protection

[primal crypt]

Won't spawn on ccd adds my ass

[amber siren]

yeah, they've not supposed to spawn on cc'd mobs anymore but we constantly had issues with orbs spawning through polymorphs, shackles, hexes, paralyses

[ember arrow]

i remember we pulled the miniboss in votw

we kileld orbs for 1 minute

orbs spawned orbs

non stop

from 1 miniboss

[primal crypt]

Lel

[amber siren]

yeah that's not supposed to happen anymore

[ember arrow]

then we pull 10 dudes

no orbs

ok

[amber siren]

But heavily emphasis on the supposed

[primal crypt]

Supposed

Best hotfix

[ember arrow]

"this isnt suppsoed to happen idk"- Bliz

[sweet kettle]

i did freehold hunter traps add insta ball spawn LIKE WTF IS THIS

[primal crypt]

I still hear my hunter in discord

After the fix

He's watching his trap and two explosives spawned

[final mist]

It was happening to me last night too.

Just blame it on the spaghetti.

[primal crypt]

He's like uhhhhhhh guys?

Laughing so hard

@final mist spagat you say

[sweet kettle]

somebody go touch their spaghet cause this shit is crazy

[ember arrow]

@primal crypt

[primal crypt]

Lol

[ember arrow]

real quote

[primal crypt]

Left field

Lol'd actual

Fucking einstein

[ember arrow]

now its good

[primal crypt]

Now it's perfect

Einstein knows his stuff

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah explosives were still spawning on cced enemies. At least the hp was dropped 😭

[ember arrow]

finally they dropped hp at least

[scarlet basalt]

Still tough with teeming though and fortified

[ember arrow]

no reason for orbs to have more than 1 hp in my opinion

i remember in legion

[scarlet basalt]

It's crazy that explosives are affected by fortified

[ember arrow]

on 25+

u needed 3 sec ST dps

to kill one

[scarlet basalt]

Dang lol

[ember arrow]

they should have 1 hp

so that u still switch

but everyone's ST abiltiy can kill em

[scarlet basalt]

I saw people talking about how maybe 1 orb should spawn and have hp based on how many adds you are fighting

[ember arrow]

well

that owuld be too easy i think

orbs now spawn randomly, so sometimes u get 1 orb on 5 adds

they should spawn based on the amount of mobs

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah, but as soon as they fix the cced spawns orbs it won't be as stressful

It's supposed to be at least 1 for each mob but like you said randomly

[ember arrow]

i told few min ago, but i had once time in votw

1 minute of orbs killing

from 1 miniboss

[scarlet basalt]

Dang lol

[ember arrow]

or when the images of vandros spawned orbs

or whatever his name was

last boss cos

[scarlet basalt]

So when should I be using Shield wall in dungeons?

Really big pulls?

[vocal nimbus]

every 2-3 packs

usually

[ember arrow]

if you keep your cds more than 10 seconds

you should reevaluate your pulls

at least thats what i learned

[vocal nimbus]

i usually pop shield wall to have an easier time picking up aggro before kiting

[ember arrow]

idk about warriors, but on bdk you pull big --> recharge --> big

[cloud bone]

I tend to chain pull alot

just go from pack to pack without stopping

[ember arrow]

recharge = pull small for cds to recharge

then pull all the things with cds

[uneven mason]

Same

stack SW + LS

pull big

then pull small

until SW is back up

(which is ever other pull in theory)

did KR 10 lastnight

I'm pretty sure that counts as M+ Stage 4 cancer

[signal plover]

That pull after the entomb boss was spicy

[uneven mason]

Yeah

[signal plover]

(hey let's add 4 mobs)

[uneven mason]

2 deadly ones

[signal plover]

(give that guy a promotion)

[uneven mason]

I fucking got aggro on brute and berserker and booked it

CC'd the 2 hex

just kept running

[signal plover]

We had one shackle that's it

[uneven mason]

had rogue (sap and blind)

[signal plover]

Also, can't see the brute's aoe stomp graphic on stairs

[uneven mason]

hence why I kited down to the boss room

and then the bridge

then back

[signal plover]

Ya that's a solid idea

We thought we could burninate

We were mistaken

[oblique garnet]

We just saved bl for that pack

[signal plover]

We had BLd the boss cuz lol

I mean I'll do one or two 10-13s per week and had 2 alts with us

Max meme run

[tender thistle]

380 G0-4W4Y Crowd Repeller w/ socket or 385 Vector Deflector?

[oblique garnet]

385

[scarlet basalt]

What should my ilvl be for mythic? I don't recall 😭

dungeon I mean

[ember arrow]

I did em at 275

Depends on group

[scarlet basalt]

Guildes aren't on so I'm getting declined

[ember arrow]

Whats yo ilvl

[scarlet basalt]

312 lol

[ember arrow]

Hmm thats plenty

[scarlet basalt]

I know the dungeons though since my warrior is only an alt

[dusk locust]

pugs are going to take whatever the highest ilvl thing is that signs up. 312 is more than fine for a mythic +0 though

[scarlet basalt]

Do you guys take storm bolt for m+?

[dusk locust]

yeah

[scarlet basalt]

I was reading around and I saw that it was better than whatever the other talent was

[dusk locust]

it's arguably a personal preference thing. i like storm bolt

[eager hedge]

How much haste are people rocking? Im wondering if i should keep going haste, as im already at a solid 1500 rating, feels pretty good as is. Maybe worth hitting softcap for vers before DR hits?

[ember arrow]

what softcap

[dusk locust]

far as i'm aware, there is no point at which you would target something other than haste

but always equip higher ilvl pieces

[ember arrow]

vers has no DR righT?

[eager hedge]

12.5% and dr starts, no?

[ember arrow]

u cant reach a point where u got 80 % DR

in bfa u equip ilvl

[eager hedge]

12.5%/6.25%

[ember arrow]

i mean

15% vers

is 7.5% DR

30% is 15 % DR

i dont think it gets reduced

source?

[eager hedge]

by DR i dont mean damage reduction 😂

[ember arrow]

neither do i

whats the source?

im saying that the damage reduction is half ur versa

and there arent any diminishing returns on it in that sense

[vocal nimbus]

vers doesnt have diminishing return as far as i know

[eager hedge]

I was lead to believe there was a DR applied after you reached 12.5%/6.25%, so you couldnt just stack infinite vers as tank

[ember arrow]

from where do u have that?

because i dont think thats how it works, youre the first one to bring this up

[eager hedge]

Just something ive been told throughout legion by random tanks. No source or anything, hence why im asking

[ember arrow]

random tanks

oof

same ppl who spec HR

[eager hedge]

Well, enough of them making me wonder 😄

[dusk locust]

lol well doesn't mean it's wrong 😛 i haven't heard that myself either though

[ember arrow]

it was neve rmentioned by any TC

as far as i know

[scarlet basalt]

Think I could do a +2 motherlode with 312 ilvl 😆

[ember arrow]

yea

[dusk locust]

absolutely

[soft kindle]

There's no DR on Vers

[ember arrow]

there is DR, but no DR

[soft kindle]

Just to confirm

oh, fuck you

😛

[ember arrow]

[soft kindle]

[dusk locust]

hahah this is why i hate acronyms

[scarlet basalt]

Stam flask is pretty useless right?

[ember arrow]

yea

my info is 2 months out of date

so unless that changed

yes

[soft kindle]

Only time to ever take a stam flask as a tank is if you're getting one shot by something

and that's usually a gear issue

[scarlet basalt]

I think these people are leaving because of my gear 😭 and warrior tank

[ember arrow]

i mean

i leveld pala at 280

in pugs

ppl left because

lol 280

???????????????

in m+3

[scarlet basalt]

Lol are you serious

[ember arrow]

yea

[oblique garnet]

healer?

[ember arrow]

i wanna gear fast

healer was a buddy

had to pug 2 dps

[oblique garnet]

oh you were tank?

[ember arrow]

yes

[oblique garnet]

Yeah i would have left too

[ember arrow]

uhh

its like

braindead easy

[oblique garnet]

i know

but if i see 280 tank

[junior igloo]

I'm also not aware of any diminishing returns.
Secondary stat budget scaling is low enough that high numbers are not achievable

[oblique garnet]

im not taking my chances that its a good player

[ember arrow]

fair enough, but yea my friend group did m0 at fresh 120 at start

was np

kinda curious

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah if you know your stuff than I don't see gear being that much of an issue

Maybe unless you're dps

[ember arrow]

ofc it is at some point

[fickle urchin]

am i correct in assuming we should aim for crit highest in uldir for RA for crit -> parry?

[ember arrow]

incorrect

you aim for haste

if u can choose

[dusk locust]

at that point it's just math. 280 in a +0 feels like whatever higher key at ilvl 370

[ember arrow]

otherwise

u take ilvl

[dusk locust]

i imagine

[fickle urchin]

why haste, wouldnt 8% extra parry be nice?

[oblique garnet]

No

[ember arrow]

im sure meiffert will give a more eloquent response

[junior igloo]

You don't have to worry about that, @fickle urchin
All stats provide defensive benefits and are well balanced, any stat receiving RA buff will be fine

[fickle urchin]

ok thanks

[ember arrow]

there we go

parry is still rng

[fickle urchin]

i m way higher haste, was worried id have to collect a crit set for tanking

[ember arrow]

while haste speeds up rotation, so, even while the difference is minor, haste is a constant benefit

how cute @fickle urchin thinks you have to think about gear in bfa

imagine that

making decisions in bfa

[fickle urchin]

you do as dps

[ember arrow]

what decisions?

u sim

what is bigger number

[fickle urchin]

right ok, yeah, you have to sim.

to me that means caring about gearing right

[ember arrow]

well yes, but diff sets is smt like avoidance sets

[fickle urchin]

if you dont, you ll lose your raid spot to someone that does, baring factors like nepotism etc 😃

[ember arrow]

or speed sets

i had few of those in m+ in legion

good times

[fickle urchin]

ah right

[ember arrow]

but that was too intense

u needed an addon for that according to forums

even though its a vanilla ui feature

[lusty grotto]

haste is king on equal ilvl gear, otherwise you go straight for higher ilvl

[fickle urchin]

oh btw, do temporary buffs like trinket procs effect what stat is buffed by RA?

[lusty grotto]

all secondaries are pretty close, so you shouldn't only have haste pieces

[oblique garnet]

Yes they do

[ember arrow]

if it's higher ilvl on offset pieces, equip it
if it's more than 5 but dropping socket, equip it
if it's more than 5 on rings for haste/versa over crit/mastery, equip it
if it's more than 15 and dropping socket on rings, equip it
if it's more than 20 and dropping socket and dropping bis stats on rings, equip it
if it's 15 on azerite and you have at least one trait on higher ilvl piece, equip it
if it's 30 on azerite, equip it @junior igloo this is for bdk, how accurate is this for prot?

[oblique garnet]

So lets say you get a crit proc of 700 and it pushes over your rating you will gain RA based on that

[ember arrow]

should be pretty close i think?

[fickle urchin]

i have a choice between 385 callous replisal shoulders with shitty middle and inner, vs bloodsport 375 shoulders, with gemhide azerite veins. I m gonna stick with the 375 I think.

[lusty grotto]

that's an overly complicated way of saying ilvl > all except on around 5-10 ilvl rings

[ember arrow]

people want specific info

😃

but i just copypasted

[lusty grotto]

i don't understand how that is more specific than ilvl > all

🤷

[ember arrow]

because its not same on rings as on armor

also socket plays a role

[lusty grotto]

do you have DC @fickle urchin ?

[junior igloo]

Socket is worth something, depends on slot.
For Azerite pieces getting DC and RA is very strong, worth losing 30 item levels.

[ember arrow]

i dont think gemhide is as good as ppl make it seem

unpopular opinion

the avoidance part is often wasted for instance

[oblique garnet]

Id take IV over it any day tbh

[ember arrow]

although it is applied on the hit that proced it

[fickle urchin]

yes 375 chest DC, 385 archive with dps middle, the choice is for shoulders only. 385 callous reprisal with shitty inner and middle, vs 375 bloodsport gemhide azerite veins. @lusty grotto

[lusty grotto]

have you read the Icy Veins azerite trait part @fickle urchin ?

what is the ranking for traits there?

[oblique garnet]

Take the 385

[lusty grotto]

but yes 385 since ilvl > all

[oblique garnet]

With the exception of DC

[junior igloo]

As far as secondaries go, it's somewhat situational.
For off-tanking Fetid, you can maybe drop a few item levels to avoid crit (because Thrash can't be parried), but for general purpose gearing I don't have a preference (even haste is "only" equal to other stats in my opinion, which might be slightly unpopular)

[fickle urchin]

callous does almost nothing for mitigation.

[lusty grotto]

but the armor you gain does

and the str

and the stam

[fickle urchin]

bloodsport isnt great either, but come on, 2 good minor powers have to outwiegh 10 ilvls and no good minor powers

[lusty grotto]

no

that is only true for DC

and its around 45 ilvls

[ember arrow]

guys i got a serious question

hows 8.1 lookin

[lusty grotto]

and of course in Uldir you want RA so it's true for Archive

[ember arrow]

in general, not warrior specific

[scarlet basalt]

dang it kicked us mid instance

[oblique garnet]

In general? Looks promising

[ember arrow]

wil bfa get out of beta?

finally?

[oblique garnet]

Probably

[fickle urchin]

the ilvl differnce on those shoulders is 22 armor and 42 str.

[oblique garnet]

Basically reverting most of the shit they changed for bfa

[lusty grotto]

8.1? you mean Smash on Switch right?

[ember arrow]

why is 8.1 coming out?

we got phones

dont we

[fickle urchin]

you telling me that little str and armor is better than having both azerite viens and gemhide? vs not having them?

[lusty grotto]

yes alx

[junior igloo]

@fickle urchin
Stamina is actually the biggest defensive benefit of item level

[ember arrow]

yes

[fickle urchin]

85 stam

ok that might be worth it

[junior igloo]

But I'm not sure how much middle/inner rings are worth to be fair, I can look at it

[ember arrow]

sim it

oh wait

[lusty grotto]

i disagree

armor is the biggest defensive gain

[ember arrow]

i think

combined

big brain

[junior igloo]

nah, armor is a bit weak this expansion

[fickle urchin]

its 22 armor, vs 2 good minor powers, if armor is all you are looking at, and gemhide alone is way more armor.

[lusty grotto]

time for math

[fickle urchin]

gemhide gives 222 armor if you take a 10% hit.

[ember arrow]

azerite u eq highest ilvl except for RA or DC

[fickle urchin]

so armor is right out, as an argument for taking the 385

wait, its 32 armor, but same same

[lusty grotto]

traits are situational and are added on top of your stats

[ember arrow]

10% hit isnt necessarily deadly

[lusty grotto]

the more stats you have the better traits are

[ember arrow]

u could have dps trait

instead

to contribute more

instead of reducing a minor hit to minor -0.1

[fickle urchin]

i m already running dps helmet for RA (with dps middle ring because I main as dps)

[ember arrow]

whats a dps ring

[fickle urchin]

gutripper in this case

[ember arrow]

u make it sound like there is different gear

oh

dps trait

but as long as u dont have big trouble surviving

u shud ha ve dps traits

no point going turtle

tanking is going as little surv as possible and still being able to tank comfortably, focusing otherwise on doing dmg

[fickle urchin]

fine i ll use the 385 shoulders

[junior igloo]

@fickle urchin
You can use my spreadsheet if you want (for defensive purposes only): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1smbwHlquHKQpl-rJ1i3xvArHcgW681bppCZCF5zB6MI/edit?usp=sharing
(fill in yellow cells to fit your character)

One thing to consider as well is that higher item level Azerite pieces have stronger Azerite traits (as in same trait gives bigger benefit at higher item level)

[lusty grotto]

what do you mean dps helmet for RA

laser matrix you mean?

[fickle urchin]

no i meant i v chosen a dps middle ring trait

over a tank one

[ember arrow]

traits arent restricted to a spec are they?

[lusty grotto]

shrug

[junior igloo]

He probably means Gutripper on Mother helm 😃

[fickle urchin]

exactly

[lusty grotto]

i mean i run gutripper too

[ember arrow]

at this point you shold have no surv issues

[fickle urchin]

i could have azerite viens on that "slot"

[lusty grotto]

mid ring traits aren't required

neither are inner

🤷

[fickle urchin]

i ll give the spreadsheet a looksee, thanks @junior igloo

[lusty grotto]

they help, but since they are situational, they aren't as important

[fickle urchin]

nothing situational about gemhide as an example

[lusty grotto]

you have to get hit for 10% of your health

[fickle urchin]

thats just flat out 230 or so more armor.

[lusty grotto]

that's situational

the more your stam grows, the less likely that will trigger

the more armor you have, less likely as well

[fickle urchin]

just fight harder shit then, its not situational in any situation that matters. 10% only has to trigger once per 10 sec.

[lusty grotto]

that's situational by definition

[fickle urchin]

ugh.

[ember arrow]

you literally

told a situational example

[lusty grotto]

you would choose to fight harder shit to give value to gemhide?

over dps mid ring traits?

[fickle urchin]

fine, ok if you are questing or doing trivial stuff where you default attack 500k, or doing tank bags, it wont trigger.

[lusty grotto]

ok, it's your game, you can do whatever you want

[fickle urchin]

anything nontrivial, it matters, thus it matters in every situation where gear optimization matters, thus ists not really situational for anything .. that matters.

[lusty grotto]

right which is why its taken over dps traits

[ember arrow]

u choose to ahve less tahn 1% DR

[final mist]

The only time I wouldn't immediately take a higher ilevel azerite piece is if I'm looking at one that has DC on it.

[ember arrow]

over more dps

🤔

[lusty grotto]

but not worth 10 ivls over something else

[final mist]

No traits are worth more than ilevel otherwise.

[fickle urchin]

is that true regardless of the combined effect of good traits on all 3 rings vs bad on all 3 rings, or is this purely a dogma based on outer ring only @final mist `?

[final mist]

You're extremely over-valuing "good" traits and undervaluing "bad" ones.

The gap isn't as large as you think it is.

[ember arrow]

^

as i said before, gemhide isnt the god of traits

yet it is presented as such by you

[final mist]

Same reason why we always take ilevel for other gear even if Haste isn't on it - they're so close together that it doesn't matter.

[fickle urchin]

ok i ll yield

[ember arrow]

more stats>"optimal"stats

[fickle urchin]

its just so counter-intuitive to me

[final mist]

Gemhide is very good, but it's not "I won't take a 15 item level increase" good.

[ember arrow]

activision blizzard

deosnt want u to think

they push ilvl>all for a while now i beleive

[fickle urchin]

its a lot less clearcut as dps

just putting that out there

[ember arrow]

u sim

so it is clearly cut

[final mist]

DPS don't have to worry about getting punched in the face, all they care about is hitting harder.

[ember arrow]

every time u get an item u can check

[winged sage]

going for ilvl > alla ... is in it self not a flaw, when you get something better, you don't want to put in the bags cause your 30 ilvl less is still better

[lusty grotto]

ilvl > all isn't clear cut?

[fickle urchin]

yeah and you can easilly find stuff that doesnt warrant swapping but is differnet ilvl as dps. I guess thats not the case for tanks though. Its a shame.

[ember arrow]

if u equip ilvl>all, you cant go wrong

absically

and u can do highest content

basically*

[fickle urchin]

sure but it wont be optimal as dps

[soft kindle]

Umm, can I cut in here?

[lusty grotto]

i'd say dps isn't as clear cut, i have to go to Raidbots for every piece i get

[soft kindle]

All stats are really close for dps too

[ember arrow]

dps can sim, and tanks can sim damage too

i dont understand ur point

[soft kindle]

usually not quite to the extent that ilvl always wins, but

[ember arrow]

for surv

its ilvl>all 95%

[soft kindle]

usually ilvl will outweigh bad stats even for dps specs

[ember arrow]

only prot cant sim

[lusty grotto]

yeah Meth that's true

[fickle urchin]

yeah ok, its hard to sim prot, i can defo understand that

[ember arrow]

its not hard

its impossible

unless merek made it work

or some1 else

[soft kindle]

It's stressed in both arms and fury guides, for example, that best stats to worst stats is not like, 10 to 1, more like, 1.5 to 1.4

[fickle urchin]

i v had cases where its a 50% difference between two secondaries

(as dps)

[ember arrow]

but

we arent talking about dmg

liek

[winged sage]

There are still speccs that suffer more from secondary being so much better... But generally it's pretty equal

[ember arrow]

ilvl>all except on DC or RA etc. is all for survivability

you brought up dmg, but we werent arguing it

unless i missed smt

[lusty grotto]

simming defensiveness is a mess, there are too many models TMI, MSD, ETMI, etc etc etc

target types are way more varied than just Patchwerk and Hectic Cleave

[fickle urchin]

look, i m just devils advocating at this point so no bully please, but if you play dps and just equip ilvl, you can get into a siutation where you literally have zero versatility on gear for instance, or zero mastery.

thats gonna throw the weights off a lot

[ember arrow]

i thought dps didnt want versa

usually

[fickle urchin]

just an example

[lusty grotto]

some dps does

ret for example

[ember arrow]

usually

[fickle urchin]

or if you end up with a huge amount of versa then.

[ember arrow]

but u can sim on dps

[fickle urchin]

thats gonna make it even worse

[ember arrow]

the whiole point why we discuss

is becasue u cant sim def

[daring patrol]

vers sims as my second highest stat as arms right now so shrug

[fickle urchin]

you must have almost none then

[lusty grotto]

hehe

[fickle urchin]

thanks for the chat, i ll be a good boy and put on the 385 shoulders.

[lusty grotto]

i honestly don't see the point of simming for stats, i just run gear compare every time

[ember arrow]

on any tank taht can sim dmg

u just sim it

and for surv u eq ilvl

[lusty grotto]

kinda curious what my weights are @ arms

[ember arrow]

almost always

at the end of the day, i think equiping 385 instead of 375 change wont have a sig

significant impact

[lusty grotto]

need to get that M Taloc 2 hander for my arms spec 😦

[ember arrow]

playing well is by far most important

[fickle urchin]

you ll luck out eventually. I was crying for weeks, and then randomly got 2 from 1 kill.

[open bluff]

wait

those aren't prot stat weights are they? 👀

[lusty grotto]

no

arms

[open bluff]

😦

[lusty grotto]

sorry for the confusion lol

yeah i don't think there's an APL for prot dps yet

but i could be wrong

[signal plover]

Prolly not the best place to post a screenshot of arms stat weights lol

[lusty grotto]

i know SimC devs were here a couple of weeks ago

fine paw

[open bluff]

hopes and dreams... crushed by the letters a, r, m, and s

[primal crypt]

POG

[open bluff]

[ember arrow]

skill

[soft kindle]

BC please

give

now

ty

[lusty grotto]

i usually get away with it and i would have if it wasn't for your meddling paws

[ember arrow]

@primal crypt "dagger in the back" AKA bfa

[primal crypt]

385 bois

[lusty grotto]

gz gz!

[primal crypt]

Lel

Dagger in the back > DC

[lusty grotto]

ravager spec trait clearly

[primal crypt]

RAVAGER in the back

[open bluff]

meanwhile i'm still sitting here getting 380 for every slot except azerite or a ring

[primal crypt]

it's about to go down

[lusty grotto]

looking forward for the 6th week in a row azerite piece that isn't DC

[open bluff]

372... with a 355 ring

[lusty grotto]

but hey at least i have a 370 one

[signal plover]

Kekek

Last week I got a 385 DC shoulder

And I was lije

Hot damn

[lusty grotto]

i lied, i think i do have 385 DC shoulders

can't remember

and logged off as arms 😦

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah I did M0 at ilvl 315 was it?

Anyways it wasn't bad at all

[primal crypt]

.................

[fickle urchin]

lol 35% haste standing in town. Gotta love into the frey

[primal crypt]

I dont know if I want to try shimmering haven XD

[uneven mason]

only 35%

[primal crypt]

Who actually uses shimmering haven

how triggering is it

[fickle urchin]

i do

on my new shoulders

[lusty grotto]

nope 370

[uneven mason]

Its not bad on fights where you don't ahve to move

[scarlet basalt]

Some big pulls it was a bit tough but it was only because it was the masterminds and heartseeker

[uneven mason]

m0 at 315 is about right

[lusty grotto]

you can reflect masterminds

[primal crypt]

@uneven mason I usually move a ton

mainly M+ person

[lusty grotto]

and do massive damage to them

[uneven mason]

Then its probably not going to be hot shit for you 😄

[primal crypt]

I'm just wondering if I can make it work

or if the shimmering isn't that big of a radius

[uneven mason]

Its not bad when you can utilize it

[long phoenix]

another week and no weapon, 374 with a 345 weapon i fucking hate this game

[uneven mason]

its like, I dunno, healing rain size

[primal crypt]

hmm...

that's actually pretty big XD

[uneven mason]

yeah

[fickle urchin]

slurpee, i m in the same spot in tank gear

345 wpn, 365 shield, 373 ilvl

[lusty grotto]

hmm affixes this week aren't that bad, except if you have mongo heals

[primal crypt]

Shiiiit

I kinda want to try it

Lol

[lusty grotto]

mongo heals and mongo dps

ok nvm it might be bad depending on your pug situation lol

nevermind, i take that back

tyrannical + grievous on certain bosses is ass

need god-like heals

[uneven mason]

Dark Iron ftw

"Whats Grevious"

[fickle urchin]

think second wind almost negates it too

[uneven mason]

#protection

If we had 2nd wind...oh my

I miss old 2nd wind

[fickle urchin]

yeah

[uneven mason]

"30% health, hope you boys brought your big burst"

[lusty grotto]

Lol

[uneven mason]

PVP as prot with old 2nd wind

[fickle urchin]

prot is the spec i v had the most success with in arena, despite being the one i v played the least

that was in wrath tho

[lusty grotto]

I can't remember a time when second wind was good, but I only arena as arms

[uneven mason]

WoTLK Prot

ARP SBV stacking

[fickle urchin]

massive massive shield slams

[uneven mason]

Nimchip 2nd wind originally just healed you when you hit 30% health

it made warriors pretty unkillable

like 3% per second

[lusty grotto]

At the start it was crap

[uneven mason]

for as long as you were under 30% health

it was amazing 0_o

[lusty grotto]

When it was initially put in

[soft kindle]

35%

not 30%

[uneven mason]

Anywho, looking forward to this weeks affixes

[fickle urchin]

we ran arms-prot-pala

was kinda silly

[uneven mason]

not because I particuarrly like Grevious or Bolstering (lol sooth)

wawit wrong enrage effect

but anyway

because its not

[lusty grotto]

I got glad as lock arms dru in tbc. Lol

[uneven mason]

FORTIFIED TEEMING

guild wanted to run their 10s lastnight omg

Waycrest, Motherlode and KR

[soft kindle]

this is an ehh week tbh

[lusty grotto]

Yeah I got the worst runs this past week

[soft kindle]

Depends how the change to grievous turns out

[uneven mason]

should be better for warriors.

[fickle urchin]

i v had worse weeks. I hate the explosive, but its .. doable. Just annoying as fuck.

[uneven mason]

Explosive is great

it was the teeming in most dungeons

with FOrtified

KR was cancer

[fickle urchin]

Not a huge fan of teeming no

[stone imp]

KR required a rogue.

[uneven mason]

had one, still cancer

[stone imp]

The brute addition was silly.

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah fuck that lol

[uneven mason]

the teeming pack in first bosses room

+++

[soft kindle]

Just double dk, ez 😛

[lusty grotto]

i ran 3 ADs and people kept breaking cc's on teeming packs, even after i had yelled and explained that CC didn't pop orbs after the hotfix

[uneven mason]

🖕

[lusty grotto]

3rd boss pack 😢

[scarlet basalt]

Our group was ready to do a +13 and on method dungeon tools it shows that there is only the brute. We thought oh nice we can actually do a key in time this week which was before hotfix. We walk into that pack and we’re just like what the fuck

[stone imp]

Hard CCs before entering combat generally didn't spawn CCs. Other kinds of CCs did. It was difficult to figure out what would work and what wouldn't at times.

It was a pretty sloppy fix on their part

[lusty grotto]

DH cc was still spawniing orbs though

even if done out of combat

[fickle urchin]

I had an odd bug yesterday in AD. My turnip punching bag from before putting in the key, spawned an explosive when we engaged the little raptors down the stairs on a 9.

[soft kindle]

It was a hotfix like 2 days ago Callmeg

[fickle urchin]

and had to reload UI to get rid of it.

[lusty grotto]

others didn't, stuns didn't

[soft kindle]

or something

[stone imp]

Yeah, it was inconsistent at best

[dusk locust]

dude that first pack after mummy boss wtf

[lusty grotto]

for sure

[scarlet basalt]

I know but this was at the start of the reset

[soft kindle]

Remember when KR was like, not that bad on teeming because of that brute being solo? Not anymore, bitches

[dusk locust]

our group had 2 decent hard cc and we still wiped to it

[lusty grotto]

hey at least Shadow got nerfed

[soft kindle]

true

[lusty grotto]

😆

[soft kindle]

well hella needed on fort

[lusty grotto]

fuck that mob

[stone imp]

There was another brute added to another pack. 3 brutes on that walkway.

[fickle urchin]

where is this brute you are talking about?

[soft kindle]

only way to handle him was to kite him back and forth

[stone imp]

Just horrible

[soft kindle]

after second boss Alx

[scarlet basalt]

Shadow zul?

[lusty grotto]

hey guys just keep running lul

[soft kindle]

yah

[scarlet basalt]

Did he?

[dusk locust]

after the first pack we were ok

but that was nuts

[lusty grotto]

yes he got nerfed

[stone imp]

First pack, pat, last pack before third boss

[fickle urchin]

ok

last pack is gonna be rough

then

[stone imp]

Which already included berserkers

That are killing you and/or your DPS

[lusty grotto]

also the mini boss trash after 1st boss got nerfed

[fickle urchin]

bring dks for the zerkers i guess

(which is silly)

[stone imp]

yeah

[soft kindle]

While I have you all here, question. 390 azerite with fury traits or 375 azerite with prot traits

[ember arrow]

zerkers?

just kite em

[lusty grotto]

which btw wasn't that bad if people know what they were doing

[stone imp]

Bringing a DK helps minimize the pain. Shroud or death skip is what we did each time.

[ember arrow]

if u control beastmasters the ydo way more dps

bring the player not the class btw

[scarlet basalt]

My guild doesn’t have a blood dk geared enough for +14

[stone imp]

the pack before the third boss isn't worth kiting or killing

[lusty grotto]

any DK

[scarlet basalt]

And I play BrM monk so 😂

[lusty grotto]

you can bring frost dks

don't bring unholy, they bitch about their dps if they control undead

[scarlet basalt]

I meant any dk sorry

[lusty grotto]

(for some reason)

[ember arrow]

@lusty grotto if u control a mob, it has reduced stats

and does less dmg than the default

[lusty grotto]

either way

frost does way better now

and they don't lose dps over it 😃

[scarlet basalt]

Is prot better as main tank or off tank on fetid

[ember arrow]

main

[dusk locust]

it can do both but i think most of us main tank it

[lusty grotto]

if you manage blocking well you can take combos fairly easily

[sand egret]

Grievous....

joy.

[ember arrow]

@scarlet basalt who si ur cotank

[scarlet basalt]

I’m considering bringing my prot to our guilds pirate raid which is our raid for leveling non geared people on heroic

[ember arrow]

is

[scarlet basalt]

Blood dk

[ember arrow]

definitely

maintank it

[scarlet basalt]

Ok

[ember arrow]

bdk offtank is made for it

[lusty grotto]

Bladesong bring my godlike Hpal, oh wait youre alliance 🤣

[scarlet basalt]

Oh lol the raid lead and I just fight over threat since we’re geared for mythic

[sand egret]

damn straight! got a 380 butcher's block because the game apparently found out I was messing with crit builds

but my druid still feels like fucking paper

[scarlet basalt]

So he’ll sometimes main rank it and I’ll off tank with my monk

[sand egret]

so it's been tough slogging thru M+

[lusty grotto]

sounds like every bear

lol

[scarlet basalt]

Dang lll

Lol*

[sand egret]

I really want it to me a me thing, tbh

[soft kindle]

Druid is suffering atm

[lusty grotto]

how did you even get to play that spec, i thought it was deleted

[soft kindle]

😢

[sand egret]

there's got to be sometihng I'm doing wrong

[scarlet basalt]

Any incoming buffs?

[soft kindle]

Damage and utility yah

[lusty grotto]

hax blade

[soft kindle]

It

's pinned in DG

[scarlet basalt]

I’m hoping prot gets some more utility

But other than that I’m having fun with them

[sand egret]

I'm probably fucking up how I used my shit but everytime I play on my druid I roll on my warrior after and it's like....wut

[soft kindle]

@scarlet basalt Blood can heal themselves before 50% on fetid as off tank. Prot has the highest mitigation from the main tank hit. Perfect combo if you both play well

[lusty grotto]

"bring the class not the player" - "lets give vortex back to bears so they have a ghetto gorefiends COUGH sigil of chains COUGH"

[sand egret]

ursol's is dope

[soft kindle]

tbh, the damage buff>Ursols addition

[scarlet basalt]

It’s just my prot is only like 315 so I was wondering what would be easier to do on heroic difficulty

[lusty grotto]

• Cries in Legion Enrage Frenzied Regen -

[open bluff]

you're forgetting one thing guys

12% of 0 is still 0

[sand egret]

yeah coming off Legion playing him is realllly rough.

[soft kindle]

Guardian suffers from needing damage traits like it did in legion, but it doesn't have the super survivability to sustain itself

and it kind of just feels like, it's never quite enough

[dusk locust]

main tank is probably going to be easier

[sand egret]

Guardian is super 1-dimensional mitigation with meh self healing

[ember arrow]

bear isnt good at metigation

nor at self healing

[scarlet basalt]

Instead of buffing other tanks they’re just nerfing blood dk and a minuscule nerf to brm

[ember arrow]

ddoesnt have msot hp of all tanks either

so what is left?

[open bluff]

the bench

[scarlet basalt]

😭

[open bluff]

they're the best at warming it

[lusty grotto]

i'm just kidding guys, my druid is still 110 and is perma resto

mage tower appearance will never be used

[open bluff]

my druid has always been the last of my toons to cap, guardian has just always been so blah

[sand egret]

that's WHY i'm playing my bear

fuck if im not going to use that skin dammit

[ember arrow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226301753086181377/497127571532808233/unknown.png

first bear i saw

in bfa

[lusty grotto]

now that i think about it i'm not using mage tower appearance on my warrior, since he is the most esteemed chef horde-side

[open bluff]

blizzard half assed the mage tower skin for guardian imo

[sand egret]

I mean he's in caster form

[ember arrow]

no thats not the point

it was the first bear

i saw

[open bluff]

they went from bear to manbear, when with one step further they could have gone manbearpig

[ember arrow]

in bfa

[open bluff]

i'm super cereal

[sand egret]

word...that was what?

[lusty grotto]

yeah they missed that chance avalith

[sand egret]

3 months ago?

[scarlet basalt]

I play brewmaster because of my boi Chen and I enjoy the hell out of the class but prot seems fun too

[lusty grotto]

i saw a bear in my mage's lfr last week

it was lfr though

[open bluff]

i love chen and i love brm, but i can't stand its current iteration

[scarlet basalt]

I guess part of it is also because I can say I decently play prot

[lusty grotto]

also i had to run orbs as frost because LFR people are fucking retarded

[soft kindle]

Yeah but guardian swiftmend heals more than resto swiftmend so it's ok BTW

[open bluff]

my guild healers actually prefer my warrior to my brewmaster

[sand egret]

if only we could use that sick heal in bearform

[uneven mason]

👍

[sand egret]

but back to shields

this is too depressing

[lusty grotto]

who else got all the tank mage tower appearances other than me?

[open bluff]

(also because prot sucks so bad i can solo bosses easier on my warrior than my monk 🤣)

[sand egret]

I didn't get the warrior on e 😦

[lusty grotto]

(also all the offspec for those tanks)

[sand egret]

I did it for my 2 chars in Legion

but that was it

[lusty grotto]

fuck my life i hated the MW one goddamn

[scarlet basalt]

???? Monks can solo bosses too

[open bluff]

yeah, just saying it's easier on my warrior

since i can just pop avatar and kill it before it kills me 👀

[scarlet basalt]

😂

[lusty grotto]

haha

[soft kindle]

BrM just takes a ton of damage

so it doesn't surprise me

[lusty grotto]

purify purify purify

[sand egret]

bolstering + grievous is me playing with fire th is week

pug life is gonna be dangerous

[open bluff]

yeah, the main problem with brm is stagger makes it so if the healer goes down they're typically not far behind

[lusty grotto]

get that god heals, and you're set

health pots help too

[open bluff]

whereas warrior still mitigates out the ass and still has better DPS to boot

[lusty grotto]

since they don't share a cd with pre-pots

[scarlet basalt]

If they wanted to nerf brm they need to lower the amount of stagger you have without iron skin

[open bluff]

they are

[sand egret]

but if you had Nimchip's Hpal it wouldnt matter

[scarlet basalt]

Barely

1.5% is nothing

[lusty grotto]

indeed it wouldn't

[open bluff]

it's a ~1.5% decrease in stagger overall iirc

[lusty grotto]

ran a 10 last week at ilvl 350 😦

[open bluff]

but i thought it was slightly more without isb

[sand egret]

you could stagger all the damage you'd take for the rest of the expac and you'd be fine

[scarlet basalt]

I have 65% stagger without drinking

Or actually closer to 63

[open bluff]

what they really need to do is make blackout combo and guard worth using

as it stands right now there's literally no reason to run anything but HT

[daring patrol]

what they REALLY need to do, is let me transmog my artifact appearances separately

[sand egret]

said it a milllion times, make stagger's duration inversely scale with damage

[scarlet basalt]

High tolerance is too good man

[lusty grotto]

🤔

[open bluff]

the real problem is blizzard doubled down on every tank only having a single method of mitigation

[scarlet basalt]

The issue right now is that if you play brm wrong you’ll still be doing great because right now tanking is like healers job lol

[sand egret]

damage, flattened over time, is at its core a healer offset and fundamentally easier to deal with and its the urgency they don't feel

[ionic ledge]

wait, can you not choose your shield to look like the legion artifact thing without also having your MH look like it?

[sand egret]

its a combo Skippy

[daring patrol]

@ionic ledge nope

[open bluff]

brm feels that more than most because they went from having a varied kit to just "lol insane stagger"

[ionic ledge]

@daring patrol cheers

[scarlet basalt]

Fetis log proves that brm base stagger is a bit too much so even if you don’t drink a swig you’ll be fine

[sand egret]

there's no urgency

[scarlet basalt]

You can probably keep iron skin stagger the same but just drop base stagger when not drinking

[sand egret]

if a poor brm who doesn't use ISB optimally is taking higher damage per tick

then you notice the difference

[open bluff]

^

[scarlet basalt]

That way if you’re aren’t keeping 100% uptime you get fucked

[open bluff]

and honestly that's what drove me away from brm

[scarlet basalt]

Have you guys not seen the fetid log?

[sand egret]

that's literally what we're talking about

but thanks for joining

[scarlet basalt]

Ok my bad 😂

Either way though I honestly think dropping stagger amount when not drinking would be better

[lusty grotto]

enough talk about BrMs, i'm here to cook

[open bluff]

or just not making stagger the only thing brm does

[sand egret]

thesis of that is that improper play doesn't have a proper feedback loop because the mistakes are offset on the healers .

[scarlet basalt]

Yeah that’s true

[sand egret]

due to how stagger is always a set duration

[lusty grotto]

🐔

[open bluff]

mop/wod brm was great in that it was there but it wasn't the only form of mitigation they had

[sand egret]

any damage is given X time to react to. That's huge. That window also doesn't change, which I believe is a fundamental part of why they'll always be in this situation

if improper play > more damage > higher stagger tick rate (shorter duration + higher damage) = way more volatile BrM than one who is using ISB properly

that's how it should be but seriously WHO POSTED THAT GROSS CHEF IN HERE AGAIN

[lusty grotto]

Beats me 🤷

Crap I can't make it fit my avatar

[sick sentinel]

Ok who cares

Share ur weekly cache

Shits way more important than some drunk fucks tanking

[deft hinge]

bleh

[sand egret]

got me a 380 Butcher's Block

[timber nest]

Pugging a 13 waycrest manor... tfw when they dont see a blood dk so immediately leave

[sand egret]

you horde?

[old night]

Was parsing super low last night on Fetid. Any idea what it might be from?

I can link logs

[sick sentinel]

Post it so we can all point and lau--help

[uneven mason]

"Parsing" #protection

[sick sentinel]

It's important

I need to know how much better I'm doing than my dps

[hushed cobalt]

got 380 ritual bandages trink. upgrade but it would replace blockades

[sick sentinel]

How much does that absorb?

[hushed cobalt]

58,860 @ 380

[mighty gulch]

Question. Shimmering Haven procs about once per minute, correct? So 438 armor divided by 6 is 73 on average
The second trait i could take is earthlink, it cycles between 138 and 23 strengthevery 6 seconds. The median of this is 90.3
Vanguard gives me 50% of that strength as armor which is is 45.15

So is 45 armor with strength better
Or 73 armor (on average) with a 15,459HP boost.

The third one is azerite globules which we won't talk about.

[primal crypt]

@mighty gulch what content

[mighty gulch]

Mythic raiding.

[primal crypt]

raid?

m+?

[mighty gulch]

I do both.

[primal crypt]

you could get away with shimmering

but for M+ no

I just tested it

because I wanted to use Shimmering

it's a no thanks

[mighty gulch]

Earthlink for m+ shimmering for raiding.

Got it.

[primal crypt]

Might as well EarthLink

All the time

Instead of swapping

[mighty gulch]

Yeah thats what i did.

I have resounding protection x3 now.

Lmao.

[primal crypt]

@mighty gulch

[mighty gulch]

Uh what is this?

Your gear and talents?

[primal crypt]

ye

[mighty gulch]

How do I do that?

[primal crypt]

do what

[mighty gulch]

Get it to show like that.

[primal crypt]

oh it's a weakaura

[mighty gulch]

Aaah.

Does it list all your gear and traits for you?

Talents and traits*

[primal crypt]

yup

with tooltips

[sand egret]

everyone knows Impassive Visage is king 😃

my lawd and savior

[primal crypt]

impassive is amazing

[mighty gulch]

pls send that to me

[sand egret]

shit is real

haha

[mighty gulch]

Holy shit

[sand egret]

also

[mighty gulch]

Thats from one?

[primal crypt]

@sand egret how many you running?

[sand egret]

Azerite Veins is such a cock tease

[mighty gulch]

Or three?

[sand egret]

that's 2x

[mighty gulch]

Shit.

[sand egret]

if i had 3

oh boy

14% overheal too, so not even that bad

really helpful this week for grievous haha

[primal crypt]

thats with 1

[sand egret]

~10% increase per

well exactly 9% between our two haha

[primal crypt]

solid as af

[sand egret]

RP was putting in work

[primal crypt]

I cant remember who it was

but someone said impassive was shit

I lul'd

[sand egret]

after all mitigation considered, it pretty much negates a hit

5k normal 10k crits on mine

[ember crest]

three weeks in a row, same azerite piece

think my chest is broken bois

are we sure they dont do some kind of weird 'detect lowest ilvl slot' thing when choosing what to throw you?

[uneven mason]

they might

it seems to happen that way a lot

[ember crest]

question is, when do they apply this formula... at loot time? at rollover? etc

wish i could get a larger sample size to test this

[soft kindle]

Well

play arms on Zul at least

but that's a big rip

[lusty grotto]

😮

[open bluff]

well if they did i would've replaced a 355 ring instead of 370 pants

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slim pier]

Gemhide or Impassive Visage?

[ember crest]

visage

[steel mauve]

I prefer gemhide, unless i already have multiple visages

But they're both really good, so just personal preference

[primal crypt]

gemhide

unless youre stacking impassive

imo

[neon tangle]

Gemhide is wacky good

Either tho really

[modern brook]

i need some 🛡 vibes

[lusty grotto]

🌯

[neon tangle]

@open bluff run moar uldir

Her ring is p good

[open bluff]

problem is getting it to drop

[neon tangle]

I get a lot of the same suit

Shit

[uneven mason]

IV lets you parse legendary

[neon tangle]

I’ve got 3x of those, with a mix of sockets and warforging from mythic

[deft hinge]

[neon tangle]

I need trinkets badly tho

[uneven mason]

Even better

So, stack IV, show off some parses...beat the Prot paladin

[stoic compass]

What’s IV

[small tendon]

Impassible Visage

[covert comet]

[Chestplate of Apocalyptic Machinations] ilvl 375(with 4th trait) vs [Harpooner's Plate Cuirass]ilvl 385

[outer dew]

385

unless you're losing RA

[covert comet]

would still have RA

[outer dew]

just go with the 385

[covert comet]

but would be losing gemhide

[outer dew]

only one worth dropping ilvl is DC imo

yea

but you also loose the armor/stam/strength

from az pieces

[pearl anvil]

is prot the weakest tank spec ?

been reading threads on mmo champ

starting to depress me

[covert comet]

should i do brace for impact, lifespeed, and longstrider or self reliance?

[outer dew]

i pref long strider because as a tank

self reliance isn't really relevant

and if you have to read up about a state of classes

the chances are, you're not really at the point where it matters

[stone crag]

prot is only as bad as the player, it does take more effort to be on par with some other tanks, and is far more punishing than any other tank

[uneven mason]

@pearl anvil Prot isn't bad, but there are a lot of people who are bad at prot.

Go read Marok's write up on skyhold.gg he really nails it

[pearl anvil]

i feel like it's really a good spec, and we have everything, but haven't done mythics yet

[outer dew]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pearl anvil]

i want to be a mythic+ champion

[outer dew]

well

[uneven mason]

So roll a BDK

[stone crag]

then go blood

[outer dew]

i'm sitting at 1300 and yet to feel the limitation of my class if that makes you feel any better

[stone crag]

8.1 wont change that either

[outer dew]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[covert comet]

yeah i was thinking self reliance is so little healing anyway...

[uneven mason]

"I want to do stupid high keys in M+" - the answer is for tank BDK, DPS boomkin rogue or mage

[outer dew]

well

what is stupid high keys?

[lusty grotto]

or DH

15+

[uneven mason]

+20

DH folks like cheap paper above 15 tbh

[lusty grotto]

no i mean havok DH

[uneven mason]

Oh

yeah

[lusty grotto]

VDH is decent if they kite though

[uneven mason]

DPS DH

well, any tank is decent if they kite though

[outer dew]

worry about getting to the +15 normallly before you start thinking about the 20

[lusty grotto]

true

[outer dew]

the average player isn't even getting their 10 done

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[uneven mason]

^^

[lusty grotto]

and that is the metric blizzard is looking at

[pearl anvil]

nope

the average player probably being rejected because of low io score or ilvl

[uneven mason]

So like, I do 10s reguarlly

[lusty grotto]

which is why they don't give a fuck that 70% of the tanks are bdk

[outer dew]

of course

[uneven mason]

Also

[outer dew]

i'd reject low IO in a heart beat

[uneven mason]

iF you're trying to do dungeons above your IO score in pugs

get a higher IO score

[outer dew]

i built my IO pushing my own keys

[uneven mason]

If you want to do 10s

do the 4s first

[outer dew]

you know how punishing BFA dungeons are

[uneven mason]

I literally dinged an alt 120, got him up to 315 and started getting into 2s right off the cuff

[lusty grotto]

pushing with pugs is kind of a gamble though

[outer dew]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

if he's complaining

[uneven mason]

as soon as I got my IO to 250, I started doing 4s