I was going to go with Single Minded Fury during Cataclysm
#protection
uneven mason
frigid blaze
Glad stance would be fucking awesome if they'd reintroduce it properly. Definitely has potential.
Would prefer to not get carpal tunnel, but yeah.
stark sage
it would have to be its own spec instead of a talent for prot
it was too limited as a talent
and it was also terrible for gearing up
but i guess its forced PL now so who cares
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
frigid blaze
Big agree.
ionic ridge
Didn't play wod, what was gladiator stance ?
upbeat folio
Prot DPS stance.
vagrant cape
@frigid blaze so I'm just gonna jot these down as I notice them:
-
Your fight takes 20 second longer so there's just going to be more damage to deal with.
-
You're taking over 20k more per hit on average from rupturing blood and I'm not sure why.
-
Because you take more time to kill in p1, you're taking about 65k extra damage from the corrupted blood debuff.
-
Ok, I think I found something big. Even though you tank zul longer than I do, I use demo shout two more times on him than you do in phase 2. Try to keep uptime on him as high as possible. There's a time between 1:24 and 2:42 where zul has no demo shout on him. I don't know if you were away from zul getting adds or something, but you shouldn't be if you're zerging. But yeah, demo is huge, make sure you hit zul with it on CD. You cannot go 80 seconds without putting demo on zul.
-
Your damage taken per second is enormous compared to mine on p2. I'm trying to figure out why.
-
You got hit by zul melees 5 times without having shield block or last stand up. Admittedly, I took 6, but I still ended up taking ~160k to your ~200k from melee hits. We'll both work on that :P
-
We both mitigated 6 ticks of rupturing blood with IP, but yours should be higher since you fought him longer. Pooling rage is the biggest thing.
-
Oh, I noticed you took a few hits from the crawgs without having SB or last stand up while also taking melees from zul. If you go into phase 2 at an awkward time with adds up, you gotta make sure you have something for that.
that was a lot more than I expected. whoops.
lusty grotto
quite alright
demo uptime is huge for mitigation, that should be enough of a red flag
frigid blaze
No whoops! I appreciate the detailed break down, man.
I'll go check out the replay and see what happened at 1:24 and 2:42
More than likely, I was just not paying enough attention.
vagrant cape
@frigid blaze looking at your casts, you use last stand once in a 3.5-minute fight. You can get this down to a 1-minute CD (less with hero on pull).
You use demo shout a whopping FOUR times in three and a half minutes. YIKES. I used it 7 times on a shorter fight.
haha I never used last stand. whoops XD
You use way more IPs than me, good. I blow a lot of rage on revenge in p1 honestly. Yeah, just checked... I used revenge 26 times to your 9. That's no a problem, though. dps isn't your job (entirely).
You used shield block two more times than me, as expected, good job with the uptime.
Of all the things I've noticed, I'd definitely say work on demo shout uptime
it's super important
signal plover
U have a weak aura for demo shout?
frigid blaze
I remember seeing Demo up and saying "no, save it for P2" but it's totally possible that, by not using it (even when I COULD have) I just ignored it going into P2 by habit?
signal plover
That shit should glow when it's up
lusty grotto
using LS less of an OOPS cd, and for blocking purposes is important
vagrant cape
I have a weak aura that shows me all my CDs and tells me how long demo is up on my current target, but nothing like a screen-wide "HEY ASSHOLE DEMO IS UP!!! airhorn noises "
frigid blaze
For sure, that's why I was trying to figure out WHEN to use LS. Using it while tanking to make use of Bolster vs using it on pools to help with DoT
steel mauve
Demp is huge, pretty much our best trait revolves around it, its free rage, free DR and free dps on a short cd that we can extend, and massively every other cast
wild sandal
should i replace my 340 chest with 370 from uldir, if i do i lose my only DC trait i got
junior ivy
i dunno when to use LS either
frigid blaze
I need to go find shoulders with DC so I can use my 355 helm. ๐ฆ
junior ivy
i juyst use it in oh shit moments
steel mauve
I made a demo weakaura that makes a sound and appears as an icon when demo comes off cd
junior ivy
but i have a lot of oh shit moments
steel mauve
Along woth avatar one as well
lusty grotto
whenever you can't cover with SB and when you are getting melee'd @junior ivy use it to fill SB gaps
junior ivy
i dont use sb enough ๐ฆ
lusty grotto
wtf
steel mauve
Ideally last stand should be used as a rotational cd to cover gaps in shield block
vagrant cape
that's a problem, then @junior ivy
steel mauve
Like 3 blocks then last stand then 3 blocks
grim prism
Cat
grim prism
You should link logs and let people give you specifics
wild sandal
thanks, and no first time i asked, i just got the chest from hc vectis
steel mauve
But obviously there are always circumstances where you need a last stand
steel mauve
Wtf
vagrant cape
To be quite honest, I used shield block in phase 1 of zul with no incoming attacks because I wanted the shield slam dps
grim prism
Uhh search yourself on WCL, or your guild
vagrant cape
and it got me an orange parse so I regret nothing
grim prism
I regrettably dont have time to really dive into logs so im hoping someone else here can tap in
steel mauve
Shield block is out bread and butter, never prioritize ip over it UNLESS you're literally not tanking much of any thing and are facing magic dmg
grim prism
Yes thats pretty good
junior ivy
whoaa
so im good at fetid and vectis
omg i got a 96 onf etid on normal
fetid
i am so good.
grim prism
Its not crazy good, because so few tanks pump damage its pretty easy to parse, but it is very much above average
junior ivy
i am best tank
vagrant cape
@junior ivy 86 and 88 means you did better than 86% and 88% of prot warriors on WCL for those fights, respectively
grim prism
96 is what i would qualify as pretty goddamn good
vagrant cape
I'm pretty goddamn good ๐
junior ivy
๐
well can someone tell me how i can improve
are any of my fights from last night there?
grim prism
Ikar can you peep those logs for me
steel mauve
I mean dps doesnt exactly equal good if your healers are freaking out with dmg taken
junior ivy
i did al lof heroic uldir last night
vagrant cape
once I figure out how to actually look at your detailed logs, sure
frigid blaze
I'm not even sure how much I should weigh parses for tanking, honestly. My understanding is that they're a pretty poor metric for what we're supposed to do?
grim prism
I dont have time with work today :<
dull ibex
is azerite veins really good for prot?
vagrant cape
I'm all for procrastinating this engineering homework
frigid blaze
That's me @ physics problem sets, Byron.
grim prism
@frigid blaze thats correct, but if youre surviving fights you may as well push damage as well
vagrant cape
@dull ibex 
but yes, it's the best one for the middle traits
modern brook
hey guys im responding to very old messages
signal plover
Ikari in here looking for validation ;)
dull ibex
is it worth taking a bloodsport/veins over a brace/adaptive?
steel mauve
You did take a lot of dmg for a 2min fight though for fetid
grim prism
@dull ibex noooooooo way
dull ibex
i have 1 deaf and 2 brace
junior ivy
im bad at ghuun, im bad at living during zul p3, and im bad at mythrax
grim prism
Outers >>> inners
hasty sapphire
never took defensive traits and never had problems
grim prism
@junior ivy i'll try to peep these logs after work and give you some pointers
grim prism
I have an interview in 4 hours so i gotta kinda focus on irl right meow
Just taking a break atm
hasty sapphire
vagrant cape
that must be cheese
vagrant cape
which boss?
hasty sapphire
just normal dps
junior ivy
ty guys
vagrant cape
taloc?
grim prism
Thats German efficiency
grim prism
Ausgezeichnet
steel mauve
I wouldnt say dps parses are a poor metric, but i wouldnt sacrifice much survival for them
Quicker things die the better for the raid group honestly
digital arrow
wisdom
sand egret
Counter-point: they're the best metric for showing off who's the best Bootyclapper.
steel mauve
I wouldnt go around and say you're a great tank with high parses if you are constantly hovering death and your healers would rather replace you
uneven mason
TFW you sacrifice 20% Of your mitigation to do more damage
uneven mason
+++
modern brook
^
vagrant cape
#NotMYgcd
@junior ivy you used shield block SIX times on heroic zul?!?!
what the fuck!?!!
vagrant cape
THAT'S SO MUCH WASTED SHIELD SLAM DPS
digital arrow
doesnt it give u a chance to proc
vagrant cape
YOU DIDN'T USE IT UNTIL 1:40 INTO THE FIGHT WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
silk mortar
@junior ivy More dmg om shield slam
vagrant cape
SHIELD BLOCK INCREASES SHIELD SLAM DAMAGE BY 30%
vagrant cape
AND I'M LOOKING AT ZUL YOU NINCOMPOOP
junior ivy
oh..
well first half of the fight i dont take damage
i am not tanking anything
im just dpsing
vagrant cape
This is absolutely hilarious and entertaining, thank you for posting your logs
junior ivy
in p2 then i take damage
vagrant cape
YOU'RE NOT DPSING WELL IF YOU'RE LOSING 30% SS DAMAGE
junior ivy
๐ฆ
vagrant cape
this is amazing
junior ivy
i cant be that bad if i got AOTC already
i did heroic ghuun twice
and i tanked mythic taloc once
grim prism
Byron coming in pretty hot for someone who seems so unremarkable 
vagrant cape
Hey mate, there's unremarkable
and then there's not using shield slam for a minute and 40 seconds
delicate prism
hot takes
grim prism
Cat is literally the channel mascot
delicate prism
real hot takes in here today
vagrant cape
and also not reading the tooltip of your most important ability
grim prism
Show some respect
modern brook
^
vagrant cape
If anything, I should be overjoyed
junior ivy
so now im wondering lots of things, like, do i die a lot in +11s cause i dont use sb enough maybe?
junior ivy
so sb takes priority over IP always?
steel mauve
How do you main a class and not understand it?
mellow bridge
What do you mean you don't use SB enough
junior ivy
ive mained prot warrior since burning crusade, i wish i knew ironkuting
mellow bridge
You should always have SB running if there's blockable dmg
vagrant cape
if a prot warrior can kill heroic g'huun twice without knowing that shield block buffs shield slam, then there's no reason why a prot warrior should ever get rejected from a group ever again
grim prism
Almost always yeah, IP supplements SB not the other way around
junior ivy
loool byron
modern brook
"maintaining 100 Effective uptime on shieldblock should be your major goal with rage spending"
junior ivy
ok i had this same problem in legion, i used to use ip always and never sb
then you guys set me straight
but when bfa came out
iwent baclk to my old ways
signal plover
It's a much more impactful problem in BFA
steel mauve
Christ, if you use ip and dont have enough rage for another shield block and it falls off for even 1 to 2 seconds you fucked up bad
vagrant cape
Damn, you must have been hit by every single AM-check back when those existed
junior ivy
sb doesnt seem to do much thats why id ont use it
signal plover
Whoever your healers are deserve some medals
vagrant cape
I mean, to be fair, you have like a 40% chance of "using shield block" by default
modern brook
sb is one of the best mitigation tools available for what it affects
like across all tanks
steel mauve
Youve probably got the best healers in the game and i feel sorry for them
grim prism
To be fair, I facetanked AM checks pre-Legion by just cheesing the vengeance mechanic
But thats pre-Legion
chrome lance
So ... walking into this one this morning. Don't come in much. But: Educate, help, stop being dicks; dicks. K thx.
grim prism
^^^^^^
chrome lance
๐ Balsaq
junior ivy
steel mauve
Our best active mit shouldnt need to be educated
grim prism
Preach
steel mauve
Should be understood from the second you walk into a dungeon
chrome lance
Iron. Yes. It should. Would much rather help folk in here then run em off like other toxic ass discords. ๐
junior ivy
dont worry itll take a lot to run me out of here
signal plover
Yo if some random dude came in here bragging bout parses and u guys caught this kind of play u would have fuckin eviscerated him
vagrant cape
I'm still in awe. I apologize for the disrespect, but this has been the highlight of my day so far. Enlightening others is a great feeling.
modern brook
I literally did that ~6 hours ago paw
chrome lance
Hell you been here for 3 years plus now? 2? Yer not going anywhere, says alot just by itself. Tank on. ๐
junior ivy
lolol glad i could entertain you byron
modern brook
I pretended getting 98 on mother is an accomplishment rather than just your guild letting you dps the boss
junior ivy
been here since legion came out yeah lol
modern brook
everyone was very supportive
signal plover
Did u use shield block more than 7 times?
modern brook
IDR tbh
signal plover
I'm gonna go with yes
modern brook
I revenged a lot
signal plover
Makes no difference to me
Ppl literally can't be bothered to take 30 mins to read a well written spec guide
lucid kelp
am I thinking too much into it? Or should I be micromanaging Shield block uptime to the point of...Taking 1 melee attack because I know the boss is gunna do a 2 second cast immediately after and I dont wanna waste 2 seconds of shield block
modern brook
17 times
junior ivy
i ddint gother reading a guide cause i tohught i already knew how to play prot warrior
vagrant cape
"Last Stand increases your maximum health by 30% for 15-seconds, on a 3-minute cooldown. It heals you for that same amount. This heal can critically hit."
the crit heal part... is that real? because that's nuts.
junior ivy
i knew how in legion
signal plover
Yes crit heal is real
junior ivy
i was okay in legion i was 4/11 mythic antorus and i was doing +20s in time
so i tyhought i didnt have to read guides for bfa
vagrant cape
huh. so you basically never want to use last stand on full life or else you waste any crits?
signal plover
Classes change all the time
signal plover
^
vagrant cape
that's fair
modern brook
like if you're using it to heal you're stressing your healers or losing the fight anyways
vagrant cape
does anyone know why we can't block ranged attacks?
signal plover
U can min max it by taking a couple unblocked but depending on content it can be risky
Cuz Blizz is dumb
vagrant cape
excellent
modern brook
cause its a bad game designed by worse people
chrome harbor
i dont think id like to gamble taking that hit for the sake of a heal
signal plover
@lucid kelp I do that on mythic mother every once in awhile but I try to cover that gap with IP
junior ivy
so lemme make sure i know my rotation now. for damage i SS whenevr i can, fill in gaps with TC and revenge (while free especially) and devestate. i try to keep SB up at all times and fill in gaps with IP. i use demo shout when im expecting big damage. i user LS and SW for oh shit moments. i use avatar on CD.
IS THIS RIGHT
please.
modern brook
SB should only be up if you're currently taking blockable damage
junior ivy
but dont i want it for SS damage?
modern brook
not as much as you want to not die
modern brook
If you have 2 charges, pop it for DPS sure
vagrant cape
so I'm sorry if this is in the guide, but I checked and couldn't find it:
Crit blocking. Can it only happen during shield block?
If not, is it:
Roll to block > If block > roll for crit block. If success, crit, if fail, normal block
or
Roll to block > if fail, roll to crit block
or something else?
modern brook
but otherwise you want the charges for when its your turn to take damage
junior ivy
ok wait yeah the charges thing.. if i have 2 chagres of SB i try to uyse both immediately
junior ivy
i dunnooo i just panic and click stuff tbh
modern brook
@bryon sorry you can crit block outside of shield block windows, it uses the first path for checking
junior ivy
you know what, im doing mythic taloc tonight
ill make sure its logged
and ill do better
and ill show you guys
modern brook
dont stack the durations
digital arrow
im rooting for u catfriend!
i mistakenly thought shield block procced more free slams so i fucked up too
junior ivy
thanks
digital arrow
noob zone here
modern brook
being in #protection makes rooting for cat implied, tbh
junior ivy
the best kind of gnome
digital arrow
hey im a gnome too, makes for the funniest tanks
vagrant cape
@junior ivy Your priority seems a bit off. Assuming DC and standard talent setup:
- Avatar and demo shout on CD,
- While demo shout is up, TC is higher priority than shield slam.
- Shield slam > TC > free revenge > not-free revenge (if high on rage and low/no damage intake) > devastate
- Use shield block (Edited) when taking damage and to not overcap rage. Use IP before shield slam if SS would overcap your rage
digital arrow
that sneeze sound everytime u thunderclap is hilarious
modern brook
more like gno.
digital arrow
๐ฌ
junior ivy
- While demo shout is up, TC is higher priority than shield slam. <---- WHAT!!!
vagrant cape
yes
modern brook
That's caveated on having Deafening Crash azerite
dusk locust
because of deafening crash azerite trait
vagrant cape
extending demo shout is hugely important
junior ivy
i have defening crash
vagrant cape
yes
dusk locust
it's the best trait
modern brook
Remember in avatar you clap every other global so you gotta get creative with proc usage to avoid rage capping
vagrant cape
fuck. I sat down at this computer with two hours free to work on homework and all I've done is open it. god damn. I gotta go eat lunch and go to class XD
willow hazel
can we ask about specific encounters in here?
vagrant cape
absolutely
vagrant cape
we just spent an hour analyzing zul logs
willow hazel
Zul, specifically Rupturing Blood
rough jasper
Is there a channel or server for guilds looking for members in the U.S.? (I'm from Europe)
willow hazel
how does the stack drop off work exactly?
vagrant cape
holy moly, if you scroll up there's lots of discussion on it ๐
willow hazel
do stacks drop off individually or all at once?
because if it's individually that makes the swap really awkward no?
vagrant cape
- Tank gets the stacking bleed.
- At 3 stacks, the other tank taunts the boss.
- Tank with bleed stacks goes to the edge of the arena and waits (hopefully popping CDs and getting spot healed)
- When the dot expires, a pool of blood will appear on the ground around the tank. Run out of it asap and make sure no one steps in it.
- The tank who is running back taunts the boss and the 2nd tank repeats the process.
modern brook
@rough jasper check out wow progress - thats what i did when i was guild hunting
vagrant cape
they drop all at once
willow hazel
right ok, so while acquiring stacks it should be impossible to drop blood underneath you right?
I've only got like 3 kills on him and they've all been a mess in p2
in normals that is
vagrant cape
correct. he refreshes the duration with every stack he applies
so you'll never drop the blood stacks while actively tanking unless you get BoPed or you die
alright,I gotta go now, peace y'all!
willow hazel
thanks for the clarification, later
do we know how often he casts it? is it approx 10 seconds?
uneven mason
faster than that ๐
willow hazel
i'll check a replay
willow hazel
yeah i'm looking at logs now
this hurt
thankfully we were able to just nuke him fast enough to handle dead tanks
uneven mason
So to clear things up a bit, don't leave melee range with Zul
until you need to dump the stack right, keep generating rage and keep DS up on him
until you need to run out
This is twofold - 1 You can roll IP to mitigate the damage (its all we ahve) 2, its motivation for your healers to not suck
Because if they let you die
its a wipe
if you're humping their leg
signal plover
You're also guaranteed to be in range of all healers
uneven mason
^^
sinful tree
Hey guys, what is the block rating for? (On shield and Iron Fortress trait)
uneven mason
Leap will get you to a drop point with 2 seconds to go
its like armor
Sorry - its the damage reduction value, uses the same scale as armor
signal plover
Also remember that the stacks on Zul are applied through a frontal cleave so don't be in front of him while staying in
solid mist
oooooof
sinful tree
Does it correlate to block damage reduction % .?
uneven mason
yes
that is exactly what it does
Basically think of it as armor
that only works whne you block
willow hazel
@uneven mason I actually designated a healer to sit on the center line and watch tanks that were dropping blood
sinful tree
Ah, yes, I see the value on the tooltip
willow hazel
but sticking to the boss on the side makes more sense
uneven mason
If I have my HPRiest with us
sinful tree
seems weird though, says I have 5193% block damage reduction
uneven mason
I'll have him do it, but if I don't have the Hpriest I get 2 healers to watch us
junior ivy
I CAN ALREADY TEL LMY DPS IS BETTER
uneven mason
basically its 51.93%
sinful tree
oh, okay
sinful tree
good to know, thanks, thought block was still a flat 30%
signal plover
Is it about 30% better?
upbeat folio
@modern brook wat
signal plover
Ya lol I know
modern brook
All the more reason to always have highest dps
dusk locust
does spell reflect work on a projectile that's already in the air or do you have to use it while the spell is still being cast
blissful imp
Yes
sand egret
yeah, it's before the hit check goes off
dusk locust
hm maybe that'd explain it then. i thought it worked if it's in the air but sometimes doesn't
sand egret
honestly depends on two things which is distance to mob and speed of spell
cosmic oasis
DF is worth 30 ilvl's ya?
cosmic oasis
hmm i see ty
frosty wedge
np
round ice
so whats best azerite traits for m+ tanking?
modern brook
DC
brazen void
everything else really is secondary to deafening crash '-'
round ice
the thunder clap one?
round ice
good to know, i wanna tank M+ but it was brutal when i tried a few weeks ago
frosty wedge
a few weeks ago noone had gear enough to run m+ well, lol
brazen void
the block increasers should be good
signal plover
Start with the guide, build from that
round ice
thanks guys
teal cliff
were there any changes to prot yesterday?
uneven mason
we got our 3% EHP Boost
earnest zinc
Technically yes, but realistically no
teal cliff
is it that buff to vanguard or w/e?
uneven mason
modern brook
hotfixes
teal cliff
checking the pin dad
merry cave
Least I can say I have 200k HP now at 369 lol
mellow bridge
same
uneven mason
I mean
If there was a Warm fuzzy center to the universe called "Warrior Issues" Armor and HP are on the planet farthest from
modern brook
Its hanging out with "Shield block uptime" right
limber rivet
so say i only have enough rage for one, what is more important to use it on. Shield Block or IP? Or does it depend on what im tanking (boss vs trash etc)
sand egret
(assuming you don't already have SB up and this would clip it)
I don't believe so, no
limber rivet
oh ok, phew
sand egret
you can do both, but my point was for stuff you can't block...Shield Block is kinda useless (like big balls of fire)
limber rivet
ya
mellow bridge
SB > IP unless you already have SB or LS (with bolster) running or it's unblockable dmg
modern brook
^ major reason ppl tihnk prot is bad in bfa
lucid kelp
I think the changes put me up to 209k hp...Feeling like a tank now XD
modern brook
SB is better mitigation than ip is now, and you need to understand your damage intake to use it correctly
mellow bridge
man this week m+ feels so much easier than the last
modern brook
Yeah cause bolstering is a fake affix
mellow bridge
Just did a +10 AD and then FH easily without even getting close to dying once
ik those two are easy dungeons but man
compared to raging and necrotic it's so easy
modern brook
We have the kit for dealing with this week really well
mellow bridge
gonna try to push ~+13 on saturday
just kinda spooked of fortified shadow of zul again
modern brook
Fort loses to shield block; bolster loses to nuts aoe; skittish also loses to nuts aoe.
modern brook
I always die on Shadow of Zul and its 100% because dps refuse to soak mechanics
mellow bridge
especially cuz your setup should almost always include a rogue imho
modern brook
or a hunter
limber rivet
all i know was last week was my first time ever tanking somethign with necrotic and i was on my blood dk and it was a miserable experience, i dont think i want to deal with that on a warrior
limber rivet
gasp
modern brook
Its a lot easier when your ability to tank isnt tied to your ability to heal
mellow bridge
get some heavy slows
limber rivet
yeah the only gap opener i had was DnD slow talent
it felt bad
i guess having leap would be pretty nice
modern brook
Howler is p good, if your other trinkets are significnatly (10-15) higher probs isnt worth switching
mellow bridge
Go and show off somewhere else @gray wolf ๐
modern brook
socket makes that range a bit higher
gray wolf
lil
mellow bridge
@limber rivet If you play DK again and it's necrotic
get some good aoe slows in your group
If you can get a monk with ring of peace, it's amazing as well
Or like a boomkin to drop treants
works well as well
limber rivet
mm muh safe space monks
mellow bridge
Man I fkin love boomkins
Treants, Typhoon/Mass roots, Solar Beam, a BR
what else could you wish for
thin mortar
sure wish shaman earth ele worked even half as good as treants
mellow bridge
Still pretty good tho
limber rivet
my elemental shaman version is pretty good
the basic earth ele is poop compared to it
mellow bridge
Oh there's a diff?
sand egret
I got a soft spot for Treats
thin mortar
my normal M+ group is enh/resto sham :feelsbadman:
signal plover
Earthy boi has saved some zek wipes lol
sand egret
when the bois come out, I can take a breather
limber rivet
my mains an ele shaman
sand egret
rarely any*
limber rivet
shamans got dat utility yo
sand egret
purge is so, so underrated
thin mortar
agreed
sand egret
like Soothe is for Guardians, imho
lavish oracle
Feels like every class has 100% more utility than warrior
thin mortar
think I've only seen like 1 bear this xpac. lol
lavish oracle
Except maybe Havoc
mellow bridge
Being a bloodelf is so useful for the aoe purge
sand egret
I play my bear and prot warrior. I'm a rare breed haha
limber rivet
my friend is a DH tank, everytime i would say something about what my DK or Warrior had, hes like "yeah i have that too" ๐
mellow bridge
MC in KR after the first boss, watershields in TD, gilded claws in AD, boneshield in UR, any random buffs
so fkin good
limber rivet
FIRE BLOOOOOOOOOOD
so good
i suppose technicalyl stone form woudl be better for a prot dwarf
but me
meh*
fuck it i had to make a dark iron
sand egret
eh, prob debatable on that one
modern brook
@limber rivet next time you get in that conversation just say you have fun. Checkmate
sand egret
Dark Iron = more str = higher damage = fatter bootyclaps
mellow bridge
and DK is always boring ๐ด
sand egret
it's not even a contest
limber rivet
bootyclaps
hue
yes
this is what i need
all these dorfs clappin
and they aint usin hands
brave jetty
I'm probably jumping into +10s soon enough, I certainly have the gear for it, but have been putting it off because of uncertainty about Infested. Can anyone talk a bit about what most groups do to deal with that? Is it pretty common practice to just pull everything and focus infested/spawn down first, and maybe play it safe with the bigger and more dangerous packs where they could be CC'd instead?
mellow bridge
depends on how big the pack is and the affixes
modern brook
Wowhead has a guide on how to deal with it
its sumarized in what you just said though
brave jetty
Yeah I read through the Wowhead guide and that's what made me curious about how people's experiences usually were on the ground
dusk locust
in general we cc the infested one and pull the rest back, unless the infested one is a low hp mob, in which case we stun the spawns and focus them when they appear
modern brook
its that.
mellow bridge
You either focus it and kill the worms with cc or you CC with something like poly/sap/the monk thing and pull the rest away
brave jetty
A guide can tell you one thing but I want a sense of what most groups tend to do for these in practice
dusk locust
like if it's an infested globule in shrine we just go ham and stun the spawns
mellow bridge
We usually just focus the infested but because of bolstering we CC the infested this week usually
then pull 30 yards
kill group then infested
modern brook
in general or as a prot?
dusk locust
m+ is as hard as you make it because it scales to infinity
limber rivet
por que no los dos
dusk locust
without specifying a level key you have to say m+
modern brook
WE're better in raids rn but thats mostly due to having a really good kit for the problem fights
signal plover
Raiding is hard cuz u have 15 tards instead of 5 tards
modern brook
ie: fetid / zekvos
brave jetty
it might be helpful to address what kind of difficulty you mean
signal plover
Err...20 tards
brave jetty
In terms of just unforgiving numbers, raiding won't be able to compete with the infinite scaling of M+
brave jetty
In terms of mechanics, mythic raiding probably has a higher ceiling
I think M+ has a higher like, sustained level of performance demanded though
Plus the time factor
M+ you're fucking on for like 30+ straight minutes
thin mortar
in terms of effort I would have to give it to M+, raiding as a tank is pretty linear as opposed to M+ having MUCH more things to deal with. expected and unexpected
sand egret
in M+ affixes changes stuff a lot
brave jetty
Even in the hardest raid encounters you don't need to sustain that level of play for that long, continuously, there's like a world of difference in the uh....endurance performance aspect
lavish oracle
A lot more just general knowledge required for M+ too. Pull routes, skips, which mobs should be cc'd, affixes, etc.
thin mortar
lets be honest, raid tanking after like 2-3 weeks of seeing the fight you're on auto-pilot
sand egret
M+ is an individual burden overall, while raiding is more of a coordination burden of the group
merry cave
The other big difference is without luck you cannot hammer a key over and over and get it on point, you might not get say a freehold for weeks if your unlucky. Raids you can do again and again until it's muscle memory
sand egret
there's also FAR less for a tank to do in raids vs a M+
brave jetty
Tank DPS arguably also matters a lot more in M+
thin mortar
weeks is a bit long... should have went with lockouts. most will need the extra time so i'm allotting that
sick sentinel
which one?
merry cave
Like there's been times were we've missed a key by second, If we could of gone again straight away you'd easily time it but you get some other dungeon
mellow bridge
@sick sentinel 370
sick sentinel
with bloodspot right
mellow bridge
Slightly worse first and second trait, but better third trait
and 15ilvl makes up for it
yea
limber rivet
i mjsut flabbergasted that people were doing m15's on like the week or next week after m+ was activated
god that shit blows my mind
i cant get lucky enough with gear drops to even get to an ilvl for that
lol
let alone skill
mellow bridge
"i cant get lucky enough with gear drops to even get to an ilvl for that"
Well they did it with like 345-350
limber rivet
wow
uneven mason
Yeah they're just crazy good
lavish oracle
A lot of them were practicing through beta, to be fair
mellow bridge
Just really good players, with really good comps, who have their cc and kicks on point
limber rivet
i dotn even see how thats physically possible like, mathmateically
mellow bridge
Pre-pot every pull, know their routes already
limber rivet
depending on the affixes
uneven mason
Like, these are teams that practice together
mellow bridge
Know every mechanic
uneven mason
they know the pulls
limber rivet
the tank wouldnt have the HP to just take hits
uneven mason
they know what they're going to do from step 1 till step 1,000
Silly person, you don't get hit in +15
mellow bridge
^
mellow bridge
The only thing that hits you as a tank in a +15 are the bosses
uneven mason
That is why tanks become their utility
mellow bridge
Trash hits you for like 3 secs and then it's kiting baby
uneven mason
and why warriors are lower teir for MDI level pushing
limber rivet
ill ahve to watch a video one of these days
uneven mason
because our utility just isn't on par
limber rivet
how do you keep aggro if you're kiting
mellow bridge
Like if you watch a video now of a +15 the tanks will facetank a lot more
limber rivet
i mean i know warriors
mellow bridge
since they simply can
limber rivet
can clap
mellow bridge
but with lower ilvl they kite
uneven mason
By the time the mobs are dropping off of you
mellow bridge
Most comps have a rogue who can misdirect tbf
mellow bridge
and the tank builds up aggro before kiting
uneven mason
mages can Iceblock etc
mellow bridge
First week wasnt skittish, cant remember second
so aggro isnt an issue
jump in -> build up aggro for 3-5 secs -> kite with heavy cc -> mobs die before losing aggro
sand egret
basically your cds you blow for the first few seconds of the pull are there to give oyu enough of an aggro lead to start kiting
sand egret
does bonus threat
mellow bridge
^
lavish oracle
First week was sanguine/necro iirc
sand egret
something people don't realize
uneven mason
and never having to engage it
sand egret
it "hits" way harder than the number indicates
mellow bridge
Yeah I can't remember if that was first or second week @lavish oracle
but either way no skittish so aggro isnt an issue
sanguine not really relevant when kiting and neither is necrotic
sand egret
I also like to game taunt, personally
uneven mason
Teeming/Fort week I abused the hell out of my heroic throw button
uneven mason
yeah taunt and slap it with some throws
sand egret
yeah
uneven mason
it'll be on you fora while
sand egret
basically leveraging how taunt works to optimize your damage
lavish oracle
I will be very annoyed if they actually remove taunt bonus threat
sand egret
yeah functionally nothing really is changing
lavish oracle
Oh, good, must've missed the blue post
uneven mason
have a target limit put on it
sand egret
just file that under the rest of the grievances towards BDKs
but yeah, Heroic Throw is wonderful and not used nearly enough from what I've seen and Taunt is a button that can be used more than just a "get back here" thing.
thin mortar
I use heroic throw pretty often. pretty handy for getting that little extra threat/dmg in when away from a mob
miss shattering throw sometimes
brave jetty
Heroic Throw is nice for when you don't have MD/Tricks and your DPS all tunnel on different fucking mobs on Skittish week
woeful reef
Remember when it had a silence built into it? Mmmmm
woeful reef
gag order so good
brave jetty
Gag Order should be baseline
woeful reef
gag order + shield slam dispel, great combo
thin mortar
a spammable interrupt would be crazy, lol.. those where the days nimec
tidal fjord
But I'd love something to bring caster mobs closer to the pack
give deathgrip to warriors
brave jetty
every tank should have a tool that can deal with pulling casters back
sand egret
eh
brave jetty
are we the only one that doesn't? druids?
tidal fjord
I don't even think Pallys do
thin mortar
nah, give us the chain the barb has in hots
sand egret
pallies do
uneven mason
Avengers shield
woeful reef
pally has more interrupts than they know what to do with avengers shield procs
uneven mason
is a nearly spammable ranged silence lol
tidal fjord
Ah you're right--I'm still thinking death grip lmao
tidal fjord
But a ranged silence effectively is a death grip (most of the time)
uneven mason
I mean hell we couldn't evne use gag order as a melee range interrupt
thin mortar
just put a min. range 8 on it or w/e
brave jetty
And yeah I mean death grip / ranged silence, something of that sort
thin mortar
ez
tidal fjord
man shield throw is so damn good
brave jetty
though sometimes it's fun to charge, interrupt, and leap or charge back as a sort of ghetto version
woeful reef
Replace Pummel with a literal skilled called gag order that has 20y range ๐ I know I know, one can dream though
woeful reef
Welcome @mystic dust
past ledge
Welcome @mystic dust ๐
woeful reef
I thought this weeks m+ was going to be rough but it's actually been going pretty smooth
lavish oracle
Hi, @mystic dust
thin mortar
yeah, my +10 motherload was cake
brave jetty
Siege was a little bit of a special pain w/bolstering
lavish oracle
Yeah, skittish is a non-affix for us
woeful reef
When you go through the cart, do you go right and around, left? up thje middle? we normally were going up the middle and have lately been going right and around.
brave jetty
i go up the middle/right after cart
mystic dust
is it me or , iam being squishy during raid ๐ฆ
thin mortar
I take my group around the left behind the houses
post a log that you felt squishy @mystic dust
mystic dust
my guild are blaming me for being squishy , and i realy wana imporve but i dont know where to begin
modern brook
@junior ivy I'd replace howler with it but im also super bad at trinket itemization - other people could give a better idea
uneven mason
@mystic dust Where is your Defening Crash trait?
#1 Priority is to get one
and master Demo Shout uptime
lavish oracle
I mean survivability-wise, the vanquished Tendril is close to useless
Not sure how good it is for damage
modern brook
I'm willing to bet its worth an at most 2% survivability loss
uneven mason
@mystic dust Your shield block uptime is abysmal, this is top priority while tanking.
You shouldn't be tanking a boss without some sort of block up
You didn't cast Last Stand a single time
You use Last stand with Bolster to cover caps in your shield block uptime
verbal needle
๐
mystic dust
i gota admit , i was defring all def stuff , only on incuming bad hit from boss
thin mortar
It looks like your not shield blocking/ignoring pain nearly enough... make sure to use your demo shouts often, especially if you arnt saving for a tank mech. Ikarikaze is on the case. i'll leave it with him
modern brook
@mystic dust are you guys lusting in 2nd room?
uneven mason
my shield block use on mother https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3r8xhDaA4HMqcdyL#fight=3&source=1&type=auras&ability=132404
chrome falcon
@junior ivy tendril is dogshit, vendor it
modern brook
nvm didnt have defense grids up
mystic dust
yeh ๐ my guild thinks its better
uneven mason
Like, you didn't even cast ignore pain until later
Warriors are all about keeping our mitigations up 100% of the time
we have literally 100% uptime on some sort of mitigation
Start with the guide in the pins
read it 3 or 4 times
๐
thin mortar
you're spec'd into booming voice and not using the shout for your rage/dr... if you find yourself struggling I would try out devastator until you get more comfortable with your abilities.
uneven mason
Prot is godtier mitigation
mystic dust
thxs all for the feedback , but can we keep all 100
%
uneven mason
Yes
stark wraith
Yes
uneven mason
you're always going to have some sort of mitigation up
chrome falcon
@mystic dust There's a weakaura in the pins that will tell you if you have shield block or last stand up. Import that weakaura and work on having 100% uptime on shield block or last stand. If you are ever without shield block or last stand you need to use a bunch of ignore pain, shield wall, or call for an external
modern brook
You can keep SOMETHING up 100% of the time
sick sentinel
modern brook
but you cant keep EVERYTHING up 100% of the time
stark wraith
Always have at minimum at least demo, block or ip up
sick sentinel
So weapons CAN tf?
chrome falcon
they can from the weekly chest
uneven mason
Chests always say TF
stark wraith
You should never have nothing on you
chrome falcon
@mystic dust Also, use demoralising shout on cool
modern brook
mystic dust
iam , gona read it , i will post if i need more clarification
i cannot thank you enugh for you kind help
i apreciate the feedback guys ๐
modern brook
:kind:
errant dagger
i kinda hope with 8.1 that we can use the allied races freely
modern brook
bronze path
read the faq
thorn yarrow
@modern brook no wai
uneven mason
100% critical block can confirm
thorn yarrow
oof
uneven mason
mostly magic and dots
thorn yarrow
nah cause IP will be so massive it just doubles down
stark wraith
Magic and dots and ranged "shoots"
stark wraith
Shoots are not blockable remember
sick sentinel
HAHA UR DEAD CUS NO HASTE
uneven mason
I saw that and was like "shouldn't be so Ba...WTFHAPPENED TOMYARM"
uneven mason
To quote one of the greatest sports announcers in video game history "You go slow, you die"
echo egret
just jumping on the Shield Block uptime remarks... are you guys saying we can keep either shield block or last stand up 100% of the time ?
sick sentinel
mostly
stark wraith
Not exactly
Our three mitigations are ip demo and block
Always have one of those up
echo egret
ok, that part I'm ok with
modern brook
If you're taking blockable damage and are not able to put out a SB charge or LS and you're before the 5 minute mark of the fight
stark wraith
I am including bolster last stand with block
modern brook
you fucked up some where
sick sentinel
you can SB 3 times, the last stand, then SB 3 times
sand egret
well it feeds into itself a bit
due to AM
and your avatar/clap window
which you're also doing
so Last stand is up that much faster > more time to recharge SB charges, etv.
etc*
merry cave
If you lust at pull I guess you can hold off using LS for a bit but it still won't get you close to 5 mins
uneven mason
@echo egret Not quite 100%, we said SOME sort of mitigation (shield wall, IP DS all count in this)
also the MAJORITY of bosses
have "pauses"
where they're not hitting you
modern brook
And swaps
sand egret
this
uneven mason
dont press SB
echo egret
aye of course
modern brook
and if you're face tanking a 5 minute trash pull
uneven mason
Infact literally every boss has gaps where you're not getting punched in the face
modern brook
you fucked up
sand egret
a HUGE point of playing Warrior is knowing when you don't _have _ to hit SB
uneven mason
^^
merry cave
Or just don't use SB and blame healers ๐
uneven mason
Know your gaps
sand egret
when you're at a point where you're shaming yourself for casting SB right before a predictable cast, you're in a good spot
stark wraith
Or when you waste uptime by sb before the hit connects
uneven mason
you mean like that Crataz guy?
who did 99th on every fight because he just spams Revenge
and mitigates 20% Less damage than he should
+++
zinc mauve
Timing a block just before an attack hits gets more mileage too
uneven mason
@stark wraith that isn't quite how it works, SB will always cover 3 swings more or less
modern brook
I was just typing that :/
uneven mason
Oh yeah nothing like that (so far)
sand egret
this is a product of normalized swing timers? or does it actually have a buffer window for hits?
uneven mason
TFW you used to block gods and eat hits that would kill a planet (200m+) now you have to rip nosehairs out to just get enough rage for a block
normalizing swing timers more or less
stark wraith
Yeah I remember getting so mad when he'd delay a scythe for the aoe
sand egret
kk, thought so
echo egret
I didn't think prot warrior design could be worse than NF, but indeed BFA makes it shine
zinc mauve
Pls no revenge is my only rage dump during avatar
stark wraith
Yeah but it didn't cost rage iirc so bumped us faaaar ahead in aoe
hot locust
I liked NF, it had a couple flaws but was a great ability when needed and that's all I wanted out of it.
zinc mauve
I don't want more procs
hot locust
Really wishing we had NF now tbh
modern brook
i just wanted nf to be moveable
novel comet
^
thin mortar
drawing a blank on NF
zinc mauve
What's nf? I didn't play in legion
hot locust
I didnt mind that part as much as knockbacks and stuff fucking you.
novel comet
Was such an awkward ability
hot locust
I was fine with not moving as long as it wouldnt just get cancelled by anything that sneezes.
stark wraith
Artifact ability that channels dmg while auto critical blocking
modern brook
NF = neltharion's fury = artifact ability gave 100% crit blocks and channeled damage
thin mortar
ah, I get it now... yeah. I think the ability was underrated myself
modern brook
moving or knock backs canceled the affect
sand egret
it'd fit in nicely now, imho
modern brook
idk I dont miss it
echo egret
and strangely every mob and his mother had a knockback in Legion
novel comet
Lot of low movement shit right now so Iโd welcome it
modern brook
as far as artifact buttons go it was really lack luster
sand egret
with the right CD, it could hypothetically free up the need for Bolster
stark wraith
And didn't cost any rage so basically a god like ability if it was in bfa
thin mortar
i wouldn't go that far. bolster is crazy good
modern brook
^
sand egret
well purely for the gap-closing part
modern brook
bolster and AM are the two biggest problems with Warrior rn
sand egret
LStand cooldown aside
rustic fractal
Is Impassive Visage better over Resounding Protection ?
sand egret
if we had actual competitive talents in that tier, it could happen
but yeah Bolster is too fucking strong right now
modern brook
Our current kit relies too heavily on Bolster's doubled cooldown effect and CDR from am
thin mortar
what, you don't take adomitable for that HP?!? ๐
sand egret
yeah but that is to cover the need of not 100% SB uptime
the idea would be that NF with the right cooldown could cover that gap
modern brook
for a talent to replace either it needs to be as good as 2 cooldowns at once or an additional cast of 2 different cooldowns
sand egret
you'd still have it as a sizeable CD (assuming you took another, legitimate option) but wouldn't need it to cover the SB downtime
modern brook
And thats ignoring AM's affect on Demo shout and avatar
sand egret
yeah, but that's constant
void sandal
It seems like we're pretty good M+ tanks this week, yeah? We have even aoe dmg to bring down trash all at once, avatar negates skittish every other pull, and we don't have to worry about getting one shot by boss mechanics since it's not tyrannical
modern brook
Yes; this weeks m+ is ezpz
sand egret
what is this week again?
modern brook
Bolster Skittish fort
sand egret
ooo that's ez
sand egret
literally built for Prot
"so...we need to make sure these all die at the same time.....and we need a lot of AoE dps"
Prot War intensifies
modern brook
claps in big and grey
sand egret
๐ป ๐ต ๐
delicate prism
Honestly I just want WOTLK warrior back.
chrome steppe
I want MoP Fury back...
thin mortar
bring back single minded fury... TF is dumb. #classicfury
stark wraith
But why stop there!? Let's get back glad stance and assert dominance on literally the entire game!
thin mortar
glad stance was hella fun
sand egret
game needs more time for the raid to observe me Sundering
screw throwing in some extra spells on the GCD, I want 39 other people to literally do nothing while they watch me Sunder. ๐
lavish oracle
If I'm not having survivability issues this week in M+, is it worth swapping a Syringe in instead of Blockades?
Follow-up question: are there any better AoE damage trinkets for prot?
ancient reef
is vers better than haste
lavish oracle
Haste is better in all situations
void sandal
I think our baseline aoe is good enough that stat trinkets like syringe will surpass any aoe dmg proc/use trinkets.
ancient reef
i thought so , this pawn addon is telling me haste is worht .71 vs vers at 1.11
weak zephyr
"Honestly I just want WOTLK warrior back." Everyone does.
lavish oracle
I don't exactly miss tab-cycling devestate on every mob but I do miss stance dancing
ancient reef
man i saw a prot tank pulling 20k dps today in a lfr
weak zephyr
stance dancing, jfc
ancient reef
top everyone
weak zephyr
I haven't heard that in some time.
ancient reef
i think it would be hella coola if we had an arms stance
weak zephyr
would be cool if stances existed at all, I mean. Rose-tinted glasses? probably yeah.
fair drift
Hello guys, i got a question! When I use shield block, can I critically block attacks?
lavish oracle
Yes
fair drift
But i just saw the new build for 8.1
lavish oracle
Oh, yeah, they're potentially changing our mastery for 8.1, we don't know yet
As for now, it's still a thing
astral crystal
fair drift
would be great
lavish oracle
Do you have a link, Atticusw?
fair drift
i would be extremly happy if they remove the GCD changes for ignore pain and demo shout
candid cove
Hasn't it reset taunt for the longest time?
sick sentinel
yeah it did