that would probably be the only thing he needs to change.
#protection
hot locust
buoyant bobcat
This is the Void Lash + Shatter combo, correct? Void Lash applies a healing reduction and then Shatter increases damage taken. From what I understand, you're supposed to tank swap right after?
hot locust
The rest is on healers.
Correct.
You swap after all 3 hits of the combo.
Lash > Shatter > Lash
buoyant bobcat
Okay, I will mention this to the healers and the warrior. Thank you, Lala.
It's a pity that prot warrior isn't supported by WowAnalyzer. That app helps so much when I'm trying to figure out the little things!
hot locust
one day
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
@buoyant bobcat I'm also pretty sure based on timings of buffs he is using shield block on CD even when he isn't tanking. That's a big no-no because it means he isn't saving charges for when he is tanking.
buoyant bobcat
Oh that wouldn't be good. I'll mention that as well, thanks!
mellow bridge
outer dew
sick sentinel
when tf was shield slam rage ren reduced from 20 to 15?
I could've sworn it was 20 for awhile anyway
ember arrow
xd
unborn karma
ember arrow
right
stone crag
๐ค
neon glade
Why is prot warrior considered so weak in raiding atm? not playing one myself, so havn't been reading too much about it
sick sentinel
yeah I know that.
fair crystal
I stack haste vers as much as i can
fair crystal
im only a 2/8 mythic pleb but hey i reckon it helps a lot
signal plover
I wouldn't rly stack it at the expense of haste
But outside of that ya vers is good
fair crystal
yeah fair call but if your happy with the amount of rage gen you have and you manage it well then i see why Vers is an options i mean they are 7/8 mythic must be doing something right ๐
Haste = rage gen which = DR i guess
Smooths the rotation as well
ember arrow
byron writing another essay kappa
vagrant cape
@neon glade The main reason they're not seen in high end raiding very often is because brewmasters are more consistent with their 100% ISB uptime.
The main reason warriors are so unpopular is because community perception makes the class seem bad. The class is honestly perfectly fine and actually mitigates the most melee damage of all the tanks. They're perfectly viable in high end content but they do require more work and practice. When played properly they mitigate mountains of damage and do insane cleave dps.
Hey man, I like my essays
It's more efficient
Than typing
west cape
does one of you have some kind of seriuos pawn string fpr protection warrior?
neon glade
So it aint going to benefit me to pick up prot warriro as 3rd alt?
ember arrow
i never said you said i said theyre bad
hot locust
Depends on if you find it fun @neon glade that's all that matters.
ember arrow
even if it did, using someone ele's pawn string is useless
since it has to be based on your gear
vagrant cape
@neon glade word is they're getting buffed in 8.1 so if you're optimistic, I'd go for it. No idea what kind of changes the other tanks will get, if any.
west cape
so...
hot locust
I play protection because it is the most engaging of the tanks to me.
Not because of it's relative strength to the other tank classes.
neon glade
yeah, been trying it out, havn't particulary liked it tho, but I have been terrible in the content I have done with it
so might give it a shot actually
idk
final mist
If you don't like it, there's no reason to force yourself to play it.
vagrant cape
If you like beating the dps at aoe damage, I'd say prot is where it's at. I'm a meter whore
fair crystal
we are probs one of the Best tanks for Smoothing incoming damage Byrons right on the money Community Toxicity put us in the spot we are now when i play my Warrior compeered to my other tanks i feel way stronger the lack of self healing is the only real difference
solid mist
well also. it's super easy, if you aren't reading IV or here, to just play completely terribly
just inspect random prot wars that you see in PUGs
their talents are bonkers
chrome falcon
have you guys seen that prot warrior log on mythic fetid
running dragon roar and punish
solid mist
๐ฎ
so they then play bad, and since the class in it's current state isn't really forgiving of even slight mistakes, it is easy for people to look very bad playing it
vagrant cape
I just did an underrot 10 and everything tickled. There were no moments where the healer scrambled to use CDs and never went oom
vagrant cape
Also, holy shit a lot of prot warriors are bad though.
wide forge
you could say that about lots of tank classes
solid mist
I mean... you hang out on here and as such actually give a shit and read guides and things ๐
fair crystal
looks at IOs number 1 Warrior senses dudes rocking 16s and 15s
neon glade
well, aint like +10 is that hard for any tank atm
solid mist
I mean. it's def hard for randos who aren't really reading guides, and aren't looking up M+ routes and stuff
vagrant cape
The sheer amount of bad prot warriors failing +2 keys combined with the stupid memes on r/wow make the class seem bad when really people just need to learn the spec and get a deafening crash piece
fair crystal
we def getting to that point where we are got to start out scaling M+ with mythic gears and Caches
vagrant cape
Prot warriors also scale super well with gear. A good shield is night and day compared to a bad one
fair crystal
im only 370 here but iv noticed a massive difference in heroic /Mythic raid just from a few ilvls
Indeed hope for a nice 385 Shield on Wednesday ๐
vagrant cape
Going from a 350 to a 365 shield is a 6.7% damage reduction from melee attacks and that's just from the block value, not the str/stam/secondaries
I think I have a 320 shield in my bags. I wanna see the difference once I get back to my PC
fair crystal
the hardest part is trying to get into a Pug imo just make a group your self or get a bunch of guildes and prove that Warriors aren't Trash LOK'TAR OGAR
neon glade
I main dk, I get invited to anything on it :/ the fact I dont want to be in any of it is a different story
ancient reef
where do shields drop
vagrant cape
damn, going from a 320 shield to a 365 shield is a 15.9% damage reduction from blocked attacks
34% block reduction to 44% block reduction, roughly
cinder pasture
Socketed one is better, even though other one has more haste..right ?
plain vapor
fiery anvil
Hey guuys im wondering if swapping my 340 helm with deafening crash for a 370 gridrunnner helm from hc mother. Is it worth it without another azerite piece with deafnening crash?, and if so what trait should i pick on gridrunner helm?
zinc mauve
@vagrant cape to further drive this home, I went from a 345 to 370 shield and dungeons where last week I struggled, this week I just walk over everything and managed to +1 a m12
then again, the affixes this week are fairly simple
snow vault
came to see the response to the dead bongocat warrior meme I made last night. I take it it was accurate? I don't play warrior tank
I saw it there up in the chat and saw it was "good press"
stray tiger
See much crying about prot war, but when someone say "unplayable"
Wtf, they struggle now, have nearly same problems as in legion
stone crag
except there's more
stray tiger
But playable
stone crag
for the most part, sure but that's still pretty subjective
stray tiger
Still think that only thing that really underwhelming is rage spender
vagrant cape
@snow vault did you post the original one on reddit? If so, it's humorous but only because it reinforces the belief that prot warriors are bad. Although many are garbage, yes, the class can do content just fine. It's more a matter of the class being more unforgiving than the others.
If a prot warrior dies because they're running vengeance and ravager it's not because prot warrior is bad it's because they didn't read a guide
stray tiger
Ravager lul
See only one possible build on him, cause other options in avatar boost/bolster/bv/am is underwhelming
Blizzard said that they will change it in some way, but I don't think that it will be good(buff ip with nerfs to blocks obviously, lul)
sick sentinel
pref they just dont touch it at all in that case.
stray tiger
Yeah and I hope they will not touch that sick aoe damage
sick sentinel
380 shield + socket, take like no damage ever and IP just pads anything else coming in w/ 45k cap on it. damage intake is a joke.
stray tiger
380 shield with socket, are you tried casino run?
shut rapids
How do I get rage against single target (bosses)?
Can't find enough rage to ever use the blocks if demo roar is on cd
earnest zinc
Don't waste it on Ignore Pain
floral tinsel
you should have enought to keep shield block going
shut rapids
Got it, I've been spamming ip
earnest zinc
The damage is pathetic ST for the rage cost
floral tinsel
^^
thats the mistake.. IP is not terrible, but its not good either.,.. and the rage cost is huge, so often better to just pool the rage than spend it on IP unless you are capping or dieing
On the other hand, Shield block is essential for survival
so keep it up as much as humanly possible
shut rapids
Yeah I got it, np
I just bound ip to the hotkey where I have self sustain spammable ability on other tanks and been just spamming it naturally
sick sentinel
47.07% @vagrant cape
floral tinsel
Thats sexy
vagrant cape
Damn, that's so nice
sick sentinel
yeah, telling you. we feel solid as fuck at the higher ilvl.
we REALLY dont need a kit change but ofc thats just honest imo.
earnest zinc
When block works, it's amazing, but the problem is that more often than not, it won't work
Either it will be on CD or the damage isn't blockable
floral tinsel
the small hotfixx did some things.. and also once you get haste going to keep up shield block a lot and beeing able to prolong demo shout with the right azerite trait a lot, warrior is decent.. at least in Uldir... Mythic+ still struggle due to lack of utility
vagrant cape
That 380 shield is gonna be another 4.25% damage reduction. Weird. Going from 350 to 365 is better than 365 to 380
earnest zinc
A lot of the problem is everyone is obsessed with the meta that they will rarely give a warrior or bear a chance
I see many guilds specifying monk or dk
sick sentinel
54.45% total 'avoidance' w/o shield block
steady dock
On one hand, I absolutely love my prot warrior. On the other hand... people giving me shit for it is just painful.
floral tinsel
tbh, the 5 first bosses are easy
steady dock
People have no idea how warrior damage intake works
I was sent into the second raiding group in my guild... Healers were dreaded by "Prot warrior tank oh no"
366 ilvl, running HC. They thought Guarm is going to oneshot me
earnest zinc
Those guys are retarded
steady dock
Then Zek'voz slams me with a combo and people are panicking that I'll die.
floral tinsel
And besides Zul, every boss is fine with prot warrior
steady dock
It was exhausting
earnest zinc
Mythic is the only one they would have some point with
steady dock
Got benched at mother for the mythics :/
earnest zinc
Though it is easier to use a DK or Monk, but it's doable with Warrior
floral tinsel
Zul second phase really favours paladins or monks
steady dock
2xSB, LS, 2xSB, SW, die?
That was pretty much the gig until they decided to replace me with a monk tank and oneshotted the thing.
It wasn't even funny. Mother, melee hits... 40% miss
floral tinsel
2xSB, LS, 2xSB, keep up demo shout until 2 stacks of SB and spam IP -> repeat
earnest zinc
I don't think Prot will be worth using until later tiers when they got the haste
floral tinsel
oh yeah
floral tinsel
prot warrior is useless without deafening clash
earnest zinc
That trait is mandatory
steady dock
last time I saw it, was on a 310 normal shoulder
floral tinsel
But the good news are we arent the only specc/class that have retarded mandetory traits
earnest zinc
You have to have that trait and only one talent build just to be barely adequate for mythic raids
steady dock
Voldunai emissary today was generous
floral tinsel
keep the 310 shoulder
steady dock
So I got DC and gemhide
floral tinsel
I run a 340 shoulder while rest of gear is from mythic 7-10 / HC Uldir
steady dock
so, yay
Can probably try mythic mom again now
Hopefully
It's funny how you can block about 90% of the damage if you cblock
floral tinsel
Here is a question though.. is gemhide as good on warrior as it is on everyone else?
Warrior already has a shitton of armor and we get armor from strenght
steady dock
I doubt it. I mean, getting hit for 6k won't trigger it
floral tinsel
While stuff like monk has low armor so the benefit from gemhide is insane in comparison
zinc mauve
I love watching other tanks eat the zekvoz combo with like 20% hp while I end it with a liesurely 60 percent thanks to ip, block, and spell reflect
floral tinsel
haha Zekvoz is tha best ๐
earnest zinc
Prot is strong when your tools actually work
floral tinsel
But then we cry on Zul
earnest zinc
They are paper when they don't
zinc mauve
Yep
floral tinsel
yeah.. speaking of that... Rage generation in skittish week.,... so much fun
earnest zinc
Monk is the best thrash tank by a mile despite mastery being worthless for that
floral tinsel
cant get rage to spam revenge... cant spam revenge to gain threat to build rage
earnest zinc
No other tank seems to have times when their mitigation is useless and they are paper
zinc mauve
You can tell when block or anything isn't up during fetid thrash 100-30 in one skill
steady dock
Personal favorite while progressing
zinc mauve
Same, just some threat issues when avatar isnt up
earnest zinc
It would be like if shield block had 100% uptime and worked on everything armor did, but blocked only half the damage it does now.
floral tinsel
then you dont run with a DH and mage that just like to AOE everything to fuck
or I suck
earnest zinc
Though I think they should have done that
floral tinsel
probably the last one
sick sentinel
only 'issue' I have is having DPS in my server/battlegroup that'll actually want to push +12s.
or higher.
earnest zinc
Prot Warrior makes Skittish a joke if you have avatar up
floral tinsel
yeah.. guess my group just isn't good at skittish then
floral tinsel
keeping avatar up requires you to spend rage... and you have a circular problem
zinc mauve
If I was pushing higher I'd consider using pots
floral tinsel
yeah.. I guess I'm slacking there.. I have been sticking to food and flask
earnest zinc
Rage shouldn't be a problem if dps don't burst off the bat
sick sentinel
I use strength/haste food anything 10+, flask, strength runes if good group.
floral tinsel
well I guess we have been doing it wrong then... luckly its soon over
sick sentinel
im sitting on millions cus of abusing WoD garrison and good ZJ market when I was on that server back then.
gold no issue so min/max what I can.
floral tinsel
sounds good
sick sentinel
easy runes from satchels
floral tinsel
I guess its also kinda part of the issue with prot warrior in m+ overall... I know its not true, but it feels this way when you pull... you choose between not dieing and haveing threat for the first 3 GCD's and thats just to much... they say we are not supposed to feel that charge and demo shout is on gcd.... but oh fucking hell, at least I do
empty locust
On Mythic Zek, Do the Silithid warriors have any form of threat in selecting their focus target?
floral tinsel
I have been tinking about doing that.. but if I Avatar before carge+thunder clap I loose out on avatar time, no?
neon tangle
you lose out on one extra gcd
floral tinsel
well yeah
neon tangle
but the trade off is you've got threat within 2 GCD
sick sentinel
and either avatar/leap into packs, or heroic throw tab pulling to better location after party charging.
I dont pug tho.
floral tinsel
yeah.. I will defnetly try that @neon tangle
oblique pike
so block** now increases ur armor against the blocked attack by the value of block on your shield, right?
so if i have a shield with block value 4000, an attack i block will be DR's by armor as if i had 4000 more armor?
vagrant cape
I don't think that's how it works at all
oblique pike
(and 8000 is if i crit block)?
o it reduces it by an additional like... layer of armor instead of if you had that much more armor
as in it doesnt get reduces by having more armor
nvm i got it, math checks out
candid vine
It's not that simple @oblique pike
It's not just adding 4000/8000 on top of your armor
oblique pike
yea i got it, it was weird numbers cuz
i had the wrong K value for my spreadsheet
had the mythic K value for armor instead of base 6300
i got it though, thanks
candid vine
๐
vagrant cape
Block %reduction is block amount divided by (block amount plus a variable dependent on the level of the thing you're fighting)
Oh, you got it. Damn slow mobile typing
chrome falcon
Fetid was surprisingly easy to main tank tonight
His swing damage is really quite low, only 85k or so compared to Vectis at 92k
Only issue is that the other tank has to get so much healing for the thrashes that I get neglected sometimes, but Shield Block is a really good button
vagrant cape
Fetid is a great fight for us. Intense physical damage with a few pauses for our SB to recharge
shut rapids
How does the raid array buff work with into the fray?
Say you got 1200 haste and 1200 crit without into the fray stacks and then you run to your bois
Does the array buff change?
vagrant cape
Good question
No idea.
Check your haste value and see if that changes with into the fray stacks
If the number changes, I'd bet the buff will change
shut rapids
Oh yeah the number doesn't seem to change
sick sentinel
such strong block
neon tangle
@shut rapids I"m fairly sure it just counts the number of secondary's
i.e. if you have X haste value, rather than %haste
shut rapids
Yeah probably it does, I just didn't double check that the number itself doesn't change
neon tangle
I am unsure if it works w/ trinkets, etc that increase secondaries
frosty wedge
I'm fairly certain ITF is a 15% mutiplicative addon to your haste %
so any additions to haste roll into your haste % then ITF is that X 1.15
sick sentinel
We added each other on bnet โค
sick sentinel
and well, mass grip, kiting etc
but still, it's really rare to take compliments as a prot warrior in my experience ๐
shut rapids
I think bdk takes the most damage rn
Or maybe as much as dhs
But you can have like 20k hps with boneshield and you keep 10k hps in the raid environment, so it kinda makes up
junior ivy
@sick sentinel aw thats cute
next ermine
385 ritual bandages + 380 syringe, syringe and blockades, or blockades and bandages?
sick sentinel
how much +str is the 380 syringe combared to blockades
sick sentinel
I would personally wear bandages and syringe for more deeps, but you can get bandages and blockades if you feel fragile and vulnerable
next ermine
thats what im thinking to, blockades is nice now and then but not really needed
mystic trellis
So im never doing kings rest fortified again
Every other class has something for magic damage right?
wtf is spell reflect
iron forum
lmfao was just checking mythic zul parses for warriors and noticed @shut summit sitting high and mighty as #9 as prot. thats hilarious
shut summit
iron forum
flexing on the rest of us
static lance
What I miss the most from Legion artifact is the Spell Reflect trait.
Giving us that back in one way or another would be so good.
shut summit
same
dark junco
Yeah 5 sec of SR + mitigation was nice
neon tangle
@mystic trellis the mini zul before the last boss was horrible in KR
dark junco
Now its time it or suck
shut rapids
Just solo tanked lfr zekvoz in 320 ilvl kek
dark junco
But for real Iโd take an azerite trait thatโd give you a free talent point to select any additional talent, active in the raid. (Next tier)
God thatโd be awesome
HR + AM?
With bfi thatโd be so good lol
sick sentinel
too op.
shut rapids
I'd take secondaries for azerite traits
And just have regular gear in all slots
Maybe with legion legendary system except for legendaries to have some more unique effects and be able to only wear 1
And to make it so that there's no 1 bis/musthave one
midnight ferry
I have taken ignore pain off my bar, spam revenge from now on
11k total dps in M+, lol
shut rapids
You took away dps from your healer
Who could instead deal damage had you used ip
I think
FA druid who I run 10+ keys with deals like 6k overall dungeon damage
Unless dumb dps take too much avoidable damage
sick sentinel
Feelsbadman
pallid axle
cause u woulnt reroll on monk?
amber siren
I mean healer dps or not, just not using IP at all is 
steep palm
What level 60 talent is best for m+?
sand sail
stone crag
always bolster @steep palm
steep palm
ty
stone crag
there's rarely ever a situation where you wouldn't pick bolster
round vortex
is there any situation you wouldn't pick bolster? I can't think of any lol
astral crystal
you need sick amounts of parry on a 1 min CD 
amber siren
I'd imagine similar to legion, where a mechanic without indomb (including cd's, externals etc) will kill you without the extra HP but there aren't any fights like that rn
round vortex
Yeah I mean i can think of situations where it might. But none of those situations exist at present lol
static pilot
interesting, have you guys seen Lala's reddit thread yet?
I scrolled up briefly but didnt see anyone talking about it
link can be found here if you're interested: https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9ma5lg/protection_warrior_analysis_community_perception/
obtuse venture
I'd like him to qualify his statement about prot being close to other tanks.
I agree with pretty much everything else he said
Close as in if every tank was played perfectly by a bot in a simulation the numbers would be close?
fair lantern
Archive of Titans or Brace for Impact?
sweet orchid
I saw that earlier
I agree with getting rid of indomitable
Make it base line or give it some umph
Like add the leggo bracers effect there
raven kernel
Don't have to play perfectly, just play well, like any other tank
uneven mason
Protection is spot on with other tanks in general survivability, however we're far less forgiving than other tanks, and lack the utility and cheese
Mathamatically nothing is wrong with Protection warriors
raven kernel
It's further exaggerated cos alot of the skilled tank players gravitated away from prot
uneven mason
mechanically we require a level of focus to keep from dying
which is considerably higher than the other tanks
raven kernel
So large percentage of remaining prot population... Aren't as skilled
uneven mason
like, you could have a dead chimp in a rocking chair play BrM
uneven mason
but we take a lot less damage and require less external healing than BrM, but they have a massive EHP pool with little real interaction
since their mitigaiton is more or less, passive outside of 1 button, infact thats the issue, their whole tanking mechanic is more or less tied to pressing 1 or 2 buttons correctly in 7 second windows
our is using 6 dfifferent abilities properly over the entire window of their use, (so around 45 seconds)
obtuse venture
Do they even need toe generate resource?
so one tank is juggling 5 chainsaws and the other tank is juggling 3 cotton buds and that is balanced. Just git gud 4head.
solid mist
the other thing that post highlights, we are using all of or maybe all except SW as part of normal rotation. So that can leave you in situations like in an M+ where an extra pack gets pulled or something and oops you have no oh shit button now cause they are all on cooldown b/c you are using everything all the time
raven kernel
You can generally reserve sw
Certain packs in certain dungeons may warrant using sw
obtuse venture
I really appreciate these skilled mythic raiders creating guides and theorycrafting the class but sometimes I'd like them to climb down from Mt Olympus and smell the shit down in the streets cause I think they've forgotten what it's like down here.
raven kernel
But other tanks will also pop big cds there
solid mist
yeah but they have multiple. lots of times we have SW
b/c everything else is always being used
so depending on when the bad thing happens, you might not have much
raven kernel
And we get our cds back way quicker?
amber siren
Muscle what are you on about
raven kernel
What does dh have?
solid mist
yup, but that's adressed in the post
raven kernel
Dh has fuck all
solid mist
that makes for a really fun playstyle, I agree
but can be frustrating to average players b/c it's hard to plan
lucid kelp
mythic Vectis is going........well
static lance
good thread, and surprisingly good responses too
lucid kelp
Nothing is wrong with Prot...except that Sco abandoned us.
(understandably so but still!)
obtuse venture
@raven kernel What I mean is for high end players who go into M+ with all their CDs planned out 30 minutes ahead of time they might feel like they are close to that Blood DK even though they cant grip or mass grip or ranged interrupt or mad sustain. But for the average guy who is trying to 2 chest his +6 Kings Rest key he's walking into the mini boss room and thinking "hmmm I'm getting trucked and I've used all my CDs. That DK tank didn't have such a hard time with this in my other run." Then they go to reddit and basically get told to "git gud" because if they had played it perfectly they woulda been fine and tanks are "close". It's kinda galling TBH. It's just a different world and even though high skill caps are a good thing you still need to balance it for the average player as well.
static lance
the only thing I 'plan' out in an m+ is whether the next pack will need Avatar + DS or not, or whether I can coast with SB and IP.
raven kernel
Our cds are short, pretty much only need to look 1 to 2 packs ahead
obtuse venture
again you're speaking from a point of view of a veteran who has everything figured out. you are literally ranked in the top 500 for warrior tanks on raider.io
raven kernel
And when doing higher keys things take longer to die, you can pretty much avatar every pack or every 2nd pack (for small pulls)
hot locust
@obtuse venture did you actually read my post for that thread?
lusty elbow
the problem with prot is because we have to prevent dmg before it occurs and not after and random avr player has no clue what spell to interrupt much less actually interrupt, when he should kite from this stacking debuff. We are a prevent dmg first class that come from knowing what is coming before it happens not after. The Avr player isn't gonna know what hurt and doesn't or remember. I love that prot is preventative tank but that already makes one of the hardest tanks for the Avr Player
raven kernel
@hot locust ๐
obtuse venture
yea i did i read it all i agree with most of it
except the bit where you say tanks are close
hot locust
Because thats exactly what im saying to do. Make prot more accessible to the average player.
obtuse venture
I mean they might seem close at the higher end player perspective but even then I doubt it looking at the rankings
hot locust
@raven kernel hi hi, hard to post from work.
lusty elbow
yea i dont think they can rework that much lala becuase we are prevent first and i agree the post
obtuse venture
yea thats why I said i agree with most of it
raven kernel
@hot locust im at work too orz
We all agree prot needs to be bumped up for the average player
static lance
i am also at work.
amber siren
Lala's point what that prot warrior is viable if played properly, not that everyone who can't grasp it is bad. Idk what this idea that he's on mount olympus is coming from, it's no secret the skill ceiling for us is way too hgh
static lance
what do you guys think about Never Surrender being baseline?
amber siren
not a fix
lusty elbow
I do hate how global locked i am on prot but since i am not playing other tank classes really. I have a max level DK and i feel soo free in rotation compared to Prot but not sure how many other tank classes have soo many globals already "fixed" for them
amber siren
self healing isn't an issue
raven kernel
If you can play prot well (not perfectly), you can definitely do 10s
But there's too much rhetoric going around that prot is so bad they can't even do lower keys
static lance
I also have a prot paladin. not at all GCD-locked, but there are periods when everything is on CD and you have nothing to press.
which can get frustrating
obtuse venture
Some people might not be able to do lower keys on a prot warrior because they are only playing it to say 50% of it potential. But maybe they could do those lower keys if they played a DK instead to 50% potential.
zinc mauve
dont forget how important a good shield is for a warrior
lusty elbow
you can basically AFK on blood DK and do dungeons
when i played my Blood DK compared to my prot warrior that was 15 lvls high and just kind of looked how to tank blood i didnt even have to try and felt about twice as safe
dusky mica
I've seen things that'll scare you shell-less
raven kernel
Bad prot is just badder
obtuse venture
give that bad DH a warrior he probably struggle to do a 3
static lance
like on my prot paladin, i will drop to ~30% quite frequently, but then just use HotP and everything will be fine.
zinc mauve
you drop to 30% on a warrior then you better jump tf out
static lance
on my warrior, i rarely drop below 50%. but when I do, there is very little I can do to save myself.
pop LS if its up and then panic spam IP, I guess.
lusty elbow
IP off GCD help the avr warrior stay alive but i dont think that is the right fix for us. But that is what everyone is crying for but the hardcore Prot Warriors
amber siren
Warrior is about not getting to 30% and panicking in the first place
Self healing isn't a fix to getting to 30% and not having a plan
raven kernel
OK so let's change the viewpoint, are people striving to get better and play at a higher level? If yes and they can get better, prot will be ok
If the person is skill capped at a lower level or has no intention to push his skill ceiling, then definitely consider another class
obtuse venture
The problem is in pugs there is a lot of bad play. Entire group is taking a lot of avoidable damage and having a tank that has a threshold or needs a lot more attention puts so much more pressure on healers.
static lance
@amber siren I agree with that completely and I love prot as it is. But some recovery mechanics for when things go wrong would be nice to have.
like say an extra pack gets pulled in an m+
dusky mica
IP values just need to be bigger
zinc mauve
i think just starting with making the class a bit easier for those starting out on the class would help a ton
lucid kelp
It was a good read and gave me a better understanding of where Im lacking in prot
zinc mauve
atleast with perception
dusky mica
not that I like BFA gameplay as is
raven kernel
I don't drop to 30% often, when it does happen my healer has cds to pick me back up
It's a partnership
zinc mauve
^ or you got a frost mage to allow you to kite till next affixes roll out
solid mist
yeah that's a weird thing reading a lot of other posts and shit
people are like... literally saying shit like "ugh you have to heal prot warriors"
like... NO SHIT
WHAT?
zinc mauve
not to mention pretty much every single high affix party brings a frost mage anyway
obtuse venture
@raven kernel i dont think they should be forced into another class. I think they should be just as effective as other tanks at that skill level. but if prot is to have a higher skill cap then raise its effectiveness cap too so high skilled players will want to swap off lower skill ceiling tanks to a prot warrior to really min max.
raven kernel
@obtuse venture i do agree there
static lance
sure, the rare times bad things happen and I drop to 30%, the healer is there to help me out (and I do my bit too, SW still exists). but I dunno, having some self-sufficiency in those rare events would be nice, is all I'm saying.
zinc mauve
lower the skill floor and increase the cieling?
lucid kelp
blizzard hates High SKill high Reward classes...they're more about High Skill Average reward
lusty elbow
I am not sure how we make prot easier for the avr player unless SB uptime gets massive increased or IP become better somehow so that avr tanks have something to help them cover up mistakes
raven kernel
But I'm talking about right now, barring any changes, those are your considerations
Of course blizz has to change things
dusky mica
I'm all for nerfing stagger and deathstrike, let all the tanks suck
solid mist
๐
dusky mica
healers be damned!
raven kernel
Back in vanilla pretty much only warriors could tank
solid mist
bring back trials, can't swap to tank spec until you clear a certain trial level
raven kernel
So you were either a good tank or bad tank
dusky mica
nah
lusty elbow
lol but i dont wait for 3 sunders to dps
lucid kelp
dude in vanilla we had Fury tanks
dusky mica
vanilla it was 'a tank' or 'dead'
raven kernel
Back then if tanks sucked you changed the player
static lance
prot warrior philosophy is use all your tools to maintain your HP at the 70% level (which is very possible), but most average players won't be able to do that. in which case they need some kind of band-aid to help them out.
solid mist
well... a lot of this talk revolves around specific talent setup. Withouth bolster and AM... average prot war isn't maintaining that HP
raven kernel
Blocks are good on ghuun
static lance
that specific talent set up is also part of the problem.
solid mist
yes it is
zinc mauve
gimme a talent that increases how much spell reflect actually reflects.. or make it have a lower cooldown at least
raven kernel
I tank max buffed add full time and still taunt swap ghuun with my brew
lucid kelp
we can spell reflect on ghuun so Im happy with that
static lance
our baseline kit is missing so many things that only that one set up is even viable.
make more of the shitty talents (like Impending Victory and Never Surrender) baseline, and then give us more competitive talents.
raven kernel
I would like hr baseline
solid mist
to make you not use AM
dusky mica
nah fuck IV and NS, garbage
raven kernel
Gimme dat sb extension
lucid kelp
Heavy Repurcussions COULD compete.....if it gave us 100% uptime on SB.. Maybe?
zinc mauve
ehh i think that would be a bit busted
static lance
not 100%, but 75%.
obtuse venture
They need to change the philosphy on IP. It should be buffed and taken off GCD. The thinking should be Here is a mitigation ability that is effective and can be used however much you want. It's up to u to generate resources for it. the more you maximize your rage generation the more effective you are .
static lance
you fill the gaps with DS and IP and you'd be pretty solid
raven kernel
I've pondered over the idea of ip being a toggle rage drain
dusky mica
HR would need the time extension buffing to be good
lusty elbow
@raven kernel that is basically what i think our mastery should be is a flat increase to block value and SB uptime. It makes it constant and not random and helps all warriors even the bad ones
solid mist
I hate IP, just from a stylelistic/clss fantasy thing. I wish they could come up with something else
dusky mica
even in legion with the machine gun set bonus it wasnt very good
static lance
@dusky mica IV and NS are garbage, they need to be changed. Indomitable is equally garbage.
but if those two talents were made baseline, I'm not going to complain. it's just going to help me out even more.
lucid kelp
make IV baseline, and effected by AM?
lusty elbow
At least in legion IP stacked better than now so that if you knew a large hit was incoming you could prep with more IPs
dusky mica
well I'll tell you now, new warriors do find IP very confusing
obtuse venture
@raven kernel i like that idea. it would be less spammy get rid of that awkward absorb cap and pooling rage will be more meaningful
dusky mica
there is no way to track it in the default ui at all
lucid kelp
yeah gotta grab the wa
dusky mica
even block is hard for new players
solid mist
lol man. yeah the default UI for prot wars is insanity
how much IP do I have left? can i use it again? should I?
lucid kelp
I've played default UI for years........as a bear...
solid mist
let me hover over it and do some quick mental math
lucid kelp
switching to warrior made me make UI changesd
dusky mica
a lot of the shit warrior complaints also come from this UI mess
raven kernel
I can't play wow without custom ui
dusky mica
new warriors ARE bad because there is no way to be good with that UI
lucid kelp
one day I will try a custom UI...but I do enjoy being able to play on Patch Day
raven kernel
100% would unsub if they removed addons
lusty elbow
i wonder when our DC trait nerf comes in and we get wrecked even harder
solid mist
new warriors are bad imo, b/c you need to read a guide to play prot at a mediocre level. Right?
lucid kelp
new warriors are bad because they are new....gotta learn the class
dusky mica
as a new warrior your mitigation is all guess work
solid mist
how do you learn that there is 1 viable talent build
dusky mica
press block, is it up? I dunno, cant tell
solid mist
lol
dusky mica
use IP? how do I know it's up?
lucid kelp
same way you learn every class. Icy veins! (or dreamgrove) (or that warlock website)
solid mist
haha
dusky mica
use it it again? oh no rage
solid mist
I agree!
but ... what % of the playerbase doens't look at any guides
more than you think I would wager
lucid kelp
too many
lucid kelp
at least 70%
lucid kelp
I have played with Warlocks that did less damage than me on single target...
solid mist
๐
zinc mauve
imagine if instead of buffing warrior or doing anything, they just nerfed every other tank into the ground
lusty elbow
some of it is that, i mean if you tell a Blood DK to make sure he keeps his bone armor stacks up and DS on CD he would be an OK DK but if you tried to tell a prot warrior to juggle 3 CDs and keep track of when one goes down to use the next. That already is much harder
dusky mica
yep
obtuse venture
When a new player looks at the prot kit they logically think that when tanking they should be pressing shield block and IP to take manageable damage and abilities like shield wall should only be needed on rare occasions. then they actually get to play the class and very little of that logic actually is applicable.
dusky mica
the only fix for new players is for block to lose its charges and allow you to keep it up almost all the time
static lance
Honestly, if the high skill cap remains, but the rewards are equally high, I wouldn't have a problem.
lucid kelp
coming from a Bear I had to learn that Shield Wall is NOT Survival instincts...
I gotta pop that shit all the time
static lance
community is still gonna think most prot warriors suck, but it'd be because its a hard class to play/master, not because its a bad spec.
raven kernel
Just pop bolster instead
solid mist
@obtuse venture you say that... but just this week someone was in here showing logs of their prot war tank for their guild doing heroic uldir who pressed shield block like FIVE times in a 5 minute fight or some shit. clearly it's not logical lol
lusty elbow
what if we changed so that block is 100% and your Crit block with SB up the mastery would have to change to something else thou
lucid kelp
that would be pretty OP unless they nerf block
solid mist
that's the BrM route
lucid kelp
just a permanent 40% physical damage reduction on top of armor?
obtuse venture
i personally would like to see all of our basic active mitigation tied hard to rage rather than CDs. Short duration with a cost. gives you a minimum RPS for 100% SB coverage and anything over that will aloow you to supplement with IP for more effectiveness
raven kernel
I wouldn't mind if we were made similar to brews
Like how dh and dk have similarities
lusty elbow
that would lower the skill cap for the avr player we def would have to see nerfs or changes but at least it would help the avr player a ton
raven kernel
I mean blizz already homogenised alot of shit so whatever
solid mist
I mean. as long as the good player can weave the CDs and laught as tank busters tickle them, then I think most here would be happy
static lance
best way of lowering skill cap would most likely mean moving reliance from CDs and AM to baseline stuff like SB and IP.
lucid kelp
change ignore pain to a Cheat Death that's CD is reset by AM. >>
static lance
which means increasing SB uptime and improving IP's absorb, obv.
solid mist
the judge dredd of wow classes
dusky mica
no tank should have second life bullshit
lusty elbow
just have a reverse health bar if we reach max HP we die. we must spend rage to deal dmg to ourselves and stuff around us
dusky mica
it's lame as fuck
raven kernel
I think it's lame but the precedence is already there
dusky mica
aye, so remove it
lusty elbow
then we wont need any self healing it solves all our problems
lucid kelp
give warriors a Surrender to madness type ability where we become fucking invincible and then die
as a cheat death tho >> So we still die..we just get like 10 extra seconds of being useful before we die.
lusty elbow
@raven kernel if we made IP a toggle rage drain that would be a good middle ground. I like that ideal and think it has potental to help avr players while still keeping the high skill cap
dusky mica
We could go the HR route. Remove charges from block. Remove rage cost. Slamming with block up extends duration baseline.
lucid kelp
would a Toggle IP be a % or just Eat Rage to generate shield?
static lance
^
lusty elbow
they dont press SB anyways so
static lance
exactly what I was about to say @raven kernel
uneven mason
stop pressing revenge
dusky mica
top tip
static lance
bad players will be bad players, we want to help out average players.
dusky mica
spend rage on a 30k barrier instead
lucid kelp
could keep IP on the gcd, same rage cost, but make it fully negate the next hit you take.
lusty elbow
in M+ you are always over capped anyways and would actaully let us dump some rage and bad tanks wouldnt turn it off but at least they would be midigation some dmg
1 hit is nothing when 5 mobs are hitting you
lucid kelp
not for M+ nah
static lance
something like the interaction paladins have with Judgement and SotR would also be very welcome.
lucid kelp
would be better in raid to take big hits in between shield block cd's
static lance
use something to lower SB CD
lucid kelp
make revenge lower the Shield block CD and then vengeance would be...useful? maybe?
static lance
or fuck, that talent they have to refill SotR charges
why cant we get a similar talent?
lusty elbow
I guess the only Problem with the IP toggle is in m+ i could chew threw soo much rage that i could have Demo on like a 15 CD with means 100% Demo uptime
static lance
press button 2 min CD, get your SB charges back
solid mist
I mean... that's bolster last stand
lucid kelp
ye pretty much
lusty elbow
yep boslter is basically 3 SB charges when used
static lance
... that's fair, didnt think about it that way haha
lusty elbow
as long as your arent overlapping them
lucid kelp
On the topic of T oggle skills i am now wondering what whirlwind would be like as A toggle....just...On demand bladestorm?
static lance
why toggle IP? why not toggle SB?
raven kernel
Afk
lucid kelp
I'd do it
static lance
makes more sense anyway. Angry = raise shield. not angry = lower shield.
lucid kelp
shield block toggle where Each blocked hit consumes ~10 rage?
obtuse venture
Toggle shield block slows your movement by 50%
solid mist
that's some korean mmo skill bullshit
lusty elbow
i still need something better than a 340 shield it is killing me
static lance
Sylvanas.
obtuse venture
Ive never actually had a shield drop in M+ yet. the 365 im using was traded to me by a shaman who didnt need it
lusty elbow
lucky you
solid mist
that's how I got my rezan's fury
lucid kelp
Me either but I do have a 370 Vector
solid mist
someone gave it ot me after a M+
obtuse venture
Ive dont countless ataldazars. no shield still
lusty elbow
Shields are soo important it is sad how much EHP i get from 5 ilvls
a dk can run around with like 325 2 hander and doesnt care that much
lucid kelp
i misread that and was confused at first
zinc mauve
I got my 370 vector only this week cause last two weeks, a shaman and a pally got them
obtuse venture
why would a shaman get a shield over a tank. oh wait no masterloot. yay
amber siren
?
tiny sphinx
as much as i missed the block value stat, it came on more than 1 piece of gear back then
raven kernel
I actually liked the 102.5% era
earnest zinc
Removing ML was a terrible idea
sinful vortex
Haha yeah
trail dagger
Read the bit about shiels block uptime... Good point.. I need to update my Weak Auras to alert off more things. Hrmp..
chilly brook
Wut angry=reckless
Why would angry=raise shield
Thatโs not something you do while being reckless
grizzled current
What are these PTR changes, are the gonna nerf protection warr or am I mistaken?
hallow orchid
where are you seeing this?
grizzled current
upbeat folio
Is there any reason to consider a 380 sporepods over a 365 howler? or 380 sporepods over 385 strangling?
(briny barnacle 385)
tall wadi
@hot locust tfw when you post a well organized reddit post on how prot isn't that bad but just different and people respond "I'm bad and I don't want my spec to be hard to play" ๐ค ๐ซ
zinc mauve
shadow of zul, the true killer of prot warrior in high key King's Rest
molten atlas
for the trinkets sporepods isnts much healing tbh
so howler will reduce more damage than a sporepods will ever heal
zinc mauve
i literally have to lust to kill that damn shadow in +11
manic wigeon
1 Charge for Shield block?
upbeat folio
That sounds like an oversight.
manic wigeon
ah, no. Its good. Its baseline 1 Charge and on lvl38 you get a second one
upbeat folio
^ this guy
stone crag
๐คฆ
@grizzled current no nerfs, i don't how that can be construed from what's on mmoc though
near turtle
How do you guys like the blockades deck vs other trinkets?
summer kestrel
It is not like there is a pletora of tank trinkets to choose from
vestal kraken
Is 34 avoidance with Lifespeed that good?
summer kestrel
You take it for the haste
static lance
so they didnt change mastery at all?
zinc mauve
any pro-sick tips for killing the Shadow of Zul before the last boss of King's Rest?
summer kestrel
"Don't use shield block"
hot locust
@tall wadi to be fair I expected about that level of response.
Really surprised it got as much traction as it did though.
Kinda figured the circlejerk crew would just annihilate it.
stone crag
@static lance nope, not yet at least
tall wadi
@hot locust you have remarkable patience. Reading those replies I don't have enough hands to palm my face.
people arguing that warrior is horrible until you get your first IP going. HMMMMM I WONDER WHY BOOMING VOICE IS SO GOOD HMMMMMM
hot locust
I wouldnt say im patient, I do shake my head at a lot of it. Just have the self control to wait and reply when im cooled off.
sick sentinel
really well put together!
hot locust
Thanks.
It definitely took a bit longer to write it up than I thought it was going to.
Ate up most of my day before coming to work.
tall wadi
also literally nobody on reddit understands that IP absorbing 50% instead of 90% isn't a bad thing
hot locust
It's a slightly mixed bag.
It does mean its weaker in scenarios where you are low on HP.
summer kestrel
Why patience ๐ค
obtuse venture
low hp is when most players will press IP. try to save themselves with the closest thing they have to a heal
summer kestrel
It is a different vision from you guys who play prot all the time
sick sentinel
i feel like our strongest point is also our weakness, cycling our big cd's, having LS for for every other pull in m+... but when someone fks up, u having nothing to press
like bodypull another pack
summer kestrel
I wouldn't call that a strong point xD
tall wadi
strongest point right now is absurd dps
summer kestrel
Absurd how
Really, I have played my share of high keys and I don't see that absurd
It is better than others thats for sure
But not that much
obtuse venture
@sick sentinel pretty good point. in pugs where there are always mishaps having a fairly rigid mitigation rotation is impractical. you want good outs and sustain to recover from bad pulls or when one person has to corpse run back. you wanna be able to really carry that group and prevent a wipe
ember arrow
you dont judge classes based on how they perform if others fuck up
sick sentinel
you do^^
sick sentinel
thats a core part of the game
ember arrow
you dont call a fury warrior a bad class because it cant tank a boss for 10 seconds if tanks die
ember arrow
@sick sentinel it literally isnt. you havea cd plan for fights. if other tank fucks up, if 3/4 healers die and youre forced to use them at wrong times, thats not your class's fault
obtuse venture
LOL
summer kestrel
Lay and waste and walk way while being a fucking stone
ember arrow
how do they stay alive without healer
dk cant even stay alove without healer in appropriate content
summer kestrel
Not having a healer is a major fuck up
sick sentinel
when u play 24/7 with ur perfect set up and guild only, maybe, but we are talking about pugging like high m+ where u need to cycle, and u cant make up mistakes, that is aproblem,a pally can do this
marsh beacon
I think what link is lamenting here is that prot is inherently reliant on its cooldowns. Our cooldowns are very strong, and because of that if you arenโt using them on cooldown, your missing out on a large portion of the unique value protection brings
summer kestrel
Don't go into that scenario
Just something more simpke
Someone fucked up and bolstered some mobs
More than you can handle
marsh beacon
Personally, itโs what I both love and find frustrating about prot.
Itโs the flavour of protection warriors compared to other tanks
obtuse venture
i dont play my DK at high keys ill admit but they do have a 60s CD called bonestorm
its saved a lot of wipes and when i pop it i feel like a god
marsh beacon
Prots ability to spit out stupid good dps on trash makes us a competitive choice in M+ environments. The amount of keys Iโve done which wouldnโt have happened without the extra dps prot brings is silly. That being said, I do agree that we feel comparatively squishy at the tough end of content
obtuse venture
DH trash dps is comparable is it not
ember arrow
dh is very squishy
summer kestrel
๐ค
ember arrow
the reason they were that good in legion is taht their meta was on a 1 min cd
now its a longer cd thats also weaker
stray tiger
i think we have less problems in m+ than dh and druid
ember arrow
there are more warriors pushing than druids
summer kestrel
Well, I will say that drood is boring but it has a lot less problems that prot
stray tiger
in legion i havent seen prot in high keys
summer kestrel
A lot more useful tools
ember arrow
4 druids ibelieve
stray tiger
now it can do it pretty well
stray tiger
that sick dps is what i lack in legion
summer kestrel
Weak how
summer kestrel
They don't rely on a high cd mitigation
ember arrow
there are even less of them pushign than warriors
summer kestrel
Because is freaking boring
stray tiger
prot have problems that still unchanged from legion(1 good talent in 4 tiers(hi bolster, am, avatarbufferino, booming voice), other is lowlvl azerites, windows of vulnerability)
obtuse venture
Druid are just a heal sponge. they can take damage like a champ
stray tiger
but it feels kinda better that it was in legion
ember arrow
o rly
being 20th dmg taken while doing 1.3mil ST dps
was worse than what it is now
requiring less healing than a dps in raids
IP being spammable and stackable
setbonusses and leggos making spec more fun
stray tiger
count ip as rage bump for anger management(but time it after incoming attacks)
in this role it is good
ember arrow
i played warr all legion
stray tiger
it was very good in legion
ember arrow
they were never top tier, but were pretty damn strong, especially after TOS. NH was a bit of a meme period
acoustic echo
it is possible to push beyond 15 as warrior but People who Play at that Level , do it for Money / stream etc and from their perseptive being prot is just more stressful and riskful , a risk that you dont want to take imo
stray tiger
but dont think blizz will give us back some reactive tank option
still wanna see adding mannoroth legendary wrist effect to indomitable
to make it as option in this talent tier
ember arrow
it wont achieve much
summer kestrel
Shrug, never liked that effect
summer kestrel
Doesn't feel right with the warrior scheme
stray tiger
still wanna some selfhealing
ember arrow
classfantasy isnt viability
its irrelevant
i prefer a class that is good
over a class that feels good
take NH druids
summer kestrel
And why not both
stray tiger
10% to max hp is catastrophicaly underwelming
stone crag
i mean, what feels better is subjective but most of the time it's one or the other
stray tiger
some additional effect is what it need(or replacement)
ember arrow
in progression what feels good is irrelevant anyway, since u want to be as little of a burden and as big ofa contribution as possible
summer kestrel
When it has nothing
stray tiger
we dont actually arguing that warrior bad
but we have only one talent build, even in legion we had two
seems like bad talent design from blizzard
stone crag
there were definitely more choices, but i wouldn't say a full other build
silk portal
I want them to buff Devastator
ember arrow
the only choice is : cookie cutter build or useless?
silk portal
Devastate Spam is ๐ด
zinc creek
stray tiger
that memes about ravager LUL
stone crag
doesn't have a place anywhere in current tuning
silk portal
You spam Devastate to get Shield Slam procs while keeping Thunder Clap on CD while trying to keep IP and SB up
Devastate just feels useless
silk portal
Just make Devastator viable again
topaz ember
make ravager have no cool down then we would be gods
silk portal
So I can remove that shit spel from my actionbar
stone crag
Legion Private server Kappa
stray tiger
lul
ember arrow
@stone crag i would paly the shit outta that tbh
topaz ember
nah just wait for classic where we will be top once again
silk portal
Warlords of Draenor
stone crag
yikes
silk portal
That was the shit
stone crag
wanting to play classic
silk portal
I loved WoD
ember arrow
i am doing wod quests atm for achiev, and theyre actually good
topaz ember
ah yes when prot was the top warrior dps spec
ember arrow
but outside quests and raids
topaz ember
for like a patch
ember arrow
nothing there
topaz ember
Wod was so bad my account got hacked and i didnt even try to get it back until legion came out
stone crag
lol
topaz ember
thats not even a joke
he told my 200k
took*
but didnt take any of my tcg battle pets
silk portal
I loved HFC, I played Prot Warrior, B-DK, F-DK, S-Priest and Affli/Dest Warlock
I loved the entire raid
Even did some Mythic after three months of playing the game
marsh beacon
@hot locust could you link your reddit post please?
zinc mauve
@marsh beacon im 99% sure this is the post https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9ma5lg/protection_warrior_analysis_community_perception/
hot locust
I'd rather not repeatedly post it here. It has been posted enough if you search it from here on.
Discussion on it is fine, it just doesnt need to be posted 50+ times.
stone crag
also not far down on the subreddit ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
zinc mauve
some people arent too familiar with looking around on reddit so its fine i think as long as discussion is limitted
i already posted my own insight within but my perspective is rather limitted since BFA is the first time ive played wow since early Wrath
hearty portal
Is warrior the only tank that has its main mitigation ability for only melee hits?
amber siren
What?
hearty portal
Pretty sure paladin can block spells, Dk's can absorb damage from dots etc
zinc mauve
IP, Spell reflect, and shield wall are our MDMG resists
but yes our primary mitigation is only melee
summer kestrel
Thats why ghuun feels sooooo bad
amber siren
IF, SotR are both armour so I mean?
zinc mauve
im not familiar with those acronyms
zinc mauve
ah i see, thanks
hearty portal
Does armor reduce bleed damage?
stone crag
no
zinc mauve
only ip and shield wall reduce bleed damage assuming its not physical
hearty portal
Would it make or break warrior to add ranged attacks to our blockable list
It just feels so off that we can't do it
zinc mauve
without running the numbers it can be hard to tell really
summer kestrel
That fucking "Shoot" casts
zinc mauve
but i know for a fact the most damage i take in dungeons is generally from ranged mobs or specific casters
summer kestrel
Non blockeable
hearty portal
Yeah I hate those
zinc mauve
'throw rock' comes to mind in reference to the meme
tall wadi
tfw when your shield can't stop projectiles
hearty portal
Should be "Throw Truck"
zinc mauve
its not even that it hits hard, it just keeps throwing them constantly so it adds up super fast
plus half the packs its in already have casters
hearty portal
And it feels really funky to try to LoS them aswell
zinc mauve
for example the pack in Tol Dagor before the wolf boss; the pack with the warden has 2 casters, a warden at low health (full if theres an infested) and the cursed throw rock
hearty portal
Like they finish their cast, then they stand there for like 5 seconds
before moving
static lance
except for Brewmaster and Warrior, every tank's active mitigation ability is an armor increase.
which only affects physical damage.
zinc mauve
it would be interesting if we had an ability to 'throw' a mob, or perhaps a talent that would give shockwave a knockback
atleast it would give us some utility for pushing mobs aroudn asides from LOS
hearty portal
which ones have the best passive mitigation? Dk's bloodshield or?
hearty portal
Like mastery and shit
hearty portal
You don't press an ability
stone crag
paladin probably
junior igloo
Depends on whether you consider stagger a mitigation ๐
near turtle
Versatility is still dope for prot even though haste supplanted it as stat priority
If you want passive
zinc mauve
vers and mastery are equal i believe in terms of usefulness, or so ive read
im no theorycrafter and I don't know the math so I wouldnt be able to tell you if one is definitively better, even if its by a meagre amount
hearty portal
Really comes down to what you're fighting but overall they should end up pretty equal
I mean mastery doesnt do shit against magic
near turtle
They have simplified the game so much that is true
hearty portal
or range attacks, or bleeds
zinc mauve
if i were to guess, vers might be better if your shield is sub-par since crit blocks mitigation is based on your shield
hearty portal
Vers is pretty much always usefull, while mastery isnt
But when mastery isnt useless it mitigates alot of damage
stone crag
well yeah, mastery is the spec's gimmick
and gimmicks don't work everywhere
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
hearty portal
Except if you're a DK, then you work everywhere
near turtle
Haste > vers > mast imho
static lance
Not on necrotic week
hot locust
blood shield is only phys damage
near turtle
The game pretty much forces you to focus ilevel anyway though it seems
junior igloo
Secondary stats are well balanced.
hearty portal
Maybe give crit some more value
junior igloo
Crit reduces the most damage of all stats against physical damage
zinc mauve
ever since i started pushing higher and higher keys, ive slowly realized how absurd spell reflect is
just watching a mob chunk itself is hilarity in of itself
raven kernel
Bosses too
tall wadi
what boss can you reflect?
hearty portal
Alot
zinc mauve
Festering Strike from Lord Waycrest
summer kestrel
Eeh
Quick question about that
When reflecting on ghuun
It drops the reflected dot on someone else?
hearty portal
From reading the reddit post, was the main changes that was brought forth: Increase rage gain, Decrease cd on SB, Increase IP absorb/make it dynamic with the rage spent?
summer kestrel
Because it feels thats what happens
Bounce from warrior to ghuun and back to some other guy
zinc mauve
@hearty portal improve rage generation so its less -spikey- was the point for rage i believe
hot locust
@summer kestrel No thats just the animation for the spell.
If you track number of people with debuff it'll be 1 less when you reflect.
summer kestrel
Nice
near turtle
Do my eyes deceive me or does anyone else feel like pally tanking is easy mode compared to ours?