#protection
junior igloo
@sick sentinel
Why would you crit block when you can parry? ๐ค
sick sentinel
How does this even work?
zinc mauve
an alternative to charging in and having no rage is intercepting a nearby ally and THEN charging in
random osprey
the charge is counted when it reaches the mob
sick sentinel
@junior igloo cast 
on an pull
random osprey
it's the debuff that roots them for a second
sick sentinel
Oh ok
random osprey
huh that's interesting,
sick sentinel
@zinc mauve I thought of that as well but I don't you lose all rage on pull?
zinc mauve
if it did, i wasnt aware of that
sick sentinel
And for those who doubt, about avatar being the 5th GCD have this as well
Boom, 70%
zinc mauve
mind if i have a link to the logs?
random osprey
oh no my casual heroic raid with a low-tier guild, how embarrassing
sick sentinel
Well you got a 99 parse so it's not embarrassing ๐
random osprey
on fetid i missed the avatar extension phase on the first demo, the curious tiny first demo bar
if i recall, my original point was that bloodsport was a really good trait
sick sentinel
I would say to send the link on the logs here as well
10k dps on ST as prot is definitely Pog
sick sentinel
Check this shit out boys
Should we maybe start casting ava later as well?
Almost 6th on damage done
junior igloo
Yeah, the sequence suggested makes a lot of sense
random osprey
information has been communicated, my job here is done ๐
vital wren
Does anyone else feel bad for that people are rude on Prot Warrs that it's shit nowadays?
Because I do
random osprey
yeah, it's kind of strange
vital wren
I will wait for a boost and the moment when "prot warr OP pls nerf"
Because each expansion it's been like that
How's Fetid mythic right now guys? Tanking Thrash not viable?
sick sentinel
Wouldn't MTing be better for us?
random osprey
the armor and block rescale in mythic is bad huh?
junior igloo
@random osprey
It's hard to compare Bloodsport to most other traits.
The reason is that Bloodsport adds a more or less constant amount of damage reduction.
You get 4k extra absorb per IP, so maybe 20k a minute. This number doesn't significantly change.
Most other traits give a damage reduction that scales with your damage taken because it's a percentage.
Is 2 % damage reduction more or less than 20k? That's unclear, it depends on how much damage you take.
The harder hitting the content becomes, the stronger the traits like BfI or IF are.
fathom marten
@random osprey I stand corrected. That rotation seems just as viable. Just took like 30 mins testing out both and over a 2 min fight , the differences are very small.
random osprey
@junior igloo, i agree, thanks for thats
sick sentinel
@fathom marten check the log he sent
random osprey
@fathom marten glad you agree ๐
sick sentinel
Traits like bfi and iron fortress would be good if more stuff were blockable
random osprey
still i wonder about how they do scale in mythic uldir, whether or not they do outperform bloodsport
if a warrior were spending all their excess rage on ignore pain, bloodsport would also be more valuable
i usually get something like 6-7 rage/second, 2.5 of which is spent on sb
which is about 11s per ignore pain ~ 5.5 a minute
junior igloo
FWIW I think that Marok used 25k damage taken per second when he initially mathed the comparison in the therorycrafting discord, which seems to be too high in hindsight.
So I personally agree that Bloodsport is better defensively than the current consensus. It's likely above IF and close to BfI in most situations.
But it's also worth pointing out that having more damage reduction when taking more damage is more valuable and that Bloodsport is useless offensively.
random osprey
block percentage still results in a flat rate upon total damage, implying a break point in dps taken when the block traits outperform bloodsport
tight tree
@sick sentinel Yep, block is good when you can actually block.
junior igloo
Sure.
Bloodsport is ~ 20k per minute.
BfI is 2.69 % damage reduction from blockable damage on full up-time fight, so 12.4k blockable damage taken per second.
random osprey
which at a guess i might assume is possible in high level keys and mythic uldir, though i'd have to run the numbers; against 20-27k/min
does anyone know what a boss' average swing time is?
junior igloo
Yeah, 1.5s
junior igloo
Some are 2, but 1.5 is more common
random osprey
i have a 375 shield with 4770 block rating, and IF @ 370 gives 348 block rating
the blocking constant for mythic is 9311 if i remember correctly?
junior igloo
Yes.
Now you have to calculate how many enemy hits you block and how many you critically block ๐
random osprey
my block goes from 33.88% to 35.47%, an increase of 1.6%
weighting an average of normal and critical blocks...
junior igloo
You can use the spreadsheet if you want, feel free to check the formulas:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1smbwHlquHKQpl-rJ1i3xvArHcgW681bppCZCF5zB6MI/edit?usp=sharing
random osprey
i'm almost done with my calculation
assuming 30% critical block chance, i get 2.08% increase in damage blocked
bloodsport if mitigating 20k a min, which i would assume is the lower end, gives 333 mitigation per second
if that were to equal the 2.08% from IF, it results in 16k damage taken per second
looking at logs of prot warriors doing mythic, that's close to the damage they take
except on mythic zul where isee 32k dtps
lol
and mother doing 21k dtps
junior igloo
That's not correct though. Here is how you need to do it: 33.88 block means you take 66.12 damage 35.47 block means you take 64.53 damage Taking 64.53 instead of 66.12 means 2.4 % damage reduced
random osprey
but that's relative to the previous block amount
random osprey
it needs to be relative to blockable damage isn't it?
true i assume blocking every hit which might be too generous
junior igloo
No, Ignore Pain also reduces damage after it's already been blocked
random osprey
i'm focusing on block
junior igloo
You take 66.12 damage with no trait.
The fact that you would have taken 100 damage without a shield is not relevant. You wear a shield in both instances
random osprey
2.4% is the figure relative to the previous block amount, i want to compare it to damage taken before block is factored
which is the flat difference in block%
junior igloo
Ok, but why?
If you want to compare it to Ignore Pain reduction (from Bloodsport), you need to do it after block
random osprey
it gives the dtps at which IF does more mitigation than bloodsport
it results in the same numbers
2.4% of damage after block is the same as 1.86% of damage before block
1.6%*
unless the dtps i'm seeing from logs is damage after all mitigation is accounted for
junior igloo
Hm, I see what you mean I guess.
There are both numbers in logs.
But I'm still not sure if that's correct
random osprey
the logs are confusing me, the damage break down is summing to a higher number than the one displayed
junior igloo
How do you factor armor in for example?
random osprey
armor only mitigates melee damage, so any magic damage tips the favor over to bloodsport
junior igloo
Yeah, but Ignore Pain mitigates damage after armor.
If you look up boss melee damage before mitigations, it will be before armor
random osprey
ignore pain gives a constant absorb amount so whether or not it's changed by armor isn't a relevant point
and so ignore pain isn't necessarily affected by the diminishing returns of multiple reduction sources
but block is affected because it's mitigation capacity comes straight from the damage
which is why i'm trying to compare the fractional mitigation of block among all the other damage reduction sources to the absorption/s of bloodsport, but i'm struggling to make sense of what the dtps shown in world of logs means
aside from block, there's armor, demo shout, versatility.
junior igloo
This is unnecessarily convoluted :/
My point is this:
You have 2 % reduction from block and 9311 armor.
Boss does 200k hits (pre reduction).
Does your extra block reduce 200 x 0.02 = 4k?
Or does armor reduce it to 100k and therefore your block saves 100 x 0.02 = 2k?
random osprey
warcraftlogs*
junior igloo
Same for other sources of damage reduction.
That's why I prefer to look at the final number after all other damage reductions (but that has to include pre-increase block as well).
Than you can look at actual damage taken (after reductions) in logs, which is easiest to find
random osprey
when i look at damage taken in warcraft logs, i see the bar has a solid portion and a shaded portion, the shaded portion representing blocked/staggered
but when i mouse over it, there's also a number for absorbed, and it ends up totalling a larger number than what's shown in the table
but the first two total the bar shown, okay nvm
but if that bar is total damage taken, then why is blocked/staggered damage accounted for there?
going back to the original point of exploration...
if the damage taken shown in logs is after block has been applied, then the corresponding damage before block that i've been playing around with is much higher, which means IF is far better than bloodsport
junior igloo
If you block every hit, it's better, yeah
random osprey
right, forgot about that lol
and there's also a bit of magic damage here and there in a lot of fights
blood pools in taloc, door passing in mother, void lash on zekvoz
and the spark thing too
the dot from fetid
the stacking dot from vectis
zul, mythrax, ghuun, there's a lot of unblockable damage
10-30% maybe depending on fight
so maybe bloodsport is viable in most mythic fights? zul is the only one i would count it out on
looking at logs, it's actually more like 40% of damage is magic on most fights, on zul it's 10%
and rupturing blood isn't even blockable isn't it?
junior igloo
But yeah, all this work has already been done, so it seems pointless to recreate it from scratch. That's why I did the spreadsheet in the first place ๐
The spreadsheet takes into account:
- block chance, crit block chance (depending on mastery)
- up-time on shield block (depends on haste) and Bolster where you always block
- calculates total percentage of blocked hits base on those 2 factors
- block amount based on your shield and increase based on the "Stat increase"
- percentage of blockable damage taken (default is 80 %, you can change it in the "Magic damage")
- the fact that blocked attacks are inherently less dangerous and there further reducing these hits is less valuable than reducing un-blocked hits (this "usefulness" modifier on block value is 80 % by default, you can change it)
With the default values, 580 Block Amount (2 stacks of 370 Brace for Impact) reduces blockable damage taken by 3.37 %.
Taking into account the 20 % magic damage, it's 2.69 % total damage reduction.
Taking into account the 80 % "usefulness" factor, it's equivalent to 2.15 % total damage reduction
manic perch
this is too complicated for me on a friday ๐
random osprey
though accordingly, 2 traits of bloodsport @ 370 provide 8.2k every ignore pain which gives roughly 40-50k a minute
750 mitigation a second
junior igloo
Oh, that's not 2 traits, that's 2 stacks of 1 trait
random osprey
which is 2.15% of 35k dtps
junior igloo
Because the buff from Brace for Impact lasts 9 seconds and you use Shield Slam every 4.5s
random osprey
oh okay
then the even point is 16-18k dtps, above which BFI is better than bloodsport
junior igloo
Yep, that sounds right to me.
cloud bone
here's a curveball for you guys I like BFI cus it makes big numbers appear on the screen
junior igloo
With the caveat that
- BfI does damage
- BfI gives more damage reduction on larger hits (when you need it more) and less damage reduction on smaller hits (when you need it less)
random osprey
the only fights on mythic that meet that damage break point are fetid, zul, mother
robust bronze
is wow analyser up to date for port?
random osprey
and my work here is done
whew
tldr: bloodsport is better than BFI/IF if you're taking less than 17k dps
actually, sorry, 12.5k blockable melee dps
sorry, no it is 17k blockable melee dps.
sick sentinel
HOW ABOUT: BfI on Taloc, mother,fetid and Bloodspot on the rest?
random osprey
it's zul actually, not taloc
sick sentinel
well true
random osprey
on taloc there's a lot of shadow damage
ember arrow
I thought its a trash mob
random osprey
helm of the raptor king has bloodsport, azerite veins, and impassive visage, so i think it's a pretty solid choice
junior igloo
One thing to consider is that if you are taking low damage, maybe you will prefer the damage from Revenge and BfI over the additional survivability from IP + Bloodsport.
random osprey
i would tell the healer to dps then lol
junior igloo
But of course, if you can swap otherwise equal pieces around, you can absolutely take Bloodsport on fights with low blockable damage
sick sentinel
once I realized that essence sear is not blockable I cried a bit
random osprey
do you use spell reflect though?
ember arrow
U can parry it
raven kernel
ember arrow
Ravager time????
ember arrow
15 ilvl
sick sentinel
ilvl
random osprey
the 385 is better for damage, the 370 better for mitigation
sick sentinel
that's hard
random osprey
feelsbad
sick sentinel
385
random osprey
how did you get the advanced stats to display in the character sheet?
sick sentinel
DejaCharacterStats
got that addon the minute I got legion
seeing the pruned character screen disgusts me
sick sentinel
well, you have also quick navigation I would imagine, any haste trinkets?
sick sentinel
everyone is still using their blockades :/
I used dooms fury and rezan the past 2 weeks, on wednesday I use blockades and rezan but I am still not sure tbh
with our little buff that we got ( very little but managed to push me over 200k hp ) blockades is a little bit more valuable I think
but popping dooms fury every second avatar feels good man ( and on parry-able tank busters, even though 
based mitigation is a little bit 
๐ค
supple frigate
stats prio?
kind urchin
I'm using blockades, spore trinket and one azerite veins that I got lucky to get. Spore trinket is usually right under ignore pain for healing. About 15% of my healing.
weary nacelle
may i ask what is a spore trinket?
weary nacelle
Interesting. Is that worth it?
Overall about trinkets how would you rate if we talk about top 3-4?
I personally dropped blockades for a 370 versa trinket with 1500 str on use.
weary nacelle
I really think that blockdes is falling behind any trinket above 360-65. Not sure why it is still listed as top one, it shouldnt be
but I guess i may be wrong
oh I just read the guide and it also confirms that.
frosty wedge
guide says ~15 ilvls, not 5-10 - if you have other trinkets sitting around 370+ then it will start to make sense to swap out blockades
junior igloo
For pure defense, Blockades only gets beaten by very high item level (380+) Bandages or Veiled Eye.
sick sentinel
sooooo, ( talking about the screenshot I sent above) do I replace my blockades with the 375 doom's fury?
jagged bay
hi have a nice weekend guys!
sick sentinel
thanks, u2 twin ๐
robust bronze
its Taco friday!
signal plover
@dusk locust u guys get it? We got about an hour and a half on Vectis :)
junior igloo
@sick sentinel
Blockades = defense
Doom's Fury = offense
sick sentinel
I'm sticking with blockades then ๐
signal plover
Meiffert what if the best defense is a good offense tho
sick sentinel
the best thing I can have a healer say to me during a boss is "stay alive yourself, I'm dpsing"
sick sentinel
If the boss is dead it deals 0 damage so 100% DR, amirite guys?
dusk locust
Now gotta wait until Tuesday to raid more -_-
echo egret
Spectral Berserkers and their Severing Blade stacking debuff , King's rest fortified, any hint ?
amber siren
kite
echo egret
if i kite, the debuff goes to the closest member
amber siren
it hits melee, one stack is survivable
old dawn
just yeet me into a hole and move on
hey i haven't played in a bit how does the buff feel as a warrior?
was it noticable?
amber siren
not at all
kind urchin
I have a small amount more hp.
old dawn
what if I really believe in myself?
weak zephyr
I feel like it made me strong, I've never felt this good since I had Shattering Throw back in the day.
mellow bridge
i usually take one stack of bleed and then kite
so the healer only has to heal the bleed
if there's more than one berserker, consider CC
kind urchin
It's noticable in the sense that I cam see the larger number.
old dawn
I'll see tonight when I raid, ws just curious.
midnight ferry
RaiderIO tank score doesn't tranfer to dps score, it makes no sense, feelsbadman.
mellow bridge
Why would it
echo egret
All i can think of is make that your absolute priority target for the while group, but then the other mobs are free to wreak havoc on us
mellow bridge
the other mobs arent an issue tho
midnight ferry
tank needs to be aware of all mechanic anyway, so tank score should translate to dps score
mellow bridge
eh I'm not gonna bother with this discussion lul
amber siren
just bcs you tank well doesn't mean you dps well
stone crag
๐ค
vital wren
Even the idea that PEOPLE ASK whether higher ilvl is worse or better than lower ilvl is shit.
BFA broken gg
vale gorge
I never understood that
amber siren
BFA isn't exclusive to that
amber siren
There are niche situations where people get ridiculous items they simply can't get rid of
CoF, arcano, tier sets
were I should say
But that's a slightly different argument
vale gorge
I think it's completely fine to have a BiS item
amber siren
I think it's fine to have a BiS, I don't think it's OK for a 860 trinket to sim higher than a 970
BFA was supposed to close the gap between those types of situations
But the trait system has made simming mandatory for everything so
It's kind of fallen short
vale gorge
I agree that the situation with arcanocrystal was bad
but the only reason for that was that it dropped from a world boss that only spawned once every few months
and it dropped at such a low base ilvl
next goblet
fort/bolster/skittish.. what dungeons would be cancerous as a prot war?
vital wren
pretty much everything with loads of hard trash
next goblet
so underrot
vital wren
depends on ur comp aswell
frosty wedge
underrot has a bad rap, I actually like that place
it doesn't even really have hard trash aside from the first few pulls
vital wren
me too, I love how similar Underrot is to Blood Kelp Forest biome from the Subnautica game
next goblet
and dungeon is like maw of souls this xpac?
frosty wedge
there isn't a maw
they're all long and they all kinda suck
but atal dazar is probably closest
next goblet
i think by far tho my fav is AD just cuz it drops nice tank gear lol
next goblet
and it seems to be the "easiest"
vital wren
This is not Underrot btw xD
next goblet
although waycrest manor is pretty dope too
and holy shit that is underrot lol
in a diff game
frosty wedge
waycrest is great om fortified weeks
dark junco
Lol
frosty wedge
tyrannical weeks the sisters suck something fierce
midnight ferry
350 ilvl 100 IO score carry group LF +10 Key ๐
vital wren
I went to +11 like 2 weeks back on 341ilvl prot
next goblet
how'd that go
vital wren
Pretty good, we've had frost mage, rogue, boomkin - MOTHERLODE +11, tyrannical
vital wren
Last boss is retarded af
errant wing
i did a 11 underott this week, wasnt to bad, if you use rouge to skip to 1st boss, only 5 mins over
vital wren
And with tyrannical rofl, u have to be ULTRA MEGA FOCUSED all the time because of the barrage
The orange circles that the helicopterz do
We've done it only bcs we've had a boomie that rezzed ppl like 3 times in a row in one fight hahaha
Boomkin CR is crazy
uneven mason
Folks need to take personal responsibility for not being where the orange shit falls. The boss has so little HP that its laughable as long as no one dies to stupidity.
vital wren
We've had a disc priest aswell
uneven mason
Like you could autoattack the boss while staring at the 2 floaters and beat that boss
vital wren
Bursting the dps
uneven mason
the only hard mechanic is the rocket tbh
sincei ts unavoidable damage
so if you got someone who is squish
they're going to eat it from that.
vital wren
On our first attempt we've had a frost mage
It was hilarious because he wanted to max out dem frostbolts and got rekt every time haha
uneven mason
Frostmage should be pretty unkillable on that boss
vital wren
Thought so, wasn't my intent to ask this tho
vital wren
A killer race/class would be dark iron dwarf demon hunter in pvp
vital wren
Removing everything with a racial, getting a dps boost and combined with the (remove all magic debuffs and send them back to sender thing)
Ggwp
uneven mason
Meh Demonhunter
vital wren
The glaives would bury down bcs we smol
uneven mason
Dwarves arn't actually that small tbh
I mean not compared to goblin/gnomes
they're only a little shorter than humans
which yeah, going from Playing Orcs/Tauren to Dark Iron
it was a reduction
next goblet
i wish i was horde
my guilds ally
i told them we should go horde, nobody listened lol
vagrant cape
I can only find solace in the fact that we don't have to directly compete with the horde for anything aside from PvP where it's not as big of a deal.
fallow tusk
guys regarding the Last announced changes few days ago to prot
wont save prot at all, right?
stone crag
the 1.5% buff, of course not
that's a job for PTR changes, which have yet to even happen
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
fallow tusk
im afraid its all the wanted
cinder bridge
yo, are there any guidelines for how to evaluate avoidance on gear relative item level?
fallow tusk
since they mentioned planning something for prot only after the big outcry
and that was the only change, not sure they are really working on more in depth change
since ele and shadow change by the week and they were supposed to have those ready to test for 8.1 ptr from the beginning
grim prism
@cinder bridge here is a handy guide: ilvl >>>>> avoidance
cinder bridge
ait
steel mauve
Just dont think about tertiaries, if its on gear great, but its literally not worth thinking about
uneven mason
@fallow tusk I mean, playing devils advocate here, there is literally mathematically nothing wrong with prot that needs fixing from their perspective, we're only weaker than the other tanks in some specific situations, and then M+ Utility ( we have utility, its just not pertinent for pushing speedruns and high keys)
Other tanks are weaker than us in many situations as well (such as Zek combo, or Fetid)
What is an issue, and I hope they don't "FIX" is the level of focus needed to play Protection optimally is considerably higher than all other tanking specs
which range from "Kind've have to paus netfix occasionally (Druid, VDH, Paladin) to "not really streaming porn with wow minimized" (BDK) and finally the level of ultimate tanking "Dead Chimp in a rocking chair/Bobbing Bird" (BrM)
We're punished for mistakes but not really "rewarded" for exceptional gameplay beyond we mitigate more damage than other tanks (which is not flashy, it just is what we're SUPPOSED TO DO)
While other tanks are not really punished for mistakes, but are rewarded for exceptional gameplay
junior igloo
We have some fundamental issues that go beyond being a strong/weak spec.
orchid plover
#MakeProtectionGreatAgain?
sand egret
โ inhales ahhh, another day, another back and forth about whether Prot is good or not. ๐
fallen quiver
PROT IS MY LIFE Keepo
orchid plover
#LegionLegendaryWristPassiveBuffForBaseline! #MakeProtectionGreatAgain
chrome falcon
Here's your daily reminder that Legendary Wrists would suck in BFA
Our rage generation is like, half of what it used to be
fallen quiver
What about belt? Mitigation cd
chrome falcon
And we spend it all ON the GCD
sand egret
Wait, I thought asking for the wrists was a Tuesday thing
isn't Friday back to Gladstance memes?
orchid plover
that was yesterday
sand egret
shit, I needed this coffee bad
orchid plover
#IPOutOfGCD! #MakeProtectionGreatAgain
sand egret
that was DEF yesterday
sand egret
we tabling GCD talks for the day
round vortex
Poggers!
sand egret
wooo prot porn!
steel mauve
Even ip off gcd wouldnt be a huge change to our survival
fallen quiver
๐ข
uneven mason
Heyboys
grim prism
Friday is Casual Friday, where we shitpost about how much we all hate pressing devastate once every ten globals but somehow loved it in 7.0 when it was more than half our casts by volume
round vortex
I didn't win and a ret pally traded it to me and said "Respect for playing prot warrior" we did the key in 22 mins lol
uneven mason
just do a search for "IP off " and save me the trouble of retyping it for the 200th time
grim prism
TLDR if you think taking IP off GCD will solve anything then you dont understand why prot os bad
And thats why people dont play with you
orchid plover
#BuffDevastator! #MakeProtectionGreatAgain
uneven mason
IP off the GCD would make people spend GCDs on their 2nd least favorite button.
orchid plover
for real, i miss not-spamming devastate
wary cape
Do you miss the IP dance as well?
orchid plover
u mean revenge - IP dance?
fallen quiver
Is Emblem of Zandalar + Rezan's Gleaming Eye good choise for prot for M+?
steel mauve
And i would rather devestator be baseline than buffed honestly
grim prism
@fallen quiver sure, equip them both and see what happens
uneven mason
2 things would fix prot
orchid plover
@steel mauve ! that would be even better! But i think there are some ppl that like devastate...
steel mauve
Who would like our weakest ability that we barely use
Tclap sjngle target does more dmg
uneven mason
not 100%, but we'd be pretty solid, T21 4p, and gag order.
fallen quiver
@grim prism lol, soz Rezan's Gleaming Eye*
uneven mason
Devastate is good for the 2 times i press it a minute
if you have more open GCDs than that
you're playing wrong
nova viper
Do you think making Lego bracers baseline would be a helpful change
hot locust
@uneven mason If you are playing defensively and single target you are 100% wrong.
steel mauve
Youll have more than 2 open gcds a minute
uneven mason
Ok
orchid plover
#BringBackLegionArtifactSkill! #MakeProtectionGreatAgain!
....
</sarcasm>
uneven mason
Exaggeration, obviously, its not cast often enough (possibly 10% of GCDs) to worry about though.
10-15%
steel mauve
Difference in an exaggeration and out right telling people they are playing wrong if this exact situation doesnt happen
As if its absolute
hot locust
I was actually curious how many times per minute I cast devastate so I went and looked at my logs last night. Averaged about 7.5 times per minute.
grim prism
In average stuff, not including say cheesing crawgs with no aoe
hot locust
It was also my third most cast ability at 66 casts behind TC (93 total ) and SS (77 total).
hot locust
That's on Mythrax so pretty ST the whole way.
Never really worried about touching the mind flay guys in P2 much.
old zephyr
how do you cheese crawgs with no AoE, I'm curious
because I usually avatar the #### out of them
wild bolt
It's for assassin Rogues isn't it? Or am I thinking of something else?
rapid trench
Sub
wild bolt
Ah.
old zephyr
oh yesh the sub rogue thing
wild bolt
Yellow dots are all the same to me. I assume they're Monelite nodes.
old zephyr
We don't have good enough rogues in our guild yet for that thing=)
old zephyr
gotta have some gear though
rapid trench
Anything above 350 is good enough
junior igloo
@grim prism
You have 50 % haste? ๐
uneven mason
Crawgs alive on Zul = your Rogues are literally pressing Shuriken storm + finisher heh...
old zephyr
yeah I completely forgot about that, last run we had 0 rogues in raid ๐
uneven mason
thats rough
old zephyr
maybe we'll have some next week
orchid plover
Thats... rogue
uneven mason
the difference between 0 rogues (first kill) and 4 rogues (2nd kill) was night and day
junior igloo
It's not relevant on heroic, the adds die
orchid plover
:^D
old zephyr
we are not on MM zul yet ๐
fallow tusk
@uneven mason i do like prot but i feel like i would have to play next to perfect to at least handle mplus
old zephyr
still on mother lol
fallow tusk
whereas other specs bring more survivability along with great utility
old zephyr
everyone has to play very well in M+
fallow tusk
yes we do crazy dmg
uneven mason
I mean, as much as I joke about it
you still can't be bad at the other tanks
except for bDK
you can be pretty bad at BDK
and just press skillstorm
junior igloo
Yeah, I got that you guys are not talking about mythic (since you do it without rogues ๐ )
But on heroic stacking rogues doesn't do much because they kill the adds
uneven mason
@junior igloo you have to let the cawgs get buffed by the crushers cast
they'll stay alive longer
๐
uneven mason
If you let folks kill em
junior igloo
No, on mythic when you kill something it respawns
hot locust
Even the crusher
uneven mason
I know that
on HC the 2nd crusher (amazingly not evenyone can burn that down between Hex's manysads)
hot locust
oof
I suppose I haven't really pugged this expac much yet so I'm a bit out of touch with reality in most cases.
old zephyr
I don't PUG, yet crusher cast...
junior igloo
@uneven mason
old zephyr
what's that decaying flesh stuff?
grim prism
@junior igloo im somewhere around 35%, which should be more than enough to hit the 1.2s GCD I used for the sake of eyeballing. Either that or there is something wrong with my coffee
junior igloo
old zephyr
@grim prism check you coffe
thin mortar
you're not supposed to add anything to coffee so it is never wrong.
grim prism
You havent seen the shit they serve in the kitchenette at this office
digital arrow
vietnamese coffee ftw
old zephyr
7,5 cast /min is one evry 8 sec, not every 8GCD
junior igloo
Yep, that's what I was referring to ^ 7.5 x 8 = 60
thin mortar
I feel you saq, the coffee they supply at work here is crazy bad. but no amount of additives would help
orchid plover
at least is free?
old zephyr
coffee at my office is both Great and free
junior ivy
emissaries ae sooo boring nowwwwwww
grim prism
now
orchid plover
Looks like ur office could use some freedom ๐ฆ
grim prism
Where have you been?
old zephyr
I have stoped doing them a while ago
junior ivy
true they were always boring
i just cant bring myself to dothem
i'm 3 days behind on them now
junior igloo
Yep, daily quest participation is way down.
Good thing Blizz held the Azerite pieces in their back pocket to fix it
hot locust
hopefully I can get a DC piece higher than 340 now
rocking a 340 WQ chest instead of shoulders now
since I got the shoulders off mythrax last night and need the reorigination.
We'll probably still never see DC pieces :^)
cinder bridge
yo, talking about ilvls, does ilvl > traits (save for DC)?
junior ivy
i think DC is the onlyt exception where ilvl doesn't win
otherwise it tends to be ilvl > everyhting
hot locust
Yeah pretty much.
strong forum
Especially in m+
If you are running m+ without DC, get a 340 piece of it, it's a must have for m+
cinder bridge
like I have 355 with brace of impact+lifespeed+resounding vs 370 reinforced plating+winds of war+gemhide. I've been running the 355 but that probably not correct then?
junior ivy
i didnt even understand how DC worked til yesterday, i was barely thunderclapping ๐ญ
astral crystal
gemhide is way better than resounding
sand egret
๐ข ๐ต ๐ @junior ivy !!!
cinder bridge
like how much do you value brace for impact?
strong forum
You can't put ilvl on traits except DC
cinder bridge
so ilvl > all, and have 1 DC regardless of ilvl
strong forum
For m+ yes, DC isn't as omnipotent in raids but still highly valued
cinder bridge
why is ilvl so important?
hot locust
Nah even in raid
cinder bridge
like what are we gaining from that extra str+sta compared to traits
hot locust
DC is too important.
keen spire
^
old zephyr
I have 385 BFI, 370 BFI (from mother) and 370 kraken shoulder with BFI (first M+ cache). I don't ave to bother looking for these anymore It's such a releef
hot locust
what the fuck is that luck
strong forum
Well triple BfI isn't good
hot locust
hello
Yes it is
I mean not having DC sucks
but triple BFI is as good as you could get otherwise
strong forum
I have 385 bis helmet, 355 DC shoulders and 370 laser matrix
cinder bridge
I have ... had spectacular bad luck with azerite armor
junior igloo
How is it good when you have neither DC nor Reorigination Array? ๐
strong forum
^
hot locust
Outside of raid you dont count array
strong forum
Id like to think my setup is better than triple BfI
hot locust
and inside raid I'm sure one of those BFI can change to either archive or matrix
frosty wedge
hey - what's the link to the site with the m+ group makeup breakdowns
that shows prot actually doing well this week
so I can convince my friends to not make me take my monk to this temple +11
lol
strong forum
Temple is pretty ez this week
frosty wedge
yeah i knoq
keen spire
easy solution, just don't have any other tanks ๐
frosty wedge
I have 4 >< lol
junior ivy
omg i want to show my friends too
cinder bridge
monk man...
frosty wedge
the thing is I love tanking in general
frosty wedge
but I already have 10s done on my monk this week
cinder bridge
3 sec aoe stun, ring of peace, phys dmg debuff, better mobility, 50% slow, poison/disease dispel... sometimes I wish I was a monk
strong forum
If you need a different tank for 10s,your group the problem not the tank
cinder bridge
then I remember how boring they are to play, and I don't feel as bad
strong forum
Barely
cinder bridge
then you're insane
keen spire
in comparison to prot
cinder bridge
well ait not MUCH better
frosty wedge
meh, I love playing my monk - and I know I can tank it on any of my tanks
strong forum
In what situation would you need more than one leap every 30sec tell me
cinder bridge
but port is handy in a lot of fights
frosty wedge
and my group will let me play whatever
I just want them to not think I'm handcuffing them playing prot, lol
cinder bridge
be the best prot
keen spire
or get new friends that aren't so harsh
cinder bridge
shut them oup
strong forum
I've done that multiple times, even in pugs
frosty wedge
lol I know - I've been playing prot since vanilla and they know it's my best class
strong forum
Show them what a good prot can actually do
frosty wedge
but I"ve gotten really good with my monk, and they're just objectively easier and less prone to RNG
so they usually want me to bring him, lol
cinder bridge
^
keen spire
easy solution, go fury and tell one of them to tank
frosty wedge
I also just put out a fuck ton of damage on my warrior
strong forum
Fury, OMEGALUL
round vortex
ok ok ok guys
raven kernel
my disc wants to sell M+ carries and wants me to tank when i'm mainspec dps
cinder bridge
they're objectively better tanks with a better toolkit tho
round vortex
so i pogged before who was here?
raven kernel
feelsgood when someone recognizes prot
frosty wedge
lol
wanton patio
Hey guys! Quick question, juste got a 365 Lingering Sporepods to replace my 350 button lol, what you think about the trinket? proc rate/effectiveness is good?
round vortex
Baratus #1 pogchamp
strong forum
That's a dps question siemos
hot locust
grats
frosty wedge
sporepods does a ton of healing
round vortex
โค
cinder bridge
gz
strong forum
Either defensive vs offensive, your choice siemos
frosty wedge
my sporepods is typically like, not far behidn IP for healing
wanton patio
Well, I'm prot
strong forum
Still your choice
I'm running rezans and fathoms for dungeons cuz dying is not an issue
Dmg is
junior igloo
@round vortex
You called?
round vortex
oooo man i got a socket i dunno lol
hot locust
wtf
hot locust
I guess I just don't run enough M+
strong forum
I got 380 shield this week, I'm happy
cinder bridge
same
keen spire
lucky
hot locust
I can beat that one
next goblet
i have to do more on my prot war
cinder bridge
380 riot shield
round vortex
and i jsut got this
next goblet
guilds been making me dps lately
strong forum
Gratz
hot locust
keen spire
prepare to be assassinated
frosty wedge
man, I want a rezan's so bad
strong forum
Mythic don't count! :(
frosty wedge
I'm running blockades + sporepods
hot locust
Hahaha
strong forum
Xcept it does but fuck you man :D
round vortex
@hot locust Gimme that to complete my set lol
hot locust
No ๐ก
frosty wedge
I'm content with my 370 weap + shield for now, lol
raven kernel
XD
mortal pike
same
strong forum
Lucky cucks
keen spire
I'm rockin' a 340 wep+shield combo
mortal pike
Still using 340 chest : ))
next goblet
so, once we get a bangin shield, we're "good" right? im currently 356 ilvl with a 345 atal'dazar shield
hot locust
Shields don't magically fix everything.
next goblet
but they help
raven kernel
alot
of course you have to play welll to have good block uptime etc
else the shield is meaningless
next goblet
its not like im getting chunked, or anything im playing what seems to be right, i was just curious
hot locust
Exactly, if it's gameplay issues a shield will never solve it.
next goblet
nah im not having gameplay issues, i just haven't been tanking too much
or playing my warrior really
uneven mason
I mean, shields give us a bit more forgiveness, but we're never going to reach passive derp level tanking like the other classes
raven kernel
if you're looking solely at gear, then yes a good shield makes a massive difference
round vortex
WEll when I play M+ all i get is "Why are warriors getting so much heat?" haha
raven kernel
actually with how bad rep warriors have, its very easily noticeable when you play prot well
uneven mason
we're also punished for bad gameplay, but not rewarded for good gameplay
while other tanks are rewarded for good gameplay but not horribly punished for bad gameplay
next goblet
unless you're a bear
they're just dry toilet paper, and a VDH is wet toilet paper right now
keen spire
Our reward for good gameplay is we get to live.
raven kernel
im punishing myself if i play bear
keen spire
and outdps the dps
uneven mason
Bear is so boring no one literally cares of they're bad or good
raven kernel
can literally fall asleep on bear
strong forum
wait so Mactier are you ikarikaze and just renamed or are you someone else, cuz that avatar is confusing me
next goblet
i have
round vortex
I just run 11's and stop there
keen spire
If you ask the guardian druid discord, they think prot is worse than guardian loooooooooooooool
uneven mason
I am Ikari
round vortex
so my guildies get 10 keys outta their chest
strong forum
aight
raven kernel
mate your discord name doesnt have to be your char name
uneven mason
Wanted to change it
uneven mason
I like Mac better
next goblet
mac n garner
dusk locust
i wanted to change my nick on this discord to my char's name but i don't think aliases are allowed
uneven mason
since my original character was Makaze, and I'm always called Mac on discord (and by the ladies)
next goblet
im just Fuzzypickles
uneven mason
arn't we all
strong forum
we're all fuzzypickles
keen spire
I'm SinisterBlob on everything except my in-game character
hushed ravine
Hey guys, fury guy here
next goblet
dont play much cuphead anymore
hot locust
I'm Lala and I hate my name. ๐ค
strong forum
makes sense, why not change it then
hot locust
Because I lost a bet and that's why I'm Lala.
hushed ravine
Is prot viable in M+ I have 359 haste/mastery gear
hot locust
and now everyone knows me as Lala
strong forum
srsly
hot locust
so I said screw it I'm gonna stay Lala.
solid mist
just checked this morning. cheapest blockades on my AH is 44k ๐ฆ
thin mortar
lala is easily identifyable.. I've been using fatcamp since early 2004 and have recently noticed other people using it (before I was the only one like80+% of the time)
strong forum
yes deathmuffin its viable, just harder to play than others
keen spire
@hushed ravine yep. very viable.
dusk locust
prot is viable for all content
hushed ravine
I like the nepnep profile pic lala
next goblet
@hushed ravine you can do a +10 if thats what you're asking.. it wont be cheese like a BDK but you can do it
strong forum
weeb core assemble!
mortal pike
Proud of my unique name
strong forum
yea i dont like that my name is so common, literally every 2nd guy has it nowadays
hushed ravine
How often do you weave FnP into your rotation ?
strong forum
erm
keen spire
๐ค
strong forum
whats that
keen spire
dafuq is FnP bro
raven kernel
@hot locust you know my vanilla guild all became my rl friends
old zephyr
I think is an attempt to translate something into IยจP
strong forum
i'd say thats wrong channel my dude
raven kernel
and my char was Frost
strong forum
oh
signal plover
Fists and Punch
keen spire
Fists and Punch, got it
hot locust
Hahaha
keen spire
I literally only use FnP in that case
hot locust
Yeah i've got some RL friends out of WoW that call me Lala too.
signal plover
I'll call u Lala
keen spire
hundo parses all day erry day with my FnP
hot locust
Went to one of my raiders' weddings last week actually.
thin mortar
how much ap is that worth?
hushed ravine
Oh ignore pain
strong forum
i try to have 100% uptime on it unless i know im not taking a lot of damage
hushed ravine
Sorry was playing wh40k last night, my army has feel no pain
uneven mason
Best man at the wedding of a guildy I met in 2000 in EQ, still hangout (less frequently, since he moved like an hour south and I moved an hour north)
old zephyr
๐
uneven mason
He still calls me by my EQ name and I his. which let me tell you, confused his wife at first.
dusk locust
i met a few guildies irl a couple months ago. they all called me by my in-game name. irl name was too weird
signal plover
Was it Bigtittyslapper?
dusk locust
hahaha
old zephyr
I have sooo many names around diferents online platform.
In my guild only I have like 4
uneven mason
I had some dude freakout at a lan Because I kept calling him his EQ characters name
signal plover
The ones I've met call me Paw and it's not at all weird IRL cuz it sounds like Paul which is normal
uneven mason
I don't mind the character name thing though, because my circle of friends there is 5 Daves
signal plover
But my name's not Paul so it's like ya
uneven mason
so I'm like seriously you can keep calling me Mac
grim prism
Cool story Vic
grim prism
I had a toon named Scott when I played EVE (not my real name) and it was hard to explain that it was actually less weird if they called me Balsaq
hushed ravine
Iโm david too
sand lance
any hopes for prot m+ viability in 8.1?
uneven mason
"viability"
sand egret
actually, they're deleting prot in 8.1.
mellow bridge
Then dw about prot viability
sand egret
case closed, Scoob
astral crystal
prot is probably viable above in 15+ anyway, m+ is more about being carried by a frost mage and a monk
also a rogue
astral crystal
and skip cancer pulls
uneven mason
^^
mellow bridge
Yeah we can do higher than +15 for sure, just saying that if youre below that you shouldnt even have to worry about what class to play
uneven mason
Yeah, we know
Basically - If you're still using the word "Viability" to ask about a spec, probably not playing at the level it matters anyway
sand egret
Anyone else find it kinda funny as we gear up and push keys, we do less and less actual tanking? Like conceptually, we get gear to take more hits while simultaneously looking for way to not take hits entirely (kiting/skipping).
Kinda a neat little shower thought
mellow bridge
yeah Blade
and I find it rly annoying tbh lmao
I want to tank stuff, not be kiting all day
frosty wedge
meh, kiting is part of tanking
dark junco
But its kite town
sand egret
I don't mind the kiting, but yeah it's an interesting identity for a tank
frosty wedge
you're still holding threat and working to do that
to me, tanking is about controlling the mobs
not facetanking
sand egret
what I think is a tad off is the reasons we kite, which is simply shit can't be tanked.
Necro is a good example for creating a need to kite
frosty wedge
yeah, but having necro drop with combat helps a lot
I was pretty much facetanking necro on my monk b/c necro doesn't apply when you dodge
sand egret
Yeah, I'm speaking more to a general design in how you scale trash in M+
in that flat % damage increase and hp increases lead to a feel of "spongieness"
frosty wedge
oh for sure
sand egret
but it IS easier developmentally than the alternative, which is to manually tune each spell
(which would be kinda sick)
frosty wedge
yeah, caster mobs do SO MUCH damage in high keys though
sand egret
yeah and spike moments can be fun, raw damage is pretty one-dimensional
frosty wedge
like, all tanks scale up and get better armor, better DR< and that helps a lot
old zephyr
not all tank have scaling DR
frosty wedge
but it does nothing to help with casters
sand egret
I'm talking like spells that change in their effect as the key increases
instead of just hit 50% harder
crystal night
I think in like next tier we will be stronger with the vanguard passive scaling our armor up nice n high with more strength on gear
sand egret
(this is my perfect world, though)
crystal night
They may even regret giving us that 5% last week :)
old zephyr
@crystal night in next tier we'll need more armor for the same Damage reduction so I don't think so
crystal night
Oh wow I didn't realize it worked like that
sand egret
and we'll get relatively more armor so it balances out
old zephyr
maybe we'll be better at M+ because we won't need more
sand egret
๐ต power creeeep
old zephyr
but you don't "tank" M+ anyway
crystal night
So they are gonna down scale the amount of armor needed for physical DR?
orchid plover
DR=?
old zephyr
no mater how tough you are 30 necro stacks gonna kill you
crystal night
Damage reduction @orchid plover
orchid plover
ty
old zephyr
in uldir NM you need less armor than in uldir HM for the same DR
old zephyr
I supose they will scale it for next tier as well
orchid plover
why dont they balance us giving more armor for us ๐ค
crystal night
Is that cuz the mobs are "higher level " that us ?
old zephyr
You can kite necro stacks as well
my point is : no matter o tough you are when you take crazy DoT and can't receive any healing
so even if we got to a point w take half the dame of other tank we would still need to kite and cheese mechanics
and other tanks are better than us for that
crystal night
@orchid plover I think they just did like a week ago
old zephyr
1.5 % more i think
orchid plover
gotta pump those numbers]
old zephyr
completely went unnoticed
we don't have number issues
we have CORE issues
can't block ranged attacks xhere EVERY other tank can use their AM against it,
and low M+ cheese power
orchid plover
but those CORE issues couldnt be resolved by giving us more armor. So we have more passive reduction compare to... paladin for example?
crystal night
It's so funny to me that they admittedly designed necrotic to counter the self heal tanks like blood DKs and paladin's but they are the best on those weeks cu of AMS and Spellwarding LUL
old zephyr
compared to the BDK in my guild I mitigate way more damage than he can heal
crystal night
Take pride in that dog @old zephyr
We want to aim for like 60% mitigated in raids right ?
old zephyr
but even with these number this doesn't make me better or more usefull than him
i think I'm around 65%
my main "utility" in raid is burst AoE to get aggro on adds when DPS need to go nuts
crystal night
I wish there were damage mitigated % parses for tanks like there are for damage done %parses
orchid plover
bring back raid 3% lifesteal?
uneven mason
Scottie there are parses that show mitigation
orchid plover
What if, they give us a external CD like intercept, but in range. Utility++?
orchid plover
just saying... cuz intercept "utility" is a bit annoying as it places u near the other tank, for example, leaving exposed to front attacks from boss
neon tangle
I have the simple and best answer
Give us shield toss, but we gotta go pick it up
And itโs an intercept target
old zephyr
We already have ravager toss /s
vagrant cape
Wow. It would still be terrible.
frosty wedge
(if you can't... I've literally never taken the talent so I have no idea)
old zephyr
Make ravager baseline and give it some utility and i'll be Happy
vagrant cape
That's actually... Not the worst idea I've heard
Can you parry "Throw rock" though?
frosty wedge
warriors get rushing jade wind except instead of wind it's axes
frosty wedge
true
old zephyr
Remove the pary thing give le real utility like silence or forced mouvement
orchid plover
WOWOW
frosty wedge
ravager = ring of peace?
frosty wedge
ravager acting like the whirling axes from thet KR boss with the knockback would be fun
old zephyr
Inverted darkness gives every thing ร chance to fail
frosty wedge
lol
vagrant cape
So I found an analogy for the talent pigeonholing. Every talent is like an automotive part and every setup will give you a different array of parts, all seemingly similar in size, value, and function.
But when you look at the meta build parts, you realize they can be assembled seemlessly into an Abrams tank while any other combo just makes a smart car or a tricycle.
frosty wedge
lol def not speccing out - ravager should be baseline
old zephyr
It need to be baseline if It's still ร talent it sucks
frosty wedge
lol that's a solid analogy
vagrant cape
It's like I told someone when they tried to say Runaan's Hurricane was good on Ashe; yeah, it's cool and all, but you're giving up the gold to buy a whole infinity edge. Fuck you, Collin."
Same goes for ravager
And AM
vagrant cape
I'm really excited to hear about the new prot warrior traits in 8.1.... "Revenge now increases the duration of demoralizing shout by two seconds"
grim prism
Or
amber siren
I honestly don't think I would use ravager even if it was baseline, abysmal damage and RNG defensive bonus
๐คท
grim prism
Put it on the same row as NS and indom, and then delete that whole row
frosty wedge
LOL
vagrant cape
I mean...you'd be silly NOT to use it if it were baseline
uneven mason
I Mean Rybie - if it was baseline
frosty wedge
yeha if it were baseline I'd use that shti on cd
uneven mason
it would just be another GCD you spent every minute to lower your overall damage
vagrant cape
It does insane damage and RNG smoothes out during a big pull with lots of shits hitting you
vagrant cape
Wait what
vagrant cape
What
uneven mason
You could tab target devastate
vagrant cape
WHAT
vagrant cape
I thought that was the whole fucking point of an ability called RAVAGER
IT'S SUPPOSED TO RAVAGE FFS
orchid plover
What if devastate could cleave. 2 targets. More chances to reset -> more rage -> Warrior MVP 8.1?
vagrant cape
I'm done. I quit.
grim prism
Lol i didnt realize prot aura reduced damage on it
vagrant cape
Yes, holy cow, I think that would actually make warrior nuts
astral crystal
you dont really need more rage right now
grim prism
So basically it's one revenge worth of damage over 7 seconds?
astral crystal
rage is 100% fine
vagrant cape
But more is always welcome
astral crystal
what for?
frosty wedge
it does 7*45% of AP over 7 seconds
vagrant cape
Spamming IP to get CDs back
grim prism
I wouldnt know because I havent touched ravager since 7.1 when I tried it for one dungeon just so I could rationalize it to myself
grim prism
Cant shit all over it if youve never even tried it
grim prism
Yeah thats hilariously bad
uneven mason
Devastate does 33%
vagrant cape
Blizzard probly discovered that if it did full damage it would become the next "20 blood mirrors" cheese but with 20 ravager at once
uneven mason
you see
grim prism
Except devastate isnt a 7-second aoe
orchid plover
also, baseline
grim prism
Kappa
uneven mason
and competes as a talent
vagrant cape
Still shit because you lose AM which is basically 20% reduction in all damage