Yea, but you have your set midigation as BDK anyways, so mainstat isn't gonna help no? I don't know enough about bdk so I could be wrong
#protection
strong forum
hearty portal
Healers arent the problem trust me
onyx vessel
comparing prot warrior to BDK
ember arrow
U pick talent for 10% more hp
onyx vessel
kms
ember arrow
And a stam flask
tight tree
Like block every trash be okay but damage is still too high?
strong forum
10% hp ain't gonna cut it
onyx vessel
10% hp is like 17-20k hp
hearty portal
Hp is not the problem
slow gull
Just ignore levko guys a troll wants you to turn your self into a druid tank aka a body bag
hearty portal
Dk's just stack their shield
onyx vessel
levko is normally right
hearty portal
And monks just stagger through
tight tree
THese times long over
slow gull
When that guy said prot can't tank fetid he said you should be playing multiple classes as a mythic raider
tight tree
DK's boneshild (armor buff) mitigate more than blocking same attack?
onyx vessel
he never said they cant
as a hardcore raider yes having more then 1 tank is good idea
tight tree
As a non-hardcore raider you dont going to mythic Fetid
onyx vessel
sure you are
slow gull
In two weeks
hearty portal
I mean the 2 first bosses in mythic are easy guys. Its not hard to reach fettid
But he just slams warriors
slow gull
@hearty portal you should go zek vectis first
tight tree
Not really
tight tree
He is just being bit provocative
onyx vessel
i dont think blizz is gonna leave these tanks like this right now
hearty portal
My point is that other tanks can do fettid. Warriors cannot. Whats the solution here? Kick me from the raid and take a monk/dk
onyx vessel
8.1 gonna see changes
tight tree
And yes you should have backup tank geared, it is extremely easy and fast now. I love playing warrior but guild prog > personal preference
onyx vessel
yup
hearty portal
I dont have time for that luxury sadly
tight tree
I think warrior is better at fetid than DH
hearty portal
They might be
tight tree
and better than bear
tight tree
That is very subjective
onyx vessel
git gud
hearty portal
And blizzards current solution is rerolling
kind urchin
The point is you shouldn't have to roll another class to do the contwnt because the class you play is not capable of doing it. That is a design flaw, a big one that should be remedied.
Content*
onyx vessel
they arent going to do big changes during the early part of a raid
hearty portal
^
knotty apex
man where were you guyss when I was talking about this a couple of days ago lol
hearty portal
Lets hotfix warriors so they can do content
onyx vessel
they dont need any
hearty portal
Okay
tight tree
Well to be fair, i would really appreciate at least blue post like "we are aware and working on fixing tanks guys chill", now its just void and i dont know will warrior ever see any change this xpac
tight tree
yeah noone said that 8.1 will see warrior changes
knotty apex
Yeah but
that's for the absolute pinnacle of PVE like pushing server / world first stuff
kind urchin
Hopefully. Right now I have my warrior benched for my dk and monk.
knotty apex
warriors can clear every bit of content just as fine as two monks
tight tree
"stagger nerfed 5%, block buffed 5%, DC nerfed"
kind urchin
Feels bad to bench you main since vanilla.
hearty portal
I will step down as a tank if the ptr dont have fixes for warriors. Then we just recruit a dk and I'll go dps instead
tight tree
that would be incredibly shitty
hearty portal
Thats the only way we will ever down fettid
tight tree
History showing that blizzard changes are extremely dissapointing.
knotty apex
GCD change wont do anything
onyx vessel
wat
knotty apex
already talked about this twice on here
hearty portal
The GCD wont help on fettid
tight tree
They fix wrong things for wrong reasons, their vision usually have very little to do with reality
onyx vessel
90% for the 40ish k
tight tree
Just not going to happen
onyx vessel
does nothing
vital wren
Just saw the paladin tank soloing MOTHER
knotty apex
thats because IP is best when you also have shield block up.... one wont work without the other
vital wren
INSANE
tight tree
Warriors could be and could do so much more in so much more fun way
kind urchin
It's not so much the percentage that is the problem, it's the small amount of the absorb shield.
knotty apex
the shield isnt the big thing about it it's the 50% damage buff WITH shield block
hearty portal
Making it absorb more might make warriors able to do fettid so i rather have that. But then again GCD removal will make it so much smother to play
tight tree
They will NOT change GCD. Thait is their design philosophy.
onyx vessel
wats dmg
tight tree
I am warrior main and always will be. Have nothing to do with guild progression and raid comp.
knotty apex
^
hearty portal
Braggha their design philosophy is pretty bad when classes are literally not working
junior igloo
Tanks don't have such obvious metrics as dps, so it's harder to show/prove the imbalance.
When you show logs and rogues are doing 20 % more damage on every boss than shamans, there isn't much argument you can put up against that.
It's not as simple to interpret tank balance from a couple simple metrics like that.
Sadly, as a result, tanks were really well balanced (compared to dps at least) pretty much ever
vital wren
Saying "reroll stronger tank class" is SHIT, get outta Skyhold if u dont appreciate being a warrior
ember arrow
🤔
onyx vessel
well only tank that was UNPLAYABLE was vanilla prot pally
tight tree
Krosus was tough. BRF was shit too 😉
hearty portal
But lets stay on topic
hearty portal
I mean yeah prot warrior is this version of prot paladin
vital wren
Tanking lots of elite mobs that do pure physical dmg and popping last stand for the blocking (talented) is one of the best feelings ever
A feeling u wont get as a DK or monk, swinging the staff and barrel, tryna dodge
hearty portal
Prot paladins could pretty much do all content up to patchwerk
ember arrow
@vital wren no but with bonestorm you heal yourself to full in 2 seconds from 5% on aoe
feels good too
vital wren
bonestorm is a trait?
ember arrow
talent
strong forum
Talent
vital wren
hmm never considered it thx
junior igloo
BRF - monks and DKs had a huge lead over the rest of the field
HFC - was actually pretty decent
Nighthold - druids and monks way ahead
more or less the case for the rest of Legion as well
ember arrow
do aoe dmg and heal 3 %per enemy hit for 10 sec
onyx vessel
en
strong forum
Now thats balanced
hearty portal
Meiffert what is BRF and HFC?
strong forum
Oh god
hearty portal
didnt play legion
knotty apex
blackrock foundry hellfire citadel
junior igloo
Blackrock Foundry, Hellfire Citadel
knotty apex
it was in WOD
strong forum
It's wod
hearty portal
Or wod
strong forum
Yikes
hearty portal
Ok
onyx vessel
end of legion warriors whats dmg guys
knotty apex
I mean there are tons of people who haven't played vanilla, bc wotlk cata or mop
some people start later than others
tight tree
Block is problematic because it is not working on some types of damage. And it is fine, when you have other forms of mitigation, but IP is weak and demo (20%) just not enough and very limited by range. So in theory we have very good kit but it is weak numerically.
vital wren
idd
and thats a good thing, we need new players to keep it fresh and not bored to death with ULTIMATE VETS everywhere
onyx vessel
prob why we got ripped a new asshole in bfa
hearty portal
I have played everything from start to cata. Then i quit and started in BFA again
junior igloo
The reason I mention it is that tanks weren't rebalanced in those patches and some classes just stayed significantly stronger the the entire tier, so sadly there is that precedent
knotty apex
@tight tree take into consideration that IP and SB work in conjunction with eachother, kinda get rekt if we don't have one without the other
I thought I ssaid that if not I meant to ssay it now
wouldn't mind 75% instead of 50 though lol
onyx vessel
in mop shield barrier was dumb cuz of vengence
tight tree
Not the case, IP not meant to be up all the time.
hearty portal
@junior igloo an important question is tho. Could all classes tank all content? Or was it just a few that couldnt
I dont care if we are the strongest
knotty apex
well I mean, when you're actively tanking the boss I meant
static pilot
I gotta say Bonestorm is the most satisfying defensive CD I've ever used in m+
hearty portal
I want us to be ABLE to do all content
knotty apex
atm we can
onyx vessel
we can
vital wren
Im using IP proactively all the time, shielding bigger hits if possible
static pilot
Big enough pack and it's more or less 10 sec of immortality
knotty apex
with the exception of " some" bosses in uldir
hearty portal
Then go kill fettid for me
knotty apex
normal heroic mythic?
vital wren
Btw Last stand heal can crit y?
ember arrow
ye
hearty portal
Mythic
knotty apex
you can probably MT fetid
but you can't OT
not in the current state
which is why I said " some " bosses in uldir
hearty portal
Ooh really
vital wren
I tried OTing normal first week, not a good idea lol
tight tree
We are with insane healers and insane CD planning and raid babysitting you. it is possible but everyone CBA. I am sure Sense and other top warriors will clear Uldir on mythic pretty soon.
hearty portal
And thats not an issue?
vital wren
Does BDK have Death Strike scaling to dmg taken last secs ?
vital wren
Gg
static pilot
Fetid's whole thing is large predictable blockable physical burst damage. That used to be the thing for warriors, our nr 1 thing :-/
ember arrow
its a bit too frequent
hearty portal
I would love a simple reason that i just suck and hence fettid is impossible. But no other guild in the world have tanked him with a warrior successfully
tight tree
As i said. numerically weak
static pilot
You can also boost that healing in various ways, such as by using blood boil first
knotty apex
probably not OT'd it
vital wren
How about monk and stackins dodge chance for Terrible Thrash ? Worksfor dodging it completely as OFFTANK?
tight tree
There are no kills but plenty of tries
knotty apex
he was the only warrior I saw that was clearing mythic on first week as a prot warrior
tight tree
Dont think that TT is dodgeable
ember arrow
@vital wren terrible thrash cant be dodged, paried
tight tree
otherwise could cheese it with elusive brawler
ember arrow
logs
knotty apex
WOw he actually hasnt killed fetid on mythic im surprised lol
ember arrow
@static pilot blood boil does no healing
junior igloo
@hearty portal
That's a question that's not specific enough.
Of course, eventually you will overgear it, bosses will get nerfed and you will be able to tank it on any class.
But you can also eventually replace a healer with a rogue or a buyer. Does that make rogues "viable" healers? I don't think so.
For example, the common tactic on Star Augur (where warriors were bad), was to solo tank.
I don't know if it was possible to solo tank on a warrior, but nobody managed to do it.
There were a couple of guilds who decided to 2 tank instead.
And of course, the boss got nerfed after which it was doable to tank on any class (although still much harder on some).
static pilot
@levko it does indirectly by increasing the healing of your next death strike
ember arrow
@static pilot its not something u keep track of
knotty apex
lol
static pilot
Build up a 5-stack before your next DS and it'll heal for 100% more
static pilot
Maybe you don't, I find it very useful
tight tree
Some classes just have more cheese potential by design. Monk and DK are 2 of them. If that is what you like in a tank, rerolling is one option. People love warriors not because they can cheese. They love warrior because they are strudy as fuck walls of steel. Only that is not the case right now.
hearty portal
Awell i guess we have to start looking for a monk/dk
static pilot
Thanks for the correction, I was thinking of the shoulders modifier. Still worth paying attention to :)
hearty portal
Since thats the only advice so far ^&
ember arrow
not really, on aoe it stacks too quickly, on ST it doenst stack enough
vital wren
@tight tree exactly my words "!
static pilot
I don't have a problem stacking it 2-3 times when you know a big hit is coming
tight tree
I see nothing wrong with bringing my brewmaster for boss or 2 when it is hard for warrior. Just like i got my guardian and warrior for Varimathras mythic prog. Such is life.
junior igloo
I mean sure, different classes have different niches and shine on different bosses, that's fine.
junior igloo
I don't think that people complain about DKs being favored on Zek'voz for mass grip or Mythrax for grips.
The problem is that they are favored on all bosses because they are overall tuned higher
astral crystal
seems to me like there's no actual niche for warriors to occupy since niches are usually defined by an encounter's mechanic that can be circumvented by a particular ability... which pretty much only means pallies and DKs have niches, druids stoo i guess
also i was sat for zekvoz and they had a dps dk go blood for the fight
that's kind of lame that a fight is designed around a singular ability
because some dev jackoff obviously mains bdk and wants everyone to know about it
tight tree
@vital wren Yes, it is just game meta changed so much and people got use to cheese. Warrior is a class for oldschool people, who want no fancy spell flashes and the likes. But Inside our class fantasy there is so many things that can be done, and they stripped us to bare bones.
hexed lion
Hey guys, any posts or rumours about any Prot changes to come?
junior igloo
Well, yeah, nothing to the level of mass grip or even Spellwarding/bubble etc.
But we have Battle Cry + Rallying Cry which is always useful + good mobility and AoE stun which is a small plus here and there.
Overall utility wise we are fine.
The 2 big issues are the talents inflexibility and quite simply numbers being too low.
junior igloo
We just have 10 % less hp than most other tanks, I can't see a good reason for it
astral crystal
again just taking zekvoz as an example
what reason would you have to put a prot warr there instead of a bdk and a brm?
tight tree
Well i think they tried to make bosses that favor classes (zek = BM buster, but favors DK etc) but with tuning that intention went to shit
astral crystal
that's the kind of asinine design that just makes no sense to me
vital wren
Tbh we double prot warr tank and it's K
astral crystal
on mythic?
tight tree
Zek is good for prot
red heron
ppl, just a question .... do DC stack?
vital wren
Legendary diff
astral crystal
because you really want crazy good add control for mythic
and that's why you put BDKs in
astral crystal
i know you dont need it
ember arrow
but massgrip helps alot
astral crystal
but it's the most efficient way to do the encounter
ember arrow
dk can do both 😉
astral crystal
"you dont need it" is not the argument
flat root
Lol glad im not the only one who switched to Blood
astral crystal
because it's how the fight will be done by the vast majority of players
tight tree
Welp, still not Aggrammar level of grip wanking
vital wren
Main thing to learn as a prot warrior when tanking = learn to shoutout for snipe heals, works in my guild
astral crystal
you could permaslow adds on aggramar as well, it still would make the encounter 2x as hard
vital wren
U have to be smart and keep healers updated frequently
tight tree
I just call externals when needed ;/
vital wren
BDK is like = fuck off Imma just heal myself heal others K?
tight tree
They can look for shield block icon themselves anyway
BDK is not THAT high level of selfheal
They cannot keep themselves
flat root
I just have a better time as BDK now.
Prot I always felt stressed and on the edge of wiping
flat root
If they bring IP off the gcd i'd probably go back to prot and switch my DK to Frost or something for sick deeps
astral crystal
idk i had a different experience with m zekvoz
flat root
Yep lmao
junior igloo
The broken talents really bother me more every day though
ember arrow
@flat root i liek it though
astral crystal
barely any tank damage, tons of raid dmg
ember arrow
memes aside
flat root
The aesthetic of Frost is probably my favorite in the game
astral crystal
you mean on other tanks or on prot, meiffert?
junior igloo
On prot
vital wren
Ive always wanted to try BFA frost mage and step from melee a bit
astral crystal
because there's plenty of broken to go around on different ends of the spectrum
either op or total shit
flat root
I dont know if it's the decade of conditioning i've had for melee classes but I just cant get into casters
I always try but never can get into them
flat root
Hunters are cool
full terrace
Try bm hunter it's like a melee just with range xD
vital wren
Dude survival hunter seems really fun, we have a good one in our guild, top notch double freezing traps, top notch dps, good mobility etc... seems really fun
static pilot
Bm is a good transition from melee to range. Babysitting the pet is the only downside
flat root
I have a VE hunter I boosted with my free boost back in Legion so I might try and get that to 120
ember arrow
@static pilot jut put /petattack onto every ability
taht way your pet wont keep attacking smt u arent
static pilot
I meant more along the ways of having it not pull shit by accident
junior igloo
Like BV is balanced around Demo Shout being used once in 45s.
Bolster is balanced around 2 minute cooldown.
UF is balanced around Avatar on 90s cooldown.
Anger Management just breaks it completely.
AM itself is balanced around "regular" cooldowns, not around cooldowns buffed by BV/Bolster/UF making them so much stronger
static pilot
AFAIK it's 6 yards less, not 6 yards
flat root
@junior igloo I didnt like that I absolutely HAVE to take BV no matter what just to not be rage starved
full terrace
Well if you jump down from a ledge it can pull a lot
static pilot
And I still see plenty of pets pulling stuff by accident
astral crystal
they're strong, but that's not really a huge issue... imagine prot without AM right now
static pilot
Exactly
astral crystal
we'd be absolutely unplayable
red heron
just a question on the middel of all 😄 is DC stackable?
static pilot
Remember the nexus skip back in LK?
astral crystal
and regrettably that's just how arrogant blizzard design is
vital wren
deafening crash OP
static pilot
The damage on DC stacks, the DS uptime does not
red heron
thx @static pilot
vital wren
from all the shits we have, DC is really good
flat root
Wasn't IP like waaay better in the beta?
static pilot
Anytime
full terrace
IP is awful being on gdc...
static pilot
Depends on when you ask, they removed IP completely for about half of beta
junior igloo
For example - look at off-tanking Fetid:
- You get hit every 6s with a massive blow.
- Shield Block has 6s duration.
It's just so perfect to use Heavy Repercussions, because with just a single SS in the Shield Block, you can now block 2 Thrashes with every Shield Block.
It literally doubles our Shield Block on that fight.
And I'm not even sure if it's worth using because the synergy between AM and the cooldown enhancing talents is just so overpowered
static pilot
Then it came back at the tail end
flat root
@full terrace Yes
full terrace
You always have to decide between staying alive and maintaining aggro lol
ember arrow
its one and the same
at least on most classes
the things that do dmg usualy generate resources
flat root
I'd just started mashing tab and hitting every target in a group pull at least once
astral crystal
i just want class hegemonization back
static pilot
I mean... I understand the decision process they want to have
astral crystal
every class has a niche turned into just bring the best class that's best because every encounter is designed to favor them
ember arrow
@astral crystal https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465508687356887045/492324983247208452/unknown.png
NO
static pilot
As a blood DK on a pull you have to balance aoe threat with bone shield stacks
flat root
Also, oddly enough the best healer I ever had was a Holy paladin in some weird tuxedo transmog who at the end used the fucking GARRISON HEARTHSTONE to leave the dungeon
static pilot
Comparable doesn't mean identical does it?
ember arrow
so because prot warr is bad, everyoneshould be as bad?
astral crystal
that's not my reasoning
ember arrow
instaed of trying to fix prot, we try to undermine rest?
vital wren
anything besides a prot warr is paper tbh
astral crystal
🤔
static pilot
If you have four decent cars and two clunkers in your car pool you don't get rid of the cars that work
vital wren
U just gotta go in there, smash em with demo and TC spam with avatar = profit
static pilot
Battle shout = consumable
vital wren
Btw Rallying Cry saved our raid many times
static pilot
Commanding shout =brought by any warrior spec
astral crystal
dps warr doesnt get gimped for battleshout or rallying cry
vital wren
Dunno about your raids
astral crystal
yep but there's infinitely more value in having two bops than there is having two rallying cries
ember arrow
how so?
static pilot
Where's the war scroll for bop and loh?
astral crystal
immunities are just stronger
astral crystal
idk about you guys but when rallying cry is used it's usually in conjunction with some other CD
junior igloo
Rally is way better than BoP in a raid
ember arrow
^
vital wren
15% max HP on everyone very low with boss having 1-4% (5%) HP might be a difference between kill and a wiped, gotta time it right
earnest zinc
Are there any fights you recommend using stam flasks?
astral crystal
it's' still nowhere near the utility you get from an immunity, that's going to become abundantly clear on later uldir boss fights
earnest zinc
I found it better for Zul, though that's mainly since my pallys suck
sick sentinel
I actually wish they would look at hearthstone for warrior inspiration. There’s some cool “build up armor and destroy the armor to do damage” mechanics
earnest zinc
I never get that debuff BoPd off
astral crystal
or look at d3 barb
knotty apex
@full terrace avatar thunderclap
static pilot
Okay, let's turn it around. Levko, are you happy with the range of party and raid utility warriors bring to m+ and raids compared to other tanks?
vital wren
How about giving shield slam the ability to give us a shield, depending on how much IP absorb is there left?
ember arrow
@static pilot no
full terrace
@knotty apex thats not the same
static pilot
What do you think is the issue?
vital wren
idd
junior igloo
BoP is quite useful on a few bosses, don't get me wrong.
But you only need so many. And you always have at least one holy paladin.
On most fights having a 20 % heal/max HP increase for the whole raid is really good. Rally is a full on raid cooldown, which are otherwise reserved to healers
knotty apex
50% cd and 100% increased damage is a threat generation if that's not better than an AOE taunt Idk what is lol
earnest zinc
It's weaker than most of the other tanks, but the difference is small enough when played well that it doesn't matter except for BE guilds.
ember arrow
no way to displace/silence mobs , no self heal, weak secondary AM, and clunky rotation
vital wren
My propsal is to basically boost shield slam to gain an absorb shield (up to 20-30% absorb of IP absorb total amount left on you)
full terrace
You have to burn multiple gcds for it to generate decent aggro
sick sentinel
The problem is we can’t recover HP. From a healer perspective, it doesn’t matter if we are a wall. If a DK tanks more damage and then self heals, the DK, even though it takes more damage, requires less effective healing
full terrace
Shout is instant
vital wren
That wont happen
knotty apex
@full terrace idk what to tell you man 🤷
earnest zinc
Just give us better shield block uptime and make it block anything armor reduces the damage of and we are good.
For M+
sick sentinel
@earnest zinc amen
static pilot
Thanks for sharing Levko, I'd agree with... Well, all of that actually
astral crystal
like i said though, just bring a dps warrior. my reasoning is this: if you bring a dps monk for ring, you're gimping his damage, so you bring a brm who has excellent damage smoothing, an array of cooldowns and can spec rop without repercussions. bdk obviously has grip, pallies have bops,wards and sacs, which is polyvalent raid cheesing that no other class has
ember arrow
@static pilot in raids, controlling mobs isnt always relevant, and self heal is irrelevant on all tanks except bdk
since bosses hit harder than anyone but bdk can do relevant self healing on
astral crystal
a raid-wide 15% health bonus is great of course, but just bring one or two dps warriors
problem solved
junior igloo
@sick sentinel
I don't think we require more healing.
In our group DP takes more damage, does more selfhealing and the end result is that both of us require similar external healing
full terrace
@nEILL I just meant that with everything on gcd it would be better to have an instant taunt
The everything on gcd sucks the most
earnest zinc
You can't just wing it like Brew or BDK as Prot Warrior
static pilot
Token objection for DH but overall I'd agree with that too. So overall warriors are more attractive in raiding since some of their slack is picked up by other classes
earnest zinc
Since those tanks have reactive mitigation
ember arrow
@static pilot dh has better than dk self heal on aoe
not ST
bosses
spirit bomb is 40% of dmg taken
DS is 25%
static pilot
No self healing is fine since you have a dedicated healer, no range interrupt/grip is fine since other tank or dps can help gather mobs etc
junior igloo
How do you profit from a broken class that has rage as resource, but can't use it on anything and macros off-GCD 50 % reduction into every button? @vital wren
vital wren
We have a dedicated pally healer that cares mostly of the 2 warr tanks (2nd tank is a backup one)
So far so good
grim prism
@full terrace taunt is off-GCD tho 
full terrace
@grim prism i was talking about getting back challenging shout 😋
astral crystal
what for?
full terrace
M+
astral crystal
still confused how that would help our situation in m+
full terrace
Until I have activated avatar and demo shout I most likely lose my aggro
static pilot
Aoe threat isn't normally a Prot warrior issue
Pop avatar pre pull, tc once, then ds
astral crystal
^that
static pilot
Then start tc weaving
You lose about 2 sec of effective avatar uptime but the Bladestorming arms warrior will likely survive
arctic pelican
Never had threat issues. Had getting hit like a truck issues tho
static pilot
^
arctic pelican
Dying in an m2 kings at 355 to a zerker, is pathetic
arctic pelican
Healer was jerking off tho 😂😂
signal plover
Zerker dots hurt errybody
arctic pelican
Yea
manic perch
does anyone know what WA 's @shut summit is using?
signal plover
His own
arctic pelican
That healer made me sad. I havjt tanked since lol
full terrace
Well one or two weeks ago atal dazar was bugged... Most mob packs were doubled
That was fun
uneven mason
IT was training for teeming
full terrace
Yeah...
craggy harness
was it the week with the dead puddles
full terrace
Teeming is fun too
dusk locust
speaking of atal is it just me or is one of the totems bugged, and doesn't actually affect the big guys at all (near the beginning of the dungeon to the right)
steel mauve
AD was just bugged for the world quest, instead of the mobs being dead they were dead and spawned on the next group basically
craggy harness
ah, so "fine" in m+
jade tartan
PTR today boys?
manic perch
and they dungeon WA's making all the sounds?
grim prism
@dusk locust I've definitely seen bugs in Atal but that's a new one
dusk locust
seems fairly consistent to me. there's one pack where when i pull it, the two big guys start shooting green stuff immediately
totem untouched
it may be a pack that people traditionally skip i'm not sure
mellow bridge
Most groups only do one big totem guy group if even that
steel mauve
Ive never seen them start doing the aoe until the totem dies
hearty portal
PTR comes at the end of next week (maybe)
dusk locust
that's kind of a funny thing about so far having exclusively tanked... don't have other tanks to watch for other possible routes unless i go looking for videos and twitch streams 😛
steel mauve
I have seen dps just insta nuke the totem off the bat and kill it in like 2 seconds though
Theres a route to do the big boss first so you need to do like 3 totem pulls for that route
mellow bridge
I usually jump down to rezan first
kill him, then walk back up clear the dinos on the way
and then make my way left to the priestess
dusk locust
i've heard of that route i'd like to try it
steel mauve
I would rather deal with the totem guys than the priestess trash
I do rezan first then go through totems
old zephyr
best route is
Go to rezan ASAP and BL him
go kill the first 3 packs on the way t priest then go to volk
you can skip most of the corridor
kill thrash to get Lust CD then lust Volk (or the nasty pack in front of him)
then go to priest without Lust and finish with last boss and lust
don't pull big dinos in the middle and it's perfect 100%
kind urchin
Speaking of WQ in dungeons... How about that one in KR the other day. That was a nightmare.
near shard
Do you guys have a good youtube/twitch channel that mostly plays prot warr now?
old zephyr
I usually kill the small lizard on the way to rezan because he is usually to far to pull him anyway
Also I think LoSing the fear in the stairs is not the best place to do it
there is tructures on the right in the river where you can LoS and be on the right side for pursuit
dark junco
Hey I got some Zul heroics logs, can anyone go over and help me out on zul ? I was getting torn to shreds on p2
dark junco
I tried everything to keep me alive, but the damage intake was overboard with the dots and I wasn't getting enough heals.
near shard
@manic perch tyvm
manic perch
np bro watching him now, so good 😛
astral crystal
@shut summit daily request for 8.1 spoilers
knotty ermine
Snape kills dumbledor and usurps him as the Loa of hogwarts
topaz cove
lol
strong forum
Well on zul you're not supposed to take more than 2-3,
That's why you save Lust for p2, heavy tank damage
Which quickly limits your real estate
signal plover
We actually 3 tank HC Zul just to limit the tank bullshittery. The DoT hits very hard and can't rly be mitigated
BoP to drop it early help a bunch too
But pallies have to follow you out
dusk locust
we've been 2 tanking and brezzing but it's sloppy af
signal plover
The DPS check is easily doable with 3 tanks
dusk locust
yeah
we just got h g'huun yesterday but had a heck of a time of it. 2 tanking seemed alright though i see a fair number do 3 tanks
i think our issue was more the raid dying to p3 mechanics
strong forum
We just grug down zul, dps race him
strong forum
3tanking ghuun is useless
signal plover
The dmg isn't that bad once the raid learns mechanics.
signal plover
Would also recommend only clearing tanks plus 3rd P2 orb runner on 1st blood feast
dusk locust
that's exactly what we're doing, though we've been throwing healers into it as well
signal plover
Everyone else on 2nd and dunk the orb as soon as the blood feast circle spawns
signal plover
Don't add healers imo, keep that 1st add small
dusk locust
on our kill we actually had everyone soak the 1st add and beamed that, but we don't quite get to p3 after beam that way. going to go back to beaming 2nd add next time
signal plover
Also spell reflect as many explosive corruptions as you can (they tennis ball to other raiders but yolo)
dusk locust
i'm reflecting as many of those as i can. unfortunately the bigwigs countdown is bugged for it so i keep missing it
strong forum
Not really necessary, I tanked normal ghuun up until 23 stacks so on HC you could probably tank like 15
blissful imp
It has a cast time though. Just hit it when he casts it
strong forum
If absolutely necessary
dusk locust
p3 he was absolutely wrecking me
p2 i could go higher in stacks
not sure what the diff is
blissful imp
You can spell reflect every single one he casts on you if you are tank swapping at the bursting corruption cast
Tank second so you can reflect the second and fourth casts
dusk locust
what we're doing is swapping on 5 which lets me bait all of them. i can SR half and just leap out with the others
blissful imp
And then you can get in the second blood feast cause you just spend reflect the corruption he casts right after second bloodfeast
dusk locust
ya
wild bolt
Reflecting the Corruptions feels pretty awesome. I almost reflected all the ones cast at me last night, just derped out and missed one. Pretty fun fight actually. The way swaps line up you can maintain seriously high effective uptime on SB and DS, which makes a huge difference in your DTPS while tanking. The mechanics of G'huun actually play to our strengths pretty well.
shut summit
@astral crystal 🙊
ember arrow
what'd he say?
signal plover
Just trying to weasel out any 8.1 info
uneven mason
@dark junco You let your Demo and Avatar become desynced really bad when you took Zul at the end there, you lost a ton of uptime, and thus took a huge spike of damage, I can only see 1 fight though (the kill), but guessing that this is a frequent mistake (its a common one) You're also not using IP enough, you blow A L O T of rage on Revenge rather than IP (reverse that). You're wasting a L O T of uptime on Last Stand (1 cast out of a potential 5) Shield Wall (1 cast of 3)
Its like...you have to build a table from scratch, and you're using a hand screwdriver to put it together rather than a powerdrill.
(Making it harder on yourself from not using the tools given)
dusk locust
i find that avatar is often available 10 seconds or so before demo is. do you generally use avatar as a demo-lengthening cd and always seek to combine them?
fleet ridge
I always thought you use avatar and demo together; since that's the biggest chance of extending the debuff.
dusk locust
yeah that's probably correct. i've been doing a poor job of getting that done though need to work on it
mellow bridge
"Avatar Icon Avatar should be cast on cooldown as well. It is worth delaying Demoralizing Shout Icon Demoralizing Shout by a few seconds if Avatar is about to come off cooldown. Do not delay Avatar for Demoralizing Shout."
in the guide
dusk locust
if i play it that way they desync
prisma night
If you do it properly from the get go they never desync
dusk locust
hm
prisma night
Its only when you delay one or forgot one came off cd that they desync
dusk locust
i think for me it happens if, say, demo is off cd but i'm on a trash pack that's almost dead so it's a waste
and i use it later
(in m+)
prisma night
Yeah
red heron
could someone recommend me about a addon that say in group my stuns or lost of controls?
fleet ridge
Demo is 1/2 the cooldown of avatar, so you should be able to use 2 demos for every avatar, i believe
fossil sparrow
is archive any good for prot?
fossil sparrow
..not in uldir
hexed lion
yea i was having this convo with someone earlier
i suppose it depends on wether you have the demo shout trait or not
fossil sparrow
even with prot being shit, it beats seeing 90% of the m+ list with no tank
either archive or callous reprisal, the revenge one
hexed lion
fuck the revenge one
fossil sparrow
with..double deafening crash
hexed lion
just go 1 deafening
fossil sparrow
was my 370 chest from last weeks weekly so
hexed lion
only stacks once
hexed lion
😛
hexed lion
i use it, and i really like it
ideal setup
IMO
is prob 1 shield slam 1 deafening 1 archive
fossil sparrow
revenge trait or shield slam trait
fossil sparrow
knew I'd hate having so many azerite pieces
having to sift through what I've got is ..awful
hexed lion
i dont think it should
fossil sparrow
even then, it's..still shit
hexed lion
because we wont have enough rage to spam it
fossil sparrow
it doesn't scale like atall
fossil sparrow
legion IP was..decent
hexed lion
taking it off the gcd kinda breaks our rotation
fossil sparrow
quit before nighthold so, looks like it went downhill after
dusk locust
between amount and % i'd rather amount just to smooth damage out better
grim prism
NH prot was best prot
hexed lion
yea same tbf
short mist
how do you guys work in ignore pain
grim prism
Too bad the fights sucked for us
fossil sparrow
IP was felt fairly strong as/when druids got buffed
hexed lion
in downtime or if i have spare rage
fossil sparrow
and could..eat everything
tulip pond
Krosus * shivers *
short mist
block to block too ignore pain back to 2 blocks?
hexed lion
yea
grim prism
IP needs to get cast WAY more often than just to fill block downtime
IP is not real mitigation, it is a supplement
hexed lion
herein lies the problem 😛
dawn glade
say, if i wana progress in m+ this tier, should i just reoll now or you guys think warriors will be viable ever ?
fossil sparrow
instantly
hexed lion
we are viable now
grim prism
Plus you need to cast it to advance anger mgmt
hexed lion
just not AS strong as other tanks
dawn glade
okey so none option for high keys ?`
grim prism
@dawn glade how would you define "viable"
fossil sparrow
will we have a place in m+? probably
we had a place in legion
from what I remember
hexed lion
we do now, our damage is untouchable
hexed lion
i beat dps on trash packs
fossil sparrow
damage is great and all
but when you die 3x faster than other tanks
a tanks job isnt damage
it's to absorb it
hexed lion
idd
dawn glade
yeah i feel to squishy on my warrior,
hexed lion
but thats a choice you have to make
you spend on damage when you can
and focus on surviving when need to
plus i think if your healer is a priest
you aint doing shit
dawn glade
the survival is not enough tho as far
fossil sparrow
funny that, I've not see a priest in any of my groups yet
dawn glade
im struggling in +8s
fossil sparrow
not a single one
hexed lion
Just take in health pots, armor pots
remember to kite when possible
use shockwave to give you a breather
grim prism
Uhh raider.io scales fairly linearly with +n level, so to get 3.8k m+ score you would literally need to complete every current m+ dungeon on a +38
calm whale
Are priest heals not solid atm? Been running all my m+ with a disc
ember arrow
+38
grim prism
So no, literally nobody is viable by your standard
ember arrow
sign me up
fossil sparrow
best t2 trait?
dawn glade
not when i was rank 2 dk in legion as blood, and now getting crushed s warrior
grim prism
Well this isnt legion guy
fossil sparrow
is harder than a +15 lats week
hexed lion
not true
fossil sparrow
the jist still stands
hexed lion
requires more thought
grim prism
Not true lol
hexed lion
be a proactive prot warrior, not a reactive one
grim prism
Its fort week with shit affixes, its not an easy week, but lets not be hyperbolic
dawn glade
but like, ignore pain ignoring 26k dmg for 40 rage feeels just incredibly low
hexed lion
Just honestly, hang in there, get some practice in stay positive, we will be getting looked at im sure
dawn glade
the activie mitigation and healer reliance feels aweful
grim prism
IP is undertuned
hexed lion
work on your arms spec
grim prism
We wont be getting looked at seriously
dawn glade
yeah i get the feeling too
ember arrow
all tanks are healer reliant
grim prism
Classes with much more representation have much bigger issues
fossil sparrow
"all tanks"
dawn glade
not true levko.
ember arrow
its true
dawn glade
its not, but w/e
ember arrow
you can have your wrong opinion all you want
grim prism
And prot has been kind of the forgotten since two expacs ago
hexed lion
how can you say a blood dk is healer reliant
fossil sparrow
you're in the minority
hexed lion
yes
dawn glade
haha
fossil sparrow
prot warriors follow an archetype that doesn't fit the current game
dawn glade
well big groups thinking same thing does not mean it must be right. :nazi germany: 🤔
grim prism
BDKs dont need healers and +8 forts are harder than +15 tyrans
grim zenith
i mean if you're saying "they need heals in a m+10 at the beginning of an expansion" then yes, all tanks are healer reliant. but if you don't think DKs and to an extend, DHs have control over their health bar, you're lying to yourself.
grim prism
Its spicy in here today boiz
gleaming jacinth
mained blood dk through legion, can confirm not healer reliant
ember arrow
is this legion?
grim prism
^
ember arrow
in bfa, the current expansion, blood death knights need a healer
since they dont heal the dmg they take back fully
fossil sparrow
each tank has a class design, a basis
gleaming jacinth
lies
fossil sparrow
as does each healer
limber tulip
Blood is healer reliant now
gleaming jacinth
death strike?
hexed lion
There's nothing to gain with this discussion really
limber tulip
much moreso than we were in legion
ember arrow
victory rush?
grim prism
Death strike isnt going to indefinitely sustain a solo tank in relevant content
fossil sparrow
you..did
ember arrow
quote me
fossil sparrow
are you a goldfish?
grim prism
Which is why BDKs bring healers
ember arrow
go
grim prism
Really hard shit guys
stuck oxide
DK are way better than any tank in m+
ember arrow
@hexed lion which is true
limber tulip
@hexed lion can you show me logs of a dk doing >80% of their own healing?
fossil sparrow
it's a dumb generalisation to make
ember arrow
nowhere does it say "bdk are equally healer reliant as prot warrior"
hexed lion
yea prob
ember arrow
ok go
gleaming jacinth
the whole basis of the blood dk is self healing so they are clearly not as healer reliant as any of the other classes
hexed lion
if i could be arsed to look
ember arrow
we can wait
grim prism
Oh boy
limber tulip
then pull it up
fossil sparrow
You'l drag me down to your level
hexed lion
well where is your proof levvie boy?
fossil sparrow
and beat me with experience
hexed lion
that all tanks are healer reliant?
grim prism
I bet I could find a log of a prot war soloing +15s since they are so much easier than +8s this week
But CBA
/shrug
limber tulip
lol
fossil sparrow
all neurons are human reliant
limber tulip
fucking trolls
hexed lion
all balls are sack reliant
grim prism
@fossil sparrow not the ones in this channel
fossil sparrow
easier bleeding a brick wall
stuck oxide
All the reliant are reliant
hexed lion
Prot warrior is actually good and shit players struggle, prove me wrong
wintry ermine
you can just look at wowlogs and check how much EHRPS each tank needs, prot warriors dont require more healing than others, in m+ they have less utility.
fossil sparrow
geo, has the default talents changed the past 2weeks or?
grim prism
Well idk, apparently the r2 BDK in the world last expac cant do +8s
stuck oxide
Mdi caliber tank 🤔
fossil sparrow
all prot pallies can solo mother
potent peak
not anymore
grim prism
Lol
fossil sparrow
prove me wrong 
ember arrow
@hexed lion needing to do mroe effort to gain similar results to others, is the definition of worse
hexed lion
what
grim prism
I've seen more retarded shit in the past ten minutes here than it usually takes a full week to accrue
Holy christ
lavish talon
imgoing nuts. im trying to set up a simple WA to show the duration and absorb of my IP buff. but i cant seem to get an string for the absorb. anyone get a solution?
fossil sparrow
prot warriors are the worst tank
stuck oxide
We wont see any prot warrior in the next MDI... maybe we will see Sense
hexed lion
so hunters are a better dps class because you dont have to push as many buttons?
idiot
fossil sparrow
makes me laugh every week during raid
ember arrow
did i mention buttons?
hexed lion
in essence yes
fossil sparrow
xD
ember arrow
no i didnt
grim prism
@lavish talon use full scan, use "tooltip value as stacks", use %s in display
hexed lion
define more effort levko
ember arrow
more punishing on mistakes, having weaker secondary AM
stuck oxide
Less forgiving
grim prism
If you mean you want to actually have a progressbar that displays the amount graphically, you would have to handcode it
hexed lion
ergo you spending more time pushing buttons
hexed lion
as apposed to a BM who staggers
stuck oxide
Last boss of motherluled
stuck oxide
Just dodge
fossil sparrow
bottom? no
hexed lion
just done die 4head
ember arrow
im not salty at all, i dont even play prot
fossil sparrow
clunky as fuck
I couldn't give a shit if we were bottom yet had a functional rotation
lavish talon
@grim prism where do i find those settings? ^^
hexed lion
^
main karma
why does prot take soo much dmg? i spent 4 hours after raid, after heroic zul all night researching logs, kills and many forums and even the discord....general consensus is obviously prot is terrible and we take the most dmg out of the tanks. Even with all the cd's I have its terrible
ember arrow
too bad i played it for 126 days in legion though
grim prism
@dawn glade go fail some more +8s mister r2
main karma
my best idea.....remove ignore pain give us 100% uptime on shield block
then tune mastery to balance the deduction
right now raid buffed i sit at 37-39% master wich correlates to that in reduced dmg by blocks....problem is if shield block isn't always up and ignore pain isn't enough to cover the downtime
gleaming jacinth
126 exactly?
grim prism
@lavish talon in the "triggers" tab
signal plover
Zul is a tough one to beat yourself up over. The Tank dot is ridiculous
dawn glade
@grim prism who said i failed, i said its a strugle.
ember arrow
i know how prot works, youre the one disagreeing that all tanks need healer, yet im the clueless one
stuck oxide
🤯🤪
fossil sparrow
You need a doctor
dawn glade
just block him, obvious troll
astral crystal
sense's reply to my request for 8.1 spoilers was a monkey covering his mouth... the average person would interpret this as him keeping his mouth shut about it, but i know the truth. WE'RE GETTING AN AOE SILENCE BOIS
dawn glade
i just did
ember arrow
personal attacks wont make my statements less true
hexed lion
lmfao
grim prism
@mods pls
ember arrow
ping valkyr
fossil sparrow
this is more entertaining than a +10 shrine
grim prism
1800
ember arrow
@hexed lion if i dont play prot, im prohibited from joining skyhold?
how is that relevant at all
hexed lion
nah man, just wondering why you're in this channel causing shit
grim prism
This is the level of discourse we're at today
lavish talon
@grim prism i finally got it. thank you so much
fossil sparrow
I'm no doctor, hence why I don't go to doctors conferences
hexed lion
when we're trying to talk and help each other with prot
ember arrow
@fossil sparrow this is a public discord though, not a private one, so thats a terrible analogy
hexed lion
you adding in some none prot related nonsense isnt helping
and the fact that any insight you may have is questionable due to you confessing you don't actualyl play the spec
ember arrow
what nonsense do you speak of?
hexed lion
lmfao
fossil sparrow
preparing
grim prism
Levko has been a regular in this channel since last expac. You guys are not trying to "help each other with prot", you are dickwaving over smoothbrain-tier pvp achievements and crying because you cant timer +8s
hexed lion
what is your main levvi?
fossil sparrow
nothing much, you'd look even more foolish though
ember arrow
yes
ember arrow
🤔
thorn narwhal
🤔
grim prism
hardcore thonking
ember arrow
thats one of the msot nonsensical things ive read
grim prism
For real @final mist this is getting excessive even for my tastes this morning
Ordinarily I'm the last person to legitimately ping mods but I feel like I'm losing brain cells here by the minute
hexed lion
cool
ember arrow
im in tihs channel, because i used to paly prot, i love warrior, and i hope that it will improve over the course of BFA, so i wantto keep up with updates @hexed lion
thats why im in this discord
grim prism
Everyone just shut the fuck up or take it to #ot ffs
thorn narwhal
🤔
hexed lion
literally i started by helping kekkers
fossil sparrow
...we're on about prot tho
thorn narwhal
OK bye
grim prism
Youre on about legion tanks and how BDKs can solo 15s
hexed lion
i wasnt lmfao
grim prism
Not prot
young harbor
is the cleave on fetid blockable
fossil sparrow
..contextually it was
grim prism
@young harbor yes
young harbor
ty
ember arrow
@young harbor terrible thrash is
hexed lion
thats what he means
ember arrow
its not a cleave
ember arrow
👍
wild bolt
@young harbor Give this a look over. Extremely well put together document for ways you can use your defensives vs. specfic encounters: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRvMMhBT1xyvECDvAlxXirfLYtgzYZ18vjY3zRyA4LU7NgVg5Vmj-MroMT5W6i94q0aYNodyer0hbZ3/pubhtml#
young harbor
ah ty kindly
grim prism
@primal crypt howd that UR 10 go
primal crypt
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