@junior ivy what are your other two pieces
#protection
primal crypt
junior ivy
slow gull
theres a 355dc from one of the conquest caps
primal crypt
Because you will use those 385 shoulders now
junior ivy
i heard it was worth infinite ilvl
dense lichen
dread gladiator's plate pauldrons : DC + overwhelming power/gutripper/crystalline carapace + Resounding protection ( or azerite fortification )
oh yea my bad it was 355 shoulders from conquest cap, not 340
weary pier
is there no deafening crash in uldir?
solid mist
nope
oblique garnet
nope
steel mauve
Nope
weary pier
rip
junior ivy
WHY NOT
weary pier
thanks blizz
digital arrow
whaaaat
solid mist
b/c no one on the design team tanks as prot war I guess?
digital arrow
now im mad
steel mauve
Emissaries, pvp conquest cap for 355s or 1 of 3 items from the weekly cache out of all items you can get in m+
junior ivy
😡 !!!
digital arrow
this is an outrage, imma tweet @ blizz
junior ivy
i do everything im supopoosed to do, gimme DC shoudlers
steel mauve
I got my 370 from the voldun emissary
winter jetty
Get to 2.4 in arenas and do a bunch of +13 keys if you want to over gear and main tank uld
junior ivy
too bad m+s are useless for azerite
steel mauve
You dont even need to overgear to main tank uldir
dense lichen
@junior ivy i think u should better go elemental whirl instead of the rune. Because static tanking is rare. And even worst for mm+. And even crit proc from elem whirl give nice parry+aggro/dps so it s not so bad on the paper, but yea, crit is random stat.
steel mauve
You just need to understand the class to be able to tank it
slow gull
how important is shield for tanking
steel mauve
Its our most imporyant piece of gesr
digital arrow
that block value
steel mauve
Gear*
slow gull
ilvl
steel mauve
A higher ilvl shield will give you the highest return out of any piece due to block value
dense lichen
more than a dc 385 shoulders ? xD
and yeah, i didn t noticed a big increase on my damage skill tooltip value when equipping better weapon.
But block value is life.
primal crypt
@junior ivy do the wq
dense lichen
And more block value u got, more mastery points give strong returns.
digital arrow
nah we have a belt
junior ivy
340 belt..
digital arrow
hella wack
steel mauve
A higher ilvl dc doesnt change the duration buff, it only gives you str stam and armor, and dmg increase on tclap for a higher ilvl, so yes a shield will give you a higher return than a higher ilvl dc
junior ivy
stop i hate you
neon tangle
I have not gotten one yet :/
I did get 385 gloves w/ haste and a socket today tho, so that was OK
digital arrow
lol
junior igloo
@primal crypt
You don't know if they are DC pieces
oblique garnet
you can tell if the piece has DC in by the zone tho
Its just random which piece you will get
3 times in a row voldun emissary gave me a shitty helmet
dense lichen
@junior ivy But on your 340 DC shoulders u got crystalline that, personnally, i think it s pretty MEH. Maybe i m wrong. And the defensive talent is only valued in mm+ when pack > 3. ( i dont think uldir adds need to be accounted).
And on your 385 shoulders, like he said, u got armor ( +++), str (+) at least it boost IP and aggro +some armor %, + lot of more stam and the main trait is second bis (Brace) + gemhide in defensive, very very good, especially on raid, and pretty good "ablative shielding" when "shit happens" to mitigate next massive melee boss atack ( or ?, dunno )
So the real question : do u rly manage ur tc+demo shout rotation well to take the best of it, or is this azerite trait is not so good for u ( i mean spamming TC every second GCD when avatar etc...)
junior ivy
everyone tells me dc is worth infinite ilvls and cant change ever
dense lichen
dc is worth infinite ilvls if u use it well
lusty grotto
extending Demo Shout is huge for defensive purposes
and once again daily reminder: demo shout reduces spell damage if you debuff their sources
there's no wrong way to use DC
overlapping maybe, but shrug
junior ivy
now that i know what dc does, i actually use it
digital arrow
there's no wrong way, to eat a resess
junior ivy
at first i wasnt using it
dense lichen
wrong way : no enought TC
lusty grotto
if you're not using TC, you're playing warrior wrong
digital arrow
sometimes u gotta be a quiet tank. clapping is too loud
dense lichen
@lusty grotto true
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏 for life fellas
neon tangle
Real talk, I've spent this whole time thinking that middle emoji was a cake
neon tangle
I only know this because you wrote it out on reddit once
neon tangle
on the warrior thread
dense lichen
Like too : when avatar isn t up have to wait for TC CD to be close from rdy to cast demo shout ( i think )
etc
dense lichen
delaying a shield slam prot if tc is rdy when demo, too, i guess
lusty grotto
right
steel mauve
With napkin math dc's dmg reduction is worth about 45 ilvls, not infinite, but thats not counting the dmg increase it gives you
dense lichen
short way to say it : TC SPAM 😄
lusty grotto
i got the 370 from emmisary, i can't complain 😃
steel mauve
Since it was mathed out with very rough napkin math that 15 ilvls is ~2% dr and dc is worth about 6%
lusty grotto
was using pvp's 355
junior ivy
what flasks do warlocks use?
supple path
nice, 385 c'thraxxi binders shoulders - deafening crash, lifespeed/overwhelming power, fortification/resounding protection.
lusty grotto
nice gz
dense lichen
@steel mauve yes DC is totally imba, but , ofc have to do the correct rotation to get 6%.
AND
have to take account of mid and inner azezrite traits. No idea about the DR % of them ^^
lusty grotto
@junior ivy endless fathoms
supple path
Think a 370 butcher's block (271 str, chance for 688 crit/15 sec on attack) outdoes the darkmoon card?
lusty grotto
not defensively
supple path
Yeah, I don't place a zero-value on dps, since I primarily tank in m+
dense lichen
Helps for aggro too 😃
steel mauve
The biggest traits that matter are the outer ring mostly, the other rings wont effect you a ton unless you stack them
supple path
I've been using a big red button cause I got one at 385, the click's actually surprisingly useful for stuff like "picking up that stupid add that's in africa over there" -> taunt + trinket'll do it without invoking a global.
lusty grotto
i wouldn't replace blockades for M+
steel mauve
And you shouldnt have to worry about having to do the correct rotation using dc to get full dr, because you should always do it
lusty grotto
one dps trinket with high STR is enough perhaps
EHP in blockades is good enough to keep
unless you're running yolo sub 9s
dense lichen
yeah and u can use big red button trkt with macro to cast it @heavy mirage , pretty cool for mm+ pulls
u could add a key modifier on the macro to be able to skillshot when u need it.
supple path
Yeah, need to get something like that set up, it's surprisingly clunky to manually cast/target during a gcd.
steel mauve
Cast at mouse location so you dont have to click?
dense lichen
between two gcd cast u have a short time to skillshot
i mean without interfering with your gameplay
/rotation
Personnally the short time i was using big red 350 is just macroed it on my TC with, dunno the exact command, command to cast it at my feet. Less focus wasted xD
oblique garnet
Interesting i saw a prot warrior with devastator and without dc saying that dc isnt worth it on mythic taloc
lusty grotto
...
dense lichen
that s why people dont want prot warrior when pushing keys xDDDDDDD
lusty grotto
sigh
sand egret
oh did someone say 👢 🍵 👏
next ermine
380 rezan trinket in cache, nice
dense lichen
GRATZ
steel mauve
And those are the prot warriors that are still giving us a bad name
dense lichen
<--- jealous
lusty grotto
i'm hoping for a rezan or shield on the cache crosses fingers
next ermine
That's the first rezan trinket I've ever seen drop since expansion launched XD
oblique garnet
I just want the temple shoulders from the cache
patent bridge
i have a 360 rezans on my dk but cant get it to drop on my warrior 😦
next ermine
I'll prolly swap out my 380 syringe and use rezan and a 385 bandages
neon tangle
you guys and your >355 trinkets
lusty grotto
wtb syringe
limber wigeon
I kind of like bandages. It's just a long cd ignore pain for free. I get that it's not 100% ideal, but it's not awful.
dense lichen
I guess there is literally no match between the two at the precise place where u have to switch targets, like mm+ , boss with adds... all the chance u switch target 1sec after the syringe procced xD
and yea....HASTE .
bandages is "shit happens" trinket. Blockades dont do that.
dense lichen
yea but very small, continuous.
Bandages is a very bigger heal, but at one special moment.
Blockades give nice stam especially
too
Well, i mean, two differents uses.
oblique garnet
Im currently using 380 gore crusted and 375 veiled eye on m+ and raids
lusty grotto
blockades isn't just healing, its HP increase
dense lichen
yea
lusty grotto
it's way better defensively than Bandages
slow gull
well tanking taloc was boring was with a pala or just solo soaked everything i just tanked ads on elevator ;s
lusty grotto
bandages is the new 
dense lichen
@lusty grotto do u use stamina flask ?
lusty grotto
no
oblique garnet
Strenght all the way
lusty grotto
it's not the same concept
dense lichen
but yea stam from blockades is cool. The healing from blockades is pretty negligible compared to hps of one healer in mm+.
Even smaller compared to the heal your raid healers can give u in uldir, too.
lusty grotto
not in the long run
max proc from Blockades is 583 Stam and a 10k heal
that's not negligible at all
and you're consistently proc'ing it
sand egret
for a spec that gets a bunch of value out of each hp point, i'd say it aint bad personally
lusty grotto
all of that is increased by Versa too
dense lichen
srsly, look at the hps of blockades with details at the end of mm+ run, theh compare it to the healer. It's just nothing.
Then compare it to ignore pain if u use it often, it's a loooooooooot smaller too. i think it's 10% of the healing im doing, if i remember, in mm+
(blockades is like 10% of my hps )
lusty grotto
you're looking at it only from the heal pov
you gain EHP
from the STAM + Heal combo
next ermine
i swap between my bandages and blockades depending on how i feel on the fight
dense lichen
yea, it 's clearly the best part.
lusty grotto
that's a lot of breathing room healers can have to dps for example
or to heal other people
and it's not on a 1:30 cd
bandages are crap
period
you're better off with a haste trinket
uneven mason
Nimchip is correct, @dense lichen
dense lichen
i mean, i think stam is the best part. The hps of it will save mana for ur healer, right( and let him heal like 2% more other people, right).
But if shit happens, the heal will not save u. The stam maybe. A well timed bandage will give u more hp pool trought his heal than the blockades hps+stam. But yea, only every 1m30.
That s the difference between on use / continuous proc, to me, maybe i m wrong.
uneven mason
Its not the heal, but rather the respective increase in "Until 0" that Blockades provides
that being said, nearly any other stat stick will beat bandages
since it provides a very short lived benefit
Since fights do not take place in a vacuum, if you say, looked at a short 10second window, bandages would be amazeballs
but since you have to consider resources over the greater part of 4~ minutes
bandages are complete shit
lusty grotto
6 seconds for 60k dmg is better reserved for a tank buster mechanic, which shouldn't happen in M+
uneven mason
Even in raids
dense lichen
yea but shit happens :p
uneven mason
you're better off with a much greater rage production (haste) Stronger IPs (Mastery/Vers/str) which will lead to greater resources over a fight
because remember
You're not just considering your resources (HP/Rage) but your healers resources
sure for that instant (60k is nothing vs Uldir bosses or higher keys)
But over the course of a fight, or multiple pulls - the other trinkets will win out the day, since they provide more regular and consistent benefits
lusty grotto
would be a shitton more valuable if it was more than 6 seconds that's for sure
dense lichen
therey are not supposed to. But they happens to me. Maybe i m or my mates are not good enough
uneven mason
which will smooth your damage and reduce the strain on your healer, thus faster pulls, longer fight
lusty grotto
right
uneven mason
I mean I ❤ me some Eyeball love
but I also got a socketed 385 eyeball
dats a lot of str and 40 haste
steel mauve
I mean most of the defensive trinkets are crap
lusty grotto
can't argue with that
lusty grotto
uneven mason
That trinket was raw cheese
steel mauve
Even with the buffs they arent good, i mean i think it takes a 380 or 385 eye to beat blockades
uneven mason
"Need to soak both Foe Breakers LOL ok"
15th Scyth LETS DO THIS
Yeah Iron, I just replaced my Blockades with a 360 Rezan's
because I'm not tanking mythic right now
so I don't feel the EHP is needed while I work on DPS parses to make the actual DPS cry
lusty grotto
the best tears
quartz lake
Hi guys. Is there a weak auru that let's you know if a boss/mob is doing magic vs physical damage?
I posted this question in the WA channel on here but I haven't heard back, granted I posted it not too long ago
steel mauve
Why do you need a weakaura for that?
quartz lake
Generally I can tell just by looking at the game
bronze lance
quartz lake
For instance, I didn't realize Zul was only casting magic and here I am trying to mitigate damage by casting shield block over ignore pain
thanks Roch
lusty grotto
there's a blockable spell list in the pins
neon tangle
@quartz lake FWIW his cleave is blockable
solid mist
the pins also have the blockable list, which includes info about magic dmg I think and also includes like "notable trash mobs"
neon tangle
also I thought that he did melee physically
solid mist
pretty sure he does during P2 yeah
quartz lake
cool, thanks so much guys
lusty grotto
solid mist
I think in general, most bosses/mobs are going to be doing blockable damage. Notable exceptions are the last 2 bosses of motherlode (lol) and obvious pure caster mobs in M+
lusty grotto
in the pins
neon tangle
or, sorry, the crushers cleave is physical, zul just does regular melee in p2 that's blockable
BUT, the bleed is indeed unblockable
and the thing that really hurts
lusty grotto
both Tank Notes and the Sense List have damage types
for Uldir
and Sense has M+
@quartz lake
quartz lake
👌🏽
steel mauve
To be fair shield block also increases your dps
hushed cobalt
thunderous blast or reinforced plating on 385 piece? just a matter of damage versus strength right?
uneven mason
str is armor
dense lichen
btw guys, i m trying to explain me. : D About blockades vs bandages :
i was not telling bandages is better. At all. Just told they are very different and have different application.
Like u said, bandages for "tank buster mechanics". And to counter fails, that should n t have happened.
And yeah, since bandage is a spike. It's normal that continuous proc/buff give better total.
And right, i guess even in 60sec duration blockades is doing more healing than 60k xD
And there is pretty cool stam bonus.
So yea, on the duration, blockades totally own it i totally agree with you 😃
hushed cobalt
@uneven mason 385 plating wouldnt replace a 340 DC(thats my only DC piece), correct?
uneven mason
Correct
you don't replace DC, except with DC
Basically use the highest item level combination
that gives you DC
Also of note
since I see a lot of folks trucking around with DC
but using it like a flipperhanded monkey uses a sewing needle
hushed cobalt
i guess its time to pvp for shoulders
uneven mason
You have ot properly utilize Avatar and DS for DC to matter worth a fuck
"I dids all the stuff in the guide" - Dude is using Avatar 8seconds before DS is off cooldown, wondering why his DS Uptime is like 25%
steel mauve
Badages are bad unless you can get a much higher ilvl and even then thats most due to the str on them
dense lichen
RIGHT.
uneven mason
meh
We're basically ball and chained to stat sticks
unless they decide to make tanking trinkets worthwhile
which would be like, giving eye a 45s CD
final mist
Blockades isn't used for the healing, Blockades is used for the passive Stamina.
Bandages is ~60k at 370. That's less than 2 IP casts... on a minute and a half CD.
steel mauve
And i was pretty proud of my 75% and 71% uptime on DS last weekend
uneven mason
75% is about the max
I guess mathematically its possible to hit 80% with 100% activity on the boss
and perfect timing
and low GCDs
steel mauve
It was like 75.3% on zekvoz i think so a 5 and a half minute fight
final mist
Even for a "tank Buster mechanic trinket", that's high useless. You should never die to a tank buster anyways, since you should be preparing and using CDs for them (as any tank, but especially as a Warrior).
dense lichen
@rancid yachttierr i agree with u, that s what i mdoing, but there is some guides saying :
uneven mason
Sal with the truth
dense lichen
"Avatar Icon Avatar should be cast on cooldown as well. It is worth delaying Demoralizing Shout Icon Demoralizing Shout by a few seconds if Avatar is about to come off cooldown. Do not delay Avatar for Demoralizing Shout."
uneven mason
is that noxxic?
dense lichen
icy-v
uneven mason
I mean, in a perfect world it shouldn't be desynced atall
steel mauve
Technically if done right you shouldnt have to delay, since ds has exsctly half the cd
dense lichen
but yea, if u are trampling enemy, no need to delay avatar maybe, dunno.
uneven mason
^^
Well generally you'll want to maximize DS uptime
so that feels backwards
using avatar out the box provides very little benefit besidee the RPS
which in the end is probably close to a wash with the DS uptime if you use it for IP casts
well reading it again
yes that is how it generally works
and the case being because 1. they should be within 3 GCDs of eachother at all times
- Delaying DS for avatar maximises uptime.
- the RPS from Avatar is going to force DS to CD faster
thus increasing uptime
digital arrow
Shit I've been spamming both avatar and demo off CD like a fool and not delaying them 
Learn something new about war every day
dusk locust
hm i'm missing something. if you see avatar is coming back in say 10 seconds, and you have DS, why not DS which would get the full benefit of avatar anyway?
steel mauve
Because you wouldnt fully extend ds in that short of time
steel mauve
You use avatar to extend ds, if you pop ds 10 seconds before avatar you wouldnt even be able to extend it with avatar
uneven mason
you'd get 1 extending DS
dusk locust
and thunderclap
uneven mason
at 10seconds because DC extends without avatar
To clear this up
its Thunderclap
that extends
not Avatar itself
Avatar just doubles the amount of TC you can do
dusk locust
right
uneven mason
thus adds a massive extension to DS
so much that you can have close to 40seconds of uptime
dusk locust
i'm just getting at, it seems like you can safely cast DS if avatar is going to be around in a few seconds
steel mauve
You could get maybe 2 tclaps if you timed it well, and ot would hit 2 seconds into avatar, but if you use avatar thats a gcd so you wouldnt be able to tclap during an avatar ds
uneven mason
right
but if you save DS until avatar
you'll gain
without losing much overall off of the AM CD reduction
dusk locust
maybe what i'm missing is why there's a gain
i feel like during avatar i can extend ds regardless of its remaining cd
steel mauve
2 tclaps is 4 seconds of ds extension so 12 seconds, at 10 you use avatar, you would then basically have half a second to get 1 more extension
uneven mason
because if you're using avatar during DS you're eating a GCD that could be used to extend DS
dusk locust
ok i can buy that
uneven mason
your GCDs are focused on 2 things during DS - rage spending (speeding up CD through AM) and Thunderclapping
any GCD that isn't aimed at that
steel mauve
Because if you use it before that knocks it off, you can get like 24 seconds of ds if you use avatar then ds
uneven mason
is toing to be less "uptime"
Avatar itself, is just like pressing shield slam
sure it generates rage
but it neither extends nor reduces CD
dusk locust
if you have a free revenge proc and you're about to cap rage, and you don't need the IP, do you still IP
just to cycle anger management
uneven mason
basically
steel mauve
Yes
dusk locust
hm ok that's one thing i'm not doing
uneven mason
I mean capping up IP isn't a bad thing
its jsut not done very often when actively tanking
dusk locust
if the revenge isn't free you'd cast that instead though yeah?
steel mauve
Free revenge is just dmg, ip reduces all your cds and getting you an absorb you may or mah not need
Ya if you didnt need ip
steel mauve
Our entire playstyle revolves around getting our cds off quicker with AM, just to use our cds more often
steel mauve
But you gain dps from revenge
dusk locust
so basically, it's avatar on cooldown, and you delay demo shout sometimes if avatar is about to be back
sick sentinel
If u have excess rage
dusk locust
otherwise demo on cd
steel mauve
Thats the exact situation we are talking about...
Excess rage, dont need ip use ip if free revenge, if not free revenge use revenge instead
sick sentinel
?
steel mauve
Well the situation is capping rage not excess rage
sick sentinel
Yeah meant capping rage more specifically but still
steel mauve
If you are about to cap rage, you need to spend it, if a revenge is free it doesnt boost AM, so use ip even if you dont need the absorb, ie its capped already or you arent tanking, if the revenge isnt free and you dont need ip just use revenge for more dps
sick sentinel
Ur gonna need to dump ur rage on something regardless
supple path
Feels like that's gonna vary by situation.
steel mauve
Using ip when you dont need it loses nothing as you said, but using revenge gains dps when you dony need ip
supple path
e.g. in an m+ you may be better off free revenge -> tclap -> revenge or something.
steel mauve
Gains are better than not losing any thing imo
supple path
Well you're giving damage a 0 value
sick sentinel
I mean the only time I can or get close to rage cap is when I tc during demo+ava
uneven mason
Yeah, am I the only one who actually gets mad when they see revenge is free
I'm like' FUCKING I NEED LS in 10SECONDS AND YOUR ASS IS GLOWING!"
sick sentinel
Lol
steel mauve
Ya i some times hate free revenges, usually its always free when i actually need it
sick sentinel
Damn u legion
uneven mason
now if they made revenge
cost 30 rage all the time
but refund 30 - 6 per target hit
OMNOMNOM
Also if they made revenge do something worthwhile
that'd be neat
Devastate too
I mean, I Know, SS Proc fishing
dusk locust
lol yeah i, too, get angry at free revenges
uneven mason
but really we've move beyond SS
we're all like TC IS OUR BOY
and feel sad when UF isn't going
uneven mason
Oh shit
mossy dew
hey guys for our damage does it increase with higher weapon ilvl or higher shield ilvl?
mossy dew
or is it moslty just attack power based
uneven mason
but fucking Grapple throw
steel mauve
Ap based
mossy dew
ooo grapple throw would be awesome
uneven mason
like that shoulder toss shit in Freehold
steel mauve
I think all of our abilities are based off ap
uneven mason
we charge up - and chuck the baddie over our shoulders
uneven mason
Warrior aesthetic confirmed
sick sentinel
God bless Garrosh
mossy dew
ok so I got a 380 weapon in my cache this week. weapon damage doesn't affect us as much as it does a dps spec?
steel mauve
We pulled 4 packs in freehold a few weeks ago and i legit got sick
steel mauve
It was several of those guys just tossing me around
uneven mason
for Ignore pain calculations
mossy dew
ok thanks!
dense lichen
need wrestling throw with elbows strike on the plexus
uneven mason
Yeah Iron, I did the entrance to the bridge to clear % since we were gonna invis, 3 fat guys chucking me along
mossy dew
anyone else worried they haven't implemented any changes for prot warrior on ptr yet?
uneven mason
the good news is
I didn't have to tank much
not really
I'm comfortable with prot
But I know some folks are not
primal crypt
@uneven mason youre here....never did see if you posted your comp or not
uneven mason
wife kid and school don't let me focus on getting keys up
mossy dew
I mean im running 10's for the weekly and farming 8+ but I would like for it to be a bit easier on the damage intake
primal crypt
Im trying to do these higher keys but im reforming my group
With things that help prot shine
dense lichen
@mossy dew about dps increase of ur new weapon : just look tooltip damages of skills then the increase with new weapon equipping, and calculate % increase xD
mossy dew
for my groups I like rogue, DH, frost mage/balance druid (depending on healer) and MW monk or resto druid
dense lichen
@mossy dew but i ll prefer to find me a 380 shield
primal crypt
Balance is prob my favorite to bring
dense lichen
obviously xD
mossy dew
@dense lichen same
primal crypt
On any tank
Been running double dh tho
Because rl friends are dumb
And like class stacking
Unoriginal
mossy dew
double DH is fun but I love shroud from rogues so much! it opens up awesome options in M+
primal crypt
Yeah
mossy dew
guess you could get invis pots though
mossy dew
my brother play rogue and DH and balance druid so I can't complain when playing with him
mossy dew
except our other friend plays enh sham but honestly enh damage is pretty good
primal crypt
But she started leveling her mage
So i might be alright
Mage/balance pairs up really nice with warrior
Great for kiting and cc
supple path
I love frost mages so much that I've grown to truly, truly despise fire mages.
primal crypt
Frost is just too good
mossy dew
frost is pretty good
turbid mulch
how is 380 lingering sporepod?
primal crypt
Poop
supple path
Having someone reliably putting a good AE snare on stuff is just such a huge survivability boost for us.
supple path
And force of nature is like, "hey, do you wanna know what bonestorm feels like? it sort of feels like this"
mossy dew
guys wish me luck in heroic uldir this week
primal crypt
What else rather*
dense lichen
unless when u try to pull back a mob and the frost shit make things sooooo much sloooow xD
turbid mulch
i have 370 syringe and blockades
primal crypt
@turbid mulch keep them
mossy dew
I am having the worst time replacing my 340 chest. i've gotten 3 370 shoulders and a 370 helm from eimssaries and last week I lost a roll on a 370 chest to a guy who already had a 370 chest
turbid mulch
dam thats shitty
mossy dew
this week i'll get it for sure though!
dense lichen
you should argue kindly very hard about you are so much more needing the chest . If it s in your guilde it s pretty uncool
uneven mason
Yeah Free - for sanguine my mages go arcane
or I bring a boomkin
cause Trees + Typhoon
some ommyness
mossy dew
hey do you gues prefer haste weapon enchant or armor?
uneven mason
haste
Armor is basically like putting another sheet of steel on an M1
when what it needs is gas i the tank
dense lichen
what's a m1 ?
dense lichen
oki
uneven mason
like, the type that drives through buildings
and has buildings fall on it, and keeps going
uneven mason
something like that
Although you'd probably need something close to Thermite to damage the M1
since Napalm only burns around erm...1200
and steel melts at 1600~
dense lichen
@mossy dew my first serious enchant on my first serious weapon was armor. Then i realized it was dumb and deleted it with haste enchant. A month ago it was still even more expensive xD
Yea but...it's too hot inside even if the steel is not liquefying :p
@mossy dew haste give u gcd, uptime, cd, damages, more rage= more ip
to counter napalm xD
@mossy dew armor is very good but haste is just even cooler...and counter magic/dot/bleeding etc.
( or maybe armor reduce bleeding? not sure . But i dont think so )
uneven mason
No, armor does not reduce bleeds
although, IMO, if they gave us something like that
it'd go a long way
uneven mason
give us an ability from EQ
"No Time to Bleed"
Warrior discipline that just reduces damage by a set value per instance of damage
its quite strong
solid mist
grin and bear it
uneven mason
make IP a flat 50% reduction, operate on charges
supple path
I just want to be able to block arrows.
uneven mason
Spell blocking
would certainly make us better off
I'd rather have something like "during shield block, ranged abilities cannot target you outside of 5 yards"
meaning that shooty fuck
or that rock dude
has to run up
and punch you
neon tangle
that would certainly have made siege less horrible last night
old night
you spelled tol dagor wrong
uneven mason
I did a TD 9
neon tangle
tbh it went relatively smoothly, just missed the timer by a couple minutes
uneven mason
I only puked twice
neon tangle
mostly cause of all the time wasted getting mobs out of sanguine
uneven mason
mmhmmm
neon tangle
The group was way over geared tho, couple 380+ people
uneven mason
Especially when you have a group that is like "We'll open this door with the 3 casters, and not CC a single fucking one"
neon tangle
and a 380 healer, so I just face tanked everything and it melted
old night
its never a good pull
neon tangle
and it was only a 10
old night
just go over the bridge, one pull, CC the dude by the door
uneven mason
did a 8 Freehold as well
old night
donezo
uneven mason
and
the priest admitted after we missed the time rby like 20minutes
that he had paid for all of his +10s on his raider.io
dude couldn't heal his way out of a paperbag
neon tangle
lol
dusk locust
not on a 10
primal crypt
Clear through and raise it back up to something better
Something easy like shrine or temple
Best dungeons imo
daring marlin
uneven mason
Temple has that sexy 1h
neon tangle
so I finish it anways
uneven mason
I'm trying to be nice and show I can be a good guy
primal crypt
@uneven mason dont
uneven mason
so I tank all the garbo keys for the guild 😉
primal crypt
Just lrt it rip
Let*
People like honesty
Hey wanna tank my shrine? No, delete your key.
earnest zinc
"My BiS trinket is there." Just deal with your second BiS then
neon tangle
I also very rarely leave groups anyhow, feels bad to not get people through it
earnest zinc
Whoever designed shrine is an asshole
primal crypt
All my casters want the damn staff
PLZ PLZ PLZ
Tank this 12 shrine
I need the weapon
"Sorry, i just broke my knee caps"
frosty wedge
that first boss just insta tosses 20 stacks on you with every sandtrap, lol
primal crypt
Healer was so mad that i wasnt dropping stacks
I just stood there and stopped casting SB
Killed myself
earnest zinc
TD isn't bad
frosty wedge
yeah, I do, and then kite
uneven mason
and run back and forth
frosty wedge
on every trap
primal crypt
Yup
earnest zinc
The worst ones are Shrine and Temple
uneven mason
mmhmm
primal crypt
Started doing that
uneven mason
My favorite
primal crypt
Did it on my dk and laughed
primal crypt
Because lul necrotic
uneven mason
when the HDH stunsall the little fys in the drain pipe
primal crypt
Warrior you have to work so much for what you want
primal crypt
@uneven mason ahahahahahaha
earnest zinc
They are gutting BDK for necrotic with the debuff change
sand egret
did you just HL over it and type "come on...what are you waiting for?"
earnest zinc
AMS can't clear it
sand egret
woooo
uneven mason
I leaped, HDH glided, rogue shadowstepped
earnest zinc
Now VDH will dominate necrotic weeks
sand egret
he's got ahnk
sand egret
anhk?
uneven mason
VDH folds like wet cardboard
primal crypt
What change did i miss
earnest zinc
The necrotic debuff is now physical, meaning that AMS will not work on it anymore
uneven mason
Anhk is what old timers call the shaman self res
primal crypt
Gitfukt
sand egret
hey now
primal crypt
And vdh is a wet noodle
primal crypt
Can confirm
uneven mason
which was a reagent
uneven mason
and you'd get to 10% on Illidan
primal crypt
Wow
uneven mason
and all the shamans would stand up
primal crypt
When does that necrotic change happen
uneven mason
because the lazy fucks just wanted a free kill
earnest zinc
8.1
uneven mason
Necrotic physical ability?
earnest zinc
They will still dominate when it's not necrotic though
uneven mason
Dark Iron Racial 
sand egret
MUAHHAHAA
frosty wedge
so... necrotic will be even more of a non-issue for monks?
sand egret
do they mitigate bleeds more than magic dots?
uneven mason
physical is mitigated at full stagger iirc
sand egret
does this apply to DoTs tho
frosty wedge
all incoming damage I am pretty certain
primal crypt
Wow
sand egret
as like armor reduces physical but doesn't do shit to bleeds
primal crypt
Monks coming strong
frosty wedge
I've noticed the bleeds in KR don't really do much to my BrM
primal crypt
I'm telling you though, prot warrior is about to be fotm
sand egret
well DoT's being extended via monks will have that effect, the idea is if its' reduced additionally
primal crypt
We are gonna get pretty sizeable changes and sit pretty for the rest of the expansion
frosty wedge
I feel like they still have no idea what to do with us
sand egret
either way, I'd imagine they'd clean up the Monk's case and if anything make Necrotic the exception
iron aspen
hey guys, quick question. How important is defening crash? I only have it on 340 shoulders, and just got 385 shoulders from M+ Chest. I feel like ilvl trumps this trait, but also feel this trait is a must have from atleast one source.
sand egret
if you're referring to "us' as warriors, it's still too early
uneven mason
even if they're meaningless
so the community perception rolls over
and thinks we're OP
earnest zinc
It's about time we were OP again
primal crypt
Iwant to be op
sand egret
@iron aspen it's stupid important
lusty grotto
@iron aspen a shitload important
uneven mason
Literally all it would take is them to be like "Ignore pain absorb increased by 100%" per cast amount adjusted to (reverse current formula, make bigger numbers appear at the start)
iron aspen
so, more so than 45 ilvl upgrade?
lusty grotto
45 is just about right
iron aspen
cos thats what ive feared
sand egret
but hold onto that fucker
uneven mason
If you're using DC properly, its basically priceless
iron aspen
yeah thought so
uneven mason
I think its 60ilvls to break the 8% damage reduction average
sand egret
don't go scrappin it haha
uneven mason
That being said
lusty grotto
just pray for that 370 from emmisaries
sand egret
cuz currently the moment you get a higher DC piece you gotta do the re-gearing dance again haha
lusty grotto
i did and got one 😄
frosty wedge
yeah... my first 370 azerite piece was a DC helm from emmisary
earnest zinc
What evidence do you have that Prot will become FotM?
iron aspen
yeah no luck on the 370 pieces yet, still holding my 340 from a M0, or something, many moons ago
frosty wedge
😄
lusty grotto
helm 😦
thorn yarrow
I GOT MY SHOULDERS REEEEEEEEE
sand egret
(silver lining is that with 8.1 the chances of you getting a piece with DC on it are higher so this scenario is less likely to happen)
earnest zinc
The only time since TBC we have been FotM was EN
lusty grotto
only because IP was stupidly OP
earnest zinc
Though we have usually been good
There weren't many times when we were straight up bad
earnest zinc
The only times I can think of are ICC, BRF, NH, and Uldir (debatably for this one)
uneven mason
The FoTM tend to be the low IQ tanking options
lusty grotto
yeah we're not bad for Uldir at all
ember arrow
hmm
lusty grotto
we're not at a severe disadvantage
uneven mason
The ones with "whoops" protection
lusty grotto
I tanked ICC np too
ember arrow
thats kind of a bad argument, if a class requires more effort for less reward, its worse by definition
i agree that tanking in general is too easy
lusty grotto
heroic ICC i mean
earnest zinc
ICC wasn't that big of an offender, but the other tanks were just better back then
uneven mason
If it requires more effort for the same reward
ember arrow
but dont pretend like prot is some 200 iq big brain tank
uneven mason
To be fair, so does paladin
but paladin has some reactive recovery built in
which makes it easier than Protection warriors
if you bork on a paladin, you have options
Warriors use their options
to even maintain a status quo
lusty grotto
i think that's entirely what we're missing: a recovery option
uneven mason
but BDK and BrM can basically just flipperhand their way through most fights
lusty grotto
better magic mitigation and some utility and the class is fixed
earnest zinc
Uldir is debatable because we have the capability, but the room for mistakes (on both you and the raid) is small compared to other tanks
ember arrow
i think that paladin and prot are extremely similar
uneven mason
since the gap between a well played tank in that situation is much smaller than for other classes
I think Paladin and Warriors are spot on the same
with paladins providing more utility and better idiot proofing
earnest zinc
Warriors just need some room for error
lusty grotto
they are, except paladins have a heal, and a 3 other cds they can use
uneven mason
^^
frosty wedge
impending victory baseline
uneven mason
🤢
frosty wedge
and a lower CD
earnest zinc
I'd say revert Shield Block to Legion
earnest zinc
And buff Last Stand to 100% hp
lusty grotto
Shield Block is fine
earnest zinc
Actually scratch that
ember arrow
is there a thread somewhere aboutwhat prot warr should get for utility or additional spells
lusty grotto
there's the reddit topic in the pins
ember arrow
or are we all gonna specilate about getting other classes's spells
uneven mason
Marok has that post
earnest zinc
Make it heal to full health in addition to its current effects
uneven mason
the reddit threat had some quality ideas
more or less though, yeah it comes down to Prot isn't bad, the other tanks are just better
frosty wedge
if last stand healed me to full I'd be hesitant to burn it for bolster
uneven mason
the reason why they are better is you can make mistakes and recover
or that mistakes are just not possible (BrM)
earnest zinc
That way we aren't dependent on Bolster and we can use LS to recover from mistakes
uneven mason
What if Bolster was just turned into a 20 rage buff that extended shield block by 15 seconds
lusty grotto
honestly should just make IP heal us
uneven mason
off the GCD
lusty grotto
after a certain rage threshhold
or some bullshit
leave 50% dr on it
i dont care
uneven mason
IP stacking to 3x again
would be something interesting
however
that would not address at all the issue we face
lusty grotto
vengeance weaving to heal
earnest zinc
How about giving us Argent Defender from WotLK
uneven mason
The issue we face is we're too punishing for small mistakes
any error can cascade into a death for a prot warrior
lusty grotto
right, so a heal would be a way to recover
uneven mason
I don't think a heal is the answer
earnest zinc
You get to cheat death every 2 min and get around 7% extra effective health
uneven mason
I think having our mastery increase our healing received
lusty grotto
that's interesting
dusk locust
that's not bad
uneven mason
would make it so 1. We follow the BFa paradigm of not being self reliant
- We have easier recovery from whoops
lusty grotto
actually that sounds great cause then healers would love us
earnest zinc
It would piss pallys off though
uneven mason
High mitigation + High healing received
lusty grotto
druidbro: "bros i wanna top wcl healing rankings, i need me prot warrior"
earnest zinc
"Why did they get the ability you took away in Cata because it was OP?"
uneven mason
Actually Nimchip
it would track the raw healing
the bonus could be a 2ndary adjustment based on our mastery
lusty grotto
i like it
uneven mason
Mac with the 9000IQ answer
uneven mason
It'd be really touchy on how to balance it though
and it wouldn't make mastery our best stat overnight
unless they set it too hihg
we'd still need haste for rage generation
and SB uptime
lusty grotto
right
uneven mason
I mean I had that other idea
frosty wedge
they also need to make fundamental changes to some stuff though... like block should work on physical missiles
arrows, rocks, etc
uneven mason
that blocking attacks builds up a healing pool on us
lusty grotto
that too mike
uneven mason
for a % of the blocked damage
earnest zinc
Maybe give us an ability with a 5 min CD that makes us immortal for about 10 seconds (meaning health can't go below 1)
frosty wedge
I can stop those with a shield.
uneven mason
making us far more sustainable outside of SB
but not really affecting our high mitigation during SB
lusty grotto
i think the physical projectile thing was disputed endlessly in the reddit thread
so hopefully devs saw that
because it's bs
uneven mason
But not to stagger
earnest zinc
Yea, they can still die to magic damage and the Zul dot
lusty grotto
i'm still hoping for our ravager rework, where it turns into an axe tornado that hooks mobs in
uneven mason
Guys lol I ate 99.9% of my HP in 1 shot let me stand here for 8 seconds at 1 HP like a REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
earnest zinc
Stagger seriously needs a 20%+ nerf
uneven mason
nah
we just need to be brought up to stagger levels
like a scaling healing boonus + stamina bonus the more damage we've taken
lusty grotto
at least BrMs are shit for threat
frosty wedge
the % to stagger both before and after ISB is bonkers
lusty grotto
so that's balanced somehow
frosty wedge
my monk is like... 370? and like 84% of incoming dmg oes to stagger
earnest zinc
Brew has DOUBLE the effective health against physical damage compared to the other tanks
earnest zinc
Probably more
ember arrow
brew has 1 mil ehp
lusty grotto
id rather they leave BrMs as is
if they nerf
they will cry about threat
then blizz will look at our wonderful bootyclap and nerf
earnest zinc
They aren't terrible for threat
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏 team let's go
uneven mason
Making the other tanks worse won't magically make prot warriors loved and accepted
frosty wedge
I'm honestly surprised they haven't nerfed tclap yet, lol
uneven mason
That'll only be done by Buffs and the Blessing of the SCO
ember arrow
tank threat inst really an issue
lusty grotto
you're kidding right? BrM has the worst threat gen by far, or at least it feels like it
earnest zinc
There's a difference between strong and being broken. Stagger is broken
ember arrow
its not noticeable
frosty wedge
I never have issues on my BrM
lusty grotto
idk, i pull threat easily as both prot and arms from BrMs, but not from other tanks
stark sage
i dont think stagger is broken per se, its strong and forgiving
lusty grotto
could be getting some shitty BrMs though
frosty wedge
^
earnest zinc
Druids are the ones with threat problems
daring patrol
getting enough haste to make shield block 12 seconds in Uldir feels so fucking good
frosty wedge
yeah, the problem is there's too much idiot proofin
lusty grotto
druids don't tank this expansion :p
uneven mason
You can be a flipperhanded dingleberry and as long as you're standing in the right spot and pressing taunt as a BrM
earnest zinc
The only thing I die to in heroic Uldir on my monk is the Zul DoT
uneven mason
you're going to be professional level tank
uneven mason
now now, Sco is still quite above average for a player
frosty wedge
yet... world firsts
uneven mason
that doesn't say much for the average player
digital arrow
lol
uneven mason
but still
lusty grotto
i had a brm yesterday on a WM +9 on my holy pally alt that kept pulling with taunt 😦
uneven mason
he has the bling and we don't
sadly he also has a mouth
and people listen to it
far too often
frosty wedge
I don't think Sco knows purifying brew exists
uneven mason
I think he was trying to prove that monks don't need interation to tank Mythic Ghuun
frosty wedge
that said, I really like his BrM WAs
earnest zinc
Stagger is just overpowered
neon tangle
arguably a little bit of both right now
primal crypt
Warrior too hard
Must be able to afk while tanking to netflix
During progress
monkaS
lusty grotto
Daredevil s3 won't watch itself damn it
primal crypt
Greys Anatomy
primal crypt
All 14 seasons
earnest zinc
A monk in LFR gear can tank mythic Fetid thrash without being one-shot
lusty grotto
i wanted to kill myself after 3 episodes with my ex
solid mist
as far as the "idiot proofing" I would argue stagger does more than that. It insulates an average player from their mistakes. They aren't seeing cause/effect
primal crypt
My wife enjoys it
earnest zinc
They would take a shitload of damage, but they could live
solid mist
as a prot you DEFINATELY see it
primal crypt
I ended up liking it
solid mist
"holy shit I just lost 75% of my hp dear god what am I doing wrong"
solid mist
vs. "imma throw this keg on the ground"
lusty grotto
listen, they spill perfectly good beer
solid mist
meanwhile the healer is losing his mind
lusty grotto
they aren't OP, they're monsters
twin eagle
Does the "item level is better" rule apply to rings? I have: 370 w/ Socket Crit>Haste, 375 w/ Socket Crit>Mastery. Just got a ring from the chest that is 380 no socket Crit>Mastery
odd ridge
Lmao
neon tangle
@solid mist FWIW that seems to be more of an issue of high levels of base stagger
solid mist
agreed
gleaming viper
I finally bit the bullet and boosted a monk. Currently sitting at 340 ilevel
lusty grotto
@twin eagle go for better secondaries usually on rings
solid mist
I like the mechanic from a design perspective and class fantasy perspective
BUT
you NEED to feel the results of your actions. both good and bad
no feedback = no learning
primal crypt
Monk sux
lusty grotto
@twin eagle remember socket or haste trumps all
primal crypt
Ez as that
daring patrol
@twin eagle i'd keep the sockets in that case personally. maybe use the 380 in M+
solid mist
if you don't have shield block up when you are getting pummeled by melee you fucking feel it and you learn quick
twin eagle
Thanks!
uneven mason
Sockets have an ilvl budget
primal crypt
Same*
earnest zinc
I can literally put the MT on follow for fetid on monk and still do fine
uneven mason
Yeah Garun they made a video about that
frosty wedge
if they made base stagger only like... 25 or 30% incoming dmg to stagger
primal crypt
Something about secondary stats in 2018