I've had some packs almost one shot me
#protection
outer dew
daring marlin
jk my friends hate M+
lavish oracle
KR is where I notice it most
daring marlin
fucking lameasses
outer dew
I'll be gone for the weekend
outer dew
This is the best week for push :P
gray wolf
anyone else just running liek a madman away from zul in kings rest?
daring marlin
weeeeeeee M+ sucks this expac
outer dew
Lol
daring marlin
probably will
lavish oracle
M+ feels better this xpac to me
lavish oracle
Way more varied
outer dew
I had someone in my m+ groups give me a 200k g pet because he heard of my 40k reforge cost
daring marlin
but yeah this week is a really good meme
outer dew
:DD
daring marlin
40k reforge?
outer dew
Yea
outer dew
I raid as arms and m+ as prot
ionic fern
Don't think i've ever reforged.
outer dew
Lol
ionic fern
o.o
outer dew
But I think with one of our tanks missing
gray wolf
what's ppls statweights like?
lavish oracle
What are you reforging so much for?
ionic fern
'I raid as arms and m+ as prot'
daring marlin
raiding and M+ing of course
outer dew
Guild is considering me to be one of core tanks
daring marlin
It's k
outer dew
Because I only enjoy pushing keys as a tank
daring marlin
SHOW THEM
lavish oracle
I just have separate sets, lol
daring marlin
tanking is fun
outer dew
If I'm using lower dps sets I feel like I'm holding the raid back
But that's a personal hinf
Thing*
gray wolf
🤔
daring marlin
fake and gay
daring marlin
you're standing near people
gray wolf
nope 🤔
outer dew
No, that looks right
lavish oracle
I believe it, i thought i was hot shit with 20%, lol
sick sentinel
It's the same thing with me and my guild, I'm the only one pushing keys and one of our tanks has decided to swap to dpsing so they want me to tank
Also those stats make sense
outer dew
But yea, this week is a puggable week for let's to push guil :P.
gray wolf
made me feel weak af
daring marlin
380 my dude
outer dew
Barely hit 381 this week qq
daring marlin
living that hydrocore life
outer dew
Don't like using my sockets because lower ilvl
daring marlin
M+ is a bitch when it comes to loot drops
except for people with me
sin rogue getting a 395 belt
outer dew
I'm just happy I go the freehold mount
outer dew
Might try tomorrow morning or Monday
sick sentinel
TD is easy except 3rd boss
outer dew
3rd is one of the easiest
sick sentinel
God forbid ur fucking dps move bombs
gray wolf
tank can almost do it alone tbf
sick sentinel
I always do it alone
But on tyran weeks it's like the retard scale just goes to 11
outer dew
The first boss is a huge gear check imo
vocal nimbus
2nd and 3rd are almost as easy as the bloodsucker of ataldazar
sick sentinel
With pugs
sick sentinel
The first boss is the tone setter of the dungeon in TD @outer dew
daring marlin
accurate
outer dew
Btw. How do you guys path tol?
sick sentinel
Straight line
outer dew
I puppy everything in front and just death skip cannons
I feel like cannons waste too much time
sick sentinel
Since I'm a Smith unless we have a rogue I open gates
daring marlin
same
sick sentinel
Otherwise what the "craziest" thing I do is double cannon the long walkway
daring marlin
perfect
sick sentinel
Nice
outer dew
You know
daring marlin
yes
sick sentinel
Isn't every week
daring marlin
I love pulling all the trash in front of her
outer dew
Nah, but I can't pull trash into her his wrek
gray wolf
chill boss with no dps check
daring marlin
big d prot deeps
sick sentinel
Ok but is it 2 or 3 chest
outer dew
Was a depressing one chest
daring marlin
pats
sick sentinel
Because according to this Reddit post, not finishing Atal in 7 means ur trash
outer dew
I wanted to rope myself
daring marlin
eh
shrine ain't too bad, just bring a rogue
overpull some stuff before second boss and skip all the lame packs before third
ez
vocal nimbus
You can pull whatever you want into priestess bloodsucker if you can tank the dmg
The bloodsucking does her % damage
sick sentinel
Shrine is fine this week, at worst ur hardest fight will be the 2nd because
Ur dps keeps telling you to "move the boss out of the Swift ward"
daring marlin
second guy is less annoying at least
sick sentinel
"Shes doing Soo much damage"
outer dew
I mean
outer dew
I hated the Nerf to second boss
sick sentinel
The bug fix?
outer dew
I mean, you actually have to let her cast for awhile
Nah, I hate you can Dodge shockwavr
daring marlin
madlad
outer dew
So if he turns to cast the fort circle
He sometimes cast shockwave right away
Without turning back to me
So I can't control cleave direction
I can tank the the cleave fine
sick sentinel
Well, that's on ur group to press wasd or mouse click move
outer dew
My dps can't
sick sentinel
Good
daring marlin
welp
sick sentinel
Let them suffer
Definitely not because I've killed my own pugs
Ever
Especially not on purpose
outer dew
You also know you're not suppose to kick when she has the buff right :P
Some groups will spawn like 50 blowbacks
And makes me want to end myself
Trudging about with cleave slow and dodging those blowbacks
sick sentinel
Well now that cleave is stationary it's less of an issue to get hit
sick sentinel
Well tommorow is looking very fruitful for me, I got +12 shrine on me, need to that UR and Temple at +12 and I will be 10/10 with +12 dungeons
outer dew
Easy life
sick sentinel
Gonna keep pushing see how far I get with the key
outer dew
@soft kindle never see you in prot anymore
sick sentinel
I have +2 ml/FH today
sick sentinel
Almost +2 TD but we fucked up on 3rd boss
soft kindle
holding out for 8.1, IP off the gcd
daring marlin
Those were two of them I +2’d lol
soft kindle
fuck yahs
outer dew
Lmao
daring marlin
ayyy brother
outer dew
I've given up trying to play arms qq
sick sentinel
Why?
soft kindle
downtime anyway atm, raid logging for farm and pushing keys, mostly it
daring marlin
I want people in my raid to log on so we can kill some mythic bosses
outer dew
Not my cup of tea
daring marlin
want that vectis asserite
outer dew
As a dps I want to constantly top damage
And it bothers me if I don't
I don't enjoy the numbers game
sick sentinel
I need to start going and pugging Mythic to get my helmet from M-m-m-Mother
daring marlin
Love that helm
daring marlin
jerk
sick sentinel
It has veins and visage right?
outer dew
Yeam
outer dew
With brace for impact or archive
sick sentinel
Coolie-u
outer dew
A very nice helm
sick sentinel
Well since I'm gonna be raid tanking I'm sure fucking not using Archive on it
That'll be for the chest
daring marlin
rock dat double archive
outer dew
Most of my raid didn't show up today
daring marlin
all the str
daring marlin
loil
vocal nimbus
Does array weeks which you didnt complete get wasted?
daring marlin
that sucks
outer dew
Yes
sick sentinel
Yes
vocal nimbus
Unlucky
outer dew
What's your current prog Guil? You're on Sarg too right?
sick sentinel
Just do lfg
daring marlin
I don’t wanna talk about it
outer dew
Oof
vocal nimbus
Im like at 5 or 6
outer dew
You're not the meme I joke about all the time right?
daring marlin
People don’t log on and it feelsbadman
daring marlin
We kill the easy mythic bosses
outer dew
I mean, you're on Sarg, there's plenty of options to choose from :P
sick sentinel
I'm fine with my hero prog, I'll push M+ as my version of mythic raiding
daring marlin
yeah but alliance memes
sick sentinel
Not mines
daring marlin
pretty much
sick sentinel
Of course the server named after a traitor is full of Alli who betrayed the call to join the real faction
daring marlin
Just seems like recruitment is booty since there are so many guilds at the prog we are
nawmean?
outer dew
I mean, do you really like your guild?
outer dew
Wdym
If I got offered a spot in 7/8M guild I'd take it :^)
But yea, once you cross Zek/Vectis hurdle
You'll get more luck with recruiting
sick sentinel
I really need to check my realm raid status for mythic prog
outer dew
Like I have remenants of my old guild apply to my current ATM
daring marlin
I wouldn’t. I like these dudes. Just wish we could raid more than 3 hours a week. I’m sure next tier will be more productive, though.
vocal nimbus
Zek and vec were a joke compared to fetid, for me that is
outer dew
Holy shit
outer dew
3 hours a week is not gonna get many people
daring marlin
which is why lol
outer dew
Everyone CBA to do prog
daring marlin
cuz lack of people coming
vocal nimbus
40 people on wednesday
sick sentinel
Yeah, mines usually 6-7 hours a week doing raid prog
vocal nimbus
18 in thursday
outer dew
You guys still do heroic Farm for prog night?
Or just in general
40 people on
And yea. I think fetid is the more mechanically challenging boss
daring marlin
Damn shenko dafuq lol
sick sentinel
Me? No, we've downed ghuun twice and that's what the leader wanted. Now it's drunk heroic/normal nights
daring marlin
G’huun is a blast on heroic
outer dew
I'm just thankful it's short wipes
daring marlin
got that priest grabbing people into pizza slices
outer dew
Fetid/Zul prog at least isn't gonna be 9 minute oills
daring marlin
good meme fight
outer dew
Pulls*
vocal nimbus
And free resets if its a wipe
sick sentinel
Funny enough when I joined the guild they were stuck on Hero Zek, I came in as arms and got them to phase 3
outer dew
Mhmm
sick sentinel
Now I'm tanking cause the Brewmaster wants to dps since he only took over cause the last tank left
So now I can play God in a raid of 17+ people
daring marlin
welp
vocal nimbus
Sound like a pretty memeable raid
outer dew
You can do mythic cross realm
outer dew
Or I could mean with you on my mage :^)
You can get pumped, but ya still need a roster
daring marlin
THAT’S THE PLAN FRIENDO
outer dew
Meme*
daring marlin
Actually
daring marlin
Funny story
outer dew
Yea
daring marlin
My GM paid for a dude’s transfer
outer dew
But I only have 1-2 rogues in guild
sick sentinel
Damn
sick sentinel
Fuck come back on, he name and faction changed I bet
daring marlin
he’s apparently friends of a friend so he’ll be back next week
Just fucking hilarious tbh
outer dew
Jfc
sick sentinel
He better be worth that server transfer
outer dew
So uh guil. I'm looking to plant my mage somewhere I can do mythic farm :^)
daring marlin
Not even mad. M+ has been a blast this week.
outer dew
Ya got any space?
daring marlin
We have so much melee it’s gross
sick sentinel
Lol
daring marlin
HEY MAYBE
junior igloo
Why transfer before trial?
sick sentinel
I want the next raid to be unfriendly to range and have people lose it since uldir is not melee friendly
outer dew
Or group of friends for raids
sick sentinel
Don't trust anyone
daring marlin
not even yourself
outer dew
Is uldir that meele unfriendly?
daring marlin
I’m gonna go sleep finally, YOU GUYS HAVE FUN
outer dew
I don't find it that terrible as a meele
soft kindle
kinda, on a few fights
outer dew
As long as your comp isn't like 10x meele
sick sentinel
Fetid/Myt/Ghuun/Zek
soft kindle
Fetid, mythrax, ghuun, and Zek are all kinda Monka
it gets bad when you pass like 5 or 6 melee
sick sentinel
^
soft kindle
like, noticeable jump in difficulty
amber siren
P much no raids have been melee stacking friendly so not sure how Uldir is any worse than the usual mythic raid 👀
sick sentinel
Even taloc can be a problem because of pools and down time on dps
soft kindle
mythrax and fetid are specifically notorious for giving melee a 🖕
amber siren
Taloc isn't melee unfriendly wat
sick sentinel
To an extent
soft kindle
taloc doesn't really count, because he's a meme first boss
amber siren
Is your definition of melee unfriendly like having a mechanic or something
sick sentinel
Yeah true
soft kindle
No, my definition of melee unfriendly is a boss becoming exponentially harder when you have more than 4-5 melee, not counting tanks
which fetid and mythrax specifically do
Zek and Ghuun are slightly more forgiving, but still not great for having melee heavy comps
amber siren
No one's arguing that melee stacking is harder
That's every raid
Uldir has been pretty good for the course though
sick sentinel
Well yeah, if ur not taking in all melee it's fine
Otherwise good fucking luck
It's that when half of all the bosses or more require so much movement that u can end up losing dps, I start to look at it as having an issue
Mythrax can go fuck himself, I actually afk during P1 because he always picks me to get the ruiner debuff
So I pop dstance and wait at the back and have some call phase 2 since I alt tab
amber siren
sick sentinel
I'd love to make bullshit up, but a) I wouldn't be living up to my name and 2) fuck mythrax
vocal nimbus
astral crystal
Dude just tank mythrax and forget those worries :^)
void marten
is 40% haste good enough?
next goblet
where is the latest ptr notes? i wanna see what prots lookin like
vocal nimbus
You can browse the usual sites like mmo-c or wowhead
next goblet
i just found them lol
it'll make m+ tanking slightly easier
im guessing we'll want a bastion of might piece though?
cobalt trellis
does ilvl of weapon have more value than stats?
having 360 weapon versa/mast + avoidance and could get the 370 pvp conquest 1hand weapon
i think it has haste/crit.. not sure tho
amber siren
yes ilvl is still better
cobalt trellis
ok i thought so too, thx for clarifying
silent epoch
Question : i got ghuun trinket for tanking heroic titanforged 395
Is it good for solid tanking?
It give me 183 vers and turn into something i dont what it do
tight tree
m+ will be slightly easier but prot still will be undesireable, class mostly the same
buffs are very minor, blood and bm nerfs are even smaller
we need way way more to be competetive in m+
but noone cares, if one want to push for real they rerolled blood months ago
junior igloo
@cobalt trellis
Higher item level weapons also have more stats
rancid sedge
the best thing in protect is devastator spam
ember arrow
Oof
urban walrus
👌
vocal nimbus
Btw still no info about wether or not mastery is being reworked right?
astral crystal
nope
coral dew
What do you guys think would be a good rework for mastery if they did rework it? Or no change necessary
warped hound
something like healing a % of your ignore pain might be nice
uneven mason
Mastery wont' be reworked
And they're never going to give prot warriors a self heal beyond what we've already got
expecting to be a self sustain tank = keep dreaming, I'd rather be a mitigation tank anyway
just wish we had some "scaling"
with how many mobs we pull
beyond the minor 5 mob limit on ITF
astral crystal
i think all tanks should have a degree of self heal
uneven mason
I think that we all should have a reactive method of saving ourselves
even if its on a longer CD
but I'd rather just not take that 30% damage
than heal it back up
the issue is our mitigation doesn't scale as well as BDK self healing
or Monks stagger
it relies on gear, and active abilities, rather than being passive
if say the added something like "IP absorbs X(current value) + 25% of all damage taken in the past 5 seconds"
that would be a reactive method of protecting ourselves
get chunked - IP becomes stronger
possibly enough to let the healers "catch up"
cobalt trellis
itf?
frosty wedge
to a max of 15%
uneven mason
15% of total haste*
cobalt trellis
ooh nvm ok thx
uneven mason
makes you wonder why they ever nerfed Punish
like Punish could be 8%
and ITF at 4-5 stacks would compete
lusty grotto
morning warries
frosty wedge
I'm actually sad I'm going away this weekend - this week's m+ affixes are so easy
we spam ran like 6 10-12s in like 2 hours last night
astral crystal
a reactive ability to save ourselves, totally, but it shouldn't be significant enough to shift survivability over to that end
frosty wedge
so fun
uneven mason
right
sand egret
can confirm this week has been fun haha
uneven mason
So, lets bring back Enraged Regeneration
astral crystal
instead we get a trait that gives you a free IP when you cast avatar :^)))) thanks blizzard :^))))))))))))))))))
uneven mason
2min CD 20% + 10% HoT
astral crystal
yeah i'd be down with it being on a minute or 2 min CD
uneven mason
Atticusw that is an amazing trait
astral crystal
that's pretty fair
astral crystal
yeah yeah i know the math behind it
sand egret
i like that trait...
astral crystal
it's still lackluster imo
sand egret
its a great example of a trait that’d be a 2-piece bonus imho
frosty wedge
rage dumping dring avatar making all CDs come back up is SUPER powerful
DC is an added bonus that they didn't consider the synergy of
but avatar on CD was always going to be a thing
uneven mason
well Dragon's roar IIRC Is far more competitive with UF now
you gain about the same amount of RPS
DR is substantial burst
sand egret
wish it had a 90% slow that diminished to 50%
uneven mason
and has uses for situations like, Zek soldier ants
astral crystal
that seems sus to me mactier
lusty grotto
50% slow is really good, but does it compete dps-wise with UF is the question
uneven mason
🤢
sand egret
or have us a much larger damage boost during it
compete as a higher bursty alternative
lusty grotto
i mean
sand egret
not sayin UF aint
lusty grotto
DR is buffed by avatar too
sand egret
just tryin to carve out it a bit more
sand egret
it ideally is a “situational” choice of the dps you want
frosty wedge
will it be as good as being able to spam tclap every other global though?
lusty grotto
can you max extend Demo with DC without UF though?
frosty wedge
in 8.1 that doesn't matter
lusty grotto
i mean hit the 6 sec cap
it still does matter
demo is a sizeable chunk defensively
6 seconds are worth it
frosty wedge
oh, yeah you should be able to, depending on haste
frosty wedge
^
lusty grotto
so i suppose RPS and DPS
frosty wedge
I can't see not taking UF still
lusty grotto
though you do gain 10 rage by using DR and it's on a 35s cd
this involves some math!
frosty wedge
true, but tclap has a 6 sec CD and generates 5 - 3 sec for 5 rage with UF
lusty grotto
but i'm never gonna stop Bootyclapping 👢 🍵 👏
frosty wedge
I have to imagine the RPS is higher wih UF
lusty grotto
yeah
pretty sure UF still has a sizeable edge
plus the slow isn't really needed if you have a good comp COUGHMAGECOUGH
frosty wedge
I mean tclap already has a 20% slow
that's the same as keg smash
not as good as my OP as fuck BDK's 90% D&D slow though, lol
frosty wedge
how so?
lusty grotto
dunno not a lot of info on pins and stuff
i guess you find all info in their site
altered time or whatever
lusty grotto
wonder why there are 2 monk discords now
there's Peak of Xuen now
i only had peak of serenity
frosty wedge
oh weird, I didn't know about the other
lusty grotto
yeah was just checking the class discord list in #148872210742771712
now there's 2 of shaman, hunter, monk and i think the 2 priest ones already existed
DH is now one, instead of 2 since marduum died
frosty wedge
that's super weird
storm isle
what trinket would you guys ditch for Rezhans, jes' howler or Darkmoon deck Blockades
runic hare
Blockades
signal plover
Maybe there's a warrior discord where they advocate an indom build
Called like
Groundhold
uneven mason
TFW you start working on Fetid and the paladin co tank thinks he's gonna be funny and "get you 1 shot" and decides he'll take melee and you take thrash
ate a full Thrash to the face
didn't die
came REAL close tho
storm isle
sounds fun
uneven mason
193k
dapper sky
Shouldn't you be taking thrash and pally taking Boss?
open bluff
pally is the better OT for fetid
between shield block and having a cd almost always up, prot warr should have a pretty easy time MTing
the only advantage pally has over warr for MTing is being able to heal from time to time
dapper sky
Yeah I'm with a DK and I MT it but I figured with pally we would be better on thrash
open bluff
nah
dapper sky
Maybe not
open bluff
SOTR is a chunk of armor for every thrash
frosty wedge
DK is better for thrash
open bluff
shield block is a guaranteed block on every thrash
frosty wedge
you just heal yourself for everything
twin stirrup
Has anyone done the math for what azerite is best for offensive and defensive purposes for prot warrior?
open bluff
check the pins
twin stirrup
Some graphs would be sweet 😃
dapper sky
Yeah I mean you can SB and pretty much IP every thrash so I'd venture to say warrior is better for thrash, however even worse for pally is 100% tanking uptime so I guess it makes sense
open bluff
and follow the link to the guide
frosty wedge
I think pally selfheal would make them a better thrash tank
and warrir is better dmg mitigation for mT
open bluff
yeah, the main thing with pally/warr for MT/OT is the fact that pally has nothing once SOTR is down
signal plover
They have lot
open bluff
compared to warrior not really, they have two heals and two cds with no real way to use anything but AD more than once
warrior CDs are up much more often and you'll almost always have something up
uneven mason
Also
twin stirrup
There are no graphs or numbers on that "guide" I can only asume that someone is talking out of their ass.
open bluff
...lol
odd ridge
Oh woah
lusty grotto
oh christ
open bluff
yeah, some of the best prots in the world are talking out of their ass
lusty grotto
here we go
uneven mason
it hits the closest target to the tank
odd ridge
As warriors we have low intellect and are unable to produce maths or graphs
sand egret
🍿
lusty grotto
🍿
dapper sky
Yeah that's pretty op. We bopped our DK and used spirit link to Trolololol fetid
lusty grotto
apparently Icy Veins guides are required to have graphs and numbers
uneven mason
and I'll just leech his HP
sand egret
"Pics or it didn't happen"
odd ridge
Somebody open excel, STAT
uneven mason
@twin stirrup Do you require pictures with your novels too, or do you just not read? 😄
sand egret
but ok seriously, is The Tree Amigos not the best nickname for Treants
twin stirrup
I require statistics to make an informed opinion.
lusty grotto
@twin stirrup do you have any specific question about any particular trait? we could do some napkin math over here
uneven mason
Sorry, that was sour, but the guides are legit
the reaso nwe don't have "Graphs" is because the data we have has not been plugged into SimC
open bluff
if you want actual numbers to work with, go fix up the prot warrior simc module
uneven mason
because you shouldn't be simming for tanks anyway 😉
lusty grotto
there is math, but it's behind the scenes. Marok can answer to that
uneven mason
Infact, if you need real numbers just start acting like you know what you're talking about and Marok (or someone) will come down and drop a book filled with statistics on your head 😄
lusty grotto
i'm curious as to what trait he's questioning though
lusty grotto
or which ones rather
open bluff
to be fair
@urban monolith probably made that in raid one night
brewmaster is pretty brain dead
we have plenty of time on our hands over there since we can just afk and not die
odd ridge
Rofl
lusty grotto
lol
urban monolith
why can i not use my brm emoji here :zaoBlobGlare:
lusty grotto
open bluff
sand egret
it's the best nickname!
lusty grotto
honestly though, there's "common sense" value to DC - no math required
paging @fierce juniper, @twin stirrup is demanding math for traits in the IV guide
uneven mason
😨
lusty grotto
(i'm not sure if that will work)
urban monolith
the google doc you linked is intentionally not mentioned in the actual brm trait guide
lusty grotto
2 + 2 = 4
chilly brook
@twin stirrup I mean like what are you actually looking for?
urban monolith
or that ragatokk linked, rather
twin stirrup
I want facts not guesses.
chilly brook
Outside of DC all the prot traits are super close and worth taking if it’s an ilvl upgrade
lusty grotto
probably a graph depicting X value for every trait
chilly brook
That’s not a guess
It’s a fact
DC is also worth having over any realistic ilvl upgrade
That’s also a fact
lusty grotto
and like i said there's no need for math for it
if you understand the value of demo shout
lusty grotto
:graph:
chilly brook
But I guarantee it’s not going to beat that
lusty grotto
whoa there's no graph emoji
twin stirrup
I did not demand that you guys did it, I asked if someone had done it.
I might do it myself at a later time.
lusty grotto
no
chilly brook
There’s no real need
twin stirrup
I played my warrior as alt throughout legion and seems like it will be the same for bfa. bdk/brm are just so much stronger when progressing.
urban monolith
there is value in saying "these traits are bad (relative to DC) and here's why"
chilly brook
We don’t need a graph to show that lol
twin stirrup
Wish I could focus on my warrior :S
chilly brook
Do it
chilly brook
If your group is failing because you’re on prot (unless you’re not playing correctly) you’re not hampering the group
@lusty grotto to be fair my guild just hit 6/8
lusty grotto
my guild is 0/8 lol
twin stirrup
Nim, we are done in mythic now. I said while progressing those are much stronger. Thus not really an option to main.
lusty grotto
top 10 worldwide guild?
chilly brook
That’s not really true but ehhh
twin stirrup
Not an option to go warrior.
chilly brook
While both are better options at not being dead due to your own mistakes
I wouldn’t say playing a warrior isn’t an option
terse oasis
i mean.. warrior probably takes the least overall damage, but they do require more healing than a BDK or probably a DH
lusty grotto
uldir is mostly physical damage though
chilly brook
Depends on the situation
uneven mason
require less healing from outside sources
chilly brook
Blood will require less on thrash for example but barely
tropic star
yeah, comparing logs in mythic raid. warrior tanks are consistently the lowerst on EHPS
chilly brook
And that’s because the fight capitalizes on the damage in last 5 seconds thing
But for the rest yea
uneven mason
If you're dying in 6 when a bRM would die in 12, you've done something wrong as a warrior
lusty grotto
how do you die as a BrM exactly? did you forget to purify?
open bluff
your healers forgot to push their buttons
terse oasis
The only time I see BrM die, is when they get the 100% healing debuff
chilly brook
Sounds like you guys just need to recruit new healers
open bluff
that's literally the only way to kill a brm
terse oasis
and have a high stagger
open bluff
nah, even then
uneven mason
@terse oasis Stagger can't kill you
open bluff
stagger can't kill you, as long as your co-tank is quick at taunting off after second void lash
you can literally let stagger roll off and sit at 1 hp
lusty grotto
that's why i said he might have forgotten to purify
urban monolith
surging darkness can kill you at that point lol
uneven mason
Its literally impossible for a monk to die on Zek unless their co tank is an idiot
neon tangle
Tbh my BrM cotank dies weirdly often on m vectis
chilly brook
What aoe damage on Zek?
uneven mason
or they stand in darkness
open bluff
yeah if you're good at moving out of darkness
lusty grotto
yeesh
open bluff
you can't die
uneven mason
BrM takes damage on Vectis worse than most other tanks
urban monolith
you always get aoe'd by darkness tho
terse oasis
the lightning crap,
uneven mason
he's a truck and puts a DOT that WILL kill you
urban monolith
but ngl i've hit 1hp plenty of times on zekvoz and been fine
open bluff
tbh, that's where you have a disc priest if you're really worried
neon tangle
They also take a lot of damage on zek
lusty grotto
prot pala laughs
uneven mason
95% of what is wrong with warrior is sitting behind the keyboard
lusty grotto
shut up prot pala!
urban monolith
gotten plenty of worthless ironbarks then too
uneven mason
😄
terse oasis
dude, i tried playing prot pally the other day, i fell asleep
open bluff
my first zek kill on brm, i was at 1hp after almost every combo
open bluff
only died once because co-tank was just a little late on a taunt
uneven mason
^^
terse oasis
there's just so little do do on prot pally that feels impactful
neon tangle
If vectis / fetid / zek were tuned to be the last boss I imagine BDK might be the raid tank of choice
terse oasis
face roll buttons, do fine.
chilly brook
Wrath prot pally was fun imo
terse oasis
dude, i loved wrath prot pally
open bluff
pally feels impactful when you run sera and out dps half your 🐒 dps
terse oasis
with reck bombs
uneven mason
Warrior DPS on Zul and Zek, the real MVP
open bluff
tbh if i had a decent shield on my warr i'd prob run that for zul instead of my pally 
but nooo, rngesus insists on fucking me and i'm still stuck with a 340 shield
terse oasis
👢 🍵 👏
neon tangle
Ehhh, but pallies got BoP
chilly brook
Tfw you’re a fury warrior now but you can’t give up #protection
open bluff
yeah, pally is prob the better call since our rets have no idea how to bop
lusty grotto
because people pretend like prot can't tank it
open bluff
but that prot warr aoe
uneven mason
Well
eager hedge
I dont have issues getting into anything as prot warrior though
open bluff
turns p1 into "okay everyone on boss, let the warrior thunderclap adds down"
wintry ermine
vectis is the only fight I feel shitty about as prot right now :<
terse oasis
our raid has currently 0 warriors, i'm stuck maging it up
eager hedge
How come Snorri?
open bluff
yeah vectis is the one fight i hate as a warr/brm
uneven mason
I feel better on my warrior for Vect than my paladin co tank is doing lol
lusty grotto
i love vectis
neon tangle
@lusty grotto considering the average prot warrior I pug with its not surprising
lusty grotto
hmmm sync those SS
wintry ermine
low mitigation on all the magic damage
eager hedge
Just use SR or Demo on 2 stacks
chilly brook
TBH I’d be lying if I said that I didn’t want to find a guild that wanted a tank come next raid tier
uneven mason
0_o
open bluff
but that's more a matter of healer roulette, if the mrs isn't there there's no telling what the fuck kind of heals i'm getting
wintry ermine
im talking mythic only
chilly brook
I mean, SR knocking out a debuff is nice on Vectis
eager hedge
7 apparently 😄
lusty grotto
dat demo shout though
terse oasis
IP helps with magic damage too
lusty grotto
should be better past 8.1
eager hedge
idk about that tbh, i dont feel like its that bad
uneven mason
That is 90% Of my issue a lot of the time
chilly brook
Trialed with one group in heroic and I was about to lose my mind
uneven mason
the healers got used to healing BDK
chilly brook
Their heals were very.....
uneven mason
which is literally don't heal until they're out of runic power and at 20%
chilly brook
Spotty to say the least
uneven mason
while I take forever to hit 20%
but they don't start healing me until I hit that
which I Have to be like HEY, I Know you fell asleep waiting for me to get here, but a heal would be nice.
chilly brook
Died a few times on G’huun due to lack of heals
neon tangle
@uneven mason I feel you there, most of my deaths involved like 15s+ of no heals
wintry ermine
its just a hard healing fight, so taking more damage than normally isn't really nice
lusty grotto
Bad heals is why I'm gearing my hpal
uneven mason
Died on Ghuun due to my co tank (who has one taunt) taunting the ad and then being like "what I taunted the add"
wintry ermine
the only fight I wouldn't mind stepping out on
uneven mason
Like - let the dude who has 2 taunts take the add
chilly brook
I also had to yell at the other tank for taunts
uneven mason
Snorri plan your CD and rage use better 😄 you don't take more damage than normal
chilly brook
That’s not really true
uneven mason
TFW Ghuun has 9 stacks and shield wall is about to fade and the paladin is picking his nose.
neon tangle
Honestly outside of ghuun BDK has a stupid amount of tools that make most of the fights easier
chilly brook
Vectis is going to do more damage than normal for all tanks
However you shouldn’t be taking more than they are
neon tangle
Grips, AMS for zek, taking thrashes on fetid
chilly brook
As a prot warrior
neon tangle
Even the “can’t move me” thing for winds on mother
eager hedge
Thats annoying for the rest of melee though, that the boss isnt moving
lusty grotto
Idk zek is fine mostly with a good druid and vortex
neon tangle
Double taunts for zek/vectis
eager hedge
Dont need double taunt on either of those bosses though?
lusty grotto
If you're talking about the p1 adds
neon tangle
You don’t need it, but it’s certainly easier
eager hedge
p1 adds cant be tanked 😄
uneven mason
warrior has double taunt 😛
chilly brook
Tfw you had 4 Druids in your group and people complained about not being able to keep adds off people
For Zek
neon tangle
Oh wait yeah on zek, just mass grip
lusty grotto
I know that, I'm saying if they are talking about gorefiends or whatever
Vortex works well enough
neon tangle
I’m a little tired lol
chilly brook
Speaking of which isn’t bear getting vortex baseline next patch?
neon tangle
It’s a talent that competes with the charge talent
chilly brook
Ah
lusty grotto
Hmm
neon tangle
Yeah seems like it, although idk exactly how you’d use it
lusty grotto
To be fair bears actually need the help lol
neon tangle
I mean, it only yanks the first mob
chilly brook
Nope
lusty grotto
All of them
chilly brook
It yanks all of them
dusky moon
It'd be nice if the utility was a little more spread out in BfA. The problem is that people complain about pruning, but the only way to 'fix' the utility problem is to either take away spells from classes that have had them for years, or create all new original utility
chilly brook
Anyone who tries to move out of it
dusky moon
and I guess they're struggling with it
lusty grotto
Yeah tyler
chilly brook
It’s only really a problem in m+
dusky moon
yeah, for sure
neon tangle
“The first time an enemy attempts to leave the vortex, winds will pull that enemy back to its center. “
chilly brook
Oh and pvp
neon tangle
Is that not accurate?
urban monolith
the thing about ursol's vs mass is that with ursol's you have to group them up first
chilly brook
Because prot warrior is apparently too good in 3’s that we warrant talent removals
lusty grotto
Well it was a slight problem in legion raids... Cough stampeding cough
urban monolith
cuz its a relatively small area
chilly brook
@neon tangle it literally pulls all enemies that try to leave
urban monolith
whereas mass groups them up for you (and then D&D slows them by 90% lul)
dusky moon
Also a ranged kick with mind freeze
chilly brook
Source: my 120 Druid
neon tangle
@chilly brook ahh, well that’s nifty
dusky moon
Prot warrior (and I'd argue warrior in general) is definitely lacking in utility. hopefully it's a problem they're committed to solving sometime this expac
astral crystal
probably not
neon tangle
^^
astral crystal
devs have a paradisiacal mentality regarding WoW
every time they claim they "know something needs help/love" whatever, it's due to community pressure
with regards to warrior at least
dusky moon
I don't really think that's fair to say, with how things are developed often far in advance. but if you believe that, probably best to start making more noise
astral crystal
tyler
chilly brook
YUUUUGGEE utility
dusky moon
one thing I don't understand is why our fuckin' battle shout is replicatable by a scroll, though
astral crystal
that fall on deaf ears
dusky moon
While monks and DH's (which also have an ungodly amount of utility) get to keep their buff for themselves
that confuses the fuck out of me
amber siren
it was mainly a bandaid fix after legion to keep them in line with other utility
but obv the left hand wasn't doing the same as the right
so double up 👍
urban monolith
monks have an ungodly amount of utility?
dusky moon
no, DH's do
urban monolith
oh, k
amber siren
honestly there were a lot of early decisions in the BfA alpha that weren't looked at again even after the final product
dusky moon
sorry, I put the closed brackets after DH to try and get that point across, but it does look confusing
urban monolith
also yea that debuff is annoying as shit
"no dh? well guess all your casters do 5% less damage"
thx blz
dusky moon
I like that idea, though. I like encouraging different sorts of comps, like double caster DH, or double phys/monk. I don't like that their utility is strictly their own though, while battle shout and fort get put on scrolls
limber wigeon
I mean monks have a cc, an aoe stun, a mass displacement, and a dispel. That's quite a bit.
dusky moon
imo it should ALL be on scrolls/enchants, or none of it should be
urban monolith
none of which are applicable on most raid encounters 🤷
and yea they should give like blacksmith a weapon enchant
that applies the debuff
then you just give one to each of 2 melee
dusky moon
I don't think the utility argument matters as much when you're talking in a raid context, to be fair. It's mostly m+ and pvp that it's magnified
urban monolith
(which you have at least 2 of because tanks)
astral crystal
it kinda does in raids
ring of piss and grip
will never ever not be useful
to be fair though
at least grip hasnt been mandatory this tier
sand egret
those are diff than a 5% buff
urban monolith
RoP had no use on most fights in antorus. you could use it to block things for agg, but it was a glorified knockback
neon tangle
It's hard to say what's going to happen on that front
dusky moon
amazing in m+ though
urban monolith
tru
neon tangle
blizz has said a few times that they know tank balance, especially in m+, is more about the overall kit you bring
urban monolith
uldir is an outlier in the amount of times rop is good
neon tangle
but they haven't said "we know warriors have a kit that doesn't line up well with the current meta"
dusky moon
Blood DK is likely always going to be top in m+ because it's kit is too iconic and integral to be nerfed. They're never going to lose death grip or gorefiend's, or death and decay. But it'd be still be nice for it be closer, so you don't feel like a 'total' waste of space in m+
maybe bring back aoe spell reflect or something
sand egret
well I think the bigger issue is how M+'s are played atm
astral crystal
you think reaping will make much of a difference?
sand egret
if it means less mass pulls, there's less of a need for utility to facilitate such pulls
will it do that? I dunno
dusky moon
I don't think it's even a mass pull problem. maybe at the top, but in general DK just trivializes pretty much every challenge you can find in m+
neon tangle
there's less mass pulls than I expected watching high level BDK keys
dusky moon
The ability to ranged kick, grip, group pulls together, not to mention CC and crush the undead side of Atal'dazar or king's rest
sand egret
in the MDI it was all pulling shit with rogues in tow
neon tangle
it's more about effective kiting w/ D&D, mob control, etc
sand egret
but I get it
dusky moon
and that too, sad
sand egret
boils down to mob control
neon tangle
it's also far easier to kite in the super cramped dungeons we got as a BDK than say a warrior or DH which needs more runway for their mobility
dusky moon
It is frustrating to see that one tank dominates and dunks so thoroughly on every other tank, but not sure how they can fix it
sand egret
slow vsv distance moves
one requires space
which is, as you mentioned, at the mercy of the geometry
cinder nova
I'm disappointed with crawg duty
I'm glad zul is down, but I have to just turn away and tc while holding them at Max range
So I can't even make st zul
sand egret
It's a more complex problem than people think, and I don't think they want to do the knee-jerk answer which is the utilitarian approach.
neon tangle
^^^
sand egret
imho in their world, you want to bring a Warrior to that SotS and BDK over a Monk on Freehold, etc.
dusky moon
I completely agree with you, for sure. DK is strong, but it's strong because of spells they've had for years, or even a decade now. You can't just take them away, or nerf them
Warrior just needs 'something', DK doesn't need less.
sand egret
giving everyone grip would suck and taking away grip woudl suck
sand egret
we need more places to make it shine
dusky moon
they also do a lot of damage
sand egret
damage, is 1-dimensional utility
neon tangle
short-cd AoE stun, lots of damage, fear invuln, fear, demo shout, etc
sand egret
unfortunately
neon tangle
heroic leap, two charges on intercept
point is, we have "utility", it's just not working with the current meta
sand egret
it's also frankly kinda boring
dusky moon
yeah, warrior lacks any real class fantasy so most of our abilities are just
boring as shit lol
Think they're afraid to commit to anything too fancy because warrior is the generic class
sand egret
aoe stuns are a dime a dozen, damage is literally another role, fear invuln is great and class defining, demo shout is basically just a personal cooldown
Spell Reflect, Intercept, Zerker Rage
oblique garnet
Imagine if heroic leaping near adds would pull them all to where you jump
sand egret
those are fun to me
neon tangle
avatar is kinda cool looking, but also just... pretty generic
sand egret
fuck it, go throwback and give it a magic damage reduction like true Mountain King style (well not true, but immunity would be a tad overboard)
but you get the drift, it's just....boring
neon tangle
Total magic damage immunity being overboard? Tell that to pallies 😛
sand egret
it's like we're trying to hype up a Palm Pilot in 2018
dusky moon
bring back the inability to attack in paladin bubble 2018
sand egret
word....nice stylus.....but does it have Augmented Reality?
neon tangle
I think in a vacuum our kit is fairly fine, and I even kinda enjoy it
it's night and day tho when I do m+ on the BDK, grips are dumb af for controlling mobs / keeping extra packs from pulling, just generally dealing with shit
dusky moon
Is there anything interesting in the 8.1 azerite traits?
oblique garnet
this week is fun to do dungeons if you have like a druid or hunters at your party you can just go ham and pull everything
limber wigeon
I'm confused on how fear immunity is considered good? I've found it to be pretty garbage most of the time. I'd be interested in getting the freehold mob toss. I think that would be in class fantasy and different enough from grip.
dusky moon
It's not bad
chilly brook
It’s great on Rezan
dusky moon
And Rezan as well
neon tangle
@limber wigeon It's not good, it's just "utility"
Whether that utility is good/bad depends on the people in your group + the dungeons/raids you're doing
i.e. AoE stuns are good, fears are semi-good, but both are painful when you got a lot of stuff stacking those diminishing returns
fear immunity would be great if there was more unavoidable fears
limber wigeon
Both of those fears are avoidable though, that's the thing.
sand egret
Fear Immunity is good dependending on how impactful the fear is
neon tangle
but as it stands it's mainly nice to just... be lazy?
keep tanking
helps if someone fucks up an interupt on the birds in AD, especially on teeming week w/ the 3 of them
sand egret
if a boss had an un-LoS'able AoE Fear that did 10% of your hp per second and lasted 9 seconds