Azerite should have sockets, that you have JC cut the traits for you?
#protection
uneven mason
chilly brook
Actually give you some real choice
And we’d actually recover the stats that we’ve lost and have more player agency on our itemization
And not get the wrong stat for archive....
chilly brook
Yea I’m drowning in it
frosty wedge
overall the iemization in uldir was shit
like my BrM - there is one weapon in Uldir
and it has the worst secondaries for both tanks that would use it
frosty wedge
oh I know - I ran so many TD/UR 10s
trying to get a weapon
my monk was sitting at ilvl 370
using a 345 weapon
lol
chilly brook
Completely random and off topic but uhhhmmmm I’m slightly surprised I ranked this high in 1v1s after placement matches in For Honor
frosty wedge
nice
brave idol
Anyone able to help me choose between jesses howler and the mythrax tanking trinket? Im torn between the 2 for tanking
chilly brook
Ilvls?
brave idol
Stats>ilvl
frosty wedge
if ilvl is comparable, jes's wins
brave idol
When i use the howler it puts my vers as second highest stats and makes my reor aray also swap to vers
chilly brook
Especially since Jes’ Howler is a strength trinket
That’s not bad
It swaps back to haste when it’s over
brave idol
Yes
chilly brook
Or w/e your highest stat is
And considering vers is your second best stat it’s not a big deal
frosty wedge
in situations where you want more vers that's almost a bigger bonus, lol
frosty wedge
yeah for sure
brave idol
So mass reduction>oh shit trink
chilly brook
Or right before a big hit
If you actually need the oh shit trinket you’ve messed up anyways
brave idol
I figured the samw just wanted to see what other people thought
chilly brook
And probably dead
frosty wedge
also in most situations outside of zul the mythrax trinket is useless b/c tank swaps come after big dmg spikes
uneven mason
TFW I told one of our new tanks that they need to stay in and continue to deathstrike (yeah BDK) for most of the duration of ZUl's blleed only running out at the last second
frosty wedge
mythrax trink is basically only good for offtanking fetid
uneven mason
and the Raid leader rips into me
chilly brook
🤦🏻♂️
brave idol
Im still getting used to the new warrior tanking. I have issuez sometimes. I use ignore lain more and only use shield block at 2 stacks
uneven mason
because he wants him to run it out right away
chilly brook
That’s a big oof
uneven mason
"If he dies he'll drop it in melee"
chilly brook
He won’t die lol
uneven mason
"If he death strikes he won't fucking die"
frosty wedge
ask your RL if he's ever played a DK
chilly brook
When raid leads don’t understand how tanks work
frosty wedge
I'm more sad when tanks don't understand how tanks work
brave idol
Is that how im supposed to use my block and ipain
frosty wedge
I did a H zek pug with a BDK that wasn't using AMS
uneven mason
My last reply was
Warrior.
I take 4 Stacks on HC.
I don't die.
That's how its done.
chilly brook
You should be using Block>IP on any blockable damage with any excess rage being used on IP to smooth damage @brave idol
IP>block on non-blockable damage with block being used for damage in that case
uneven mason
TFW I explained to the BDK that he needed to be using AMS on the 2nd Void lash with a DR external so when he fully absorbs it, it removes the first stack as well.
"AMS does that?" yeah, nubturd, it does
brave idol
How do i decipher blockable and unblockable
frosty wedge
melee of any kind, blockable
chilly brook
Is it an auto? It’s probably able to be blocked unless it’s ranged.
uneven mason
Griff 8.1BOYS
frosty wedge
I know, i just like saying it 😄 lol
chilly brook
We’re still in 8.0.1
frosty wedge
can't wait to block rocks
chilly brook
Will be nice
sand egret
lol
I'll take "Things that most definitely won't happen" for 400, Trebek
imagine that world
chilly brook
We’d be the most broken tank lol
sand egret
we'd be beyond broken haha
uneven mason
"Ignore pain now 100% more effective against non blockable damage"
sand egret
but like not as a 100% absorb, but rather its a 2:1 return
frosty wedge
pallies can block spell dmg?
sand egret
yeah on a CD
uneven mason
so double up on that
IP is strong vs spell damage don't get me wrong
and the off GCD change will be nice
lets see another 6~ RPS
and We'll be groovy
chilly brook
@frosty wedge yes but they also block a helluva lot less than we do
sand egret
if we got more rage per magic damage taken, that'd be super helpful in that scenario
chilly brook
We do have guaranteed block afterall
sand egret
that's a pre-plan
i'm talking about sustained magic which lasts more than 1-2 casts of IP
tjat
that's the scenario i'm more getting at
chilly brook
Hate that guy
sand egret
or as I like to call it "let's see how low my dps can get him before my SW expires"
I'm not part of his fan club
vagrant cape
I literally cannot live through him on fort weeks without lust. And even then I died right as he did. And I popped all the things
chilly brook
Does anyone?
sand egret
It's rough =/
vagrant cape
Grievous fort was just awful
sand egret
I feel like Prot Pally with spell warding can hang pretty well
vagrant cape
Popping last stand and rally cry just make me harder to remove grievous from
chilly brook
Spell warding is literally just a “lawl I win” button
sand egret
it's Cloak for Tanks
vagrant cape
Not against necrotic in 8.1 though :D
All the tanks will have to actually deal with it like us proelatariatanks
frosty wedge
that'd be nice, lol
sand egret
in before: necrotic is bugged and its actualyl a ranged attack codewise
and we can block that shit
chilly brook
Lol
vagrant cape
At least armor will reduce it
sand egret
all of Prot Warriors
chilly brook
vagrant cape
Armor reduces physical dots, doesn't it?
sand egret
armor doesn't usually reduce bleeds
vagrant cape
Welp. That's another thing my mythic raiding main tank prot warrior got wrong.
sand egret
like Rupture and Rake etc ignore armor
vagrant cape
He just started playing prot this expac and I feel like I'm so much better than him at playing prot warrior
chilly brook
Or have you not had it with the officers?
vagrant cape
He was doing a bad rotation because of threat issues. Which apparently isn't an issue for our rl (who is the other tank). So we're progging mythic fetid right now. Warrior main tanks, DK takes thrashes
And he's still mucking up the rotation a bit
Even though he doesn't tank swao
Thankfully devastate is no longer his #1 ability used
earnest zinc
Prot is a pain in the ass this patch. The only reason to play it over DK or Monk is because you enjoy it
chilly brook
Wait the blood DK has threat problems?
earnest zinc
It's a lot more hassle for the same results
chilly brook
I wouldn’t call it a pita but I also like the fact that it’s not completely brain dead
earnest zinc
I have to bust my ass to get the same results I get half assing on my monk
chilly brook
There’s a barrier to entry
vagrant cape
The blood DK loses threat if the prot warrior goes all out
solemn storm
lol devastate as #1 ability
vagrant cape
Yeah
solemn storm
I don't know the reason, but I rip threat off other tanks all the time in heroic uldir at the start of a pull
chilly brook
Who cares if you get the same results for half-assing it on your monk (which I doubt because I still do better than most monks), if it’s not enjoyable and your decisions don’t matter why even bother?
solemn storm
Probably cause of avatar
earnest zinc
As long as the warrior doesn't hit avatar off the bat, the DK shouldn't lose threat
Assuming equal gear
chilly brook
@solemn storm prolly avatar, I burst over 16k on a boss
solemn storm
Yeah
chilly brook
At the beginning with a pot
vagrant cape
And the prot warrior and I had a talk. I asked why he shield slams on pull and doesn't avatar. And he said he needed it to get rage for SB. And I said. "Avatar plus charge grants 35 rage, dude."
And he said he didn't know that avatar granted rage
earnest zinc
Also the DK should use taunt in the rotation if it's a problem
solemn storm
exactly
frosty wedge
man
solemn storm
Guess I should take my foot off the gas
vagrant cape
So now he avatars on pull
chilly brook
Wadu hek dude @vagrant cape
vagrant cape
Before he was using it 20s into the fight
frosty wedge
I feel like reading teh tooltip for eachof your abilities
is NOT too much to fucking ask of people
earnest zinc
The only tank that should have aggro problems is druid
vagrant cape
I want to tank for my guild so fucking badly
chilly brook
I mean what’d your officers say about it @vagrant cape
sand egret
@frosty wedge people not reading tooltips.....don't get me started on that one haha
solemn storm
The only boss I seem to struggle with is Zul. I just get absolutely wrecked with the bleed dot in the final phase.
earnest zinc
You might be able to replace him if you prove you are better and he isn't the GM's buddy
vagrant cape
Well he is so
chilly brook
Staying in melee and pumping rage into IP helps until it’s about to expire @solemn storm
Big oof
solemn storm
I'm worried that if I don't survive, I just drop the blood pool in the middle of the raid
chilly brook
Finding a new guild lawl
earnest zinc
Prot Warrior isn't exactly accepted most of the time
sand egret
also.... @vagrant cape it gives 20 Rage, not 35 im pretty sure 😄
chilly brook
Especially if you want to tank this late into the tier
solemn storm
charge should give 15, avatar 20, I think that's where he got the 35
oblique garnet
getting into solid guild as a tank regardless of your class is usually harder
sand egret
yeah I figured, but doesn't mean I cant bust his chops 😃
solemn storm
lol
earnest zinc
I haven't had that hard of a time
solemn storm
It doesn't 😃
chilly brook
Your best bet would be right before a new tier
earnest zinc
Though I am brew
chilly brook
Considering people are dropping whatever they have to get a brew.....
sand egret
oh man, I fucking shattered some groups preconceptions of Prot last night. Felt so good.
chilly brook
Because they’re broken as fuck
uneven mason
Broken = braindead
chilly brook
“Just press buttons and you won’t die”
ember arrow
No need
uneven mason
"Or don't press buttons and you still won't die"
chilly brook
“Doesn’t even matter what buttons”
uneven mason
Spam tiger palm
earnest zinc
You can die on Zul in phase 2 though
chilly brook
Zen med that shit
chilly brook
Lol
sand egret
was kinda afk and queued up for some keys and one of which was a +9 or something. like 10 minutes go by and turns out I got an invite. Join the group and queue the qualifying questions. "You good with this?" "We're ok with not pushing, just take it slow and we'll be fine".....flashforward to getting their fastest time on a KR this season. The comments post-run were gold
chilly brook
They’re meta because you can fall asleep and your passive “mitigation” does the work for you
uneven mason
Yup
earnest zinc
As long as you don't suck at brew, you are a great tank
sand egret
literally pulled the whole embalming room. Was just like "ya'll just chill in the hallway". Avatar + TClap spam is just 👌
oblique garnet
How to suck as brew 101 Dont keep your abilities in the bar but just click them from spellbook
chilly brook
You can suck at brew and still be not even noticeably different than a good brew what do you mean?
earnest zinc
Prot you have to master it to get the same results of a brew that's just decent and doesn't excel
chilly brook
There’s almost no difference between a good brew and a bad one
sand egret
healer still does the same shit
frosty wedge
nothing, shit just dies faster
sand egret
^
chilly brook
I actually liked BrM when it wasn’t a snooze and you actually used things like Blackout Combo and ISB actually meant something
sand egret
well, for a group that was initially hesitant at all, it's quite the surprise to save a bunch of time
eager phoenix
How much ilvl is a socket worth? Im having a hard time weighing 370 belt with haste + socket vs a 385 belt without haste or socket or 370 gloves with haste + socket vs 380 gloves without haste or a socket.
earnest zinc
I mean like really bad as in failing to keep even close to full ISB uptime and horribly timing prufying brews
limber wigeon
Aren't there 3 infested mobs in that group this week? I think it's faster to pull as 2 groups this week.
chilly brook
@earnest zinc have you even seen the fetid log?
sand egret
no infested in a +9
sand egret
that's why I told em to go into the hallway
limber wigeon
I didn't read+9 my b
frosty wedge
KR was a nightmare this week
sand egret
but yeah I was playing wack-a-mole
other than that it was really smooth. The first boss if you don't have a druid suuuucks
frosty wedge
anyone else stoked to watch the MDI this weekend?
sand egret
if you do its easssy
chilly brook
@earnest zinc
frosty wedge
Yeah garun - read that, lol
sand egret
I'm excited, it's where I get to look at the sick pathing they come up with
sand egret
I hope some teams try some more quirky strats
earnest zinc
LOL
chilly brook
I’m convinced you literally can’t fail as a brewmaster
oblique garnet
Who doesnt like alt tabbing in boss fights
earnest zinc
I'm surprised they aren't massively nerfing stagger
chilly brook
Hey at least holinka is back he can’t be nearly as bad as whoever was in charge of this “balancing”
earnest zinc
This is almost as bad as prenerf IP in EN where you could ignore the Spear of Nightmares mechanic with 2 prot warriors.
chilly brook
I’m not kidding when I tell people BrM is literally broken
earnest zinc
Or Guardian solo tanking Guarm on mythic when they took double damage for solo tanking
chilly brook
Except warrior got slapped with the nerfbat real quick
ember arrow
@chilly brook i think we got that after you mentioned it the 564th time
earnest zinc
They hate warrior
ember arrow
earnest zinc
It's obvious with double standards
chilly brook
@ember arrow just like how we got blood is better in m+ when you mentioned it the 997th Time
ember arrow
Oh i dont do that though
earnest zinc
Warrior got the bat before mythic release
chilly brook
This is the real reason why BrM was so prevalent in the world first race, because when you raid for 13 hours a day it pays to be able to drift off and still be effective
earnest zinc
Guardian got off EASY in ToV solo tanking Guarm on mythic with only a hotfix that extended the range of the secondary hit instead of a nerf
chilly brook
@ember arrow but you do, you’re always in here defending Blood or pointing to why prot is bad
earnest zinc
They did eventually get a nerf in NH though
ember arrow
Im not bashing prot
And you guys' ideas to balance bdk is basically to amputate its arms and legs
chilly brook
Imo DK was best when frost was the “tank spec”
But I don’t have a stake in the race so to speak
sick sentinel
If I cared more, I'd kick my guilds BrM MT out cus hes literal slug as tank and shit parses. But I'm also top DPS as arms for the raid, and purposely an auxiliary role, CBA to mix RL time vs Raid Progression time
🤷
chilly brook
Blood could either do with some neutering or the other tanks need something added
It’s that simple
frosty wedge
MDI is goign to be funny when every comp is a BE blood DK
chilly brook
When hasn’t it been that?
chilly brook
First mdi there was one comp with a BrM
final mist
People will probably still use DHs and shit this time around too.
chilly brook
After that? All DKs
frosty wedge
it's particularly bad right now
final mist
There were other classes than just DK at the other MDIs.
modern brook
Dks got more utility with dungeons having relevant undead to mc.
final mist
There were teams in China and the Oceanic regions that made it fairly far with DHs and Paladins, IIRC.
MCing Undead is not why DKs are OP for dungeons.
chilly brook
@final mist realistically I only see one DH probably making it
modern brook
I never said they were
frosty wedge
It's just another reason to bring one though
modern brook
I said they got more utility. they're op because of literally the rest of their kit
now they get +1
frosty wedge
and also the DPS boost in KR from MCing a beastmaster is not insiginficant
final mist
There were dungeons in Legion where you could MC mobs too, it's not like it's a new thing.
Mass Grip and Bonestorm are the sole reasons for them to be as prevalent as they are.
plain ice
i got denied from a +9 TD yesterday when my IO is above 1k. they then changed the title to "NO PROTS" 😂 😂 😂
modern brook
Legion mobs were not like Kings rest
solemn storm
lol
modern brook
yikes
final mist
The DPS boost from having a Arcane Mage and Magister MC'd in BRH was massive
Even having a cat MC'd was significant
chilly brook
Not to mention they really really did a number on that tier
modern brook
Yeah
But now we're taking MC
and puttingit on the 1 tank that has brez grip, decent aoe, and self healing
final mist
They already had the MC.
modern brook
but now its relevent
solemn storm
So basically run dungeons with 5 DKs is what you are saying?
final mist
It was relevant before.
It was never not relevant in Legion - there were multiple dungeons where you could MC adds to avoid shit or get extra DPS.
modern brook
besides BRH which dungeons had undead that fit that desc*
chilly brook
@solemn storm it’s possible and already done
final mist
Karazhan.
solemn storm
Figures...
chilly brook
5 blood DK is completely doable
final mist
And you're ignoring my point, in which is that the MC is not the reason the BDKs are so prevalent.
earnest zinc
They aren't giving Blood a real nerf so reroll if you want to push high keys
modern brook
and you're ignoring mine
I never once said MC was the reason bdks are prevalent or even good: just that more dungeons got more useful undead to mc which in turn gives dks even more utility
earnest zinc
Overtuned self heals and the most overpowered tank utility in the game (Gorefiend's Grasp) are the reason
zinc creek
Who started this yikes meme. Is it slootbag from MDI?
chilly brook
Why would someone who plays the class nerf his own class?
someones gotta be king amirite?
signal rune
np warrior is king again with IP off GCD dont worry
ow you dont have a Kappa emoticon here
nvm
chilly brook
‘Member when tanks were supposed to be similar in terms of mitigation to make sure this wasn’t a problem? Pepperidge farm remembers
signal rune
Imma VDH rerolling Prot. AMA.
chilly brook
Here we are though with two blatantly ahead of the pack tanks tho
raven kernel
i remember when every MT was a warrior
chilly brook
@signal rune did you get tired of feeling like wet paper?
raven kernel
_>
modern brook
welcome to the dry paper class kad
chilly brook
Nah I’m a crusader
raven kernel
alot of ppl think im bonkers when ive said (multiple times) that prot > vdh
chilly brook
But nah I have a vengeance DH at 120 and I felt like a tissue paper in a hurricane
solemn storm
I've been protection warrior since vanilla. We've had our ups and downs along the way
signal rune
VDH got hit hard its not even funny.
raven kernel
pathetic uptime on demon spikes
and if you ever look at your armor without demon spikes
its horrifying
signal rune
Could easily solo +15 tyrannical bosses pre pre-patch, pre-patch hits could barely solo HC dungeons.
I mean the nerf was coming but this was insane.
Neutered ST self healing and lowered the already low uptime on AM.
I also think that a lot these dungeons are designed to favor tanks who can facetank.
So why not grab my sword and my shield again 
😩
frosty wedge
yeah, close quarters fighting, tiny fking hallways
all but 1 of my tanks is tauren
I hate every dungeon
modern brook
gross
frosty wedge
yeah, my DK I rolled like a couple weeks back - made him BE because why not add one more utility that's super useful in M+, lol
modern brook
I roll orc whenever i can
chilly brook
I might swap from panda to BE
modern brook
being green is its own utility
frosty wedge
dude, BE makes shit like tol dagor's bubbles a joke, also the fearing assholes in KR
signal rune
just use shield slam to dispel them ow wait
chilly brook
“Hey guys Blood Elf racials are too good we’re gonna have to come up with something less impactful”
BE Racial guy: “Hold on I gotta go to the bathroom real quick”
runs to dungeon designer’s office
“Hey uhhh what are you putting a lot of into the dungeons”
Dungeon guy: “we put in a lot of dispelable debuffs to encourage bringing classes with a dispel”
BE guy: “thanks dude!”
runs back to office
“Hey I got it instead of a silence we’ll make it purge a buff but like aoe!”
I also imagine a similar conversation taking place for the blood DK design lead
frosty wedge
lol
ember arrow
damn i gotta find my tinfoil hat
signal rune
"DK's were strong in MDI, what should we do with them?"
"Nothing. On second thought, nerf all the other tanks into the fucking ground so deep they come out in New Zealand."
chilly brook
Have a laugh my dude
sick sentinel
ive been warrior since vanilla and I just smh @here
signal rune
Whats you raider score, champ.
sick sentinel
not high enough. 4/8 mythic.
signal rune
There we are.
sick sentinel
The class feels fine to me. I'm just stick with RP server DPS.
chilly brook
Oof
signal rune
im not a regular here so i shouldnt be having a big mouth but ppl with nothing to back it up coming into class servers bragging trigger me
sorry
sick sentinel
wasn't bragging?
modern brook
i musta missed when he did any of that
ember arrow
how?
sick sentinel
🤔
odd ridge
Guys we can't fight here, this is the war room!
ember arrow
you dont have to be 8.8 mythic to see if a class is badly designed or see problems
sick sentinel
why should you react sensitively to something that doesn't concern you at all?
smh
signal rune
You are shaking your head at ppl having concerns at the class and saying they are fine
ember arrow
who was bragging anyway
sick sentinel
whose bragging
chilly brook
Here actually
signal rune
NOBODY I I USED THE WORD WRONG
sick sentinel
s'what imsaying
chilly brook
unzips pants
sick sentinel
👍
sick sentinel
savage
chilly brook
Oof
urban walrus
Tbf, the smh comment was totally non-contributary
sick sentinel
neither was the reaction/complaint of the smh.
ember arrow
does it need to be?
chilly brook
You right tho
ember arrow
i dont recall rules stating that every comment must have a certain contributing %
sick sentinel
neither is this backwards whining surrounding bragging/not bragging
chilly brook
Devastate should be my #1 for that 100% uptime yea?
modern brook
what a true prot looks like
urban walrus
Yeah I get it, like two people misunderstanding each other, I guess people need to understand when a comment is not serious?
sick sentinel
GAMER
signal rune
dem paint.exe skills tho
modern brook
:woosh:
chilly brook
I was
sick sentinel
chilly brook
That’s the point
frosty wedge
😄
chilly brook
They’re memeing the deep wounds lol
frosty wedge
lol
sick sentinel
haha deep wounds HAHA
signal rune
😕
urban walrus
:woosh:?
chilly brook
Excuse me while I ignore the pain
sick sentinel
chilly brook
👢 🍵 👏
chilly brook
Unrelated but lawl
sand egret
ohhh damn, did I miss the shame pic of Griffs appalling 97% uptime on DW?
chilly brook
Yea hit me with the bell and shame
sand egret
I gotta write up a post called "The Deep Wounds Log" and post it up. "It appears that there is no real difference between abysmal Prot play (97% uptime on Deep Wounds and 100% uptime) and a good Prot player".
chilly brook
Lol
sand egret
just watch the REEEEEEE in the posts
chilly brook
That’s Elon Musk level of shit post
sand egret
"I CAME TO COMPLAIN WHAT IS THISSSSSS?!"
sick sentinel
haha
sand egret
I gotta fucking fill like 5 paragraphs of mathing out various Deep Wounds performances and shit
chilly brook
It seems like my average uptime is like 60%
sand egret
throw in graphs on graphs
sand egret
just a massive set up to the one- sentence conclusion:
- Deep Wounds needs a 5% buff.
chilly brook
Because DC is getting nerfed
😢
At least I’ll have the picture memory of 74% uptime
sand egret
No king rules forever.
chilly brook
Unfortunately true
modern brook
DC = Da Cing
chilly brook
Should I make a sword and board warrior in Skyrim?
modern brook
how many mods does your skyrim have
chilly brook
None because
chilly brook
That being said I’m pretty sure my pc version has like 150
modern brook
then yes
chilly brook
I disagree it’s a great game that has its replayability skyrocket because of mods and the ability to tune it how you’d like it
But hey that’s just me
The only thing I want in the next one is oblivion’s magic system
modern brook
Skyrims quality has an indirect relationship with how deep you look into it
chilly brook
It was a cool idea to have magic take up a hand but it killed spellswording or paladining for me
I don’t expect super deep systems from Skyrim
chilly brook
That’s what Pillars of Eternity or Divinity Original Sin 2 is for
sand egret
aka The Bethesda Effect
modern brook
you realize the games just max black smithing and enchanting and do doofy shit
frosty wedge
lol
sand egret
this is why those games are great ^
modern brook
i will say that in vanilla skyrim, i think s+b is probably the most fun playstyle
uneven mason
"I'm going to try a magic user this time" - Nope, Stealth archer again
chilly brook
Magic was bad on Skyrim
uneven mason
ALthough yeah my firsnt playthrough I was a Sword&Board
chilly brook
It didn’t scale well at all
uneven mason
Critical decapitating a dragon with a shield +++
chilly brook
And TBF I think that the magic system in Skyrim was worse than in oblivion
Spells taking up a hand was kinda meh
uneven mason
Morrowind had the amazing magic system
they didn't want to do that again
"lets leap over the continent"
chilly brook
I was very much a fan of being able to have a two handed weapon in oblivion and hitting my cast key and healing
Without having to fiddle with menus
uneven mason
But yeah, Bethesda games in general, are pretty much unplayable at release
it takes the modders to fix them
chilly brook
You know what’s funny though?
uneven mason
We keep buying them?
uneven mason
Creation Club 🤢 What i wouldn't give to get rid of that pile of garbage
chilly brook
You’d think they’d throw it on everything they could
uneven mason
Nintedo probably wouldn't let thme
Nintendo has a thing with 3rd party markets on their consoles
So yeah, Creation Club hit Fallout 4
and broke 90% of my mods
I've had to completely desync it from Steam
to play the game
modern brook
fo4 is just bad tho
chilly brook
Because of that god forsaken paid mod system
fo4 is the first Bethesda game where I felt mods were required
I liked a lot of what fo4 had to offer in terms of gameplay and gameplay systems
But it lost a lot
Not a great story
Not enough player choice
Too many radiant quests
It felt very soulless in the story
Guns were fantastic and moment to moment combat was great
Perk trees needed some help
modern brook
I will give you that fo4 is the best CoD simulator fallout has been able to produce
gunplay in it is really good
but like you said the rest of the game is buns
chilly brook
If they ripped the moment to moment gameplay of FO4 and spent most of their time on actually presenting a good story and choices and perk tree etc. to the next fallout that’s a winning game
uneven mason
I play Fo4 for the same reason why I like playing L4D, after beating the game 4 or 5 times, I just load up survival mode, walk out into the glow and see how long I can go.
modern brook
Also real talk: the voice acting sucks shit
like it completely ruins the immersion for me
uneven mason
it really does
chilly brook
But they did nail it with far harbor
modern brook
I havent done the dlc i have it for ps4
uneven mason
But I liked their homage to Legend of Zelda Ocarina of time
neon tangle
I'm surprised that the nerfs to BDK and BrM were so... small
uneven mason
"Hey listen" = "Another Settlement needs your help"
chilly brook
Presented you with good player choice
uneven mason
but yeah its bad when I have to "create" artifical challenges to make the game interesting
chilly brook
Felt much more like a real rpg
uneven mason
like "SIngle shot rifle no vats" playthrough
chilly brook
Just download mods for it that adjust the game
chilly brook
For me I play stealthy so I made it where headshots instagib
Both ways
In some ways it makes it easier
In others? Not at all
uneven mason
I play game for challenge #protection
modern brook
I've been enjoying the "new" survival difficulty
chilly brook
Survival felt too tedious to me
modern brook
but its sort of the thing thats like only a thing for the first ~8 or so levels
saving at sleep points just makes you play super safe
which is fun when you're not sneak sniping
uneven mason
Like I said, I play survival, no power armor, single shot rifle, no vats. The secret is, don't do the "first" mission until you've got some levels because that deathclaw is something nasty
real challenge (if I ever get back to it) will be survival h2h
or high int/cha character
sick sentinel
How’s prot looking in 8.1?
frosty wedge
more solid than now, still wholly missing uility
clever bronze
What's the math for the per-point damage mitigation value of armor?
Like I want to know how much mitigation my old Legion trinket (Feverish Carapace) is actually providing.
I realize that I'm still leveling, and so I should just stick with item levels and shit, but I'm still curious to know.
clever bronze
So then do I have no recourse for knowing how much mitigation 144 armor is worth?
uneven mason
look at the tooltip
in your character window
then click the trinket
and look again
clever bronze
It's a buff effect, so I'd have to find some mobs to see the effect
fierce juniper
@clever bronze the DR provided by armor has diminishing returns
But yeah you can see the DR in your character pane
clever bronze
Alright, well if that's my only option, then I appreciate it. Thanks, guys.
uneven mason
I mean, the general rule of thumb is, more armor is always good
but yeah weighing trinkets is where it matters
clever bronze
It looks like at my current amount of armor and at my current player level (113), it gives me 2-3% DR
uneven mason
While leveling though, I wouldn't sweat it
clever bronze
Exactly. I just wanted to know as a curiosity.
I know that in this situation, just pick item level for your trinkets, but it may be useful later on
uneven mason
Yeah, in push content at max level you start to watch stats and balance (Although ilvl will generally be king still)
lavish field
hey all anyone here with good azerit power weights stirng for an deff prot warrior?
uneven mason
No weights really
1 Deafening crash (at any cost more or less) IF/BFI are next up, but are not > 1 tier
we have rankings
in Icy veins
@fierce juniper If I'm reading your pin correctly, if it remains as is (the DC nerf) it should be more or less considred in the same line as BFI/IF and ilvl will once again be king on Azerite pices?
zinc mauve
the DC nerf still increases the skill's uptime significantly
it only really affects the uptime during avatar
which is where it was stupid strong in the first place
it goes from like 25% uptime to 42-46% uptime
thats post nerf
uneven mason
correct, but we're still looking at about a 30% reduction in uptime (40-50 being normal not 60 - 75)
25% uptime is standard without
DC
zinc mauve
correct
i was saying without the trait vs with post-nerf trait
i should have said that
bfi is also a very strong trait, although im not sure how it lines up against dc
since dc increases damage and reduces damage taken in tandem
uneven mason
so I guess what that brings the spread average of DS damage reduction more inline what, 5.5% rather than 8% (I think)
zinc mauve
PLUS it also reduces magic damage as well
zinc mauve
true
uneven mason
and with IP freeing up more GCDs to reset SS
we might see BFI gain
as well as something like Bloodspot
zinc mauve
but blockable damage isn't our issue usually, its the magic which is unblockable which is our biggest problem
uneven mason
was just thinking, overall, we'll be "unchained" from requiring DC
zinc mauve
there's also ranged attacks but we can block those post patch so we dont have tow orry about that
uneven mason
I never had problems with Throw stone/Shoot as far as damages go
I have an issue because the asshole NPC stands in sanguine
and Enrages me IRL
zinc mauve
there's only a few packs where its a serious issue
the pack in tol dagor just before the worgen boss stands out since it has mostly casters and a few 'throw rock' mobs
the beastmaster mob in kings rest does a stupid amount of damage as well
ember arrow
beastmaster does alot of dmg
uneven mason
KR on Fortified in general is 🤢
zinc mauve
oh and there is also Shadow of Zul
uneven mason
Hence why I dislike KR
zinc mauve
but i havent figured out if hes ranged or unreflectable spells
uneven mason
cause Zul is basically "I might as well be a DPS"
zinc mauve
if hes ranged, then this is a huge buff
zinc mauve
thanks obama
uneven mason
hence why warriors get chunked
zinc mauve
even spamming ip until the cows come home doesnt save me
have to use blood lust to kill that guy on fortified
sand egret
imho the block the rock change is more so important going forward than necessarily for current content.
but yeah Shadow of Zul can go die in a fire
@uneven mason one the builds i want to run in 8.1 is having stacked Bloodsport tbh. With the extra traits and my current block being > 42.5% baseline, I really want to try just getting a stacked IP + the Leech.
chilly brook
42.5% chance or reduction?
uneven mason
reduction
sand egret
reduction
uneven mason
which is our "softcap"
chilly brook
Cuz that reduction drops significantly against a boss
chilly brook
~10%
uneven mason
yeah the k value is quite a bit higher against bosses
sand egret
yeah, im looking at it as hitting 85% during SB
uneven mason
So Griff
uneven mason
now that you can't hit 75% uptime
I mean in 8.1
What will you do with all of your open GCDs
chilly brook
I’m respecing to Devastator
sand egret
but yeah, what I was getting at was what other traits I want to try out. Specfically around Bloodsport
uneven mason
but feel less satisfied?
chilly brook
Stack IF go full passive
chilly brook
I’ll sit on the toilet post nerf once a day and just remember the good times
And think about what could have been if we had the preferencial treatment of blood and brew
sand egret
although, im not 100% if the new outer ring gives us 2 spec choices and we can pick one or we get to pick 2.
uneven mason
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FGWZhtr71zL6mND2#fight=last&type=healing stack Bloodsport, AV, IV go outheal some paladins?
chilly brook
Oh and at least once a day thank papa Ion for making sure there is at least one tank spec that isn’t brain dead
uneven mason
I'll send him a christmas card
sand egret
~ how much does Bloodsport add to IP on a 370 piece?
uneven mason
Of my alt shaman crying
uneven mason
I can't remember
sand egret
hmm so if my napkin math based off of my chars IPs, thats around 20% increase with a 3x stack
🤔
uneven mason
I tell ya tho, Impassive Visage, for a 3rd ring trait
that sucker carrys its weight
more than AV in general
sand egret
totally agree, i swapped around some stuff and Im pretty happy with it
wise mirage
mythic + talents? 1123211?
sand egret
say what you will about the system as a whole, when I have the pieces to mess with, I do like tinkering with these traits
check the pins but yeah?
prisma obsidian
Yea having an assortment of pieces to play with makes things much more fun.
sand egret
tbh I cant remember the last time I changed my talents as prot
prisma obsidian
I swap to storm bolt when my dps are lazy with stuns
sand egret
bolster/Unstoppable Force/Anger Management/Into the Fray
the rest is you. I vastly prefer Storm Bolt over Rumbling Earth
supple path
Yeah, stride vs tclap radius, and storm bolt vs rumbling are the only real choices.
prisma obsidian
And I usually take the intimidating shout talent when I have double DH in the grp, which is a lot
sand egret
yeah, thats the issue with RE. Stun diminishing returns happen too fast
at least SB can give you a different button to interupt, even if its heavily DR’d
prisma obsidian
I mean it’s ok to lose the talent when u have stun DRs with 2 DH, things jus let die instantly
sand egret
I may start taking Menace in 8.1 tho
esp with that new IS talent being potentially really nice in big pulls. Im excited to mess with it
prisma obsidian
Does the talent increase target # of IS? I thought it only added duration and made them stand in place
sand egret
it doesnr
at least im pretty sure
but even with the cap, it’s a nice way to set up a particularly scary pull
prisma obsidian
Yea I think target cap is 5, so your looking at ~40k DR every 2 mins
sand egret
if you only have one stack of the trait tho
prisma obsidian
Tru
sand egret
thats how Im looking at it, stacked 2x
prisma obsidian
Hmm, quick question, if your block reduction is at 42.5%. Do you think it’s better to use bloodspot instead of IV. I’m kinda skeptical
supple path
Isn't bloodsport a different ring than IV?
sand egret
hmmm they dont compete?
at least, Im thinking of the increase to IP + Leech spec-specific talent
unless you meant IF
but my line of thinking was: I am above the “soft cap” for blocking (so Im only getting returns on non-crit blocks vs trash, I also only M+ fyi) so I want to try and flex IP’s buffer via Bloodsport since that is the one major recourse to unblockables, my major weakness.
sand egret
you can block up to 85% reduction
tropic star
where crit block doesnt reduce any more
neon tangle
@tropic star crit blocks are capped at 85% DR
sand egret
yeah that
neon tangle
@sand egret I'm certainly going to mess around with vengeance next patch
sand egret
id rather invest in getting my IP thresholds high
neon tangle
it + callous reprisal + bloodsport might be interesting for m+
sand egret
cuz like a higher buffer means you dont get as much overflow on big magic hits
as one of my biggest issues with IP is that it gets blown through super fast
uneven mason
in raids especially yeah
I think IP could be about oh...
43% bigger
yeah lets go with 43%
on cast I mean
possibly 60% absorb
but 43% per cast larger
which would be the AP coefficient being boosted to 5
neon tangle
One thing that seems pretty nice about pally tanks is that their secondary-AM/heal/whatever is on a kinda long CD
vs. being more spammy
uneven mason
Yeah, they match our HPS though
with IP being spammy
because I'll use this word - Their heal is more impactful
long CD - means more when they do it
sick sentinel
ehh
uneven mason
I suppose a lot of that is their passive healing
median wigeon
Anyone tank shrine this week and if so how is it ?
sand egret
it wasn't bad for me
biggest annoyances are the two minibosses
since they come with a small army
uneven mason
Its not bad
last boss is a bit drawn out
IIRC they fixed the issue with the orbs on the 2nd to last boss spawning explosives
although I didn't mind that as a prot war, since, VR for days
sand egret
just got to pull a few packs carefully so not to bolster the one elite in a sea of normal mobs
iron charm
How much do secondary stats matter vs weapon ilvl? I have a 365 crit/haste weapon and a 370 vers/crit weapon. Do I go with the higher ilvl?
iron charm
Sorry, couldn't find the answer quickly in the guide, and thanks.
Oh nvm, see it now.
sand egret
shine + bursting. oof this week
vagrant cape
You mean explosive?
sand egret
this upcoming week
sorry
as someone who primarily PuGs...bursting is my least favorite
plain ice
@sand egret what key level did you do shrine on this week?
uneven mason
Bursting, Dark Iron Racial OMNOMNOMNOM
solid mist
man, the caster/melee boss fight is always a shit show with pugs
it's either, no one interrupts, or all blow them at the same time even if you tell them "interupt in this order: ..."
frosty wedge
I just always hold my interrupt until the last pssible moment
and have a macro that says "someone needs to get the next interrupt
lol
I was so pissed though i did that fght with 2 DHs in my group last week
and neither of them was interrupting
like... YOU GET FURY FOR INTERRUPTING
they incentivized you knowing you need to interrupt
and you still can't do your job properlyl
uneven mason
Puglife
Know what I find funny, back when I was DPSing and we got a DPS buff for interrupting
every other motherfucker would trip overthemselves to beat me to it
solid mist
haha
supple path
Back in the day you had to interrupt uphill, at a rage or energy cost, on the global. Goddamn kids.
sand egret
ohh fuck yesssssss
sand egret
@plain ice I didn't push it but I got a +9 with two chests
solid mist
my new fav thing is to turn of dps meters, and turn on the interupt meter
and just spam that throughout the M+
frosty wedge
dark iron clears fking everything
solid mist
just shaming them
uneven mason
so does the normal Dwarven racial
sand egret
fuck yeah
uneven mason
but Dark Iron makes you hit like a truck after
frosty wedge
griveous, etc
sand egret
oh and it gives you monster IPs
uneven mason
I was fury in an AV this week
an 2 afflocks
tried to dogpile me
and I hit that Fireblood
sand egret
it's pretty insane if you get the right buff stacks
didn't think about Bursting but I'm 100% ok with just having to watch idiot dps die.
uneven mason
well
I told my folks
and I think some of them are gonna swap to Dark Iron
just cause
sand egret
"Pull less tank!"
"Naw, I got Fireblood off CD"
frosty wedge
lol
sand egret
"Buuut"
frosty wedge
I had a rogue complain I was pulling too fast last week b/c he was sub and wasn't invising fast enough after pulls
uneven mason
gonna try to get a full dark Iron group together do some bid dick pulls
frosty wedge
when I was definitely letting combat drop
solid mist
@frosty wedge :chefskiss:
sand egret
oh man i'd love to see some serious Dark Iron representation in the MID
uneven mason
15stack Busrting OMNOMNOM MOAR
sand egret
MDI*
frosty wedge
lol
uneven mason
3000int is a lot of healing
frosty wedge
I took Friday off work so I can chill and watch blizzcon things, lol
sand egret
50% increased main stat is a lot....period
supple path
I mean that dark iron racial obviously needs to be nerfed immediately and only isn't because of the shinynewsyndrome.
sand egret
(realistically less but it's still really insane)
uneven mason
I mean, normal dwarf racial does the same thing
supple path
Like how DKs were blatantly overpowered for a few patches when they were first introduced but can't nerf the shinynewthing yet.
uneven mason
but makes you not die better
sand egret
that and it's like the one thing Alliance has to offer haha
uneven mason
Also Dark Iron Dwarf - You thought Void elves were the BLood elves of the alliance.
sand egret
yeah VE's are just BE's to me
frosty wedge
😄
sand egret
can't they like, Blink?
supple path
Didn't void elves have some overpowered in PvP bs?
uneven mason
their storyline reads like a Mnightshamanlandingdong movie
*had
they nerfed the line of effect on it
you can't Zaxis jump anymore
like, grabbing the flag in WSG and teleporting back up top
sand egret
well they don't have a strong beard game so tbh I didn't expect much
supple path
I honestly read all those racials as attempts to make people roll alliance for cleanly overpowered racials.
sand egret
well, Dwarf has been the same since like Vanilla
supple path
There's a big difference between dwarf, and dwarf +40% damage boost
uneven mason
Dark Iron racial is strong in what 2 affixes? Blood elves are strong in uh, Mythic raiding?
supple path
You mean zul and a pull in kings' rest?
frosty wedge
tehse seem insane for racials??
sand egret
well, 10% reduction is pretty sweet, but yeah if you time it right it's extreme
frosty wedge
Entropic Embrace: Your abilities have a chance to empower you with the essence of the Void. Entropic Embrace increases damage and healing by 5% for 12 sec. It has a 33% proc chance with 60 seconds internal cooldown.
Ethereal Connection: Reduces the cost of Void Storage and Transmogrification by 50%
Preternatural Calm: Your spell casts are not delayed by taking damage.
VE^^
uneven mason
Also Dark Iron can't death knight
sand egret
more realistically it's ~800 of your main stat
uneven mason
^^
sand egret
it just pays off big time if you pop it right
uneven mason
which is equal to orcs racial more or less
right if you gimmic the shit of the DI racial its really strong
sand egret
but then 15% haste racial is there which is also really strong
so I don't think the power bonus itself is out of line, the self-dispel is the true power
supple path
400 AP vs 800 main stat != "about the same"
brittle timber
Let's be real, the stat boost from the dark iron racial is just icing on the cake
The cleanse is what's up
sand egret
it can be a lot of iciing
but yes
being able to compensate for your healers lack of dispel of a certain school is very strong
supple path
Trying to pretend it's balanced is just going to result in silly thinking, it's obviously a lure to get people to make dark iron dwarves.
sand egret
15% haste still exists
it's a strong racial that stands out because the faction as a whole is totally underserved
you feel the "have not" effect more
brittle timber
Yea, the alli racials are overall kinda weak
sand egret
is BE racial only an offensive dispel?
frosty wedge
yes
sand egret
ook, just checkin
supple path
Yup. AE, on the GCD, 1 magic effect.
frosty wedge
"only"
brittle timber
Yes, it still gives rage, mana, energy, and chi though
frosty wedge
^
sand egret
wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a MD as a racial
frosty wedge
it's 1 effect mass dispel and it trivializes my least favourite part of king's rest
lol
supple path
except that it's not a 'strong' dispel like mass dispel yeah.
sand egret
also, what's up with Druids not using Soothe
frosty wedge
it insta kills those little fearing assholes
sand egret
when I'm on my druid i'm sitting there like "yeah...enrage mother fucker"
frosty wedge
lol
supple path
doesn't show up on meters.
for damage or healing, so 90% of people ignore it
because people are bad.
sand egret
like those KR mobs that enrage for 200% increased damage
prob not a bad thing to get rid of....
outer dew
does the BE racial have a limit to how many people it can dispell
because MD is only 5 targets max
frosty wedge
if they made it buff youf or soothing, or worked as a spell steal people would use it
lol
nope, everyone in 8 yards I think
supple path
Yeah, half the radius, but no target limit
I'm not sure I've...ever gotten more than 5 effects with it though.
Not a situation that comes up often.
sand egret
like Soothe to me is a really cool tank ability, just that not too many uses really validate it
outer dew
wtb Enrage for warrior
supple path
Yeah, all these abilities that are balanced based around what content exists.
outer dew
pisses of an enemy so they take more damage
but deal more
easy life
wreck my own asshole
sand egret
granted I come from a shaman main back in the day so I live to Purge, but watching mob buffs does seem like something a tank deals with
frosty wedge
yep, I feel like people take for granted how much shit tanks have to be aware of at any given time
supple path
I do really enjoy arcane torrent in m+ as a fallback to "no interrupts left to deal with this, oh it went off and buffed everything...but is dispellable." though it's garbage vs anything with multiple stacks.
Since it'll only take 1 stack off a 5 stack buff or whatnot.
frosty wedge
I'm constantly watching and telling my DPS friends to move because pats are coming, etc, on top of doing the rest of my job
outer dew
being able to take off one stack is nice
supple path
Comparitively.
outer dew
like the buff in WM is fat AF
supple path
It's not really worth taking one stack off vs saving for another use 90% of the time
yeah.
frosty wedge
I love it for getting rid of watery dome in tol dagor
supple path
The "goddamnit why aren't you stupid mages spellstealing" buff
sand egret
I'd love to see self-buffs have more classifications
like dispels do now with poison/curse etc
enrages/magic/something else
supple path
Every time I dispel a fort or something instead of BoP I die inside.
frosty wedge
lol
outer dew
welcome to every other dispell class
when you spellsteal/purge every buff
but BOP is the last one
but you arleady oom
compact halo
I feel that pain
supple path
Other classes don't have a 2 minute cd on their only dispel.
But yeah.
I played a shaman back when purge was like 45 mana for 2 buffs and my brain will never accept that it's changed.
sand egret
there's just something more engaging about having to pay attention to what your enemy is doing. Sounds really dumb when you type it out like that, but other than interupts....shit just....happens in WoW and it's like "word deal with it".
prob why we have so many dps on auto-pilot nowadays (I ran a +7 last night and my Rogue legit didn't know what Tricks did)
supple path
Oh yeah. I'll old man yelling at clouds myself on this one hard, but I really hate how DBM/etc. have turned it from "react to monster ability" to "plan what you're going to do when monster does thing in 8 seconds"
Makes me a lot less engaged.
sand egret
I'd take a step back and say, I just don't like how it beats you over the head with HEY A THING IS HAPPENING
like that's an essential skill, awareness, that is trivialized
supple path
Yeah, I remember playing TERA when it first came out and I was like "So...the monster rears back its sword and begins swinging it...so I block. That just makes sense."
sand egret
fucking loved playing that game
it had its share of shitty
but man was fighting a BAM fun as fuck
literally all I did leveling
supple path
Yeah, excellent combat system, terrible game.
sand egret
find BAM > learn it flat > farm it
which is why I also play Monster Hunter so there's that haha
supple path
The next-generation MMO is going to need to incorporate all those things that make single-player games fun into an MMO
sand egret
also an example of auto-pilot. When DPS keeps running in green circle on the Tidesage Council boss after the chick is dead. Why? Because they don't know why they run into that shit, they just "did it".
solid mist
yeah monster hunter is really rewarding in that sense
supple path
But instead it'll be some nonsense like Dark Souls Online where fighting is fun but the crafting system actually has a dev travel to your house while you sleep to expose you to radiation to give you cancer or something.
solid mist
man... thats like... a really good analogy for dark souls though
sand egret
lol you shouldnt play BDO then
solid mist
but yeah. I prefer fights,mechanics that require you to actually look and pay attention