suddenly your Azerite Veins is ticking for 30k a tick....
#protection
sand egret
vagrant cape
@solid mist try to only use SB when damage is coming, of course, but if that's not the issue, then shield wall is a good filler as well.
In a pinch, demo shout + IP will keep you up, if only shakily
wild bolt
@solid mist Yeah, the downtime helps a ton here. There's also DS (which is up often enough to overlap on a lot of thrashes - this is a great fight for extended DS's too) and it's pretty easy to keep IP up for each Thrash also.
vagrant cape
but with the time the boss spends running to the things to eat, you shouldn't have many problems with keeping mitigation up
wild bolt
Plus, don't forget SW. You'll only get it off once during the fight, but if there's a situation where all your other coolies are down and he isn't running off, pop SW and let everything finish recharging
solid mist
yeah. bummer SW isn't affected by AM
vagrant cape
you can get it off twice in a 5 minute fight if you use it on pull ๐
AM can get shield wall down to about 2:40
wild bolt
Well, we aren't doing Mythic, and our Heroic kills average between 3:30 and 3:50ish
vagrant cape
more or less
wild bolt
Yeah AM affects SW
just not enough for that fight because it's so short
(at least for me)
vagrant cape
true
solid mist
yeah I mean, it does affect SW, but most times you are using it well in to the fight
so kinda of doesn't matter ๐
junior ivy
im still confused
signal plover
Gnomes can no longer be warriora
signal plover
That's the only confirmed 8.1 change
quiet sierra
Is the gnome thing real or is that a joke
wild bolt
Quite sure it's a joke
junior ivy
its the absolute best class/race combination in the game
wild bolt
In a world where Tauren don't exist...sure! ๐
solid mist
I dunno, Tauren <anything> is a pretty dope combo
vagrant cape
I'm looking at sense's logs. This warrior knows what's up. Mmm... so many cooldowns used... it's beautiful.
wild bolt
His stream is well worth a follow.
junior ivy
you needed that to restore your faith in humanity after looking at my logs eh @vagrant cape ?
vagrant cape
nah, I just wanted to compare mine to the best of the best and see what the biggest differences are
12 spell reflects on mythic vectis in a 7-minute fight.... so juicy...
wild bolt
@vagrant cape I feel like SR an ability I could always use more often than I do and get way more mileage out of it.
I never thought to use it on Vectis. I use it tons on Zek'Voz (Void Lash) and Mythrax (his tank swap ability that I'm forgetting the name of) but never thought about Vectis. Sheesh.
I think it's real easy to fall into the trap of "well hey we got it down pretty easily so I must've done ok" when in reality there's almost always more tweaks that I can do to squeeze more production out.
solid mist
is he just using it off cooldown on that fight? or for something in particular?
static pilot
If he was using it on CD he could do ~16 SRs in 7 minutes, I'm guessing he's using it for the tank swap mechanic
And/or reduce the dot tick when he knows the intermission is coming up
sand egret
aka some pro-ass shit
definitely enjoy hopping into his stream. I'd also recommend it
quaint kiln
Link?
wild bolt
He's @snse on Twitch
signal plover
He's using it to negate the application of lingering infection after he gets Omega vector (u SR when the vector has low time remaining and it doesn't apply LI to you)
Iirc they intentionally drop one on him every now n then and have him reflect it off
dusk locust
might be forgetting something here, but why don't the tanks each stack with a group to help spread lingering infection out more?
signal plover
They can
dusk locust
i don't see that done typically
dusk locust
hm ok that'd do it
fresh dragon
speaking about vectis m?
signal plover
Mhm
raven kernel
the lingering debuff
increases nature dmg taken
and the tank dot
is nature dmg
it hurts
thats why tanks dont help soak
sometimes during intermission etc it may spread to tanks
a stack or 2 is fine
but you dont wanna have too much
thin mortar
its a shame you cant spell reflect omega vector back at the ally that sends it your way ๐ฎ
fresh dragon
@raven kernel i usually soak
raven kernel
as warrior you should
fresh dragon
oh... i can swear u i was the best soaker of my entire raid ;D
i find vectis quite easy for us... not so much damage on us at all
mint moon
So I was reading the ptr patch notes and the "new" prot mastery looks the exact same as it is on live?
vocal nimbus
does vector omega disappear completely when you spell reflect?
i mean, does it go back to the party?
fresh dragon
@vocal nimbus didnt try it to be honest
jade socket
It goes to the next person you just donโt get a stack
fresh dragon
thats nice
signal plover
@mint moon it was likely just some tooltip maintenance they were doing.
void sandal
So last night I tried to tank a pug for shrine +7. Someone pulled adds (attendants or templars) every single pull and then asked me why I couldn't tank them. Maybe it's because I'm taking 2.4 times the magic damage I wanted to take, and now there's an elemental aoeing us all that can't be killed because you aren't focusing the templar you just pulled.
signal plover
Sounds about on par
ember arrow
not your fault
thin mortar
typical pug
fresh dragon
pug is like a roll.. u can win and u can lose
sand egret
Yeah that just sounds like a typical pug-fail. Sorry you had to deal with that ๐ฆ
tropic star
someone was talknig about zek voss and BDK being best for soaking combo? What was their advantage
seems like warriors have Demo, SR, Laststand for every single comboand can bad them with some IPs
tropic star
was able to take all 3 hits on mythic pretty consistently.
well no question they are good for gorefiending the small stuff
neat harbor
did you guys hear the great news for prot?
fresh dragon
whats the news?
neat harbor
in 8.1, blizzard is going to let us keep our mastery
So stoked, I got worried it was being removed for good
๐
signal plover
Is joke
brittle timber
it reads like a slight change in they way our base block chance will scale?
neat harbor
lol I didnt read any notes myself, just going by what the tank for my guild told me
signal plover
It's just typical datamined "change" confusion.
tropic star
mastery was gone
neat harbor
like they removed our mastery and then gave it back on PTR, "were not sure how to fix your spec, so for now, here, have your mastery back"
sand egret
haha
neat harbor
I suppose... theres enough time still for us to get some stuff before 8.1? or no?
sand egret
....
fresh dragon
Mastery: Critical Block (New) Increases your chance to block by [ 50% of Spell Power ]% and your chance to critically block (blocking twice the amount) by [ 150% of Spell Power ]%. Also increases your attack power by 0.0%. Warrior - Protection Spec. Warrior - Protection Spec.
fresh dragon
ok but whats this?
neat harbor
Im assuming the patch could be far off still?
uneven mason
How to fix warriors - give us the T21 4p, have it boost our next IP by 25% of the blocked damage.
final mist
PTR literally went up like a week ago. Ya'll need to chill.
neat harbor
mannoroth's bloodletting manacles passive please.
neat harbor
in addition to fixing IP
fresh dragon
@final mist ok but Mastery: Critical Block (New) Increases your chance to block by [ 50% of Spell Power ]% and your chance to critically block (blocking twice the amount) by [ 150% of Spell Power ]%. Also increases your attack power by 0.0%. Warrior - Protection Spec. Warrior - Protection Spec.
what is means?
neat harbor
spell power? wot?
final mist
It means that the Mastery is exactly the same as it was.
neat harbor
it means AP surely
fresh dragon
it was WHEN?
final mist
That SP is a datamine fuckup from (I'm assuming) MMOC.
uneven mason
I mean, IP doesn't need much, the IP change I suggested there would basically give us stronger durability against trash in M+
neat harbor
hows this for an IP change, just let it frikkin' scale as it used to.
sand egret
@fresh dragon I'm pretty sure that's the same tooltip as it is currently
neat harbor
and take off the GCD.
sand egret
at least according to wowdb atm
neat harbor
IP just needs to scale like it used to ffs
fresh dragon
u can label me as pessimist but i think they wont change protection warrior at all in 8.1
sand egret
you're going to be 100% wrong haha
wild atlas
Lol
sand egret
we'll get changes, it's a question of what
brittle timber
Just letting us stack IP more than the 130% would be pretty good.
final mist
The Mastery is exactly the same, wherever you got that one containing Spell Power is a fuck up, which should be common sense, considering we don't scale with Int or SP at all.
neat harbor
spell power = AP from STR Im guessing
sand egret
there's an aura that converts AP to SP
fresh dragon
some here remember the old time "WORK AS INTENDED" sentence ๐
sand egret
that is applied to "spells" for non-casters
neat harbor
at least it feels good to have over 200k passive HP now
Ive been gearing for prot still lul in hopes that it wil get buffed
wild atlas
They came out and SAID improvements will be done in 8.1 with minor tuning in this current patch.
neat harbor
at 370 equipped now
final mist
Changes are coming, ya'll just need to sit down and be patient.
neat harbor
Im choosing to be optimistic
final mist
PTR just went up like a week ago and there's been 2 updates.
wild atlas
^thank you
ruby sapphire
My guild makes fun of me for wanting to play prot. I can't be too patient.
vocal nimbus
change guild
sand egret
people really don't get how long it takes to put stuff like that up from start > finish haha
earnest zinc
Prot has been the worst tank since 7.1.5
neat harbor
no judge me
final mist
Yeah, sure, we shouldn't be here in the first place, but that doesn't change the fact that changes are coming and ya'll need to fuckin' chill.
neat harbor
mmmmm no
earnest zinc
We deserve buffs
neat harbor
prot was good when IP was 90%
final mist
We were far from the worst tank at multiple points in Legion.
earnest zinc
We more than earned a spot in the meta in 8.1
fresh dragon
i want MASS SPELL REFLECTION on pve. could be a great utility in raid...
final mist
We aren't even the worst tank right now.
vocal nimbus
we already have rallying cry
earnest zinc
Yea, druid might be slightly worse I guess
neat harbor
isnt DH worse for mythic prog as well?
fresh dragon
not even close to be good as a mass SR
neat harbor
cause they get like one shot if they run out of AM
earnest zinc
DH has a M+ niche
ruby sapphire
it's def not the worst tank, but all the memes say we are
sand egret
they should put in a bunch of string changes but actually not change anything to see how much of this is purely a social construct ๐
earnest zinc
Prot is just a bad tank
fresh dragon
prot is not a bad tank
final mist
And that's just not true, Garun.
fresh dragon
is an inconsistent tank
fresh dragon
our hp drop is too fast
final mist
Prot is bad in incapable hands, much like any other tank.
vocal nimbus
So we got to the moment when its better to stop looking at #protection
sand egret
Bad tanks are bad tanks
vocal nimbus
๐ bye
neat harbor
well said takkero, the isssue is spikes in TTL
sweet kettle
yeah cause bm monks need alot of skill
fresh dragon
well @final mist monk's stagger is too OP ๐
sand egret
I think people conflate skill with effectiveness
final mist
And that doesn't change the fact that bad monks will die as easily as any other bad tank of any class.
neat harbor
stagger is an example of "designing yourself into a hole". It's been broken from the moment it was conceived.
sand egret
disagree
final mist
Bad Warriors die because they don't use SB or IP, bad monks die because they don't use ISB or Purify.
neat harbor
transforming burst damage into a "DoT" epitomizes the ideal of "damage smoothing"
it should never have been implemented.
sand egret
also disagree
fresh dragon
yes @final mist but now i have rerolled from war prot to monk BM and its wayyy too easy ๐
neat harbor
also ISB is absurdly easy to maintain
sweet kettle
warriors die because they are not as consistent as other tanks
sand egret
again skill =/= effectiveness
neat harbor
whereas shield block = impossible to maintain
ruby sapphire
weave in last stand?
lusty grotto
is that time of the day again?
final mist
Warriors are a high skill floor tank. Changes are likely going to be made to lower that.
final mist
That doesn't mean Prot is a bad tank.
sand egret
๐
neat harbor
it doesnt mean prot is a bad tank, only worse.
final mist
That just means people are bad at playing said tank.
fresh dragon
@final mist that sound like an excuse.....
sand egret
?
sweet kettle
compared to the other tanks prot is bad i dont know what you on about
final mist
I don't understand what that means, Takkero.
sweet kettle
why play prot when a monk can do the same job much easier
mellow bridge
He's just being salty
lusty grotto
"easier is better" which is why i play Souls games
dusk locust
because it's more engaging
wild atlas
Like everything out of @fresh dragon mouth today. Utter crap lol
final mist
Why play a DH, or DH, or Paladin if BRM are that much better than everyone else?
ruby sapphire
prot isnt FOTM
final mist
For 99% of players, it doesn't matter.
sand egret
unless you're basically trying to beat Method
sweet kettle
yeah but its not about the 99% all the time
vocal nimbus
Patience test for sal ๐ฐ
neat harbor
and no matter how good you are at prot rn, the issue is your active mit will fall off at odd times, totally beyond your control. Can you mitigate this loss with knowing exactly when to time shield block and LS? sure, but its just an extremely punishing way to play as opposed to a BrM who has 100% ISB uptime without thinking (I play one)
final mist
Then why say that Prot sucks because BRM exists?
sand egret
this really doesn't apply in most cases. Prot is doing all the content the other tanks are
if YOU can't do it
that's a you thing
as it's been done
it's just harder,.
earnest zinc
DK is the OP tank
fresh dragon
its not that war prot sucks.. its just that u can do the same with less effort using BRM
neat harbor
noone is arguing its impossible, were saying its one of the worst.
thin mortar
๐ฟ
sand egret
but this is where your point breaks down
earnest zinc
Brew just allowed top guilds to cheese gear checks with stagger
sweet kettle
yes and this time around is prot
ember arrow
id argue bear is worse off
ruby sapphire
saying it's the worst is a poor choice of words
ember arrow
@lusty grotto whats up?
neat harbor
there shouldnt be though. and I would argue the "worst" tanks are worse by enough of a margin now that tuning is needed. Im optimistic like I said for the patch
I didnt say it was the worst, I said it was one of the worst
lusty grotto
great minds think alike lol
fresh dragon
@final mist not speaking about wost of best.. just MORE EFFORT/LESS EFFORT needed
sand egret
but that's a personal thing
ruby sapphire
the difficulty curve is higher than other tanks so when a whole bunch of people don't know how to play the spec play it and then complain it's too hard then people will say it's the worst
sand egret
how much effort do you want to put into playing your character?
lusty grotto
too many goddamn points here: "x tank is easier", "x tank is better" - choose one
sweet kettle
you need to play perfectly to achieve the same result and there is way more risk for you to fuck up
mellow bridge
What's the issue with some tanks taking more effort than others? Some DPS take more effor than others and I'm sure the same goes for healers
ruby sapphire
that's what makes it fun
sand egret
lol the literal reason I choose prot
mellow bridge
It's called having different skill floors and ceilings for different classes
which makes the decision interesting for people
neat harbor
its not a personal thing, its a spec thing. maybe you're the best prot warrior in the world, until your guild gets that mythrax/g'huun attempt to 10%, then you die when you overlap shit at the wrong time and realize you're human
sweet kettle
cause people judge the performance of everybody
mellow bridge
Just like a shadowpriest in Legion was a shitton harder than a BM Hunter
mellow bridge
doesnt make it "the worst dps"
sweet kettle
i dont see alot of fire mages running around
lusty grotto
hold up, are people dying as tanks to raids because of class balance?
ruby sapphire
this dude trolling
neat harbor
at some point
mellow bridge
get a WA for your SB/LS if you dont have one
neat harbor
whereas the BrM who fucked up can just roll with it
mellow bridge
put it somewhere in the middle
lusty grotto
he was trolling the other day too, i just trolled back
mellow bridge
and youll never do it again
fresh dragon
lol... reading here u guys means u are all 8/8 Mythic
lusty grotto
apparently you can solo raids
mellow bridge
Actually I don't even raid, I just try to push m+
lusty grotto
its all on you bros
mellow bridge
atm at around +12/13
fresh dragon
i found m+ more easy than mythic raid
mellow bridge
If you die because of your own skill failure and you don't like that design
then maybe switch to a class where that doesnt happen
Just like a SPriest is going to drop off harder in dps than a BM if he fucks up, we die faster
ruby sapphire
I think raids are easier than M+
mellow bridge
Skill floors and ceilings lads
lusty grotto
ayy
mellow bridge
(talking about Legion for SPriest, I have no idea how it is in bfa actually lmao)
fresh dragon
@ruby sapphire go to fetid Mythic than comes back ;D
sand egret
(its crap but solid point)
final mist
Mythic Fetid isn't as hard as people think.
mellow bridge
Could Prot need a small buff? Sure, maybe
ruby sapphire
I mean if there are prot warriors who killed it already then I probably can
fresh dragon
dunno.. will try it in 1 hour
mellow bridge
Is prot being harder than other tanks inherently bad and should be changed? Don't think so
sand egret
Boy I hope they don't give us brain-dead 100% uptime
fresh dragon
its a 5 min fight. in that time u cannot make ANY error or u are fucked
mellow bridge
Sounds good to me
ruby sapphire
then dont make errors
young harbor
LOL
sand egret
sounds like a fun fight
final mist
You can say that about any fight, Takkero.
mellow bridge
I play well and get rewarded
final mist
Welcome t omythic raiding.
neat harbor
you guys keep repeating this mantra, "prot is harder, l2p", thats such a misinterpretation of the state of the spec. It's more of a, "prot is flawed, so if you don't compensate for that by playing perfectly, you're fucked" situation.
fresh dragon
nhaaaa in
fresh dragon
in Vectis Mythic u can slack
final mist
"Don't fuck up or we won't kill this boss."
fresh dragon
as much as u want
ruby sapphire
if you can't play good for 5 min you prob shouldnt be in a mythic raid
final mist
"Don't fuck up Omea Vectors or miss soaks, or we wipe."
ruby sapphire
imo
fresh dragon
i mean tanking
final mist
"Don't drop shit in the wrong spot on Zek'voz or we wipe."
fresh dragon
not the entire raid
neat harbor
all the stuff you're saying is just raid awareness
final mist
"Don't mistime your shit for Zek'voz's combo or we wipe."
fresh dragon
i find Vectis easy as Taloc
ruby sapphire
dont get hit by frontal cones
final mist
What I'm saying is, "Oh it's a 5 minute fight we you can't fuck up" goes for literally every fight
fresh dragon
nono
final mist
If you're having trouble on Fetid, that's on you, not the class
neat harbor
its no justification for why your spec should be so bad that you have an additional layer of punishment for small mistakes.
fresh dragon
coz if u die the entire raid has to die
final mist
That goes for literally every fight
fresh dragon
if a dps die u can go on and let ppl learn more step
sand egret
that has nothing to do with prot warriors
ruby sapphire
that's what it means to be a tank
fresh dragon
ye but the DEATH ration in fetis is like 100:1
sand egret
that is a) a tanking thing b) an encounter thing
final mist
And there's nothing to learn on Fetid, it's the same fight the entire time
young harbor
๐ฟ
final mist
Hit boss -> Kill adds -> Don't stand in shit
Rinse and repeat for 5 minutes (or 3 add phases)
Fetid is not a difficult fight for tanks at all
neat harbor
Ill say it again, its not that "prot has a higher skill cap so l2p", it's, "prot is fundamentally flawed, so it demands higher precision just to equalize with other tanks"
sand egret
Which is derived from a false premise.
ruby sapphire
i cant even
neat harbor
that being said, I think IP has the potential to be the filler that we need between shield block downtime.
mellow bridge
Why is it flawed that one tnak needs more skill than others
neat harbor
but not in its current state
ruby sapphire
wat
neat harbor
its flawed because if played at 100%, one tank is simply stronger.
light oasis
That will always be the case
ruby sapphire
do you not use IP?
neat harbor
a BrM with 100% ISB uptime still has stagger, a DK still has a billion self heals for burst.
sweet kettle
i dont know but when a monk stands still presses one button and i need to play my rotation perfectly i dont find that amazing or enjoyable
neat harbor
a warrior with perfect AM uptime still has neither of those things
sand egret
then play a monk
neat harbor
I do.
sand egret
then what is the point?
lusty grotto
then why the fuck are you here LOL
sand egret
of being here complaining?
sweet kettle
yeah but dont tell me that warrior prot isnt shit
ruby sapphire
@neat harbor do you use IP?
sand egret
no, you want Prot to be liek BrM
neat harbor
of course?
thin mortar
what isn't enjoyable about playing your spec to the best of your ability?
ruby sapphire
ok just needed to make sure
neat harbor
I dont want prot to be like BrM lol, I want them to tune IP so that is an adequate filler for mitigation.
sand egret
oi
lusty grotto
ah you mean ezmode
neat harbor
it needs to scale, it needs to be off the GCD.
lusty grotto
rofl
thin mortar
dude, just use revenge to clear up that excess rage blade
fresh dragon
@neat harbor u can stop trying to convince them. here all are war prot defenders ๐
final mist
Prot's biggest problem is mistakes are too punishing (I.E. not hitting / mistiming SB & IP), so any large buffs are likely to be passive buffs similar to what we've already seen to lessen ther negative impacts of mistakes.
Aside from any other changes.
neat harbor
IP being on the GCD just has other smaller but practical issues, like forcing you to let TC/ShBash sit off cooldown for a global while you press it
thin mortar
I agree with Sal. gameplay wise prot is enjoyable I think
neat harbor
on top of the pure mitigation issues it has
prot is very enjoyable play wise. thats why i have high hopes for it still
thin mortar
reported for spam
snow dirge
Pls sir
lusty grotto
GCD isn't going away
neat harbor
right
lusty grotto
it doesn't matter how much you bitch and moan,
sweet kettle
i dont mind the gcd of IP its just the ability by itself is shit
lusty grotto
if IP goes off the GCD, they will have to tune other classes the same way
neat harbor
it makes 0 sense as to why prot is the only(?) tank with active mit on the GCD, so therefore I fully expect blizzard to leave it as is.
sweet kettle
IP isnt active mitigation
hearty flicker
^
neat harbor
well
neat harbor
its a form of mitigation
hearty flicker
pally heal is on the gcd
lusty grotto
uhhh... Prot paladin heal is on GCD too now
final mist
IP isn't our AM.
tidal fjord
it's more pre-emptive mitigation/a buffer to help healers catch up
final mist
SB is our AM.
tidal fjord
Our AM is SB
sweet kettle
everything aside from active mitigation is on the gcd and that is for all the tanks
final mist
Other tanks also have post-mitigation abilities on the GCD (Paladin, DK, etc).
tidal fjord
If you're using IP as an oh shit button then you're probably already dead lol
sweet kettle
prot lacks self sustain that is why is a bad tank
solid mist
leave it on the GCD... just make it feel good to press
lusty grotto
no he just wants to use only IP and live forever like in pre EN legion
final mist
Us lacking self-sustain is not why we're "bad".
sweet kettle
in raids you can play what you want but the game isnt only raids
neat harbor
IP is used as active mit more or less, even though its technically an absorb
neat harbor
if you were to say Shield block was our only mitigation, we would clearly be inferior to other tanks who have 100% uptime on theirs
sweet kettle
no its not
final mist
IP is additional mitigation.
neat harbor
semantics.
ruby sapphire
oof
sick sentinel
semantics.
tidal fjord
I call it healer buffer ๐
final mist
There are other tanks that also have less than 100% mitigation uptime, and that doesn't make them bad.
neat harbor
in any case it needs a buff (IP), ill hope for the best
sick sentinel
l2play.
stark sage
tanks have primary and secondary mitigations, we have block and IP. monks have fort and purify, druids have frenzied and ironfur
sick sentinel
time to install new GPU RTX 2080Ti xd
lusty grotto
let's not forget Demo Shout
sweet kettle
how many tanks need to waste resources for there active mitigation
final mist
SB and IP have <100% uptime is not why we're "bad".
hearty flicker
Only monks and druids can keep their AM up 100%
hearty flicker
and Im not even sure druids can do it with the rage changes
lusty grotto
can't tell if trolling
ruby sapphire
hmmmm
lusty grotto
def sarcastic
thin mortar
what would you think if they made victory rush baseline, but work like, 5% upfront and another 5% as a hot?
thin mortar
well, impending victory
final mist
zVictory Rush already is baseline.
neat harbor
but think about this also, deafening crash is like bar none one of the most broken tank traits in the game, they nerfed the other ones, but DC is untouched. WHy? Because they realize that core functionality of our entire spec is now dependent upon a single azerite trait. Who honestly thinks this was by design?
thin mortar
yeah, I goofed. :sad:
stark sage
a 10% heal that cost rage, doesnt sound appealing
tidal fjord
Everyone keeps saying make Mannoroth Bracers baseline
thin mortar
% would be determined by blizz ofc
tidal fjord
for self sustain help
sweet kettle
i dont know sal logs and rio score says otherwise
final mist
Bracers would not help as much as people think, because again, this sin't Legion.
vagrant cape
I'd kill for another rage dump, honestly. If IP is full, revenge proc occurs, SB is out of charges, and you're full on rage, I'd love another button to press
neat harbor
it goes to show how badly they fumbled the spec, to virtually require a trait (deafening crash) to make it function at an acceptable level.
sick sentinel
So now you want to be a DK
final mist
We don't generate or spend nearly as much Rage as we used to.
tidal fjord
Don't want to be a DK
tidal fjord
Manno wouldn't heal that much... just some padding
hot locust
To be fair bracers were really good even in EN and we are generating about as much rage back then as we are now.
tidal fjord
It's either that or the impeding victory baseline which feels like another button to push
ember arrow
@vagrant cape it was a hypothetical question
neat harbor
DKs can just negate big burst with their cooldowns, which is really the only time cooldowns even matter
final mist
What I mean, Lala, is that people go,"Oh bracers' effect would solve all our issues!"
WHich is just false
tidal fjord
There comes a point about 5 seconds into the pull where everything stabilizes and you cap on rage quite often
hot locust
Yeah it wouldn't.
tidal fjord
esp with Booming Voice
neat harbor
again Ill state the point with deafening crash, tying up our usefulness into an azerite trait is bad design.
vagrant cape
if there was a button that was off the GCD, had no cooldown, and cost 10 rage I'd be on cloud 9 even if it did absolutely nothing
tidal fjord
@neat harbor yeah sorry man I never commented on that but I absolutely agree
...heroic strike? do we want heroic strike back?
neat harbor
deafening crash accounts for an absurd amount of damage reduction
sick sentinel
Bring back alpha IP, that ate you rage bar ๐
neat harbor
I miss heroic strike tbh, I guess you could argue they just baked it into revenge
maybe make revenge deal damage based on max targets hit?
but prot damage is already high
so thats not an issue
tidal fjord
Yeah we don't need damage too badly
past ledge
whats the best AOE M+ caster ?
tidal fjord
@vagrant cape wants a rage dump I can't disagree with that
sick sentinel
Frost mage or aff lock probably
past ledge
my comp is Fury warrior Rogue and just missing one
tidal fjord
I'm capped at 100 and I either SB/IP to bump it down or I weave IP inbetween, it feels meh.
Plus doesn't IP only stack 1.5 times now?
vagrant cape
I don't think my problem should ever be "I have too much rage. shit." that's fury's class fantasy, not mine
1.3x, @tidal fjord
tidal fjord
๐ cool so it's even more meh
vagrant cape
it's still a 50kish absorb with no CD
neat harbor
@final mist "SB and IP have <100% uptime is not why we're "bad". If ignore pain was a better buffer, I honestly think we would be fine. the issue is smashing a full rage GCD for ignore pain and having it taken off in a single hit.
vagrant cape
it's not as bad as people make it out to be
tidal fjord
Yeah it's not as bad it just isn't as good either ๐
lusty grotto
but... IP only absorbs 50% damage
tidal fjord
That's why I label IP as the "healer catch up button"
when the pull stabilizes and you're at half hp you can begin weaving it in to help them catch up
boreal depot
For M+ this week, whats more important.. making sure you have a deaf crash on a piece or gemhide?
lusty grotto
wtf?
neat harbor
deaf crash.
tidal fjord
deaf crash
neat harbor
without question
uneven mason
I mean effectively Nimchip - IP in a raid setting has yet to last longer than a single hit from a mechanic where it practically matters.
tidal fjord
it sucks but you need it more than a +30 ilvl increase
lusty grotto
gemhide?
neat harbor
its literally like 1000% better than gemhide lol
vagrant cape
this is a small nitpick, but thematically "Ignore Pain" shouldn't take a GCD to accomplish. If they changed the name to something like "Brace Yourself" it'd make more sense to be on the GCD.
tidal fjord
"Tighten Anus"
vagrant cape
why does it take a moment to ignore something?
neat harbor
but youre comparing a defensive trait to a spec trait, so yeah the inner trait is weaker
uneven mason
@tidal fjord DC is worth more than 30ilvls
neat harbor
like always
tidal fjord
yeah baby
tidal fjord
hahahahah
lusty grotto
it's worth 2 expansions, let's be fair
neat harbor
who else hears the emissary azerite scaling up to 370 soon?
lusty grotto
only fair
tidal fjord
yeah sounds cool
neat harbor
will be nice to get a 370 TC piece soon at least.
tidal fjord
can get from 340 to 370 the exact same way I got to 340
neat harbor
right, before I forget
tidal fjord
๐คท
neat harbor
before I forget....
uneven mason
Yeah, I can be disappointed in higher item levels now
neat harbor
TC cant even be obtained on anything over 340 gear except by PURE RNG
gfg
so were all nursing our 340 TC gear
uneven mason
Like "Hey guys, Emmisary will scale to 370 - during the next raid tier, WHERE YOU"LL BE WEARING ILVL 425 GEAR"
tidal fjord
I like the idea of the new trait layer that's spec specific
neat harbor
cause reasons
tidal fjord
seems like they're gonna try to add unique traits too. Anyone notice the DK molten ghoul chain?
sand egret
@vagrant cape that's why I want IP to have a healing component based off of the total damage taken. Thematically speaking, you take the hit and then fight through it
frosty wedge
lol naw they said the emmisary thing will probably be hotfixed
neat harbor
Uldir not even dropping a piece of TC loot is utter nonsense
uneven mason
getting a 370 DC piece - when I'm at ilvl 420
Feels.....just as bad as 340 vs a 385
neat harbor
AND further proof that TC being so strong was not intended
light oasis
They said the 370 would be a hot fix for this tier tho
neat harbor
otherwise theyd have made other avenues to obtain it
light oasis
Read the last paragraph of the blue post
frosty wedge
they specifically said the 370 will be a hotfix now - and that that number will go up when the next tier launches.
tidal fjord
@light oasis that's true. I'm sure they'll bump it even higher for 8.1
uneven mason
It really just feels like they considered DC in a Vacuum
tidal fjord
we're just a lil' jaded at this point
uneven mason
like not considering the synergy with UF
frosty wedge
and AM
neat harbor
ya I think so @uneven mason
uneven mason
not a big surprise since they had NFC What they were doing for all of beta with us.
neat harbor
heres my TLDR point, I think the only reason prot is even viable in its current state is because blizzard fumbled into an OP azerite trait with DC.
boreal depot
hotfix when?
vagrant cape
I like to hope that DC was intended to be how all azerite traits were supposed to be. Big playstyle-defining bonuses akin to tier sets.
I don't know what went wrong, but I have no idea what actually happened.
lusty grotto
Bootyclap
boreal depot
come here girl let me give you the clap
neat harbor
I love the trait, I just know its absurdly OP compared to all the other tank traits
and the reason they ahvent nerfed it is because they realize what a spot were in without it
tidal fjord
If they nerf anything it'd be Unstoppable Force
lusty grotto
Tank needs to be easier+better
Nerf DC
Logic flew out the window
neat harbor
who the fuck said to nerf DC?
tidal fjord
Also wtf our talents suck guys
someone was mentioning that maybe we change revenge to do more damage per enemy hit?
That's a talent. Best Served Cold
And it's ass
tidal fjord
I think OP is O.K. It's just difficult when a very necessary tank function relies on a helmet/chest/shoulder being just right
neat harbor
otherwise ele shamsn wouldnt be earthshocking ppl for 75k
and firemages wouldnt be globaling ppl in <2 seconds in pvp
sand egret
did someone mention ๐ป ๐ต ๐ ?
lusty grotto
haha
tidal fjord
well stick a pumpkin up my ass and call me spooky
valid yew
how to prot warriors survive the combo from zek'voz in mythic?
ember arrow
block shatter
valid yew
just shield block it?
ember arrow
ye
SR first and another cd on second
i dont paly warr but thats how id do it
๐
thorny laurel
How is Archive in M+ compared to the other traits? Cuz its not saying it in the guides
vocal nimbus
Cant you last stand every zek combo?
ember arrow
yes
vocal nimbus
i guess that would be pretty enough
with some ip/sr
to be fair the hardest hitting part of zekvoz are the autoattacks
steel mauve
You dont use archive outside of uldir, the only reason you really want one is the array for the secondary stat, otherwise outside of the raid theres better options
small flicker
tanking heroic uldir on a alt at 340 ilvl and its working. is this normal?
frosty wedge
yep
vocal nimbus
240 str is a nice boost
even more when its at 20 stacks through almost all the dungeon
ember arrow
yes
ember arrow
116 wipes xd
sand egret
woooo
ember arrow
many people were changed lol
in course of 2 weeks
today new groud 8 peopel
we kill
group
dusk locust
grats! hoping we get it in a few hours here
ember arrow
finally my pain is over
junior ivy
๐ฆ ๐ฐ ๐
ember arrow
no more suffering
junior ivy
grats grats grats
dusk locust
did you do vectis?
junior ivy
ity took me forever to find the right emojis for that grats so appreciate it
lusty grotto
๐ข ๐ต ๐
dusk locust
i thought most people were going to vectis after zek
lusty grotto
bootyclap!
sand egret
๐ข ๐ต ๐ !
lusty grotto
haha
sand egret
The Official Prot Warrior Salute
dusk locust
heh
chrome falcon
@ember arrow Make sure that you take every other Omega Vector from your group, spell reflect just before it runs out and you won't get a stack
You can remove 1/8ths of all Lingering Infection debuffs from the entire encounter
By properly spell reflecting
dusk locust
do you have someone stack on you
chrome falcon
Basically I just say "Ok whoever has Vector on yellow, dump it on me"
I stand like 2yrds away from yellow marker
Get the debuff
Run back in
Pop SR 4 seconds before it runs out
Then whoever gets THAT omega vector gives it back to me
And SR is back up again
dusk locust
did you balance it between two of the groups
chrome falcon
So for MY group, omega vectors basically happen half as often as other marker
No but that would technically be more efficient I suppose
A lot more awkward to execute too
dusk locust
in theory you could probably make that group a smaller group
and then always do that group
chrome falcon
I guess so
But it's not really necessary
We just had 5 people on each group, and I just helped my group out
It was pretty fucking funny, I had Vector debuff for about half the fight and I was like 10th on damage taken from it
Because I ended the fight with basically no stacks
(please don't look at my melee swing damage taken it is very embarrassing and i was busy yelling at people to hit adds)
ember arrow
@chrome falcon im not a prot warrior ๐
chrome falcon
Oh you said you could offtank FETID, thought you said vectis
ember arrow
no we gonna do vectis i heard 5 minutes after i told that in chat
my point was that im physically an unable to spell reflect
since im not a prot warrior
frosty wedge
BDK?
ember arrow
yes
although i appreciate the time you took to advice me @chrome falcon
i will look over his tactics in next couple of days
ember arrow
no
winter aspen
So how is the โbuffโ ?
lusty grotto
oh well shit
ember arrow
its an emote
lusty grotto
@winter aspen
winter aspen
Check the chimps btw
lusty grotto
ember arrow
@lusty grotto
lusty grotto
o
ember arrow
that was like a year + ago
chrome harbor
poor hit rating?
lusty grotto
don't lie
lusty grotto
i heard he kinda went ragey at the end
ember arrow
yea
lusty grotto
that was during my break
winter aspen
Ah I see
lusty grotto
wtf where did Thyme go
ember arrow
@lusty grotto
winter aspen
so the "buff" is a big fuck you
lusty grotto
wasn't he on like yesterday
ember arrow
he lft skyhold
winter aspen
one more cock to the player's ass from Blizzard. Roger that
timid jay
@thyme
ember arrow
why, he wants to keep private
timid jay
10k behind me levko
sick sentinel
Is there sth new on the ptr for us?
timid jay
And I think I just doubled my posts in here during BfA
ember arrow
@winter aspen i think you underestimate it
its not exactly game breaking, but its a buff nonetheless
and its meant as an "inbetween" sort of buff
stone crag
:thyme:
ember arrow
can u see waht ur first message was
lusty grotto
i mean, if you like C on A, then yes
winter aspen
1/3 of PW:fortitude is a buff ?
winter aspen
how about shield block now has +1 charge
stone crag
what
lusty grotto
.....................
winter aspen
Indomitable should be passive by now aswell
lusty grotto
@timid jay what happened to Thyme? did he quit?
winter aspen
who in their right mind would take 10% hp talent
timid jay
quit wow and left server
stone crag
just left skyhold
quartz pond
thyme is gone
lusty grotto
awww
timid jay
Last I heard hes sitting out this tier at least
lusty grotto
@winter aspen what talent? lol
winter aspen
Exactly
lusty grotto
i'm not sure what your point is
lusty grotto
i'm having problems following your line of thought
sick sentinel
You noobs know shield block baseline is +1 charge, and you get 2nd while lvling
Right?
lusty grotto
โ
winter aspen
Oh jeez
quartz pond
BIG info
lusty grotto
i mean it's right there in the pins
sick sentinel
smh
quartz pond
oof
lusty grotto
tank fite
sick sentinel
Tank is tank
quartz pond
the truth is
hot locust
@timid jay no booli ๐ก
lusty grotto
this is gonna get interesting
timid jay
@hot locust yes booli ๐ก
timid jay
๐
quartz pond
jesus christ prot is just weebs now
winter aspen
That happens when the oldest tank in the game gets trashed on
ember arrow
omg i found it
timid jay
Is Marok a weeb?
stone crag
of course
quartz pond
did u leave memhold
timid jay
Ok
quartz pond
cusmu?
timid jay
yes
quartz pond
why?
lusty grotto
rofl
quartz pond
sounds credible
lusty grotto
Sense please be a bastion of normalcy, please
quartz pond
sense is the only "normal" person
lusty grotto
did you just call Sense a normie?
quartz pond
since akmandor
lusty grotto
lol
quartz pond
but ya we miss u cusmuk
mellow bridge
Weebs unite
timid jay
not really active in any discord outside of the guild discord anymore
mellow bridge
This is where I'd use my weeb emotes if they weren't disabled here
timid jay
think he was playing paladin though
lusty grotto
thank jesus you guys deviated from Prot Rant #22412414141 of the day
mellow bridge
@lusty grotto Dae prot so bad I can't even clear my +3 without dying wtf
quartz pond
oh this terrible looking website again
shut summit
sick sentinel
not for small brains. sorry @quartz pond
sick sentinel
and well, prot warrs have a lot of thos lately it seems.
lusty grotto
lol
mellow bridge
Btw sense I tried out storm bolt in a few pugs now and I gotta say I like it
Thanks again
shut summit
ye
sick sentinel
heh
lusty grotto
my guild has 2 King's Rest 9 keys to push /sigh
my arms side wants to do it so bad
wat do
oblique garnet
I have shrine +11
lusty grotto
i'm just scared about zul
sick sentinel
LOS him then.
lusty grotto
hmm i seem to remember his spells going through LoS
has been a awhile since i ran it
lusty grotto
lol
sick sentinel
shrug. I just cycle SR, IPs, LS, eternal demo shot on it until dead.
lusty grotto
let me check what's mine
lusty grotto
yea its not me i'm worried about
sick sentinel
can always BL on it. last boss is a joke.
oblique garnet
Btw how did you guys deal with first boss of tol dagor with necrotic?
ember arrow
frost mage
lusty grotto
adds should die fast enough
stacks resets when he buries
or you can jump on his cast
sick sentinel
stack and kill adds. kill boss. move boss as needed for sand traps. spread briefly for upheaval. repeat until boss dead.
oblique garnet
Ye i just was almost never able to reset the stacks and by the time we killed it i had 40~stacks of necrotic on +10
sick sentinel
use shield wall if target upheaval. or call for external.
lusty grotto
@ember arrow
sick sentinel
leap during upheaval during new safe area restart for traps opposite of boss, or during sandstorm cast. stacks should drop.
provided adds killed correctly as described.
ember arrow
@lusty grotto legion memories ๐ฆ
oblique garnet
So its safe to blame my dps for failing to kill the adds fast enough got it
ember arrow
well ye but u shud not be near them
on necrotic
they do minimal dmg
and die fast
sick sentinel
yes. you can also help too. usually shockwave/revenge/tclap enough. but DPS should immediately swap to adds and not tunnel boss. not that it matters, as all of you should be stacked on boss.
oblique garnet
Ye but the sand trap under me kept resetting the necrotic when it spawned
sick sentinel
your job is boss tank, CC some adds stun AOE if none available by group, repoisition boss after adds dead for new clear sand trap area.
move sooner.
supple path
I think I literally just didn't tank the adds on first boss on tol on necrotic last time. Let them chase some dps the whole time.
he was fiiiine
runic python
Hatchet toss :^^)
oblique garnet
Gotta keep that in mind next time its necrotic and were doing tol dagor just let the dps tank the adds
cosmic magnet
Still no new about our possible new mastery ?
stone crag
nope
cosmic magnet
๐ฆ
stone crag
the only "news" that was given through ptr datamining notes is that the changes just got reverted back to old mastery
sand egret
I swear every time I hop back into this channel haha...
mystic trellis
370 Archive+Unstable flames or 355 Brace+Lifespeed? Thinking dungeons mainly
lusty grotto
Archive
higher ilvl
more str
try to get brace in other piece, but really not required
Gridrunner?
nvm gridrunner doesn't have Unstable Flames
mystic trellis
Yeah true thats a good amount of stats
Uh virulent mutagens ?
Could go strength in numbers but I really dislike that one for some reason haha
sand egret
@astral crystal may the ๐ข ๐ต ๐ 's be ever in your favor.
waxen cradle
So guys is there a given consensus or thought on why they took away the mastery icon spell text in one ptr build and added in straight back just worded differently in another yet. I guess they did not like the wording of it so they said lets take the spell text out and reword it ?
astral crystal
Mightโve been a code update
Or the change they want to make isnโt being implemented yet so they put it back in so people could test
Test raids*
Or they scratched the idea of changing our mastery altogether
That seems most likely
waxen cradle
Yeah scrapping changing our mastery is what I am leaning most towards but that does raise the question of are we going to see any meaningful changes in 8.1 if they are already scrapping idea's that fast
hot locust
S K Y I S F A L L I N G
waxen cradle
I am not doom saying just asking because I simply do not know... since PTR can now be tested I was kind of hoping for changes to test rather then waiting yet again
Sure I can just go test alts but I do not get as excited to go test alts as I do my preferred main
vivid hornet
is blockades bis for warrior tanks?
waxen cradle
However sure I can go and test the new content they have added and possibly give them information to help further decide what direction changes should go
I continue to run Blockades... you can as usual check the links in the pins... I still use it as its a lot of stam from the procs and also I have found few survivability trinkets to match it
vivid hornet
alright ill look more into it, thank you!
ember arrow
its currently the best defensive trinket
its worth equipping it for that purpose
otherwise str trinkets are superior
stone crag
what
hot locust
You can use it every other shear with SR and that's all you need to come out taking almost no damage.
Things like LS and blockades are inherently weaker because of reduced HP percentages.
Especially since shear is unblockable.
waxen cradle
How does the Veiled Eye off of Mythrax rank as a trinket... as the absorb is kind of shit. Sure there is still the strength on it but compared to say the blockades trinket or a lower item level Jes Howler ?
hot locust
Don't like veiled eye much
waxen cradle
For example have a 370 Veiled Eye could switch out for a 355 Jes Howler, but the absorb is such shit I am just getting more str
have had shit luck getting a high item level Jes Howler it just won't drop for me
oak pier
Does anyone have any good macros they can recommend for prot warriors?
quaint kiln
#showtooltip
/camp
ember arrow
quaint kiln
Select BrM monk
Login
ember arrow
not really helpful
quaint kiln
Not really unhelpful
What macros are you looking for?
I have a macro from TotGC that shows if you have 100% block.
For anub. Want it?
Or w/e his name is
sick sentinel
Lol
waxen cradle
I more helpful answer would be to check the guide on Icyveins and tell them there are some useful macros there... and that they may have to look around for more specific macros depending on what kind of macro they are looking for
quaint kiln
I see, okay I'll try to be more helpful next time
waxen cradle
But we can always troll them too I mean thats helpful as well... that will teach them to ask people questions ๐
quaint kiln
well here's that unhittable macro:
/run ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable at 102.4%% - you have %.2f%%", GetDodgeChance() + GetBlockChance() + GetParryChance() + 5 + 1/(0.0625 + 0.956/(GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL)/4.91850*0.04))))
sick sentinel
Can't you just have DejaCharacter stats?
quaint kiln
What's the fun in that
If you like playing prot warrior, you like it when things are harder, hit you harder, make your life harder
Class fantasy man
junior ivy
@quaint kiln
sick sentinel
Well it's more like " I will be off tank if those 3 others end up not tanking"
Guess what, I'm the off tank
void sandal
So what's the best way to use Jes Howler? Treat it as an actual emergency cooldown outside of your rotation? Just pop it alongside your other cooldowns whenever it's up to add another layer to your various mitigation buffs?
sick sentinel
Macro it into avatar for big damage