40
#protection
stark sage
yeah it was deserving of a nerf
prisma crane
i can type all once per line too
steel mauve
45
prisma crane
but it's more that other shit is just not good enough
sand egret
how is that not super OP. we got kids in here asking if they should upgrade a 340 over a 385
that shouldnt even be a question
prisma crane
so a $1 bill is OP because you only compare it to pennies?
severe zinc
They did it for them kidz
sand egret
Lala shouldn't even need to make that statement
it should have been the significantly higher pieces
primal crypt
For the kidz
chrome falcon
Krotos is correct, every trait should be as powerful as DC
prisma crane
^ then you have decisions
earnest zinc
The DC nerf will cripple us
sand egret
no
clear delta
im not even using dc
prisma crane
it wont cripple us
urban walrus
rofl - that was actually funny
earnest zinc
You are bad if you aren't using DC
lusty grotto
i copied this
neon tangle
@earnest zinc scroll up and read Marok's post
urban walrus
'it will cripple us' - comedian right here
chrome harbor
Can rng make someone bad?
clear delta
not if you cant get DC gear to drop lol
chrome falcon
Callous Reprisals DR should be relevant, BFI's buff should last longer than 9 seconds, etc etc
supple path
I really don't understand the numbers Marok is using for demo duration during avatar there.
prisma crane
but they'd rather give us different flavors of gray than actually interesting abilities that could affect our gameplay, hell, legendaries did it better, at least there we had a few options here and there, even if niche
chrome falcon
me neither @supple path, doesn't 18 seconds of DS duration during Avatar imply that you're casting 5 TCs per avatar?
supple path
Yeah.
digital arrow
Lmao crippled. Uninstalling game now. Bye guys
severe zinc
I would care more about situstionally powerful traits if I could swap gear in dungeons
chrome falcon
Isn't that like... half of the actual amount? @fierce juniper Could you clarify?
earnest zinc
I'm able to overlap Demo with Avatar
chrome falcon
Oh unless he means
sick sentinel
They just posted the M+ currency prices and stuff. 2-3 weeks doing +10 for a 385 random piece, 6 weeks for a targeted one.
chrome falcon
Casting Avatar generates 18 seconds of DS uptime
supple path
I don't think it was correctly reflecting that the reduced CD means you're increasing the duration, thus giving more room for more casts?
chrome falcon
On top of the baseline duration of DS being ~12 seconds
That would make more sense
prisma crane
and FFS, give us reflective plating back, or at minimum, let us keep the damn DR even if we reflected a spell
brave vine
@sick sentinel has anyone tried gear tho?
chrome falcon
Yeah the massive QoL nerf to SR in this expansion fucking triggers me @prisma crane
sand egret
SR has two buffs
sick sentinel
What do you mean tried gear?
brave vine
scrapping gear, my bad
sick sentinel
Still nothing for now, they posted it 10 mins ago so kinda fresh ground
steel mauve
I mean the dc nerf wont cripple us, its a much needed balance, imo it needed nerfed and other traits kinda need brought in line with it, no trait should be worth 3 tiers of ilvl
brave vine
yeah. i think 2-3 weeks might be 1.5-2 with emissaries and raid drops
sand egret
if we could SR everything for an hour...we'd have some hilarious videos
chrome falcon
DC did not need to be nerfed until we get buffed to a place where DC is too powerful
chrome harbor
Not to mention balancing us around a trait seems like a bad idea
supple path
I just hope my bag of 20 azerite items sends me to glorious Valhalla.
chrome falcon
DC is not too powerful for the current iteration of prot warrior
prisma crane
you say the 3 tiers thing because you're missing the point: imo, all traits (if in a vaccum) should be worth 3 tiers of ilvls
supple path
And it's not only for new items.
digital arrow
Feeling crippled being able to make a harder choice between my 390 shoulders without dc or my 355 with dc
sand egret
shh
brave vine
@supple path they said it is, but you know blizz, thats gonna be a day 1 maybe
earnest zinc
Spell reflecting mythrax would be hilarious
chrome falcon
By the way @sand egret Would you like me to read the tooltip of spell reflect to you
sick sentinel
You won't be able to scrap azerite gear you have now, only the one that drops after the patch/change to currency
chrome falcon
Because the last part of it says "Lasts 5 seconds or until you reflect a spell"
prisma crane
it's a cone though, you couldnt reflect cones before
steel mauve
A trait is too powerful if its literally worth 3 tiers of ilvls
earnest zinc
Guilds would be able to kill mythic mythrax in LFR gear
dull pilot
give us the legion spell ref and i will be happy
steel mauve
Thats 45 complete ilvls, it shouldnt be worth that
digital arrow
Still laughing at how some of us think sky is falling with DC being in-line with other traits
earnest zinc
You would use a Prot Warrior, 5 healers, and 4 dps
sick sentinel
You could reflect Mythrax on the beta actually. Fun times.
prisma crane
it woudlnt be worth 45 ilvls if the others were on par
chrome falcon
Man
earnest zinc
In terrible gear
chrome falcon
You can reflect the debuff from the last boss in shrine
If your group is out of range
steel mauve
You could give mythrax annihilation stacks on beta
chrome falcon
When I reflected it a few weeks ago I was so hyped
But it doesn't actually 1 shot the boss
Never lucky
sand egret
which one?
chrome falcon
The damage/hp reduction one
I thought it might reduce his max hp by 10% every 2 seconds
Like it does to players
But it doesn't
sand egret
lol
chrome falcon
Thought I had finally found a reason to bring a prot warrior to an instance
sand egret
SotS +17 MUST BE PROT WAR
digital arrow
Lmao
chrome harbor
thats trippy to read even as a joke
primal crypt
@chrome falcon you're doing 15+ right?
earnest zinc
Doing that might put us on par with BDK for that instance
primal crypt
what comp you running these days
chrome falcon
Seriously though @sand egret the DR and reflect ability on SR are the same thing, if you reflect a spell you lose the DR
@primal crypt I am when it's not grievous sanguine fortified :)))
@primal crypt Not a fixed comp but generally me+rogue+balance+resto druid
last spot is pretty flex
sick sentinel
Ok but lets be real here
primal crypt
resto is preferred healer?
sick sentinel
How does this affect us getting 45% haste
chrome falcon
Nah but he's the one that enjoys pushing keys the most
prisma crane
travex runs with a disc, so there's that
chrome falcon
I like druid and paladin
prisma crane
druids work well with how we take damage
chrome falcon
But anything can work as long as each of you knows the others capabilities
prisma crane
disc if you're doing keys that high
prisma crane
people don't do 17+ without knowing what they're doing...
chrome falcon
Ok
Here's the actual important shit
We need our unique SS animation back
From EN
Getting that sick shoulder barge when you SS'd with 3 stacks of FR felt so fucking good
And I miss it
sand egret
how does one celebrate getting a 380 shield.....?
zinc mauve
dying
prisma crane
do a helicopter
chrome falcon
When no-one is looking I open doors by shoulder barging them like that
clear delta
scrap it
chrome harbor
ravager and dance around it
supple path
Touch yourself while watching a trash mob melee you and get blocked I think.
prisma crane
@chrome falcon i do that anyways, less effort, but if i dont turn the handle enough... oof, bad door frame
chrome falcon
Also could someone remind me
Is block going to scale stupidly fucking well in this expansion
I thought I saw someone say that it is
prisma crane
so you're saying, you've seen healers get carried through 17s this expac?
primal crypt
well...no
fierce juniper
@chrome falcon @supple path
The ~18 seconds is a bit conservative, but yes you generally get 18-22 second Demo Shouts when paired with Avatar. 5-7 casts. Mainly because you're spending GCDs on Shield Slams or IP where you could be casting TC. It's a more realistic way to look at it.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bkr4BQdPmxyRYAKX#fight=last&type=casts&source=21&pins=0%24Separate%24%23909049%24casts%240%240.0.0.Any%24163069296.0.0.Warrior%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%246343^2%24Off%24%23909049%24auras-cast%240%240.0.0.Any%24163069296.0.0.Warrior%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24107574%24true%24true&ability=6343
primal crypt
just previous experience
stark sage
@chrome falcon they periodically adjust the K value for block so it doesnt scale like crazy
primal crypt
Legion experience
fierce juniper
You can also look at Demo Shout uptime in that log and see the same thing, 18-22 seconds windows where Avatar was cast.
primal crypt
weak argument - but that wasn't my point lol
prisma crane
@stark sage yea can't wait for patches to hit, new K value, and we're instantly nerfed on content we just did the previous week
chrome falcon
@fierce juniper I could be wrong but I think it's wildly incorrect to SS during avatar when you could TC
stark sage
i imagine it wouldnt be done mid tier
chrome falcon
2 extra seconds on DS seems way better than the extra rage from SS
prisma crane
it would be done at the start of a tier
stark sage
so being nerfed on old content is w/e
cedar flax
Question for the group - how are people feeling about the upcoming 8.1 changes. It seems to be a little underwhelming.
primal crypt
I was actually going to point out that I didn't realize disc was meant for the higher keys because I've ran into so many that had no idea what they're supposed to do
sand egret
pfff
prisma crane
but that still affects M+ and such
sand egret
@cedar flax you just kicked the hornets nest. grab some popcorn and start reading
prisma crane
no one else gets insta nerfed the same way unless im mistaken
stark sage
i think there is a different k value for m+ but i dont know how it all works
chrome falcon
I make it my absolute priority to TC as much as possible during Avatar and it seems to do well for me
You generate 10 less rage but you get 2 extra seconds on DS
primal crypt
@prisma crane I thought disc had pretty much fallen off the "push" train
prisma crane
@primal crypt disc is difficult to play properly, could say it's the prot warrior of heals, but actually difficult, but if played well it's a solid healer, with absorbs and DR (better when damage is REAL high) and does high dps as well
chrome falcon
That's 20% reduction on a melee swing in most encounters, 10 rage is 1/4 of an IP which is definitely soaking less damage than 20% of a melee swing
I suppose you are losing CDR from AM if you play it that way
chrome falcon
Damn can you imagine our ST dps if we can just go SS->TC repeat during Avatar
supple path
Disc priests take the proactivity requirements of prot warriors and up them like 3x
primal crypt
I want one of those disc
chrome falcon
No need to waste our time using globals on IP
primal crypt
my god
crystal night
Yamorino are you highmountain on area 52?
primal crypt
yeah I am
stark sage
healer representation and balance in m+ is fairly okay
crystal night
nice
sand egret
oh yeah disc is definitely a handful haha
crystal night
i am highmountain too
primal crypt
Highmountain > All
chrome falcon
@prisma crane I feel like hard and unforgiving are synonymous
supple path
Minus the poor shaman situation, yeah.
sand egret
*minus Spicey Boi
prisma crane
@chrome falcon not really
sand egret
my beard is literally on fire.
primal crypt
fine, they can be on par
prisma crane
something can be difficult without being unforgiving, and something can be very simple, but one mistake is death
sand egret
Canadian Tauren = Spicy Boi. Confirmed.
fierce juniper
@chrome falcon Yeah, that's fair. You're still casting IPs though. A few extra TCs isn't gonna have too much affect on the overall reduction in DS uptime. The main point still stands in that it's a ~15% reduction to DS uptime, give or take a few %.
primal crypt
@prisma crane spittin hot fire
prisma crane
i'd say they often go hand in hand, but can be mutually exclusive
prot is very simple, we SB we IP we build rage
but, we miss time stuff, we often die
neon tangle
Also even healer representation (particularly disc) might be better explained by BDK self healing
prisma crane
that's not complex, it's unforgiving
chrome falcon
@fierce juniper Fair, but hypothetically it is a bigger reduction considering IP is coming off GCD, so you actually WOULD be getting much higher DS uptime in 8.1 without the change. Like I'm pretty confident we would be hitting 100% DS uptime in mythic BoD. I guess we'll never know at this point. I guess it's a big nerf to our potential in the future, rather than the present.
prisma crane
managing buffs on many targets and watching HP and dots, etc, that's more difficult
supple path
Always felt like healers have the highest skill ceiling because they're reacting to what other players are doing, rather than NPCs
sand egret
I think it's a relatively fair comparison, if just isolated from tank to tank tho
chrome falcon
I'd really like to see this accompanied by a buff to Vengeance and Devastator or a nerf to BV so we have an actual choice on that row
prisma crane
i'd take lack of choice over a BV nerf...
neon tangle
@chrome falcon I think IP off the GCD and vengeance would be fun
chrome falcon
Vengeance and Deva were like my 2 favourite talents at various points in Legion (excluding AM obviously)
I'd really like to be able to play with them again
Juggling Vengeance off the GCD was the most fun I have ever had as prot warrior
The problem with Vengeance right now is that Revenge is a fucking terrible ability
prisma crane
original vengeance was the most fun i've ever had as a prot warrior
chrome falcon
And... so is IP
fresh dragon
soo.. how it is this warrior 8.1? 😄
prisma crane
from MoP
chrome falcon
@prisma crane Please do not talk about original Vengeance without a trigger warning, I get INTENSE episodes of nostalgia whenever we talk about it in here and it's not good for my mental health
prisma crane
hahaha fair enough
obtuse venture
wait so ranged physical attacks are blockable in 8.1?
prisma crane
gimme T21 with OG vengeance
obtuse venture
pics or it didnt happen
sand egret
scroll up
wicked ridge
that is indeed what it says
sand egret
there are pics
chrome falcon
old vengeance was the ABSOLUTE WORST DESIGN CHOICE in the history of world of warcraft
0 question
6 debuff limit on mobs was not as bad as original vengeance
fresh dragon
war prot 8.1 is ok or should i continue to play BrM?
prisma crane
but it was fun
chrome falcon
BrM still looks better
fresh dragon
ok
chrome falcon
it was fun for us krotos
clear delta
sand egret
I'm not going to unpack that statement, but I will say I wasn't a fan for my own reasons
chrome falcon
it made all the dps and healers in the raid feel totally fucking useless
"oh look the tank is top dps and healer, again"
prisma crane
and it was fun
chrome falcon
yep
prisma crane
lol
chrome falcon
sure was
clear delta
dumb af tho
prisma crane
but, it also wasn't super easy to exploit the most outt of it
chrome falcon
mm
prisma crane
was a big balancing act
chrome falcon
i dunno if i agree with that
i never ever felt like "ok i'm going to let this attack hit me unmitigated so i get more vengeance"
i stood in fire on purpose sometimes i guess
prisma crane
i stood in everything
chrome falcon
being able to solo tank the last boss of the expansion on 10m heroic was nice
sand egret
I turned around
prisma crane
everything
primal crypt
lol you guys
prisma crane
someone has rogues
prisma crane
ah true
chrome falcon
wants to drop frozen orb and blizzard on them
the rogues do no damage to the crawgs
plus we only have 3 of them
feelsbadman
prisma crane
use them for combo stacking
chrome falcon
3 rogues and too many melee in the guild so i can't recruit more
yeah dude dw i know about that, i mean "relatively" no damage
prisma crane
yea
chrome falcon
shuriken storm does very low damage compared to the other stuff hitting them
other stuff like thunderclaps
hypothetically
not that i would dps whore on the crawgs on progression
ahem
prisma crane
oh yea, i just mean without classes that ST benefit from aoe there's no reason to keep them up unless parsing
fresh dragon
Ignore Pain Fight through the pain, ignoring 50% of damage taken, up to [(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)] total damage prevented.
Cooldown changed from None to 0.5 sec cooldown
neon tangle
Padding on zul and getting mistaken for a dps is about the most fun I’ve had so far
fresh dragon
isnt this a nerf??
chrome falcon
No
It's off the GCD now
Think about it, if it was on the GCD, why would it need a .5 second cooldown
fresh dragon
ahhh ok
vocal nimbus
Read the pin takkero
chrome falcon
The cooldown would just timeout during its natural GCD anyway
Hey american friends could one of you please win the lotto and pay Ion 1 billion dollars to re-add original vengeance to the game
sick sentinel
Fuck all that
chrome falcon
But just for prot warriors
sick sentinel
WE CAN FINALLY BLOCK THROW ROCK
chrome falcon
Yes, we will truly be the kings of those 4 mobs in Tol Dagor now
No-one can stop us on our meteoric rise to the top
prisma crane
lol, buying the tickets to win now
sand egret
eyyyy
sick sentinel
We can no longer smell what he has cooking
solid bronze
Would love to Rock the Block instead
clear delta
block the cock?
dull pilot
block the rockcock
solid bronze
Block the Sock*
sand egret
well now we can finally get Wrenched from the Bench!
clear delta
knock the spock
solid bronze
Reading the mmo-champion thread on the changes
sick sentinel
Man I feel like I cursed us into this position. I used to laugh at hunters who got benched cause of their 1 spec being dog shit
solid bronze
So this is what getting cancer feels like
sick sentinel
And I remember saying that it would never happen to prot warriors
lusty grotto
maybe you should read the pins instead @solid bronze
chrome falcon
I'm going to bed now but I just want to clarify my position on why I think these changes are overall neutral. I think when we first hit 8.1 we will be stronger (obviously), and I think we're 100% stronger in m+ (but not better at the stuff we need to be better at), but when you get up to like 410 ilvl or whatever mythic BoD is, we would be stronger without a cap on DC.
At that point (especially if we have another Reorigination Array in BoD) we would definitely be getting easy 100% uptime on DS even in long raid encounters.
100% uptime on 20% DR and Damage Done would be far more impactful than a minor buff to Vanguard and CDR on Shield Block, again considering that the extra gear from mythic BoD would be increasing our uptime on SB and LS to the degree that we would easily have 100% effective block uptime.
solid bronze
Nah, already have the info I want, did it for the entertainment value
But starting to doubt my decision
lusty grotto
oh i see
solid bronze
Feels like one of those "it was a shitshow obviously" bits
sick sentinel
I actually stopped playing prot for a weeks when M+ came out because I kept visiting reddit
chrome falcon
Anyway, I'm going to bed. Have a good one my dudes.
solid bronze
NN
chrome falcon
Remember to hate everything blizzard does because it's never good enough
sick sentinel
It actually affected me and even my performance because I actually started to believe that crap
sand egret
so damn true
I kinda felt the same way. Stumbled up in here realized I was totally messing up and now I've got a whole new appreciation for it
clear delta
reddit likes to upvote minor complaints and blow them way out of proportion
solid bronze
Other way around for me, felt so god damn squishy, having to blow cooldowns in trash for crummy low key stuff and I was like "what the hell is going on? What am I doing wrong?"
elder steppe
how is the DC change a nerf to damage?
solid bronze
And reading everyone else's experiences calmed me a bit
sand egret
it's tough when every other tanking class acts one way, and we are not
sick sentinel
I only came here not for help but to see if anyone was thinking like I was or going through the same shit I was
sand egret
so I feel ya, on that front @solid bronze
solid bronze
Yeah, don't remember ever being on the bottom of the pile
ember arrow
@chrome falcon fyi, the 15% armor nerf to dk is already neutered, since boneshield is 50% of STR now, instead of 40%, making dks get more armor than before with gear
solid bronze
Feels bad man
sand egret
and our resident BDK is back 😃
chrome falcon
@ember arrow This is why I think BDK needs to be removed from the game 😃
ember arrow
because... their armor?
solid bronze
Yeah, lets get rid of the spooky bois
elder steppe
ok i see, people are going crazy, i think we are still gonna have real good aoe damage
sand egret
they mean literally. Like literally get rid of their armor
elder steppe
seems like what 6-8 secs on DS?
sand egret
"Blood can no longer equip armor"
sick sentinel
That'd be actually cool
solid bronze
Absorbs damage by sheer willpower?
sick sentinel
They use blood so they can use things related to make up for it
light oasis
Damn. Block the rock actually happening sweet!
solid bronze
Nah, that sounds to good, I'm still waiting for my invisible chest piege transmog
sand egret
they are only allowed to wear belts and pants, but no shoes
chrome falcon
"NEW Thrive in Chaos Each Fury / Pain spent heals you for 10 / 25 Health."
HOLY SHIT FUCK YOU BLIZZARD
YOU TOOK OUR BRACERS AND GAVE THEM TO VDH
solid bronze
(
chrome falcon
This isn't fair REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
sand egret
just when you thought you were going to bed
ember arrow
i thought you didnt like bracers?
solid bronze
Bracers were bae
ember arrow
rage ---> hp isnt exclusive to legion leggos
chrome falcon
Also, I did like bracers, I thought they were great, they just wouldn't be good right now
ember arrow
fair enough
solid bronze
But it would be cool to have a trait that did rage spent -> IP shield
chrome falcon
@solid bronze Like every rage you spend goes into a buff for your next IP? That could be cool
clear delta
they just need to link rage generation to how pissed of the wow subreddit is
prisma crane
but it's a good thought @chrome falcon
clear delta
never have to worry about being rage starved again
solid bronze
@chrome falcon That could work but I meant actually adding a small amount of IP shield directly
solid bronze
You would be adding more all the time
chrome falcon
OH
clear delta
it would last longer if it was a bigger bubble
chrome falcon
You mean spending rage applies a small IP or something?
solid bronze
Yeah
chrome falcon
It wouldn't work if it only added to an existing IP
solid bronze
Like casting a weak IP
chrome falcon
Not very interesting though
solid bronze
It would be like a small trickle of self healing the bracers gave
But more in line with the flavor of prot warr
chrome falcon
Sure but it wouldn't actually add any gameplay decisions or anything
Would just make us like BrM where we take less damage overall
solid bronze
Yeah, it would be a gearing choice, not a second to second decision
Most traits don't really create new decisions during a rotation anyway
If you took it maybe Never Surrender would become a better talent
sick sentinel
They need to just remove NS and Indom and give is that baseline
Never seen anyone used back then and esp not now
cinder nova
Old and new vengeance was dumb
Cata I would literally eat 4-5 stacks of impale on heroic deathwing
Just to do autismo dps
cinder nova
Even MoP vengeance I cheesed
sick sentinel
Good
sick sentinel
Fuck dps and fuck healers kiss the ass end of my shield
cinder nova
That trinket was dumb as fuck
solid bronze
I just want Legion Devastator back 😦
cinder nova
Ditto
Hitting Devastate ever
feels so bad
Does nothing
"oh but ss reset"
So does rev and TC
and I get shitloads of em
sick sentinel
I wish blocking reset ss
solid bronze
Except when you don't
sick sentinel
Or crit blocks reset ss
solid bronze
Blocking resetting shield slam would be omega op in aoe scenarios
sick sentinel
Good
solid bronze
Haha
sick sentinel
U think I'm gonna be opposed to op when bdks are a fucking thing?
Awesome every tank can walk faster than a bdk
Can every tank grip adds?
And no dhs don't count
sick sentinel
Shit ain't a grip, just like vortex isn't a grip either
lusty grotto
well VDH can do sigil of chains :p
sick sentinel
Might as well fucking call RoP a grip because it can move people to the right spot
That's why I said that dhs don't count cause it's more a displacement then it is a grip
sick sentinel
I see no hands
cinder nova
That's exactly what it does.
sick sentinel
There for it's not a grip
lusty grotto
uhh how is it a displacement, it pulls mobs in
sick sentinel
It needs to have hands
cinder nova
Not sure if trolling or autism
sick sentinel
If the joke didn't land, I can't help you
cinder nova
"I was only pretending to be retarded."
Regardless, devastate needs to git gud or git out.
Shit filler does nothing garbage output
sick sentinel
"Pretending"
cinder nova
generally just miserable to exist.
clear delta
get callous reprisal and use revenge instead
lusty grotto
me wooshed
cinder nova
You're using rev almost every other GCD during avatar to burn rage when you don't have a proc
Because hitting IP is butts unless it's for a fat windup that's hypertelegraphed
aka zek
solid bronze
Looking at the top builds over at https://www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/warrior/protection there's still quite a bit of people going devastator...
cinder nova
yikers
sick sentinel
We should start collecting anyone saying the dumbest and worst things about us with their name and have it on a wall of shame here so for the inevitable FoM when we get it, we can look back and see if they were one of them
obtuse venture
did they up the IP shield or cap at all?
winter aspen
Where are you finding these prot changes ?
solid bronze
forest fern
so does the new tooltip for IP with the .5 second cooldown mean that its now off the gcd?
forest fern
like if they reduces the recharge on shield block and added that i assume they both are now off the gcd otherwise i don't understand that change
solid bronze
Would be dumb not too
forest fern
if not than its a nerf for no reason so thats what i'm going with just sucks there is no way to tell unless you're on the ptr using the spell i guess from its tooltip
astral crystal
god damn my guild has down's at zul
merry cave
The 0.5 sec gcd is the same as charge I think
hazy flame
Obviously not
solid bronze
Nothing is ever enough
forest fern
well those are the "rotational flow" changes at this stage
elder tusk
I was hoping for a utility buff to be honest
merry cave
No
forest fern
the buffs if necessary are probably waiting for testing of it
brazen owl
didnt know 5% more armor is rotational flow
solid bronze
Was hoping for Devastator to not be crap
merry cave
They will help with raids for sure. But the m+ issue has nothing to do with tankyness
forest fern
block has a lower recharge, IP off the gcd by the look of it
hazy flame
Considering once you account for the loss of DC uptime trait it's 100% a net nerf overall.
forest fern
you need to re read it
merry cave
We still have no utility
forest fern
that nerf is just to stop you getting stupid long extensions of it with avatar
merry cave
The DC nerf is frustrating but not unexpected
solid bronze
They're making a part of DC baseline basically
forest fern
no it was going to happan, i didn't see an avatar nerf and thats what i expected instead honestly
solid bronze
And removing IP from the GCD
forest fern
you won could have been way worse
narrow abyss
Ay 370 shield
winter aspen
T21 2p should be made a talent
hazy flame
@forest fern right. Which is fine. And I also agree that was it too strong. The point stands however... Prot with that trait is bad. Prot without that trait is even worse and the other changes don't make up for it.
winter aspen
or azerite trait
forest fern
i think you'd be suprised how much a quicker shield block and non gcd ip adds in the long run
i expect IP to be buffed in power also you just aren't going to see that until testing is done with this change
winter aspen
What about self healing ? still nothing
forest fern
you aren't supposed to have any
forest fern
you have the highest physical mitigation in the game
final mist
Guess what most damage in the game tanks take?
forest fern
right most of what you take to the face is that it just isn't felt
winter aspen
magical- almost none
hazy flame
Physical melee *
merry cave
Mannarotj baseline with rage gen wouldn't do that much
final mist
Not true.
winter aspen
it would when IP is back to legion form, should speed up rotation a bit
final mist
RPS right now is about the same as it was in EN, and bracers were as broken then as they were in ABT.
forest fern
i mean if you have "visage" trait aren't you almost already sort of getting that if you have it on a few azerite pieces, granted to ideal to have to search out those pieces but shrug
winter aspen
Those 3rd row talents are too random
Im glad when I can get the 30 sec shield and not speed on kill
clear delta
370 Rezan's or 370 Xalzaix's?
hazy flame
I love that Blizzard just decides to stop pushing balance changes to live and start stacking them up in 8.1. I wonder why..
forest fern
i guess cause its probably closer than you think to release
merry cave
How is ip back to legion form?
winter aspen
no gcd
forest fern
i think he means works the same, not in power level
final mist
Changing talents or abilities has never been something they've done just straight up to live, without testing.
winter aspen
yeah power lvl not even close ofc
final mist
Hotfixes / number tuning is entirely different.
merry cave
No gcd doesn't make it close to legion
The whole IP gcd thing is so blown out of proportion
forest fern
no absorbs in general are close to legion, that was a game wide alteration
forest fern
you're jumping on it before any other changes are seen they haven't tested anything yet, this is to fix the horrible feel of the class when you play it
which honestly is the worse part of prot
i can make prot work in hard content, i can't make it feel better to play
solid bronze
Stop asking for self healing, we don't get that, a warrior is not a dk or paladin or whatever
solid bronze
Sure
supple path
I ranked up my neck and got a new item and now heal 8k every 6s while tanking. weee.
winter aspen
you cant have less and no healing at all
solid bronze
And more abilities generating IP maybe
supple path
basically a dk over here.
winter aspen
atleast 1 solid magic defensive not spell reflect
tame mountain
if the rps between single and multi target tanking was closer, that would be great
forest fern
also if you get a buff to IP you effectively get a buff to self healing, its a form of healing by creating higher effective health
its just doing it in a different way
final mist
Warriors have baseline more defensive abilities / cooldowns than other tanks, and that's not taking into account AM.
supple path
IP is pretty strictly mitigation, not healing
solid bronze
It's kind of like temporary healing
midnight ferry
so are we OP now?
solid bronze
No
winter aspen
haha
forest fern
thats not the argument
also the OP ones have nerfs coming according to their Q and A anyway
tame mountain
you could be one? lol
forest fern
honestly IP off the gcd is already making it more enjoyable immediately, if anyone actually likes it the way it is you're nuts
winter aspen
Any new traits for prot ?
final mist
Not yet.
tame mountain
deafening crash got tweaked
mystic trellis
You can keep it up until the next demo cast with avatar
winter aspen
lol
final mist
DC rightfully deserved the nerf, IMO. As long as the balance of power of shifted back into the baseline spec (which it largely has been), then it's fine.
@midnight ferry Not the place.
cinder nova
mfw a +8 waycrest can't get their shit together and keep dying on first boss
• Didn't kill explosives, I had to do almost all of them
• Stood still during second sister
• No MD on the MC'd mage under Ice Block
• "warriors suck lol thanks for bombing the key noob"
I'm so close to losing my mind.
final mist
@cinder nova Also not the place for meme images.
tame mountain
oh deafening crash is a straight buff. It's extends the duration "by 2 seconds, up to 6 seconds"
obtuse venture
@cinder nova this weeks affix is do a 10 then log off. kinda like last week.
sick sentinel
Nah this week is easy
Last week was hard for sure
Just need ur melee to actually kill bombs
regal island
ew those 8.1 prot changes
sick sentinel
Or time ur SS righf
regal island
goodbye avatar tc spam demo love
steel mauve
Its not as bad as it seems
supple path
Haven't ran anything yet this week, what sort of HP was on the explosives?
regal island
yeah they are just doing it to devalue the AZ trait but it's kinda like kicking out the crutch.
steel mauve
Except we are also getting buffed with both sb cd and another passive buff too along with other possible changes
neon tangle
I mean, kicking out the crutch and replacing it with more mitigation elsewhere
regal island
it doesn't really translate to a buff though, especially with the current IP design.
neon tangle
Ignoring IP, the buffs to SB and vanguard more than make up for it
cinder nova
@tame mountain Uh...
It stops the extending duration at a total of 6s meaning 3 TCs.
Total duration possible from 1 demo is 14s
It's a nerf
tame mountain
oh wait I gotchya
neon tangle
IP changes will be very good for tanking packs of shit in m+, overall I think it’s a fairly good set of changes
tame mountain
welp
neon tangle
Albeit still punishing for new people
hazy flame
How can those buffs possibly make up for the loss of that DS uptime?
regal island
physical ranged attacks are blockable now.... so thats interesting
like ghuun ceiling falling is physical damage etc.
tame mountain
oh thats cool, makes sense
steel mauve
You're acting like those are literally the only buffs we are getting
sick sentinel
Expecting more is like a child born a month before Christmas
tame mountain
the shield block change is nice but not amazing
regal island
eh so <5% armor
sick sentinel
Esp since they implied that we may not see a majority of our changes in 8.1
regal island
IP maybe off GCD.... thank you baby jesus
tame mountain
yeah that feels alot better
regal island
it would be ok on gcd if you could cap it much higher like in early legion
3x your health as IP buffer would be nice if you spent the rage to get it up
but it makes warriors too EZ mode
regal island
put the same mechanic just opposite on a monk via stagger and it's ok? seems weird
sick sentinel
Just give me bdk death strike
They won't need it after 8.1 they just got shotgunned
regal island
yeah poor dk's
broken kite
Poor babies
woeful reef
Where did you see shield can block phys ranged attacks?
solid bronze
@woeful reef Undocumented, people have tested it on the PTR
woeful reef
Interesting, the tooltip still says melee only but that would be good if it was in there
regal island
makes sense to block arrows if you have a shield lol
sick sentinel
Makes sense to block literally everything that isn't magic
Huh
Why not take a page from brm with their magic stagger talent and either make SB block magic like that trait does
tame mountain
yeah if a bolt of ice hits you in the face, it will hurt more than having it hit your shield
sick sentinel
Or have SR be removed and do something like if u have SB up when hit by a cast it reflects it but leaves a like a dot of damage u take
Give me stagger basically
gray plinth
but that'd be too cool, and we're supposed to be bland remember?
cinder nova
@sick sentinel Don't you know?
Our SR class fantasy is a magical shield polish that always replenishes but after using it it needs 25 seconds to fill properly
digital arrow
need to pick up a mirror shield from ocarina of time
sick sentinel
I hate everything about that statement and it's getting me angry re reading it
cinder nova
Man, INR
Never play Pathfinder/3.5
You'll lose your mind with how garbage fighters are
At least without weeaboo fighting magic BoNS
sick sentinel
I get it we can't use magic because we are the most "realistic" class cause we don't use magic like other classes and specs but still
We have mages that can fucking warp time on all specs, but no warriors can't spell reflect like in Legion
Cause that doesn't fit the class fantasy
sick sentinel
Pretty much
icy basalt
do you guys find yourself debating b/w haste and vers/mastery?
supple path
nope.
sick sentinel
Nah
icy basalt
hmm
i have some stuff that has haste but with crit
but the others hast vers/ mastery
and higher ilvl (by 5)
icy basalt
even at only 5 ivl ?
solid bronze
If it's marginal ilvl gain like 5 I would say go for appropriate stats
icy basalt
except for rings right?
stark wraith
Correct rings are secondary stats only
dull granite
so when will 8.1 hit. Guesses? Thanksgiving?
raven kernel
Test on rocks pls
woeful reef
Pretty big change for pallys too I would assume
sick sentinel
Who cares about palys
supple path
Sometimes I care when I want a freedom or BoP.
sick sentinel
did they just make the bis trait even better? 🤔
gray patrol
Good to see IP off GCD but they should also make it so u can stack it 2-3 or even 4 times. We got 0 heals might as well let us do something to help our healers with something
sick sentinel
deafening crash is now up to 6 sec.
gray patrol
That's a nerf
sick sentinel
I like the ignore pain changes though
gray patrol
Which isn't a bad thing tbh, wish they'd scrap this whole avatar spam thunderclap bs, should put the damage into our abilities instead of some cooldown (and obviously nerf the current damage)
neat lagoon
anyone mind answering some Azerite Trait questions I have in a separate message?
basically is it worth stacking 2 Uldir Arrays?
like a Deaf Crash and than 2 arrays or no? like if im outside of Uldir are they worth it
sick sentinel
they also changed the scaling to pure attack power
[(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)]
[ 700% of Attack Power ]
dusky mica
2 arrays, defensively, in dungeons is worse than most of the other good outer ring traits
supple path
Generally no Ryan, unless your other trait options are just truly bad.
dusky mica
even 1 is pointless in 5mans
stone crag
depends on what tooltip you're looking at @sick sentinel wowdb and wowhead show differently
don't look too deep into it
sick sentinel
what does the ingame ptr one say?
stone crag
in game tooltips don't show the formula
sick sentinel
yes but you can compare the value vs live
stone crag
i'm almost certain it didn't change
crystal night
Any tips for surging darkness on mythic zekvos?
warm pelican
Don’t stand in it
frank valley
👋
hot stag
dusky mica
Unless IP stacks a bit more too I'm not sure how great this change will be
It will alleviate the pull piano nightmare we currently have and we'll possibly gain a bit more rage from the saved gcd
supple path
It also allows us to be more reactive and hit it specifically when we want the mitigation rather than work it into our rotation.
dusky mica
yeah sure, but is it still only 30k?
supple path
Sure, though you can pool rage/chain 2 back-to-back in a much more feasible way now.
or even 3 because you're generating rage during it
Hard to quantify the effect of that, but will make it "feel" a lot better for me.
dusky mica
It'll play better but I dont think it's gonna make us good for M+
cinder nova
Just compare healing done now vs. PTR
We'll have more of a reason to push IP
So it should reflect it
dusky mica
Warrior, master of battle. Has zero control, no CC, worst tank slow.
cinder nova
And since absorbs only count towards healing when they take damage
supple path
god did they really need to nerf our slow.
But yeah, zero utility changes to address m+ stuff thus far.
dusky mica
I dont mind nerfing tank slows, as long as all tanks have shit slows
mossy ember
does anyone use any general tank weakauras for uldir?
dusky mica
the 20% on tclap is almost 0 in an online game where you are getting melee hit from 15yrds away on your screen
dusky mica
nah man, mobs hit you when youre visibly out of range, its always been like this
supple path
I mean it's not 0, but it's also not enough, yeah.
raven kernel
they also changed the scaling to pure attack power
[(0 + Attack power * 3.5) * (1 + Versatility)]
[ 700% of Attack Power ]
@sick sentinel is that double now?
Double ap minus vers benefit
Which means mastery >>> vers
sick sentinel
wow talk about dropping the ball
I knew bombs was gonna get fixed
I had a feeling, because I knew which bosses were gonna be a problem
thank god it was done right away
stone crag
@raven kernel nothing changed
steel mauve
Its not
junior ivy
promise?
steel mauve
Just every thing hurts more and the circle aoe he does around him happens much faster and 4 times instead of 3
stuck oxide
screenshoted and sent to your RL
junior ivy
hahah im the worst at preparing for raids
stuck oxide
you are tanking on warrior ?
raven kernel
Nothing new for tanks
raven kernel
Just that P1 and p2 is combined
obtuse venture
i prepare by drinking a lot
raven kernel
But no new mechanic
junior ivy
ok.. i'm scared
stuck oxide
Use SR for the void hit and you can have Last Stand ( Boltser ) for every combo if u manage your rage well enought with AM
junior ivy
what whats am again
raven kernel
Pretty much just don't hit raid with lash and ur fine
stuck oxide
anger management
junior ivy
oh yeh
junior ivy
😦
cinder nova
Shield block 1/2 into lash cast
steel mauve
Arent
cinder nova
Or just LS every combo you take 2 hits from
junior ivy
you guys are scaring me
cinder nova
It's really easy
It's so boring for me I'm literally just trying to cleave parse scumbag
cinder nova
Tell him to get a mic and he's a potato
steel mauve
Ya... i feel like a tank is almost required to speak vocally
sick sentinel
just read the new pins
cinder nova
And if he says he can't/wont that he needs to listen to your every command
cinder nova
I don't talk much either, because tanking doesn't need constant comms
junior ivy
i only speak if its relaly necessary
sick sentinel
and they are big
cinder nova
But I'll tell my cotank to taunt/do thing/etc.
steel mauve
I had a tank who wouldnt get a mic and just whispered every thing to me even mid figt
junior ivy
lolol
sick sentinel
@steel mauve SAME
steel mauve
I had to replace him, because he wouldnt get one
cinder nova
What a muppet
junior ivy
my old guild made fun of me cause i was main tank but id say lkike.. 5 words an entire raid
i talk a little more now but not a lot more
cinder nova
My last cotank was a BDK in ATB that was also the RL.
And he never had to baby or handle me.
sick sentinel
when I was dps, I was barely speaking, now I am not shutting up
cinder nova
He just let me get away with whatever since we had great synergy
steel mauve
Tank needs to be able to lead a fight, so they need to be vocal, and need to call for externals
And stuff
cinder nova
Shame he quit. We had a weirdly preternatural sense of one another's CDs.
Tanks don't need to do raid calls.
They literally just have to call externals if required
sick sentinel
and I did not have a mic for like some weeks and people were joking about it, "oh god some peace and quiet"
cinder nova
And clutch calls
I'm 2 hrs into raid and I've said maybe 10 words.
Mostly because at this point my healers know when I want my externals
So they just use it reflexively
steel mauve
If a position needs to be changed, or an audible a tank needs to be the one to call it, if some ome else has to tell the tank to change it, then its probably too late for the tank to take action
I need to train our healers...
cinder nova
Not really.
It's called precalling.
I precleared a marked spot on zek two pulls ago
And everyone bugged out
No fuss
steel mauve
Cant pre call a dumb dps dropping some thing on or under boss and a tank not worrying about it, shit happens that isnt supposed to happen and the raid needs to be flexible, and means the tank needs to be flexible
cinder nova
That's not a tank call
Most shit like that is going to wipe
It's not usually recoverable.
steel mauve
Still a tank saying hey im moving boss, letting the raid know some thing is changing
cinder nova
Yeah, but that's not leading a fight.
steel mauve
Thats leading the boss
cinder nova
Also I don't... really think you need to call movement like that. Even during off-script movement I'm never needed to vocalize
Because watching the boss is a given
steel mauve
If a position change needs to happen then the tank should be able to tell the raid the boss is moving
cinder nova
Whole raid should be able to use their eyes
broken kite
Enough of any raiding
steel mauve
And it takes nothing to remind every one to watch for the bosses cleave
broken kite
"I can't move I'm casting hymn!"
steel mauve
Especially when the boss is mobile,ike zek during big aoe circles
cinder nova
Literally never needed to do that dramatic of an adjustment.
Also reminding people of a boss cleave is asinine
steel mauve
We know timers of zek, know when hes casting his cone combo, dps arent watching for that during dodging of circles
cinder nova
I feel like that's indicative of the player's aptitude.
Why not? I'm watching timers for everything.
steel mauve
Not when theres 2 or 3 other things the entire raid is trying to dodge so they dont get one shot
raven kernel
Calling obvious shit that causes a wipe just increases your odds
cinder nova
Yes when there are 2 or 3 other things.
raven kernel
No harm in doing it unless comms are cluttered by other calls
cinder nova
How do you think I determine if I want to use full DPS kit or just demo
cinder nova
I mean - if your raid needs calls and vocalizations to babysit them, then yeah - you need to do that.
But it's not a tank responsibility.
To assert the competence of other players.
raven kernel
Just calling things reduces avoidable wipes
Sure you can be super elitist and expect people to play super good
raven kernel
But then you might need 100 wipes to get the boss instead of 80
umbral relic
Hi guys, how big is ignore pain off gcd going to be?
steel mauve
Its not going to be big, the rotation is just going to feel better
raven kernel
Don't focus on my terminology but the point I'm making as a whole
cinder nova
I really don't think I'm missing the forest for the trees here.
steel mauve
Ya, defensively its not gonna really help, but now you can use a dps ability with up
IP*
raven kernel
Well sure do what you want
cinder nova
The last time I needed to handhold like that we didn't even get half the mythic bosses in NH
raven kernel
Not my loss
cinder nova
And that was 3 guilds ago.
Now I barely need to prompt anything and I can just call my tank for snap taunts or externals.
steel mauve
And weve always called every thing out including audible movements and got cutting edge, theres always different ways to do things
raven kernel
Even us 3rd ghuun calls obvious shit like floor exploding and look away for fear
junior ivy
ok, zek isnt THAT scary
i can take a combo without LS
and be fine
but eveyone is dying to circles..
raven kernel
All of that is on timers
cinder nova
That's not a tank call though
raven kernel
You'd think people would know
junior ivy
also i was told to bring zek to adds even if hes doing his combo
casue his combo isnt a big deal to get on raid
is that true
hot locust
no
raven kernel
What's the difference between raid leader calling void lash and tank calling it
hot locust
LMAO
cinder nova
You'll goon the entire raid lol
cinder nova
Because RLs and officers are the ones who should be speaking. Idle chatter drowns out critical calls or adjustments.
If you aren't an officer, or a position of authority in your guild/raid, then you shouldn't be making calls unless your group's leadership has given you range to.
Tanks should have clarity to call for tank relevant calls.
And that's it.
And telling people to do mechanics isn't a tank cal.
It's a raid call.
raven kernel
Well that's just down to how your raid delegates jobs
cinder nova
Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. It's not a tank-intrinsic call.
raven kernel
But your point earlier was void lash is on timer u don't have to call it all dps should know
cinder nova
But that's what was being asserted.
And it's not.
yes, they should.
They have all the same timers.
raven kernel
OK let's just drop this convo
cinder nova
And boss shouldn't be pointing at the raid.
if a DPS isn't out of the aoe, then they're out of position
sick sentinel
Windowlickers will be windowlickers cant do much about it
cinder nova
That has nothing to do with you.
raven kernel
Its pointless to continue
digital arrow
cat what happened to ur other tank
dusky mica
ported out to fix his mog, catfriend was making him look bad
junior ivy
hes been replaced by a new dk without mic
my previous tank now raids as dps on his warrior
i dunno why
i never asked
sick sentinel
I mean you can tell when a tank needs swaps
U should be watching each other like you would the boss
You are his dance partner and even without talking you should know how to follow their steps like they would yours
lucid kelp
I mean me personally...as a tank I just make sure the boss is positioned so that he doesn't cleave the raid...no callouts needed..
sick sentinel
The only time I actually call for a swap is on ghuun, so we can swap tank and boss
lucid kelp
tho I do call out if my other tank forgets to taunt cause he does that a lot
sick sentinel
Add and boss
cinder nova
If there's one thing I hate it's missed taunts
dusky mica
call for swaps?! what is this madness! use psychic powers
cinder nova
On slow, easy mechanics
sick sentinel
Yeah tunnel vision can happen and sometimes you gotta say AYO BITCH TAUNT
cinder nova
Don't even need to call on G'huun. It's "taunt at 6" and "taunt on debuff"
If you are using your eyeballs
You can take in this information
sick sentinel
Yea
junior ivy
ugh people keep dying to dumb stuff on zek
dusky mica
scrub detected
sick sentinel
Yes man
cinder nova
my head
junior ivy
if i was eye beamed to death, is it my fault?
sick sentinel
No
sick sentinel
If the tactic you are using is "eye beam moves out" then no
If you didnt get it, tell ur raid to watch where they move their stupid asss
cedar tide
hey guys does having block up reduce the dmg from the dot off zul "rupturing blood" dot
sick sentinel
If you are using the "eye beam stands still and everybody else moves out"'then yeah