But nothing from him attack you
#protection
oblique garnet
intercept + demo shout
strong forum
š¤¦
Because that's enough on 13s
Not saying I can't get past him, it's just frustrating
chrome falcon
to be fair
every tank gets fucked by zul
some not as hard as others
but he's brutal for everyone
strong forum
Prot the most cuz we midigate nothingcbut with IP and SW and heal very little
chrome falcon
and DS
which should have pretty much 100% uptime on him unless your dps sucks
and SR
strong forum
Bdk gets full value of his self sustain, we are cucked out of our main midigation
chrome falcon
so are paladins and druids
amber siren
I mean, spellwarding negates it for like what? 8 seconds?
chilly brook
We could really benefit from rage from magic
chilly brook
And Zul does destroy pretty much every tank except for blood
But it would actually help us
If we got rage from non auto attack damage
quiet kettle
actually help, yes. be fun, yes. which means it will never happen
blizzard is the fun police
strong forum
Also let us block "shoot" kthxbye
chilly brook
^^
quiet kettle
yay for physical spells
oblique garnet
So for now we want Ranged block, rage from magic and IP off GCD?
quiet kettle
tbh i dont take prot into m+
strong forum
So retarded to just take 100k hits every 3 sec from 1 ranged add
uneven mason
SPellwarding does nothing vs Zul's bleed
its Physical damage
AMS does nothing as well
strong forum
This
uneven mason
we actually have a very strong kit for Zul
but we have a VERY SMALL
HP Pool compared to the damage
oblique garnet
We were talking about prophet of zul
uneven mason
Oh
oblique garnet
Not Zul the boss
uneven mason
Prophet
strong forum
I don't take prots into m+ as well, just me
oblique garnet
Shadow of ZUl whatever
uneven mason
yeah fuck that guy on fort weeks
uneven mason
I don't do KR on any fort week above a 7
quiet kettle
ppl say prot wars have shit hp, but thats really not the case
vocal nimbus
Afaik raging fortified doesnt happen
vocal nimbus
Wasnt it tyrannical
strong forum
Pretty sure it was fort
strong forum
Mh.
quiet kettle
but with m+ having seasons now
vocal nimbus
Went to check and its tyrannical raging
quiet kettle
i wouldnt be surprised to see affix lineups get changed each season
strong forum
Aight
quiet kettle
we have raging fort in legion which had some really bad moments
iirc we even had bolstering raging fort as a weekly lineup
which was interesting
sand egret
Raging Fort would be a wonderful week to take a vacation š
sand egret
the real answer?
oblique garnet
you just suck
sand egret
^
mint kite
Shit
oblique garnet
^
sand egret
we'll help you out as it's easily fixable
mint kite
Drop some logs?
sand egret
warcraftlogs
so we can see what you're doing to help, as at least from what I've seen, there are a few common mistakes that can easily be corrected
chilly brook
@oblique garnet hereās what I would want: ability to block ranged attacks, higher volume on IP, t21 4 piece baseline, rage from magic damage taken
sand egret
remind me what the t21 4 piece was
chilly brook
IP gets more volume with each block
sand egret
oh, that's an azerite trait if anything but regardless that does sound nice
chilly brook
It was great after pre-patch
mint kite
Ok, iāll figure out how to do warcraft logs when i get home and send them over here or you can add me
sand egret
i'd rather not have yet another reason i need to pick UF + AM + BV
mint kite
Mythic plus mainly
Iāve been making up by using flasks and potions, i constantly use health potions as like an extra healthstone, and iāve macroed a strength potion with avatar
sand egret
hmm, that'll be harder to get logs but some helpful tips:
- Don't overlap Shield Block
- Run "The Build" (Check the Pins/Icy-VeinsGuide)
- Use. Your. Cooldowns. We're a proactive tank. You need to anticipate damage and not react to it
- Proper use of your Avatar rotation
chilly brook
There are so many questions to ask you
As far as trying to figure out whatās going on
sand egret
think of Prot as Batman and BDK as Superman
both can be superheroes, but each approaches combat different
royal oasis
Gotta make use of that utility belt
sand egret
hell yeah
mint kite
Avatar rotation? Does that mean i have to change my main rotation during avatar? I thunder clap every other cd but itās whatās in between those thunder claps is what iām confused about
sand egret
ook that's good
royal oasis
Yeah that's the basic part
chilly brook
TC>ability>TC>ability
mint kite
And sometimes depending on the healer iām either super smooth or or super rubber bandy
sand egret
a common mistake is not prioritizing TC
royal oasis
If you're taking alot of damage spent the rage on IP making sure not to overlap
mint kite
Ok
sand egret
but keeping up SB and buffering downtime with cooldowns is where you'll see your damage intake get smooother
mint kite
Donāt overlap any mitigations at all? Or is it certain ones?
sand egret
DC = all the time
chilly brook
Avatar priority: TC>SS>Revenge with proc or if you need to spend Rage and have the ability to do so offensively>Devastate
royal oasis
Sorry overright
sand egret
Last Stand (with Bolster) DON'T use Shield Block
royal oasis
Don't want to spam IP
sand egret
it's main use is giving you 15 seconds of recharge
mint kite
Ok
sand egret
IP you want to have active, but don't spam it.
royal oasis
You're running DC yes?
tropic star
there are 2 weak aurans in the pinds that are incredibly useful
chilly brook
Ideally you should be using IP as much as possible without wasting it if that makes sense
tropic star
one will show you remainnig time on Shield block, and whne you have bolster talent (which you should) it also shows the last stand timer so you know not to overlab
mint kite
I have all my mitigations in weak auras, and i understand that ip caps
royal oasis
Okay good
sand egret
š
tropic star
also and IP WA that shows current values and is color coded to tell you if you will get ful IP or partial or if you are capped
chilly brook
If your IP absorbs 39k and the next opportunity you have to use it youāre at 30k you shouldnāt use it again
royal oasis
The biggest most important thing is keeping your SB rolling as much as possible
mint kite
Things are getting pretty confusing, iām sure itās like one thing thatās fucking me up, so you guys will see that in the warcraft log
royal oasis
You know how to run logs?
mint kite
No
royal oasis
Download the log software first of all
tropic star
have you done any uldir with you guild? and do you know if anyone there runs logs
royal oasis
Off Warcraftlogs
chilly brook
If youāre not using your regular defensive cooldowns in Shield Block window gaps then thatās probably a huge part of it
sand egret
first guess is prob SB uptime
royal oasis
Ye
sand egret
second is prob not liberal enough usage of CDs
mint kite
Yeah iām 6/8 normal and iāve been trying to run heroics but irl is never on my side
chilly brook
@mint kite sorry that itās confusing but we donāt have much to run on rn we just have to guess
tropic star
character name and realm? someone may have postsed some
steep lily
Can fetid's thrash be parried?
mint kite
I think lām on my off spec right now
royal oasis
You have a few logs
mint kite
Ok
tropic star
another big one is getting a peice of armor with deafening crash trait
mint kite
Shield block up time i think iām confused on that, i hear it all the time and convonce myself that i understand but iām pretty sure i dont
Ok
chilly brook
Sweet you have a fetid log
sand egret
just means having it active
chilly brook
And youāre main tanking
royal oasis
So you main tanked fetid
chilly brook
This should help a lot
royal oasis
19% on sb
sand egret
take it away, boys
royal oasis
You're also running indomitable
chilly brook
Right off the bat
royal oasis
Not optimal but not wholly terrible
sand egret
oof
royal oasis
Bolster is wy way way better
royal oasis
He doesn't have dc
oblique garnet
Found your issues quite fast š
royal oasis
Your azerite traits aren't the best, really
Bloodsport doesn't even help on fetis
Fetks
FETID that one
chilly brook
You used last stand and shield wall so thatās good
Should look to see if you overlapped anything with them tho
royal oasis
Ip casts aren't bad either
blissful hazel
So i just got a 370 7th Legion helm, is the PvP last gift trait any good for tanking?
mint kite
Ok, iām pretty sure i did
blissful hazel
seems passable, but don't know how often it goes off
chilly brook
You seem a little heavy on Devastate casts
naive dawn
How is prot doing nowadays? I keep hearing how bad itās supposed to be, but their kit seems like it can be pretty good.
royal oasis
You filled your SB gaps with ignore pain which is good
sand egret
@blissful hazel not really, esp not compared to the spec ones you are missing out on
royal oasis
But your sb spacing needs work
mint kite
Ok
chilly brook
@naive dawn weāre on par with Paladin and behind DK and monk in raids
royal oasis
How are you tracking sb
chilly brook
Ahead of Druid and DH
blissful hazel
yeah i figured as much
royal oasis
Since you're actively tanking you should shoot for as much uptime as posaible
No prob
sand egret
gl mate
royal oasis
Here to help
chilly brook
Glad to help
sand egret
remember to pace yourself while tanking. panic is when a tank dies š
hits SB during LS
sees death in 12 seconds
chilly brook
My guild might have labeled me an elitist but I truly just want to see the best from everyone because I believe theyāre capable of it
royal oasis
Being a good prot is rarer than it should be
sand egret
it's all about presentation of feedback š
royal oasis
The amount of times I've seen logs of people spamming devastate, no IPs and silly talents is disheartening
chilly brook
@sand egret youāre not wrong but I also donāt think raid night is the time you should be fixing your problems
sand egret
also not wrong
chilly brook
Which apparently is a problematic view to hold
sand egret
unless your problems are in the raid itself
which then I dunno how you'd practice outside of the raid haha
royal oasis
Lfr baby
sand egret
mechanically limited option, true
royal oasis
Best metric for performance :^)
chilly brook
Lol
Funny thing was I never actually brought up anyoneās logs Iād just say itās unacceptable to be stepping in clouds on Zek
And there were people who would actually flame people for their logs
But I was the āelitistā
sand egret
different guilds different standards I guess ĀÆ_(ć)_/ĀÆ
chilly brook
I guess so
sand egret
ive been in both camps
so it's just the culture of the guild, imho. If that doesn't jive, then maybe it isn't the best fit? After all, it's still your time being spent in a raid
chilly brook
I mean Iām no longer in it
solid mist
man. "don't stand in fire" is elitist now?
chilly brook
Got kicked for refusing to tank a mandatory heroic on our Mythic night when weāve only done one night of Mythic the last two weeks
GM couldnāt make it last night (co-tank) so he said it was mandatory heroic when we had a backup tank and trials that we could have thrown in the DPS slot
tropic star
question for you all on mythic Zekvoss
chilly brook
Yes
steep lily
Just starting up m fetid progression. Something I've never noticed is whether thrash could be parried. Trying to decide if I should try to drop some crit before starting up.
chilly brook
It canāt be afaik
But unless you have gear or the same ilvl itās not worth swapping gear
royal oasis
I RL for my guild and I've had people quit becuase I call them out when they mess up easy mechanics constantly....apparently everyone needs to be coddled
tropic star
demo should up time is prry crap for me on that one. my general plan of action in that fight is to demo/Avatar when i pick him up so i can afford to keep IP/SB up through tanking. Then when the combo comes i Laststand/IP/Demoshout again so i can IP for each hit of the combo. SR on the 2nd lash
sand egret
@chilly brook oof well, that doesn't sound great. "mandatory" stuff always rubbed me the wrong way haha
tropic star
Demo shout comes up again while im not tanking but i hold it to pair with avatar again when i swap in
sand egret
get yourself a guild that has players who'll remove themselves if they feel like their game is off.
chilly brook
@tropic star tbh if adds are coming up Iād use Demo/avatar on the adds
sand egret
#UnicornsOfWoW
chilly brook
@sand egret thatās gonna be a long hard search
royal oasis
@tropic star you're talking about the tank combo yeah?
sand egret
I'm still lookin!
tropic star
yeah tank combo
shut summit
@steep lily dont believe so wrt parry
royal oasis
So the way I deal with it, and I have this up every rotation
tropic star
I was tanking 2nd fir first weeks which was great because adds came when i picked up the boss and could stomp the yard
chilly brook
If you LS on each combo you should be fine to IP first hit just block second and IP/SR third
tropic star
but weve been through 3 tanks? and they were spikey during the Dance/Tank combo
royal oasis
I last stand about 3 seconds before the combo starts, then IP demo the first lash
Then IP again then IP spell reflect the last
You time demo right it should give you enough rage to pull off 3 IPs
chilly brook
In general it shouldnāt matter all that much because you shouldnāt really ever be in danger of dying to combo as prot
royal oasis
That too
mint kite
Wait so deafening crash is a must right? Even if the only one i have is maybe a 325 piece?
royal oasis
Unless you don't have SB up for shatter
chilly brook
We deal with it better than most tanks
tropic star
The combo during Dance is the only one where i dip
royal oasis
Then goodnight xD
shut summit
@mint kite ye
tropic star
healers running around with eye beams
royal oasis
Save shield wall for it of you must
mint kite
Ok
chilly brook
@mint kite let me put it this way
tropic star
yeah. Avatar with the Tclap talent
chilly brook
Reeeeeeee
royal oasis
Charge revenge to have no rage :)
solid mist
nah. walk up tot he boss and devestate. caue if you charge, it wastes a GCD and messes that devstate timing up </reddit>
tropic star
lol even better
chilly brook
Just Devastate because that deep wounds uptime is important š
royal oasis
The deeper the wounds the more your devastate does
chilly brook
Lol
sonic pilot
Just tank the boss and don't die.
sand egret
wow 97%
sonic pilot
4head
sand egret
no wonder Prot gets a bad rep
chilly brook
You right
sand egret
Griff just holdin us back
sand egret
98% or quit
royal oasis
Bet you don't even tank with a shield
sand egret
thought you were Elite
chilly brook
Iāve already been castrated by my old guild, just finish the job
sand egret
shit is unacceptable
chilly brook
Oof
royal oasis
Can only ignore 50% of it
sick sentinel
LOL
chilly brook
Funny thing is they already have roster issues and I had several people who are the better players whisper me after the fact and say theyāre done with that guild after that went down
royal oasis
Least you made your last stand with pride, Griff
chilly brook
Always
sand egret
truf. Don't let all the Demoralizing Shouts get you down.
royal oasis
Or devastate you too much
sand egret
Bolster that confidence!
royal oasis
You'll get your revenge one day
sick sentinel
Wait griff what happened?
royal oasis
Viking funeral
chilly brook
To what?
sand egret
he was forced to race change
sick sentinel
I know you were benched for ghuun but are you benched for life now?
chilly brook
Nah I was never benched
royal oasis
We bench ourselves
chilly brook
My gāhuun kill thatās logged was a pug lol
royal oasis
You get any mythic prog Griff?
sick sentinel
"Castrated by my guild"
sand egret
"One does not truly master Prot, until one learns to block themselves." - Abraham Lincoln with a Shield
chilly brook
But what happened was repeated failures of leadership and getting nothing in return for dedicating extra time or effort into the guild finally gave me the attitude of āno one will help you but yourselfā and so I refused to do a mandatory heroic when we were only missing one person for Mythic and we missed two Mythic nights already the last two weeks
And the raid average ilvl was 371 mind you
@royal oasis yea Iām 2/8 with several wipes on Zek because people couldnāt be bothered to follow mechanics
sick sentinel
Maybe they wanted to do that HC to increase the raids average ilvl
chilly brook
Maybe but it was also a scheduled Mythic, and we had someone who could have filled that slot
royal oasis
Ah gotcha. We got Vectis to 14% last night so that'll be next week....but yeah Zekvoz was a chore
sick sentinel
Then why didn't you fill it š¤
chilly brook
And the only real way to increase that ilvl would be TFās and for the small amount of people that could have used heroic they honestly could have pugged it
Itās less than 5 people
sick sentinel
True
royal oasis
Only other argument is more azerite for off pieces or whatever
chilly brook
Their reasoning is because they had 3 people to trial
chilly brook
But Iāve not been in a Mythic raiding guild that would rather trial someone in heroic than Mythic
My first time tanking Mythic I was thrown straight into coven
On trial
royal oasis
Coven was at least not too bad a tank fight xD
chilly brook
Should have stayed with that guild tbh
sick sentinel
Well trialing on HC as a mythic raiding team sounds stupid
royal oasis
Just be like me and take over RL after your current one goes nuclear
royal oasis
Then somehow get mythic Argus down a week before prepatxh :D
I enjoyed archimode prog more than Argus.... blah
chilly brook
Plus none of the leadership liked me because apparently being the one to vocalize things that need to be fixed is bad
royal oasis
Trust me my GM tells me the same thing
Just whisper them don't call them out
Look they stood in roiling 5 times
royal oasis
You challenged the authority
chilly brook
I was only ever spoken to by leadership once
And that was in legion
And it was over something that I actually didnāt mean to do and fixed
TBH Iām pretty sure itās because I pissed the inner circle off because I told one of their friends that they could do heroic themselves if they really needed it instead of whining that the entire group decided not to do it when we couldnāt do Mythic because we were missing two people
junior ivy
i have a new co tank in my guild raids now š¦
sand egret
is it another gnome? I heard you can stack them together to make a single human
chilly brook
Seems like the turn over is pretty high this expansion
junior ivy
neither are gnomes
sand egret
it's also early in the expac, so guilds formed to down shit and wanted to fill rosters
OR just be on that PuGLyfe like me
royal oasis
Surprisingly (knock on wood) not much turnover in our guild
sand egret
guildless and proud šŖ
wild atlas
Does anyone have reliable data on Impassive Visage vs Resounding protection? I am not able to stack either, so they're standalone
sand egret
ohh hit em with that IV image
sick sentinel
I am currently recruiting for my guild because we went from having a 30 man roster and more people than wanted to come to the raid but we had no space to 17-18 people ( and like 12 people showed up for wednesday's raid)
wait I got it
@wild atlas this is 1xIV, 1xRP and 1xGemhide
merry cave
Our guild has always been rather solid but in BFA out turnover is ridiculous
It's worse than wod atm
sick sentinel
this was manor +8 yesterday
wild atlas
Context tho. Was this 2 Impassives? Or one IV vs one RP
sand egret
I ā¤ visage
fickle urchin
ember arrow
Ok
astral crystal
very cool, kanye
royal oasis
Too much utility
dreamy owl
Hey guys is there a weak auras for spell reflect in BFA? Like when to use it
versed whale
...
oblique wolf
short answer. No
longer answer. are you looking for a weak aura to tell you when you would otherwise die if spell reflect isn't used? are you looking for a popup when an actually reflectable spell is being cast?
steel mauve
You can make one but that would be a fuck ton of effort to do so
oblique wolf
yeah, you would need a database of how much damage each spell from each mob does. and one of whether spells are reflectable or not
steel mauve
You would need to go through and figure out every single spell you can/want to spell reflect, then you need to make a weakaura for every one of em and have a bar/icon/sound effect pop up when it is being cast, and probably put them all in a group together
Not even worth it, just memorize what spells need reflected
sick sentinel
got 2 visage, 1 resounding in my current gear right now.
viral pollen
Is there any word on 8.1 changes yet
digital arrow
@sand egret no guild? Having to pug everything is a pain man, I've been there
fickle urchin
you in the US cat?
junior ivy
canada
fickle urchin
same thing in this context. Does that mean we get that emisary tmr in the EU?
wonder if they are synced. I mean, m+ affixes are.
emisarys might be too
fickle urchin
think its neither?
oblique garnet
its their own
plain ice
raid azerite doesn't have DC
fickle urchin
think its world quest blues, upped to 370
junior ivy
sooo
royal oasis
I got a 370 DC from emissary
junior ivy
are there DC shoulders?
plain ice
yes
junior ivy
omg
fickle urchin
harbormaster pauldrons
plain ice
each emissary has a few potential azerite pieces you can get
it depends on the faction
oblique garnet
i have already given up on hope of ever getting 370 shoulders with DC
plain ice
you can look them up
junior ivy
dunno where to find them
fickle urchin
nope
i mean, the 12 includes both horde and alliance
duplicates of same item, basically
sand egret
@digital arrow yep! but it's 100% by choice though haha
digital arrow
Well if u can do it then there's hope for me lol
mossy ember
Is this set of statistics a useful comment on the current state of prot? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19/#class=Tanks&difficulty=4&metric=deaths
midnight ferry
"Through talents, the spec does have capacity to demonstrate above average burst AoE in raids and Mythic+. However this takes 4 GCDās to set up, feels cumbersome to use and goes against the āget up and goā flow of the spec."
WTF is this
opps wrong channel
junior ivy
IM SO MAD I WILL NEVET GET DC SHOULDERS
mossy ember
Is this set of statistics a useful comment on the current state of prot? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19/#class=Tanks&difficulty=4&metric=deaths
dusk locust
not really. prot you have to learn the encounter first to survive b/c they're proactive
other tanks can be surprised by damage and are fine
mossy ember
So this is due to strong players not playing prot
viral pollen
Not really
dusk locust
i think it's mostly due to the fact that prot has to progress boss fights
viral pollen
Itās due to prot tanks having the most trouble the first couple pulls probably.
mossy ember
Good call too
dusk locust
on blood you just heal whatever it is
viral pollen
Then Once we figure out flow of damage and cD where fine
mossy ember
Thank you !
chilly brook
Lololol
mossy ember
Considering taking the guilds temp tank slot to help. Was wondering about guardian or prot
I know I am lucky to have the 2 most fun specs
viral pollen
I think prots in a better spot.
dusk locust
prot is fun to play imo
chilly brook
So someone from my old guild sent me a pm and was apologizing for how everything went down and was like āit wonāt be like that in the futureā
dusk locust
it has a learning curve though be ready to feel terrible if you've never tried it before
chilly brook
What a bunch of good that does me š
mossy ember
@viral pollen yeah itās much more fun than bear
viral pollen
Hitting a spot during pulls where you know you just mitigated all the damage properly feels great
And having a lot of defensive CDs feels nice.
Itās just in some fights youāll have a lot more trouble
chilly brook
@mossy ember prot is in a decent spot tbh weāre tied with Paladin as the best tanks that arenāt DKs or Monks for obvious reasons
dusk locust
properly mitigating things like the zekvoz combo and your health doesn't move much feels super good
i had #1 healing parse on that for a bit lol
mossy ember
Thank you
chilly brook
If youāre needing help learning how to properly play it let me or anyone else in here know there are tons of resources
viral pollen
I could be wrong but I think prots problem is mostly in fights with unblockable damage. Zul, vectis. Stuff like that is where I struggle heavily atleast.
oblique garnet
its god damn rocks
viral pollen
But Vectis is manageable even in mythic and Zul thereās always the suicide stray.
sand egret
and Wrenches
viral pollen
Strat*
sand egret
lets not forget their metallic bretheren
dusk locust
vectis took me a couple pulls to get used to but i have a groove for it now
viral pollen
I basically just pool rage for the 2 stack and donāt worry about blocking as much.
dusk locust
i raid lead it so i'm counting contagions, tracking debuff stacks, gotta move him out at the right time.. def one of the more complicated ones for me
chilly brook
SB icon is blocking arrows
viral pollen
I donāt know if thatās correct though.
dusk locust
yeah same
chilly brook
We canāt block arrows š¤
sand egret
just rocks with sticks in em
dusk locust
i exclusively block with 0 stacks, 1 stack i kinda do a bit of blocking and ip, 2 stacks exclusively ip b/c of course the other tank has it
chilly brook
oblique garnet
Where as arms/fury have multiple
viral pollen
Yeah thatās exactly how I do it Kauda.
heady citrus
so 340 shoulders with DC or 370 shoulders with bloodsport...
dusk locust
we just started fetid prog last night. haven't gotten him under 50% yet but so far this feels perfectly doable (i'm taking the thrashes)
viral pollen
Really? I always request to tank fetid.
I feel much more comfortable on the boss.
I havenāt donāt mythic fetid though. Could be different.
Done*
dusk locust
the thrashes aren't so bad
maybe when he enrages i dunno yet
but my co-tank is a bdk so i off-tank b/c it's easier for me to catch up to him than him to me
fierce juniper
Our Community Feedback thread on /r/wow is now live! With patch 8.1 around the corner, we've written an article for each spec outlining our thoughts on their current state and some feedback. Please go give them a read and let us know what you think.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9plqiq/patch_81_warrior_community_feedback_megathread/
oblique garnet
Where is the #BlockTheRock Marok?!
dusk locust
yeah
solid mist
ok
signal plover
I'm tanking boss for fetid prog, couple gaps need externals but so far so good
solid mist
calling out the shield block icon literally blocking arrows is :chefskiss:
viral pollen
Key to fetid gaps for me atleast on heroic was making sure I didnāt waste SB on his animations.
He has a lot of them.
signal plover
Now if only melee could stop bowling balling each other with debuffs :)
dusk locust
yeah i'm starting to learn those
viral pollen
And once you get thebfeel for them I could keep 100% on heroic with SB and bolster.
signal plover
The timing is different on mythic
dusk locust
man melee is so bad on that encounter
viral pollen
Gotcha.
signal plover
Cuz it depends on how quick your DPS kill blobs
Concept remains tho
U wanna make sure SB is up for actual melees, not for his run to a globule and then a breath
Which for our wipes so far, changed wildly pull to pull as do figured out movement
dusk locust
there are some points where he goes to eat an egg, then he runs back to the tanks briefly... then goes to eat another egg or whatever. hard sometimes to tell if there's a thrash or not
signal plover
Ya I was using SW during the add spawn and wasting about 6 seconds of it while he fucked off to an egg
dusk locust
yep
signal plover
So I decided to risk not using it and then the DPS figured their shit out and he never left
So I got trucked
dusk locust
here he comes, i have no SB... shield wall out of panic, then he runs off somewhere
zinc mauve
just save SB for when hes casting thrash
thrash has a 1 second cast timer
you got plenty of time to react
zinc mauve
who me?
dusk locust
paw
zinc mauve
i was about to say, my guild too small to do mythic
dusk locust
trouble with thrash is that you don't have sb for 100% of them (or maybe my haste is trash)
dusk locust
lol
signal plover
We got Vectis last pull Tuesday
dusk locust
yeah we're 18 pulls in, had the last 2 hours of last night to it
nice
we totally regressed on zek for god only knows what reason
but did good on vectis
for the reclear
dusk locust
i tell you what this is going to be tough to get on a 2 night schedule
signal plover
Ya 6 hours per week for prog on myth/Ghuun isn't looking promising
We've got decent rogue alts so not too worried about Zul
signal plover
Ya
signal plover
Depends on raiders. I think most support extending in the final few weeks
dusk locust
another 5 people are angry that they aren't getting more gear
viral pollen
Good write up. Pretty much nitriles what Iāve been thinking and adds stuff I never would have thought of.
limber wigeon
How many pulls did vectis take for you guys? We killed zek last night. Our healing team is pretty solid, for what it's worth.
signal plover
Ya about the same. 1. Have healers setup a step by step CD breakdown (there a solid healer guide on YT). 2. Make sure ppl ad swap. 3. Fuckin soak pools in intermissions :)
We also didn't use a WA or anything other than boss mods for stack management and it worked out fine.
dusk locust
yeah we used a weakaura that helps people compare their stacks to others in their group
and i called out every contagion and kept reminding people to check their stacks
signal plover
There's also a super obnoxious but awesome WA on wago that blares at ppl at/above 6 stacks
lusty grotto
holy fuck i was expecting something worse but these are actually good comments on reddit
inb4 the masses start commenting
mellow bridge
Can you gimme the link?
signal plover
Good article as always lads.
I hadn't thought of AM as a mastery but that sounds š
sand egret
cough make it a product of Rage as a resource š
signal plover
Product...ain't no one got time for math
sand egret
well just saying AM is literally the 100 talent of every warrior spec. Making it a factor of Rage as a resource would further define it as such. Knock-on effect I'm also alluding too is this would also apply to bears
dusk locust
i enjoy opportunities where i get to protect allies from damage rather than just myself
sand egret
also a strong class fantasy of the prot warrior
mild echo
good reddit post, Marok
sand egret
see: intervene
dusk locust
i used to use safeguard constantly in legion
sand egret
dope post, but he forgot my hastag....so minus points!
jagged bay
wouldnt be am as mastery a bit too op?
mystic latch
Dragon soul set bonus was dope, giving tanks a raid wide cd
neon tangle
you know i saw someone suggest that ip should be baked in to revenge
jagged bay
maybe we could get like a single grip like dks have i mean the warrior in island expiditons has one too š¤
dusk locust
i don't want to just have the same kit as someone else i want something unique
protecting allies could be that thing
mass spell reflect, or blocking gunshots that target random players, etc
dusk locust
maybe we could be the discipline of tanks š
helping the healer but also providing tanking
neat seal
i just discovered i got BiS azerites for prot warrior, feelsbadman
young harbor
wonder if giving revenge a leech component would be like a warrior bonestorm š¤
sand egret
I'll sure as hell pretend it was
young harbor
its the day of dreaming, right
sick sentinel
if you are horde EU you can do the emissary for a chance of 370 DC shoulders
I think it is like 1/6 chance
neat seal
thats good isnt it?
vocal nimbus
certainly
young harbor
you are a lucky duck
sick sentinel
I got that chest piece too last week
Using for arms set.
Cthraxx solid bis DC shoulder for prot though.
zinc mauve
@lusty grotto its mostly because warriors got the first posts, the redditors read them and are like 'oh shit maybe the circlejerk is wrong...' and dont post
sick sentinel
who is your best prot warrior
hot locust
how long until a Krom post xd
sick sentinel
no but rly
sick sentinel
lala help
hot locust
who are you to ask who is best?
sick sentinel
simc dev
lusty grotto
are you a simc
sick sentinel
ofc
lusty grotto
o ok
vocal nimbus
which simc are you?
lusty grotto
should probably talk to Marok
hot locust
oof
lusty grotto
hm
hot locust
@fierce juniper try being a big dumb next time
final mist
š¤
neat seal
Outside of Avatar and spamming TC do you guys struggle with aggro?
final mist
Nope.
mellow bridge
Nope
neat seal
Do you feel squishy?
mellow bridge
Depends on what is hitting me
Shadow of Zul hurts, rocks hurt
Blockable shit doesnt move my hp bar a lot
lusty grotto
nope no problems with threat
sick sentinel
What's your ilvl
sick sentinel
Aggro on any tank is arguably the hardest to learn as a dps main
lusty grotto
yea
sick sentinel
But you aren't
mellow bridge
Aggro as a Warrior is really easy
sick sentinel
It's just a hard concept
Aggro as brm seems easy but sometimes in mythic I lose it
neat seal
I will mainly use prot for m+ tanking btw
steel mauve
I have to hold off our brm so i dont pull threat
Its really easy for me to pull off him
sick sentinel
Oof
vocal nimbus
brms damage is the most plain thing i have ever experienced
vocal nimbus
if brms damage intake is smooth, its dps output is even smoother
merry cave
Well posted in that Reddit thread, now to wait for terrible 400io wars of reddit to vote me down
sick sentinel
so what exactly is wrong about the apl
lusty grotto
oh, who are you again? i downvoted everybody
lusty grotto
š¢ šµ š
solid condor
are there any changes to prot on ptr atm
neon tangle
one azerite trait
mild echo
there's a new azerite trait, but nothing else yet
limber wigeon
I startedI on done of the simc stuff last night. Pretty much just learning general architecture right now though. Should get something functional by the end of the weekend. @sick sentinel if you want any help
earnest zinc
I just want to play prot without being a burden to my raid or m+ group
limber wigeon
Yeah, tough without working bolster though
sick sentinel
how many seconds do you hold demoralizing shout off for avatar cd
earnest zinc
Raids its doable, but it's way harder to get the results you need in just heroic
sick sentinel
like 5?
lusty grotto
the f
lusty grotto
we have plenty of prots here in Mythic
earnest zinc
M+ warrior is straight up dogshit
dusk locust
not at all
lusty grotto
if you're bad yeah
earnest zinc
Raids we work, but it's harder than it needs to be as the player compared to other tanks
dusk locust
it doesn't even suck
lusty grotto
it's that time of the day again guys
earnest zinc
The output in M+ is garbage
dusk locust
that's a matter of personal opinion though
sick sentinel
sure lol
lusty grotto
@earnest zinc must be trolling
open bluff
take IP off the GCD, reduce its rage cost by ten, make shield block cost 20 rage
lusty grotto
sick sentinel
raise ur hand if u think ip gcd is a good idea
open bluff
would fix a lot of prot's "issues"
lusty grotto
non gcd ip is still trash
earnest zinc
Look at the representation
lusty grotto
remember it doesn't absorb 90% of damage any more
lusty grotto
representation means absolutely nothing
earnest zinc
That almost certainly means prot is bad
dusk locust
it's not about the % it's about the total amount
sick sentinel
no it doesn't
lusty grotto
yeah def trolling
sick sentinel
it means people are playing easier classes
like brm
where you don't have to ironbrew to kill heroic bosses :)))
lusty grotto
ā
earnest zinc
If prot was good, it would have decent representation. At that level, people play to close to the max potential
sick sentinel
no
sick sentinel
prot being less easy means that the representation is more saturated with skilled players
open bluff
so speaking of prot, is last gift any good at all?
other option's callous reprisal so
lusty grotto
hmm
earnest zinc
The good news is that it's not a problem in M+ for just gearing
dusk locust
unskilled players don't know that it's the hard spec
earnest zinc
It's a major problem when you go to around 15 and up
lusty grotto
use callous reprisal @open bluff
burnt fossil
they should turn Ignore Pain into prots mastery. Build up IP by spending rage passively
oblique garnet
if you go around +15 the problem isnt dying its about not bringing the same utility as dk / dh have
lusty grotto
that sounds ridiculous
zinc mauve
also @open bluff ,i dont think reducing the rage cost of SB would help much. We already generate a massive amount of rage as-is. The only issue i believe you intend on remedying with a change like that would be the starter rage in mythic +. If anything, taking avatar/demo shout off of GCD would help a lot with the start since you should have demo shout for almost every single pull in M+
earnest zinc
The community perception is mainly because of it being harder to play
zinc mauve
DS has a 45 sec cd without accounting for anger management
earnest zinc
Regardless of the reason, if one spec is favored by the top players, that spec is better
lusty grotto
right, its harder to play so shitty warriors do shittier
and good warriors do just fine
zinc mauve
that and a lot of warriors simply have the 'wrong' talent build
earnest zinc
It might not be better for anything, but it is factually better for that content
lusty grotto
Whatever the masses think is better, is better
i guesss
what's that ole quote from Men In Black
earnest zinc
Blizzard has hated prot warrior for a while
open bluff
we're the shaman of tanks
zinc mauve
no its just that they have no idea what the fuck they are doing with the class
lusty grotto
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, and dangerous"
cinder nova
Honestly who fucking cares if tanks are all strong
Not like tanks wag the tail of fight pace anyway
Almost always DPS/Healing checks
Buff prot make em dumb
earnest zinc
Prot should be the best tank if they are the hardest to play
steady dock
What about getting our mastery to work similar to BrM's (each hit you don't block raises your chance to block with +mastery%)? What do you guys think?
sick sentinel
bc people want challenge
junior ivy
why are most of you always EU or horde
sick sentinel
no tank should be the best
uncut valve
Guys, I'm trying to understand how to become a better prot warrior in terms of raiding and M+... especially raiding I often don't know when to block, ignore pain, LS etc... I've read that some people utilize WarcraftLogs for this but the tutorials I've read mostly cover DPS analyses... my question is if anyone has a good guide/article on how to improve as a prot warrior with WarcraftLogs
sick sentinel
you should not be rewarded because "bawww my class is hard"
you should be rewarded for skillful play of whatever class you play
regardless of the base difficulty
zinc mauve
@uncut valve the most important thing is to use your mitigation when you expect damage to come in, not after
lusty grotto
icy veins guide @uncut valve and also our pins
earnest zinc
Honestly just reroll until at least 8.1
zinc mauve
if you can post logs or have a recording of your gameplay we can help you a bit
earnest zinc
It can work if you really like the class and you put in a ton of effort, but you can do it much easier with a monk or pally
uncut valve
ok, thanks guys... I was just wondering if maybe there is a way for me to analyze it without having to post logs and require time from you guys š
earnest zinc
for raids
sick sentinel
@raven ore can u punch this nerd
sand egret
@junior ivy I'm alliance NA!
lusty grotto
i'm not sure if WCL counts bolster+LS blocks as blocked attacks ( i guess it should)
zinc mauve
it is
sick sentinel
it does
raven ore
wait
lusty grotto
ok then
raven ore
whats going on
sick sentinel
big boy won't stop trolling
zinc mauve
le reddit
lusty grotto
so @uncut valve, what you want to check is damage taken, and hover over it, it should show blocked attacks
hover over melee i mean
IIRC
uncut valve
thanks @lusty grotto !
lusty grotto
Also your demoshout uptime should be more than 50-60% at all times
zinc mauve
shield wall is important to use when you expect damage to get yuge
lusty grotto
ideally on @chilly brook's levels
zinc mauve
dont be afraid to use your CDs like shield wall, demo shout, avatar, last stand ,etc on pulls
especially on fortified
lusty grotto
shots fired
zinc mauve
CDs are different for warriors in that they arent really CDs
earnest zinc
Demo Shout is more AM than a CD
zinc mauve
almost all of them can be used every 2nd pull or so
yep
if you see a scary pull coming up, save avatar for it so you can clear the pull faster
lusty grotto
if you have any other questions that aren't covered in the priority/gameplay section of the icy-veins guide feel free to ask us... @uncut valve
zinc mauve
oh and use spell reflect as much as possible against casters
spells do wayyy too much damage to be ignored
lusty grotto
and read what amaurus si saying š
uncut valve
thank you guys!!
zinc mauve
plus the spells will take off like 5-10% hp of a mob
very worthwhile to use to help clear faster
lusty grotto
always remember demo shout lowers spell damage too
zinc mauve
aaaand i didnt know that
lusty grotto
or rather, spells coming from the affected mob
which is why we go DC
we need to keep Demo shout up as much as possible
hushed cobalt
Gutripper or heed the call for dps traits? Heed doesn't have a ppm, but has been doing 4-5% total damage for heroic dungeon
lusty grotto
i went gutripper
dunno, try it out
you mean on mother helm yeah?
errr nvm
i have veins there
i def remember i went gutripper in something
might be the lower ilvl galea i use for arms
dark lark
@fierce juniper great write-up. Hopefully devs take a serious look at it.
fierce juniper
thanks :D
junior ivy
OOO i gotta read it
lusty grotto
i dont understand why so many people are asking for safeguard
i mean... wth
there are more pressing matters
ionic ridge
@fierce juniper and @hot locust thank you both so much <3
dark lark
bUt mAh UtIliTy
ionic ridge
Also @hot locust should've added a line for Sense's Chuck Norris status
dark lark
Sense is simultaneously the main and off tank for Fetid
lusty grotto
lol
neon tangle
reflective plating would certainly make some AoE magic pulls easier
like that stupid pack w/ the casters in TD
dark lark
My own jealousy of Brewmasters and Prot Pallies makes me wish we had some sort of incap, where we just punch a dude unconscious
lusty grotto
at least we throw Mjollnir at someone
dark lark
@neon tangle i rotate intimidating shout and shockwave for that, based on when my dps have already kicked. Otherwise I pray to Odyn
zinc mauve
we sort of have one with that one talent for intimidating shout but it only lasts a few seconds
sand egret
I heard Sense doesn't have the Revenge ability, as that would imply someone could cross him and survive the act.
dark lark
that talent is so underwhelming
dark lark
having storm bolt become an incap would actually be amazing
neon tangle
^^^ I would go for that
dark lark
and have shockwave be baseline among all 3 specs
neon tangle
I would be OK with choosing between an incap and shockwave
dark lark
holy shit now there's an idea
lusty grotto
i stand by my Axe-Nado ravager with chains to all mobs
dark lark
so bonestorm+mass grip = axe-nado ravager?
lusty grotto
ya
dark lark
lol
sand egret
does it throw sharks?
lusty grotto
with a glyph
sand egret
im into it
zinc mauve
having taunt silence casters once or perhaps an AOE taunt functioning the same way would be useful for utility
forces all targets into melee range
chrome falcon
@fierce juniper Liked the post, hopefully blizzard realises how important it is for us to get some m+ utility. Seems they really don't grasp the reasons for high level m+ imbalance
neon tangle
How could the tank w/ bonestorm and mass grip do so well, it's a mystery
better nerf their armor
chrome falcon
Though I kind of disagree with this idea we seem to have in here that we're "too squishy outside of mitigation". I feel like tanks SHOULD get destroyed if they aren't mitigating properly. We just probably need a little more duration on SB.
looks at monks
neon tangle
@chrome falcon It's more than just us getting gibbed outside of AM, other tanks (dk, etc) have their AM baked in to their damaging abilities, so it kinda guides noobies in to at least casting the abilities
and we have a far higher gap between in and out of AM damage intake vs. everyone else
sand egret
I agree with the notion to promote good SB usage as rewarding for good play and not to punish it as severely for bad play
dusk locust
we weave other cooldowns with shield block though. i find myself without mitigation pretty rarely
neon tangle
@dusk locust It's not very obvious to newer players / the "average" prot warrior, and it is very punishing to mistakes
chrome falcon
^
Most people use SW as an oh shit button
Even though it's a terrible oh shit button
dusk locust
that's true, and yeah the perception that war is bad comes from the inexperienced players playing them wrong. i think i would be cool with a "beginner's" talent build which is really easy, but it's, say, 80% as effective as the "advanced" build
chrome falcon
Like, I try to plan my SW usage 20 seconds in advance
neon tangle
I mean, I would love to have SW available to stack on top of SB for actual oh-shit moments
chrome falcon
@dusk locust So basically indom/veng/HR vs deva/BV/AM from legion? Yeah that'd be swell š
neon tangle
but I can't let CDs or AM overlap or else I'm gonna kill myself in like 1 minutes in the future
which also FWIW makes the feedback loop between good and bad play harder
dusk locust
veng was kind of advanced though wasn't it
but yeah indom and HR are along those lines
chrome falcon
Mmm, sorta? Thing was that it was better than BV if you didn't run AM
dusk locust
yeah, you had to weave properly though
sick sentinel
it does a throwy shooty weapony
chilly brook
Hereās an idea
sick sentinel
?
chilly brook
@zinc mauve mocking banner: the warrior plants a banner at their feet with mocking imagery forcing all targets within x range to charge to the banner. Applies infuriated effect to affected targets, causing them to only use melee abilities and attack 15% faster for the next 3 seconds.
dusk locust
that's too much like monk though
sick sentinel
black ox statue
zinc mauve
mocking cry
oblique garnet
Oh yeah warriors had banners in mop
neon tangle
@dusk locust We had banner first š¦
chilly brook
Except statue doesnāt pull people in
dusk locust
o
chilly brook
It just radiates aggro
neon tangle
warriors got them in WOTLK IIRC
chilly brook
And it doesnāt silence
dusk locust
i just want to be completely different than other tanks but still bring something powerful to the m+ table
chilly brook
Thatās why I suggested the banner idea
Itās still kinda like grip but different
dusk locust
the fear is okay but dangerous. we have lots of stuns which is nice but so do other tanks
chilly brook
Thereās a slight drawback
zinc mauve
making it a shout i think would be more thematic
chilly brook
I miss our banners
zinc mauve
tank sims
prot warrior
dusk locust
i really think protecting allies can be the thing
zinc mauve
im pretty sure we dont even have any sims
sick sentinel
i'm writing them