that shit is actually aids af to kill as prot warr from my exp
#protection
rich folio
limpid leaf
Zul kill went well, thanks for the advice yesterday. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AvQLr9MjzHF3ZxJB/#fight=14&type=damage-done&source=12
limpid leaf
?
upbeat folio
I have to kill it with a shield slam. It takes like three devastates.
On my DK it's 2 heartstrikes or 1 death strike.
So when I did Atal, I had to save shield slam in addition to block and pummel for the add phase.
manic basalt
are prot warriors not able to sim?
jade socket
not at the moment
merry cave
Explosive is easy hit it with a slam and dev or dps will hit and slam will finish
Makes the week real easy for prot as you get tons of vr
topaz badger
rofl did a +4 yesterday (helping guildies) , it's fun when you can actually tank the mobs and don't have to kite, topped dps from start to end xD
junior ivy
i think i prefer dpsing m+s than tanking them 😭
next ermine
Dpsing m+ with how Arms currently is with a guild group is pretty damn fun
junior ivy
im fury 😦
sick sentinel
Honestly I give up, I can not stand people telling me that we are fine when all the other tanks do what we do way easier and then some more. I actually feel sad to abandon a main I had since early TBC but that's it, they don't have a clue. Time to reroll 😦
junior ivy
what kind of content are you doing that prot isn't good enough for?
sick sentinel
m+ both with my monk 363 and my prot 376 and it's way easier and more fun with the former, which is a shame. Maybe I'm not skilled enough but high keys are HARD you need to balance 50 things at once, no time to execute a challening rotation to achieve average at best result
junior ivy
yeah, m+ are where we really struggle
😦
i do fine as prot in raid but i'm starting to prefer dpsing m+
so far i've only chested two +10s as prot
raven kernel
On monk it's your healer that suffers, not you
sick sentinel
what do you mean? I cleanse damage and receive very few complaints, I don't get how the spiky status of war, no you have and health bar, now you don't is even better
As a healer would you prefer to steadly heal someone for the whole dung, or have to react to without warning to a health bar disappearing?
Stop telling yourself we are fine, this is not fine, pure denial
sick sentinel
I guess I am too dumb for prot then
raven kernel
Maybe it just isn't suited for you
sick sentinel
but sure is weird how all the other tank spec have a very fluid rotation while we have a clusterfuck of skills, so many that you can eliminate devastate from your keybinds. Isn't it a bit weird that a monk have a rotation of 4 skills and no cd, while war have like 8 plus cd?
raven kernel
Prot does require higher apm
=/
I'm used to it
Honestly the other tanks being much simpler to play makes them boring for me
sick sentinel
And that's bother me, sure the skill ceiling is way higher but is it rewarding?
if you perform your rotation perfectly wich takes times and skill you are not the best tank in the game, you are just fine
raven kernel
On a pure effort to reward comparison, prot is behind other tanks I agree
sick sentinel
isn't working hard to be just fine a problem?
raven kernel
I definitely see where you are coming from
sick sentinel
I think that if a class is way more difficult than others and you manage to play perfectly you should feel like a god. Prot is like, do you play perfectly? no, you are probably dead
raven kernel
Personally I'm already committed to warrior and I'm fine with putting in the effort required
hot locust
But other tanks bore me, and I personally dont mind putting in more effort for the same reward.
raven kernel
Of the other tanks only dk is bearable to play and that's because the reward is much higher
hot locust
(I also dont actually think its that bad either)
limpid leaf
I considered re-rolling a blood dk, just because our raid healers are 2 druids and a priest and they struggle to keep a pally and me up some times, but i like prot warrioring, so i just stick with it.
raven kernel
Bear and dh is zzzzz zzz
hot locust
DH I dont mind.
limpid leaf
plus we are still better than being a shadow or holy priest right now
hot locust
Played one a lot in legion.
raven kernel
Legion dh healed more so it felt better
sick sentinel
Do you ever feel like you are bringing your team down? I do, Last night I brought some guilies in a +10 to boost them a little, the healer is bad like really bad. I'm used to this type of things in the last 10 years. We were having serious problems doing a damm freehold +10. At the end one of our dps had to go prot pally and we did it. Never felt more ashamed in game since ever...
raven kernel
Bfa dh I feel pretty bad
hot locust
Never felt that way, no.
raven kernel
I'm a mainspec dps and my healer picks me to tank over our raid tanks for m+
So I'm pretty damn happy
hot locust
If I thought warrior would be bad enough to feel that way I would have swapped.
limpid leaf
Yeah sometimes I feel like a massive healing sp[onge when my brothers blood dk barely needs heals at all, our archetype is based on an old model, its rpetty much redundant in the modern game
unborn crest
Prot needs a CC called Prisoner of War, the target is bound, gaged and water boarded for 30 seconds
sick sentinel
It is not tough, we were able to sustain ourself, then fucking blizz had to make us heal dependant, but forget to do that to all the other tanks
raven kernel
I played since vanilla so I've always been heal dependant =/
jade wyvern
uhhh, that isn't true @sick sentinel
limpid leaf
I feel like that cc would suit an outlaw rogue better?
raven kernel
My mitigation makes up for it
sick sentinel
In my example the pally was doing 6k hps to himself, good enough to get trough with the 10k of the healer
hot locust
Brewmaster, everyones favorite takes more healing than other tanks.
unborn crest
we are warriors/soldiers
raven kernel
I want to be able to Toss mobs
hot locust
Thats great that he heals but he should also take more damage if you are playing properly.
raven kernel
Like freehold Enforcers
unborn crest
yea, handcuffs
limpid leaf
soldiers dont waterboard, special forces do ergo SI:7
sick sentinel
brewmaster has not, not mitigation zone, they are always mitigating, we have a huge gap and to shorten it you need to play really really really well
raven kernel
Brew master in m+ with only one healer cannot tank like we do
It will require too much healing
hot locust
Thats great. You still pointed out healing required, and brews need the most.
raven kernel
They have to kite still
sick sentinel
it required just not to have a disc priest
limpid leaf
All I know is in raid tanking we are not the best by a long shot
outer dew
Hmm. For m+
Never feel like I'm the problem
I feel sturdy enough where I can run dps trinkets
raven kernel
Brew really isn't great in m+
limpid leaf
Self healing tanks take less healing and that emans when our dps messes up, a lot, they can be healed
outer dew
I mean
I'm on comms with my healers usually
If I noticed the healer is behind, I'll pop last stand early
Just to let him pop people up for a bit
There's times where some packs I just decide to
Avatar/Tc/revenge spam
And don't mitigate for 10's
hot locust
I dont think you understand the cost having self healing actually has @limpid leaf
I do not require more healing than my BDK co tank.
raven kernel
Most people don't lol
limpid leaf
Im not concerned by the cost, the outcome is what matters
sick sentinel
In a balanced situtation if you don't have any self heal you should take a lot less damage, like a lot les
that's not the case
hot locust
Numerically speaking we need the least healing.
limpid leaf
It definitely feels like I need more heals
outer dew
I mean, are you running with disc/druid?
hot locust
Watch your DK more.
outer dew
My healers are happy with me
limpid leaf
our holy priests wont spec disc
hot locust
Betcha his healthbar moves plenty.
limpid leaf
druids are weak tank healers unfortunately
outer dew
That's the point though, rdruid can throw rolling hots
hot locust
@raven kernel LOL
outer dew
You're not chunking as hard
hot locust
Back to top of healing meters like Legion
raven kernel
@hot locust reddit would explode amirite
limpid leaf
you can see blocked damage on wow progress rioght?
raven kernel
Not under healing I'm sure
But honestly if you treat blocked dmg as healing
It would be dks complaining about us
Cos it can be fucking ridiculous
outer dew
I've gotten that shit to 50+
outer dew
And not give a shit
raven kernel
Huh? What fire
You gotta clear stacks man
Huh I do????
Meanwhile my healer just giggling in the background
limpid leaf
Thats actually very true, I never worry about that boss lol
outer dew
Like any meele focused boss is cake
limpid leaf
its a tank and spank from my perspective
outer dew
Like there's few times I'll feel scared
hot locust
Ok, as an example for the healing required @limpid leaf I'm gonna use some of my own logs here.
limpid leaf
ok
hot locust
This is a log where I tank 10 more melees by Zek and we take the same number of tank combos
so we have roughly the same tanking uptime
though mine overall is slightly higher
there is pure damage taken
after mit
there is actual healing required by the 2 tanks
So even though I technically have slightly higher tanking uptime, the amount of healing I need is lower.
limpid leaf
as a side issue, the framerate lag in drustvar is bloody epic right now
hot locust
It's even about 15+% lower at that.
The problem with warrior isn't healing required, it's improper play around not having defensive tools up while actively tanking.
Which I do all the time and get smacked for too.
Only other fight I can use where tanks do the same job is Mythrax
and it's the same there
took 1 more shear and more melees, still less external healing.
The difference in M+ is DKs running bonestorm
that shit is busted and getting a pretty hefty (though it's still strong) nerf.
outer dew
I mean, I like feeling like I'm an extra do for aoe
hot locust
Utility like grip and stuff is a whole different game and while sure we lack some good M+ tools, keep in mind the damage we take and healing we need is not the reasons currently for why people think warrior suck in M+ (if they are good/smart people).
limpid leaf
both are better than the dk i see
sick sentinel
blizz class balance always made around raiding and raid mechanics thats why utility is insanely big stuff in m+ yet we are not seeing any decent nerfs to huge utility buffs classes brings cause most of them are not really that usefull or not good at all
raven kernel
Our dmg is significant
sick sentinel
shroud is useless in raiding yet shroud is nearly must for couple dungeons
raven kernel
Clear speed is ultimately what matters in m+
limpid leaf
I absolutely dont care about M+, just raids
sick sentinel
same can be said about grip its good to have but not necessary at least for uldir but for m+ its really huge
hot locust
In raids I'd argue we're a pretty damn good tank right now if played correctly.
limpid leaf
Who wants to run the exact same dungeon for 2 years? no thanks, Im a raider
sick sentinel
i would say the same
outer dew
???
sick sentinel
after 8.1 buffs prot will be good for raiding
torn sun
yeah that is the issue right "played correctly" prot is good, it just requires more skill
outer dew
Who wants to wipe on the same boss for the next two weeks?
sick sentinel
for m+ i dtill dont think so we will get better yet never will be best pick tank compared to others
outer dew
Only so many times I like looking at the same room
sick sentinel
little buff to range generation and possibly getting spell reflect 5 sec duration back would make prot also good in m+
still not as good as dk and dh
hot locust
Anyways I'm off to bed. Gonna go dream some more about being sleeper OP in raids. :^)
sick sentinel
nn dude
limpid leaf
Thanks for the help @hot locust
sick sentinel
for me problem in prot is rotation how bad it is right now i played warr in NH it was bad yet i enjoyed it alot cause it was fun
hot locust
Anyone who wants to play warrior I try to root for o/
sick sentinel
but right now its meh
limpid leaf
you get tunnel vision occasionally, I do because of rotation staring at the cd's and mashing them
o7
sick sentinel
also i saw jb stream part other day talking about prot and he joined +6 and said thats best they can do
raven kernel
@hot locust m ghuun 9% last night reeee
topaz ember
I love how they made Ghuun a fight that low wipes is so common
sick sentinel
after getting used to first phases last phase is all about damage healing part and its pretty bad really fast
raven kernel
Last phase is all that matters pretty much
sick sentinel
and start of fight is chilling in general
torn sun
the mekkatorque fight looks like its gonna be so fun 😃
hot locust
@raven kernel You'll get it! Now that we're on farm we're relearning the fight without 4 warlocks and it's pretty fun getting to solo run an orb.
topaz ember
going to be hell for pugs glad i got a guild for this xpac
raven kernel
We have 4 locks anyway and I told my rl I can solo but he still puts me in a pair
=/
hot locust
I was in pair during prog
Didnt mind it, meant I got to hit the boss faster.
fuck I need to sleep.
torn sun
yeah me too, although I would be happier if we could actually progress in the 14 ppl we have
but we always pug so we have at least 2 warlocks
hot locust
depends are you throwing or are you the dunker?
raven kernel
Solo is just gate leap charge charge cya
hot locust
if you are thrower it's faster
raven kernel
I'm dunker
torn sun
Do you need to tank swap in the first phase on mythic?
hot locust
IM TIRED I NEED SLEEP OKAY
Nah but in second you do still
and you have to run orbs during that phase too
hot locust
everyone except for one group of 4 has to run it twice
so I ran very first in P1 and again to in last set for second beam of P2
torn sun
nn
hot locust
PeepoJammies
near bridge
Was thinking of dusting off my old warrior and came here for some tips/links on current WA's. However there are only two links to two specific auras. Any tips on a full suit of auras?
near bridge
I realize that and I have the list before me, but there's usually only one or two that the community favor above the others.
vocal nimbus
There isnt any logical way to favor one or the other
Which auras you prefer is pretty subjective
near bridge
Fair enough.
raven kernel
My WAs are designed for my ui =/
obtuse venture
anyone know if WA will get fucked by the new build?
amber siren
the addon itself or a specific one?
amber siren
you'll have to ask the weakaura discord prob
sick sentinel
The old aura system will still be there until 9.0 releases.
fresh dagger
hey, just got a shield for my warrior
now i want to try playing prot for a bit, not sure about talent choices
and i don't trust icy veins or sites like that 😄
signal plover
@fresh dagger icy veins guide is written by the mods of this discord, it's the go-to resource at the moment
fresh dagger
but is it up to date at all times?
signal plover
Yes
fresh dagger
that's what i meant by not trusting it
ah, well then i didn't say anything, sorry 😄
signal plover
Additional info is also in the pins here
fresh dagger
thank you, i'll look into it
vocal nimbus
I wouldnt trust marok either
signal plover
(regarding incoming changes n stuff like that). And if anything doesn't make sense, just ask here and we will turn it into a discussion about how you shouldn't reroll BDK
jagged bay
hey have a nice weekend everyone 😃
dapper kayak
@jagged bay you too bro
daring marlin
jagged bay
😃
gray parrot
I got it bois...I finally got it
ditching my old 340 shield was the best feeling...it only took 13 rerolls to get a shield from Uldir
coarse jay
question: 365 big red button or 345 jes' howler?
just curious if the on use Vers on the howler is more valuable than the extra strength from the higher item level big red button
frosty wedge
Haha Octane - Grats!
gray parrot
ty
frosty wedge
and I'd go Jes's - it's a mini oh shit buttona nd a DPS boost
but I'd also farm higher TD keys
to get a better one
coarse jay
@frosty wedge thx
granite vale
cz i been trying to figure out whats "Bowbly" doing and it seems this guy has mastery all over
even the enchant
frosty wedge
is that the m+ warrior guy? I mean, mastery's pretty solid
granite vale
no raid 100 average rating guy
i know its a dps log but if u can do that much and still tank its good
oblique garnet
Iirc that guy also does high keys
granite vale
.<
slate vine
I want his dps trinkets too
granite vale
gotta give mastery the love it deserves now
oblique garnet
You could compare his logs to senses logs iirc sense had haste type of build?
See how it affects the damage done/taken etc
frosty wedge
no one thinks mastery is bad - haste just logically works - at that gear level he probably has enough haste innately to feel good and would rather stack mastery
granite vale
oh.... that sense is also a beast
k now u convinced me Late
doesn't matter that much both builds are good i guess
oblique garnet
I only have haste gear so i dont know how much stacking mastery personally affects the playstyle
wintry ermine
370 syringe vs 395 disc of systematic regression, the 395 right?
vocal nimbus
@wintry ermine yes
oblique garnet
I like having tc on 0.5sec cd with avatar and bl
granite vale
only thing different hear is that they seems to be using dps trinkets
no more blockade
frosty wedge
yeah once you get like 30-40ilvls up you go with the str
jagged bay
gz!
topaz badger
@gray parrot I got that shield from the first warfront quest reward 😛
slate vine
Got one yesterday (375 with socket), I cried in happiness
sick sentinel
@granite vale mastery stacking is actually good for m+
granite vale
so as a prot warrior u can't do sims right?
u just follow the haste/vers/mastery/crit order?
amber siren
ilvl first but yeah
granite vale
isn't there a certain cap or something
amber siren
no stat caps
bronze lance
so my mastery idea go no support on the fourms, along with the arena idea. Although guys there is hope the "reroll to blood dk" did get 300+ posts and a blue post so i guess there is hope?
crisp hearth
I got past 52% haste in uldir! Shit got out of control with avatar bl on zul pull
I'm actually considering gemming vers or mastery
crisp hearth
Too much to press xD
amber siren
haste still reduces sb cd
viral garden
With the exception of the Deafening Crash trait, is there any scenario where I would not use a 385 azerite piece over a 370 piece with traits I like?
viral garden
alright
signal plover
Noooo my meme is too sloooow
wild atlas
Bowlby raided with me in Legion on A52
signal plover
Did u guys make out?
gray river
355 shoulders with Archive of the Titans or 370 shoulders with bloodsport
wild atlas
As an arms warrior he was parsing 100’s nearly every fight. Then did it in Tomb and Antorus on a monk and parsed 100’s again
He’s literally the DPS King. Not surprised he is near tops for Prot Warriors right now. Taught me a fair bit too. DPS trinkets are all that matter for tanks imo. This game got faster and faster and the traditional “safety first” tanks are fading away a little bit.
bronze lance
dps parse are all about raid catering to you
wild atlas
Not at all
bronze lance
100%
wild atlas
I do whatever is needed for the group and I’m doing 99’s
bronze lance
yea as is most others, but the people who do 100% are the ones who get to ignore soaking
they get to ignore the CC add
bronze lance
he may very well be the exception to the rule
but most of the parses are because the raid caiters to that person to do that
oblique garnet
Its also easier to get 100 when there are no weak links in your raid group
wild atlas
Now that part is true
dusk locust
yeah 100 is often dependent on your whole raid doing obscene damage
wild atlas
Raids don’t cater to you but if you’re doing what you need to do, and have a great group of people,hell yes that helps
bronze lance
take mother for example, you wont parse if you are in the first group to go into the 2nd room
dusk locust
or, your raid being terrible so you get to sit in execute
oblique garnet
yeah as arms
bronze lance
but if they let you stay in room 1 till the end, and then switch to room 3 in the first group then you will do way better
oblique garnet
but as prot the longer the fight lasts harder it is to parse 100
wild atlas
Ohhh for sure! Mother is tough to gauge parses at all
oblique garnet
ive tried every kind of cheese known to man and i still cant get 100 on hc zekvoz
dusk locust
as prot it seems like the secret is not using ignore pain
bronze lance
my knowldeg of bawlby is from the zul parse where he is like 3rd on ALL warrior damage
wild atlas
That’s not true.
bronze lance
which a friend linked me - enhance shaman main
dusk locust
every big parse i've looked at used ignore pain a handful of times
wild atlas
You can use ignore pain as a means of getting avatar and demo shout up faster
Force feed rage
signal plover
Just avoid capping
oblique garnet
Yeah but if you have free revenge and an open gcd you use ip inbetween claps
dusk locust
that's probably where the handful comes in
signal plover
Also on zek it's all about how many add spawns there are
Like my mythic parses will always be trash cuz we push in 2 add sets instead of 3
dusk locust
yeah same
oblique garnet
i have horrible ghuun parses since im running an orb cant get past 90
dusk locust
imo once you're a good strong consistent purple or low orange parser as dps that's fine. everything else depends too much on circumstances
signal plover
Honestly this tier I haven't cared much about parses
signal plover
In ABT I was all about dat citrus life
dusk locust
last expansion i was a rogue in a fairly melee heavy crew, so i'd sacrifice parse on bossess like garothi if ranged needed help soaking
did a selfish pull once and got my good parse and that was it
oblique garnet
im happy with 95 average as a tank
bronze lance
it would be really nice if WCL had like an........mitigated damage leader board
took into account armor and skills
oblique garnet
I wish i had high freehold key but no had to have a shrine
Its relatively easy 2 chest this week
junior ivy
i did an 11 freehold.. we didnt chest it
it was with the same people who chested my AD 13
so i dunno
frosty wedge
freehold is super doable, the route really matters though
junior ivy
we were only over by 8 seconds
oblique garnet
With rogue its laughable
junior ivy
we had a rogue!
oblique garnet
You only have to do pack of enforcers and rogue
Last boss needs a but coordination but thats about it
modern brook
whats the friendly captain in free hold this week?
oblique garnet
Eudora
modern brook
oh so its fucking free
oblique garnet
Yeah
modern brook
I've been running underrot all week
oblique garnet
Sharkboss is the only hard boss this week
modern brook
sharkboss on tyranical alwys requires you to be awake, for sure
modern brook
that ones only hard if you got the gun girl shooting you
the other two are really just dont stand in the circles :D!
which only gets particularly difficult if you're a 4 melee comp
oblique garnet
Just wait for the sword to reach the boss and the whirling stops
sick sentinel
Do you have the weak aura for the council boss?
There are 3 kinds of small circles
2 buffs and 1 poison
1 gives 50% crit, other 30% haste and 1 makes the healer hate you
granite vale
guys for vectis we can reflect the omega vector right?
or what part is spell reflect useful for?
reef fulcrum
Yes, it's reflectable
granite vale
so does it mean that if someone next to me and he is about to give it to me i can reflect it?
cause i tried and still got it
modern brook
Did you get the debuff? I think thats what it prevents the application of, not the dot
reef fulcrum
You can get it, it's ok, just make sure to reflect it when it's going to expire so that you don't get the infection stack
earnest zinc
Are the PTR changes a buff or a nerf?
DC nerf is big
Also I heard from 2 people that prot will likely be meta in 8.1
I don't think the meta thing is true though
earnest zinc
Mainly because the buffs are offset quite a bit by that DC nerf
Also there's the fact that we are rarely meta
We are usually good, but not meta
granite vale
tbh we are not that bad, its just people are so picky nowadays
i have done +12 timed runs with no issues but ppl still want to take dk so they get boosted 😛
earnest zinc
90% of guilds tell me to tank on my brew instead of the warrior
Also it's a pain to gear warrior because no one wants prot in M+
Monk is that way some too, but not as bad
earnest zinc
I get like 80% decline rate for +8 to +10 with 600 on my monk
It's pretty much 95% for a +7 on this warrior with 350
modern brook
Taking IP off gcd is welcome but doesnt really address all of the specs weaknesses
namely its reliance on its talent tree to be able to tank things
earnest zinc
I don't notice that big of a difference between the warrior and the monk other than I can't get one shot on the monk
modern brook
there really isnt that big of a difference
earnest zinc
Though I take more damage on the monk despite being 10 ilvls higher
modern brook
The major idfference is that if you get up to get a snack when playing monk, you still cant get one shot
granite vale
taking ip out of gcp doesn't sound like that much tbh
its not like we are having crazy rage generation
modern brook
where as if you mess up a global on prot you probably died
earnest zinc
Main issue with warrior is you are fucked when shit goes wrong
The only real CD you have is Shield Wall
Last Stand and Demo Shout are in the rotation
modern brook
My prot spec is ~369 (hella) and tanking a +2 requires just as much focus as a+10
dusk locust
ehhh that's going a bit far 😛
earnest zinc
Healers say the monk is easier to heal though
modern brook
Ofc they say that, you have stagger
warrior was easy to heal when it kept 100% uptime on a 90% bubble
we dont do that anymore
we're the cooldown tank
earnest zinc
Effective health on warrior feels like trash
I saw a DK about 370 being practically immortal in a +7
modern brook
@dusk locust exageration aside, the major issue with Prot is that we are not allowed mistakes
earnest zinc
He was overgeared, but the healer only needed to heal dps
signal plover
It's like BDK has a self heal or something
dusk locust
i'd argue you can make small mistakes here or there but you're right that it's least forgiving
frosty wedge
yeah.... I have a 360ish DK that sustained alone for like 25 seconds tanking 4 mobs in a 10 while my healer ran back after standing in sanguine last week
it's kind of absurd
modern brook
and because its currently being discussed, the accuracy required, mixed with the reliance of our healer, makes it feel like trash
earnest zinc
Now I see why people only want DKs
modern brook
like we have to play super well all the time
just to be able to do content
not do it better
frosty wedge
yeah, more work for less pay off
dusk locust
i've done a 15 in time but i'd never be invited to a pug for something like that
earnest zinc
Why play warrior when you can do better with less effort on monk?
dusk locust
i tank exclusively for guildies
dusk locust
it's the effort that keeps it engaging imo
earnest zinc
Warrior is not trash, but it makes stuff require you to be constantly vigilant
frosty wedge
agreed, I'd like the skill ceiling to stay the same, the skill floor is the problem
modern brook
^
signal plover
Which is exactly what the changes are focused on...
dusk locust
as long as the floor and ceiling are far enough apart that i feel my decisions matter, i'm all for lowering the floor
earnest zinc
Even letting ISB drop doesn't feel bad on monk
modern brook
Thats why im glad they're being conservative with the changes so far
frosty wedge
yeah, having ISB not up on a monk should be SUPER punishing
earnest zinc
Though it's only ever for a second or two at most
frosty wedge
because you have to be literally not pushing buttons t let ISB fall off
oblique garnet
+2 reguires focus?
modern brook
My only complaints with prot: revenge and devestate feel like absolute garbage to press; our talent tree needs to be baseline on like 3 teirs
earnest zinc
I didn't notice not having 100% uptime until I was told from logs
I think prot needs a "get out of jail free" card
frosty wedge
well yeah - my monk is... 372? I stagger 62% without ISB and 86% with
modern brook
Like if you're not playing bolster anger management , you CANNOT tank as prot
runic hare
earnest zinc
Brew just feels like I'm doing nothing but getting rewarded for it
Warrior is "oh you made a small mistake? enjoy dying and wiping your group."
dapper sky
Are you guys concerned with the skill floor being so low because it makes us look bad? Frankly I kinda like it.
earnest zinc
Yea
dusk locust
you mean high? or am i thinking about it wrong
signal plover
High
modern brook
I'm concerned with overbuffing, if thats what you're asking
frosty wedge
if you don't have ISB up you should be staggering like 40% max, eveyrthing else should be hitting - stagger is too powerful and ISB is too easy to maintain, having no punishment for not playing properly sucks
earnest zinc
I get shit for being prot warrior because of it
frosty wedge
the issue is there are too many bad warriors
modern brook
^
frosty wedge
because the skill floor is higher than other tanks
so people assume warriors are shit
dapper sky
Yeah I mean I guess the majority of what I do is with guildies so I'm not very worried about community perception
modern brook
Warriors also lack the tools to be desirable in M+
dapper sky
THAT I agree with.
modern brook
like Sheild block is hands down the best mitigation in m+
frosty wedge
oh for sure, we need utility, there's no doubt there
modern brook
and we're still trash in it
dusk locust
i'm okay with there being a spec that has a high skill floor tbh
modern brook
because lol getting hit in m+
dusk locust
but yeah the utility doesn't make up for it
signal plover
Only thing I'd love for prot to have is a signature ability that's very obvious to a group
dusk locust
if we were "this tank is great in m+ but you really, really need to know what you're doing" that'd be perfect
frosty wedge
people will always rather take my DK that trivilaizes AD and KR - and has grip/gorefiends, and can self sustain, and battleres
dusk locust
lol
modern brook
Grip (already insta accept) brez (insta accept) self sustain (more healer dps - insta accept)
relevent flavor
We have AOE STUN and BIG FOOT
dusk locust
enslaving undead yeah that's pretty good
frosty wedge
oh man, in king's rest when I MC the hunters, it's hilarious how much my dmg goes up
and like, for AD, the only difficult packs before poison boss are hilariously easy b/c you just MC an honorguard and fuck the pack up with it, then kill it when it's low, lol
and you just remove an honorguard from the equation with every pack
then you use the honorguard for a great DPS increase for the rest of the dungeon
modern brook
man im gunna level my dk...
oblique garnet
And then your enslave drops and the add resets back and then you keep teleporting back to t
gray parrot
TFW you get the shield upgrade you want/need and then your guild cant come up with 20 people to progress on mythic 😦
i think people are getting bored with bfa
frosty wedge
I literally NEVER have that issue - I dismiss and re MC every few packs
frosty wedge
yeah I actually kinda like Uldir
modern brook
like bfa has problems sure, but the raiding and dungeon content are not it.
oblique garnet
The siege of zuldazar looks amazing tbh
modern brook
no spoilies plz
gray parrot
day 1 - 90 mins heroic, 90 mins mythic
day 2 - finish heroic, rest on mythic
last night was Day 2....we finish Ghuun (was the only one left from the 90 mins from day1) and then we were 3 people short of going into Mythic to try and down Zek
i was pissed
oblique garnet
3 short is better than 14 short
frosty wedge
yeah, I'm actually considering raiding for siege of zuldazar
gray parrot
same result
frosty wedge
I've been pugging on my monk and it's.... painful
oblique garnet
3 short of mythic can atleast still farm hc 14 cant
gray parrot
pugging is awful
frosty wedge
BUT I finally got my weapon from H zek
modern brook
Pugging is fine for taloc / mom
gray parrot
well guild leader last night said "no more heroic"
frosty wedge
yesterday
modern brook
I wouldnt pug zek
gray parrot
we are only doing mythic now IF we can get the people
but i dunno that people will show
frosty wedge
yeah I've pugged mythic taloc/mother
modern brook
that sounds like a community problem tbh
modern brook
wait how cany ou hate m+
modern brook
m+ was the best addition to wow in like 12 years
gray parrot
M+ is the most boring shit ive ever done in wow lol
frosty wedge
^^
gray parrot
i loved it at first
frosty wedge
that ^^ was to bull, not octane, lol
gray parrot
but chasing drops is meh
modern brook
Honestly BFA made it even better
frosty wedge
raiding is also just chasing drops
gray parrot
and i really dont care about timing challenges
if i wanted timing challenges I would go back to DIII
modern brook
you're nuts man
gray parrot
raiding I dont do for the drops...i love the encounters
frosty wedge
I like the challenge,and I like that the fights change up everyw eek
gray parrot
and the idea that 20 people need to work together
frosty wedge
keeps things fresh
oblique garnet
Theres excessive amount of adds in most of the bfa dungeons
frosty wedge
see, the idea of 20 people working together is what kills raiding for me
modern brook
@oblique garnet like where?
gray parrot
M+ is a glorified quest grind
frosty wedge
I hate dealing with people that suck at the game and waste my time, lol
modern brook
or are you refering to excess adds
gray parrot
"go kill these 20 packs of these things"
modern brook
as in "adds i dont have to pull"
gray parrot
I will say "SOME" bosses in M+ are fun...but most arent
modern brook
I also dislike arguments that begin with "basically" because we dont stop with basically
Like you may as well just say basically wow is 2 hours of not socializing with women
oblique garnet
I mean sure you dont have to pull those adds
gray parrot
M+ is like questing...only harder mobs
with the occasional boss to make you not go entirely insane
frosty wedge
I think my only real problem with the content in BFA so far is they made shit that basically requires some classes
like, the best way to do tol dagor requires a rogue
modern brook
Yeah thats fair
modern brook
I'm not totally against that
oblique garnet
Tol dagor can be done with blacksmiths too
frosty wedge
yeah, but it takes longer
modern brook
especially with the alt-topia that wow has become
modern brook
people are constantly complaining that they cant keep 7 raid ready toons
so like if they want to start moving into a system that can support haivng 7 raid ready toons
frosty wedge
so me opening all the doors leading to Jes withs crolls takes fucking forver
modern brook
forcing classes for mechanics is ok in my book
frosty wedge
instead of it being instant with rogues
frosty wedge
gross
gray parrot
I dont think Mythic is doable without locks tho
we just dont have them available
we had two locks now...but we probably dont make it to Ghuun in Mythic before 8.1
gray parrot
something like that
oblique garnet
Yup
frosty wedge
I'm curious how much azerite impurity is going to drop in m+ and from srapping
b/c the costs seem high onthe vendor if not a lot is dropping
3250 for specific pieces
deft hinge
the drop rate is going to feel like 'none'
frosty wedge
1250 for 385s
gray parrot
im guessing people would rather just save up and dump a lot for a specific piece
frosty wedge
yeah
gray parrot
rather than run 10x
modern brook
I mean
gray parrot
for RNGesus to bless them
modern brook
they described the objective of it already
The high end stuff is a BLP esque mechanic and the low end stuff is for gearing alts
IDK about the prices themselves
but they're going to try and hold to that as best they can
frosty wedge
I mean, the cost of a 385 is 10x the cost of a 355
so that makes sense
I just mean, if I'm spam running +10s, I'm expecting to be able to gear myself
gray parrot
will 370 be enough to raid normal in the new raid?
modern brook
counter argument: if you're spam running 10's how are you notalready geared
gray parrot
are they going to scale PVP rewards?
frosty wedge
azerite gear bull
my monk got the same 385 chest piece 3 weeks in a row
from the m+ cache
modern brook
I got 385 chest ->370 shoulders w/ dc -> 385 shoulders with dc
M+ cache and i are great friends
frosty wedge
so he was using a 385 and 2x 355s for a while b/c he was stuck at 363 which is 1 ilvl below 370 caches from emisary
my monk has the worst loot luck
modern brook
oh rekt
frosty wedge
I'm 373 now
modern brook
less rekt
modern brook
I still have a 340 shield, if it makes you feel better
And my trinkets are 355 and will never be replaced 😢
355 rezan w/ socket + dmd
frosty wedge
I got my zek weapon yesterday and my overallilvl went up by 3, lol
gray parrot
mine went up almost two levels from getting a 370 shield over my 340
modern brook
^ shields are so fucking important rn
gray parrot
still have some 355 and 365 bs items
modern brook
like those 2 ilvls must've felt like a god-boon
urban walrus
Yeah, trinkets, 6/8M and still use 360 howler
gray parrot
i does feel good....but we couldnt go into mythic after
frosty wedge
yeah.. my monk's only items under 370 are rings and trinkets
modern brook
oof.
sand egret
I magically hit the "you get 370s for Emissaries now" threshold last night, totally got a IF helm to replace my CR one. Feels good
urban walrus
I was surprised how much of an impact the t3 azerite traits made
modern brook
the inner most ones?
oblique garnet
Impassive visage etc
urban walrus
@frosty wedge is victus your guild name by chance?
frosty wedge
nope
oblique garnet
Yikes mike 9% haste?
frosty wedge
hahaha
@urban walrus my name is Mike, and my counterstrike handle was Invictus - Invictus was taken on proudmoore when i started, and one of my clanmates in CS called me Mikevictus all the time
so... it stuck
hushed cobalt
is fathoms a considerable dps boost? im debating making 60 cards and would use one if i got the deck
oblique garnet
Fathoms is good unless you have better options
hushed cobalt
i have the mastery + stacking str proc trink from a world boss. but atm if i dont derp i'm good on living. wondering how much better other trinks would be to out do fathoms overall(str+damage)
modern brook
I'd say Str + Haste buffs would be what you're looking at.
Anything that gives + damage and + surviability
Maybe big vers steroids like sufficiently high howler
vapid loom
how much versa i must have as tank? soft cap
vapid loom
so the highest the better? i know the stats go smth like : Haste >Armor>versa=mastery>crit
stark sage
the stats are close enough that ilvl makes up the difference for poor optimization
chilly brook
^
junior ivy
if i had 1k .io and 380 ilvl, i wont ever get declined from pugs right?
cloud bone
depends are you prot?
cloud bone
prot will always be declined because we're trash in the communities eyes
plain vapor
theres still a negative conotation around prot wars in the pug community
junior ivy
ugh i guess ill just start dpsing all my keys
native monolith
Prot is currently kinda hard to play, so most of Prot Warrs in community are kinda bad, so ppl having bad experiences with prot warrs tend to avoid having dgs with us
Basic Logic
opal olive
will there ever be a prot warrior profile for simcraft?
plain vapor
maybe in time
vapid loom
i got 6 sockets , i believe all go to haste?
plain vapor
yes
junior ivy
6 sockets wtf how
vapid loom
"lucky"
not the stats i like , but still
6 sockets 😄
sorry
8 sockets
i just saw i got 2 more with socket 😄
junior ivy
omg stop
vapid loom
i got 6 as dps and 8 as tank
junior ivy
i got 380 shield
vapid loom
yes you do , but i have 370 with socket 😛
junior ivy
I GOT A 390 HASTE/MASTERY RING 😡
junior ivy
😦
modern brook
all im reading is I need to spend 600 gold to make my equipment up to snuff
junior ivy
😦
junior ivy
i win.
signal plover
Oh booo
signal plover
Fake news scarab lord
vapid loom
haha 😄
signal plover
Yes but just, there's weirdos in here that'll b like gnomes r the best and just, yeah
vapid loom
lol
junior ivy
@signal plover secretly loves gnomes
signal plover
In mAh butt
oblique garnet
its pain in the ass to get good rio on high populated server
vagrant cape
Gnomes get an extra 5 max rage though. That and haste makes them one of the highest dps races for warriir
vagrant cape
@oblique garnet if you're doing 7s and below, or you can only play on weekends/a few days before reset, yeah, it's rough
modern brook
raider io is a meme like that.
My guild raids t/w/th
friday is the first day i can key because i work.
uneven mason
most servers you should be able to build score if you're doing 10+ (which is really where keys start to matter anyway)
you can bully most anything prior to infested
oblique garnet
Well yeah theres still only 67 completed 10 or higher keys this week
in global leaderboards
on time
uneven mason
Yeah pushing timers is the issue
I basically do only guild groups and once we get to 10 I'm always like "so lets push to 11 or 12" and I get the "I just want my chest, lets chill run this"
oblique garnet
Yeah and pugging higher is impossible
uneven mason
Some day I'll get Spinal Tap
oblique garnet
as prot
uneven mason
and These will go to 11
vagrant cape
@oblique garnet https://raider.io/mythic-plus/realms/us/current
Check your server
If you're US, that's the link
What server are you on?
There are two main reasons why a run won't score
And not getting top 500 is the much rarer reason
Unless you play on a super high pop server and have a party that are all on the same server
oblique garnet
Yeah i play on draenor eu
uneven mason
There are some servers
that by the time sunday rolls around the lowest key that will score is +10
but most servers anything over a 5 will score even monday night
vagrant cape
If you complete a +9 of any dungeon on draenir EU it'll score
And there are a few dungeons where a 2 in time will score
uneven mason
Some dungeons where people would rather lick glass than run it
uneven mason
Freehold under 10 is almost an assured +2
chilly brook
It made me sad that Accolonn bought into the “prot warrior is a wet noodle” mantra
chilly brook
He’s a WoW youtuber usually a pretty chill dude
oblique garnet
Never heard of him
uneven mason
Well to be fair, a lot of the time we give that impression
tanking Mythic Zek lastnight, I felt like a wet noodle at times
vagrant cape
So @oblique garnet here's what I think the issue is: you're completing 10+ keys but not in time, so the score you receive from that run is actually lower than your +9 or lower run that was done in time. Since the score isn't a new high score for that dungeon, it doesn't add to your raider.io and won't be listed as your best run of that type.
oblique garnet
Depends the only key i havent completed on time on +10 or higher is shrine
oblique garnet
Not all of them
uneven mason
Right but completing the key isn't the point
beaing your time*keylevel
so like a out of time 10
vagrant cape
Hm. If they were done Monday/tuesday night on really easy weeks I could see them not registering on a high pop realm.
uneven mason
is going to rank lower than your +2 8
oblique garnet
i said on time
vagrant cape
He said the only 10+ not in time was shrine
Sorry, they, I don't know Kate's pronouns
Late*
vagrant cape
So the only two options are that you have something a +9 2/3 chest that has a higher score than a +10 1-chest
Or the leader boards were full
oblique garnet
Yeah could be that
vagrant cape
Yeah, atal and freehold seem to be the most popular dungeons
I'd recommend pugging someone from a low pop realm
So you can get on their boards
oblique garnet
Eh im on boards with 9+ on both of them atleast
vagrant cape
Strive for perfection
oblique garnet
True
vagrant cape
And get the runs that you deserve
I just wish blizz would incorporate something like this ingame so we don't have to deal with this janky stuff
oblique garnet
ill probably form a team at some point so i can push keys since theres not much else to do for me atm
vagrant cape
Same. It feels like people that aren't hardcore raiders are dropping like flies or quitting until 8.1 when their actions will actually have meaningful consequences
I'm still passively angry about azerite
oblique garnet
im 378 without doing more than taloc and mother on mythic purely because i played m+ way more than the rest ouf my guildmates
And since they just gave up after heroic im been looking for a guild that looks for a tank for mythic progression
junior ivy
modern brook
God thats disgusting
modern brook
for halloween yeah
primal crypt
that is terrifying
astral hare
which trait is better for tanking in Uldir, Laser matrix or Archive of Titans?
astral crystal
i roll with archive, thoug him not sure which is optimal at this point
junior ivy
i heard archive is better but i dunno
i want archive cause apaprently its good for raid and m+
laser matrix is only good for raid
amber apex
how are there still people alive in this thread? O.O
astral hare
archive gives str => armor but laser matrix does heal and damage. @junior ivy I think both work on m+ also
astral hare
@amber apex I bet you are speaking about time 😉 this channel never dies
4%..that is quite much tho
amber apex
i'm too big of a pussy to play warrior rn, getting him prepped though
i've been skeezin :/
chilly brook
I mean I enjoy my warrior
But I’m getting my blood DK up to 120 tonight for m+
Because I’m tired of dealing with the community bs for that crap
astral hare
weak souls level up DK (joke)
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
astral hare
@junior ivy why would matrix be only good for raid? 5k healing is 5k healing also in 5man group 😃
junior ivy
dunno, just what someone in here told me
junior ivy
i was doing a normal temple dungeon on my horde mage forgot it wasnt as geared as my alliance and tried to pull like everyhting at once in 2nd boss room 😦
neon tangle
@chilly brook I'm prolly gonna boost a pally tank as a backup for next season
since the nerfs to BDK seem like it's going to hurt them in raids more than m+
and I mainly want to be a raid tank
too big of a risk to only have prot warrior available tho
gray wolf
isn't 8.1 next season?
neon tangle
yes
last mason
do you guys think its worth picking up prot now, or waiting till 8.1 and IP off the gcd
frosty wedge
I currently have 5 tanks above 360, lol
Monk, BDK, Warr, Pally, Druid , lol
Warr is/will always be my main, but thus far in BFA I've been playing monk/BDK for raid/M+
mostly because no one wants to take my warrior to things
lol
candid vine
@last mason I'm pretty salty about current state of prot after enjoying it for all of Legion. If I wasn't 375 and the raid main tank I would probably be leveling my pally instead :P the class works well enough but feels clunky with IP on GCD
frosty wedge
@last mason worth picking up now and trudging through so you're geared enough for 8.1 content
neon tangle
@last mason I'm a little nervous, but i'm already 372 on my prot, plus az levels on the neck, etc
If you want it for 8.1 now's the time to start, especially if you have a guild willing to run m+ with you
If you're gonna pug it will suck, nobody wants to bring prot, even if they're geared
brave vine
warrior just needs 100% healer love during gaps in mitigation
which is a shame
if you get that it's business as usual
frosty wedge
yeah i was pulling nearly 80k on fetid trash in a heroic pug last week
good times, lol
candid vine
The AOE dps is amazing lol. In the first 20sec of heroic Zul I was top 5 dps
oblique garnet
matrix is bad for m+ because it will pull everything
oblique garnet
i have had the most unluckiest interractions with laser matrix
stark sage
it only hits stuff you are engaged with
oblique garnet
yeah no thats bs unless they have fixed it this week
young harbor
im with Late on this one, i have seen it pull shit
stark sage
i've been stuck using LM on my chest for a few months now
young harbor
unless theres another crazy ability with disco lasers
stark sage
the only dungeon i have had issue with pulling stuff accidentally is been in siege
the first area
and i dont think it is due to LM
young harbor
motherlode after first boss i have seen it pull a few times, either that or the dh with it proxy pulled at the exact same time
(possible)
oblique garnet
Ive had issues in Tol dagor and manor where it just pulls through the walls
young harbor
eek