I'd agree with you if it gave like 800 mastery
#protection
graceful mason
chilly brook
We don't really know the exact amount
Unless something changed
Well actually according to most recent MMO-Champion post it's 259 mastery
Which isn't anything to sneeze at
oblique garnet
It depends if they are changing our mastery in 8.1
chilly brook
Mastery universally increases AP for all tanks
chilly brook
Thanks π
oblique garnet
I like that last part where you pretty much solo the unbound monstrosity
chilly brook
lol
It was our paladin's fault for BoPing me
And not saying he was going to do it
Speaking of videos, Asmon dropped some hard truth
vale gorge
259 Mastery is just the base stat right
so it will increase the higher ilvl the azerite piece that you get it on is
vale gorge
well, that's how it usually works as far as I know
upbeat folio
Is anyone playing a death knight in addition to their warrior right now?
outer dew
working on a DK atm
upbeat folio
How do you feel about the way your DK performs vs your warrior?
outer dew
terrible place
lmao
well, it's hard to gauge
my warrior is pretty geared atm
and i'm just leveling
upbeat folio
I'm more thinking like play wise - I already have a warrior I can complete most content with.
Performs was a poor word choice.
outer dew
hmm
I don't' really enjoy reactionary mitigation
but i do enjoy the tools you get for m+
and being able to purge some debuffs
with AMS
obtuse venture
I think next week is when we're gonna feel like dog shit with grievous.
outer dew
yes and no
i think damage inc is less so it's cheaper to top off
but we're more reliant on getting topped off
round vortex
Pogging again π This thing let me put on 2 pieces 350+355 up to 370 and 370 π
oblique garnet
Gz
round vortex
tyty π
oblique garnet
Whats the emissary today?
oblique garnet
That was yesterday
daring marlin
le gasp
oblique garnet
Should already be new one in eu already
round vortex
Oh im OCE
outer dew
i mean
I don't feel like a player's class for tanking is what''s gonna hold them behind
this tier anyway
outer dew
i get your /s
lol
but i'm just saying
I don't feel like the class is gonna be the huge issue this expac
outer dew
Mang
I'm actually considering going back to being a tank main
Even if it's on warrior qq
outer dew
Huge buffs yo
upbeat folio
That was dry humor.
forest tangle
Hey guys, how does it feel being one of the worst tanks in BFA?
Asking for a friend
obtuse venture
can anyone believe the amount of controversy asmongolds video caused on the forums. what a mess.
ember arrow
@forest tangle bad bait, try again
odd ledge
@ember arrow "one of the worst" sounds too generous? π€
prisma night
ember arrow
nah, mostly pointless attempt to stir controversy
sick sentinel
So what ur telling us is that there is another hot take on YouTube is making the rounds about bfa
obtuse venture
most of what he said was meh to me but def agree with him titanforging is a shitty mechanic
outer dew
I mean
The thing about TF
Is I can get away without not mythic raiding on my Warrior ATM
sick sentinel
Titanforging is why I refuse to do mythic raiding
outer dew
And be about the same as someone who does
outer dew
Like seriously considering of just gearing up a DK and just find a heroic guild to meme with on my warrior
I realised the idea of me being a dps main in wow
Is not my fantasy
ember arrow
m raiding is just not worth the effort
sick sentinel
Because the only thing worth doing mythic prog is for the prestige but otherwise the fuck would I spend more than hour banging my head for no reward
daring marlin
I would definitely prefer no WF/TF
ember arrow
with TF, no tiers to get and nothing besides potentially loot. all that behind hours of wiping
daring marlin
If I max out a character I could just...play another lolol
sick sentinel
If WF/TF wasn't a thing itd make sense to do mythic not only for prestige but also for the gear since it's a reward for doing such hard content
sick sentinel
I think a lot of people hated it
outer dew
But those same people complain about not being able to farm az pieces outside of raids besides weekly
sick sentinel
I think problem with that is because it's the highlight of gear
outer dew
That's the only edge raiding has for character progression
outer dew
Thats the sad thing though
Arms simming for me as str as 4th prio in stats
What is this meme
oblique garnet
And even if you do got an item drop if it doeant WF or TF you are not happy just dissapointed that you didnt luck out
daring marlin
@oblique garnet YES
oblique garnet
Meanwhile the casual in your guild gets 395tf on every boss
ember arrow
@oblique garnet they literally made a garbage incinerator to dump all the shit u get spammed with lmao
whats it called
outer dew
A garbage incinerator that eats gold
sick sentinel
Yup
outer dew
Literally made more.money de'ing every purple
daring marlin
I think that's literally what it's called
outer dew
Vs scrapping
outer dew
My warrior was depressed poor
daring marlin
expulsom is fucking cool
outer dew
Shaman? 2 weeks of playing
daring marlin
THEN I GET THIS SHIT LOL
outer dew
80k g off DE mats
misty garnet
archive of the titans over brace for impact?
daring marlin
IN ULDIR YES
misty garnet
450 haste atm
outer dew
Only in uldir
misty garnet
ye
past ledge
Hey guys, im about to start Zek on mythic with the guild tonight, any advice i should consider ?
sick sentinel
Don't die
oblique garnet
^
sick sentinel
And if u do blame the other tank for not taunting
Otherwise becareful and watch ur health and cds
His triple hit is not prot friendly if ur not timing ur CDs right
past ledge
What about the combo he does? Is it a one shot killer?
daring marlin
no
sick sentinel
If u fuck up yes
past ledge
Should i use a Major when he does a combo on me?
sick sentinel
I'd say yes to play safe
daring marlin
most definitely
sick sentinel
But do so before he starts the combo
daring marlin
and make sure to have IP up
ember arrow
since LS makes u have SB up, u block shatter
oblique garnet
Also sr one of the voidlashes
past ledge
SR, SB, IP?
daring marlin
and you can slip SR in there too to make the voidlash easier
past ledge
In heroic i do SR then SB then IP
sick sentinel
Start with IP always
daring marlin
I actually usually SR the last one since I can't be healed after it
sick sentinel
^
daring marlin
for the short debuff anyway
sick sentinel
I save SR for last not first
daring marlin
could pool for IP on both lashes tbh\
ember arrow
u swap at full combo i assume
past ledge
Should we consider swapping after shatter?
ember arrow
i dont think so
past ledge
And in terms of tanking, is there anything different than heroic?
ember arrow
faster movement on the darkness
more damage obviously, and more overlaps
also he has only 2 phases
second one starting at 40%, when he starts spawning orbs
ember arrow
zekvoz is a cool boss
mechancis wise
unlike many, where either tank, healer or dps must do most work, here everyone has to
past ledge
We have 3 tanks in the guild me a monk and a dk, whats the best comp of tanks for this boss?
ember arrow
dk can immune one lash
oblique garnet
I really like uldir as a raid
old zephyr
monk is bad for ZevKoz
ember arrow
why
old zephyr
if you screw up a taunt the monk dies to stagger
daring marlin
prot pally can give zekvoz the middle finger too with spellwarding
raven kernel
there's random raid dmg
past ledge
I think u stay at 1 HP?
ember arrow
yes
ember arrow
random raid dmg doesnt overlap with heal debuff
past ledge
Does beam target tanks?
ember arrow
no
raven kernel
no
ember arrow
unless there are less tahn 5 peopel alive
old zephyr
really monk can't die to stagger, WTF was blizz thinking when designing this class..
ember arrow
u can have 1 mil stagger
be at 1 hp
nothing happens
but any direct dmg u will die
old zephyr
it ridiculous
ember arrow
not really
fierce halo
Good luck getting a stagger cap of 1 million
ember arrow
since theres almsot always raid wide dmg
hollow pumice
Is there anywhere I can easily find what's happening to prot in 8.1? Is there even anything major mentioned yet?
hollow pumice
Alright, thanks
ember arrow
@fierce halo well, monk has 1mil + ehp with ISB up
they in legion while we're in bfa
hearty portal
When are we going to see some prot changes on the ptr?
soft kindle
when you deserve them
next goblet
gemhide is good for us right?
obtuse venture
yes
next goblet
pimpin
alright lets see if i get fukt on this azerite cache
./cry
got fukt
lol
manic perch
its always fun being prot man we love getting fucked π
havent had single BOE since uldir dropped, last night our hunter got 395 legs im still rocking 355....
next goblet
got the 370 bleakweald shoulders
BUT
my current shoulders are 355 and are my DC piece
fuckin rip
tulip pond
My only DC item is 325 PepeHands
next goblet
one can only hope i get a solid DC helm from my weekly chest O.o
or go for a m0 freehold, since my current helm is 340 anyways π€·πΏ
oblique garnet
340 DC shoulders 8)
I could get the 355 if i get 3 weeks worth of conquest caps done
obtuse venture
honeslty i dunno why they didnt just put these talents on the neck. god fucking damnit trying to get pieces with DC
old zephyr
Azerite would be a "good" system (better than tier and legs) if only our almost mandatory trait could bee looted in uldir
rather than having to hope for a random proc in weekly cache
ember arrow
if the traits themselves were good
oblique garnet
Theres only 2 dungeons which drop DC shoulders : )
proud token
Whelp guys it was fun while it lasted but it looks like we are going to get hit with the nerf bat after this performance https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BJ1dYW3nXrARLyfk#fight=8&type=damage-done
vocal nimbus
old zephyr
well it's not like this ammount of damage has any impact on the fight anyway
AoEing the adds that you use to cheese the boss with the rogues is not really interesting, aside from big numbers
raven kernel
yikes
sick sentinel
I have 2 different 370 DC shoulders... one from the PvP cache and one from the emissary yesterday, crucify me
sick sentinel
Hi are the vers PVP trinks good for prot? I have one with a socket
New to prot so not sure if the go to is always to sim it
sonic pilot
33 zul mythic parses for prot warriors. π€
ember arrow
What about it
sonic pilot
Thats not a lot of parses.
ember arrow
Indeed
storm kindle
Been looking at the azerite traits. I'm sitting at 360ilvl, so not too high. Im weighing up the difference between my 2 shoulders which have dc and azerite veins in 5mans. I've run both and from my findings and healers feedback we seem to favour azerite veins. Is this just unique to me or does Dc loose effectiveness in 5 mans?
storm kindle
Ok as my 2pieces of gear have the different traits. What one is better to run the 370 piece with azerite veins or the 355 piece with dc
oblique garnet
355
storm kindle
For 5mans
oblique garnet
355
storm kindle
Ty
oblique garnet
With DC
storm kindle
Blunt but effective π
obsidian gate
amen brosef
oblique garnet
Dc is the only trait worth keeping even if you have 385 replacement for 340 shoulders
obsidian gate
a little off topic of specs.. but im levelling a dark iron dwarf warrior. Just wondering if there are any tips/hints on making it fastr
oblique garnet
Dungeons used to be good but not sure anymore
obsidian gate
nah they're poo unless they have quests in them
vagrant cape
Leveling is slow and awful, just as Blizzard intends.
sick sentinel
Anyone have thoughts on the pvp trinkets with the vers actives? Worth using?
@sick sentinel first of all, we can't sim prot warrior.
Secondly, as far as I know they are really good (imagine our favourite pve trinket is jes'howler that's a str eith a vers on use)
Big vers on a on use trinket is even better in uldir, because your Reorigination Array can be haste but when you press the trinket it becomes vers so we get a massive vers stats boost to absorb something big
Thanks for the response! Our tank needs a few weeks off so I need to fill his spot and my fury trinkets are eh lol. The Uldir tip is great to know. Would you advise using fathoms? Was thinking it would give me a little dps boost.
Unless your trinkets are 375+ I would advise dripping the like 25k gold for blockades
You can also send a screenshot on what your trinkets are and we will suggest the best possible combination
you are awesome thank you
this is what I am working with
Oof, that's a hard choice, gimme a sec
I would go pvp medalion and syringe personally, but if you get blockades, then pvp medalion and blockades
Thank you I really appreciate the help!
sick sentinel
was able to snag one for 8k π
pallid hollow
150k health Prot warr in Random Heroic with dps having 160-180k health.
Prot warrios is better than i thought, but fuck whoever okay with Ignore Pain in GCD
ionic ridge
@shut summit Gratz on mythic G'huun π
shut summit
Tyty
grim prism
Twitter
@ whichever one of you retards was trying to say WoW is the biggest game in the world last week
fallen gorge
i wonder how many more unsubs we need to get ion replaced
maybe if we get below 1M?
grim prism
I think this is Ion's last expac one way or another
fresh dragon
Bastion of Might (New) Avatar increases your Mastery by 259 for 20 sec, and instantly grants you Ignore Pain.
da hell is this? π
next ermine
New azerite trait in 8.1
next ermine
Considering what we have ATM. I don't see it replacing something like brace, since DC is always required
Unless our mastery is super steong
fresh dragon
ok.. some news from 8.1 for war prot?
next ermine
Not yet
fresh dragon
5% armor rework?
nhaaa in Q&A they said that "something" was wrong in the "rotation" of war prot so i think they will change it..
next ermine
We don't know what they're gonna do. All we know is they said that we should see some things on ptr fairly soon
fresh dragon
yes yes.... well let's see... meanwhile with BrM its less stress for me π
chrome falcon
@grim prism There is absolutely no way that wow is at 1.7 million subs, that data has to be wrong
grim prism
There isn't publicly available data either way
Also note it said "active subs" not total subs
grim prism
But imo WA wouldnt publish it if it werent credible
chrome falcon
There is also no way that there were only 3.2 subs on BFA launch
light oasis
I find it hard to believe nobody would screenshot that data
chrome falcon
^
grim prism
And you base that on what? Lol
chrome falcon
3.2 million subs on launch would be like, less than half of any previous expansion?
And BFA had the absolute most marketing of any expansion apart from maybe WoD
ember arrow
Too much money into marketing
chrome falcon
I mean fucking MoP had what, 5 or 6 million?
grim prism
MoP was also six years ago, prior to the massive dieoff in WoD where they stopped publishing sub counts (presumably for a reason)
So, nearly half the game's lifespan if we are being generous with the rounding
chrome falcon
I was way off, MoP was 10 million
You can't tell me that BFA hype was 1/3rd of MoP hype
grim prism
Maybe they hyped the shit out of it to compensate for something 
chrome falcon
Yeah I'm not going to pretend this expansion isn't dogshit but those sub numbers are still wildly inaccurate
spark forge
Is it me or prot warriors have the least amount of health? A druid without bear same ilvl had almost the same health as me
chrome falcon
Nah, there's no "maybe not" about it, any data that puts subs at the start of the expansion at 3.2 million is bullshit
It does suck though that WoD and BFA got all the marketing hype
When Legion was infinitely better than both
chrome falcon
Lmao yes, because those numbers are 99% chance incorrect
I could believe a 50% drop off in sub numbers
grim prism
Anecdotally, everyone I used to play with has either unsubbed or is hugely disenfranchised with the way this expac is going
chrome falcon
But I can't believe 3 million subs on launch
chrome falcon
And anecdotally everyone I play WoW with resubbed for launch
grim prism
Yeah, me too
grim prism
And then unsubbed lol
chrome falcon
It really does feel like they launched BFA, then someone went back in time
And released Legion
Like, Legion feels like BFA if they fixed the problems with BFA
I've never seen a step back as drastic as this
plain ice
ion is a time traveler
chrome falcon
Hopefully he gets lost in the infinite expanse of space time
plain ice
LOL
chrome falcon
Or ends up 1 million years in the future
When he can't do anymore damage
Fucking retard
plain ice
ya'll are killing me
plain ice
someone stop this man
ember arrow
Im just interested in prot changes
grim prism
Haste makes waste π
zealous gull
Re sub numbers, WA said on Twitter it was global minus China, and China could be what, 50% of total WoW subs?
past ledge
Hey guys. for Uldir should i use my 385 chest with Callous or 370 with titans?
tropic star
Someone was asking about leveling a warrior earlier. I invested in gett both of the Battleground trinkets and leveling is amusing. with both trinkets all the heirlooms minus 1 ring, a BG win is easily 1 full level and change. a loss is like 1/3-1/2. Best part is it doesnt eat your rested
so you can queue dungeons as well, or quest between queues
got characters in the 80s that are still getting full levels from BG wins
only time it really sucks is when you queue into a BG full of premade twinks. but at least those are over quickly and you still get your 1/3 of a level
old dagger
does it matter which Azerite piece DC is on? Is there some kind of preferred combo? I'm guessing one DC piece and stacking 2 of the defensive ones, or no?
junior ivy
π¦ π π° @shut summit
shut summit
π
junior ivy
so happy for your kill π
shut summit
Lol thx, was close
old dagger
ah thanks, and for the other two I want BoI?
ember arrow
First prot?
junior ivy
apparently 2nd prot but in my heart he was first prot
ember arrow
shut summit
Ya 2nd, we had 1% wipes thurs
chilly brook
Any of you guys watch Asmonβs video yesterday?
stone crag
yup
digital arrow
what video? is it on youtube or twitch?
chilly brook
Everything he says is true
digital arrow
im in the small percentage that likes it as much as lich king.. π°
chilly brook
I mean Iβm enjoying the content
But all the decisions that have been made/systems that have been implemented grind on me everyday
digital arrow
yeah that warforged stuff makes me think they were trying to copy diablo a bit where u never know if u'll get an incredible drop
chilly brook
Like my desire to raid has severely been ground down from what it was with these loot changes
digital arrow
but it is grindy if u looking for a specific drop
astral crystal
azerite is the only pain to get
for all your other gear needs you can just spam run freehold, tol dagor, and atal'dazar
wintry ermine
the mythic+ cache is the only thing I don't like, and because warriors need DC that made the cache worse for me
chilly brook
Sure but thatβs full on rng still @astral crystal thereβs no longer any player agency in being able to work toward something
wintry ermine
I didn't like the mythic+ cache in legion, and I don't understand why they couldn't make some feel good changes
chilly brook
We donβt have any gear vendors anymore period
Which isnβt a BFA specific thing but itβs certainly far more noticeable with how everything is rng now
wintry ermine
such a simple fix would be to let me choose between 2 or 3 items for the weekly item
but that would make the grind less
= less money
chilly brook
Asmon said it best
Give the playerbase a few carrots on a stick and they play the game, give them too many and they get fed up
@wintry ermine Iβd argue making a game be more fulfilling rather than exciting would net more money
wintry ermine
Well yeah, but they are working off a metric of people playing the game for longer
solid mist
I mean... I nkow the playerbase is huge so this is just anecdotal. But all the people I know don't really need a crazy treadmill and carrot. They like running dungeons with friends, and doing raids, even if they have most the gear they want. The legit enjoy group content. There really isn't any good alternatives out there. D3 style games don't have the roles, MonsterHunter... kinda but again no good roles. Other MMOs maybe, but sunk-cost issues.
People really like raiding and doing M+'s as far as I can tell
chilly brook
Itβs actually sad though because tbh I didnβt really think Iβd end up playing classic all that much
But at this point I almost would rather play classic
sweet kettle
No you wouldn't
wintry ermine
ohgod no, then you have some really thick nostalgia goggles
solid mist
fuck no
wintry ermine
because classic will be a ghosttown 2 weeks in
solid mist
I loved it at the time
... when I was post-college with way to much free time on my hands
wintry ermine
its a terrible game
light oasis
I donβt want to grid months for a single item thanks
sweet kettle
Classic was so unbalanced and purely made it was terrible
solid mist
and came to it from FFXI and it was like the land of milk and honey compared to that
"wait.... quest givers have an '!' over their head and you get a quest log? HOLY SHIT"
daring patrol
@sweet kettle that's partly why the classic crowd likes it though, it was an entirely different game
chilly brook
I have no nostalgia goggles in terms of classic
sweet kettle
It was a shitty game good at 2004 standards but not now
chilly brook
Considering I didnβt play vanilla
And tbh it depends on what version of vanilla youβre thinking of @sweet kettle
sweet kettle
What you mean version?
chilly brook
The last patch of vanilla was a vastly different game from release in terms of balance
chilly brook
At least if preach is to be believed which Iβll give him the benefit of the doubt
sweet kettle
Even the classic shit they will release after the hype it will die out
steel mauve
Compared to vanilla the game has improved so much, like each class almost had 1 spec, imo the vanilla servers are gonna be populated at the start but then 90% of the vanilla players are gonna remember how bad it was and quit
chilly brook
But the actual crowd that played private servers? Nah theyβll keep that alive
wintry ermine
the hype will die out immediatly when people have to pay a subscription fee to play the game they played on private servers free
for a game which aint being developed
solid mist
do private servers tweak xp gain at all? or is it how it was?
wintry ermine
its blizzard we're talking about
steel mauve
I mean i started a year after wow came out so i missed a year of release, but i remember just how shitty vanilla was compared to basically every expac
solid mist
I could see like... quickly leveling something to do some molten core
that could be fun
steel mauve
Private servers gave you the option
solid mist
but spending... infinity amount of time leveling in classic doesn't sound great
steel mauve
The one i played on gave you either 300% gains or the actual vanilla experience
chilly brook
TBH Iβd just like to experience the content as it was meant to be experienced at that level and with the raids
steel mauve
It wasnt a bad game in 2004, but going back 14 years, its pretty bad
wintry ermine
the content is a joke, everything was easy but took time.
chilly brook
While Iβll submit that mechanic wise Modern WoW is probably much better the design philosophy is worse today than it was 10 years ago
Much worse
solid mist
the design philosophy was "what about EQ but polished"
chilly brook
Thatβs not true though
solid mist
I'm half joking, but only half
chilly brook
Go back to the first blizzcon
steel mauve
It wasnt easy in vanilla AND it took years to do any thing
chilly brook
Their design philosophy back then is miles different than today
wintry ermine
thats because everyone was a newb, seriously
less people doing strategy, using everything to their potential
solid mist
no one knew what people wanted, they players didn't know what they wanted, the designers didn't know. it was lighting in a bottle
steel mauve
I mean the mechanics were far simpler in design, but numbers and tuning and all that it was pretty difficult, not to mention coordinating 40 players instesd of 20
chilly brook
Today itβs just like βhow do we make this βexcitingβ and keep people playing for as long as possibleβ
Instead of βhow do we make this challenging and fun for the playerβ
And back then it was βif you wanna do high end content get goodβ not βweβll just make 5 different difficulties of raidβ
Long story short the fulfillment part of the experience has been cut out
wintry ermine
seriously look through the strategy of those encounters... the first things that were any amount of difficult were AQ40 and naxx
steel mauve
Ya pretty much, although i miss ulduar hard mode design, wish we had that back over just flip a switch
Sure the mechanics and strategy is simple in vanilla, doesnt mean tuning wise its still easy though
daring patrol
MC was numbers, BWL was positioning, AQ40 was both, naxx turned those numbers up + added mechanics
wintry ermine
exactly
steel mauve
You mean being the only tank spec, and only warrior spec?
digital arrow
concussion blow
wintry ermine
looking forward to being able to play warrior with 1 button
and being 100% efficient
digital arrow
lmao
chilly brook
@steel mauve again depends on what you actually mean, because fury was actually a good DPS
According to preach anyways
steel mauve
For the 5 seconds it stayed alive at the start of the fight, and STILL being top dps when the boss died
wintry ermine
limited by threat
solid mist
"excuse me hunter, I'm the tank, that bow that dropped is mine. I need it... for reasons"
steel mauve
Tanks couldnt hold threat off a fury warrior, and they were beyond op dps
chilly brook
How much of that was actually not being able to hold threat and how much of it was on players?
solid mist
pour one out for the shamans and paladins. God what a terrible raiding experience for them
digital arrow
@chilly brook did preach do a video on wow classic recently?
wintry ermine
actually not being able to hold threat, unless you had thunderfury
steel mauve
Some of the fury warrior dps rotation consisted of abilities with a threat moderator
chilly brook
@digital arrow nah just some insight from the legacy videos
digital arrow
ooooh
steel mauve
Plus doing s fuck ton more dmg on those exact abilities more than the tank
digital arrow
imma look em up, im curious
chilly brook
Those old things
steel mauve
They invented waiting for 3 sunders because of fury warriors
wintry ermine
not true, but whatever
steel mauve
And the only tank spec depending on the time of the game, prot wars basically were the only tank class you brought, some times pallies could ot, but you didnt really bring a druid for the bear
digital arrow
holding threat was a challenge back then.. and omen was kinda buggy for me
so i'd have to tab target all the friggin time
wintry ermine
fury warriors weren't played a lot at the start because there didn't drop enough 1handers which were good
digital arrow
check target's target
steel mauve
Threat was fucked until bc
steel mauve
Overhealing caused threat, bubble absorbs caused threat
digital arrow
yeah do u know why that was? blizz didnt seem to know how threat worked either back then
or maybe that was just me
solid mist
I dunno how much of this "oh they are making these changes to keep people playing", skinner-box style arguments are real. i think it's a huge fucking game, that is old, and teams have come and gone. and it's hard to have a coherent design for a game that basically stands alone. Look at the shooter market. They can sort of look at what others are doing and make some safe bets.
WoW is doing it on it's own. they def borrow ideas from FFXIV, but it's not a ton. They are the de-facto, the leader. Have been for a long time. They have to figure shit out basically on their own.
But they are too far in now to make a WoW2 or to just overhaul everything.
I don't think they are intentionally making things bad to string people along, it's just hard to come up with new and exciting stuff at a consistent rate.
steel mauve
Has to cancel off hots and pre shields until kata
daring patrol
i mean, they did, but their idea was slow the fuck down and don't pull off the tank, not the other way around
primal crypt
sick sentinel
astral crystal
game-breaking, role-defining trait right there
daring patrol
last stand while you're at it too
astral crystal
more mastery holY SHIet
steel mauve
Sounds like a talent?
solid mist
correct me if I'm wrong, each other tank spec's mastery just gives like... gauranteed increases right? like "increases armor when you use X" and things like that right?
ours is so weird. a chance on top of a chance to get something
astral crystal
it's definitely a trait
steel mauve
Well technically our first chance should always happen the majority if not all the fight, but then it adds a chance when it happens
solid mist
right, but instead of being a smoothing thing, it's like a "win more" effect
steel mauve
Ya its complete rng, either we reduce dmg by a ton or just dont
wintry ermine
agreed
restive matrix
While the 8.1 trait is pretty meh, at the same time i really dont want another trait similar to deafining crash that becomes must have.
Azerite gear is annoying enough with 1 mandatory trait, if they made a new trait that magically fixed prot warrior we would have even more annoyances around gearing
sick sentinel
Our specc is more revolved around "If you're a good player, be reward". Which majority of prot warrs appear to be not. π
wintry ermine
I'd love it if our mastery would be changed to do whatever to ignore pain
astral crystal
the mandatory trait issue should be allayed by the second primary ring
steel mauve
Its not even that rewarding to play well
daring patrol
@sick sentinel i still see warriors prioritizing IP over SB, or flat out not using one or the other
sick sentinel
rest my case.
steel mauve
It would be great if we were more rewarding for not playing like shit, but we just arent, we are basically high risk moderate reward
sick sentinel
oh, you want an easier class/specc? Thats not prot warrior. π
steel mauve
I prefer high risk high reward over playing an easy spec
I dont want it easy, but i prefer if im playing a difficult class i at least get rewarded for such, and if i fuck up im ok with being punished in kind
digital arrow
nods sagely
solid mist
They have some great analytics I'm sure. I'd love to see like... how mahy prot warrios in Uldir eating melee hits, while SB is available, but are spending rage on IP instead
orchid sand
sec
grim prism
As we have covered at least a hundred times in the past month
The problem is that prot is not proportionately rewarded for high-skill play
knotty apex
because people want to complain more rather than learn how to play it
grim prism
Compared to pretty much every other tank in the game right now, our reward for high-skill play is not being instagibbed
knotty apex
it's been like this for months, there's some people who like it and then people who want the old stuff and never adapt
grim prism
Its been like this for several expacs; some specs just underperform and people FotM away from them
neon tangle
@knotty apex I disagree slightly, my problem isn't -me-, everyone I play with is amazed w/ how little damage I take
restive matrix
The reward is giant AOE dps in M+
steel mauve
I actually like the new playstyle, and i have adapted to it
solid mist
unlike BrM where suboptimal play leads to... clean boss kills apparently lol
grim prism
^
neon tangle
my problem is that I can't get in to PUGs because of community perception
digital arrow
^
solid mist
I think I prefer our situation right now tbh
knotty apex
it's just annoying whenever I browse reddit there's always someone crying about hot "prot warrior is the worst tank and can't do anything"
digital arrow
sadbox idk if it has anything to do with my luck in group finder, but i spend a couple of days getting the proven defender achievement in proving grounds, so i have a little icon or something next to my name when u see me in a list of tank applicants
and it helps u stand out
and i've yet to be denied for being prot war
steel mauve
We arent really that bad though, and reddit is a cesspool of threads with a few diamonds
digital arrow
but the highest m+ i've done is 7 so maybe people dont care as much below that
knotty apex
Like, I play blood dk and prot warrior I will admit that blood has a better time surviving a lot of stuff during engage but every tank has niches
neon tangle
@digital arrow I've been denied to +5's and whispered "lol prot"
knotty apex
people just want a scapegoat because they don't know how to play the spec lol
digital arrow
man π
knotty apex
I mena
grim prism
The issues are overrepresented by people being crybabies
solid mist
well people want easy runs, and tehy want carried
knotty apex
every tank can clear any single bit of content that any other tank can
grim prism
But that doesnt mean the issues dont exist
knotty apex
I never said issues dont exist
neon tangle
also honestly I see why people hate us, I've seen some -very- bad prot warriors
like, never use SB, etc
knotty apex
im saying: people find ways to complain about how bad something is without actually learning how to PROPERLY play protection warrior
human error
restive matrix
I mean, at the really high end of M+, DKs are definitely an outlier. When ppl are 4 DPS'ing 17s with a Blood DK there is an issue :p
grim prism
Thats a lot more common than you probs think
knotty apex
not a design error
steel mauve
Ya there are some shit prots, and youtube "guides" isnt helping much
neon tangle
it's relatively hard to play DK or BrM wrong, so it's unsurprising that people take them in PUGs
grim prism
Except prot clearly has design flaws
knotty apex
people who make youtubr guides usually don't take into account the meta can change significantly and usually give bad information
explain the design flaws
not a personal attack im just trying to see your point of view
grim prism
IP scaling has been a problem since last expac and they all but explicitly stated that the formula hasnt changed, plus it is poorly tuned to boot
solid mist
abilites that have a long enough CD so that they appear to be situational use. But in reality need to be used on CD in combination with a specific talent build to maintain decent DR
digital arrow
man brm getting carried in m+, someone had to say it
grim prism
Our most scalable defensive trait is the shield; the only armor piece that doesnt TF
We have rage management issues
restive matrix
Will be interesting to see how much block we have when lik eilvl 430 shields are a thing
knotty apex
they stated that weaponms will not be able to TF and im fine with that
grim prism
But why is so much of our defensive ability tied to one item, when most other tanks are based off health or primary stat?
solid mist
yeah, but our shield is directly tied to our primary mitigation ability. Other tanks is not, their overall stats matter. Swap out weapons for some shitty greens on a BrM and it's irrelevant. take a 370ilvl prot war and give him a shitty green shield LOL
neon tangle
@grim prism I agree w/ this, I still thing SB is the problem
neon tangle
It's way too powerful, and it's way to coupled w/ a specific piece of gear
grim prism
So that doesnt make sense at a glance
knotty apex
all of those issues you just said can be easily fixed with change of play ill make a text document
steel mauve
I like getting 70% uptime on demo shout
neon tangle
and most of the issues from prot flow from trying to keep us balanced around a super-fucking-strong AM
solid mist
lol wut?
knotty apex
because all of those things you said i'ved talked to numerous people on here about it before
grim prism
Just search my name and look at one of the dozens of other times ive had this exact convo in the past two months
knotty apex
I come on here frequently and the same topics come up all time
grim prism
I'm pretty much just parroting talking points from the officers at this point
grim prism
Your first post in this channel is from less than a month ago? Lol
Go ahead and make your text document
Ping me when you post it if you really want
steel mauve
Im in here daily and havent seen his name
grim prism
Chances are it's already been hammered to death by people with a lot more stake in this community
solid mist
a lot of this is attacking the arrow and not the archer. DC + Talent Build is a symptom. The problem is low level design. EVERY tank spec should be able to function w/o picking any talents. Talenst shoul be nicities, flavor, and maybe some fight specific choices (I really need mobility here, oh I need enhanced intercept to protect our healer eating this one ability, etc.). War is broken in that we have a very rigid talent requirement + DC
steel mauve
And pretty much all of balsaqs points cant be adjusted by play, we almost require 60%+ demo shout uptime with dc, we cant play around that
We require a high ilvl shield, so we have to do high m+ when we require a high ilvl shield to do those
grim prism
Yeah, we have ONE viable talent build and very strict gear requirements, most of which cannot be targeted in M+
Add that to the list
knotty apex
@grim prism im not sure why you're being so passive aggressive about this, I literally said it wasn't a personal attack and now you're saying "I don't have stake in this community?" not sure what that means. I was going to make my points to what you said but now it's not worth trying to convince someone who thinks that discussion = a personal attack. No thanks man
grim prism
I'm not personally attacking you, I'm just telling you you're wrong
knotty apex
Not cool to discredit someone and act like an elitist because I don't talk in here frequently bro
steel mauve
I dislike our talent build options, i love the build, but i would like more niche choices, i shouldnt have to take the exact same build no matter what im doing and never change it, thats not fun for me
solid mist
how about this can you give us like 3 bullet point tl;dr; or something of what you are talking about these changes of play that we need to do?
digital arrow
even if blizz added incentive for high level playing class, would it really be useful in WoW's current raid? i dont see everyone crazy about pushing phases except on zul. To compare, pushing ffxiv's raid bosses is huge, and most difficult class, monk has potentially the most damage..... hmm maybe samurai took that top spot recently. i havent played in a while
but difficult/rewarding class has no place in these fights, i think
steel mauve
I mean, you are 100% wrong, you CANT fix with play, his points that he brough up that you asked lol
solid mist
well yeah, blizz has said they want the difficulty to come from mechanics, not classes. so having a difficult to play class jus tmakes it harder, since blizz is designing around mechanics
digital arrow
oh
knotty apex
It's not even worth sending you whatever I already typed up, no reason to be an elitist and dismiss advice someone is trying to give especially another viewpoint
solid mist
listen man. 99% of people in here would LOVE to be able to fix these issues with simply changing the way we play
so I'm not sure what you are on about
steel mauve
The problem is you cant
knotty apex
one second
vagrant cape
Man, this was a great read while I was in the shower. 10/10 would popcorn again
solid mist
dude... don't take your laptop/phone in to the shower with you
oblique garnet
Byron i agree
steel mauve
Idk my phones water proof
young harbor
you making a salad too kramer?
sick sentinel
Pics or it didn't happen
solid mist
π
neon tangle
I live in the future where my phone is waterproof
grim prism
I live in suspense waiting for this document
daring patrol
how fast can you whip-tuck @vagrant cape
vagrant cape
Man, I'm kinda hungry. I could go for a shower salad. Nice reference btw
solid mist
I just don't trust any of these devices which have built-in cameras enough to bring one in the shower with me
op-sec
daring patrol
@solid mist says the guy using discord
vagrant cape
Honestly I don't know what a whip tuck is
solid mist
I'm fully clothed right now
grim prism
Byron is gril confirmed
solid mist
so whatevs
oblique garnet
I have never seen term "whip-tuck" before
grim prism
Me either but it's pretty vivid imagery
sick sentinel
I'm naked under my clothes
vagrant cape
Gasp
solid mist
words are weird
grim prism
s t r u m p e t
steel mauve
Oh you're naughty
daring patrol
its when you flap it back an forth REAL QUICK and try to catch it to perform the perfect tuck
oblique garnet
Yeah ok i didnt need this image
daring patrol
<3
vagrant cape
Usually takes me about 15 minutes to manage my girth, if my girth were equivalent to my uldir parses π hey look at that, I brought us back on topic.
grim prism
I was legitimately curious about this prot dissertation
vagrant cape
Same
grim prism
idk if that was unclear
vagrant cape
I'm gonna need more shower salad if I'm gonna be kept waiting
grim prism
it's just hard to not be skeptical when someone says the WoW equivalent of "the sky isnt blue, you just arent looking at it right"
vagrant cape
I hooked up a vinegar drip into my plumbing so I always have some balsamic vinegarette ready
grim prism
inb4 some bullshit about what color the sky is
vagrant cape
I mean....
steel mauve
Sky is actually green...
solid mist
I mean, it's entirely possible that everyone is so tunnel-visioned that we aren't seeing a different way to play. Unlikely, but it's possible
vagrant cape
#ColorBlindness
steel mauve
Extremely unlikely when the top theorycrafters have made guides about how to play the spec
solid mist
agreed
steel mauve
And update it regularly
oblique garnet
idk keeping up 75% uptime on 20% dmg mitigation doesnt seem bad
daring patrol
inb4 apple really bought blizzard years ago "It's not bad, you're just using it wrong"
vagrant cape
Although we can't sim dps so maybe ravager was sleeper OP all along...
daring patrol
dont remind me
vagrant cape
I wish blizz would just admit that their decision making is entirely based on keeping us subbed so they could at least be honest and open and maybe come up with good systems that work for that model
knotty apex
@solid mist check pms
wintry marsh
Is the mythras trinket hc better than rezan eye (370) or blockades?
grim prism
The whole channel wanted to see that doc tho :<
steel mauve
75% is a lot on demo shout, i was able to get 71% and a 69% this week, and around there on a couple other fights
oblique garnet
For defensive purposes yes its better than rezan
steel mauve
Blockades is better than eye, unless its like a 380 eye
oblique garnet
Also ironkuting i was just rounding up the number
steel mauve
I dont much like eye regardless its pretty bad any ways
oblique garnet
Its saved me on multiple occasions in m+
chilly brook
Well
grim prism
:protsweats:
chilly brook
Time to see what Reddit says about my guide
oblique garnet
"youre wrong"
chilly brook
π π«
grim prism
Post it pls
grim prism
I only tell people theyre wrong when theyre actually wrong @oblique garnet
@chilly brook this is what I wanted
I cant watch vids at work tho π‘
chilly brook
π’
steel mauve
A proc on a trinket when you get under half hp on a 2 min cd with an absorb less then a full ip
sick sentinel
Blockades, 370 Syringe w/ socket, 370 Rezan's, 375 Jes Howler, 385 Dooms Fury. What do?
π€·
chilly brook
I actually hope people find it helpful
steel mauve
Blockades and howler defensive
Howler is strong at a lower ilvl, and amazing at higher
chilly brook
One of the main reasons I made it is because itβs simply much easier for me to just link it to someone whoβs actually needing help and, for myself being a visual learner, I can only imagine a decent amount of others struggling with the class are as well
digital arrow
lol i like that name "the angry astronaut"
oblique garnet
Man i miss wotlk talents and having to use rend and after that thunderclapping to spread rend to all targets
digital arrow
damn now i wanna play a space flight sim
snow osprey
hey gentlemen! I've got a bit of a stupid question, but wanted to consult with you)
I've got bad luck with thunderclap trait on my gear. My ilvl is 373, I've got 2 pieces of BfI trait + 1 Titan Archive.
I can swap one BfI for the Deafening Clash, but that would be ilvl sacrifice. 370 shoulder to 345 shoulder.
Is this trait worth this downgrade?
oblique garnet
Unfortunately
steel mauve
You should absolutely drop 25 for it
oblique garnet
voldun emissary gave me 370 headpieces and all i need is better shoulders : )
snow osprey
roger that! Appreciate your advise π
yesterday I finally got a hand on 370 shield to replace 340 one
feeling eager to tank
oblique garnet
Nice getting a good shield is after DC the 2nd most important thing
digital arrow
"if you dont like the idea of your personal mistake being able to get you killed, then there are five other unathletic window looking tanks that will suit your needs" π nice one @chilly brook
digital arrow
yup
chilly brook
Yea I actually used to be pretty into space sims hence the name
Just waiting for a good one
E:D isnβt bad
But itβs also a little too heavy on the grind for@me
solid mist
E:D is so much fun
the only thing I every tried on VR where I went "ok I get it, this is amazing"
grim prism
Oh man
solid mist
I just wanted to get enough money to get some ships to be fuel rat
those dudes seem cool
grim prism
I played the fuck out of E:D around launch
I have a few dozen systems under my belt, from back when finding new shit was easy lol
I quit when Horizons dropped because I felt like they were rolling in features I expected from my backer money
But lowkey think I might give it another shot
solid mist
you ever try the actual... flight sim? like... w/o the fake intertial dampeners?
holy shit
how people play like that is beyond me
grim prism
Yeah man
solid mist
but it's cool as hell
grim prism
Thats how I usually play lol
solid mist
that's some galaxy brain shit man
grim prism
I've been playing flight sims since I was like five tho
Back in the DOS days
So thats my sperg category of choice
solid mist
I turned it on like "ok I'm good at games I got this OH GOD I'M SPINNING OUT OF CONTROLLLLLL"
grim prism
Just remember to keep all your shit centered by default, and less is more
grim prism
LOL
mellow bridge
@chilly brook Is there any important information in that guide that isn't in the icyveins guide already?
chilly brook
Probably not but I also donβt live on icyveins so I canβt say either way
sick sentinel
: D
chilly brook
Some people also like seeing someone play it while theyβre talking about it
I know I do
mellow bridge
Yeah, not saying it's useless or redundant or anything
Just dont want to watch a 25 min vid and not learn anything from it
sick sentinel
All the hand holding how to play.
chilly brook
Yea itβs not really intended for someone who isnβt struggling
solid mist
also generational thing (lol get off my lawn)? preference of video over written guide?
oblique garnet
All i do is just check the talents read what they do and then read my abilities to see what im supposed to use etc i like to figure things out myself (when playing a new class)
grim prism
I feel like a properly-done video can be WAY more effective than a written guide
Listening, seeing, and doing are three different skills though
Some people respond better to one than another
mellow bridge
I highly prefer written guides tbh, especially when I just want to look up something specific real quick
I feel like most video guides are too slow for my taste
chilly brook
Why is there a 10 minute cooldown on commenting on reddit?
grim prism
Maybe you've been moderated
oblique garnet
Did your post get deleted?
chilly brook
Itβs really just a preference thing, people just simply learn in different ways thereβs no real best way of doing it
Not that I know of
Just says Iβve posted too much recently lol
grim prism
what was the title π¬
oblique garnet
Youβre probably playing Prot Warrior WRONG. Donβt believe me? Hereβs a guide from a prot warrior actually progressing in Mythic Uldir.
oh sense actually killed ghuun yesterday?
candid cove
Impossible. The community says prot warriors canβt tank.
candid cove
Still waiting on the other 85 alliance guilds to get mythic ghuun so I can do cross realm raiding.
oblique garnet
Well theres still only 2 guardian druids who have killed ghuun
2 prot warriors and 2 guardian druids
5 dhs
jovial reef
2 prot warriors and 2 guardian druids Pog game finally balanced
warriors being underpowered was a big lie
Pog
grim prism
POG ERRS
oblique garnet
So 2 Warrs 2 Druids 5 DHs and 6 Pallies rest have been DKs and monks i wonder which are the most op tanks atm π€
candid cove
Just remove Ip from your bar and tell your healers to heal better. Get those orange parses.
jovial reef
what my guild's tank does^:)
oblique garnet
oh wow 97 monks have killed ghuun on mythic XD
shadow sinew
sick sentinel
and thats why i quit warr started playing rogue
if you are alliance people are more brain-dead thinking dk is the only way
dark junco
I got the 370 DC azerite vhest yesterday
Replaced the 340 one I had
And with Doomβs howl shoulders + Mother head, got BFI+AVi in shoulders and head
Pretty happy about it lol
oblique garnet
@shadow sinew Well you didnt miss much the only dungeons that man has ever gotten on time are +3 atal and +2 freehold
solid mist
lol, checking the receipts
oblique garnet
2 hours in atal +12 o.O
solid mist
Some say Rezan is still chasing them
chilly brook
Bro the majority of the replies. βMythic progression? Lul 2/8β
Or βMythic Mother omegalulβ
As if the majority of people doing prog are any further than Zekβvoz
oblique garnet
Welcome to reddit where "everyone" is 8/8
chilly brook
Like the groups progress is in any way indicative of one personβs performance
Which is why you canβt have anyone who didnβt do world first on top position of parse
Oh wait
π€
Itβs such a false dichotomy
Prot is bad
Perpetuates stigma
Then use someone who plays the classβs position in Mythic raid as justification
solid mist
I mean, that doesn't really say anything about prot. says a shit ton about BrM
and a little bit about DK
chilly brook
Youβre not going to see a majority of prot warriors in guilds super far up in progression because of the stigma youβve created
solid mist
but people are dumb and can't use their brains
dark junco
^
chilly brook
Not because of the performance of the class or perceived lack of performance
solid mist
so instead of seeing that "omg brew is just completely dominating, something is wrong" it's "omg prot war is last, they must be dumpster fires"
@shut summit lol I read the left column first, so didn't see your text on the right before I saw the Asian??? row and I was all π π€
chilly brook
I also like how the goal posts are constantly moving
And how viable has some sort of fluid meaning to reddit
solid mist
well I do believe people have probably had bad experiences in an a random pug raid or M+ with a prot war using some garbo talent build who never hits his SB button
and that just reinforces the stuff they are reading/hearing
grim prism
I mean
r/wow is a hilariously stinky dumpsterfire
it's basically the wow forums with fewer rules
oblique garnet
@shut summit Dose wowprogress track if they were in the guild or at the kill i mean i just checked wcl and it looked different
junior ivy
omg time to see what 370 azerite i guess
graceful mason
Wish I could get a 370 shield from emissary
minor timber
Am i using the right trinkets? coming from arms and trying to learn prot on the side.
graceful mason
Living the -15ivl from avg shield life
steel mauve
Defensively yes, thats a good set up
graceful mason
I'd usebl blood over blockades personally
minor timber
I've macro'd howler into avatar to try and get most uptime, or would you keep it seperate to use as a mini cd
minor timber
great ty for the advise
prisma crane
Same item i got. I just use it for arms
junior ivy
im using it for prot anywya cause my old prot helm was a shitty 355
this makes me sad though
this freaking 340 shoulders..
worthy karma
Ahahahaha jokes on us. Prot war fix for 8.1 is a pvp talent
junior ivy
that i cant replace..
worthy karma
I got 370 chest with DC in it, let me replace my 340shoulders with 385
digital arrow
@chilly brook did you post your guide to Reddit? Is that where those comments are from?
chilly brook
yea
minor timber
just watched it matt, i found it very usefull thankyou
chilly brook
The intellectual bastion of reddit
@minor timber glad you did!
And I'd like to add that is with our BrM getting our healers externals on combos
solid mist
hard to argue with logs
steel mauve
Wars taking the combo on zekvoz easily with our own cd's, brms either need outside sources or the stagger nearly kills them
Man i hate typing on a phone
zinc mauve
Pretty much every time my raids monk took the combo, he nearly died
I had to use RC twice to save him
steel mauve
Stagger doesnt kill you, but the combo stagger will pretty much take you to 1hp
And keep you there
solid mist
on mythic you still eat the full combo ro do the mid-combo swap?
steel mauve
I dont think it matters unless the tanks dont feel comfortable with the dmg
solid mist
you are a warrior right? so yeah ;P
junior ivy
but im SURE i could handle the full thing
steel mauve
Again depends on the co tank
junior ivy
hes a brewmaster
steel mauve
We swap mid combo, my brm co tank wasnt comfortable with the full combo dmg
So to keep it consistent i dont take full combo even if i could