It isnt
#protection
final mist
There's nothing meaningful about having any amount of Haste other than the reduction of SB / increase to Rage gen. But you never, ever, ever worry about Haste over ilevel.
Even trinkets lose value over ilevel, not Haste.
If you have a 940 Rezan's and a 970 Syringe, you're going to use the Syringe, with your Haste not being taken into account whatsoever.
sick sentinel
I mean if you had let me finish explaining, I would have said that
Since we all know ilvl doesn't matter but for one thing for us atm
final mist
How am I misreading into what "U want around 41-43% with 2-4 coming from into the fray to get a 12 second SB recharge time, which let's u replace rezan trinket for nearly anything else" means?
sick sentinel
Because u replied right away
final mist
How am I misreading into someone asking what Haste is required and you answering "45%"?
sick sentinel
Without letting me finish
I'm not on my computer, writing on phone so
It takes a did longer to write
final mist
There's no explanation required, because what you said was flat out wrong, mate.
There are no Haste caps, for the spec itself or any trinkets.
End of story.
sick sentinel
Tell me where I said there was a haste cap
final mist
[6:23 PM] IntenseNerdRage: Around 45%```
vocal nimbus
U want around 41-43% with 2-4 coming from into the fray to get a 12 second SB recharge time, which let's u replace rezan trinket for nearly anything else
sick sentinel
Does that say cap
final mist
That's implying there's a Haste cap or minimum.
sick sentinel
No tell where that says cap
Where did I say haste cap pls
Tell me
Don't assume what I said as cap
chilly brook
TBF
sick sentinel
Because I never meant as cap
vocal nimbus
Sounds like a cap to me
final mist
You can try to dance around it if you want, but what you said is wrong. And when told that you're wrong, you respond with "Your right but if you can't reach that point without it's best to keep until that ppint".
Which is also wrong.
There are no Haste caps or "goals", as you put it.
sick sentinel
There is no goal lol
sick sentinel
U said there is no goal
sick sentinel
I said there is a goal
final mist
There is no goal.
sick sentinel
I know exactly what I said, there is a goal
final mist
There is no goal. You get as much Haste as you can within the constraints of your highest ilevel gear.
chilly brook
There’s no goal my man
ilvl is king
Haste is great
But it’s not going to be more important than gear
final mist
Secondaries are so close (and still behind ilevel upgrades) that you always take your highest ilevel gear.
Even for trinkets.
sick sentinel
So if the guy is 370 in all slots, he shouldn't go for haste?
sick sentinel
Once again, had been allowed to finished I would have said so
But because some people want to jump at a thoart this whole thing derailed
final mist
Which is an entirely different point from the one you were attempting to make.
vocal nimbus
@queen owl blood siphon
chilly brook
Unless you count 170% haste a goal even when it’s 100% unobtainable
Odd you should mention same ilvl tho
Cuz like
Seems like you’re making a case to not use haste gear at same ilvl if you’ve obtained ~45% haste
Which is wrong
sick sentinel
yikes. whats with this backwards retarded arguing? Go for highest ilvl, while always trying to get as much haste as you can. Always.
chilly brook
^
sick sentinel
Again would have said so at the god damn start
If sal had just waited for more than -0 seconds
amber siren
Wait why even 45%? Is that some SB nonsense or?
sick sentinel
Ur shield block recharge gets lower
chilly brook
But you didn't say it at the start
chilly brook
The first thing you said was "if you have 45% haste you can replace Rezan's with anything else"
sick sentinel
Because I assume he has rezans
chilly brook
When no one had even mentioned Rezan's it was awfully specific
Why would you assume that
And even if he does
steel mauve
There is no magical number of haste
chilly brook
Why would you assume that it was lower ilvl than anything else he has
sick sentinel
Because atal dazar has 4 piece we like at 370 from there
steel mauve
Literally ilvl over all, and only go for stat priority on same ilvl gear
sick sentinel
Yes I am
chilly brook
Seems like you're just backtracking to CYA
sick sentinel
I'm also assuming he's at 370 on his pieces
steel mauve
You cant give a specific number of haste needed, or a magical target of what haste we should be running, we dont have soft caps or hard caps, so theres no exact number
chilly brook
Also true ^
sick sentinel
Yes I can, why wouldn't I tell a person go for this goal, assuming they come here fully maxed at heroic ilvl gear
steel mauve
Because there is no goal
chilly brook
Because there isn't one
distant meadow
good lord what have i done lol
chilly brook
Again unless you can obtain 170% haste there's no goal right now
steel mauve
Its literally as much haste as you can get with iut sacrificing ilvl, so if you get a 5 ilvl upgrade and lose haste on a piece its still an upgrade
sick sentinel
If ur at the same ilvl across all ur gear, why wouldn't ur goal be to get ur haste to a certain point
steel mauve
Your sentence would be correct if you didng add to a certain point at the end
soft kindle
@distant meadow this is how you weed out the mongos, don't worry about it
"why wouldn't ur goal be to get ur haste to a certain point" this means, literally nothing
sick sentinel
When I mean a certain point I mean in the sense of ilvl
steel mauve
If you have 2 same ilvl pieces go for haste, thats it, there is no goal, no certain point
sick sentinel
Yes there is
sick sentinel
No I'm not
digital arrow
"2+2 = 1, who care"
chilly brook
Considering how WF'ing works the "goal" is fluid
sick sentinel
By not giving a goal ur not letting anybody go strive for anything
distant meadow
lets try this instead
what % of haste w/o stacks of ITF do i need to get 12 sec SB?
steel mauve
"As much haste as possible with out sacrificing ANY ilvl" explains enough
chilly brook
"Go for ilvl, then if same ilvl prioritize haste>vers>mastery>crit"
That's not letting people strive for "anything"
It's giving them guidelines
Guidelines that are proven effective
final mist
Brawley, don't worry about SB's recharge. GO for highest ilevel, go for Haste within same ilevel gear comparisons.
That's all that Prot's gearing worries about.
chilly brook
@distant meadow I tank Mythic Uldir at 13% haste without any stacks of IF and it's not an issue
distant meadow
okie dokie. im so new to prot idk if im playing it right. im getting wrecked all over the place
steel mauve
The icyveins guide is a good starting point
distant meadow
ive been trying to follow it to a T, but i cant figure it out i guess
steel mauve
Has a lot of good info in it and is actuall well written and up to date as far ad i know
chilly brook
If you prefer video format guides I've got one I can throw you
chilly brook
Supposedly it's pretty decent
digital arrow
lol
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
steel mauve
Just make sure to be ocd about demo shouts uptime 😉
daring marlin
^this
daring marlin
demo is your best friend
steel mauve
I actually made weakauras to make a sound effect for both demo shout and avatar when they come off cd
distant meadow
lol seems like a bit much
sick sentinel
Some can't use their eyes good enough to track
steel mauve
It works for keeping 70%+ uptime on 6 min fights though
distant meadow
i mean i use TellMeWhen for my buffs and stuff but i dont have fireworks and sound effects or anything lol
chilly brook
Unfortunately tracking mitigation and keeping an eye on what's coming up is important for prot.
steel mauve
Insults arent really necessary, and it allows me to keep my attention else where with out needing to worry about my cd
I use sound effects for a lot of things, especially tank swaps since dbm does things differently
sick sentinel
It's not insult tho, people have a problem tracking good with their eyes
Too much things happening for some people to naturally track isn't some joke
chilly brook
You'd be surprised what people can do if they have the right mind set and dedicate themselves to it
amber siren
If using weakauras makes the spec accessible for more people than 🤷 as long as they're clearing the content they want to clear
sick sentinel
Yeah I have no problem with it, I know a few people who depend on it but that's for them
sick sentinel
I dont like it because it doesn't give me enough details or too little. But also because at this point for myself I've been playing wow for so long, that I've naturally learned how to look at everything
But that's just for me
And also I tend to not like add-ons that aren't ui improvements with dbm being a exclusion
digital arrow
warrior has so many cooldowns to look at and i havent played other classes much but it has the most defensive cooldowns right?
sick sentinel
Overall? Like 4
Big ones, 2
Idk about other tanks
I think druids only have thrash last time I checked
amber siren
I think bdk has the most
chilly brook
WA's gives you as much detail or as little as you want
That's the beauty of it
And it is a UI improvement tbh
sick sentinel
Ui meaning it fixes the actual ui
chilly brook
There's a reason why all the top raiders' UI appears similar to a certain extent
sick sentinel
I look at wa as gameplay
chilly brook
But it's not it's UI
sick sentinel
Technical yes it is because it is a ui, but it influence is.more in line with gameplay
It does not fix the UI like bartender or sexy map as an example
chilly brook
If you're looking anywhere else than the center of your screen for information then your UI needs fixing
sick sentinel
I know it's a ui add-on but I categorize it more with gameplay since that is what it's supposed to affect
chilly brook
It's influence is taking pertinent combat information (something a UI gives you) and allowing you to put it in a highly customizable and easy to glance at area and format. A good UI will affect your gameplay.....
That's kinda the point of a UI
It's to inform your actions
You're not going to charge someone in CoD when you have 5 rounds in the mag
steel mauve
I mean technically any thing on your screen falls into the UI category
sick sentinel
Yes that's why I understand that its a UI addon
chilly brook
If you take that away you affect someone's gameplay
sick sentinel
But if you compare it to in my eyes another UI add-on like bartender or even SM, those don't actually effect gameplay
steel mauve
In learning to make my own weakauras though i can make them show as much detail as i personally want, and there are so many things you can do, and have them show you, its completely unreal
chilly brook
Bartender can absolutely affect gameplay
sick sentinel
Compared to WA, not at all
chilly brook
Make a small bar with your key abilites and put it under your character and it starts drawing more of your gaze to the center of the screen
chilly brook
It's not clutter if it serves a purpose and allows you to play better
sick sentinel
The problem with that, the bar does nothing different then if u had it base tho. It doesn't inform you of anything or do anything gameplay wise to affect you
Wa helps u track things
sick sentinel
But bartender doesn't show u buffs/debuffs,etc.
Just ur skills just like any bar would
U just moved it for comfort
chilly brook
All the relevant information on default UI is in the peripherals where it shouldn't be
Bartender allows you to change that if you don't use WA
sick sentinel
But it doesn't influence as much as WA is all I'm saying
chilly brook
Or better yet hide the bars if you are and allows you to have better vision
sick sentinel
If u don't use WA yeah sure probably idk
I don't use WA and I keep my screen as clean as possible
But that's a me thing
broken kite
would recommend using a weak aura to track spell reflect proccing. it's fun
chilly brook
sick sentinel
I want to barf
chilly brook
tbh I think this is fairly clean
chilly brook
The only unneeded thing is the debuffs that aren't mine
Everything else serves a purpose
sick sentinel
Everything small, everything at the bottom of my screen
chilly brook
If you're looking at the bottome of your screen to see something then your gameplay is affectedx
sick sentinel
I dont
sick sentinel
I keep everything at the bottom so I don't have anything on my screen
chilly brook
A lot of the stuff doesn't even pop up unless in combat
chilly brook
I'd hope it'd be ok I spent a lot of time on it lol
chilly brook
I mean tbh I personally think your character health frame is a little low and what do you use to track Shield Slam for example?
sick sentinel
I actually made it smaller, and my brain. No I'm not kidding
chilly brook
wut
chilly brook
Shield Slam has a chance to reset on devastate, TC and revenge cast
sick sentinel
Oh NVM
chilly brook
There's no way you can see that without actually looking
sick sentinel
Thought u meant shield block
Omniccc flash bangs my eyes
Whenever I get a shield slam
Well also pve content is really slow in my eyes
Nothing is so fast that I can't look at my chat window and say something and miss up
chilly brook
Do you mythic raid?
sick sentinel
Never plan to
chilly brook
Cuz like mother says otherwise
sick sentinel
It needs to be faster
chilly brook
I mean you're not doing high end content and saying PvE needs to be faster
¯_(ツ)_/¯
sick sentinel
It's pve, regardless of the difficulty it's not ur going Mach 10 in a fight
Unless ur going Mach 10, which I'd love to see
chilly brook
You'd be surprised at how fast you need to react to some things in PvE or do things to keep up with what's going on
sick sentinel
At first yes, but if u killed a boss so many times u find the tempo of the fight
chilly brook
Sure
sick sentinel
Not going to say if I did talco mythic as an example, shits slow I never did it so at first its going to fast and crazy
chilly brook
But you also find tempos of certain opponents or classes in PvP as well
And Fetid never feels slow as offtank
Since you need to have mitigation up every four autos
For the most part this tier has been really good at keeping the fights engaging by making a lot of the execute phases feel like a battle of attrition between you and the boss
sick sentinel
It also has to do with lusting at the start for the most part isn't a smart idea anymorr
On some fights u can get away with it
But yeah I do like they don't front load everything at the start and save it for the end
distant meadow
@chilly brook Thanks for the video! way too use to playing bdk (since WoD) and I just wanted to try something new and reroll possibly
chilly brook
No problem I made it to help people so I hope it does just that
chilly brook
oof
distant meadow
oh lawd lol
but yea, it was informative which is always a plus. just gotta hit the learning curve good now
distant meadow
been doing that for years already
sick sentinel
Good
soft kindle
Yo Griff
soft kindle
You care for fury log at all, or was it just a
hey, this could be fun
just to completely de-rail rq
distant socket
Hey guys. Just curious, whats everyones highest key so far?
chilly brook
Oh I just play DPS for fun every now and again @soft kindle
soft kindle
👍
sick sentinel
on time or completed?
distant socket
Completed
sick sentinel
I do not find any particular reason to do something more than 13
distant socket
Why 13? 😛 Doesnt gear cap at 10?
sick sentinel
you get 4 pieces tho
soft kindle
more gear per level above 10
no
each level above 10 gives a higher chance at an additional piece, 13 is 100% chance for 4
when in time
and on it goes
depleted key is -1 piece of gear from that
distant socket
Got ya. that makes a lot of sense, thank you. Someone was telling me that +10 is the gear cap for weekly chest and theres no incentive to go above that other than competing for times, which I thought seemed silly
sick sentinel
well you should do at least a +10 every week
distant socket
Yeah for sure
minor timber
tanked a couple of siege 9's tonight, felt good. need to work on using cd's preemptively but overall went ok. i know siege pretty well so only probs were the usual ones, range on 1st boss, dodging shit last boss
packs before 3rd boss that do the poison debuff i should be kiting a little yeah to give the healer a chance to catch up
sick sentinel
get a non-priest healer than can cleanse poison and you're good
merry cave
Priest heals feels awful on war compared to others
supple path
Ugh, the joy of having your healer leave during final boss of temple of seth...so you get to do temple of seth again.
potent aurora
hows prot looking on ptr?
spare hinge
Hi, I'm new to do Protection Warrior and leveling up. I have question... what is Ignore Pain do?
soft kindle
Ignored 50% of damage taken up to X amount
spare hinge
So can do stacking IP?
steel mauve
Up to a cap yes, but any more of the cap and ot wastes rage
I think its still like 1.5 times an original buff, but could be 1.3X, idk if they changed it
spare hinge
alright, going need to add weakaura
steel mauve
Theres an amazing ignore pain weakaura in the pins
Tells you how much duration and absorb is left, and the numbers change, red number is fully capped absorb, yellow numbers mean the next ignore pain you cast will over cap, and white means the next cast will not cap your absorb
spare hinge
thank i see that
prisma night
iirc its 1.3
modest totem
it's 1.3 last time i checked
lucid kelp
yay..mythic vectis is dead....time to work on fetid
fair crystal
Gratz man 😄
fair crystal
yeah we start on him Wednesday should be fun 😄
zinc mauve
@potent aurora not much new for us from the PTR yet, so we're still in the same state as currently; good, but hard to use
just an azerite trait or two i believe
@spare hinge my recommendation is also to get a block tracking weakaura. the one in the pins works fantastic since it shows both Last Stand Bolster and normal Shield Block
if you havent already, read up a guide or two and start practicing
The most important thing to know about prot warrior though; when you are tanking, your mitigation is proactive. Blowing your defensives after taking massive damage is bad. In 98% of cases, your defensives are best used immediately before taking large damage
Shield wall is fantastic mitigation but it wont help you much if you're already below half health, for example
don't be afraid to blow your cooldowns on trash either. Our only significant CD is rallying cry while all the others benefit from Anger Management. Cooldowns are meant to be used B)
sick sentinel
Finally I beat another +10 this week, sots no less
manic perch
@sick sentinel wow gz dude that place wrecks my anus.....
sick sentinel
Yeah this week is not forgiving
Was able to do FH and SotS so far, any other dungeon has been a pain
Lucky for me, just need to do 5 more dungeons at +10 then I can move up to +11
I want to end this season with all dungeons at +12 or +13 on time with pugs only
Next week seems like a mild headache but I'm just watering at the mouth two weeks from now with those affixs
Burst/quake, easy keys all day
zinc mauve
i was feeling a little burned out this week, mostly because I had tons of homework + exams so I didn't feel much like pushing mythics
and just when im feeling better, next week looks aids
zinc mauve
thats next week for NA
sick sentinel
Thats, what were getting too
affixes arent different from region to region i beleive
I want that 2nd week affix tho
burst/quake
so free that week
zinc mauve
explosive seems like aids for warrior, cant clap it dead
i havent played with it before
amber siren
it was easier with 2pc t21 but still manageable
sick sentinel
so if they didnt fix issues with bosses that can CoS the shit out of u
I still love the 21 2 piece
and hate looking at tos tier
tiny sphinx
t21 2set prot was probably the greatest set bonus ever conceived
silk portal
I miss WoD Protection
cinder nova
I miss talents.
The entire spec is loosely held together with sutures, tbh.
I'm still just fucking gobsmacked about how so many bum talents made it through alpha and beta
silk portal
I tried tanking a Heroic Dungeon a few days ago on my warrior, which is 372 Fury and 365 prot
I've never had such a boring time playing prot warrior
raven kernel
If you think prot is boring
Then every tank is boring
Also call the cops before you touch bear, they might arrive in time before you kys
raven kernel
Eh u could pull half the instance and pop avatar
Would be pretty fun
For a few globals
amber siren
i ran deadmines as prot and i didnt have fun wtf blizz fix ur brkn gam
orchid elm
hey guys, trying to get my prot spec in a decent state, i already have a 370 rezan eye, but don't know what trinket i should aim for to replace blockades
sick sentinel
Blockades is pretty good all things considered
raven kernel
Or any high ilvl str dps trinket from uldir if u raid
sick sentinel
The only real trinkets from uldir is the syringe
Which is a good crit trinket if u don't have the butcher or warfront trinket
raven kernel
I really like mythrax trinket but some ppl think it's worthless
sick sentinel
I need that trinket
silk portal
@proven tundra I did a Call to Arms, if I had played a Blood DK, Prot Paladin or hell even a DH I would have enjoyed it at least. Protection is just so bad rn
silk portal
Prot is boring too
sick sentinel
I mean, tanking generally speaking is boring
You're not doing much, ur looking at a thing and reacting
proven tundra
not gonna lie, rounding up mobs then hitting thunder clap every other GCD with avatar and shout up is pretty fun for me
old sage
I like prot warriors, amazing damuush
silk portal
I like managing things, and you can't manage things properly as Prot due to IP and Devastate. They should make Devastator baseline and rework IP to something more engaging
sick sentinel
No, we dictate fun in this discord
orchid elm
i have a 375 syringe, i'll give it a try then, i thought crit was our worst stat
sick sentinel
U must have fun
old sage
have fun MY way or DIEEE!!
sick sentinel
It's not our worst but it's better than vers imo
Because it actually does have more use now than before
raven kernel
Sounds like you're stuck on the first hump of prot that most people run into at first
Can't get around the gcd
silk portal
Tanking on my Blood DK is a whole lot more enjoyable for me than Prot Warrior, because of Boneshield and Runic Power
sick sentinel
Do you have more play time with prot or bdk?
sick sentinel
Cause that can be a factor to ur enjoyment as well
orchid elm
tanked some +5+8 key this week to give the spec a try, found it pretty fun to play
actually had things to do
wich was fun
silk portal
I have roughly the same playtime woth both specs
I only really play fury these days because of my distaste towards prot in its current state
sick sentinel
Well prot isn't as kind as bdk is, so I'm not surprised
silk portal
I find mismanagement more punishing as blood
Because if you end up with no runes or rp you're out of luck
sick sentinel
While u are right ur not punished as bad as u think
raven kernel
Oh no you need heals from the healer now
sick sentinel
Of course I don't know if ur talking in the raid or m+ sense
sick sentinel
Wait this expac or last expac?
silk portal
This expac
sick sentinel
Ok
fathom marten
Doesn't it seem kind of strange that they haven't done anything to prot wars for the ptr?
They mentioned they are looking into it prior to the small (insignificant) buff we received to vanguard and like dead silence since.
cinder nova
It's called mollifying.
wind plank
Why prot needs a buff
amber siren
Mainly just super punishing during AM downtime
cinder nova
Which is longer now than ever.
raven kernel
They clearly were nowhere close to a finalised rework and now that holinka is back they're prob gonna run it by him too and. Go through multiple internal revisions before we see anything on ptr
Orrr..... Who am I kidding, small indie company, we just gonna go get 5% hp buff and call it a day
cinder nova
lol
It says a lot about a company if the playerbase is so jaded that they assume the worst in its capabilities.
Just boils my shit that they got so much prot feedback
And did nothing with it
Hell most of the classes
old dagger
does Iron Fortress stack?
cinder nova
Yes.
Anything that has a variable value across multiple ilvls is a trait that stacks
But only the variable value does
ie. all DC regardless of ilvl gives 2s on DS
But will have varying increases to TC based on the ilvl
So the damage stacks, the 2s don't.
old dagger
ah I see, thanks
merry cave
Lol 3/3 of my last 370 cache items (one chest, one helm one shoulders) have all had DC on them -_-
the luck is real
silk portal
I've gotten three pieces with Simmering Rage for Fury
merry cave
people play fury O_o
silk portal
People play Prot?
silk portal
Legends aren't real tho.
manic perch
Legends never die
cinder pasture
Unless they forget to use their AM....
sick sentinel
Stack triple DC and go pad the dps metters
@silk portal we have to manage our CDs to not fall over in an instant
If you tank actual hard content only then you will understand how prot plays
When doing easy content you are just dpsing
mental scarab
@cinder pasture 😂😂😂
hidden kindle
Didnt ion say we were gonna get some mechanical changes "in the not so distant future"? Seems it would be about time
Or get them on the ptr that is
cinder pasture
We were also gonna get changes for BFA, and pretty much all they did was nerf IP from 90% to 50%
manic perch
think they just gona roll all our warriors to DK's no need to change armor or anything 😛 free class change XD
hidden kindle
Atleast we would be op then lul
primal crypt
Take your naysayings out of here.
ember arrow
changng ip back to 90% wont achieve much
it will deplete even faster
and make warriors spikier
limber wigeon
The ip change to 50% was a buff for hard content.
azure perch
It going down to 50% is good, but kinda wished the absorb amount wasn't capped according to how much AP we've got.
serene stag
I really miss tanking as prot in M+
Just so jarring for a healer to heal a prot war compared to another spec in m+.
frosty wedge
yeah, eveyrthing feels easier on my BDK that's like 15 ilvls under my warr
chilly brook
@serene stag well tbh outside of blood DK we’re not harder to heal than other tanks
serene stag
Waiting on buffs 😄
chilly brook
That’s true but all I’m saying is we’re tied with prot pally damage intake
serene stag
Used to tank all the m+ I could last xpac, but healers bitch too much about prot warriors
chilly brook
So basically we’re just behind blood
serene stag
We might take the same as prot pally, but prot pally also has a lot more utility over us
chilly brook
Sure but that’s a different point than you were trying to make
serene stag
Sucks not having personal control like blood though.
chilly brook
@raven kernel TBF I honestly think holinka coming back is a good thing for us and other classes that are in the dumpster rn, whether it’s accurate that they’re in the dumpster or it’s a perception that’s been applied to them by the community
serene stag
🍿
Honestly though we all cheered when Holinka left
and now they're cheering when he's back.
chilly brook
Meh blood DK is blatantly broken
sand egret
eh, count me out. I like Holinka
serene stag
Honestly the WoW community is dogshit when it comes to giving stigmas to a spec.
sand egret
liked*
sand egret
bigger the community, bigger the stigma.
chilly brook
I just didn’t like Trashcan
sand egret
conceptually i loved that place
chilly brook
And the lack of content
serene stag
See Survival, basically all of Antorus it was bloody great. Was 10-15ilvls lower and it was competing with mains in mythic splits for sales.
But the community called it shite
chilly brook
I mean
chilly brook
It was a horribly designed spec
@ember arrow I haven’t even seen the nerfs
But I wouldn’t be surprised if they miss the mark
serene stag
Just sitting and waiting for the 8.1 changes to see what goes.
chilly brook
Because blizz has an aversion to reigning that spec in
chilly brook
Probably not
ember arrow
or knows wtf is the specs strengths
chilly brook
Because there is no challenge in a tank that can’t die xD
ember arrow
wah wah
ember arrow
were you the one designing the nerfs?
cuz that sentence
going from 30- 100 require some ridiculous dmg intake
like +17 trash beating on you
serene stag
But that's also the fantasy of the tank role, being a Bastion of Defense holding the line while your other party members deal the brunt of the damage, while you take the brunt of it.
chilly brook
When you’re pulling the whole island at 113 it’s not outside of the realm of possibility to take that kinda damage
And I have done that and did do that just last night
@ember arrow
chilly brook
@astral crystal what picture?
And bonestorm is crazy
It’s just a fundamentally broken spec
ember arrow
so thats what they were doing while balancing the game
chilly brook
@serene stag clearly that’s the class fantasy but I don’t think practically being able to write the healer out of the equation in a major way is a valid interpretation of that fantasy
@ember arrow I mean he wasn’t even on the team until recently he was on another project
astral crystal
i think we should all follow suit and get yoked so we can mitigate better irl
chilly brook
A good amount
ember arrow
%
50-65?
because thats how much bdk self heals for
saying they dont need healers is literal fake news
or in a major way
chilly brook
62% on taloc
azure perch
Tanked Zul M yday, 64-65% mitigation.
azure perch
Could've been way higher, but ... did some cheesy stuff.
chilly brook
And not all forms of “mitigation” if you want to start using healing as mitigation are equal
The fact that your healing scales based on damage intake is a large portion of why blood is crazy and can start pushing the healer out of the equation. They’ll still need healers to top them off but the chance of a blood DK dying because of some fault of the healer is almost null
It’s just like how monk is easier to heal than any other tank that requires the healer. They take more damage but that doesn’t mean they’re less effective. It’s not quite so black and white. If I’m sitting here on a blood DK take a thrash and say go from 100% to 20% and heal back up to say 60% in one global and thats without vampiric blood there’s a huge amount of value in that
Granted that might be exaggerated in how much damage you might take on a thrash but then you also take a look at healing logs on fetid with blood DKs doing 28k hps
dapper sky
Also because you mitigate on top of that 60% heal.
frosty wedge
^
chilly brook
^
frosty wedge
not to mention stuff like bone storm is ridiculous for m+
chilly brook
If you can’t acknowledge that blood is busted then idk what to tell you
frosty wedge
I want prot warr to have the d3 barb ability that sucks people into where you leap, lol
chilly brook
And even then, blood can practically write out a healer looking at you video of five blood DKs doing a +12
frosty wedge
haha yeah, that video is insane
there's also the like, 15 blood DKs killing normal mother
chilly brook
but Griff what about that prot pally soloing keys
Revolves around one talent that in real use has no such realistic power
Blood literally stands in the face of Blizzards intended tank design for BFA
azure perch
Yup
sand egret
the prot videos are great because he's like pulling the little minion saurids to get stacks haha
prot pally*
that shit is just funny and clever.
uneven mason
@chilly brook That's what happens when you let the spec be designed by one of the people who plays it (Skullflower)
Too bad we don't have anyone doing the same for prot warriors
like I think, the perfect compliment to warrior would be like the hulk, the harder you beat on him the more angry he gets, the stronger he gets. So, lets say, instead of a self heal, we're given a mastery that reduces the damage we take and increases our healing received and HP by a % based on the amount of damage we've taken in the last 5 seconds
would bolster our EHP, make us more "idiot friendly" while still rewarding good gameplay
and remove the RNG of critical block
frosty wedge
I feel like just giving us RPDT back would be just as effective, lol
graceful mason
if we just got a bunch of rage from being hit we're going to be using 80% of our gcd's on IP
uneven mason
^^
Now, if they made IP fire off of Revenge
😉
Revenge costs 40, causes a IP type absorb
instead of being free it procs ye olde DragonScales
frosty wedge
ip off GCD and that rage becomes useful, lol
uneven mason
🏏 💀 🐴
But not really
WHat IP off the GCD would do however
is make Devastator less of dogshit tier and more "Fake Doodoo" tier
since you'd have the GCDs to push shield slam
brazen sequoia
which has 1st prio? IP or SB?
prisma night
depends on the dmg profile
brazen sequoia
m+ in general
prisma night
physical sb
brazen sequoia
aight ty 😃
prisma night
heavy magic ip would take precedent
limber wigeon
Honestly, what I'd like to see is IP reworked into a skill that can be utilized when we have gaps in shield block, because right now IP is 3 to 4 times better with block up than without.
uneven mason
because its a multiplicative reduction
on top of our mountain of multiplicative reductions
It does its job, to be honest its the same as it was in Legion, just on the GCD and doesn't stack well
erm I mean its the same reduction as a % of our HP Pool
it just doesn't nearly completely negate small arms fire
which was the intent
If We had IP like we did in Legion, we'd be staring down the same nerf cannon BDKs are looking into right now
since it would put us on "Nearly unkillable" territory in current M+
astral crystal
ip +sblock smoothing is still really, really good
i would want to keep IP as it is right now, a complementary mitigation tool to sblock
uneven mason
I really think my idea of the scaling vs damage taken would address some of our core issues, namely - how we deal with damage outside of shield block.
chilly brook
I wouldn’t be opposed to us getting a form of vengeance back or w/e it was called
uneven mason
Nah, nothing like vengeance
chilly brook
Harder we get hit the harder we hit back/ bigger our absorbs
uneven mason
more like if we're getting trucked we just get more durable/receive bonus healing
we'd still be tied to our healers
chilly brook
Well tbh that’s a form of vengeance
uneven mason
right but without the damage part
because thats what got Veng nerfed
cheesing encounters by solo tanking them
chilly brook
I mean I think the damage would fit class fantasy :kappa
chilly brook
I’m not exactly saying it needs to be crazy numbers
uneven mason
but they're never going to let us get into one shotting trash mob territory again
I mean, scaling AP would just mean less IP casts
not better IPs
chilly brook
Clearly there was an ideal territory that they never balanced it to
uneven mason
yeah
uneven mason
but it was another knob that didn't need to be there haha
Gladiator stance was cancer
chilly brook
I want it back
uneven mason
and should be left in the garbage with the other cut out tumors
chilly brook
Excuse you
uneven mason
We have Gladiator stance
chilly brook
Reeeeeeeee
uneven mason
but without the shitpile
chilly brook
I mean I can’t fulfill a DPS roll in a raid with a sword and shield 😡
uneven mason
To quote a HDH in my raid last night "Did you swap to arms for trash"
Because Who was #1
<--- THIS GUY
SHield DPS, we got that.
chilly brook
Sure but that damage normalizes really quickly in single target
And you still have to be a tank to do it
I loved gladiator
Because it let me have a DPS off spec without much change
And the “class fantasy” was really cool
It just needed some polishing
But they never did anything with it after they nerfed it
And now we’re stuck with ravager :kek
Glad stance would be a good replacement tbh
Oh damn hold on
Could you imagine gladiator stance with unstoppable force? 😂
frosty wedge
LOL
chilly brook
Hmmmm 🤔
frosty wedge
glad stance baseline prot
chilly brook
Actually
That might be a decent “alternative” talent to UF
Or maybe replace indomitable with glad stance
tropic star
any wars tanked the thrashes on mythic fetid
chilly brook
What a worthless talent
tropic star
is 100% block possible
chilly brook
@astral crystal has iirc
Should be close to possible
You might only need one or two externals
Other than that everyone should be covered by a block or your own CD
dapper sky
I was able to by taking heavy repercussions and throwing up SB right before a thrash went off, extend it at least once and each SB covers two thrashes.
astral crystal
a bunch of us have tanked m fetid i think
it's really easy with archive
you have like 50% haste all fight
dapper sky
But no AM felt terrible.
astral crystal
sblock is up for almost every one
chilly brook
I wouldn’t ever take HR
chilly brook
Even on fetid
astral crystal
for more last stands
i only asked for bop and sac once during the fight, that's it
it's over in under 5 mins so there's little to worry about
tropic star
atticusw, is that your char name as well?
chilly brook
Hell even with 13% base haste I can have SB or some similar personal up for 95% of the fight
astral crystal
yeah
chilly brook
And he doesn’t attack faster in Mythic right?
Unfortunately still stuck on the Zek wall for now while I search for a new guild
steel mauve
Ya you can have sb up for almost every single thrash if not all of em, so taking HR is a waste since you can do it any ways
dapper sky
Yeah it might have been overkill. One SB covering two thrashes certainly gave me a much larger margin for error. On repeat kills I'll likely use AM.
sick sentinel
I've reached the haste point with 5 ITF stacks that I can do 3 SB with 0 downtime and it feels SO GOOD
sick sentinel
Having that 1 sec downtime between your second and third where you get destroyed it's so sad
I was Shockwaving for that, now I can use shockwave to interrupt abilities
chilly brook
Oddly enough I don’t ever feel like I get destroyed in that small gap
uneven mason
Depends the sort of pull you have
ALthough, I tell ya, I've been running the arathi worldboss trinket
for M+
and that initial burst of parry
feelsgood
like 40% parry pretty tasty
chilly brook
The lion tank?
uneven mason
The Lion's Charge
or whatever its called
strength
I just saw it and was like "Sure I'll givei t a go"
bored of Blockades
SO bored of blockades
Also
sick sentinel
So, pretty big
My pulls consist of intercept-heroic throw-leap back& LOS to gather them up
uneven mason
finally got a Rezan's 360 while doing a pity run for someones alt
uneven mason
first one I've seen drop - ever
here is hoping I get that 385 DC shoulders
so I can use my 385 chest
dusk locust
i've still got 340 shoulders. haven't gotten around to pvping
frosty wedge
😦
sand egret
@uneven mason I just caught your Hulk reference, but I'm into that as a concept
sand egret
mitigation scaling to recent damage intake, innately smoothing follow-up from spikes
uneven mason
while making us not just pop like a zit whenever we have a gap
sand egret
it's effectively another form of Stagger
sand egret
Stagger as a concept is manipulating the time component of damage intake
this would essentially do that in a different way
which is great because, at least for Prot, this form puts a focus on the initial damage intake
uneven mason
So its different.
I mean, if they literally just gave us a bonus to healing/Absorbs based on damage taken
it would solve a lot
sand egret
yeah, i think we do have a place in that design space
uneven mason
good prot could still shine
sand egret
in fact, there's a world where every tank has this in some form
uneven mason
bad prot wouldn't explode the instant they overlapped LS and SB and don't have anything ready
But bad prot would still require notceably more attention
sand egret
good prot in this world would be the ones blocking the highest spikes and utilizing mid-range damage to fuel the mastery.
since you'd want to keep the effect rolling to cover spikes, this is the interesting effect on gameplay
uneven mason
New MAstery X% Of blocked damage is stored and used for bonus healing after SB expires
the amount consumed from the pool is based on the % Of health missing.
sand egret
i had been toying around with a similar idea
except it was a HOt
HoT, like stagger but it's a HoT
uneven mason
I don't like a HoT or any sorto f healing that is basically US
drowsy stag
Enabling RFDT would make it a form of the stagger mechanic bc it could be used for IPs and smooth the dmg taken i.e. giving it the hulk like style. Also, if in this case, should still take IP off the GCD to smooth rotation.
uneven mason
I like a pool that healers can use to support us better.
RFDT won't fix shit
it'll just change how we FEEL to play
sand egret
the issue becomes you don't have much control over it
sand egret
and you'd have people getting /cancelaura macros to shut off their SB to trigger the heal
austere oar
Damage block is stocked and added to your next IP pool
stark sage
rfdt would change a lot in high damage intake situations as your ability to spend IP would scale with damage intake
uneven mason
That wouldn't be an issue
stark sage
instead scaling with number of targets hitting you
uneven mason
Bladesong
sweet kettle
New mastery should be while doing dmg the % of your mastery is how much you heal
uneven mason
I mean they let BDK Do that for nearly all of Legion
with the Vamp blood
to cheese the absorb
sand egret
and?
uneven mason
right
sweet kettle
So if you deal 10000 dmg you heal for 5000 if you have 50% mastery
sand egret
this ain't legion and we ain't BDKs
uneven mason
it would be another point for good prot to shine
wild sandal
just got a 370 shoulder with DC on it, im using the shoulders from uldir with archives ( 370 also) and had only my chest with DC trait on it with 340 ilvl, and i have a 385 azerite chest with some random traits from my weekly, so should i use the DC shoulders + the 340 DC chest so i get 2 DC traits, or do i use the 385 chest instead?
stark sage
you only want 1 DC trait
sand egret
^
only the thunderclap damage increase stacks, but the duration increase doesn't so 1 point is really where it's at
wild sandal
so surivial wise i use 1 DC trait and go for the higher ilvl chest?
sand egret
yes
wild sandal
alright, thanks
sand egret
use the 370 shoulders with DC and upgrade your chest and enjoy the huge ilvl increase haha
wild sandal
ye, finaly, had it for like 3 weeks in my bag, thanks
steel mauve
Ya, finally got a 370 dc shoulders from emissary, there is a wow god 🙏
sand egret
works in mysterious ways....
regal yacht
steel mauve
Mine was dunecrawler from voldun
flint prism
steel mauve
So it would be worthless since we dont have bc any more?
sand egret
I really hope in the Classic Demo they keep the spawn rates of that one defias cave in Westfall the same
chilly brook
I hope the classic demo gives you the option of having new models
🙃
@junior ivy gross
junior ivy
not gross
jaunty aspen
Trinket question ; got a 365 jes howler DM Blockades and a 370 rezan should i replace Blockades or when iss it time to replace it=?
uneven mason
replace blockades IMO
jaunty aspen
imo?`
uneven mason
You can sit on Blockades for as long as you want more or less there isn't a ton of EHP trinkets out there
jaunty aspen
iam rackin my brain as to when its time to replace it
uneven mason
but you'll have better returns from the haste on Rezan's (and it higher str for armor/IP) and the Jes Howler (On demand DR, damage, group benefit, higher str for Armor/IP)
Basically once you start surpassing Blockades in ilvl
go ahead and repalce it
jaunty aspen
thx
uneven mason
but there isn't a real hard set rule that X Trinket will beat Blockades at Y ilvl
equal ilvl it still wins for EHP
but has no 2ndary benefits
its basically a str stat stick that has a random heal/HP buff
jaunty aspen
final question should i replace a 370 azerite chest with semi good traits with a 385 shit trait chest=?
uneven mason
yes
the only trait that trumps ilvl
is DC
if you have 1 DC - use whatever else is highest ilvl in the other slots.
jaunty aspen
i got dc but the 385 has basically zero defensive traits
uneven mason
To put it another way, BFI nor IF are strong enough to be worth more than 10 item levels, thus, a ilvl jump will always trump them.
since Azerite gear comes in 15levle jumps
jaunty aspen
nice thx was brainstorming real hard before coming here as to should i equip it or not
uneven mason
yeah, prot's hard and fast rule is "Just wear ilvl after 1 DC"
and that goes for most slots
even rings/trinkets there are some wiggleroom, but its not going to be a massive difference, possibly a high haste vs no haste ring will be 5 - 10
any "Armor" slot
Ilvl will win
jaunty aspen
yeah but shoulder higher than 340 still avoids me like the plague azerite item dropping is bullshit
uneven mason
mmmhmm
was using a 340 DC item until like 2 weeks ago
got a 370 finally
hoping to get a 385 so I can stop wearing my 370 now ;D
jaunty aspen
lol
still wearing cthraxxi shoulder since first week now i have to go to hc ghuun with them
uneven mason
He's a wuss
HC Ghuun is only hard because DPS don't know how to not stand in pustules
chilly brook
@jaunty aspen any of the prot traits is worth an ilvl upgrade minus DC
jaunty aspen
harder than zul i suppose=?
uneven mason
for tanks
no
Zul and Mythrax are cancer on tanks
Ghuun is damn easy IMHO
compared
its regular damage
jaunty aspen
well nice
uneven mason
you can prepare for it and plan for it
Mythrax and Zul are like HERECOMES THE FRIEGHT TRAIN
Ghuun is counting to 5
and pressing taunt
Its everyone else thath as a shit time with him
orb runners/ball poppers/pus eaters
I had 3 < 1% wipeson HC Ghuun last week
because the DPS can't stop standing on eachother
jaunty aspen
zul phase 2 was a nightmare for me like dmg from hell
uneven mason
and bounce into pus
yeah its rough
Zul requries you and your healers to be in perfect step
or hope you ahve a lot of BRes
jaunty aspen
but pala bop saved my skin made it tankable for me
uneven mason
I do it without BoP now
4 stacks no BoP 30 ilvls makes a difference
IP eating half the 4 stack damage per cast is a big help
jaunty aspen
4stacks longer than 20 sec is impossible for me
i mean it kills me if have to wait out debuff with 4 stacks
sand egret
friggin' gnomes...
astral crystal
what friendly nameplate addonsetting is that @junior ivy
uneven mason
@jaunty aspen You don't really "Wait out" the 4 stacks, you keep meleeing him and building rage to cast IP
until you have 5 seconds or so to go
then you run it out
and either leap back, or, if pressed for time, leap out and have a healer grip you out of the pool
Since its generally the pool that'll get you killed
each tick in it is another stack of the Raid wide DoT
jaunty aspen
well yeah but the second i got away from boss for dropping the pool i died
and getting gripped out isnt an option since heasl to slow for that to manage
uneven mason
coordinate better with your healers, set up markers around the circle and be like "HEY (Healers_Name), (Your_Name) Is going to (Marker_Name) I need you near (Marker_Name) so you can Truck the shit out of me while I run this out"
Same way you do BoPs
Using your characters name is +++ btw
because healers love it when you go I EYE AYE Need healing
jaunty aspen
good idea thats basically giving the healer a manual on how to keep you alive
uneven mason
So they have to figure out who the fuck I is
Learning to survive on Zul is going so insane you refer to yourself constantly in the 3rd person.
"Mac has boss", "Mac is taking Crusher to Green", "Mac is bringing crusher in to be killed", "Mac has 4, going to Purple"
jaunty aspen
well may heals know my voice the need no name but still i have the feelling there like in bagdad fighting the taliban instead of being where i am
austere oar
^
uneven mason
well there can be al ot of crosstalk
jaunty aspen
true
uneven mason
Like, when you get 4 is the same tiem the 2nd set of fears go out
austere oar
Currently progressing on zul, just the offensive dispels calls are massive
uneven mason
and dispells need to be done and the other tank is calling for heals
you literally can make a /macro that says "(YOUR_NAME) WILL BE AT (MARKER ICON) AND NEEDS HEALS FOR 15 SECONDS"
jaunty aspen
will do that
uneven mason
Because Zul is an oddity
jaunty aspen
but still its unfair how easy blood dk tanks this
uneven mason
When the tanks first swap
the tank who JUST HAD HIM
is taking triple the damage the tank who now has him
since his bleed hurts a lot more than his melee at first
They don't tank it easy
Blood has issues on Zul too
frosty wedge
yeah absolutely, bleed tank need all the heals
uneven mason
BDK are strong because of add management
like always
but all in all I require less external healing than my BDK cotank
when I had a BDK cotank
Now I have a paladin
and we're basically to the % matched
Warriors and paladins are stupidly close
frosty wedge
I just dinged 120 on my pally last night, lol
uneven mason
same ilvl we were within 2 % Of eachother in EHRPS
its zaney
he heals a bit more
I mitigate a bit more
but its neck and neck
frosty wedge
that's wicked - pallies just also bring stuff like sac, bop, etc
frosty wedge
utility kills us everywhere
uneven mason
although I'd say Rally is a godsend on Zul and Mythrax
daring marlin
hellyeahbrother
uneven mason
Phase 2 on Zul and Myth
we cycle Rally
can get like 48 seconds uptime from the 4 warriors its fun
frosty wedge
haha that's awesome
chilly brook
WTB Inspiring Presence back plz
sand egret
uh....we already have Sense.
frosty wedge
LOL
shut summit
🙄
daring marlin
rofl
steel mauve
Lol
dark junco
Lol
fathom marten
Took it upon myself to make a thread in the warrior class section about prot wars. Provided maroks and lalas articles and my personal feelings atm.
I didn't it more for the people that visit that section, getting the correct information on what's wrong with us.
Which, I'm not a doomsayer, we are viable and I'm not a mythic raider but Ion really upset me in his last Q&A.
neon tangle
@fathom marten FWIW the issues w/ warriors are not really fixable w/ the tools they have for hotfixes
they can bump numbers, but our issue isn't really our health, or armor, etc
sand egret
hence why it won't be present in a PTR build until client stuff is deployed
chilly brook
@fathom marten what did Ion do now?
fathom marten
@neon tangle Of course, I wasn't trying to argue that. I was just stating that this "buff" was a appease to the masses move. Frankly, I think it says a lot about how they think of us. Like we are so dimwitted to think that this hotfix is something significant.
@chilly brook Bro I don't normally jump on the, Ion is the devil bandwagon.
chilly brook
Well they never said it was significant
neon tangle
5% EHP is arguably not a bad buff, and they have been pretty straightforward in saying that they are stuck tuning numbers for now w/ bigger changes in 8.1
fathom marten
Now what really made me personally upset was the fact of Ion in his recent Q&A talking about BM tanking. He was talking about the punishing affects between using ISB vs Pur if used non-optimally. We all know BM's are doing great right now, especially in Uldir. I've stated this before but it was like Ion literally was ignoring the biggest, loudest, strangely colored elephant in the room. It's absolutely night and day between the punishment of playing SB right as a protection warrior and using ISB and Pur as a BM (My alt--almost my main at this point--is a BM, the difference is truly that great).
chilly brook
They said it’s something while we wait for the more substantial tuning
fathom marten
It was like a week in a half back or two weeks
chilly brook
If he said anything about how BrM is punished for lack of use of isb/pb then lawl
fathom marten
Can't remember but ion boradly describes his vision of tanking and it's not that I don't like her vision per say, its his rather terrible example.
sand egret
so did you take offence that he he alluded to the fact they were similar and you disagree?
fathom marten
@chilly brook They haven't said anything since the last blue post and no ptr changes.
sand egret
or was it how he articulated the point?
chilly brook
We’re a good ways off from 8.1 hitting live @fathom marten
sand egret
like a few weeks imhjo
fathom marten
It was the fact he completely avoided prot war punishing effects because he knows that's a problem.
sand egret
i mean, yeah but everyone knows it is
chilly brook
They’ve addressed that it has issues
neon tangle
@fathom marten Maybe we watched different Q&As? I don't remember anything about brew being punishing... and he specifically called out prot as needing buffs
fathom marten
It was very contrived imo. Again, I'm not a doom sayer and I don't hate Ion but this was just like a middle finger to me imo
It was within this month.
chilly brook
They’re just not giving specifics yet
sand egret
he was referring to The Fetid Log post, in that Q&A directly
chilly brook
Understandably
sand egret
don't take not talking about something to be we don't think it's a thing
sounds like they wanted to get in front of that post in particular
fathom marten
@chilly brook If there's a change to prot war, It seems like it should be implemented as soon as they can for testing. If you were around during PTR before bfa drop, it was very clear they were not sure what to do and then really avoided specific feedback.
sand egret
Thrav, i'm not sure you're aware about how dev works
but they've literally not had a single workday since the feedback thread went up, something I'd imagine you'd wait for
as it went up on Friday and it is Monday
so today is probably a lot of planning meetings
so i'd give it a week or two before major client work hits
as they'd have to build/iterate/test internally before it even makes it to PTR
fathom marten
There wasn't any real prot war class changes for prot war at the start of the ptr. That's my point.
sand egret
you're missing mine
chilly brook
While I don’t disagree that the sooner the changes go up the better I also don’t take the fact that they haven’t produced anything that there isn’t anything coming
fathom marten
And the problems have been here since before bfa release
sand egret
there aren't because there aren't any haha
they haven't been put up yet
the ones on the ptr are for the most part server-side changes
neon tangle
I think it's pretty safe to assume that they are working on it, and haven't found something they're ready to release yet
chilly brook
^