i dont mean for protect, i mean for other dps chars
#protection
red heron
dusk locust
when i was dps last expansion pawn was combined with the simulationcraft addon. i imagine it's still the same deal. the default pawn strings weren't what you want to go by
dusk locust
and you want to re-sim yourself whenever you get a new item
the pawn string you get from simulationcraft is unique to you
past ledge
is the darkmoon deck still BIS trinket?
red heron
perfect @dusk locust thx
uneven mason
So the tooltips on Bnet are scaled as if you were level 1 for al ot of thme lo
So thats why the trinket looks like hot garbo (it is hot garbo)
but its more str than the other garbo I had
meanwhile the EMblem from the WQ I did this morning didn't TF
sick sentinel
How to deal with the second boss of Shrine?
uneven mason
but I got another 370 cloak TF from my weekly cache
Don't let him in the haste burble
dusk locust
interrupt rotation on the caster and kill the caster first
uneven mason
@sick sentinel Kite while he's enraged, tell your DPS to stand in the DR bubble or the haste bubble, don't let the bosses in the haste bubble
interrupt and kill the caster first
dusk locust
and try not to point the melee guy at your party when he's going to cleave. careful b/c it often overlaps with the runes on the ground
so you're tempted to stand on your team who are huddled in the rune
uneven mason
Well, you should always have fatty along the outside edge
steel mauve
Talents are scaled for level one too lol
steel mauve
Figured they woulda been able to fix their api for it by now lol
uneven mason
nah
BLizzards Dbase is a hot mess
Well actually
its cleaner than it has ever been
however
All the scaling is done by the program now
whichZAM basically has to figure out the math
steel mauve
Its not being scaled, m fiancee read one of her talents yesterday, siphon life and its like does 25 damage lol
uneven mason
and then write their own code to do
Oh you mean blizzard tooltips
small indie company
steel mauve
But it heals for 252% of it
uneven mason
makes sense.
steel mauve
Ya like talents in game are scaled down as well
uneven mason
Whelp back to work
Also, TFW the raid gives you shit for being Prot - Takes 3 Essence Shears in a row for the kill after the OT dies.
/flex
knotty ermine
So... been playing my rdruid arena alt quite a bit lately now that I've got it to max level. This morning I popped into a dungeon queue as a tank to get the ML quest done before reset. Long story short, I take back any negative thing I have said about current prot
chilly brook
I need to edit that video so I can link the +9 boss solo of the last boss for underrot
knotty ermine
Staying awake was the hardest part, good lawd what a shallow and boring spec.
old zephyr
@chilly brook a protwar?
old zephyr
yeah
old zephyr
so many victory rush to get in there
chilly brook
Yep
old zephyr
i'm waiting to see the crazy people d +14 as 4 dps or smth
like the 12min lower karaan thing in legion
chilly brook
I’m not sure how feasible that is now
A lot of mobs do group wide damage regardless of if you have aggro
And blood doesn’t have the group heal component of consumption
Granted a lot of bosses are avoidable damage but most will do group damage
modest thicket
Hey pals, one question... so for the prot hidden appearance nowadays I assume all I have to do is read the tablet and then check the cave every day? (I'm using this macro: /run local Q,P=IsQuestFlaggedCompleted,print; if Q(44311) then P(' Shield Available') elseif Q(44312) then P('Try Again Tomorrow') else P('Head to the cave and try your luck!') end)
One thing just seemed weird to me... Wasn't there a statue there near the gold piles? This one? http://i.imgur.com/lhdIvzk.jpg
Is it normal that it's gone? 🤔 Or is it a sign that I've missed something?
(Sorry if this is the wrong channel!)
signal plover
I don't think the statue is related to the prot hidden in any way
It's just the quest flags that matter.
modest thicket
I thought maybe it was related to the story quests, but I did finish all of that on this character.
Just seemed weird!
Nice name btw!
dusk locust
and not that you're depending on it, but for what it's worth the emote didn't show for me but i still got the hidden appearance
signal plover
Just fly to cave (I don't even think u have to fly there but maybe just to be safe)and run ur macro, if 44311 returns true go in n it should be there.
frosty wedge
you should hear a roar/see a message
when you fly to the cave
you don't have to check piles
signal plover
Ya that doesn't always happen tho
prisma crane
it's always in the same location as well, i cannot remember what it looks like but it's down the ramp as you enter, along the path as you go counterclockwise, one of the first groups of piles you'll see on your left
signal plover
There's been a few ppl here that got it without seeing emote
modest thicket
Hm not sure about that one Krotos, on a different character I got it near the pile, but on a youtube video someone got it somewhere else
modest thicket
Anyway, thanks pals I'll just be patient 😂 While I enjoy having chosen to main a prot warrior and alt a shaman 🤔
signal plover
I see u like to live DANGEROUSLY
modest thicket
🤣
wanton trout
So, I'm looking for some helpful hints on trying to improve how I run in heroic Uldir.. I am trying to find logs.. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mfKawzJFnkZLVxqc/
wild bolt
Hi @wanton trout - there is actually a Log-review channel just for this exact thing, I'd make sure to post your log there if you haven't already.
wanton trout
My fault
chrome falcon
Your blocked damage is low on fetid
You should having shield block/last stand up for every terrible thrash
wild bolt
No, no worries at all man. Just want to make sure the right people see it. 😄
wild bolt
Not sure honestly, I just noticed it earlier this week myself.
prisma night
are you looking for advice on a specific fight?
oblique tartan
I have a silly question. How much crit should I stack/avoid? Seeing it is our worst stat, would I gimp myself if no piece of equipment had crit (other than HoA)?
manic sentinel
Can anyone tell me how to use logs? Or where to find a guide on them. I looked at myself on Warcraftlogs.com, and I really don't even know what I'm looking at.
steel mauve
It wouldnt gimp you that bad if every piece had crit
prisma night
secondaries are pretty close even for our "worst" stat
dark junco
Still wondering whats gonna be out buffs in 8.1
wild bolt
Right.
steel mauve
Just because its our worst stat doesnt mean its bad, their extremely close together, just go for ilvl
prisma night
ilvl is king for the most part
wild bolt
Something has to be in 4th out of 4, but it's not like it's waaay behind.
chrome falcon
secondary stats don't matter, traits barely matter apart from DC, the only thing that matters is your ilvl
chilly brook
@wanton trout your damage done seems really low tbh
chrome falcon
welcome to BFA folks
wanton trout
Just on improving in general.. I Just feel like I can be doing something better
prisma night
low dmg could mean missed casts which could lead to rage issues
wild bolt
@wanton trout How are you tracking cd's (not just the big ones but things like SS, S&B procs, etc.)
rotund heart
[Threat] Quick question regarding threat, during raids I find my co-tank(BrewM) pulls threat off me on the pull somehow. Looking at logs I am doing ~3k dps more than he is. Don't see any MDs or Tricks going out either. Any ideas?
manic sentinel
Taunt on engage
wanton trout
I just smash it when I see it.. try to time it when the gcd is not messing with me
chilly brook
If he’s pulling aggro off of you at the start while dealing less damage than you then something is off
open bluff
is it a specific fight (eg mother, where threat is known to be fucky at times) or consistently?
prisma night
yeah aggro can hop pretty easy at start of fights. taunting helps stop that
steel mauve
@manic sentinel download the program, log in, in game go to system options and network turn on advanced combat logging, enter raid or mythic dungeon type /combatlog, in the warcraftlogs program click live log and type in a name, or wait till the run is over and click upload log and done
rotund heart
Mother is the main one I notice. I do taunt on pull.
chilly brook
He shouldn’t be pulling aggro
dusk locust
minor tangent, i was pulling threat off of my co-tank on mother, despite him taunting and going ham, and me pressing only a shield slam and thunder clap, then doing only white damage
dark junco
Got asked if I had higher ilvl gear yesterday, like
« why you’re wearing 340 azerite if you have a 355 »
- It has DC.
« We dont need you with haste or whatever, we need you with stamina »
-I know what I’m doing.
I could honestly feel the RL boiling
chilly brook
Only thing I can think of is he hits taunt
prisma night
maybe hes hitting taunt lol
open bluff
mother is known to not obey threat tables properly at times, and it's particularly noticeable with brms sometimes
chilly brook
Get a threat meter
prisma night
people say they dont hit taunt, but fat fingering buttons definitely happens
manic sentinel
@steel mauve Yeah I was more curious on what I'm looking at when I read them... do you know of an example of someone reviewing one or something?
dark junco
Mother bugged 4 times for us
signal plover
Mother agro is fucked
rotund heart
Looked at a log no taunt casts from him around the time. I'll keep an eye on it.
signal plover
Just taunt back.
rotund heart
Thank you!
dusk locust
yeah watching omen during mother on pull i'd do nothing, then skyrocket in threat after like one shield slam
prisma night
bug for azeroth
dark junco
Lemme relink you the logs from yesterday
wild bolt
@wanton trout I would totally recommend either WeakAuras or TellMeWhen and setting them up to notify you when your Shield Slam & Thunder Clap are usable, and also whenever you get a free Revenge proc (the buff name is "Revenge!" with the "!" included). That will help your DPS, which means better rage intake, then you can work on spending your rage effectively too.
dark junco
https://puu.sh/BCc0e/085d36d833.png
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a6WA8BVXkrHT7CFh/#fight=24&view=replay
chilly brook
Beta for Azeroth fam
dark junco
hahaha
wanton trout
@wild bolt I'll go see if I got weak auras / tell me when.. and look at the pins again if I imported things properly
dark junco
Mother aggro is bugged too, no clue why
chilly brook
Do one or the other not both
wild bolt
So MOTHER's aggro is definitely borked. We had one pull (for science!) where I stood in the corner doing nothing and she still came at me like a furious spider monkey instead of our DK - no tricks, no MD
dark junco
But I’d guess she shares her aggro tables with the adds
chilly brook
Otherwise you’re going redundant addons
wild bolt
^
steel mauve
wild bolt
Are you a tauren? Maybe she just wants da beef...
dark junco
Did you kill her this week?
chilly brook
Yes I did
dark junco
Mythic?
chilly brook
Oh nah
steel mauve
Here is a written guide on the basics of it, im pretty sure there are videos but i havent seen one in recent memory
manic sentinel
@steel mauve thats perfect, just needing something to start me off. thanks man
chilly brook
I’d love to be doing more than just taloc
dark junco
Cause I can see my aggro dropping, just from having dpses on her
signal plover
One of our other raids had the issue on heroic...we didn't see it on mythic until after we talked about it and then we ran into it this week.
chilly brook
But rn the guild needs to stop shitting the bed
signal plover
She also does the "attacking you" announce at random ass times.
sand egret
out of curiosity, how large are your raid sizes?
dark junco
20
chilly brook
20
signal plover
Had 24 for HC, cut down to 20 for mythic obv
dark junco
We could run 2x 20s tbh
delicate prism
Is there a recruitment discord?
wanton trout
Just an insane thought.. Would it be wise to take Devastator for the raid? I told them it wasn't sage since the rage button and damage increase would be nice..
dark junco
^
wanton trout
Thank you.. I needed that proof
wild bolt
I wouldnt recommend it .
sand egret
the reason I ask is because of how the game treats specs differently in terms of how their viewed by the boss
dark junco
With Avatar, Tclap spam makes DC uptime thru the roof.
dark junco
Who had a 66% DS uptime ?
wild bolt
Yeah, I want to use Deva too, but w/out any added Rage component, it just can't compete w/ BV
signal plover
69% or bust
chilly brook
One sec
signal plover
Have your raid lead come in here we can have a chat
About how not to use noxxic
And things
;)
We have a balsaq to yell at ppl
chilly brook
dark junco
thanks ❤
signal plover
Umm I was promised 76%
chilly brook
Np
chilly brook
I didn’t promise you 76
dark junco
Look its been like 3 weeks or so
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
dark junco
2% off isn’t that bad for memory
mellow bridge
Which ones should I use? I know the diff won't be big either way
sand egret
SPEEED
mellow bridge
yeah I think those are better too but I wanna make sure
cerulean tusk
Or hear me out, leech. Get all the leech '-*
sand egret
^ the dream
wanton trout
I think I need to redo my azerite talents
dark junco
@wanton trout So yeah link the 75% uptime griff linked. Thats a pretty good uptime that might allow you to have near or almost 20% DR on a 100% active tanking time. Pretty hard to beat and can say, without any fear, that devastator can’t beat that.
wild bolt
^^
signal plover
@wanton trout have you read through the pinned guide?
sand egret
or just tell them the entire prot discord looked at you in confusion when you posed the thought 😆
old zephyr
@wanton trout check the log chat
wanton trout
I am doing that now
chilly brook
I mean tbh your raid leader shouldn’t be telling you how to play your class in the first place
Maybe a class officer but certainly not the raid leader
cerulean tusk
What if your raidleader is your class officer?
dark junco
That might not be enough, blade, since some RL still thinks stamina over haste.
Happened to me yesterday.
chilly brook
Then they’re stupid and you should find a new group
dark junco
^
signal plover
From what I'm seeing you rly gotta go to that icy veins and start implementing what's talked about there @wanton trout
chilly brook
🙃
wanton trout
yeah
signal plover
That will get you where ya need to be
cerulean tusk
That's hateism towards raidleaders, just being the best they can be :c
signal plover
Then come here if u have some questions or if there's anything that's unclear
dark junco
If your class officer is giving you bad advice on your spec, either they don’t play it or they shouldn’t be a class officer
merry cave
Lol class officers are still a thing 😂 😂
dark junco
Yup
dark junco
When you’re casual-mythic, to bridge the gap thats how you do it
Have peeps that can give insight to any player that play the same classes
signal plover
We just buy guild tshirts and meme in discord
sand egret
it's a good system in theory, I've just seen it go horribly wrong haha
dark junco
Yep
sand egret
advice turns into micromanaging real fast
cerulean tusk
Btw, a bit more serious question. As I am building a leech set, mainly for funs. Does vert effect Leech healing, and seccond point: What else can be used to min-max selfsustain?
dark junco
Yeah its a possible issue: worst comes to worst I just point iut to class discords and tell them to change their things to parse higher
Victory rush
But like... thats a hard sacrifice
15% haste for a 30 sec 15% heal
(I wouldn’t advise that, but if you’re already going for giggles...)
cerulean tusk
Lootgods gives me leech, I answer.
cerulean tusk
Currently at 13%, can prob get up to 15% with Azerhite traits and weapon enchant. My goal: Something silly to use for funruns 😄
dark junco
Damn
wanton trout
Does Ablative plating stack?
old zephyr
about everything aside deafening crash and uldyr traits (matrix) stacks
at least for protwar
thin mortar
check the pins
wild bolt
@dark junco @chilly brook Ok...Have to ask. How in the blue hell are you guys keeping DS up that long? This is easily my BEST DS uptime pull ever and I barely squeaked out 52%:
chilly brook
Lots of tclapz
cerulean tusk
Avatar TC spam with enough haste, is my guess 😃
frosty wedge
deafening crash and all of the claps
sand egret
tclap + rage intake
chilly brook
I also don’t normally delay DS cast
frosty wedge
yeah it's up ebough I just cast it on CD
wild bolt
Right, you want every other one to line up w/ Avatar
chilly brook
I mean my uptime isn’t always that high
chilly brook
For example same fight on heroic this week was 55% uptime
wild bolt
Yeah but it looks like I'm normally in the mid-30's - 40's. Do you think being MT vs. OT makes that big a difference?
I mean I know less Rage per min as OT, but THAT much?
chilly brook
Not really
Most of the fights it’s fairly equal tanking time
The only time you’ll see diminished uptime would be like Taloc, Mother and G’huun
Oh and vectis
wild bolt
Well I was looking at Fetid, where we don't switch because I can AM all the Thrashes
chilly brook
Just simply because you sit there and wait for him at least once during the fight
chilly brook
I OT Fetid and on my 96 parse it was 63% uptime @wild bolt
sudden tapir
Do you tank swap on ghuun p2? Cause I'm taking a ton of damage.. Corrupting bite
hits me hard
digital arrow
hey @chilly brook are you able to time a single shield block to last you through two thrashes when u OT fetid?
chilly brook
No
digital arrow
damn
chilly brook
Not unless you use HR
Which you shouldn’t
But you should have some sort of mitigation up for every thrash
Whether that’s LS, SB or SW
sick sentinel
or ask externals from healers
digital arrow
i'll time SW when the other two are down
chilly brook
Well what I’m saying is you probably shouldn’t have to ask for one
sick sentinel
well you probably wont for heroic yet its nice to have a back up incase failing one block
Powerful haste.
digital arrow
i think there was one thrash where i had no mitigation left except IP and demo lol and it still hurt
sick sentinel
The more haste, the better DC becomes.
I shout for an external once every time we do fetid
The more ilvl I get, the less haste I get. :(
Because I always do a mistake/pop mitigation when he casts 3 times in a row or some shit
digital arrow
i expect i'll make that same mistake lol
sick sentinel
The only thing I hate about fetid is when he comes back from eating and his first attack is a thrash
astral crystal
anyone know how much % DR ~430 avoidance translates to?
sick sentinel
It is but its a mini heart attack
Like, I will have sb up but not enough rage or some shit
or I might panic and use SW
chilly brook
Yea what I really hate is when he runs off to eat but he gets the thrash alert before he does it so you pop SB
astral crystal
oops
sick sentinel
Exactly
astral crystal
@junior igloo halp, how much DR % is 430 avoidance? I can't find the formula
old zephyr
I main tank it and let the BDK heal that crap, easy
digital arrow
how about intercept him when he leaves and heroic leap back into position?
to gain some quick rage
junior igloo
ancient reef
where can i farm for any 340 DC aze item
junior igloo
~ 15 %
astral crystal
ty
old zephyr
Boralus shoulders
ancient reef
is that a wq
old zephyr
no dungeon
smoky acorn
freehold drops helm with dc i think.
gray parrot
anyone tanked heroic or mythic uldir yet?
shut summit
yes
golden condor
Did couple mythic here
hot locust
@shut summit Don't lie mythic is impossible for prot 😡
shut summit
xd
gray parrot
for those that have tanked Heroic, what is your ilvl?
im 355 but my gear is very sub-optimal for prot
ive tanked all of normal and will likely start heroic next week but im concerned lol
dusk locust
you'll be just fine. fetid and zul are the two to really look into the most
old zephyr
I've always overgeared it so i'll pass
gray parrot
WTB haste stat XD
hot locust
First week I was about 350ish so it'll work out.
dusk locust
you want a plan for dealing with zul's bleed, and if you're off-tanking fetid just know that you want to make sure shield block is up for every hit
gray parrot
Zek was the hardest in normal for me
i assume the additional heroic mechanics will make other bosses more difficult
cinder nova
Tank tips on wowhead say to leap into blood instead of using it to get distance on the aoe on taloc for cudgel
4hed
old zephyr
Zek is easy on prot you have all cds up for every combo
stoic parrot
I have no answered for zul, die every time, what do you guys do?
old zephyr
I get cr.
Or BoP but mostly cr
hot locust
don't use CDs until you are getting ready to run out.
spam a lot of IP
well, don't use SW
LS still use like normal for the most part.
also externals are wonderful on that fight.
feral crypt
is devastator viable? I loved booming voice in Legion but I hate plain devastate more
stoic parrot
IP feels so bad, and yeah I tend not to stay in for long because I’ve dropped in there (died with 3~5 secs on debuff) . Was a mess
grim prism
@feral crypt tldr no
chilly brook
Walked into heroic at like 348 is ez
grim prism
If youre pressing devastate more than like 1 in 8 globals youre doing something wrong
hot locust
or you're doing mythic zul and don't get to be the pad tank 😢
feral crypt
I just hate that it feels like "press this button to autoattack"
hot locust
I've never pressed devastate so much in my life.
chilly brook
Being the pad tank is great
astral crystal
i'd rather take my brutish, hideously mutated and gored troll lady out
hot locust
Our OS tank was crawg boy
hot locust
I'm just glad as soon as we push I get to TC my heart out again.
It's like being freed of a dreadful curse.
Press avatar
shield slam and then spam devastate sad as hell
chilly brook
Lemme guess? Told you can’t TC because they don’t want you pulling aggro
chilly brook
Lol
hot locust
Rogues gotta pump with 'em alive.
grim prism
Its not padding if it increases ST 😉
hot locust
It is if you can have someone else do more ST by like 10 fold instead.
look at that shit
damage to Zul only
sand egret
not nearly as devastating though.
chilly brook
Wtf?!?!??
hot locust
That's why you leave crawgs alive as long as possible.
chilly brook
Broken class :kappa
neon tangle
My guild can barely keep me alive with 3 on normal
uneven mason
Yell at your healers
neon tangle
So there’s that
uneven mason
I was shrill
grim prism
"How tf are you outdamaging a rogue on ST"
uneven mason
I was like YOU MOTHERFUCKERS DONT STOP HEALING ME
hot locust
Ahhh gotcha @grim prism
uneven mason
Got BOP'd immediately took him back
chilly brook
What is it about crawgs that let them do that? Just shuriken storm eviscerate?
hot locust
exactly that
hot locust
shuriken into 6pt evisc every time
sand egret
yeah, it's just big Evis spam
shut summit
yea stupid fight
final mist
You gotta be good to do DPS, that's why
shut summit
we actually had them blow up from not dying on time a pull or two, people controlling their shit too well
neon tangle
IP is for suckers on that fight
hot locust
More like you gotta abuse a stupid and broken fight
neon tangle
Revenge for days
hot locust
yeah that actually was a problem for us last phase a bunch too.
"smh my head"
really?
neon tangle
@hot locust to be fair us doing good damage is also roughly the same level of silliness
Combination of multiple talents + Azerite trait that makes one single ability OP
shut summit
😬
chilly brook
Ehhh it’s not even OP outside of burst aoe though tbh
hot locust
It's a combined problem with Zul though
if you are tanking the adds
you get a lot more rage than normal
much more avatar uptime.
chilly brook
True
Our actual single target abilities aren’t super impressive though either tbh
TC makes up ~30% of our single target damage
neon tangle
All two of them
hot locust
¯_(ツ)_/¯
chilly brook
So you touch TC we need major help
hot locust
I think our offensive toolkit plays fine.
chilly brook
It does
I’m just saying you can’t really do anything about TC without a nice remodel of everything else
brave oar
just got the shoulders from Mythrax, iron fortress or archive of the titans?
chilly brook
Do you have a piece with reorigination? @brave oar
If not then definitely archive for Uldir
old night
Heroic Mythrax wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was gonna be
got him down in about 10 pulls
we got heroic G'huun down to about 20% as well. Can't wait to get AotC on Monday (our next raid day)
wild atlas
Yea. It’s all self awareness and spacing
Ghuun isn’t so bad either. Last phase people just need to watch their feet and spacing again.
Also, I think a lot of people miss the fact that he takes 99% reduced damage when he’s doing the ceiling collapse
Just fuckin get to safe spots and chill while he is casting
uneven mason
^^^^
yelling at folks
about "didn't you ever do Magtheridon"
and then I realized
that half the raid, was probably in diapers when Magtheridon was a boss.
brave oar
@chilly brook no dont have, this is my first piece
chilly brook
Then yea for Uldir specifically you'll want to use the reorigination trait
uneven mason
Oh yeah
tiny sphinx
at least bosses today don't get parry hasted unlike magtheridon
uneven mason
+++ Got a DC chestpiece (340 tho), can wear my 385/370 helm shoulders
bonus
Magtheridon with todays class mechanics would be a pretty easy boss
tiny sphinx
yes of course, we have it much easier, taunt actually having range being a big one
uneven mason
ALthough, getting 5 people to co-ordinate clicking at the same time
wild bolt
Mmhm
uneven mason
Mag was taunt immune
wild bolt
I'm with you man. I was the one who had to RL that shitshow.
uneven mason
you still needed 5 tanks for him, cause the casters luls
wild bolt
Right
uneven mason
Yeah me too >D
tiny sphinx
mag and brutallus was a dick kicker
wild bolt
(once you didn't have to cycle anymore)
uneven mason
Brutallus was a whole other level of douche
I mean I mostly just used arms/Fury warriors
to tank the adds
I think I had a feral druid in there once but OOMing my healers wasn't worth the "flexibility"
wild bolt
Yeah I was a feral druid at the time. Never had any problems ooming heals tough. But I wasn't on the boss - I was capt. clicky.
uneven mason
yeah
Feral tanks, wasn't my cup of tea until they fixed druid gear around T6
"Oh look your tanking set has more int on it than agility or str, sounds legit, go resto"
gray wolf
any faith in prot being decent in 8.1?
gray wolf
true now, the prejuidices against us is just staggering at this point
can't get accepted into anything atm
not even normal
uldir
grim prism
That I have no idea about
gray wolf
¯_(ツ)_/¯
grim prism
Wow kids love to groupthonk
I think theyd have to nerf BDK at the same time to change community perception in a major way tbqh
But perception and performance are two different things to begin with
So /shrug indeed
marble pelican
good afternoon kids...any rage quitting today?
marble pelican
Yeah I've been debating a Paladin for a while now.
I have a lvl 90 but alliance side /yuck
it might be better just to boost it...spend the 60$ lol
frosty wedge
lol
marble pelican
yeah I did a rogue
mellow bridge
The visuals and power are great for Paladin but the playstyle is so boring idk
frosty wedge
pally is alright, but there are way more fun tanks
bdk and monk are super fun
and I'm holding out hope that this game comes out of beta with 8.1
marble pelican
what is the best tank, I like my Warrior but after running fury last night with a Pally tank I realized, I get beat up alot
its the crusader shield lol
that's what I like 😃
weary notch
no changes to prot in toady's PTR push
solid mist
define "best"
marble pelican
i'm not a bad player, not the best but not bad, I just want the best class for tanking, I love it,
frosty wedge
depends on what you want to do, and what your skill ceiling is/how much of a try hard you want to be, lol
weary notch
right now BDK, Pally and Monk are super strong in M+. Monk is probably strongest in Raid
marble pelican
well I've done well at the Prot so far, and this the first time I've played a prot warrior
frosty wedge
well if you like prot, run prot
the tanks are all close
prot is just more difficult for very little pay off
weary notch
all the tanks are close assuming perfect play
warrior is the hardest to play perfectly. Monk is essentially impossible to screw up by comparison
cunning siren
i could gear my prot if i actually got invited to m 0s with it 😱
solid mist
here's what I do. make M0 and M+'s with description as "Prot war tank, shamans and spriests welcome" and I get a full group in like 10 seconds
had 3 shammy + 1 spriest group once.
chrome harbor
the cool kids table
solid mist
bingo
chrome harbor
enh shamans actually pretty good from what ive seen, i guess its just ele thats rough?
marble pelican
I play this game for the chicks, so pally with blond hair of course
marble pelican
lol
I've never played a tank as a main before alt here and there but never as a main. I really enjoy it, but i'm that guy I want to be the best, so its about what class works the best for a tank considering gear is equal.
frosty wedge
then right now, with the game in it's current state, monk or BDK
marble pelican
I have a 100 dk, but again alliance lol
frosty wedge
gross
marble pelican
right
solid mist
same
frosty wedge
I'm actually trasmogged into the new pvp/warfront sets on my warr and monk atm
solid mist
aoe stun. lots of dps
open bluff
not so much of an increase as it is reverting the cost back to what it was originally
neon tangle
ahh, I must have missed the first update
marble pelican
I don't disagree lol. but if i'm going to play a pally it will be horde which leaves Blood Elves....so DK it might be
neon tangle
Could always play a tauren
marble pelican
yeah, idk, i'm just too impatient I love my prot warrior but I love him as fury lol
frosty wedge
blood elf makes sense kinda, but yeah tauren does not
frosty wedge
but I always play tauren
neon tangle
Tauren makes as much sense to me as anything, they worship things, those things give them powa
frosty wedge
yeah but I mean, so were pagans before the crusades....
neon tangle
I mean, I don't really see much of a difference between druid and pally worshipers, seems more like a difference in what they worship
frosty wedge
^
neon tangle
taurens worshiping the sun == get "light" powers
worship the earth, get earth powers
limber tulip
worship warriors what do you get
neon tangle
a beard
neon tangle
@dark junco Kiteadin
dark junco
^
marble pelican
just as a prot warrior give me a shield toss i'll be happy 😃
neon tangle
"brb, running all the way back to the entrance"
dark junco
Change heroic throw on prot
dark junco
Toss shield, and give it bonus damage for block rating
marble pelican
I like the way you think lol
neon tangle
Toss your shield, make you intercept to go pick it back up
frosty wedge
just give me glad stance back
neon tangle
brings back banners
frosty wedge
mocking banner plz
dark junco
@neon tangle 💯
marble pelican
tanks get toss a gnome or goblin feature!
frosty wedge
they can't give us back banners, becaus ethen monks would know their statue is a rip off
lol
neon tangle
I'm kinda sad that I only had banners during WOTLK
where I had very little use for them
frosty wedge
lol
marble pelican
how great would that be? get the count down 3, 2, 1 as a tank you launch a Gnome Warlock named Gizdemo at mother to start the fight....oh yeah
neon tangle
no changes yet
marble pelican
nope
neon tangle
I like how there are more void elves than pandas in the world
uneven mason
Well, Panda have a screwing problem, voidelves are hentai characters...do the math
frosty wedge
wow, DH getting warrior style absorbs for dealing damage based on some traits
and i think it's actually around the same as my IP
Revel in Pain When Fiery Brand expires on your primary target, you gain a shield that absorbs up to 1896322756 damage for 15 sec, based on your damage dealt to them while Fiery Brand was active.
err
marble pelican
so warriors get nothing but blood dks who arguably are top of the food chain, get one of our abilities in a sense?
ember arrow
no no
marble pelican
10-4 didn't realize
uneven mason
but yeah its a new trait.
ember arrow
@marble pelican in legion, after VB expired, you gained ashield equal to the dmg your blood plague dealt
so it is similar to the aforementioned dh trait
ember arrow
was fixed
uneven mason
oh lol
grim prism
PTR
ember arrow
ye it was possible for a while
uneven mason
yeah professional level BDK was the ones who could get like 40m absorbs
tank that King Yimmerpants
Folks think BDK are meta now, the little tricks that were around in Legion just were sickening
uneven mason
heh
uneven mason
omnomnom
sand egret
best healer in the game
uneven mason
Some monks staggering off 40m on KennyG
+++
So, about them prot changes on the PTR
uneven mason
Sure looks like some serious love.
ember arrow
also me
marble pelican
good to know
sand egret
if they were getting serious love, it certainly wouldn't be in with everyone else's changes. they'd probably have their own build
ember arrow
E
limber tulip
E
ember arrow
enlightening conversation
sick sentinel
Are the ptr changes posted anywhere?
astral crystal
probably wont be any
this particular push seems like a basic bitch azerite change
sick sentinel
If it’s basic bitch do I get an Azerite spice trait?
sand egret
most of the changes are just in line what they posted a bit before, tbh. Just now the string-sides are getting updated
sick sentinel
cries in frappe
mellow bridge
Just become tanky dds lul
neon tangle
naw, lets buffy pallies more
uneven mason
Summary of protection changes on the PTR so far - "Your worst trait is now a 9% smaller turd, much Love, Ion"
Also you boys want to know the true secret to surviving Zul?
60% Increased healing
uneven mason
I know, its just tooltip corrections
hot locust
all of those for the most part are just updates from live to PTR
uneven mason
is all that showed up thus far
sick sentinel
I miss parryhaste tbh.
tiny sphinx
I love when priests give me the wings of Sanguinius
and no you do not miss parry hasting, you think you do but you don't
sick sentinel
nah I do. Just to hear more tank crying.
young iris
This effect occurred both for characters and mobs, including most bosses. Not sure why you would miss it.
tiny sphinx
"You face not Prince Malchezaar alone, but the parry hasted bullshit he commands!"
sonic tinsel
hey all, were progressing through heroic, but our prot warrior is having survivability issues, is this just the meme of the expansion or are there some glaring issues you guys see in our logs/his gearing that you see?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XbC7Bwz4jYADrfNT/#fight=last
the fights in question are fetid and Zul
final mist
His enchants and gems are all over the place.
Vers gems and enchants with a Mastery weapon enchant?
molten radish
Zuul slaps prot warriors phase 2
final mist
Disc is a horrible trinket, he really should use something else unless it's literally all he has.
The damage is not worth it at all, and the only defensive gain is the static strength on it.
elfin apex
@sonic tinsel 11% uptime on IP?
final mist
IP uptime doesn't matter.
twilit ferry
He's barely using active mitigation, used shield wall on the first stack of p2 dot, used last stand once, somehow has melee as highest damage on zul
final mist
His Shield Block usage, however, is abysmal.
sand egret
^
molten radish
How many stacks of rupturing blood is he taking?
final mist
Shield Block is what'll keep him alive the best (between IP and SB) over a 3:30 fight, he cast it 5 times.
frosty wedge
also that
twilit ferry
He didn't use IP once with the dot, nor shield block, or anything
elfin apex
only used shield block 5 times
final mist
He took 50 melees over the entire fight, and had SB up for 5 of them.
sand egret
yeah might as well not be using it at that point
final mist
He'd have better success as a BRM if he wants to play passively.
sand egret
def a starting point is to see if they got a way to track it, to improve their uptime
frosty wedge
yeah, I think the answer here is that he's either not trying, or is bad
twilit ferry
did he use avatar once?
sand egret
Unless it's engrained in your muscle memory, it doesn't last long enough so you (it definitely happened to me learning Prot) have moments where you're just naked to hits without realizing it
elfin apex
his active is like 86%
final mist
He's not actually casting abilities. There are several points where he just don't cast anything for seconds at a time.
frosty wedge
also - you may want to talk to your healers about CD rotation/usage
sand egret
Maybe they're lagging? or maybe just decision paralysis
frosty wedge
a few times I'm seeing shield wall, iron bark and pain suppression all overlapping
final mist
There's a difference between lagging and just not casting anything for multiple lengths of time.
sand egret
yeah, it was a stretch. lol
final mist
If he learns to play, healers won't feel the need to randomly cast externals on him.
frosty wedge
he used avatr twice, the first time being over 2 minute sinto the fight
final mist
Those externals on him are kneejerk reactions to him just not doing anything at all.
sonic tinsel
This is also super super helpful
sand egret
yeah I'm with Sal, sounds like its a knock-on effect of not managing his damage intake better (SB usage)
elfin apex
why is the rogue so low?
sonic tinsel
You're all nailing issues we're questioning ourselves lol.
final mist
@sonic tinsel I see two things here:
- He either doesn't care how he plays, and how it affects your team, or he's just so bad that he doesn't understand how his class works. Neither bodes well.
- He doesn't care enough to fix his own problems, otherwise he'd be looking at available sources of information to fix it himself.
I can't tell how his personality is, but what I gather from this is that he just doesn't care how badly his play is effecting himself and your raid group.
solid mist
5 casts of shield block 😮
frosty wedge
long story short, you're probably better off recruiting a tank
sand egret
it didn't take all of these warriors long to spot 5 casts of SB as a bad thing....so...
sonic tinsel
He's leveling a brew in the meantime
final mist
Literally first thing I looked at was SB, since it's so important.
BRM won't be any better if he's just not casting anything.
solid mist
when you all area saying "he's going long stretches of time w/o casting" how are you looking at that/figuring that out?
steel mauve
honestly youll probably get the same results with a differnet class
solid mist
trying to get better and tinkering with logs
steel mauve
it just will be less noticeable (probably not by a lot) with a class that doesnt fuck you over any mistake
frosty wedge
@solid mist his active tie is 86%
final mist
He dies at 2:57 and his last cast is ~10 seconds before.
frosty wedge
time*
final mist
There are other points where he doesn't cast any ability for up to 5 seconds at a time.
BRM won't solve that, it's just bad play.
He'll die on a BRM as well if he doesn't use the brews.
sand egret
ISB falling off, etc
solid mist
am I blind... or did he not use demo shout at all?
sand egret
4 times on Fetid, and 3 on Zul it looks like
steel mauve
to see uptime on demo shout you need to go to casts
solid mist
yup ty
sand egret
sand egret
lol take a breather Sal
steel mauve
7% on demo shout, even with out a DC is extremely low
sand egret
Ignore that Pain
steel mauve
uh wtf
final mist
This is the kind of player that gives Prot a bad name, by the way
thin mortar
holy mother of devastate!
steel mauve
ya... just looked at one of our zul wipes that was a minute longer and i hit a third of the devestates, and even thats about too many
molten radish
Well hold on
sand egret
As Bon Jovi put it best: "You posted the logs, but he's to blame. He gives Prot a bad name" guitar solo
molten radish
Is he tanking the add?
solid mist
oof
sonic tinsel
He's tanking crusher
frosty wedge
always block up
final mist
He had 2 and died because he's not doing anything to try and stay alive
3 tanking won't fix one of the tanks being dead weight
steel mauve
im thinking about bringing up 3 tanking zul this weekend
molten radish
Oh yeah that's bad
sonic tinsel
Ya hes at 2 stacks and were like pumping heals into him
molten radish
He can take two no prob
molten radish
If it's 4 he'll get clapped
sonic tinsel
That's our mythrax attempts
sonic tinsel
Idk I mean those wipes are short but idk what warriors do personally
grim prism
Also
sonic tinsel
Mythrax not mythic
final mist
You bring rogues and n one is allowed to touch them in mythic
frosty wedge
hahaha
steel mauve
he should honestly be using like a handful of devs a minute, not 2 dozen of em
sand egret
honest question....this person like...doesn't think that Devastate generates rage or anything....right?
final mist
He has no idea how any bit of the spec works.
solid mist
mythrax he can spell refelct each sheer right? and that does reduce that damage right?
steel mauve
thats a huge waste of a gcd
final mist
I can tell that from logs.
sand egret
thinking outside the box here
final mist
Whoops, caps lock
sand egret
haha Sal is REAL not happy with this Prot guy
sick sentinel
those devastates smh...
solid mist
spell reflect would show up under both the casts and debuffs section right?
prisma crane
well the issue is that it helps to perpetuate the meme of how we're "bad"
sick sentinel
I'd get no more than 5 if that much on raid bosses.
prisma crane
Sal's said nothing about the guy himself, just his play and seeming lack of disrespect for the team with how bad his play actually is
steel mauve
casts and buffs
solid mist
err yeah buffs that's what I meant
errant dagger
Unsubbed until I see the Prot Warri changes
solid mist
shoudl be using that on Mythrax right????? 😮
molten radish
Really 5 devastates? Not using the proc of refreshing slam?
sick sentinel
often GCD better used on something else.
molten radish
I don't see the problem with using devastate. Obviously not as much as him tho
sick sentinel
either IP, free revenge, or tclap (more importantly), or SS itself.
errant dagger
I wonder when the allied races will be free to play for both fractions cause I am getting kinda sad
grim prism
@errant dagger see you in a few months then
sick sentinel
smh
abstract surge
hey my dudes, what socket should i put in my weapon
stable elm
Such players must be kicked from raid right away, no point to discuss anything with him, recruit a new tank
sick sentinel
grim prism
Also spell reflect is off-GCD
Im hoping i just misread something above
But people seem to keep saying all our defensives are on-global when it's literally just IP and demo
(Rallying cry doesnt count lel)
signal plover
Omg how did I miss this log analysis holy shit
sick sentinel
yeh.
stable elm
I am about devastate spammer
frosty wedge
I so rearely have time to hit that button
solid mist
Sal left to go punch a wall for a while I think
sick sentinel
same Mike
stable elm
Warriors do not punch walls, they slam it
sonic tinsel
For real though meme and rage aside I appreciate the feedback. We're basically lost in trying to coach him cause we don't know what he can do better
steel mauve
the answer is every thing
solid mist
read IcyVeins prot guide
sand egret
Well if by trying to coach him you're saying "actually use your abilities" and he doesn't...then I dunno...check his pulse
hushed cobalt
Awkward thinking here for Fetid as offtank; does SB cover 2 thrashes? If not, would heavy repercussions extend to cover 2?
steel mauve
no and no
its literally never worth taking HR
and his thrash can be delayed by literally any other ability, so the second HR doesnt cover a second thrash its worthless
hushed cobalt
Ah going to offtank for alt raid and thought of a very different talent setup
steel mauve
you can already have block up for every thrash regardless
using last stand bolster
you only need CD's personal and externals for sub 50%
shield block/IP/demo shout is easily enough to survive thrash
for the first 50%
sonic tinsel
Rofl were definitely about giving people improvement opportunities and some people will be bad. But I don't think any of this is unfixable
He probably just hasn't taken the changes in bfa into account
sand egret
naw, it may sting to hear but it's not a complex problem at its core haha. He just literally needs to learn to play better
steel mauve
its not unfixable, its all just slow play, the only thing that matters is if hes willing to fix it, thats the biggest issue
hushed cobalt
Is never surrender like repercussions in that its never used? My thinking says after a thrash use IP for the boost
sand egret
but totally fixable, if they're willing
steel mauve
NEVER take off bolster
sonic tinsel
Yeah he's willing I just think everyoke didn't know where to start
sand egret
lol Bolster may as well be baseline
steel mauve
youll need last stand bolster to block a thrash
sand egret
that shit ain't moving from my talent choice
hushed cobalt
1 talent setup forever and ever
steel mauve
thats the shit part of it
we really arent flexible
i personally dont like it, i would like choices, but our set up is so good and works well together
sand egret
@sonic tinsel yeah I'd start with doing some mythics and just working on SB uptime and using CDs more logically on trash pulls. Build that muscle memory
steel mauve
the only talent i swap is storm bolt and rumbling earth
hushed cobalt
Punish if raid is mostly range?
steel mauve
most of the time ITF wins, and the more haste you get the better itf actually gets, but i cant tell you if there is never a situation to take ITF
maybe if you cant keept up like 2-3 stacks permanently, but idk the answer to that, but i would assume ITF wins regardless
sand egret
(and the more haste just makes the spec feel smoother)
sick sentinel
rumbling/storm bolt, bounding stride/thunder clap range here.
everything else stays.
sick sentinel
long as you're focusing haste in gear, ITF is always good and invaluable. just even 1-2 seconds off or more depending on BL/proccs for SB recharge CD way better than punish. Not to mention other GCD/cd benefits, like DC Demo Shout uptime.
molten radish
Too high? Wondering what I need to fix? I feel like I'm not using deafening crash right.
grim prism
You arent
molten radish
Yeah I have dc
solid mist
do people use any WA or addon to prevent this scenario: SB/TC are going to come off cooldown faster than the GCD, so devastate would be wrong to cast in that moment right? and instead just wait? Or is the right question just to hit the button unless those things are already off cooldown
sick sentinel
yeah, too high. more IP, more tclap. every other GCD should be tclap during avatar. Usually only other ability I use in avatar besides tclap is SS or IP.
grim prism
You should be casting demo and avatar at a 2:1 ratio
Uptime aside, the casts alone say you arent doing it right
steel mauve
im assuming that was like a 5 or 6 minute fight, thats a ton of missed avatars
sick sentinel
yah
grim prism
@solid mist just hit the button
steel mauve
3 minutes of avatar cd, probably could have used at least 2 more
solid mist
k
steel mauve
mythic?
molten radish
Nah heroic
steel mauve
then it doesnt change
with booming voice (which you should have) demo shout also gives a dps increase, so even if you arent tanking, you do more dmg with it
grim prism
Friendly reminder that posting screenshots of logs is borderline useless if you dont already have a clear idea of what is and isnt important
Just link them and people can be way more helpful
eternal solstice
IS there any situation as of late to hold onto Demo for pure defensive purpose?
steel mauve
i havent found one
grim prism
Not sure why you'd want to, unless youre finding its not up when you need it at the exact same point in a fight on multiple pulls
dusk locust
do you demo when you're not active tank?
steel mauve
yes
dusk locust
even if you know it'll run out right before you taunt
steel mauve
i demo on cd, thats 15% damage
dusk locust
you use it as a dps cd then
steel mauve
its like a 20 second cd
eternal solstice
That's what I'm saying I'm 7/8H I saved it a couple times for an essence shear on mythrax a couple times. I probably don't need to
grim prism
muh tank dps is not a defensive purpose
steel mauve
25 second or so
dusk locust
isn't that potentially 20 seconds of tanking the boss
eternal solstice
Feels bad kind of popping it off the bat I guess
steel mauve
you dont need it on essence shear just spell reflect every one
eternal solstice
with prepot
grim prism
@eternal solstice if you dont think you need to, then try without it and see what happens