oh derp
#protection
next ermine
uneven mason
you can basically have an IP up for every one - have block the whole time, DS the whole time,
yeah Critcial block for shatter OMnomnom
when that crit blocks you walk out looking like he didn't even hit you
next ermine
did we ever get a mastery update or any hints?
last i saw our mastery was removed on ptr
next ermine
oh did they
uneven mason
took IP off the GCD
next ermine
nvm then lol
uneven mason
I feel like every time they remove our mastery
or an ability
its like 2 guys who are not mechanically inclined working on their car
they put it back together, but always find some little thingamajigger
that they're not really sure where it went, but hte car runs so who gives a fuck
They removed IP
put it back in
missing 1.7x of its stacking
but it works so who gives a fuck
ivory barn
skill floor removal is not a bad thing. but they do need to make the class somewhat difficult lol
civic narwhal
Are they extending demo shout but 4 sec instead of 2 for every tc?
prisma crane
no
next ermine
demo shout caps at +6 secs with DC
next ermine
well, in 8.1
uneven mason
there is that
sand egret
no in 8.1 you can only extend it thru 3 claps
uneven mason
so it won't matter in or out of avatar
sand egret
after that it won't extend your DS
uneven mason
basic CD on TC will give you maximum benefit of DC
prisma crane
you'd want it during avatar anyways for teh additional damage
prisma crane
and that means 100% use avatar, TC, DS, TC, etc
sand egret
the real nerf is the uptime you gain via UF's CDR
uneven mason
it brings DC more in line with BFI/IF
next ermine
I personally enjoy using Bloodsport atm
uneven mason
also with the increased uptime on SB in 8.1 and the "buff" to IP BFI and Bloodsport are in theory, seeing an increase in value
sand egret
however, as we've definitely talked about it's very much offset by what else we got in return
more importantly we're not balanced upon precious pillars anymore
uneven mason
well
we are
but the pillar's are a bit wider now
not like say
sleeping on the floor wide like BrM
sand egret
eh, not really the analogy I was going for haha
uneven mason
"BrM - so even the dude who does ludes during raid can tank"
sand egret
it's just, independent of other classes, it's generally not smart to have functionality of a non-critical feature for a spec to be so impactful on the future design of the spec
in our case, when one azerite trait effectively limits our future design space, it's better to give some breathing room early.
But as far as a first step, I'm looking forward to more freedom in when I put up IP, and less feeling the need for haste to get my SB's in a comfortable flow
uneven mason
So uh the M+ guide for Prot warriors on wowhead is blank
this a troll
or did they actually delete it
frosty wedge
LOL
sand egret
I'm seeing it...
granite vale
btw guys does some buff traits share cd with other buff traits?
sand egret
elaborate?
granite vale
i'll just check the traits names
for example
blood rite+incite of the pack+overwhelming power+strength in numbers
sand egret
they all should have thier own cds
granite vale
sweet cause i was in dungoen and having 2,2k haste alamost in every pull
and was wondering if one of them gonna interfere with the other
sand egret
so if i'm reading this correctly, are you asking if when one procs the others will not? If that's the case, then the answer is they can all proc at once if the stars align
stuff like Elemental Whirl, for instance, can proc on itself and you can get two buffs going at once
granite vale
nice
sand egret
it also seems like a lot of them are on a PPM system, so it's actually more realistic to see a bunch going at once depending on how your pulls go
earnest zinc
This is the M+ guide:
Step 1: Create a Death Knight
Step 2: Level it to 120
Step 3: Get it to 370 ilvl
Step 4: Tank M+ with the DK and get much better results
sand egret
lol the long-troll
granite vale
if you are doing 13+ i might understand
sand egret
the lesser known of attempts
granite vale
but to 12 i had no issues its just groups issue
earnest zinc
That guide is only really for +15 and higher
sand egret
which at that point begs the question, if you need a guide should you really be doing +15s
earnest zinc
Yea, you should have a BDK at that point
granite vale
😛 if u like competition on raiderio there is a ladder for only prot warriors
try to beat the other prot's
earnest zinc
You are a fool to compete in M+ if you aren't a BDK. I'm talking leaderboard top 100, not just +10s to gear.
+10s everyone is perfectly fine
sand egret
lol
naw what are you talking about
this game is ALL about the top 100
everything else doesn't matter
in fact only 100 people play this game
earnest zinc
Why do you think +7 pugs decline Prot Warriors lol
outer dew
???
sand egret
?
brazen nova
?
outer dew
i get into +13 pugs
sand egret
never been shot down
outer dew
lol
sand egret
like not once
granite vale
cause they want boost man
sand egret
i get the meme and all, but historically for me it's never happened
earnest zinc
I hate that addon
outer dew
you hate the add-on
granite vale
its good if u want to join other groups
outer dew
but you complain about not pushing top 100
granite vale
but if u doing ur key u need it 😛
sand egret
🤔
brazen nova
fuckin rip
sand egret
rough but honestly, prob not a group I'd want to run with anyway
plain ice
i've also gotten "sorry bud, you're a prot warrior"
sand egret
wait that shows YOUR score?
outer dew
yes
sand egret
I thought that was the hosts
brazen nova
uhh in my addon its mouseover
sand egret
(i don't use that addon)
regal knoll
What you think about the IP changes? Shouldn’t they increase back to 90%? I still have to level my warr to 120, done 3 characters now. When I saw Avatar was in our spell book, didn’t get why for prot it was just a dmg increase....your size increases, imo would make sense that our hp/def would increase as well?
brazen nova
that thing to the right its my score, but you mousover and it shows host
brazen nova
huh weird, my doesn't show it like that or im a total idiot
frosty wedge
@regal knoll no, 50% is perfect for what IP is meant to do
plain ice
when's the last time you updated your addon?
they fixed that
should be updating daily for the most accurate info
brazen nova
checking no
sand egret
@regal knoll TL:DR, 90% wouldn't really make a difference based on the other changes that happened since Legion. Avatar is fucking amazing especially with Unstoppable Force and is the reason we can top dps meters on packs
frosty wedge
@regal knoll it's more than a DMG increase - it's amazing when you think about how much rage you get to spend, and how much that lets you keep demo shout up b/c of deafening crash. Also, Avatar/DS come up super fast b/c of Anger Management
sand egret
IP is going back off the GCD soon so it should feel better as well in 8.1. Oh and slightly minor but Avatar does give Rage on use
regal knoll
Got it yeah, I know with M+ dmg is important as well, but as a tank I also dont to be beat up likr a pack of butter right? 🤪
frosty wedge
I think he was refering to avatar
sand egret
oh well, yeah Avatar does have defensive value. It breaks roots/snares 😃
regal knoll
I was, just stating when I see the animation of the skill Avatar....my mind thinks, why doesnt it also make my defense higher 🤪
open bluff
prisma crane
it's why i hate shit like that baked into rotational abilities, that was the worst part about T20 with zerker rage and being unable to have it up when i needed it for random fears
regal knoll
But agree and anger management is like a must anyways, dunno why they bother to add the other talents
sand egret
yeah but that's another issue for another patch
regal knoll
I played monk and dk before, but end of Legion I levelled my HM tauren warrior. I resist to play another tank 😉 but that’s me playing also elemental shaman as a main in any state it’s in 🤪
You guys recon these changes will be a good start for 8.1?
sand egret
@prisma crane well the flip side (I do agree that when utlity spells become rotational it does defeat the purpose of said utility see: Dispersion in Legion for a bit) it's AM that's really making Avatar into a rotational ability and not a true "cooldown". So it's really more of a product of AM.
prisma crane
i think the changes are "something", but a good start? idk, at least it's something
sand egret
changes are an overall improvement, but not groundbreaking. Honestly, it's a good step
prisma crane
has nothing to do with AM and more to do with UF
regal knoll
I miss my legos haha esp these bracers
sand egret
UF wouldn't have its impact if AM didn't make those windows happen significantly more frequently, imho.
UF is also a knock-on from AM
prisma crane
you still wouldnt sit on avatar
cosmic peak
Hello, i'm a new player..wanna try a War Prot, it is viable now?
sand egret
ohjeez
prisma crane
with a the gain to rage you get from avatar via UF
sand egret
Yes.
frosty wedge
Everything is viable
regal knoll
They were gonna reduce shield CD right?
frosty wedge
except druid, they're screwed
sand egret
they did by 2 seconds
prisma crane
as a new player @cosmic peak you should test things out and play whatever you enjoy, you'll be able to tackle any content you wish
frosty wedge
yeah 8.1 recharge goes from 18 to 16 seconds
sand egret
eh, druid's get an equally bad rep imho
prisma crane
just understand that atm there's a negative stigma about a few classes and we're one of them
sand egret
☝
outer dew
at least we won't get the nerf bat
sand egret
yeah it'll make it a bit smoother especially at lower haste values
uneven mason
Love going todo a dungeon with a DPS mainspec DK, "You want me to tank" - No, I want you to grip shit I mark so I can beat you in DPS
sand egret
at the end of the day, proper play will and will continue to dictate very much how well you do in a run
regal knoll
Well tbh grip is a very good skill in dungeons
uneven mason
It is
thankfully, Unholy and frost DKs bring it
and I still beat him in trash DPS
sand egret
frost dk's, my pocket pick for KR
uneven mason
mmhmm
uneven mason
Like, "I normally kite this pack and then grip them into posistion" ok - I normally tell everyone to stand behind that wall so they just run in
regal knoll
Dunno why but I hate rogues....are they ever at the bottom?
prisma crane
DKs are just good in KR because of their control undead or w/e it's called
frosty wedge
LOL
uneven mason
Typhoon the poor mans deathgrip
prisma crane
i'd take a poor man's deathgrip over no grip
sand egret
control undead is also huge, but I like a lot of the rest of their kit as well
frosty wedge
and grip, and mass grip, and every other insane tool that class has
urban walrus
My favourite comp is one where we complete the dungeon on time
uneven mason
(this is what happens when you have someone who plays your spec desinging you)
urban walrus
Not sure that's a fair comment imho
sand egret
🤦
frosty wedge
I usually run me, rdruid, boomkin, mage, rogue or DH
uneven mason
How DKs get developed - "I like this and this and this and need this, lets do it!" How all other tanks get developed - WTF is this...oh I dunno, start chopping and eventually it'll be something
prisma crane
i mean, we all know that's not true, despite sometimes feeling that way
regal knoll
DK is my 2nd fav tank spec, but still no go 😉
frosty wedge
the warrior has gotten 0 meaningful thought in so long
regal knoll
Well isnt that like a probkem, people preferring groups with thise specs mostly?
prisma crane
you really believe that blizzard is intentionally tailoring one class above the rest?
sand egret
it's a big conspiracy imho
frosty wedge
people prefer groups with those specs bc those specs are literally BUILT for the content
uneven mason
No be believe that one class has a developer uniquely equipped with a greater understanding of how that class should function.
sand egret
they're all in a smokey room, sitting back like "Yeah, see, before we paint the town red we're gonna make Warriors shit, see!"
light oasis
There has always been an imbalance of utility. But m+ really really shines a light on it
uneven mason
and I believe that no designer actively plays protection warriors
regal knoll
Watch my elemental shaman after 8.1 🤪
uneven mason
which is why MATHEMATICALLY we're gold
light oasis
Just like it did for immunities and DR with one shots in legion m+
sand egret
and some people believe the earth is flat
prisma crane
more like those specs compliment that content well, speed running dungeons wasnt a thing when DKs were first created
sand egret
to each their own i guess
uneven mason
mechanically we're really really hard to play
regal knoll
It’s not flat? Let me google
prisma crane
mechanically, all tanks are really simple to play
sand egret
inbefore: "WOW IS SIMPLE"
prisma crane
it's not astrophysics, dont pretend like you have to be some savant to play prot warrior
regal knoll
The paladin tank is the only tank spec that makes me fall asleep though
uneven mason
hard to play in that, we're given an obscenely short EHP window for healers to react to any changes in damage intake
So we have to be exceptionally proactive
prisma crane
no, we have to be proactive
prisma crane
not exceptionally proactive
it helps, but we don't have to play perfect to succeed
it just helps
uneven mason
any break, in our plan, leads to a very punishing situation, and since we're already proactively using all of our resources to stay head of the damage - we have nothing left to use in situations where healers are forced to react to something else
regal knoll
Proactive meaning pressing mitigation well times before dmg cones in?
prisma crane
yes, others can play poorly, but we dont have to be 99% players to succeed
uneven mason
we have no "backup plan" as it were
regal knoll
*timed
urban walrus
I think it's the difference in hits we take when we mitigate Vs not mitigating
eternal solstice
Unfortunately our perfect isn't enough to compete with imperfect
uneven mason
well that too
Right so a perfect warrior is an average BrM
I love that about the class
urban walrus
Healers find it hard to predict out damage intake?
uneven mason
this was more of a comment on how mathematically - warriors are fine (as in, looking at the code, we're a well designed spec)
frosty wedge
we have incredibly predictable, smooth dmg intake when we're playied well
uneven mason
but gameplay wise, we're punishing (hard) due to low tolerance for mistakes
frosty wedge
played subpar we're spiky as hell
regal knoll
But doesnt it feel better when you play a hard spec good than an easy spec?
urban walrus
We aren't really a spikey tank just unpredictable?
uneven mason
It does Aelor
prisma crane
we take spikes when we get several unmitigated hits in a row
uneven mason
however because we are subject to this punishment
we are sat over other less punishing tanks
eternal solstice
It does, but you're kinda laying into the anonymous role of noticing yourself because no one cares about how well you play a prot warrior
uneven mason
^^
regal knoll
I know nobody cares but I do 😉
urban walrus
Thing is there is always going to be times when we don't have mitigation and at times it's hard to define when that will be and use healer CDs around that
regal knoll
I dont get satisfaction playing easy specs. Ok, apart fron bm hunters but I love pets 🤪
urban walrus
Agreed, the spec is fairly engaging with AM and last stand
Not to much going on but enough
uneven mason
now 8.1 goes a little bit to "fixing" us
urban walrus
Agreed
uneven mason
but doesn't really address anything NOW (which is the issue, hey we just got benched a WHOLE TEIR, we're not getting tank spots back)
regal knoll
Let’s hope it will be there before bcon
urban walrus
Slight less punishing for bad prot wars too?
uneven mason
And it doesn't address damage we can't mitigate
IP off the GCD is both a QOL fix and a newbie trap
since they're going to slap the shit out of that button like its 2017
and then rage starve for SB
regal knoll
Same happens w healers, I love resto shamans but people only want monks and discs
urban walrus
Nah to say you got benched from mythic raids means either you are super high end or bad or the guild is clueless
uneven mason
which is going to require more rage due to shorter CD
sand egret
ya know, I could totally see perception get worse as people dont have range for SB
uneven mason
I got benched for mythic raids because they wanted a BDK
or a BrM
after tanking every bit of HC progression, outperforming the other tanks
sand egret
but like....that's also a social thing it's hard to like "fix" that
uneven mason
Nah, they're not wrong
eternal solstice
There was a post on the forums recently on "What is like to play your class/spec" and here it is
Like you showed up to a really cool party you wanted to go to to have fun and meet other people and do cool things.
Just as you're about to take your first step through the door a BDK and DH come out from the side of the door frame and give you the ol' "no weenies allowed turd" Then the whole party behind the BDK and DH yells "YEAH YOU BIG WEENIE" and you put your head to the ground and walk away as they decline...I mean slam the door.
uneven mason
a BrM and BDK are far more forgiving
I mean, they're not even addressing the BrM being too forgiving
or BDK
urban walrus
But war was still plenty viable for progress
uneven mason
not asking for nerfs, asking for them to have the same level of require interaction as the other tanks
Yes, we are viable
regal knoll
Yeah people prefer taking the tanks or specs that are on the top....Im sure a well played prot is better than a badly played lazy bdk or monk
frosty wedge
that's the problem
urban walrus
Well not in mythic raids
sand egret
unfortunately that is the problem
frosty wedge
well played warr is still not as easy to heal as a shitty BrM
urban walrus
I totally disagree
uneven mason
@regal knoll a perfect prot is equal to a bad BrM
because a perfect BrM is equal to a bad BrM
urban walrus
Totally disagree
outer dew
???
uneven mason
and play BrM
frosty wedge
you can disagree all youw ant, the logs support our position, lol
regal knoll
Got it, so that means it’s pretty bad then....didn’t know it was that bad
uneven mason
yeah, BrM Is tanking on autopilot
eternal solstice
2 prot warriors or 3 have killed M Ghuun now?
stark sage
thing is, the difference between a god BrM and a bad BrM is pretty minor, stagger just passively does so much work
eternal solstice
did that go up in 2 days?
frosty wedge
there are other factors obviouslky situational awareness, etc
uneven mason
there is a comparison log of 2 BrM tanks 1 has like 90% activity and the other has 28% activity and never uses ISB or PB
and its like....16% difference in their healing required
sand egret
stagger is also funamentally more progression oriented, imho
stark sage
i dont think it was activity. but yeah it was ISB uptime 28% vs 90+
uneven mason
yeah that
frosty wedge
it's 89% uptime vs 23% uptime
uneven mason
now a warrior
frosty wedge
the guy was active, he was just spamming purify
uneven mason
who isn't like...95%+ uptime on some mitigation of some sort
is going to die
A L O T
frosty wedge
if you tried tot ank fetid without basically 100% uptime on shield block you'd get trucked into the floor
stark sage
i have seen fetid logs, in heroic, where thrash was blocked ~50% and they got the kill without any deaths
with enough ilvl, prot isnt that punishing
eternal solstice
Nice dice rolls on those blocks
uneven mason
Well I mean, sure if you're doing HC fetid at 370+
I can basically stand there and face tank him
you're going to look like complete garbage in the logs though
frosty wedge
this wasn't thrash, this was main tanking, and it was weeks ago
think tanking HC fetid at 350 and not hitting mitigation
uneven mason
vs a warrior who does "stuff"
stark sage
you cant have 100% uptime on block
regal knoll
But with 95% uptime why bother adding it? If it’s on all the time anyways.....where’s the fun or skill?
frosty wedge
sb, sb, ls, sb, sb, sb
uneven mason
yeah thats what I told the GM
but its that perception thing
apperntly they had some hot shit HDH cancel their app when they saw that we were using a prot warrior
outer dew
why mythic raid if i can consiently farm gear outside of raid?
frosty wedge
plus DS 20% reduction up constantly
outer dew
why raid when i can start farming for vendor later?
uneven mason
that's basically what i've been doing
regal knoll
Well I prefer to think about what I oress instead of spamming buttons like a DH 🤪
uneven mason
slamming my head into M+ now
regal knoll
*press
eternal solstice
I'm raiding to clear content in Mythic, not sure
lusty grotto
yeah its simply perception, guild management that goes for FOTM choices because the top 5 guilds are doing it has absolutely no understanding of how a guild simply performs better when you have people that click and do their job well
eternal solstice
I'm not rerolling
regal knoll
Rerolling is for pus***s 🤪👌
lusty grotto
I've had issues like these in the past, and we've gotten around it by simply catering to our strengths and weaknesses. Thank god I don't raid lead anymore though.
outer dew
but your prog isn't gonna be limited by your tank chopice
lusty grotto
I think we're all in agreement here
eternal solstice
I enjoy it for surrre, does the rest of the Mass multiplayer online social aspect of the game like that I like prot warriors?
outer dew
i mean
lusty grotto
they do not, clearly
eternal solstice
I can tell you no
regal knoll
I play elemental shaman, and I still out dps some badly played dps classes
stark sage
prog can be limited by tank choice, if your tank is a weak player and needs a forgiving spec like brew
regal knoll
Not that I’m that amazing
outer dew
but that's an issue of player
eternal solstice
You 1k+ on your prot war?
stark sage
yeah it stems from the player
lusty grotto
prog can be limited by any choice if you have weak players and no way to replace them - players not classes
outer dew
i sit on 1k overall, too lazy to do SoB
stark sage
so you just have them reroll or get replaced
ashen trellis
Every spec in the game, if played well can out preform most players
regal knoll
I use aftershock, so like enhancement I play rng....but man is it good when rng is in your favor
urban walrus
Exactly, if you are reasonably good at prot you will never hold your guild back if you have equally skilled raid members
ashen trellis
Prot warrior specifically, if played well can seem better then the other tanks
ashen trellis
PRot still sucks fat cock right now, dont get me rwrong lol
stark sage
a prot who plays at a high skill level will outperform most other tanks at a lower skill level
certainly
regal knoll
That is one way of saying it Acog lol
urban walrus
Let's say your a top 500 guild or so, what part of uldir is going to hold you back by playing prot
eternal solstice
Well say you're top 500
and you even see a prot warrior
Lets get that out of the air first
ashen trellis
There's a few. its do-able. Its just not ideal
regal knoll
But isnt it also the gamers mentality in wow? Do hard content onky with the best specs?
ashen trellis
I certainly hate prot right now, but im not saying that it cant be done. Becuase it can.
urban walrus
Let's call it top 1000 then it makes no difference
stark sage
there are 10 parses, so not including any guild that private logs @eternal solstice
regal knoll
I pkay dark souls etc but I dont pick easy classes
urban walrus
My point still stands, I don't see anything in uldir that will hold you back as prot
regal knoll
The satisfaction when you beat a boss with a “weaker” character
ashen trellis
Prot is the Feral druid of tanks. Have to work 20 times harder then the button mashing brain dead classes just to be even.
eternal solstice
Okay so we just have to be exceptionally fucking good, perfection and nothing less
to be one of those 10
urban walrus
Nothing wrong with a bit of hard work
outer dew
not really
they're just good enough players
to justify to bring to a top guild
lol
lusty grotto
we all need to just upload more logs, if we want to change perception eventually
urban walrus
Top 500 isn't really a TOP guild
lusty grotto
im guilty cause i only upload logs when I'm arms 😦
outer dew
top 500 is still better than the avg population
lusty grotto
def will upload more logs as prot
outer dew
lol
urban walrus
To get top 500 raiding 4 days a week is not difficult
stark sage
when talking about community perception, top 500 is definitely high enough
eternal solstice
AoTC is better than half the population
urban walrus
Agreed
stark sage
@eternal solstice probably even more, i dont expect more than 30% to get aotc
eternal solstice
You right
urban walrus
But we are talking about by playing protection in raids - what will you struggle with in uldir
stark sage
like the majority of the playerbase doesnt raid heroic
urban walrus
Outside of top 50
regal knoll
How you guys deal w magic dmg btw? Damage apart from physical I mean? IP? And spell reflect only when magic dmg incoming is high?
urban walrus
I just don't see it personally
ashen trellis
Pucker your ass hole.
oblique garnet
DS
stark sage
ah yeah
regal knoll
Cheers still need to learn the dungeons since I started late into bfa, but aim to master this spec next to my shaman
ashen trellis
When 8.1 hits we are going to be a little better at mitigating magic.
IP off the gcd feels like home again
outer dew
i mean
sand egret
in reality dungeons is all preventing that shit from going off in the first place
unless its Asshat of Zul
then....well yeah.
signal plover
Brez is a CD ;)
regal knoll
GCD sucks for a few other specs too....always hate that time taken off a 3 min cds like ascendance
outer dew
3rd boss for ML tears me a new one if i don't SR or tell the healer to dispell it on me asap
sand egret
@regal knoll a lot of those cds had that internalized
like how Recklessness was increased in duration to account for the gcd
ashen trellis
Fury warrior playing Seige breaker, dragon roar..... Your opener takes ~4.5 seconds to even do anything lol
sand egret
@outer dew the goblin chick right?
regal knoll
I prefer ascendance with less time but use immediately then 😉
stark sage
🤔 the only GCD for fury that does 'nothing' is reck
outer dew
yeaaaaaap
oblique garnet
Why is there a gcd on charge
uneven mason
Because it breaks certain macros
regal knoll
And why they removed that amazing talent when you stun w charge 🤪
uneven mason
Because that would give us utility in M+
eternal solstice
Why is anything anything ¯_(ツ)_/¯
uneven mason
We had too many interrupts (but BDKs can have 4, thats cool)
primal crypt
Prob my favorite
uneven mason
that didn't DR with other stuns
primal crypt
And you took dmg
uneven mason
it would have made us so strong in M+ right now
sand egret
@outer dew Dark Iron that shit!
uneven mason
Warbringer you could intercept a rogue, and stun all the mobs around them +++
regal knoll
Yeah it is strong but they removed some amazing talents like indeed warbringer....they also removed gust of wind....are those changes for pvp since pvp players whined about certain talents?
uneven mason
If it works
oblique garnet
We still have 4 abilities that can be used as interrupts not including the racials
oblique garnet
^
prisma crane
not fear iirc
uneven mason
yes
outer dew
don't see what's the issue with them on the GCD
uneven mason
INtimidating shout was GCD
outer dew
makes sense to me for them to be on the GCD
uneven mason
has been since Banilla
prisma crane
i'll just have to take your word for it
oblique garnet
There hasnt been an official eta on classic release has there?
prisma crane
would also appreciate VR being off GCD, but that's just me...
regal knoll
Do other tanks also have certain killer skills put on gcd ?
prisma crane
some leak said November 2019, but take that with many grains of salt
oblique garnet
I hope that 8.1 revives my guild
chilly brook
The only spells that are left on the GCD for prot that I don't agree with being on the GCD are Avatar and Demoralizing Shout
regal knoll
Btw, what you folks think of the heart of azeroth? I expected more of it, like skill tree similar to artifact i stead of this dull thing you upgrade w ap?
stark sage
tbh charge on the GCD tilts me the most of any
oblique garnet
Honestly i keep forgetting it even exists HoA that is
regal knoll
Well I dont lol and this azerite armor...not even getting into that 😉
uneven mason
I think the traits should have been on the heart
brisk flax
\
uneven mason
rather than dice rolling
on 3 different slots
it has no interaction at all
wayworse than their universal "legendary" of the previous uh, what 4 expansions
lusty grotto
yeah i agree with you Mac
uneven mason
Like, there isn't even any weighing
item level still rules outside of one trait
It doesn't "feel good" when you get a good trait
it feels required
and then feels BAD when you get a shit trait
"Oh golly a 385 head peice with that Revenge trait, another pile of dogshit I have to keep track of"
Because good trait or bad trait, the item level is what matters
They could eliminate azerite tomorrow
and the only change i'd really make
is removing my WA that tracks uptime on DS
lusty grotto
My arms spec would cry though 😦
uneven mason
thats ok
lusty grotto
so i had to change to SD cause it sims higher
uneven mason
I liked Arms "Execute spam" felt like vanilla days
lusty grotto
i really really really like arms this expansion
i fucking hated Focused Rage with all my being
both in Prot and Arms
graceful adder
well focused rage was awful
lusty grotto
some people did like it though
graceful adder
it's understanable that you'd hate it
uneven mason
Focused rage is what they gave us after they removed Heroic Strike
lusty grotto
right
uneven mason
subconcious hatred eternally for it
Its like, someone giving you a puppy after running your baby over
and all that puppy does
is remind you that they fucking killed your baby
lusty grotto
lol
honestly though i have no idea why they removed HS
maybe make the game easier but then they make it harder by implementing FR?
uneven mason
I know we took heroic strike but uh, here's this ability thats 100x shittier than it
lusty grotto
cause now you gotta stack 3x FR for your SS to hit for a metric shitton, woo
uneven mason
I'll be honest
I renamed FR
in a macro to Heroic Strike
and used the HS icon
for like a year
uneven mason
well yeah
1
I have to watch out what i put in 1
because my muscle memory still occasionally makes me randomly tap it
since my rotation for so long was 213131313121331313131321313131313231313131313231313131323131313132
(1 HS, 2SS, 3Sunder+SB)
Although gosh, folks thought we have easy specs now...TBC Fury - hardest part, don't pull aggro, spam HS, press BT on CD, WW on CD /dance for 3 seconds
icy wadi
Is there a loose pawn string somewhere. I am reading on prot stats from icy and spreadsheet and would like a little more accurate
string than what is default in pawn
uneven mason
Don't use Pawn
on warriors at all in general
Protection doesn't have a simc data
so uh, I mean
just go for item level
icy wadi
Sounds good, ty.
weary python
Are any of the uldir trinkets actually worth it?
weary python
I think right now on Prot spec I use Blockades, and 370 briny barnacle
I also have a 375 Syringe, 360 disc
I hope the next raid tier trinkets are a bit better, I really don't want to farm m+ hoping for a titanforge proc
sick sentinel
385 doom's fury, 375 howler/fathoms
uneven mason
360 Rezan's 385 eyeball
I Mean, I use the eyeball because its actually a pretty huge chunk of absorb. and a lot of str
mostly the str
lusty grotto
syringe is solid
minor folio
is crystaline carapace any good?
the if you take 10% of your health you get like 12 armor
or should I take a damage trait instead
chrome falcon
@uneven mason FR was better than HS because it let you get 1 million damage SS crits in the first tier when you were only doing like 400k dps
It made me feel like a big strong warrior man
urban frost
Quick question, can someone share me some method dungeon tools imports?
the ones i found are kind of confusing to read (first time using the addon)
mighty gulch
Can I get a F in chat
It's this or a 355 with bloodsport, azerite veins and gemhide
Hey alexa play make me want to die
plain ice
F
mighty gulch
This helmet actually gives me depression
I have 2 pieces of 370 gear with plating now.
brisk flax
at least you probably got a shield lol
mighty gulch
ilvl 300 shield
brisk flax
i got a 350 i had to buy that i have had since before raids
mighty gulch
haven't had a single shield drop yet
brisk flax
shield drop rate is shit
worst than probably anything in game
i dont understand why the hell blizzard had to do that
brave idol
g
what do in use more shield block or ignore. tried to find when i asked before but i cant find the thread
dapper sky
The higher priority on anything able to be blocked is going to be shield block.
carmine bison
im reading conflicting info about callous reprisal.. whats the consensus on this trait? i just got a 385 chest with it today. Seems good for damage
cinder nova
Revenge does meh damage, ideally if you aren't capping SS is going to do more damage anyway so I'd hit that.
DR is nice tho
It's not a bad trait, by any means, but it's not da bess
carmine bison
yeah im losing 370 with brace for impact so i wasnt sure if i should be super disappointed or not
grats on shield btw
cinder nova
I mean, it's not as good as BFI, but I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm using shitanomics RP
But 385 shoulders so
¯_(ツ)_/¯
carmine bison
haha yea
merry cave
Hmm that shield is nice
sand egret
hmm has anyone done testing around how absorbs interact with IP?
i'm seeing some funny results
that don't seem to line up with what people have told me
in fact, if what I'm seeing is true, we're severely underrating potential value in shield trinkets
valid yew
Is there any protwarrior that have recorded all mythic kills on youtube?
valid yew
u know Sense youtube challen?
sand egret
not offhand
steel mauve
We arent really undervalueing shield trinkets, the tank trinkets this tier are just bad, the absorb ones have a large cd/icd on them, and absorb less than a fully capped IP does
sand egret
that's where the misconception lies
lucid kelp
warriors need a Battle res....We just..Yell at people until thjey get up
sand egret
as what i'm currently seeing from my testing thus far, is that the shield benefits from the 50% reduction
thus a 50k shield with IP active is effectively 50% more potent
looking at my bandages trinket i've been using for testing, it s a 46k absorb and my IP fully capped is 32k
what I'm seeing is that taking a 10k hit, 5k goes to the bandages, 5k to IP
and 0 to my health pool
steel mauve
My fully capped IP is 39k, so its pretty close, and a 2 min cd on a fully capped IP isnt any where near good
sand egret
well its 1.5 for starters
second it compounds
so really its more like a 60k shield
err 69k
this isn't including blocks
mind you
amber siren
Post logs if you're seeing weird interactions
sand egret
it's a tad difficult to test as they don't show up in a log, at least in the default log full absorbs dont appear
steel mauve
Bandages are the better absorb trinket, but its still not good, you're better off with a blockades defensively, or a howler/rezans, unless its like a 380 bandages then the str would beat blockades alone
sand egret
but if the tooltips after a single hit aren't lying
you're missing the point, tbh
I swear you could display full absorbs in the CL
steel mauve
There is no misconception, the tank trinkets are bad, thats the point, only ilvl actually makes them good, especially when you need it to be 380 ilvl to even compete with a 355 stam trinket
cinder nova
Blade
The problem isn't that the proc doesn't last long enough
It's that it doesn't last long enough and doesn't provide meaningful EHP in respect to fight duration.
Unless it's a FAT absorb that can basically goon a lethal mechanic on it's own, the cooldowns that are as long as they are put them at a gross disadvantage in comparison to the EHP allotted by Blockades or just straight up value in damage you can get from a DPS trinket.
Same reason why severer sucks fat dong. 3.5K damage over 12 seconds that procs maybe 6 times over a 5 minute fight
Is garbo
Even if it did double the damage
still garbo
sand egret
ok so I can basically confirm that your HP pool is the last to hit, which does support my theory that shields act as surrogate HP for IP run-off. So actually, the proc lasting long enough is entirely the problem as the true strength in this interaction is being able to maximize the shield over multiple instances
and of course this is a larger question with Disc
lucid kelp
how do I single target as a prot tank? like in situations where I know I wont be tanking anything for a while.....do I rage cap...or do I hard cast Revenge?
sand egret
and potentially making them effectively better with Prot
this is at least fundamentally different than what I was previously told that the shield eats the hit first THEN IP applies to excess which is then halved with your HP pool
random finch
@lucid kelp single target if your not tanking spend rage with revenge just make sure on the swap you have enough rage to pop sb
lucid kelp
ye I've been just popping Revenge only around 90 rage so I have enough when I do need to taunt
just wasnt sure if that was right
random finch
I spend rage like it’s going out of fashion when I swap I make sure I’m close or on enough rage to sb
You wanna spend rage to get CD back no point holding onto rage unless for mit
merry cave
Spend all your rage, taunt and then blame healers tbh
summer basalt
guys for M+ i ll go with 3 brace for impact or 2xbrace and 1xthunder clap?
random finch
Always have thunder clap trait
At least one
I run a damage set sort of with I thunder clap one brace for impact and one iron Fortress
Play around with changing brace for impact to the revenge trait
summer basalt
ty ;3
lucid kelp
I mean as long as I dont cap...Im spending the same amount of rage in the same overall timeframe.
finite quail
About to start on fetid agin this week and I got my first dc trait. Will it be a noticeable difference on him?
amber siren
It'll smooth your damage intake overall
More likely your healers will notice it more than ou
you*
finite quail
Was pretty stoked to get a 385 one lol
median wigeon
Last stand for every combo
broken kite
I thought we'd been through this. Apply frontal to group. Profit.
thorn yarrow
astral crystal
last stand every combo is the most solid advice
also your healers should try to top you before second lash
junior ivy
ok how do i not take so much damage during circles tho
steel mauve
Dont get hit by them?
junior ivy
im not i just take SO MUCH DAMAGE
astral crystal
you might be getting hit by them
if not then your healers need to git gud at healing because iirc some raidwide damage goes out
onyx venture
vial of animated blood with socket or jes howler fellas? same ilvl
raven kernel
The circles do raid wide dmg
If you get chunked big then you got hit tho
Don't get hit
And be careful not to show your back to the boss when moving for circles
astral crystal
you can totally avoid the ring dmg, catfriend
raven kernel
I actually got hit alot of times on first prog night
Was terrible
Position yourself in the middle of the "band"
So you're halfway to either side
If you were waiting on border of inner circle but now outer circle is the safe zone you might not make it if you're slightly slow
Also you have leap for 1 lifeline
If the safe zone is inner circle, you wait on the edge cos you're definitely going outwards next
junior ivy
i wait in the middle but even crossing half a ring hurts so bad
raven kernel
If safe zone is outer circle then also wait on the edge cos you're definitely going inwards
steel mauve
Its scripted, move quick, and move early, you know when its coming, so react to it
steel mauve
There are only 2 routes it takes, depending on the second one on mythic as i think the first one is always the same
astral crystal
i think catfriend might be confused which zones are safe and which arent
walking over the ring doesn't do chunk dmg
only when it pops
raven kernel
Ya
junior ivy
i think i am confused about something, wha tyou hguys say isnt making sense
i know its coming
i prepare
but inevitabl;er i have yto walk over a little bit of it
raven kernel
You don't take dmg walking thru
steel mauve
And the pattern is 100%scripted
junior ivy
so why am i almsot dying
raven kernel
Only when it changes to next ring
steel mauve
Boss hitting you in the back probably
raven kernel
Yeah I mentioned that ^
steel mauve
If the melee dmg avg is more than like 36k-40k chances are you are getting hit in the back or you are messing up your actives
junior ivy
im not even dying, or causing any wipes. its just annoying to have to use last stand
steel mauve
Like on our progression boss's melee was 31k avg
And his surging darkness was 20k avg, thats with out me getting hit by it
So if either of those numbers are higher then you are getting meleed in the back, your actives are falling off or you are standing in the purple rings when they explode
astral crystal
you shouldnt feel annoyed at using last stand
just have it up for every combo
dump rage when you're OTing
junior ivy
k im taking tons of damage even when standing in safe zone
why
WAIT CAULDREN FLASKS ARE BETTER THAN NORMAL FLASKS?
IS THIS TRUE
neat lagoon
hey guys so im like 371 ilvl and ive been getting absolute garbage loot, like massive amounts of crit. wich isnt terrible since i play Arms as well but if i keep getting pieces that are 15+ item levels higher than my haste gear I have no option but to put them on righ? like i just got a 385 H Zek ring and I have a 380 Rot Scour Mother ring. It sucks but its not worth dropping all that stamina and Str for the haste right?
luckily i fished a cheap 355 Rezan's Eye today so that helps
Gomer - Skullcrusher if anyone wants to check my armory and logs and wana get back to me
steel mauve
No cauldron flasks are not better than normal flasks, they are the same
neat lagoon
i mean the parry is not terrible from it
steel mauve
You just need to switch to fury or arms to use the str flask
steel mauve
Because its stamina
raven kernel
Stamina
steel mauve
Stam has always been higher than a main stat like str
raven kernel
How much hp is 357 stam for prot btw
steel mauve
Like 3k
strange drift
Hey guys, i'm new in the warprot community and i would like to replace my main in MM raid with him, but i absolutely don't know what are the best stats / cap stats to have the best survival build posssible 😄
steel mauve
And its almost always better to go with a higher ilvl, even if it drops crit for haste, 100% for armor pieces, rings its preference
The guide has our stats and every thing else
willow sonnet
So am I right in feeling this week's affixes aren't too terrible overall?
raven kernel
Yeah I can tell from what u said
untold blaze
quaking
raven kernel
I mean @willow sonnet
untold blaze
what r u having in na this week?
raven kernel
USFORTIFIED BURSTINGQUAKING INFESTED
EUTYRANNICAL BOLSTERINGEXPLOSIVE INFESTED
untold blaze
ah we got that last week xD
untold blaze
what was ur highest push for last week?
untold blaze
expo helps
raven kernel
Well u can but need special tactics
untold blaze
for victory rush
raven kernel
Constant LOS etc
Yea it gave alot of vr procs
Can one shot orbs with shield slam most, of the time
untold blaze
the easiest instance for tryna expo and bolstring
id say Underroot
i did it last week
+13 on time
was smooth
even the white orb on last boss
u can just use ur throw
for VR
procs
easy
u just hit it 1 time it dies
spam VR if ur healer can dps
untold blaze
even if u touched the white orbs with ur thunder
u'll get the VR
like without targeting it
what is ur raider io score btw?
raven kernel
114X
untold blaze
ive never ever play DPS
(:
in Legion i dont even have the AP weapon for arms and fury xD
raven kernel
Eew
cinder nova
Yeah
cinder nova
It is. I goon it up as 3s prot
LNMB dreamteam
It's funny to watch DPS struggle
While I bootyclap their entire team for 22K a pop
untold blaze
😄
undone pilot
dusky mica
not matrix, it's shit
amber siren
unless it's your only source of the uldir buff i can't remember the name of
reorigination array
sick sentinel
big red button is solid damage on use 1-2 targets though. 😛
carmine ibex
Mythrax trinket seems a bit underwhelming, no? Thoughts on it
don't feel like that proc would be worth much considering the long CD on it
anyone use it and like it?
raven kernel
Would use it if I had one
It's great cover for when we take spikes and drop low
Which is one of the prots issues
sand egret
shields function as a surrogate health pool, so remember that with IP active, that shield value increases
raven kernel
Played properly prot doesn't spike low much at all, so the 2min cd is fine
neat ledge
untold blaze
haste
raven kernel
Haste
carmine ibex
Hmm yeah that's one thing I didn't think of.
If IP is up that value is much better
I spike <40% often enough in M+ though
I guess 2 minutes still isn't bad
i'm going to give it a shot
I do feel like rezan's eye has a big impact though.
raven kernel
What's your other trinket
carmine ibex
it's definitely not a question, i would be replacing rezans eye
i have a 380 howler on the other slot
raven kernel
Yeah ok then
carmine ibex
howler too stronk
steel mauve
The veiled eye is decent at a very high ilvl, but its not great, and other trinkets even close to it beat it out
raven kernel
I want a 385 one badly but we've been extending for ghuun and haven't killed mythrax a 2nd time :(
sick sentinel
Is anyone having troubles with their keys this week?
First time since M+ has started where I'm dying much more often than I ever have
young marlin
sick sentinel
It can't be because we had bursting before and it did not kill me during that week as much as it is this week
I've only done KR +11 so far and I cant beat it on time and ive had a druid/disc/shaman as healers so idk
I am not one to pull large packs either, id rather pull 2 adds over 4 just because id rather not take chances trying to save time
sick sentinel
may push for keys next week then
And here I was hoping to do some +11's for this week thinking itd be easy
limpid leaf
anyone really handy with weak auras for IP and SB?
I'm seeing half cut off debuff squares above the main little square animations that pop up for the weak auras, no idea how to get rid of these other 2 little animations of the same thing.
limpid leaf
thanks mate
rough egret
the 385 might be better for dps
ember arrow
Losing 100 secondary stats wont exactly make you much less survivable
tulip pond
When you get 385 shoulders from the weekly chest but your only DC item is 340 shoulders FeelsBadMan
zinc mauve
ignore the passive, the passive does absolutely terrible damage
its an eh upgrade, the two items are pretty close DPS wise but you're losing some defensive with the versatility being lost
steel mauve
Servent splitter is complete ass, the passive on it is ass, better off using the 380 with stats
unkempt fox
thanks, sticking to secondaries it seems
fringe marten
Vov
Something you might want to keep in mind; but I'm pretty sure it's purely ilevel related.
The highest rated M+ prot warrior in the world uses a 390 servant splitter.
I have a 380 axe from fetid..and would probably use the 390 servant splitter as well.
The combined secondary stats are not 'big' on weapons, but a % of haste or versa is certainly helpful; at 5 ilevels it's a tough call, but I'd generally lean on the higher DPS option.
oh man..now he's the #2 LOL! the #1 uses a 375 club from Tol Dagor.
cinder nova
Agreed
uneven mason
Whelp boys, after 3 weeks of wiping my guild finally got convinced that possibly, they'd rather have a prot tank than make their #1 DPS go blood just because "Method"
I'm back on the roster
uncut juniper
show them what you got mate
uneven mason
That and I stopped being a complete douche about it
Guess it didn't help that every time the tank got chunked I was watching the stream playing the nelson HAHA laugh..
raven kernel
on what boss
limpid leaf
ohh man our raid is haemhorraging pl;ayers, getting tough, we only had 12 show tonight 😦
next sable
Right now I'm playing around with heroic Xalzaiv's and the Vectis Syringe 🤔 Not sure how I feel about either tbh
limpid leaf
went from 22 about 3 weeksa ago to 12
next sable
Parry is cool against on hit effects from mobs though
limpid leaf
I got the disc trinket tonight warforged toi375
next sable
I have that one as well, seems to be okay on lower keys/heroic farm
limpid leaf
but we may not have enough login for raid tomorrow 😦 lost healer and a dps yesterday
next sable
I really wish I could get Rezans gleaming eye 370+ 😢
signal rune
sick sentinel
I an replacing infinite void big time right?
junior citrus
Howdy, MW main leveling my prot warrior alt. I've read the icy veins guide a few times now and wanted to check with you folks and see if the guide is still considered "current." With that established... any tips or tricks yall have picked up over the years that i won't find listed in the more popular guides? Perhaps not exclusive to prot but maybe tanking in general?
sweet kettle
Los the adds to group them
Interrupt the casters for better control of the adds
Don't hesitate in using your abilities
tulip pond
What can be blocked and Spell reflected, there's a sheet in the pins