protection

[astral crystal]

the dream

[junior igloo]

That's the unique characters vs. run frequency setting means

[knotty ermine]

OHHHHHHHHH Okay, didn't see that setting

Cool, thanks for correcting me

[valid gorge]

I'm not getting something here

[knotty ermine]

so each character counting once, is that once total, or once per dungeon (i.e. your best overall run for the week versus you best run per dungeon)

[valid gorge]

you link our m+ representation stats that show that we are 5% on +10 keys and this is somehow good news?

what?

[noble solar]

guys

[valid gorge]

or were you being sarcastic

[noble solar]

where on the map Hexers spanw in zul?

[valid gorge]

was it 2% last week or smth?

[knotty ermine]

I was looking at things from an analytics standpoint (even though the data set is incomplete) and I guess it seemed promising to me that DK representation is a far greater outlier than warrior

[valid gorge]

Ah, so you're saying the data points to DK's being too strong being probably a bigger problem than prot being too weak?

i can follow that

[knotty ermine]

not sunshine and rainbows, but it is, from that perspective, a bit better outlook than the doom and gloom that currently exists

[valid gorge]

makes sense

[knotty ermine]

Yep

[valid gorge]

not the whole picture, but it's certainly not a wrong way to look at it

[odd ledge]

talking about outliers

[valid gorge]

who is the one person that did a m+25 on a druid

[grim prism]

PROT BETTER THAN BRM CONFIRMED

[valid gorge]

that poor poor soul

[odd ledge]

with this rate we'll have perfect tank balance by 10.0

[brave jetty]

It can be the case that DK is an outlier and needs pushed down AND also be the case that we still need to be brought up a bit

[valid gorge]

if you look at the +15 key stats the differences become extreme

[knotty ermine]

Right. Looking at the current data that exists, all tanks are represented fairly well, and as soon as you start pushing keys up, the data is biased heavily towards DKs, with all other tanks relative positions to eachother remaining somewhat constant. That, to me, says that DKs are too powerful at the moment when it comes to m+ and the 3 affixes we've had.

[brave jetty]

And we still definitely have some QOL things that should be tweaked that aren't necessarily straight buffs

[valid gorge]

but they're not really that usefull because there is no real benefit right now to anything above +10

[odd ledge]

While I have very limited experience with warriors, I believe the issue is not DKs, it's warriors

[wild bolt]

I would like to formally take back everything I said yesterday about Fort/Teeming being less of a problem than Sanguine/Narrow Hallways was in week 1. I had not attempted a +10 Underrot yet....I just...I didn't know. I didn't know. I can't imagine any tank surviving either of the last pulls before 1st boss w/ double Matrons in them.

[odd ledge]

blood, prot (the one that works), brew and veng all are strong in m+, they just aren't equally popular.

[brave jetty]

Underrot you pretty much HAVE to skip some of the problem pulls somehow

[knotty ermine]

LOLLLL @wild bolt

[valid gorge]

that relative class representation that remains constant as you put it is still pretty depressing though

[odd ledge]

there's a very very little gap between blood and next 3

[valid gorge]

for prot

[brave jetty]

Teeming/Fort is genuine ass

The teeming affix in general should probably just be straight up removed or significantly altered

[valid gorge]

What makes you arrive at that conclusion Mostly

[final mist]

Teeming and Skittish both tbh

[valid gorge]

do you have any data to back that up?

because it smells like "imadethisup"

:D

[knotty ermine]

Idk, there's a wider gap between Blood and DH (number 3) than there is with prot and just nothing at all, so... Idk if that statement about the top 3 being close is accurate

[brave jetty]

Skittish is eh, I agree it could be removed just to replace with a more dynamic affix

or change it somehow

[final mist]

@valid gorge Chill with the passive aggressiveness.

[odd ledge]

By looking at actual runs, brm/prot/veng cleared everything that blood cleared so far (and faster, TOP KEK)

[valid gorge]

wut

[wild bolt]

Or even just to allow the affixes to cycle through faster...some of them are actually pretty fun

[odd ledge]

there are just many more bloods than other tanks in m+

which is legion's legacy

[uneven mason]

Well, its also because their toolkit was not substantially reduced

[valid gorge]

that part is probably true

[uneven mason]

it was made weaker, but they still have the best overall tank toolkit

for high keys

[ember arrow]

???

[uneven mason]

where mitigation matters a lot less than the special effects

[odd ledge]

Why reroll to something that is about as good, maybe even a bit worse, just to play something different? Blood isn't as brain dead boring as bear, after all, it doesn't encourage people to reroll.

[valid gorge]

Fairly sure it's indeed in the toolkit

[knotty ermine]

Yeah, its also a very far from complete picture. As time continues and people continue to gear up and scale, as well as seeing how things look with a complete affix cycle, I think there will be a much better look at how diff classes are performing.

[valid gorge]

the small gap you speak of is there from a mitigation standpoint

but toolkit/utility DK is king

[odd ledge]

no

[ember arrow]

I mean. To solve problems start at urself. Dont point at dks

[odd ledge]

pally would like a word

[uneven mason]

Mostly due to how punishing casters are, BDK have the interrupt tools that don't rely on interrupts or stuns, they can also eat a mistake and recover from it (Purgatory)

[valid gorge]

especially with trash being what it is

[odd ledge]

lmao

[valid gorge]

in BFA

[ember arrow]

Monk

[odd ledge]

Pally > bdk for casters

[ember arrow]

Py

[uneven mason]

Paladins have overall very strong toolkits

[final mist]

Pally utility isn't DK utility.

[ember arrow]

Paladin monk dh dk

[uneven mason]

but its different

[final mist]

DK is CC utility.

[open bluff]

death grips beat captain america? 🤔

[final mist]

Pally is group utility.

[ember arrow]

Pally is group

[odd ledge]

DKs have interrupt every gcd?

[uneven mason]

if the mob is immune to silence, BDK can still interrupt them

[odd ledge]

interrupt with 3s silence

[valid gorge]

it's the CC utility that shines the harder the m+ content gets, when trash is the main problem and not bosses

[open bluff]

not always

[odd ledge]

"immune to silence" is bullshit

[valid gorge]

I'd say the +15 stats back me up on that

[uneven mason]

@odd ledge Not all casters can be interrupted/silenced and not all ranged NPCs (Marksman for example) are casters

[open bluff]

if they're also cc immune dks can't do anything

[odd ledge]

most of those mobs aren't interrupted with grip either

[final mist]

Not everything is silenceable or interruptible, but almost all of those are still grippable.

[uneven mason]

^^^

[junior igloo]

In absolute terms, the difference between DKs and DHs/Paladins/Monks is higher, but in relative terms, there are "only" twice as many DKs.
On the other hand there are 3-4 times as many DHs/Paladins/Monks as Druids/Warriors

[odd ledge]

gripping single archer doesn't do anything good either

[open bluff]

most, yes, but not all

[uneven mason]

95% of NPCs are grippable

[odd ledge]

what's the point of gripping if mob doesn't break cast?

[uneven mason]

In the cases where the nasty isn't grippable NEARLY ALL OTHER MOBS ARE, meaning the BDK still has far greater control of the pack

[open bluff]

and it's the 1% that aren't grippable that cause dps to blame the tank for the wipe

[valid gorge]

Sanguine, f.e.

[uneven mason]

Because you can grip him to a corner and LOS his ass

[odd ledge]

LoS is extremely easy in bfa dungeons

[uneven mason]

advanced tactics bruvh

[odd ledge]

much easier than in legio

[uneven mason]

Yes, but when you're pushing timers

[odd ledge]

n

[uneven mason]

its faster to grip - duck

than to wait for his ass to come to you

[odd ledge]

it only matters in mdi format

[valid gorge]

everything is about saving time and avoiding things entirely

[uneven mason]

amazingly that is the point we're making

high keys

[odd ledge]

when you're on dungeon timer, which is 30m+, time for LoS is irrelevantly small

[knotty ermine]

LoS is easy, but takes significantly more time when you add it up over the course of a dungeon run.

[uneven mason]

when we say high keys we don't mean +10

we mean making timer on (currently) +16s and up

[final mist]

People in higher keys, which is what is being looked at, are still competing, even outside the MDI.

Which is why DK is still king.

[uneven mason]

server first +15 was a thing yes?

[odd ledge]

MDI format is exactly LOWER keys than pushing

heloooo

[valid gorge]

that's where the REAL competitive side of m+ is

[ember arrow]

world first +!5 was a pally no

[final mist]

Because their CC utility is unmatchable.

[odd ledge]

yes

[uneven mason]

yes

[valid gorge]

the people topping the leaderboards are competitive as fuck

[uneven mason]

it was a paladin

[odd ledge]

you missed my point completely

[knotty ermine]

Remember when taunt could increase a mobs speed? Pepperridge farm remembers

[uneven mason]

because the dungeon called for that type of cheese

[ember arrow]

monk does that

[odd ledge]

it really did not

[uneven mason]

Monk still has it

remember when monks taunt made the monk charge the mob?

that was hilariously bad

[zealous ore]

Remember when classes were different?

[valid gorge]

The way I see it "DK is overrepresented because of legion popularity" really doesn't hold up

they are simply better suited for m+ overall

[uneven mason]

for pushing yeah

[odd ledge]

Feel free to stay with your opinion 👌

[uneven mason]

the fact support it

[odd ledge]

If you stick to BDK it's good

[uneven mason]

its not "Opinion"

[valid gorge]

my opinion is backed up by facts and statistics

[final mist]

Let's not be condescending because we were disagreed with.

[odd ledge]

still better than lying to yourself and trying to push on warrior

😅

[uneven mason]

I'll push on warriors

because thats what I like to play

[valid gorge]

I went arms for m+ ages ago man

[uneven mason]

*shrug

[valid gorge]

i'm not a masochist

[ember arrow]

and thats fine

[valid gorge]

:D

[uneven mason]

I'm not going into the MDI

I'm not even trying for server records

[knotty ermine]

Not just that though, they also are far less gear dependent atm, which is allowing to push into things that they undergear, especially early expansion. DKs actually have a pretty perfect situation right now for being kings of m+

Would be interested to see the average ilevel numbers along with the tank distribution numbers

[uneven mason]

I enjoy how warriors play, and its a unique challenge to overcome obsticles like, having an indestructable wooden sword and going after the ender dragon

[junior igloo]

"Pushing m+" and doing m+ is the same thing.
Obviously if you are doing content way below your skill and gear levels, it doesn't matter.

[uneven mason]

I Mean, the gap only becomes serious when you reach the point where mitigation no longer matters

[alpine pewter]

I don't get why people constantly use the argument "if you don't do high m+ (+15) there is no problem with war prot". That is partially untrue, because an average player will have a harder time completing a weekly +10 with a prot warrior rather than with a blood DK simply because it is harder to play and less efficient... The effectiveness of the class have also an impact on the time you have to put in to play it at a decent level...

[uneven mason]

where each trash pack is an instant death, our instant death is 40% less instant, but its still instant

[zealous ore]

Sure, but the difficulty of doing a +10 if you are adequately geared is trivial

[ember arrow]

@alpine pewter correct, it has an even BIGGER impact on bad players

[knotty ermine]

This may come as a surprise, but 10s were actually high keys, even a matter of days ago.

[uneven mason]

@alpine pewter Even doin 15sw there is no problem with prot

[ember arrow]

since bdk can cover mistakes for isntance

that prot warr cant

[uneven mason]

but it relies on perfect play

and it relies on a different comp

you have to build a group around the concept that you don't have the tools of the other tanks

[zealous ore]

We did our first +10 with a prot warrior on the thursday of M+ launch week

And it was fine

[alpine pewter]

I don't think it's fair to compare war prot and blood DK if you expect war prot to be played perfectly and not the same for blood DK

[uneven mason]

basically think of pushing higher keys in the mentality that each affix + dungeon comes out ot a mathmatical equalsion Solve for X Y Z and B, if the BDK can bring by himself X Y and B, and the warrior only brings B

[final mist]

DK doesn't have to play perfectly because that's the nature of the class.

[ember arrow]

you compare players at same skill level

[uneven mason]

The BDK is far "better" for that task

[ember arrow]

you cant say "a perfect warr is same as good dk" or whatever

[valid gorge]

"I did a m+10" is not a good argument for making the case that prot is completely fine in all this

[final mist]

If you fuck up on a DK, you can recover. You can't really do so as a Warrior.

[zealous ore]

I didn't say that

[ember arrow]

^

[zealous ore]

I said for your weekly +10

[uneven mason]

If you fuck up on a BDK you have the Ret paladin LOH you to remove purgatory

[zealous ore]

The class choice is almost irrelevant

[ember arrow]

you odnt talent purgatory though

xd

[uneven mason]

😛

[valid gorge]

that depends on what kind of player you are and how much you play the game

[uneven mason]

I havn't touched my BDK yet this XPac in M+

loving the warrior toomuch

[final mist]

In the same way the tanks aren't comparable with toolkits, you have to be better, on average, to succeed with a Warrior than you do as a DK.

[zealous ore]

Sure, assuming you're a mythic raider

[valid gorge]

if you only play 4 hours a week and you still want to clear your +10, would you play a prot warrior?

[zealous ore]

:)))))))

[valid gorge]

ofcourse not

[zealous ore]

Then why care?

[valid gorge]

if you play DK, you will have no issue though

[uneven mason]

What sal said + Your healer has to be better

[sharp lotus]

whos the hardest tanks

[uneven mason]

Like, its literally that Warriors are less forgiving

[zealous ore]

Sure

[uneven mason]

Warriors are the hardest to play properly

[zealous ore]

Because they're worse

[sharp lotus]

not pals?

[earnest zinc]

What is the best way to rotate CDs on Fetid heroic?

[uneven mason]

we get punished for mistakes

[zealous ore]

Paladin is pretty braindead

[earnest zinc]

I'm the thrash tank

[valid gorge]

if players who only played 4 hours a week didn't care, why would they play at all?

[mellow bridge]

Pal is really simple

[pallid knot]

trash tank 😄

[valid gorge]

try to put yourself into a players shoes that isn't a nolife neet

[final mist]

Every tank gets punished for mistakes, it's just that warrior gets punished harder.

[zealous ore]

@valid gorge I don't know, to pay for the development fees of the content I do

[valid gorge]

D:

[sharp lotus]

never played them

[uneven mason]

@earnest zinc learn his rotation

Know when to use your block/last stand etc

there are waves after he consumes he'll be far enoug haway that he won't melee you for a solid 10 + seconds

[zealous ore]

@final mist What do you play?

[uneven mason]

you'll never have gaps in your block uptime

Sal is paladin!

[sharp lotus]

lol

[final mist]

Warrior, Paladin, BRM, and DK.

[uneven mason]

But Sal knows his shit

🐻

[final mist]

Mainly Paladin since I can't stand Warrior atm.

[uneven mason]

he won't bear

[zealous ore]

Understandable

Yeah I know he plays tank

[uneven mason]

because it would be fulfilling the prophecy

that he becomes king of the 🐻 memes

[final mist]

Is this GoT?

[zealous ore]

Yes

[tight tree]

@earnest zinc shield block before every thrash

[final mist]

Am I the Prince Tank That Was Promised or some shit?

[sharp lotus]

yes

[knotty ermine]

TL:DR is that all other tanks require far less skill to have a similar efficacy. The floor is also far higher for ProtW, which means that mistakes made by prot warriors can result in being absolutely shat upon, and other tanks have built in forgiveness to their spec that makes up for either poor play or shortcomings. All that being said, if played at a similar high-level, the difference in tanks is actually not bad. DKs are, at the moment, a major outlier in this, due to their incredibly high forgiveness, extreme lack of gear dependence, and all the things in their toolkit which make them a perfect counter to many of the most difficult aspects of pushing m+ keys.

[uneven mason]

You're the 🐻 tank that was promised

[sharp lotus]

no

[knotty ermine]

Whew, we're getting efficient with this discussion now bois

[uneven mason]

put that in notepad

[ember arrow]

dk are gear dependant

[zealous ore]

Isn't DH pretty bad in mitigation aswell?

[ember arrow]

waht ya on about my dude

[knotty ermine]

Spoiler alert

[uneven mason]

just save yourself the effort, ctrlvctrlc

[knotty ermine]

I actually copy/pasted that

[ember arrow]

undergeared dk is not a fun experience

[zealous ore]

Like they get a lot of utility but their actual mitigation seems on par

[final mist]

DH mitigation is like DK's

[zealous ore]

DH, that is

[uneven mason]

All tanks are gear dependent

[final mist]

Works pretty much the same way

[zealous ore]

Except the self heal is a lot worse

[uneven mason]

VDH eat 80% Of their health and heal 40% back

[earnest zinc]

I got a lot of shit for being prot in a fucking normal Uldir pug

[uneven mason]

its more or less not worse tho

[final mist]

Their CC utility is arguably better in some situations

[knotty ermine]

Sorry, need to go and update the copypasta. DKs gear dependence is lower than that of other tanks right now. Sound better?

[zealous ore]

DH have way less HPS though

[ember arrow]

@zealous ore dh heals more than a dk on aoe

[zealous ore]

Doesn't that indicate its worse?

Oh yeah

cuz leech

for sure

[ember arrow]

no

spirit bomb

[zealous ore]

yrh

[final mist]

HPS doesn't necessarily mean anything

[zealous ore]

It gives you leech

[valid gorge]

Bonestorm lel

[ember arrow]

hps without context is meaningless

[valid gorge]

D:

[earnest zinc]

I then hearthed out when the other tank had the boss

[zealous ore]

Suuuure, but I'd assume there's always something to heal yourself from in M+ no?

[final mist]

It's an indication but nothing more than a small part of the bigger picture

[zealous ore]

I suppose

[earnest zinc]

Those guys were cucks, but I feel prot has a bad rep

[final mist]

DHs are DKs are arguably / relatively equal, if you ask M+ tanking players

Like high level ones

[zealous ore]

Oh yeah for sure, I meant in terms of pure survivability

[final mist]

Most of them will probably tell you DH is better because if it's utility

[earnest zinc]

I don't know if I can get into another guild if mine falls apart

[zealous ore]

Right

[uneven mason]

DH AE ranged silence +++

[final mist]

Pure survival doesn't mean shit in M+ though

[earnest zinc]

So many people think "lul prot"

[final mist]

Utility is a major, major part of M+

[uneven mason]

So prove them wrong 😉

[sharp lotus]

i think the only reasonable solution is to give prot warriors inspiring pressence, and let it stack again. That way we can have full prot warrior raids, isolated from the rest of wow. Like a concentration camp

[valid gorge]

like 80% people that play this game are pretty bad, so ofcourse a class that can only be viable when played perfectly is going to have a perception problem for pugging

they should fix that

[final mist]

I'm sure it's being worked on

[zealous ore]

But like

Why would you even play prot warrior

Not like spamming devastate all day is fun

[valid gorge]

there is literally no reason to, other than 'because i like the playstyle'

[earnest zinc]

It's still more fun than a bear

[final mist]

Some people like it

[hearty portal]

@valid gorge even when the class is played perfectly it still falls behind by a crazy margain

[final mist]

Some people don't want to main swap

[mellow bridge]

for the big dick dmg in m+ 👏

but ye asimply because I like it

[final mist]

My warrior has been my main since Vanilla and I didn't want to

[valid gorge]

I agree BigDaddy but not everyone here does

[zealous ore]

What do you like about it?

[mellow bridge]

DK is too boring, DH was cool last xpac but they made it feel a lot worse

[final mist]

But I did because I didn't enjoy the class anymore

[mellow bridge]

Monk seems uninteresting and Paladin is boring as well

[uneven mason]

Its personal preference on how a class feels

[zealous ore]

Yes, so I'm asking you to put that preference into words

[sharp lotus]

im hoping things improve, ive played since vanilla, i play other classes too

[earnest zinc]

Prot is not behind by a large margin when played at the top level

[sharp lotus]

so for now i just play my rogue and do minimum on my prot

[valid gorge]

but behind by an enormous chasm when played a mid/low level

and that is the main issue

:p

[zealous ore]

I don't see how anyone can enjoy prot warrior gameplay, it feels horrible to me.

[knotty ermine]

Protip: If you're here looking for someone to convince you to play prot, you should go ahead and switch to whatever anyway.

[final mist]

Different people enjoy different things

[zealous ore]

Ofcourse

So explain to me

[alpine pewter]

Nothing is announced for prot warrior, compared to Feral and Shaman in pre-patch, so I think it's optimistic to expect a fix on the class in the near future. I suggest we should voice ourselves on the US forum (once again) to push for a fix

[vocal nimbus]

Start planning way ahead of time and you will enjoy prot warrior

[uneven mason]

Except we're not really broken

[zealous ore]

@vocal nimbus 👋

[earnest zinc]

We just aren't OP like Brew and BDK

[mellow bridge]

time for a prot warrior dot shock

:^)

[valid gorge]

I mean the hyperbolic reddit thread must have been noticed

[vocal nimbus]

Like, 4-5 globals ahead

[dusk locust]

i enjoy it because it's kind of awkward. it's like a puzzle, and i have to plan for damage in advance

[valid gorge]

I doubt they can ignore that 6k upvote whinefest

[dusk locust]

and it feels good when you get it right

[uneven mason]

@vocal nimbus has it basically, we're 100% Proactive, if you plan your CDs ahead, rather than trying to react to something 3 seconds out, but know what you're going to do in 10 seconds (everything we do is predictable on timers) You'll have a much better time

[vocal nimbus]

People still havent digested that prot has changed from fast proc based playstyle to a planned, slow and steady play style

[earnest zinc]

Prot takes skill

[vocal nimbus]

Thats why most players think that prot sucks

[valid gorge]

problem with that is, in m+, you're dependant on your party to play perfectly as well, cuz if not, stuff will go wrong and you will have to react

[uncut fractal]

Mage in our m+ pug pulled additional mobs, timewarped and then dc'd on purpose. Is it bannable?

[valid gorge]

and boy do they not play perfectly in pugs

[earnest zinc]

You can't just go in only knowing where to position and when to taunt like you can a Brew or BDK

[dusk locust]

that is a good point though, if your group isn't any good and, say, body pulls something unexpected, it's really difficult to recover

[sharp lotus]

@uncut fractal you can report griefing

[junior igloo]

@uncut fractal
Indeed, you should ban him from your group

[amber siren]

@uncut fractal No, just put them on ignore, they won't show up for your groups anymore

[uneven mason]

Playing Protection is like Playing Trees & Parks, playing other tanks is like DDR

[alpine pewter]

@uneven mason I don't know why you keep saying everything is good with prot, either you're in complete denial or you try to prove to us that you're an exceptionnal player that can surpass his class weakness.. if so, good for you, but I don't think it's fair to have to play that good in m+ and raid to compete with "decent played" other class tank

[mellow bridge]

looking at bdk.. you must play a slowed down version of ddr

[earnest zinc]

Take big damage as BDK or Brew? No problem. Just Death Strike or use Purifying Brew right after.

[uneven mason]

So Trees and Parks you look at the whole picture and figure out where the placements are (its a puzzle, scored on attempts) DDR is just react to what shows on the screen

So thats why people don't like playing prot warrior its akin to a logic puzzle

FEELYCRAFT

[uncut fractal]

How do I update my raider.io score

[uneven mason]

it does it automatically

by reading the blizzard leadboards

[uncut fractal]

It still says 346 in-game and 420 on website

for 5 days now

[uneven mason]

oh

[sharp lotus]

@uncut fractal you can go to your profile on raider io and click to update, make sure to log out before

[uneven mason]

update your addon

[junior igloo]

Playing warrior really well allows you to be close in performance to other tanks, but still not quite at the same level.
Playing really well also likely means you are the kind of player that has multiple classes available and pushing challenging content, which gives you bigger incentive and better options to quickly reroll.
On the other hand, playing not very well means you will not perform even close as well as similarly skilled tanks on other classes.

[agile tiger]

What does a prot bring that other classes dont

[uncut fractal]

Oh ok

[earnest zinc]

No need to know the fights as a BDK or Brew as long as you get basic mechanics right

[uneven mason]

SO Fear - the reason why I sayd prot is fine, is because it is fine, Protection is capable of completing any content in the game at appropriate levels, the fact that they are less forgiving and require more focus to play optimally is a draw for some. This "Prot is bad" mentality stems from the fact that we don't have the utility, cheese or padding requried to push world first content, this doesn't equal BAD this equals "suboptimal" in that situation.

[knotty ermine]

There's nothing additional to explain though. It's been explained ad nauseum that the issues related to prot aren't remotely close to as the current falling sky would have you believe. Yes, prot is behind, but not by some massive chasm. However, if you don't enjoy the playstyle, or the fact that prot requires far better execution and planning from both you and your group than other tanks, then don't play it. If you want to be the very best like no one ever was and push the highest keys possible, DKs are there for you (but I would caution that the current data is looking like they may be more ripe for a nerf than prot is to receive any significant buff).

End of the day a question of personal preference is being asked, and that's not something anyone in this channel can answer for you.

[modern brook]

DDR Isnt reaction though 😢

[uneven mason]

your brain mus move faster than mine

cause I fucking hate that game

[valid gorge]

That's a very good description of the current problem @junior igloo

[junior igloo]

@agile tiger
Warriors bring a raid cooldown as well as single target cooldown (utilities only shared with paladin), AoE stun (only shared with monk), good mobility (unlike 3 of the other tanks) and a raid buff.

[valid gorge]

There is no reason for anyone at any level to play a prot warrior because of that

pretty much

[modern brook]

I mean like competitive ddr's practice that shit

they know the inputs

its not like its different every time

[uneven mason]

I mean, if it matters what you play, (IE you're hoping to snag a world top 100 for your faction) you're going to have every tank on deck more or less

Thus far, I've been tanking content fine

I don't die "first" in my raids

I don't require externals or extra attention any more than my co tanks

[modern brook]

I suck at prot warrior and i think its ok

[dusk locust]

we also require less external healing in raid far as i can tell

[modern brook]

I died last night during a +8 underrot and it litterally went "oh fuck i pressed revenge by accident im going to die"

[uneven mason]

right, but we're closere to death

[modern brook]

and then i died

aka punished for poor playing

[uneven mason]

yeah

[modern brook]

= playing a game

[sharp lotus]

im having really inconsistent results, i think i just keep falling back on legions rotation and fucking up

[modern brook]

I'm about that tbh

[uneven mason]

its mind boggleing dogc

[zealous ore]

Hi guys I'm a fire mage, how are you fellow dead spec players doing?

[uneven mason]

that if you play poorly you should have some sort of detriment

it just happens that on a warrior poor gameplay means our healers need to be professor zoom

[modern brook]

Honestly thats why the top 3 tanks are the top 3

[uneven mason]

or

[valid gorge]

I think you're actually very right about that @modern brook but you have to acknowledge the issue if prot warrior is the only tank that has this

[modern brook]

DK and monk essnetially have passive mitigation

[uneven mason]

we die

[modern brook]

and DH has the most brain dead AM of all tanks

[valid gorge]

if all the tanks had this issue, there would be no imbalance

[uneven mason]

VDH BDK and Monk make a mistake and the healers are the ones punished (extra mana to keep them up)

[valid gorge]

right now

[uneven mason]

right

[modern brook]

No ones talking about balance though

[agile tiger]

I did Find out they do a shit ton of dmg for sure

[uneven mason]

the imbalance is mostly because of perception though?

I mean

[modern brook]

the question is "is prot playable"

and yes it is

very much so

[valid gorge]

No, the imbalance is practicality

there is zero reason to play prot if you want to excel at a specific type of content

[modern brook]

What if i want to play prot

[valid gorge]

then you can

[grim prism]

@zealous ore we ded too

[valid gorge]

if you have guild groups, you will perform quite well

[alpine pewter]

@knotty ermine "then don't play it" I don't think this is a valid argument. It would be if it is as easy to reroll as switching character in a MOBA game, but it is not. There is a lot of grinding to do, even if the rep grind seems to be facilitated. You still have to level to 120, grind stuff and all... it's very time consuming for someone that plays "quite well" (mythic raiding) but with a very limited play time

[valid gorge]

if you have to pug, it will be a nightmare

[modern brook]

lol mobas

glad we're reaching the point where wow and league are comparable

[alpine pewter]

they are not

thats my point

read

[knotty ermine]

@alpine pewter I was replying to a specific question that was asking "why should I even play this" though

[uneven mason]

If you were on the level where you decided Mythic raiding was serious, you would have done research and planned ahead

like if you're pushing BE

not just CE

[junior igloo]

What's BE?

bleeding edge

[uneven mason]

Bleeding Edge

[grim prism]

B L E E D I N G

[uneven mason]

whats on top of the cutting edge

blood

[grim prism]

I really dont understand why we are having this conversation still

[junior igloo]

how good do you have to be to be BE? 😄

[kind urchin]

Method

[uneven mason]

I'd say with that advent of that top 100

[junior igloo]

slow day at work @grim prism

[uneven mason]

@grim prism its my favorite breakfast cereal MMMMM "CRUNCHY PLEBS"

[modern brook]

because new people have joined to tell us our class is bad @grim prism

[junior igloo]

Thinking about logging some old alts still left on Alliance and snatching top 100 Alliance as well when progress is over 😄

[knotty ermine]

Change of subject- Last night attempted UR 9, and the group was getting hammered by the dual matron/hunter/priest/spookyghost pack just before the first boss. Whats the strategy on that pull this week?

[digital arrow]

lmao @modern brook "o shit i pressed revenge im going to die"

[real thunder]

Question about Vectis, who grabs the add, the tank on boss or the off tank?

[grim prism]

We all know prot is undertuned and lagging behind other specs. We all know games are supposed to be fun, and you should play specs you enjoy. I'm going to get fucking shit on in my +9 underrot key because I enjoy the playstyle of prot and I want to try to make it work. I do not give a shit that the spec is undertuned because there are ALWAYS going to be specs that perform better and specs that perform worse, and the position we are in right now is NOT gamebreakingly undertuned as so many have implied. There are skilled prot players progging the same content as other tanks. They chose that path and continue to walk it because they enjoy playing prot, same as all the rest of us that continue to talk in this channel.

It's getting really fucking asinine in here guys.

[strong parcel]

hey guys im offspec prot and i dont have any tank trinket except blockade(355) and i guess fathoms(355). should i use my syringe(370) or my gore-crusted trinket (365) over the darkmoon trinekts?

[mellow bridge]

[grim prism]

It's a game. If you don't enjoy it then play something else.

Full stop

[sharp lotus]

not over blockade

[knotty ermine]

@grim prism save that for tomorrow, and the next day as well

[grim prism]

Just pasta it

[digital arrow]

should make balsaq's answer into a pinned faq lol

[grim prism]

I dont care

[digital arrow]

or include it up there

[frosty wedge]

@knotty ermine bring CC 😦

[grim prism]

Pin this: WoW is a game and you play it for fun

Ffs

[junior igloo]

@strong parcel
No, I'd keep the dual DMDs

[digital arrow]

YEAH

[valid gorge]

Tbh I geared up my prot because I figured it would be easier to pug as a tank than as Arms

boy was I wrong

:D

[grim prism]

Lol

[junior igloo]

People who play for fun don't do research on class discords, @grim prism

[agile tiger]

Is there like a Haste cap you need when prot is getting Some what smoother? I know they are not the same. But still

[grim prism]

I do @junior igloo

[valid gorge]

They don't?

I don't even raid and I'm in 4 class discords

:<

[junior igloo]

No, haste doesn't influence your play-style at all unless you exceed the GCD cap (> 100 %)

[agile tiger]

Why is it nr 1 stat then?

[grim prism]

Just because I like a little theorycrafting while I mongotank doesn't mean this game isn't (supposed to be) a fun hobby

[compact mirage]

Instance difficulty this week (no. of dungeons finished in time with this weeks affixes)

[grim prism]

@compact mirage what are those numbers?

[junior igloo]

Not sure it is #1 stat.
But the benefits of haste is more up-time on Shield Block and cooldowns (via Anger Management)

[mellow bridge]

Random numbers without explanation poggers

[compact mirage]

number of dungeons finished in time with current affixes

[sharp lotus]

if i was bill gates rich i would pay people to stop talking with twitch emotes

[mellow bridge]

Why'd you do that PepeHands

[sharp lotus]

lol stfu

[agile tiger]

Uhu but i felt ‘while leveling’ but still that when i used ma avatar i could crush alot cus ma gb was like ts Sl ts Sl ts sl...

[bright arrow]

Hi everyone ! I have a question : what is better between azerite traits for M+ : Brace for impacts or Iron fortress ?

[agile tiger]

Tc i mean

[grim prism]

@bright arrow BFI. Traits are in the pinned guide

[modern brook]

holy shit zoo

[sharp lotus]

brace for impact

[modern brook]

I thought i was having a stroke reading that

[sharp lotus]

IF aint even top 5 bruhv

[uneven mason]

wat

[sharp lotus]

wait

[wide juniper]

Yes it is

[sharp lotus]

i mixed it up

[grim prism]

Rekt

[sharp lotus]

ban inc

[grim prism]

Nah I'll meatshield the bans for you guys

Gotta be good for something

[sharp lotus]

youre a good man

[uneven mason]

Balsaq, quick 🐻 meme and draw attention away from the children

[bright arrow]

@grim prism Did you mean the Icy Veins guide for aerite traits ?

[odd ridge]

Your shieldblock is badly timed, you die

[compact mirage]

Guildmate had the great idea to do KR yesterday. We had no idea. Like lambs to the slaughter.

[uneven mason]

@bright arrow yes

that guide

[bright arrow]

@uneven mason Yeah but it's all about raiding, not M+ :/

[grim prism]

@bright arrow yep thats the one

[uneven mason]

It holds true in all situations

[grim prism]

You DEFINITELY want BFI for M+

Like even moreso than raiding

[knotty ermine]

I mean, additional bv is pretty gdamn stellar in m+

[uneven mason]

DC is the #1, you need one of these ,even if it means eating a ton of ilvl (its worth more than 30 now iirc now that we have live data"

BFI beats IF Because it stacks

[mellow bridge]

what kinda data

[grim prism]

Probably 45+ even

[uneven mason]

live, like actual raid and m+ logs

doing napkin math is one thing

but actually being able to see how much the extended DS uptime impacts the damage we take (over armor)

is important

[junior igloo]

Where do you have the data for DC? 😃

[uneven mason]

we have a lot of DoT damage

[bright arrow]

@uneven mason So One BF, one IF and one BIF isn't better

[grim prism]

Doesnt take a rocket scientist to tell you 60-70% uptime on 25% damage reduction is going to outclass a bit more baseline DR

[junior igloo]

Oh right

[uneven mason]

one DC

[bright arrow]

Because IF gives more BV

[grim prism]

And FWIW when I said "probably 45+ ilvl" Marok said "definitely"

So thats good enough for me lol

[uneven mason]

BFI stacks (it cascades really)

so on avg it will give you more block value

and its exponential

so 1DC and 2 BFI is optimal for now

[grim prism]

Block ofc being ridiculously important in M+

[uneven mason]

^^

IF isn't bad tho

[bright arrow]

@uneven mason MB, though it stacks between pieces ;p

[uneven mason]

it does stack between peices, it also adds a stack each time you shield slam

and it lasts 9 seconds

so you can have ~ 3 stacks if you've got exceptional SnB luck

[junior igloo]

I mean, DC is better than 30 item levels.
But that assumes that the higher item level has no trait at all (which might in theory be the case if your neck it so low level that you can't unlock it).
But in reality DC vs. 30 item levels + BfI for example, you'd go with the higher ilvl

[uneven mason]

which 3stacks x2 (from traits) is a MASSIVE boost to block

I'm not sure about that Meiffert, a lot of it has to do with the majority of the damage we're beginning to take is not blockable/mitigated by armor

[quiet plume]

Wait so Deafening Crash stacks yes?

[bright arrow]

Nope

[uneven mason]

not the DS extention

[grim prism]

@quiet plume only the damage

[uneven mason]

the damage yes

[quiet plume]

Ahh okay so it's not worth as much on the second piece?

[sharp lotus]

i still dont understand how callous is better than reinforced blocking. Is it because callous mitigates dmg universally?

[grim prism]

A second piece is worth literally nothing defensively

[uneven mason]

Because thus far the ONLY thing that has threatened me in Uldir is Bleed/DoT damage heh

[grim prism]

Just a little more DPS

[quiet plume]

Ah yeah yeah I get it. Cool.

[kind urchin]

At 3 stacks 4.5% dr vs all damage.

[uneven mason]

and Block does next to nothing vs that, since we're at the critical block cap already

[junior igloo]

Reinforced blocking is unreliable.
If you were guaranteed to block every X seconds to keep it at max stacks, it would be quite good

[uneven mason]

yeah

[knotty ermine]

Not sure that's true for M+ @junior igloo. Having no DC at all versus that one higher piece, I don't see how that higher piece would outweigh for having DS up almost 100% of the time in every pull.

[uneven mason]

yeah its situational

[sharp lotus]

ok thank you

[uneven mason]

like vs Fetid

I'd say BFI + 30 is better

vs Zul/Vect

I'm going to say DC is worth enough to wear a 340 vs a 385

since that extra block will not mitigate what is going to kill you there.

[knotty ermine]

Right. And in m+, I honestly can't think of a situation that I would ever want to not have the trait present on my gear.

[uneven mason]

Well

for damage purposes no

for mitigation

you will find a point where the extra armor/str/stam and BFI/IF block will put you above the additional avg mitigation provided by DS

but its a pretty big jump in ilvl to reach that.

but again - its not melee that is gutting us in M+ either

[knotty ermine]

Even though those things do basically*nothing for you (outside of stam) when the damage isn't blockable?

Exactly.

[uneven mason]

and I think thats what makes DC so strong

and what Blizzard didn't consider when thye made that trait and made us the "Block tank"

is its a required trait to push our only reliable mitigation vs non blockable damage

to sustainable levels

[junior igloo]

What Blizzard didn't consider is Anger Management + BV

And UF

[uneven mason]

They did

intentionally

I don't htink they considered how far reaching the effect DC would have combined with the talents they put into place

since our talents were more or less, a bandaid

just to get us functioning in time for release.

[junior igloo]

DC is balanced just fine, assuming you use Demo Shout every 45 seconds and get 2 Thunderclaps in the duration.

[uneven mason]

right

[grim prism]

What Blizzard didnt consider is that making one trait way the fuck more powerful than every other trait is basically turning azerite into the worst part of legendaries all over again

[uneven mason]

but without DC - warriors are not blanaced hehe

[grim prism]

And its not just a prot problem

Its systemic

[uneven mason]

all in all most specs have a single trait that is stupidly strong

but no one else really has a "without you I am nothing"

[knotty ermine]

Just hope that trait isn't stupidly strong in pvp and you're golden bb

[grim prism]

I have a 370 shoulder I had to use for DPS offspec because I cant afford to dump DC and quadrupled (quintupled?) demo uptime

And I dread getting an "upgrade"

[uneven mason]

FEELYCRAFTING tells me not using DC (I tried it for a fight cause I got a helm offa mother) makes warriors feel as bad as people say we are

[grim prism]

Reee etc

[uneven mason]

its REALLY noticeable

[grim prism]

Its practically mandatory

[uneven mason]

wont say required

[modern brook]

Demo shout is definitely active mitigation with current talent set up

Not a cooldown

[uneven mason]

40seconds of DS uptime feels good

8seconds feels poop

[junior igloo]

DC is ~ 6 % DR

Which is obviously huge for a single trait

[trail dagger]

Yeah, i have two 340 items i rotate around my 370s to keep DC. It feels bad, I cannot replace it with Uldir gear at all..

[grim prism]

The only good uldir piece we have that doesn't have a farmable alternative is the mother helm

If it werent for the limit on M+ ilvls there would be no reason for us to raid lol

[modern brook]

I got mom hat on Tuesday :D

[grim prism]

Mom hat lol

I like that

[trail dagger]

Lol

[knotty ermine]

Casting something else instead of TC when you were supposed to during an avatar window feels about like when you accidentally step on your dog

"Wow I'm the worst warrior to ever play, guess I'll go kms now"

jk the mob I was tanking did that for me

[grim prism]

The suspense is killing me @junior igloo

[junior igloo]

How are you, @grim prism?

[grim prism]

Like personally? I'm all right. Might be ragequitting my job to go on a road trip next week so that's cool

At the game I'm pretty shit but that's okay

[modern brook]

❤

[grim prism]

Just wanting to read this dissertation you're typing lol

[modern brook]

My guild is slowly dying and IDK what im going to do as a prot warrior main who gets declined from +2s

[grim prism]

Abandon ship? 😬

[modern brook]

YEah but then what

[ember arrow]

play other tank, dont limit yourself

if yo udotn care, then it doesnt matter

[static pilot]

Here's a thought... What if Bolster guaranteed SB while DS was up instead of LS?

[grim prism]

Then we would have 100% block uptime with DC

And we would get nerfed

Or instagibbed by unblockable mechanics :kek:

[abstract pebble]

I really don't feel that prot is all that bad, maybe take the GCD back off of ignore pain

[grim prism]

Its gonna stay on-global all expac unfortunately

[junior igloo]

DC trait is worth a little over 6 % DR.

Going from 970 helm to 985 helm is 52 armor, 82 strength, and 167 stamina, which is roughly 0.26 + 0.45 + 1.64 = ~ 2.35 DR/EHP.
It's gonna be less for lower item level pieces and for shoulders. So a rough estimate would be 15 ilvl = 2 % DR/EHP

Brace for Impact 370 ilvl with 2 stacks is 580 block, which is ~2.8 % DR

[abstract pebble]

I feel like a lot of the prot hate is fotm syndrome

[grim prism]

We have several off-GCD defensives aside from IP

And rest assured we all agree with that last statement

[fresh dragon]

good job blizzard. removed on ZEK'VOZ mythic coz DK has mass grip 😐 gg

[grim prism]

What kind of demo uptime do you use to figure 6%

[modern brook]

why is it blizzards fault that you didnt roll a dk for mythic progression?

[junior igloo]

Going from 30 % to 60 %

[final cedar]

Is critical block chance a percentage of regular block chance?

[uneven mason]

@junior igloo does that take the overall average or consider it versus actual tanking uptime (on fights with swaps) or situations where armor/block is not subtantial in our mitigation (vect/zul)

[abstract pebble]

Now 2 world firsts used 2 BRMs for Ghuun and everyone is crying that BRM is too strong, and looking right past DKs and DHs

[junior igloo]

@uneven mason
It assumes 100 % up-time, 85 % damage blockable

[uneven mason]

k

[fresh dragon]

@modern brook oh ye... u are right.. my fault chosing to play war prot

im guilty

[uneven mason]

So would you agree that in situations where block/armor (thus ilvl and BFI ) is not substantial, that DC surpasses the 30ilvl~ (2 tiers) mitigatin gains?

[grim prism]

How are you hitting 30% uptime without DC?

I thought it was 8 sec on a 45 CD

Am I missing something here

[junior igloo]

Item level is in large part stamina and some of strength's value is in IP as well, so item level keeps a lot of value against magic/bleed.

You can try some numbers yourself if you create a copy so you can edit:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1smbwHlquHKQpl-rJ1i3xvArHcgW681bppCZCF5zB6MI/edit?usp=sharing

[old zephyr]

Anger management and booming voice

[grim prism]

Derp

Forgot AM

Thanks

[uneven mason]

I don't like yo uanymore

[grim prism]

Prot no think only smash

[abstract pebble]

Should I be using Booming Voice on CD with Anger Managment? I still have been holding it for rough pulls in M+

[sharp lotus]

you dont want to cap your rage

[uneven mason]

Are you kidding me Balsaq the main reason why we have shields is to do Napkin math on the back of them while tanking

[grim prism]

@abstract pebble more or less yeah, but you definitely want to be holding it for the next pull if youre wrapping up the pull you're on

[steel mauve]

I doodle funny pictures of bosses like a kindergartner on the back of my shield...

I have a personal preference to crayola crayons

When im not eating them of course

[grim prism]

Like dont pop a demo if you have three mobs at 10% health, if youre about to need it again in 10 seconds for a fresh pull

[analog halo]

any1 got MDT maps ?

[grim prism]

Negative

[static pilot]

Calculating the fifth hc Argus scythe mid-swing to see if I needed to start using cds or if my IP pool was big enough was always fun :)

[abstract pebble]

I have a bad habit of holding CDs until when I really need them, been trying to get out of it, and casting anything that is 45secs or lower on CD (for the most part) on any class I play now

[final cedar]

Hi Skyhold, newish warrior here trying to figure out critical block. My character sheet says block chance is 26% and mastery says it increases my critical block chance by 25%. So does that mean I have ~50% chance on any hit to get some kind of block, or is critical block a percentage of regular block?

[junior igloo]

You have to block first.
When you block, there is 25 % chance it's a critical block (blocking twice the amount)

[steel mauve]

Crit block is blocking double the normal block not a block chance

[final cedar]

@junior igloo so my real crit block chance is 25% of 26%?

[steel mauve]

No

When you block THEN crit block chance gets rolled

[final mist]

Block Chance is separate from Critical Block Chance.

Whatever your Mastery is is your Crit Block Chance.

[final cedar]

yeah, that's what i said

[junior igloo]

You always block when you have Shield Block or Bolster active. If you don't, you can still get lucky and block (26 % in your case).

Then, if you blocked, 25 % of those blocks will be stronger

[steel mauve]

You block first then of the blocked hits you have a 25% chance to crit that block

[final mist]

As an example, when you have SB active, you have 100% Block Chance. Each of those blocks has a 25% chance to be a Critical Block.

[steel mauve]

Its not a 8% chance since thats close to 25% of 26%

[grim prism]

@abstract pebble yeah, prot war is really not designed to hold cooldowns anymore. Even SW (the only thing we have resembling an "oh shit button") is going to get popped as a filler from time to time

[knotty ermine]

@junior igloo idk if the numbers match up with your assertion that STR/STA still hold a "lot" of value with unblockable incoming damage. In the situation where dmg is unblockable (aka the situations that typically gib prot in m+), the marginal increase in HP and IP wouldn't be better than the loss of DC, which you would certainly make sure you had available for that same damage.

[grim prism]

LS is purely rotational to fill block downtimes

[final cedar]

yeah, so what that really means is on any given attaick, I have 19.5% chance to regular block, and 6.5% chance to crit block. Is that right?

[grim prism]

Demo is basically an uptime buff

Etc

[final mist]

No, Daigurren.

They're two separate rolls - they're not linked in any way other than the Critical Block Chance check happens when you block.

[junior igloo]

@knotty ermine
Sure, alternatively, you can still save cooldowns (such as Demo Shout) for the dangerous part even if not using DC

[grim prism]

If you baseline block 25% of attacks, and 25% of those are crit blocks, you have a 25% chance of blocking at all and a ~6% chance of crit blocking.

Not additive

[junior igloo]

If there is fight that's mostly bleeds/magical from start to finish, you should put the Magic damage to 100 % in the spreadsheet and it will recommend keeping DC trait and going for stamina/versa.

But I don't really agree that we should focus on that too much for general gearing.
Even if it seems like it's the bleed/magic that kills you, most of your damage taken is still physical hits on the majority of fights

I'm not really sure how readable the spreadsheet is btw.
1 % DR/EHP/selfheal should be roughly 10 points in the total column fwiw

[grim prism]

@final cedar make sense?

To put it in your words, crit block is a % of regular block. At least I think thats what you meant

[knotty ermine]

Idk. I guess I'm just not sold on the idea that a somewhat insignificant reduction (when looked at as a %, not in total) in damage taken/EHP increase is worth the potential loss of having far greater uptime of DS when you actually need it (because there are oftentimes that the time you want/need it lasts longer than 8s). Looking at % of dmg taken overall is worthwhile, but looking at the things that regularly lead to dying, like idk... maybe 15-30 seconds before death, or even the the whole pull in which you died would significantly shift the value you described.

[final cedar]

Yeah, I think I understand it now. I'm just trying to fit the two rolls, 1 for block, 1 for crit block into 1 percentage

[echo vector]

is prot warrior even worth a try?

[sweet orchid]

It's fun

Avatar thunderclap farming is op

[final cedar]

So, while shield block (the spell) is up, I have a 75% chance to get a regular block, and 25% chance to get a crit block. When shield block is not up, I have a 19% chance to get a regular block, and a 6% chance to get a crit block

That is combining the 2 rolls into 1 percentage

[grim prism]

While SB is up you have a 100% chance to block

And crit block is purely a function of mastery

[junior igloo]

@final cedar
Yes, those numbers are (roughly) correct

[grim prism]

So yes, overall you would have a baseline 6% crit block chance

Wait what

Is SB not 100%?

OHHHH

I'm an idiot

Youre right

Yes

Lol

[uncut fractal]

I'm so done with this crap. People won't invite prot warrs to high m+ so I thought I could make my own groups. 3 consecutive groups 1 guy feels superior and has to leave the group when we had 5 total deaths clearing trash

I'm so tilted

[junior ivy]

all that wait for war fronts and.. theyre kinda boring?

[grim prism]

Welcome to pugging M+... toxic bads gon toxic bad. You gotta btag the ones who you do well with because there are a lot of people not willing to spend time wiping on someone else's key

Some people play the game like it only serves them and then wonder why the community is so shit lately lol

@junior ivy yeah :<

[junior ivy]

if its my own key, i only take guild/friends. i dont mind pugging other peoples keys

but im not risking my own

[uncut fractal]

We had an arms warrior that got aggro at trash because threat generation is low rn and he got killed 1st time in the dungeon

[grim prism]

Yeah I never pug my own key... i unfortunately expect groupfinder randies to be toxic

[uncut fractal]

and he left the gropu

i'm so done

[knotty ermine]

@uncut fractal You can also try the m+ discord. Had pretty solid success through there. Actually haven't had one fall apart from that yet.

[grim prism]

Oh wow, inv link pls

[uncut fractal]

yeah same

i want that

[junior ivy]

i do most of my keys with an arms warrior but he understands he will pull aggro soemtimes

[modern brook]

If you die as an arms warrior on the pull you're retarded

for the record

[knotty ermine]

Mileage varies pretty significantly in LFG, moreso when there is an affix like quaking that can lead to many DPS deaths

[grim prism]

@modern brook +1

[modern brook]

You're supposed to die by the sword, not die because of the sword

[grim prism]

Die by di scord

[digital arrow]

Lmao

[modern brook]

👏

good one

[final cedar]

Is there anything that increases base block chance?

[modern brook]

....maaastery? I 💪 ?

[digital arrow]

🤔

[knotty ermine]

Let a pug group "carry" an AD key of mine last night, because I was bored and wanted to mindlessly DPS. Checked IO on the group, and 3 of the 4 were over 1k with 10's complete for every dungeon. Feelsbad when your key gets popped by a group of idiots who, you honestly cannot figure out how they actually cleaered all 10s in time prior to this

...it was a 7 key btw.

also, am I allowed to post another discord channel's link here? can't be asked to read the rules 😛

[junior ivy]

im done doing any keys (+10 and above) with pugs too unless they use discord

nothin annoys me more than pugs acting like theyre too good to use discord

"this is easy we dont need discord" then wipes on first trsh

trash*

[knotty ermine]

What's worse

"We don't need discord for this"

orrrrr

[grim prism]

@final cedar mastery

[junior ivy]

"its only a +11 we dont needd discord" you look at their .io and theyve done like ONE other +11 ever

[knotty ermine]

"one sec before we start, gonna go take a dab" from the healer

[modern brook]

Nothing beats the true combo carnivale:

DPS fucks up mechanics -> thats what we get for taking a prot

[junior ivy]

yep

[digital arrow]

I liked warfronts because I'm able to shockwave groups of like 30 regularly and feels good

Also the music

[knotty ermine]

for the record, idc about recreational drug use, but there is definitely a correlation between the people that advert that to the group, and their propensity for nuking your keys

[final cedar]

I'm 360 equipped and my base block is 26%. Anybody got some stellar ilvl can tell me their base block chance?

[grim prism]

@junior ivy if you join a +10 and they say it's easy, you should just leave

@knotty ermine DM it pls

And I'm high as balls most of the M+ I run so I don't flame others for it

Weed isnt a real drug though

[junior ivy]

im often high in m+ too but dont advertise it lol

[grim prism]

If my healer is like popping benzos I'm outir

Been there done that

Waste of time

[knotty ermine]

Sent

@junior ivy exactly Lol

[modern brook]

can i also get that link?

[digital arrow]

It's probably just me but I lose focus when high and feel like my mind isn't as sharp

[junior ivy]

what link is this i want it too lol

[grim prism]

readycheck goes out
"Hang on I'm buffing up" [mutes mic for bong noises]

[digital arrow]

Can I get link too pls lol

[knotty ermine]

https://discord.gg/yh5ERq Thats the horde m+ server. If you're Alliance scum, in the welcome page for that channel there is a link to the alliance channel
also Lok'Tar and GFY

[junior ivy]

oh.. horder

horde*

😦

i think im alreadyt in the alliance one

lol

[grim prism]

Ty <3

[knotty ermine]

@junior ivy the only tolerable alliance scum

[junior ivy]

i have a bunch of friends bugging me every day to go horde

i have 2 IRL friends and some wow friends on area 52 horde

[knotty ermine]

Do it

[junior ivy]

but im stubborn

[knotty ermine]

Should delete your druid and just make a horde warr

[junior ivy]

i have a 110 horde warrior actually

i just gotta levle it to 120

[knotty ermine]

Even better

[junior ivy]

i boosted it

with my free bfa boost

[chilly brook]

@knotty ermine well this should be a nice server to be a part of

[knotty ermine]

Takes longer to get a group together for m+ but I have yet to fail a run that I've been in from that server, so there is that.

[junior ivy]

theyre likely to wanna use discord too which i like ^

[weak zephyr]

Better dead than red.

[knotty ermine]

Your king, as well as your faction, only survive due to plot armor. And you know, honor and stuff, or something.

😉

[modern brook]

Alliance is a faction of mary sues

[digital arrow]

i've heard horde playerbase average age is way higher than alliance? is this true

tired of puggin with kids

[knotty ermine]

Idk if the kids thing is true, but can 100% confirm that all alliance players are D W E E B S

[chilly brook]

Better red than having your home burned down 😂

[tight tree]

no, orcs just autistic and calm

all bout that work work

[chilly brook]

Being a horde panda is mint btw

[modern brook]

My rogue is a horde panda

because i wanted to make the worst decisions i could before i hit level 2

[junior ivy]

ok i have these pants and for the life of me i cant figure out if theyre an upgrade

nm its a chest not pants

but look

[chilly brook]

Being a panda is a great decision

[pure swift]

what is the addon that shows the azerite traits in the tooltip

[junior ivy]

its called azreite tooltips

i think

[modern brook]

are you asking for prot or fury?

[final mist]

It's Azerite Tooltips.

[junior ivy]

prot i guess

im iun fury spec right now

lemme go prot

[pure swift]

nice. because wow default method sucks

[modern brook]

IDT plating is worth 30 ilvls.

[knotty ermine]

I currently struggle with the fact that Horde's best-looking races for transmog, which is the real endgame anyway, also have sub-optimal racials for the content I run (m+). (writing off BE because, even though most armor looks sick on them, I already have like 3 other BEs and it's meh)

[junior ivy]

i know its about a 200 dps upgrade for fury

but if its an upgrade for prot id rather use for prot

since i main prot

[modern brook]

like plating is a better trait sure, but its not DC better

[chilly brook]

@knotty ermine orc?

[final mist]

I wouldn't upgrade that, Cat.

[modern brook]

Oh you changed shit on me

[junior ivy]

really sal

why

[modern brook]

😢

[final mist]

Unless you have another DC to put somewhere.

[astral crystal]

callous reprisal yech

[final mist]

DC is really good.

[chilly brook]

I mean soonish we’ll be all playing zandalari 😎

[junior ivy]

i have DC on my shoulders

i have 2 DC right now @final mist

[modern brook]

Zandalari still dont have shoes

horrible plate race still

[chilly brook]

Don’t need shoes

[final mist]

Oh, if you already have / can keep one, replace away.

[astral crystal]

YONO, you only need one, cat

[modern brook]

until u look at their heal toenail

[junior ivy]

what trait should i pick

[modern brook]

and ur like oh right gross

[final mist]

You only need one DC, the second is wasted.

[junior ivy]

on the hest

chest

[final mist]

Callous.

[junior ivy]

ty

[chilly brook]

I mean the zandalari heritage armor is dope

[final mist]

Archive isn't worth it for another few weeks, and that's only during raids anyways.

[junior ivy]

and the middle?

[final mist]

I can't wait to see the BE heritage gear tbh

[modern brook]

the zandalri heritage armor looks like questing greens to me :/

[junior ivy]

strength in numbers looks fun

do i take that

[floral rock]

I really hope BE armor is based on the cinematic. Always looked so nice

[chilly brook]

@final mist I’d assume it’d look something like the guards in silver moon

[junior ivy]

for middle do i take strength in numbers??\

[cyan belfry]

If given the option between prot as a tank offspec (to my arms mainspec), or making a monk alt just for tanking/healing shenanigans, which would yall recommend?

[modern brook]

@junior ivy sure why not

Also i think the guides have azerite traits ranked

[knotty ermine]

@chilly brook What does an orc bring to m+? My warrior has been an orc since Vanilla, finally changed in Legion to BE because I missed Arcane Torrent so much from when I was tanking on my pally

[junior ivy]

this ilvl will def get me into pugs 😄

[chilly brook]

Something like this

[modern brook]

I dont get how catfriend is simultaneously the best person and the worst person

[knotty ermine]

Honestly can't recall offhand. Its what... a minor dps cd and 15% stun duration?

[chilly brook]

@knotty ermine I was thinking more about your second best tmog race since blood elf was out the window for you

[knotty ermine]

Ahhh yeah yeah

[chilly brook]

Highmountain is probably the second best m+ race

[modern brook]

Orcs are baller

[final mist]

That's what I'm hoping Griff

[chilly brook]

You and me both

[knotty ermine]

That was one thing I liked about Wildstar (RIP), their racials were nonexistent.

[final mist]

I bet the shield from SWP is gonna look baller as fuck with it

[modern brook]

We have be mad as a racial

[final mist]

Just need a good weapon

[chilly brook]

TBH I kinda miss being a blood elf

[knotty ermine]

Ha, I have a HM warr as well, but tauren look wonky with like... 40% of transmog options

[final mist]

The new Teebu's might work, probably gonna end up using a mace though

I was going to go to Mag'har on my Warrior for their heritage gear

[tight tree]

orcs > all

[final mist]

Until they told us about the BE zone

[modern brook]

zugzug

[final mist]

And now my warrior is going back to BE

[junior ivy]

my horde warrior will always be blood elf cause im basic and i like races that look nice

[chilly brook]

Speaking of that shield

Here you go

For your pally

[final mist]

Gross

I like my LK gear atm

[digital arrow]

hell yeah another fellow gnome warrior high five

[modern brook]

Female blood elf idle pose makes me want to off myself

[tight tree]

that is for real revolting

[final mist]

I had a Spell-breaker set, but the shoulders I use for it have been broken since Legion

[knotty ermine]

Lol yuuuuuuuuuup. My incredibly inconsiderate groupmate that WAS a BE monk decided to go Mag'har, and now our group is missing out on some sweet dispel action

[modern brook]

theres no universe where that is a comfortable position

[digital arrow]

i'm switching to kul tiran human when it comes out though, guild says gnome tank is too small to click on or some shit

[knotty ermine]

Female BE armor scaling makes me rage. Why do they have dino feet and huge heads

[chilly brook]

What’s revolting?

[astral crystal]

dude it'd be so dumb if BEs got spellbreaker as heritage armor

[junior ivy]

oo im gonna do my dark iron dwarf scenario!

[astral crystal]

the class doesnt even exist

[knotty ermine]

its like someone plugged a gameshark into their PC and enabled DK mode and Bighead mode

[modern brook]

why are your healers clicking on models

I found out yesterday that my healer is a fucking clicker

[tight tree]

gnome warriors and that transmog

[junior ivy]

healers are allowed to be clickers

mouseover macros

with vuhdo and stuff

[modern brook]

he was streaming something and im watching this guy fucking click his bar then on my raid frame

[knotty ermine]

CLique helllo

[modern brook]

and the whole time i was like "i trust this man with my life"

[digital arrow]

lol

[chilly brook]

I might have to swap back to BE for that heritage armor

I mean I think it’s a pretty decent transmog set

[junior ivy]

i'm aclicker as tank 😭

[chilly brook]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

Definitely building it for my pally

[digital arrow]

damn how do u click as prot? ur eyes must be quick having to look all over the screen so much

[junior ivy]

i wanna stop clicking but its so hard

[digital arrow]

like "ah shit tank buster incoming, lemme look for my block button"

[junior ivy]

i manage pretty well as a clicker lol 😦

i got to 6./8 heroic last niught in uldir

we killed zul!

[digital arrow]

u do 10's so u must be doin fine lol

[chilly brook]

To be fair you could be so much better

[digital arrow]

way better than me at least

[junior ivy]

and +11s !

[knotty ermine]

My issue is that I suck with hotkey modifiers

[modern brook]

i played starcraft for like 3 years

yall are babies 😠

[junior ivy]

ew oh god why am i in black rock depths

i jhate this place

[knotty ermine]

Like if I wasn't using this naga hex and clique, I probably wouldn't function as a warr. I dont see how some people can play with alt key modifers on their abilities

[chilly brook]

Muscle memory

If you don’t build it you’ll never have it

[knotty ermine]

maybe thats part of it, I can't break my own mm

[hushed cobalt]

I have alot of similar spells on the same keys + alt keys

[grim prism]

Same

[chilly brook]

Sure you can

[knotty ermine]

moving my thumb to naturally be over an alt key is ridiculously awkward feeling

[chilly brook]

Just have to fight through it

[grim prism]

Mod macros are some godtier shit

[knotty ermine]

Oh no doubt @grim prism

[chilly brook]

Put something important that you need to hit on it and you’ll start hitting it 🙃

[digital arrow]

lmao starcraft mouse clicking builds CHARACTER

[hushed cobalt]

I only use alt (easier cause uae to play league)

[knotty ermine]

Lol maybe thats the problem. If its important I dont want it to be bound to a modifier

[digital arrow]

still laughin at the guy who uses a sewing machine pedal for pummel

so awesome

[grim prism]

Appparently this is weird af, but I have my arm at kinda 45° out from the keyboard, so my pinky is pretty much on tilde and my thumb is kinda at space on the edge of alt

Shield slam and shield block (prots two most important abilities?) are both on 3 and can easily be pressed with middle finger while strafing

[sick sentinel]

@digital arrow I seriously need that

Genius

[grim prism]

Its weird, but if it works it works

[knotty ermine]

You can't kick a$$ if you don't use your feet! - If they're good enough to drive a car, you know they can drive your game. - Fire weapons with your feet! - Zoom with your feet! - Cast spells with your feet! - Control movement with your feet! - Scroll with your feet!

[grim prism]

@digital arrow that was me lol

[knotty ermine]

Hello

[sick sentinel]

post link. My account balance will thank you later

[knotty ermine]

HELLO

[hushed cobalt]

I use a trackball logitech :(

[grim prism]

See i could never use something expensive for footpedals

[digital arrow]

balsaq you genius

[grim prism]

Holy christ I would crush those to dust within a week

[digital arrow]

"tfw ur kick is actually a kick" lmao

[knotty ermine]

I fidget entirely too much for that to work

"Guys my kick is on cd"

"why"

[soft bridge]

I have a couple friends who use those

[knotty ermine]

"don't worry bout it"

Brb wiring up my ddr pad to go under my desk