I just dont even use ip and go with revenge when i havd a pally with me amd stuns
#protection
dark junco
chrome falcon
except it's off the GCD and doesn't cost rage
lusty grotto
right because its AM + damage in one
dark junco
Was so mad this week: saw a dk tanking by standing still. Ffs lol
chrome falcon
yeah BDK is just straight up retarded
silk mortar
Rly?
signal rune
can you still get hidden artifact since you cant get AK lvl 5 anymore?
amber siren
yeah you can
rain otter
Just gotta check that cave evry day
signal plover
Baits
amber siren
there's a macro you can run instead of manually checking it
uneven mason
Hiddens are 100% droprate/spawn rate last I checked
or at least was for a long while during prepatch and after the Xpac launched
dark junco
If only we’d have sonething to parry more, that help
rain otter
I don’t usually tank on warrior, but guild needed one last night for a 9 key, necrotic is pain
dark junco
Like a talent.
uneven mason
Necrotic hurts every tank...
dark junco
/s
teal aurora
DKs and Monks have it way easier than Warriors though
signal rune
i know about that macro but you need to actually be in the cave right?
rain otter
Had to tank a boss without heals cause healer dced during fight, and the lack of sustain really showed
lusty grotto
it has changed quite a bit from when some of us did it
but there were 2 hidden quests
if both were true you could get it
iirc
lusty grotto
i believe one of the quests you did need to go into the cave, just at the entrance is fine
or just listen to the roar sign
sick sentinel
When you IP->DS->IP, you just shout 3 times
chrome falcon
Yeah
mellow bridge
the true class fantasy
limber perch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LGTEI1RMoQ prot warrior
amber siren
i'd pay money for a wa that plays that when i ds
rich robin
lusty grotto
there are 2 checks @signal rune
rich robin
Only because of the video above
chilly brook
I see the daily complaints have been happening already
lusty grotto
also AK used to need to be above 5, but i'm not sure if that's still check @signal rune
probably not
since AK was removed at the end of Legion
lusty grotto
try this one
oh
right
well both need to be true
44311 is the one you want, since i think 44312 will always be true if you meet the requirements (AK5 was it iirc)
signal rune
Ahh ok thx
lusty grotto
and you do need to enter the cave
enter cave, if you see no emote or sound then run /run print(IsQuestFlaggedCompleted(44311))
just to make sure
then repeat everyday until you get it
if true or you get emote/sound then look for the item in the piles
weak zephyr
@rain otter you don't need sustain, it's part of the class fantasy 👌
signal rune
Yeah i thought maybe they upped it too 100% chance
chilly brook
Tbf we really don’t
lusty grotto
make sure you're prot spec or you won't find it when its true/roar/emoted
signal rune
No dice
chilly brook
Everyone talks about BrM and they don’t really have sustain
Unless you want to count the orbs which are insignificant 95% of the time to say the least
umbral raptor
Can anyone help me compare trinkets?
grim prism
OHSHIT
vagrant cape
don't ask to ask, just ask
umbral raptor
lol sorry
vagrant cape
(but also check pins first for the trinket guide to see if it's covered, but I'm assuming you did that)
lusty grotto
yes 
first
umbral raptor
Equipped: DD:Blockades, Ritual Bandages ilvl 360. And I just got ilvl 365 Gore-Crusted Butcher's Block with Leech and Socket.
vagrant cape
Gore + blockades
lusty grotto
weary python
swapping some gear out for the first time in a while. How is Champion of Azeroth as a trait rated? Is it at all?
I don't see it on IV/ Wowhead guides
chilly brook
It’s ok but not worth for prot
wild bolt
Yeah the wrappings were one of the first trinks I got too. I'd also recommend Blockades and Gore (I run Gore in my lower key set for some extra dmg) and keep farming a Rezan's.
rich robin
Thank RNG I was able to bonus roll the DC shoulders off of the world boss just now.
chilly brook
What is your prot option
vagrant cape
it's decent for arms last I checked
wild bolt
Grats Franklin!
vagrant cape
I think it could also be good if you have a lot of str-based dpses with you
weary python
It's Iron Fortress. I downgraded my 385 helm with deafening crashed to 370 shoulders with them. So that I can use my 385 helm for Lord of War in Arms.
visual drift
with this minor changes nothing changed or?
Im a noob at tanking since they add IP (legion same).
Will there be a chance prot warrior will be easier or in other words more than in BC/Cata/Mop?
chilly brook
IF is a better option
rich robin
thanks Tutonka!
weary python
okay
lusty grotto
no to all questions @visual drift
weak zephyr
It's not really a minor change, and what do you mean by easier? @visual drift
chilly brook
I doubt prot will get any easier if they keep our AM the way it is
They’ll probably make it “better” but not “easier”
chilly brook
And to be honest I’m ok with it not being “easy” because every other tank is
lusty grotto
agreed
wild bolt
Yeah same, it's fun to play
weak zephyr
Prot warrior is easy, it's just that you put in more effort for minimal returns as a prot warrior, in comparison to the other classes. I don't see how difficult prot warrior can be.
wild bolt
It would be decidedly more fun if I didn't have to break my rotation for IP as frequently, but that's really my only gameplay gripe
signal plover
If we're being honest the only thing I RLY want changed is IP to be off GCD. Idc if demo or avatar stay on it...just take IP off.
lusty grotto
and btw yes it is a minor change @weak zephyr
tawny lantern
i donk know, for me its still horrible, as long as i have to use my 340 shoulders because i cant get anything better with DC
chilly brook
You’d have more gameplay impact if Avatar or Demo Shout was off gcd
weak zephyr
Eh... In comparison to what blizzard would realistically give us, it's not minor. The big meme is to take IP off the GCD, but their stance is pretty firm on that so, relative to what they don't give us, it's not that minor 🤷
vagrant cape
BONUS ROLLED THE SHOULDERS BABYYYYYYYYYYYYY
sand egret
siiiick
lusty grotto
it's minor
sand egret
grats BOIII
lusty grotto
being given nothing is no basis to say this is something other than a minor tweak
weak zephyr
Beggars can't be choosers lul
chilly brook
@weak zephyr whether or not you find it easy is kinda irrelevant the vast majority clearly finds the skill floor too high as demonstrated by WCL
lusty grotto
to be fair
weak zephyr
Yeah.
sand egret
I think there's a more nuanced distinction to be made in respect to how punishing it is if we don't play optimally in comparison
chilly brook
As odd as it sounds most don’t understand how to use shield block and their other CD’s
sand egret
a lot of us are fine with that too, tbh. Just requires a bit more focus on the player
weak zephyr
All I really think is true is that prot warriors have a minimal return on how good you play it. I'm forced to play prot to the best or I'll be letting down my entire team. In comparison to a blood dk for example... Lmao
chilly brook
I do personally
sand egret
do you want a class that pushes you?
weak zephyr
No
chilly brook
^
sand egret
that's why other tanks exist
sand egret
to give playstyle options
weak zephyr
I've been trying blood dk lately.
sand egret
but that doesn't mean Prot has to change, ya feel me?
lusty grotto
SB management has been a problem since forever, Legion just made it easier because plebs would just spam big dick IPs and nothing would happen... but when you had to block for sure, most people failed (felclaws and other for example)
weak zephyr
I feel like I'm being rewarded for actually playing
vagrant cape
does gemhide (inner ring trait) stack? not for multiple traits, but for multiple hits within 10 seconds
lusty grotto
i'm still called Shearchip for a reason in my guild
if you missed SBs on illidan's shears you were pretty much dead in TBC
sand egret
haha yeah
tawny lantern
i rerrolled to a dk 2 weeks ago, everything goes so smoth, i try to finish a +9 with my warrior yesterday just to keep it up to date... it was a pain
lusty grotto
now that IP sucks mayor dick... suddenly everyone fails
strong forum
@vagrant cape not it cant stack as in multiple buffs, it'll only refresh duration
weak zephyr
Welcome to the club my guy
sand egret
I just want IP to be a function of rage instead of a discrete action
thereby giving revenge (and also revenge procs) significance
lusty grotto
it should be a reactionary thing
tawny lantern
i find it hard to do the warrior rotation while progressing in Mythic raid, so i just rerrolled
i guess if u are good u can still make warriors work
sand egret
also had a fun showerthought today
lusty grotto
but?
strong forum
I enjoy warri being hard but fun
sick sentinel
sand egret
here me out....WHAT IF:
lusty grotto
mythic raid rotation? what?
sick sentinel
ya, ok Blizz...
lusty grotto
warries lol @strong forum
strong forum
What do you mean nimchip
tawny lantern
@strong forum i like the challenge too but i dont like dying... and specially i dont like the desing of a class that MUST have a trait that doesnt even drop in raids
lusty grotto
nothing just reminded me of the warrie meme
sand egret
WHAT IF:
Warriors got the opposite of Stagger?
chilly brook
Exactly what is the opposite of stagger
sand egret
(just snowballin' here)
strong forum
Yeah that I agree with, DC not dropping in raid is cancerous
lusty grotto
that's highly unlikely
sick sentinel
That would not work
grim prism
That would be the inverse of stagger, not the opposite 
chilly brook
^
sand egret
i ain't done yet!
mellow bridge
sounds broken 🤔
grim prism
The opposite would just be taking a fuckload of damage, which we can already have
Ayyyy
sick sentinel
LOL
sand egret
well the function would be you'd take a HoT for the damage mitigated via the IP shield
so if you ignore 50% into IP, take 50% and then heal taht 50% over 8 seconds.
as this aggregates
we get an increasingly higher HoT as our damage intake increases
sick sentinel
Oh I found what will fix prot warriors for good
strong forum
Das op
sick sentinel
Make ravager baseline
sand egret
tuning numbers aside, as a caveat
grim prism
That sounds fun on paper
sand egret
conceptually it's similar to Frenzied Regen of old
grim prism
Thats all i have to say about that
sand egret
and seems fun and in-line with Ignore Pain
sick sentinel
Think about it, parried attacks don't give necrotic, you can parry tank busters and shit like mythraxx's tank swap etc
Ok sorry I will stop
sand egret
% based chanced mitigation 😢
sand egret
I'm just a random swing in this scenario!
grim prism
Better have a WA for that
coral marsh
do you think the buffs do anything?
stray wedge
Some 'tank buster' mechanics have been parryable
grim prism
They do a little bit
stray wedge
No particularly relevant ones over the last few expansions though
grim prism
They arent majorly significant but they do add what, 1% to your DR
stray wedge
I mean if, let's say, a boss did 20 small attacks over a short period, and they were parryable
grim prism
It's a precursor to other buffs that hopefully will arrive in 8.1
wild sandal
i have the blockade trinket, and 365 jes howelr, and just got 365 razan? should i swap it with jes, or keep the previous two?
stray wedge
then i would consider a large % bonus to parry chance legitimate for that boss
but obviously they're ordinarily 1 big hit
not 20 small hits
sick sentinel
having 206k hp HP is neat.
stray wedge
so you don't parry, you die = it didn't really help
lusty grotto
Use jes for defensive purposes, rezan for everything else @wild sandal
chilly brook
You know what would actually be a nice addition to prot warrior? MoP Second Wind
wild sandal
thanks @lusty grotto
sick sentinel
I would go rezan and jes
wild bolt
If it's a fight with a lot of spell damage, Blockads & Jes should pull ahead. Otherwise I like Blockades/Rezan's. Rez/Jes would be amazing if you're not in a situation where you're probably going to die
sick sentinel
Jes=more DR and bigger IPs
limber perch
hit em with that rezzle jezzle ™
sick sentinel
And rezan =more rage regen and more rage spend, faster CDs due to AM
lusty grotto
bigger IPs 🐎
grim prism
random procs for defensivs trinks
lusty grotto
lol
fierce juniper
Haste as a proc is much better than other stats as a Proc because it's still cooling down your SBlock, regardless of whether or not you're tanking.
sick sentinel
If it was a vers proc or some shit I would be more against it, but its haste
grim prism
Marok and Macro both posting unprompted on the same day? What's the occasion
Am I about to get banned again
wild bolt
lol
lusty grotto
rip
sick sentinel
With rezan and 5 stacks ITF (and I think reorigination ray, not sure if it is needed) SB has 12 sec recharge and it is 👌 😩
lusty grotto
what's the math behind jes vs blockades though and in what situation
stoic kite
R we stronk now with new buffs
lusty grotto
so lets say defensively
stray wedge
well at the same item level they have the same strength right?
so you're looking at versatility on use, compared to what is on average a flat stamina buff
fossil glade
im trying to find it but maybe im blind, but for prot, what azerite traits should i be shooting for, thanks in advance
grim prism
@stoic kite very slightly stronker, about the same overall
stray wedge
given that we're talking about an on-use vers trinket, the EHP is the relevant effect from the versatility; the fact that you do or don't need to be healed up after isn't particularly relevant
grim prism
@fossil glade its in the pinned IV guide under azerite, TLDR you want one deafening crash and two BFI
stray wedge
so how much ehp do you get from the jes' howler on use? how much ehp do you get from the blockades effect on average?
blockades gives an average of 328 stamina
do you know the stamina to hp conversion off the top of your head for warriors @fierce juniper? is it 1:20?
fierce juniper
yes
stray wedge
ok so you get ~6.5k hp on average (just from the stamina)
sick sentinel
I think there are EHP weak auras
stray wedge
There are - a new one is coming out soon :P
sick sentinel
Nice !
daring marlin
Rejoice, my fellow prot brothers. You can wear a 355 DC piece this week if you're still rocking a 340!
...if you pvp.
:^)
stray wedge
so how much vers do you get from a 355 jes' howler
fossil glade
@grim prism BFI? and is bloodsport any good?
sick sentinel
Jes howler you have to calculate with hitting 0, 1,2,3 and 4 other people, right?
stray wedge
yes
lusty grotto
1326 vers?
grim prism
Brace for Impact; its our best-scaling defensive trait. Bloodsport is okay for pure magic damage but rapidly falls behind other traits in most situations
sick sentinel
If you want to be accurate
lusty grotto
roughtly
lusty grotto
no
stray wedge
or was that split with 5 people and a total for everyone put together?
lusty grotto
hold on
fierce juniper
That's not right. My 370 is 1100 vers unsplit.
sick sentinel
I remember my 345 giving me 690 when split with 4 people
stray wedge
humblebrag "i have a 370 jes howler" marok
fierce juniper
:^)
lusty grotto
715ish
stray wedge
715 unsplit or what
stray wedge
hmm
sick sentinel
Guys
stray wedge
ok anyway
sick sentinel
Just get in game
stray wedge
just to illustrate the point
vocal nimbus
my 370 is 1100 vers too ¯_(ツ)_/¯
stray wedge
let's say you get 850 vers from the trinket
Lol
that's 5% DR from vers
let's assume you are going from 0 vers to 850, it makes the calculation easier
5% dr is a ~5.3% ehp increase
so what gives you more ehp? adding 6.5k, or adding 5.3%?
adding 5.3% should be quite a bit more - probably between 1.8 to 2.2 times as much
sick sentinel
But... bigger IPs!
stray wedge
but obviously jes' howler is a cd and is only up for a short period
whereas blockades' stamina effect is always up (at varying degree of strengths)
lusty grotto
my math is all wrong lol sorry 814 / 5 = 162.8 split. So 162.8 + 128 * N people motivated = total versa gained?
sick sentinel
I will be honest, I feel flimsier when I replaced my blockades with dooms fury 375
lusty grotto
ok i see
sick sentinel
So macro, excuse me if I read this wrong but if we are talking pure survivability blockades comes through
And we did not calculate the fact that it heals you as well
wild bolt
It is subject to diminishing returns, yes
stray wedge
well
wild bolt
More rating needed for subsequent %
stray wedge
that is a very complicated question
no, that is incorrect @wild bolt
that does not apply to vers
wild bolt
It's not? I thought everything was...
stray wedge
@crystal spire did you publish that article yet
crystal spire
no
vocal nimbus
Vers doesnt have DR
stray wedge
is it ready
wild bolt
Oooo
stray wedge
well
faide has written a very comprehensive and excellent article about how diminishing returns works
to be released soon^tm
vocal nimbus
isnt DR just a curve?
raven kernel
MORE TING LESS EFFEK
raven kernel
alot of confusion is due to absolute vs relative gain
lusty grotto
motivation on jes effect caps at 5?
stray wedge
5 including yourself yes
lusty grotto
hmm
junior igloo
Assuming 0 starting vers is a very very small difference from reality
Blockades is better for pure defense (Veiled Eye and Bandages are equal to Blockades at around 380 item level for general use).
sick sentinel
A lot of my shit is haste/vers tbh
junior igloo
Those 3 trinkets are solidly above any other when taking purely defense into account
acoustic ocean
Hey, I've been seeing more people go with mastery gems/enchants over haste , is there any benefit to this at all?
junior igloo
I don't mean that we are very close to 0 versa.
What I meant is that with 5-10 % starting vers the result in terms of damage mitigated will be almost the same
sick sentinel
Oh ok, makes sense
junior igloo
📌
pastel sleet
tyty
sick sentinel
I got it immediately, so I heavily underestimate its power
sick sentinel
Do absorbed attacks give you necrotic? Or the only way to not get stacks are parries and dodges?
stray wedge
Necrotic? Yes they do
sick sentinel
So every time I reset necrotic on a boss is by parrying/dodging 3 times in a row
primal crypt
Basically
solid mist
parry you say? 
necrotic mvp?
solid mist
😛
earnest zinc
You are a RETARD if you don't pick AM
They seriously need to make it baseline and put the artifact ability in it's place on the row
sick sentinel
EU boy here, how much more/noticeable was the stamina when you logged in to the buffs?
prisma night
I dont think they are in yet
The hotfix notes in the launcher doesnt have them anyway
sick sentinel
They said October 2nd
earnest zinc
They are in for me
sick sentinel
they're in.
earnest zinc
I got like 8k more health
earnest zinc
Also around 2 to 3% less physical damage taken
prisma night
2% is even an overstatment
earnest zinc
Meanwhile Brew has effectively 500k
pallid axle
good geared dh r around 260k
earnest zinc
DH need it since they take more physical damage
steel mauve
They also take a metric fuck ton more dmg too
prisma night
We have a quite a bit of ehp too since we you know, actually mitigate dmg. Comparing a brew ehp to prot warrior flat hp is just useless
orchid plover
500k? wut? really?
earnest zinc
stagger is BROKEN
earnest zinc
It can work too well at timees
earnest zinc
You can't have a boss with a physical damage single hit as the gear check for tanks
snow osprey
hey guys... sudden realization and probably a stupid question.
I have a 360+ gear, but my shield is 340 one.
Looking at the shield I come to realize it has a shitload of armor, and the only source of the block stat.
Correct me if I am wrong.. having a good shield is the most important piece for prot nowadays?
earnest zinc
Brews can just ignore it
sick sentinel
yes. shield is absolute.
earnest zinc
It is
steel mauve
Yes the shield is your most important piece
The better the shield the more dmg your block mitigates
earnest zinc
They really need to remove block from shields and make it based on the armor from items
sick sentinel
shield determines your God status or pleb status as a prot warrior.
snow osprey
gotcha. currently I'm a crap status
sick sentinel
I would rather have a big shield and shitty gear than having a shit shield and good gear
armor doesn't block though.
😛
snow osprey
it also explains why everything is so painful even though I have decent gear (except shield)
earnest zinc
Make your block based on your armor instead of your shield ilvl
steel mauve
I mean a 340 shield isnt terrible and can get you through mythic raiding to an extent
marble pelican
so whats this weeks quest? 4 mythics? and what is the world boss?
snow osprey
thanks for the confirmation guys, you're the best. cya
earnest zinc
You would get block from the armor on your gear. It would be unchanged if your armor and shield are the same ilvl
solid mist
just spam AD and pray ;P
sick sentinel
10 arena skirmishes weekly.
solid mist
you'll eventually get a shield
sick sentinel
for a steel box and AP
marble pelican
yuck
prisma night
Gross
sick sentinel
Easy and fast tbh
steel mauve
Too be fair though it makes a lot more sense to have a block rating on a shield than for overall armor
earnest zinc
Yes, but it makes you WAY too dependent on a shield
prisma night
Cuz other classes arent dependant on weapons right?
prisma night
Wut
pallid axle
tbh just increase the healing done on fury for like 400% new warrior tank
sick sentinel
They are all based on attack power
grim prism
^
sick sentinel
world boss this week has 355 DC shoulders.
orchid plover
dual two handed weapon tank? where do i sign?
orchid plover
i think u mean Legion warlock
pallid axle
duealwield shield tank with gladiatior stance!
pallid axle
i still dont ahve an DC trait even though im trying to farm it in normal mythics... but rng is a bitch
earnest zinc
Caches can also drop it
sick sentinel
I use a combination of mostly 340 pieces, 355, and 370 azerites between my uldir gear, DC mythic gear, and arms/pvp gear.
earnest zinc
My DC shoulders from that are 340 while my chest is 355 and my helm is 370
sick sentinel
Horde warfront will open like really soon right?
stoic kite
Does Deafening Crash stack?
sick sentinel
Only the damage @stoic kite
steel mauve
Thought it was open on NA
sick sentinel
Sorry, EU boy here, we get everything 16 hours late
marble pelican
so here is a question for you guys, i'm gong to level a character from 20-120...any tips lol...I haven't done this in so long
stoic kite
There's no brace for impact helm in mythics? 😐
steel mauve
Warfront opening just kind of depends on your faction
sick sentinel
@stoic kite Icy veins has a very handy search tool to see what azerite power drops from where for what slot etc
sick sentinel
Dark iron/ mag har?
stoic kite
My 370 Archive of Titans chest is better than my 340 brace for impact one right?
sick sentinel
Y E S
marble pelican
@mellow bridge any lvl add on you recommend, sorry its been a long long time
stoic kite
Okay I just need to find a new brace for impact shoulders from motherload I guess. Currently have x2 Defaning Crash
sick sentinel
Correct me if I'm wrong but a 370 archive is better than 355 brace, even outside uldir
stoic kite
375 Crit/Mastery > 355 Haste/Master? Just got a 375 from chest
sick sentinel
I'm 370 and not 200k hp yet :/
wintry ermine
Why are you looking at total HP instead of EHP?
sick sentinel
Also, at the same ilvl iron fortress is roughly as good as brace
stoic kite
idk what EHP is
wintry ermine
effective
sick sentinel
Effective hp
stoic kite
how do I find that
wintry ermine
we have more mitigation for physical attacks than other tanks, so we have more EHP against that, less against magic in most cases.
I'm just noting that you can't just look at our HP vs other tanks.
sick sentinel
360 crit/vers/speed gloves wf from world boss. zzz
uneven mason
We have more vs magic in large bursts Snorri
sick sentinel
To explain roughly : when you have 200k HP but 50% damage reduction, your effective hp is 400k for example
stoic kite
Man my haste went from 24% to 17% from all these ilvl upgrades w/ crap stats
uneven mason
item level will still increase your survivability
sick sentinel
uneven mason
haste while fun and nice
sick sentinel
especially since got slight vanguard buff. means moreso.
wintry ermine
I'm interested, in what cases Ikarikaze, not saying its wrong, just interested
sick sentinel
With the buffs, ilvl is even more important
uneven mason
If you have a large tank buster type magic hit incomming we have the potential to reduce it by an insane amount.
uneven mason
Even more than AMS
sick sentinel
Crit gives you parry
wintry ermine
yeah true
sick sentinel
20% parry is a lot
stoic kite
I'm gonna try to do mythic+ this weekend I want to do a 10 key
gaunt coyote
How long till hoa upgrades are account bound?
sick sentinel
8.1
sick sentinel
It's ok
gaunt coyote
well atleast they wont add any more ilvl upgrades to it that will be character locked afterwards
sick sentinel
That would be stupid
junior ivy
so did we get some kinda buff?
grim prism
Kind of but not really
uneven mason
It was basically something they're doing because they said they were going to give prot some love in an upcoming patch
when they couldn't think of anything useful to give us (such as a 50% increase to IPs AP coefficient) they just gave us a minor (very minor) EHP buff
in hopes that no one who plays a warrior can do middleschool algebra and figure out what a pathetic attempt it was at "giving us some love"
Only moderately bitter.
grim prism
To be fair
humble oar
We were mentioned in a post when referring to 8.1 major changes though too
grim prism
Many of us have clearly demonstrated that we cant to basic algebra
orchid plover
IP out of GC.... too much of a buff?
solid mist
It wouldn't be in it's current state just b/c the rage -> EHP conversion on it combined with our rage generation would still limit it
uneven mason
IP off GCD wouldn't be a buff at all
grim prism
No, it would be nearly pointless. Search "IP off GCD" and review one of the 200 other times we've had this exact convo
lusty grotto
wut is algubra
sick sentinel
if I had a more reliable pool of DPSers/healers to group with, easily be min 11+ all the mythic+s. 😛
uneven mason
This is true Balsaq...on the math part, they must be watching
orchid plover
RiP guild? what happened
sick sentinel
no RP
sick sentinel
yeah
orchid plover
ba dum tss
sick sentinel
IE casual cucks.
sick sentinel
not as aggressively as I'd like anyway.
kind glen
Are they holding a gun to make you stay?
uneven mason
and fap to eachothers manginas
gaunt coyote
its better than overbuff imo
sick sentinel
they barely do raids.
grim prism
IE people who send creepy DMs to female tauren
sick sentinel
although they're 4/8 mythic uldir
but man they'd be so much better if they were more aware for themselves, than a voice yelling at them to move when to move etc.
im just glad I dont have to raid.
gaunt coyote
people who need callouts are the worst
just makes it harder for the RL to make decisions on the fly
cause he has to babysit a few
grim prism
Grats
grim prism
💪
junior ivy
but azerite gear ius gonna make me cry
i got 385 shoulders
but i cant use them
casue my 340 ones have deafening crash
sick sentinel
do need to get that AOTC sometime.
but zzz no time normie life.
I know im a badass w/o it anyway.
gaunt coyote
ghuun seems aids to pug
sick sentinel
yeah my shoulders are still 340 too despite having 370 BFI available.
grim prism
LOL
sick sentinel
but I live and die on that DC though. so damn good.
grim prism
Do you not have any other azerite pieces you can reforge @junior ivy
Move some shit around
solid mist
best ghuun in pug I've had is someone on voice comm taking control and saying "I'm not gonna kick you. If it's your first time running orb it's fine. but you need to do it, it's part of the fight. let's get a quick pull goina nd get people comfy with this". downed him in 3 pulls
just setting the tone helps a lot
but in general, yeah it's aids to pugs. most dps in a pug, overly generalizing here, just want to tunnel vision and dps. they dont' want to be the center of attention and have the entire fight depend on them doing something
orbs really throws that out the window
sick sentinel
goddamn shield upgrades are super noticable
rain dune
Do I win?
solid mist
damn son
mellow bridge
?
weak zephyr
cursed image
rain dune
xD
knotty ermine
Wowwowwowwowwow
Same fcking ring, AGAIN from my weekly chest
that is insanely terrible luck
daring marlin
sorry bro
knotty ermine
3 weeks
daring marlin
I got a pair of bracers
knotty ermine
straight
daring marlin
and 390 boots with a socket from the pvp chest lol
sick sentinel
yikes dude
weak zephyr
It's Ion's blessing to give you the same 3 rings.
knotty ermine
So generous
sick sentinel
also grats @rain dune def win of the week of us here so far I think
knotty ermine
I'm bathing in generosity
solid mist
@cinder nova you trying to trigger the entire channel?
weak zephyr
I'm beyond triggered looking at that image.
sick sentinel
disenchant.
solid mist
although. everyday I get on and pray another raid leader hops on to ask us about their terribad prot tank and posts logs that are hilariously bad
knotty ermine
Just went to rage unsub
sick sentinel
I'd be super psyched if I could get a 380+ jew howler from chest one of these weeks.
😛
even though have a 375 atm.
knotty ermine
My subscription is still active for another 2 months because I swapped some gold for game time
You win this time, Blizz
You win this time
weak zephyr
Make sure you make a good shitpost on GD about it too so you trigger everyone there.
sick sentinel
GD?
weak zephyr
General Discussion
knotty ermine
General Discussion
digital arrow
lol carn
upbeat folio
Grats!
digital arrow
fuckin NICE
weak zephyr
👌
knotty ermine
@dull ibex You an enchanter?
lusty grotto
gz
cinder bridge
thanks
dull ibex
i have one
cinder bridge
a small upgrade from the 330 shield I had before
dull ibex
i meant shield stats
knotty ermine
Use whichever shield vendors for less
If you're an enchanter, use whichever one you want
dull ibex
i have 2 same il shields but one is statted crit vers and the other has vers mast
knotty ermine
Correct
dull ibex
which would be better?
knotty ermine
Both will be the same, or very very very close to the same
So use whichever one you want
dull ibex
ok so better question
knotty ermine
also gz on having an interesting choice to make
knotty ermine
I mean its a 6, so... I'd say both are about equal. If you were flexing a 7 I'd say that gives you like 5 more epeen points
dull ibex
i see i see
knotty ermine
Maybe hold onto the m+ shield as evidence that prot warriors can actually run m+? 😛
dull ibex
not this week
cinder bridge
just ran +10 tol dagor with a 330 shield
dull ibex
yikers bro
cinder bridge
so it's doable?
dull ibex
did you chest?
cinder bridge
took 74 dreadful minutes, but it was all worth it
knotty ermine
@cinder bridge Most (keyword: most) people in this channel know it's doable. Unfortunately, almost everyone outside of this channel feel otherwise.
lusty grotto
fort seems harder
sick sentinel
vers/mast > crit/mast
dull ibex
like i can do a 10 freehold easier on tyrran than fort
obv for that
but an underrot is an example
stone imp
Fortified is notably more difficult in most cases.
knotty ermine
Depends on what is coupled with it as well. Generally speaking though, fort will give you far more issues than tyrranical
delicate prism
knotty ermine
My only issue with Tyrannical is that there are instances that your group will just run into a brick fckin wall, but that is more of an issue related to your group and quality of play than the actual affix itself
uneven mason
Trash in BFA is considerably stronger than bosses, as most bosses have been reduced to executing mechanics rather than dealing with stupidly high group damage (the issue with Tyran in Legion was group damage was out of control)
jovial reef
a lot of bosses are stupidly easy even with tyrannical
most trash mobs are hard even without fortified
jovial reef
every week has been shit so far
uneven mason
We'll fare better than most tanks on avg unless you're pushing extreme keys
knotty ermine
A'D is a good example of the "brick wall" I'm talking about. Whole dungeon at 10+ is pretty much a breeze, but then you get to Yazma and the group can/will absolutely shit the bed if they aren't actually executing mechanics properly.
On tyrranical I mean.
cinder bridge
@knotty ermine yeah the community perception of warriors is off, even though we have some issues
uneven mason
Right Carnivale but thats basically EVERY final boss on Tyran
jovial reef
raid dmg is insane on yazma
uneven mason
Its not if you're executing properly
Its laughable if everyone has their head out of their ass
cinder bridge
going from 36% mitigation on block to 44% from shield upgrade, that's going to make some difference...
digital arrow
lol
digital arrow
hahahaah we'll i've been lucky
dull ibex
'hey can you tank this 10 tol dagor?' yikes dude
uneven mason
Yeah Hiwa, getting a high ilvl shield was night and eday
dull ibex
i was asked taht
digital arrow
did u go gibub?
cinder bridge
yeah it's insane
knotty ermine
Fort will be stressful on YOU, largely regardless of your groups quality of play. Tyrranical there's not much you can do as a tank to make up for your group being shit. In a nutshell.
uneven mason
do it man
uneven mason
Do it
dull ibex
i wanna dps it w/ loot spec prot 😃
olive dagger
is real?
knotty ermine
Do it, but make sure you let the horde peeps out their cages in the beginning
difference is quite noticeable
dull ibex
also is it a fair trade to switch a piece of azerite with bloodsport but with azerite veins vs my 2nd piece with BRI and lifespeed?
since the azerite veins heal would be nice
cosmic magnet
@olive dagger yeah tomorrow but it's not enough to bring war tank to the top
lusty grotto
i'm just chuckling at how he asked if its real while its literally blue text
cinder bridge
quick q tho, 340 rezans or 350 vers+str proc?
merry cave
I mean as a good buff, but doesn't address any of wars issues
dull ibex
which trink yeah lol
dull ibex
link/image?
lusty grotto
does it have a name
dull ibex
uhhhh if you need to be tankier
lusty grotto
rezan
dull ibex
go for the insig imo
lusty grotto
no
dull ibex
but rezan is good overall for haste
lusty grotto
use rezan
cinder bridge
is it just me or should AM just be baseline? you're never ever going to pick anything else
knotty ermine
Correct.
cinder bridge
I guess that's the case for several talents but that one just stands out
dull ibex
if done propely last stand is on a 1min cd
knotty ermine
Also devastator needs to be baseline, but OG devastator not this neutered version
cinder bridge
race-changing to dark iron dwarf brb
dull ibex
yes
grim prism
GIEF IP NO GCD
lusty grotto
uh oh
grim prism
All righty, see you all tomorrow for the same convo
lusty grotto
looking forward to it
weak zephyr
no gcd 🍆
digital arrow
what kind of dps do u guys like to bring along for bolstering? any preferences?
digital arrow
i've no wow friends 😦
knotty ermine
Hey guys my guild is telling me to play a different class or I have to be benched, I'm currently our main tank. Is prot really that bad right now? Also my guild is 5/8 heroic atm, if that helps
lusty grotto
T_T
digital arrow
what the hell carn
knotty ermine
I'm just seein if I can get @grim prism to pop a valve
lusty grotto
right on Carnivale
digital arrow
looks like ur ahead of a lotta groups why are they complaining
prolly just trying to pin most of their problems on class choice
lusty grotto
hew hew
digital arrow
😄
knotty ermine
For bolstering DPS I just roll with friends if possible. If not possible, make sure you have solid AoE, or at the very least not a class/spec that has trashcan AoE, since you want everything dying at the same time, or very close to it.
lusty grotto
How do you guys feel about the stam + armor buff? Is it real?
digital arrow
how to make friends in group finder, start ur group and be like WELCOME TO MY PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! at everyone that joins
knotty ermine
Solid ST dps is actually ok, but I don't trust pugs to swap as HP levels drop
daring marlin
A buff is a buff.
lusty grotto
Jebaited
daring marlin
:^)
digital arrow
i guess i need an actual guild now that im getting into higher keys
weak zephyr
"trashcan AoE" lmao
lusty grotto
pocky just keep pugging and identify decent people that can communicate and then add them on bnet
lusty grotto
Honestly it sounds like a lot of work, but it's better in the long run
digital arrow
the only friends ive made on wow are from failed dungeon attempts when i first started but we had a blast
earnest zinc
Those guys sound like baddies
lusty grotto
as long as you have fun
earnest zinc
I mean Carn's guild
lusty grotto
JEBAITED
digital arrow
damn another one bites the dust
earnest zinc
That's a bad raid leader trying to pin problems on someone else
lusty grotto
rofl
knotty ermine
If someone ever says to you in a run "Wow I thought warriors were trash, good job" or something to that effect, add them (assuming they weren't trash). That person will almost always come DPS or Heal for you.
lusty grotto
yeah
earnest zinc
They haven't even killed mythic taloc and they are bitching about class
There is a guild that is 6/8M with a prot MT
knotty ermine
@earnest zinc 'twas a joke. I'm actually the leader in my guild lol. I was just dropping the question that seems to appear here in some form each day, since @grim prism sounded like he was already at his limit for repetitive b/s for the day.
digital arrow
its powerful bait, works on everyone here
u need to wield that more responsibly :p
knotty ermine
Also my guild is me and like 5 RL friends that aren't raiding, so there's also that.
digital arrow
im always at my limit (90+ rage)
earnest zinc
The thing that turned me off of prot isn't how weak it is, but how clunky it feels
lusty grotto
it's too fresh, fresh from the pot
knotty ermine
Gotta get a WA to remind you about dumping that stuff off @digital arrow , obviously
earnest zinc
I didn't notice much of a problem with prot warrior
Then again I haven't done any high end content
sick sentinel
I like it.
digital arrow
if only that WA was implemented into this discord 😂
knotty ermine
It could be, through reaction emojis, if there weren't such brutal dictators in charge
Literally worse than [Insert example here]. literally
strong hill
@knotty ermine is your guild 5/8 heroic 1/8 mythic ?
lusty grotto
the bait is real
knotty ermine
lolololol
knotty ermine
This is where I would use a reaction if I were allowed to
knotty ermine
Then nah, hold onto your DC item as well
neon tangle
since I've only gotten a 340 helm so far
ember arrow
hushed cobalt
i understand completely
knotty ermine
Thornwoven and Ancient
hushed cobalt
kk, was thinking that but also haste. looking back and forth at stat list on icy veins got me shrugging
dark junco
385 Raptor helm. Not sure if bloodsport/AV 385 is better than 370 bfi/av
knotty ermine
@hushed cobalt ilevel will be an upgrade in almost every single instance, with pretty much the only exceptions being given to trinkets or maintaining DC on one slot of your azerite gear
hushed cobalt
that's an easy rule
dark junco
Beside rings
Try to aim for most haste mainly
Running a 350 gnarled with a socket and speed.
But I have a 380 crit vers waiting.
next ermine
has anything changed for Prot on the ptr? Last I saw we had lost our mastery and that was all
neon tangle
@dark junco @knotty ermine You guys fight it out and decide on the rings for that guy
dark junco
@next ermine According to all tooltips, no more critblock anywhere
neon tangle
@next ermine Still no update, last blue post said that the changes will come later in the dev cycle for most of the class reworks
dark junco
But thats it atm
next ermine
rip 😦
neon tangle
with a "also maybe we won't have time, who knows"
dark junco
(And yet we were/we are scheduled first on /r/wow for the class update discussion)
knotty ermine
To make it as easy as possible, go with the item that gives you the most total stats. This should account for sockets being present on rings, but also pretty plainly means that in almost all situations aside from what I outlined with trinkets and azerite, ilevel>all.
Taken directly from the IV page by @fierce juniper: Generally speaking, the stat priority should only be followed when comparing gear of the same item level. A piece of gear with a higher item level than what you currently have should be equipped regardless of its secondary stats.
junior ivy
ew arena weekly quest
frosty wedge
yeah :/
knotty ermine
Go in there as prot, make all the lulz
You won't kill anything (maybe you will?), but you will seriously piss off an enemy healer
kind glen
gottem
broken kite
n i c e
frosty wedge
nice!
chrome steppe
"has anything changed for Prot on the ptr? Last I saw we had lost our mastery and that was all:"
wat?
chrome steppe
I was more wtfied by the "we lost our mastery part". Is it just some rework, placeholder for moderate changes or placeholder for complete, full change? Or do we know nothing at all yet?
stark dock
hi!! anyone has a page to see azerite trait for prote pvp and pve?
knotty ermine
Could be worse. It's Groundhog Day for a bunch of Shaman coming out to determine if they see their shadow, and whether they will be part of this raid tier or not
chrome steppe
"We are jon snow atm"We are jon snow atm"
Uhh, white and missing an h?
frosty wedge
oh laura, they're probably working on changes to mastery
frosty wedge
rofl
chrome steppe
God, I wish they'd just rebuild stuff from scratch. I especially hate our stat priorities (haste first, crit last? wtf, it's a warrior ffs), both their order and how they're so close pretty much only iLvl matters.
frosty wedge
sccurate
whats wrong with haste first? you go into a rage and start swinging faster?
I honestly hated how slow/clunky warr felt with crit as our main stat
manic sentinel
I'd like to gear for things like Dodge, Block, Avoidance, etc. I don't remember all the specifics but I do recall gear choices being a lot more engaging during BC/WotLK
sick sentinel
ya big nice there @broken kite
chrome steppe
I just hate how everyone and everything is haste based. Heck, I don't remember which spec it was, but they got haste as their #2 stat and both Blizz and community commentary was how great it is they now use haste so the class doesn't feel like shit, unlike those who don't. Well, if everything feels like shit without haste, perhaps there's a problem to work on.
knotty ermine
Tbh I actually like that prot is where it is when it comes to stat priority, etc. Feels stellar to get an upgrade that is just an upgrade, no maths needed, etc.
Ilevel upgrades actually being upgrades in basically all instances feels great.
lusty grotto
every class is haste based
frosty wedge
not my BrM
lusty grotto
do you know why? BECAUSE GCD
frosty wedge
BrM is ilvl > all
chrome steppe
I fucking hate it, just like I hate iLvl, which imo is the cause of 75% of everything bad with the game atm.
chrome steppe
jsut fuck iLvl
stark sage
iLVL has existed forever
knotty ermine
My fury set, for example, felt terrible that my 325 boots (because of a socket) were better than any item until 360, and even then they had to be haste and either crit or mastery.
lusty grotto
we are ilvl > all too
stark sage
it just hasnt been printed until like wotlk
frosty wedge
no we're not - haste is better than every other seconadry
lusty grotto
right, ilvl is stat budget or whatever
chrome steppe
WotLK had GS
stark sage
gearscore was a thing in wotlk
frosty wedge
it was always the same thing, just hidden
stark sage
but the idea that items have stat budgets based on their level has been around since day 1
chrome steppe
BC was the last thing where gearing required more than just reading one number.
knotty ermine
@frosty wedge better, but the difference is extremely minimal. To the point that in every single case not related to trinkets or azerite (or sockets), Ilevel will always be better.
frosty wedge
gear from one place had more stats on it, thus was higher ilvl than gear from a different place
lusty grotto
Laura gearing has never been like that, play a dps class
and sim yourself
tanks are slightly different due to non-existant sims
knotty ermine
Trinkets are always an isolated case though
chrome steppe
engineering goggles arguably BiS for some tanks/tank gearsets
knotty ermine
Blizz has been terrible at trinket balance from day one
manic sentinel
i remember when engineering goggles were worth
lusty grotto
☝ right CoF was a thing
manic sentinel
good times
stark sage
there is always some trinket that overperforms
arcano was another
and BTI
and rune of reorigination
there are tons of them
soul cap
etc
lusty grotto
the saurfang trinket in WotLK
knotty ermine
Trinkets in WoW have either been balanced, or actually fun/interesting with their interaction and powerful/mandatory. With Blizzard, those two choices are mutually exclusive, and always have been.
lusty grotto
autoblocker wasn't really BiS there were better
i mean it was amazing defensively sure
dark lark
just got a 385 merekthra's fang...fml
strong hill
I can remember the trinket from tol barad being great right until the end of dragon soul
lusty grotto
shit... talking about gearing, resistant gear sets, unhittable sets for heroic tournament, etc etc
frosty wedge
ffs, the nature resist gear we farmed for AQ
knotty ermine
Darkmoon deck was BiS for... (shit I don't recall... guardian druids I think? Maybe prot pallies?) for the entirety of Legion
sand egret
Green Dragon farm yo
lusty grotto
lol carnivale
sand egret
LFM Mauradon runs for NR gear
knotty ermine
😛
lusty grotto
you're on jebaiting timeout
knotty ermine
Hahahahahaha
cinder nova
I'll be honest.
knotty ermine
Point is, trinkets almost need to be in their own category entirely (and usually are) when discussing how balanced things are. When outliers exist with gearing decisions and balancing of classes, they are almost always an item that fits in your trinket slot.
cinder nova
Why the fuck do we still have Ravager?
Every time I look at my talent tree I just can't get my head around some of this shit.
lusty grotto
knotty ermine
But right now, with Prot, your trinket slot and one of your azerite slots are the only places that any thought is required when gearing up and deciding on upgrades, and honestly, that feels AMAZING
It may not be exciting, I get how some people enjoy playing stat tetris
astral crystal
knotty ermine
But it is almost never disappointing _except when you get the exact same 370 item from your chest 3 weeks in a row thanks rnjsus you fckin prick)
sand egret
👆
knotty ermine
Didn't say big decisions, I just said its the only slot in our gear table that requires any thought at all
lusty grotto
hmm
knotty ermine
Every other slot can be determined just by looking at ilevel. Some people seem to take for granted how much better that feels than "Aww man I just got this item that is a 20+ point upgrade but isn't actually an upgrade because the secondaries suck"
cinder nova
ilvl being our highest weight makes gearing brainless
Make sure you have DC
Take ilvl
done
frosty wedge
yeah monk is the same, without the DC restriction, lol