I just use that shit on cooldown
#protection
chrome falcon
gleaming blaze
Okay so i got unlucky and got the Servant Splitter in my weekly chest. The question is, is 10 ilvls of Strength and Stam stats worth losing BOTH secondary stats?
steel mauve
its not really that good of a dps boost either the proc on it sucks
gleaming blaze
yea and im a tank...
gleaming blaze
should i just make a ticket and claim this is in the wrong spec for Protection?#
sick sentinel
we getting this bread boys
sick sentinel
freehold
chrome falcon
i fucking hate tanking that shit instance
sick sentinel
ive done a 13 on monk on harder ones
but i gave up after 1st week on uldir on warrior
just came back to it and they do feel a bit better
void sandal
Did you ever pull more than one group at a time?
void sandal
Any aggro issues with skittish?
empty locust
Thunder clap is so powerful right now that i'm having next to no issue. just the occational taunt
quaint kiln
I was doing so much damage in m+ the mobs got ascared of me and started hitting other people
Cause they knew not to fuck with me
*skittish= scaredy-cat mobs
neon tangle
I have only had the same issues I have every week: People not knowing how to interupt
people pulling extra packs
sweet orchid
I either get that or people who do interrupt but don't do mechanics, die in everything and and pull 3k dps.
final mist
Sounds like you should find a new guild.
cinder nova
Unless your guild is top100
They have no ground for benching a tank over matters of class
chrome falcon
Make your own guild while prot warrior is wildly overpowered
Then when you're in a position of power just tell everyone to go fuck themselves if they want you to reroll
cinder nova
Also PTR mastery looks... the same?
stone crag
yup
chrome falcon
Also I don't actually think that's true @cinder nova My guild got one the last 5 KJ mythic kills so we're about as slow as you can get and we swapped all of our tanks to other classes for that fight
solid mist
is reorigination array worth anything ilvl wise? any reason to go down in ilvl to get the uldir trait?
chrome falcon
Tanks are one of the classes that get forced in rerolling the most because blizz has literally no idea how to balance their shit
cinder nova
Then your guild probably was executing poorly.
chrome falcon
Did you do that fight? Mass grip and roar made it literally 100x easier
cinder nova
They nerfed the crap out of it by the end.
chrome falcon
Sometimes tanks have to reroll for utility
cinder nova
Compared to when it was being progged by the top guilds it was a shadow of its former self
chrome falcon
Not in Uldir, though
waxen cradle
No not crazy speculation is all we have and it ranges from probably this to ermagurd were doomed so right now were back to where we were with hoping we get changes in 8.1 rather then hotfixes that really change nothing
chrome falcon
@cinder nova sounds like the opinion of someone who didn't do the fight but hey maybe i'm wrong
cinder nova
I'd like to see your guild do the fight pre-nerf.
But considering it was last 5 to fill.
That may be indicative.
chrome falcon
Not sure how "Sometimes tanks need to reroll to provide utility" has turned into "Your guild is shit because you needed the hardest boss ever to get nerfed before you could kill it"
But good shit buddy
cinder nova
You were literally using anecdotal information.
"My guild did X so that's definitely not true."
chrome falcon
... Because in this case the anecdote perfectly proves what I'm trying to say lol
cinder nova
"Also I don't actually think that's true @cinder nova "
chrome falcon
Sometimes blizzard designs their fights like dumbfucks so tanks need to reroll to provide utility
cinder nova
I'm aware the fight is easier as a bear, just as how having a DK made Aggramar easier.
But it's not required.
Moreover, the screenshot that was the point of discussion is literally revolving current content.
chrome falcon
No, but if you could reroll to make the fight 100x easier for your guild then I don't think you have the right to get indignant
final mist
By the time most guilds killed KJ, Bears weren't required (and they were the only tank that was ever required for KJ in the first place).
Most guilds used double Bear because Roar was so powerful that it made Grip useless.
cinder nova
☝
final mist
And even then, most guilds swapped every class possible to Goblins to compensate for Roar's CD.
DK was "good" but it was never required.
chrome falcon
Yeah force people to pay real cash to racechange to beat the boss
That's the good shit
final mist
That's just Blizzard's balance and raid design being shit.
cinder nova
But unless you're top 100
final mist
Remember, KJ wasn't tested.
cinder nova
Doesn't matter, which mind you, was the original stipulation made here.
chrome falcon
I definitely think any raid leader who says "You need to switch class because reeee prot warrior" is pretty stupid
The only fights where other class utility is really nice is like, mass grip on zekvoz
And transcendence of Ghuun
cinder nova
Yes. One of my DPS was shitting on me because I'm prot and I offered to let him step up as BrM
Got bodied by Shatter.
It was pretty funny to watch, though.
chrome falcon
Tanking zekvoz as BrM 🤢
cinder nova
At least you're not a DH
chrome falcon
Have any DHs killed fetid yet?
cinder nova
¯_(ツ)_/¯
chrome falcon
oh wow almost 30
still only 8 prot warriors lets go boys
still got time to be one of the first 10
cinder nova
:^)
solid mist
for moving up to heroic uldir (mind you I just pug stuff). 350 good ilvl for that? How imporant are trinkets cause mine are poo
cinder nova
Just get blockades and the other is sorta up in the air since tank trinkets are..
Well they don't exist, we'll say.
Make sure you have a decent ilvl shield
solid mist
maaaaan I ain't got gold for that
cinder nova
And you're basically set if you can execute
cinder nova
I'm still dicking around with some garbage 350 shield in Mythic.
While all our shamans and hpal get their 385s and 370s.
I wanna die.
cinder nova
Use howler.
solid mist
I do
chrome falcon
I feel like blockades would be unwearable dogshit if blizzard actually added tank trinkets to this tier
It feels so bad
cinder nova
That's probably true.
bold zinc
How is prot in m+?
prisma crane
what level M+ you looking to do?
bold zinc
12-13
chrome falcon
I unironically think prot is the best tank for everything up to 13
prisma crane
you can do it, but it'll be rough
dark junco
Thanks vryone for your input
chrome falcon
higher than that and you're in trouble
dark junco
@final mist I do feel like I should find a new one, but getting a 2/8M with a tanking spot open is... yup
chrome falcon
You aren't going to die (most of the time) and our dps is so much higher than everyone apart from VDH
stone crag
finding a guild as a tank definitely isn't a fun time
chrome falcon
Yeah it's rough because 99% of the time tanks are officers
So you're basically competing against one other guy
digital arrow
yeah art, i know that experience first hand
and then there's a bias against our class at the moment and that doesnt help 😦
chrome falcon
I really wish blizzard hadn't made that blue post about us
chrome falcon
"Prot warrior sucks but we have no idea what to do about it, stay tuned!"
next goblet
lol no they didnt
digital arrow
blizz points at us HEY WE KNOW U ARE UNDERPOWERED, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT IT*
chrome falcon
I'll find it
stone crag
probably this one https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769068522#post-18
chrome falcon
No, there was another one
next goblet
christ
digital arrow
i even had a friend who's guildmaster and knows im not terrible at tanking, but it was too much work to convince the rest of the group
chrome falcon
"We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not."
digital arrow
so old guild went with brewmaster and dk
junior ivy
a little scary at the end
topaz ember
its pretty nice as arms which is waht i had to switch to
next goblet
because our blood dk is just doing absolutely horrible
junior ivy
so if i can d oit, anyone can
next goblet
im 358 as prot
chrome falcon
@next goblet Call for externals if you don't have a big personal and use BoPs if you still can't take it
And make sure the healers know they need to spam the shit out of you
BL the start so there's less damage going on the raid so the healers can focus you
gleaming blaze
So, we did recieve some love recently, but is it enough? Or do we still need more?
That Warrior buff seems so minor and bumping stats slightly doesn't address any mechanical issues.
next goblet
its very minor
severe zinc
What would be some good changes?
chrome falcon
What's getting you?
Are you Alliance? I can't even imagine doing Zul without Belf racial
chrome falcon
Yeah get owned lol
next goblet
rip
next goblet
right now im dpsing, i just asked how the fight is as prot because i might have to switch
neat harbor
Belf racial? Nah, its the fight you bring shadow priests to just to make them feel useful 😄
or (one) shadow priest rather
next goblet
whys shadow good on zul?
severe zinc
Mass dispel ?
severe zinc
Idk
dark junco
Yup @chrome falcon I legit just got benched from tanking
And I parse 85+
Like wtf you want more
I’m not the fucking issue
timid jay
I RARELY TALK IN HERE ANYMORE
timid jay
it's not the same since Thyme left
timid jay
😢
timid jay
Thyme isn't playing wow this tier and I'm not tanking anymore
junior ivy
awwww
neon tangle
it's ok, you always got me
junior ivy
thank god krotos still talks sometimes
timid jay
But back to the topic, tank parses are hardly relevant for progress unless you really need that small amount of extra damage
junior ivy
cant deal with everyone leaving
dark junco
Well I can’t parse high if I keep dying on a 5mins fight and losing all my buffs, so thats still part of an indicator. I also have less damage taken overall than the other tank.
BFA’s to blame
timid jay
Tank parses are just your damage compared to other prot warriors, hardly a useful metric for measuring survivability which generally is a lot more important for prog
dark junco
Hence why I said that I also have less damage taken overall.
next goblet
wait why'd thyme leave?
timid jay
Yeah that's fair but you still have to account for how easy you are to heal, i.e. damage spikes and how often you die
Obviously I don't know the entire story I'm just putting it out there
dark junco
Yeah I can understand cosmo
timid jay
Hell for all I know it might just be someone bribing your GM to get your tank spot
dark junco
Cause he was fed and wasn’t playing war nemore
Felt like it tbh
Applicant entering the tank rotations (cause we’re 3). Other tank stop tanking then the applicant take my raid night cause “we gotta talk about your class I’ve read stuff”. Then proceed to say “might have to change class”. No. Full no.
neon tangle
@dark junco I'm just curious, might be interesting to look at the health chart of you vs the other tank
dark junco
You mean HP?
neon tangle
yeah
timid jay
Just reading stuff instead of looking at performance isn't really all that useful though
Kinda suck when people do that
"I've read this spec is bad, therefore you must reroll"
neon tangle
right, you can generally get an idea of the spikiness, etc
but if it's just " your spec is bad"
no real fixing that
oblique garnet
Are you raiding heroic or mythic?
dark junco
1/8M on mother atm, but dps keep dying to grid and all. We don’t have aotc yet.
Twas for our aotc kill. Been with the guild since antorus, new dude is 10 days in.
I’m mad beyond words.
oblique garnet
Yeah sounds like your gm has an issue with you personally
I feel like warrior might run into issues later on in uldir on mythic but the first 4 or so bosses shouldnt be that bad
main vault
Sounds like your GM is an idiot
solid mist
don't those discussions usually get accompanied by logs? be one thing if they were like "check out these parses, you are taking way too much damage"
or something
main vault
If you are only 1/8, and not even AotC, you can literally tank as anything and it wouldnt make a difference
dark junco
Yeah I know, as for @solid mist I don't want to point out names or nething, sorry. I can understand the skepticism, that's normal, but I don't want to start name dropping or stuff.
solid mist
oh no I'm just speaking in generalities
and I meant, more like isn't your GM looking at logs?
or is he just saying "meh I heard your class is bad bro"
cause wtf
dark junco
We have logs and all, no clue what triggered that reaction.
oblique garnet
What tank did they replace you with?
dark junco
DK
solid mist
yeah I'm not skeptical of you, I'm curious why they'd ask you to reroll without giving you some logs and be like "you really boned it up ont hese attempts, here look"
or whatever
main vault
Its wierd to me there is a 3 tank rotation in a casual guild
surreal stump
i tank mythic mother. the disc priest and i stay in main rooms alone most of the time.. makes them wind tunnels fun as fuck
oblique garnet
No nexii mostly on casual guilds there can be like alot of no shows so tanks might need to be subbed alot
dark junco
Yeah but I've never been a no show. Always there since legion, I just don't get it.
main vault
In any sense of the word
dark junco
I might have been oblivious to the signs that the RL/GM doesn't like me
main vault
That is always possible
dark junco
Like @oblique garnet suggested.
oblique garnet
Could also really be bandwagoning on the fotm tanks
dark junco
Possible.
oblique garnet
Dk
main vault
DH?
dark junco
DK
main vault
whats the current OT
dark junco
Pally
he was with me before, since Legion in fact
had a DH officer who wanted to start tanking
So we started doing a rotation
main vault
Yeah your RL is just a FotM dude
And is too stupid to realize meta means fuck all to your guild
oblique garnet
They will probably bring you back in as soon as they realize its not really the tanks fault if the dps fuck up the walls on mother
dark junco
Maybe, but if they get a kill while they're with the DK, they'll assume its the DK
solid mist
yeah, have you considered teh ol' double middle finger as you walk backwards out the door?
oblique garnet
I mean if you have played together with the guild for a while and have alot of friends there its harder to just up and leave
modern pulsar
does archive of the titans stack and is it worth stacking it
vagrant cape
The buff itself, yes. The reorigination array no.
If you're in uldir, use it as long as you're not replacing your only DC trait.
If you're not in uldir, don't stack them as the buff is worse than any prot trait
@modern pulsar
vagrant cape
Grats! He's a tuffy
past ledge
gota love spell reflect in that fight
waxen cradle
Did they change something on Mother this week the zerg strat on her seemed tougher this week
sick sentinel
I got the cleaver out of waycrest, which is a 10 item level upgrade over my mace from AtalDazar.... but the Atal mace has a socket. Which one would y’all take? The item level?
past ledge
a socket is what 20 IL?
surreal stump
the cleaver with 0 secondary stats?
sly shadow
Do you guys follow any kind of rotation with your defensive?
lusty grotto
what do you mean @sly shadow
socket is worth it on rings
but sure i can agree with 5 ilvl on armor
surreal stump
thing is total shit, the dot on it ticks for crap and it seemed useless to me lol
lusty grotto
10 ilvls hmm
that's an interesting question
im pretty sure weapon damage factors in to our dmg
but defensively you gain nothing from it? unless i'm mistaken
surreal stump
slightly more stam? losing the haste/vers and the haste gem in socket would hurt imo over 10 ilvls
lusty grotto
right more str more stam
just no secondaries
it might be wortth equipping
just for the str
sly shadow
I just mean like, do you guys follow any specific rotation for your defensive? Like, shield block, shield block, demo shout, shield block, last stand?
crystal night
It's situational depending on the type of damage you're taking @sly shadow
pulsar lily
Doesn't IP scale with weapon damage?
crystal night
Not that I know of @pulsar lily
For physical you can go SB -SB -Last Stand w. Bolster Talent SB SB
pulsar lily
(strength + weapondDPS * 6) * apCoef * masteryMultiplier * vers * other
crystal night
@sly shadow
pulsar lily
that's IP from icy veins
sly shadow
I see. What for magic?
crystal night
I'm not familiar with the quick mafs behind that
pulsar lily
although, I'm sure it's infinitesimal
lusty grotto
there are no rotations @sly shadow , more info read 
sly shadow
I mean, I have read the pinned messages. I thought this was a place I could go to ask questions?
lusty grotto
read the Icy Veins guide linked in the pins
oblique garnet
also you can use spell reflect to reduce a little bit of magic damage or reflect enemy spells etc
verbal night
Any tips for initial threat? It’s a constant struggle against dh tanks
Or should I say dh co-tank
lusty grotto
pop avatar
spam thunderclap
use demo shout and keep spamming tclap
agro shouldn't be an issue at all
broken kite
@dark junco I'd start looking for a new Guild tbh
dark junco
Yeah just talked with him, was told I'm a liability and hard to keep up. Told him I didn't feel like I was and he told me he'd prefer if I rerolled. Told him that was a no on my side and I'd step down from mythic raiding.
Will see what I do, but I know, even tho I'm a warrior, that I'm not the problem and that the logs he was pointing out to were the strats: M mother with 6 peeps crossing and no CCs. Grabbing aggro on that makes your life go no-no and the healer was popping tranquility to keep me up. Thats not happening lol.
So I feel like its more of an excuse than genuine reasons. So I'm just out at that point.
But thanks @broken kite . Might just do that, yeah 😃
main vault
Yeah
He is just an idiot
No fucking clue what he is doing
There is no Mother strat where 6 cross at once
dark junco
3-2-2-2 add infinitium
dark junco
Yeah but you'd need hard cc on mythic lol
dark junco
Or high high high burst
dark junco
On mythic ?
main vault
Yes
dark junco
Damn, how you do the crossing ?
main vault
Spirit Link, Barrier, personals, Darkness
dark junco
17 staggered or almost same time ?
dark junco
damn
signal plover
We mass crossing with all 20 (from 2nd to 3rd room) but separate each raid group by maybe a second.
First to second we do a big initial group then about 5 pairs (need that delay to get healing CDs back for 2nd crossing)
astral crystal
damn mythic fetid's thrash timers are all over the place
hot locust
gotta keep in mind the stomp and breath timers and if he is gonna eat adds
cloud bone
alright boys all these rings are 370 Mastery Crit with a socket , Crit Haste, and Vers Haste which 2?
I'm thinking the one with the socket and the vers haste one
astral crystal
yeah lala, the moments he runs away to try and eat adds is what fucks shit up
dps are being inconsistent in how long it takes them to kill the adds
we had too many melee i think
hot locust
yup
raven kernel
I'm dps tho
neat harbor
still
raven kernel
Prob never gonna tank in raid again
neat harbor
good jorb my son
gief mythic pl0x D: my guild raids 2 night a week
on weekends no less
raven kernel
I raid 3 nights
neat harbor
love the folks, progression is slower tho
neat harbor
is certainly possible. many factors
were a new guild in BfA, I figure in the end Id rather raid 2 nights a week with ppl I actually like than 3 nights with a bunch of toxic fuckers I cant stand
raven kernel
Yeah for sure
hot locust
Yeah we only raid 2 nights.
raven kernel
It's really not enjoyable raiding with strangers
hot locust
Just did a full night of G'huun 😄
astral crystal
i like your UI mang
hot locust
67
neat harbor
k so Im raiding cross server with my guild
so I need you guys to hurry up and clear 100 mythic uldirs, pl0x
raven kernel
Come back in 2 months
neat harbor
so I can raid mythic cross realm 😢
😩
or
get your shit together and progress!
😡
I mean.. please, kind sir
if you could kindly focus more
I believe you could achieve victory
lusty grotto
someone said you could LoS Shadow of Zul's casts... where specifically? because they went through the wall
or was it BS?
junior ivy
grats my guild got zekvoz mythic tonight for first time too
vagrant cape
this appears to be the week of zek'voz clears
dusk locust
ayy i got it too
solid mist
that prot buff hotfix
onyx vessel
So did they buff crit block in 8.1??
lusty grotto
no
vagrant cape
really I think our new mastery should be that we reflect any damage that we critically block. Since we lack utility, our niche can be the ability to sub in as a dps.
I find it hilarious that the tank spec with the least utility and situational abilities has the highest skill floor and ceiling.
lusty grotto
and highest dps 😃
lusty grotto
👢 🍵 👏
vagrant cape
booty clap?
lusty grotto
of course!
lusty grotto
lol
static pilot
has anyone seen the latest Preach video?
vagrant cape
unfortunately, yes
static pilot
he's tanking a +9 Atal'Dazar in the background and its just so painful to watch
vagrant cape
oh, I didn't actually "watch" it but I listened to it in the car
static pilot
im having trouble paying attention to the discussion because he's getting absolutely murdered by the trash
looks like it was from the teeming/fort week
vagrant cape
now I wanna look at it
static pilot
decent recovery towards the end, they 1shot the trash before the golden priestess boss
but he was getting absolutely wailed on in the undead troll wing
vagrant cape
I mean, that's the worst part to be fair
static pilot
that double pull at 9:44 is painful
but easy mistake to make if you're used to the skip and dont take the teeming affix into consideration
the death at 10:20 though, that felt avoidable
lusty grotto
wasnt preach a priest
static pilot
historically he's played mage I believe
these days he's maining arms warrior, mage and boomkin - guessing he went prot to help the m+ group form, which is nice of him
lusty grotto
the only wow streamers i watch are pvp ones :\
and sense / lala
anyway what's he tanking?
ember arrow
Omw to crap uni
static pilot
atal, +9, fort/teeming/quaking
lusty grotto
oh
static pilot
that was a shit week for m+ tbf
lusty grotto
last week's?
vagrant cape
does he still use devastator?
lusty grotto
i mean the week before that
fort and teeming was just a shitshow combo
and quaking on certain bosses for stackables
static pilot
he has devestate on his bar but i've yet to see him use it, not sure if he's running devestate and ignoring it or if he's running devestator but didnt remove it from his bar
(I was wondering the same thing)
lusty grotto
btw... speaking of M+
someone said you could LoS Shadow of Zul's casts... where specifically? because they went through the wall
i'm thinking it was BS, i haven't run a lot of King's Rest
static pilot
doesn't look like he's running BV - no rage gain from casting demoralizing shout
ember arrow
👌
static pilot
but he is using DC
vagrant cape
I wanna write him a letter
raven kernel
he's one of those devastator bois
ember arrow
Nexii its been a long time
ember arrow
Im enjoying bdk and pala atm
vagrant cape
have you tried tanking content prior to bfa? It's a lot easier. I'd recommend that
especially at level 120
ember arrow
🤔
static pilot
agree with Levko, bdk doesn't feel bad
well, it feels weak* compared to legion but every tank does afaik
main vault
Some classes dont
vagrant cape
Prot can easily tank over 95% of the content in the game
main vault
All tanking itself feels horrible
little orchid
hey guys! assuming i took "booming voice", "dragon roar" and "ravager" as talents, the guide on icy veins says that i should use "demoralizing shout" and "avatar" on cooldown while delaying "demoralizing shout" for"avatar" but never vice versa. In addition, "Dragon Roar takes priority over Thunder Clap, but not Shield Slam." my question now is: which one of "demoralzinging shout" and "avatar" should i delay for "dragon roar" and "ravager"?
main vault
Classes won't make it fun
static pilot
never, ever, ever take ravager
main vault
I've don't it over 10 years, everything from alt to top 50 world
I'm just done with it
vagrant cape
@little orchid I honestly can't tell if this is a joke, but I'm going to assume you're serious. Don't use dragon roar or ravager.
lusty grotto
don't take dragon roar
vagrant cape
@little orchid take unstoppable force and anger management instead
lusty grotto
you should never delay demo shout.. you want it for defensive purposes
it reduces ALL damage including spell damage, it's important to keep up as much as possible
vagrant cape
@little orchid Prot warrior is in a spot right now where the recommended talent build and Deafening crash (an azerite trait) has such insane synergy that unstoppable force + booming voice + anger management + Bolster + deafening crash beats out any other options by a mile
lusty grotto
yes it increases your dps, but the reason we take DC as a trait is due to having Demo shout up as much as possible
you should prioritize Thunder Clap over Shield Slam only when using Avatar
and even then shield slam should be 2nd highest priority
vagrant cape
or when demo shout is up*
lusty grotto
i.e. in between T-claps
defensively never delay demo shout though
if you want snap agro, pop Avatar, do a Tclap, then Demo, then Tclap, then SS, then Tclap and so forth fill with Ignore Pain if you're nearing full rage
or with Revenge if you are feeling like pushing dps but not at the cost of having a full IP up
and of course maintain Shield Block as much as possible when you're getting melee'd
fill shield block gaps with Last Stand (with Bolster as a talent)
vagrant cape
during avata/demo: TC > SS > revenge > devastate
otherwise: SS > TC > Revenge > devastate
little orchid
"Avatar Icon Avatar should be cast on cooldown as well. It is worth delaying Demoralizing Shout Icon Demoralizing Shout by a few seconds if Avatar is about to come off cooldown. Do not delay Avatar for Demoralizing Shout."
is that wrong?
lusty grotto
right
vagrant cape
no, it is not wrong
lusty grotto
its not wrong
key word really is "about to come off"
if it's really close to refreshing or due to AM
which you should have instead of Dragon Roar
but seriously, don't use Dragon Roar
or 
vagrant cape
I have often delayed avatar for demo shout, though. Avatar on its own doesn't offer much of a survivability increase. It gives you about 20 rage up front (in exchange for a gcd) and gives you 5 extra rage every 2 globals. I like keeping them lined up as best I can.
lusty grotto
to be fair at least in M+ there aren't a lot of cases where you have to delay it
little orchid
okay, thanks for the help. i totally had overseen that UM increases TC damage
lusty grotto
i think the guide is kinda looking at long term combat like raid bosses
and reduces its cooldown!
you can literally spam it, and you will never lose agro
on aoe packs
little orchid
nice
lusty grotto
and your damage output will be insane (on AOE packs that is)
wraith hemlock
So, if I recall we would use 1 DC trait (only 1) and 2 BI... But for Uldir, by now, we already can have 5 stacks of reorigination array. Meaning we want 1 "generic" trait from uldir azerite gear.... What should we aim for? Archive or laser?
dreamy zealot
Outside of wowhead / icy veins, does anyone have any resources for checking out azurite traits?
vagrant cape
the dungeon journal
dreamy zealot
Im looking at a lot of top warriors, and im seeing a trend of stacking iron fortress
vagrant cape
people can't aim for any specific traits
so they use whatever they have the highest ilvl of
wraith hemlock
IF is an steady increased block thou...
vagrant cape
it's sheer coincidence
wraith hemlock
And I think as tank you actually want the highest ILVL, as dps you can be picky on traits
dreamy zealot
I get that, which is why I was seeing if there is a prot warrior fan site out there that has dug a little deeper
or youtube ect
quiet kettle
if ur prot, 2 pcs are total ilvl
lusty grotto
right iron fortress is meh, but if a piece has highes tilvl
then you go for it
i mean
final mist
We are the Prot warrior fan site.
lusty grotto
it's not mehj
quiet kettle
prot warr is 1x anything, 1x archive, 1x deafening crash
tight tree
Just DC and w/e
static pilot
how does archive work when it comes to stacking?
lusty grotto
plus no haste buff on M+
stone crag
more strength per stack
lusty grotto
only in Uldir
quiet kettle
the buff doesnt stack, the trait itself does
dreamy zealot
Ok, thoughts on Liberator's Might vs Callous Reprisal?
lusty grotto
@stone crag no
stone crag
what
lusty grotto
oh you mean stacking traits
quiet kettle
so if ur trait is 10 stacking 20 times. and u have 2 of those, its 20 x 20
stone crag
yes
lusty grotto
i thought you meant array
stone crag
response to archive
static pilot
say you have 2 pieces with archive trait, you pick it on both - does it stack perfectly or is there a weird interaction?
final mist
It stacks perfectly.
stone crag
just as any other trait that stacks
quiet kettle
^
static pilot
great 😃
final mist
My Paladin has two at the same ilevel, and the Strength is just doubled.
static pilot
by weird interaction like how DC works
multiple DC traits increases the damage but not the interaction with demoralizing shout
final mist
It's like 520 Strength at full stacks.
stone crag
that's how all traits stack
lusty grotto
@dreamy zealot Callous Reprisal, this is on same ilvl pieces?
dreamy zealot
Yea, 370 piece
lusty grotto
callous reprisal then
stone crag
What Stacks for Azerite Traits?
Stat increases, Damage additions, Healing additions
What doesn't stack?
Duration multipliers/additions, proc chance, number of targets, etc
lusty grotto
right i brain farted and thought we were talking about array
static pilot
right, that's why I ask - to me that's an imperfect stack
perfect stack = 2x the trait, 2x the effect
otherwise it's a partial stack
stone crag
then every trait is imperfect ¯_(ツ)_/¯
obtuse venture
I think some azerite procs stack the proc but also double the internal cooldown
static pilot
nah, some stack perfectly. Like gutripper
final mist
Stacking Archive is twice (or thrice) the effect.
You get double the strength per stack.
static pilot
one more thing where you have to RTDM to know how it works >__<
cheers for the answer 😃
would be nice if the tooltips were a bit more exhaustive for stuff like this
stone crag
too bad they're straying away from that and pruning them
static pilot
I read an idea somewhere to have optional "advanced" tooltips that showed all the hidden math
final mist
They had that in Cata.
static pilot
so you dont have 8 paragraph tooltips to scare away newbies but you can still figure out kinda-sorta what a trinket actually does
final mist
It was removed because "players don't need to know that information".
static pilot
"summons a spawn of G'huun to aid you in combat" - well, that's nice. Now wtf does it mean? How often does it spawn, how much damage does it do, is it a melee or a ranged caster, can it be kited, can it be stunned, how much health does it have, can it even be targeted
quiet kettle
spawns a stationary tendril with hp, that atks either closest target or ur target for 20s
spawns within 8-10yds of u
static pilot
that's super helpful information Auura 😃
I just really wish it was available in-game
quiet kettle
it can also pull anything that paths
static pilot
ideally without bringing in a dummy and a DPS meter
ionic fern
Fun fact - if you spawn one when you're Mind Controlled the tentacle will attack you or anyone near it after you get out of your mindcontrol.
quiet kettle
free rage xP
stark raft
So I might switch to help my guild out, are any of ya'll tanking heroic/mythic and is it as bad as people threw a fit about?
quiet kettle
honestly i have more trouble with m+ than i do raids
static pilot
warriors are better off in raids than in m+ since there's usually more healers in raids to prop up our health bars when they dip low
quiet kettle
also there's a surprising amount of physical atks in raid that we can block
static pilot
prot warrior is viable in the sense that it can tank all current content, but it punishes mistakes very harshly and can be quite frustrating to play from a gameplay standpoint
stark raft
I see.
static pilot
that said, it is playable and (some) people are performing well with it
but in most cases you could go further with less talent if you play a different tank
quiet kettle
ya prot did a 180 in terms of playstyle from legion to bfa
stark raft
and we should expect SOME sort of change in the patch?
quiet kettle
we went from rotational to proactive mit
static pilot
we have no idea. Prot would benefit massively from a rework but we have no idea what they're planning atm
hot locust
That hasn't really changed...
We were that way before.
It is just more pronounced now.
static pilot
they wanted to rework prot in the beta but seemed to run out of time and reversed multiple changes
quiet kettle
u could mit a ton just by doing ur standard rota in legion with capping ur IP and having SB uptime
static pilot
we do know that we're on the "class design radar" and can prrrrobably expect quality of life changes at a bare minimum
hot locust
Yes, and all our spells function in the same fashion.
Being proactive or not hasn't changed.
If you were a good prot warrior before you were doing things in a similar fashion to now anyways. It's just slower now.
static pilot
I think the BFA warrior has a lot more emphasis on CD mitigation and a lot less emphasis on block mitigation, that threw off a lot of legion warriors that were used to 60-70% block (with AM) or 100% block (with HR)
quiet kettle
we also have the potential for highest dps tank in aoe situations
stark raft
I feel
I really only am interested in playing warrior or pally since my warrior is 365 and pally 355 so i wouldnt have to level anything else
I just need anohter trinket on the warrior since one is the heroic trinket from vectis
static pilot
I'll be dead honest, if you dont have a strong preference for one or the other I'd play the paladin
stark raft
the only real benefit the warrior has is the item levels atm
quiet kettle
warr dps xP
static pilot
if you're not familiar with prot warrior gameplay now is not the best time to try and pick it up
that kinda looks like an ad for DH dps if you ask me ^^
hot locust
There are many more DH kills of Zul than their are warrior.
and not every warrior does the crawg job that Sense does to get big damage.
stark raft
I'll put it this way
lusty grotto
it's snowball effect from bandwagoning
hot locust
Whereas almost every DH does.
stark raft
I took a very long break from tanking. I havent tanked since WoD
but I was a prot warrior raider from TBC through the end of pandaland
stark raft
so prot warrior has sort of always been my spirit animal
quiet kettle
cause legion warr shifted hard from wod
stark raft
I dont care about learning really
my two big concerns are A) can the kit handle mythic
hot locust
Yes.
lusty grotto
mythic what
stark raft
and B) do we expect a massive shift anytime soon in our kit
lusty grotto
raids?
quiet kettle
i'd honestly say that prot is 3rd for mythic raiding
stark raft
yeah raids
static pilot
prot can handle anything in the game provided you play it at a high enough skill level
lusty grotto
Lala can tell you 😃
lusty grotto
can't really expect what we don't know
quiet kettle
like maybe getting IP off the gcd
hot locust
good joke 😄
static pilot
me neither, I'm afraid the IP GCD is here to stay. They just need to make the button more rewarding to push
quiet kettle
im just glad it doesnt cost like 60 rage anymore
static pilot
DS is on the GCD and it works fine because it has an immediate visual effect both in damage and healing
hot locust
IP isn't the problem imo
obtuse venture
the high skill cap argument is only valid if you can be more effective than other tanks at that higher skill cap. is the perfectly played warrior a better tank than a brewmaster in raids? is it better than a blood dk/dh in M+? i dont think so.
hot locust
It's block uptime being super low without LS bolster buffering it.
static pilot
did someone make a high skill cap argument?
hot locust
Does it need to be? Not really.
static pilot
block uptime is at the top of my wish list for sure
quiet kettle
that and having to constantly cycle thru every defensive we have
hot locust
I'm fine with prot as long as I can play it and be successful clearing content.
I don't need it to be even with other tanks or the OPs.
static pilot
constantly cycling cooldowns to cover up holes in our mitigation feels counterintuitive and frustrating for me 😕
quiet kettle
oh both sb charges are down? time to pop LS/SW/DS/trink
hot locust
I mean it's been that way since legion too.
block downtime on hard hitting bosses always fucked us
oak nest
@quiet kettle too true
quiet kettle
we also had a 3rd option for blocking legion too
hot locust
It just wasn't as bad because our uptime was so much higher.
quiet kettle
which we dont have anymore
static pilot
I dunno, it never felt this problematic in legion
hot locust
Yes because you had 60+% uptime instead of 35%+
lusty grotto
smart blocking though... only when you're getting melee. Like not pressing SB when stuff is stunned or casting, goes a long way
static pilot
I think the main thing for me is that when I run a m+ on my DK and something goes wrong (body pull in Motherlode say)
obtuse venture
block uptime isnt a big issue for me in M+ as just block being useless against almost all of the super dangerous trash abilities
oak nest
@static pilot can't pop your shield's CD now
static pilot
I have cooldowns available and can probably salvage it
if I'm doing it on a warrior, welp - that's it
LS is already on cooldown for SB, demoralizing shout was used on pull
so I maybe have shield wall and that wont be enough to get me through the fight
obtuse venture
so should they just give us 100% sb coverage
hot locust
No that's just goofy
static pilot
I'd like 100% SB coverage to be an option if you talent for it with HR
hot locust
but bringing it back to legion levels is not a bad idea.
oak nest
Used to be easier when you could stack block rating
static pilot
HR's 100% block time v AM mitigation cycle was a good system imo, HR was a good option for warriors that didnt like the cooldown minigame
static pilot
doesnt matter, average warriors dont push mythic bosses or +25s
HR worked fine for hc and +20s
hot locust
I mean
if you killed raids at CE
not even top end but just CE
you couldn't be using HR
static pilot
I'd argue HR saw use at mythic raiding level but only on specific bosses
amber siren
no
hot locust
Look
I ran 100% mastery on argus
and HR was bad.
There was no point ever
that HR was worth
lusty grotto
HR was only useful on KJ... and even then you could do it without
hot locust
No
static pilot
we're getting sidetracked
static pilot
my point is that in legion prot warrior had two viable play styles that appealed to different players
lusty grotto
it was only recommended here if you didn't manage SB uptime enough with NF
static pilot
HR was an option for traditionalist tanks
lusty grotto
but yes i agree, i never ran HR on KJ
static pilot
__<
amber siren
viable doesn't mean what you think it means
static pilot
fine, never mind
hot locust
"ability to work successfully."
hot locust
Yes,
stark raft
it doedsnt make a difference class wise
hot locust
That's all you should ever do.
Play what you want to play and what you find fun.
The balance will never be a big enough difference to make you unable to do things.
"assuming proper play" should probably be in there as well though.
stark raft
After tanking I switched to healing and it was fun, and then i went to DPS
and this is awful
our one tank is getting deployed in 3 weeks so
the spot opened
obtuse venture
i think the play whatever you find fun every class is viable is a bit naive
static pilot
"The balance will never be a big enough difference to make you unable to do things."
unless you play HR ^^
obtuse venture
tell that to shamans trying to pug 10+s.
they will probably spit in your face if they could
fierce halo
Maybe 1-2 dps specs are not so viable, but for tanks its definitely true
static pilot
as an enhance shaman main, I never bother with pugging anyway
shamans bring tons of utility and decent-ish damage
if people are too busy memeing t o appreciate that it's their loss ^^
obtuse venture
as long as DH/DK tank are as effective as they are in M+ other tanks will always get passed up for high keys.
that's just how metas work
static pilot
speaking of DKs, apparently we're getting an engi device that replicates battle rezes
ironically my DK went engi for the nitro boost 😕
wonder if it'll be a profession-specific consumable or if anyone can use it
obtuse venture
bres will be huge. motherlode will be much easier to time having at least 1 bres now with my maxed engineering
oak nest
When's this bres come in?
static pilot
I read about it in the PTR notes on MMOChamp so potentially 8.1
oak nest
Weren't they making adjustments to mats costs?
static pilot
I think they were gonna reduce flask costs but then went back on it and announced they'd fix it a different way? Not sure, havent been paying too much attention
I kind of hope they dont make the brez engi-only
it'll make engi the god tier profession for m+
quiet kettle
the datamine from alch was weird tbh
cause it was going from the 8.1 dev stated values back to 8.0 values
and i wouldnt be surprised if the brez thing is engi only
considering engi are the only ones with out-of-combat res from a profession
static pilot
the annoying thing is that similar tools are profession-agnostic
anyone can use drums and war-scrolls
stark raft
would you guys say collective will>reinforced plating?
quiet kettle
reinforced tbh
static pilot
replicating hero and battle shout/arcane int/prayer of fort
quiet kettle
pins have a better idea
static pilot
^
quiet kettle
which means the guide doesnt find it valuable at all
oak nest
@static pilot engineers need something worthwhile, can't even upgrade the mcnugget tier goggles and bombs share a CD with pots
static pilot
I absolutely agree that engis need better toys (half the professions do tbh) but I really dont think brez is the thing
brez is too important for m+ to be profession locked when drums & scrolls can be used by anyone
making it an engi crafted (but not profession limited) consumable is still a nice boost for engineers that want to make money and there are plenty of other things they can do to make engineering interesting again
but frankly nitro belt + free gliders already puts you ahead of blacksmithing
sick sentinel
should i be out dpsing the dps on every trash mob?
On aoe yeah
With avatar mostly
oak nest
@static pilot member when professions were worthwhile? I member
oak nest
@chrome steppe no I'm just a memberberry
chrome steppe
Oh, I see. Never watched South Park much, so that was not in my field 😄
oak nest
@chrome steppe always bad having to defend your guilty pleasures
chrome steppe
Wouldn't this be more like a guilty displeasure? Given that South Park is considered basic knowledge and I am uneducated?
Like I'm guilty of not being pleased by SP.
weary nacelle
I know that the vanguard change has been already implemented. But what about the first ones? And what do they actually change here?
or is this old?
hearty portal
Its old
crisp stone
They removed our mastery, then readded it
weary nacelle
ah okay
hearty portal
They really want our mastery to be block, when 66% of the abilitys in this game isnt blockable
seems legit
nvm 75% of the games abilitys aren't blockable
trail dagger
Yeah, time to make more things blockable then
hearty portal
there is no reason why spells and range attacks cant be blocked
shields was literally used only to counter arrows
fathom marten
Then prot what be one of the best tanks
Blizzard doesn't want that
Been tanking with my monk
Fuckin cruise control
Lol
upbeat folio
Yes... it's... sad.
hearty portal
Warriors will be shit tier, atleast it works to get weekly m +10
They wont buff warriors in the PTR either, they're going to do the same that they did to shamans. They gave them an unwanted change that in the end changed nothing.
acoustic echo
tbh i dont think they will ever be on pair with other tanks on top mythic
Blizzard is slow
but its enough for the average Player to at least do highest weekly chest
oak nest
@chrome steppe I like to call it a social commentary with sillyness
random osprey
yesterday i had started a discussion around the utility of bloodsport over brace for impact / iron fortress, and today i have some numbers, if anyone is interested in listening
i just ran a +11 motherlode, and i have the numbers for healing done and number of attacks taken to compare bloodsport with the traits that increase block amount
ignore pain accounted for 3.16m healing with an average cast of 37k, 8k of which comes from bloodsport
by proportion, bloodsport contributed around 700k damage mitigation
i also took 995 melee attacks for a total of 9.77m damage
for BfI or IF to provide a similar amount of healing, they would need to reduce an average of 700 damage
mitigation*
seeing as how i took an average of 10k in melee hits, 700 is 7% upon that, and i don't think BfI or IF provide nearly that much extra mitigation
old zephyr
Is that 9M before or after mitigation ?
random osprey
i'm using skada, though i don't know what that number represents
i'm assuming it's the damage taken after mitigation
old zephyr
Yeah
random osprey
my naive conclusion is that bloodsport is actually pretty good, though BfI/IF will scale higher in more difficult content
old zephyr
Bllodsport is actually pretty good
fathom marten
@acoustic echo I kind of agree. Wars were designed when the game was way diffrent. Wow has progessed by different measures and the way wars are built, it's just not easily adaptable. I love my prot war and by no means do I think we are terrible. But after tanking with DH and BM, it's pretty clear what the game favors more. Blizz needs to rework wars for them to be able to have a stable class. The way we've been the past few years has been insanely spiky.
random osprey
but as to whether it reaches the mitigation i can get from bloodsport with the rage/time i can generate, i don't think it reaches
chrome steppe
Speaking of traits, I wanted to ask a question yesterday, forgot about it, glad you brought it up again. How about the Revenge trait? Callous Reprisal, I think?
old zephyr
Motherlode is not the best exemple Because the Last 2 boss don't auto
chrome steppe
and now that I am necroing old stuff, there was also soemthing about difficulty of prot warrs - do we have the highest skill floor?
fathom marten
Absolutely
random osprey
i tend to think so
random osprey
having to actually time mitigation cooldowns makes it require more attention
fathom marten
Think of all the DR mit abilities we have to keep up. On top of that we have to generate our resource.
tight tree
Skill floor have nothing to do with how viable warriors are, top players would play most viable tanks (they have skills for it). That is not the case
random osprey
@chrome steppe I don't think Callous Reprisal is very good personally
chrome steppe
I've thought so even on the other xpacs I considered playing prot warr... So not only tanking scares the shit out of me, my class scares the shit out of me. Sadly, I find warrior the only interesting tank.
What?
I'm not talking about viability AT ALL
old zephyr
We do have things to bring on our own that can tip thé scale
tight tree
Warriors mechanics are outdated for modern damage patters. THey shifted more damage to be melee, but not enough, and even for melee other tanks simply better than warrior.
Block needs to, well, block more.
Warrior is hell of a fun to play when you actually live, a shame. I love tanking stuff i am geared for, but tanking stuff i am undergeared for is absolute pain and i rather jump on monk/DK.
fathom marten
Demo, SB, Callous, LS, IP. All of these require planning and maximum uptime. Top it off with us having a resource neededing to be generated. PLUS, demo is only really in there because of how it's designed now. Where you can shockwaves to keep it up to the point it's considered a main Dr spell.
On the other hand my monk
ISB
ISB
ISB
Pur
Done
random osprey
i also did 11k dps throughout the dungeon, so there's that
sick sentinel
Can we continue the bloodspot viability discussion?
I have it right now on my chest from zulul hc and I haven't used it before
tight tree
I dont mind planning if that bring me better result. Now even if you plan perfectly and do stuff 100%, you still have worse survivability than BM/Blood/paladin/bear
sick sentinel
Also, doesn't it get better with haste?
acoustic echo
tbh i think every top mythic Player can Play warrior to its fulltest
but why take that risk
tight tree
Also rage gen is awful. Blowing avatar before pull is awful. Unable to SB on pull without avatar/Demo is awful. Compare to DH (demon spikes are free), BM (ISB is free and 100% uptime).
acoustic echo
if you can Play other classes with less risk
random osprey
what are the numbers behind comparing prot warrior to other tanking specs?
tight tree
@acoustic echo exactly
acoustic echo
also the best of the best arent playing only for fun but for money
tight tree
I cringe every time i cast avatar out of combat pre-pull
It will never feel good, or be good ever
fathom marten
@acoustic echo Yes exactly and that's what us prot war defenders argue.
sick sentinel
You can intercept an ally twice for the rage before the pull and cast avatar mid hc leap
tight tree
@sick sentinel That is terrible solution
random osprey
i open with charge, demo shout, shield block, thunder clap, shield slam, avatar
i don't see a problem with that
tight tree
Noone should ever go this length just to keep mitigation rolling, this is absurd crutches
fathom marten
You should hit avatar sooner
random osprey
what do i gain if i use avatar sooner?
random osprey
the way i do it, there's no difference
i do my block setup, then immediate go into the avatar clap pahse
fathom marten
There is. Thunder claps are much faster letting you keep demo up for an extremely large amount of time
chrome steppe
and the typo of the day award goes to 😄
random osprey
because of the gcd right after thunder clap, casting avatar right after that halves 3 gcd's, giving you halfa second of delay before the next thunderclap
fathom marten
There is 3 abilities before your hitting avatar. That's a huge loss in uptime for demo
sick sentinel
A terrible solution yeah, but still a solution
random osprey
so long as you start the avatar phase before demo falls off, it's fine
with the amount of rage you spend, demo will be up again before the current one falls off
sick sentinel
I have had demo come off cd with like 3 sec remaining
random osprey
i usually get like 8-10 seconds remaining
fathom marten
Okay but you should know that's not playing optimally and this has been tested before .
sick sentinel
Well I am talking without bloodlust
fathom marten
You will not get maximum uptime with Demo if it's that far down in your rotation
sick sentinel
Wheres the 75% uptime ?
random osprey
i don't see it
sure avatar happens 1-2 gcd later throughout the entire fight, but that seems like a negligible difference to getting the rage from shield slam earlier
i also have two haste trinkets
so maybe that's why
i mean, you're right, i'm remembering bloodlust pahses
nevermind
sick sentinel
With bl, for how long of a fight would you think you can keep 95% demo uptime?
random osprey
is that possible? i thought 75% was the upper reaches of demo uptime
without shifting the cd alignment
sick sentinel
I mean like with BL and avatar you can keep it for like 50 sec easy
5 stacks ITF and rezans or some shit
random osprey
hmm so if i use avatar earlier in my opening, will i be able to use it again catching the end of the second demo shout?
sick sentinel
You get so much rage and it is off CD when it ends
random osprey
yeah, but weren't we talking about without BL?
sick sentinel
I said with BL, in a hypothetical scenario where you just want to get maximum demo
Realistically, I think your oppener is fine
I am memeing because there was a guy that said that he can keep 75% uptime on demo on every fight iirc
fathom marten
You shouldn't need the SS rage if your opening up on a group properly. 20 rage for pre av, charge in 15 rage demo, 35 rage right there, plus hits and your hits and a thunder clap thrown in there since avatar makes it much faster
sick sentinel
@random osprey do you have a log where you do that opener?
fathom marten
You're doing yourself an incredible disservice holding off avatar that long
Let me check. I know it's been done before
Testing it.
Think thyme did
Oh you're talking to twrtl my bad
random osprey
my thinking is, if you pre-avatar, you lose avatar time and 1-2 extensions of demo shout
i'll look for a log
sick sentinel
Well I have a question actually
I'm offtanking every boss, so I start tanking after the tank swap
So I start with rage etc
fathom marten
There's more uptime on avatar then demo, you shouldn't be wasting time away from demo when it's only 8 seconds while avatar is 20. Keeping avatar on semi CD is going to increase your total rage generation and demo shot.
sick sentinel
So I go like avatar, taunt+demo shout, TC
Is there a better start for a tank swap?
random osprey
this is when you start tanking or the start of the fight?
tight tree
Every time i tried to offtank, blow avatar on pull, rip aggro 🤣
random osprey
lol
fathom marten
Taunt first then avatar. You don't get the same rage gen because it's single target.
sick sentinel
We are double prot warr so unless I get MAD resets on SS he holds aggro
He is also good geared now
fathom marten
Ss instead of tc
sick sentinel
I ss before I taunt
fathom marten
That shouldn't be done. You want to ss after taunt
sick sentinel
Well I try to dps and I SS on cd
fathom marten
You wasted the threat increase window
sick sentinel
I don't lose aggro anyway
fathom marten
Okay that's fine but again, playing optimally. You taunt> ss> ava>demo>TC (ss and ava can be switched)
On single target
random osprey
i don't think using avatar that early is worthwhile, it'll only matter if the fight ends in between the early ava and ava after demo, which is 3 gcd's
doing demo > tc > ss > ava > tc ... gives maximum uptime on demo shout
what is the early ava optimizing for?
sick sentinel
Not having the GCD in your opener (where I find myself most vulnerable)
Not sure though
random osprey
i demo in the middle of my charge and hit sb right after so i have a defensive up at the very beginning
once that's up i set up the avatar phase, which, for maximum uptime on demo shout, allows half a gcd which i use for ss
sick sentinel
I honestly have to test that myself
Because I ava->charge
If charge was not on GCD it would be amazing
random osprey
the timing on charge > demo is tight to get it on the boss before you take the first hit
charge > demo + sb
did you still want a log?
sick sentinel
Yh
Just crit block that first hit fam, easy
Took a quick look at the logs, were you MTing mother?
random osprey
yeah
sick sentinel
70% demo uptime is really good