protection

[grim prism]

@orchid plover we have more magic tools than most specs already tbh

[uneven mason]

So Holycow

[vagrant cape]

Oh, baseline, I mean, yes. It would be good. There's not much discussion. It'd be OP as fuck

[old zephyr]

"while ravager is active you critblock everything, including ranged and spell"

[uneven mason]

Remove crit block - add in spell blocking

[amber siren]

@vagrant cape I'm in-game rn, ravager does 2534 dmg over 8 seconds. Devastate does 2458. It's honestly a dead talent and it can't compete with anything over any row in it's current state and it would require it to be even more ridiculous and spec dependent than bolster, BV and AM

[uneven mason]

and DOT blocking

(Dunno how it works but fuck yeah DoT blocking)

[grim prism]

While ravager is active, random files will be deleted from your wow directory

👍

[old zephyr]

You can patch your bleed with that free hand

[vagrant cape]

I don't get how talents like ravager exist. I could understand if it were some kind of ability gained by an azerite trait or an artifact weapon, but if it's actually meant to compete with AM I just don't get it.

[uneven mason]

IP reduces double damage against Damage over time effects

@vagrant cape Ravager was an amazing talent until they reduced its damage by 89%

many moons ago it did a lot of damage

so it was a solid DPS choice

the parry was just icing on the cake

[vagrant cape]

I suppose that's the blizzard way of balancing; taking turns in the OP spotlight

[uneven mason]

mind you 35% parry isn't bad over an average, its just that 1 - AM is too amazing to compete with, and 2 - Parry is RNG

[neon tangle]

I wonder if blizz intended the current prot play style, where our CDs are effectively used rotationally

[uneven mason]

yes

that is how we were for the 2nd half of Legion

They decided to keep it

[grim prism]

@neon tangle great question

[sand egret]

yeah, I'd say that's our direction tbh

[old zephyr]

35% pary is failrly strong in m-

[uneven mason]

THat is why we have SO MANY

most other tanks have 1 major and 1 minor CD on much longer CDs than ours

we have 2 minor and 2 major all with much shorter CDs

[neon tangle]

I mean we talk about what makes each tank special

[uneven mason]

Warrior CDs is what makes us special

unfortunately

[neon tangle]

We could be the CD for everything tank

[uneven mason]

they've balanced so that OUTSIDE of CDs

we're really not that durable

what they should have done is brought our base line up

so that when we're using our CDs

[neon tangle]

But right now since our non-AM damage is so high we have to burn them just for normal. Hits

[uneven mason]

we're just Demigod level of 🖕

[sand egret]

I dunno about that approach, personally

it's just dillution

[neon tangle]

Evening out our non-SB damage would free them up for more “oh shit” situations

[sand egret]

it'd be fun, for sure. But not super healthy, imho

[neon tangle]

I don’t really think using last stand and shield wall rotationally is super healthy either, it also arguably is non-intuitive

[uneven mason]

reduce SB CD to 15s base - remove block portion of Bolster, duration of last stand our IP is increased by 50% in both budgets. 😄

[next glade]

The CD are not CD if you need to use them as rotation :'(

[neon tangle]

^^

[orchid plover]

lol CD tank... welp that makes sense for current status

[sand egret]

eh

I think that's a matter of semantics, personally

[uneven mason]

like I said

[orchid plover]

then... how will they balance us in 8.1... if they buff baseline we <in theory> would be overpower

[sand egret]

but I get your point

[uneven mason]

Protection basically has the 1 major CD of other tanks

and then we use the minors rotationally

[next glade]

But i'll be happy if they remove the gcd in IP. Only that and im happy.

[uneven mason]

yeah that is the issue they face

if they buff baseline

we'll be meta *GASP CAN"T HAVE BDK NOT BE META

🙄

not blizzards favorite child

[sand egret]

lol mhmmm

[uneven mason]

I can see it now 8.1 - Bonestorm capped at 3 targets, reduced to 0.3% of health per damage

[sand egret]

I wouldn't be surprised if that ability got hit

[next glade]

When blood is op the game is not fun lol

[orchid plover]

nerf blood to the ground... ez pz

[next glade]

Better use the turnip to tank is more active than a blood dk

[old zephyr]

Another (Maybe) Great idea ravager is à creature that taunts and can be intrrcepted

[sand egret]

just bury that talent already

and open up some design space

[next glade]

Warrior needs quality of life buffs not more buttons lol

[old zephyr]

Make is baseline

[sand egret]

ugh

please no

[old zephyr]

I want all dem buttons

[next glade]

U cant click them dude u have gcd

[uneven mason]

Warriors gain that IP is buffed by blocking

[old zephyr]

Remove gcd for prot /s

[sand egret]

prot goes to .5 GCD

[next glade]

Before you needed to choose between the rage usage for damage or defense, now u need to choose the gcd too

[sand egret]

el oh el

[next glade]

Its stupid

[sand egret]

be like what up Frost and Rogues

[next glade]

I cant draw aggro from dh and survive a medium pack in m+

Ik ik i suck at tanking but still

[sand egret]

uh....

👢 🍵 👏

it solves all problems

❤

[sick sentinel]

:D

[next glade]

U cant just thunderclap from 2 DH doing 15k dps

[sand egret]

uh

[sick sentinel]

I can.

[old zephyr]

U can

[sick sentinel]

;>

[next glade]

And in skittish is harder

[sand egret]

when you're Bootyclapping for 20k yeah

[sick sentinel]

Nah it aint.

[old zephyr]

You shouldo more Damage than them anyway

[sand egret]

if there is one thing we don't have problems with, it's aggro

[uneven mason]

Only time a HDH rips aggro offa me in M+ is if he's an idiot and hits his lazurs

before I

[sand egret]

(not that I admit we have a lot, but still)

[uneven mason]

am in range

[next glade]

Im not sure about that, aggro feels very weird this patch

[uneven mason]

Mebbie is u

[sand egret]

I'm prety confident most of this channel will say somethng like the above

[next glade]

Yeah maybe

[old zephyr]

Do you use Unstopable force ?

[sand egret]

if you're using UF+ Avatar + DCrash

[uneven mason]

Avatar - charge - TC - DS - TC - (Rev or IP what u need) TC - ETC

[sand egret]

your dps in aoe situations should be consistently high

PRE-AVATAR

[steel mauve]

Ya aggro is really a non issue unless a warr or dh charge in before you and does their big aoe cds

[sand egret]

i can't stress that enough

[next glade]

Hmm pre avatar?

[uneven mason]

yeah

[sand egret]

as in, pop THEN charge

[next glade]

Thats my problem then

[uneven mason]

save that GCD

[next glade]

And if u ask me its stupid haha

[uneven mason]

if you're going 3 GCDs before you cast a single TC

[steel mauve]

Ya always avagar then charge on aoe pacns

[uneven mason]

1 - don't do that

[steel mauve]

Packs

[uneven mason]

2- thats why

[next glade]

Fucking GCD

Ty guys

[uneven mason]

0_o

[old zephyr]

Avatar charge TC ds TC

[uneven mason]

TFW the GCD isn't the problem

[sand egret]

it's just part of the game, not point in trying to fight it

[steel mauve]

Ava charge then tclap then demo shout

[sand egret]

just learn to play it

[next glade]

Yeah yeah

Dude, it doesnt feel right.

Just saying that

[uneven mason]

feels fine to me

[next glade]

Maybe you got used to it

[sand egret]

it won't when something that's been one way for a while changes

but that's literally anything

[next glade]

But the jump from legion was pretty weird

[uneven mason]

yeah I kind've just played beta exclusively for the last month of it

[sand egret]

I've gotten used to it and don't really notice it anymore, personally

[uneven mason]

so I acclimated myself to how prot plays

way before it became an issue

[steel mauve]

I barely notice the gcd any more honestly

[sand egret]

Yeah, I started being less reactive and more proactive

[next glade]

Yeah

[uneven mason]

^^^^

[sick sentinel]

4

[uneven mason]

What Bladesong said there

[sand egret]

Legion taught us to be reactive

[uneven mason]

That is like "The Secret"

of Playing prot

[sand egret]

but the warrior has NEVER been

a reactive tank

period.

[uneven mason]

Lets admit it

end of Legion

[sand egret]

That's what the blood design is

[uneven mason]

taught us to be buttonmashers

[sand egret]

we got a taste of it

[uneven mason]

cause you could bind IP to everything

[sand egret]

like crack

[steel mauve]

You have to be proactive as prot, especially need to be thinking 10 steps ahead and understand the mechanics inside and out

[uneven mason]

and just roll your face

[next glade]

Ok ok but

[uneven mason]

that saying "Mind the Gap"

thats what you've gotta do

know your gaps

and cover them

get ahead of the damage

[next glade]

If you need to maintain a buff up

[uneven mason]

Prot has NO way

[old zephyr]

Warrior should never have oh shit moment.
You see it happen before hand and make sure it Doesn't

[next glade]

Why make it 1.5m cd

[uneven mason]

to recover once you're behind the damage curve

[next glade]

Or 45 cd

Feels weird

[uneven mason]

45s CD - lasts 20s

[orchid plover]

huh, i was afraid of going prot ... but i got inspired by ur words

gotta ding 120 today

[uneven mason]

🤔 thats almost 50% uptime bro

[next glade]

Ik and thats why it feels weird

[uneven mason]

I guess

[next glade]

If you want me to maintain it like SB and IP

[uneven mason]

keep at it, it'll feel less wierd

[next glade]

And press it when is off cd

[steel mauve]

With DC you should be able to keep demo shout up 60% and some fights above 70%

[next glade]

I feel like they didnt reworked right the class. Even if it works.

[sand egret]

Granted with AM, but honestly my CDs always line up pretty nicely

[old zephyr]

Don't bother with ip, press it when you have à free gcd

[sand egret]

Unless I fuck up (which very much happens) I don't really feel myself "fighting" with my character

[old zephyr]

Unless you gonna cap that rage

[sand egret]

when I do, it's 99% me using a SB charge during Last Stand or using Last Stand too early

[old zephyr]

I had à healer say to me once
"I like healing you, I don't have to drink before pull, I drink during pull"

[next glade]

I dont mean that the class doesnt work. I just feel that the intended desing clashes with the changes of bfa.

[sand egret]

I see, I just disagree in what you're assuming is a) intended design and b) what it means to "clash"

[uneven mason]

Its certainly intended design (Possibly not DC with UF and AM, but AM with everything else)

[sand egret]

As how I see it, BFA Prot Warrior is very much supposed to play methodically and reward proactive approaches to tanking. IP on the GCD, a bunch of shorter mitigation cooldowns, all speak to me as a step in this direction. That being said, I will admit there are some issues with numbers and a few outliers (DC, Bolster/AM talent tiers) but overall I do see it more or less in line

[uneven mason]

We suffer from a few key things but survivability isn't really one of them.

[sand egret]

I'm personally looking forward to see how they want to take Prot with 8.1. BFA style Prot actually made me switch to it as my main, despite the "perception". It's just a lot of fun.

[uneven mason]

yup

I had to step back as progression tank (because of IRL not because they asked me too) most fun I've had on my warrior in years, and I play pretty much nothing but warriors since 2004

[mellow bridge]

I actually get wait listed so much for high keys

insane

Most of the time they inv me anway but gotta wait 4 mins to see if a better tank shows up

talking about tens or higher

[lusty grotto]

well this is a change of the usual bitching and moaning lol

👢 🍵 👏

[mellow bridge]

like

we both fkin know you probably wont find a better tank in the tool

either ask in discords or just invite me

_>

[lusty grotto]

yeah the stigma kinda fucking hurts us a lot

[mellow bridge]

if I was a bad DD I'd get it, but how many good tanks will you find in the tool for 10+

[lusty grotto]

the last time there was a stigma that bad was with monks in legion and then the stigma turned completely around

funny how that works

[mellow bridge]

oh yeah I remember that

at the start of Legion

[lusty grotto]

right

[mellow bridge]

altho from good players I mostly heard that Monk is aight, just has a high skill floor

[lusty grotto]

honestly though

i'm really not looking forward to prot ezmode

if they do something i'd rather they keep the skill cap as is

[mellow bridge]

What changed from Monk in legion to go from "high skill floor" to "easiest tank right with bdk"

Just better numbers?

Or did they change skills

[lusty grotto]

i can't recall, i didn't have a monk back then

[crystal night]

Hey guys, im trying to figure out which 3 outer ring traits are ideal for us

[lusty grotto]

icyveins guide

[dusk locust]

lol speaking of getting waitlisted i'll do you one better. prot war + ele shaman trying to queue for 10+ keys

[lusty grotto]

☝

[crystal night]

would it be Deafening Crash, High Haste proc Uldir trait, and one brace for impact

[mellow bridge]

lmfao

[crystal night]

Im on the website right now

[mellow bridge]

gl Kauda

[lusty grotto]

it's deafening crash and whatever has higher ilvl

read the icy veins guide

or the pins

[dusk locust]

and i'm like 980 score

[crystal night]

doesnt specify wether Archive of the titans is btter than having 2/3 Brace for impact

[lusty grotto]

higher ilvl > all

[crystal night]

lol man, im on the site right now thats why I came here

[lusty grotto]

use whatever has higher ilvl

both are good

if you have equal ilvl pieces... then

[wheat bronze]

Also depends if you have reorgination array from another slot

[crystal night]

2/3 brace for impact isnt better than 1/3 archive of titans haste and 1/3 brace?

ok so then it would be 1/3 brace, 1/3 archive, 1/3 deafening/

[lusty grotto]

array only applies to uldir, so it depends on the content you do

[crystal night]

I meant Reorigination Array

[lusty grotto]

ok once again, are these equal ilvl pieces

[crystal night]

Yes

[lusty grotto]

so 2 archive means double the str

[crystal night]

yeah i read somewhere they dont stack

[lusty grotto]

what's the content you are mostly active on?

they do

[crystal night]

M raid prog

we're on Zek Vos

[lusty grotto]

how much array do you have?

300 haste?

[crystal night]

and been trying to get over 800 .io score

I beleive so, ive killed over 3 each week since release

[lusty grotto]

use 1 archive and 1 brace

imo

[crystal night]

ty dog

thats what i couldnt figure out

[wheat bronze]

My highest level deafening crash is still 340, feelsbad

[sand egret]

welcome to the club

[lusty grotto]

it boils down to how much defensive value you gain from double the STR versus BFI

yeah mine as well

340 shoulders

[crystal night]

did you do the world boss this week? @wheat bronze

Has 370 deafening on it and Gemhide

[mellow bridge]

isnt it 355

[lusty grotto]

355 yeah

[mellow bridge]

and I did + rerolled and didnt get it 😭

[lusty grotto]

i got AP like usual

😦

[mellow bridge]

I got one of the other pieces

which are useless garbo to me

straight into the scrapper

[crystal night]

Dude the Mother helm is so fucking good for us

[wheat bronze]

Not yet but I did get Lion's Roar Shoulders, which are pretty damn good

[crystal night]

we can use it for Reorigination Array or Brace

[grim prism]

Mom Hat OP

[lusty grotto]

yeh mother help

oops helm

[crystal night]

How come the Icy veins doesnt mention anything about the mother helm?

[grim prism]

It does

Its in the BiS section

Somewhere

[wheat bronze]

It was nice when the mom helm dropped week 1 mythic

[lusty grotto]

yep

specifically the gear section

[crystal night]

I jsut gother down this week on mythic

[wheat bronze]

It's like, okay, well, guess head slot is done for the tier

[lusty grotto]

i only got normal mode helm 😦

nobody wants to invite me to heroic without aotc

[crystal night]

ahh i found it

[lusty grotto]

😦 😦 😦

[crystal night]

holy fuck

i jsut got the shoulders lol

damn it man, i got 370 shoulders with bloodsport

should be worth if i swap out my 340 helm for a normal mode helm from mom

[frosty wedge]

my friend is an asshole - he has 2x 385 azerte pieces from weekly chests

[crystal night]

sheesh

[frosty wedge]

yeah but he's not even wearing a DC piece

so...

I'm annoyed

lol

[plain vapor]

i dont have a dc piece and i have 2 385 pieces

😦

[crystal night]

LOL what a douche

lucky man

but why no DC

[frosty wedge]

also fucking like... 395 mythic 8 titanforged boots

I have 0 loot luck

[crystal night]

Ice veins says f your current Azerite piece has Deafening Crash Icon Deafening Crash on it, you only want to replace it with another piece that has Deafening Crash on it. No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides.

" No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides."

so he needs to go do freehold or something lol

its worth.

[plain vapor]

i have a 340 piece with DC on it but i cant be fucked to wear that over my 385

[frosty wedge]

you're actually worse off using that 385

tha you are using the 340

[plain vapor]

doin just fine without it

[frosty wedge]

sure, but you'd be doing better with it.

[stark sage]

🤦

[crystal night]

No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides.

No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides.

No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides.

No amount of additional item level outweighs the benefit Deafening Crash provides.

NIbba

gimping urself

[lusty grotto]

@plain vapor .....

[grim prism]

🇫

[frosty wedge]

"I'm doing just fine with one leg, hopping's not that bad"

[crystal night]

Hey, to each their own i guess 😛

[lusty grotto]

let me explain the value of DC yet again... it extends DEMO SHOUT which reduces ALL DAMAGE @plain vapor

[crystal night]

its basically 20% DR for like 30 seconds

[grim prism]

!GriffsUptime

[crystal night]

if u combo shout with avatar Tclap spam

also amazing in M+

20% dr from all adds hit by it

also increases ur damage

[grim prism]

Its 25% DR for more than 30 seconds

[lusty grotto]

👢 🍵 👏

[crystal night]

Yeah mroe than that i was just throwing a random number in there

[lusty grotto]

bootyclap

[grim prism]

Im agreeing and reinforcing lol

You werent wrong, you just werent right enough 😎

[crystal night]

For sure haha ty sir

Dude ive been fucking up HARD

i havent been PVPing enough

2 of the 3 best chest peices for brace for impact are from pvp 😦

whoooops

[frosty wedge]

nothing will make me pvp

lol

[lusty grotto]

just to be clear Scottie, BFI isn't really a required trait

[tidal fjord]

Prot PvP is hellllla fun

[lusty grotto]

you don't really have to fucus on gettin git

[tidal fjord]

Disruption master

[grim prism]

@tidal fjord how lol

All youre disrupting is your own schedule

[frosty wedge]

I'm using 1x DC and 2X IF

[lusty grotto]

i'm doing arms BGs as alliance spy right now, while i wait for my flight

[frosty wedge]

I'm happy with that, lol

[lusty grotto]

orcs get turned into stupid dwarves

[crystal night]

Yeah i currently got 355 with BLoodsport and Alabative Shield

the Alabative shield feels really nice

[grim prism]

It doesnt matter if youre reducing all damage by 25% if your own shitass DPS is less than the difference caused by your pvp talents lol

[lusty grotto]

my mog so ugly as an alliance spy

[crystal night]

but i know its not the bst

[frosty wedge]

I have the opposite problem of everyone else btw

I have a 370 helm with DC on it

and 2x 340 azerite pieces

because my m+ chest likes to give me bracers

always

[tidal fjord]

Thunderclap Root PvP talent

DRAGON CHARGE

Demoshout

[lusty grotto]

haha

[tidal fjord]

You're in there fuckin shit up and making people's lives awkward

I grab the 50% TC radius increase

and be stun mc-root guy for BG's

[crystal night]

Damn the pvp chests have lifespeed on them too! >.<

[plain vapor]

the conquest cap reward gives shoulders with DC on it i think right

for this week

355

[grim prism]

I'm pretty sure the only way to kill someone as a prot war in pvp is by dragoncharging them off a cliff or having them eventually die of boredom irl

[crystal night]

LOL

[frosty wedge]

LOL

[crystal night]

so i got a noob question

how do I get the pvp azerite chest? do i have to wait till its a reward on my honor bar? or do i gotta progress throught he conquest gearing railroad blizz has made for me

[plain vapor]

cap your conquest for the week

and then on tuesday/wednesday you go to the pvp hub and the chest is there

oh

yeah

[keen spire]

he means

[frosty wedge]

he means chest slot

[keen spire]

the gear

[plain vapor]

wait for it to be a reward yes

[frosty wedge]

lol

[keen spire]

yeah

[plain vapor]

you can just cap it over and over to catch up

[crystal night]

NICE

okay thanks so much guys

i thought I was fucked

[plain vapor]

yeah i need to cap like 3 more times to get the DC shoulders

[frosty wedge]

gross

[steel mauve]

Same, i havent done pvp at all

[tidal fjord]

do itttt

[crystal night]

so after I cap and get this stupid 1h its telling me ill get

there will be a new peice of gear and a new conquest bar to fill?

[lusty grotto]

yes

[tidal fjord]

^

[crystal night]

ty so much guys

[lusty grotto]

it's a way to catch up to this week

should be 4? or 5 bars?

not entirely sure but should be the same as the amount of weeks conquest rewards have been active

[west kayak]

So... 355 Blockades deck or 355 Jes Howler? My other trink is a 375 STR.

[lusty grotto]

blockades

[west kayak]

Should I just go with Blockades and Jes then? The 375 is the trinket from Vectis.

[lusty grotto]

syringe?

[west kayak]

Aye

[lusty grotto]

use blockades and syringe

syringe has more str

at 375

[west kayak]

Thats what I have been using but I finally got a Howler only to have it be lower level...

[lusty grotto]

jes is good but not at that ilvl

unless you absolutely need the small oopmh of versatility

[robust bronze]

is this any good stats without any into the fray stacks?

[lusty grotto]

which you shouldn't

[west kayak]

Ran over 20 Tol Dagor as Prot and never saw it drop. Tried out Arms on a +4 and got it...

[lusty grotto]

yeah it hasn't dropped for me either

@robust bronze sure as long as you're wearing the highest ilvl of armor and a DC piece you should be fine, stats windows really don't matter

[lofty nexus]

folks, just lvl'd a prot warrior, just one quick question - IP to cover gaps in SB, or IP to handle most situations? i do plan on looking it up, just looking for fast frame of reference

[lusty grotto]

can't really do a comparison

IP to burn rage @lofty nexus

[lofty nexus]

ahh, thx

[lusty grotto]

so sure

you can use it when you don't have to cast SB

[robust bronze]

@lusty grotto just got 355 pvp DC item so we good. i dont main tank tho so got no hige ilvl azrite yet

[lusty grotto]

you wanna cover SB gaps with Last Stand + Bolster talent

[mellow bridge]

always keep up SB when you can block stuff

use IP to fill

[lofty nexus]

thx

[lusty grotto]

and of course always keep IP up on spell damage (WITH DEMO SHOUT!!!)

[hushed ravine]

If I’m 360 ilvl with a 340 1h/s and no prot Azerite trates, how high of a M+ you think I could do ?

[lusty grotto]

no Deafening Crash?

[signal plover]

You can finish a 10 but prolly not on time. Also likely to have trouble finding a pug at that lvl.

[lusty grotto]

you absolutely need DC @hushed ravine

[uneven mason]

Depends how good you are

how good your healer is

how good your pug is

I mean

[signal plover]

Also need to know what you're doing yeah

[uneven mason]

If you're doing prot as a side gig

[lusty grotto]

it'll be rough if you can't maintain demo shout without DC

[uneven mason]

you're probably going to have a tough time fimishing a +5

[lusty grotto]

but yeah sub 10 you should be fine

[hushed ravine]

Damn I can find groups for +6 easy as fury but I was thinking rolling prot and doing it myself

[uneven mason]

Lol

[lusty grotto]

i mean

[uneven mason]

^^^ that is literally the general response most folks give to protection warriors

Cause "we need love"

But,

We're actually just dandy and fine

just not going to break speed records

[lusty grotto]

unless you don't know how to maintain demo shout + sb

[uneven mason]

Yeah, I'd get a DC trait at least for prot

the others can slide

[hushed ravine]

I was told that prot couldn’t pour water out of a boot even if the instructions were on the heal

[lusty grotto]

they'd be wrong, but you need to know what you're doing

[uneven mason]

Prot isn't bad - there are a lot of people playing prot badly

[hushed ravine]

Well when all other tanks are like pure aoe

[uneven mason]

Every other tank more or less is a reactive toolkit

We're the most pure AOE

you'll ever see

[hushed ravine]

Oh ?

[uneven mason]

UF + BV + Avatar = BigD DPS

[hushed ravine]

Other than SW and tclap

What’s aoe ?

[uneven mason]

TC is all you need

[lusty grotto]

avatar + tc + demo shout

[hushed ravine]

:thonk:

[uneven mason]

We do more DPS than most DPS in AE

[lusty grotto]

skittish is cake for us

[hushed ravine]

:thonk:

[rapid lintel]

hm

[hushed ravine]

Well I’ll get a dc piece I’ll check if I can restore one I might have DE

❤️

[wild atlas]

You’re making my brain hurt man.

[pale garnet]

My healers are having a hard time keeping me up on P2 of Zul. Tanking Zul in middle and running out to edge with 3 seconds left but the DOT is draining me. Do I just have to spam IP rage is lower because I’m moving About 20 yards from group because I’m dying and don’t want to drop in center.

Anyone have a good strategy for P2?

[wild atlas]

In skittish, you can weave tclap and revenge and it’s literally unnoticeable affix

Do you have a Paladin in your team @pale garnet ?

[pale garnet]

For a healer yes

[wild atlas]

Have him use BoP on you. The instant you get to 2 or 3 stacks (I do 3 first), leap out to the edge, call for immediate BOP, then charge back to boss

[pale garnet]

O ok does that clear it

[wild atlas]

Immediately, yes

[lusty grotto]

bop clears bleeds yes

since forever

[pale garnet]

Awesome thank you that will be really helpful

[wild atlas]

On the follow ones, use shield wall if you don’t have another BoP available (or if you still have Forbearance)

I do 3 stacks first because I know the bop will clear them immediately.

[pale garnet]

Ok I’m will do

[wild atlas]

And thereafter I take no more than 2

[lusty grotto]

also remember to keep demo up

it helps

[pale garnet]

Right

[lusty grotto]

shouldn't have to say it since we depend on demo for everything but still

[pale garnet]

Sweet tyvm

[wild atlas]

@pale garnet one more tip: after you’ve been BoP’d, I would create a macro to /cancelaura the Hand of Protection buff that remains

It will prevent you from taunting the boss

And cause your cotank to panic

[pale garnet]

Ok i can get that

[wild atlas]

You can click it off, but I think it’s easier to bind it to like taunt or a unique macro

What class do you co-tank with?

[uneven mason]

Can't swap at 2 stacks ><

[steel mauve]

I have a cancel bop in my shield slam, and use it if its on cd while i have bop up that i need to lose

[uneven mason]

add it to taunt 😉

[steel mauve]

On zul though i wouldnt want the boss right after dropping stacks

[uneven mason]

I take it to 4

but thats only HC

In theory both tanks could do 3

but I haven't had a co tank stable enough

to teach thme how to handle more than 2

like every 2 weeks I'm getting a new copilot

tanking is "hard"

[frosty wedge]

I wish my schedule was stable enough to raid, Uldir is actually not a bad raid

[keen spire]

I found out the hard way the Stoneform doesn't clear Zul's bleed

so wtf is it classified as

if not a fuckin bleed

[uneven mason]

Its a bleed

[keen spire]

Blizz y u do dis

[uneven mason]

Its a bleed, just flagged as non curable

[keen spire]

Stoneform would be so dope against it

goddamnit

[uneven mason]

Fire Soul

my friend

Also Stone form does reduce its damage by 10%

so there is that

since its physical damage from the DoT

[keen spire]

So wait

the Dark Iron racial clears it

[uneven mason]

no

[keen spire]

oh

[uneven mason]

But

I'm Dark Iron

[keen spire]

I'm reggo dorf

the OG

[uneven mason]

and I like the extra little 2400 nudge on my IP casts

[keen spire]

hm.

[uneven mason]

but since the DoT ticks for insane amounts

the normal dwarf racial is pretty amazing vs it

10% extra DR

[frosty wedge]

dark iron just take 1% less physical dmg right?

[uneven mason]

yeah

[keen spire]

I just stoneform at 3 stacks and SW at 4

then leap the fuck out and get BoPped

[uneven mason]

I make my healers eat a dick and don't use any CDs for my 2nd set of 4!

[keen spire]

lol

[uneven mason]

kidding

Guardian spirit is literally the greatest CD ever invented for Zul's bleed

60% extra healing

then you can leap out as it expires and the Guardian will pop and heal you as you charge back in

[keen spire]

.......................................................................................

[uneven mason]

Yeah

make one of those Dick priests go holy

be a real healer

[keen spire]

you have just downed Heroic Zul for my guild, Mac

I thank you

[uneven mason]

BoP the first

[keen spire]

ye

[uneven mason]

Guardian the 2nd

boom

[keen spire]

GS the 2nd

ye

[uneven mason]

Also

using a raid CD on transition isn't ill advised

so many logs I see of folks choking to death when Zul first pops up

[keen spire]

yeah, we've got everything down

it's just that 2nd set of bleeds man

[uneven mason]

because their raid is like WATS DEVOTIONAURA?

[keen spire]

xD

[uneven mason]

Or one of my teams

2 disc priests

1 total barrier

THE ENTIRE FIGHT

[keen spire]

.........

[uneven mason]

I popped a bloodvessel in my brain

I wanted to print out 500 copies

of that log

and then roll it up

and beat them like bad dogs

[keen spire]

rofl

[uneven mason]

3 warriors, - I was the only Rally

[keen spire]

omfg

[uneven mason]

FFFFFFFFFFFFF

[keen spire]

I hate that shit

[uneven mason]

yeah we've fixed that

I convinced them all to spen into the buffed Rally

fuck the other 3rd tier

[keen spire]

Every time I use rally, I even call it out "You now have extra health"

[uneven mason]

12second 15% + 6000RC

[keen spire]

ye

[uneven mason]

Keep em rolling

40seconds of "we're doing alot better now arn't we"

[keen spire]

lol

I'm the only warrior in my team now. :c

[uneven mason]

Like hey Fears inc

cast a barrier

so when we dispell them

it doesn't hurt so much

[keen spire]

lol

[uneven mason]

Zul is really just a huge "are your healers stupid" check

[keen spire]

well

yes and no

the dps need to fucking stun the hexer to stop the congealed blood casts

and interrupt the other cast

THAT shit gets me

like.. you know it's coming

stun them so they can't drop adds to heal the boss

duhhhhhhhhhhh

[sand egret]

this conversation is exactly why I stopped raiding haha

[keen spire]

What about it?

expressing our discontentment with people who don't use their goddamn abilities?

[sand egret]

I'm just over content that requires more than 4 other people do think in

[keen spire]

LOL

[sand egret]

totally respect the raiders

I just been there done that

[keen spire]

fosho

[grim prism]

Same tbh

[signal plover]

So the stun on the hexers doesn't trigger the CD on the ability anymore. We just let the blood cast go off, nuke blood then nuke hexer. P1 is all about target switch.

The stun was mildly helpful during prog I guess

[uneven mason]

first hexer should never hit 100 energy - your DPS (on HC anyway) should be gnarly enough to wreck the crusher between the hexers, have DK grip 2ndhexer in - proceed to chain stun, no blood.

optimal anyway

most guilds won't be passing that DPS check tho on their first kills

Will say though, they need to do something about that grip, being such strong util

To the point where it makes or breaks a guild capability of doing a fight

that or make DKs dog shit tier in every other aspect

just sayin

[static pilot]

we're doing progress on zul without a DK atm

it's not fun

[vagrant cape]

👏 make 👏 all 👏 casters 👏 un 👏 grippable 👏

[static pilot]

using monk antagonize + ranged interrupt to make the hexer sprint into melee is kiiiinda working

still waste 3-5 sec every time

[vagrant cape]

interrupt + kite or LoS should be your only options in a raid

[static pilot]

tbf DKs dont really bring much other utility to raids

single-target grip is handy on Zul and... where else?

[vagrant cape]

can the mythrax adds get gripped?

[static pilot]

nope 😕

[vagrant cape]

I redact my previous statement. As long as it's not a rampant thing like solo soaking in tomb it should be fine

bringing a specific class for a neat strat sounds great

as long as they give classes their own time in the limelight

priests and DKs shine on zul

[static pilot]

I'd be more okay with it if it wasn't so binary. Doing Aggramar without a DK was a shit show

[vagrant cape]

I feel like that's how mythic ghuun is going to be

boomie or bust

[static pilot]

consider a class like shaman

they have plenty of utility (short cd ranged interrupt, no cooldown purge, heroism, aoe stun)

but everything can be replicated by other classes

interrupt by DK, purge by priests, heroism by mages, aoe stun by monks

I still feel really useful when I can use my toolkit but none of it is really unique to my spec

...though come to think of it, Spirit Link Totem disagrees - not available to my spec though

[vagrant cape]

I get it, you want homogenization, but spread it around

you want a list of every utility/"unique" ability and give every class 3ish things from the list

[static pilot]

I guess... I'm okay with grips being DK unique but then other classes should have other ways to do the same thing

AOE dispel is bar none the best way to deal with zul fear adds

but shaman purge is a decent backup

[vagrant cape]

👏 Blood 👏 Elves 👏 did 👏 nothing 👏 wrong 👏

[static pilot]

in that sense Zul isnt the worst offender since antagonize + interrupt does work, just not quite as well

fair point, I play alliance so that aint really an option for me ^^

it's fine, one of these days I'm sure a raid mechanic is gonna be trivialized by Escape Artist

or shadowmeld

[uneven mason]

So on Zul and Zek the DPS gains from Grip are extremely noticeable adding a BDK as my OT we went from beating the 3rd Crusher by 1.5 seconds (no DK) to being able to literally CC the 2nd round of Hexers and just blow Zul up because the first set dies so fast

[uneven mason]

Zek the Phase 1 gain is pretty noticeable, 2 eyebeam phase ftw

[vagrant cape]

I'm alliance as well so I'm just so irked at all the faction imbalance. I wish I never swapped to alliance. I didn't realize how good the horde had it.

[uneven mason]

But yeah I mean, Its not that Grip is allover the place

its just that when Grip is useful

its on par with required

[static pilot]

which again wouldn't be so much of an issue if there were multiple ways of getting it

[uneven mason]

right

that is my thought

[sand egret]

Well Alliance has two races with self-dispels so like

[uneven mason]

Give warriors the barbarian chain

from D3

[vagrant cape]

Easier Siege, blood elves...

[uneven mason]

shit on a 1min CD

[frosty wedge]

it's funny, all my super hardcore raiding was done in vanilla when the imabalnce was the other way

[sand egret]

WHO REMEMBERS HUHURAN

DWARF

MASTER

RACE

[frosty wedge]

and Alliance had all the fun and horde got fucked

[uneven mason]

@frosty wedge Because fearward

and paladins

[frosty wedge]

like for Nefarian

[uneven mason]

"Divine Intervention cheese"

[sand egret]

Hu

Hu

Ran

[frosty wedge]

huhuran was the worst.

[sand egret]

25 dwarfs

immunity to enrage phase

GFG

[frosty wedge]

but for nef - alliance just had to deal with a bubble

[sand egret]

oh yeah

[frosty wedge]

while I had to tank nef with fucking windfury

[lusty grotto]

Horde didn't have to farm resist gear for vesuvius or what's his name though

[sand egret]

windfury nef

LOLOLOL

[uneven mason]

Yeah

[lusty grotto]

For aq40

[uneven mason]

To be fair

Horde did a fuckton more damage

[frosty wedge]

windfury nef was so broken

[sand egret]

the biggest imbalance was the world first race for tier 3

[uneven mason]

because of that same windfury

[sand egret]

for one, simple reason

[frosty wedge]

naw... alliance had KINGS

[sand egret]

Blessing

of

[frosty wedge]

10% all stats

[sand egret]

Kings

[uneven mason]

Yeah

but you had to bring a paladin

to get it

which is a DPS loss

[lusty grotto]

Yeah kings and salv!!

[sand egret]

meant tanks could meet the 10k hp they needed for Patchwerk

while horde had to farm AQ40

[lusty grotto]

Paladins could heal fine

[sand egret]

to get the stam to do it

[lusty grotto]

You took them as heals not dps or whatevrr

[sand egret]

literally one faction could skip a tier

[vagrant cape]

the problem with self-dispels is that you use one ability to save your bacon. whereas blood elves can use one ability to kill an entire pack of adds in king's rest or to remove tens of thousands of health due to shields.

[uneven mason]

How does one heal when you're casting blessing of kings every 5minutes and spending the in between time

drinking

[frosty wedge]

ugh, every tank in 4 pieces of dreadnaught before even looking at patch

[sand egret]

@vagrant cape and what if dispelling a DoT on yourself did X damage in an AoE, gave a damage buff, etc.

then its the same thing

currently AoE dispel is king due to stuff needing it way more

[vagrant cape]

@sand egret well if there were content where that actually mattered more than a mass dispel, that'd be awesome

[sand egret]

that's what I'm saying

[thorn yarrow]

all Im gona say is /cough Perception not pve related but nuff said

[sand egret]

its not the racials per se, but the content that enables them

[uneven mason]

Course I mean I dunno

[lusty grotto]

It's also because of dispel CD but that has been so since legion so

[sand egret]

you can see the invis guys in AD

^_^

[thorn yarrow]

^

[uneven mason]

I literally didn't have an alliance character above level 25

Until Cataclysm

Cause GREENBOYS

[thorn yarrow]

I cant wait for Classic release an watch these new kids on Rogues can blown back by 40 yard invis detection on demand lel

[lusty grotto]

I was alliance from vanilla to wod

[uneven mason]

GIT GREEN

[junior ivy]

i have a qwuestio nabout classic

will warriors be able to be gnomes

[lusty grotto]

Yeah

[sand egret]

yes

[frosty wedge]

I remember making a rogue reinstall an addon in vanilla

[lusty grotto]

They will

[sand egret]

with OP escape artist

[junior ivy]

how come

they couldnt in vanilla

[sand egret]

yeah they could

[lusty grotto]

They could

[uneven mason]

@thorn yarrow Paranoia warlock spell +++

[frosty wedge]

because he had a thing that tracked his top and bottom end damage for every ability

[junior ivy]

nope

[sand egret]

my gm was a gnome warrior

[junior ivy]

hm

are you sure

[uneven mason]

OH look a rogue - have a deathcoil

[sand egret]

yep

[junior ivy]

i thought it was TBC

[frosty wedge]

and I blocked so much that he sinister striked me for 2 dmg

[junior ivy]

i gotta look this up now

[sand egret]

100% sure

[thorn yarrow]

@uneven mason SL/SL BC lel /resil/stam stack

[frosty wedge]

and wanted that number gone

[lusty grotto]

Yes they could cat I played with 2 gnome warriors in vanilla

[sand egret]

also because I had one as well

[junior ivy]

HMMM

i dunno

[lusty grotto]

I was human but I had 2 gnome guild mates

[frosty wedge]

gnome warriors have always been a thing

[uneven mason]

yeah

[sand egret]

it was blood elf warriors

that came later

[uneven mason]

escape artist was pretty baller

[frosty wedge]

as long as I've been playing

[thorn yarrow]

still is TBH

[frosty wedge]

fking gnome warrior flag runners in warsong

[sand egret]

Escape Artist was the only reason I could beat Warriors

[thorn yarrow]

can ignore certain mechanics during fights that would normally need dispell

[lusty grotto]

Escape artist was sweet in pvp

[uneven mason]

I liked the Orc racial tho 25% chance to just flat resist stuns and disorients

[frosty wedge]

yeah

that's why i was an orc

[sand egret]

yeah that was swag

[uneven mason]

spec into Iron will Orc Arms warrior was litterally a 🖕 to Rogues

50% chance to just flat out not get stunned

[frosty wedge]

remember when shield bash dazed??!

[junior ivy]

ok

[uneven mason]

mhmm

[junior ivy]

you guys are right

[lusty grotto]

Except for invis detect human racials were absolute trash for pvp cry

[thorn yarrow]

@frosty wedge 2 words

BLAST WAVE

[frosty wedge]

😄

[uneven mason]

lol

[sand egret]

haha

[uneven mason]

the paranoia racial

[lusty grotto]

Stance dancing though

[sand egret]

fuck that guy

[uneven mason]

was like 2level boost

[frosty wedge]

I miss stance dancing

[uneven mason]

meanwhile Mr.Subt with his black shoes

[lusty grotto]

Mm mm love. Me. Some stance dancing

[frosty wedge]

I do not miss stance dancing nef fears WHILE he had windfury though.

[uneven mason]

walking around like he's 14 levels higher than your ass in steath

[frosty wedge]

fuck that

[sand egret]

remember that one time, in Vanilla, where we were given a glimpse into the future of Arms warriors?

[static pilot]

now imagine stance dancing on the GCD

[lusty grotto]

Lolll

[sand egret]

on Vael when we had infinite rage

[frosty wedge]

ugh vae

[thorn yarrow]

Ok but real talk tho can we all agree BC for warlocks as Affliction late game pvp was hella fucked SL/SL stam/Resil Stacking was OP u could solo a whole squad

[sand egret]

at a time when like

[frosty wedge]

so much dying.

[sand egret]

you couldnt buy rage as arms

[lusty grotto]

I got glad in tbc

[uneven mason]

#showtooltip
/cast [stance:1] Defensive Stance; Battle Stance

HNGGGGGGGGGG

[sand egret]

hahaha

[lusty grotto]

With a warlock of course

[sand egret]

i fucking loved stance dancing haha

Plate Druids

baybeeee

[lusty grotto]

God I don't ever want to touch vanilla, no matter how much I miss certain things

[thorn yarrow]

can we get some love for a proper reflect on a Pom Pyro plz

[sand egret]

oh double trinket Pyros

[lusty grotto]

Reflect in BC tho

[sand egret]

oh engineering fire reflect

[lusty grotto]

O

Oh shit I had forgotten about that

[sand egret]

Dire Maul babye

[thorn yarrow]

o god the terror of BC BM hunters

no fear no stun just end a fools life

[sand egret]

I can't wait for HUnters to get on classic

and run out of arrows

[lusty grotto]

Lol

[frosty wedge]

LOL

[lusty grotto]

They have to farm melee weapons too

[thorn yarrow]

watch them need to learn kiting cause their pet wont safe their asses

[sand egret]

or warlocks to realize they have one less bag than everyone else

and

DEAD ZONE

WTF GAME BUGGED I CANT SHOOT

[lusty grotto]

Hahaha

[thorn yarrow]

oof

[frosty wedge]

lol 8 yards

so good

[lusty grotto]

Those sweet hunter tears

[thorn yarrow]

"Weapon training"

[frosty wedge]

oh god

got a sword

miss miss miss miss

[sand egret]

punches level 1 mob unarmed for 2 hours

[thorn yarrow]

o man this bow I got is nice annnn this gun I never used in my life has better stats

[old night]

posted my guildmate's artwork of my prot warrior on the subreddit

first comment

[thorn yarrow]

welp time to miss for 2 hours

[old night]

"PROT OMEGALUL"

rip me

[frosty wedge]

lol

[lusty grotto]

F reddit

[sand egret]

well join us in laughing at some absurdities in Classic!

[old night]

pic for reference

[lusty grotto]

Only good wow sub is the wow pvp one

[sand egret]

Dorf!

[old night]

spicy boi to be exact

[lusty grotto]

Worldofpvp

[thorn yarrow]

@old night thats ok I had our dps DK say the same thing during Zul till he got feared off the platform an I BR right out of it

[sand egret]

so hear me out on this......

what if Blizz intentionally leaves the Cursed Blood debuff as it was in Classic.

[old night]

LOL

[lusty grotto]

Haha

[thorn yarrow]

talk shit Zul hit

[lusty grotto]

Aids aids aids aids aids

[old night]

Everyone this week in M+ was like "prot okay this week?"

bruh have you seen our cleave

[sick sentinel]

lol

[thorn yarrow]

^

[sand egret]

did you hit em with the emotes?

👢 🍵 👏

[old night]

LOL

[thorn yarrow]

STOP

lol

[old night]

god damn I love this discord

[neon tangle]

@sand egret I found 50k bullets in my alts bank

[sick sentinel]

http://mplus.subcreation.net/ consensus says we're middle of the pack this week.

[old night]

@neon tangle I have a certificate of thievery and some blinding powder in my vanilla toons bank

[sand egret]

Thistle Tea baby

[old night]

I mained rogue from Vanilla to Cata. Then came back to legion and saw the light of Prot Warrior

[sand egret]

or as I liked to call it

"That one person is dead" Tea

[native coyote]

@neon tangle I have tons of the troll rep stuff that you handed in i STV still 😛

[old night]

So is it accurate to say that vanilla players ahve no interest in classic

because everyone ive met that is circlejerking classic didnt play it

[sand egret]

been there done that

[native coyote]

Blizzard will never do anything useful with them but I'm keeping them

[old night]

I haven't met a single vanilla player that wants to play vanilla again

[sand egret]

Like I can reminisce about high school, but fuck if I'd want to go back

[old night]

same dawg

[marble pelican]

i'm a day 1 player, day 1, and I have 0 interest in classic

[sand egret]

shit was awkward and suffering from growing pains

[sick sentinel]

I'll play it again.

[sand egret]

and high school was also weird

😃

[old night]

how old are you bladE?

[sand egret]

31

[old night]

29 here

[sick sentinel]

Spent 3ish years on Elysium/Nostalrius/Lightbringer and things.

Was fun.

[marble pelican]

if people think AQ 40 was fun...no it wasnt

[vagrant cape]

Were warriors good in classic? 🤔

[frosty wedge]

I"ve been playings ince 2 weeks after launch and I have 0 interest in playing classic

[sand egret]

uh

[old night]

they were the only tanks

[native coyote]

corpse running in AQ40 ...

[sand egret]

warriors were good by default

haha

[vagrant cape]

sounds good to me

[old night]

YOU MIGHT SEE a prot pally as an OT

[static pilot]

prot warrior was literally the only tank

[frosty wedge]

hey

druids tanked

[old night]

druid? HOPE YOU LIKE RESTO

no

they didnt

lol

[marble pelican]

classes were what you make of it, the player was good or wasn't didn't matter on class

[sick sentinel]

no they didn't lol

maybe dungeons.

[brave jetty]

of course class mattered in Classic

are you insane

[sick sentinel]

but not raids.

[old night]

the only tanks in raiding were warrior and MAYBE prot pally OT

[steel mauve]

Nah fury warriors tanked

[junior ivy]

are you guys all excited for classic then?

[sick sentinel]

not in serious top tier naxx raid wanting raids.

[junior ivy]

i havent bene reading the conversation

[steel mauve]

For the first 5 seconds of a fight then they died

[old night]

HI @junior ivy ❤

[marble pelican]

no lol

[vagrant cape]

druids had the multi-role tax, right? so bears musta been bad

[junior ivy]

hiii!

[old night]

druids healed

thats it lol

[sick sentinel]

Paladins too much oom issues to tank raids unless DPS became ABSURD with gear levels to allow short duration boss fights.

[brave jetty]

Even shaman "tanked" in vanilla

[sick sentinel]

to tank

[chrome lance]

Random Observation: Finally raided last night in this xpac. Gawds it sucks compared to Legion. I am speaking to the choir. That is all. 👍

[brave jetty]

But not at a level of viability that fucking matters

Same w/non-Warrior tanks

[sand egret]

I just want to let you know, my ass tanked BWL as a druid

[junior ivy]

I MISS LEGION 😭

[sand egret]

so BOOYA

[junior ivy]

I MISS STAR AUGER

[static pilot]

😮

[steel mauve]

I wish they would just make enhance a tank spec

[old night]

@chrome lance i like uldir more than antorus tos and nighthold

[sick sentinel]

cringe.

[old night]

the fights are more interesting to me

[thorn yarrow]

Tbh atm I know Im only in heroic but i dont feel all that bad is Mythic that much worse for us?

[junior ivy]

star auger was my favourite boss of legion

[steel mauve]

It felt like they were supposed to in classic

[native coyote]

if Vanilla there won't be paladins for horde and no shamans for alliance

[vagrant cape]

star augur was fun as fuck.... I was a prot pally. things were great.

[junior ivy]

i loved star auger

[chrome lance]

Oh. Sure the zone was fine. The actually act of tanking; not so much. LOl

[junior ivy]

tbf i only did it on heroic never mythic

but i loooved star auger fight

[static pilot]

@steel mauve that would piss of a lot of players. Add a 4th tank spec to shaman instead, like druids 😃

[junior ivy]

it was so fun

[old night]

tanking in legion was so boring

SOAK THE RAID

[static pilot]

call it Earthwarden, give it earth-elemental type abilities

[old night]

TAUNT SWAP THE RAID

[junior ivy]

star auger was fun BECAUSE it wasnt boring

it wasnt 'taunt at 3 stacks'