Without holding it i mean
#protection
eternal solstice
got ya
grim prism
Well not EVERY TIME
eternal solstice
Majority
steel mauve
if you could have use demo shout even one more time in a fight thats just the boss dieing quicker that could have happened, and if you miss out on more than 1 cast then the damage the boss wouldnt have done would be far more than what demo shout saved you holding onto it
grim prism
But half the time. Lol
solid mist
also using DS while not tanking, you are feeding yourself rage, which you are then spending and bringing your other CDs (and DS itself) down so ends up being defensive in that regard anyway
eternal solstice
That's a good point
dusk locust
that's fair
steel mauve
that and if you hold off on using it, then youll need to hold off on using it again until avatar comes back so its synced up, because it should realistically be used with avatar regardless
sick sentinel
muh rages
eternal solstice
What do you guys pop first
dusk locust
i guess it feels sort of counter to being a proactive tank if i'm doing my rotation regardless.. but using it as a rage generation engine i can see
sick sentinel
pre-charge a raid member x2 to build rage, avatar+leap into boss> demo > tclap> boom thereafter.
grim prism
^ this except some people do ava > tclap > demo > tclap instead of ava > demo > tclap if one GCD worth of downtime isnt a survivability issue
Gets you an extra tclap during avatar, and demo is still rolling before the next one comes off cooldown either way
TLDR cast avatar before demo.
sick sentinel
true.
grim prism
And as long as we are talking ways to maximize rage, be sure to spam TC during RP phases because the rage doesnt fall off in combat
sick sentinel
yeah. tclap + charge random members.
easily full rage by time actually engagement returns.
dusk locust
i need to start charging more
sick sentinel
mouseover charge macro breezie rage.
steel mauve
ya i use the clique addon with charge
brave halo
I'm don't main Protection, so I need some help with trinkets: which 2 should I use? I have 360 Galecaller's, 340 Dread Gladiator's Medallion, 360 Dread Gladiator's Badge, 360 Syringe, 335 Brawler's Statue, and 340 Disc of Systemic Regression.
I tried using AMR but it doesn't have the PVP trinkets, which seem like they could be good (one has Vers with huge Strength on-use, the other has Strength with lots of Vers on use)
chilly brook
Mouse over macro is great
stone crag
don't use AMR, ever
outer dew
Depends what you want
chilly brook
@brave halo use blockades and probably Syringe
outer dew
I use fathoms and Mythrax trinket for m+
chilly brook
Or blockades and fathoms if you have both for a default setup
outer dew
Because I feel durable enough for 10 farms and Mythrax fills the small gaps in my rotation when j ess up
Really depends on your group
brave halo
@chilly brook I don't have Blockades
I do have Fathoms, but the proc isn't really a survival thing
outer dew
Well. The survival thing only matters if you feel like you're dying
plain hinge
Ignore pain or schild block ?
outer dew
SB is priority for physical damage
chilly brook
Blockades is super cheap
stark wraith
I'm using a 380 rezan with a 370 howler
chilly brook
SB if blockable
brave halo
Can you just tell me based on what I have?
I don't want to drop 80K gold for Blockades
outer dew
It's 16k on my server
stark wraith
Blockades like 20k mad wut
stark wraith
Max*
outer dew
And what it comes down to is how you're feeling on your m+
chilly brook
I can’t tell you which of the trinks is “best”
stark wraith
Syringe and gale beak should be fine
outer dew
A survivability trinket won't help much if ya know, you're not really being threatened
Better to push damage instead
brave halo
I understand it's going to change fight to fight, I'm only looking for a default setup
stone crag
🤔
brave halo
TY @stark wraith
outer dew
Default doesn't work well with tanks
stone crag
how does that make sense to you
outer dew
It's just knowing if the content you're doing is gonna wreck you or not
stone crag
trinkets change from fight to fight
but just give me the BiS for everything
outer dew
If he's doing 10 keys and decently geared
Just go full dps trinket
And the 10s farm was me
:P
No idea what content he's doing
keen spire
I mean, I use a 375 Xalziax's and a 355 Galecaller's in just about every setup in raids.
The Xalziax has saved my ass like 13 times already, so I've grown attached to it
sick sentinel
smh yet to get a howler drop.
brave halo
(1) Tanking is only very occasional for me, I'm not super serious about it like I presume you folks are; (2) As a result of 1, I'm probably not going to be changing my tank trinkets often. I'm a bandaid tank. That's it..
sick sentinel
only have fathoms + blockades, and a 340 rezans w/ socket haste.
brave halo
Mythics 7+, N Uldir, H Uldir in a pinch
steel mauve
im considering dropping blockades for fathoms
keen spire
@brave halo Dude just get the darkmoon trinkets and you'll be fine
sick sentinel
there is no 'default' settup. you survivability oriented trinkets as tank, or offensive oriented trinkets
stark wraith
Yeah like in M+ just getting more raw str or high ilvl PVP trinkets will be good
keen spire
^
steel mauve
how much dps does fathoms do on avg?
stark wraith
Remember you're not supposed to eat everything, really it's dump threat and then kite
keen spire
36.4
:3
don't listen to me, I'm making shit up
about the fathoms, I mean
Didn't blizz state that they weren't happy with the way people would just kite everything around in M+ and work to change that?
I mean I thought that's why we lost a bunch of our powerful slows across the board, plus the threat reduc
steel mauve
they made the mobs require us to do that though lol
not like kiting is actually fun, its just about the only way to survive lol
mellow bridge
^
I really dislike having to kite so much at higher levels but that's what you gotta do
stark wraith
Except dk gets to keep 90% Initial slow on DnD OmegaLul
keen spire
lame
kinda feels like they had two teams on M+ stuff
1 team was like "Nah let's make it so they can't kite well"
the other team was like "let's make them kite
steel mauve
i dont wake up in the morning like ,"boy i cant wait to kite in mythic+ today"
dark junco
^
stark wraith
But then you woke up wrong!!
neon tangle
on the one hand, kiting definitely doens't fit in to my idea of the tanking class fantasy
on the other hand, it's at least more fun than standing still and just punching my rotation
chrome falcon
I will never understand the crackling thunder nerf
Those extra 6 yards or w/e on thunderclap would help so much
old night
roto question
when you are not active tank and are waiting for a swap do you still keep up one charge of SB for damage?
or do you bank it until you're active
ive heard both sides and was wondering what you all do
tulip arch
Optimal usage is to probably use it as much as you want such that the charges are ready to go when you swap back
old night
yeah definitely feels better overall to be using it and not letting it just sit there
but didnt know if that was a bad habit or not
tulip arch
Bat habit would be to just use it without thought
But if you know you are not going to be tanking for the next 10-15 seconds and you have 2 charges then I say use it
The only other consideration is wasting rage, but I think you would make the 30 rage back by then
neon tangle
@old night Maybe worth dumping rage in to revenge instead? or pre-IP-ing
chrome falcon
It's really situational
Depends on the boss but 99% of the time you want to make sure you don't have to take a melee swing without block up
Like, using shield block essentially does damage equal to 30% of the damage of the shield slams you cast during the shield block
Which is, most of the time, about 60% of one shield slam
Sometimes 90% of one shield slam
sacred wharf
hey guys is the pawn string on noxxic accurate for prot warriors? cant seem to find any pawn strings other than noxxic
chrome falcon
Which is kind of incredibly low damage, if you think about the fact that you're risking tanking unmitigated hits
noxxic is toxic 🤢
sacred wharf
hmm cant sim stat weights on Raid bots any suggestions ?
cloud bone
use icy veins
neon tangle
Revenge is ~7k for me, SS is ~8k for me
cloud bone
and don't use pawn for prot
neon tangle
If I have extra rage, and I'm not currently tanking, revenge is better damage-per-rage-spent
chrome falcon
Unless Revenge does that annoying thing where it doesn't cost rage
neon tangle
@chrome falcon Not an issue if you're not tanking!
chrome falcon
Might have a leftover proc from when you were tanking but fair
god i fucking hate revenge
neon tangle
@old night So, for IP you can bank up to 130% of a block, so when I'm not actively tanking I aim to have a 130% IP up for when I take it back
rage above that goes in to revenge
SB I save for the boss
ESPECIALLY if shit goes sideways and the other tank dies or something
keen spire
If you're trying to maximize DPS, use Shield Block even when you're not actively tanking
I literally just continue as if I'm actively tanking
ancient reef
got a dc chest from the drustvar turn in pumped
keen spire
just in case I need to grab aggro in an emergency
steel mauve
i personally dont use shield block while im not tanking but thats just me
keen spire
what are your parses like? j/c
steel mauve
85+ normal, 75+ heroic, except mother because im add bitch and zekvoz because it was our first kill
half my normals were like orange but thats easy to do
keen spire
noice noice
steel mauve
im wanting to go dps for mother and just solo tank it but a lot of the raid dies before or during 3rd room
keen spire
o.O
steel mauve
and ive had my co tank die and i had to take over
steel mauve
dumb shit
steel mauve
lasers pretty much
keen spire
shit's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeasy
steel mauve
yep
sick sentinel
@steel mauve what do you mean "before the third room"
Mother in normal and HC has only 2 rooms
ember arrow
🤔
sick sentinel
Once everybody is in the second room, bl and kill her
old night
@neon tangle yeah I usually just dump rage into IP while I'm off tanking and the second I take aggro I pop my first block and with about 1-2 seconds before recharge I'll pop the other block
I usually try to keep one block up just in case as I've heard that double blocking is super bad
steel mauve
well normal we bloodlust first room and kill her before second
but heroic we do all 3 rooms
robust bronze
which rings would you guys use?
steel mauve
370 and 365, why is that a question
sick sentinel
Ritual and thorn IMO
fickle kiln
Ritual and thorn
plain ice
+1 for ritual and thorn
steel mauve
dont drop 15 ilvls
fickle kiln
No str
robust bronze
no strenght tho
fickle kiln
Just stam
steel mauve
people argue not to drop 5ilvls on rings, 15 is a ton
sick sentinel
I would gladly lose that 30 stam for major haste and vers
plain ice
15 ilvls is only -27 secondary stats
steel mauve
you literally lose 70 stats dropping 15 ilvls
plain ice
hence the -27 SECONDARY stats
steel mauve
stam + secondaires is 70
fickle kiln
That 300 crit is big tho
steel mauve
and crits not that far behind haste
plain ice
i think you might have missed where i specifically said secondaries 🤔
fickle kiln
But crit 😶
steel mauve
its extremely close to haste, so having a major crit isnt going to hurt you
sick sentinel
And some blade combos went like parry-parry-hit-dodge
keen spire
my reorigination array tells me that crit is good
plain ice
just sim for stat weights
fickle kiln
Lol
steel mauve
dont do that^
keen spire
yeah it's my 2nd highest
plain ice
or look up noxxic stat weights
keen spire
¯_(ツ)_/¯
stone crag
🤔
sick sentinel
I do not want to live in a world where haste is not my highest stat
sick sentinel
Aw rip
plain ice
or ask mr. robot. their tank sims are on point
sick sentinel
Well it gives me haste so I am happy
vocal nimbus
dont troll too far
plain ice
OK i'm done lol
steel mauve
it shouldnt increase your second highest
sick sentinel
Thing is , crit is fine, just do not try to OT fetid
stone crag
reorigination definitely increases your top secondary stat
steel mauve
then its bugged or the tooltip is wrong
steel mauve
im gonna go with bugged
steel mauve
because theyve never done a second highest stat, thats pointless and would be very difficult to game
keen spire
I thought that was fucking stupid too
steel mauve
tooltip says highest secondary stat
keen spire
the buff, when I hover over it, says second highest stat
I'll screenshot when I get home
sick sentinel
Let's change the topic
keen spire
why
sick sentinel
What are your favorite healers
sick sentinel
Like from best to worst
keen spire
let's change the topic
sick sentinel
-_-
keen spire
😉
keen spire
wait @steel mauve - are you saying it's based off the fucking percentages?
outer dew
MW/Disc/Hpal/Rdruid/Hpriest/RShaman
outer dew
Well. A good disc priest anyway
Some just goes full memes and shadowmend
and only shadowmend
steel mauve
nvm it should be the higher rating
outer dew
Thing with rating healers is it comes down to are they geared, and are they not bad
neon tangle
Another tuning pass (Oct 2) w/ no mention of prot yet
weak zephyr
time 4 that reroll, b
neon tangle
@outer dew Sounds like trying to rate tanks
stone crag
same thing can be said about tank rankings, yet it's asked about daily
outer dew
I mean. I'm working in that ele shaman ):
I mean, most people are better off taking the player over a class
keen spire
^
sick sentinel
well, you assume roughly equal skill
outer dew
But equal skill is a rough thing to do, how do I gauge if someone is equally skillful?
keen spire
parses/logs
outer dew
Parses for healers are real wack
molten atlas
Dude honestly, my main healer just healed a good dk, said he could handle 30stacks of necrotic, maybe its time to reroll if theres no news on warrior buffs
steel mauve
should probably play what you enjoy and know how to
keen spire
^
outer dew
I mean
molten atlas
U bad 😏😏
outer dew
I've grabbed 30 necrotic stacks and didn't feel miserable
Was it smart?
No
Was I lazy fuck?
Yes
static pilot
Patch notes for October 2nd are up
outer dew
Link?
molten atlas
Liiiink
finite cairn
stone crag
steel mauve
ive seen good prot warrior reroll to monk because they though prot wars sucked and were shit monks because they didnt understand the class
static pilot
outer dew
Ty
ancient reef
why are dh good tanks right now
outer dew
I mean. I don't like monk after brew choices
finite cairn
i stopped playing my monk because i miss the ranged keg smash too much
outer dew
I mean, the way it feels now is
Isb 100% and pray my stagger doesn't get crazy high
So I can dispell the stagger
keen spire
all the while looking at your healer, saying "you gonna get that?"
molten atlas
How would you rate tanks then? Assuming equal skill and ilvl
keen spire
depends on content
outer dew
For what content?
static pilot
I'm not 100% sure I'd call DH good tanks now (imo they're average) but they have very good aoe damage, very good mobility and quite good utility
keen spire
we talkin raids or M+
molten atlas
M+
keen spire
DK is top
static pilot
DK>DH=Monk=Paladin>>Warrior=Druid
signal plover
Guardian is top because swolebear mog
outer dew
I think DK/DH/Paladin
outer dew
Are my top choices for m+
static pilot
monk is debatable, depends on the affixes and the healer
outer dew
Don't really like monks too much if I'm on rsham
static pilot
tbf resto shaman and bm monk are the worst possible combo
outer dew
Ayy. They buffed elemental
molten atlas
Lol theu needed it
static pilot
enhancement too, flat 5% buff 😃
outer dew
Maybe I'll actually commit to this elemental shaman meme
Lmao
But I think Paladin's are in a real solid spot
Mechanically not terribly complex, but lots of tools to deal with things
neon tangle
@outer dew 8.1 PTR has a silly buff to their charge thing currently
molten atlas
You know what would be nice for warriors, max hp per block xD for our mastery trait
neon tangle
3 -> 8s
outer dew
Will it be an aura?
So I can stop my charge
I don't want to accidently run off to Africa
Or spin in circles to get crit in the back
neon tangle
I think it just gives you 100% movespeed
outer dew
Oh good
molten atlas
That sounds good
outer dew
I mean, that sounds great then
You're not moving all the time
And you lose mitigation by constantly movement
It just gives you a more efficient kite if you just need to gtfo
Vs slow kiting with consecration
static pilot
that's the one thing I notice with paladin tanks - they move jerkily
either they're galloping away at 100 miles an hour or they're slowly running towards the next pack
neon tangle
@outer dew also yes you can cancel it
static pilot
in other news - archives of the titans - how does it stack?
outer dew
Then yea, that seems fine then
If it was shit qol where you had to be on that speed for the full 8s
I'd take the 3s
stone crag
increases the amount of primary stat that stacks with archive @static pilot
neon tangle
apparently it also stacks w/ the 20% pally mount increase
outer dew
Don't think that's a big issue
neon tangle
if ptr goes live 220% speed for 8s, every 45s
outer dew
Well. Maybe for BG
stone crag
i'd imagine others do as well
static pilot
@stone crag thanks :)=
outer dew
But in general I don't think it'd be a big issue
Trying to get a shaman up to speed as my warrior and considering a paladin
chrome falcon
are you fucking shitting me
another class tuning pass that ignores us
blizzard you're breaking my balls here
ember arrow
what>
stone crag
because there's bigger changes happening on PTR, the current notes are hotfixed in ¯_(ツ)_/¯
balmy crystal
does reckless flurry work for prot? i heard people talk about it but i can't find it in any guide
outer dew
Tuning DPS is easier than Tanks imo
chrome falcon
@stone crag but they did also say there was some emergency tuning coming for us :/ i feel extremely baited
old night
even tho im eagerly waiting to hear notes about the changes we're getting I'm fully expecting them to be baked into 8.1
i highly doubt we're gonna get hotfixed
steel mauve
idk why you would want to buff auto attack damage though
old night
hopefully they get rid of useless talents like indom and ravager
old night
tbh devastator should just be baseline now
ember arrow
it makes choosing between other 2 easier
winged elm
lmao please tell me those new patch notes aren't the "Fix" to prot war
Warrior
Protection
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
sick
neon tangle
Where’s that from?
real fossil
BaLanCeD
uneven mason
Its that "minor" bandaid
Because more HP and more Armor address the issues warriors face.....................................................
quartz pond
hey thunder clap gonna hit harder a bit
uneven mason
hows TC gonna hit harder?
neon tangle
I mean they said small buffs now, larger rework later
quartz pond
its not
uneven mason
Yeah its just frustraiting because I mean, literally those 2 changes address nothing
uneven mason
like, I already have enough HP, and I already mitigate damage that is mitigateable by armor by an insane fucking amount
OHBOY another 0.4% DR from armor 👏
sinful vortex
@ember arrow is prot still gonna suck dick with these buffs
uneven mason
We don't suck thats the thing
quartz pond
maybe prot is op
uneven mason
We have some issues, and none of them are addressed with more HP or armor
quartz pond
and everyone just sucks
chilly brook
Prot warrior is literally fine @sinful vortex
uneven mason
Or maybie its just harder to play than other tanks, we're not BAD, we're just not the meta
weak zephyr
We are harder to play. We aren't bad.
ancient reef
it really is so much juggling
weak zephyr
It's just that it takes more effort to play.
ancient reef
and gcd is killin me
uneven mason
like I said prot has issues, HP and armor are literally not in any logical way, included on that list
ancient reef
half the time i think i hit something and i didnt cause i was in gcd
chilly brook
There's not much to juggle tbh
weak zephyr
I woud dead ass give ion a a handjob if blizz took IP off of the fucking gcd
chilly brook
Are you aware of what's going on? Press according mitigation
uneven mason
IP off the GCD would address nothing
quartz pond
IP off gcd would be pretty good
tiny sphinx
wouldn't say it addresses nothing, but it doesn't address everything
chilly brook
IP off GCD wouldn't fix anything
dense flame
Beginning legion IP warrior 👍
outer dew
I mean. If I can survive and do content. I'm okay
If some bitch one shots me through 2 CDs
Then I'll worry
dense flame
Hahaha that feelsbad
nocturne herald
Warrior
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
soft kindle
wow
weak zephyr
lmao
quartz pond
someone has to bring the hot news
soft kindle
I mean, community though fury was literal trash, it got a 6% buff, now people think it's better than arms
outer dew
Y'all know the stigma stays for like the whole expansion
soft kindle
so probably
sick sentinel
I'm going insane, I laughed at those notes
soft kindle
since the sim fix, yeah
outer dew
The raid isn't patchwork
dark junco
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
Them buffs
we're now op
xD
outer dew
All the bosses favor arms atm
stark sage
actually sounds kinda good
quartz pond
wait hold on
weak zephyr
we've always been op
dark junco
Only costed us our mastery
steel mauve
copy pasted 3 times in ten minutes, while still discussing it from the first time it was copied
soft kindle
Has anyone seens these yet?!??!
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
whoa
look at those
stark sage
🔨 meth
quartz pond
get in line asshole
sick sentinel
because our issue is hp pool...
dark junco
^
soft kindle
😈
static pilot
well, it cant hurt
fiery pendant
its helpful but needs more
outer dew
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%). ???? Are these even buffs
fiery pendant
imo
stark sage
i think you underestimate this buff, its pretty good tbh
weak zephyr
yeah my dude
static pilot
but it aint the comprehensive rework I was hoping for
steel mauve
5 times in 13 minutes
sick sentinel
totally instead of one shotting on adds in m+'s, it's now still one shot..
outer dew
I mean. My complaint for warrior hasnt really been survivability
ember arrow
well it is warrs main problem
quartz pond
its not 5% armor though is it
outer dew
It's more of how it feels as a spec
steel mauve
5% more armor from str
neon tangle
Just to remind everyone, they said small buffs are coming soon, with a larger rework later
quartz pond
ya
neon tangle
so this is unlikely to be all of the changes
weak zephyr
thx for the update
neon tangle
just a bandaid
stark sage
its definitely not all of the changes
quartz pond
I miss the prot warrior that had revenge nerfed 4 times in one expansion
neon tangle
"Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments."
soft kindle
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
fiery pendant
thanks sadbox
stark sage
meth pls
solid mist
I mean. easiest thing for them to do during a hotfix is tweak a % based stat slightly
¯_(ツ)_/¯
neon tangle
somewhat lower non-AM damage + a bit bigger of a HP pool certainly seems like it will help prot warriors a bit
soft kindle
I only use prot in dungeons, and my biggest issue is attacks I can't block
static pilot
where are those buffs listed? I dont see them on MMO Champ
soft kindle
that'd be nice to change
solid mist
click through to the blue tracker
steel mauve
bnets site
steel mauve
i think they edited the post and they didnt edit mmo's
solid mist
😏
fierce juniper
Prot Buffs: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769527059#post-1
- Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
- Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
These adjustments may be a bandaid as it seems they might have some mechanical changes coming in a later patch. So don't assume these are the only changes we're receiving.
chilly brook
Literally about to upload this +9 underrot solo
chrome falcon
aren't these buffs roughly equivalent to like... a 10 ilvl upgrade on a chestpiece or something
i'll take what we can get but
ember arrow
no its not
chilly brook
No
static pilot
oh wow, they buffed resto shaman too
chilly brook
It's an exponential buff
ember arrow
because its active all the time
chrome falcon
am i misunderstanding how the maths on that vanguard buff works
chilly brook
Not something that is simply fixed
static pilot
all three shaman specs get buffed in one week, that's borderline a miracle
worthy karma
Hahahah tiniest buff ever
steel mauve
ele shaman getting buffed is a miracle 😉
sick sentinel
https://gyazo.com/4058d0cee7676f335b65f85ee7ea0137 how Blizzard feels about prot warriors (NPCs included)
worthy karma
Can someone give actual math on how much of a buff this actually is
worthy karma
Its not tho
ember arrow
ye got nothing
weak zephyr
you use measure theory
static pilot
I know, I'm joking ^^
worthy karma
No no i mean just give an example, right now a 365ilvl warr has x hp and str roughly. Which gives them an effective health of x. With this buff they will have y
I would do it, I'm just not at home with access to the info to do it
sick sentinel
warriors have no mathematician theorycrafters.
sorry.
my earlier statement remains true. especially with this lel buff
keen spire
Any speculation on what they might get fixed up for us in 8.1?
stark sage
rip cosmo TC 2k18 - 2k18
quartz pond
card tricks
stone crag
🤣
stark sage
@keen spire likely a change to our mastery
weak zephyr
ight it's strength+(strength*.5)=vanguard strength im a theorycrafter now
stone crag
keladan that's TC level of thinking
neon tangle
My pet theory is that crit block will be removed and replaced with something that smooths our damage a bit more
solid mist
that makes teh most sense
fierce juniper
The stamina buff for Vanguard works out to a ~3.7% HP increase.
neon tangle
Maybe buffing IP with mastery
worthy karma
That would be really good
fierce juniper
working out the DR gained from armor
worthy karma
But highly unlikely lol
quartz pond
but are you even a certified mathman?
solid mist
I mean. crit block is jsut "win more" if you were already going to block, in most stable situations, the crit is just icing
worthy karma
Thanks @fierce juniper
real fossil
Inbe4 critical block now adds a shield for the next instances of damage until shield runs out
After the block
Call it like anticipation or something
stark sage
i could see something lazy like improved block, mastery just makes the DR better passively up to a cap
astral crystal
yo
quaint kiln
lower SB rage cost and take IP off GCD....
astral crystal
we got a health and armor increase
chilly brook
The +9 boss solo
quaint kiln
or like...fix RFDT
weak zephyr
@quaint kiln Blizzard will never take it off the GCD. They'd rather END the game than do that lmao
chilly brook
RFDT doesn't have any holding on our mitigation tbh
vast gale
Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
ember arrow
underrot last boss does no dmg though
elfin apex
I mean they took other abilities off the gcd I don't see the difference
astral crystal
you can just heal yourself killing orbs
chilly brook
Underrot last boss does plenty of damage
ember arrow
riiight
chilly brook
it's not his damage that makes that possible
static pilot
you have at will victory rush
chilly brook
It's the endless VR's
static pilot
ofc you can solo that
static pilot
^
quartz pond
nah
ember arrow
gotta survive to get there first 😉
quartz pond
u have to reach last boss first 😄
strong hill
tfw you are in a time walking dungeon and someone asks are you a 120 prot warrior, you say yes and they say you are the first one they have come across in the past 2 weeks
ember arrow
its same thing
keen spire
@chilly brook good job dude! that was dope 😄
ember arrow
@strong hill maybe they dont play much
weak zephyr
@strong hill tfw healers say to you that they'd rather be healing other people than your class.
strong hill
@ember arrow quite possible
outer dew
I haven't had anyone flat out say thst
neon tangle
I live in bizarro land where my healers are convinced that BDK is horrible
and prot warrior is their favorite
rose summit
same sadbox
weak zephyr
"convinced that BDK is horrible" 🛑
stone crag
yikes
quaint kiln
@chilly brook RFDT against magic is a lopsided equation for prot warrior vs. any other class who's resource doesn't rely on being meleed
solid mist
self reliance and vampiric speed are like equally crap right?
rose summit
Our healers like people that don't have spiking HP
if I use mitigation right, it's way smoother
but that's a big if
keen spire
trouble with mitigation infurious?
weak zephyr
You can not have omega spiking HP as prot, it's just that people have to work harder for it.
keen spire
looks like you need 
stark sage
yeah prot either has steady hp or dead
weak zephyr
Use your CDs wisely.
stark sage
not much inbetween 😆
rose summit
it takes a few wipes to figure out when to use what
like when Zekvoz does his combo, he always trolls me and does his donut spell right after
so I cant waste mitigation there
ember arrow
he prioritized explosions
you shouldknow that
tank comboes are 90% of the time always prioritized last
if u tanked argus u saw that perfectly
rose summit
i never tanked since BC
ember arrow
oh ok
rose summit
this was my first time going back to it
ember arrow
then i forgive you 😛
stone crag
big F
astral crystal
get that paladin OUT OF HERE
rose summit
I quit tanking in BC cause I basically had a broken wrist from so much spam
stone crag
@sick sentinelyme
astral crystal
wait wtf happened to thyme
weak zephyr
@stone crag w8 how tf did you do that discord quote
keen spire
he's a druid now
weak zephyr
@astral crystal he defected to prot pal
ember arrow
@astral crystal he left skyhold
stone crag
it's a BetterDiscord Plugin
stark sage
😦
astral crystal
motherfucker
neon tangle
@rose summit I played a bear back then, just spamming 3 buttons over and over and over
weak zephyr
mass ping memes?
ember arrow
i dont paly prot yet am still here 
keen spire
the fuck
ember arrow
oh no
stone crag
and it's definitely not because of pinging, that didn't bother him
ember arrow
marok typing
weak zephyr
oh bby
ember arrow
i jsut want to see prot's development
fierce juniper
Prot Buffs: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769527059#post-1
- Vanguard now increases armor by 50% of Strength (was 45%).
- Vanguard increases Stamina by 40% (was 35%).
The Stamina increase works out to a ~3.7% Health increase.
The Armor increase works out to a ~11.65% damage reduction.
These buffs definitely aren't insignificant (particularly the armor increase), and will help, but they may be a temporary change as it seems they might have some mechanical changes coming in a later patch. So don't assume these are the only buffs we're receiving.
ember arrow
and skyhold is a good way to do it
ember arrow
👍
weak zephyr
👌
night imp
Anyone happen to know how hard terrible trash hits completely unmitigated on fetid mythic?
ember arrow
650k i believe
stark sage
14% DR seems really good
fierce juniper
yeah, definitely not bad
quartz pond
only physical dmg though
ember arrow
which is 95% of the dmg you take
hot locust
^
quartz pond
but u know that lightning bolt
ember arrow
in raids, magic dmg is almost always irrelvant to ttanks
in m+ its usually dodgeable or kickable
quartz pond
everyone remembers the lightning bolot
stark sage
thanks doyn
thorn yarrow
welp just run with a paladin tank in raids for that sweet magic immunity gg
stark sage
👌
quartz pond
😄
chrome falcon
someone's going to have to explain to my stupid ass how this change adds up to THAT MUCH DR
solid mist
yeah that armor reduction seems nice, 13% pretty good. the stam seems... almost not even worth putting in
solid mist
ember arrow
stone crag
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ember arrow
its not even insignificant
stone crag
there's always something to complain about
astral crystal
well to be fair the buffs dont address some other issues people have brought up
but it feels good man
static pilot
in all fairness I'm not playing prot because I dislike the gameplay atm
thorn yarrow
can I complain that paladins get a better version of Revenge then we have?
chrome falcon
your logic: gets buffed
class must have nothing worth complaining about
astral crystal
should just make vanguard give us 100% str as armor :^)
static pilot
making it more survivable is great, but I'm probably not gonna come back until I see rotational changes
solid mist
you know what, if it makes some FUCKING ROCK THROWERS less deadly, then A+
quartz pond
u remember pelters??
static pilot
(that's coming from someone who did not complain just now)
daring marlin
Marok throws numbers out and they’re MIA
static pilot
oh God the pelters
daring marlin
Marok too
static pilot
in sanguine
thorn yarrow
Pelters are life
stone crag
¯_(ツ)_/¯
ember arrow
i remember seeing them in the distance
hot locust
Yeah I thought they just walked neatly in a line
hot locust
Yes.
thorn yarrow
nice
weak zephyr
🤔
fierce juniper
It's worth noting that I used 6300 for the K value, whereas the Mythic K value is 9311.4.
So in Mythic the DR gained is ~11.65%. Which is still pretty good.
Eh actually no one cares about non-mythic
ill just edit in 11.65 instead
dark junco
❤
thorn yarrow
Im a scrub I care QQ
stark sage
who's ready for prot to get overbuffed because of community perception
quartz pond
then revenge gets nerfed
daring marlin
FOTM inc
dark junco
I am too
thorn yarrow
Honestly I would 100% be ok with just IP being off GCD
stark sage
would be nice, but wont actually fix our survival
fierce juniper
Yeah, I just want IP off the GCD 😦
Honestly would rather have IP off the GCD + a big IP buff than those buffs we just got
dark junco
I'll take a new talent row at 120, with the following leggos talents: Wrists, pants, Belt.
stark sage
stacking IP to the moon
dark junco
GG
obsidian siren
just give the legion prot back ? 🤔
daring marlin
Amazing.
fierce juniper
Eh the cap isn't as big of a deal since our Rage gen doesn't really support stacking it super high
stone crag
at the end of legion it pretty much got to the moon
thorn yarrow
nah 90% was stupid as shit, @fierce juniper ya but it would still be better regardless
obsidian siren
gimme T19 and 90% mast
quartz pond
t19 was a good time to be alive
stark sage
venge weaving was 👌
dark junco
Seriously, I'd take nelfarion back + a brez. thanks ❤
astral crystal
are these hotfixes coming tuesday?
obsidian siren
venge weaving ❤
fierce juniper
@thorn yarrow Well I'm talking about buffing the actual absorb size, not what % of damage it removes. Removing 50% vs. 90% doesn't change how much total damage is removed.
obsidian siren
SS spamming in antorus ❤
dark junco
Someone's gonna be like: wtf
thorn yarrow
crap an Im a warrior cant handle that aggro ><
obsidian siren
Btww it might be a stupid question, what's that "K"vs "mythic K" marok was mentionning earlier?
thorn yarrow
someone poke him with a needle make sure he isnt a witch
fierce juniper
@obsidian siren K value for armor calculation.
Armor DR is calculated as such:
armor / (armor + K), where K is a constant.
obsidian siren
ah, i see
fierce juniper
Higher the K value the lower the DR that you get
Base: 6300
M/M+: 7100.1
Uldir-normal: 7736.4
Uldir-heroc: 8467.2
Uldir-mythic: 9311.4
obsidian siren
And the K depends on the difficulty of the content
fierce juniper
yep
ember arrow
so... marok, worth picking up prot again?
stone crag
haHAA
ember arrow
no sarcasm
dark junco
Yeah Marok mains prot now
ember arrow
i miss legion prot too much
fierce juniper
uhh, i mean, buffs don't make us better than a brewmaster or anything.
We'll still suffer from the issue where if you don't play extremely well you'll have a bad time.
Honestly it's kinda a design issue, rather than a numbers thing. Unless they buffed us insane amounts
which they wont
obsidian siren
TbH i would've prefered a larger health buff. Or rage gen buff. I mean, we do take comparatively low damage but it's useless with that DPS health pool
hushed cobalt
Revenge proc off gcd would be nice
uneven mason
How would that address any issue prot has?
dark junco
Nah I'd actually prefer a rework of our mastery, or the complete removal of it and a third shield block
With another charge of spell reflect
ember arrow
my problem is that you get rewarded too little for having to put more effort, what are your thoughts on this? In legion, i could play very well, do 1mil dps, hps and be 10-20th dmg taken. now it doesnt seem like thats a thing anymore @fierce juniper
uneven mason
More block also, wouldn't really address any issue
uneven mason
Our primary issue, is non blockable, non armor mitigatable damage
dark junco
like bleeds
sick sentinel
+40% next IP after a block.
dark junco
(OMg zUL)
uneven mason
all more HP does is increase the window that healers can react to incoming damage
woeful reef
Make physical ranged attacks (bow, rock) blockable.
obsidian siren
It's true that mastery can feel a bit meh
uneven mason
+40% IP after SR
dark junco
Our mastery is either : OP BLOCK I GOT OVERHEALED GG
obsidian siren
you're gonna crit block something you didn't need crit blocked, and vice cersa
dark junco
Or : Nope didn't block, top me
neon tangle
@uneven mason You say that like it basically isn't why BM is good
uneven mason
BrM?
neon tangle
yeah
uneven mason
BrM is good because it smooths all damage
fierce juniper
@ember arrow Yeah I mean that's why BRM is so good. You don't have to play BRM super well to be tanky, whereas Prot is really punishing. And even if you play Prot super well it's still not as good as a BRM that's "okay".
uneven mason
not just a niche portion of it
fierce juniper
fight dependent of course, but just talking about overall
neon tangle
Your healers being able to react to the damage you take is... kinda the only thing that matters
uneven mason
right
ember arrow
on bdk, feel the "oomph" after a big DS heal
uneven mason
except
ember arrow
is there a similar feeling on prot?
uneven mason
We're the mitigation tanks that have a huge hole in what we can mitigate on some fights
dark junco
Yeah, someone told me: If you're a good prot warrior and can survive, you'd be an even better BrM.
obsidian siren
i mean, you might even burn a big CD trying to block some tankbuster (hello zekbitch) that you dodn't need because helloooooooooo i'm crit block
real thunder
Any word on the upcoming ProtWarr buffs yet?
uneven mason
IF you can play prot at a competitive level you'd be a god on any other class more or less (if you can apply the same level of drive and mastery)
dark junco
just got a few % atm
chrome falcon
glad it's going
neon tangle
@real thunder check the pins
obsidian siren
@real thunder 
stuck oxide
@fierce juniper with the vanguard change... is it more worth it to go for higher ilvl trinket ( more strenght )
static pilot
@ember arrow in all fairness most tanks dont have anything quite as "oomph" as a big DS heal. Closest you get on prot is when your mastery kicks in and you critically block an Argus Scythe you were sure was going to kill you
dark junco
Nothing beside that
ember arrow
@static pilot nor argus scythes in this expansion sady 😦
static pilot
very true
ember arrow
#bringbackargus
neon tangle
@ember arrow I kinda feel it when I mitigate a bunch of a thrash
static pilot
and no way to guarantee a crit block either
obsidian siren
Another teeny annoying point (imo) is you need your co tank to be very clean as well
chrome falcon
Shatter on zekvoz, terrible thrash on fetid
neon tangle
just that feeling of "oh hey, that didn't hurt at all"
chrome falcon
Are similar to scythe
fierce juniper
@stuck oxide I haven't worked out how much it effects Strength's overall value/position in the stat priority, but I imagine it won't really change.
static pilot
hm... not really
uneven mason
If only they did something like...IP DR % scales with your armor %
static pilot
those you are expected to survive
going an extra scythe stack on Argus was different
tiny sphinx
if they change mastery, the 100% crit block meme build won't be possible anymore 😦
sick sentinel
😄
obsidian siren
yeah well they won't be for another year anyway
static pilot
people fully expect you to die past a certain number of stacks, proving them wrong felt great
sick sentinel
🙃
tiny sphinx
assuming the values even get that high at the end tier
static pilot
whereas surviving trash or shatter is just the baseline expectancy for tanks
dark junco
I'd rather get rid of the mastery and crit block, and get a new mastery thats always usefull and cool
obsidian siren
same here
ember arrow
@fierce juniper i remember on IV, strength being last in stat priority. Unless that changed, what was/is the reasoning behind this? since ilvl is is important for tanks now. is STR different caliber for warriors?
dark junco
I'd even skip the cool, and aim for ''always useful''
lost mauve
quick question because I can't find anything about it on the guides
obsidian siren
RNG in tanking is never enjoyable
lost mauve
obsidian siren
and crit block is definitely RNG
lost mauve
is this azerite trait useful at all for prot
tiny sphinx
i bet there are hundreds of mastery ideas floating around at blizzard, but someone, likely the one responsible for the go ahead, is holding back because "class lore/identity" reasons
uneven mason
I mean, if they made crit block more reliable (like gave us back Cataclysm "rollover" blocking)
ember arrow
i liked NF, change my mind
obsidian siren
pretty sure that helmet has a more interestign prot trait @lost mauve
static pilot
@ember arrow ever get hit by a kb or a stun while channeling it?
static pilot
@ember arrow or activate it and then immediately get a swirl under your feet that you had to move out of?
steel mauve
knockbacks didnt interrupt NF
ember arrow
on momentswhere u needed it, there wer no displacements
uneven mason
Kudaku you literally planned your use of NF
strong hill
nf was one of those things that seemed "meh" until you tanked mythic agrramar and could use it for the big hit and just laugh
ember arrow
and you shouldve timed it anyway
so that was a nice bit of extra decisionmaking
and no decisionmaking like azerite :^)
dark junco
^
obsidian siren
i liked it when you didn't have to transmog that shitty 1H to see your actual artifact weapon
chrome falcon
^^^^^^^
dark junco
¸
chrome falcon
THIS IS THE ABSOLUTE WORST
fierce juniper
@ember arrow It's per point.
i.e. 50 Haste is better than 50 Strength, but 100 Strength is better than 50 Haste.
ilvl is important because you get more stats, and having more stats is better
static pilot
agree with that Kindred, NS felt good in Antorus because they had mechanics that it actually excelled at
chrome falcon
I have to use a gross axe with my spikyboi or a gross flail with my tuskyboi
static pilot
most of the time it was a tiny duration CD with lackluster damage that got cancelled while moving
chrome falcon
Why the fuck is it like this blizzard
uneven mason
which is why rings is really the only slot we have "questions" about when it comes to gearing
ember arrow
so the STR itself, isnt good perse, but the fact that it always comes with ilvl, therefore granting more stats. Do i understand that right? @fierce juniper
obsidian siren
yeah, we had our niche on antorus/ToS of blocking a ridiculous amount of physical damage on some bosses
fierce juniper
Yeah pretty much levko
real thunder
Thanks for the pointing to the pins regarding the planned updates. They seem like solid, boring updates. Oh well.
ember arrow
thanks alot 👍
dark junco
I'm still using the BoE ring with a socket
dark junco
that 371+37+40 haste gg
stone crag
12m ip was the big one i've seen
static pilot
didnt you not pull the bulls because of the stomp?
ember arrow
shhh
uneven mason
it'd one shot DPS
ember arrow
let me have my moment
static pilot
fair enough ^^
neon tangle
as someone who played in cata, and then played now
obsidian siren
back when prot could actually pull some HPS
neon tangle
holy shit that's a lot of health
uneven mason
@neon tangle "He Lived"
lost mauve
does azerite veins stack?
ember arrow
btw
stone crag
yes
ember arrow
@lost mauve yes
lost mauve
nice thanks
uneven mason
Yeah Legion prot was meme level stupid strong for a lot of stuff
massive IPs + Critical blocks
stone crag
yet, it still had a negative perception
static pilot
tbf it had to be to keep up, all the tanks were bonkers at the end
uneven mason
I think I figured out at some point that a prot warrior using the right trinkets and having a scales capped IP up could eat a 300million raw hit
ember arrow
bringing back memories
static pilot
yup, remember the first time I had to take two foe breakers
was shitting myself, popping every cooldown I had
uneven mason
Yeah, eating that 2nd Foebraker
static pilot
then it hit for essentially nothing