protection

[lusty grotto]

and even if you aren't getting a biased answer, there's really no reason to think something will be top or not

[digital arrow]

Biggest thing u can do to make fight easier is pause game for everyone and take controls of other people's computers throughout the mechanics

[signal plover]

(is joke)

[neon glade]

Currently progressing mythrax on mythic, so I beg to differ, but by all means

[lusty grotto]

buffs and nerfs work in conjuction to mechanics

[limber tulip]

loool

[lusty grotto]

you know what will make prot absurdidly strong?

[digital arrow]

Then way down that list of things that make fights easier is class choice. Like #39193

[lusty grotto]

if bosses in next raid are all gigantic physical damage

[limber tulip]

dynamic k values 4head

[torn sun]

But they are balancing the fight around magic damage now, right?

That was the reasoning to nerf magic damage reduction of all tank specs

or not?

[lusty grotto]

haha

you mean now or pre-bfa?

[torn sun]

well, pre-bfa

[lusty grotto]

yeah

shit man

i was actually hoping that was the case

but its not

[ember arrow]

wait

bfa is out already?

shit

[torn sun]

nah

naxx is out

[lusty grotto]

yes FA is out

just beta

[neon glade]

We still playing beta for alpharoth

[oblique garnet]

Im a big fan of the teleporting back to the mobs bug

[lusty grotto]

laser matrix ftw

[woeful otter]

I'm sorry but ar the prot buffs live?

[uneven mason]

No, they're on 8.1 PTR

[chilly brook]

@ember arrow something tells me outside of a complete rework of blood you’re not going to reroll

[ember arrow]

that something is wrong

i didnt say reroll

i said it will make me play warrior

[uneven mason]

Outside of the removal of Gorefiends BDK will not stop being the "goto" tank for M+ key pushing heh

or reduction of range on deathgrip

[frosty wedge]

I've been saying for a while, warriors need a leap that sucks enemy mobs in like barbs in d3, lol

[uneven mason]

So, here is the thing about Gorefriends, its not exclusively that its a "gather em all up" its that you can do it on a target that is 30 yards away from you (and thus, not be hit by them)

[frosty wedge]

yes I know

but any type of mob control would be nice

[uneven mason]

Yeah, I think best case would be giving warriors a 45s CD on a "LOS wall"

that forces mobs to run to you

[frosty wedge]

I would love that wall so much

[uneven mason]

without needing to fuck with finding a corner

[frosty wedge]

it would break stuff like rezan, the mobs in siege, etc

[sand egret]

a QA nightmare

but fun as fuck

[frosty wedge]

yeah

[sand egret]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[uneven mason]

"Break" you mean "Give Warriors Utility to deal with better than other tanks"

[sand egret]

like literal edge cases to consider

[uneven mason]

I like how its totally ok for other tanks to have "game breaking" utility, but warriors are such a conservative crowd taht we're like "Nah, bro, that'd be OP< we shouldn't get it"

[sand egret]

i'm talking literal breaks

not like hyperbole breaks

[ember arrow]

@uneven mason you start to turn into mattacafe

you ok bro?

[uneven mason]

It wouldn't break Rezan, it'd just make it so you could deal with every other fear

[frosty wedge]

every fear, b/c zerker rage

[uneven mason]

as the tank

[frosty wedge]

we would just not have to move

[uneven mason]

I mena your DPS/healer

[frosty wedge]

lol

[uneven mason]

wouldn't need to move

right

wouldn't break the fight at all

just make it easier WITH A WARRIOR

Outmany outlying situations can that be said

[sand egret]

I get what you're saying lol. I'm not specfically talking about Rezan

[uneven mason]

"This fight is Easier with X (X is normally BDK)

[lusty grotto]

yeah i mean rezan is not really an edge case, you have tremor totems too

[uneven mason]

Like at least 1 encounter in every raid tier since the birth of WoTLK

[sand egret]

just it's a completely new mechanic that every current and future design decision needs to now factor in

[chilly brook]

I mean just okay what you want tbh

I’m still gonna play my warrior in raids

[sand egret]

so potential for actual breakage is high

[uneven mason]

meh

[chilly brook]

But I’m bringing my blood DK up for m+

[uneven mason]

Bladesong

[lusty grotto]

i get what youre saying Blade

[uneven mason]

literally rogues had this ability last Xpac

[sand egret]

i'm aware smoke bomb exists

however that is still different

[uneven mason]

It'd be the same effect

[lusty grotto]

M+ is kind of a nightmare to design around since the general structure remains the same

[uneven mason]

it exists

[sand egret]

not exactly

[uneven mason]

it'd just be a "Cone" rather than a sphere

[lusty grotto]

with only affixes changing

[uneven mason]

or a half circle

which is just a mathematical calculation change for the area of effect

[sand egret]

at least what I'm getting is the suggestion, is we're instantiating a physical object, with its own colliders.

[uneven mason]

No no

just a "Create LOS"

[sand egret]

can mobs walk through it

[frosty wedge]

I mean, we KNOW they have the stuff for it... tons of mobs have a similar ability

[uneven mason]

Literally something that creates line of sight

yes

mobs can walk through it

to the warrior

its basically "Hide behind my tower shield"

[lusty grotto]

yeah collision is not something easily implemented, that would be asking for too much

[sand egret]

ok, that is a very important distinction 😃

[uneven mason]

so the mobs gotta move to you to get line of effect

[frosty wedge]

just givge us the barrier that shit in motherlode has, lol

[lusty grotto]

yeah

[sand egret]

what im getting at is, can you force an update in their pathing

[lusty grotto]

that's the best example

[sand egret]

as this can cause evade bugs

[frosty wedge]

I mean, collision wouldn't even be that bad, tons of boss fights have mehcanics that drop walls from the sky to hide behind

[chilly brook]

I mean we have mobs that have a barrier they can put up that absorbs all hits from that direction just make it an LoS as well

[uneven mason]

Yeah its jsut a LOS change

[sand egret]

not saying it cant be done either, but it's just a way more difficult ask, dev wise

[chilly brook]

But I’m not really a huge fan tbh

[uneven mason]

for 5seconds after the warrior does this the mob looses its LOS and must move to melee range to regain it

[chilly brook]

I don’t like being rooted in place

[lusty grotto]

it sounds easy but surely it's harder than that to implement

[uneven mason]

ITs the same as Smokebomb

[lusty grotto]

in summary

[uneven mason]

Smokebomb broke LOS

forced mobs to mnove to you

[lusty grotto]

yeah youre right

[uneven mason]

they had to "enter the field"

just make the "field" melee range

[chilly brook]

And it’s now only a pvp talent isn’t it?

[uneven mason]

the trade off is your group can't target the mobs

while they move to you

groovy stuff right

100% fits the warrior aesthetic

[sand egret]

Mact, so if I'm getting what you want it'd be like:
Bastion: Apply Bastion to all Allies 20 yards behind you. Allies with Bastion can't be targeted by spells or Ranged attacks.

[chilly brook]

I mean you could target people outside of smoke bomb if you were in it

[uneven mason]

More or less (including the warrior)

[sand egret]

ah gotcha

but the can't be targeted thing is what you're looking at

[uneven mason]

Its like using a tower shield in D&D to establish total cover

[lusty grotto]

DG will still be better though

[sand egret]

as an explicit "buff" as opposed to creating a LoS scenario via a physical object

[uneven mason]

It will be

[bronze lance]

what if warriors just had a chains that dragged all mobs to them for X seconds and it was treated like the wind in EoA so the mobs could still cast or run to another target they would just also be constantly dragged to the warrior

[uneven mason]

but it will give warriors "Seomthing"

Yeha a grappling chain was also discussed

but DH have that

[bronze lance]

its not an instant pull

[sand egret]

Except ours "pulls" whenever we Thunderclap

[bronze lance]

but a constant movement one

[sand egret]

buff for 8 seconds

each clap does a suck-in

😃

[bronze lance]

so could be really nice with caster mobs on sanguine cause its up for so long if you kill something move, and kill something again but a caster is casting it is just drug out

[rough peak]

hf in a 7+ shrine key

[bronze lance]

give prot warriors "arena" its the opposite of RoP and mbos in it flee in terror from the warrior and all aggro from other non takes is directed to the warrior

tanks**

[sand egret]

I just imagined the card "Brawl" from hearthstone turning into an ability reading that haha

[bronze lance]

oh god, just think pop that and then your rogue pops AD and BF and you just die

[chilly brook]

I like the idea of arena

[sand egret]

mobs just hitting each other

[chilly brook]

Something where we drop a banner down and mobs have to run into it and stay in the circle

[bronze lance]

i was thinking like the uld in LoL, i think its from the guy with a staff or something

he like jumps and stomps and then a little rock circle appears around him and enemies cant leave

[ember arrow]

jarvan IV

[bronze lance]

yea

just found him on their sight

[digital arrow]

Damn jarvans ult in wow would kick ass

Has warrior written all over it

[frosty wedge]

omg no runners in TD

❤

[lusty grotto]

where my dota2 peeps at

damn it

say no to lol

:p

[bronze lance]

griff make the changes happen, new mastery and new 100 talent

[digital arrow]

Yeah Griff, thanks

[chilly brook]

Oof

Guys

I can only do so much

Help me Asmon Mold Cleanoli you’re my only hope

[bronze lance]

how do I post on fourms now, i have like 4 posts total and last one was in like BC days

[lime wing]

Jes' Howler is THAT good of a trinket? I got one at 365

[chilly brook]

You don’t wanna post on the forums

Trust me

Jes’ Howler is a good trinket

[astral crystal]

how to m mythrax @hot locust @shut summit

what a shitshow boss

[sand egret]

@bronze lance , Sonya in HotS has the same functionality

and it's a Blizzard IP

=0

[frosty wedge]

get DPS to stop standing in beams?

[bronze lance]

ill log onto wow for the first time in 3 weeks and open a gm ticket lol

[chilly brook]

Lol

[astral crystal]

dont seem to generate enough fragments, seems random

i do run around grabbing what i can find obviously

but god damn

[bronze lance]

yo mr GM invite a blizz dev to group and let me have a talk with him

that will work right?

[sand egret]

64% of the time.

[bronze lance]

whats fourms %? 5 or 6%?

[neon tangle]

For the Mythrax trinket, does it reduce the damage of the attack that took you below 40%?

I.e. would it help with something like the thrash on fetid

[lusty grotto]

mythrax trinket eww

[neon tangle]

Or just sustained damage

[lusty grotto]

it's kind of an extra IP

[neon tangle]

@lusty grotto ehh, it’s just under 70k of a shield for the 370 one

It’s not horrible

[bronze lance]

what @sick sentinel do i do on twitter lol

[lusty grotto]

i wouldn't use it over other trinkets

[bronze lance]

entertainment or CS lol

[lusty grotto]

doubt you can get ahold of anyone there Roch

truth be told I don't really know what they watch, there's so much shit in the forums as it is

[bronze lance]

i can do it

i believe in myself like the little train that could

[frosty wedge]

twitter is actually a good forum for stuff like this

the forums are limited to wow related people

[lusty grotto]

except twitter has a fuckload more users than wow

[frosty wedge]

if you make enough noise on twitter people generally answer

[lusty grotto]

even if you're addressing Blizzard, you don't know if it'll reach it unless you get massive retweets/trending

[bronze lance]

so ill at blizzard 1000 times till the person in charge of the account answers

[oblique garnet]

if you are eu player

[lusty grotto]

who would you tag?

[oblique garnet]

dont bother using twitter

[frosty wedge]

I live in a city of like 3 million people and I got a DM from the office of the mayor with a private phone number and a requets to stop @ing the mayor

[bronze lance]

ahahahahahaha

[sand egret]

well either way you're hitting a social person who you're praying passes it on to any dev who then you're praying actually gets the gimmick in the moment enough to pitch it

[frosty wedge]

when my pipes froze a couple years ago

lol

[sand egret]

you get a dev on donut day

[lusty grotto]

your best bet is to tag the Class Dev

[sand egret]

and that shit is in the build next week

[lusty grotto]

which i have no idea who it is

or just hop on PTR boards with suggestions

but do not mention Gorefiends

or you will get massive downvotes from rerolls

(or sigil of chains)

[sand egret]

all you gotta say is: "Warriors should get Arreat's Crater in WoW"

[bronze lance]

ill try making a post on PTR fourms or something when i get home I guess

[sand egret]

that's the name of the level 20 talent for Sonya in HotS that is the same thing as the Jarvan ult

[bronze lance]

cool cool

[sweet kettle]

I want the root for thunder clap pvp talent as a passive

[sand egret]

mobs don't suffer from diminishing returns for roots right?

cuz that shit would blow

you're spamming that shit all the time by the time you're kiting it won't do diddly squat

[sweet kettle]

Don't know all I know is dk has every cool thing as a tank

[bronze lance]

instead of increased range on TC after you TC a target 3 times they are cahrged for 5 seconds and if they move then they suffer damage

[ember arrow]

you lack imagination

FlyingBugatsa

Don't know all I know is dk has every cool thing as a tank

in #protection · Oct 25, 2018, 4:02 PM

[bronze lance]

whatever that skill was in halls of lightning in wrath

[sweet kettle]

Fk imagination

[frosty wedge]

@sand egret I son't think roots has DR b/c boomkin's laugh at the first boss in king's rest

mass entangle for 30s on every add

[sweet kettle]

Dk legit has a button for every possible problem

[frosty wedge]

with a 30s cooldown

the adds essentially don't exist on that fight if you bring a boomkin

[sweet kettle]

Isn't it fun when you have to do mechanics?

[frosty wedge]

when the pack of ads gets bigger, I gorefiends the furthest one then he re-entangles, lol

it's really kind of bonkers how much different classes change encounters

[sweet kettle]

Yep

[sand egret]

@frosty wedge 30 seconds is longer than the DR window

does that 30 seconds diminish per application within the window

[frosty wedge]

the boomkin I was running with legit just said "don't worry about the adds, I got them"

and I didn't see an add get near the boss

so I'm assuming DR doesn't apply

[sweet kettle]

I am pretty sure roots only break when you dmg the target

Same with incap

[bronze lance]

or when it times out

[sweet kettle]

Well yeah

[bronze lance]

smirks at his knowledge of the game

[sweet kettle]

Only stuns and big effects like fear and stuff have Dr I think

[sand egret]

I mean i'm referring less to how it breaks but rather if each re-application of the effect within the window is subject to returns. I don't think roots do, but what I'd imagine would be the confirm case is if you repeatedly cast entangle roots on the same target, does the maximum duration decrease?

I know it does for PvP

[lusty grotto]

roots def have DR

you can test it, get a druid friend

charge the target, make him root

break the root, charge it again

make him root again

so forth

or just tell him to spam root

[spice remnant]

hello guys should I replace very high crit ring to high versa ?

Item is ring

[stark sage]

same ilvl?

[lusty grotto]

whats the other stat, and ilvls?

[spice remnant]

385 mother ring 302 crit 129 haste 77 leech to 370 WM ring 145 haste 261 versa

[stark sage]

385

no question

[spice remnant]

why ?

I wonder

[stark sage]

15 ilvls worth of stats will beat anything but maybe perfect stats + socket

[royal oasis]

You choose the 385 because it has more stats period

Additively

[stark sage]

leech also isnt bad

[royal oasis]

Crit is also not terrible

Plus more stam which is never bad :p

[sand egret]

free leech

bruhhh

[spice remnant]

I see I have one more question. I do have 370 Rezan's and 355 Blockades. I also have 385 Disc of regression the trinket from zek'voz. Should I change trinket for m+ especialy.

[sand egret]

hmm

[lusty grotto]

what are you looking for?

dps or defensively

[spice remnant]

Well I dont knoıw how blockadess is

[sand egret]

i'd personally drop blockades

[lusty grotto]

blockades is strong for EHP

[spice remnant]

ehp?

[sand egret]

at that ilvl difference it's real close

[lusty grotto]

but the haste from rezan can make up for it

[sand egret]

but I also can't speak much for disc, I don't have one to speak from personal experience on it

[spice remnant]

Okay which trinket I should go after it ?

Tol dagor trinket?

[lusty grotto]

sure

[spice remnant]

to replace blockadess

[sand egret]

that'd be ideal

[lusty grotto]

blockades won't be replaced defensively until next tier

there's no replacement

Blockades + Jes is the best defensive combo

[spice remnant]

I see. Take concern Im new at tanking.

[sand egret]

oh def blockades

[oblique garnet]

The disc is also underwhelming

if you want more dps just get fathoms

[lusty grotto]

or Syringe

[spice remnant]

okay

thanks guyt

[lusty grotto]

or just a high Rezan hehe

[spice remnant]

I have 370 😃

[lusty grotto]

i usually go with 1 defensive option and 1 dps option for M+

[spice remnant]

is rezan offensive option in this case?

[lusty grotto]

but that's me

[spice remnant]

blockadess and rezan

[sand egret]

Rezan's is just dope, imho

[lusty grotto]

Rezan + Disc should be fine if you feel you don't need defensiveness

[spice remnant]

okay ❤ u guys

[sand egret]

or live the fucking dream and get some stupid TF Zandalari Emblem

god that trinket is amazing

[lusty grotto]

heh

[sand egret]

I swear its like 60% uptime

[spice remnant]

I do hav 355 of it

[sand egret]

this guy.

[spice remnant]

I was never used it before

[lusty grotto]

yes sorry Blockades + Rezan is definately a defensive option

[sand egret]

I'd mess around with it if I were you. I'm a haste nut and that trinket is like my crack haha. I just wanna live vicariously through you

[spice remnant]

😄

Im arms warrior I do tankıng for m+

I wish best luck 😄

[sand egret]

I have a rezan's and that trinket within 10 ilvls and I honestly think the zandalari trinket blows rezan's out of the water

[lusty grotto]

never seen a rezan 😦

i want it so bad

[sand egret]

rezan's is great and lasts 15 effing seconds

[lusty grotto]

yeah i know

[sand egret]

but the zandalari is 8 seconds with like double the proc rate (if not more) and way more haste

[spice remnant]

Does ilvl same is important in terms of traits for Prot warior ?

In m+

[sand egret]

rule of thumb regarding traits for Prot is that you need 1 point of Deafening Crash

if that means taking a lesser ilvl then do it

[spice remnant]

I do

[lusty grotto]

if you have 1 Deafening Crash, the other two pieces should be your highest ilvl

[sand egret]

other than that there are some better traits (Brace for Impact and Iron Fortress) but overall take the ilvl that's higher

[spice remnant]

385 archive or 370 Brace for m+. Consider that I do have 1 Deafening crash and Reinforced Planting

[lusty grotto]

archive

[sand egret]

ya

[lusty grotto]

it's 385 too

so 385 > 370

[sand egret]

the stat increase alone is where it wins

that's more stam, str, and armor overall

[spice remnant]

Fuck its so different

[oblique garnet]

385 is only not worth it if it only has option of callous reprisal

[stiff osprey]

so is Warr gonna be better in 8.1?

[oblique garnet]

over 370

[sand egret]

it'll def feel better

[lusty grotto]

i wouldn't say that, 385 is 15 ilvls worth of Armor Str and Stam

doesn't matter if it's callous reprisal or not

[runic fjord]

since our health pools are pretty small compared to say, DKs, ilvl is pretty fuckin sweet

[sand egret]

certainly not a big enough difference where you'd be flat out wrong tho

[lusty grotto]

it's not mainly due to Stam

[sand egret]

but we get way more value per health point

[runic fjord]

not mainly for sure

but it's definitely noticeable

[lusty grotto]

Armor + Str are more important for sure

[runic fjord]

yea

[spice remnant]

First time I did AD +10 with prot omg

its fuckıng amazing

that dps

[oblique garnet]

I mean i have 370 Shoulders with IF Veins and fortification compared to 385 with callous reprisal and shimmering haven

[lusty grotto]

nice that you like it 😃

[runic fjord]

Then you went and did Shrine and went "oof magic damage"

"owie"

[spice remnant]

😄

[lusty grotto]

I would still use 385s Late

[sand egret]

yeah I'd prob use the 385 as well, tbh

[oblique garnet]

i really like the extra self healing i get from veins in m+ with 2 of them

[sand egret]

that's definitely a diff angle to look at it tho

[lusty grotto]

no doubt, but you're missing out on the armor gained

and bigger IPs

[sand egret]

I want a piece with veins 😦

[runic fjord]

Btw, since 8.1 IP gcd change, Bloodsport value is significantly higher, yea?

[uneven mason]

Do we have any idea of how the DC changes are going to affect the ilvl weight of that trait? more in line with BFI or still worth 2 tiers?

[oblique garnet]

More in line with BFi probably

[lusty grotto]

no napkin math yet mac

right

[uneven mason]

yeah, Balsaq retired

[sand egret]

my gut said says prob not 2 tiers

[lusty grotto]

i was wondering where he was

[uneven mason]

wasn't raiding iirc

[lusty grotto]

😦

[uneven mason]

so he basically is in the wind

[sand egret]

he was in here last night for a sec

[uneven mason]

I mean, I'm not doing mythic atm

[lusty grotto]

he's not even in discord heh

at least right now

[oblique garnet]

the difference between 370 and 385 azerite is 62 str and 126 stam

[uneven mason]

but at least I'm being recognized for "Exemplary past services" by being allowed to tank farm content. Like a retired Athelete in a wheelchair being allowed to light the Olympic Torch

[lusty grotto]

how much armor

LOL

[royal oasis]

What do you mean

[oblique garnet]

48 armor

[lusty grotto]

at least that's better than a participation ribbon

[royal oasis]

We all tank in wheelchairs

Mine has a little horn that sounds "aggro"

[uneven mason]

TFW I Beat the paladins in HPS I'm always like 🖕

[oblique garnet]

overall physical dr changes 0.24%

[uneven mason]

well

its a bit more than that

[lusty grotto]

that's not quite right

[oblique garnet]

thats purely of the armor

[uneven mason]

str goes in to that, and you have to measure actual value of DR on the armor scale

hurf math

[oblique garnet]

I know

[lusty grotto]

i cant math without lunch

[uneven mason]

I need me some KUNGPAO

light some fires in my brain

[oblique garnet]

But like no way you look at it 385 with bad traits will give more DR than 370 with IF and 2nd veins + 3rd trait

[uneven mason]

So like

DC is the only trait worth over 15ilvls

chances are this nerf will make it worth ~ 15 ilvls versus another peice with Bloodsport/BFI/IF

It also reduces the power of UF

and BV by extension

with IP off the GCD, Devastator might catch up a little

[oblique garnet]

look at these traits

[uneven mason]

You uh, have fun with that one.

[steel mauve]

Dev moght catch up but i still dont see it over taking demo shout

[oblique garnet]

Yeah no

[steel mauve]

Err BV

[uneven mason]

Well its already a ST DPS gain

and we'll have a lot of free GCDs

[steel mauve]

Barely

[uneven mason]

that I'd rather fill with SS than Devastate

but we'll see

[steel mauve]

A major issue with dev isnt the lack of free gcds, its that now tc, revenge and devestate proc free ss's

[sand egret]

I certainly will try it out haha, I like hitting SS than Devastate more that's for sure haha

[uneven mason]

OH trust me I get that

I'm the first one that bangs that "overlapping" drum

[steel mauve]

So if you proc one with devestator and then accidentally over ride it with tc then you just majorly devalued dev

[uneven mason]

which detracts from a lot of value on Devastator

if you didn't have to worry about overlapping (Like if SS resets operated on charges)

[steel mauve]

You barely hit devestate any ways, every 6-8 gcds

[uneven mason]

Devastator would probably be in the lead for ST RPS

I'm not talking about Devastate GCDs

[sand egret]

Devastator should fire off an automatic SS when it procs and reset the cd 😃

[uneven mason]

I'm talking about IP GCDs

[steel mauve]

Which is about 6 or 7 devestates a minute

[uneven mason]

You're now going to be literally just ADDING IP GCD use to Devastate GCD use

that is a LOT more than 10% we're currently seeing

[steel mauve]

They really need to buff the dmg of devestate though

[uneven mason]

Like many of us have been saying for a long time "IP off the GCD really doesn't make a big difference, we'll just be hitting Devastate more"

Devastate is the definition of a filler ability

a damage increase is unlikely

[royal oasis]

In a raid setting the IP gcd will be negligable

[uneven mason]

now what i'd like to see is Devastator getting 2 rage per auto attack increase

or something that allows us to generate rage from parry/block

[steel mauve]

Devestate literally does less dmg than your melee attack though

[uneven mason]

right

[sand egret]

it's the emotional devastation that really matters

[steel mauve]

That shouldnt happen from an ability thats used

[sick sentinel]

Devastate is not really that devastating

[uneven mason]

Krysoken I dunno about you, but when I'm main tanking a raid - I use IP frequently, this is why I've got one of the best HC Ghuun healing parses

[sand egret]

it's the warrior equivalent of slapping the mob with a white satin glove

[uneven mason]

and one of the lower DTPS

[steel mauve]

Ive never paid attention to it much but do abilities still fuck with swing timers?

[uneven mason]

No

[sand egret]

it's ALL the psychological impact

[sick sentinel]

I like IP off the GCD because that means I will cap rage less

[royal oasis]

I IP all the time. Im just saying the gcd change isn't going to be super impactful due to our relatively lower rage gain as opposed to an m+ setting

[sick sentinel]

And that translates to faster CDs

[steel mauve]

Its not going to be impactful to our survival, but it just helps woth the clunky rotation a bit

[royal oasis]

Agreed

It'll flow better

[dusk locust]

it increases rage gen and damage

[sick sentinel]

And faster CDs translates to more damage

[steel mauve]

Not by a lot

[sick sentinel]

Because of higher avatar uptime

[dusk locust]

probably not by a ton but it boosts it some for sure

[sick sentinel]

Because when I am dpsing during avatar, I am capped on rage immediately

[steel mauve]

Its not hard to use it to not cap rage, and still not hurt the cd of other abilities, and rarely does it interfere with them in oh shit moments, it will slightly help, but not extremely noticeable defensively

[dusk locust]

count however many IPs that were cast during a boss fight. you have that many GCDs to cast something else

[steel mauve]

Itll basically be all devestates as mac said

[dusk locust]

probably mostly devestates

[steel mauve]

Which does piss all for dmg

[dusk locust]

it resets other abilities tho

[royal oasis]

Devastate just serves as an ss reset

[dusk locust]

so that's more SS's

[sick sentinel]

Exactly

It's not world changing

But a quality of life

[royal oasis]

The 2 seconds off shield block...now that's nice

[sick sentinel]

That's really nice ye

[royal oasis]

I already have enough haste to almost have sb up as long as I need it

That'll just make it even better

[sand egret]

anyone mess around with Bodyguard in PvP. did it for the lulz last night....oh man was it fun

just did a bg with my ret friend and I could have built a temple from the bodies of fallen arms warriors and rogues

[empty nacelle]

with regards to spell reflecting omega vector

do i do that to prevent it jumping to me, or the last tick of damage?

[next ermine]

Bodyguard is great in pvp

[oblique garnet]

last tick of dmg

[empty nacelle]

thanks

[oblique garnet]

you shouldnt be having omega vector tho

[neon tangle]

real talk how do you avoid that during the spread?

when adds are up and stuff

[oblique cedar]

ought to have dps in three groups right

unless youre in LFR

then good luck

[neon tangle]

90% of when I get a vector is from dps killing the add

like, during the liquify

while the boss is alive no issues

[wild atlas]

Should only have ranged doing it then

[signal tulip]

they are too close then. No need for them to hump the add

or be in front of it for that matter

[wild atlas]

Mark yourself too if that helps them keep track of you

[neon tangle]

considering the number of people who die to void lash

and thrash

marking don't work lololol

[wild atlas]

How in the actual duck

That’s the most obvious frontal in the raid apart from Sanitizing Strike from MOTHER

I’d kick em to the curb if they can’t figure that shit out

[oblique garnet]

TIL you can skip the trash between taloc and mother if you throw a frozen orb through the wall

[neon tangle]

but those BoEs

[crisp stone]

How's Punish for Fetid mythic, probably not worth I guess?

[next ermine]

probably not cause more haste is always good

i guess if you have a nearly full ranged group you could consider punish

[crisp stone]

With mythic you won't have your melee that close often right, since debuff AoE

[signal plover]

Correct

But there's a couple spots

[sick sentinel]

I would say go with itf a few weeks ago

But with 8 stacks of haste

You can get away with punish I would say

[stark sage]

i would say probably not

[sick sentinel]

Personally I am not tanking off ITF for any reason whatsoever

[stark sage]

there are 97 parses on mythic fetid, 5 use punish and the highest one is rank 39

[sick sentinel]

Bad kappa

[chrome falcon]

@neon tangle @oblique garnet you absolutely should be taking omega vectors on vectis

reducing the overall stacks of lingering infection on the group is very useful

[sick sentinel]

The problem is getting double omegas

[oblique garnet]

^ and that with the tank debuff

[stuck coral]

hello

some1 know why i cant simcraft my char?

"Your spec is not supported by SimulationCraft at this time"

[sick sentinel]

Because there are no working sims for prot

And we don't need them that much tbh, just wear the highest ilvl

Our statweights are roughly haste=mastery=crit=vers with crit losing value in raids and gaining value in m+

So jusy wear your highest ilvl

[stuck coral]

some1 have the weight of stat weight

or really all = ?

[sick sentinel]

There are no stat weights all stays are roughly the same

Just get more stats

[stuck coral]

ok

[sick sentinel]

You want your reorigination array to be haste though

That's important

[sand egret]

I'd put Haste above the rest, personally, but echoing above it's pretty close regardless

[stuck coral]

Shield Block cooldown is decreased by haste?

[sand egret]

yes

[sick sentinel]

Yes.

[stuck coral]

Ignore Pain out of GCD?

[sick sentinel]

In 8.1

[stuck coral]

ok

[sick sentinel]

In one month roughly

[sand egret]

mayybe

(i'd bet Jan is more likely)

[stuck coral]

for you, warrior can be a good tank in M+ / Uldir MM

[sand egret]

yep

[sick sentinel]

Uldir for sure

M+ we lack utility

[sand egret]

M+ yes, but you may find other tanks being more desired for thier increased utility

but for most keys that most are doing, it's fine

[stuck coral]

best azerites traits is Ignore Pain?

i think one RA + BS x2 ?

[cinder nova]

Nope

[sick sentinel]

Deafening crash

[cinder nova]

DC, BfI

[sick sentinel]

And double brace for impact

Or iron fortress

[junior ivy]

about to check my 370 azerite emissary reward... come onnnnnnnnnnn deafening crash

guys i need this. i have to get it.

i have to.

[sick sentinel]

You still don't have a 370 dc?

Pff

[junior ivy]

i dont

just 340

cry

THIS IS MY CHANCE

[sick sentinel]

That's why you're in raid 2 lol

[junior ivy]

HERE GOES...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sick sentinel]

Gz

[junior ivy]

THANKS

NOW I CAN USE MY 385 SHOULDERS

!!!!!!!!!!!

OK THIS IS BIG

NOW I GOTTA FIGURE OUT WHICH AZERITES TO USE

UGH

OK OK OK OK

wait what are 2nd and 3rd best prot traits?

IM OVERWHELMED

[silk mortar]

You mean rings?

Or just primary

[junior ivy]

I DUNNO

im overwhelmed now

lemme figure this out

[sick sentinel]

Brace for impact

Iron fortress

[silk mortar]

Brace for impact, iron fortress pretty good

ive haerd

[sick sentinel]

Do not lose array btw

[junior ivy]

i dunno ifi even have array

[oblique garnet]

in uldir

[junior ivy]

what is array

[oblique garnet]

uldir trait

[junior ivy]

im overwhelmed

gutripper, heed my call or strength in numbers?

[sick sentinel]

I use a bfi chestpiece for m+ and a laser matric chestpiece for uldir for example

[junior ivy]

for middle ring

[sick sentinel]

3rd

[junior ivy]

im trusting you

[sick sentinel]

Wait

[junior ivy]

vapiric speed or self reliance?

[sick sentinel]

It's the one with health right?

[junior ivy]

NO WAIT, IVE ALREADY CHOSEN IT

yes

vampiric speed or self reliance now?

[sick sentinel]

Then correct

Speed

[oblique garnet]

you are never in a situation where there is no mobs near you

[junior ivy]

my helm has iron fortress

so keep it right?

[oblique garnet]

as a tank

[sick sentinel]

You keep it

[oblique garnet]

unless its inbetween pulls

[junior ivy]

shoulders have.. lemme see

unstable catalyst or brace for impact?

[sick sentinel]

Brace

100%

[junior ivy]

OK HERES MY SITUATION THEN

helm: iron fortress, 370 ilvl. shoulders: brace for impact, 385 ilvl. chest: deafening crash, 370 ilvl

am i okay?

[sand egret]

it's a trap. The only answer is to pick no traits.

[sick sentinel]

Middle rings?

[junior ivy]

IDC ABOUT MIDDLE

😦

[sand egret]

those look fine

[sick sentinel]

Outer rings are bis

For m+

[junior ivy]

so im looking ok?

[sand egret]

👌

[junior ivy]

why didnt my image work

there

[sick sentinel]

If you wanna go uldir you need an azeritr piece with an uldir trait

[oblique garnet]

Oh cmon that 380 shield

[sick sentinel]

Like archive or laser matrix

[junior ivy]

ok wait im confused about these ulkdir traits

i have a helm with laser matrix

is it better than brace for impact?

[oblique garnet]

in uldir yes

[sand egret]

in Uldir, yeah

[junior ivy]

heeres the thing

[sick sentinel]

ONLY inside uldir

[junior ivy]

i refuse to change gear between uldir and m+

so i need to know the bestin general

[oblique garnet]

why

[sick sentinel]

You're a mongo

[sand egret]

respect that

[oblique cedar]

thats a bit silly

[junior ivy]

i do +11s, +12s and i am working on being 3.8 mythic

3/8

[oblique garnet]

Yeah you need the uldir trait

atm i get 600 haste from the trait alone

[junior ivy]

it just gets confusing having so many different gear in my bag

[sick sentinel]

I would be fine if that was archive

[light oasis]

It’s one extra gear

[sand egret]

what piece is your array anyway?

helm?

[sick sentinel]

He said helm with laser

[sand egret]

oh nvm you said it

[junior ivy]

ok fgine fine fine

i made a set

called tank (uldir)

where i use laser matrix on helm

[sick sentinel]

@junior ivy get a piece with archive and you can use that for both m+ and uldir

[junior ivy]

do you know how long it took me to get a DC piece

itll be months

[sick sentinel]

Just bonus roll it

[junior ivy]

i have a chest with archive of ther titans actually, 370

but i need 370 DC chest

this is so confusing

[sick sentinel]

What boss drops archive on shoulders or head?

[oblique garnet]

mother iirc

drops the bis helm

Yeah mother drops the bis helm with archive + veins

And impassive visage

[junior ivy]

im confused

about soemthing

again

help

[sick sentinel]

go on

[junior ivy]

wait

i think im stupid

i think i DEed my othetr 385 shoulders

[sick sentinel]

item restoration

[junior ivy]

i used ot have 2 of the same ones

yeha casue i want one for fury onre fo rprot

im just overwhelmed right now by thisd azerite stuff

i did DE them.

[sick sentinel]

restore them, easy

[junior ivy]

k i am

[sick sentinel]

also, you are 3/8 right?

[junior ivy]

2/8 we are working on zek 😦

[sick sentinel]

sure whatever

use 1 bonus roll on taloc for weapon

and 1 on mother for bis in slot helm

[junior ivy]

omg i need Thyme for something but hes gone 😦

ok i gotta sim myself

ok im simmed

[sand egret]

ironically, the goal of the azerite system is to avoid the above ☝

[junior ivy]

as fury

i gotta change a trinket for fury

otherwise im good

17k dps

is that pretty good

i should ask in fury

[sick sentinel]

#fury

M O N G O

[junior ivy]

now lets see if my luck extends to headless horseman

[silk mortar]

Hope not

Not a good sign to be too lucky

[junior ivy]

no luck ojn my warrior time to try druid

ok sosososos

i use my bonus rolls on

mythic taloc and mythic mother?"

right?

for weapon and helm?

[simple kiln]

Are you talking about for prot? Either way it's a good idea to loot spec arms on mythic taloc so you can get a high ilvl two hander in order to be able to trade em around since there is no prot specific item on that boss

[junior ivy]

i need a 2nd weapon for fury anyway

so def bonus rolling taloc

but i also apparently need a helm from mother with some uldir trait that cna be used in raid and m+?

[simple kiln]

I mean, where else would you use bonus rolls if you are 2/8? I am a big fan of bonus rolling until you know your prog boss will likely die / you have all the loot you want from the farm bosses. Especially with loot trading so you can help distribute loot

[junior ivy]

so uh

here is a female blood elf wearing a male gnome mask

i think it's important

[sand egret]

nice mog cat!

[junior ivy]

thanks, its my horde warrior

omfg this group is about to wipe on headless horseman fight

[frosty wedge]

LOL

[stark sage]

monkas

[junior ivy]

btw how do i deletre a character that once had a token on it

but doesnt anymore

BUT THERE ISNT

[frosty wedge]

zek voz will never drop my weapon

and people are terrible at this game

lol

[simple kiln]

Uhh, he doesn't drop a warrior weapon?

[sick sentinel]

fury is ew.

arms is best.

[oblique cedar]

why is fury ew

i only play prot idk

[sand egret]

I like fury. I just hit buttons and it looks cool. I have a very high bar for my expectations of a spec tho

[sick sentinel]

because with the right traits/gear, you get 100k+ mortal strikes in execute phases. and its lolworthy

especially on cleave fights w/ sweeping

[surreal stump]

helm from mother i got two of em makes my life so much easier one for archive other for impact lol

[lusty grotto]

i hate fury

arms for life

always hated fury, but i started vanilla as arms main

then prot main with arms offspec before they put in multi specs

[rustic python]

tanking as arms in vanilla is where it was at

[lusty grotto]

i've been having fun as arms to be sure this expac

[rustic python]

just don't use MS or someone might see the debuff

[lusty grotto]

right

since you could use sunders as arms

never tanked as arms though

[cursive ivy]

You had to use MS to maintain aggro.

31/5/15

[lusty grotto]

not intentionally anyway lol

not really, sunder spam worked well

[rustic python]

There was

ya that was the spec like 31 for MS / 5 For the crit in fury then 15 for toughness or w/e the crap was in prot

just equip a shield and 3 sunder then spam MS

[lusty grotto]

defensive stance too

[rustic python]

well defensive stance was baseline

you didn't spec into it

[lusty grotto]

yea that's not what i meant

you didnt tank in berserker stance :p

[rustic python]

remember when stance swapping was a thing?

or the macro that cancelled bloodrage so you could exit combat for a free charge

they better not patch that

[lusty grotto]

eh

i'm not gonna bother with vanilla at all

fuck that

i played it in its time

[rustic python]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lusty grotto]

that time is gone

[rustic python]

BFA's time is gone too.. waiting for the early access to finish

[lusty grotto]

right

fortunately there are a bunch of games coming out 😃

[stark sage]

prot talents back then were okay defensively but garbage for dps, so not a lot of people really went deep into the prot tree

like maybe you dipped down to last stand if you really needed it

[rustic python]

Prot got good in BC

[stark sage]

when they added devastate

[lusty grotto]

devastate applied sunders, no more sunder spam

and spell reflect

[rustic python]

didn't sunder do more threat?

[lusty grotto]

i think so but

[stark sage]

sort of,

devastate did more after like 3 stacks

[lusty grotto]

wasn't really needed

[stark sage]

its damage scaled with stacks of sunder

[rustic python]

I think I sundered the first 3 then devestate to reapply

I think.. I forgot tbh

[lusty grotto]

sure

[rustic python]

I remember during SSC the other tank used thunderfury cause the cyclones generated shit tons of threat but that got nerfed at some point

I don't remember having threat issues in BC actually.. 🤔

[lusty grotto]

TF was still OP in BC

for sure

i don't remember the nerf though

[rustic python]

it was nerfed im 99% sure.. around SSC time

the cyclones

[kind urchin]

When Devastate first came in it only refreshed sunder armor. You still had to apply sunder and then swap to devastate.

[lusty grotto]

right

[sand egret]

the biggest nerf was the fact that Thunderfury affected the boss's swing speed. There was a threat nerf at one point since it was really off

[lusty grotto]

that was it

[kind urchin]

But tanking back then I'd say was a little more dynamic. I actually kept multiple hotbars to actually swap the whole bar depending on if I need to do multi target or single target tanking.

You know, back when all specs could use cleave and thunderclap hit 4 targets.

[sand egret]

it'd split hairs and say that "dynamic" is a bit of a misnomer but it definitely was more robust

I'd*

[fringe marten]

It's not hard to tab over to explosive orbs but is there a popular WA for them atm?

[sand egret]

maybe one in the weakaura channel?

[kind urchin]

There was one in Legion that made the nameplate all shiny and big. Don't know if it still works now.

[neon tangle]

@kind urchin I did kinda enjoy there being a single and multitarget rotation

It's why I actually started playing prot instead of bear in cata, I thought the always-multitarget rotation was dumb

[supple path]

I do miss threat being a serious mechanic you constantly were focusing on.

Instead of just an "oops I haven't hit that one for 20 seconds while kiting" idiot check.

[neon tangle]

I generally prefer the focus on mitigation abilities now tho

although I wish we had more interesting choices

[supple path]

It's nice to have, but I'd prefer both.

It'd make shit like revenge vs IP a real choice if revenge's threat were meaningful.

[neon tangle]

than "keep block up, press IP if you've got extra rage"

[lusty grotto]

yeah i wouldn't really like to go back to threat management

[supple path]

Was fun in TBC that I'd tank on my prot paladin on a bunch of stuff because threat was more important than mitigation, but obviously a different era.

[sand egret]

threat is a bit too obfuscated for my liking

[limber tulip]

@neon glade :feelsdabman:

[neon tangle]

I'm sure people will hate this, just like they did the last time I said it, but conceptually I think that brewmaster has some of the most interesting tank mechanics, i.e. ISB vs. purifying

[neon glade]

🏓

[sand egret]

it's a tradeoff, which is cool

[neon tangle]

most of the other tanks are just "Press main AM, press secondary AM if you got extra resources"

[sand egret]

I don't disagree, class state aside

[supple path]

Meaningful choices where one isn't clearly always wrong is good class design.

[neon tangle]

very little interaction between them

[kind urchin]

Mitigation was passive and depended on how you geared your character. Now we don't have defensive stats in the same manner but they traded it for active mitigation.

[sand egret]

it really comes down to what a player imagines the "tank" to be

[supple path]

I mean my tbcadin had holy shield + 4 defensive CDs.

[sand egret]

like, as an rpg element

[kind urchin]

To be clear neither design bothers me. I enjoy tanking anyways. So long as they do it well.

[supple path]

I just don't like how threat's basically an idiot check rather than a mechanic now.

[oblique garnet]

Wdym?

[supple path]

And they tease you with skittish every so often where they're like, "Remember when this was considered a challenging mechanic that we balanced around? Blizzard Farms remembers."

[sand egret]

it's just not transparent and lifting up a layer would honestly do more harm to newer players than it would help

[stark sage]

i dunno even back then, threat was still an idiot check

just it was more punishing back then

[supple path]

Not all of us had blessing of salvation.

[kind urchin]

I am however not the biggest fan of the excessive amount of AOE. And that goes for all tanks, and a lot of other specs to be honest.

[oblique garnet]

Skittish is that an affix? 🤔

[sand egret]

it's not a super clear mechanic to begin with, as it's a modified product of damage but also not

[limber tulip]

how isnt it

[sand egret]

so you either surface it, and try to get players to parse it in addition to every other element, or you obfuscate it more to downplay it while adjusting systems so there isn't much resistance

[stark sage]

threat as a mechanic isnt interesting unless they added some sort of gameplay for tanks around it, like maybe a way for them to do extra dps at the cost of threat gen, and they have to strike a balance to be optimal

[neon tangle]

It was kinda fun of stuff like void reaver, but I OT-ed for a bunch of BC so threat was almost never an issue

[sand egret]

also remember

back in the day Wing Buffet was everywhere

it was an actual mechanic in that respect.

[lusty grotto]

patchwerk comes to mind too

[sand egret]

yeah but that was more of a race

[kind urchin]

Vanilla Naxx or Wrath?

[lusty grotto]

vanilla

[sand egret]

either

tbh

[lusty grotto]

i cant recall if wotlk had tank mechanics

[supple path]

Sure - "reroll paladin"

[lusty grotto]

no i mean patchwerk

[sand egret]

get as much threat as you can =/= prepare for massive drop like WB was

[kind urchin]

Completely different. I was competing with dps in the wrath version. They didn't stand a chance in hell of pulling off of me. Vanilla was a pita because threat was harder to maintain.

[lusty grotto]

i mean 4horseman was ez mode as it was

[supple path]

PW in vanilla was #1/2/3 on threat were getting hit, right?

[sand egret]

mechanically, I don't see patchwerk as comparable to WB

[supple path]

I honestly forget.

[lusty grotto]

you needed that fucking taunt trinket from ZG for vanilla 4 horse

[sand egret]

it was 1 and 2

[supple path]

Pretty sure 3 people got hit on 40 man vanilla PW

[sand egret]

maybe a 3rd but that's a bit hazy

either way, the NON main tank got trucked

[supple path]

Because I remember the other healers really aggressively hating my shaman using chain heal on that fight.

[lusty grotto]

yeah i think you're right

[sand egret]

so making sure the order stayed static was huge

it's basically Fetid if I'm understanding Thrash right

(I haven't stepped foot in Uldir)

[lusty grotto]

eh

[sand egret]

biggest thing was that you also really, really didn't want parry

[supple path]

Oh crap

Hateful strike was highest hp in melee range

[sand egret]

ahhh yes!

[lusty grotto]

also highest threat

[sand egret]

the 10k barrier

the reason why Alliance > Horde

Kings

[lusty grotto]

that's why i mentioned it with WB

[sand egret]

yeah that's legit

[supple path]

Salvation, kings, wisdom, might, judgment of light, judgment of wisdom vs windfury totem

was the "balance"

[sand egret]

vicidious would like a word with you

[lusty grotto]

yeah nature resist totem vs farming NR gear

[sand egret]

Huhuran as well

or half of Naxx

aside from Patchwerk

[supple path]

That totem gave 60 NR and didn't stack with motw

it basically equalled out to one piece of resist gear

[sand egret]

as tons of things applied disease/poison

[supple path]

Also: there are literally no bosses in naxx that were easier for horde.

Every boss in that zone was easier for alliance.

[lusty grotto]

really? i wasn't aware they didn't stack

[supple path]

That's my memory anyhow, could be off.

[sand egret]

Eh

[lusty grotto]

i was alliance so i can't say lol

[supple path]

It worked like paladin resist auras

[sand egret]

Patchwerk was the only real one

[supple path]

Sapphiron was 10000x easier for alliance.

Because alliance healers had substantially more mana regen than horde.

[sand egret]

we had mana tide....

lol

[supple path]

Didn't even come CLOSE to competing with judgment/blessing of wisdom

[sand egret]

mmmmm

not how I'm remembering it

[supple path]

A wanding alliance healer on a JoW'd target could get enough mana for a heal in like...5 seconds?

[lusty grotto]

hmm

[sand egret]

yeah but that also meant you had to wand haha

windfury was just so fucking extreme

as an asset

[neon tangle]

I mean, back then not casting for 5+ s was a find strategy

stack spirit

[supple path]

Windfury gave warriors a similar damage boost to kings/might, and gave everyone else less of one.

[sand egret]

true and downrank

[neon tangle]

get that 5s rule out-of-combat mana regen

[supple path]

If you were threat capped, alliance also had massively higher dps due to salvation, but that was situational.

[sand egret]

well the STR bonus from might was = SoE

kings was arguable

[supple path]

Also: each paladin blessed 40 people. each shaman 5.

[neon tangle]

@supple path normally just left the tank in the WF group

so that they could actually keep threat

[supple path]

Yup, I remember those whining warriors well.

"OMG WHY ARE YOU USING GROUNDING TOTEM ON THIS MECHANIC MY WINDFURY BUFF ONLY HAS 7 SECONDS LEFT"

cough but anyhow I'm sort of offtopic derailing now so I'll stop.

[sand egret]

we're also not talking about the elephant in that room that is Lust 😃

[supple path]

lust didn't exist in vanilla

that's why

[neon tangle]

lust didn't exist until BC

[sand egret]

true

man it's been a while

[supple path]

Horde never had it while alliance didn't.

[neon tangle]

I do miss perma-lusting groups

[supple path]

can you even imagine the parse fights these days with old lust mechanics?

"you guys I need 7 bloodlusts for my parse"

[neon tangle]

Imagine m zul w/ perma-lust for the rogues

you know what, I am pretty OK with modern class balance

and no more 5-man-only buffs

[supple path]

Yeah we complain about a 12% gap in dps now.

When back then it was like...80

[solid mist]

I miss windfury totem

[supple path]

I miss windfury WEAPON

And one rounding priests from full

[solid mist]

With 2handers

[supple path]

Yesssss

[fallen gazelle]

I miss tank shaman. Oh wait....

[supple path]

I tanked onyxia on my shaman.

[neon tangle]

Personally my best memories / nightmares were from mace-spec rogues w/ stunhearld

[lusty grotto]

i destroyed mace spec rogues

[supple path]

You could actually self-heal while tanking onyxia as a shaman until you ran out of mana. She hit for that little. Good times.

[lusty grotto]

only glaive rogues gave me a little scare

but that's bc

[neon tangle]

or, was that warriors?

shit, I thought stunhearld was a 1h?