protection

[oblique garnet]

and freehold during the council it procs on the adds that are on the sidelines

[young harbor]

man these are terrible stories

its friday, happy thoughts

[oblique garnet]

i mean not council the ring of booty

[stark sage]

i have seen it proc into the target dummies in freehold, but it doesnt pull anything

[young harbor]

yeah

[signal plover]

Killed mythic fetid last night, those are happy thoughts

[dusk locust]

do you have your back to a pillar paw?

and if so which one

we felt like we were too far to one side and had some positioning issues

the raid that is

[signal plover]

First pillar on the left

There's a good shroom there

Tuck into the V

[dusk locust]

we were on the right. i think imma try left next

logs i'm seeing use that one

we're like always just 5 or 10% short on these eggs

[signal plover]

Little or big?

[dusk locust]

eh both it changes pull by pull

[signal plover]

Make sure ppl aren't switching off early

[dusk locust]

hm

i'll have to look

[signal plover]

Most likely it's ppl not getting there in time

[dusk locust]

i feel like given how many stacks of reorigination we have it shouldn't be this tight

[oblique garnet]

how many melees do you have?

[dusk locust]

we've been running w/ 5

[signal plover]

Ok then there's rly no excuse lol

Should be plenty of room

U have a DH/monk?

[dusk locust]

dh and mistweaver

tho we basically have no physical dps

tbh

lol

[signal plover]

Finding the dpa balance took a bit, we had to make some swaps. Afflocks are kinda balls for little adds

But great for big ones

[dusk locust]

yeah we have 3 of those

they are full time big add

[signal plover]

K good

Our biggest issue was ppl getting to adds late

1st set is also hardest imo

[dusk locust]

3 aff locks, spriest, 2 arcane mages, boomy, hunter, ele sham are the ranged. to fill out the last 5 melee dps we choose among frost dk, dh, 3 rogues, 2 warriors, and a ret pally

we also have another mage and boomy but they've had work stuff

[novel sparrow]

So any hope we will see additional prot changes in 8.1 Or is what weve seen likely it?

[shut summit]

🤷

[broken kite]

8.2

[signal plover]

Ya your comp seems fine

[dusk locust]

i'm just gonna have to spend a bunch of time combing through our logs

hoping for some magic bullet i can give them that'll solve it

almost certainly a positioning thing tho

ppl late to adds

[austere oar]

You have to pre-organize your raid on fetid

And sort ppl by 2 groups to optimize your add dps as soon as they pop

[signal plover]

Sounds like they're doing that ppl just reacting late

[graceful mason]

Have to have people realise they need to figure out their positions and route to run before the adds spawn

[austere oar]

Oh ok, well then they have to realize that you cannot kill the boss if the adds are not killed in time

[graceful mason]

And the only way to do that is to wipe like 50+ times lol

[signal plover]

The best was starting the night with a 0.4% wioe

Hitting that same percentage about an hour later

And then killing it on final pull

[graceful mason]

We pretty much do our first kills on the last pull of the night

Every time

[dusk locust]

how many pulls did you have before that first wipe

that'd be an insane start

and same styrth

[dusty gyro]

Come in to raid, kill boss on first pull

Well, guess we're done here

[signal plover]

That would been like our 30th pulls or something

Ended up being 61st

[dusk locust]

that's pretty good. we're right at 50 i think

first eggs usually die, then second eggs are like juuuuust short

[signal plover]

Literally every time we got through 1st adds clean we would get him low

[dusk locust]

i feel like it's a done deal once we get 2nd adds

3rd adds we're heroing

[graceful mason]

Overall uldir is pretty easy compared to how many attempts antorus took per boss

[dusk locust]

it oughta be, it's the first raid

😛

[abstract solar]

we got the pity buff faster this raid

in terms of array

week 1 with 370 ilvl it was pretty rough

or lower

[graceful mason]

Yeah heroic fetid was ruff week 1

Basically crushed me

[signal plover]

U weren't on a warrior tho

[graceful mason]

I was but I was doing MT not thrashes

[signal plover]

U did mythic fetid week1 on warr?

[graceful mason]

No heroic

[signal plover]

O lol

[graceful mason]

With like 350 ilvl or whatever it was

[signal plover]

Ya dat was like 5 pulls tho

[junior ivy]

i didnt know it changed to "clé" in french but thats adorable

[austere oar]

Well clé is the French for Key ^^ but yeah, the stone's gone missing

They even translated the Sethraliss so Sephraliss dunno why

[chrome falcon]

@dusk locust i'm having the exact same issue on fetid as you and we're on our third rekill

spent all of last night wiping on it, boss is just a serious piece of shit, we also have 3 afflocks and a spriest and our small add damage is just terrible

[oblique garnet]

I watched methods stream the other day when they were doing split runs and even they had issues where they nearly missed the small add timers

[dusk locust]

It’s just really tight. Hoping if I study our pulls some I’ll find an answer

What’s mildly annoying is that killing him is only going to bump us up like 2 rankings as a guild 😛

[chrome falcon]

It's really irritating because we had a pretty good pace going in Uldir and now we've just stumbled for like 3 weeks trying to rekill this terrible fucking boss

Like you cannot have a 10 second long dps check in the same expansion you make so many classes proc dependent

We had pulls where everyone played basically the same and we killed the big add with 15 seconds left on its cast

And then the next pull we do the same thing and don't kill anything, it's fucking stupid

[oblique garnet]

Yeah theres way too much rng in how the specs play

[dusk locust]

That’s a fair point I guess

But I mean even still it should only result in a wipe or two before the kill

[chrome falcon]

Yeah

But then when you add in how bad some classes are at certain jobs, plus RNG on add spawns, plus RNG(ish) on breath targets

[austere oar]

That's what makes this fight so interesting

Its not a brain dead fight where you do your rotation, ppl have to think about their actions constantly and react to their environment

[astral crystal]

"interesting" lol

rng isn't interesting or fun

[austere oar]

Well they can be located before spawning like 5 seconds before the spawn

So you can time the spawn and anticipate it, it's not full rng

[chrome falcon]

it absolutely is RNG

if both blobs spawn on the other side of the room

and then the breath cuts off the path to get there

[sick sentinel]

Just proc more, easy

[dark junco]

No more changes on the ptr at the moment?

[next ermine]

Not ATM no

[clear sapphire]

We still able to block projectiles on ptr?

[mighty gulch]

Is it true

Is DC getting nerfed?

I just got a whisper of someone laughing at me saying they're making the worst tank spec even worse xD

[primal crypt]

dont listen to those idiots

[steel mauve]

Yes, but its not as bad as it sounds, and we are getting buffs in place

[primal crypt]

^

[mighty gulch]

Oh we are?

[primal crypt]

DC was just balanced

that's all

[mighty gulch]

Is prot getting fixed?

Yeah DC is way overtuned

[primal crypt]

it was overtuned

[mighty gulch]

It's like our only lifeline atm

[primal crypt]

IP off GCD

SB uptime is up to 75%

up from 68%

pinned messages should show whats up

marok wrote a few things

[mighty gulch]

Holy shit im nuttiing

• Physical ranged attacks are now blockable.

IM NUTTING

[primal crypt]

oh yeah

that was a huge buff imo

[mighty gulch]

thats like

the biggest buff

[primal crypt]

someone posted screenshots

[mighty gulch]

out of them all

[primal crypt]

it was amazing

[mighty gulch]

No way this is a prank.

8,1 is way too good.

Is blizzard pranking us?

[junior ivy]

wait are these new buffs

or just ip being off gcd and stam/armor ones?

[primal crypt]

new ptr changes @junior ivy

this was from a few days back tho

unless you missed our discussion that day

[junior ivy]

but is there anything besides the ones i mentioned

and blocking ranged stuff

[steel mauve]

No

[primal crypt]

increased shield block uptime

they took off two seconds from the recharge time

[mighty gulch]

8.1 can't come soon enough

[junior ivy]

whoa i didnt know that about shield block

that doesnt sound bad

will it be enough?

toi make us good?

[mighty gulch]

So does that mean best served cold is now better than unstoppable cforce?

[primal crypt]

ITS ALL IN THE PINS

[mighty gulch]

Because we dont need to spam thunder clap

[primal crypt]

YOU GUYS MADE ME WASTE MY TYPING

these guys

....

[amber siren]

Every time yamorino types a warrior specs indomb

Please have a heart

[merry cave]

Lol 8.1 is too good 😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

Good meme's to wake up too

[primal crypt]

lul

[dusty solstice]

super buffs 😄

[junior ivy]

this shaman omg

this is td 7

[junior rose]

TIL that killing the spores on the last boss in Underrot with Heroic Throw procs Victory Rush, giving you unlimited VR uses throughout the fight.

[slow skiff]

This may sound stoopid, but aside from azurite traits, is there anything that increases IP absorb amount?

[steel mauve]

Better gear?

Its coefficient is attack power

[amber siren]

@slow skiff It scales with AP and vers so you can do it that way

[steel mauve]

Other wise no

[slow skiff]

ok ty

hadn't been playing prot yet this xpac and was curious especially with the GCD change

[chilly brook]

@mighty gulch no, UF is still better than best served cold even after DC nerfs

[green sky]

opinions on which is better?

I already have Archive from Gridrunner Galea

[amber siren]

IF will be better in physical fights

Bloodsport is ok for magic

but I mean

Not a huge difference

Like I know a few warriors use bloodsport for Zul bcs of the dot

[green sky]

thanks

[primal crypt]

PUMPIN

[sick sentinel]

I love how a middle trait (crystaline) is weaker than an inner (gemhide)

And @junior rose you can solo the last boss of underrot with victory rushing

[heady citrus]

I tried to do that when boss was still broken and spawned 500+ spores

500+ explosive orbs

didnt go well

cause all spores made orbs

[sick sentinel]

now it's hotfixed though

[limber tulip]

@raven ore

[raven ore]

👋

[lone umbra]

just dusted off the prot warrior after reading about the GCD ignore pain change...and this happened

[heady citrus]

https://gyazo.com/80576cf0829bbd285d3bc1c497b01213

which trinkets you guys like?

lion + syringe

[lone umbra]

seems legit

[sick sentinel]

SeemsGood

[heady citrus]

vial just seems bad

[amber siren]

Depends on the content you're doing and what you're aiming for 🤷

Vial isn't great tho

[sick sentinel]

if you are going for great AoE with avatar then vial is good

[heady citrus]

i want howler but no luck yet

[sick sentinel]

for m+ syringe+lion's is broken

parry EVERYTHING

[heady citrus]

M+ is main content i do

[sick sentinel]

then go lion's+syringe

once you get parry rating high enough ( through crit) you will see the true power

you can parry bleeds ( like in KR and the trash before the totem boss in Atal)

[heady citrus]

that pull is like bane of my existance

[mighty gulch]

Same

[wary crystal]

anyone experiment with other talents specifically for zul last phase? seems like never surrender would be better for that than bolster

[sick sentinel]

are you talking mythic?

[hot locust]

highy disagree

you can use bolster to use all your rage on IP while you are still tanking the boss

heavily reduces the feeling of the bleed

[wary crystal]

nah heroic

i always get murdered by the bleed i guess thats more of a healer problem

[next sable]

Just bop on the swap 😄

You'll drop the blood instantly when you get bop'd though, so go out and call for it

[wary crystal]

hmm

[subtle rivet]

\

frrrrtttt

[wary crystal]

rip

[cinder nova]

Is there any harm to scumbagging mythic zul adds as prot?

[crimson sentinel]

Yea save combat resses

[azure perch]

More pressure on the healers

I legit have my back towards the initial crawgsw

[fringe marten]

Is the deafening crash nerf already active or part of 8.1?

[stone crag]

8.1

[fringe marten]

Ok so ..still can't swap my shoulders.

=\

[novel meadow]

I admittedly don't know which combination I want to use here; can anyone help?

[dull ibex]

wat is a good vers to hit

im at 8%/4%

[stone crag]

there's no goal to hit, it's not even the best secondary to aim for

[fringe marten]

Rezan/Syringe. Sub out Darkmoon for Blockades if you're doing raid progression. Lingering sporepods has been substantially buffed and is not near as bad as it used to be, don't listen to the negative hype it's not a bad option. But random proc healing that takes 4 seconds to trigger means you'll likely be healed and it's just wasted overhealing (the real reason it's not great)

I meant sub out Syringe for blockades in prog raids..LOL

[novel meadow]

Thank you

[obtuse venture]

rezans blockades better

[neon tangle]

you know, pally tanks have some wacky mechanics

apparently you can BoP and divine shield for fetid thrashes

[novel meadow]

Yup

[neon tangle]

you can also blessing of spellwarding and totally ignore a combo for zek voz

well, minus the shatter

[novel meadow]

Can confirm lol

[neon tangle]

shit I'd love to have a BoP + Divine shield for zul bleeds

• ardent defender

[novel meadow]

minus the cheat death mechanic I feel shieldwall is much better than AD

[dark lark]

when pugging +10 keys, what's the best thing i can do as a prot warrior? pray for cc's to not break, and save shockwave for worm spawns?

[novel meadow]

I use stormbolt since there is almost always some caster being ignored. Perfect world; your CC shouldn't be getting broken because bad things happen shrug. is the issue Survivability or something else?

[dark lark]

nah not survivability, just overall control on worms

[novel meadow]

group just needs to swap focus. Thunderclap will slow them and there's your stuns if they're available

[amber siren]

you can int shout the worms as well

[novel meadow]

Crackling Thunder is another favorite of mine if you don't need bounding

just need to be aware of the aoe increase if you're not used to it

aoe range*

[dark lark]

you know what's funny is ive actually been running crackling thunder this whole time

because i literally always forget to switch to bounding

and i curse myself everytime i notice i need the bounding in the middle of a m+

[novel meadow]

I'm always swapping back and forth because o fraiding

[dark lark]

"gee it sure would be nice to be able to leap again with increased move speed" as i die to council in kr and sots

[novel meadow]

safeguard is the devil 😂

[limber tulip]

@raven ore yo

come play

[raven ore]

?

[limber tulip]

@raven ore

league

[raven ore]

im not playin

aram

thats 4 gays

[limber tulip]

stop

[stone crag]

🤔

[limber tulip]

@raven ore

stop being big dumb

@raven ore

[ember arrow]

stop bullying corejo

[radiant fulcrum]

=

[dark lark]

hi. i have two items: one is vers/mast at 375, the other is 370 with haste/vers

does the haste still outweigh 5 ilvls

or is the 5 ilvls that much stronger

[ember arrow]

which items

armor or rings?

[dark lark]

leg

[ember arrow]

no sockets on either?

[dark lark]

the pins preach ilvl, but it's only 5

no sockets

[ember arrow]

then the 5 ilvl is stronger

legs give alot of secondary stats, so upgrading them is almost always worth it

also, secondaries in bfa are so close to each other, that it's usually not worth holding back ilvl for them

[dark lark]

thanks

rings and trinkets are different story right

[stiff basin]

is 100% uptime on block possible? i can get about 50 seconds or so before i lose a charge

[dark lark]

@stiff basin is this including last stand?

[austere oar]

Depends on the fight you are tanking

[stiff basin]

@dark lark no land stand but yes on 100 talent to extend

[strong forum]

How the fuck do you get 50sec block uptime without last stand

If you can get to 24sec uptime with SB alone that's exactly 100%

You could only get the 50sec with maybe full procs and hero/bl

[oblique garnet]

Heavy reper cussions probl

[amber siren]

HR wouldn't be close to 50S

At all

[strong forum]

Oof HR :topkek:

[sick sentinel]

WE SAVED?

Ignore pain offthe gcd

POG

[stiff basin]

@strong forum trying different things out to get it without uldir array

like using Devastator with a dagger to get shield slam procs, using those to extend shield block by 1 sec

[amber siren]

yikes

[dark lark]

Wtb str dagger

[sick sentinel]

stranger?

[pulsar garnet]

@dark lark what about cloaks? i have one with haste/crit at 375 and one with crit/mastery at 365 with a socket. the second one sims just a little higher and im always tempted to use the higher itemlvl with pogchmap secondarys

wait i thought we were in arms section, my bad

[sick sentinel]

!wa

[signal plover]

Man

I get to be a maghar orc for the flashback bosses in next raid

Woohoo

[jaunty aspen]

hi quick question would you replace 340 shoulders with 370 ones if it meant losing DC?

[bold zinc]

how is prot warrior lookin rn?

in m+ and raids

[tidal siren]

hey guys, how do you decide between azerite traits? i looked at the pin messages didnt get my answers there

[vocal nimbus]

Check the icy veins guide

Its well explained there

[ember arrow]

if you want purely damage wise, then bloodmallet has answers

but ye, IV otherwise

[bold zinc]

how is prot warrior lookin rn?
in m+ and raids

[oblique garnet]

@jaunty aspen no

[sick sentinel]

@bold zinc with 8.1 buff for raids it will be good for m+ will be better yet probably not as good as others

possibly prot pally level decent yet not best

[junior dew]

anyone know what icon that is on the left? I don't play prot often and I have no idea what it is. https://imgur.com/a/2fu3uhd

[raven kernel]

RBG lmao

🤔

[amber siren]

@junior dew looks like a macro, you'd have to ask whoever the ss comes from

[junior dew]

i took the screenshot :p

[amber siren]

ask where you took the ss then i guess

[vocal nimbus]

either a macro, a trinket or any usable item

cant remember a trinket/item with that icon this xpac

🤔

[junior dew]

it's from an addon, saying "hey use this", was very confusing. I'll post on the addon page

[amber siren]

there's a trinket from tos that uses that icon

[junior dew]

oh for the gods sake it is the trinket. I SWEAR I looked at that

thank you any way

[amber siren]

👌

[coral dew]

Somewhat broad and maybe odd question

But at what point should I try targeting specific gear/stats?

Like right now I'm 302ilvl obviously my main focus is just raw ilevel right now, but when should I start trying to go for haste/mastery

When do I start getting picky I should say

[raven kernel]

when you have multiple pieces of the same ilvl

[coral dew]

Makes sense

Any strategy to target stuff? Or just keep farming and cross your fingers

[raven kernel]

if you're somehow severely lacking haste then you can consider dropping 5-10 ilvl for a haste ring or something

but otherwise nah

personal loot is RNGesus so

[coral dew]

Word

[raven kernel]

when you start doing M+ then obviously target dungeons that drop what you need

[chilly brook]

When you whisper someone about trialing as a prot warrior for Mythic @shut summit pogchamp

[raven kernel]

lmao

dats positive though

means he acknowledges that good prots exist

[chilly brook]

Better than most

[raven kernel]

and is willing to give u a shot

[chilly brook]

way better than "lawl prot is bad gtfo"

[raven kernel]

truth

[chilly brook]

unfortunately haven't seen a response after this

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vocal nimbus]

If you try to get into guilds that trial people in hc ive got some bad news for you

[chilly brook]

I mean trust me I prefer not to trial in heroic

But I gotta go with what's open to me

[brazen sequoia]

Bolster over Indominable on Vectis M, ye? Feels like I'm taking sooo much dmg

[vocal nimbus]

Bolster always

Use SR actively

[brazen sequoia]

eh... SR?

you mean shield block?

[vocal nimbus]

Spell reflect

[brazen sequoia]

oh right

[vocal nimbus]

Get as few lingering infection as possible

[hollow bolt]

If u spellreflect the dot you dont get a stack of the debuff

Right before it falls off..

[vocal nimbus]

Ideally you want 0 stacks

[brazen sequoia]

ofc

so the tank dot I spellreflect?

evolving affliction

[vocal nimbus]

To reduce some damage

Use last stand and shield wall freely as well

[shut summit]

@brazen sequoia no its when Omega Vector fades / give you stack of lingering infection, can SR that

some groups dont give it to tanks but with prot warr is worth it, just takes stacks out of the fight for DPS

[brazen sequoia]

alright ty 😃

[wooden vortex]

oh i was just looking at @shut summit profile

saw him on some log pages 😃

[shut summit]

[wooden vortex]

i feel pretty discouraged lately, no motivations to try m4

joined a plate team earlier as dps and saw DK having such a easy time -_-

also most of the pugs have high expectation of tanks it seems, 1 wrong pull and people start leaving

should we form our own groups for M+?

[oblique garnet]

Feels badman i got 370 shield but its worse than my 365 with a socket

[late coral]

Anyone got a rough outline for CD rotations in M+?

Should i be trying to do things like not overlap Demo with SB?

[chilly brook]

CD rotations in M+ are just like any other time

And no you should be using SB whenever you can utilize it

[late coral]

So whenever some guy is clubbing you about the head?

I find when raid tanking the rotation of CDs feels different because there is downtime in active tanking

M+ tends to be chain pulling

[vocal nimbus]

@oblique garnet are you sure about that 🤔

[sick sentinel]

@brazen sequoia you do not use indom, EVER

@oblique garnet it shouldn't be worse, the block stat is sure valuable

[steel mauve]

A 370 shield is better than a 365 shield with socket period

No matter what a higher ilvl shield is always better, the block stat is our best stat by a large margin, its our best mitigation

[sick sentinel]

^^

[willow hazel]

would you guys say strength over armor pots?

[steel mauve]

Thats what i use, armor pots are a bigger defensive gain when physical dmg is dealt other than dots, but doesnt help you when its not where as str helps the boss die faster

[digital arrow]

i've a noob question: steppin into heroic when u are saved to a previous group only penalizes you and nobody else doesnt it? Like mythic0 dungeons, i thought everyone can receive loot except you

[steel mauve]

Ya, if you are saved it shouldnt effect loot for every one else

[digital arrow]

thanks

[sick sentinel]

@willow hazel well str gives you a little bit of crit too 😄

[supple path]

They hotfixed underrot's explosive problem, right?

[steel mauve]

Strength gives parry, not crit

[willow hazel]

Does it not give block now too?

no, just parry by the look of it

[steel mauve]

Only parry and ap

[willow hazel]

gets his old man voice out for talking about vanilla

[restive matrix]

We get armor too from strength

[willow hazel]

armor isn't listed on the tooltip, you got a source?

i'll test it with a weapon

[restive matrix]

The passive we have

That increases our stam and armor

It keeps getting buffed

Not on my warr right now, but think it is just listed as a skill

They keep bumping the armor and stam up by 5%

[willow hazel]

ah yeah

i see it

Vanguard

50% of strength

[grand trellis]

Been trying to gear up my prot Warrior. Not feelin the love from the community

Ready for this stigma to go away

[willow hazel]

it's definitely still rough

[graceful mason]

It won't go away until next xpack

It's only our utility that is lacking.. nothing about tanking

[willow hazel]

is there a graph of the strength to parry conversion anywhere?

or anyone know the formula?

eh, the gcd thing is annoying still

considering most classes have their primary mitigation tools off GCD

still

also i would love just a tiny bit more passive rage

[daring marlin]

@graceful mason What exactly would you want utility wise for Warrior?

[willow hazel]

shockwave is amazing utility

as is tclap, demo shout

[daring marlin]

I’m pretty okay with no utility as long as I’m strong as fuck.

And yeah, shockwave is so underrated.

[thorn yarrow]

tbh I just want us to have a stronger slow effect for TC

[grand trellis]

Really I get pretty hyped about how much damage we do

[thorn yarrow]

20% is laughable

[daring marlin]

What makes me laugh is that talent for pallies still exists that makes consecrate slow by 50% and they buffed it for bfa by tacking on the 15% larger radius lol

[cinder nova]

"TC slow 2 gud stop now"

[oblique garnet]

@steel mauve you say its worth but im losing block 1% of block 2% mastery 2% of haste

[steel mauve]

Yes, shields give you the amount to block, block rating is always worth upgrading

The higher ilvl shield, the more dmg you block from attacks

[cinder nova]

More stats > ideal stats

It's pretty cut/dry.

[oblique garnet]

mastery increases block

[thorn yarrow]

ilv is king

[cinder nova]

Mastery increase block chance

[steel mauve]

It increase block CHANCE

[cinder nova]

Not block value.

[steel mauve]

Not block damage

[cinder nova]

Block chance is useless to us since our AM is literally 100% block.

So

[daring marlin]

y i k e s

[steel mauve]

Shields effect the actual damage you block, which is always better

[cinder nova]

I only enchant mastery and gem mastery over haste because I'm just trying to pad and vers is boring af

[steel mauve]

It is the only way you can block a higher dmg total, and so it is always better to go with a higher ilvl shield

[cinder nova]

It's always better to go with a higher ilvl anything so long as you aren't losing DC.

Except maybe trinkets.

But trinkets are a fucking mess atm

[steel mauve]

Not always true, rings can be better with a lower ilvl with a socket if the socket gives more stat total

[cinder nova]

Yeah, and that's usually within 5 ilvls.

And what do sockets do?

Add...

[steel mauve]

40 stats

[cinder nova]

**ilvl

[steel mauve]

Idk the exact ilvl, but add all the stats together and add 40 to it and just see of its better

[cinder nova]

It depends on the ilvl of the item.

The value you see people quoting is usually the average sum across a normalized ilvl.

eg. Legion 900 wrists with a socket was just shy of 12 ilvls

Helm of the same ilvl with a socket was only a bit under 7.

But none of that matters, to be honest.

[raven kernel]

🤔

id like to see brews do this

[open bluff]

but prot sux

[autumn pendant]

No u

[raven kernel]

meleed for 43.5k, blocked 70k

[limber tulip]

i could stagger that

[raven kernel]

if a dk got meleed for 113.5k (infact it' be higher cos lower armor)

and they deathstriked 70k

healers would be like

OMG SELF HEALING SO GOOD

[weary python]

So if the ptr changes go live, are we likely to be middle of the pack, or actually in a good spot?

Or c) still bottom?

[junior ivy]

😦 im scared to find out the answer to that

[spark mortar]

So what keys are absolute death this week? M8 and above.

[junior ivy]

shrine sucks this week

a lot

[spark mortar]

Yeah I figured as much.

I got Siege of Boralus (vomits)

[junior ivy]

the damn explosives on the last boss

when the adds come out

the explosives immediately spawn sooo spread out

you barely get a chance to dps the boss between phases

cause youre too busy making sure explosives dont wipe you

[spark mortar]

That's rough.

Any other keys that seem decent?

[junior ivy]

i did it with people who had a 1500 .io score

and we wiped 3 times on last boss

umm atal dazar is nice this week, i chested a +13

and i chested a 10 kings rest

[raven kernel]

shrine is shit this week i heard

[junior ivy]

yeah it is

it was awful

[raven kernel]

those big packs

huehuehuehue

yea id stay the fk away from shrine

too many big pulls

[junior ivy]

yeh we used a ton of cc but it still sucked

[mighty gulch]

1 million hp in warfronts feels good tbh

[oblique garnet]

@spark mortar temple is also kinda eh

The avatar with bad rng on the explosives spawn is aids since each of those hoodoo hexers spawn it also heart guardian and plague doctor spawn them

[raven kernel]

waycrest is ok but be careful in the maggot hallway

[spark mortar]

We have a choice between Shrine, Siege or Temple.

FML

[junior ivy]

i did a siege 8 the other day.. it wasnt fun

none of thsoe are fun this week 😦

[oblique garnet]

Ive done tol dagor, shrine and temple this week

shrine was the only one we couldnt even complete because our comp was ass

[pearl dew]

Did a waycrest just now, was fine except for our rogue with brain damage that thought that a bunch of mobs (elite or not) meant to aoe tf out of everything.

Siege wouldn't be so annoying w/Bolstering if it wasn't for the whole 'runs away in fear' mechanic that most of the mobs have in there.

[prime terrace]

I haven't played in 2¬ months or so, has Prot been buffed at all?

[junior ivy]

we are getting a nice buff in 8.1

[prime terrace]

ah yea, all 3 specs / classes i want to play are buffed in 8.1 lmao

Ele, Shadow Prot W

has been pretty fucking boring hence quitting

[oblique garnet]

I would level alts if the 1-60 wouldnt take forever

[vocal nimbus]

do DHs then

lul

[oblique garnet]

Heirlooms work between 100-110?

[stray gazelle]

If upgraded, yes

[remote tusk]

How do I deal with Zul's 2nd Phase?

[steel mauve]

Trust your healers to focus you

[native plinth]

haha

[worthy karma]

hey hey, anyone good at weak auras and wanna help me take a feature from one and put it on to a diff aura?

[remote tusk]

Try #ui-addons-manager

[sick sentinel]

Ele hardly changed. Just some damage got moved around, gameplay still feels bad

[fringe marten]

Barlar, what are you trying to do?

For the purposes of converting crit to parry in M+ Is the Syrine or Butchers block better? I'd think the block, if it proc'd early on a pull would provide better uptime and higher parry on the pack than the syringe. I think the syrine has overall higher uptime on the buff.

[mighty gulch]

prot warrior mechanic question

When a melee attack comes in and you have ignore pain and shield block up

Which damage reduction does the damage filter through first

[stone crag]

shield block goes first

[mighty gulch]

Okay thanks

[stone crag]

absorbs after damage reductions

[mighty gulch]

So it gets reduced by (Block %) and then that gets reduced by ignore pain?

[raven kernel]

absorbs last

[stone crag]

yes sparky

[raven kernel]

which is why when people complain IP disappears in seconds it usually means they didnt have SB up as well

[mighty gulch]

^

Thanks guys

Im fairly new to prot

[raven kernel]

basically absorbs are artificial HP

[mighty gulch]

Yeah i know that

[raven kernel]

they only subtract when you would take hp dmg

[mighty gulch]

I was just wondering about the ignore pain absorb

So a hit for 10,000 damage would be reduced by 38.55%
Which is 3855
Leaving 6145
Then ignore pain absorbs 50% and i take the other 50%
So I take 3072.5 damage. Correct?

[raven kernel]

yes

[mighty gulch]

Alright cool thank you.

I think i'm picking this up rather quickly.

[lusty grotto]

oh boy

[raven kernel]

REEE

[lusty grotto]

indom ROFL

[raven kernel]

he's missing ravager

[fair crystal]

lol

[lusty grotto]

i whispered him, inc kick

[fringe marten]

Actually something I'm not sure about; but I believe, is the damage mitigation priority, Dodge, Parry, Armor, Block, Absorb ?

it's the armor/block I'm not sure about..I know dodge/parry are considered first.

[wanton blaze]

armor/block are multiplicative dmg reduction factors - they come together, not one after the other

@fringe marten

[true plover]

How are Prot War looking compared to other tanks for M+/raids in 8.1?

[random finch]

We still don’t bring anything that makes people want to bring us but we are getting a nice buff

[worthy karma]

@fringe marten i have a IP aura i like but i wanna take the part of Sco's WA for IP where he gives you the value and add that to it

[neon tangle]

Does anyone know the ICD on bone shield for DKs

[tight lake]

ok so leveling warrior for first time and is taking IP off the GCD really that big of a deal?

[fringe marten]

it is and isn't....it is for the sake of increasing dps/rage gen and just overall playing the class in a smoother, easier fashion...having to take a GCD to bring up what is now a very weak IP, stinks.

[neon tangle]

It will be nice for avatar cycles

And nice for m+ since aoe packs mean more rage

[tight lake]

im still like a month away from 120 and being geared lol but will Prot be useful like DH/DK for M+ and DK/Brew for Raids by then?

[neon tangle]

And give us more procs for SB (due to more globals for devastate and revenge) so more rage, and thus more IPs

I think it’s a lot more of a buff to m+ than people realize

[random finch]

I just wish there was something other Then damage that only we bring to m+

[neon tangle]

Yeah, not a lot interesting in that area

Shout and an AoE stun I suppose

[random finch]

But so many dps bring aoe stun

[neon tangle]

Is true

Definitely not as useful as grips and a brez

[random finch]

I saw on the mega thread someone had the idea of making ravager be like druids ursol vortex that would be nice and actually make me maybe pick that useless talent

[inner trail]

would be nice if aoe fear had them cover in place by default like dh's fear

at least there's a talent for it tho

[daring marlin]

?

Just use it as an interrupt and break the fear with TC.

[coral bramble]

370 laser matrix with crit bonus or 385 with brace for impact? D:

sorry for sudden question fam.

[steel mauve]

Is it your only way for reorigination module?

[ember arrow]

@neon tangle boneshield's ICD is 2.5 seconds

[coral bramble]

@steel mauve its that or dropping an 385 RP for a 355 archive.

[steel mauve]

In raid i think the 370 for the haste, outside of it the bfi

If youve stacked it up at least

[coral bramble]

the problem is, with my gear the module is stacking me with crit. which is why i was flaky about it in raid.

[amber siren]

does archive pick a stat before or after ITF?

I can't see your crit being higher than your ITF stack

[coral bramble]

the module only checks the raw number, not the % of haste. and ITF only modifies the %.

[amber siren]

yeah sorry module was what i meant

[steel mauve]

Ya its your highest number secondary, not % based

And to be honest, crit isnt bad, so a lot of it can still be good

[sick sentinel]

gamer

[weary python]

So are these changes going to shake up the tank rankings by any chance?

[amber siren]

No

It'll just make us more forgiving to play and it'll be a buff to those who already play well

But it won't change any metas

And BDK is still v strong with the amount of cooldowns they have as well as any kind of grip

[open bluff]

it's a step in the right direction for prot, but the spec needs more significant changes if the goal is to actually change the current tank meta

judging by the way blizzard's been adjusting tanks so far though, that's not the goal

[green elbow]

It will probably hurt bad tanks who rage starve themselves too much, since that's going to be even easier to do, and rage generation isn't increasing (unless I missed some note about that)

Otherwise it seems pretty much the same, and probably will barely be noticible single target

[zinc mauve]

i was tyring to figure out why Zul is so hard for my group

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/473049613725859841/505959098072825887/chrome_2018-10-27_23-15-22.png

i figured out why

yes that is 26 wipes

we had that healer on the bottom every single fight, but for some ungodly reason, they only got dark revelation once

while our other healer had dark revelation put on them literally every single fight almost every single time

supposedly in another discord someone said it was based off of either your player ID or your position in the fight which sounds so collosally stupid i hope it isnt true

[next goblet]

how we feel about the changes?

[stone crag]

happy

[next goblet]

i wouldn't say it fixed us but it definitely is going the right way

[junior ivy]

its weird tosee this place being optimistic about state of prot warrior

iliek it

like*

[stone crag]

lol

even at the peak of legion for warrior it was still pretty pessimistic

[junior ivy]

I KNOW and i loved us in legionnn

[outer dew]

i mean

most of the people that stay here regularly

are making do and dont' feel as miserable as everyone makes it out to be

[junior ivy]

true.

pretty soon itll be 2 years since i started comin to warrior discord...

[next goblet]

i love my warrior

[orchid gulch]

Eh, it doesn't feel as bad as people make it out to be, at least not for me

[junior ivy]

we are good in raid IMO

m+ is .. i duno.. not as good

[orchid gulch]

M+ is kinda bad for us, but I found Impending Victory to be somewhat useful if I don't have my personal healer with me

[amber siren]

[orchid gulch]

Most people seem to be used to self healing tanks, I guess

It's not like I'm doing high keys though, usually a +9 or something the like

[amber siren]

I mean pug or not, taking IV over ITF is just making you take more damage

Self healing or not

[orchid gulch]

Yeah, I know

I just found it to be useful if the healer is neglecting the tank

[outer dew]

i mean

i feel pretty safe with a druid

but the ones i real with just throw rolling and hots on me

knowing i'll be fine

[orchid gulch]

Druids and monks are great IMHO

[outer dew]

but i do call out my cds and scream I have nothing

LMAO

but i communicate a lot because of pvp

[orchid gulch]

Eh, as long as there's at least a little healing going on it's fine for me; I usually announce my CD's as well

Aside of M+ I usually roll with Punish though as I usually get assigned to do things like taking the Thrash on Fetid

[next goblet]

ITF all teh way for me baby

more haste = more shield block = more mitigated damage on thrash

[junior ivy]

hm should ido a motherlode 6

[next goblet]

melee heavy raid group

so i have 5 stacks

[sick sentinel]

everyones too used to tanks now that have some form of self-heal.

lazy mentality thanks to legion+ design.

MW heals or druids best case though for prot tanking mythic+

[orchid gulch]

I usually manage to have my CB up when it comes, alongside some BS via Intervene / Intercept

SB*

[sick sentinel]

those with super high ilvl/haste next patch gonna see themselves blocking 100% of the time if PTR goes through with current changes....

kinda nutty. + IP back off GCD

[orchid gulch]

Yeah, the changes are looking good so far

[sick sentinel]

too good.

[orchid gulch]

Although I kinda want Neltharion's Fury back in some way

[sick sentinel]

biggest imo though being able to block ranged attacks again.

pretty lol beta gayme.

[orchid gulch]

Hm, I don't remember blocking ranged attacks being a thing at any point, although I skipped MOP completely

[junior ivy]

i jjust want bracers back

😦

the ones

legendaries

[sick sentinel]

you were able before legion I know for a fact.

idr if could or not in legion.

didn't play it extensively.

[orchid gulch]

Oh, then I just didn't pay attention enough I suppose

[sick sentinel]

back in the beginning vanilla, you could.

😛

[next goblet]

yeah ranged physical attacks

[orchid gulch]

Still, taking two Taeshalach Techniques at Aggramar and blocking like 20+M damage was kinda cool

[next goblet]

^^

[sick sentinel]

Blocking the apocalypse.

the end of the world.

[orchid gulch]

Too bad if the raid already jumped off at that point D:

[next goblet]

lel

warriors are low key gods for the shit they block.. WITH 1 ARM

[sick sentinel]

yeah man.

arm joints of the Gods.

[junior ivy]

whenver im on my druid

and im healing a warrior tank

i make sure to tell him

that i love warrior tanks

and that im happy hes my tank

to coutneract the negeatibity

[sick sentinel]

lol

[junior ivy]

negativity*

[stone crag]

lol

[sick sentinel]

played well, monks and druids are perfectly fine healers for warriors mythic+

esp MW for 5% melee buff/melee focused mythic+ group, or druid's utiility.

[orchid gulch]

I've found warriors to be pretty solid tanks since Vanilla, but you have to keep an eye on them as a healer

[junior ivy]

i ❤ them

[sick sentinel]

basically.

[hoary surge]

so, I know what the general best talents and traits are, but specifically does anyone know what the best options for ST dps are? I'm trying to parse on some farm content

[sick sentinel]

just have to rub their booboos cus they cant themselves.

[hoary surge]

assuming I will never touch ignore pain

[sick sentinel]

like original tank/heal design.

[hoary surge]

are punish or devastator viable options? heavy repercussions?

I wish fucking raidbots would sim prot

[orchid gulch]

Well, I'd go for Heavy Repercussions and Punish at least

[stone crag]

no

[sick sentinel]

if you just want DPS for parses, triple DC azerite traits and other DPS traitds (gutripper, heed my call etc) and same ole specc will still do more ST damage than other alternatives if you properly maximizing demo/avatar + demo uptime.

AM is still better than HR AOE and ST.

[hoary surge]

triple DC? oof

[sick sentinel]

Unstoppable Force maximization is still better damage than anything you can buff shield slam for.

booming voice +15% damage is still more DPS in general than devastator.

especially so as haste keeps getting higher and higher for more tclapping.

[amber siren]

higher haste would make dev more appealing than tc

not the point though

there's no sims for prot so it's just guesswork

[sick sentinel]

double archive/DC is better than triple DC actually

oops

for DPS

can always look and compare top prot warr logs (Sense majority of them) see what they use. 😛

aim in that direction.

[junior ivy]

should iheal a motherlode 6

[hoary surge]

there's a couple top devastator parses

it's hard to really tell because most people aren't using it

devastator with double brace for impact seems good

[orchid gulch]

Devastator seems to be rather lackluster currently without decent haste at least

[hoary surge]

but punish and repurcussions seem non competitive

though again that is going to depend on whether anyone who has the gear and group available is willing to try

[orchid gulch]

The best way to figure that one out is to test it yourself

[stone crag]

i highly, highly doubt HR would ever compete with AM in current tuning

or...

do the maths

[hoary surge]

I mean, AM is synergizing with unstoppable force pretty heavily yeah

but punish/devastator/hr also synergize

[stone crag]

not really

[hoary surge]

???

So more shield slams doesn't synergize with shield slam doing more damage?

QUESTION MARK?

[stone crag]

marginally more at best

[hoary surge]

I'm not arguing the amount since I have literally no clue ofc, that's why I'm asking

aight time to get old school I guess, where's a decent single target dummy

[orchid gulch]

Boralus should have one, if you're alliance

[hoary surge]

negative

[stone crag]

icy veins guide is more than detailed enough on explaining why devastator just isn't the ideal pick

[orchid gulch]

The Zandalari weren't so eager to let me in the last time I visited, so I dunno where that one is

[hoary surge]

I'm not even concerned with devastator right now, logs have already convinced me it's better, especially if you don't have DC in a dps set

which I don't

[outer dew]

he's talking about dps parses

lol

[stone crag]

still relevant
Realistically, most Shield Slam resets from Devastator would not be close to full value. Some resets would overlap with a reset from another ability, or a reset may line up where Shield Slam has a GCD left on its cooldown, meaning that reset did absolutely nothing for you. With that said, it should be clear that Devastator is not competitive when it comes to Rage generation.

[hoary surge]

that's not true when you explicitly aren't using ignore pain

you will almost never waste a proc

[neon tangle]

Devastator makes even less sense to me once 8.1 happens

Vengeance might be interesting

[hoary surge]

also devastator adds a lot of auto attack damage

[steel mauve]

There are a lot more top parses in logs with bv than there are woth devestator

Even top 10s, overwhelmingly bv

[raven kernel]

why are we having this conversation rofl

[hoary surge]

that's true but you have to consider that devastator is being disproportionately represented in top logs

relative to its actual usage

[steel mauve]

Bv is still a dps increase over devestator, unless its 100% purely single target

[hoary surge]

that's what I was asking about though

[steel mauve]

If you hit any thing else with demo shout bv instantly wins

[orchid gulch]

Well, I'd say as soon as you have one point in DC Booming Voice would be better due to the increased duration and the general damage increase

Without DC Devastator might be worth it from a DPS POV

[hoary surge]

I just wish I could sim it

[stone crag]

learn c++ and fix the module ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hoary surge]

fuck I did enough of that shit in wrath

[steel mauve]

Only if its pure single target, 100% of the fight you only deal with 1 enemy

[orchid gulch]

Yeah, that's the scenario he set in the original question

[steel mauve]

Then devestator will win purely in dps

But not in rage gain, and not in controlled rage gain

[hoary surge]

rage only converts into revenges though which is basically a gcd filler

[outer dew]

i mean

[steel mauve]

Devestator got devalued a lot when they added the fact you can reset ss with tclap and revenge

[outer dew]

he only cared about parsing dps wise

lol

not about survivabiltiy

[hoary surge]

and I don't think you can run low on rage if you only revenge

I typically have to shield block to avoid overcapping

[orchid gulch]

In a ST scenario without Vengeance and Devastator, what would be the point to use Revenge if you don't have the Callous Reprisal trait? AFAIK without it Revenge and Devastate deal the same damage and have pretty much the same chance to reset SS

[steel mauve]

Revenge does a lot more dmg than devestate

[hoary surge]

revenge hits harder than devastate and dumps rage

[steel mauve]

Devestate does less damage than our auto attack

[hoary surge]

you need to spend your rage to benefit from AM

thus you need to revenge st for DPS

[orchid gulch]

Point taken

[steel mauve]

Devestate is literally the last ability in our priority

[stone crag]

correct

it is a true filler

[orchid gulch]

Well, it'S a pretty cheap filler for when you have no button to press

[hoary surge]

if you're actually tanking not like a monkey you're supposed to devastate over spending rage on revenge

afaik

unless you're near cap

but procs > devastate

[orchid gulch]

Revenge is usually reserved for procs or to keep Callous Reprisal up

[hoary surge]

BUT THIS CONVERSATION ISN'T ABOUT LIVING

IT'S ABOUT KILLING

[steel mauve]

Usually you revenge when you're about to cap or irs a proc behind other abilities

[chilly brook]

You revenge if you're about to cap or have a free proc and don't have other more important abilities to hit

SS>TC>Revenge (with proc or if you need to dump rage and wouldn't otherwise need to spend the global or rage on IP)>Devastate

@hoary surge

[outer dew]

the conversation is about dps vs correct rotation

;P

[junior ivy]

should i do this motjherlode 6

https://gyazo.com/52e62182a6da148d79c71651c3cf4946

[hoary surge]

so on a dummy devastator is doing considerably more ST dps than BV with no traits influencing either

punish is actually trash

HR seems non-viable on a dummy but it might be better if you were getting hit and could reliably get revenge procs and some extra rage. Probably trash though

think I'll just go with devastator st and bv aoe

disappointing

[final mist]

Small testing on logs means jack shit, especially since one of your major sources of Rage is gone if you aren't hitting a tank dummy.

[stone crag]

reading back up on it, that's already bad play... you press ignore pain regardless of damage vs survivability because it feeds into AM and rage generation

Zelos

assuming I will never touch ignore pain

in #protection · Oct 28, 2018, 5:50 AM

[final mist]

And I'm assuming you weren't, since you mentioned HR might be better if you were getting hit (which it wouldn't be, since AM is actually balls-to-the-wall retarded for DPS and survival).

[hoary surge]

reading back up on it, that's already bad play... you press ignore pain regardless of damage vs survivability because it feeds into AM and rage generation```

ignore pain does not generate any rage

[final mist]

Devastator is a minor DPS at best on pure ST, that's it. There's no pure ST fight in this game other than Patchwerk.

IP spends it, which is the point.

[stone crag]

never said IP gens rage

it feeds into AM's RPS

[final mist]

You spend Rage using IP (or Revenge) for AM.

[hoary surge]

we have two other rage dumps

[final mist]

More Rage spent, more CDR, more CDs used, more Rage to spend.

[hoary surge]

IP is clearly the worst for this purpose because it does 0 dps

[stone crag]

doesn't mean you don't press ignore pain

[final mist]

Revenge has a CD.

[stone crag]

that's incredibly bad play

[hoary surge]

yes it does

shield block and revenge combined will never let you overcap rage

both provide dps

[final mist]

You will still hit IP every so often even doing a DPS-focused rotation.

[hoary surge]

why, exactly?

[final mist]

Because Revenge has a CD, and in any actual real-world scenario, Revenge and SB won't be enough to prevent you from overcapping.

Again, you're hitting a target dummy, which means you're missing a large source of Rage generation.

[junior ivy]

loooook at those clouds in sals name

[hoary surge]

I haven't experienced that in any dungeons or raids

but maybe

[stone crag]

bunch of SF+ are full of clouds

[hoary surge]

so both SB and revenge are on cooldown, you're about to overcap rage, and you've taken devastator, you'd press IP

shield slam would probably have to be on cooldown too

since pressing anything other than that is pretty clearly a dps loss, especially with devastator

[stone crag]

if you have rage, spend it
if you don't, generate it
tbh the "rotation" is fairly simple If and Ors

[hoary surge]

well this is actually not super obvious

[stone crag]

you don't ignore abilities because they're specifically defensive, like Ignore pain, it still spends rage which feed into AM

[hoary surge]

is spending rage with no attached inherent DPS better than casting devastate?

it's probably not better than shield slam

[final mist]

It is when you take into account AM.

Especially if you're >75 Rage

[hoary surge]

so how much damage is 4 seconds of avatar CD worth

[hoary surge]

actually probably more than a shield slam even ST

so I guess if you're going to waste all or most of the rage and you have no other dump it's worth it ST

seems pretty niche though, it's hard to overcap when only tanking one enemy

[sick sentinel]

Warcraft Logs and Parse were a mistake

[zinc mauve]

im still angry that my guild is struggling to kill Zul because of a stupid bug

[sick sentinel]

Tanks worrying about DPS, fucking christ

[zinc mauve]

tanks are there for not dying and dps

if you cant do the first one, focus on that first, THEN do dps

[sick sentinel]

Unless u are literally brainless, you have to do that as a tank so your focus should never be on dpsing

[stone crag]

that's definitely not true

[zinc mauve]

only in certain fights am i actually focusing on survival more than dps

[stone crag]

there is never a situation where a tank shouldn't be doing damage

[zinc mauve]

correct

[stone crag]

Tank damage matters, unironically

[sick sentinel]

Thats my point, ur dpsing naturally

[zinc mauve]

a tank should be at least doing enough damage so that them plus the healer (in the case of m+) should be about equal or greater than the DPS

[sick sentinel]

So ur focus should never be on dpsing

[stone crag]

also enough to hold agro

because you know... dps = agro

but that's also not true

[zinc mauve]

you shoudl be doing both

[stone crag]

it's not either or

[hoary surge]

if you are never at risk of dying you should be playing as if you were dps

because at that point, you actually are just a dps that happens to be getting hit a lot

[stone crag]

obviously if you're progging a boss you shouldn't put damage over your survivability

[zinc mauve]

its kinda like saying a healer should focus on healing; they should still do damage and focus on it if they can, but not if it means someone dies

[stone crag]

but that doesn't mean you don't do your most

[zinc mauve]

there are situations in which survival of the group is more important if it means you will wipe otherwise; there is no blanket statement for this kind of situation that applies universally

[stone crag]

Tank Damage and healer damage are both considered for phasing

[hoary surge]

in this case I both want to do more damage and take more damage(so healers can parse better)

it's win/win

[sick sentinel]

The difference between a healer and a tank is that a tank is naturally dpsing so at what point should you be "focusing" on doing the thing that is to be expected of you

[zinc mauve]

maximize group dps is your goal as a tank

[final mist]

You have three main objectives as a tank:

1. Don't die.
2. Don't let your groupmates die.
3. DO as much damage as possible within those parameters.

[stone crag]

ez

[quick elk]

Amen

[final mist]

As soon as you know you can "survive" to the best of your ability, there is absolutely zero reason to not push as much DPS as you can.

There are several historical cases where tank DPS matters as much as any DPS' DPS for boss fights.

[stone crag]

tight boss % phasings

[zinc mauve]

1% wipes are a testament to this

[final mist]

Tight DPS checks come to mind, but that goes for any boss - the more DPS you have, the better.

[zinc mauve]

i had a mythic+ key where we beat the timer by 0.4 seconds

literally 1 gcd

[final mist]

Saying, "Meh, don't push DPS, you're a tank" is just so assbackwards that I don't want to address it, because it's that much of a braindead statement.

[hoary surge]

I'm sure everyone who has done a chunk of M+ has missed or made a timer by 1s

[zinc mauve]

yes, that 1 second can be bought by simply doing more damage

(assuming you dont die as a result or cause downtime that wouldnt have normally occured)

[hoary surge]

FFXIV by virtue of their small raid sizes and easy rotations is pretty explicit about needing good tank and healer DPS in hard content

it's kind of interesting to me that WoW hasn't made it more obvious that it's an important aspect of the roles in modern design

in XIV, even if you have all your dps pushing the limits of what their class is capable of, if your healers don't dps you don't make enrage

period

[raven kernel]

pushing dps on hard content is one thing

taking shitty talents to top parse on inconsequential farm content as a tank

is another

[hoary surge]

what the fuck else are you gonna do?

[vocal nimbus]

Its pretty obvious that you have to do dps in current wow tho

[hoary surge]

just afk through farm without trying?

parsing is basically the entire point of playing the game beyond progression

[vocal nimbus]

I try to afk through farm as much as possible

[raven kernel]

except trying to top parse for the sole reason of top parse on some mythic fights

will get you removed from the raid

😃

[hoary surge]

not if the whole raid is on board

I mean I'm not farming bosses the raid is progressing on

it's farm for everyone

that's how it works

[vocal nimbus]

🤔

[raven kernel]

go maxdps M zul

and kill all the crawgs

you'll turn it into non-farm

[amber siren]

just parse 100 🙂

[hoary surge]

I don't think going all out as prot would break zul

[amber siren]

if you're doing the usual rogue stacking strat, padding would fuck it up p bad

[hoary surge]

most zul kills have an arms warrior padding their ass off anyways

[raven kernel]

iirc method literally kicked some of their melee from the raid because they wouldnt stop aoeing crawgs

[hoary surge]

it's actually likely to become a bigger issue with better gear

ironically

[raven kernel]

i do zul as arms and i bladestorm like maybe twice the entire fight

who gives a fuck about my parse if the boss dies

[sick sentinel]

I do ❤

[raven kernel]

if i go balls to the walls aoe

the boss isnt dying and there is no parse anyway

[hoary surge]

you just gotta find the middle ground

or convince the raid to let you go balls out

[raven kernel]

i'm still top non-rogue for dmg on zul

[hoary surge]

either way

[raven kernel]

still doing my job

[hoary surge]

I mean parses aren't really important for anything

it's just something fun to do during farm

because otherwise it'd fucking suck

[raven kernel]

sure, but not at the expense of other things

[hoary surge]

never suggested it was

[raven kernel]

of course every vectis zekvoz etc i try for higher

but fights like zul i only look at boss dmg and not overall parse

cos trying for overall parse means padding like an idiot

and causes problems for the entire raid

also you guaranteed fuck up the parse of all the rogues

[hoary surge]

zul is a fight where you pretty much designate a parser

[raven kernel]

and on M ghuun

[hoary surge]

one person gets to pad

[raven kernel]

focusing on parse there is idiocy

[hoary surge]

well I haven't gotten to ghuun yet

but yeah, probably

[raven kernel]

damage is only relevant on certain blood feast adds to make sure they die in time

otherwise only p3 dmg is relevant

but if you want to top parse you need to pad like a motherF in p1 p2

which is a swift way to be removed from prog team