and tuning the IP shield differently
#protection
ornate sky
brazen void
Thunderclap itself is fine. It's unstoppable force that is nuts
left bloom
But vengeance is fine?
sick sentinel
i am consistantly having other tanks pulling threat off me, its not the ammount of damage we do but the threat we generate IMO
brazen void
Well, let's sum up again what is actually troublesome with warriors atm :p
- Survivability is unforgiving on mistakes
- Rotation is clunky
?
kind urchin
I'd prefer they get rid of ignore pain as an ability and turn our mastery into Mastery: Ignore Pain. Reducing damage taken by x% based on mastery.
vital wren
AoE damage, cool ....... how about surviving constant OVERPOWERING hits for a long period of time?
junior igloo
@brazen void
Talents
sick sentinel
Threat is trash
vital wren
At that point, I feel using IP is useless xD
tight tree
Vengeance is worse than warrior in raids. Spikey. But gods in m+ due to utility.
brazen void
- Almost no actual choices on talents.
ornate sky
rotation is fine outside of the IP interaction
ornate sky
if you're asking them to focus on something its surely IP & talents
tight tree
And vengeance is VERY fun to play, fast and fluid, that is important.
sick sentinel
intevene being on the GCD is really clunky
junior igloo
The fix to talents is to remove the synergy.
UF, BV, and Bolster need to be on the same row (and rebalanced a bit obviously).
That way you always have exactly 1 of your cooldowns buffed by a talent (rather than 0-3) and Anger Management can be tuned with that in mind.
left bloom
With our current defensive toolkit we 100% need AM just to be able to fill block downtime with last stand and shield wall. Feels pretty bad
vital wren
I cant imagine not having Booming voice, bolster, anger management and going full offensive with demo+avatar+TC (prolonging demo shout) to be honest
ornate sky
also baseline shockwave cd reduction ffs, we've had that since the spell was a thing
junior igloo
You can't imagine because the class is currently tuned around that
vital wren
Without this synergy it would be utter s**t in my eyes
Idd
Any idea where Indomitable would be useful?
junior igloo
If you fix that, you can buff the baseline class and have more options to achieve similar results
vital wren
Nobrain talent
junior igloo
Indomitable is fine and it is well balanced against a 2 minute Bolster.
But because of Anger Management, it is instead competing against 1 minute Bolster which is twice as strong
brazen void
Ugh, talk about last-week-ptr design problems
tight tree
I love how you avatar is bench @junior igloo
ornate sky
AM for arms and protection feels 100% mandatory
vital wren
You spend rage all the time so AM is mandatory yes
tight tree
Just to be prepared, I assume that fixes will be most underwhelming ever. Like 5% DR overall slapped on us. Done.
brazen void
Which may actually work for viability, if not for the feel (which is about half of the problem imo)
vagrant cape
Hey, in Legion prot pally had a legendary ring that granted 4% dr. I'll happily take a free pally legendary thank you very much.
brazen void
vengeance was like that during legion. Ultimately what shifted from from their weird position of spiky and too punishing on errors was a passive EHP buff
vital wren
I'm okay with prot warr having a good dps for M+, that's super cool with me ... But I feel that we lack the defensive choices for tanking singletarget bosses that hit like a truck (Give us a choice for tanking bosses - talent it)
brazen void
with part of it interacting with their self heals
but they played clunkily across the whole expansion because Soul Cleave was shit, not unlike how IP is in a weird position now
vital wren
If they made the changes that would make u able to talent some singletarget defensive value, how would you force this on ppl in M+ .... so complicated to pull off any changes
brazen void
Such burden is to be embraced!
signal plover
I'm just wondering if they will touch SB duration/CD balance at all
junior igloo
Yeah, passive EHP buff would be a bandaid, but since they decided to push it back to a patch, I hope they will focus on the underlying issues (since the EHP increase could have been done in a hotfix).
The talents are the biggest issue in my eyes.
Some change to IP (such as the passive version reducing damage based on rage) would be pretty nice, maybe they will come up with something decent there
astral crystal
there's also a bandaid fix coming soon apparently
junior igloo
Doubt that, @signal plover
We are one of the classes with intentionally low uptime on basic mitigation (just like paladins and demon hunters).
That's not necessarily bad, as long as it's handled correctly and balanced by better cooldowns etc.
sick sentinel
the issue with having IP decrese damage taken with rage is you would be better of sitting on 100% rage
brazen void
A modal where you reduce rage income to get passive dr would make more sense. And I can see that work, but I don't know if I like it.
sick sentinel
it would be ok to have SB gaps if we had mitigation outside of that
junior igloo
Well of course, it would presumably deplete by reducing damage or automatically over time.
(Shield Block doesn't need a cost in this scenario, it is limited by a cooldown anyway, and Revenge could either be changed a bit or be the damage vs. mitigation option)
signal plover
@junior igloo agreed, and on tank swap bosses it's not really an issue, but a small tweak would go a long way to more predictable smoothing on bosses like mother and in m+ where we are 100% active. I doubt they'll mess with that
Im guessing more changes to IP will be the route they take.
brisk flax
are the reps cross faction for the allied races?
brazen void
Think so
brisk flax
so like if i transfer a toon across faction that has the reps will it have the opposite rep?
signal plover
Doubt they have any ideas for talents that will be game changers in 8.1
brazen void
yes, definitely
signal plover
I think u have to do the war campaign quests still
brisk flax
and what about if i make a toon alliance will i just be able to do the allied race quest?
brazen void
You keep the converted reps for all of bfa. You do lose the campaigns tho.
brisk flax
cause i have a buddy that plays Alliance i might make a toon but i definitely want to be a Dark Iron Dwarf if i go that way
cause at least it is the least lame of the Alliance races XD
brazen void
7th legion pairs with... honorbound? You'll still have to do the kul tiras quest chain.
brazen void
well, the quest chains will be your grind.
Since you'll be starting them already with the rep at like revered
astral crystal
the campaign quests are pretty quick
brisk flax
quest chain is whatever, i can handle that it is less grindy then actually grinding rep XD
brazen void
It may be a glitch, but when I changed my draenei to nightborne I had the option on the race change to pick any of the allied races(I only unlocked nightborne, but had the reps for all three). I didn't test if i could go all the way.
So...either bonus or don't get your hopes up for a moment :p
vital wren
Or maybe a visual bug indeed
Did anyone here race change to dark iron dwarf because of the physical dmg reduction?
- Strength buff for armor
brazen void
I considered it when I was still playing alliance
the purge is really nice too
esp with warrior, that usually just takes those...
they also look fucking metal XD
signal plover
DI is awesome
There's a couple packs in Uldir and m+ where u get high stacks of removeable debuffs and can spike to like 60-80k aoe when u pop avatar demo after
vagrant cape
I had a dream last night that I found a shield upgrade... I may need help
upbeat kernel
Besides DI, what race is best for Alliance Prot and why?
vagrant cape
Gnome. More haste, the ability to remove roots, and 5 extra rage
sick sentinel
Human racial
upbeat kernel
Focusing on pvp and m+
vagrant cape
Also 1% arcane resistance is nice since magic damage is so painful
Prot in PvP? There's your first mistake
upbeat kernel
Not necessarily prot for pvp
vagrant cape
It still gives you a snare removal, it's no human racial, but I don't think gnome racial shares a CD with medallion
vagrant cape
D:
vagrant cape
I agree
signal plover
Gg KR keys
vagrant cape
Good thing king's rest has nothing I want anyway :D
upbeat kernel
What’s the affixes?
vagrant cape
Except those godly bandages of course Kappa
vagrant cape
What's the last affix after tyrannical raging infested?
Trash is gonna feel so easy after this week though
I'll take raging over fortified any week
ember arrow
Necrotic
vagrant cape
D:
tight tree
KR has offspec sword
vagrant cape
Make it stop
vagrant cape
Blizz has to keep him subbed somehow
I'm so excited for Tuesday. Totally gonna get 385 DC shoulders and vectis is gonna finally give me that vector deflector.
hearty portal
Btw @tight tree I saw that you stated that Prot is better then Vengeance in raids. I have a hard time believing when warriors and druids are still unable to tank Fettid on Mythic while DHs can 😛
hearty portal
But i guess we work on any other boss! Just not the one that kills us if we dont have Last stand and shield wall up
sick sentinel
Hope that in 8.1 every tank but us gets hit by the nerf-bat
tight tree
@hearty portal Well on Fetid DH have upper hand because of huge health and ability to spirit bomb after every trash
hearty portal
No, buff Guardians and warriors
tight tree
That is very niche
valid gorge
nerfing everyone else is not a solution for prot problems
hearty portal
Indeed, I think that all the tank classes except for Guardian and Prot is in a good place.
valid gorge
if you make all the other tanks 5 % worse prot representation will not even go up
since we have fundamental issues that will not go away
hearty portal
?
grim prism
Oh boy I see we are still having the same conversation we've been having since prepatch
ancient reef
sgnome racial doesnt share cd with pvp trinket
sick sentinel
nevermind
vagrant cape
After the reinforced plating buff, idk about y'all, but I'm gonna be riding my two reinforced platings to the top of raider.io 😎
hearty portal
great its going to go from infinitely bad to infinitely bad
vagrant cape
The traits were still close enough that you'd take a 370 reinforced plating over a 355 brace
grim prism
If by "infinitely bad" you mean "worth taking over literally every generic trait" then sure
hearty portal
I meant in regards of the other prot traits
vagrant cape
@@hearty portal It... Does?
grim prism
See what Byron said above
vagrant cape
Str = armor my friend
vagrant cape
And ilvl is the most important when it comes to non-DC traits
hearty portal
and parry
grim prism
Well gol dernit, looks like one of us doesn't read
vagrant cape
You're speaking out of the 7th planet from the sun
vagrant cape
Eh, I like str. Gives more IP as well
hearty portal
Does a second trait give 100% benefit?
vagrant cape
Also, enemies do 100% reduced damage if they're dead 😎
shut summit
how are druids/warriors not able to tank fetid 🤔
hearty portal
They die
vagrant cape
Does a second what trait, @hearty portal ?
shut summit
we killed it last night with druid/warrior
hearty portal
Reinforced
vagrant cape
Yes
hearty portal
On mythic?
shut summit
ofc
hearty portal
you forgot to log it then
grim prism
Lol
shut summit
?
grim prism
No he didnt
vagrant cape
You still only get one stack per block and they still go to five, but each stack is twice as powerful with two reinforced platings
astral crystal
🤔
hearty portal
I cant find the kill on warcraftlogs
tight tree
Maybe they do private logs
shut summit
we dont
tight tree
But here, proof that warriors can do it
grim prism
Did you try looking @hearty portal?
astral crystal
also saying you can't kill a boss with a particular tank comp at this point is a little audacious to say the least
the vast majority of guilds aren't past the 3/8 slump ll
lol*
actually scratch that, most guilds aren't past 2/8 soooo
hearty portal
Balsaq link the log for me
vagrant cape
You have to define "guilds" because MOST guilds in wow aren't even 1/8 heroic
astral crystal
ok, let's call it most mythic raiding guilds
topaz cove
I'm 2/8 N 💪
astral crystal
idk what guild bigdaddy is from so i won't make assumptions
tight tree
1/8 and proud
grim prism
0.4% of all active raiders have a M Fetid kill... must be because prot is bad
astral crystal
we're 3/8m, about to start the disgusting vectis wipefest
hearty portal
Damn i wanted to see a warrior take the Thrash
grim prism
You wanted to see your asinine viewpoint validated and it isnt
scarlet stratus
Hoping to get some trinket help. I've been gearing Arms since Uldir released, but as of this week I'm switching to Prot. I have no tanking trinkets. My DPS trinkets are Syringe of Bloodborne Infirmity (355), Darkmoon Deck: Fathoms (355), Rezan's Gleaming Eye (355). Until I can get a Prot trinket, which two should I run with? Content level: Heroic Uldir.
hearty portal
I was Always talking about warriors taking the thrash
grim prism
@scarlet stratus RGE and Syringe
grim prism
You were always talking about warriors being unable to kill Fetid
And they are
So /shrug
scarlet stratus
lol they're 68k on my server. 😦
hearty portal
@shut summit did you ever try to take the thrashes?
shut summit
did it fine, ya
just dont have to worry about dying when raid leading so let druid deal with it 😈
left bloom
Doing +15 in time as prot was fun as well
Most bosses ate half my HP when charging the boss with a pre shield wall
Thx to blizzard making shield lock cost more than you get for charging
left bloom
Was around 365 I think when we pushed the key last week
chilly brook
@left bloom you should have enough rage if you pop avatar before pulling
jade tartan
I'm struggling with 11s and I'm 364 🤔 - I think I badly need a shield :\
it was King's Rest tho..
chilly brook
Here’s a question for ya, why does DH’s AM not cost anything 🤔
left bloom
Have a 355 shield, as yhey never drop
jade tartan
yea :\
astral crystal
their AM has less uptime than ours doesnt it
left bloom
And I main arms, so I dont get from raid
grim prism
It costs you playing a memehunter
spark birch
Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Prot Warrior the Tank? I thought not it is not a story Blizzard would tell you. They ruled the tanking game in Classic but then. Burning Crusade struck. Ironic is it not that they could protect others from nerfs but not themselves?
Rate my shitpost pls
amber siren
0
grim prism
And having to look up a unicode table to be able to name your character Iļĺįđånk
@spark birch 2/10, i see the effort but it's an ancient meme with not enough spice
astral crystal
lol
spark birch
nice
sudden tapir
Certainly not making a powerpuff girl out of it.
grim prism
I rewrote the entirety of "Twas the Night Before Christmas" for a Nighthold shitpost once upon a time
grim prism
Well, I do main prot
north dove
I'll main prot again when they fix it
chilly brook
I play prot
Then I got my DH, bear and pally to 120
Not seeing the favorable community perception of those
DH is a wet paper bag
Bear is barely any better
mortal pike
Don't think the perception of bear is that good
chilly brook
Pally is meh
I’ll take my not getting smacked around
And actually feeling like I control my damage income
@mortal pike I thought they were still favorably viewed for raids cuz you know Sco
mortal pike
I just based it on what guildies, people I know in other guilds have said. The general community probably still thinks they're as good as in Legion
chilly brook
I think at this point the only other tank I could be convinced to play that isn’t my warrior is my monk
And that’s mainly because I mained my monk from like beginning of WoD and they’re always going to be, outside of some freak accident at Blizzard, a solid tank
mortal pike
Kinda weak early legion but ye
fresh dragon
Shield Block Raise your shield, blocking all melee attacks against you for 6 sec. These blocks can be critical blocks. Increases Shield Slam damage by 30% while active. Requires Shields. 1 charge. Warrior - Protection Spec. Warrior - Protection Spec. 30 Rage. Instant. 18 sec recharge. 1 charge.
grim prism
Mmhmm
ember arrow
🍿
fresh dragon
So they nerfed us in 8.1?
grim prism
Yes, public test realm datamines from months before 8.1 are a concrete guarantee of what will and will not be in the patch
They are removing mastery and one charge of block
fresh dragon
They post this today on mmo
west pelican
wait, what, they are removing a charge of shield block?
fresh dragon
No. Critical block
ember arrow
Prot can use bear as cushion to floortank
fresh dragon
Removed
grim prism
In case the sarcasm wasnt disgustingly obvious, PTR is for testing and shit that is posted on MMOC is not a real changelog
deft ether
The sky is not falling.
ember arrow
Tooltip change
grim prism
Welcome to Skyhold, ths only class discord that's such a fucking dumpsterfire that its own mods don't even enjoy participating
ember arrow
We arent breaking the rules
oblique wolf
you can not break rules and still be a drain on everyone elses mental state
ember arrow
Noones forcing you to read any of this
grim prism
@ember arrow do you enjoy reading day after day about how prot can't do M+ or raiding and/or how x undocumented PTR datamine is a gamebreaking mistake?
ember arrow
Its quite entertaining yes
grim prism
Its only entertaining because I blow up on people and then get tempbanned every other weeo
ember arrow
I have no stakes in prot being good
Although i want to keep up with any potential developments
vocal nimbus
PROT SUCKS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
grim prism
Well you may want to be aware that they are removing prot's mastery and taking a charge of shield block away in 8.1
Sell sell sell
ember arrow
And those statements arent entirely false
grim prism
Theyre more false than true
grim prism
Yeah i know, more false than true
The biggest doomsayers in here are people that openly admit to things like stacking haste over armor or thinking shield block is on-GCD yet claim they are doing everything right
chilly brook
Prot is bad mmmmmmk
grim prism
It's not the repetitiveness that bothers me
chilly brook
Listen and believe
grim prism
Its the sheer stupidity
How are you going to come in here and tell us that you're 365 and doing everything right and you're consistently struggling in +4s, as I have read in here previously
grim prism
I have never been one to claim that prot is excelling right now, I've been saying since week three that we could use some buffs
grim prism
But god damn these smoothbrains and their asinine complaints
chilly brook
If representation actually meant something
grim prism
It just wears on the soul
vocal nimbus
Thats a m+ chart
chilly brook
I know what Raider.io is
It’s a counter point not entirely relative to the graph
🤦🏻♂️
signal plover
It's def monk heavy for raids
chilly brook
Got a link
signal plover
Look at mythic fetid logs lol
vocal nimbus
What bothers me is why anyone would ever want or try to change a random dude's mind
chilly brook
Mythic fetid
signal plover
Granted hes still pretty broken
chilly brook
So cherry picking
ember arrow
Topguilds private log. Cant make chart like this
signal plover
Hey I raid prot just one example I saw
chilly brook
Regardless most of us aren’t “top 200 tanks” so it’s hardly going to matter
Unless you’re planning on competing in the MDI or world first
grim prism
@vocal nimbus because new players come to this server for help and they see a bunch of histrionics instead of accurate information and get turned off to a spec they may have been enjoying
signal plover
I mean yeah
ember arrow
If a class is better in top guilds/runs, it is ESPECIALLY good for lower guilds
signal plover
We all preach the same shit in here
chilly brook
Gratz on your kill btw Paw
grim prism
This was originally a place for people to share tips and best practices
signal plover
What kill?
chilly brook
G’huun
grim prism
Now it is an echo chamber for normal-prog crybabies
chilly brook
The clip from yesterday or w/e
signal plover
That was two weeks ago I think
chilly brook
Oh rip lol
signal plover
Two night guild woop woop
chilly brook
@ember arrow I mean disc priest? Hello? Bad disc is bad period
ember arrow
Hmm?
chilly brook
Just because a class is good for top tier guilds=/=good for lower tier
junior igloo
We learn all the tank knowledge on this discord, obviously we are top tanks @chilly brook
dusk fog
Kind of topical, I’m coming back to prot after playing dps most of legion and BFA so far, why is prot perceived as week? Our AM feels alright, feels like I have tons of CDS and great damage? Mastery is a bit RNG I suppose but it feels super good so far
chilly brook
@dusk fog because people can’t rotate CDs properly and overlap AM with LS etc
Don’t forget “oh but the utility”
signal plover
Community perception based on bleeding edge prog rankings put out by popular streamers and top guilds as well as a large saturation of poorly played prot warrs.
ember arrow
Which is huge
grim prism
@dusk fog because we are tuned in kind of a weird spot right now, compounded with the fact that our playstyle is much more proactive than other tanks so mistskes feel more punishing
chilly brook
I’d rather sacrifice DHs utility for not being completely at the mercy of my group for staying alive
ember arrow
Utility is huge. Dont pretend its not
grim prism
And then just standard wow community bandwagoning
fleet ridge
only thing i find really difficult is dealing with magic damage or bleeds, especially dots
dusk fog
I mean, I don’t have the utility of a DH, sure. But shockwave and intervene have their uses
chilly brook
Again I’ll sacrifice the utility DH has for not actually getting slapped around
junior igloo
@dusk fog
Yeah, the toolkit is good imo.
It's just the numbers are a bit lower than other tanks defensively. Even though we have more cooldowns than other classes, we have tougher time surviving high damage on some encounters.
grim prism
Sco says dont bring prot wars to raids, mythic prog communities follow the advice, then they use a class representation chart as proof prot is bad lol
ashen flower
Since reinforced plating got buffed, is it any worth now?
ember arrow
On dk i can tamk thrash passively
grim prism
Dont get me wrong we could benefit from some tuning, we arent in a great spot atm
ember arrow
No margin for error
dusk fog
Meh, we are only 2/8 atm, I don’t think the bleeding edge really applies to me haha
willow topaz
I don't think the spec is objectively bad, it's just incredibly clunky and sometimes frustrating to play
dusk fog
Was a prot main from vanilla to legion, I don’t think I could play another tank
chilly brook
I mean I think this discord would be better off if we didn’t sit here trying to convince people that other tanks are better as if we’re attempting to convert them to monk or DK
oblique wolf
@grim prism how are you feeling about the gcd changes for prot in bfa?
prisma crane
probably because if your heals arent also on the same page, you can be often left with nothing
signal plover
Man doing m+ I would love it if they brought back SS dispel/purge and baked it into HR or punish.
left bloom
the more we convince people to reroll, the bigger the buffs will be
I say we continue to damn prot to hell
ashen flower
Well we do suck ass....IF we dont use our CDs properly, IF u do, there is small chunk of time where ur 1shotable, i am Prot War, cleaned 5/8 Heroic sofar, going for 8/8 tomorow, my raid leader dont want to replace me with other class
oblique wolf
Just started leveling yesterday, feels like i won't develop arthritis now in comparison to legion
chilly brook
And the heavier handed the nerf
prisma crane
Griff, we're just being real, we're not trying to convert people, we're just actually admitting where we fall behind and discussing it
junior igloo
You joke, but I wouldn't be surprised if that played a small role, @left bloom
grim prism
@oblique wolf dont mind them; I dont think avatar should be on-global but most classes have their offensive on-GCD so it's whatever. IP on global doesnt bother me at all, it's the tuning of IP that makes it feel bad as an on-GCD rotational cast
willow topaz
@prisma crane krothats definitely the worse part, healers are too spoilt by pals Dhs and Dks and expect you to "oh shit" heal yourself when you get low
fair brook
What ONE change would you have them make to prot in 8.1, if you have anything, but only one thing?
grim prism
Retune IP
daring marlin
AM baseline.
dawn dome
Retune IP and make it off GCD
chilly brook
There’s being real and then there’s just being ridiculous
grim prism
If IP gets taken off-GCD we woukd just be casting devastate more. Our builders are ICD-gated
left bloom
and let spell reflect be up for its full duration
inner trail
give the artifact ability back
left bloom
not just until first spell is reflected
grim prism
Remove prot
willow topaz
Add old MoP second wind
fair brook
I was just curious, I think everyone's right. Making IP feel like it actually covers gaps and is satisfying to press would be amazing.
digital arrow
if i could change one thing, i'd make leap a 2-charge skill
chilly brook
Like the issues are already obvious, coming in here day after day and pointing out class representation etc. is asinine
ashen flower
I think our biggest problem is having around 60k hp less then other tanks. If they can lift that up we wpuld be fine
prisma crane
Griff, what's ridiculous is how you think that if everyone played exactly like you do, Prot is "top tier"
daring marlin
When has he ever said it was top tier?
prisma crane
I want people to play prot warrior, i also want prot warrior to feel good while playing it
junior igloo
Look at warlocks - were perfectly fine, we still planned on bringing a bunch (destro probably the best spec in game to kill some priority adds like Vectis and Affliction still among the best multidotters + you want a bunch of portals on G'huun).
They weren't OP, but at least average imo, maybe even slightly above.
And they threw a fit, simply wouldn't stand for it. So they got hotfix buffed pretty quickly, now they are back at the top...
Some other classes/communities that don't complain are just below average tier after tier. 🤔
daring marlin
He just points out that he does well.
frosty wedge
even a bit more utility, like having stormbolt baseline so we have a ranged interrupt, etc
daring marlin
I do, too.
inner trail
at least we're not shamans
steel mauve
I wouldnt call storm bolt an interrupt, it stuns em for 4 seconds, after which they stay in the same spot and continue casting
calm whale
Having the mini victory rush baseline would be kind of nice 🤔
daring marlin
gag order
grim prism
@frosty wedge the main reason people specifically wanted a ranged interrupt was so they could drag casters to you without having to move
daring marlin
let's go blizzard
chilly brook
Please go find a place where I said prot is top tier
prisma crane
Fetid
inner trail
victory rush needs to be changed so you don't have to do the last hit, it's ridiculous for a tank otherwise
chilly brook
In fact go find anywhere where I said prot is better than just “fine”
grim prism
@inner trail then it's a free 20% for every mob you kill? Thats 2stronk
blissful imp
Look, this debate that is constantly going on is not really about being viable
We all know Prot is viable
daring marlin
I get plenty of VR procs anyway.
blissful imp
It's about being accepted
grim prism
@blissful imp clearly we dont
blissful imp
And right now, prot is not accepted
prisma crane
if I'm to take your statement at face value, then what's your issue with people wanting buffs and more community viability
blissful imp
And won't be accepted till buffs
prisma crane
we can scream all we want about how we're actually not bad, but until community perception changes, it wont change
chrome harbor
didnt they say it was just tuning and that actual changes would come at a later date?
chilly brook
🤦🏻♂️
blissful imp
Bullshit, they can give us gag order back
blissful imp
Make shockwave 3 seconds again
daring marlin
@ember arrow lol what utility buffs would you want for prot warrior?
fair brook
I do have to point out, I have saved our raid with commanding shout more than a few times.
chilly brook
But when did I say I’d have an issue with that
prisma crane
buffs can help us for raids, not for M+, M+ is defined by utility
i mean buffs wouldnt hurt either, but wont change much
ember arrow
@daring marlin idk at least a way to displace mobs
dawn dome
M+ is where we really lack
ashen flower
I can tank +10 without big problems, with proper healer, its just a community standing that they pejusticate us before even try us
fair brook
I enjoy being top dps in M+ though
blissful imp
Gag order, 3 second back on shockwave, and a snare on thunderclap is all we need to boost numbers in M+ in terms of utility
blissful imp
That's roots
ashen flower
I get 50 declines of groups because im prot war, the one i get invite i get tanked in time , ranked #3 prot war by m+ progress on my server atm
blissful imp
They only hit melee if rooted
frosty wedge
give tclap a slow like keg smash
chilly brook
Wut
ashen flower
As i sayd, give us 30-40k more hp and we are fine
fair brook
I want a ranged silence/interrupt so badly, almost as bad as a useful IP
frosty wedge
is what hes sayng
lunar wedge
No snare is slow...lol
chrome harbor
snare has always been slow
steel mauve
Thought snares were hold in place and slows were slows
daring marlin
yeah snare=slow
dawn dome
if you check m+ progress and the amount of warriors represented in there it paints a pretty clear picture that people just don't like us there atm
lunar wedge
Someone needs to play more frost mage
daring marlin
root=root
chilly brook
daring marlin
@dawn dome It's almost, as if; the perception of prot warrior is bad so everyone and their dog swapped to something else.
Take Levko for example.
dawn dome
Perception is pretty bad indeed. My friends have been asking me to roll an alt tank so we can do higher m+ 😃
but I have to say that perception is mostly justified. this week mobs are just destroying me at m10
prisma crane
gag order would be nice, but i dont think it'd do enough, plus it'd eat up further GCDs
daring marlin
This week's mobs are fucking plenty of people up.
chrome harbor
theyre destroying most id think, that pull in underrot with two maidens were oneshotting my monk tank (i was deepsin)
prisma crane
since you often have other shit beating on you while one thing is off casting
dawn dome
also, shields do not block rocks
fair brook
is there a list somewhere of stam/hp pool rankings for tanks? not EHP, just strait hp?
ashen flower
There is 3 solutions they can make to fix us easy: 1. Give us 30-40k more hp. 2. When u shieldslam u get shield for 30-40k hp. 3. Remove IP from GCD and reduce cost
junior igloo
@prisma crane
The community perception might be exaggerated to some extend, but it didn't appear out of nowhere.
We are considered a weak tank because we are one of the weaker tanks. I don't see the point of trying to somehow cover it up or pretend it's not the case.
Does that mean that warriors cannot tank? Of course not.
But you will get a noticeable increase in performance if you swap a warrior for equally skilled and geared monk or DK.
If you think that it's not the case and it's only a perception problem, I'll have to disagree. As someone who tanks the same content on multiple classes (and knowing others who do), the perception is there for a reason.
To me that shouldn't be a controversial topic. Nobody is perfect, class imbalance is part of any game. Just call it like it is and developers will try to balance (in this case hopefully giving us some buffs).
daring marlin
The rocks don't hit that hard
as long as it's not a huge pack
They hit my Warrior for 10-14k in a +10
big whoop
blissful imp
Yea, best team in the world timing +16s last week were failing +13s this week. This week has been brutal
astral crystal
daily reminder that getting D3 IP and thunderclap with no DR knockdown would save prot warrior
prisma crane
@junior igloo that's exactly what i'm saying
steel mauve
More hp wont really do shit for us, we have really high ehp, which is why we have the lowest hp pool
Well idk for sure if thats the reason but its my assumption
dawn dome
well said @junior igloo
prisma crane
@junior igloo my point is that we wont fix our perception problem until we're actually brought forward in "ranking"
astral crystal
you mean scopoints?
junior igloo
@steel mauve
Our EHP is actually quite bad, we can only increase it temporarily.
Our damage taken/healing required is low, but EHP isn't high
prisma crane
our EHP was high in Legion, but def less now
daring marlin
Well, when you have basically infinite IP and overflowing rage, that'll happen
ashen flower
@steel mauve having bigger hp pool would help to not get 1shot between small gap inbetween AM CDs
prisma crane
didnt stop ppl from complaining that we had low hp though
grim prism
Which is what someone just proposed above lol @daring marlin
daring marlin
You know what was actually hilarious and broken in the prepatch? How new IP worked with 4pc Antorus tier.
daring marlin
It was basically infinite IP. It never ran out at all.
prisma crane
more HP won't solve that
dawn dome
lots of small mobs hitting us down - we need ways to avoid or mitigate, a bit more hp will only make you die a second later
daring marlin
A rework to our mastery would be a nice start.
ashen flower
@prisma crane i think it actualy would, cause if u use your AM CDs properly u have few seconds gap where ur empty, ofc with proper gear and traits
daring marlin
Last night someone was actually saying how amazing our mastery is and how it'll be great later when we have more stats to boost it.
I wanted to die.
fair brook
is bdk really the highest hp pool now, over guardian? if so, that seems silly
chrome harbor
I dont think ive seen any bear tanks tbh in bfa yet
daring marlin
because they're fucking boring as fuck
ashen flower
Our DH tank has 60k more then me, we 2 ilvl differenece. Thats insane
astral crystal
hero classes btw haHAA
daring marlin
@astral crystal good meme lol
chrome harbor
when as being boring ever stopped classes from being popular
prisma crane
people tend to not play boring classes unless they're just reallly strong, see hunter and aff lock
daring marlin
they can be HP sponges all they want
ember arrow
Its not "hurr durr hero class"
ashen flower
Ofc they dont have as much AM as we do @ember arrow but still 60k hp difference is huge
prisma crane
but they have the HP to offset them just getting hit harder
and to allow it to be used as a resource
and then they self heal to offset the harder hit as well
higher HP is necessary for how they "mitigate"
ashen flower
As i sayd, i dont complain alot, MTing uldir, tanking m+ 8 9 10s
prisma crane
they won't put bracers baseline, prob bake it into a trait so that they can attempt another rework come 9.0
final mist
There's a bunch of passive shit they can do to buff us, because that's probably what would help the most.
daring marlin
I'd be ok with them making it a new mastery for us too.
prisma crane
we can tank 8 9 10s
we can tank above that too, but make sure your comp makes up for other weaknesses
daring marlin
Like more mastery you have the more % health you gain per point of rage spent
or w/e
final mist
Buffs to HP, the Str-to-Armor conversion, etc, are "small" buffs they can make to hold us over to the 8.1 changes, which are probably bigger.
prisma crane
well i mean more like CCs and interrupts and slows and stuff
dawn dome
I've been a Warrior tank main since classic beta. I realize there is a big influence in terms of gear and experience in being able to do higher end raiding and m+, but overall, the warrior has never felt as weak to me personally as it feels right now. It literally has me on the brink of switching to another tank so I don't hold up my guild. My hopes are for a solid set of improvements that bring us on par with Blizzard's love childs. Fingers crossed.
prisma crane
us not offhealing isnt always the answer, you cant out face tank some mobs
daring marlin
you could remove that whole "I've been this for X amount of time" it means nothing tbh
prisma crane
it states his dedication to the class
daring marlin
not really
dawn dome
just because it does not mean anything to you does not mean it does not to other people
prisma crane
when it's followed by weakest he feels and may actually swap, it has weight
ashen flower
And he has experiance
prisma crane
it means little for experience imo though
daring marlin
I've played it about as long but it still means nothing. The game was a little more broken back then.
prisma crane
i know someone who was amazing raider it vanilla, shit now, lol
daring marlin
like Warriors being the only really viable tank
and such
except for a few select fights
gl getting crushing blown
non warriors
prisma crane
sure, but still doesnt change his perception that we're weakest we've ever felt
emphasis on felt
daring marlin
muh feels
ashen flower
@prisma crane so u say somebody playing war for 3 months can rotate CDs and use rage beter then someone playing it for 10 years?
prisma crane
some, yes
daring marlin
How could they not?
grim prism
@ashen flower i think this expac has clearly demonstrated that to be the case
daring marlin
It doesn't play anything like it did in any other expansion really lol
prisma crane
when you make a super generalized statement, you have to include outliers
daring marlin
It changes so much.
grim prism
Honestly i feel like people new to the spec entirely are outperforming older tanks
final mist
Skill levels are different from person to person. Just because you've been playing for longer doesn't always mean you're more skilled.
grim prism
Because of the changes
prisma crane
some people jsut play the game, they dont min max, it's just an outlet for fun
dawn dome
potentially, but that is not the issue. I've made a personal statement about how I feel about the class at the moment, whatever you find counts or does not count is not part of the equation. It just means you have a different opinion. and that's okay 😉
prisma crane
not to mention that my skill at prot warrior during MoP means exactly nothing now
daring marlin
idk man
ashen flower
@grim prism last time i played warr was im vanilla, i rolled prot war this xpac, im MT and my RL dpnt want to change me for 3 others
daring marlin
you say we seem super weak now compared to any other time right?
remember early wrath/ulduar?
ashen flower
Still i think someone playing war for years can do it beter then me
daring marlin
why would you ever bring a warrior?
DKs did everything we did but better
EVERYTHING
ashen flower
I played DK since Wotlk, sick of it
prisma crane
maybe you're just not an amazing player @ashen flower and i don't mean that as a bad thing
or, prot jsut feels weird for you
or any number of things, cuz i promise you, you play it better than some who've played it longer
you're probably also sellign yourself short
ashen flower
@prisma crane nop? I sayd i like prot and that it just needa small tuning
prisma crane
im talking about how you said someone playing a warrior for years can do it better than you
grim prism
I mean I played prot for like six months before I was parsing 99s, and I mained rogue for literally years and have never even blueparsed
Time spent playing has almost nothing to do with performance
ashen flower
@prisma crane well that should be the case yes
prisma crane
well, parsing on a tank is a LOT easier than on a dps btw
nova viper
Is it true haste is best stat by far?
dawn dome
time playing the class does not mean someone is better or worse at it. It just means that person enjoyed spending his/her time more on said class
prisma crane
the whole point of a dps is to do dmg, not all tanks are of the mindset that they should do dmg
grim prism
Well no shit, but not by that big a margin
prisma crane
@nova viper of secondaries, yes
grim prism
@nova viper armor is most important
daring marlin
@dawn dome Just gonna skate over how awful prot was in wrath?
prisma crane
you'd be surprised @grim prism
daring marlin
We're in a pretty good spot right now comparatively.
nova viper
Ty
dawn dome
Sure DK was better, but we could still do all content with me as prot mt
prisma crane
ilvl first, then go for haste > vers>=mastery >> crit
daring marlin
DK wasn't just better
it was night and day
They were basically gods in comparison.
Shield Wall on a 1 min CD
junior ivy
was prot that bad in wrath? maybe my good memories ofr wrath just made me forget
i loved playing prot in wrath
daring marlin
It wasn't DK
junior ivy
i rmemeber it was ahrd to get/keep aggro on large packs of mobs
but beyond that i loved it
dawn dome
it wasn't bad. if you were a decent enough player you could make a lot up
grim prism
I got good parses because I worked my ass off to improve both my survivability and my throughput. Tank parses are obviously a lot less competitive but not to the point of lucking your way to 99s
Especially since prot mitigation and dps were pretty closely correlated last expac
daring marlin
The average tank player doesn't care that much about their parses. They're focusing solely on survival it seems.
grim prism
But its a moot point
daring marlin
When they could be doing max damage and surviving.
ashen flower
@prisma crane why versi over mastery?
grim prism
Time spent playing has nothing to do with skill
grim prism
Mastery is not dogshit, nor is crit
sick sentinel
when u think there is no difference in tanks, play a +10 motherload with a prot and then with a dk... 😄 night and day
prisma crane
but vers helps with all dmg, including our weaknesses, bleeds and magic
junior ivy
how come blizz just.. lets us suck so bad?
ashen flower
I never understood the >=
junior ivy
i dont understand
prisma crane
it's not intentional, if im honest, we just needed the largest rework and they rushed BFA
grim prism
@ashen flower equal to or more than, basically its such a slight difference that it almost doesnt even matter
ashen flower
Ahh so it means haste + whateverthefuckuget?
sick sentinel
vers helps u in m+, mittigating some of that 80k casts that melt down ur 30k ignore pain
ashen flower
Great 😎
prisma crane
other players interrupting helps those casts too lol
grim prism
Pretty much yeah, ilvl > haste > whatever
dawn dome
ignore pain exists? for me the icon is always gone as fast as it came 😛
ashen flower
@prisma crane sometimes i ask myself if ppl have interupts on theyr actionbars...but Qing 10s :stipo3Izba: :t21prot:
grim prism
@sick sentinel M+ is one of the places where mastery is most likely to outperform vers
dawn dome
(which isn't true, but IP seems to really disappear very fast)
grim prism
Because of the sheer volume of blockable damage
prisma crane
oh trust me @ashen flower it's probably one of my biggest gripes with people, those who don't interrupt, esp DHs that actually gain resources by doing it...
ashen flower
Y
prisma crane
it's only mostly blockable when people interrupt
and some dungeons it's not blockable at all
motherlode is just lame
sick sentinel
@grim prism thats a point, but for myself i can say that i am struggeling the most with magic damage, e.g. getting completly crushed on zul or getting teared apart from earthshapers in motherload, because the group is dogsht
dawn dome
yeah, that group also had me bite my table
grim prism
Then a little more vers isnt going to help you lol
sick sentinel
i have 10% vers baseline and 370 jes howler, that works quite well
daring marlin
way too much fucking haste
stupid mother ring!
err crit**
though I had some funny rng the other day in a +9 KR
on the first boss I parried the tank buster every single time
it was goofy
we have the lowest single target
grim prism
WCL says bear does, actually
They are worse in every way except sheer healthpool
Big dumb sponges they are
sick sentinel
they had a whole expac at the top cmon
grim prism
They need this.
They earned this.
After the shitstorm that was NH it was bound to happen
digital arrow
grats cat!!!
junior ivy
thanks lol
grim prism
Lmao
digital arrow
i should stop neglecting my herbing and mining
dawn dome
congrats 😃 aren't they reducing required anchor week per flask?
grim prism
I'd gladly trade you some of my anchor weed for some of your ilvl
daring marlin
they should just change how herbs work
grim prism
@dawn dome yeah, get rich while you still can
daring marlin
how they are now is absolutely garbage
digital arrow
i am too scared to stop to pick out flowers when there are horde at every corner while im in war mode
daring marlin
turn that pesky war mode off then
dawn dome
already got more cash that I can realistically spend 😉
daring marlin
😉
junior ivy
haha yeah i dont use war mode
grim prism
I got a 350 BoE dagger on an alt this past weekend and immediately equipped it because I was stoned
digital arrow
which means i fear horde and hop away lmao
wide juniper
I'm pumped that I made it to 250k...
junior ivy
i made the 1 mil selling +15s in legion
digital arrow
i've never gone over 170k gold, but i haven't messed around with AH other than to get rid of stuff in my bags
dawn dome
I started BFA with around 50k, bordering on 2m now. Darkmoon cards were great at the start 😉
digital arrow
hmm maybe i should look into that, or anchor weed
dawn dome
switched to alchemy now for 2h flasks though
junior ivy
i need a darkmoon deck
fathoms for fury
but everyone is selling it for like 75kl
thats so much gold
75k*
junior ivy
im tempted ot make my sutpid druid alt an engineer
i miss lootarang
and i miss goblin gliders gbuilt in to my cape
build*
built*
grim prism
If you could still have built-in gliders nobody would still play DH this expac 😂
junior ivy
sometimes i run and jump; off high cliffs on my druid
frosty wedge
flap
junior ivy
then i forget that i dont have goblin glider or heroic leap
and i jsut fall ot my death
frosty wedge
get flap!
junior ivy
whats flap
civic yew
Is it true that protection is very bad?
junior ivy
i dont have moonkin form im a healer 😦
frosty wedge
oh, guardian affinity?
my druid's a guardian with balance affinity so I can swap to moonkin and flap
lol
you have to buy a tome from the dude in moonglade
junior ivy
im cat affinity
grim prism
Im shocked
frosty wedge
lol
civic yew
I thought I was in the druid discord for a second
frosty wedge
yeah sorry, I just wanted catfriend to stop falling to his demise
digital arrow
lol
civic yew
Any change to prote in the future that we know of?
civic yew
Oh neat
grim prism
@civic yew there are undocumented changes on PTR that wont go live as-is, so tldr no
Lore says buffs are coming and thats all we know
odd ridge
Oh my
grim prism
If you play prot you should be used to being underwhelmed hue
dusk locust
whatever they change i hope they don't water down the challenge too much
civic yew
I only just started
with prote
wanted a tank, picked this one
bit of a fail from me right now tbh
wide juniper
I'm now a holy pally main, I get it Waizu
But I can never seem to stop playing my prot war
grim prism
Its definitely harder to pick up than others right now
frosty wedge
Prot warrior has a high skill floor, and an even higher skill ceiling. It's difficult to play and it definitely needs some tuning/love, but you sould be able to do MOST content without too much issue
Just takes some getting used to. we're proactive tanks, and it's way less forgiving if you mess up, which you are likely to do when learning
grim prism
Idk about the ceiling but its definitely harder to play at a minimally acceptable level than others
civic yew
I mean
I main WW monk
actually
I main monk, I know all my specs
and I feel like monk tank is way harder, I picked this because it looked hard
frosty wedge
oh, if you have a max level monk, BrMs are OP tanks atm
civic yew
not as hard as monk, but not as easy as dk
grim prism
A braindead BrM is going to outperform a braindead prpt
fair brook
huh, my BM monk feels like turning the game to easy mode, imho
grim prism
A godtier BrM is going to outperform a godtier prot
frosty wedge
I'd argue BrM and Prot are pretty similar, but that BrM is way more forgiving
If you manage brews well, you barely have t touch other CDs
whereas with prot, it's all about rolling CDs and knowing when to proactively use things
civic yew
I mean I feel like the stagger mechanic is way harder than anything the prot can do
but maybe I don't know enough about prot
frosty wedge
stagger is an always on dmg mitigation/delay, all you have to do is know when to purify
ISB adds to stagger
grim prism
Stagger practically handles itself compared to prot
frosty wedge
but it's always there
civic yew
ye, I feel like it's a lot more about learning the fight
I feel like I can braindead tankspank with the war
but I haven't tried higher content yet
frosty wedge
yeah definitely not
grim prism
In heroic maybe
tawdry python
what do you call higher content?
grim prism
Braindead tankspank will have you wiping +3s as prot lol
grim prism
Yeah I mean leveling prot is basically pop demo shout and spam aoes
tawdry python
you havent tried m+ as prot and you're trying to say its easy?
grim prism
But thats all tanjs
unkempt fox
can anyone who use elvui can tell me how to setup boss energy bar (like mother's)?
civic yew
I'm saying I felt like it was easy
I wasn't saying It's an empirical fact
that I know
to be true
brazen sequoia
Guys, is it worth using Shield Block while Last Stand is active? I have Bolster, obviously 😂
grim prism
Not at all @brazen sequoia
willow dirge
No, you don't gain anything from overlapping them
grim prism
Complete waste, actually
brazen sequoia
I figured 😃
brazen sequoia
My friend said "but critical block!!" xD
grim prism
Your friend hasnt played prot this expac
tawdry python
gotta save the shield block charges imo
brazen sequoia
My friend have never played prot, but is like one of those "I read something on icyveins, so it must be true"
chrome harbor
The internet does not post false information thank you
grim prism
And IV wont even say it anymore because the officers here wrote the guide lolol
chrome harbor
well isn't that kind of recent for icy veins? I remember years ago it was like the spark notes edition for class info
grim prism
There used to be value to over 100% blick chance but it is a complete waste in the current game
tawdry python
when are the prot m+ tips coming like the blood dk ones?
grim prism
@tawdry python when people start bringing prot to M+
tawdry python
8.1 then 😦
brazen sequoia
aw
vale spruce
any one got stat weights for prot?
brazen sequoia
People are still bringing me though. Probably out of pity or spite
grim prism
No itll take a full patch for people to unseat their heads from their asses. 8.2
prisma crane
@grim prism not a "complete" waste, SB still gives more dmg to SS which bolstered LS does not, but, from a defense standpoint, waste, yup
grim prism
@vale spruce they dont exist. Use ilvl > all on armor and prioritize haste ovef other secondaries
Ah yes my bad
vale spruce
okay haste prio atm?
brazen sequoia
Haste then balance mastery and vers
grim prism
It has no defensive value, but SB will increase slam damage wgere LS does not
vale spruce
ålright thank you guys so much for the answers
brazen sequoia
ååålåååå
grim prism
But then you have gaps on block uptime, so it isnt worth it if you need survivability
brazen sequoia
Yes!
digital arrow
lol i've tried intercepting back to allies while circling around a pack of mobs and they've killed me mid-charge feelsbad
wet compass
so any idea what our new mastery is yet?
grim prism
Because it turns your back when it happens
wet compass
or if they are going to finally get a clue and just make all AM 100% uptime which would be nice
digital arrow
@grim prism aw damn
grim prism
@wet compass they should just remove mechanics from dungeons too aye
wet compass
what?
the problem is that half the tanks have 100% uptime on AM like Brew and others like Warriors have 50 to 70
junior igloo
Warriors have 40
grim prism
Brews have a cooldown and thats what keeps them from dying, not stagger alone
wet compass
lol
Ironskin is 100% uptime unless you are horrible
I was including IP to be nice Meiff but yeah it's pain
junior igloo
Ironskin Brew is so tryhard.
Just use regular stagger 😄
Still stronger than any warrior defensive :-d
wet compass
😦
I'm aware my brew is 340 and feels so nice and controlled in terms of damage intake
grim prism
Yes
wet compass
the lord scenario gives at least 10% unrested all the way to 120
not that I have been using that because I can't stand questing anymore or anything shifty eyes
wet compass
That sounds even worse than questing
wet compass
Same downside for lord but just spend 10k for a set of 300 boes
it will be better than any gear you get questing anyway
wet compass
the alliance scenario where you invade lord
leave after the blight bomb before starting saur and just req
you get between 10 to 30 percent of a level every run depending on if rested
fleet ridge
oh wow
wet compass
just don't turn it in
astral crystal
it's kind of a long scenario though isn't it
wet compass
conversely from normal you get better xp in larger groups so you want to do at prime time
it's not questing
that's all that matter
matters*
grim prism
But how are you ever going to delve into the lore of the tortollan seekers
wet compass
also larger group = faster clear
by being 16kish into revered with those turtle jerks on my warrior
astral crystal
suffer not the turtle to live
wet compass
I don't do those anymore
astral crystal
yeah i skip beachhead
wet compass
just make loh go and match
astral crystal
memory game is best
wet compass
for sure
astral crystal
i was watching a streamer do it and they actually used a fucking addon
how is it even possible
grim prism
Most people i know use addons for it tbh
astral crystal
dumb af
grim prism
Like dawg i had this shit mastered by first grade
Just go row by row and go back when you see a match
Real hardcore shit
astral crystal
i just assign a phrase that correspond to the two shells i turn; ie angel blood for valkyr and blood, and pop them in columns
the phrase is a quick association and i never get them wrong
grim prism
Yeah same basically
Fun actual science fact inc
Saying the word out loud or under your breath activates different neural pathways thus strenghening the connection
Its like cheating except it doesnt require an addon
wet compass
why would you need to cheat it's easy?
the longest time is just the time for the shell to flip
astral crystal
i understood cheating at barrels o fun
wet compass
yeah same
barrels just got annoying and I didn't want to pay attention anymore
shell game takes like 30 seconds outside of wait for shell to flip time
grim prism
And the only reason that one was hard is the shitass animation they used
Like why even bother paying attention when three out of seven barrels all clip through each other in the same transit
Otherwise it's literally just "keep looking at this barrel"
Kirin Tor and Turtles can die in the same fire imo
At least they dont have those "wait in the bubble" challenges anymore
stark sage
the barrels always traveled in a straight line, you just had to watch its trajectory
vagrant cape
sometimes two barrels would move along the same line
grim prism
I am aware of that but when they actively occlude each other going to or from adjacent slots to other places it can be kind of a shitshow
stark sage
i never had trouble with the barrel game ¯_(ツ)_/¯
vagrant cape
Is it too tinfoil hat to propose that the tortollan WQs are slow and tedious as a way to keep us subbed for an extra few seconds per world quest?
wet compass
I didn't have trouble I just didn't want to pay attention
grim prism
Well I guess thats why they made you an officer
wet compass
the flight games sucked until we actually got flight then they became awesome
it's not being subbed it's in game time
and that's not really tinfoily
wet compass
they swapped metrics to time played
after the massive unsub in wod
and the game has suffered hard for it
Reckless Flurry Auto attacks deal 458 19 additional damage and reduce the cooldown of Recklessness by 0.1 sec. - and now blizz is killing the spec I was at least able to have some fun with waiting for them to unfuck prot 😦
going from 458 to 19 damage wtf lol
grim prism
Undocumented PTR changes dont matter
Reckless flurry probably isnt going to 19 damage and they probably arent removing prot mastery
Its prepatch all over again 
tawdry python
why dont the ptr changes matter? aren't they at least indicative of what blizz is thinking?
oblique wolf
its data mining. there is a significant chance that it is misrepresented, as it usually is
tawdry python
ah i see
grim prism
Because 8.1 is months away and its very unlikely they intend to nerf a trait by 95% or remove a class's mastery entirely
brazen sequoia
Right now it also says that we only have 1 charge of Shield Block (hope not!) so.. 😉
brazen sequoia
Datamining is an "idea of where things are going" but not a final thing.
I want Gladiaor stance back
silk mortar
We actually only have one shield block charge, the 2nd one comes from a "rank up" spell thingie. Fun how people dont know that ;D
sick sentinel
I miss thundergod's vigor/walls fell running 4piece t20 2piece t21, rage capping and stacking massive IPs every few seconds and being a machine
Things are different now and I hate it
grim prism
IP was so thoughtless it may as well have been a passive then
I see why they changed it
solid mist
In this chat a lot of folks who don't work on software, don't know what string/translation files are, don't understand why tooltips would change or suddenly disappear during a Dev cycle
grim prism
They just did a bad job changing it lol
sick sentinel
Yeah I mean it was pretty much no thought
It needed to be changed and made more interesting
grim prism
Well i can say the community is definitely a lot more interested in it now lol
Blizzard reeeee
stark sage
@astral crystal that would be basically IP off the GCD
😛
but yeah i guess thats the point
sick sentinel
I don't feel like it's more interesting now. I can spend my rage on getting my defense up, or I can spend my rage on doing a negligable bit of extra damage in a cone in front of me
astral crystal
but we'd have no reliable dump
sick sentinel
super yay
grim prism
No its definitely not more interesting, i was just memeing
chrome harbor
what if they removed the CD on revenge and kept the idea of rage spent = IP absorb
stark sage
IP being a passive based on spent rage is not the direction to go
grim prism
I do legitimately think rev should have no cooldown
sick sentinel
What iiiiif we didn't rely on a specific talent build and azerite trait to be viable
chrome harbor
being able to decide if you want to dump into defense or offense would be a good choice to have