#protection | Skyhold | Page 2161

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 9:55 AM

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warr is considered to be the most punishing tank spec there is, so i'd fully expect pally to be easier ¯_(ツ)_/¯

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 9:55 AM

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Playing a paladin isn't easier, it's about the same.

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 9:55 AM

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i disagree heavily

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 9:57 AM

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In m+ if I have 2 brace for impact on gear, should I prioritize slamming over clapping or is extending DS as much as possible too important?

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 9:58 AM

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Clap slam

carmine dust Oct 8, 2018, 9:59 AM

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I'm having less trouble on my pally than the warrior atm, and it's 13 ilvls lower, with a 15 ilvl smaller shield. :V

chilly valley Oct 8, 2018, 9:59 AM

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TC would take priority since you're just pushing to shorten the gaps between DS, so it'll be clap > slam but you get a GCD between claps even with avatar up usually so you can do a decent weave unless you need to IP

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:01 AM

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@stone crag @carmine dust
Not sure if I understood the question correctly 😃
Are we talking about which class is easier to play or which class is stronger?

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:03 AM

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i'm considering what's easier and effective

carmine dust Oct 8, 2018, 10:04 AM

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I feel like pally is both personally, though it could be attributed to me being a scrublord. I feel like I have to micro-manage a lot more on the warrior, yet achieve less results, managing shield block/IP, TC/Avatar/DS windows, being mindful of LS etc etc, whereas the paladin feels more like "Stand in consec. SoTR. Self-heal if low."

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 10:06 AM

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Fuck-all-mechanics-bubble

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:06 AM

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Monk is the most easy and the most effective in raid situation. DK in m+.

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Monk and Dk are about the same difficulty, keep ISB/BS up, purify/DS as needed.

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And for me that is about enough difficulty for tank. Fun comes from feel of the class and how fluid it plays, not how hard you should think when playing. But that is my opinion.

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:10 AM

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All I want is prot warrs to be able to be accepted in pug grps, had really bad experience with pug world as prot

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:10 AM

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That is not going to happen, unless blizzard do really strong public statement that they buffing warriors considerably.

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Even thaen stigma would be hard to overcome. Enjoy being underdogs.

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 10:11 AM

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Unless they do prot less punishing

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No way in hell im joining a m+ with a warrior tank

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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Good prot warrs are a sign of that u keep track of magic dmg taken, physical dmg taken etc. Not like u pop all shields n go afk on pala

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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Well i rock m+ as warrior and my healers love healing me. IDC about pugs,

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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And I do too

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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Strictly my opinion but I don't like playing simple tanks

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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No way in hell i am joining any pug unless it is like +5 or less

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 10:12 AM

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But im not expecting a pug to carry his own weight with a meh spec

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:13 AM

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I carried +11 pug once

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Good time

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:13 AM

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Yeah if you tanking pug, you want to be able to carry.

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DK is perfect for that.

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:14 AM

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mind you that I'm still talking about prot warr

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:14 AM

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Skilled Warrior plus healer can carry low keys easily

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:14 AM

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thing with tanks that can heal is, if u "carry" u hardly even need healer

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:14 AM

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I find shockwave and inti shout extremely useful

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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mitigate isnt as fun when u outgear stuff

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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Just pull 2 to 3 packs and leave your dps questioning the meaning of their life

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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@raven kernel Understandable. I like classes that feel fun and fluid. If they all that but simple mechanically, i am fine with that. Example = i like BM hunter, Havoc and Vengeance, Fury.

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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+11 was fun (with the 344 gear back then) xD

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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90% of the shit I pug, its me or a friend leading

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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If class if hard but fun and rewarding, that is good with me too.

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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I find havoc and venge incredibly boring

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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True

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

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Bear is worse tho

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:16 AM

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I cant stand bear

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:16 AM

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Dh is basically 4 buttons

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For the 2 specs combined

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:16 AM

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Bear is utter boring shit with 1 button and NOTHING really changed, rofl... did main guard dudu on Legion, was a blast

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:16 AM

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DHs are fast and flashy, and effective, and can do lots of things. YOu see the pattern, i like classes with mobility and fast rotations.

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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any other tank that prot warrior feels boring tbh

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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Prot warr is lots of fun and u have to keep on your toes all the time, I like that about it

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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when it gets to the point of, it doesnt really matter if u press ur mitigation tools

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a class just becomes stupid

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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I was fine with Legion Guardian

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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Legion Guardian was lots of fun

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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legion guardian was argueably the easiest of all tank specs tho.

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:17 AM

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Venge rotation is 223223223 and leap for sigil of flame

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:18 AM

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most tank specs are way too passive rn

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like when i play my paladin i feel like im focusing more on dps than being defensive cuz theres no depth to their toolkit.

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:19 AM

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As a prot warr it's all about burst n kite n move all the time n kite some more with mouseover intervenes and leaps

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U can actionpack it pretty good on prot

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:19 AM

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I actually kite very little as warrior

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:19 AM

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Cant imagine DK doing that

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:20 AM

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Unless it's fortified necrotic

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:20 AM

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i kite a fuckton as prot compare to the others.

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:20 AM

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i love how the conversation always devolves to "prot is just more skilled guys"

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:20 AM

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if u got any downtime of shield block or anything ur gonna get reckd.

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:21 AM

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as if a class that requires more effort for same result isnt per definition worse

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:21 AM

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Yeah but you shouldn't have downtime at the start of a pull

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:21 AM

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you cant kite at the start of a pull either.

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:21 AM

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Paladin vs. Warrior

active mitigation with limited up-time (SotR / Shield Block)
secondary mitigation in the form of heal/absorb (LotP / IP)
offensive cooldown with minor defensive benefits (Avenging Wrath / Avatar)
offensive/defensive cooldown used mostly on cooldown (Seraphim / Demo Shout)
a defensive cooldown often used to bridge gaps in mitigation, can also be used as oh-shit button (Ardent Defender / Last Stand)
a strong defensive ability on a long cooldown (Guardian / Shield Wall)
a magic only ability (Spellwarding / Spell Reflect)
a situational gimmicky cooldown that can remove/prevent some debuffs/cc (Divine Shield / Berserker's Rage)
a hard hitting rotational ability generating resource that you want to use on cooldown (Judgment / Shield Slam)
an AoE rotational ability that you want to use on cooldown (Avenger's Shield / Thunder Clap)
a filler rotational ability (Hammer of the Righteous / Devastate)
one more ability to round up the spec (Consecration / Revenge (+ rage management))

Overall those 2 classes play very similarly in my opinion. Of course some of these ^ don't match up perfectly 1:1, but the key ideas like low AM up-time, cooldowns on rotational abilities etc. are similar.
I wouldn't say one is easier or harder design wise, they both have similar baseline playstyle and similar options to min-max both defensively and offensively.

Of course this say nothing about the strength of the classes.

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:22 AM

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When I know I'll have gaps in block uptime I'll kite for the few secs it takes for my next sb charge to be up

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:22 AM

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Depends, shield block has a rage cost and i believe it mitigates far better than SotR on its own

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:22 AM

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Is there a list of Haste-breakpoints for Protection ???

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*for shieldblock

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:23 AM

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What breakpoints do you have in mind?

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:23 AM

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idk how u would breakpoint a thing with charges

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breakpoint is more like, how many claps can i squish into my avatar with this much haste %?

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

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Can't stress out how many times Intervene saved me for the extra one or two seconds

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

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Theres a breakpoint to get 3 sb before bolster

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

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idk why u would but many encounters u can even ktie non stop

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

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At lower haste only 2

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With lust in uldir can do 4

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:24 AM

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like i was tanking a temple of seth somehting with a green shield one day, and found myself non stp kiting the add on last boss ;p

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:25 AM

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like how much haste you need to lower the cd on CB

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:25 AM

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But these aren't really breakpoints to worry specifically for

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:25 AM

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its not really a brekpoint cuz each point of haste lowers cd of CB

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:25 AM

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e.g. 32% haste = 14sec cd on shieldblock

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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people still think cds move in 1 cd breakpoints smh

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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how much haste we need the get 13 sec etc

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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a breakpoint would be if u run with the talent, that makes sheidl slam increase duration of sb

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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It just doesn't display decimals above 10 second cds guys

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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hence if u can get 2 full cds into a shield block, it would be a breakpoint u want to reach

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shield block has nothing to do with breakpoints on a defensive perspective.

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 10:26 AM

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Sb is a fixed duration while the cd is reduced by haste, so there will be breakpoints for chaining sb back to back

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:27 AM

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ok sry maybe breakpoint was the wrong word

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:27 AM

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Serious note: Blizzard added GCD and now it's become WORLD OF HASTECRAFT, everyone wants more haste for lowered cds, lowered gcds and quicker playstyle = bigger DPS, bigger defensive values from cds reduced etc. GG lol

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I'd prefer oldschool cata reforged and stats from there

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:27 AM

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its not like all classes stack haste.

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:27 AM

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Not this haste shit all the time

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I know, but it just seems like it

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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So you prefer when haste is a useless stat over the situation where all stats are good?

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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thats cuz theyre doing litterally nothing to make a stat like crit good for prot

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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I prefer balanced choices

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Not one stat that is ultraOP

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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Current stats are extremely balanced, better than ever in WoW history

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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And that makes you really stand out compared to other stats

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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For prot warriors at least

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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I prefer when I don't need one stat for my class to actually feel fluid in playing

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for prot it's aight but some other classes feel terrible

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:28 AM

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every stat should do at least 2 things on their own to have value all around, i do like how crit gives parry but we used to get all kinds of bonus rage for crits and now we don't =/

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:29 AM

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bring back enrage as prot

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:29 AM

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and vers is just a lazy filler stat, defense at least changed more

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:29 AM

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or just be lazy and have ss crits give far more rage

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:29 AM

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@junior igloo I agree, but I still enjoy the game more when every stat has a unique utility to it. Its currently fine for prot, but fury for example only notices stacking haste and all other stats are just damage

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:29 AM

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crits should give rewards, kinda like what it does for pladin

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:30 AM

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tis a dps spec, everything just "gives more damge"

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:30 AM

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no, not when a proc is linked to crit or mastery is more than just "do dmg"

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:30 AM

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judgement crits reduce sotr cd tho

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:30 AM

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crit is dynamic just like haste is

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increases ur enrage procs .

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:31 AM

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not anymore

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too bad

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 10:31 AM

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I mean, it's always been like this, even on Cataclysm for example, assa rogue went mastery > haste, bigger dmg with poisons and haste gave u energy regen and attackspeed

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:31 AM

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I just asked because I'm wondering if there is a point where you are not going full on Haste anymore

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:31 AM

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as it stands there is no such thing as "too much haste"

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:31 AM

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breakpoints are mostly only relevant in the scenario of a dot or hot.

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and i believe those were even fixed.

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a breakpoint could be to get 20 instead of 19 gcds within a avatar or somethign like that

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:32 AM

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haste breakpoints mattered when snapshots were a thing, but that's been changed

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:32 AM

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same could be case for each sheild block charge with damge

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but theyre all so insignficant.

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:33 AM

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Ok+

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:33 AM

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Crit gives parry and is the strongest stat against physical damage that can be parried. Parries also prevent some debuff applications such as the bleeds in King's Rest or Necrotic. Arguably the best stat for dungeons, at least on Necrotic weeks.
Mastery gives highest reduction against attack that are already blocked. It's easily the best stat on tank-swap fights where you can have Shield Block up when tanking and then let it recharge while off-tanking.
Versatility is the best stat against bleeds and magic damage (generally against attacks that can't be blocked/parried).
Haste is the hardest to evaluate, it is by far the weakest (less that half of other stats) in terms of pure damage mitigated numbers, but has the added benefit of letting you choose when to use the extra mitigation (because it comes in the form of more Shield Blocks and cooldowns).

All stats are extremely close in general and different stats shine in different situations/encounters.
I literally can't imagine them being balanced any better.

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:35 AM

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Wait

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you can parry the bleed?

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:35 AM

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you can parry some attacks the apply bleeds, yes

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:36 AM

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I specifically mean the berserkers in KR

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:36 AM

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Ravager

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:36 AM

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since Meiffert mentioned that

tiny sphinx Oct 8, 2018, 10:36 AM

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it's kinda like rolling dice at a craps table to avoid getting shot in a casino, but it can happen

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:37 AM

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Another question .... : I have [Disc of Systematic Regression] -> One at 370 Ilvl and the other one with 360 Ilvl but 1 socket and 70 leech ..... in my opinion the 360 is the better one ... am I right ?

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:37 AM

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yes.

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trinket effect is pretty shit so go for soc

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

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Like for raiding priority

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

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might aswell sim their dps and pick based on that.

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

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Like with all the issues that we have, such as talents "choices", general survivability, low EHP, very punishing for mistakes etc., mastery mechanic being very awkward, complaining about the balance of secondaries would be the last on my list 😃

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

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I would say that the socket is worth more than the like 15 str or some shit you get

whole junco Oct 8, 2018, 10:38 AM

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I can only sim it as DPS and if I do the 370 is better one

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:39 AM

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I'm fine with just equipping the highest number I can get

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Having all your secondaries be roughly equal in the days of m+ is a blessing

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:40 AM

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Talent choices LUL

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We can choose between shockwave cd and stormbolt

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and tclap aoe or bounding strikes

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:40 AM

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I do not do dungeons for gear, I do dungeons because its fun, so whatever titaforges I put it on

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 10:40 AM

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dont you see all those choices

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:41 AM

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Tclap aoe has fucked me so many times you don't even know

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:41 AM

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just prtend the "useless" inner choice of ur azerite armor is talent choices

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then u get choices

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 10:41 AM

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You don't really need it anyway

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 10:41 AM

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Breaking incaps, saps and general cc

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:43 AM

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clap range is good for kiting xD

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but so is bounding, seems like a nobrainer

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:44 AM

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Safeguarding your fixated allies though

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:44 AM

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cant tank of where that would be usefull

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theres like 1 fixate mechanic in all dungeons?

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:44 AM

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underrot and freehold come to mind

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other raid dmg can be intervened aswell

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:45 AM

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i mean it's useful in more situations than just fixates

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:45 AM

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litterally any dps targetin ability

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but theyve tried so hard with that intercept mechanic and it has never really been super good imo.

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:47 AM

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but in the end it doesnt even matter

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:47 AM

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🤦

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:47 AM

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hahah

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but like we even had that legendary chest

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and omg that thing was shit

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:48 AM

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it was impractical to use

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and the shield u gained was very small iirc

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:48 AM

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i actually tried to maek it work by spam intercepting co tank and stuff

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:48 AM

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u must basically let an ally be attacked

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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exactly.

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its like u want to intercept a arms warrior and have him taunt boss

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to make it work

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and even if u did that it wouldnt be worth it

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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it didnt work on dmg prevented from safeguard

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iirc

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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idk i believe it transfers any direct hit to you

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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90% of the time it'd take longer for the stacks to get used than the actual absorb from the chest

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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and it shields based on that hit

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:49 AM

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right

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:50 AM

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it was a super awfull mechanic regardless

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tbh i didnt even find any major uses for the intercept traits we had on artifact

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:51 AM

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forgot it was even a trait

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:52 AM

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might just have been a non elite 0/1 trait or somethign

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but they made quite a big deal out of it on the shield

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:52 AM

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yeah

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looked it up

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https://puu.sh/BHCcG/047aed70e3.png only one with intercept

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:53 AM

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0/1s were usually pretty damn good

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so that one annoyd me

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they should just remove that mechanic and make safeguard baselien

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 10:55 AM

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bring back warbringer while they're at it

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:56 AM

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Put warbringer on safeguards location and let us have 3 stuns

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 10:57 AM

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make IP stackable, offgcd and free

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 10:57 AM

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remove ip and give us something usefull

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like even if they would remove it and make us the 10th tank class with a "press for armor"

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i would be happier

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 10:59 AM

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No thanks

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I like IP a lot better than that.

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Let's just wreck our only consistent way to deal with magic mitigation though...

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

chilly valley Oct 8, 2018, 11:00 AM

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Variable rage cost and some level of stacking would be good, can live with it on the gcd if it felt like using it actually accomplished something

silk portal Oct 8, 2018, 11:00 AM

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Spell Deflection? Instead of Reflecting it, just reduce the damage

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:00 AM

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exactly

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my opinio nis more like

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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I didn't touch on the cap in the post, but yeah I should have.

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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ur better off pressing revenge and actually killing stuff

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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It's pretty bleh

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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revenge feels poop

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imo

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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it's like 1.5x an auto attack

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to each target

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not really a big difference in most cases.

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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SR already reduces the damage 🤔 @silk portal

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 11:01 AM

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If it isn't free I'm going to IP instead.

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:02 AM

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both rage spenders feel shitty to use

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love our class blizz

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 11:02 AM

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yeah getting rid of rage just feels weird

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in dungeons when you have a lot to spend

silk portal Oct 8, 2018, 11:03 AM

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@stone crag What I mean is replace SR with let's call it Spell Deflection, increase the magic reduction effect by ~10-15% or let it scale depending on how much rage you dump on it

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:03 AM

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idd

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thats my main issue

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i feel like im overcappin rage at times

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they might aswell get rid of whole rage mechanic now.

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 11:03 AM

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Better make your dump button free 90% of the time 🤔

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*in dungeons

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:03 AM

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bring back heroic strike? xD

tall wadi Oct 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

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the solution is not IP off gcd, it's revenge off gcd

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glowy brain intensifies

hot locust Oct 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

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Woah

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

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that would be a brilant idea tbh

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brilliant*

silk portal Oct 8, 2018, 11:04 AM

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Remove GCD 🤔

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 11:05 AM

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cant wait to have revenge off gcd and pull 30 tiny spam hitting mobs

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endless spam revenge for free off gcd

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 11:31 AM

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how many of you played vanilla/tbc warrior

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that was spam

dull pilot Oct 8, 2018, 11:31 AM

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any news on buffs coming in 8.1 not seen anything in about a week

stone crag Oct 8, 2018, 11:31 AM

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nope

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if it's not on mmoc/wowhead then ¯_(ツ)_/¯

jovial forge Oct 8, 2018, 11:38 AM

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played nost for alittle tanking is by far the worst role in vanilla imo

marsh beacon Oct 8, 2018, 11:53 AM

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i played nostralia for the last 12 months (australian nost server) tanking in vanilla was so fun. like completely shit, but everything was shit in vanilla. tanking in modern wow is a fundamentally different game. its taken me a long time to come to this conclusion, but modern tanking is a better game too

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 12:15 PM

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maintenance on monday bois

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is this it

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is this 370 cache azerite

oblique wolf Oct 8, 2018, 12:15 PM

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didn't they say that would be 8.1?

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 12:16 PM

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nah

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they said it'd be in a hotfix in the 'immediate future'

oblique wolf Oct 8, 2018, 12:16 PM

#

ah, dope

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:16 PM

#

In b4 battle pet improvements/tuning

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

they really should put a battle pet boss in a raid some day

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

Battle pet dungeons require more decisionmaking than azerite

#

Not even kidding

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

they're pretty tough without a really comprehensive library of pets

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

Yea

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

Listen guys

#

Idgaf about battle pets

#

Or gnomes

#

Same thing rly

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:18 PM

#

Gottem

jovial forge Oct 8, 2018, 12:19 PM

#

YOUVE BEEN GNOMMMEEEED

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:19 PM

#

📎 image0-34.jpg

jovial forge Oct 8, 2018, 12:19 PM

#

📎 9k.png

#

HAHAHA ME OLD CHUMP

knotty ermine Oct 8, 2018, 12:19 PM

#

I actually have a gnome batle pet

#

so

#

You're not wrong

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

does dbm let you know when it's time for a tank swap?

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

Ya

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

Ye it yells

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

kk

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

If ur a prot warrior it tells u to swap to brm when u zone into uldir

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

kek

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

😂

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

Hue hue hue

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

In a serious note

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

#

(tbf uldir is relatively friendly to us)

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

Don't rely on dbm for swaps

jovial forge Oct 8, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

Dbm is a few seconds off

#

for swaps

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:23 PM

#

very well

#

time to embarass myself in lfr

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:23 PM

#

Lfr is an embarassment to begin with

summer kestrel Oct 8, 2018, 12:25 PM

#

Queue as tank

#

Switch to dps without anyone knowing

#

Thats lfr

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:25 PM

#

only reason im bothering with lfr is just to practice tanking

#

lol

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:25 PM

#

^this is one of reasons

#

Its so bad

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:25 PM

#

F

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 12:26 PM

#

When ppl do shit like that

#

Ok discord

#

Work pls ty

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 12:53 PM

#

wonderful

#

near top dps as tank on lfr

#

on bosses

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 12:53 PM

#

just goes to show how OP prot really is

#

Kappa

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 12:56 PM

#

put IP off CD and i will call it OP

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:05 PM

#

🏏 🐴 💀

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:26 PM

#

Put the skull before the horse duh

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

So are prot warrs viable now ?

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

at what skill level of play?

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

Absolute beginner

mellow bridge Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

yes

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

they are.... but very punishing for every mistake

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

#

In tanking

#

played rogue and warlock for 12 years. Recently leveled a dps warr but i didn't like it so I am thinking of tanking.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

"viable"

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

wanna start tanking? go paladin

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

Or Blood DK

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

Well my warrior is 120 alraedy so xD

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

Been leveling a Blood DK over the past week.

#

Having a lot of fun with it.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

Uh, or he could play a warrior, and use his brain, and not be bad

#

Brain + Not bad = can play prot warrior

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:30 PM

#

The fact that they came here is a good start

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:30 PM

#

^

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:30 PM

#

@woeful otter every tank class will be viable at the level you're considering. Start with the guide in the pins and hit us up here if anything doesn't make sense

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:30 PM

#

I will agree with that though.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:31 PM

#

Every tank class is "viable" Other tanks offer more forgiveness for making a mistake

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:31 PM

#

yeah I just want to start with some heroic dungeons and maybe m+0

#

Not ghuun mythic xD

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:31 PM

#

Just a suggestion tho, don't preface questions asking if we're viable cuz it's our collective trigger word lol

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:31 PM

#

Everything is viable in heroics and m0s

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:31 PM

#

ya... go for it

#

remember something... overextend with Revenge -> rage starve -> dead

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

Ok. THe other day I was doing KR +9 with a prot warrior who kept dying on each pack so I was like hmnnn?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

Unless you're considering going into the MDI, Prot warrior is fine

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

Yep

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

Sounds like a bad warrior

#

or a horrible healer

#

or both

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

@woeful otter that's a bad warrior. It doesn't mean they're all that bad.

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

He was getting one shot in the room after first boss in KR

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:32 PM

#

KR +9 has some rough trash

#

But is completely doable

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:33 PM

#

Basically the issue with protection warriors, is we either do our CD rotations correctly, and take far less damage than other tanks

#

or we fall over dead

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:33 PM

#

I am reading this now. : https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9ma5lg/protection_warrior_analysis_community_perception/?utm_source=reddit-android

r/wow - Protection Warrior Analysis: Community Perception and Issu...

825 votes and 143 comments so far on Reddit

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:33 PM

#

The only thing in KR (Insert key # Here) that bugs me, is Zul

#

But that dude rips through nearly any tank

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:34 PM

#

If they die to one hit as soon as they charge in then they're not using avatar prepull or, if it's down, they're not intercepting an ally before charging in. Never go in without shield block

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:34 PM

#

Oh...reddit

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:34 PM

#

Don't read that lol

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:34 PM

#

The epitome of collective intelligence on the internet

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:35 PM

#

"Ignore Pain On The GCD Makes the Class Unplayable. Or It's Useless."

#

#IPOffGCD! pls Blizzardi

#

so much punish for failing to press the right button... 😦

woeful otter Oct 8, 2018, 1:36 PM

#

lol

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:37 PM

#

Like, I stopped reading at "Warriors have Threat Issues"

#

actually I stopped reading most of the words way eariler

#

but "Warriors have threat issues is when I closed the tab"

#

TFW we do more damage than DPS

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:37 PM

#

^

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:38 PM

#

ALthoguh going back to it, "No self healing is what makes us weak"

#

Yeah, no thats not it

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:38 PM

#

Then you're going to feel stupid when I point out that the 'Warriors have threat issues' is under 'Exaggerations and Community perception Problems'

#

Meaning that they are not actually issues, just things people in the community believe

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 1:38 PM

#

Well this post is perfectly outlines prot problems, including public perception

#

You obv did not read it

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

Except

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

Except

#

You didn't read it.

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

@uneven mason

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

"Ignore Pain being on the GCD sucks, I absolutely agree."

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

None of those are actually our problems?

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

something i can agree

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

You either trolling or not playing prot warrior

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

The community perception is a problem

#

I'll go with that one

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:40 PM

#

You could have said that than saying 'lol I didn't read it' then proved that you didn't read it by going 'Lol we don't have threat issues but this article says we does'

#

Instead of acting like someone who believes they know something, how about stepping outside of your 'comfort zone' and reading something before passing judgement on it?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

Its the issues with the headlines IMO

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

Wait hold up@

#

Why are we taking dumps on Lala’s post when it’s actually not bad?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

The first 3 parts

#

Its fine,

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

Griff

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

its the comments

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

I think it's a great article so far.

#

I'm just pointing out something the 'Big guy' said earlier because he's all defensive.

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:43 PM

#

u could say he is in a .... defensive stance

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:43 PM

#

My soul hurts

#

I miss stances...

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

the community pcerception is a problem because most prot warriors are useless.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

I mean, do you want to go over it? Rage generation being problematic, the only time that happens is when we're forced out of melee range (can't generate resources) we have to think ahead for these situations and sit on a triggered rage use.

#

Most folks who play them yes

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

I finished reading it and I agree with all of it except rage starvation in single target. The mother logs they linked, I looked at them and the prot warrior used intercept twice in a five minute encounter.

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

u can be a idiot and roll DK, plays 20 times better than average warrior

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

That's so much wasted rage

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:44 PM

#

Yeah, I noticed that too.

#

I generally don't have rage issues.

#

So, I can't 100% agree with it.

#

I can -kind of- understand

#

If you're looking at it from like

#

A Legion stand point

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:45 PM

#

The dependancy on CDs is a juggled one, right, that is our niche, we have 2 major 2 minor CDs

#

other tanks have 1 minor 1 major

#

we're given our CDs twice as fast

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:45 PM

#

Because our rage gen for the last raid was....Stupid

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:45 PM

#

We don't have anything to spend that much rage on either

#

like, there are a FEW points (Zul bleed) where I'm hitting IP every other GCD

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:46 PM

#

@uneven mason he mentions "warrior threat issues" in the section where he debunks incorrect community assumptions. He was arguing that warriors have no threat issues.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:46 PM

#

Out side of that, if we increases our RPS to even 12 (50% gain) we'll be capped nearly all the itme

#

I did admit I stopped reading it~

#

in like the same line

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

Prot need major changes, rage is horribly tuned overall.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

0_o

#

I love how prot plays

finite stag Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

The first sentence of the 'Threat Issues' paragraph:

Warriors currently having threat issues even on skittish weeks are either running a sub-optimal talent build and playing poorly or are so undergeared compared to the dps players that they probably shouldn't be in the run they are in anyways.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

we could get away with something that scaled with # of targets

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

i love how u can hardly spend ur rage fast enough if u pull enough

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:47 PM

#

The formatting is weird, but it's split into "intro", "what the real issues are", "what the community exaggerates" (where the threat part is), and then some stuff about suggestions

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

increase IP from 3.5 AP coefficient to 5, give us T21 set bonus that buffed IP when you block attacks

#

boom

#

Warrior's pushing keys

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

and IP off GCD

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

Sense would like a word with you

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

Sense is the Demigod of warriors

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

Fucking read the article. We don't need IP off the GCD. That's not the problem

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

For the record I just don't read Reddit posts anymore lol

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:48 PM

#

"the problem"

#

like theres only one

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

That's a good God damn article though D:

#

It's a quality post

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

Thats not the problem, but would make a nice quality of life change

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

I'm assuming it covers everything we circle the wagons in here daily then?

dense flame Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

It’s pretty concise

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

I mean, you could read it and find out

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 1:49 PM

#

My bad for telling the new guy not to read it then

#

Guilty there

dense flame Oct 8, 2018, 1:50 PM

#

I mean I think it expands on some of the core play of how war is at the same time as discuss the reason why it’s unforgiving for poor play.

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:50 PM

#

Ok, I have one more gripe. They say that SB CD being 18s base is a problem, but with decent haste levels it goes down to 12s easily.

#

Also, isn't warrior rage gain from being attacked capped per second?

#

How much rage can we gain from being attacked every second?

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:51 PM

#

SB base cd is stupid cuz it more or less forces ppl to go for haste .

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

the Rage from being attacked is capped at 1 trigger per second

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

have fun tanking any raid encounter with base cd

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

so at most you gain 2RPS

kind urchin Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

With enough haste to bring sb down to 12 seconds you'd still have large gaps after the 3rd charge spent.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

So finally just read the whole thing

#

Pretty much agree with everything Lala says

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

I dont want to use intercept to get rage. If players forced to use gap closer to generate resource, that is terrible design.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:52 PM

#

@waxen talon We're not forced into haste, any more than any other class is forced to take their optimal stat?

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

Into the fray and quick navigation and rezans help a lot with haste. With quick nav and rezans I can go from a 14s shield block CD to 12

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

well

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

Except for the whole “nerf anger management”

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

shield block uptime is nearly mandatory

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

Don’t do that

#

Just make it baseline

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

its not like sotr or ironfur is on that level.

#

make anger management baseline so we can get new talents within the next decade.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

But its not, I have not run into any situation in raiding where I'm struggling to have a block in place.

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

Griff, nerfing AM but making is baseline would be pretty cool. And it's maybe the only way to release us from the shackles of the meta build and deafening crasg

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:53 PM

#

well

#

forcing high levels of haste is forcing a certain type of talent points and making everything even more simplified

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:54 PM

#

@vagrant cape tbh I don’t think it’s powerful enough to warrant a nerf if made baseline

#

It’s just too good to not take over the other options

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:54 PM

#

all stats are fairly balanced for dungeon perspective with current setup

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:54 PM

#

But that doesn’t mean that the way it works is too good

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:54 PM

#

but if u look at raiding its stupid how much haste u need.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:54 PM

#

Wrong

#

You don’t NEED only haste gear to raid

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

obviously not

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

Does it help? Sure

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

but theres a certain talent 1st tier that will be mandatory for a decade

#

cuz of thaaat.

#

have fun executing any high uptime raid fight with 18sec base cd

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

I mean hello why wouldn’t you take your best secondary

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

I'm going to shit on one big part of Lala's post there

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

It’s not like the other two options are all that interesting

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:55 PM

#

Legendary bracers effect wouldn't compete with Bolster

#

AT ALL

#

Lego bracers would be complete ass

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

omg crit + mastery build wouldnt be interesting, lets make all classes haste build

small flicker Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

safeguard for offtanking? worth?

waxen talon Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

genius logic.

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

depends arcaneprofet

#

Its a handy thing to have

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

If you have a fight where safeguard is useful then you probably shouldn’t be offtanking and you should be in DPS spec

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:56 PM

#

if you have the budget for it

#

lol

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

@small flicker depends on the fight. It redirects damage to you so if you're both taking heavy damage (like on vectis) it won't really help much

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

Like I said

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

But on a fight like taloc or mother yeah, go for it

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

If it’s useful (M Taloc) then you shouldn’t be in tank spec lol

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

Even zek

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

Since if your OTing on Taloc or mother

#

you should be in DPS spec

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

^

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:57 PM

#

they're single tankable

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

Fair enough

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

in HC

#

at least

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

Even in M taloc is

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

Yeah, I was talking mythic

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

Like the idea that the adds live long enough to melee

#

is gigglebits

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

Just go Arms and swap to d stance and soak blobs in d stance

#

And get the extra execute damage

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:58 PM

#

yeah

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

If your guild does the "everyone cross over the course of 5 seconds" strat there's lots of stuff to melee

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

since Taloc spends a huge portion of the fight under 35%

#

Sweeping + Bladestorm - WEDONE

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

Safeguard is a nice idea

#

But fails in practice

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

if it was the old safeguard

#

(Vigilience?)

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

Maybe if we had gladiator stance 🙃

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

where it was just a flat out 30% damage reduction buff

#

that warriors could cast

#

and didn't transfer damage

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 1:59 PM

#

dont randomly intervene your co tank

empty nacelle Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

and made taunt have 0 cd

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

if your healers arent prepared

#

chances are you wont get healed up quickly

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

Yeah I <3'd using that as a external in BRF

#

esp on mythic Oregorger

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

What else is on the safeguard row? Crackling thunder and bounding? I would maybe consider taking safeguard on underrot for the bloodswarmers

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

I could see it now go through the 3 hit combo of Zek, intercept tour co-tank and die

#

@vagrant cape ITF and punish

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

I do that all the time on HC

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:00 PM

#

What?!?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

wat

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

No. No way.

#

That's just wrong

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

@chilly brook IV is on the 15 tier with ITF and Pun

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

i use crackling for all m+

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

Oh rip

#

I’m dumb

#

Sorry in class

#

Yea it’s crackling and bounding

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:02 PM

#

I really like crackling in most dungeons but I'm not sure if there's any spot in underrot where I feel I need it

#

Oh, the 2nd boss for grabbing ticks maybe

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:02 PM

#

I personally see crackling in dungeons as a bad idea

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:02 PM

#

Why is that?

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:02 PM

#

But tbh if the mob is that close you’ll probably pull it anyways

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:03 PM

#

depends on the week

#

I don't htink you understand how large the area CT gives you is 😛

#

its like Starfall big

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:03 PM

#

Yeah, facepull range is definitely larger than TC with crackling

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:03 PM

#

About the only time I take crackling is on Zul 🙃

#

Gotta pad them meters

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:03 PM

#

Freehold and Motherlorde

#

nope

#

other places, sure

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:03 PM

#

Yeah, a 50% radius increase actually increases the area by 2.25 time

#

Oh yeah, I forgot about pulling yellow named mobs

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:04 PM

#

That too

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:04 PM

#

It's pretty dope on M Zek

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:04 PM

#

And tbh I like having a faster CD on leap

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:05 PM

#

Did you just use "dope" in 2018?

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:05 PM

#

Btw that article was good

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:05 PM

#

I like it. You got moxy, kid.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:05 PM

#

Depends on what you mean by dope, my group definitely wouldn’t think so when I break CC every two seconds

#

Who doesn’t use dope?

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:05 PM

#

Why would u break CC?

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:06 PM

#

If I'm gonna break cc, it's because I used heroic throw right as someone cast poly, not because TC radius is too large

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:06 PM

#

The caster mobs on Zek

#

They’re close enough to hit at least two with one TC

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:07 PM

#

I have a psychic ability to use throw on whichever mob is about to be cced

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:07 PM

#

If you're standing halfway between

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:07 PM

#

And if I’m being honest, if I have avatar up, I’m gonna do it

#

On purpose

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

I wish we had a visual indicator for our abilities. I still have no idea what the revenge or Shockwave aoes look like

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

Def not breaking CCs on purpose in mythic lol

#

Void bolt hurts

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

I’m a rude boi

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

That's not a dope way to use TC

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

Lol

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

B more dope

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

For shame.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

But muh parse

vagrant cape Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

#

But muh kill

#

In heroic, fine

#

But in mythic, people want them rings

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:09 PM

#

Well I mean within reason

#

Probably shouldn’t do it in Mythic

#

Then again in Mythic parsing should be the last of your concern this early on

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:10 PM

#

early? isnt 8.1 coming next month?

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:10 PM

#

Doubt it

cinder nova Oct 8, 2018, 2:15 PM

#

After a prog kill I parse.

#

But I usually do my best to parse without changing the strat we're using or fucking with anything

#

Non-invasive parsing

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 2:19 PM

#

Meh I just parse from the start let my healers cry 🙃

#

Ignore pain? Nah just Revenge

#

Yes I’m kidding

inner trail Oct 8, 2018, 2:20 PM

#

the button even says 'Ignore' on it, why would you press it

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 2:20 PM

#

zzz

hasty sapphire Oct 8, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

i parsed world 1st on Vectis in dmg and last in Heal

#

🤔

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 2:37 PM

#

Ok

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:37 PM

#

We're pushing M Zek without a 3rd add phase so my parse is doomed anyway.

fathom marten Oct 8, 2018, 2:38 PM

#

Have they announced when 8.1 will release?

#

Need to get AOTC on my monk and seeing how much time I have

small flicker Oct 8, 2018, 2:38 PM

#

my fucking shield keeps becoming broken. havent had this problem with any other class as i usually dps. wtf is this

fathom marten Oct 8, 2018, 2:38 PM

#

Or are we just guesstimating Nov timeframe

ember arrow Oct 8, 2018, 2:39 PM

#

@small flicker repair it

small flicker Oct 8, 2018, 2:39 PM

#

like ill die get battle rez'd and its broken

tight tree Oct 8, 2018, 2:40 PM

#

well you block with it, makes sense

steel mauve Oct 8, 2018, 2:41 PM

#

Chances are aotc wont go away woth 8.1

#

Emerald nightmare didnt when nighthold came out, i believe it only went away when the next tier came out

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 2:43 PM

#

AotC EN definitely went away when NH opened?

steel mauve Oct 8, 2018, 2:43 PM

#

Thought they combined them into same tier

#

Guess it would make sense though since i know nighthold didnt go away until tomb came out even though tov came out before tomb

tulip arch Oct 8, 2018, 2:46 PM

#

Nighthold and ToV were together

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 2:46 PM

#

it goes away with the opening of the next tier

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 2:48 PM

#

Uldir is our introductory raid, which is the first half of T22 if they follow previous resoning.

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 2:49 PM

#

Except we're not getting a ToV raid this go around

#

Until after zuldazar or w/e

#

With the stormsong 2 boss thang

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

yeh

#

pretty sure AOTC ends w/ Zuldazar raid release.

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

Can someone tell me in what situation does it become better to gem/enchant anything other than haste? I noticed the top m+ prot warrior on my server is full mastery, including weapon enchant. Does mastery pull ahead in very high dmg situations? I'd have thought haste would still bring more overall

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 2:58 PM

#

uhhh

#

no

#

always haste

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 2:59 PM

#

I thought haste was #1 all the way with our current gear limitations, just didn't know why this prot war had full mastery, he was over 1.4k raider.io score

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

new meta (?)

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

to be fair, the gap in stats isn't huge

#

could be they're more comfortable with mastery

rich pike Oct 8, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

@fallow mural can u link the warrior your talking about

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

Haste main goal is to reduce CDs,
If fights Last only so long that you don't need them i8suppose6mast is better

#

Also if you kite à lot it has less value

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

For M+ I could see some sort of argument being made for mastery due to the scaling of AP and block without shield block

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

For m+ it makes sense

#

Not sure it is actually better but it makes sense

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

I mean, haste is going to give you a relative DPS increase due to speeding up the GCD

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Bowlby#season=season-bfa-1 is the character in question, I felt odd linking another players toon

Raider.IO

WoW Rankings - Raider.IO

World of Warcraft Raid and Mythic Plus Rankings

#

@rich pike

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

But stats are not going to make or break a prot warrior if they're executing their abilities properly

rich pike Oct 8, 2018, 3:03 PM

#

Ty

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

you could gem for crit as long as you're not a flipperhanded monkey with your CDs

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

I was just wondering if there was some niche situation I wasn't aware of where your priorities change. I'm getting to the point where I want to push a lot more

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

I'd gem crit for m+ without hesitation though

#

For raid : haste

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

Nah, no change, stat priority holds, but isn't such a huge thing that its going to have a severe impact on your performance

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:05 PM

#

In m+ du to the Small downtime between pulls other stats can7be usefull

#

But I'd still go for haste

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

Stats are basically "there" for prot, haste makes our rotations more forgiving by doing the same thing all the time (its consistent) and also synergizes well with our meta (only) talent build due to the faster GCDs and rage spend.

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:06 PM

#

I don't know that I'll ever not crave the gcd reduction from haste, even though I always loved mastery stacking

rich pike Oct 8, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

with into the fray hes at about 25% he might have found his over all mitigation was better with higher mastery

neon tangle Oct 8, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

@fallow mural I just want you to know that despite gearing/enchanting for haste... my crit rating is still higher than that guys mastery

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:07 PM

#

^^^

#

I think crit is also my highest 2ndary as well

neon tangle Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

It’s not really intentional, just the drops I’ve gotten

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

debating trying versatility gem/enchant stack.

#

see how that works mythic+

neon tangle Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

Crit has been pretty decent in m+ so far

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

ontop of jew howls WF use

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

I forget, does mastery have diminishing returns? Maybe his gear is just lacking too much mastery that it has a much higher value

neon tangle Oct 8, 2018, 3:08 PM

#

It made necrotic pretty silly easy

#

Stacks dropped off bosses without kiting, etc

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

haste will only affect mitigation through IP for the forst minute (ar about 1 min) of a fight. because you'll be rolling all CDs
in M+ only the trash hit hard, and they don't really last more than a minute.
Mastery mitigate damage trhough IP (bonus AP) and block (bonus critblock chance), so for the first minute it's pretty good

junior ivy Oct 8, 2018, 3:10 PM

#

is wow down

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

Down to clown

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

Maintenance

#

until 9 am PST

astral crystal Oct 8, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

read the big purple box

#

orange*

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

@fallow mural Mastery itself doesn't, no. It's actually the opposite, the more mastery you have the better it is per point.

Current Vers > Mastery, but later in the expansion that will flip as Mastery outscales Vers (Vers also gets better the more you have).

signal plover Oct 8, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

📎 20181008_101221.jpg

#

Aww damn

#

Too late

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

😂

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:13 PM

#

So it's looking even harder to justify stacking mastery this early, unless it is just a personal comfort thing

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:13 PM

#

Yeah, stacking Mastery makes no sense.

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

fallow mural Oct 8, 2018, 3:14 PM

#

Well whatever works I guess. I'm still sticking with all the haste I can get for now.

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:14 PM

#

You could argue for stacking Vers right now for a "passive" build or whatever, but not mastery

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:20 PM

#

🤔

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 3:21 PM

#

🤔

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:24 PM

#

how much %critblock do you get/mastery point?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:24 PM

#

I mean

#

I can think of one reason to use mastery enchants/gems

#

on my server for a while mastery stuff was going for like, pennys

#

while Haste was like, 3,000 for a single gem/ring enchant

#

But in the end - going one way or the other isn't going to make/break a warrior

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:25 PM

#

@fierce juniper but what about M+ where blockable melee comprises most of the damage intake

#

Does vers still outscale mastery as of now?

#

And if so how do we know

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:27 PM

#

the question is : how much % (vast/vers) does 100 points give

#

or 40points like a gem

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:28 PM

#

yes, we know

#

85 versatility = 1 % damage, healing and 0.5 % damage reduction
72 mastery = 1 % mastery (= 1 % attack power, 0.5 % block chance, 1.5 % critical block chance)

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:31 PM

#

@old zephyr 100 Mastery is ~2.08% additional Crit block chance.

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:31 PM

#

2.08*

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:32 PM

#

5000 mastery to cap, lets do this boys

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:33 PM

#

whoops, yeah 2.08

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:36 PM

#

thx

#

with those numbers I'm pretty sure Mast is ahead of vers

#

100 vers give about 0,6% DR in a vacum (at 0vers)
while 100 mast give about (2,08 * 0,66 = 1,2 %) DR at 0% critblock

#

During the 100% block frame

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

vers functions passively, is not subject to RNG and fucntions against all types of damage.

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

the key is it works VS throw rock

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

^^^

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

@old zephyr that's ignoring a lot of factors and is pretty inaccurate

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:39 PM

#

and "Shoot"

#

So the reason why mastery is behind vers is the same reason why Crit is behind haste

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

@grim prism
At current gear levels, if you assume 100% blockable damage, Mastery is better per point in terms of DR, however, it's sorta the same situation as Crit (where crit is the best stat per point in terms of DR), in that Mastery is RNG, which makes it unreliable.
So right now there is no reason to value Mastery over Vers.

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:40 PM

#

I just want blizzard to explain how I cant block throw rock

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:41 PM

#

Or anything for that matter

#

like, I get it, Flamestrike, MAYBE NOT

#

But Fireball

#

I can see that fucker incoming

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:41 PM

#

i know background wise but really it is called fucking throw rock not throw boulder or Armor Piercing Bullet

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:41 PM

#

it is RNG and i'll never get Mast over vers (or haste) for raid content when every hit does count.
for Dungeon whn I'm getting bashed by 5+ dudes the RNG factor start to be less relevent

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:41 PM

#

Same thing with SHoot and throw rock - I can see him aiming at me, telling me the giant slab of metal on my arm won't stop most of that?

#

@old zephyr RNG is RNG, if you spread it out over long enough time periods it averages out (where we start seeing the true value) however tank health has to be taken inside of the context of damage windows, which are generally short (such as our EHP time )

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:42 PM

#

does that mean tha I always want to get as much mast as possible over other stats : NO
would that makes sense to me for specific content : Yes

celest rose Oct 8, 2018, 3:43 PM

#

but is blocking or crit blocking more white hits going to help against the damage that is actually life threatening to you?

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:43 PM

#

it is, but its still RNG

celest rose Oct 8, 2018, 3:43 PM

#

vers just works

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:43 PM

#

I feel like mastery being more DR per point than vers against blockable damage becomes very significant in the specific context of M+

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

same why Parry (crit) is extremely strong, even though it doesn't work vs boss mechanics, they all add into damage smoothing.

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

vers > mastery.

#

throw rock and shoot

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

@old zephyr
If you block all damage you take, mastery is the best stat indeed. 😃
But that's obviously not quite the case in reality

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

it keeps you higher HP so when the fucking MM burn your skin off, it takes them .1 seconds longer

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

You're not wrong Balsaq

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

Imagine doing double pulls or some shit, you are getting hit so frequently, rng averages out

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

it can be applicable to M+

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

@grim prism Right, but by that logic you should stack crit.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

Even if not all damage is blockable, youre looking at 60-90% of all damage being blockable in +

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

once his blocks are down he just kites

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

Mastery is more DR per point on average.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

I heard people were doing that; is that something you guys have looked into the viability of?

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

Also, parrying shit like bleeds on KR its amazing

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

In M+ specifically ofc

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

Crit and mastery are probably the 2 best stats in M+.

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

i have like 20% parry without even trying to stack crit

#

its nice

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

same.

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:45 PM

#

that was kinda my point meiffert 😃

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

i might have to regear my prot set since i hardly tank in raids anymore O_O

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:46 PM

#

Idk man If I gotta rely on a 20% chance to parry damage or a flat % damage reduc I think I would rather go with the flat damage reduc

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

The reason why it's not a "bigger deal" is that you can rarely choose what stats you have (you can swap around 2 ring enchants, maybe a couple gems and 1 or 2 items where you have multiple choices of the same item level).
At the end of the day, the stats are close enough in general that it's not really worth worrying about

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

But if 90% of the intake is subject to those chances, it quickly averages out @thorn yarrow

#

Hence why I brought it up

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:47 PM

#

same. flat damage redux life + hyuge damage increases

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

right so then it doesnt matter then at that point if it evens out then

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

I mean yeah not really, armor is still priority 1

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Stacking crit and mastery you might eventually reach a point where like 7/10 hits taken are crit blocked or parried

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Armor is worse than secondaries

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

But we havent had a real theorycraft discussion in here in months

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

I just go with the "equip your highest ilvl" tactic

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

Armor, str, stam, etc

thin mortar Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

mastery will be OP when they change it to effect IP. js

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:48 PM

#

is Parry and Block still roll separately or at the same time

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

it already affects IP.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

I meant as a generalization for primaries on armoe pieces

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

I already have something of like 56% armor an with the patch adding another 13%ish Im not gona sweat armor

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

through AP increases.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

My bad

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

@thorn yarrow The patch rolled out already

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:49 PM

#

Unless we are now suggesting that secondaries are more important than ilvl on armor pieces

#

Which contradicts the IV guide and everything we've been saying all.expac

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

I don't think anyone is suggesting that.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

Okay

#

Just wanted to doublecheck lol

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

I think what he said was : more secondaries budget is better that more armor

lusty elbow Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

i tank naked at least that way my repair bills are less

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

on a 1 to 1 point basis

#

but since more ilvl = more secondaries

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:50 PM

#

Yeah I shouldnt have just said armor to refer to ilvl

#

It was my mistake

junior ivy Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

it amazes me that people know so much about this stat stuff

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

@grim prism
How does it contradict anything?
Higher item level pieces have more secondaries 😃

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

Lol

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

😄

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

so yeah , 5 ilvl for a socket may be worth

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:51 PM

#

Question : does anyone roll with punish on fetid?

#

no.

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

nah I like my haste too much haha

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

ITF always best

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

Because itf gives 2 stacks

vast ridge Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

Do strength flasks increase our survivability more than stam flasks?

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

yes.

#

I'm OT btw

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

unless you need that 3% to survive

#

yes STR is awesome

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

pins

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:52 PM

#

10% haste > 3% damage reduction especially since no real raid damage should be recking people

#

thrash should have the focus of Cds

junior ivy Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

whyyy do i have 3 emissaries today..

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

if on the off chance you or the MT messes up

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

@vast ridge you switch to a dps spec to use cauldron/feast

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

on fetid you can taunt if you have no Def CDs remaining

#

/s

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

I just call for external

vast ridge Oct 8, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

Yeah got it. I saw in the guide we use str. Just wasn’t sure if that was purely a mitigation decision or a combination of mitigation and dps

#

Thanks for the answer

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:54 PM

#

both.

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:54 PM

#

@sick sentinel ya I dont even have to call it our RLhealer holds control of CD call outs an hes insane on it

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:54 PM

#

more damage means less fight time, so more mana availlable to heal you, so more "mitigation"

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:55 PM

#

Boss dies faster=dead boss deals 0 damage=100% damage reduction

#

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 3:55 PM

#

:mindblown:

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:55 PM

#

but I like the floor it keeps me warm with all my blood 100% safety net

#

QQ

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 3:55 PM

#

huh

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:56 PM

#

bad joke, on topic same rule always applies to dps if ur dead we lost ur dps doesnt matter if u wanted to squeak in alil more dps before a /kill mechanic or something that does tremendous damage

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:56 PM

#

dead boss can't melt steal shield

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:57 PM

#

In terms of pure survivability, at current HP levels, a stam flask is probably a bit better, but there's no reason to give up the damage that a Str flask provides.

junior ivy Oct 8, 2018, 3:57 PM

#

whoa. whoa. wait. a stam flask

#

i did not know this

#

thats actually useful information to me

#

i've been buying strength flasks

#

i should switch to stam?

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

only 2 fights I use it on is Zul/Fetid but I can afford it so switching for 2 fights is meh

#

could be wrong but eh

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

erm I mean

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

The DR of the STR one helps your healer heal you back

#

while stam doesn't

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

@junior ivy No, use strength flasks.

junior ivy Oct 8, 2018, 3:58 PM

#

oh, okay

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 3:59 PM

#

you get more EHP from stam flask, but STR flask will give you more over the course of the figh

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 3:59 PM

#

with Fetid it should matter the boss isnt gona ever last long enough to bat an eyelash at is my only excuse, even if its a poor one

#

shouldnt*

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 3:59 PM

#

So, even on Zul (this is limited to my experience in HC) but the stronger IPs do more for me over average and within the window where I'm taking ticks than the extra health

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

if you get trashed do death the stam flask is not ood enough to save your life i'm afraid

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

@uneven mason we have 2 pally healers an he only lasts for 4 swaps an we BoP the seconds set

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

Ok

#

Its still going to make abigger difference than having a bigger health pool

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 4:00 PM

#

on zul I use stam (and stam pot LOL) because I don't thin the IP buff is good enough

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 4:01 PM

#

since the bigger health pool literally only matters when you're full health and start to take damage

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:01 PM

#

the first 2 we just take 4 pop Cds(heroic)atm an it just doesnt do enough

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 4:01 PM

#

but Zul's a bitch

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 4:01 PM

#

I take 4 stacks on HC Zul AMA

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:01 PM

#

my OT is a blood DK an his mobility is terrible so I always ended up take 4 anyway

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

#

@uneven mason That's not really true. Stam is a direct increase to survivability, in the same way that DR is, it's just that you have to be healed more (which usually is irrelevant unless you're stacking stam).

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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which is sad cause we have 2 hpriest that could just yank him back into the fight after he drops his load

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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But the Rets in my group are not very good with their BoP

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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oof

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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I suppose, I tried so many pulls with using stam/stam

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because I was thinking more HP would help

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and I've since had much better results using str/str

old zephyr Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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more HPs means less overheal as well

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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like I said str is clearly better I just justify it with the way we run it an Im stubborn

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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lifegrips have to be saved for deathwish

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on zul

uneven mason Oct 8, 2018, 4:02 PM

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Since its not just his DoT but the fact that you're dealing with his melee as wel

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:03 PM

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@raven kernel maybe but when u run 7 hunters and 3 priests +2 shamans I mean....

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:03 PM

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what are you referencing hunters and shams for

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:03 PM

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dispells on the adds cause the fear no?

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or have I just been completely stupid an misreading

shut rapids Oct 8, 2018, 4:04 PM

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Is there a way to see the reflected spells and their damage in details?

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:04 PM

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thats not why you wanna lifegrip

abstract pebble Oct 8, 2018, 4:04 PM

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So am I seeing that with the Prot buffs that came down Prot is a average M+ tank now and a very good raid tank?

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:04 PM

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no. dispels kill the adds. being around the adds gets you feared, and has nothing to do with DW and lifegrip

raven kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:04 PM

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you lifegrip 1 of the deathwish guys so you stagger the dispel on them

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else you chunk the raid if you have to dispel both together

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:05 PM

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lmao jokes on me I never even thought about that

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:05 PM

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I'm giving us a good rep!!

📎 unknown.png

fierce juniper Oct 8, 2018, 4:05 PM

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@abstract pebble No. We're in the same situation that we've been in. The buffs "helped" but they don't fix the core problems with the spec.
That's not to say we're bad, just unforgiving.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:06 PM

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I feel great 🙃

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:06 PM

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Me too

thorn yarrow Oct 8, 2018, 4:06 PM

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o well food for thought I enjoyed this yall take care

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:07 PM

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👋🏻

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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Its been unusually constructive in here lately

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Is everybody okay?

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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Too many smarts

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Not enough dums

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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solid mist Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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acceptance is the last stage of grief

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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:yamoriEW:

abstract pebble Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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I can help with that.... Go Trump!

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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Well it helps when we don’t have people in here every two seconds trying to tell us we’re terrible

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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Trump 2020

orchid plover Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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#MakeProtectionGreatAgain!

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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Trump is also smart.

weary notch Oct 8, 2018, 4:08 PM

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/UNSUBSCRIBE

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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Prot has being doing exceptional lately I feel

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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/emigrate :ablobsweats:

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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outsmarting and fooling the big media dumb.

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😄

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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With all the gear people have been getting now

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Prot us solid

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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Prot shines at high gear.

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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@grim prism
The reason we don't theorycraft basic things like DR % from stats is that those questions are already mostly answered.

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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Is ecen

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EVEN

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:09 PM

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this isn't a secret.

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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I enjoy my warrior far more than my dk

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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Well yeah, but it's still nice to talk about from time to time

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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If only we had like a grip

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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As opposed to just grousing about GCD changes that happened three months ago

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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play DK then.

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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Like a hookshot...like in zelda

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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I’ve been gearing my DH

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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Iv seen raveger vortex mention every now and then

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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But I always feel so squishy playing anything else

abstract pebble Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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I love my Warrior for deeps, but I have been preferring my Brewmaster for tanking, BRM feels far more forgiving.

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:10 PM

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Or if our heroic throw would just silence

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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Because it is

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Hard to mess up when you’re AM is up 100% of the time

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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Bahhh

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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And your mitigation mechanic is literally just get hit in the face

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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Dh is the squishiest

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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'more easy'.

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:11 PM

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Been playing mine

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Getting beat like a bongo drum

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:12 PM

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TBH bear isn’t any better lol

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:12 PM

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And the HP recovery isnt the same as dk obviously

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:12 PM

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It can be up there

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:12 PM

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If you have tons of mobs yeah

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Spirit bomb is nice

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:12 PM

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Had a few pulls of 10k HPS

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Top three in my book is warr/dk/pally

abstract pebble Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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From what I have been seeing bear has a lot more reasons to cry right now then prot does

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Granted the healer was doing the same and I was still dropping

sick sentinel Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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@primal crypt so you want shattering throw?

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Literally warrior takes the least dmg

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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@chilly brook
Also when AFK (no Ironskin Brew) Monk still has more EHP than a warrior with Shield Wall or Shield Block 😦

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Mmmmmmmmshatteringthrowwww

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I miss it

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Truth lol

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:13 PM

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Dispel on shield slam

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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Well tbh idk if it’s more EHP tbh

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Since that really depends on how much damage intake there is

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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We lost some great stuffs

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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But in general without much stagger yes

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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Shield slam dispel, throw silence

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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Stagger is roughly 50 %.
Shield Block or Shield Wall are roughly 40 % each.
(Stagger with ISB is 80 %)

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:14 PM

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Mocking vanner

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Banner

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Excuse

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Challenging shout

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:15 PM

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Yes but that can quickly change depending on stagger level

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Granted they’re still only going to take that 20% up front or w/e

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But if they have high stagger their EHP is practically lowered

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:15 PM

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Imaging if we got execute back but with a tanking twist on it

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:16 PM

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Anyways it’s not that important of an argument

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:16 PM

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80% dmg reduction for keeping up execute stacks

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Sounds good

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:16 PM

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Problem is we would cheese the shit out of hard final phase bosses

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Never die do most dmg

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Then people would complain Perot is to good

primal crypt Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Opop

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Interesting though how I feel more comfortable tanking as a prot warrior (so called worst tank by the community) and the only other tanks I feel that are ahead are blood DK and monk with Paladin imo being just about the same

woeful reef Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Eh, look at DK's in the MDI, Blizz doesnt care whats OP

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:17 PM

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Or we would need to be weaker before the execute phase which is horable design for a tank

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:18 PM

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It’s more like how do you balance Blood DK

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‘Member when frost DK was the tank spec and was considered too good?

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Then they made it blood?

abstract pebble Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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@chilly brook That is what I am seeing in the M+ logs to some extent DK>DH>BRM=Pally=Prot>Druid

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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When "frost DKs" were tanks, specs didn't exist.
You just picked whatever talents you wanted from all 3 trees

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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That’s true

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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They should care about balance if they want to continue this e sports m+ thing

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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Spec’d yo to third row I think in frost and the rest in w/e

kind urchin Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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Ivsaw dk tanks of all primary trees back then.

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:19 PM

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Lol

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Their esports thing is OW

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Nobody gives a shit about wow

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:20 PM

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I agree it's a joke but yeah

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:20 PM

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Point is they’ve never properly balanced DK tanking

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@grim prism tbf the viewership disagrees

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:20 PM

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It’s inevitable that one class will become mandatory in an infinitely scaling system

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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Although imo blood is a problematic thing to balance

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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What do you mean @chilly brook ?

woeful reef Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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DKs should have more damage mitigation and a shit ton less self healing. No tank should be able to survive without a healer. DK + 4 dps was such a joke.

surreal remnant Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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Does someone have the Pawn string for War prot?

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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Regarding what blood DK’s??

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@lusty grotto

woeful reef Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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Dont use pawn Flax

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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No pawn strings pawn is yucky @surreal remnant

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Oh nah I meant viewership

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:21 PM

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Just for the sake of argument

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OW league gets 2-4x as much viewership, and that doesnt even account for the fact that the bnet launcher autoplayed the MDI stream

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/shrug

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:22 PM

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Take a look at twitch viewership for the MDI arena championships and the world first race.

kind urchin Oct 8, 2018, 4:22 PM

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They could start by putting a cap on how much ds heals for.

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:22 PM

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There is very obviously an audience that is interested

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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Interesting

solid mist Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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I mean. any competative, high-level e-sport thing is going to have rankings. Fighting games, mobas, etc. it's why "metas" exist and fluctuate as patches or players figuring shit out happens.

Just a real bummer in a game where like... you are supposed to spend time leveling and growing attached to a character. Seems like the vibe now is "eh just buy a level boost and play a different class"

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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Dk could use less minimum healing and have more healing based on damage taken

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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No shit there are viewers, but not to the same extent as competing games is my point

chilly brook Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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@grim prism just because OWL has more viewership doesn’t mean that wow doesn’t have a viewership that cares and makes blizz money

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:23 PM

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I wonder if m+ viewers are just there to see better routes and to sell runs based on what they learned

junior igloo Oct 8, 2018, 4:24 PM

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@abstract pebble
That might be accurate, but we have some problems that go beyond viability.
We are kinda weak, but more importantly the spec is bad in some aspects.
If they gave us 50 % passive reduction tomorrow, we would be overpowered strong, but we would still be badly designed spec.

Talents don't work, there are no competitive alternatives to the broken Anger Management + cooldown enhancing talents (BV, Bolster, UF) synergy.
Mastery is too RNG (tanks prefer consistency) and the Critical Block part only works when you already blocked (when the real danger are full attacks that haven't been blocked in the first place).
Spending rage competes for GCDs with generating with no alternative creating this clunky feeling where you are passing on a generator like Shield Slam, which you don't want to do, but you'd overcap otherwise.

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:24 PM

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Yes but I’m sure everyone was interested in how mdi would play out

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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I'm not going to get into a philosophical debate over two products I ultimately don't really give a shit about

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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I always find it very interesting seeing other people play

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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Problem solved: Passive - equipping a shield gives you permanent invulnerability

lusty grotto Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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Rofl

leaden kernel Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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Except to rocks

vital wren Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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Suck it DKs

grim prism Oct 8, 2018, 4:25 PM

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I'm just saying I don't think MDI is their primary focus as a company, in an age when esports are exploding in popularity

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Look at how much money gets dumped into OWL and compare it to the fact that theyare launching MDIs with bugged dungeons