holy shit, vek finally dropped a weapon for my monk
#protection
frosty wedge
neon tangle
BC was too long ago
supple path
stormherald was 2h
lusty grotto
stormherald was 2h
frosty wedge
lusty grotto
mace
supple path
supple path
Yeah I used that on my shaman for said priest exploding. Great weapon, great times.
frosty wedge
stunheraldOP
lusty grotto
i used that so much since i never got cthun axe
supple path
Though man everything back then was so broken.
frosty wedge
oh dude - the most fun shit ever in vanilla were trash drops - I had this 2H axe from AQ40 trash that had a shadow dmg proc
supple path
I remember my awesome 2v2 strat of "Okay so my warrior partner is a tauren, so he'll melee the enemy through the coffin on lordaeron using his greater melee range, and then we'll kite so they can't melee back"
frosty wedge
but... the proc could proc windfury and windfury could proc the proc
so... I routinely got lucky strings and insta-gibbed people in BGs
lusty grotto
real men had Ashkandi
supple path
Real, real men were using an arcanite reaper while listening to the Pat pvp video on loop and screaming "CHARGE" in shout over and over.
frosty wedge
I may or may not have had a "/yell charge cast charge" or w/e macro in vanilla
I also had a mage that had /yell <harry potter spell encantation> for every spell
sand egret
2h WF shaman with Sulfuras. The GGOAT
frosty wedge
mana shield? PROTEGO
sand egret
still one of the best wow montages of all time
lusty grotto
this fucking thing https://www.wowhead.com/item=21134/dark-edge-of-insanity
sand egret
DEoI, man we had some drama over that one.
lusty grotto
there was one horde warrior that had it, i fucking hated him
sand egret
the ol' "hunter weapon"
neon tangle
I'm still bummed that they nerfed the sprint/parachute thing in warsong gulch
supple path
Though really vanilla pvp was about who had the bigger stack of bizarre consumables and CD items that let you auto-win pvp encounters.
neon tangle
loved launching myself across the whole map w/ the flag
frosty wedge
did anyone else have the shield that was a trash drop from naxx?
frosty wedge
so... best flag carrier shield ever: https://www.wowhead.com/item=23238/stygian-buckler
supple path
I mean god - my shaman wore a bp that gave melee attackers a 5% chance to fall asleep per attack.
sand egret
that the fear one?
frosty wedge
nope, the slow one
sand egret
ahh right
frosty wedge
chance on struck to slow attackers by 50%
sand egret
yeah that's what im thinking of
neon tangle
vanilla was all kinda of weird and broken, IIRC the BiS helm for druids was some lvl 40 blue quest reward
sand egret
doesn't surprise me, druids lived and died by spirit
sand egret
oh damn, just read that tooltip I dont remember that one but haha
neon tangle
https://www.ownedcore.com/forums/world-of-warcraft/world-of-warcraft-guides/158212-improve-your-feral-dps-level-40-helmet.html <- someone in BC still using the helm
old wow was a wacky place
supple path
If they didn't want mages to one shot themselves on fire reflector trinkets, they wouldn't have made mage players so stupid. (GOD I MISS IT)
bronze lance
Ok so I made the post in the patch class discussion as Prot Warrior Mastery/New skill
has the new mastery idea, arena skill idea, and then my personal chains skill, shockwave skill change, and thunderclap addition change
lusty grotto
link link
lusty grotto
i pressed like
bronze lance
thank you!
lusty grotto
like brigading shh
woeful otter
Having trouble with rage management on single target any advice?
lusty grotto
stop spamming rage spenders
use demo and avatar more
prioritize SB
logs would help
woeful otter
tbh it feels like IP is useless unless you have SB on cd, am i right ?
lusty grotto
you shouldn't Spam IP unless taking too much consistent magic damage
woeful otter
yeah ok
woeful otter
btw bolster says it allows us to block dmg during last stand
woeful otter
by what % ?
lusty grotto
almost mandatory
limber wigeon
Only use ip when you have block up.
bronze lance
100% block chance
lusty grotto
same rules as SB apply
woeful otter
Some spells specify block chance and others don't
what is the difference between 123% block and 100% block?
like how does it scale beyond 100%
lusty grotto
block rating or block value?
woeful otter
block chance 123%, reduces dmg of attack by 35%
that's my tooltip with SB/ LS
otherwise it's 23% and 35%
woeful otter
limber wigeon
Block value is just added armor from your shield.
woeful otter
oh so my shield's 3522 block value translates into 35.86 % ?
lusty grotto
block mitigation % = block rating / (block rating + K)
woeful otter
ok but what is the difference between 100% block chance and 123% block chance? I mean is it practically the same ?
limber wigeon
Yes, because the extra 3522 armor translates into 35% less damage taken when added to your base armor.
stark sage
@woeful otter yes during block and last stand you will block all hits
limber wigeon
Block chance over 100 is useless.
woeful otter
if you block
The shield already gives armor
AND block
so if you block you get that additional 35% reduction
otherwise it's just my standard 52%
supple path
Above 100 hedges against higher level enemies I think, so yeah in practice it's pointless.
woeful otter
Right.
stark sage
@woeful otter the mitigations are multiplicative so it will have some diminishing returns, but essentially yeah
woeful otter
yeah so it's not 52% + 35% i = 87%
it's more like 52% initial reduction and from the remaning you remove 35%
lusty grotto
huh
woeful otter
so if you should take 100 dmg, first it gets reduced to 48 and then to 31
not 13 dmg
stark sage
yes
stark sage
we are talking about stacking mitigations
woeful otter
is armor reduction computed first or block
stark sage
it doesnt matter
woeful otter
ah ok
stark sage
multiplication can be done in any order
woeful otter
yeah it's associative π
supple path
Though for reference it sure seems like the armor is computed first.
Just because of how messages display.
limber wigeon
Again, block is just added base armor to an attack. I'm like 99% sure that's how they changed it for this expansion.
supple path
It literally shows up in your combat log as a blocked amount, so...similar mechanics, but clearly not identical to armor.
woeful otter
nice tbh i just did a m+4 for the first time of my life as a tank
and it wan't bad
I dont think prot warriors suck
Maybe they're harder than others
supple path
it feels like we're about 2 levels worse than a BDK. E.g. a 10 for us is about as hard as a 12 for them
woeful otter
and the idea that no amount of ilvl can outperform a deafening crash trait is horrible ;p
strong forum
so which should i take?
woeful otter
how long do i have to keep my 330 helm on
strong forum
DC outperforms ilvl in m+
woeful otter
I think they're both about the same
supple path
go get yourself a 340 from a m0 like a boss, hairy.
strong forum
on raid its like 25ilvl
lusty grotto
395 might be better
strong forum
im guessing the 395 for prot and 390s for arms
lusty grotto
yeah that sounds good
supple path
My first 3 380+ items were all pants.
strong forum
our 380 DK is running 330 pvp trinket cuz its better than 395 syringe
strong forum
just buff them in general
woeful otter
like give them something like reorigination array or w.e
lusty grotto
mother helm though π
strong forum
its like 300dps trinket
strong forum
ye got mother helm twice kek one for arms one for prot
well he does summon the tendril in phase 1
and thats the one you get as pet from trinket
i tested it, i had 1 spawn in 1 minute and it did literally only like 5k dmg
fucking meme tier loot
lusty grotto
but ghuun helm might be better for arms
strong forum
well you have to run 1 archive
strong forum
so mother helmet is best option for that
hexed lion
Hey so zekvos - Rollin deceits, is there a grace period you have as the player dropping it to move out? or is it pretty much instant
lusty grotto
i know i'm running it as arms
strong forum
like 2 seconds geo
if you drop it you have like 2 seconds to move out of it again
on mythic that is
woeful otter
if it were instant it'd be undoable
lusty grotto
it's pretty forgiving
hexed lion
is that solid? so e.g our mage blinks out is in surging darkness, ice blocks to save but pops it when moving out
2 seconds then
strong forum
its defo possible
woeful otter
afaik cloak and IB totally remove deceit and don't drop on the ground
strong forum
but blinking into surging is kinda stupid
theres always room to drop it off
if you do it properly without trying to meme it
strong forum
youre not supposed to ye
strong forum
theres always room to drop it off safely
woeful otter
memeing it is doing it like a wannabe pro
strong forum
is what i mean
strong forum
how else is the 1st rolling deceit going to be possible
hexed lion
bit aids
woeful otter
that's why tank might need to move boss
finite quail
If it in a bad spot just pop it during the time nothing is going on
carmine ibex
finally I got a 370 DC piece from an emissary
astral crystal
grats meng
strong forum
anybody tested if thunderfury works on raid bosses in uldir?
frosty wedge
that would be hilarious
strong forum
well it does proc on every ability i do
and i can still pull some decent dps with it
imagine thunderfury being BiS all of a sudden
on fetid or smth
frosty wedge
offtank on fetid w/ a thunderfury, lol
frosty wedge
my weap is only 370 :p
frosty wedge
what the hell is qith this queue?
strong forum
hopefully get it from fetid on sunday
prisma crane
the biggest hit you'll see with a shitty weapon is to your IP
prisma crane
as a % that's probably like 15
prisma crane
about 17
strong forum
its fine, you get hit 20% less
prisma crane
18%
strong forum
:topkek:
strong forum
would defo be worth on fetid
prisma crane
mhm
strong forum
just wanna see if it actually procs
prisma crane
it slows attack speed right?
strong forum
yea
prisma crane
so it'd also help the OT
20% less thrashes
it'll 100% not work
but funny if it could
prisma crane
you could have one dps put it as their OH and it'll drop tank dmg by 20% to both tanks
i seriously doubt it works lmao
strong forum
will test on sunday on progress and will tell you of my tale
the tale of a classic weapon being better than current weapons
junior ivy
why do people do lfr
strong forum
to test if thunderfury procs the atk spd slow or not
junior ivy
ohh
frosty wedge
also, doesn't it boost your array?
strong forum
you can only get 1 stack per week
frosty wedge
ah ok
sand egret
NR effect works, but I think it's inert
since I don't think resistances are even a thing anymore
in terms of a mobs stat profile
frosty wedge
yeah
candid vine
Do you guys think the minor buffs to power, and removing IP from GCD is gonna make the class playable again? I've been leveling a 112 prot pally alt and it seems a lot smoother rotation-wise
lusty grotto
what do you mean? it's playable right now
supple path
I'd say it should definitely increase the funfactor.
I'm planning on having about 14% more fun post-patch.
lusty grotto
dunno man, if its playstyle choices you're after your best bet is to hop on ptr and test it
stark sage
a lot of people have fallen out of love with prot since legion, the changes are going to make a world of difference in terms of how the spec feels to play
numbers wise it will help but its already okay
lusty grotto
but word of caution: spamming IP will not save you the same way it did in legion
supple path
But our actual power-level will likely remain at the "fine for raids, adequate for m+ but still a tier below the best tanks".
prisma crane
@candid vine the changes are minor as far as surv goes, you'll see it more in raids than M+, as far as feel it'll feel nicer, but that's about it
the biggest change is blockable range attacks
supple path
you'll see all these prot warriors signing up for tol dagor en masse.
so they can scream "FUCK YOU ROCK" over and over.
prisma crane
we still horribly lack in the utility department for M+ to keep us up with the others
prisma crane
what we truly need now at a minimum is an increase in rage gen in ST situations
we're getting 1/3rd of what we did in T20-T21
and it shows
cinder nova
It's almost hilarious because now with the IP change
You can starve and fuck yourself
candid vine
It seems like ignore pain does nothing compared to Legion
supple path
Well we straight generated too much rage before I'd say, it got to a very silly point, and we'll definitely have our rage increase as haste/etc. goes up.
cinder nova
So it's even more punishing
prisma crane
IP actually does the same % of your HP as it did in legion
supple path
but still does feel like...25% too low on single targets maybe?
cinder nova
One more mistake on the pile of potential ruinous
prisma crane
so the EHP gain it gives is more or less the same
lusty grotto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-wOQSUWQk instead of this it should be piss of rock!
prisma crane
the difference is that we cannot spam it and the cap is MUCH lower
candid vine
@prisma crane seriously? Why does it feel so much weaker then. Is it because it's on the GCD now?
lusty grotto
legion ip was 90%, bfa ip is 50%
supple path
And also that you were using it 4x as often in legion
cinder nova
Also because shit hits harder
prisma crane
it's because you cant hit it twice per global while having the rage to do so
wide forge
but ultimately its still the same % of your life being absorbed so long as your not being 1 shot your still absorbing roughly the same 90% vs 50% isnt a huge deal reduced cap much bigger deal
prisma crane
yea, now healers just have less overheals on us
and if we had a form of our bracers back, it'd overheal less as well
supple path
In legion on trivial content I actually deliberately stopped using ignore pain because it would sabotage healer parses, heh.
Could hit #1 on healmeters on farm content np by just stealing all the healing with a proactive absorb.
And yeah, it was just the absurd amount of rage generation + how often we could use.
prisma crane
stopping IP nerfed yourself,
you gimped your AM
i could give a fuck less about healers parsing off me
if healers wanna parse, then need to either solo heal or play with shitty players that take unnecssary dmg lol
supple path
Meh, I could dump most of my rage with revenge anyhow, just weaving in a weak IP every 6s for the buff.
Outside of battlecry
prisma crane
at 25ish RPS, i was near cap all the time
supple path
But yeah, I mean, did you notice the 8 disclaimers about farm content there.
supple path
I had my 99 parses already.
prisma crane
it's about that 100
supple path
hah
supple path
I just assumed some mythic titanforged dbag had that on lock.
prisma crane
often it's people who hvae raids that help
in aoe
and in ST fast kill times
but better play and builds helped
going all in on damage when survival becomes trivial is personally a lot of fun
supple path
I actually am so glad I'm not a healer, their parse situation is absurd - everyone seems to care about them while not really processing that there is a finite amount of damage.
"omg ur parse was terrible" "but no one died?" "who cares lul bad parse"
candid vine
@prisma crane so IP off GCD will make IP feel way more powerful again then
prisma crane
no it wont
supple path
"Can" doesn't mean "should" though.
Like the good healers I played with would just shrug and start DPSing at that point.
prisma crane
it'll make it feel less shitty when you use it because you'd normally nearly rage cap
the IP change, in ST situations is strictly going to be a "feel" thing
candid vine
But we'll be able to get more devastates in also
prisma crane
and you'll have a few more globals for devastate and thus slightly more chances for SS procs
but devastate isnt exactly something i was crying to hit more often
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
candid vine
It feels terrible now because devastate and ip are competing for gcd
supple path
It will make it "feel" a bit more powerful though just because you're never in a situation where you have rage and can't IP without messing stuff up.
prisma crane
but that's not power, that's less clunky
it'll just feel like you can use it when you want to again
supple path
Allowing you to IP without delaying a shield slam is a power boost
Not like a HUGE one but non-zero
supple path
Yeah I'd guess it'll end up mathing out to like 5% more rage or something
prisma crane
and i''m all for the change, just not writing home about it
supple path
but who knows.
candid vine
I agree mathematically it's not a big change but I think it's gonna feel a fuckload better
supple path
The extent of my PTR testing was log in, kill a mob, hit ignore pain while hitting tclap during avatar, say, "THIS IS GOOD." then log off.
prisma crane
Basically that, Hark
candid vine
If they also take demo shout off gcd.. it's gonna make those dungeon pulls so much smoother
supple path
It'll also really streamline the "heroic leap + charge away while hitting ignore pain and screaming, 'NO PLEASE I WISH I HAD BONESTORM'" m+ strategy.
prisma crane
Let's not get ahead of ourselves
I'll take reflective plating or 50% slow on tclap back over no GCD DS
supple path
50% slow on tlcap would really cut down on the intense hatred in my heart when I invite a mage to a group and they show up fire.
prisma crane
Or for some synergy, make tclaps slow an additional 30% for 6 sec or something after DS falls off a target
supple path
DS leaving a lingering snare would be amazing.
prisma crane
That way we do our thing for dmg and threat with the dr from DS and then room to kite if we choose
supple path
yesx100
sick sentinel
feels fine to me.
supple path
Having a non-dimi'ing AE stun was the thing I had that made me feel like I was BETTER than other tanks at some stuff.
Well differently-dimi'ing, whatever
digital arrow
what's dimi'ing?
supple path
diminishing returns
cinder nova
He means DR.
digital arrow
ooooh
cinder nova
I'll point out like... nobody calls it dimi so
candid vine
He's speaking elvish
supple path
yeahyeah.
junior ivy
lol
supple path
been calling it that for 10 years.
cinder nova
Speaking his realm vernacular maybe
supple path
Not stopping now because people love abbreviations.
cinder nova
Just call it DR lol
candid vine
Seems like a pretty "dim" way to abbrevate it tbh
cinder nova
Diminishing Returns
junior ivy
be nice to censuras
digital arrow
warbringer was always a badass name for a warrior skill
supple path
Yeah, try to get an "ing" in there for when you're talking about whether something diminishes!
DRing? I HATES IT
cinder nova
Just call it DR
digital arrow
damage reduction or diminishing returns π€
supple path
That's dragon's roar that is
digital arrow
lol
cinder nova
You can determine meaning on context.
That's how like a shitload of latin languages work
And asian
prisma crane
Context isn't difficult lol
cinder nova
Same word changes on inflection
"The mage DR'd his poly on me, we can go for kill"
"My DR slowed that pack of mobs so I can kite."
cinder nova
Grammar can be safely eschewed when discussing things in common parlance.
digital arrow
lol @ shitload of latin languages
cinder nova
Don't be a goober.
supple path
I've literally never had an actual problem with saying dimi, and I don't really think I ever will.
So just gonna keep doing that forever.
supple path
But I love ghost-bustin'
cinder nova
THIS IS DUMB. YOU'RE DUMB. STOP THINKING THINGS I DON'T THINK
- every internet disagreement ever
digital arrow
we wont let you get away with it cenuras!!!! shakes fist
cinder nova
Didn't you say you had a bunch of folks carry you in that last night?
What happened to that
They flake
junior ivy
ended up doing uldir achievements
digital arrow
finds way to delete atrocious raider io score
supple path
Well if you spell it wrong of course it'll be silly.
cinder nova
(I'm intentionally not using the correct punctuation to ruffle Cen's feathers)
supple path
FEATHERS AT MAXIMUM RUFFLE
cinder nova
I wish I could just have everything I type be written in papyrus and capitalize the first letter in each word
Just to give Censuras a stroke
supple path
I'm not above sending someone an e-mail in wingding.
junior ivy
I Used To Know A Guy On WoW Who Typed Like This ..
cinder nova
See, I never got why people get shitty over wingding.
candid vine
Shal'dorei
Quael'thalas
Dim'ing
cinder nova
It's obviously a silly font
Papyrus takes itself seriously.
And that's the worst part of it.
supple path
There was a guy like that on my EQ server, Catfriend. He went by "Gobfather" and also referred to himself in the third-person. I like to think everyone else who types like that is actually the same person.
digital arrow
LOL
cinder nova
@candid vine I HAD A RAID LEAD IN VANILLA PRONOUNCE C'THUN SEE-THOON
I WANTED TO PEEL MY FACE OFF
junior ivy
I'm Not Surprised Someone Who Typed Like This Also Referred To Himself In Third Person
cinder nova
cat stop
sand egret
Bladesong is very confused by this.
cinder nova
you're triggering me with my own troll
supple path
See: thulhu. See thulhu sleep. See thulhu wake.
junior ivy
i say see-thun like thun rhymes with run
cinder nova
I'll kill you.
digital arrow
pocky is hungry. he bids you all farewell
cinder nova
Good.
junior ivy
but inside my head, thast how itd said
cinder nova
Archimonde pronounced like archway
what are some other real fucking teethgrinders
Aegis.
candid vine
You're grammer is so good
cinder nova
It's ee-jis
junior ivy
PEOPLE SERIOUSLY LOOKING FOR 1.1K .IO FOR +10S?
cinder nova
But I hear ay-gus or ay-gis
dudewhat lol
I got into a +12 last week with 505
We didn't key, shockingly
prisma crane
Got a friend who says ig-not for ingot
supple path
You're always gonna have a certain % of the population that wants you to have cleared heroic to join their normal, and m+ is the same way.
cinder nova
And you killed him, right?
One of my old DMs for D&D used to say Knowledge LOCALE even though Local and Locale are separate words.
sand egret
to be honest, I spent a vast majority of my life pronouncing "moniker" as "monkier"
prisma crane
No point Lmao i just call them ignots now cuz it's funny
supple path
I think melee remains the word the most people struggle with.
cinder nova
It was a shitshow
cinder nova
What does he say
junior ivy
my friend back in junior high school saw horseradish on a restaurant menu and said "whats hor-sarah-dish" pronounced like that
junior ivy
i think i might say melk hahaha im trying to picture how i say it.. i think canadians might say melk
cinder nova
D'ya like dags?
prisma crane
There a YouTuber who did a video on that one. Can't remember his name swole
junior ivy
i hate when people pronounce pillow like pellow
oh and i KNOW i apparently say bagel weird and its an east coast canada accent thing
cinder nova
In the 70s poutine on the east coast used to be called disco fries
brittle timber
now you're just fussing over accents instead of full on mispronunciations
cinder nova
But that was in the US
brittle timber
disco fries sounds fun
junior ivy
i haven't had poutine in forever now i want some
cinder nova
There's an irish pub near my work called The Stout
and it has this horrible bastardization of poutine
With corned beef hash and fries
It's so bad for you, but it's so tasty
I don't even care what my cholesterol says
junior ivy
yeah ive been to a lot of places with really complicated poutines
like adding turkey and stuffing and other thanksgiving stuff
or all kinds of extra meats
cinder nova
That's unnecessary
I'll be honest I don't like turkey because sedatives makes me edgy
junior ivy
turkey is just kind of boring
cinder nova
Same reason I don't like getting pissed when I drink
junior ivy
for the first time ever, i am dpsing a pug +10 key ......
neon tangle
what's with irish places in the US serving corned beef hash
junior ivy
ty
neon tangle
I saw it zero times when I was in ireland
junior ivy
im flaskin for this
cinder nova
Corned beef is a very recognizable and familiar dish that's very tasty to a lot of Americans.
It's by no means iconic to the irish, but it is very familiar to Americans, so it's the default go-to.
Same reason whenever people think america they think burgers
Or hot dogs
neon tangle
@sick sentinel I mostly find it funny that it's considered "irish" since nobody seems to eat it there
vs. burgers or hot dogs in the US which are actually eaten / common
junior ivy
i hope my dps isnt lowest
cinder nova
Well, considering the owner is an 1st gen irish immigrant
junior ivy
i hope its in the middle
cinder nova
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
junior ivy
i also really hope my dps isnt highest cause thatd be a terrible sign
but if my dps is in the middle im gonna be hapy
happy*
supple path
Which key?
cinder nova
Getting beaten by a clown in a dress with a magic stick
Step it up
STEP π IT π UP π
brittle timber
at least you're beating that silly warrior that thought some priests would teach him something
neon tangle
- man I wish I did 8k single target
- wow that's a bad pally
- How does it feel to not be the one holding back a key?
sick sentinel
smh
oblique garnet
Is the last boss in shrine bugged?
each of the call of the abyss adds spawned with explosive
quiet crane
Hey all just wondering and I know this is a hard one to answer since itβs mainly up to bias. But does anyone here feel like to many of prot warrβs abilities feel conflicted with others because of the GCD changes? Such as things as IP? And does this t better with haste I canβt tell completely atm as itβs my last tank to level but does it get better with Azerite and or higher haste levels?
Feels extremely clunky and you have to put a lot more effort in to make sure you arnt just shat on randomly
stark sage
well good news buddy, IP is coming off the GCD in 8.1
quiet crane
Can I have a link to these changes or are they in the pins?
neon tangle
"Feels extremely clunky and you have to put a lot more effort in to make sure you arnt just shat on randomly" <- this is very accurate of current prot, even at higher ilvls
neon tangle
but yeah, check pins, we're getting buffs in 8.1
quiet crane
Ok cheers you fellas Iβll have a look at them now
neon tangle
Nothing yet on the utility front, just IP off the GCD and some more buffs to our survivability
junior ivy
omg no freehold or motherlode or kings rest keys in group finder π¦
what ilvl do +7s drop
quiet crane
Well it definitely feels to be a step in the right direction will at least alleviate the clash in my opinion between revenges expenditure and IP
Itβll be nice to do them almost simultaneous due to the 0.5 gcd
neon tangle
@quiet crane I think it will make avatar cycles feel a lot better
and prolly help a bit for AoE packs in m+
neon tangle
^^^ It's just a small CD so that you don't accidentally double-hit it
oblique garnet
Avoid shrine this week
oblique garnet
The small adds in the last boss each spawned with explosive
brittle timber
the small small ones? that sounds awful
quiet crane
The eels? Or do you mean tentacles before third?
vocal nimbus
Wasnt that hotfixed
oblique garnet
The adds that the boss calls
oblique garnet
Yup
quiet crane
I hope itβs been hotfixed
brittle timber
i thought it was the big squid dudes you gotta interrupt when i first heard that
supple path
No luck ranging or LoSing it?
dunno how the water actually works for that in that room.
quiet crane
That would be just as bad Sam
It should of you go down into the wayer
Water
Not on its surface
oblique garnet
Well yeah all those 3 adds that you have to interrupt etc also spawned with explosive but thats not that big of an issue
But when the small adds that are spread far all spawn with one too when you are trying to kite away/outrange them they keep spawning more and more
heady citrus
best was spores in last boss in underrrot was spawning orbs
it was amazing
500 + explosive orbs
upbeat folio
Can anyone clarify some of the recent changes - did we get ANOTHER buff to vanguard or are the recent notes just a tooltip update from our hotfix?
upbeat folio
Thanks @amber siren
So we lost a lot of DC uptime and got 5% more to vanguard and IP off the GCD?
neon tangle
and an increase to SB uptime
upbeat folio
2 second recharge time buff? Is that right?
neon tangle
yes
upbeat folio
Seems like a good start. Mixed feelings about DC, but we all probably saw that coming from implementation.
amber siren
Yeah and we can also block physical ranged attacks e.g. thrown rocks
neon tangle
@upbeat folio yeah, I think we were all hoping for a bit more, especially on the utility for the m+ front
brittle timber
I think for 'utility' we just want some kind of displacement ability, right?
cinder nova
I don't.
Displacement is pretty ugly
They need to give us back enraged regen
Let us just manmode some stuff for a few seconds
neon tangle
No clue what the real answer is, I just know that the other tanks have stuff they bring to groups, we.... largely don't
we're mobile, but less mobile than a DH, we have an AoE stun, but less good than the DH, etc
upbeat folio
They made projectiles blockable?
raven kernel
Tank dh has no stun
brittle timber
but they have a ranged aoe silence, a mass grip
raven kernel
Shockwave is one of the lowest cd aoe stuns if I'm not wrong
brittle timber
it's lower than monk spin kick for sure
raven kernel
If not the lowest
scenic mica
Were there more prot changes other than what we got 2 days ago
raven kernel
No
neon tangle
maybe it'll shake out a lil' more evenly with some DK nerfs
hard to look at stats, etc when they are so much of the leaderboards
brittle timber
demon hunters increase enemy magic damage taken?
neon tangle
5% yeah
brittle timber
i knew about monk mystic touch but not that one
it's not even a lack of prot warrior utility, it's a warrior problem overall
battle and commanding shout are it for arms/fury
sacred roost
Best azerite still DFand 2x BFI?
neon tangle
@brittle timber It doesn't really help that a lot of "utility" is really just tools to deal with caster mobs, and us + guardian don't have much on that front
if DK was just "has a brez" it wouldn't be nearly as much of an issue
hollow kite
so i got 2 azerite pieces same IL with iron fortress, winds of war, and vamp seed or should i go with bloodsport, azerite veins, impassive visage
neon tangle
does avengers shield interupt casting on all 3 mobs?
brittle timber
Mostly i'm just remembering a really bad experience in siege of boralus with sanguine and no way to move the riflemen
@neon tangle no, just the first one
neon tangle
yeah sanguine is particularly painful for non-DKs
but whatever, blizz seems fairly content with having a "good for m+" class
if I want to do more m+ I'll roll a DK
raven kernel
I actually hate having a frost mage on sanguine week
upbeat folio
Sanguine is ridiculous this expansion.
There's so much more trash overall and the spaces are narrower.
raven kernel
Yeah many narrow dungeons
upbeat folio
It went from being one of the least impactful to one of the most, just based on context.
raven kernel
Even motherlode is "narrow" if you don't want to pull adds
upbeat folio
I had this moment earlier where I was looking at one of the instance +3 chest timers and was like "can I even physically move from one end to the other in this time?"
neon tangle
I missed a timer on siege last week, even with an amazing group, just due to the number of "hey look a random mob is sitting in sanguine and there's nowhere to LoS with
brittle timber
even a mistweaver can boop them out of sangquine
upbeat folio
I've been moonlighting as a DK this last week and some of the quality of life differences are tremendous, just based on death grip.
raven kernel
Sadly most good dps dks can also play blood
upbeat folio
But even on my DK, something like sanguine wayrcrest or sanguine SOTS is infuriating.
raven kernel
And will just tank their own m+
Well every tank has their own strengths
Although on dh I feel pretty mediocre
upbeat folio
Sure - I mean, most BrM can hit keg smash and then every so often their cat can walk across the keyboard and hit stoneskin and they're gtg. that's a strength.
That was obvious hyperbole, before anyone comes after me.
neon tangle
@raven kernel Yeah... hard to say what it would look like with DK in a less OP spot
for m+
upbeat folio
Haven't DKs always been that way in M+, though? Even before BfA.
A lot of their tool kit is just very good for the style of gameplay.
raven kernel
Yes
upbeat folio
Sort of how like Monks have always been fairly strong raid tanks. It's just their core mechanics.
raven kernel
And it wouldn't be fair to dks to nerf their utility
Their grips is a core part of dk identity
neon tangle
I do think that the really close / narrow dungeons + crazy amount of control over positioning is.... kinda silly
neon tangle
@raven kernel If they had some amount of tradeoff for that I could maybe get it
raven kernel
So it's an actual choice of making a tradeoff when selecting a dk tank
brittle timber
Aren't bdk's losing a ton of hp in 8.1?
neon tangle
no
neon tangle
they are giving dps DK 10% more stam
subtle egret
God Id kill for 1% of bonestorm's heal π¦
brittle timber
the way i read it was, that passive is changing to 10% hp and going to all 3 specs
neon tangle
but cause of how the auras worked out, it applies a blood-only buff that raises it back up to 60%
brittle timber
down from 60% for blood
okay
so a bonestorm heal nerf, and a boneshield armor buff
neon tangle
and they lost 15% passive armor buff
raven kernel
Yea
neon tangle
and afaik the boneshield armor buff doens't make up for it
brittle timber
so i missed that
raven kernel
Hardly affects them still
merry cave
Don't nerf grip just give mass grip to all tanks or no tanks
Single mob grip isnt that broken
It's the aoe one that causes balance issues in m+
neon tangle
well, and the absurdity of bonestorm
upbeat folio
Bonestorm is pretty tight.
merry cave
The dk nerfs hit them for raids not m+ which is laughable
raven kernel
They should give us a grab-throw ability
upbeat folio
They capped the bonestorm healing to 15% per second, which seems like all it did was cap its absurdity.
neon tangle
nobody else gets a 1-minute, 150% of your health CD
raven kernel
And a vacuum shout
subtle egret
Bonestorm on paper makes me think that a DK would have to try hard to die during trash pulls
neon tangle
I mean, it's only 10s
upbeat folio
@subtle egret That's not far from the truth, but setting up for bonestorm takes a second.
neon tangle
and yeah you gotta cap your runic power
merry cave
I want a shout that has shared cd, one knocks mobs out one forces them to run at you incapacitated (no magic no range spells etc)
No chance of getting it
upbeat folio
But I have definitely used some sub-optimal bonestorms, just to get it rolling at a desperate moment.
raven kernel
Last stand with bolster is ridiculous on some packs, let's not short change ourselves
neon tangle
not wrong about that
upbeat folio
My issue is honestly not the performance with the warrior class -- I feel confident tackling all content, it's the perception of the community. As someone that chiefly pugs, this is very problematic.
It's a slog for me to get groups above 10 - first world problems, I know.
But it's the only content I do so it matters to me.
raven kernel
Sadly community perception won't change unless we are overtuned
neon tangle
That's not gonna change until either warriors are easier to play, or there's a reason to risk taking us
subtle egret
God Id kill to just get a 8+ group
upbeat folio
@subtle egret My best advice is to push your own key if you're having trouble getting in that range. It gives you authority and agency.
neon tangle
Most of the people I know who care about progression already moved to other tanks
or unsubbed lol
subtle egret
Iv unsubbed and came right back in 2 weeks >.>
I need my crack and I got nothing else to do
neon tangle
I mean, I semi-care, but it's certainly a bit of a bummer right now
when I was stuck pugging I was pretty close to unsubbing
merry cave
Only two things will help wars with m+ perception now it's been to long.
- they get played a ton at mdi
- they are blatantly super broken for a while then the nerfs don't get perceived as too bad
raven kernel
^
upbeat folio
I don't follow MDI. I'm sure it will all be DKs, won't it?
raven kernel
We literally need to be OPAF for a while
For community to recognise hey prot is pretty good
neon tangle
It doesnβt help that a lot of people who care/ are good players / etc reroll
upbeat folio
I get a lot "OMG UR THE BEST PROT I'VE SEEN" because they are so blinded by the perception that basic competency astounds them.
merry cave
If mdi is soon it'll be all DK +/- a couple dh
neon tangle
And it leaves those of us who care, and a sea of horrible players
raven kernel
Dh doesn't bring anything over dk either
upbeat folio
The perception is discouraging new entrants. Most people are just going arms.
neon tangle
Like 8/10 times I see another prot they donβt have SB on their bars
upbeat folio
If I were a DH, I'd be havoc.
raven kernel
Aoe stun and mega dmg
upbeat folio
No reason to be vengeance.
raven kernel
And darkness
neon tangle
Also honest question, I wonder if DK being so OP has created the βbalanceβ of healers in m+
upbeat folio
That is an excellent point, because honestly, I feel far more secure with Monks/Druids than I do with discipline.
Discipline is the obvious complement to Blood.
raven kernel
Nah I partner with a disc for all m+
neon tangle
I certainly prefer monks and druids too
upbeat folio
They really capitalize on my durability.
raven kernel
The pain sup is really nice to cover the window after my 50 cds
upbeat folio
lol @raven kernel
merry cave
@raven kernel I'd ontl say dh will be there because there are some who are very comfy on it
raven kernel
I practically never kite unless it's sanguine or some other forced reason
subtle egret
Shammy is the only healer Iv had issues with
raven kernel
@merry cave maybe but definitely at a disadvantage to use vdh over blood at mdi
merry cave
Yeh potentially
Although there's some measure of benefits from practice and comfortable on a class
raven kernel
I play vdh too and I don't enjoy it
Pretty much I only play it to share leather with my disc's monk alt
merry cave
I love how my vdh plays I think the legion changes were fantastic but I hate that you have to kite so much more
At least 2x more than my other tanks
raven kernel
Vdh utility isn't much better than prot too tbh
Shockwave does the same thing as silence sigil and on a shorter cd
Grip sigil is far inferior to mass grip
merry cave
I dunno, I'd trade.my stun for silence sigil in a heart beat purely due to the plethora of other some stuns but I'd agree the rest isn't that much different
magic drift
Silence lasts significantly longer though, and you can use it to gather up mobs since they're not locked in place.
raven kernel
And vdh has practically no defensive cds
merry cave
Agreed
raven kernel
And vdh dmg is stated to be one of the strengths of vdh
But again, coming from warrior.. Bitchplease
merry cave
Worse than war about same as pally π
raven kernel
Exactly
merry cave
Gonna level pally next tbh they seem more fun than most other tanks
Definitely better for m+
raven kernel
So compared to my warrior I don't feel like vdh has any edge over prot
Takes way fucking more dmg
merry cave
And the hotp change is real nice
raven kernel
Piss poor mitigation
Self heal on single target / low mob count is really bad
Imo on tyrannical bosses vdh is strictly inferior to prot
Tbh dk should be balanced to be like vdh is
In relation to other tanks
"there are benefits to picking dh but I don't feel particularly stronger"
Dk should be like that too
coral dew
Is anyone else annoyed thst they removed IP from gcd only to immediately put it on a 0.5 sec cd?
merry cave
^
raven kernel
When are u gonna need 2 ips within 0.5s
coral dew
Okay fair enough
You wouldn't but I just like the instantaneousness of not having it in gcd
You're right though, still a lot bettet
raven kernel
No its still off gcd
The 0.5s is its personal cd
So u cant fatfinger it twice and dump all your rage
merry cave
Yay the change everyone whinges for which does nothing to fix wars π
coral dew
Derp, that's what I meant
And yeah that too
Blue posts did mention they were looking at bigger buffs tho
raven kernel
I still expect more changes yea
raven kernel
Utility is a buff
merry cave
Not in the way people ask though
coral dew
God damn, semantics lol
raven kernel
Yeah, just semantics man
brittle timber
i'm starting to think that 'utility' is just a word that has lost it's meaning
merry cave
The issue I have with it was like on that reddit thread was just idiots who can't use cds dying and wanting buffs to be more 'tanky' when it's not our big issue
brittle timber
much like how 'clunky' became a buzzword that lost it's meaning to the devs
raven kernel
War should stay a proactive tank
I wouldn't want that to change
We're the only proactive tank left
merry cave
I couldn't care if we become no more strong defensively than we are now just got some actually useful utility
fossil basalt
Rie is delusional hha
raven kernel
π€
hollow kite
365 gleaming eye or 385 sporepod?
merry cave
Sporepod so so bad
urban birch
sporepod generally has very little use, but it might be worth testing out, but i would say gleaming eye, just because the proc is actually useful
the health received is really poor so it doesnt really offer any survivability
merry cave
As a general rule of thumb BFA tank trinkets are fucking awful and don't use them
urban birch
well, Jes Howler is good, but thats it really
merry cave
It's classes as a dps drop I think
urban birch
its on tank loottable
merry cave
All dps trinkets are iirc
urban birch
yea im trying to think if any dps trinkets drops exclusively, but thats only intellects since.. there isnt intellect tanks π yetβ’
subtle egret
Mage tank confirmed
neon tangle
Iβve been using the mythrax trinket at 370 for a little bit
Itβs kinda nice sometimes
neon tangle
Yeah it helps me stay alive in the situations where. Welll.... Iβm less likely to be OK
Nice on Gβhuun, etc
sick sentinel
last time we talked about warrior utility somebody suggested vaccum shout lol
upbeat folio
channels kirby.
prisma crane
i'll repeat an idea i had earlier, not really utility, but would help
have tclap's slow increased by 30% for X sec after DS falls off the target
brave mauve
Just give TC back its slowing of enemy auto attacks already and we're good
prisma crane
if it worked on cast times as well.... π
raven kernel
We don't really have issues in the kiting or auto attack mitigation department
sick sentinel
dark junco
We have issue in the utility derpartment
Weβd need a brez + something else even.
I mean even a brez wouldnβt really help us out.
Weβd need a LoS shield mechanic, that would actually help
raven kernel
No way we get a brez
dark junco
That thing sailed away with Odyn and the Valkyrs
But a LoS shield mechanic might happen.
brittle timber
can this game handle us artificially making 'terrain'?
tiny sphinx
tectus comes to mind
dark junco
^
raven kernel
I'm old school, sapphiron
dark junco
Hahah yeah Nax 40, true
brittle timber
oh yea....i just couldn't think of a previous example so i thought it might be technically difficult to make something like that
dark junco
So yeah, its pretty much doable. That LoS might be actually really really really useful and make us stand out.
sacred roost
Heroic Zul's Rupturing blood hurts, alot.
dark junco
Drop our shield to the ground, everyone tales cover behind it
Yeah stay into the raid as long as you can for heals
raven kernel
Could be broken on future bosses with Los mechanics lol
dark junco
LS and heroic leap away
dark junco
^
tiny sphinx
deploying shield - warrior becomes the R6 class
raven kernel
Inc 5000 new warrior alts called Reinhardt and Montagne
tiny sphinx
and the ocean liner load of memes that will result
raven kernel
Actually literally giving us a Reinhardt shield that absorbs magic dmg from the front might be nice
On a medium cd
wary crystal
how does bolstering work with the eye running part of sethrallis? do those adds proc it?
digital arrow
yeah just make rein a new tank class in wow
signal plover
@dusk locust u guys get it tonight? We got it on last pull
dusk locust
sick sentinel
Does the Azerite Trait Brace for Impact stack with multiple traits?
rich folio
yes
sick sentinel
ty
raven kernel
Lmao
junior ivy
im about to do a +13 atal dazaar
plain vapor
aye fetid down! π
raven kernel
I had 9% m ghuun last night π°
junior ivy
grtas @plain vapor !!!
plain vapor
thx!
old night
Zek Voz down
thanks to everyone in this discord for helping me along the way
I appreciate you all
last pull of the night
im craking open a victory beer. holy fuck i'm spent
odd ridge
grats!
neon tangle
sweet baby jesus, got me some 370 deafening crash shoulders
rich robin
So I decided to hop on the PTR to look things over, and I copied my warrior from live. Either IP is getting nerfed or our attack power is. Because the amount absorbed by IP went down by 2,708.
robust wave
I just recently got back into the game. Any vendor swords you guys can suggest? Only sword I see if from temple of seth, and the stats aren't ideal for a tank
rich robin
Of course they might just be tuning.
raven kernel
Vers scaling got removed from ip I think
Eh maybe not
I might have seen wrong
Check if you have flask and battleshout
Vs live
Or just check attack power
rich robin
HAHA You're right. Man I was freaking out for a moment
rich robin
@robust wave Vol'kaal from Atal'Dazar drops a decent mace
amber siren
yes
west cape
is there any string for pawn for protection warrior?
rich robin
from my understanding there isn't
west cape
but we should go for haste, right?
gray wolf
why would you swap a hast mast ring for a crit mast?
that's stupid as shit
mast is unreliable and crit is not even usable
@plain vapor don't swap it
plain vapor
well
i always see people goin off about goin for highest ilvl
at 44% haste right now anyways in uldir with the 8 stacks
final mist
- Stats are so close together that it doesn't matter.
- You go for highest ilevel because they're so close, that the raw stat gain outweighs the benefits of having whatever amount of Haste that is over the other stats.
chilly brook
Good god hold the phone
Donβt spread misinformation
Mastery is good
Crit is good
Haste is better
But ilvl>stats
final mist
Ex. If the ring stat totals on the 370 are ~200, and the stat totals on the 380 are ~220, you gain more from the 380 than the 370.
chilly brook
^^^^
upbeat folio
Grats!!
raven kernel
Gz
azure perch
old zephyr
This week sucks, no bugpull
sweet kettle
You can do big pulls but the adds need to die almost all together
limpid leaf
IP still has GCD, must have to wait til tuesday reset?
daring patrol
it's not a hotfix, it's coming in 8.1
steel mauve
We are still a ways off from ip going off gcd
daring patrol
these changes should absolutely be hotfixed in though IMO
stone crag
hotfixes are reserved for numbers tuning, changes like GCDs and tooltip updates have to be through patches