeah, I agree with Avalith. If it was a world where each tank didn't have 100% uptime, there's risks and therefore actual gameplay in that mechanic.
Conceptually, I love the idea of a specific tank mechanic that wasn't a) swap at X stacks b) run out of raid with debuff or c) pick up adds.
It just felt on those bosses a bit more gratifying when I had it up (played a DH for most of Legion so no 100% uptime on DS). Similiar to how Prot is currently, tbh. Can't just mong the AM button with little to no repercussions.
primal crypt
hmmm
stack two resounding protections
or have 1x protection and 1 impassive
๐ค
sick sentinel
I'd go for x2 protection personally
sick sentinel
I've had more success with protection than IV but I'm of course looking at this from a m+ pov. The heal is good but not enough where it has saved me or helped me if I make a mistake
It's why I dropped veins for rip and tear on my mother helm
lusty grotto
hmmm
does the week event reward shit of your raid level?
or just normal
because i could have sworn i got my shield through it and it's heroic
sick sentinel
I believe in legion it did but not 100% either
daring patrol
timewalking weekly has always been normal raid level
mythic dungeon weekly has always been heroic
lusty grotto
NO! this week is smash week!
sick sentinel
Now go do ur 5 tw like the mongrel u are and like it
This pachi slot of a game can't pay for itself
cinder nova
Thunderous Blast any good for DPS?
sick sentinel
Aside from being forced into the crack dens of slot machines, how is this week. In class ATM so I've only had time to open my pachi box of the week
cinder nova
sick sentinel
Didn't they Nerf it making most class traits rank higher in BM
Because I know it used to be bis for boomy but I don't think it is anymore
primal crypt
ran a few 12's
it's all about your dps this week
bunch of slowbro's
popping CD's and resetting the bursting
over and over
is self reliance any good?
anyone know
sick sentinel
Is that the heal whenever enemies are over 20 yards away
sick sentinel
Cause if it is, yeah its useful. After you beaten a the whole dungeon
primal crypt
lmao
sick sentinel
If it was 10 and not fucking 20, then maybe it'd have more than no use at all
sand egret
god dammit, got 385 IF shoulders.....but I really don't want to replace my 375 BFI/AV/IV shoulders...
ah well
supple path
Ah yeah, I ran into those shoulders the other day and was sad I couldn't wear them (shoulders being my DC slot).
sand egret
Me: I'm never joining a guild.
Another Bladesong whispers me:...
Guess who's in a guild now haha
vocal nimbus
me
sand egret
CoA rep is going account-wide in 8.1 right? I didn't just imagine that?
astral crystal
sand egret
it should be, I believe CoA is faction agnostic
shadow sequoia
I don't think it's gonna be account-wide, just the neck upgrades would be account wide. not sure tho
sand egret
yeah that's what i'm getting at
specifically the +ilvl boosts you get for Honored/Revered etc.
sand egret
IIRC in 8.1 your alts will get the +45 ilvl off the jump in 8.1
sick sentinel
Yes
elfin plume
if i spam ignore pain does the absorb stack up
sick sentinel
Only 2 times
sand egret
up to 1.3x the original
elfin plume
or it cancels it out
ah
i see
so i just it twice and then wait for absorb to burn through
then use aain
again
sick sentinel
Yes and no
sand egret
say you get hit for 100
elfin plume
not a defensive like shield wall
sand egret
it's a damage smoothing tool
elfin plume
ah okay
sand egret
as when combined with shield block
elfin plume
also why does shield block not block all melees
sand egret
that 100 turns into 15 on a crit block, then 7.5 damage goes to IP
sand egret
(assuming you have max block)
elfin plume
and if i use the last stand talent
sand egret
which i should probably clarify
sand egret
is 85% on a critical, you can't go above that
sand egret
Bolster means you effectively have Shield Block up for 15 seconds
so yes, its a waste
elfin plume
when youre min maxxing it is
sand egret
yeah ignoring the offensive component
outer dew
you press SB to use as a DPS increase for SS
sand egret
from a pure defensive standpoint, SB and LS (with Bolster) don't stack defensively
elfin plume
im not going to waste a defensive cd for more dps as tank
outer dew
it's not a waste though
sand egret
and prot, btw, has very high dps
outer dew
???
supple path
Kinda depends on "do you expect to need that defensive CD for something more important before its CD resets"
outer dew
you say you're aware
elfin plume
it is
outer dew
you should be dumping rage to push damage anyway
elfin plume
defensively
outer dew
you can overcap on IP
elfin plume
is it or is it not a defensive waste to use shield block and last stand at the same time
outer dew
the faster something dies the less chances you having gaps or pushing a boss to phase
supple path
It's a defensive waste, but you're really muddying this with the cleanly wrong stance on our dps.
sand egret
for your question: Last Stand gives you Shield Block with Bolster. Specific circumstances aside, you don't want to use Shield Block when LS is active defensively speaking
supple path
From a pure defensive PoV it is a waste, yeah.
elfin plume
you mean over cap rage?
sand egret
you can dup with IP
supple path
You have to use last stand at an aggressively bad time to overcap your shield block charges so hard you can use one and have it be back up before LS fades
elfin plume
yeah i know is charges
outer dew
IP has a cap
sand egret
dump with IP if you need to
elfin plume
it has*
sand egret
so
supple path
Or did you mean overcap on rage?
sand egret
your point is dumping
outer dew
i'm talking about shield block charges
yes, my point is if you're playing well. if it ends up you needed to pop LS because of a mechanic but ended up having +1 SB and about to get a second one
it's not terrible to put up SB
sand egret
EVEN if you overcap on a SB charge, defensively speaking you're still better off letting that SB sit if you have > 6 seconds left on your LS
outer dew
it helps push damage, you didn't lose much, and are pushing AM
supple path
You're speaking to a situation so fringe/rare that most of us probably won't have it happen even once before IP is off the gcd
elfin plume
if i cared about damage
sand egret
if you're speaking to AM, then using rage on IP even if its a waste is still better than using a charge because a) its a charge and b) it's more rage to dump
sand egret
you should care about damage btw
elfin plume
but it doesnt matter enough
elfin plume
that i should waste a big defensive on doing more dmage
outer dew
zzz
elfin plume
i know
its important
but
using a defensive to do more offensive is not worth in the long run
sand egret
but in your specific question, you would be fine to specifically get in the habit of not having them overlap. There will be times you should min/max but as you said, if you're new that isn't the time and place to bring that into the mix
supple path
That being an incorrect use of shield block doesn't somehow make your damage irrelevant. Warriors having stronger damage than the other tanks is one of the areas we make up ground on them.
elfin plume
no im not saying dps doesnt matter at all
outer dew
side note. HR/Devastator memes on Fetid is kind of enjoyable
elfin plume
but using defensive to have offense is not worth for me
oh yeah
if i use shield block on fetid
as off tank
do i block bite
sick sentinel
Keleseth don't agrued ive made this point as well, they won't listen
elfin plume
or no
sand egret
thrash and I believe so
outer dew
heavy repercussions
sand egret
heavy reprocussions
elfin plume
literally dinged this class 24 hours ago
sand egret
or however you spell it haha
outer dew
one SB will block 2x thrashes
outer dew
vs 1 sb per thrash
elfin plume
right
sand egret
the level 100 talent you wont pick 99% of the time
elfin plume
that makes sense
outer dew
like I said, that was indicated for Fetid off tanking
sand egret
yeah, but just making it clear to a newer player after all
elfin plume
and you have externals to chain
elfin plume
yeah i get it
outer dew
SB up makes thrash hit like a wet noodle
sand egret
^
elfin plume
thats true
but i mean like
if i dont use HR right
then i can SB
external
SB
external
last stand
SB
supple path
so you're using two externals in your first 10 seconds of tanking?
outer dew
wasting externals early is not good
elfin plume
not saying in the beginning
outer dew
esp when damage spikes at 50%
elfin plume
okay listen i know youre trying ot help but im not an lfr raider
i understand externals guys xd
outer dew
the point is, you never needed the external
elfin plume
but yeah i under HR then
sand egret
from our perspective, we get a lot of that then hear people rocking Indom....
so we're a bit skeptical, so dont take it personally
elfin plume
oh i was listing those externals and defensives while using anger manage
not heavy
sorry i should have been clear
i was saying like "why use HR if i can do this with AM"
outer dew
because HR will make it so you don't need an external off tanking
sand egret
afaik it's easier when played right based on that specific damage profile
but i defer to other on that
outer dew
and chances are if you're doing fetid, you'll be main tanking it
so AM will shine a lot more
elfin plume
right
that makes sense
and no i dont use indom
im not gay so i dont use the flexing guy
sand egret
๐ค
elfin plume
i fantasive about the girl in booming voice
should i never use revenge without the proc
outer dew
the niche case which won't often happen
sand egret
honestly, there are times you wished it DIDNt proc
outer dew
is that if you're overcapped on IP
sand egret
^
outer dew
you can dump rage via revenge
or if you're a mong like me
and press LS->Full Aoe DPS MONG
cinder nova
Holy shit why are the Forums so retarded.
sand egret
all the numbers
elfin plume
why do you go to forums dude
cinder nova
They think making rev generate instead of cost would buff
and think IP needs a fat buff on value
outer dew
lol
elfin plume
? ๐ค ?
cinder nova
It'd help, but it's not really an issue that's plaguing us
It's not even a bandaid fix
Doesn't help fix most of the major underlying issues with our spec as a whole
sand egret
technically would only help in specific circumstances, tbh
cinder nova
^
Like
The revenge one got me all fucked up
What the fuck would we meaningfully spend rage on
We're already flush with it and overcapping nearly every Ava
elfin plume
well warrior will be the best spec for a boss or two in BoD
thats the whole reason im gearing one
guild master said to have all tanks ready except DH
outer dew
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
sand egret
lol ew
outer dew
My trial atm is purely because i'm a prot warrior
elfin plume
hardcore is fun man
sand egret
yeah, i gave up that life
outer dew
you expected to have all those tanks prepped
sand egret
i get it, i just am not the person to do it
elfin plume
we're aiming for top 30 in BoD
sand egret
not anymore haha
sand egret
well, then I'd get this LS bizness down ๐
outer dew
lmao
elfin plume
yeah thats why i was asking about the defensive thing
sand egret
tbh, if you're gunning for top 30, you should really be considering how to max your offense
elfin plume
youre right
but
you have to weigh out
"is it really worth it to sacrifice defense for offense"
outer dew
what it comes down to is, once you're comfortable it doesn't matter with this discussion
elfin plume
if it is then yeah ima do it
but at the top end, there are most times that its not worth
sand egret
knowing that weight I guess is what will make you a better warrior
that comes with exp, but you're working on that ๐
sand egret
YEP
sand egret
gets awkward when I shift to my bear and get reall stingy on my IF's
since SB/IF are my same key
elfin plume
dps ๐คข
sand egret
prot gameplay is just too fucking fun
cinder nova
I wish they'd make MSR into a talent
outer dew
but atm it doesn't feel like balanace of your brews
sand egret
i don't mind brew, but something about prot feels better
outer dew
it's just reeeeeeeeeeeee ISB 100%
inland mesa
fathom's or rezan's eye for dps? only other trinket I have is disc
elfin plume
yeah well like
cinder nova
"Hey there's a bit magic AOE on the raid during this encounter, we should bring a prot for MSR that's good"
sand egret
@inland mesa ilvls?
outer dew
what ilvl is your rezans?
outer dew
pure dps, fathoms probably
outer dew
yeap
elfin plume
doesnt that blow dick
cinder nova
Where the fuck is that writeup on the new IP and how it isn't actually any different from an effectiveness standpoint from Legion?
sand egret
is there one?
inland mesa
i figured it was fathoms disc for the raw str, unless we think rezan's does better with the haste
sand egret
totally should be if not haha
outer dew
rezan's has a nice thing
where it adds a bit more survivaiblity
- rage gen
while also increasing damage
inland mesa
so fathom's rezan instead of disc?
outer dew
fathoms will be juicy on the perspective of raw damage
no
i'd rather Fathom/Disc or Rezan/Disc
disc at 385 is gonna give you more bang for your buck
cinder nova
@sand egret I remember a lot of people shitting their pants in anger over the changes to IP
sand egret
i'd personally take Rezan/Disc, but as the Warrior Formerly Known as Tofu said, haste does a lot under the hood for us
cinder nova
and Marok telling them it's basically the same we just don't have as much rage and the GCD lock also slows it down
If we could spam it like before it'd basically make no difference
And that having the DR at 50% makes it better for smoothing
sand egret
a post wont remove the rose-colored glasses mate
supple path
Or that our rage generation was sufficient to keep the 90% absorb up on a lot of content.
sand egret
and it's perty tough to get over the mental image of MILLIONS of units of IP
like, oh damn.
sick sentinel
NSCIP
supple path
Saying it's similar in effectiveness if you just factor out the 9 conflating factors that contributed to it being less valuable (rage gen, 90 vs 50 absorb, inability to pre-build it while not tanking, legendary that made it heal us too, off the GCD, and 4 different voltron lions) is one of those pedantically 'might be true, but grossly misleading/missing the point' statements.
elfin plume
prot warrior used to have uncapped ignore pain?
sick sentinel
No
sick sentinel
Shuuuu
elfin plume
mixed signals here
sick sentinel
Don't tell them
elfin plume
okay so it was uncapped
outer dew
we never had such a thing
elfin plume
but they changed it in bfa
supple path
Ayup.
elfin plume
because they nerfed fun
supple path
BfA is the hate fun expansion, yes.
elfin plume
(((and also the spec)))
i hate m+ because they took away speed sets
my dk
used to have 296% movespeed
supple path
Oh god yes.
sand egret
blizz also took our jorbs!
supple path
I used to switch to speed suit every time I dropped combat.
sand egret
THEY TOOK OUR JORBS
supple path
We also could instantly gain 2 extra charges of heroic leap by swapping in the legendary for it
elfin plume
i even went to stratholme
i farmed the sword
for 10% movespeed
i was so fucking fast
supple path
And aggramar's stride considered battlecry to be +100% crit for the purposes of determining speed.
So you could get truly ludicrous speed going in your speedsuit
cinder nova
@supple path But that isn't a function of IP, that's a tertiary benefit to using IP. It's power came strictly from it's constant and unshackled use. Manacles would produce such gross amounts of overhealing it was practically pointless.
supple path
My whole point was that there were a bunch of conflating factors that made it better in legion.
And that ruling those out just sort of misses the point of comparing the abilities.
cinder nova
But it wasn't any better than it was now.
supple path
Except...it was.
cinder nova
It wasn't?
supple path
You can say it was because other abilities MADe it better
But the end result was hitting IP was better
cinder nova
Nobody gave a shit about Manacles healing, it was pretty insubstantial even for progression fights.
elfin plume
what ar ethey changing in 8.1 for prot warrior
cinder nova
And dragon skin was literal RNG
elfin plume
besides IP off gcd
cinder nova
What changed was our rage generation and the GCD
sick sentinel
#BlocktheRock
supple path
Manacles healing was enough to bridge the 10% absorb gap from the 90%, meaning that it allowed us to indefinitely sustain vs content below a certain dps point
cinder nova
If neither changed, it wouldn't matter
supple path
which absolutely mattered in a ton of situations
supple path
Heroics and m+15 and lower were what 95% of the player base was doing
Just because it didn't matter as much in bleeding edge content didn't make it not matter.
cinder nova
It didn't even matter in most Mythic fights, and most "general players" are mongoloids.
elfin plume
in legion yes
sand egret
^ and those 95% experiencing that are the ones posting, btw
supple path
That's why I said "and lower"
Because it was still enough to sustain vs bosses in M+15
cinder nova
Basing an argument off the lowest common denominator is pretty absurd
elfin plume
are they chaning rage generation in 8.1 or
cinder nova
No.
sand egret
no, in changed into BFA
cinder nova
It changed into BFA and we lost our 2p.
supple path
Basing an argument off of saying abilities ONLY matter in bleeding edge content is also absurdly stupid.
elfin plume
besides ignore pain
sand egret
SB cooldown lowered
cinder nova
Doing Mythic isn't the bleeding edge.
elfin plume
by how much
sand egret
actually
cinder nova
Unless you're like
sand egret
hit the pins
cinder nova
doing it top 100
sand egret
all the changes are in the pins @elfin plume
supple path
And by the time most of the playerbase slid into stuff like Mythic garothi and dogs...shocker, the healing from manacles was still pretty useful because of how absurd our rage generation was at that point.
sand egret
plus like, a lot of info/answers you'll need
elfin plume
ye ty @sand egret
supple path
I mean, these were fights where I was #1 on the healing meters as a prot warrior. Manacles were about 15% of that
sand egret
for instance, that Last Stand question ๐
elfin plume
top 100 isnt bleeding edge either
cinder nova
But it wasn't.
elfin plume
bleeding edge is 7 days a week
cinder nova
The overhealing didn't justify half the DPS options you had.
steel mauve
and manacles were like 85%+ overhealing too
elfin plume
etc etc
sand egret
if you ain't taking time off work to raid, you aint in the bleeding edge lol
elfin plume
exactly
supple path
Half the dps options we had? We didn't exactly have many dps legendaries.
It was basically sephuz + gloves + belt.
cinder nova
I only used manacles for one clear of Mythic Imo and that's because our healers were parsing so we were down a few and I didn't trust the shifty bastards.
elfin plume
or you arent in the bleeding edge unless your guild says youre not allowed to stream raids
supple path
Sephuz straight didn't work on half the fights in antorus, and belt wasn't that impressive on single targets.
cinder nova
Belt was better than bracers ST lol
sand egret
I kinda wanna bomb this +11 SotS key real quick....
primal crypt
that's how you get world first
steel mauve
belt was the only damn one i didnt get -.-
cinder nova
Like, if you needed bracers to prop you up, what the fuck are you doing.
sand egret
and I know imma get monged on droplets
supple path
Killing things with zero external healing required, generally was what I liked them for.
elfin plume
@primal crypt nah youre in bleeding edge if youre literally not allowed to stream guild raids
because strats
sand egret
he was making a method joke
sand egret
np ๐ข ๐ต ๐
elfin plume
limit btw ?XD
cinder nova
So, you mean again, entirely inconsequential content
sand egret
they just signed a esports deal with GNC, wouldn't be surprised if they stream this time around
elfin plume
wasnt mannoroth bracers only good for fury
cinder nova
If we went into BFA with the same level of rage and no GCD on IP nobody would've batted an eye.
elfin plume
method signed?
sand egret
Limit
cinder nova
Even if we lost our legendaries
elfin plume
oh limit
cinder nova
Even the traits
cinder nova
The fact you could spam it is what was so overwhelming
supple path
This argument is literally without any actual merit, ugh.
sand egret
i wouldn't be surprised considering the numbers they put up
supple path
The whole point of mentioning the legendary was as one more thing that made IP better in legion
cinder nova
If we could spam it again, it'd make no difference.
But none of the legendaries interacted with IP
supple path
Just because you feel like using a legendary that added ~15% to IP's effective healing wasn't worth it on mythic raids
doesn't mean it didn't exist
sand egret
prob not, but it'll be good to have more streaming (and maybe we'll see Max play Prot)
cinder nova
Because it wasn't.
supple path
jesus christ you are COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT
elfin plume
isnt max a dk main
supple path
It's not about comparing legendaries, it's about the tools that were available for IP back in legion.
elfin plume
wait sorry that was dumb
severe pond
@elfin plume My warrior on M Fetid, Just few externals
elfin plume
he has all the tank xd
sand egret
everyone is in BFA
cinder nova
The only major tool was the 2p
sand egret
lol
cinder nova
:???:
Once we lost it and got a GCD everything upended
We slowed the fuck down
if that didn't happen nobody would care about the change to IP mit %
elfin plume
@severe pond ye i mean i wouldnt spam externals unless i have 0 gear but ty mate
actually useful
supple path
You're basically just saying, "of the 5 major factors that made IP better in legion, one was more important"
cinder nova
There wasn't even 5 major factors
It was 2
And one of those was removed
Just now
elfin plume
didnt prot warriors kinda blow in antorus
cinder nova
No.
supple path
Our rage generation. 90% vs 50%. Off the GCD. A lack of cap meaning we could start tanking with an absorb 2x our hp pool. And legendaries which enhanced it.
steel mauve
blocking/crit blocking was op on agg and argus
elfin plume
idk i was on dudu duty
cinder nova
The 90% vs 50% argument's already been debunked, though. The difference in value compared to HP now is really no different and the 50% actually improves smoothing.
If we could spam current IP as much it'd be bonkers
soft kindle
antorus was prot's best raid after EN
supple path
Except it was ALSO off the GCD so you could reactively apply an absorb to prevent a lot of fatal situations.
cinder nova
And that changed in 8.1
elfin plume
oh wait
soft kindle
compared to what came after
steel mauve
we were op in en then got nerfed
steel mauve
IP was rediculously op in EN
cinder nova
Cast for cast IP is just as good now as it was then
elfin plume
there was a lot of physcial damage in ther
supple path
ugggghhhh
And we're at full circle where it's back to the thing I initially said - which is that you have to ignore all the surrounding factors.
But either way, pointless discussion.
cinder nova
I mean... you can talk about all the tertiary stuff which, by the way, still didn't matter because it's not what made IP good as a defensive ability
It was just extra effects
elfin plume
just play the game guys, the only thing that matters is youre having fun! :4Head:
cinder nova
None of them, sans Dragon Skin, actually impacted IP's behavior in any way
supple path
It's already viable. It'll be better.
elfin plume
it will be the best tank on at least one boss
cinder nova
Aren't we already best tanks for Zek?
sand egret
hmm Cen, I give you a B+ for that answer
elfin plume
DK is best zek tank
sand egret
solid, to the point
elfin plume
in uldir
sand egret
Kel, too specific
cinder nova
How so
elfin plume
7 bosses are double monk
elfin plume
1 boss is 2 dks
cinder nova
???
sand egret
Swole, not a bad response, but will lead to a lot of follow-up
elfin plume
it doesnt even exist as dk
cinder nova
You can ignore mechanics as a prot warrior
sand egret
overall, pretty good responses
elfin plume
on dk you can ams the voidlash damage
cinder nova
LS and IP
sand egret
6/10
elfin plume
and you can ams the debuff
cinder nova
One of two
elfin plume
it will not apply at all
sick sentinel
We fucking suck
elfin plume
yes 1 of two
sick sentinel
Play a dk
cinder nova
Still less than ideal to be getting slapped in the face with a 50% MS
sand egret
10/10
sand egret
now that is a response!
cinder nova
Method also has Sco
sick sentinel
Damn
sick sentinel
Eh
cinder nova
y i k e s
sick sentinel
I'm a good tank
sick sentinel
As is that lfr player
cinder nova
Literally anyone that can play a FOTM class competently can pick up his spot
steel mauve
but, the debuff is inconsequential, you arent tanking when you have the healing debuff applied, and you cant tank with the shatter ddebuff, so ignoring a healing debuff while STILL being unable to tank is kind of moot
elfin plume
regardless of what you think of sco
he is a good player
if he wasnt good then he wouldnt be in method
sick sentinel
He's a good player yes, not a good tank
sick sentinel
Big difference
elfin plume
using the FOTM argument is not valid
cinder nova
That's a really, really long-reaching connection.
steel mauve
sco's kind of an idiot though
elfin plume
any top guild worth their salt uses the best tank spec
cinder nova
Just because someone is in a prestigious position doesn't mean they're as competent or as worthy of it as you may imagine.
elfin plume
its common sense
elfin plume
i dont think he's great
primal crypt
YUPPPP
elfin plume
but he's a good tank
sick sentinel
Nah stay
cinder nova
I wouldn't say that.
elfin plume
if he wasnt good then he wouldnt have multiple world firsts
sick sentinel
U ain't fucking leaving u shits @sand egret @primal crypt
sand egret
hmu back when prot is viable in 8.1 comes up again
cinder nova
Considering he can't even use google to make a tank tier video properly kinda points to his mental faculties.
sick sentinel
U stay and endure
sand egret
lol noooope
cinder nova
Take the top BDK/Monk and I guarantee he can take Sco's spot ez
cinder nova
Dude he can't even clear Mythic Uldir on his warrior
exotic tiger
sloot is a better tank than sco don't @ me
elfin plume
when you play a certain class nonstop for 1 week
steel mauve
i mean he also makes ranking videos while quoting wrong spec talents, and inaccurate information
primal crypt
oh my, look at the time
cinder nova
Also ```but, the debuff is inconsequential, you arent tanking when you have the healing debuff applied, and you cant tank with the shatter ddebuff, so ignoring a healing debuff while STILL being unable to tank is kind of moot
but i wouldnt say he's bad at tanking overall
cinder nova
Back to this
If warriors are taking less damage and dealing more damage on that fight
Why bother with a BDK other than a grip bot
elfin plume
because blood is objectively better than prot
elfin plume
yes for zek
100% for zek
wdym
blood dk can immune an antihealing mechanic
they can mass grip
cinder nova
Literally read the note above
elfin plume
ranged interrupt
ranged stun
self healing
better mitigation overall because its a magic damage intensive fight
elfin plume
not on zekvoz it wont
soft kindle
aoe interrupt when you cc two of the casters?
cinder nova
Yeah on zekvoz
steel mauve
so with a dk you taunt after the first lash, then the dk taunts after shatter for a 2 taunt combo to ignore the anithealing mecahnic?
elfin plume
no not on zekvoz
cinder nova
Dude show me numbers
soft kindle
ranged interrupt*
cinder nova
Show me literally any parse
but, the debuff is inconsequential, you arent tanking when you have the healing debuff applied, and you cant tank with the shatter ddebuff, so ignoring a healing debuff while STILL being unable to tank is kind of moot
elfin plume
parses dont matter
cinder nova
parses don't matter 4hed
elfin plume
the arguement is what tank is better
cinder nova
Numbers don't matter
elfin plume
parses dont make the difference
cinder nova
numbers don't matter
steel mauve
but you always get shatter, and you cant tank with shatter debuff, so ignoring the antiheal debuff literally is pointless if you cant make use of the fact you dont have it because of shatter
surreal stump
LMAO
cinder nova
What is this
elfin plume
why didnt people take warriors for zekvoz
sick sentinel
Nightmares
cinder nova
BECAUSE NOBODY KNOWS HOW TO PLAY A WARRIOR
elfin plume
why did every guild in the top 40 take double dk
cinder nova
And because Sco said they're bad
sick sentinel
Also
elfin plume
every tank
sick sentinel
Sco
elfin plume
in the world
cinder nova
And nobody geared it
supple path
Because if you're slightly better on fight 3 but are worse on fights 1,2, 4, 5, no one cares.
cinder nova
but he can't clear it with his warrior? ๐ค
supple path
Not enough to gear/roll up the alts anyhow.
elfin plume
because he is bad at warrior
cinder nova
But that's not the argument, Cen
cinder nova
The argument is if warrior is best for a fight over other tanks
primal crypt
oh yikes
elfin plume
i can still play druid to an acceptable level
cinder nova
Not all fights
exotic tiger
I've seen several streams of top tier warriors using last stand with bolster, and still blowing SB charges
hth
elfin plume
if warrior is the best
primal crypt
tag me when we're talking about cupcakes
elfin plume
on ANY fight
the top guilds
WILL
100%
take double warrior
if theyre not
then they wont
that is it
cinder nova
I mean they take less damage on Ghuun than any other tank and can SR the corruption
supple path
Uh yeah, what's your point Swole? I was responding to why you may not have seen warriors on that fight even if they were better.
cinder nova
Limit also brings one to clear almost every week
elfin plume
yeah
cinder nova
You're talking about warrior being better than other tanks on any fight.
elfin plume
wat
elfin plume
bro
you started this conversation
with you saying warriors being best tanks on zek
now we're on all bosses
i dont understand
theres one guy
ONE guy
on US servers
top 50 guild i think
cinder nova
[5:34 PM] Swole Patrol: Aren't we already best tanks for Zek?
You said BoD, but we're already the best tank for Zek.
cinder nova
Except all you're saying is "BDK is better because guilds use it"
elfin plume
YES
cinder nova
Not because any numerical value
cinder nova
If both tanks can survive fine why bring the lower DPS
cinder nova
Especially if the higher damage tank can take less damage.
cinder nova
That doesn't mean anything we already established that.
elfin plume
yes it does
cinder nova
You barely take any damage on MotV anyway
supple path
I mean in fairness it's not like warriors require much healer attention while being 100% heal immune.
cinder nova
You tanking Zek with shatter on mate?
elfin plume
where it actually matters
cinder nova
๐ค
elfin plume
dude
below top 100 you can use any tanks
and do just fine
above that is where tank comp matters
thats the subject of discussion
supple path
There are compelling reasons a guild may have avoided a warrior early on that has nothing to do with a warrior's abilities on zek'voz itself. So making the full scope of your argument "guilds didn't take it" isn't compelling.
elfin plume
guilds dont take it because it wasnt as good
now with gear its different sure
but when it mattered they didnt take it because dk was better
cinder nova
Except... I barely dip under 80% from the combo and I still can crank out way more damage than a BDK, and Zek is very much a DPS-check fight with how quickly you can push adds and focus boss.
exotic tiger
if we're talking about WF progression, having an actual warrior levelled up and geared while fighting for world first is a valid reason why you say BDK over warrior
elfin plume
if your dps isnt doing the damage to phase then boss then you need to get new dps
exotic tiger
how many top guild tank players had a warrior ready to go?
cinder nova
Probably less than half.
elfin plume
all top guilds tanks
final mist
Guild's didn't take a Warrior becuase WF prog for tanks is about consistency. You know what's consistent? *Stagger.
elfin plume
have all classes ready
cinder nova
Got me there.
exotic tiger
Take sco as an example, he levelled his warrior AFTER uldir was clear
cinder nova
I'll even point out that WF doesn't mean the tank is best for a fight. It means a tank is best for WF progression not for a given fight's needs to end it quickly and effeciently.
elfin plume
limit tanks had theirs
i think fatsharkyes had warrior tanks
it is the best at a base level
more utility
less babysiting
the antihealing is what fucks warriors
cinder nova
What are you doing on Zekvoz that needs a healer to handhold you?
Honestly, let's answer that question first.
elfin plume
if you can immune
elfin plume
an antihealing debuff
cinder nova
He means the MS buff.
elfin plume
its better
sand egret
run away Nim
cinder nova
from MotV
elfin plume
than not immuning it
sand egret
run the fuck away
cinder nova
Nah Nim's in it
lusty grotto
;D
cinder nova
he's in it now
lusty grotto
hpal though
exotic tiger
here's the conclusion: Warriors are better on Zekvoz now gear is a thing but not better for progression
sand egret
I went on a limb and brought one in to my key....
sand egret
here we go Nim
elfin plume
i wouldnt say better
lusty grotto
yikes
sick sentinel
Man this is the fucking best
elfin plume
but dk doesnt beat them by a mile anymore
lusty grotto
dk was never better in raid settings
lusty grotto
๐คท
i think the question is why are we dicussing WF choices
are any of you guys in WF guilds?
elfin plume
because tank comp only matters at top end
primal crypt
obviously we're all bleeding edge here