strings, aura changes
#protection
chilly brook
That’d be my understanding
fathom marten
Exactly my point from my post in the forums. THere's been dead silence about where we are going and the last bluepost alluded to some changes.
sand egret
client side changes take A LOT more to deploy
chilly brook
Probably because they don’t want to speak out of turn
sand egret
exactly
chilly brook
You don’t promise something that might not be delivered because of x amount of reasons
I’m content knowing we’re going to get something
fathom marten
I'm not saying promsing anything. I'm saying they should let us know what they think the problem is at the very least.
sand egret
esp if some of those X reasons are stuff you literally can't say
chilly brook
They’ve kinda already alluded to what they think the problem is
neon tangle
At this point I would just write off this raid tier / m+ season for prot warrior
sand egret
and they think the rotation can flow better
fathom marten
That's not even an answer
neon tangle
they already said they don't want to swap shit up too much mid-tier
so hope 8.1 is better
sand egret
it's a pretty straight answer to me
final mist
It's definitely an answer.
neon tangle
we've got a while until then, no need to rush things
chilly brook
It tells me all I need to know
fathom marten
Well it's not for me and to many others.
final mist
An answer some might not want to hear, but it does show that they know there's a problem and have a definite idea of what it is.
chilly brook
A) they’re going to look at making us more tanky somehow
B) our rotation is most likely going to get more smooth
final mist
Either way, just be patient.
chilly brook
Idk what else you want without having specifics
Which won’t be specifics since they’re probably changing behind closed doors
sand egret
considering how many different "problems" I've heard are "wrong" with Prot that people are throwing about, I'm sure a lot of them aren't going to be happy with whatever answer they give
fathom marten
@final mist It's equivalent of them saying to a hunter that's low on dps saying yeah your dps is low we know.
fathom marten
@sand egret Which is why I linked Maroks and Lala's articles.
chilly brook
No it’s equivalent of saying “yes your DPS is low and we’re working on fixing that”
neon tangle
@fathom marten The problem is that we aren't actually -bad-, a lot of it is people playing poorly and our class being designed in a way that doesn't really guide you in the right direction
chilly brook
Marin’s and Lala’s articles give good direction for the devs to follow
uneven mason
Marok really hit the nail on the head with his article
neon tangle
brew arguably has some of the same issues, but the punishment isn't there
sand egret
as awesome as those two (and everyone who help out) are, those are still only two specific voices
uneven mason
We're not bad, we're blow for blow equal to paladins who are considered a premium tank
chilly brook
But I wouldn’t expect the devs to come out with a similar article detailing all the possible fixes they’re looking at
sand egret
even so, their voices were just posted on Friday
so back to my, hasn't-been-a-day thing
chilly brook
Exactly what @uneven mason said
uneven mason
We have issues outside of SB uptime and for non armor mitagateable damage (this is tied to our low HP pool)
final mist
Thrav, just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean that they're going to come out with an article that has a bunch of bullet points about potential solutions.
Blizz has never done that.
chilly brook
^
sand egret
they won't
neon tangle
like, revenge being used to dump rage is not great, knowing to never overlap CDs, knowing to use a very specific build that lets us lower CDs, etc, etc
final mist
THey have an idea of the problems and are working on fixing them, I can guarantee that.
sand egret
because everything they don't hit on that checklist they now have to explain yada yada
neon tangle
It's not a straightforward spec to play, which makes us look bad in general, which effects community perception
But w/ the last buff, we're on-par w/ other "good" tanks
uneven mason
Also Ion and whoever the put in front of a mic I can assure you 99% of the time has no idea the details of what is being done at that time
chilly brook
^
sand egret
can confirm
uneven mason
He knows that they have recognized the problem and its ON THEIR PLATE
sand egret
I have to debrief mad people who make those same statements
uneven mason
But iterative work in game development is not a "We're doing X - we'll let you know when its done" its "We're working on a solution, so be patient"
because if he says "We're doing X" it might not work
they have to try X
and test it
vagrant cape
My guild downed mythic vectis with a prot warrior and a vengeance DH. Ama
uneven mason
Because right now MATHAMATICALLY Protection is strong
we're fucking OP in some situations as far as the damn code is concerned
so they have to create testing iterations to fix the real issue
sand egret
I wanna hug you right now Mact
uneven mason
or identify what makes us so punishing
THey might THINK they knwo what makes us so punishing on mistakes
but they might be wrong
they have to test, over and over
because it might really be C issue underlying A and B
if they just treat A and B
uneven mason
C is still there and will be a problem later on
vagrant cape
I just wanna block ranged physical damage :(
sand egret
the problem is actually J
sand egret
real talk: it's always fucking J
frosty wedge
I should absolutely be able to block arrows, and thrown rocks.
frosty wedge
they probably treat them as spells
sand egret
they are treated as spells
uneven mason
they're physical spells
SO they Hit you, the facing is calculated AT THE CASTER NOT THE TARGET
vagrant cape
It's blizzard's code of morality to be unintuitive?
uneven mason
block, requires an attack to be in our front arc
sand egret
it most likley doesn't carry that data
fathom marten
@final mist I did not say this in the slightest. What I'm saying is the last post said prot war needs love. Then a small hot fix happened, which was very insignificant and didn't address the problems most here would want to change. Since then, there's been nothing and nothing added to the PTR. All i'm arguing is for some clarification if there's going to be any actual significant changes. Anyhow, I'm going to hop off now. It's becoming clear that I'm being looked at like someone who is hating on prot war and blizz (Which I'm always on the forums defending prot wars, my post history is there for everyone to see) Which I'm not and I think if someone would look at the situation objectively, would feel the same way. Have a good night everyone.
silent epoch
BIS gear , where can i find that?
chilly brook
@fathom marten they also said that they were going to be pushing something in a hot fix and it wasn’t going to fix all the issues or even come close but that it should help some
I need to relink the post apparently
sand egret
but i'm sure even if it was "every FUTURE rock/wrench is blockable" we'd be perfectly fine with that haha
final mist
@fathom marten That post said that there were small hotfixes coming in the meantime while changes were being worked on for the PTR. Be patient is all I'm saying, because stuff doesn't happen overnight.
vagrant cape
@silent epoch the icyveins guide in the pins has all you neef
neon tangle
@fathom marten "All i'm arguing is for some clarification if there's going to be any actual significant changes."
The answer is yes, they are working on bigger changes, and have stated so multiple times
uneven mason
@silent epoch No BiS list, obtain 1 Defending Crash trait (Ilvl doesn't matter on that piece) stack ilvl on the rest of your slots is the quick and dirty
haste > vers >= mast > crit as a thumb
uneven mason
So, Goregar both vers and mastery get stronger the more you have of them
However, Mastery scales "better"
so at higher item levels it will flip
with Mastery >= vers
but overall Mastery has a large chunk of DR, but it is partially (mostly) RNG
critical block will end up being by far one of the largest overall sources of reduced damage in most fights
However, its 1. RNG (as I said) and 2. Works only against blockable damage
Mastery also boosts your Attack power
which buffs IP
so that also plays a role
now, Vers is 1. Always on and buffs both IP and our general DR 2.Works vs all damage
sick sentinel
And 3. Boosts our damage
sick sentinel
Right.
uneven mason
its a direct multiplier
which in the end doesn't matter a whole lot
I mean, when we get down to it
Crit scales like crazy
but is fully RNG
but is exceptionally strong when it works
neon tangle
I live the crit life
uneven mason
so that is why crit is "weaker" tha nthe other stats
chilly brook
I’ve got a lot of crit
uneven mason
because parry is unreliable
yeah I'm using that on use crit trinket from arathi
almost 50% parry when its first clicked
I think I went a full phase on Mythrax getting melee'd once
rest was parry/crit blick
neon tangle
@chilly brook I've got 1200 😦
neon tangle
I might actually have less now, I got a pair of 385 pants w/ haste
chilly brook
Only 870 haste
uneven mason
only 1000 here
chilly brook
🤢
uneven mason
yeah
dusk locust
considering swapping sets around and lowering ilvl
uneven mason
that'd be good
nah
high mastery would be good with Thrash
since you can't parry thrash
just his melee
Thash is all about the critical blocks
dusk locust
you figure not worth trying to reshuffle to get haste highest?
uneven mason
not worth sacrificing ilvl
dusk locust
fair enough
uneven mason
that armor is going to save your ass more than a few % more haste IMO
dusk locust
haven't made it to enrage phase yet but so far he isn't hurting much
uneven mason
Enrage is when the fight starts
I had a brM cotank for a while
he was all giggles until 50%
dusk locust
lol
neon tangle
wait stagger can't kill you?
dusk locust
no
chilly brook
Nope
uneven mason
ticks of stagger cannot kill you
neon tangle
what the fuck
chilly brook
It’s stupid
uneven mason
And now you know why Monks are Meta
because as long as the other tank taunts on time
you can eat an ungodly hit
and live
dusk locust
yeah just sit there at 1hp right
neon tangle
that is the dumbest shit
chilly brook
Or you could be a blood DK eat an ungodly hit and do all the work for the healer as soon as you take it
neon tangle
so far in Uldir it feels like we're the "What ungodly hit?" class
also hey if anyone missed it, they updated the blue post, no azerite gear dropped before the patch will give you the currency
uneven mason
Played properly yes
neon tangle
so no need to horde all your pieces
uneven mason
if i plan ahead
I walk out of HC Zek full combo at 95% health
BDK walks out at 20% health, cries because he misses his Deathstrike window
chilly brook
@neon tangle they say that
dusk locust
i don't believe that for a moment. i'm hoarding
real yarrow
oh yeah i figured, i have a shitton of mastery and it does seem to be better than vers
chilly brook
But they also said the same about caches in legion
dusk locust
^
chilly brook
Which wasn’t true at least twice
dusk locust
there's gonna be some period of 24 hours where it'll work
neon tangle
@uneven mason Fully agreed, we're pretty punishing in that you got to know the fight better, and lots of other shit to do w/ our rotation
real yarrow
1.4k haste and 1.3 mast
real yarrow
i played arms so its not that hard to get that much lol
just started playing prot so i need a better weapon/shield
ablative shield x2 seems to be really good tbh
real yarrow
or glad istance
open bluff
sick sentinel
Aside from the first room in KR and the shadow of go fuck yourself does anyone find the bosses in KR hard? I've done that place several times but people seem to keep saying the third boss is hard for some reason
sand egret
third boss is only hard if people dont know how to spin plates
vocal nimbus
third boss can be tense
sick sentinel
Really?
sand egret
it's incredibly simple mechanics that are layered
sick sentinel
Just park the axe vvomen in the middle of the room
then run in and out
its so easy
dusk locust
that council boss i once tried to leap over an axe to help soak that rush move... ended up bouncing off the axe and off the edge
sand egret
I actually found putting her at the edge with the axes was easier for me, imho
dusk locust
and you fall so far down that you're un-brezable
sick sentinel
I dislike putting her on an edge since I dont want an axe to overlapp with THERE IS NO CURE FOR DES POSION
sand egret
you negate half the circle by putting it off the platform and as far as I could tell the max distance of the rotation isn't the whole platform
ahh, I always get those so it's never a prob for me
sick sentinel
Yeah well, when u have 1 range dps who cant fucking kick u end up having to HL so we dont die from it
sand egret
mid is good too, but I tend to play with PuG range dps that don't enjoy NOT being at max range at all times
I can usually get it pretty easily, it's a fairly long cast
I'm honestly more worried about people failing the charge after he dies than the cast
sick sentinel
Ive had less trouble with the charge and more with the posion cast from whenever I tanked there
rather annoying
neon tangle
for m+ do you guys end up pulling double-packs?
sick sentinel
On purpose?
sick sentinel
depends the dungeon, level and affixes
neon tangle
~+12-15
sick sentinel
For this week, its best not to double pull
u dont want to drop sanguine in bad spots and grievous is not large group friendly
esp if you have classes that can slow, you might have adds that drop at the same time and a few adds that slowly walk there 3 stacked puddles
uneven mason
Sanguine in these dungeonds with the # of casters we have to deal with is just pure nut twisting fun
sick sentinel
so u end up wasting more time because u pulled a large pull
sick sentinel
for once I fucking hate frost mages this week
uneven mason
cause 50% snare + sanguine is just pure rage IRL
It changed the run from "Oh we're going to +2 this bitch" to "Oh we're 5minutes behind because of fucking compies in bloodpools"
sick sentinel
yeah this week is not one id go for pushing and hopeing to get timed keys past +10 imo
sick sentinel
lol
uneven mason
we finished it
but didn't timer it
So I got my chest but I always like to push to an 11 and finish that
so I have a 10 out the box
sick sentinel
Im good with my +10 for the week
uneven mason
should've known better than to expect to timer with alts
sand egret
at least you didn't have 2 boomkins poppin' treants at 10% hp
uneven mason
yeah that is another thing I love
sand egret
cuz I love fighting each pack....twice
uneven mason
Treaants are amazing
sand egret
agreed
sick sentinel
when done right
uneven mason
unless its sanguine
sand egret
not at 10% hp lol
uneven mason
TBH tho
the boomkins I was running with this week knew their shit
they'd treant on the big dudes
sand egret
sanguine is the affix that showcases a dps who fails at timing CC lol
uneven mason
let me yank the little ones off
and if anyone decided to stand around they'd typhoon
uneven mason
Typhoon - the poor mans deathgrip
sick sentinel
i love them too, but fuck if i dont get pissed when I pop my cds for a large group of adds AND HERE COMES THE BOYS
sand egret
and worse if you're like me and punt them off the edge only to have them trigger a billion mobs
uneven mason
had a Typhoon misaim in the first 3 pulls of a +11 Freehold
sand egret
Bladesong Typhoons mobs off the edge. Don't be like Bladesong
sand egret
mine was in SoS
uneven mason
Hunter pet followed
sand egret
what's next week?
sick sentinel
Tyran and explosive
sick sentinel
I did not include that non existent affix for a reason
My shits are hard than that easy mode affix
silk mortar
There are easier ones than that ^^
supple path
Ahh, explosive. The "what do you mean prot warriors don't have self-sustain/healing" affix.
That'll be time to pad my raider.io so strangers think I'm cool.
sick sentinel
Next week just seems like a mild headache at worst
But I want those affixs from 2 weeks from now
supple path
This week has been an unpleasant experience for sure.
sand egret
so Tyrann / Bolster/ Explosive?
sick sentinel
Yes
sand egret
ooh word
sick sentinel
If u haven't done +10 temple of sneks, do it know cause God knows ur not next week on time
supple path
Temple of Healer Leaves on Last Boss.
sick sentinel
Temple of, 20 deaths from the first boss and half an hour on the third
sand egret
I just don't go in there.
sick sentinel
I've done it on +9, but I don't do that dungeon during tyrann weeks
supple path
It's pretty egregiously miserable on grievous too.
dusk locust
galvazzt or whatever he's called either goes super well or super terribly
sand egret
that dungeon just screams - Was a really cool dungeon that probably got neutered mechanically during dev because it was deemed too hard
has all the calling cards
dusk locust
i love the theme of the first boss
sick sentinel
I hate the first boss
dusk locust
i think that fight is fun
sick sentinel
Because PEOPLE WONT FUCKING MOVE DURING THE GOD DAMN CHARGE
supple path
The theme of the first boss is "never fully understand the mechanics and hope it never comes up" right?
zinc mauve
Temple of intentionally wiping to reset infested orb guardians
vocal nimbus
The last boss is way worse
sand egret
probably found out that was hard enough in internals and clipped another mechanic from it
uneven mason
Last boss is barf inducing
supple path
That'll learn you to not have 4 LoHs in your group.
zinc mauve
Disc priest on last boss = lmao
uneven mason
especially when you have a priest healing that is like SURPRISE I"M DISC
zinc mauve
3 hours of healing later
sick sentinel
Listen man, didn't u fucking love BRH. HERES MORE BRH U FUCKS
uneven mason
BECAUSE I FUCKING HATE YOU
young iris
dps that click the orbs early by mistake...
vocal nimbus
Orbs despawn on a timer
uneven mason
I only do 7 and higher in guild groups
supple path
I think I did that fight 5 times before I actually knew what was up with the orbs.
sick sentinel
I hate everything mentioned about the orb
thorn yarrow
@sick sentinel ok but orb
uneven mason
My favorite is when, they're tunneling the hexers
and I'm over here like "Oh, 6 stacks of heartseeker, I guess I'll just fucking die now"
had that happen in a +4
sick sentinel
nah u know whats worse than that
uneven mason
#ReasonsIdontpug
sick sentinel
Man fuck temple
frosty wedge
ugh temple
frosty wedge
I legit do't think I"ve even attempted a higher tmeple to get y IO score up, I just don't care enough, lol
uneven mason
happy
but at the same time
M+ this week is just 🤢
Literally had my guild healers snag their 10s/11s and be like "I'M DONE"
sick sentinel
Oh no, I hate temple like to the point where my namesake isnt just for a funny gag
uneven mason
I logged on all like "Hey bae who wants to push this sexy <Waycrest 10> and they all started making vomiting sounds
sick sentinel
I am shocked they didnt threaten u with a gkick for asking that lol
uneven mason
Mistweaver monk answered the call tho
RIP our run when the rogue DC'd after first boss tho
zinc mauve
Rip
uneven mason
he txt'd me a pic of a comcast truck at the end of his block, so I knew it was a legit DC
cause I swear Comcast has 2 types of service trucks
one with wire snips
who just go around wrecking peoples internet
and another that goes and fixes it for 50$ an hour
digital arrow
"why pull . . . " when i pull a group that pugs are prone to accidently aggro when we fight an adjacent pack
sick sentinel
This is why I tell all tanks
Healers arent gods
we are,
and also parents
because we have walk our special needs dps/healer so they dont kill themselves by putting forks into sockets
frosty wedge
oh man, I was in tol dagor with the least fucking stealhty rogue ever this week
dude kept running ahead of me, taking wide turns, etc
sick sentinel
there is like, so many things funny about that and to unpack i cant tell where to start
dense flame
what further utility ideas could Blizzard implement to a warrior tank bring to m+? Cause from the way I see it that is one of the primary reasons why at least DH can out compete warrior as tank in m+. Cause our defensives are fairly strong. DH is very similar to us in that regard outside of healing capabilities. At least this is my understanding, could be off though. In that case correct me!
uneven mason
ranged interrupt/silence
mini grip
dispel
better kiting capability
AE stun (that is better than ours)
sand egret
mass spell reflect (plzplzplzplzplzplzplzpl)
sick sentinel
Give us back our shockwave talent, and put something more clever in our slot
dusk locust
that'd be so fun
uneven mason
Actually I think warriors need a stationary LOS mechanic
sick sentinel
nah lol, fuck the people, 2 spell reflects
uneven mason
like a "Tower Shield"
uneven mason
where in a cone behind us it creates a LOS field, 5second duration 30s CD
sand egret
puts a huge benefit in areas where it's a PITA
uneven mason
Yeah
sick sentinel
isnt that the prot paly talent?
sand egret
however, that's exploit-city
uneven mason
it basically gives us our "Grip"
sick sentinel
with that big ass shield
sand egret
kinda, but I think it's just DR
sick sentinel
ah
sand egret
this would be like a literal pillar
uneven mason
I'm talking something that LOS's so mobs have to run to us
But Boss mechanics are not stopped by LOS
so it wouldn't be exploitable
dusk locust
that'd be pretty fun tho. worgen boss of tol dagor is casting. "get behind me." shield goes up
uneven mason
and if your in the zone
when a boss is pulled
your on its table
they fixed that garbage a long time ago
in raids
Because mothers room has all sorts of LOS
(like literally the doorways)
sand egret
but you're forgetting
bosses don't only just include the boss itself
i'm talking about exploiting add ai
via LoS
uneven mason
Right so we could use it to pull the hexers in on Zul?
I'm not seeing an issue with this
sand egret
like creating a literal Tower Defense game
daring marlin
MSR and gag order is all I want right now
uneven mason
because its literally just doing what deathgrip already does
its allowing us to move mobs
daring marlin
shit would be epic
uneven mason
and yeha gag oder would ben ice
sand egret
it doesn't but I doubt this would ever be implemented so its a moot point
gag order would be something that is way more realistic
lime wing
quick question: Should I replace my 370 (with defeaning crash trait) for a 385 (with the revenge one)?
I don't have another piece with DC
shut summit
nope
lime wing
Ok, thank you!
uneven mason
TFW you get excited that you hit the first page of your spec on your server on Raider IO
TFW when you also realise there is less than 50 of your spec on your server
sick sentinel
Im trying to hit page one of all tanks on my server
neon tangle
For me? Too fucking many
I’ve timed all but 2 10’s
But I run with guild mates on the weekend
So my raider.io is still like 300
dusk locust
must be sargeras
prisma crane
yea
dusk locust
i'm one of those 3 lol
neon tangle
@prisma crane There are 158 >1k on mine
prisma crane
and last expac it'd have been 4 with me up there, but i just dont care to do them much at all so far, looking forward to possible changes
neon tangle
At least 1 is a prot warrior, cause sense plays here
prisma crane
yea Tich's gotten mad busy now that horde are stronger than ever
neon tangle
I mean, even he's only the #9 tank for the server
prisma crane
BFA was supposed to fix the faction balance; i have no proof, but it feels like it went the other way and made it worse
sand egret
well they won't really "fix" it unless they like actively incentivize transfers
prisma crane
well yea, and if factions are truly balanced, there's no reason anyone would swap
sand egret
people went Horde for pvp and pve reasons, even removing those doesn't change where those characters are
supple path
The active phasing/balance in war mode is...SORT of...doing it?
I mean my server (area 52) is like 97% horde normally.
prisma crane
right now it's so bad that alliance has to be WAY better to even get it started
sand egret
yeah i mean i'm alliance, it's quite shocking coming from Horde
prisma crane
and even then, if most raiders are horde, it's easier to recruit on horde
it wont do shit lol
sand egret
it feeds into itself
final mist
The title won't influence anything. If anything, lower ranked guilds will transfer for the Hall of Fame ranking.
prisma crane
make it an exclusive mount or something and maaaaybe people will swap, but not enough
supple path
Instead they're just doing stuff like making all the new horde races so much lamer than the alliance one and then the entire expansion's plotline is "The horde suck and might be zombie-nazis."
final mist
The last few of the really high ranked Alliance guilds have been coming to Horde for bigger potential applicant pool.
prisma crane
it's something that needed to be fixed back in BC/Wrath, the damage is done now though
yea Midwinter and Scrubbusters are the biggest two i know of recently
sand egret
unless they offer free transfers during like the holidays....
sand egret
that's exactly it
prisma crane
and unless LOTS do it, you still have your app pool cut way down
tbh, if i HAD to bet
sand egret
remove the barrier, you still have people who want to switch for other non-guild related reasons etc.
prisma crane
it'll get so bad that the only solution will be to allow cross faction guilds/raiding, etc
sand egret
at least then you can kinda see where the numbers would balance once the cost barrier is out of the equation
prisma crane
if you make it free right now, more people would go horde i bet
final mist
Put it this way: even if the rewards were big enough, if my entire guild wanted to swap to Alliance, why would I when:
- All my characters are Horde.
- All my friends' are Horde.
And 3. I can just find another Horde guild.
prisma crane
yea ^
sand egret
I guess for the same reason people went Alliance > Horde initially
supple path
"blood elf paladins are a thing, screw this dying faction"?
final mist
They'd have to make the benefits for staying Horde be so minuscule that people would actively start transferring.
prisma crane
yea and they wont do that
final mist
People went Horde because the racials were better for PvE. They won't do that.
sand egret
human racial nerf > Horde racial superiority
final mist
Nor will they make transfers free.
neon tangle
@final mist They're still better for PvE though!
prisma crane
BE alone ran all of Legion for M+
neon tangle
fucking belfs on Zul
prisma crane
yea that too
supple path
Was doing a Zul pug the other day and we had no priests and a 12 man-blood elf rotation
final mist
Yeah but most classes had trolls and goblins and shit that were better
BEs weren't OPOP until relatively recently.
prisma crane
we have issues with him sometimes, shitty healer comp for us, and horde jsut meme it
trolls and orcs
at first
final mist
Back in the day, it was Orcs and Trolls for Warrior, for example.
prisma crane
ages ago
sand egret
but as you said, even if both were void of benefits you'd have people not transferring due to their other characters/friends etc
final mist
There's no real way to balance the gap unless Blizzard starts forcing people to transfer or opens cross-faction raiding, both of which they won't do.
prisma crane
yea, damage is done, as an alliance toon, my only hope if i dont want to xfer is to hope they effectively remove factions, which will never happen cuz then the warcraft aspect is gone
sand egret
they could attempt to fuse realm pops I guess
but that opens a whole new can of worms
prisma crane
but that doesnt do anything
final mist
Realm pops won't do anything for Alliance
supple path
The only answer is a horde civil war.
prisma crane
you'll jsut have 10x the horde realms as alli realms
final mist
The problem is there's not a big enough Alliance population for raiding
supple path
Where we all get to follow Saurfang and raid with the alliance.
final mist
And it's just getting smaller
sand egret
well mythic raiding is what sticks it
prisma crane
recruiting gets so bad that people quit trying and just either swap or stop raiding/playing
trying to recruit atm is a nightmare
EVERYONE is recruiting
since everyone is missing people
sand egret
since it's still bound by the clusters, right? thus small populations feel the lack of members and therefore Horde becomes more and more attractive as a potential applicant pool
prisma crane
random people here and there poached by better horde guilds
then the people you do get just use you as a stepping stone to get into the next guild that's looking for people
final mist
And then you go Horde and there's just applicants as far as the eye can see
neon tangle
I mean, it's the same reason there like 5 worthwhile servers to raid on
final mist
Alliance raiding is dead
neon tangle
Playing alliance is similar to playing horde on all the mid-low pop servers
raiding only works with a big community / pool of people
prisma crane
if you have the right group of people, that's not always true, but then again, that's also extremely rare
dusk locust
oh man definitely had people who'd join for like a month, go from 2/11M to like 6/11M, and suddenly they're guild transferring
sand egret
yeah I think that's implying a few things
prisma crane
well yea, cockblock bosses are where you have the most roster swaps
sand egret
hypothethically, you could have one unicorn low-pop server with like just the most amazing raiders that literally no one has ever heard existed
the Narnia of servers
prisma crane
it's where you get players who feel they're CLEARLY superior to the rest of the raid, so they find a guild that's further along
sand egret
yikes, those are the worst
neon tangle
Recruit more prot warriors
Nobody wants us, so it makes us less likely to swap guilds
and like shadow priests
and ele shamans
prisma crane
lol
usually the only guilds that i see that can make it work are REALLY good ones, because people will move to a dead server to raid with them
otherwise, GLHF
daring patrol
I'm in one of those guilds right now. You have a mixture of players who at the end of the day, are capable of doing the content, they just don't take it seriously, people who are more than capable of doing the content, and feel like the aforementioned are holding them back a bit, and people in between those 2.
you hit a boss like fetid, and stuff starts to fall apart
prisma crane
it's the worst when they get toxic about it
like, i know im a better player than the guild as a whole i raid with, but i just dont care atm, and would rather just chill and see how things are going
but when poeple in my shoes just bash other players instead of help them, it goes south fast
sand egret
the last "semi-casual" guild I was in (they did Mythic and a decent pace, but only 2 days a week) ended up seeing a distinct rift in mentality in how they approached challenging content.
one part was more in the "use basic strat and let gear compensate eventually" and the other was more "ok we have X,Y,Z in our raid, let's tweak the strat to pull it off with what we have"
so it created this scenario when we'd wipe of "oh we'll get it next week (after gear)" and "why don't we try this?"
astral crystal
man, i leveled an alliance dwarf so i could get to work on dark iron, and holy shit is that faction DEAD
prisma crane
yea i always prefer the second one, i love seeing people in guilds say that this is how Method did it or w/e and dont think that maybe their strat was because they were undergeared and very mechanically capable lol
sand egret
which to me created an interesting distinction of a casual player. There's one who is casual in playtime and one that is casual in their play
prisma crane
hmm
sand egret
like I don't have dedicated hours I play nor do I do a 4 days a week raiding schedule. But I'm the type of person who even if its one day a week, will min/max my shit in that time period
prisma crane
sharding perhaps?
astral crystal
i tried both WM on and off
supple path
Know what you mean Bladesong - my work doesn't let me commit to a reliable evening raid schedule these days.
astral crystal
it was just jarring, my main's on zul'jin, which is one of the bigger horde server these days
can't throw a rock without seeing a player
sand egret
welcome to Alliance!
astral crystal
i'm only a tourist
sand egret
everyone is busy leveling up their Spicey Boiz
astral crystal
getting that sweet sweet di dwarf
supple path
Horde is superior because there is literally nothing better in this life than to arcane torrent a paladin's BoP as they jump off a cliff and then hear their lamentations.
prisma crane
lol
sand egret
sir, have you Fireblood'd 3 stacks of the KR Zeker bleed?
because that shit
is orgasmic
final elbow
I love that I don't have to move on rezan due to being an undead warrior
supple path
Oh yeah that racial is clearly gonna just be straight broken on certain pve encounters.
prisma crane
yea DID is good, but just not good enough to matter lol
sand egret
haha yeah it's allowed to be broken prob b/c no one fucking plays this shit
prisma crane
with that logic...
sand egret
but I'm into it
prisma crane
make Prot broken again
sand egret
haha I agree. Dark Iron Prot warriors get Gag Order
supple path
I'm going to go on record saying we deserve a kneejerk balance patch that makes us overpowered for 2 months.
sand egret
i hate kneejerk balance patches
astral crystal
chadlinka is coming back to save us
sand egret
cuz it takes 3 after to fix it
little raft
i actually just found a dude with some really nice level runs https://raider.io/characters/us/malganis/Beèf
prisma crane
while it'd be nice, we need more than a balance patch to fix our actual issues
little raft
wish snse streamed more so i could watch him too
sand egret
now THAT is a great Name + race pairing
prisma crane
i have to say though, did some 2s as prot the other day
supple path
Though man, I need to figure out who at Blizzard I need to stalk to leave creepy notes about how blocking arrows JUST MAKES SENSE
final elbow
ill save that guys raider IO if I come across of a whiny prot train again
supple path
Haven't done much prot arena this expansion. In legion it was basically auto-win vs any 2x melee team.
prisma crane
just link Travex's IO, he's up there too
and he's in here from time to time too
#2 prot with over 1700 score
cool dude too
supple path
The ol' crackling thunder / storm bolt
prisma crane
talents are pretty standard
supple path
Still need to try out crackling thunder while having a dedicated AE snarer in the various mythics.
prisma crane
in fact, it's another issue of ours, we dont really have talent choices
next goblet
is there a DC chest?
supple path
I got one from the azerite WQs
daring patrol
from emissaries Fuzzy
supple path
erm emissaries yeah
next goblet
nice
just gotta get lucky on it then lol
cuz i just got some 370 BFI shoulders but i rock 355 DC shoulders right now 😦
my other 2 pieces are reinforced plating both 370
final elbow
ew reinforced
supple path
the amount of azerite suits I'm up to is getting enragingly huge.
supple path
Getting that deafening crash bp meant I had to retool 2 suits for prot (uldir and non-uldir) and 2 more for arms.
final elbow
well as long as they have azerite veins
azerite veins + impassive visage = take me senpai
next goblet
nope they have shimmering haven
supple path
always shimmering haven
final elbow
well at least its fancy looking
next goblet
well 1 is shimmering, the other has lifespeed
little raft
i have 3x resounding protection on my arms warrior and its fun having a 33k absorb especially during this week
next goblet
one with visage and other with resounding
final elbow
damn
supple path
such great choices on the gear you're forced to wear.
final elbow
self reliance is like a wet towel in a tanks face
supple path
By someone who then looks at you after and is like, "Why are you not grateful?"
final elbow
haha yeah. well at least you get bombarded with azerite gear now
supple path
Like this is on a plate item. Even holy paladins prefer to be in melee range.
next goblet
all in all, my survivability isn't bad
final elbow
this week is totally on the healers anyway
final elbow
yeh
supple path
in the time it took me to get one healer app for my +9 temple I got ~120 dps
supple path
I mean they didn't even know I was a prot warrior yet!
uneven mason
that is temple
next goblet
i mean sanguine is kinda on us lol
supple path
Varies by zone - waycrest felt like it was still solidly in my control.
final elbow
but I love boralus so
uneven mason
Temple is like, the last hookup left at the party, but they have warts on their lips...so, you better be really desperate and really drunk.
supple path
(that's the healer who left during final boss too)
final elbow
dude temple with tyrannical
uneven mason
Trash is annoying
final elbow
fuck that snake
next goblet
temple.. i refuse to tank it
uneven mason
and bosses are worse
next goblet
because i hate that dungeon
uneven mason
Fuck the 1st boss
fuck the snake
fuck the lightening dude (who is the easiest boss)
supple path
I don't mind the snake that much.
uneven mason
oh and, you brought a disc priest LOL GOODLUCK
final elbow
snake on tyrannical feels so overtuned.
uneven mason
Its not if you have burst DPS for the adds
supple path
it's like...there really just aren't that many mechanics.
final elbow
and fast
uneven mason
and burst damage to kill the adds
young iris
shockwave MVP
final elbow
on tyrannical, the puddles kill snaked targets in like 3 ticks
uneven mason
Mouseover Stormbolt macro MVP
uneven mason
Prot tip X23p7
don't be in the puddles
you can avoid 100% of them
he does a barf
final elbow
she instantly snares people after throwing a puddle on them
young iris
cant spell protip without prot
uneven mason
literally
final elbow
idk my dds always stand in the puddle. and ive seen her instantly stunning people after single spitting them
final elbow
hm gotta look into that
uneven mason
yeah they happen VERY quick to gether
supple path
I just love how cool we get to look on that fight.
Charge up to the ball of snakes + shockwave, "I AM THE HERO YOU NEED"
uneven mason
but if your moving for the spit
you won't be in the puddles
Even more pro tip
intercept the person who is snaked
and then shockwave
😉
final elbow
yeah I stun those things on cd
mellow bridge
"fuck the lightening dude (who is the easiest boss)"
That guy is literally the only hard part about temple
uneven mason
the times when safeguard comes in handy
final elbow
but she does it more often
supple path
Are you really trying to pretend the last boss on temple isn't hard.
final elbow
I actually dont mind any boss but the snake in temple
uneven mason
If you're having trouble with the lightening guy you need better groupies
stark sage
fuck the snake boss
final elbow
twin snakes u only have to not hit the guy with the shied
mellow bridge
Lightning guy is literally the only reason why the top pushers are failing anything above a 17 this week
young iris
or learn to tank him in the corner for the lightning
uneven mason
Like I thought shrine
mellow bridge
Watching jay, lepan, etc
Everything is super ez until that boss
and then they cant do it
uneven mason
that's insane level pushing though.
mellow bridge
I mean what is supposed to be hard about the snake lol
uneven mason
I'd say there is a point where he is by far easier than the 1st and 2nd bosses
final elbow
yeah I guess last boss is a pain on +15, become a war of attricion
uneven mason
continuing to move
mellow bridge
First boss is only hard if people are too dumb to not hit the lightning shielded OR if the key is high enough to get oneshot pretty much by the wave
Snake is free
Lightning dude is hard af and end boss is always weird
uneven mason
I think what we really mean when we say "Fuck temple" is "Why did I bring the drunk hunter again"
final elbow
the russian drunk hunter
uneven mason
Mines Polish
supple path
I've discovered that if every time you group with a hunter you go off on a long rant about how terrible hunters are you eventually stop grouping with hunters.
final elbow
because, deep inside, we know we still love them
supple path
Not the class, to be clear here. The people who play them are what's terrible.
final elbow
dont overlap shield block casts, use bolster to fill the gaps
final elbow
and NEVER use rage on damage abilities
uneven mason
Well
lets not go that far
some of us like to parse 97% in our alt normal runs
without Devastator
final elbow
:3
sick surge
i dont really know how i give you logs
uneven mason
especially when the raid leader goes "Every one who parses under Mac has to give the guildbank 5k"
sick surge
and i am very newbish here...
uneven mason
stackin knots
supple path
What's your character name?
sick surge
jibs blackrock
uneven mason
you look like a fucking clown shoe ran your ass over
90% of playing Prot is about style
sand egret
97% is about style
sand egret
psh
sick surge
i already fixed that mates
from point one
i just swapped shoulders and relogged
^^
supple path
You concerned with raids, m+, or either/or?
mellow bridge
Your talents are pretty shit to be honest
sick surge
m+10
mellow bridge
You really should take boomign voice over devastator
and ITF over punish
Especially for m+
chrome falcon
@final elbow don't overlap shield block casts? what do you mean by that?
mellow bridge
I'd take stormbolt over the shockwave cd as well, but that's somewhat preference and groupcomp dependant
uneven mason
shit its in frnech
neon tangle
@sick surge looking at your taloc kill, you're using your CDs poorly
You're overlapping SB and last stand
mellow bridge
Are you stacking mastery on purpose?
neon tangle
At one point you have last stand + SB + shield wall all up
sick surge
thats true... i try fixing that... sometimes i panik
mellow bridge
Ilvl > stats but if you have the choice you want haste
neon tangle
and you also never cast demo shout the entire fight
sick surge
i try finding gear with haste.. but its not that easy
uneven mason
@sick surge Fix your spec to the suggested one in the pins (or just go read Icyveins)
chrome falcon
never casting demo shout is a yikes
daring marlin
finding gear with haste is pointless
mellow bridge
Not saying you have to farm that gear, just saying if you have to equal ilvl items you should take haste over mast
uneven mason
which ITF will give you higher SB uptime
mellow bridge
^
Already said that as well, but check the icyveins guide
Use those talents and read the explanations
sick surge
i will
final elbow
@chrome falcon what I mean by that is that, from my experience, most new prot warriors just use shield block on cooldown and thus have a huge downtime window
uneven mason
You're not overlapping Avatar and Demo Shout
you should be utilizing Avatar only with Demo shout to increase DS uptime
its used every other DS cast
due to Thunderclap extending the debuff of DS
and avatar giving you double TC casts
mellow bridge
Do you have a deafening crash trait?
If not, go and get one
It's SUPER important
uneven mason
You're not using Last stand at all
final elbow
as in 40 ilvl difference doesn't justify losing DC important
uneven mason
like 1 cast on Taloc? it should be used basically on CD to cover your SB gap
Don't use SB when not being melee'd (You used it when he was casting)
Basically the goal is effective uptime
not literal uptime
if the boss is casting he isn't meleeing
if he is running for his cudgel he isn't meleeing
neon tangle
^^^ I think sometimes people really miss the point of effective vs. literal uptime
uneven mason
yeah like I have effective 100% block uptime on Fetid
people freak out when I say that
because the fucking thing does a huge pause
and breathes
and moves
neon tangle
I could pad my demo shout uptime by casting it on fetid when he's running around
uneven mason
and I'm standing still
no point
I just sit there with my not so mobile paladin/DK co tank
and heroic throw
neon tangle
^^^
uneven mason
because if I move I fucking kill melee
in job lots
cause the BDK is like a fat kid in Soccer
I'm leaping across the room
limber tulip
@thyme
young iris
When soaking the Volatile Droplets, use Spell Reflection to reduce the damage you take (20% reduction)
uneven mason
and he's like back at the fuckin wall
^^
If its not physical damage, use spell reflect
neon tangle
I also sacrifice some demo shout uptime on m zek'voz to make sure I have it up for every combo
uneven mason
^^
I also sacrifice DS uptime on Zek to make sure i have avatar for every add wave
because them DPS paddings
CRY HDH CRY!
chrome falcon
i think the poor guy stopped reading ages ago lol
neon tangle
also just like, those adds have a shitload of health
uneven mason
"Devil (Hunter) May Cry"
chrome falcon
hard to give advice to people who literally don't press their abilities
young iris
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-pve-tank-uldir-boss-by-boss is the cheat sheet for general tips
final elbow
to be fair, prot is overwhelming
you need to do a lot more than other tanks
but if you do, you can compete
young iris
its just unforgiving otherwise
neon tangle
is true, lots of little tricks / planning to get the same results as a face-rolling monk or dk
final elbow
but I would die from boredom if I didnt tank as prot
neon tangle
gotta know every mechanic, the timing, how that lines up with your CDs, etc
final elbow
AND have the muscle memory to use them on time and while panic moments
mellow bridge
I thought I'd level a tank paladin just to have some diversity
jesus fuck man so boring
The character is a holy paladin now
final elbow
yeah healing in general is something for every adrenaline junkie
steel mauve
Also shouldnt take punish over ItF like ever pretty much, the haste is just so good over 3% DR
thorn fox
I was thinking how cool would it be if prot had a talent or something that allowed them to place a shield down where they are standing that would provide LoS. You could use it to bring ranged into melee and escape certain mechanics like fear and such. It would be unique but something tells me it would be impossible to implement
graceful mason
Not hard to implement but the amount of work to fix all the glitches and oob that would happen would be insane
thorn fox
Ya I’m thinking probably not worth the effort. But it would be situationally super useful. Group utility if it affected allies in mythic plus or raids even
distant tiger
hey guys, any tips for rupturing blood at zul second phase?
graceful mason
Even if they made zerker rage raid wide break fear
distant tiger
i die everytime
distant tiger
i keep my SW , LS and rallying cry for phase 2
graceful mason
Because 90% of your survival is their deal
distant tiger
i use everything
graceful mason
At that point
distant tiger
and still die 😦
daring patrol
don't leap out until the last few seconds so you can stay in and IP yourself
graceful mason
Use a bop to remove the first stack as well
distant tiger
we have no monk/pally healer :S
graceful mason
Then SW for the 2nd
steel mauve
Externals and focused healing
distant tiger
bop remove stacks?
steel mauve
If you have any pally leap out and call for a bop
graceful mason
It drops it on the ground too
steel mauve
It immediately drops the ground effect and removes debuff
distant tiger
undewrstand
graceful mason
I usually reserve the pain supp for myself as well
steel mauve
Externals are a god send as well, but its really up to the healers
mellow bridge
Any pally works, doesn't have to be a healer
steel mauve
Other than ip spamming and your big personals theres nothing you can really do
zinc mauve
try to save shield wall for second phase if you can
3 tanking it also helps a lot if you arent already
neon tangle
@distant tiger zul bleed melts tanks, healers just gotta spam heal you
I try and build up a little rage while I can on the boss so I can get off an IP or two after I leap to the edge
rather than spending it on IP while I'm in range of healers
blissful pebble
Mythic Vectis - How many stacks of Evolving Affliction do you do the tank swap at in your group?
zinc mauve
I've only done heroic, but I usually do two; if the other tank is a bdk they can usually get away with 3 stacks quite handedly
chrome falcon
@blissful pebble Should be nothing preventing you from swapping at 2
blissful pebble
Well I can do it at 1 or 2
zinc mauve
swapping at 2 is generally better, otherwise the run the risk of using taunt to much and vectis might become taunt immune
dapper sky
You'll take less damage doing 1 stack however the taunt window is much tighter so picking up adds can be a bit more stressful
zinc mauve
you have spell reflect on a pretty good timing to mitigate a lot of the damage from the second stack and the add wont be doing much damage anyway, so you have plenty of rage to use IP with
i dont know if demo shout further reduces the damage
steel mauve
You can also spell reflect the debuff that gives the permanent stack thats passed to other players and just not get the debuff
zinc mauve
yep
dapper sky
You can block the blood bomb thing in p2 if I recall.
zinc mauve
to prevent it from happening altogether, ive found it best to mark both tanks
i know you cant SR it
steel mauve
You can if you are facing him
zinc mauve
interesting
solid mist
just not arrows
zinc mauve
i was not aware of that
chrome falcon
weird
solid mist
😏
chrome falcon
i wouldn't even want to use a block charge in that phase tbh
steel mauve
Ya, shield block works, but you have to face him
chrome falcon
but it's nice to know you can actually do it
steel mauve
Nothing else going on and they will recharge before he becomes active again
chrome falcon
better to save that rage for an IP though
steel mauve
But it also gives you the perm buff stack
steel mauve
Oh wait no the circles dont
steel mauve
Just gives a dot
I was thinking every thing gave the stack
I dont usually try to soak em either way, i just watch for ones in egypt in case i need a last second leap
Every one else actually rushes to them so i dont get a chance to soak
chrome falcon
i always have a vector during that phase so i stay away from them mostly
zinc mauve
having your tanks marked appropriatly helps greatly in avoiding accidental vector relaying
steep lily
You can spell reflect every other vector though, so it helps to have the group drop them on you whenever possible to reduce the groups stacks from building up.
little raft
if you wanted to spec purely for damage as prot (probably unfeasible), maybe not even use a shield, what kind of talents would you choose? kinda bored and was wondering what kind of #'s it would pull
stark sage
you have to equip a shield to press your best damaging ability
vocal nimbus
you equip a shield
and the talents are the same for every kind of content
and for both offense and defence
little raft
I meant moreso.. assuming you weren't planning on tanking anything
I'm not entirely sure that talent selections would be the same "for every kind of content"
vocal nimbus
they are
you only get to choose between heroic leap speed boost or thunderclap range
solid mist
BV + AM = more rage = more dps
vocal nimbus
you are also free to choose whatever in the cc row
but almost everyone goes with stormbolt
solid mist
so what's best for defensive is also best for dps
vocal nimbus
Its mostly the same
steel mauve
Dev pulls barely ahead of bv on literally pure single target, but throw in a second add and bv wins due to the dmg debuff on enemies and all our aoe shit
neat harbor
anyone using elv ui here?
uneven mason
yeah
neat harbor
reeeeee
I cant get vehicle UIs to show for some reason without turning it off and reloading
Im on that silly quest in stormheim where you dance and spin with the boomkin creatures to summon the bird or whatever
and its this gold plated vehicle UI that comes up, but doesnt show in elv
like button 1 dance button 2 spin etc
just shows literally nothing
any luck getting vehicle shit to display properly ?
mortal pike