CTRL + F4 Kedorzar!
#protection
lusty grotto
lusty grotto
wait, it's ALT + F4
inland sedge
Yo, so I don't play Prot at all, but was looking at top warr logs for Mythic Zul and noticed a prot warrior was the top. How is that possible? was looking at the actual logs and didn't quite understand what I was looking at since I don't play the spec
lusty grotto
you can also bind S because S-key-ing is bad and you should feel bad
sick sentinel
@inland sedge padding on the crugs
lusty grotto
Damage logs 
daring patrol
@inland sedge prot DPS is absolutely bonkers in AE
lusty grotto
its 4 months after expansion release and people still dont know prot aoe dps is #1, feelsbadman
lusty grotto
at equal ilvls i don't see why not
signal rune
At +10 fort you cant facetank 1 little pack
sick sentinel
BRAIN THINK HARD
signal rune
Hope thats better on prot
sick sentinel
GIVE EZ BDK NAO
lusty grotto
thunderclap has a range
and you can extend it with thunderstruck
if you ever deadzone kited a hunter back in the day, it should be no issue rofl
or rather the inverse of following a hunter kite while deadzoning
neon tangle
@inland sedge prot warriors do really insane burst AoE dps, BUT it's prolly dumb that they were doing it on zul
Should let the rogues/enh shamans actually turn those crawgs in to more dps on zul
inland sedge
Yeah, I knew prot did good dmg, but I'm more so confused as to how he beat out all the arms warriors w/ WB/BS combo
dusk locust
this is relevant, i'm starting zul prog for the first time tonight. how do i not yank aggro off the DH who's kiting crawgs, spec into devestator?
ivory barn
its amazing how many more groups you get into after 360+ yesterday i couldnt find anything and was 358 and now im 361 and everyone invites u coincidence?
daring patrol
you'll beat pretty much everyone
lusty grotto
ok i'm starting to get triggered by these devastator mentions
this is your fault @signal rune
neon tangle
@ivory barn No worries, I've been denied to 5+ keys at 370 ilvl
lusty grotto
tell him to press immolation aura/sigil harder @dusk locust
ivory barn
all i ever apply to atm is +5's and now i seem to get accepted everywhere. wth lol
neon tangle
Just depends on the day, pugs are horrible, and only get worse as the keys get higher
mighty gulch
I'm still trying to build up my raider.io score to get into +10s
currently at 400 score
done like 20 m+ so far
ivory barn
good to know
my IO aint much better https://raider.io/characters/us/thrall/Ragecapped
neon tangle
Real talk, if you're only gonna pug m+ I'd just roll a BDK, 10 and above it's gonna be pretty hard to find good groups
lusty grotto
if you guys invite my Hpal ill help you out
granted my hpal is 320 ilvl and just dinged 120
yesterday
dusk locust
you have to use your own key
ivory barn
and that IO page is showing me in Fury... wtf
ocean acorn
what do u want it to show
ivory barn
my prot gear
ocean acorn
i see u in prot gear
ivory barn
O.o i refreshed and now its in prot. wtf lol thanks
ocean acorn
u need a better shield
outer dew
not really
i get into +10 and pugs over just fine
lol
you just get more competition as you get higher keys
ivory barn
where would i get a better weapon/offhand?
outer dew
because higher io tanks will want in
ivory barn
is the Brain Trust 2 set any good?
open bluff
you're also more likely to run into "lol prot"
lusty grotto
Atal dazar has both
ivory barn
Atal?
lusty grotto
Motherload has shield as well
There's a few more but you could look them up in wowhead
AD does have like 4+ pieces which are good for us, including those 2 and Rezan trinket
ember arrow
he has to be memeing
prisma crane
if he was memeing he'd use ravager and impending victory
sand egret
@lusty grotto you bound your S key? how do you backwalk mobs then?
neon tangle
@outer dew honestly I've seen a lot of "lol prot"
outer dew
haven't had that happen for NA/Alliance
neon tangle
maybe NA/Horde is more toxic, dunno
prisma crane
I've seen it happen for NA/Alliance
personally
or
"sorry, prot is just not strong enough"
outer dew
interesting
eternal solstice
I have it happen with a 890.io, instant declined. 1k is that big of a deal it seems
prisma crane
(for a 9 atal btw) i was like 371 at the time or something
neon tangle
I've also lost people after they joined the group "sorry, don't want to heal a prot"
prisma crane
that'll help, i havent M+ much this season, did a lot in legion and always play well, but people just blame prot lol
eternal solstice
I'm excited to get 1k so I can never be declined... seems like the magic number
outer dew
it's prob an io thing
prisma crane
you'll still get declined when literally any other 1k tank signs up
save maybe bear
neon tangle
^^ This too
eternal solstice
Gotta push inhouse for that 1k, then test tofu's theory out
uneven mason
My favorite
sand egret
well alliance side I haven't been declined yet, I've gotten the "comments" but I prefer that
uneven mason
is the healers who have a fit when they won't look for another tank
sand egret
since its way sweeter when you prove em wrong
uneven mason
and then refuse to heal/leave the key
prisma crane
well yea, but you can do 99% of the place perfect, then one guy body pulls 2 extra trash packs and you die and it's your fault
uneven mason
I thought it was a myth
prisma crane
ahh pugs are great
uneven mason
until I had it happen to me
prisma crane
yea i had a healer leave on me once
sand egret
well, maybve i've been declined, but I've never had someone explicitly say it was because of prot
uneven mason
I had a healer try and wipe the group and then leave when I self sustained through the train he pulled
sand egret
ohh that was me last night!
uneven mason
Because I was like "Warriors are better than paladins mmk"
outer dew
lmao
sand egret
refused to walk into the very big open room of space because quaking apparently doesn't exist in his world
take one guess who gibbed the other ranged dps and him self
uneven mason
He was going to prove a point by getting me killed
+++ Victory rush spam on explosive mmk
OH 12 mobs, HEALS FOR DAYS MAN
But yeah, my guild healers seek me out
unless that one BDK is available
but thats because that BDK is a BDK
neon tangle
I mean, at this point, I just kinda treat m+ on my warrior as a "need to do for the chest" each week, Not really interested in pushing high keys on it
uneven mason
Pugging is just ๐คข
uneven mason
yeah I do it once a week
neon tangle
It's really absurd how much easier BDK is
uneven mason
Its like a penace
for being an asshole
My GM makes me pug low keys
with her to help out unfortunate souls
outer dew
i started asking for gold
uneven mason
price I pay for getting back on the Mythic raid roster
uneven mason
But yeah basically I tank +5s like they're made out of candy corn
mass pull and just Bootyclap it all down
ocean acorn
i would take an alt
outer dew
to who?
sand egret
and this is why I dont do guilds haha
sand egret
that sounds worse than my pugs =/
uneven mason
yes
outer dew
LMAO
ocean acorn
that sounds terrible
sand egret
i like showing up to +3s
esp ones that are all about the chill run
specifically those, tbh. Mostly because they tend to be people who are self-aware that they got no idea
and I enjoy teaching
neon tangle
my guild which can't kill m zek has an average ilvl of like 375
so nobody really runs keys
sand egret
is that high?
outer dew
to be fair, i get you
sand egret
(i have 0 perspective into raiding)
neon tangle
well, considering we only got 2 bosses of m down
sand egret
I just assume mythic raiders are all 385+
neon tangle
@sand egret also yeah it's fairly high for being only 2 bosses in to m
sand egret
hmm weird
neon tangle
gotta actually -kill- bosses in there to get the gear from them
sand egret
almost there and havent' touched a raid haha
eternal solstice
Well if you were to kill M zek, you'd be a top 500 prot warrior
prisma crane
let's look at a guild like Limit, their last Ghuun kill was raid ilvl of 380
most are not 385+
tulip pond
370 crit haste hands or 365 haste mastery hands with a socket?
sand egret
i dunno man, I dont' really pay attention to raid stuff ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
neon tangle
I mean, sense is 382 or something, and #2 prot warr IIRC
their guild killed m g'huun with a prot warrior and a bear
sand egret
well at least this makes me feel better about not being so far behind
strong forum
I'm 382 in bag ilvl 379 equipped 4/8m
neon tangle
gear certainly slows down above 370
1 piece a week from the chest, then just your boss kills for 385 loot
strong forum
Could be much higher but stuck on 370 ring trinket and boots
sand egret
hmm yeah my goal is to me ~ mythic geared by the end of this tier without actually touching a raid
prisma crane
not gonna happen
sand egret
so we thinking that's like 375?
prisma crane
without zero repeats from your cache
lusty grotto
@sand egret i don't backwalk mobs, i strafe back like everyone should
eternal solstice
385 would be all M geared
sand egret
hmm yeah that does seem tough
prisma crane
he
sand egret
talkin bout gearing
prisma crane
is talking about the gearing
lusty grotto
ohhhhh sorry
prisma crane
i hate hitting enter instead of '
neon tangle
@sand egret no real point in it, only real reason to be m geared is to do mythic raids
sand egret
it's a personal goal
ember arrow
or to push keys
prisma crane
or to overgear M+ to make it easier
ember arrow
if youre masochistic
sand egret
so that's the point
neon tangle
@ember arrow aren't you a BDK?
ember arrow
no
prisma crane
ilvl is relevant for all classes btw
ember arrow
i dont have a sub for 2 months
neon tangle
why are you still hanging around in the tank discords then?
sand egret
Levko is the Dude On the Couch from Half-Baked
ember arrow
i dont like the expansion
prisma crane
steven wright?
sand egret
maybe.... ๐ค
ember arrow
@neon tangle but yes, i play bdk if online, why?
neon tangle
just curious, we were just talking at each other in the BDK discord a few minutes ago
lusty grotto
we have those
balsaq used to do it
hell i've done it
quit wow and still talked here hehe
neon tangle
I generally just disconnect from the community when I'm not playing
sand egret
but did ya really quit?
lusty grotto
yeah i quit from ToS to the end of Legion
signal rune
^
lusty grotto
I did the best boss which was KJ
ember arrow
kj was a good fight
lusty grotto
where i was complimented regularly for taking fel claws like a champ
neon tangle
@ember arrow FWIW the last time I raided was on my prot warrior in cata
lusty grotto
and then facepalmed at people that got raped by it on any class
ember arrow
well warr was suited well for it
but u needed bear roar
and other tanks could do it but less efficient
lusty grotto
yeah
lusty grotto
and bears could take armas np
sand egret
man....I loved my bear in legion
uneven mason
"Bear don't care"
lusty grotto
had to make sure i had NF up for armas ๐ฆ
uneven mason
"Guardian - the BrM of Legion"
lusty grotto
BrM was solid thanks to NH though
uneven mason
yeah it was
but Guardian was basically just stand there and soak it up
ALL the tanks were solid in Legion
sand egret
I just liked Frenzied Death Strike Regeneration
lusty grotto
yeah too bad guardians got deleted in this expansion
uneven mason
no one tank really stood out as "horrible"
sand egret
ehh
uneven mason
Frenzied "LOL300%ofmyhealth"
sand egret
DH's were trash for a while
lusty grotto
they were solid at the end
sand egret
yeah but that was from a bunch of buffs and thankfully scaling
uneven mason
Warriors were just godmode for most mechanics in ABT
sand egret
twas rough early
lusty grotto
but look let's be honest, most people didn't really know how to play VDH in the first half of the expansion
uneven mason
"eat both Foebreakers, yeah, that's a thing"
sick sentinel
what?
lusty grotto
they just went with it because lololimaDHlolol
sand egret
well they hard similar problems to warriors now
lusty grotto
true
sick sentinel
no matter how new a spec it wont take entire xpac to learn it
lusty grotto
it was mostly perception/stigma
signal rune
Vdh wasnt that good either
sand egret
but demon spikes was also parry and not block and hitting that 100% uptime was rough
sick sentinel
maybe one tier but thats it
uneven mason
True story - most BDKs I Know want Warriors to get buffed so they can go back to DPSing in raids
lusty grotto
i agree with that
signal rune
Second half of Legion vdh shone
lusty grotto
for sure
sand egret
yeah, DH really took off with full artifact and some of the buffs
that 15% fire leech was HUGE
ivory barn
gah.... ๐ข not what i wanted from Atal but i guess its a side grade
lusty grotto
i'm glad they did cause they are my 2nd favorite tank class
signal rune
Spirit bomb buff was gud
sand egret
very good
signal rune
Soloing +15 bosses lul
sand egret
I enjoyed tanking as a VDH for the beginning of Legion
sand egret
but went guardian to get that werebear skin
lusty grotto
and BDK is meh
ivory barn
is that a side grade ^?
sand egret
yeah Guardian needs another interaction
lusty grotto
yeah i got all tank mage tower artifacts
sand egret
it's missing one piece in its combat flow
neon tangle
@lusty grotto I've enjoyed my BDK alright, certainly not very challenging to play
lusty grotto
same with BrMs, they are kinda boring at the moment
neon tangle
But deathgrip is fun
ember arrow
@neon tangle did you do relevant ocntent
prisma crane
@ivory barn i'd personally keep the 345s
neon tangle
@ember arrow whatcha mean by relevant content?, on the BDK?
ivory barn
cause of all dat haste loss?
prisma crane
yea 5 ilvls on bracers isnt worth losing that much of haste to me
sand egret
dont think he did
neon tangle
Sorry, to be pedantic enough for you, it certainly feels easier to play than my warrior
ember arrow
bdk overgearing feels like you are playign a single player game
well
even more than wow is already
ocean acorn
how do you quote like that?
lusty grotto
i gotta admit i haven't leveled my BDK, but i'm kinda weirded out at mashing marrowrend and heart strikes to be able to death strike, it just doesn't seem fun
prisma crane
an addon
neon tangle
is an addon
signal rune
Discord has addons?
ocean acorn
whats it called?
ember arrow
im weirded out at mashing shield slam and TC
neon tangle
@lusty grotto You're mashing shield slams to be able to shield block and IP
neon tangle
It's not super different, it's just less fiddly to keep bone shield up than shield block
lusty grotto
yeah but there's a weird dead zone in the timing where you're not sure what to press
sand egret
well you can't really compare runes to flat cds imho
ember arrow
runes have a flat cd
dull pilot
ember arrow
that get sreduced by haste
sand egret
you can't charge em all at the same time
lusty grotto
oh let me freely refresh the disease thing, oh let me just drop another D&D, what do
sand egret
tis a fundamental diff
lusty grotto
i'm not saying its bad
sand egret
slight, but mechanically important to distinguish
sand egret
stinky animation
ember arrow
but bonkers dmg
lusty grotto
i just don't like it, it's weird
ember arrow
unless they disabled the addon
neon tangle
@lusty grotto It doesn't really feel a ton different to play tbh, at least as far as the core rotation goes
ember arrow
resrouce gen is similar
sand egret
it feels weird to me, tbh
ember arrow
spending is different
sand egret
so I can see where he's coming from
lusty grotto
its the rune system, yeah
sand egret
but you are
lusty grotto
and the RP
sand egret
since you cant get RP without runes
lusty grotto
sure
neon tangle
@ember arrow I mean, it's sorta similar to pooling rage for IPs, etc
ember arrow
i played it so long, maybe i dont see the weirdless
neon tangle
except you know, it feels impactful
lusty grotto
the one that is extremely similar to prot warrior is prot pala
sand egret
and like DS has a timing importance
ember arrow
DS = SB
lusty grotto
guardian too is very similar to warrior
ember arrow
boneshield=IP
neon tangle
Hence my, "except it feels impactful"
sand egret
guardian = warrior where IP is your AM
ember arrow
but u compare ip, a secondary metigation
to a primary one
they shouldnt be as strong relatively anyway
even disregarding IP's weak number
lusty grotto
or at least that's how i see it
sand egret
it's reversed for bear
lusty grotto
which is why it made sense for me that when IP got on the gcd, both HotP and Frenzied Regen got on the gcd as well
oh no, i agree with you
hollow silo
Hey everyone :) i just decided to play prot warrior
lusty grotto
besides both those spells are reactionary and IP is proactive
sand egret
welcome!
ember arrow
@lusty grotto its similar in its role, not literalyl what it does
secondary or primary
thats what i mean
lusty grotto
yes that's what i meant
neon tangle
@lusty grotto HotP also arguably feels less bad on the GCD since it's got like a 16s CD
sand egret
yeah most tanks have a reactive/proactive element to mitigation, Warrior is actually the unicorn in that has 2 proactives
lusty grotto
i don't think BDK, VDH and BrM have similar templates
hollow silo
Actually decided to start tanking and going with warrior
lusty grotto
they play differently
ember arrow
boneshield is metigation thats always up
lusty grotto
which is good
ember arrow
but its not the main one
sand egret
proactive
ember arrow
so its like IP in that sense
sand egret
death strike = reactive
lusty grotto
what do you mean it's not the main one
sand egret
same with ISB vs Purify, SotR vs HotP, IP vs FR, and DS vs SC
but then there's us....
with two proactives!
lusty grotto
for sure
sand egret
which is why I think a lot of people look at us all confused
esp from the viewpoint of other tanks
lusty grotto
it's like back on the day tbc/cata when the proactive healer was disc, and the rest were reactive
sand egret
yep yep
intended playstyles sometimes don't meet with how players play, which is a hilarious thing as a meta-commentary
"ok, let's put this chair in this house so players can sit on it!"
Players: "This chair fucking sucks, when I hit people with it it does no damage. Can't you balance right?!"
lusty grotto
lol
sand egret
or as I like to call it, the LAM effect
lusty grotto
honestly though i really want to level another tank, but i'm split between VDH and the other two
i'm leaning heavily towards VDH
lusty grotto
i just don't like the idea of leveling bdk because i dislike being fotm
and monks are meh
sand egret
biggest reason I'd make a BDK is that I love the 2handed tanking look
neon tangle
I just can't get in to the aesthetics of monk stuff, and BDKs look fairly "tanky" to me
sand egret
and if monks could dual wield as brew
neon tangle
plus undead + big 2h weaps looks cool
lusty grotto
my druid will be retired for the first time in forever
i loved resto for 5 expansions
i just enjoy Holy Pal way more
sand egret
I'm looking forward to 8.1 druid
neon tangle
I couldn't get in to being a pally either, felt like I was glued to the floor
sand egret
some good buffs, and some neat traits
prot pala is like a hard NOPE
I will say, going from Warrior to Bear....man I miss leap
austere wind
Quick question fellas, I see deafening crash as best everywhere I go, is that still accurate?
sand egret
yep
lusty grotto
yes @austere wind
sand egret
@austere wind
hollow silo
Guys what tips can you give a new tank? :)
ember arrow
where to start
sand egret
keep shield block up as often as you can
check the pins
up in the top right and read up
ember arrow
new tank? or new prot?
hollow silo
I'm aiming m+ since i don't have time to raid
neon tangle
@sand egret I died a couple times leveling my BDK due to fall damage
lusty grotto
read the icy veins guide @hollow silo
hollow silo
New tank
neon tangle
spamming my heroic leap key
sand egret
for soft skills, I would read up on dungeons
hollow silo
Ok thanks, will read up there :D
sand egret
you're kinda expected to know everything, especially pulls. I personally run a dungeon a few times to practice it
lusty grotto
make sure you understand Active Mitigation
sand egret
other than that, be confident in your skills and don't panic. You're playing a warrior and we got no room for that shit
lusty grotto
there's a rotation/ability part in the Icy Veins guide
sand egret
but the guides will be very helpful for a majority of your questions
austere wind
Preciate the quick response, one more question ๐ as I'm using Bolster, I find myself using it after both shield block charges expires, essentially on CD to allow both charges to come back up - am i doing it right?
sand egret
yep!
you may even wait till after that 3rd
since it should be up very shortly after your 2nd charge expires
lusty grotto
โ
hollow silo
Thanks for the info guys :)
hollow silo
I have played healer since bc but now i wanna change
sand egret
now you'll have the other side of the coin to experience
side-note: playing a tank actually made me way better at healing.
lusty grotto
it works both ways for sure
being a tank makes you a better healer, being a healer makes you a better tank
signal rune
Oh boy
sand egret
dammit he woke up again
signal rune
Here we go
lusty grotto
i think we're talking defensively-wise
signal rune
๐ฟ
lusty grotto
or at least that's what i meant
sand egret
as did I
lusty grotto
but yeah i agree, you can pad meters easily as heals if you know your shit
sand egret
the thing I learned was the nuances of fights from both sides, how damage intake flows per mob/fight etc
ember arrow
the most important thing you learn when playing tank
is that different tanks require different types of healing
and at diff moments
lusty grotto
right
sand egret
yeah for sure
hollow silo
I will spam practice in normals than for now till i get the hang of it
sand egret
hit the training dummy for a bit @hollow silo and practice rotating SB
build that muscle memory
neon tangle
My personal favorite is getting 3 externals on me after the zek combo
lusty grotto
COUGHdontusebothSBchargesatthesametimeCOUGH
sand egret
i feel attacked.
neon tangle
"hey I take no damage, and can't even heal me"
lusty grotto
rofl
hollow silo
@sand egret oh yea i'll do that, thanks for the tip
neon tangle
@hollow silo also, my biggest piece of advice that I could offer, is to find a guild with people you don't hate
sand egret
as Nimchip alluded to, don't be like me. I have a tendency to double tap by accident and when that happens....well expect to die like 20 seconds later haha
ember arrow
@ocean acorn the addon is called Citador
neon tangle
running with the same people, and improving, and learning their strengths helps a lot
lusty grotto
lol i wasn't aware of that Blade
neon tangle
also pugging as a brand new prot warrior will be kinda shitty
ocean acorn
thanks @ember arrow
sand egret
didn't think you were, but yeah it's the cause of a majority of my floortanking parsses
ember arrow
you need BetterDiscord too
Citador is just a plugin for it
like twitch client + addons
ember arrow
well i only use the quoting plugin, nothign else
but to be fair i didnt look what other options i got
sand egret
yeah...we got a stigma out there.
sand egret
yeah we're not alone
supple path
Yeah, think I've got a raider.io score of around 700, which from my experience means "form your own groups because you will not get invited to literally anything"
signal rune
Feral
supple path
The FotM preferences are really strong.
sand egret
yeah, stigma seems worse for Hordies to ๐
sand egret
well, ya win some ya lose some
supple path
It's pretty cool getting rejected for a +8 that you did the day before on a +10 when the group has been waiting for 40 minutes.
sand egret
well to be fair, if they're waiting for 40 min they're clearly looking for something in particular
neon tangle
I wouldn't want to be a resto shaman in m+ either
sand egret
probably just hit a bunch of botched keys
sand egret
and was like "gotta have all the FOTM"
ember arrow
i asked one of my servants to login
open bluff
well between AMS negating bursting and how easy it can be to pull extra shit if you have even just one derp moment in ML
i can kinda see why they'd want a dk
ember arrow
yea but its a +11
supple path
People treat their +10s like they're +20s
astral crystal
levko u do a disturbing amount of LARPing in this channel
open bluff
it's also probably a dumbs per second making the group
sand egret
for some people they're not ez
ember arrow
you are correct, but all of that is negated by the fact that at +11 it doesntm atter
sand egret
and so to them, they do seem like +20s
supple path
We need top-tier DPS, tanks, and heals to cover for how much we're going to ignore mechanics guys.
open bluff
or a healer who can't do much higher than an 11 anyway
astral crystal
also it's easy to understand why people are so protective of their 10s
most of the playerbase doesn't clear keys above that regularly
sand egret
^
astral crystal
especially in pugs
neon tangle
I mean, I do one a week on my warrior, I don't have a big incentive to take non-FOTM people with me if I've got the option
ember arrow
joining a pug means you sign a contract
astral crystal
if you're on the discriminatory end of the stick don't get mad at that, just make your own group
sand egret
like, people need to remember, that a lot of people a) aren't in top guilds b) aren't nearly as hardcore as doing +16 lolez and c) have different skill levels
supple path
Honestly, maybe it's just me, but people are about 50x douchier about their M+s so far in BfA than in Legion.
ember arrow
that you wll join the memes
neon tangle
plus I gotta get people to make up for the fact that I'm doing it as a prot warrior
supple path
So much more leaving, bizarre requirements, blaming classes/numbers while ignoring mechanics, etc.
sand egret
@supple path its partly because BFA dungeons are designed to be more punishing
sand egret
pugs get rocked REAL hard vs legion
hollow silo
I think the bad thing is everyone see's theses pros on YouTube and expect everyone to play like them
supple path
The dungeons are legitimately unfun is a lot of it, yeah.
sand egret
and its also a bit harder to single carry
ember arrow
^
sand egret
like a tank in legion could fucking just escort people thru
astral crystal
preach was right for once tbh, dungeons have much more diverse mechanics in bfa
lusty grotto
you guys are right, but lets remember that people weren't regularly clearing +10s at the start of legion either
sand egret
there's reliance now and because of that people only want the best they can get
astral crystal
and most people dont know those mechanics
hollow silo
Why can't I just play prot warrior which i enjoy but ppl only want dk
sand egret
minus like 2 dungeons, I like BFA ones
on the whole
i think KR is fantastic
Freehold is super fun
sand egret
the trash is interesting
supple path
Half of them being these super narrow on the rails crapsacks is ugh.
sand egret
which is why I like KR
ember arrow
horrible
sand egret
not a lot and the ones you fight can fuck you up
neon tangle
@hollow silo It's only really pugging that's an issue in my experience
lusty grotto
i only dislike tight corridors cause the camera goes bonkers COUGHWMCOUGH
supple path
Pugging mythics is going to be 95% of the playerbase's experience with them and it is a really aggressively bad one.
sand egret
haha yeah....
ember arrow
even as a small race
sand egret
corridors are a pain, but I do like that they add a challenging restriction
ember arrow
yes
sand egret
i respect the map design
neon tangle
Tight corridors make quaking super fun
sand egret
new affix: Drunk
sand egret
pugs + wm + quaking is hilarious
astral crystal
first few m vectis pulls were pure artificial difficulty
you wanna soak near a jutted corner? nah, have an autistic camera spazzout instead
ember arrow
pugging WM is like running full speed into a very splintery gloryhole
sand egret
i dont mind it, quaking makes it a bit more problematic
it's not my least fav of them
ember arrow
@astral crystal i tanked in WM, i literally saw the gorund, and mujscle memoried my way true packls
sand egret
that one goes to Snake Temple
ember arrow
in corners
i didnt see shit
camera half inside my character
half inside adds
all the crap spell effects
sand egret
just first-person tank bruh
sand egret
I like to RP sometimes and tank in first person
ember arrow
its not even proper fp view
astral crystal
you gotta play the helmet-wearing, drool-bucket wielding fantasy class if that's the case
roll a DK
sand egret
annnd we're back to DKs. that's my cue! ๐
ember arrow
i dont even know where that came from, but hey, i do that all the time too
prisma crane
i dont like most of the BFA dungeons
at least not as someone who plays without a healer that can remove poisons
but i do like a few of the visuals, underrot looks fantastic
i like the feel of atal
zenith quiver
Is this the Blood DK fanboy discord?
neon tangle
yes
@prisma crane I think siege is a pretty good one, I think they capture the feeling of running through a town that's falling over pretty well
digital arrow
Lol blade
prisma crane
It's not bad @neon tangle but it has a few weird issues and with how nice movement is on the last boss, it sure as shit would feel nice if there werent so many pathing issues for charge
this xpac is full of lots of weird LoS invisible walls
neon tangle
yeah the movement is p wacky on the last boss
I tried to heroic leap last time
and got launched in to his face
prisma crane
best part is you can use your charge, it says you used it, puts it on CD, but you dont go anywhere
then you use it again since you figure it didnt go through and spam it, now you're out both charges
neon tangle
as far as uldir goes, I think it's got some fun fights
But I think they didn't work too hard on the actual design of the raid itself
Compared to something similar-ish like Ulduar
prisma crane
i like the feel of it, all titan with the underrot takeover at the end
nice that there's actually an elevator boss ๐
and hmm
mother is healer cheese check
neon tangle
Ulduar was similar, but each wing was way more detailed / built around the theme of the boss
prisma crane
it was also a second tier
first tiers are often generic
wrath was just a repeat lol
but i mean there's a change in the fetid room
there arent really wings in this place
just side rooms, more like that cata place with the long ass title
cant remember the name
BWD or something
neon tangle
Arguably kara was pretty big / detailed for a first raid
but Grull and Mag were pretty wimpy
prisma crane
yea, but kara was pretty lore rich
daring marlin
blackwing descent
prisma crane
2 bosses to start, 3 more at the other 3 cardinal points
descend to final center boss
daring marlin
Cata opening tier was incredible imo
prisma crane
i never played cata
but the "epic" raids are usually always the second or third tier of an expansion
daring marlin
That and throne of thunder are two of my favorites.
neon tangle
I don't think BC had a bad raid tier
prisma crane
the tiers were all different than we view them now though
neon tangle
kara/grull/mag -> TK/SSC -> Hyjal/BT
prisma crane
kara carried T4
TK is boring
Hyjal was neat but tedious
SSC was pretty cool
BT obviously
prisma crane
yea but as far as aesthetics, it was a rectangular room
but it was difficult, and you could fly
so there's that
"swim"
neon tangle
the bird fight was kinda fun
prisma crane
only things i specifically remember enjoying about that place was wall jumping to the top of void reavers room
and that SR could kill the fire patches on the ground on alar
literally reflect the floor dmg back to itself and make them disappear
neon tangle
I was a bear tank at the time, so my best memories there were having insane threat and solo-tanking void reaver
SSC was certainly more varied / fun tho
prisma crane
the first of many true elevator bosses iirc
neon tangle
fathom lord was a fun fight, fishing up lurker
Healers having to stack spell damage gear to be able to kill their reflections on the demon guy
prisma crane
leotheras or w/e
neon tangle
I can't remember when it was that they made all healing gear also increase spell power
but it made that fight -way- easier for healers lol
prisma crane
many just put on dps weapons when they got chosen
but yea
i dont remember when that was
neon tangle
mag would have been 100x easier if we had the ability to place markers on the floor
prisma crane
back when spriests op since crafted gear at start of TBC was BiS til deep T6
neon tangle
hardest part of that fight was getting disoriented and running to the wrong platform
prisma crane
we used smoke signal things
prisma crane
lol we still had that
neon tangle
tl;dr, I think that BC had the strongest opening raid tier of an xpac so far
Uldir is pretty good tho
prisma crane
i didnt play enough xpac starts to make that claim, but enjoyed TBC for mostly nostalgic reasons at this point
neon tangle
I really enjoyed kara-style dungeons
I also really enjoyed BRD + the BRS stuff in vanilla
long, somewhat non-linear
partly because it gave you a lot more options to pick/choose the bosses you wanted to fight
Imagine a m+ BRD
timer: 1 hour, 30 minutes, good luck
tiny sphinx
kara was ass cancer on a stick, but im probably the only one on the planet who thinks so
neon tangle
Blizz obviously need to make more chess fights
daring marlin
idk I think cata opening tier was the strongest Iโve done
shame dragon soul was so shit
frosty escarp
both were out same time
merry cave
sacred roost
what's the best tanks for this expansion for raid and mythic+
raid is monk, druid, then paladin/dk
m+ is dh, dk, what?
is that right?
cosmic cargo
druid is the worst in both contents
silk mortar
True
sacred roost
ohhh, i remember reading a mythic post that said they where good for raiding.
cosmic cargo
yeah no they are not
cosmic cargo
something like that
cosmic cargo
i wouldn't rate dh on par with pala at all
and dk not on par with monk
gap between monk and second is actually pretty massive
sacred roost
monks by far the best right now, for raids I think
silk mortar
Still strong is my point though
sacred roost
are the prot buffs in 8.1 gonna help us any?
silk mortar
mhm
sacred roost
do any of you think the prot buffs will help us move up any? in 8.1? with what they announced so far?
intresting, I guess m+ is dk, dh, monk
apparently top 20 m+ runs right now is dk, not dh.
neon tangle
DK has been on top of m+ the whole expac
They are getting a nerf to one of their more OP abilities for super big pulls in high keys
neon tangle
i don't think that the changes to prot will make us compete with them
They will make m+ better tho
prisma crane
the only thing imo that'll help M+ is blocking ranged attacks
that will make us tankier, but wont change ranking drastically
neon tangle
@prisma crane IP off the GCD should help too
especially during avatar cycles
and large packs, where we were previously rage capped
prisma crane
in ST it will barely be different
and yea, large packs sure, but if it's difficult and large, you're kiting
sacred roost
there killing defening crash though
prisma crane
IP change will just feel a lot nicer
its not killed, but it's worse, yes
which will reduce our dps as well as magic mitigation slightly
neon tangle
@prisma crane also small, but we will have more globals, which means more shield slams, so more rage
prisma crane
but we gain more physical tankiness
neon tangle
which we can use for more IP!
prisma crane
more like more devastates so a better chance at more sS
it wont be a massive difference
neon tangle
yeahh
@sacred roost It's not as much as a nerf as you'd think, but yeah it won't be ideal
sacred roost
not sure, 20% decrease for 12 seconds vs like 6 seconds, over 5 mobs is kinda massive to me
with the low health pool we have.
prisma crane
in raids we were already in an ok spot, despite community perception
M+ is where we lack utility and thus lack in ranking
i mean this as nicely as possible
neon tangle
^^^
prisma crane
but bringing up our healthpool tells me you need better understanding on how we mitigate
and that difference you mention doesnt account for the base 8 sec regardless
neon tangle
The changes miss what makes us less good in m+, and the nerfs to the other tanks don't really address what makes them so good
sacred roost
I know about the upfront cd's, I'm just saying the healthpool and the lack of selfhealing isn't helping us
prisma crane
so using your numbers, 12 is double 6 but 20 is only ~43% more than 14
tell me which is better
taking 50 dmg, healing for 30
or taking 15 dmg
im exaggerating, but looking at self healing alone doesnt tell the whole story
sacred roost
ok, but also, that's saying the your cd's are up 100% of the time, where the guy heaving for 30 has it constantly. plus cd's on longer cooldowns.
prisma crane
it's actually because other tanks mitigate via self heals that they have a higher healthpool to use as a buffer since they regularly get hit harder
the only time you'll notice the difference is on things where SB doesnt work
and im not accounting for CDs up all the time
neon tangle
@sacred roost especially with the pauses and tank swaps you should be able to have your mitigation up 100% of the time
sacred roost
or when you don't have an sb up or not enough rage to use it
granted, that happens rarely.
prisma crane
i can promise you not having enough rage for SB will happen more in 8.1
sacred roost
where as other tanks don't really have that.
neon tangle
eh? bears can run out of rage, DKs can run out of RP and runes
prisma crane
all im saying is that basically, 8.1 is a feels good QoL change on IP, buff to SB, nerf to DC, and buff to physical ranged dmg mitigation, overall nice, but not enough to change order in M+ (personally)
sacred roost
I'm just playing devils advocate here, I'm probably going to switch to dk, with the nerf to arms, and how good they do every expansion
neon tangle
only really pallies + monks have a straight CD/charge system
prisma crane
in raids it should help us slightly, though as i said before, we arent exactly wheelchairs in raids now anyways
neon tangle
But yeah I generally agree with you, I've swapped to BDK
sacred roost
no, but we aren't anywhere near monks.
prisma crane
no one is
your point?
monks to raids are BDK to M+
their kits work for it
i dont need to be top, but it'd be nice to be further from the bottom
oblique garnet
Only reason im not switching from prot is because i enjoy playing prot more than other tanks
prisma crane
or at least not see how people get denied to do content strictly because of the class they chose
dont get me wrong, being OP would be great, but i'll settle for a fixed perception first
sacred roost
well, not class, but more like class spec.
prisma crane
semantics, you know what i mean
sacred roost
class + spec
neon tangle
at +15 there's not a ton of dps warriors either
oblique garnet
And also after you get above 1k rio atleast i get accepted to 10+s and highers regularly
sacred roost
what's sad is, blizzard isn't doing anything about it
at all, it really annoys me, and alot of people have left the game because of it.
sick sentinel
Blizzcon tho
prisma crane
what about it?
neon tangle
@sacred roost I mean, it's why I leveled a BDK
prisma crane
i bet you it's gonna be a disappointment
sick sentinel
They can't focus on the game because of blizzcon obviously
neon tangle
I wanna do more m+, I don't want to bet on blizzard reworking prot warriors
sick sentinel
/s for anyone who can't tell
prisma crane
they dont know what to do and it's fairly obvious
they're already in disaster control for AZ armor
neon tangle
@prisma crane I think it's kinda the curse of trying to have interesting/varied classes
sick sentinel
It's the curse of having a good expansion that took risks
sacred roost
yeah, but it's like they dropped all the original classes.
prisma crane
maybe i'm just remembering poorly, but i feel like you saw a lot of various classes in MoP
sick sentinel
And having a bad one that played too safe
neon tangle
@sacred roost FWIW mages are pretty much never bad
and hunters are almost always decent
sacred roost
there so-so, same as hunters.
neon tangle
rogues
prisma crane
and tbh, i have much less of a problem of one class being OP than of a couple classes being dogshit
sacred roost
ropgues where terrible.
they had to give them a legendary at one point to get people to play them
had like a 1% class representation
neon tangle
Welp, they are the most popular class in m+ at 15
sacred roost
I'm not saying now.
prisma crane
the state of a handful of classes/specs over the past WHILE has been poor
sacred roost
I'm just saying there was a time
sick sentinel
MoP I believe
sacred roost
it's when they released the legendary daggers for rogues.
prisma crane
that's cata
oblique garnet
That was cata
sacred roost
I can't remember which expansion, before those, they had like a 1% rrep.
prisma crane
MoP had the first everyone legendaries with teh capes
sick sentinel
I'm thinking of the cloak
neon tangle
They also had leggos in BC
oblique garnet
Rogue daggers were the ones you farmed from DS
neon tangle
dem warglaives
sacred roost
the ones that gave you slow fall and wings.
sick sentinel
Yeah that was cata
prisma crane
well rogues have been in a good spot in at least one of their specs for a long time now
they're basically mechanic cheese monsters
sick sentinel
Just say assassin
daring marlin
@sacred roost wrong
sacred roost
is assassin the best spec now, I thought it was outlaw, by far?
primal crypt
sacred roost
they had like no class representation in cata before those legendaries, i remember that.
and I think Sin was just a complete pain to play.
neon tangle
warlocks almost always do fairly well in some spec as well
sacred roost
yeah, I was thinking warlocks are almost always upper mid range in something
or needed for something
neon tangle
There are classes which always seem to struggle tho, Shamans, Druid dps, shadow priests
oblique garnet
Warlocks have been always the least played class tho?
junior ivy
aw i miss ulduar
neon tangle
I guess my point is, blizzard does OK at balancing some of their original specs/classes
They don't seem great at balancing tanks tho
sacred roost
warriors one of there iconics though, and it's been pretty bad for awhile
neon tangle
seems like every xpac has a pariah tank
and m+ tends to exacerbate that since it's rarely just "stand there, get hit by the boss"
sacred roost
I think the thing is, there can be a disparity between different tanks, but it shouldn't be anywherre near as bad as it is now.
prisma crane
looking at stats on WCL since WoD
top spots for raids have only been druids monks or DKs
as far as representation
daring marlin
blizzard is and always has been shit at balancing
prisma crane
warrior hit top 2 like twice
pally got shit on a few times
never OP though, but they owned ToT
daring marlin
The rollercoaster meme is hilarious
prisma crane
i figure, as long as people dont have to sit at the bottom too long, it's alright
and now with M+
if you suck in raids and good in M+ that's not so bad
daring marlin
which is why pve got fucked
prisma crane
it's when you lack even that that it sucks
prisma crane
like VDH
daring marlin
Arms damage in mop beta was amazing
sacred roost
bdk will own arms right now, so will a surv hunter, I tihkn
prisma crane
not the best in raids, not in any tier they've been in
but great in M+ so w/e
BDK have it great
daring marlin
Then 22% nerf across the board after a week at launch of mop
neon tangle
I think it's a lil' more connected than that
prisma crane
if druids didnt own ALL of legion i'd actually feel bad for them atm
neon tangle
good gear from m+ means you're gonna have better gear in raids / find it easier to get a slot
sacred roost
I played one, that was an easy expansion for druids. ๐
oblique garnet
Its honesrly surprising how could anyone play druid tank
prisma crane
it still stands
oblique garnet
Its by far the most boring tank
neon tangle
pretty much
I expect that BDK is a little over represented in raids due to the early m+ dominance tho
neon tangle
I mean early in the expac
prisma crane
people had no reason to go away from them
neon tangle
If you look at healers tho, lots of people played different classes after legion