It’s in the guides but we still see it a lot: IP isn’t going to replace SB. Your name is amazing btw. Going with Bedazzled as a hidden gem.
#protection
sand egret
remote tusk
Pug tank with talents like this, oh boy.
sick sentinel
Would you rather go for a second Archive of the Titans or Brace for Impact?
sand egret
hiss
@remote tusk Im legit impressed he basically managed to not pick all the best talents.
remote tusk
Ikr. Yikes.
uneven mason
I'd say, that looks intentionally done, except if it was they'd be using IV and Ravager
cinder nova
we got a new blood death knight is my CO tank and he kept wanting to change the Zek strategy because he's a death knight and can't handle the debuff
He was very insistent about tanking the boss first even though he can barely hold threat even when I'm not bursting
signal plover
Tell him he's not pushing any frontiers lol
wintry ermine
@cinder nova its fine to have him start off tanking, we do it like that (me warrior, my co tank BDK) and my co tank just needs to keep taunting to stay ontop
signal plover
That's all been tested
cinder nova
The question is why not if you can
if I'm going to generate shitloads more threat I get more AIDS from getting hit in the face and I can tank combo solo like he wants to, why should he start first it's a waste of effort and time I nearly killed some of our DPS because this idiot couldn't handle the threat
wintry ermine
because it lines up that we are tanking when donuts are happening most of the time
and we have more movement
sweet kettle
Testing what?
spice musk
Got Trinket Jes' Howler 375 but its weaker as Rezan 345 with socket and Darkmoon or?#
cinder nova
Translation colon he's a big baby and doesn't want to do the hard stuff
He even had the audacity to tell me not to burst
and it was really difficult for me to stop and think that my read leader would prefer me not to do 20K single Target on the opener and would prefer 5K single-target on the opener
wintry ermine
just tell him to look at the threat and keep taunting when you get close
cinder nova
Or I can just start and save everyone the pain
wintry ermine
or you can stop overreacting and talk to your co-tank, you need to communicate
cinder nova
I asked him why he was so insistent he refused to tell me
Well, not refused, rather just didn't tell me
wintry ermine
the reason doesn't matter, you just figure out something that works => he taunts when you get close in threat
wintry marsh
hey,coastal surge any good?
signal plover
Is that a mixed drink?
remote tusk
My god, he also didn't use Thunder Clap once the entire fight.
mild bough
just practicing his tab targeting skills
signal plover
"testing" his tab targeting
shy pilot
Are warrior tanks bad right now? 😕
shy pilot
healer keep complaining warrior tank is squishy 😕
bold stratus
Kind of depends on the content TBH. Any tank can raid, only some tanks can mitigate thrown rocks.
amber siren
Which is being fixed in 8.1
bold stratus
😋
frosty wedge
yeah it looks like he was like "I wonder how hard I can make this on everyone?"
dusk locust
@signal plover had an unusually productive tuesday and downed 5 bosses, so we're tied again 😛
signal plover
We got 10 pulls on Zul
Was our best raid night so far
Rly wasn't expecting such a fast reclear but Uldir is so short when things go smoothly
frosty wedge
well I'm at work in full Jedi garb and it's hot as fuck in here.
signal plover
Nerd alert
frosty wedge
he says in a wow discord 😄
dusk locust
we made some small adjustments on fetid and got it in like 8 pulls
signal plover
I'd do a Witcher costume tho if I had the time to put one together
chilly brook
@cinder nova he just sounds like a bad tank period. If he can’t hold aggro he just isn’t pressing buttons and if he can’t deal with combo lawl. I could always use a good guild 😉
@shy pilot we’re tied with prot Paladin as best tanks outside of the two fotm (blood and brew)
I’m a sad boy
I’m actually strongly leaning towards letting my sub lapse
green helm
Dks are OP for zekvoz. ams immune last debuff
spice musk
Got Trinket Jes' Howler 375 but its weaker as Rezan 345 with socket and Darkmoon or am i wrong here?
chilly brook
No replace Rezan with it
Or actually probably DMD if you’re not having any issues with survival
bronze lance
we have prot pally and brew monk tanks
although our old blood tank who quit on mythic aggy came back......we will see what happens with him
royal oasis
My bdk co tank has aggro issues on m fetid since I'm taking the thrashes. I even hold Avatar for like 5ish seconds and it's still no use :/
sick sentinel
Do you have any rogues or hunters?
eternal roost
^ great fix for your issue btw @royal oasis , assuming you havent already thought of it 😛
frosty wedge
or - you should switch
BDK is better for thrashes and we're a better white damage tank
plus then threat isn't an issue and you can dump as much dmg into fetid as possible
green helm
havnt played warrior, played monk and DK this tier for mythic. blood dk you end the combo with 70%+ HP and no debuff after taunt swap
no idea how smooth it is on warr.
sick sentinel
Depends on your haste actually so you can have a defencive up for each one ( and IP)
daring marlin
I usually end up the same on my Warrior on mythic zek
The combo is laughable for us
modern brook
idg how aggro can be an issue this late into the raiding tier*
is he just not pressing buttons?
daring marlin
same thing happens with my bdk cotank
sick sentinel
prot can do like 14k burst blood can do half it is possible i have seen good bdk doing decent damage tho
one trick should do the deal
modern brook
I guess
frosty wedge
I don't understand why guilds with a BDK/Warr combo have warrs on thrashes
BDKs are built for thrashes, and we're built for white damage
green helm
id dont get why tanks just dont take the whole combo :/ especially now when people have gear.
frosty wedge
sure, but so is healing back all the damage you just took and laughing at fetid
frosty wedge
and we are DEFINITELY better white damage tanks
green helm
wrong boss ecksdee
I played monk on fetid . was somewhat Zzzzzz. bet it was alot more fun on warr
royal oasis
I tank the thrashes because I have enough haste to have proper defensives up for each one
green helm
you are onto something here
royal oasis
But we also have 2 rogues and 2 hunters...but nothing stops my burst xD
chilly brook
That being said Blood DK is only a better thrash tank by a marginal amount
royal oasis
I like tanking thrashes. Makes it more interesting
chilly brook
I like tanking thrashes and only getting hit for 30k when crit Block procs
royal oasis
Will have to see once we prog after 50% and see if that mentality changes haha
chilly brook
Lol
I mean he’s been nerfed a fair bit to be more realistic so I don’t think it will change much
I know Atticus has tanked him as thrash tank
royal oasis
Yeah I'm sure it's fine, I'm not worried
Although raid leading would be easier as the not thrash tank...can call out the bads not doing the debuff right more easily
chilly brook
Probably lol
Although I always found thrash fairly easy to deal with assuming the boss didn’t decide to run away after I pop SB to go snack on an egg
uneven mason
Yeah I got told by my guild "SHield tanks are complete garbage for fetid"
chilly brook
Lawl
frosty wedge
lol
chilly brook
Boss only auto’s
uneven mason
and I was like 🤔 TFW you reduce Thrash by 99% because you critcially blocked?
chilly brook
the tank that specializes in reducing physical melee’s is trash for the boss that only does that
uneven mason
Paladins might be garbage
chilly brook
🙃
uneven mason
and i told them to stop lumping Paladins and warriors together
we don't work the same
by any stretch
uneven mason
but we work by blocking
and they work by increasing base armor (like druids!)
with shit uptime
So our block >>> their block
chilly brook
But ours scales much better because we’re far more consistent
royal oasis
Paladins have higher base block with HS
uneven mason
Our block > their block
royal oasis
But yeah their active is inconsistent
chilly brook
And we have the chance to have stupid DR
uneven mason
Like their "block" (SoTR) runs into diminishing returns way sooner
chilly brook
Within our already consistent damage intake inside AM
uneven mason
ours, has its own diminishing returns
But yeah anyway its basically I can block 100% of his whites/thrashes
how is that bad?
chilly brook
Overall we work out to be almost the same in terms of damage intake
uneven mason
we are identical in damage intake except for situations with 100% blockable damage
chilly brook
The difference is we have something to smooth out the damage outside of our AM
uneven mason
where we lead by a solid margin in mitigation
chilly brook
Yea
frosty wedge
and 8.1 will mean we're taking even less damage
royal oasis
But do we have magical horses? I think not
chilly brook
Don’t like the guild I trialed with, they’re basically inactive outside of raid
uneven mason
We have hulk leap
frosty wedge
I have a magical kodo
uneven mason
fuck your horse
chilly brook
I have an undead Pegasus
royal oasis
The rest are just awful
chilly brook
Get at me
frosty wedge
lol, I have... 5 tanks leveled
chilly brook
Yea I don’t enjoy any of the tanks outside of warrior
Only one left for me to get to 120 is brew
royal oasis
I mained DH in antorus but now theyre much slower
chilly brook
And I know I’d “enjoy” it simply because it was my main the last 2 xpac
But I like the control I have as a prot warrior
royal oasis
Yeah
uneven mason
So my guild asked me, if I'm this good on warrior, why don't I Just bring a EZ Mode tank and be a demigod
after knowing I had just literally Xfered to the server to tank on my warrior 🤦
chilly brook
Because why give up that control and the challenge
chilly brook
^
rigid elm
On Zul, while doing the zerg strat, if I am not responsible for the crushers during phase 1, is it better to use devestate as filler for a chance to reset shield slam, or revenge to speed up Avatar's CD time? Also, revenge does more damage.
uneven mason
I mean, I told them, that if they think that its going to come down to the tanks hurting prog
they need to reevaluate
chilly brook
You know
uneven mason
But whatever, I'm on the roster again
I'll get some Mythic kills
Take my ball down the street if the bench me again
chilly brook
Monks may be stupid on every fight
But I’m pretty sure that they’re worse than us on Zul
uneven mason
as long as they're being actively healed they're better than..oh wait...
chilly brook
Because they have less HP and nothing to deal with bleed outside of a 5 minute CD
So I can happily say we’re not the worst tanks for Zul 😜
royal oasis
Can't wait to get to him...we only have 2 rogues and we need like 14 yeah?
junior igloo
Monks have permanent stagger, Fortifying Brew, Zen Meditation and Dampen Harm
signal prawn
I guess this question is more for the realm of M+, but does our decent mitigation outweigh the lack of self-sustain in any regard? I would easily give up some of my burst to keep myself alive longer
royal oasis
I feel pretty unkillable in m+ if I'm rotating right
zealous mirage
I main monk atm, bleed was not a problem since u can use Zen med on one and brew on another and the next the boss is usually dead or close to. I also took 3 stacks dunno if that is low compared to other tanks
royal oasis
But I have a very solid healer
junior igloo
I lived under the impression that it applies to magic damage and bleeds at reduced effectiveness (still almost 30 %), is that wrong?
junior igloo
All those cooldowns will only be used once, which is the same for all tanks I'd say.
The last phase isn't that long
modern brook
how bad is bursting for us?
vagrant cape
Not
modern brook
we just ignore it?
vagrant cape
I mean, it's not really a thing the tank can do anything about
Ideally you hope your dps don't kill all the little things at once
But if they do, you can rallying cry I guess
chilly brook
@zealous mirage in all reality bleed shouldn’t be an issue for any tank as long as your healers are doing their job
@vagrant cape I don’t know if I’d say that, I know I’ve been responsible for killing several adds within Avatar in m+
green helm
if you fuck up SB timing , eg egg run .or misplay . are you fked? Need to pop Sw there etc ?
chilly brook
Nah
vagrant cape
Bursting is one of the few m+ affixes that the tank can't do much about. As usual get ready to Kite if stacks get too high and try not to kill things when stacks are about to drop
green helm
ahhh ok thats nice. how is warr on things like vectis and Zul p2?
chilly brook
If you have nothing up for when he comes back though then yea you’d pop SW
Are you asking about vectis and Zul on Mythic? Because I can’t really speak to that. Got stuck in progress limbo after the guild disintegrated
vagrant cape
Zul is ok as long as you stay on the boss and leap out last second. You need to Gen as much rage as possible for IPs. Biggest mistake I see warriors making is running away from zul too soon.
On vectis, it's pretty standard stuff. If you get a vector in liquefy, you can use spell reflect as the it wears off and you won't get a stack of omega vector
chilly brook
I’d assume fine on Vectis in fact it’s pretty nice being able to remove a debuff from your guild with SR
green helm
Yah mythic
vagrant cape
Ideally you don't want to get lingering infection when tanking the boss
But during liquefy it's fine
chilly brook
Zul well I wouldn’t think is a fun fight because I don’t find it fun in heroic and even worse in Mythic since there are so many things you can’t do in p1
green helm
its sounds butt clenching lol
vagrant cape
Warriors are nice im for vectis because we're great at leaping to grab untaken pools in p2
green helm
I played DK on zek mother and taloc. rest on monk. really want to play warrior again but so hard to justify when monk is in the spot.
vagrant cape
Vectis just try to use SR when you're at 2 stacks (if this doesn't happen then just use it on contagion)
We've done mythic vect but not zul
So I'm just sharing my heroic zul advice
green helm
might aswell now tbh. we were world rank 200 as 2 day raiding guild last xpac. like 400-500 atm. not so much fun.
chilly brook
Could be worse
green helm
On Ghuun mythic now atleast. almost over
bronze lance
i would ask if you want an enhance shaman, but i cant honestly say im going to be playing in 8.1 either
chilly brook
You coulda been in a guild that kicked you because you said that you weren’t going to go to a mandatory heroic in place of Mythic when it was a Mythic night and then watch that guild implode less than a week later because they were stuck on Zek and didn’t have anyone willing to enforce expectations in raid
¯_(ツ)_/¯
green helm
we have optional hc raid day. that sucks man
bronze lance
we are tues/wed and then thrus is heroic/alt raid
chilly brook
Yea so did we (Sunday) but it became mandatory on a Thursday because the GM (cotank) couldn’t make it that day and we had a 370+ vengeance DH alt and three trials we coulda pulled in to fill the DPS slot
chilly brook
And I thought it was stupid that we were basically doing heroic because the GM couldn’t make it
Less than a week later the GM and the “head officer” decided they were done leading and disbanded the guild 😂
bronze lance
sounds dumb, i dont think i would have gotten gkicked over it for a one off thing
mint kite
Hey i heard that you shouldn’t stack shield block and ignore pain?
chilly brook
Wut
SB>IP but don’t use IP if you won’t have enough rage to use SB
But idk why you wouldn’t stack the two if you have the rage
sand egret
yeah, as long as your priority is right is fine, but thinking that getting an IP over a SB is the move is going to lead ya to a bad time
chilly brook
And it makes sense to do so
sand egret
I generally like to try and keep IP up at all times, unless it means I need to choose SB over it.
chilly brook
@bronze lance tbh neither did I or I would have actually gone lul
bronze lance
lol
mint kite
I was asking a couple weeks ago and i think someone told me to rotate between ignore pain and then shield block
chilly brook
When the leadership doesn’t enforce anything until you say you’re not coming to a “mandatory” raid night kek
mint kite
I can still have ip up during shield block and it would still be a smart move?
chilly brook
Yes assuming you have the rage to support it
sand egret
as long as casting that IP means you're not delaying SB when you need it
that is the most important thing, imho
mint kite
Ok
chilly brook
^
mint kite
Also is there any way on weak auras to track how much of my shield block is left?
mint kite
Ok
chilly brook
Khakhans is good
vagrant cape
Yep, it works for shield block and last stabd
junior igloo
@chilly brook
Looking at logs all Rupturing Blood ticks are being partially "absorbed", by a larger margin when ISB is up.
I strongly believe that stagger works (at the 35 % effectiveness).
Do you have a source for stagger not working against bleeds?
mint kite
Oh sorry how much of my ip is left? Like a mini ip health bar
vagrant cape
Also in the pins
vagrant cape
Np
uneven mason
So has anyone else gotten into a M+, gotten halfway through, then had the healer go "Oh wtf the warrior is the tank, I thought we just had a shitty paladin (The ret) and the arms kept pulling aggro"
chilly brook
@junior igloo I guess it changed in 7.0.1 and it’s now affected
uneven mason
Then hearth out 👏
chilly brook
Certainly didn’t feel like it in Antorus on PK or Imonar
chilly brook
Right it’s now 35% effectiveness against magic or in this case bleeds
@uneven mason what is the healer trying to say? That you’re the reason those two were taking damage?
Or that he thought you were an arms warrior and the pally was the tank
junior igloo
He is saying that only censored play ret paladin and prot warrior 😦
sand egret
yikes. Didn't have that happen, but almost lost my key because my melee dps were so god damn antsy to run to the next pack that they started pulling shit in AD that was very much not part of my path
chilly brook
Lol
junior igloo
yes, that's what he thought
sand egret
had to tell them multiple times to let me pull my dungeon haha
chilly brook
Yea people that pull for me is an instant “see ya later”
sand egret
"why are we pulling this?!"
"uh because I've ran this a bajillion times and this is the path I take..."
sand egret
In AD I usually go:
chilly brook
Run back up clear the rest of the pterodactyls
Run up middle stairs to second boss
Then go back down to the last boss
sand egret
Stealth guy on the right > Saurids > 2nd Saurids > Rezan > get the 2 screamers on the other side of the staircase (going left instead of right) > then head down to the zombie path
chilly brook
Sounds like a lot of backtracking
sand egret
not particularly
oblique garnet
Rezan>Saurids>Stealthbomber>Zombie adds>Volkaal>Down the stairs adds>clear the circle adds not the ones in the middle>Priestess>last boss
sand egret
other than walking up the stairs you used to get down to Rezan, not much
it's the 2 extra screamers that give me the %
chilly brook
Well yea you wanna grab all the screamers
sand egret
that's what they didnt get
so they ran off to zombieville when i'm pulling the screamers
vagrant cape
Do you kill the middle dinos?
vagrant cape
How do you have enough %?
chilly brook
Grab the screamers
vagrant cape
But you skip 2 screamers on the way down to rezan
chilly brook
The ones on the right?
vagrant cape
And you skip the curved path toward zombie totem boss
chilly brook
You kill them before you jump down
vagrant cape
No, the ones.. Ok lemme paint a picture
chilly brook
Curved path?
vagrant cape
So you do pull that stuff? Ok, it makes sense now
chilly brook
Grab the assassin and the totem guy
Kill the next pack
Skip the one after
Go to the next big one
Etc.
And if it’s teeming go up the extra stairs to grab the assassins that hide there out of the way
versed whale
whats you best time run in AD mythic plus griff
vagrant cape
Gotcha. I always pull the screamers on the left side of the staircase down to rezan (if you're looking at it from the entrance of the dungeon)
chilly brook
Idk I don’t do Mythic plus that often
versed whale
ah ok
signal prawn
So I recently xferred to Alliance on my prot war and failed to realize that Siege of Boralus has a different starting path and mobs than horde does...until the key started
chilly brook
And I don’t have a guild and the one I just trialed was never on outside of raid
Trust me I’d love to do m+ tho
TBH tho I should just look for a guild that does m+ a lot
I’ve basically given up on achieving cutting edge this tier
signal prawn
oh really?
torn sun
yeah it is just below, it is almost preferable to take it
I think it is better, you dodge the fire keg guys
sand egret
oh i only take the Horde route
and @vagrant cape those 2 screamers down on the left side of the staircase are the $$$ ones for %
chilly brook
@vagrant cape but back to the route I just vehemently dislike backtracking
sand egret
other than running back up one set of stairs, I never backtrack with my route
fickle citrus
prot tanking. ELIAM5
Im rerolling to Warrior today because monk is just no fun and i want the communities opinion
he's strong but no fun
vagrant cape
@chilly brook that's fair. You could do sliiiightly more backtracking and get the extra screamers if you jump into rezan's pit and exit via the south staircase instead of the north one
You may get enough % to pull one fewer totem pack on the way to zombie totem asshat
astral crystal
objectively superior route starts with rezan tbh
chilly brook
You may be right
astral crystal
i used to start volkal but starting rezan OPENED MY EYES
vagrant cape
How is it objectively superior? Do you get an extra lust?
Running down and then up the stairs objectively takes longer than falling down and climbing up
amber siren
I run straight to Rezan at the start bcs the pathing puts him in the bottom right corner
vagrant cape
There's no fucking way you're that consistent
chilly brook
And it’s pretty much in a good spot positioning wise
vagrant cape
You're lucky
chilly brook
Well like I said “usually”
I have a limited pool to pull from here
Small sample size
vagrant cape
Fair
astral crystal
you dont run down the stairs, you jump, kill rezan, climb stairs and kill two tiny dino packs + screamer pack right before middle, go back up stairs, take a right, kill 3 packs, then scuttle back, clear invis guy, undead guy, double shield boner pack, kill invis guy, kill pack before bridge, kill double invis + pack at the bottom, skip cancer volkal pack, kill both screamer packs, kill screamer + tiny dino pack, then the pack after, then the group before stairs, then mass pull the top area, two dudes before the stairs as well, kill other screamer while waiting for RP to finish to final boss
there you have a hundo
vagrant cape
And if you jump from there you really only get screwed if he's on the opposite side
chilly brook
Yep
astral crystal
he will never be on the opposite side if you start rezan
he's always just about to turn the corner
vagrant cape
Yeah, I was talking about the Griff route
I like that route
I've never successfully skipped the volkal pack
sand egret
yeah that sounds way worse than my route haha
I always seem to get rezan right where I need him to bring him to the stairs if I go stealther > Saurids > Saurids > Rezan
vagrant cape
Killing 3 pack on the southeast corner sounds like more of a time waste than killing the volkal pack
sand egret
I also don't care too much about that volkal back, Dark Iron those Bleed stacks 😃
vagrant cape
Can you even skip it on teeming?
astral crystal
yeah
sand egret
teeming is a rough, but that's just more CC needed week
astral crystal
i've done them before, if you kill them then you skip the extra solo screamers and the two stair boys at the priestess
sand egret
I also exclusively PUG so "skips" are risky
vagrant cape
Do you skip it with lock gate?
amber siren
more CC or more thunder claps? 
astral crystal
lock gate or pull off to the side while the group runs by
sand egret
you mean 👢 🍵 : 👏 ?
sick sentinel
and use Volcanic WA
vagrant cape
I need to look up videos of these skips
sand egret
PFF
sand egret
Last night I found a Rogue that legit had no idea what "Tricks" was or even what it did. Context: +8 SotS on the first 2x caster pack with all the droplets. The request was "Tricks and garrote both so we avoid the droplets for Bursting". Result: Rogue pauses, clearly confused, then just garrotes both and FoKs and the group inevitably gets rocked because they just aoe'd all the droplets down.
amber siren
when did they remove tricks giving a damage boost
bcs that always made rogues pay attention
sand egret
right? if we've learned anything from the DH it's that you gotta heavily incentivize the use of utility spells by having it increase dps in some way. DPS classes just don't have the brain space to comprehend stuff that isn't quantified in a DPS meter. 😃
sand egret
because I wanted to see if my rogue could do this
chilly brook
I don’t assume any DPS can do anything properly
sand egret
and LoS doesn't exist in a lot of my PuGs
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sand egret
so they'll just open up regardless
i'm designing my runs around the accepted premise of ineptitude
sand egret
haha oh he's in here
rough egret
@shut summit yayy 😄
sand egret
well, I guess not technically, but rather Sense's Shouts are so powerful that they transcend the client and appear in Discord.
oblique garnet
Sense is the reason blizzard wont buff prot warriors too much because he would just look at the bosses and they would flee in fear
rough egret
im just amazed by his deeps and skill overall
cold wren
Or are we still getting anally fucked bonked
chilly brook
Well in all honesty we don’t really need all that much extra in our toolkit in terms of DR
oblique garnet
If you are getting fucked youre doing something wrong
chilly brook
Yea we’re not getting destroyed rn
cold wren
To be MDI level
oblique garnet
i cant wait for the #BlockTheRock in 8.1
sand egret
well sure, we're not top dogs in the MDI, but in terms of tanking per se, we're quite well off
oblique garnet
Makes Kings rest etc so much easier
sand egret
i'm so excited to hit that Bow bitch with a fat block
dark lagoon
should give us a stomp that works like a reverse Rip. you stomp and enemies are knocked toward you.
ring of peace
sand egret
other than the 1st poss on Tyrannical, Asshat of Zul, and the stupid embalming blobs (just tedious to pull since they aint linked) I actually don't have a problem with KR. I think it's pretty easy
frosty wedge
yeah thats a thing for barbs and chars in hots and diablo
arreat's crater
I want an LOS wall. lol
oblique garnet
I love it when you get 9 stacks of the fluid on the embalmin blobs and cant move at all
sand egret
puts on glasses well technically not that one......
frosty wedge
how do you get stacks? stop stopping, lol
sand egret
ursol' vortex?
cuz that's anti-RoP
gimme a chain that has the same functionality as the VDH's PvP talent
and we'll call it a day
Target Mob is pulled to you and thrown to your targeted location (in one motion, so you can't "hold" them there). So kinda like Grip, but to a place of your choosing
amber siren
i want to leash a mob and make it call me papa
frosty wedge
like those annoying fking mobs in freehold that keep throwing me at the healer?
sand egret
YES
frosty wedge
that's so annoying
sand egret
see that bserker in KR? NAW SON GO AWAY
see that stupid goblin that disengaged
GO BACK WITH YOUR FRIENDS
valid knot
so are we viable next patch? 😄
native trellis
more than we are now
candid vine
Anything interesting in New PTR build?
amber siren
dumbledore comes back as thrall's new lover
ruby sapphire
Bring back banners
prisma crane
i mean, next patch we'll probably be about the same as we are now, just take slightly less damage
so in raids we're not going to be "better enough" to remove our stigma, even though in raids we're alright anyways
and other than being able to block ranged attacks, nothing changed to me for M+
higher block uptime will help
lower DS uptime will hurt
oblique garnet
We can block ranged attacks so thats actually pretty decent for m+
prisma crane
hence why i said other than that
but that isnt a utility
it just makes us tankier, which is nice, but not enough
oblique garnet
True but there might still be changes that havent made to ptr yet
prisma crane
im not holding my breath
oblique garnet
As long as i can clear the content its enough for me
prisma crane
we'd need completely new abilities or overhauls of current ones to fix our utility issue
make AM baseline, somehow turn ravager into a utility and add a new utility talent and then our last row can be the utility row or something, idk
sweet kettle
Fk ravager
light oasis
They gave bear ursols. But I can’t think of anything arms and fury have that would be a nice utility for prot to get
sweet kettle
Heal based on dmg done
amber siren
self healing is so 2017, mass grip is where it's at
sweet kettle
Well you can't really compare tanking with just one ability
Grip is good when it's useful
daring marlin
baseline AM is the dream @prisma crane
graceful mason
If they made commanding shout give a prydaz effect it could make us useful
Instead of bringing another healing cd/healer you bring a prot warrior
frosty wedge
give me an LOS wall and I will stop bitching about utility, lol
sweet kettle
@graceful mason every 3 mins? It sounds useless to me
graceful mason
You make it give the entire raid a 20% of our hp shield and you can use it as a healer cd
modern brook
literally every other pull but ok
chilly brook
I think a group wide support ability that was powerful enough and exclusive to prot would be a nice way to take it
prisma crane
@daring marlin it's not as useful when all dps warriors have the same thing
graceful mason
Having a tank fill a healing roll seems legit
That creates a good reason to switch to a warrior for a fight
Which is what we lack
prisma crane
considering most healers in high keys do damage often anyways, i dont think adding more healing via the tank will change much
graceful mason
Itd help us more in raid than m+ yeah
prisma crane
but we dont need help in raids
sweet kettle
Aside from dmg prot warrior only offers situational things mostly when you want to cheese something
sweet kettle
Spell reflect?
prisma crane
maybe in legion, idk about now
sweet kettle
Bolster talent
sick sentinel
Healers may not be able to dps, but we do the dps for them
sweet kettle
You can legit ignore a lot of things as prot
prisma crane
not when your ass is kiting
sweet kettle
Your ass doesn't need to kite all the time
sick sentinel
Is there something that I am missing?
sweet kettle
We are not OP
prisma crane
im not talking about being OP
sick sentinel
We are not 👌 ,we are not trash
prisma crane
i never said we're trash
sweet kettle
It's harder to play around prot
graceful mason
I just want somebody to say "Let me switch to my prot warrior for this"
Which is never going to happen right now
sweet kettle
Compared to a Dh or dk prot isn't that amazing for dungeons
sand egret
can we just take a moment to at least say that out of all the bugs and issues we complain about in this game, at least we don't have that Fallout 76 bug haha
sweet kettle
What bug?
sand egret
if it triggers it uninstalls the whole 50GB beta
modern brook
the one where ppl bought it
sand egret
how to trigger it?
PRESS ANY BUTTON ON THE CLIENT
Bethesda's response: Don't press any buttons on the client.
😁
sand egret
now who wants to make bets on how fast that gets turned into the "charm" of the game
sleek radish
I have a question!
sand egret
very interesting how communities have different standards for different studios
anywho, that's all
prisma crane
@sweet kettle every key with every tank, what level are we talking about? because atm, if i wanna do high keys, it's not looking great for people who aren't DKs or DH and some monks
sleek radish
On this site https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRvMMhBT1xyvECDvAlxXirfLYtgzYZ18vjY3zRyA4LU7NgVg5Vmj-MroMT5W6i94q0aYNodyer0hbZ3/pubhtml# it says that plague bomb is not blockable. But on this guide https://tanknotes.tk/Uldir/Vectis it says you can block it if you face the boss
prisma crane
sweet kettle
10 and above keys
modern brook
IDG why people still share this metric as if its a statement on the staet of our class
sweet kettle
If only care about pushing obviously you aren't gonna play prot
modern brook
turns out grip is pretty fucking good in M+
sand egret
because people like to throw data images as validation haha
prisma crane
that's the point, grip isnt a "tank" thing, it's a utility thing
the whole reason most of us dont bitch about how tanky we are, but about our utility
sick sentinel
Dks will always be better than warriors because of grip, it's huge
prisma crane
and i could complain for other tanks too, but we're in the prot discord, i play prot, it's what im going to talk about
sand egret
well, comparative utlilty tbh
sweet kettle
Yeah we are worse than dk and Dh that isn't something new
prisma crane
but why is that just accepted and that's it?
modern brook
thats literally all that metric says
sick sentinel
Also monks can stagger a million damage and run around for ever with 1 health
sweet kettle
Cause blizzard can't give a mass grip to every class
modern brook
Because every tank having ag rip is stupid
prisma crane
"fuck it, they'll just be better forever, let's make lemonaid with the lemons we have"
sweet kettle
You can work around the no grip problem
modern brook
The problem with warrior's utility is that our mitigation isnt there to make up for its lack of it
in comparison to something like dk
sick sentinel
I'm ok with being in the 10-14 range as a prot when dks are at the 15-19
prisma crane
imo, you shouldnt be
modern brook
The solution should never be homogenization.
sweet kettle
Dks just have better answers to the problems they are facing
prisma crane
if you think i dont know how to work around my class, idk what to tell you
sick sentinel
@sleek radish I do not have an answer for you and probably nobody of us does, I think you should wait for a yellow...
modern brook
The only thing I think is that if your major complaint with the class is "Well dks have grip, and grip is absurdly good for the content i like to run"
then reroll
sick sentinel
The way I play around not having mass grip is skystep+ LoS
prisma crane
that's not my major complaint
i never even said grip before you did
i said U T I L I T Y
modern brook
K
sweet kettle
What other utility dk has other than grip
modern brook
1:16 PM
]
bullfango
:
The only thing I think is that if your major complaint with the class is "Well dks have U T I L I T Y, and U T I L I T Y is absurdly good for the content i like to run"
then reroll
prisma crane
sigh
sweet kettle
Grip is just too good and you can't do anything about it
We have an aoe stun an aoe fear insane dmg and a group hp increase
sand egret
the issue with perception is that it doesn't accurately depict balance. It's always skewed. If you're doing the highest content the smallest difference becomes a much, much larger one. There will always be the "optimal" and players will follow the path of least resistance and prefer it. The numbers will skew further and further to that and propagate the perception more. Could the tanks be closer? Sure, but the higher you got he gap will inevitably widen. Also remember that Utility is pretty relative to the content. The way M+ are designed it favors big pulls and those tanks that can facilitate that the best will rise to the top. That's my take
prisma crane
i guess i'm trying to make 1 and 1 equal 3 to you guys... cuz you know, the game can't ever change
modern brook
Its not that the game cant change
prisma crane
@sweet kettle so does an arms warrior
shut summit
@sleek radish it was blockable on beta/ ptr but was changed at some point
modern brook
Its that the solution you're presenting is boring
sweet kettle
@prisma crane arms has an aoe stun ? Arms has intercept?
sand egret
Intimidating Shout
can confirm from my last ML where I had a some PvP arms warrior IS every fucking pack
sweet kettle
Sorry meant to say stun
sand egret
mostly because every dps and their mother has one
sweet kettle
But they are not
prisma crane
but they are
sand egret
if Rumbling Earth turned that shit into a disoreint
sand egret
hell yea
sweet kettle
Then why they removed them from the dps specs of warrior?
sweet kettle
They don't
neon tangle
Also gotta consider our AoE stun in the context of the meta, DH are prolly the most popular / best dps for m+ and they have a way bigger stun
sand egret
DHs, Rogues, Pallies, Shamans, BM hunters, Shadowfury, yada yada. Just stuns out the ass
Leg Sweep
the game is just chalk filled with Stuns that the chances you're running with 2 others is just high
prisma crane
btw, fear shares DR with stun
ocean acorn
i think my only problem with fear is that some enemies dont get feared that are undead
sand egret
it's also why mass grip has the sneaky benefit of serving as an unDR'able interupt
prisma crane
also, the mobs you often want to stun are casters, who dont like to group up well anyways
ocean acorn
like doing KR u dont have a stun
prisma crane
at least priests can shackle them
ocean acorn
everything is undead
sweet kettle
Stop complaining about what your spec doesn't have and start playing around it
prisma crane
@sweet kettle stop defending every fault we have
some of them are aspects of the class
which is great
and we DO have strengths
but dont ignore weaknesses
sweet kettle
I don't
sand egret
I do. It's not inviting DPS classes with a bunch of stuns. However, that is a large portion of the roster. Denying there are a lot of stuns which reduces the overall effectivness of Shockwave is a tad silly
neon tangle
@sweet kettle Considering the state of prot in m+ right now I think it’s fair to say our kit is a little... lacking
sweet kettle
Or the kits of the other tanks Dh dk is just too buffed
sand egret
which then begs the question: do you give tools to the underserved or nerf the top?
prisma crane
i prefer bringing stragglers up than to pull the top down
pulling the top down is shitty all around
prisma crane
they even gave a form of grip to DH jsut so that DK werent the only ones with it
frosty wedge
agreed, I like grip and mass grip an they are just a aprt of what makes a DK a DK
neon tangle
Welp looking at the changes for 8.1, there’s very little that’s going to massively hurt DKs in m+
sand egret
and the sigil aspect of the DH is nuanced enough to stand on its own
frosty wedge
if anything DK multitarget DPS goes up
prisma crane
as far as i've heard, almost nothing changes for DKs and depending on scaling it may be a slight buff
frosty wedge
yeah
neon tangle
Bonestorm took a nerf
sand egret
the bonestorm nerf will be noticed
neon tangle
So you can’t pull like half the map
sand egret
^ which is the really important part to fix imho.
frosty wedge
I mean.... yous till can - bonestorm will still heal upto 15% of your HP every second
neon tangle
And a small nerf to will of the necropolis (their take X% less damage below Y% health)
frosty wedge
add the rest of your self heal to that and it's still bonkers
neon tangle
this is kinda a silly point, but I really feel like our kit was fun when it was originally made
Around wrath
5mans you could overgear, do all the movement meant you could just sprint through
In m+ tho movement abilities are only really useful for running away, and generally you’re spending all your time actually killing mobs
prisma crane
and we're not even kings of movement anymore anyways
ember arrow
monks, dh
daring marlin
Wrath was a good meme. Wear all DPS gear do most of the damage in 5-mans
prisma crane
MoP, wear all tank gear, do most damage always 😉
prisma crane
i shit on prot pallies in SoO
prisma crane
lol yea they owned ToT
daring marlin
infinite vengeance
prisma crane
cheesed every boss
hard minnow
Hey there, I was wondering as I'm only getting started as prot war, is there some stats caps ?
prisma crane
yup
ember arrow
take a a shot every time someone in skyhold suggest warr should get massgrip
wheat bronze
You know what would make us more viable in M+? I'm thinking Thunder Clap should bring enemies to you instead of slow.
😛
ember arrow
so like masgrip then?
frosty wedge
I mean, not really thogh
ember arrow
time for my shot
frosty wedge
the utility of mass grip is it doesn't have to be to you
wheat bronze
That was the intent, Levko.
frosty wedge
I've definitely used mass grip to fix people's fuckups on last boss of atal, etc
grip all the adds back to the furthest one when melee derps and doesn't run far enough
frosty wedge
lol
ember arrow
i think bonestorm nerf does nothing tbh, since you cant really pull more than 5 mobs anyway. and if u do, after bonestorm expires u get popped
on relevant content ofc
frosty wedge
agreed
wheat bronze
Maybe when infested isn't a thing anymore
frosty wedge
the only silly healing I had from it last week was those little droplet fuckers in SOTS
those suck with bolstering
and bad DPS
lol
ember arrow
but dont take my word for it
didnt log in in a month
when classdesign gets fixed
also, bdk armor will remain unchanged
literally
so that nerf basically made them much squishier without boneshield, and same with it up, but there isnt a point where boneshield isnt active
frosty wedge
actually withs claing it'll get better
the armor being the same on a BDK was at 379
as higher ilvl gear factors in it'll probably end up being higher
just means you actually have to maintain bone shield or you'll get trucked
frosty wedge
of cours
e
just like at no point should you not have ISB up
which is why i firmly believe baseline stagger needs to be nerfed into the floor
stark sage
well its just good design to reward players with actually using their skills
frosty wedge
baseline of 60+% going to stagger is bullshit
sand egret
still in favor of throwing mobs 😃
frosty wedge
that's a trinket?
steel mauve
Spore is pretty garbage
frosty wedge
good call
mighty gulch
got a nice haste upgrade
sand egret
if you don't have blockades, you can just buy that shit 😃
mighty gulch
how much?
sand egret
~30k on my servert
frosty wedge
under 10k on my server now
frosty wedge
I bought a blockades for 8k on my paly last week
sand egret
lowest I could get for my druid last week was like 25k?
frosty wedge
yeah replace the 340 with blockades
mighty gulch
kk
frosty wedge
what realm are you on sparky
sand egret
i really hope you don't say my realm, for your sake haha
frosty wedge
lol
sand egret
cuz apparently my shit suuucks
frosty wedge
what realm is that? I'm curious about price now
mighty gulch
wyrmrest accord
sand egret
Hakkar
same prices horde side on Area-52 as well
(that's my druid)
errr
Baelgun, shit forgot I transferred
frosty wedge
blockades is 17.5k on wyrmrest
mighty gulch
yikes
frosty wedge
I'm on area 52
sand egret
I used to be on there
mighty gulch
mind if i ask another question?
sand egret
transferred my Druid in legion to mythic raid, god that was dumb
yes. you only get one
frosty wedge
that's why we're here Sparky 😃
oblique garnet
blockades is like 6k atm on Draenor Eu
sand egret
unless you payed for premium
frosty wedge
yeah Blockades is currently 8.5k on Area52
sand egret
j,,,
mighty gulch
yeah
sand egret
honestly, no
frosty wedge
yeah
mighty gulch
i got fucked in the ass
sand egret
I love viens
frosty wedge
the only trait worth dropping ilvl for is deafening crash
sand egret
but that's me
mighty gulch
i have crash and plating x2
frosty wedge
😦
mighty gulch
can i have F
sand egret
veins + gemhide + bloodsport is actually really sexy to me
mighty gulch
same
tacit smelt
Blockades was 15k last night on Area 52, it happened over night for that sharp of a price drop
sand egret
so i would probably rock the 360 myself
frosty wedge
no idea quackr, it fluctuates though, b/c it was 8.5 lastw eek when i bought mine
sand egret
well it ain't fucking 30k!
mighty gulch
just bought blockades
wild spear
It's weird that an MMO can arrive at a state where the plate guys with shields are sub-optimal and get outperformed as tanks by cockamamie gimmick classes.
ember arrow
thats a weird argument
wild spear
No it's not.
ember arrow
tanking sint always taking dmg
even in d&d you can make a monk that dodgetanks
or a class that heals it back
uneven mason
My favorite tank ever in D&D
was a monk/rogue/druid
48AC unbuffed, but only 107HP at level 23
uneven mason
if I got hit, I'd probably die
ember arrow
u play 4e?
uneven mason
3.5
uneven mason
fully epic buffed I was something insane like 86 Ac, all but 18 of it was avoidance
ember arrow
but my point is
that tanking isnt same as taking the dmg with a big shield or plate
necessarily
uneven mason
right
ember arrow
not getting hit also prevents dmg
debuffing enemies
d&de is a bad example prob
since u dont need a tank at all
uneven mason
Barbarian in the party had almost 400hp, only 26AC but reduced everything but like 50% then 12 more... (The other type of tank)
uneven mason
at level 27 its not that crazy
(27 in 3.5 was pretty deep into EPIC)
lets just say he got hit, a lot
but didn't care
ember arrow
it depends if the AI
DM
is smart
or is dumb
and actualyl focuses the barbarian
instead of stunning, sleeping, incapping
etc etc etc
uneven mason
Well anyone in that party was pretty "tanky"
but was just giving the supporting example - I played an avoidance tank (high dex, insane dodge/parry mods)
and we had a "Meat shield"
uneven mason
Its really hard to pull off
uneven mason
not being hit by a CR 34 dragon is not snowflakey, its just common sense
wild spear
Aesthetically.
ember arrow
i find it awesome to dodge things
and describing it
its really a flavour argument youre makin g
in wow, what armor type u wear is irrelevant anyway
armor is fixed by passives
or with abilities
wild spear
I badly want to roll Protection.
sand egret
with or without flashlight?
mighty gulch
Next patch after the DC nerf. Is it worth going with brace for impact x3 and switching to devastator
Block for days.
final mist
Devastator is more clearly the BiS ST DPS talent next patch, but BV still gives Rage, and is thus going to blow it out of the water defensively (and is still better for AoE).
mighty gulch
So if i was doing a aoe trash. Use A DC and BV but single target BfI and Devastator?
uneven mason
With more open GCDs it actually makes more sense to go Devastator
the RPS gap shrinks
but BV is still a clear leader for Multitarget
mighty gulch
So am i onto something?
uneven mason
Kinda
I mean, DC is more or less on par with BFI/IF and bloodsport will see a small nudge
vagrant cape
wait a minute... talent and azerite trait diversity?!? in MY BFA prot warrior?!?!
uneven mason
I mean
mighty gulch
(this is for next patch btw after DC nerf)
vagrant cape
you could make arguments for ravager and not vaccinating your kids
doesn't mean they're good or you should
uneven mason
That was my point
frosty wedge
LOL
vagrant cape
excellent
uneven mason
if they buff our baseline
frosty wedge
i love that you lumped ravager in with anti vaxxers
frosty wedge
I actually just lol'd
uneven mason
It makes more sense to lump Never Surrender with anti vax
final mist
You can go do whatever you want, just don't talk about your alternative talents and facts in this channel or we're going to have problems.
vagrant cape
discretely googles what never surrender does
vagrant cape
oh god, please nsfw tag that shit
uneven mason
Its the talent that works after you're already dead
vagrant cape
purgatory?!?1
you heard it here first, folks
prot warriors have had purgatory all along
and not just from their existence in BFA
remote tusk
If it was only like that.
dusk locust
what if there was an encounter where you had a debuff that set your HP at half, and you couldn't be healed above that. like the last boss of shrine
frosty wedge
I honestly think some form of stagger should have been warrior's T-Swift ability. "Shake it off" would be our purifying brew, lol
dusk locust
you're giving up bolster tho i guess
mighty gulch
mighty gulch
It's 7 pm here
frosty wedge
3 PM here
7 pm... where the hell? are you in Iceland? lol
ah nm, we haven't had daylight savings yet, so the UK and whatnot is all 4 hours ahead, not 5 for a bit
lol
tropic star
Nothing scary about safeguard
mighty gulch
i use it if i offtank
vagrant cape
I kinda wanna try tanking a mythic plus or a heroic boss with the shittiest talents and no DC just to see how big of a difference it makes
I spout all this stuff about how necessary the proper talents and DC is, but I've never even tried the alternative
sand egret
I've done the lack-of-dc thing by accident
dusk locust
i'm curious too, but i feel like i'd have to kite a lot more without bolster
sand egret
I tried Dragon Roar for abit
dusk locust
i can see an argument for it on necrotic
kinda
like, necrotic, and you have no space to move around (waycrest)
sand egret
is nice to have your own personal slow and the big single burst.....but boy does Avatar feel shallow
frosty wedge
waycrest I just pull either into rooms or courtyards
fuck those hallways
especially sanguine weeks
dusk locust
yeah. usually i take the first pack or two out, then i kind of pull far back and slowly move forward while they drop sanguine, and ideally the group is there with me
sand egret
i'll bring em to the back and make the long walk as wel clear on sanguine. However, there's a 40% chance my healer won't get the idea and will be stuck on the other side of now the Red Sea of sanguine pools.
(for hallways)
sand egret
or just back-walking a mob that drops pools on players...like the zombie boss in AD. Maybe we don't stand in my very obvious path....you ever play Snake bruh?
frosty wedge
yeah, that's why i usually pull into open areas
lol
oh god people on that boss in AD
ALWAYS in my path
dusk locust
i'm trying to upgrade beyond pulling one pack at a time and rarely two, but it rarely goes well
lol
sand egret
my favorite dps habit is ranged players feeling the need to always be at range when stacking on the boss is just way, way superior
I get it, you got cleaved one time back in Vanilla and you've never been in melee range since....but come on...
dusk locust
i played melee dps for so long that it feels terrible to be out at range. i tend to move into melee regardless
which is also bad
upper spoke
physical ranged attacks blockable = "shoot" is blockable?
upper spoke
basically, if it says "physical damage," now u can block it?
idk ... things like buster shot in ML?
lusty grotto
for the most part
frosty wedge
yeah for the most part now if it's physical you can block it
I still think blocking should stop the application of necrotic, lol
silk mortar
That would be kinda busted ^^
frosty wedge
meh, the fact that getting hit means my monk is like 40% less likely to get hit by the next attack is busted
and dodging means necrotic doesn't apply
when you have avoidance tanks vs mitigation tanks, having stuff like necrotic REALLY favours one over the other
sick sentinel
don't forget ring of peace or statue taking the first 12ish stacks for you as you pull
frosty wedge
yep, or giving you the separation to drop stacks when they get high