Kind of
#protection
sick sentinel
primal crypt
for concussive shot
sick sentinel
Like we focus on m+ mostly
primal crypt
over and over and over...
sick sentinel
But we do raids as well
uncut valve
Cool
sick sentinel
Thing is, our officers don't like raiding that much
Like, if I wasn't a moderator for our discord (not even an officer smh) and I didn't spam in trade chat for days on end we would not even have 20 people for mythic
We're like 37 pulls into zek rn and we are progressing on him tomorrow
And we did run that holyspriest in HC uldir, but our GM was healing along with a buddy I push keys with so there was really not a lot of healing to be done, the +12 was the real stress test (the GM went shadow for it to be in the run)
neon tangle
My guild doesnโt do a ton of m+
Mostly just carrying each other through 10s
On our alts
Iโd feel horrible taking trials thru those
Never really CC or anything
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel what did you wipe to on sisters
that fight isn't very punishing non tyrannical week
only time i've ever wipe on the fight is due to low dps
and/or not having a cd of some sort prepped for jagged nettles
ebon sun
What % of haste are most people at?
ebon sun
I'm assuming no contribution from itf? Tofu?
ebon sun
Thank you appreciate it
oblique garnet
Without any buffs
deft hinge
astral crystal
lemme check so i can flex too
lusty grotto
what's going on here
oblique garnet
Yogi asked for unbuffed haste %
lusty grotto
hey does anyone know what ilvl loot do sub-120 chars get off the classic world bosses?
yeesh
astral crystal
whip it out nimchip
lusty grotto
i'm jumping on all my alts lol
lavish oracle
Are we flexing our unbuffed haste?
astral crystal
h8 on h8ers
coral dew
Woops
ebon sun
Appreciate the responses from everyone gives me a better understanding of what to expect
astral crystal
before anyone jumps up my ass, 385 would be trinkets and a belt that's only 5 ilvls higher than what i have
lusty grotto
YEAH I INCLUDED MY TRANSMOG
lavish oracle
That is a very good transmog
lusty grotto
chef nimchip to the rescue
astral crystal
sharkbait belt boiz represent
lusty grotto
yeah its legendary in these parts
oblique garnet
You tryna flex with the 370 rezan?
oblique garnet
And youre still using blockades
lusty grotto
yup
astral crystal
blockades is lit
lusty grotto
deck shuffles with haste are sweet
lusty grotto
1 day
oblique garnet
I have those
oblique garnet
Both on 380
oblique garnet
I spammed wm so much to get good ilvl on the gore
primal crypt
Groce
oblique garnet
Nono you need to change to safeguard and menace with indomitable
primal crypt
Should be using Devastate over Vengeance
primal crypt
outer dew
ravager->TC->revenge spam
primal crypt
accidently got that gore
didn't even know I had it in my bags
one day I just happened to see it there...
oblique garnet
Are those the temple shoulders?
primal crypt
oblique garnet
Ok i was about to be mad but im fine now
oblique garnet
I Have 2x385 shoulders from weekly chests and none of those have dc
oblique garnet
I got a new shield yesterday tho so thats nice
primal crypt
385?
outer dew
i do
primal crypt
395?
oblique garnet
Need to progress far more on mythic to actually get good shield
oblique garnet
I mean i havent gotten one shield from weeklychest so fingers crossed i will get a good one
oblique garnet
Damn i need 15 rio score to be rank 1 prot warrior on draenor
round vortex
Marok has 19 Alice and Gโhuun on 8% go you good thing
19 alive *
3% wipe fuck I jinxed them ๐ฐ
sick sentinel
ouch why you do that bro
drowsy relic
why do we do ilvl>haste? is it because of the strength increase?
if thats the case, what do we about rings?
amber siren
that and because stat 'weights' are very close together
oblique garnet
Marok and co have been at ghuun for a while is their best still 2%
sick sentinel
Hm
steel mauve
Its because armor+str+stam+ secondaries beat lower numbers of stats
sick sentinel
I think I might drop my eye/eye trinket combo
steel mauve
More stats is better than 1 singular stat
And armor is really strong defensively for ys
Us
sick sentinel
Going to go Eye/Prism
drowsy relic
how many ilvls would sockets be for our rings?
lusty grotto
5 to 10
jade socket
it can be more depending on the stats
sometimes even 25ish if its a big difference
depends on spec/rings
outer dew
25 seems a lot. You're losing a good chunk of Stam too
steel mauve
usually only 5-10, mostly leaning towards 5
outer dew
Like I can't think of any stat where I'd be like. This is miserable enough for me to drop 25 ilvls
steel mauve
the only time i could really see 10 would be the worst possible stats, on the higher ilvl one, to the best possible haste heavy stats on lower ilvl one
and even then thats not going to be a noticeable difference
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel you wipe on sisters because the shadow priest is mind controlled and silences your healer and dots everyone running around to take care of explosives
Or your healer is 351 ilvl and has 128k hp with priest buff
Other than that, yeah the whole dungeon is pretty ok
LMFAO
That's hilarious
Why are you playing witha spriest in the first place
Because he was our guild leader and wanted to see how new healer will do in actual hard content
He mains disc
steady fiber
Hi guys, at what spot are warrior tanks atm? ( asking bcs was not playing for a while)
sweet kettle
at a low average spot
lavish oracle
Unless you're pushing mythic+ keys higher than +15, warriors are in a good spot for most content
I should add the caveat: if played well
outer dew
@sick sentinel TF you recruiting 351 healer
I mean. Last week on 15's I didn't feel like my class was the limitation
But last week was easy week
Lmao
lavish oracle
Well yeah, we're definitely capable of pushing higher keys but our toolkit is more limited than other tanks'
outer dew
Slight regrets starting to level my other toons though
Grip and gorefiend grip gives me depression
And having more oh shit buttons as a dk
Reeee
Ignorance is bliss
Shouldn't of started leveling
But, one thing that keeps me playing warrior is my DPS roleplay on trash
lavish oracle
DK is just too slow for me. Gotta have that warrior APM spam
outer dew
No need for utility if you just straight up kill the adds :P
It's okay. The down time as DK is pretty frustrating
I should give DH a lookie, but I'd have to start a new one
lavish oracle
Empty GCDs frustrate the hell outta me
outer dew
I mean, I feel like warrior is overloaded ATM
I actually don't like being cornered into having to TC every other button
lavish oracle
The IP changes will definitely help that but I kinda like having to decide what to squeeze in to my rotation between thunderclaps.
It adds something to the class. It makes me feel like my buttons matter
outer dew
I mean IP changes + DC Nerf will make it less overloaded imo
Just being stuck spamming TC to keep DS up wasn't that fun or intuitive to me
lavish oracle
I mean you'll still want to be spamming TC for the damage and rage gen
steel mauve
Youll still spam tc still, just itll be for damage and not just demo shout
The only difference now is instead of ip you're going to hit devestate
Unless you get a reset from it
lavish oracle
Its just not as mandatory
outer dew
Yea, of course.
It's just not gonna be terribly miserable if I wanna keep hitting shield spam to keep my BFI stacks up and at 2
But I want to pop SB/SS/IP
But I gotta TC
Kind of thing
lavish oracle
Yeah, you see, thats the kinda thing I personally like about warrior as is
The little split second decisions
outer dew
Is it though?
If TC isn't there, I'll not have a 20% DR
And I have to default into SB most of the time to stay alive outside of LS
Like no stack of BFI is gonna outvalue SB
And IP sometimes just becomes prio because if I'm not dumping my rage
Avatar/Demo/LS will take longer to get back up
So I won't have it potentially at the right time for some fights
lavish oracle
True, in a situation where you will die from taking an unmitigated hit, its not a decision
But it could be if you felt comfortable with your damage intake and wanted to push out a little extra dps
outer dew
Sure. I can agree with that
Sometimes I'm a monkey
I'll just pop Avatar/Last Stand/TC+Revenge spam
Or if a dps drops treants or earth elr
Fully monkey dps
next goblet
i love how a prot war did damn near 50k dps on zul mythic.. by padding on crawgs
lavish oracle
Dude was still pulling like 10k on Zul which is pretty damn good
Extremely good, really
sick sentinel
@outer dew with the rate of people quitting the game we need everyone right now because the playerbase is a ticking bomb, and advertising our guild as "running mplus basically all day" can't happen when there are 3 teams going
So we're getting people of all item levels so they can run together
So I got a 351 healer, yeah ( that got a 385 belt and replaced his 325 so he went up to 355) and a 387 prot warr
Because we have low geared extra tanks and high geared extra healers
wary raptor
question: does any1 know the name of the website that rates the difficulty of Mythic+ dungeons by there afficxes?
gray wolf
burnt iron
fickle geyser
quick nav
pallid hollow
With the 8.1 change, Deafening crash value would significantly decreases right? I would assume it won't worth losing ilvl over it.But still better than other trait assuming same ilvl?
vocal nimbus
Most likely yes
sick sentinel
@pallid hollow speculation says that you will not sac 45 ilvls for it like you do now, but most likely like 15 ilvls, depending on the other traits
Thing is, it is abundant in raid pieces so you will have more than you need anyway
pallid hollow
also i might have missed it, any new prot warr trait on PTR yet?
brittle timber
just the avatar gives mastery and a free IP one
sick sentinel
Bastion of Might
Gives mastery steroid and an IP on avatar use
So basically you stack this for big boy claps
And avatar becomes a defensive CD from a just offensive one
I'll try to get 3 of it personally
sick sentinel
Imagine boosting people through 10s on easy weeks, triple BoM triple DC (if possible)
sick sentinel
Eng belt or skystep -> last stand -> TC revenge spam
coral dew
Mmmmm
Do we know of any of the lower tier class traits getting changed?
Like brace for impact or anything
sick sentinel
Yes, the plating trait is getting the boot afaik
zealous anchor
whats the best talents to go with right now? im kind of lost one what direction to go .
brittle timber
I wouldn't disagree
sick sentinel
And in weeks with explosive I have overpulled because of it
zealous anchor
i saw those, im excited! still learning when to apply IP.
brittle timber
prolly most importantly...blockable ranged physical attacks
the thing that's not actually a direct buff to us is arguably the biggest buff
zealous anchor
i started legion with prot then they got hit hard...switched to guardian for the rest of the xpac now im trying to get backl to prot and its definitely not the same type of tanking lol xD
brittle timber
We're not in the best of places but we're far better than what most of the community mindlessly following Sco says
zealous anchor
a good prot warrior can do just as good as some of the others, ive seen it. but what stats shouldi focus on mainly? i see alot of haste and vers, but i would think mastery would be good too?
tulip pond
Ilvl > haste > mastery/versa > crit
uncut valve
How do you guys use LS and SW and SR? I infrequently use LS and SW (maybe 1-2 times per dungeon) as a panic button and Iโm getting very low. SR is also rather I frequent and very opportunistic
steel mauve
Use last stand to fill the gap in shield block with bolster
steel mauve
Use shield wall when you know a lot of dmg is coming in, and use spell reflect to mitigate magic dmg
uncut valve
I have a sense better warriors use these much more frequently and proactively rather than reactively
steel mauve
Proactive is our entire playstyle
uncut valve
YeH
steel mauve
Once you react to damage as a warrior you already fucked up
Last stand is a rotational ability, its not a major cd any more, with AM and bolster and gaps in shield block
uncut valve
So do you start with LS or use it after both SB charges are depleted?
steel mauve
@zealous anchor all of our stats are good, thats why ilvl is our highest priority, just some are barely better than others when it comes to same ilvl gear
uncut valve
They should change the name of LS btw now if is a rotational ability.. not really a โLastโ stand hehe
steel mauve
Shield block X 3 > last stand > shield block X 3
coral dew
First Stand
steel mauve
Thats 51 seconds of shield block
uncut valve
Thank you!!
Boy have I been playing this wrong
How do you plan when to use SW and SR in Dubgeons?
steel mauve
Larger packs for shield wall, but like they said, with am it can be used every other pack basically, holding onto it is a waste, even just using it is better than not using it, since with anger management its up quite often, spell reflect is more of a magic dmg coming out use spell reflect but it has more lee way in situations, either actually reflect 1 spell, or use it for 5 seconds of magic mitigation
uncut valve
And how do you optimally use it in M+? Do you keep track of all spells of all mobs?
Or do you just pop it when you see lots of cast bars coming up in certain packs indicating you should be taking a lot of magic damage soon?
sick sentinel
more like middle stand
tulip pond
It's good to know what spells do the mobs in the pack use, for example the goblins after 1st boss in Motherlode cast that nasty spell which name I can't remember so it's best to save SR for those casts
sick sentinel
spell reflect and shield wall usage comes with experience
you can 
to see a blockable and reflectable spell list
for uldir and all dungeons
steel mauve
Chances are if theres a lot of cast bars its gonna only be useful on 1 of em, but ya, you just learn the dungeon, understand what does magic dmg and just use that experience on spells, like i said we are proactive, so you have to know whats happening, and the only way to do that is experience
Again, better to use it than to just not, if it stops a spell it did its just, if you have non reflectable spells coming in, use it, and it just did its job
uncut valve
Thanks guys, all useful advice and should tbh be written in the wowhead guides as well ๐
I think experience matters for sure but you can also get stuck in wrong patterns if you donโt have the right preparation and thought processes.. like me saving LS and SW this entire xpac so far
Also, I can keep running M+ all day long but not necessary understand what to do to improve.. thatโs where a good guide per dungeon with top 5 advice for a Prot warrior would come in handy and by order of importance list the key 5 things to make sure you do right like for what critical pack to save SW, which pack to kite, what to spell reflect etc.. this would take decrease the time it takes to improve by 80% or so if I would guess
uncut valve
Haha will do ๐
sand egret
Anger Management is so, so strong and not super visible upfront but the more you push (get hit > use ability >> rage dumps) the more they're back up. So it all feeds into itself. Those cooldowns get really short and if you're aren't careful you'll end up holding them off to the point where they'd be back up again
uncut valve
Makes a lot of sense, so the point is that the CDs are even shorter than 2min and 5min for LS and SW respectively... even more reason to use them frequently
coral dew
Probably way more dependant on the situation I'm sure but would revenge be a more preferable rage dump than IP then? Assuming you're keeping up a consistent rotation of shield block and last stand/demo shout for overall smoothing
And then just using IP to dampen spike dmg
sand egret
well tbh your "smoothing" is largely done by SB + IP
both are your highest forms of mitigation
up to 85% on crit blocks (for blockables*)
and 50% reduction (as half the damage gets dumped into your IP)
so forgoing IP almost entirely for revenge is basically if you're trying to pad
so, if you'really Gucci, you can just TClap > Revenge > Repeat in your Av phase
however, chances are those revenges will end up being free....so IP is your realistic dump anyway
coral dew
Okay fair enough. That makes sense. I guess I'm looking for a one size fits all rotation but that's probably not realistic all the time
sand egret
yeah unfortunately it's not that straight forward in that regard
coral dew
That's good though. I'd rather not have completely brain dead gameplay hah
sand egret
๐
steel mauve
We still have a priority system, so its still not difficult to decide what ability you want to use, the only real decision is dmg or defense
Even a free revenge is still dmg over an ip, but ip is our only rage duml in that situation
uncut valve
I thought IP was almost useless the way the community talks about it so Iโve only been using it for when I think spike dmg is incoming or when Iโm getting low to get healers a break
steel mauve
Its undertuned, but it still has a use, and still should be used to spend rsge
Rage*
Its also the damage smoother like he said, its used to smooth damage, especially against any thing non blockable, it still stops 45k dmg at cap
sand egret
ip is fantastic, the difference is that IP isn't a the end-all-be-all mitigation that it was in Legion
its the definition of damage smoothing, imho
steel mauve
I wouldnt go as far as to say its fantastic, it does the job its meant to, but the absorb is still capped at the low end, and is some what undertuned
timber vault
I kinda miss vengeance.
Wouldnt mind IP on the GCD if vengeance could make it to go to hilarious levels.
strong forum
explosive weeks are fun
sand egret
10.7% overheal. scrub.
anyone experience a bug in TD on the first boss where you just keep getting teleported back to a stuck drone? damn I felt like that lil' bugger as going to whip out a red cape, goatee, and ask me to bargain....woof
marble cipher
๐
silk mortar
I would still stick with 370, cant really tell why. Just feeling it ;3
Socket to good ^^
restive zodiac
Yeah I guess it better to stick to the consistent 101 haste than waiting for procs on the other. Plus I will lose strength and stamina if I play with the mace. The mace just sounds so damn fun ๐ฆ
silk mortar
Yup since your main weapon has 100 more haste permanent
I understand that mace is from timewalking?
restive zodiac
The wow anniversary event. Killing the dragons for the quest from the mailbox.
silk mortar
Ah
restive zodiac
Iโve heard the drops can roll up higher, but I had no such luck.
steel mauve
weapon dmg also turns into ap which buffs ip as well
sand egret
^
daring marlin
lol
Looks like you took that with your phone
look into lightscreen app or something
y i k e s
restive zodiac
Lol I did. Iโm to lazy to put discord on my computer
sand egret
yet care enough to try and min/max a character via taking a literal phone screenshot instead? ๐ค
daring marlin
restive zodiac
My priorities are not the best. Itโs true.
oblique garnet
Gl its not fun
oblique garnet
Not bad
sly iron
Hey guys, new prot warrior tank here. You have @mossy tiger and a few other men/women in brown to thank for converting me from DK
ember crest
next ermine
Thought we were the thunder cocks
sick sentinel
Should I switch?
iron rock
traits for m+ as prot warrior LF damage
compact crest
Are protection Warriors even viable this expac?
iron rock
idc i just have to much ap pieces so id thought id just setup a set
but cant rlly find viable guides
split thorn
dont switch
more stats on the first one
or wait
do switch
avoidance is useless
steep lily
I'd keep the 370
cinder nova
Well.
My guild just sat me for Mythrax and Ghuun prog.
Not sure if I should find a new guild or just suck it up.
south yarrow
In favor of?
next ermine
Prot is awesome for those fights XD
primal crypt
Prot is more than viable.
Prot is even stronger than other tanks in some cases
@sick sentinel don't switch imo
open bluff
Only reason to sit prot on Mythrax is because you want a brm to dodge shears tbh
cinder nova
They're taking monk/DK
After I slogged to prog us to 6/8 while they had a fucking revolving door of cotanks.
open bluff
Granted it's not a great reason to sit you
open bluff
But it's literally the only reason why you would want to sit prot
cinder nova
If I don't get CE because of this I might swap guilds.
chilly brook
Can they actually give you a solid reason why they're taking one of those two classes over you?
cinder nova
They said I'll take too much damage in P2 ghuun
open bluff
uneven mason
0_o
chilly brook
lol wut
uneven mason
TFW warriors mitigate about 40% more damage than BDK on P2 Ghuun
Like - do they warcraft logs atall?
cinder nova
I guess not
open bluff
i mean
uneven mason
do they need a translator?
open bluff
a brm dodging doesn't prevent corrupting stacks
uneven mason
and BrM more or less die as easy as any other tank on Ghuun
cinder nova
one of them said sco hasn't even bothered to do it on his war
And I knew this was over.
open bluff
OMEGALUL
uneven mason
You mean Sco "I shield wall at 4% health" Warrior?
open bluff
"sco's been bummed about warrior since legion, clearly they suck"
chilly brook
Sco's a fucking idiot
uneven mason
Well no, he's pretty good
chilly brook
You don't have to be smart to be good
open bluff
at druid
uneven mason
he just doesn't like the proactive nature of warriors.
chilly brook
Again
Someone's intelligence level has no bearing on whether or not they're a good player
Aka Sco is an idiot
uneven mason
But at the same time, If you tanked Vect as a warrior you're not going to be holing your guild back
if they're wiping its not going to be because you died
rather its not going to be because you died due to being a warrior
you might die to the healers being dead
(which any other tank would die)
sick sentinel
I would suggest doing Mythrax, getting the shoulder/trinket/weapon then leaving
if they ever put u back in'
open bluff
vectis is the only fight where you could make a case for "lol warriors take too much damage," though it's a very thin case
sick sentinel
Also Method is not a place id look for skilled players for a class
They are skilled players, but not for 1 class
uneven mason
We don't really take any more than any other tank
I mean, people love to downplay how strong IP is
rather
open bluff
like i said, it's a thin case
uneven mason
the impact it has
Like, I'll pace a prot paladin for self healing on Vecstis no problem
open bluff
and the only real reason you could make that argument would be because you're not letting the prot warrior proc victory rush from the adds
(which granted you can't exactly let it sit around for the prot to do)
open bluff
^
cinder nova
the reason why is path of least resistance
uneven mason
In general
except
there isn't any additional resistance
Its fucking lemming mentality
open bluff
if that was the case they wouldn't have let you go 6/8 
uneven mason
"The community says there are tasty treats off this cliff, all we have to do is use BrM"
chilly brook
This game is actually pissing me off rn
open bluff
i mean
sick sentinel
Just remember
sick sentinel
DKS cried because they got a love tap on the wrist
and thought they were bottom tier
chilly brook
I guess I could just reroll a fucking lock and be like "lawl carry me to 8/8" and actually get carried to 8/8
meanwhile I'm stuck in fucking guild search limbo
sick sentinel
That is why I never have more than 1 toon in a guild
ember arrow
what love tap?
chilly brook
I used to think the search for a good guild wasn't that bad...
Now I know I was wrong
sly iron
The only way to 8/8 as Prot is by being guild or raid leader
sick sentinel
@ember arrow the bitch baby talent nerf to 2 will/Storm
and that baby tap from vet
ember arrow
veteran is unchanged
sick sentinel
Did they not nerf it from 60 to 10
open bluff
they just moved 50% from the passive to the blood aura
ember arrow
no
sick sentinel
and then gave it every spec
ember arrow
lol
open bluff
because every spec is getting 10%
so frost/unholy get 10% more stam
but you get the full 60% in blood
ember arrow
u thought bdk got 60--> 10%
lul
if that was the case, that would make them unplayable
u would have same hp as a dd
ember arrow
then you shud buy some glasses
all specs get the passive
bdk gets 50% bonus
Veteran of the Third War (Passive for Blood) is now for all specs and is only 10% (this was 60% and blood only before)
Blood now has an additional +50% modifier for it.
So TL:DR
No change to BDK Stamina
+10% for Frost + Unholy
sick sentinel
all specs getting I knew but there we go
next ermine
@cinder nova Its kinda funny your guild mentioned that about Sco using prot war when the g-lead of limit literally tanks its on stream every week their full clear of mythic as a prot war XD
ember arrow
if its better its better
better to have options
but at this point it doesnt matter with everyone being 380
cinder nova
zzzzzz
candid path
Well, the top 2 tanks in terms of sheer damage mitigation are probably Warrior and Druid.
And sheer damage mitigation is just about the least-important factor in prog.
cinder nova
I really wish Blizzard actually devoted time to classes
candid path
Meh, class design always goes like this.
One really creative, destructive expansion where things get mixed up and classes feel new and different, followed by an expansion where everything feels the same - maybe even stripped down. Aaaand repeat.
cinder nova
I'm just really fucking bored of being at the mercy of developers that have no idea what their classes do.
merry bane
so, how do I best mitigate the bleeds and poison damage is Atal Dazar?
astral crystal
poison you can spell reflect
assuming youre talking about the one the assassins put on you
bleeds just pop wall or use healing items
merry bane
its the big bleed that stacks from the giants
astral crystal
yeah just use shield wall/demo shout if youre dying
and pots/lock stones
have your healer use a defensive on you
an external*
merry bane
so there isnt much besides that I can do. I felt like I wasnt doing enough
had IP SW and Demo up
astral crystal
or, if you have more ranged than melee, keep it slowed and have your meel stay away from it
melee**
while your ranged kill it
OR have a hunter pet taunt it before it slashes
like the mobs in KR
merry bane
hmm kiting is really hard with the poison blobs
lavish oracle
Leap away when you hit 3 stacks or so
merry bane
I guess teeming is fuckign with me this week lol
sick sentinel
@merry bane you can stack crit and pray
You can parry the bleeds, I never get 3stacks
merry bane
well most I can do is crit food
sick sentinel
Do you say your prayers to rngJesus before eating your food and before pulling?
merry bane
right now I am sitting at 14% crit 21% unbuffed haste 29% mastery 4% Vers 19% parry 27% block and 5% dodge
prime pasture
Given an option of equal ilvl, G'huun shield good?
merry bane
I heard it was BiS
sick sentinel
Your haste is really really good, I'm dropping ilvl to get to 19% but your mastery needs some work
Dodge you don't have to specify, everyone has 5%
What ilvl is your Shield?
merry bane
right now in my normal Uldir with Reorg ray I got 47% buffed haste non combat
ill link my armory
sick sentinel
Were talking mplus here I don't tank uldir anymore so I can't speak about it
prime pasture
@sick sentinel 380 WF Vectis shield. I don't have G'huun shield, but I figured I'd ask.
sick sentinel
Yeah, with crit food you should be fine with the bleeds, if you get 3stacks just shieldwall and spam IP and you should be fine @merry bane
@prime pasture all you care about in a shield is item level, everything else is not that relevant
Yeah, the ghuun shield is the best because of haste/mastery
merry bane
isnt it for your armor and block right>?
sick sentinel
Exactly, block stat
merry bane
I just got knocked off the ledge during taloc and it sent me into mothers room
through the door
sick sentinel
There is NO possible scenario where a 5 ilvl upgrade on a shield is not an upgrade for your gear
@merry bane that's a known bug that's actually kind of hard to replicate
merry bane
one of the bloods hit me and boom straight through to mother
prime pasture
LOL
merry bane
and my raid kicked me for dying
merry bane
I didnt have aggro on the boss but yes
I was kiting bloods during elevator phase and one hit me and I went flying through the wall into Mothers room
open bluff
i love how dumb pugs can be
normal zul: "holy shit this warrior's 50k dps"
also normal zul: "lul why did this warrior go splat"
check logs, 900k healing received the entire fight and none of it in p2
prime pasture
HAH!
open bluff
seriously when i died, 300k damage taken... 70k incoming heals
sick sentinel
Just heal yourself 4head
open bluff
i mean, i guess the feel good about that was literally every healer was focusing the blood dk because i didn't take any damage until phase two
merry bane
thats what happens when i tank alot lol
open bluff
but the parsewhore in me is pissed because even though i fucked up my pull and forgot fireblood as a DID i could've at least made the entire group look bad
instead i finished second because healers were ๐
sick sentinel
Doing normal tho
sick sentinel
Just farm hc
open bluff
yeah wasn't happening with a full pug group, most pugs still have trouble with vectis
merry bane
LOL and zul is like impossible for mos tpugs
sick sentinel
Or do m+
open bluff
we called it after zul anyway, ape of a BDK mass gripped the fear adds into the group
sick sentinel
Better and more gear
sick sentinel
I mean, better than normal
Hc is still good
But why do uldir normal when you can do 7s for 360 and 8s for 365
merry bane
because no one wants to do 7+
open bluff
+7s, with pugs, on explosive
main reason we did normal was because nobody was on for guild prog anyway thanks to holidays
sick sentinel
Did you run normal for less than 4 people?
open bluff
nah we had like 8 or 9
merry bane
I also have vial. shoudl I use the syringe or keep one of my others
open bluff
syringe for dps, blockades if you're dying
would run syringe/blockades for general use tho unless your vial is an insane ilvl
sick sentinel
I would personally go for blockades+ syringe because I am a crit whore
And on easy weeks ( not this one) syringe vial for big damage
merry bane
effects the big strength decaying with a 2 min cd
sick sentinel
I know what the items do fam
That str is a buttload of armor when you press it
So you can use it proactively when big damage is coming
open bluff
when you need a burst of armor or extra dps vial is solid
outer dew
Vial is interesting because it's on demand
sick sentinel
Or you are looking towards future full of IPs
outer dew
No need for a fat armor buff or strength increase after I was molested
merry bane
I think i will stick with syringe blockades and hold onto
my vial for like big damage fightas
outer dew
I mean
I've kind of reached the point where I don't see the point in running blockades for myself
merry bane
I have to for the heals and stam
outer dew
Blockades not gonna save my ass if I'm behind anyway
sick sentinel
I stopped running blockades a long time ago
lavish oracle
How much better is the vial proc for damage than Howler?
sick sentinel
I would take jes any day of the week
valid elk
I use my Howler mainly because our best DPS is a Windwalker and Vers > Agi for them
Ontop of the fact that its just good
sick sentinel
The trick is sharing the vers of jes with the healer
outer dew
I like the premise of vial more than jes
sick sentinel
You get bigger heals
outer dew
I don't have to play around with my oh shit button if I gotta kite or do something mong
lavish oracle
Yeah, Jes is 100% better as far as survival is concerned
sick sentinel
I macro'ed jes with my orc racial tbh
lavish oracle
But how does the damage compare?
valid elk
I macro'd it with my Avatar ๐
sick sentinel
Just press it for damage or for IPs'( since the 400 AP is good for IP)
@valid elk bad idea
Because one of them is on the GCD and the other one is not
So you are wasting a sec
valid elk
It doesnt waste any time? It uses it when Avatar is popped
sick sentinel
And you are wasting half the active when you ava->charge
valid elk
True
merry bane
that crit proc though
merry bane
I had like a steady 300-400 crit the wholezight of zekvoz
sick sentinel
I had it proc 3 times in 1 min ( no ovelaps)
sick sentinel
I'm pretty sure it is 2
sick sentinel
Bad rng
open bluff
yeah
but it seems to average out to about 1 ppm from my testing, have it on my dk as well
sick sentinel
I would check my logs, not now though because I'm on my phone
Through a quick look I get between 20-30% uptime on rezans on 5-6 min bosses
So no 2ppm, false info, sorry
zinc creek
I'm running jes howler and lion's. I replaced 360 rezan's with lion's
same with others, I stopped using blockades
merry bane
is jes better than rezan?
zinc creek
I think so yes, the versatility it gives to you and to your teammates is good
merry bane
so if I got a jess. woul dit replace a blockade?
open bluff
well
open bluff
"better" is subjective, the two trinkets do different things
and yes, trinkets are largely situational
zinc creek
it's up to your comfort level. looking at my logs, I can say that I get more benefits from jes howler than the blockades
merry bane
I am thinking more on surivability
open bluff
it also depends on your other trinket, if you're running for example vial or the arathi crit on-use trinket i wouldn't use jes unless it was your only other option
open bluff
jes is a nice support trinket in that it gives up to 4 other people a modest burst of vers, but it's not necessarily the best for personal survival because even the bonus vers doesn't add up to the amount of vers you would have gotten if nobody was in 20y (plus it's not reasonable to ask people to back off 20y so you can hog jes to yourself)
if you're looking for pure personal survival, blockades is generally better because its effect isn't split, and now that the deck shuffling scales based on haste (it didn't do this at launch, and the tooltip doesn't exactly make it clear that this happens) it's a lot better than it looks at first glance
that said, it's not worth much if you aren't dying
merry bane
I perfer personals
chilly brook
Well looks like life might be looking up
Itโs only a 3/8 guild but hey at least theyโre taking me and Iโll actually be raiding again
open bluff
as far as your other trinkets:
- syringe is more of an offensive trinket, but the stacking crit is also a modest amount of parry that shouldn't be ignored
- vial is also more of an offensive trinket, but str = armor and stamina so it's a sizeable burst of both offense and defense when first used
merry bane
as I mentioned earlier the vial is like a personal defensive almost
chilly brook
Meh I personally use trinkets offensively
open bluff
if you're not in danger of dying in the content you're running, i'd run syringe + vial
chilly brook
I donโt think Iโve been in a situation where holding a trinket for an ability would have saved me
open bluff
or if you just need an extra cooldown, vial is still one of your best options
chilly brook
Personally Iโm using Syringe and Fathoms
Youโre pretty hard pressed to beat Fathoms DPS wise
open bluff
meh, most dangerous thing for me is the zek combo if i have netflix up
chilly brook
Lol
My question though at this point is does vial beat Syringe damage wise?
Cuz I have a 375 vial
open bluff
but yeah i generally run fathoms + big red button most of the time and fathoms + lion's strength for cleave
though fathoms + button is basically the DPS trinket combo for str tanks (based on pal and dk sims)
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
chilly brook
Well
I actually think that a high ilvl Rezans would be better than button
And if you could get a 370/380 Incessantly Ticking Clock that would probably be your BiS damage wise
open bluff
well, i'm basing that claim off of how trinks sim for bdk/prot pal
plus my button's 380
chilly brook
Yea
open bluff
(though i do have a 370 rezan's)
open bluff
the main problem with button is its value plummets with a second target in the reticle
but if you can use it on CD against only a single target it's pretty solid
if i remember to change my trinkets up or if i get a higher ilvl rezan's in my weekly chest i'll try to compare the two next week
merry bane
button? is it that big red button from motherlode?
open bluff
yeah
open bluff
I'm still using a 350 on my BDK because nothing outdoes it offensively on single target (plus BDK is boring as hell so it's really just a well geared alt)
merry bane
my alt is a Holy Priest
open bluff
I use it ST on my warrior because, well, it's 380
(Plus all my warrior has gotten this week is fucking trinkets)
primal crypt
yikes
merry bane
hate explosive
sick sentinel
Nope
Anything is better than it
explosive is pretty skate when you run a full melee comp.
pretty chill.
+/- a hunter
manic perch
Quick Question we are stuck on Ghuun HC, our DPS is too low and we also 3 tanking it so we can deal with the adds properly because we need to wait for 3rd bloodfeast. Can you only have 2 laser beams or can you run a 3rd time?
amber siren
2 is the maximum
manic perch
sigh so ideally you dont want to 3 tank it or need to wait for bloodfeasts.....
amber siren
Ideally you'd have 2 blood feasts, one for tanks/healers/orb runners and then everyone for the second where you'd place the last orb and kill the add at the same time
sick sentinel
What my old guild did for bloodfeast in hc was have 1 tank/all healers/range for first feast, other tank/all healers/melee 2nd feast and 3rd feast everyone
So that adds are mangeable and can be killed as well as lessen the damage for the dot
You can switch whether range go first or 2nd doesn't matter so long as clear the debuff from everyone on 3rd feast then laser right away
Also save lust for phase 3, but you have to make sure he's below 80% before laser
And tell ur melee to spread I can almost guarantee ur having people getting hit by the knockback
manic perch
non stop yes and people eating orbs like idiots....
manic perch
felt so bad as im shouting at them, watched an orb come from front through boss into range that just doesnt move took like 10 sec to reach him he still ate it
manic perch
we are small limited guild if we bench we dont raid lol
sick sentinel
Understandable
But yeah even if ur dps is low, which idk how low ur talking, the dps won't matter if ur healers are healing through so much unnecessary damage
Also during the lasers, tell ur healers to not waste big cds
manic perch
when we hit P3 they are oom pretty much
sick sentinel
Yeah, HC ghuun is not an easy fight
manic perch
reminds me of Cata Ragnaros HC... was also OP if you had lemmings in ur team
sick sentinel
It took us a week and a half(3 raid nights) before we downed hc ghuun
How fast do you usually clear on one night?
In hc
manic perch
in a Hour we can get to Zul if they all bring A game, normally Zul and Mythrax keeps us busy for another hour depending how much they screw up
so would say 2 hours then we at Ghuun normally
sick sentinel
Yeah that's normal
Do you have like a m+ weekly requirement?
Because that's free gear from the weekly chest
Again, my old guild had a do 1 m+ for the week at a specific level
So for 2 weeks it'd be 6, then 7, then 8
Don't have to time it, just do it
Because you can fix people's bad behavior but gear will still be what can get you through phases faster
manic perch
well not really mandatory but from our guild there is only 5 peeps that can actually make a 10 in time, then we slave off carrying others to 10's also and since i'm the most geared tank i'm normally the one sitting 1hour 20min trying to get them through a 10
chilly brook
@manic perch ideally you donโt three tank it, that being said itโs perfectly doable with the 3 tank strat. But if your DPS is failing on 3 tank I donโt think losing the tank for another DPS will help much, probably too many people underperforming
Hell my aotc kill was 3 tank and I did it over a week before my old guild finally killed him
manic perch
yeah its just so many people making simple mistakes, we call out dodge the orbs when they moving through the raid and people still just eat it...
outer dew
hate to break this to you
manic perch
people also stack with orbs.....
manic perch
lol yeah
merry bane
how about putting a mole machine up, and telling everyone that clicks it gets a buff
I got half a raid finder with it
manic perch
we were unlucky twice with a feast where it targetted orb runner that just fell down
also 1 time it feast on a guy with orb debuff.... rip
outer dew
????
you're fucking up
ghuun if that ever happens
lol
6th will never get orb
4th and 5th should already be OTW before first feast anyway
manic perch
yes they are, but as the orb runner coimpleted and dropped down het got targetted by a feast immediately think it was our 3rd feast strat
outer dew
that
manic perch
and it was right at the front so 1/2 raid couldnt drop stacks
outer dew
sounds like a personal responability issue
LMAO
why would you ever
do three feast?
manic perch
yeah yeah dont wanna go into that ๐ alot of people doing dumb stuff like i see orb going to hit a guy a call it out and hes still plays it off "no i saw it i was gonna move" or he runs to stacking point with orbs about to pop out of his anus and says " no i saw it i can angle it away" sigh....
outer dew
amazing
manic perch
we do 3 feasts cause if we do 2 the boss is only at 30%
manic perch
lol nope we have some duo runners to help out so we lose alot of dps there
outer dew
i
you know what
I'm not even gonna pretend
to understand what happens
in some heroic runs
lmao
tulip pond
Do you have any logs to show @manic perch ?
manic perch
yep look its not easy cause we are mostly casual raiders with a few guys trying to push... also we play with average of 190ms so sometimes that can cause nonsense like we lost 4 people due to latency on 1 pull we also went 2/4/9 to get mythrax ๐
yes i do we had 20 odd pulls last night
ill post it in log-review
sick sentinel
@outer dew if ur progging ur going to 3 feast
outer dew
hmm
sick sentinel
I did 3 feast on both my kills, it's not bad
sick sentinel
U 3 feast but the 3rd is followed right away with laser
outer dew
i see
manic perch
logs are up for those who like to chuckle and help out ๐
chilly brook
When you three tank having more than 2 feasts isnโt a big deal
sick sentinel
We made it a bit more easier because our rg would increase or decrease everytime, bewteen 14-18
chilly brook
Thatโs the whole point of three tanking
It makes the add basically not a big deal
sick sentinel
I didn't three tank it, just normal 2 tank
sick sentinel
Oh yeah I know just mentioning it
If it's doable with a normal setup, u will find it much easier(I think idk) with three tanks
chilly brook
It doesnโt really matter either way
manic perch
yeah think the normal setup with just 2 tanks and 2nd feast would be much easier
healers wont bee OOM in p3
sick sentinel
With more time, practice and gear ull get it
chilly brook
From what it sounds like his group has quite a few people underperforming
Hold one
On*
manic perch
we have average of 370 ilvl throwing more gear wont make much of a difference i think
sick sentinel
Yeah some dps were too close in damage with tank
manic perch
from what they said they are like below 40% mana before P3
chilly brook
Because p3 is pure attrition
So them going oom in p3 isnโt out of the question
Because itโs ramping damage
manic perch
no we got into it twice when people dont fuck up
chilly brook
Are they using mana potions?
manic perch
yes they are
chilly brook
And Iโm assuming a lot of people are taking unnecessary damage from what youโve told me
manic perch
yes orbs and wave
sick sentinel
Like I said earlier, gotta call them out
manic perch
yes we running 3/4/13 basically
tulip pond
I'm terrible at reading logs but from what I see almost none is saving a cds for the beam to push the boss to 20 %
In general CD usage is poor, like on your 16 % try your retri pala used AW only once
sick sentinel
Yeah when he linked me logs I saw way too many issues
outer dew
that on one of their good pulls
the paladin dumped damage
right before lust
LMAO
the guy
literally popped the fuck off
before lust
LMAO
literally missed the damage increase window
holy fuck
i'm wheezing
chilly brook
There are 7 DPS below 10k on that boss...
sick sentinel
That's progress for you, learning from mistakes
Some people are better than others at learning
chilly brook
Thatโs a huge problem
I honestly donโt know if you can kill Gโhuun with that many people sandbagging
outer dew
aite real talk
sick sentinel
Yeah, ur healers are fine(excluding ur paly)
sick sentinel
Ur dps needs to be wiped into better shape
outer dew
like, are you sure you want to be doing 3 tanking this fight?
like if your DPS is this low
and really prone to dying
you want to be doing your best to push the fastest
manic perch
i dont want to but i feel like we need to....
chilly brook
You need better players to be doing DPS and you also need to replace that Paladin healer because heโs the reason your healers are going oom
outer dew
because it seems like your dps just drop like flies
i like
your ele shaman
he's running the pad/parsing build
tulip pond
From what I see, one DHs meta, one lock's DS:M and the pala's AW somewhat line up with lust on the 16 % wipe
outer dew
wait wait
tulip pond
Didnt see others
outer dew
LMAO
FUCK
ME
holy shit
this guy
got me
wheezing
there's something wrong with this guy
he literally is sitting at full mael most of the time
and when it matters
he didn't generate any
until liek halfway throguh lust
sick sentinel
Also Sam, ur group needs to do a lot of more interputs on phase 1. Too many people have only 1 kick
sick sentinel
It doesn't matter if they cast is about to finish, it needs to be interputed more
manic perch
i stunned a couple but seems like it doesnt pick up with shockwave
manic perch
@outer dew its because on every single pull some one screws up royally, we also reset Ghuun a few times to avoid full wipes
sick sentinel
Yeah stuns are fine but so few kicks across 9 dps
outer dew
wtf happened to your mage
he just stopped casting scorch
to fish for pyroblast
the ranged memer
that can cast and walk with 100% crit
manic perch
think that was a pug
manic perch
our mages play frost and arcane
outer dew
and doing fuck all for 30 seconds
should be playing fire/arcane for that fight
if you're struggling
sick sentinel
Eh
outer dew
fire can burst in the dps window
- execute with scorch
can do all the mechanics
while spamming scorch
to fish for pyro
sick sentinel
DPS is going to be low even if u use good specs but people are fucking up
outer dew
i mean, you gotta learn how to optiimize
i'm kinda amazed
ngl
that you have so many people die and got to 14%
sick sentinel
Can't stop windowlickers with a rocket launcher to not lick the window
Realistically speaking, because u said u have a small raid group u have to get them in better shape
outer dew
btw
is there any reason
why some of your dps
have actual
2-3 minute gaps
of literally afking/]
manic perch
some are orb runners and some people run with orb runners incase they fuck up, or need to help when they fucked up, is there anyone specifically you referring to?
manic perch
could be the orb runners
outer dew
no one orb walks
manic perch
names?
manic perch
yes they orb run we had them stand out of raid to not get the wave debuffs
outer dew
Achilock