that would make it actually punishing to not hit ISB
#protection
frosty wedge
it's NOT hard to keep ISB up 100% of the time you're tanking
you should be punished for failing to do that
uneven mason
its impossible to not have ISB Up 100% if you're actually pushing buttons
or using auto follow and a drinking bird
lusty grotto
lol
primal crypt
How do you not have isb up 100%....
uneven mason
I said pressing b uttons
earnest zinc
The base stagger would just require a drinking bird on the ISB key
primal crypt
Wat
sand egret
ISB needs to scale staggers duration in addition to what it does, with baseline stagger being less
frosty wedge
you all read the fetid article right??
frosty wedge
no he WAS though
uneven mason
sniffing bear farts
frosty wedge
he spammed purifying brew a shit ton
uneven mason
lol
primal crypt
Gives us 100% Sb uptime
frosty wedge
he was active the whole time
primal crypt
Plz
uneven mason
100% SB uptime would feel pretty nice
frosty wedge
he was just bad
uneven mason
make SB passive
frosty wedge
lol
primal crypt
Lol
primal crypt
Feelings
uneven mason
so what is it like 74% haste?
primal crypt
78 i thought
neon tangle
wanna make monk take more skill? cap the total amount you can stagger
uneven mason
or 100.1%
neon tangle
once it goes above that you take 100% of the damage
uneven mason
There is a cap
primal crypt
74% is achievable
primal crypt
Lul
uneven mason
EZPZ
primal crypt
Ezpz
uneven mason
wat?
ITF is 15% of your total haste
not just 15% haste
its multiplicative
yeah, it scales (WITH HASTE)
primal crypt
Yeah?
uneven mason
Yeah
primal crypt
Tell me mpre
frosty wedge
yep
uneven mason
not sure if it adds 15% to lust tho
I'll have to check if its 15% of your gear +100% baseline
or 15% of all sources
primal crypt
With all these naysayers
We need scenarios like this to be spelled out for people to read
uneven mason
That would require reading
solid mist
¯_(ツ)_/¯
digital arrow
huh
uneven mason
Yay, a change that addresses none of our issues
Look at me
I'm excited
this is my excited face
chrome falcon
reduced recharge time on SB too
real monolith
it's a QoL change if nothing else
uncut juniper
wait... doesnt it say from NONE to 0,5sec? im confused oO
real monolith
wowhead is currently hugged to death for me
digital arrow
lol they took a long time to figure out how to improve the spec
chrome falcon
@uncut juniper Yes, it having a .5 second GCD means that it's off the GCD
chrome falcon
If an ability on the GCD had a .5 second CD then you wouldn't even notice
chrome falcon
Nnnno
chrome falcon
Pretty sure that's not what it is
plain ice
did you see the deafening crash nerf? only works up to 6 extra seconds
chrome falcon
Haha ok
tall wadi
It could also mean that it works like reju used to work for resto druid, having a halved gcd by nature
digital arrow
u know it was much needed
chrome falcon
The increased haste we get from ilvl is going to make it so that reduced CD on shield block is unnecessary anyway
With BoD gear our block downtime was already going to be very low
chrome falcon
Which would suck
neon tangle
Veteran of the Third War Stamina increased by 60%10%.
frosty wedge
cd reduction + another charge would mean 100% uptime ?
uneven mason
Matt it means that with reduced CD on SB< that mastery, and vers becoem stronger sooner
neon tangle
wow whut
junior ivy
how hard will atal dazar be this week?
frosty wedge
atal is easy every week
uneven mason
like "more easy"
junior ivy
i never find it easy
primal crypt
It's always easy
frosty wedge
atal? it's the easiest instance, and fastest
real monolith
holy shit dk is being nerfed into the floor
uneven mason
Jump down to REzan, walk back up to Zomboy, jog across to goldybabe, kill spider girl
shut summit
IP getting CD cuz it off gcd/you don't overlap if spamming
supple path
Where are these notes at?
shut summit
Same as they did for spell reflect with pants legendary in legion or w.e
junior ivy
last boss is hard in AD
primal crypt
Easy*
uneven mason
If your DPS are flipperhands
chrome falcon
@shut summit People are saying this means it still has a GCD but it's reduced duration (like charge) but that's incorrect right?
frosty wedge
naw last boss is easy as long as your DPS know to run away, lol
uneven mason
It could be either way I think, we'll test it
junior ivy
i planj on doing it on a +13...
shut summit
Off GCD
chrome falcon
I'm literally 100% sure this means it's off GCD
junior ivy
fair root
where are you peoples seeing these changes, i just get a server error when trying to view the page on wowhead
uneven mason
Ooo so I Was right
chrome falcon
It's the exact same syntax as IP in Legion
solid mist
with DC change. would it potentially make DS something you hold for upcoming mechanics? or I guess not because BV the rage just matters too much right?
chrome falcon
The shield block CDR is also barely a buff
daring patrol
surely this isn't the end of the changes
chrome falcon
And our utility is still trash, just going to assume this isn't all the changes so I don't cut myself
digital arrow
whoa
neon tangle
is that buff to vanguard on top of what we already got?
solid mist
another bump to Vanguard just screams of "we don't know what to do, just keep moving these numbers up I guess"
weary notch
^
chrome falcon
https://gyazo.com/bc203a48059ccc7ec01b250eea1ad059 hahaha i don't even care if these changes are a nerf overall as long as this goes live i will be happy
get fucked BDK shitters
neon tangle
@chrome falcon DOn't forget they already nerfed the 15% armor from that
real monolith
that's probably a datamining error
digital arrow
is that an azerite trait or
real monolith
as much as it would be fun to see a tank lose 50% stam that wont happen
digital arrow
ohhh nevermind me
real monolith
bdk's biggest weakness is dying in a global already xd
neon tangle
well at least they aren't gonna keep DC around for the next whole tier
chrome falcon
@neon tangle yeah but they don't seem to be replacing it with anything
neon tangle
seems like the DC nerf will hit us harder than the rest of the buffs tho
earnest zinc
They did nerf DC to the ground though
neon tangle
But whatever, DC dying needs to happen, it only increases the skill ceiling which isn't what we need
solid mist
I'd love a write up / video from their design team of like "here is how we envision you playing your prot war" and like... explain how they think the class should be played
frosty wedge
yeah DC got a horrible nerf
chrome falcon
DC does not increase the skill ceiling
You already want to alternate TC with your other globals during Avatar
DC just makes that even stronger
sick sentinel
395 titanforged 10 legs crit/versatility from chest.
neon tangle
@chrome falcon Look at how many warriors fully utilize it in when we analyze logs here
chrome falcon
"Cast this spell while this buff is up" Is an incredibly fucking basic thing to do
chrome falcon
that's not skill ceiling, that's just interesting gameplay
neon tangle
It's not conceptually hard to use, it's just another thing that good warriors an do that bad ones don't
and further increases the gap between good and bad
i.e. move the skill ceiling and floor further apart
chrome falcon
I think prot warrior is the only tank in BFA that actually plays how tanks should play
sand egret
did that wowhead page go down?
chrome falcon
Die if you fuck up and drop mitigation
sand egret
cuz I can't get to the notes
solid mist
I want them to tune things and remove BV so DS becomes something you decide to use instead of just "I have a rotation so I have to hit this button now" thing
chrome falcon
Playing properly gives you more mitigation
sand egret
err diffs
final mist
BDK isn't a meme tank, Veteran wasn't actually nerfed.
It got a spec0specific mod to buff it back to the same value.
chrome falcon
@solid mist But I want our rotation to have more than 3 buttons 😦 This is why I don't hate the GCD changes so much it actually gives us more than 3 buttons to press
sand egret
yeah looks like an aura reorg
earnest zinc
The DC nerf is going to screw us over
frosty wedge
DK actually got an AOE buff
sand egret
bonestorm getting a target cap is nice
gaunt dawn
Its +10% stam for frost + unholy
still +60% for blood
uneven mason
TBH they could be the self healing tank
frosty wedge
yeah, bu now standing in D&D makes shit hit 3 additional targets
solid mist
@chrome falcon yeah it'd need to be part of a class redesign. But being a tank you should be making decisions not just doing a rotation
uneven mason
Well
DC wasn't making prot "viable"
it was a nice bonus
but raised our skill floor
chrome falcon
Making decisions as a tank in BFA haha nice meme
solid mist
😏
final mist
I'm okay with DC getting a nerf. It was far, far, far too strong in it's live incarnation.
chrome falcon
Again, DC getting a nerf needs to be accompanied by an actual buff
frosty wedge
^
final mist
Look at that, 3 actual buffs.
chrome falcon
Not a QoL change and whatever this SB thing is
final mist
SB got 2 seconds removed from the recharge time.
chrome falcon
Yeah that's
final mist
Good.
frosty wedge
that's pretty solid
chrome falcon
Not as good as DC
chrome falcon
Yeah it's fine, but the haste we naturally get from another ~30 ilvls is going to increase our SB/LS uptime anyway
daring patrol
i mean, ill take 100% effective uptime on shield block in raids over uptime on demo shout any day
final mist
Just the GCD change.
chrome falcon
If you play properly you already have pretty much 100% effective block uptime
limber tulip
Looool
chrome falcon
So this SB change really isn't going to do a ton
final mist
???
limber tulip
How you like those bdk buffs fuckers
frosty wedge
he's counting bolster and tank changes
shut summit
Go try blocking shoot on ptr too 👀
final mist
Oh yeah, forgot about those Sense
chrome falcon
It's much nicer for m+ than it is for raids I'll say that for sure
mint marsh
its just bone storm nerf
daring patrol
don't tease me sense
earnest zinc
Wait, does it work now?
shut summit
I'm not teasing
final mist
What else was blockable now?
frosty wedge
wait sense
final mist
🤔
proper pecan
Hey
frosty wedge
arrows and rocks
neon tangle
@final mist Do you know how much of an increase in uptime that will be? 2s of 18s is like 11%?
frosty wedge
can be blocked now?
proper pecan
Is IP off gcd on ptr?
final mist
It's a hefty buff to SB uptime.
limber tulip
@earnest zinc don’t worry you’re still on the bottom
chrome falcon
the vanguard change on PTR is tooltip only, right?
chrome falcon
oh i didn't realise live tooltip was already updated
mortal pike
What is the IP change?
chrome falcon
off the GCD
mortal pike
languid smelt
I am trying to catchup from a crazy week. Did the blues ever respond to the reddit threads or is that being addressed at a later date?
pallid grotto
How much of a change will it make tho(outside of feeling waay better)? It's still gone in 1 - 1.5 seconds of damage
chrome falcon
@pallid grotto very little actual change to our survivability, slight damage/rage gen buff
chrome falcon
probably just some backend thing to make changing classes easier for blizzard
daring patrol
im not sure why you think block uptime and being able to block ranged attacks is "very little"
solid mist
my guess would be something that determines what loot you see or what stats are "active"/"highlighted" on loot
manic sentinel
oh ok
sand egret
so Blizzard uses an aura system to modify classes without affecting the underlying spells
this was a big systemic change a few expacs ago
chrome falcon
"Non-boss enemies are empowered by Bwonsamdi and periodically seek vengeance from beyond the grave."
New seasonal affix
sand egret
that could be fun, CC the berserk dead guys.
vocal nimbus
@final mist does it block "shot" cast thingies or ranged aas too?
tall wadi
I imagine it works randomly like infested so it doesn't get stale
astral crystal
Veteran of the Third War Stamina increased by 60%. Death Knight - Blood Spec. Death Knight - Blood Spec. 1 sec global cooldown. 10%.
u got m8
wot**
glacial mortar
neon tangle
is the armor still removed from it?
sand egret
HOLD UP
ember arrow
boneshield gets buffed
real yarrow
prot changes are up already?
sand egret
can we block rocks now on the PTR?
chrome falcon
Bonestorm is getting a 5 target cap from the healing
Which I don't think matters
at all
astral crystal
IP back on a .5 CD
chrome falcon
Probably a bit of a nerf
astral crystal
and SB has a better CD
earnest zinc
Why did they strip their passive armor and add most of it back with bone shield?
chrome falcon
I will never understand why people make such a big deal out of being able to block rocks and arrows
earnest zinc
It doesn't make sense
neon tangle
@earnest zinc punishment for messing up your AM?
ember arrow
@earnest zinc stronger in raids
gleaming viper
Why shouldn't u be able to block projecticles with a shield
chrome falcon
@gleaming viper You absolutely should
ember arrow
armor nerf was only being relevant in raids
chrome falcon
It's just not a massive change
ember arrow
so they went back a big on it with boneshield
supple path
There are several pulls in tol'dagor/motherlode where it's deeply irritating.
tall wadi
@chrome falcon for dungeons it just feels horrible
digital arrow
i hated having to LOS rock throwers on top of casters
supple path
And you just know that every so often they toss in some gunboss that warriors just suck rocks at.
sand egret
for me it just makes no sense
languid sigil
astral crystal
Deafening Crash Thunder Clap deals an additional 30 damage and extends the duration of your Demoralizing Shout on affected enemies by 2 sec.up to 6 sec.
r i p
digital arrow
whatcha mean blade
astral crystal
deafening crash got rekt
sand egret
thank god
supple path
Which is 100% a good call - nerf that shit in same patch they're buffing us.
languid sigil
That was a too strong triat
gleaming viper
Dc Nerf outweighs all the buffa
supple path
That conversation earlier where someone was told to give up 45 ilvls for it shouldn't be a thing.
chrome falcon
The DC nerf is far more impactful than all of the buffs
sand egret
yeah DC needed to get clipped
astral crystal
lmao people celebrating the dc nerf, gotta love the contrarian party every time blizzard makes a dumbass change
chrome falcon
If these changes go live with no other buffs
lusty grotto
PTR isn't done
chrome falcon
We will be worse than we currently are
So we have to just pray that this isn't everything
jovial forge
is it true that shield block now only has 1 charge ?
chrome falcon
No
solid mist
lol
chrome falcon
Lol
sand egret
well the real dumbasses are the ones who think "this is it" and literally not just the changelist for tday
solid mist
that's some fantastic meme shit
supple path
It actually has 0 charges now and hitting the hotkey makes you take 20% of your hp
fervent geode
I think i read somwhere that there's a dedicated blog for prot warriors thats good to read?? is there a link somewhere or somthing I can read about my favourite class/spec during commutes?
astral crystal
nobody's said this is it, this is a reaction to what's posted on mmochamp
sand egret
yeah, which is a good step
jovial forge
k thanks for the info
sand egret
clipping DC is needed
earnest zinc
They need to give us a passive damage reduction to compensate though
sand egret
prob not for a while
solid mist
blizz has done a lot of stuff for the "long term health" of the game. Nuking DC is one of those things unfortunately. you can't have something that is wroth 45+ fucking ilvls
that's bad for lots of reasons
sand egret
but it'll come
digital arrow
good maybe DC will be worth less item levels now
gleaming viper
Does spriest look good now? Kinda wanted to boost an alliance toon
sand egret
it will be pocky
chrome falcon
DC isn't overpowered honestly, it's just far better than all the other azerite traits. I would like to see it on a talent or something
sand egret
by a lot
earnest zinc
A 5% reduction to all damage taken should do it
digital arrow
good 😁
sand egret
6 second max duration vs almost 100% uptime
chrome falcon
@earnest zinc Yes, that sounds great, remove part of our gameplay and replace it with a passive damage reduction aura
That sounds
AWESOME
gleaming viper
I'm already working on gearing up a BM monk to replace my warriir
digital arrow
good luck to you happytank
solid mist
yeah. +6 seconds is "hey this is a nice bonus" vs. ~100% potential uptime is "this is how you have to play this tank now, there are no other options"
astral crystal
you definitely have downs if you think the DC nerf is justified in any way shape or form
scenic mica
Almost 100% uptime? only in avatar i'd say, its a 3-4s cooldown for thunderclap
sand egret
lol
lusty grotto
what
scenic mica
maybe 70% or something
sand egret
what
lusty grotto
bolster
solid mist
someone post the 97% uptime screenshot
lusty grotto
why are you saying avatar ?
scenic mica
avatar gives 50% cd reduction
sand egret
(Psst, talkin about DC uptime)
earnest zinc
There needs to be a buff to compensate
lusty grotto
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
sand egret
(not SB @lusty grotto )
steel mauve
Ive hit over 75% uptime on demo shout on an almost 6 min fight
ember arrow
ip off gcd now?
lusty grotto
oh
astral crystal
it's on a .5 gcd again
scenic mica
it might be off GCD
sand egret
yeah most likely Levko
gleaming viper
Most of the better players I see sitting around 65% DC uptime on raid bosses
scenic mica
why give it a CD if its on the GCD
sand egret
the .5 is to prevent the double tanp
ember arrow
back to having fun
sand egret
tap*
astral crystal
like it was in legion
ember arrow
50% is better
sand egret
because that's how you make spells, @scenic mica
astral crystal
50% is fine
ember arrow
90% would make it deplete faster
scenic mica
legion prot was so fun with IP being a fat rage dump
ember arrow
and u cant spam it like in legion
lusty grotto
right, just saying it's not quite what legion IP was
earnest zinc
The DC nerf will make us trash tier if we aren't compensated
chrome falcon
^
scenic mica
what do you mean @sand egret
astral crystal
god damn every time an ew ptr patch comes up it's always disappointment, fucking blizzard
sick sentinel
I was expecting prot buffs
sand egret
every spell has a built in cooldown
sick sentinel
where are the prot buffs
scenic mica
yeah
solid mist
we got a 5% buff didn't you read it? /ducks
lusty grotto
lol calm down, PTR is not done
scenic mica
however the GCD =/= that cooldown
astral crystal
"alpha isn't done, surely prot will be fine" "beta isnt done, surely prot will be fine" "8.1 is coming, surely prot will be fine" "PTR isn't done surely prot will be fine" K A P P A
sand egret
we get you like to meme and all
lusty grotto
good lord lol
sand egret
but at some point you gotta get to reality
sand egret
and good
astral crystal
nope, not good
sick sentinel
@astral crystal LUL
sand egret
no one is debating that
scenic mica
CD was a fantastic trait
sand egret
well maybe you two
astral crystal
you don't look any smarter saying dc should've gotten nerfed tbh
lusty grotto
remember there's still azerite traits that could be givne to us
digital arrow
lol blade
sand egret
but if you don't see how having DC as an uncapped uptime buff as being horrible for our long-term....then I don't see how you can make a call on balance over all
cinder nova
"we need to buff warrior defensive capability"
scenic mica
Nerfing CD just makes prot far weaker
chrome falcon
Why
chrome falcon
why shouldn't DC be powerful
scenic mica
so unless something compensates then we might be worse off
astral crystal
you sound like ion
chrome falcon
It gives us something actually interesting to play around
cinder nova
nerfs warrior defensive capability
earnest zinc
DC was the only thing keeping us afloat
chrome falcon
Why do you want us to be the most dumbfuck easy spec in the game
Do you want us to become like BrM
chrome falcon
Where we have literally nothing to manage
royal marten
disconnect
lusty grotto
because they said a while ago that they would rework traits, that much was a given
astral crystal
deafening crash
scenic mica
DC was so great with booming voice
chrome falcon
And rewards me with damage and damage reduction when I play well
earnest zinc
Give us a passive 10% damage reduction and we will be good with the nerf
chrome falcon
Why the fuck are you asking for passive damage reduction auras
In return for making our class even more basic
sand egret
I see Marok typing so I'm gonna wait haha
chrome falcon
Why do you not want to have cool and engaging gameplay moments
royal marten
chrome falcon
That reward you for playing well
cinder nova
Zzzzz blizzard turning prot into the survival hunter of tanks
chrome falcon
I don't understand this mentality at all
royal marten
That's not the BFA way Mat
glad cradle
sv hunter of tanks?
daring patrol
because having a trait like that be so overpowered is shitty design
chrome falcon
"oh thank god they remove shield block and gave us 100% passive block chance, aiming for 100% block uptime was just unhealthy for the game"
chrome falcon
That's MY point
sand egret
you're still going to be dropping those
chrome falcon
People are saying it increases our skill floor
And it should get removed because of that
And it's blowing my fucking mind
tulip steeple
Is blizzard trolling us?
cinder nova
@glad cradle blizz made sure objectively the worst dps in legion
chrome falcon
It certainly fucking feels like it @tulip steeple
scenic mica
Even if CD was far above the rest, prot was so weak as a whole it needed something as strong as CD
glad cradle
ahh legion SV ok haha
solid mist
I mean... it can't exist on azerite that is going away. if it's a great trait then it needs to be moved to talent or baseline
sand egret
it shouldn't be removed, it should be capped so it doesnt scale....like it does....to trump 40 ilvls of gear
that's the issue
chrome falcon
Make the DC effect baseline
scenic mica
why?
sand egret
it's scaling
royal marten
It's like CD reduction trinkets
sand egret
it's just not healthy
scenic mica
Having a trait that does cool stuff feels way better than higher ilvl
fiery grove
what if they are capping the bonus but allowing the traits to stack again?
fierce juniper
Prot Buffs!
- Ignore Pain is off the GCD and now has a 0.5 second cooldown (exactly how it was in Legion).
- Shield Block recharge time changed from 18 seconds to 16 seconds.
- Vanguard now increases armor by 55% of Strength (was 50%), and Stamina by 45% (was 40%).
Adjustment/Nerfs
- Deafening Crash now can only increase the duration of Demo Shout by a maximum of 6 seconds.
Overall, these buffs are a huge step in the right direction. IP off the GCD in particular will make the spec feel considerably better, and the buffs to Shield Block and Vanguard will make the spec less punishing.
Additionally, the DC nerf will bring the trait more in line with the others.
chrome falcon
@sand egret You realise we are literally going to get a way to TARGET AZERITE GEAR in 8.1 right? Why is one trait being better than the rest a problem
lusty grotto
there you go
sand egret
It's not one trait being better
lusty grotto
because there could be new traits coming
sand egret
its one trait being so fuckign superior it trumps all
royal marten
The cap on healing for Blood DKs is gonna hurt
lusty grotto
and DC isn't nerfed to being absolutely trash either
astral crystal
i mean it's still the best trait
sand egret
and then dealing with that for the rest of the expac
gleaming viper
The target gear is going to be an absolute grind and make no difference tbh
scenic mica
why does it matter at all if CD is better though
sand egret
oi
solid mist
@chrome falcon b/c no gaurantee that trait will exist in future pieces of gear. they might do like tier shit. "oh ok new raid is out" and 385+ gear might not have that trait avail
astral crystal
you iwll still want DC, the fact that it's 6 secs max doesn't change that
scenic mica
are you actually concerned about balancing it, when prot is MILES behind brew and DK
astral crystal
now it's just shit
digital arrow
why do u want dc to be such an outlier atticus
astral crystal
the best shit*
lusty grotto
it's not shit at all
sand egret
yep, total trash tier
chrome falcon
@solid mist it will still exist on dungeon gear which is confirmed to keep up in ilvl with the raids
astral crystal
the gilded poop
sand egret
better get that TW gear without traits
astral crystal
blade there's literally no reason why it should've been nerfed, seriously
digital arrow
dc still seems good dammit punches desk
astral crystal
use your brain for a second
sand egret
i've given you a dozen
astral crystal
even with the nerf it's still the best trait
sand egret
actually
chrome falcon
I dunno, I think these changes blow. Lowers our skill floor but doesn't make us better in actual difficult content. Lets hope there's more to come.
solid mist
@chrome falcon I'm a bit cloudy on how that's going to work for "season 2" will old gear get additional rings? b/c if not it'd still be inferior no?
astral crystal
do you understand that
sand egret
the issue is that you can't see past these change notes
astral crystal
oh lord
chrome falcon
@solid mist The extra rings show up depending on ilvl
lusty grotto
there is: they said they were gonna bring MUST HAVEs down, or at least implied it heavily @astral crystal
supple path
I'm curious what the -2s cd on shield block will translate to for uptime %s
astral crystal
do you believe any other trait is better than dc after the nerf, nimchip?
solid mist
@chrome falcon ahhh ok nm then
chrome falcon
1 DC will still probably be mandatory, maybe not worth 45 ilvls anymore, but probably still worth 15
lusty grotto
right
astral crystal
other traits wont be
supple path
For a given value of the word mandatory anyway.
chrome falcon
Because it's fun gameplay
sand egret
IT
chrome falcon
And fun gameplay should be preserved
sand egret
DOESNT
astral crystal
i just want you to understand why your line of reasoning is stunted
sand egret
CHHANGE
solid mist
better? probably not. BUT if someone gets some good drop... them literally not being able to equip it b/c DC is just so fucking good sucks the big one
astral crystal
it's still a mandatory trait
lusty grotto
they don't want you to stick with 340 ilvl shoulders
thorny dagger
PROT WARRIOR SUCKS YOU SHOULD STOP CARING ABOUT IT
lusty grotto
period
sand egret
^
astral crystal
should just accept that as long as a dev isn't playing the class it won't be on the level as other classes devs do play religiously
chrome falcon
But you don't have to hold on to 340 ilvl shoulders in 8.1
sand egret
shit in the game that makes you drop 40 ilvls for it is simply not good.
chrome falcon
BECAUSE THERE'S A FUCKING VENDOR
lusty grotto
that's true
neon tangle
wait why would a 6s DC be "mandatory", 6s of 20% DR vs. more consistent stuff like increased block, etc seems
not crazy
supple path
Yeah it won't be mandatory, it'll have a value like any other trait.
sand egret
oh gosh
astral crystal
same reason you dont take iron fortress over dc now?
solid mist
@chrome falcon yeah but like... realistically for the majority of players they aren't going to be able to get gauranteed DC pieces on the regular. What'd they say? 2-3 weeks for targetted pieces?
vagrant cape
holy shit that bonestorm nerf, though. take that, BDKs. Bonestorm can only restore 15% of their max hp total
sand egret
per second 😃
deft hinge
i believe they said over a month for targeted pieces?
fiery grove
what if they changed it so the DC traits stack once again?
solid mist
I thought they said in the post like "hsould take 2-3 weeks to do blah" ?
chrome falcon
@solid mist Maybe the majority of players should start playing the fucking game to get their rewards then. I don't want to sound like some douchebag on reddit saying that you should grind 60 hours to get your first epic but if it takes you like 2 months to get enough to buy one piece, that's your fault
ember arrow
@vagrant cape per second
vagrant cape
oh, true
ember arrow
if at 5+ enemies
daring patrol
@solid mist 2-3 weeks for +10 level gear, so 370 right now. whatever it will be in 8.1
vagrant cape
but still makes them not invincible in huge bonestorm pulls
sand egret
yeah, them scaling nerfs
astral crystal
dont you mean we, levko :^)
supple path
Seems like a targeted nerf at multi-pack pulling, yeah.
ember arrow
no
deft hinge
astral crystal
us DKs, levko :^)))))))))))
languid sigil
A question about the IP cooldown that will come with 8.1: In what way will that effect us?
ember arrow
nope
languid sigil
The 0.5 secs cd
ember arrow
i dont play wow
scenic mica
its probably off the gcd @languid sigil
lusty grotto
@languid sigil read pins
scenic mica
thats massive
digital arrow
lmao "take that BDK's! that'll learn ya to be OP"
solid mist
oof, so a specific targetted piece is "long-term goal for top players"
ember arrow
i wait for the fun part of bfa
neon tangle
@astral crystal Slightly better =/= mandatory, even if it's better than the other traits it would be nice to have it not gimp you
solid mist
so you get to roll the dice very 2-3 weeks?
deft hinge
2-3 weeks for a random piece
supple path
You no longer will have to weave IP into your rotation, or be forced to take an unmitigated hit because e.g. shield slam is ready
vagrant cape
Bear druids on suicide watch, though
supple path
IP will become an on demand ability instead of part of your rotation.
astral crystal
i dont know if i'd call dc slightly better than IF or RP or whatever else
even after nerf
but ok
chrome falcon
@solid mist What? No? You get to roll the dice frequently, or save up and get a specific piece every 2 weeks.
lusty grotto
i wonder if frenzied regen is off the gcd
solid mist
check the screenshot that was posted
althought who knows if blizzard is telling the truth
deft hinge
and if you roll for a random piece, you set yourself back on the targeted
solid mist
I mean... they want this fucking roulette machine of traits... so then they have to nerf DC to make it work I guess :/
chrome falcon
Oh sorry I misinterpreted your quote instead of reading the actual post
stark sage
@lusty grotto iirc frenzied is off and ironfur is on
vagrant cape
they said random pieces are gonna be every few weeks while the specific 385s are "long term goals"
stark sage
i know that ironfur is always been on
supple path
Man, it does sting to hear this nerf literally 3 hours after I got my 385 DC piece though.
Happiness levels...reduced.
scenic mica
the nerf isnt live
lusty grotto
you sure? im pretty sure ironfur wasnt
vagrant cape
you've got a few weeks mate
lusty grotto
hotp off the gcd as well?
narrow abyss
More than that I imagine
ember arrow
@supple path 8.1 isnt out m udde
earnest zinc
DC still appears to be the strongest but not by a mile anymore
lusty grotto
i see they got talented hotp now
supple path
Yeah, just reduces it from the white whale get stage it had been.
lusty grotto
wasn't it self only
earnest zinc
Prot needs a big buff to offset that nerf though
lusty grotto
tooltip text sounds like it could be talented now?
scenic mica
hopefully more buffs are coming
vagrant cape
lotp is baseline, hotp is the talented form
lusty grotto
like in legion
ashen trellis
Damn, It took the balancing team since beta to reduce the gcd to .5 on IP. All this waiting for large changes coming in 8.1, and were getting tiny changes. fucking yikes. Hopfully this isnt everything. If this is everything were getting I guess it's better then what we have now?
chrome falcon
it already works like that nimchip
sand egret
Ironfur is off the GCD
zinc mauve
i dont think the DC nerf is as huge as you people think. it still nearly doubles the duration for a combo you are probably going to doing anyway
sand egret
FR is on it
chrome falcon
@ashen trellis if this is everything we are getting we will be weaker than we currently are
sand egret
fyi
neon tangle
@earnest zinc I wouldn't be surprised if the buffs to vanguard + SB will get us ~10% or more DR
chrome falcon
@zinc mauve you are incorrect, we were looking at 100% uptime on demo shout in 8.1 without this change
astral crystal
i mean
neon tangle
@lusty grotto sense said we can block projectiles now
astral crystal
with IP more spammable projectiles arent that huge
chrome falcon
it's a big nerf
supple path
The SB buff is the really big one, since it's going to really cut into our exposed "no block + tanking" time.
lusty grotto
right @neon tangle
chrome falcon
the SB buff is not that big either but it's something
lusty grotto
its huge if you can block projectiles
chrome falcon
we definitely need more so lets just hope it's coming
astral crystal
keeps up boneshield, isb, ironfur with 100% uptime nothin personnel kid...
vagrant cape
With IP being off the GCD we're gonna be fucking nuts. More opportunities to dump rage will mean more CD reduction via AM which means more demo shouts and more avatars which mean more rage generation which mean moer IPs which will mean even more CDR
earnest zinc
I don't know about 100% for demo
zinc mauve
if a fight is 2 minutes long, you can probably get off 4 casts of demo shout, 14 seconds per cast = 56 seconds, although i dont know how you're managing 100% uptime
chrome falcon
holy shit can we please stop pretending the projectile blocking thing is actually a big deal
zinc mauve
closest i can get is 70%
chrome falcon
it is 4 fucking mobs in the entire expansion
sand egret
well if we can #BlockTheRock then honestly these notes alone are a win in my book 😃
chrome falcon
it does not goddamn matter for our overall viability
digital arrow
hey man i dont like rocks thrown at my head ok
zinc mauve
spells are the bigger issue
astral crystal
it's funny that people consider high demo uptime unreasonable when monks, DKs and druids exist, really tickles the old dingle
lusty grotto
4 mobs.... ok
digital arrow
LOL
supple path
the list of bow, gun, and rock mobs is probably more like what
40+ in the various dungeons?
supple path
not different types
lusty grotto
Mattacate is freaking out
supple path
but total npcs
digital arrow
"fuck these goddamn rocks" SHIELDWALL
zinc mauve
tol dagor has: 3 or 4 rock throwing npcs, at least 5 or 6 'SHOOT' mobs as well
astral crystal
LoS pesky pelters
chrome falcon
Wrench guys in motherlode, rock guys in Tol Dagor, arrow miniboss in KR, gun boss in Siege (not a big deal)
I would also contend that the wrench guys in motherlode are not a big deal
They cast it once on the pull and then do nothing but low damage melee swings
zinc mauve
i agree, wrench is minor
ember arrow
@astral crystal neither of their AM graint them 20% dmg
chrome falcon
They're the easiest of the list
limber wigeon
the big issue is there are some dungeon areas where LoS isn't actually a thing
cinder nova
Can you imagine if IP was still on the GCD with just a .5s CD?
I'm gonna laugh.
Probably will be
limber wigeon
like the little juts on the bridge of KR don't block LoS
sand egret
still would be better than now
cinder nova
Wouldn't even shock me
supple path
Wonder how it plays on stuff like Overseer Korgus abilities too
cinder nova
Not really.
zinc mauve
wait what about Shadow of Zul in KR? Are his spells considered spells or ranged?
cinder nova
It wouldn't be different
zinc mauve
cause you cant SR it
lusty grotto
apparently taking damage in high level fortified keys is non-factor
limber wigeon
I'm actually really sad that they're taking IP off the gcd
chrome falcon
The scariest of the projectile mobs are the rock guys in Tol Dagor and the miniboss in KR
quiet kettle
aka technically off the gcd
chrome falcon
The rock guys in Tol are easily LoSable and the miniboss in KR isn't a huge issue because there's no other damage so your healer can spam you
sand egret
(that's just a "cd" then, technically)
supple path
A 0.5s ICD on an ability isn't really the same as the GCD
chrome falcon
I dunno I just don't think it's a big deal, it's certainly nice though
limber wigeon
are you talking about the 2nd to last trash pull in KR?
chrome falcon
I'm just seeing people act like prot warrior is saved because of it
quiet kettle
there is other dmg on shadow of zul matta
supple path
It's more of a long term concern too, because there's going to be more content like that.
limber wigeon
because that's the one that frequently gives me the largest problem in terms of grouping/positioning
quiet kettle
both the gtfo mechanic, and the stand in puddle
supple path
And it's nice to not be blanket inferior on a type of damage.
sand egret
Matta I dont think you get why people don't like it
chrome falcon
@quiet kettle I'm not talking about Zul, I'm talking about the miniboss that shoots arrows
Of course we can't block Zul's damage lol, it's spells
vagrant cape
there are also bosses that use ranged physical attacks. like the 2nd boss of siege and the final boss of tol dagor
ember arrow
every tank los her
quiet kettle
oh that one
remote tusk
When will they make T21-4P a passive?
sand egret
nor do we consider it exclusive
chrome falcon
@vagrant cape Both of which are very low tank damage
sand egret
legion prot lol
candid path
Prot was by far the least-represented tank in Antorus
sand egret
yeah my wrists are good with that shit
vagrant cape
@chrome falcon nothing does low tank damage in a high enough key on tyrannical
supple path
I want to be able to solo m15 bosses when my group dies again, thanks.
chrome falcon
Prot was fine in legion because of our legendaries and our artifact
candid path
And it was still about 50% more popular than BFA Prot.
chrome falcon
Prot's low representation in Antorus didn't make sense to me
merry flax
legion prot is probably the best it has ever been in the game
sick sentinel
^
chrome falcon
We were incredibly strong defensively if we built for it
scenic mica
Legion prot was incredibly fun
daring patrol
cata prot says hi
merry flax
it was stupid we needed to play 2p/4p but it was amazing
supple path
Losing warbringer was really the biggest get wrecked though, 2 charge off the GCD non-standard stun dimi AE stuns was soooo nice.
cinder nova
@merry flax we didn't tough
zinc mauve
the problem is we cannot tell for sure how well these changes pan out until we really get in there and dive into the numbers
candid path
Prot's low representation in Antorus was due to the same problems they have now: Can't handle anything unblockable very well. Burst damage outright kills them while Monks/DK's are laughing.
primal crypt
Warbringer was bis
scenic mica
More buffs and nerfs may be on the way too
tulip pond
Did a +10 on my 355 ilvl prot alt. Was kinda lets say interesting compared to my monk main lol
merry flax
if you wanted to beat dps on the meters you played 4p/2p lol
chrome falcon
@cinder nova uh... no?
cinder nova
It wasn't a DPS boost at all
merry flax
lol ok dude
zinc mauve
for example, being able to blocked ranged sounds fantastic in certain dungeons like the stupid hunter's in Kings Rest
although still doesnt make the dungeon any less cancer
chrome falcon
it wasn't a dps boost because you lost the gloves and were lower ilvl
but it made you a fucking GOD
defensively
daring patrol
all spamming aside, people are just exited because it's actual news and updates instead of "¯_(ツ)_/¯ we see you kiddo finger guns"
cinder nova
You used gloves with at 2p
chrome falcon
#1 healing ezpz
cinder nova
Like why the fuck would you not
candid path
Being able to block auto shots in King's Rest is the difference between taking virtually no damage and getting shredded like tissue paper.
ember arrow
youre not supposed to tank her
scenic mica
what kills you in KR is the berserker debuff
candid path
Let the Mage do it.
ember arrow
no tank can tank "shoot"
chrome falcon
Or just get your healer to spam you since there's no other damage happening
candid path
Yeah, the other 5 tanks who don't have to kite are clearly doing it wrong.
candid path
😉
chrome falcon
If you can show me anyone tanking a +17 fortified arrow miniboss
ember arrow
^
chrome falcon
I will delete my wow account
stone crag
there were specific situation to use the tier combo in ABT, but for general use yes swole is right
lusty grotto
mattacate
lusty grotto
its just not one thing
chrome falcon
Well what did you think we were talking about lol
candid path
Don't let me stop you.
supple path
probably not a +17?
chrome harbor
whtas the point of the .5 CD on IP if it already has a GCD
stone crag
it's off GCD
chrome harbor
😮
candid path
Yeah, clearly not talking about the point where every tank gets shredded by it. Prot Warrior walks in well behind the 8-ball.
scenic mica
legit?
chrome harbor
i mean it still absorbs an ornery cicada and thats about it
supple path
The .5s CD is the standard to avoid "instantly cast ability twice"
scenic mica
is that fact?
stone crag
check spell data
candid path
Nope.
chrome falcon
Probably not
cinder nova
You really didn't use 4p from tomb for very long, ilvl especially in Mythic was way too good. Unless you had absolutely absurd TF on every piece you don't do more.
scenic mica
nice
chrome harbor
interesting
candid path
IP still has its 130% cap, so being off-GCD and semi-spammable is still a good QoL change, but not like... world-sunderingly impactful, either.
merry flax
you didnt need absurd TF
chrome falcon
You literally didn't need a healer if you ran 2p/4p
sick sentinel
Ignore pain is garbage number wise anyway
supple path
It'll strictly increase our rage generation.
chrome harbor
appreciate the monthly 5% buffs to hp and armor though, its like poking and proding method of class design
scenic mica
it feels awful
sick sentinel
so what if its off the gcd
chrome falcon
The self healing was absolutely absurd in antorus if you built for it properly
neon tangle
@candid path It will be pretty nice for avatar cycles, especially in m+
merry flax
yep
neon tangle
which are the places that I most often rage cap
chrome falcon
Not to mention the basically nonexistant shield wall cooldown
candid path
It's still 40 Rage for a ~15% shield, so it's getting annihilated in half-a-second when actively tanking in raids, and probably just overstacking most of the rest of the time.
ember arrow
15% is a lot
chrome falcon
IP off GCD is a damage buff more than anything lol
candid path
Bingo.
scenic mica
?
candid path
That's it right there.
supple path
It being off the GCD lets us do stuff like pool rage more because we're not concerned about capping.
So can hover around 80 or whatever and rapid fire do 2 of them
solid mist
you don't have to decide between that free revenge proc and IP anymore
neon tangle
@ember arrow well to be fair bonestorm is getting nerfed to "only" 15%
solid mist
you can do both
ember arrow
15% shield is alot, and it being 50% DR, it applies to twice its absorb
ionic relic
So its time to lvl my next tank. Is it warrior or dk boys
solid mist
AND that contributes to AM
neon tangle
and it happens every second, for 10 seconds
stone crag
free revenge doesn't contribute to AM though
ember arrow
yea
chrome falcon
free revenge really should contribute to AM
candid path
It also lets you not sit at 100 Rage for long stretches when you need to dump some out, can't stop getting Revenge procs, and aren't really being pressured.
supple path
It also makes openers a lot smoother during avatar, where you really HAD to choose between a frequently free revenge + IP just due to GCD lock.
solid mist
right, but casint revennge AND IP does
chrome falcon
it feels so fucking bad pressing revenge
chrome harbor
it'll feel better to play at least
solid mist
instead of passing on the revenge to hit IP
now you get the damage, the ip, and the AM
chrome falcon
Yeah it'll be really nice in big pulls on m+ during Avatar
solid mist
in that scenario
chrome falcon
Not being capped at 100 rage
solid mist
^
candid path
Can't wait.
chrome falcon
If you wanted to push maximum dps during Avatar you wasted a LOT of rage
You never spent it on anything
chrome harbor
is that 8.1 changes or hotfix?
chrome falcon
Free revenge->TC->Free revenge
scenic mica
8.1
stone crag
ptr
sand egret
this is all still going in for 8.1
stone crag
solid mist
lol yeah. in M+ you basically have free revenge at all times
chrome falcon
Lots of wasted rage, lots of wasted CDR on your next avatar
solid mist
it seems
neon tangle
Honestly that could maybe put us in a good spot for doing bigger m+ pulls and stuff
chrome falcon
Yeah IDK what the point of revenge is
candid path
DAMAGE
chrome falcon
It's a damage based rage dump
candid path
DUUUUUUUH
chrome falcon
That does shit damage
supple path
The increased damage/rage gen it gives is a solid numbers buff on the top of the huge QoL adjustment
neon tangle
being a lil' mini thunder god during avatar, and being able to utilize that damage reduction
supple path
The point of revenge is quite simple
sick sentinel
What's the point of the IP change Oo
chrome falcon
@neon tangle Nah, losing the DR from DC means we probably can't pull much bigger than we can now
stone crag
QoL
supple path
sometimes you need to bleed 4 rogues simultaneously as they're stealthing
stone crag
easier rage management
candid path
I need to bleed hundreds of Rogues that are all stacked in front of me.
chrome falcon
Part of what made avatar so strong in m+ was that it also basically gave you 20% DR and Damage increase
neon tangle
@chrome falcon We're still getting 6s increased duration, and it's already 8s
supple path
@candid path it actually happened to me last week, were literally 4 stacked rogues next to a quest mob, hah
neon tangle
enough to get pretty far through a pull
chrome falcon
Depends on the pull
candid path
14s on Demo Shout instead of ~50s on the opener+lust is a hell of a damn nerf
HELL OF A NERF.
supple path
Well you'd have 28s in that 50s window
stark sage
it was a long time coming,
lusty grotto
jesus lol
supple path
but yeah.
stark sage
perhaps now we will get some better tuning
astral crystal
lol...
stone crag
lol
merry flax
demo shout should be off GCD, HOLINKA SAVE US
astral crystal
not like we were op with DC, let's be realistic here
chrome falcon
No, demo shout on the GCD is fine
astral crystal
it didn't impede serious attempts at tuning
chrome falcon
It means we have more than 3 buttons in our rotation
supple path
Sure, but I also don't want to be balanced around the assumption that we'd have DC
candid path
I think the already-diminished +5%Armor/Stam changes are their compensation for siphoning off all that Demo Shout value
stark sage
no but no class should feel forced to equip a 340 piece for a trait over a 385
mortal pike
Demo shout is not in our rotation..
chrome falcon
@stark sage Which won't be an issue in 8.1 when we get an azerite vendor
candid path
Look at the silver lining: We can use Devastator ag-hahahahaha
astral crystal
how does that impact serious attempts at tuning though?
chrome falcon
@mortal pike Yes it is.
neon tangle
@candid path what do you mean "diminished"?
stark sage
@chrome falcon even with the vendor, one trait being so dominant is bad game design
remote tusk
I like the changes but I expected more in a 3 week timeframe.
candid path
Just got a +5% Armor/Stam buff. Now Prot Warrior is getting another.
astral crystal
adjust your expectations, this is blizzard
chrome falcon
5% armour/stam buffs fucking depress me when I see them
candid path
Health/Armor/everything except ArPen has diminishing returns. It's still good, it's just not... quite as good as the last buff, which was conservative.
chrome falcon
"Hey we have no idea how to fix your problems but here, have some stats I guess"
candid path
ArPen has increasing returns. So does Stagger. Monk forever, I guess.
neon tangle
@candid path afaik diminishing returns (in the context of blizz) don't mean that more armor is less useful, just that armor is less useful in general against higher level targets?
astral crystal
yeah tuning knob changes i think are for classes that are finished
lime wing
"Ignore Pain 0.5 sec cooldown now" what does that mean? it's off gcd?
stone crag
no it does mean more armor becomes more useless, it starts to plateau quite heavily
yes @lime wing
old night
is it really
candid path
It's all still valuable, but it's a smaller buff. I haven't checked values yet, but it will be a smaller % increase than last time. I think last buff was a ~3.5% increase to overall health against physical damage. This will probably be more in the 3.0% range.
stone crag
yes
chrome harbor
well if it isnt it would kinda be a useless change
old night
this is blizzard we're talking about
candid path
Again, haven't even bothered with napkin math, estimates could be off a bit.
chrome harbor
true...
stone crag
check spell data on wowhead and wowdb, Live IP shows Cooldown Category as Global and PTR as Special Category
candid path
Considering that it comes as the payoff for nerfing the hell out of Deafening Crash, I'd call +5% Armor/Stam a nerf.
lime wing
That's great, right? That's what we all were asking for
chrome falcon
Not really
candid path
It's 30 pieces of silver.
stone crag
for the most part
it definitely helps
but it's not the solution to all of our problems
hazy flame
So other than qol these changes seem like an overall nerf. 8.1 prot even worse than ever, confirmed?
chrome falcon
Most of us were asking for like... coherent gameplay and buttons that actually have impact
stone crag
wat
chrome falcon
But if we're not going to get that, off the GCD certainly helps
stone crag
SB Cd reduced, IP off GCD, vanguard buffed