How many stacks are y'all taking on Heroic Zul?
#protection
frigid blaze
sharp raptor
our guild did 2?
steel mauve
uh wtf
sharp raptor
me as a monk took 3 one time cause zen med
steel mauve
why would you use dragon roar over unstoppable force
sharp raptor
long story
frigid blaze
kk so 2 is safe?
sharp raptor
in short he thinks it helps with threat outside of avatar window
2 is not safe
it still wrecks
do you have paladins in your party?
frigid blaze
One.
steel mauve
unstoppable force is literally what makes our best azerite trait and avatar so godly
frigid blaze
Prot war/Brm tanks.
sharp raptor
(he doesn't have the azerite trait)
steel mauve
it literally extends uptime of demo shout by like 5 times
carmine bison
you can have avatar up every other pull easily too
cloud bone
What's better Callous Reprisal or Archive of the Titans Ignoring Reorigination Array?
sharp raptor
that helps
frigid blaze
Yep yep
steel mauve
he needs to get his ass into dungeons and get it
frigid blaze
Is it possible to swap at 1?
sharp raptor
anyways regarding zul stacks, stay in for heals
run out when it's about to drop off
no
frigid blaze
Didn't think so
frigid blaze
Right on.
sharp raptor
so stay in the group for heals
crystal night
Im on heroic Mythrax main tanking, are these good stats for mitigated % of damage taken? https://gyazo.com/157cbdd42d96df76c2b0ae4d6c82b909
sharp raptor
run out at the very end
pop a CD to live
call for externals if you need to
I think when we did it I started (monk), took 3 and we used spirit link to help soak some of the damage
crystal night
60% mitigated any good?
vast void
i do have about the same amount of mitigated damage (was a 10%wipe tho) but the more the better
steel mauve
kraken shell pauldrons also have DC trait
raven kernel
Yes 60 is where u should be at
frigid blaze
We taunted at 2, but my stacks hadn't dropped before the other tank hit 2
night imp
anyone got any experience with tanking mythic fetid?
steel mauve
way*
steel mauve
theres 2 strats, taunt at 3 and let it drop the pools
taunt at 2 and keep switching until a tank dies or boss dies
steel mauve
chances are the first tank dies, and the boss can be killed with out the second tank dieing i think
with decent dps that is
raven kernel
Just watch your incoming heals and yell if it isn't enough
frigid blaze
Are you guys doing zerg strat, btw?
vast void
we swap at 3 , first time call for BOP to cleans the heavy dot damage and kill zul asap
frigid blaze
If so, another question: we have another crusher spawning before 40%, so we have a crusher up going into Phase 2. That okay?
sharp raptor
we had a crusher up going in p2
night imp
it's fine, hexers are the only thing you really wanna avoid tbh
sharp raptor
had raid swap to it
frigid blaze
kk
sharp raptor
burn it down real quick
frigid blaze
pulling again, will update :p
raven kernel
It's OK if u can't get a clean transition, as long as they aren't fresh spawns
vast void
as long as the crushed does not buff the boss, you can still do it
sharp raptor
make SURE when you run the crusher out you have a wall behind you
cause the boss knockback transition can knock you off
digital arrow
damn a couple of the packs in waycrest 6 hurt like hell
goddamn teeming
especially when they arent interrupted
sick sentinel
Finally started playing my prot war again. Just hit 111. Not looking forward to when my old legos stop working, because it's disgustingly strong right now XD
frigid blaze
will bop drop the blood on the ground for zul?
tiny sphinx
i'd take an IP nerf to get mannoroth's effect back, it's not like we get insane rage like we used to
steel mauve
yes, bop drops the aoe on the ground as well
frigid blaze
gotcha, thanks!
crystal night
@raven kernel ty man]
lucid kelp
hmm
onyx sun
Man... I can't push a +4. Dont know what im doing wrong.
cinder nova
hOLY ShiT
I cast SS and TC 3 times each
and my bear tank can't hoild aggro off me
ffs
lucid kelp
I think Mother Hates me...Im trying not to pull aggro on her so for the first room...I just sit around and do literally nothing because Im crossing over first
and I still have pulled aggro twice
steel mauve
well bears threat is garbage so its not only his fault, doesnt mean hes bad, and we are pretty much the highest threat tank
cinder nova
Died to lasers all night first week in mythic on taloc
Pretty sure it's operator error.
shadow sedge
waycrest +7 is aids
worthy idol
what type of uptime % should a prot have on shield block? trying to analyze our raid tank who is getting chunked on g'huun.
cinder nova
Uptime isn't critical. Using it when actively tanking or prepping for blockable mechanics is
worthy idol
well he took 2 melee hits without having it on
steel mauve
% mitigation is what you need to look at
final mist
He's not going to be able to block everything.
He wants to block as much as he can though.
native monolith
56 Crit or 11 Haste + 5 Versa?
native monolith
ty
worthy idol
so 46% total mitigation on our wipe for our prot.
keen spire
My friends - should I use the 370 Lions Strength with 271 strength and the crit on-use effect, or the 355 Galecaller's Beak at +236 Str, +69 Avoidance, and on-use 1030 haste for 15 secs (2min cd)
the strength gain is a .06% to armor
with the 370 trinket
well, I'm checkin the pins
seems the galecaller's beak is like every tank's top choice atm
elder steppe
Gratz?
sick sentinel
LMFAO
digital arrow
anyone havin issues on the start of siege +4-6? i tried it again and it seems like theres a long distance tether between two particular packs that they keep piling on us
and as far as i could tell, nobody was remotely in the vicinity of the pack by the far stairs
viral pollen
Mythic WAycrest this week is yikes
digital arrow
yeah dude i just barely survived a 5
but then it's my first time doing +anything waycrest
shadow sedge
I tanked a +5 and we 2chested but the +7 waycrest after was absolutely aids
just gotta make sure you los pull a bunch in there
and use demo shout often with DC
shadow sedge
big big yikers
digital arrow
yeah going down to the basement was brutal for me, adds kept piling up outta nowhere. i should have kited them out of the stairs
viral pollen
The courtyard was the worst for me
digital arrow
so much magic damage that as soon as my IP wore off i was fucked
digital arrow
what the hell lmao
shadow sedge
Yeah IP is aids as a "secondary mitigation" ability (since SBlock is primary mitigation)
they nerfed it a bit too much, it doesnt provide enough to cover the parts where you cant block the damage
digital arrow
lol as soon as spell shield is on cd i leap the fuck outta there and hide behind a corner
shadow sedge
Basically
digital arrow
everyone's gotta be on top of interrupting all the debuffs and dot spells in waycrest
lucid kelp
IP feels useless sometimes...I pop it. It's gone with 1 hit and then I dont have t he rage to pop it again
steel mauve
damage absorbed is still damage absorbed, only time ip is useless is when it runs out of duration before absorbing it all, or over writing the absorb and wasting rage on it
digital arrow
skillfully used ip
astral crystal
got sat for zekvoz because im not a dk or a brm whoo
prot warrior life, thanks dipshit developer who obviously mains DK and wants to shoehorn design around a single dumbass ability
unreal pewter
Hey prot got to be broken good during vanilla just remember the our day
amber siren
nomassgriplife
floral rock
salty boy
astral crystal
extremely
amber siren
was kinda hoping they would of learnt from aggramar that requiring grips for fights is super dumb bcs only 1 spec in the game can use an aoe version of it
but ๐คท
sick sentinel
only fight prot could be good on in this raid would be g'huun
astral crystal
that's a big haHAA
raven kernel
I went dps for zekvoz too
Cos we wanted grip
But I'm good dps so I don't bench
XD
gaunt coyote
static pilot
How bad is Temple with Teeming Quaking atm? Have a +9 in my bags, not super eager to try it tbh
tranquil lotus
agile ivy
hey guys wanted to try tanking on my warrior, what build would you use for mythics?
static pilot
raven kernel
1123211
agile ivy
i know people are trashing prot warirors atm but are they even that bad?
agile ivy
alright wicked, was maining rogue but wanna try arms/prot
much changed since legion
i havent even tanked on it since then
sweet orchid
Even if played well they suffer penalty much harder than other tanks due to shit rage gen. They do tank pretty well despite that.
static pilot
We're the unicycle of tanks. Compared to a bike (paladin) it takes a lot more effort to keep us upright and we don't really bring anything useful to the table. That said, you can make it work if you're willing to put in the time and ignore the ridicule
In this metaphor a DK is an electric scooter and a monk is a mountain bike with training wheels
raven kernel
Well
junior ivy
6/8 HEROIC !
lavish gale
DK most definately can
static pilot
Considering Waydoz is looking to put his toe into tanking I don't think he's going to tank mythic zek anytime soon
raven kernel
Not without externals throughout the whole fight
lavish gale
I did it last reset and used 1 external throughout the entire fight
junior ivy
btw i need zul help. i do fine tanking but when my debuff goes off on p2 it ALWAYS kills me
static pilot
Also grats Cat, that's great :)
lavish gale
you just play rune tap
junior ivy
even if i have lots of health
digital arrow
yay go cat!
static pilot
Heroic leap out, call for bop to clear dot?
raven kernel
I know @hot locust takes full combo easily with just his own cds
static pilot
Do you use externals?
junior ivy
no
vivid sage
I don't raid mythic but zekvoz combo barely tickles me just using block and SR on 3rd hit
static pilot
You have no rage gen when you're waiting for the stack to fall off so you're basically 100% reliant on the raid to keep you up
hot locust
Yeah, just LS and SR works for the most part if you have rage for IP's inbetween parts.
digital arrow
this is a noob question: what do u guys refer to when u say externals
vivid sage
@static pilot it's hard for other tanks too
static pilot
Defensive mitigation provided by other classes
hot locust
Things like Ironbark or Pain Suppression
vivid sage
I'd say it's worse for dk
raven kernel
Pain supp, sac, ironbark
static pilot
Barkskin, pain suppression etc
vivid sage
Who takes a ton of damage and cannot DS
static pilot
Note to self: Barkskin not in dictionary
static pilot
DK don't love it but they have higher baseline health and vamp blood massively boosts healing received
+blood drinker for a little bit of extra HPS
But sure, most tanks are gonna want externals for that
lavish gale
You can full soak a void lash as a dk and avoid the debuff if you play a bit defensively
vivid sage
Any raid delaing with that effectively is bopping you as soon as you jump out anyways
static pilot
๐
static pilot
Well, assuming a bop is available
lavish gale
Yeah and they you have rune tap for the next 2 of the combo
vivid sage
It is not uncommon to have to pallies
raven kernel
Warrior needs nothing when done right
vivid sage
3 stacks, bop, 3 stacks, bop
Save shield wall and pool rage jump out you have 2 IPs and 40% miti
Like that's a tank buster everyone is getting clocked by it
raven kernel
Talking diff boss here
tight rune
Is the g'huun trinket any good?
floral rock
no
raven kernel
Ah yeah that's a diff story
vivid sage
It's tuned to be a raid problem, not a tank problem
raven kernel
I was only talking about zekvoz
static pilot
More interesting than the DK/warrior dick measuring competition ^^
That's a good way to phrase it Leno, I like that
vivid sage
Every tank excels in different situations
raven kernel
Just pointing out that there are things warrior does better
vivid sage
But all of them can do all content
raven kernel
We are not just higher difficulty for same reward
static pilot
I guess I just wish we didn't have to look quite so hard to find the scenario warriors excel in
I'm sure I can come up with a fight, somewhere, that makes shadow priests look good
vivid sage
The only real legitimate gripe I feel people may have is that warrior definitely requires a higher knowledge of mechanics and bosses in order to compete with other classes
Yes but is there anything we can't do ?
static pilot
Self sustain through a world raid boss ^^
vivid sage
That's the hill you want to die on?
static pilot
That's nitpicking though, I get that self sustain isn't a warrior thing anymore
raven kernel
Zekvoz is something alot of mythic Raiders are on or have already downed
Not very hard to use it as an example
static pilot
I'm not planning on dying anywhere tonight
Overall, as you say, I think it's a shame that warriors are held to a considerably higher standard than other tanks in order to perform adequately
It's probably a big part of why a lot of people that used to like warriors have switched to other tanks
And that the community is less and less enthusiastic about bringing warrior tanks along
vivid sage
Idk I enjoy the playstyle
And I make mistakes but I like to push myself and I look over logs to perform at a certain level
And so I actually enjoy I can see a real advantage to improving my play
static pilot
That's great! I really don't though. Ideally there would be enough viable talents to support both the high risk high reward style of play for hotshot tanks, and a steadier safer spec for more average players
vivid sage
As opposed to maybe some other classes that would have some pretty serious diminishing returns on improved play
static pilot
Ie AM and HR builds
vivid sage
I don't think every class needs to be balanced like that imo
I think it's ok to have things that are harder to play
static pilot
Am is the current spec, HR has slightly less dps and cooldown usage but 100% SB uptime
Well, if it stays the way it is now warrior is only gonna get more frustrating to pug with
Community's already starting to turn on us
vivid sage
I don't pug much
static pilot
Me neither, but I'm talking about the health of the spec as a whole
Plenty of people don't have guildies that run m+ or raids and have to pug to get anywhere
And if 80% of the warrior tanks objectively perform worse than other specs its also gonna suck for the 20% that do well
As a pug leader, why take a gamble and invite a warrior when you know a monk or dk will on average do much, much better?
raven kernel
That's true
As a skill reliant spec
Most people won't gamble on a pug to have the required skill
The skill floor on warriors def needs to be raised
vivid sage
But what if you met this warrior on your +3 buttblast that did 10k overall dps and never really took crazy dmg
And you add him and now you have this dope tank on your list
raven kernel
At the same time the top end performance could also be buffed more to further reward the higher skill requirement
vivid sage
There's something savoury about changing people's expectations
static pilot
I've seen amazing shadow priests in m+, but if I'm casually pugging a dps for a guild group and I can choose between a SP and a frost mage that have the same ilevel I'll probably take the mage
raven kernel
Sure but that only happens to good tanks
vivid sage
Yeah but who's pugging relevant content?
static pilot
Plenty of people
raven kernel
Lower end of the population
static pilot
Check the group finder
solid mist
there are dozens of us!
static pilot
Tons of m+ going up to +9 or higher
raven kernel
Personally I do premades only so I'm not affected
But I do feel for the casual people
cinder nova
Mythic Zek hurts
static pilot
You're mistaken.
I've been reliably informed that mythic zek rolls over immediately when presented with a warrior ^^
cinder nova
Taking like 120K per void lash
under reflect, demo, and IP
Shatter either takes 100K outta me or nothing
Because lol crit block lottery
raven kernel
Yeah that's fine
Other tanks take way more
And need to be heal bombed between hits
vale basalt
^
junior ivy
who here is NA horde
raven kernel
If you use last stand for the combo you're super safe
hot locust
o/
cinder nova
I don't really think LSing the combo is useful tbh, I save it to just roll and help stabilize if the raid is getting oof'd
junior ivy
when horde had war fronts, how loing was it stuck at 99% before they opened?
cinder nova
You can prep the shatter with block midway through void
So I just IP after each swing
But it just feels like I'm getting blown apart
Whole expansion so far makes me feel like DPS Lite with Defensives
raven kernel
Trust me it feels worse on other tanks
cinder nova
I saw our bear dumping kit just to live most of the time
weak zephyr
We are dps lite with defensives, but it's really just how you end up using those defensives is what makes or breaks you as the tank.
lavish gale
last stand every combo and save shield wall for a oof moment instead
wispy pawn
Are there any stat weights for Pawn any where?
undone sun
No
frigid blaze
@steel mauve @sharp raptor @raven kernel @vast void we got that H Zul kill, by the way. Appreciate your input!
weak zephyr
Warfront is up oh boi
plain vapor
woo
mythic mother down
got the helm but i have no deafening crash piece to replace it lol
frigid blaze
Same situation I'm in, homie.
static pilot
Good luck with your 370s :)
raven kernel
Grats
plain vapor
should i use this 385 helm if i dont have a DC piece to replace it?
worthy idol
So what % mitigation is a good range to be for tanking as prot in general. Trying to figure out if our prot is playing wrong.
winter skiff
how the hell do u beat shadow of zul??
not even a boss but im whipign every time
cant eve get past him
weak zephyr
If that helm is like 15 ilvls above yeah
weak zephyr
Holy shit, then yeah do it. DC is important to us but that's a pretty big boost in stats.
raven kernel
45 ilvl is too big
Just replace it
Feelsbad tho
@worthy idol depends on encounter but 50 to 60 percent
worthy idol
Gโhuun
static pilot
I think it's worth up to 25 ilevels. Do you have any other pieces you could swap in for your other slots?
worthy idol
He was getting trucked and we wiped cause he died and logs said 46% @raven kernel
weak zephyr
Oof
static pilot
Can you link logs?
raven kernel
I had 50.77 in my ghuun heroic kill last week for what it's worth
static pilot
That could be because he's doing something wrong or he just has a bad shield
Hard to say without more detail
raven kernel
There are many other factors
raven kernel
Like swapping on time
Having shield block up doesn't help if ghuun is on really high stacks
plain vapor
nah no other pieces
might try and farm for the dread gladiator chest piece cus that has it on it
raven kernel
I'm on phone so just took a quick glance e
His first death in last wipe he had poor heals in the last 5 secs
cinder dirge
Are you guys getting destroyed in the 8-10 M+ area as well? Don't know why , but I just tanked a Waycrest Manor 9 yesterday and i have never died so many times on trash, never pulling more than 1 pack, always chaining defensives. I'm not a main tank but in legion i tanked my way easily in the 20-22 area.. but now ... holy fck.
proven tundra
We're at the start of an ex pack, current 8-10s are not that far from 20-22s with argus gear
winter skiff
ok kings rest is impossible
static pilot
Trash is notoriously and significantly more dangerous in BFA than it was in legion
static pilot
Combine Teeming and fortified on already scary trash and you're gonna have a sucky time
winter skiff
am i just a bad tank or is kings rest hard for us
static pilot
I wouldn't beat myself up about it. KR is not a fun place atm
limber tulip
@undone sun ๐
undone sun
๐
static pilot
Looking at the second death log he popped shield block at -9 seconds, didn't actually get attacked until -3 when SB fell off
raven kernel
Heals on your war are really weak
static pilot
So he had no SB charges left when the boss was truckin'
If he was already low from shaky heals a warrior with no SB and no other mitigation up can get chunked in a hurry
static pilot
As in most cases there are multiple factors in play
next goblet
can warfront drop a shield?
static pilot
Are the tanks communicating the taunt swaps well? It's strange that he popped SB and then didn't eat a single melee for 6 seconds
Yes it can Fuzzy
meager marlin
anyone have the pawn stat weights?
static pilot
There aren't any for Prot
meager marlin
rip
static pilot
Ilevel>haste>mastery=vers>crit
vivid sage
Hey my phone died earlier mid convo
Sorry
I wanted to put out that I don't believe pug groups under cutting edge need to have a heavy weight in balancing issues
Well wait lemme rephrase that
sullen tangle
any tips on doing the affixes this week as a prot warrior?
vivid sage
perceptions of classes of people who are pugging ~heroic raid level content don't need to carry great weight on balancing issues
To hammer it home, you don't need to make balancing changes in an effort to change people's opinions on certain classes, as long as they can perform adequately
static pilot
Ion talked about that during Legion with monks
vivid sage
And some being harder is ok
static pilot
Early legion bm was awful
They buffed it to the point where it was viable but still looked bad on logs etc so nobody played them
vivid sage
I had a survival Hunter friend that topped meters pretty well all the way through legion
Despite public perception of the class being complete doodoo
static pilot
So do you give more buffs to a class that doesn't really need it to up the representation or do you leave them alone and leave the spec underrepresented and unpopular
I hate inviting a random hunter and finding out he's survival
vivid sage
Well you ask yourself why are they underrepresented
static pilot
I'm sure the DPS is fine but if I'm inviting a hunter it's because I want a ranged dps
Triple melee in KR is gonna suck
vivid sage
Is it because the class is patently not fun to play
vivid sage
Is it potentially because the class is too punishing
vivid sage
Wait for reset
static pilot
AFAIK Because the monk was initially undertuned in early legion
vivid sage
You can't
junior ivy
wehen does it reset
vivid sage
You can farm 340s
static pilot
Word got around,, by the time blizzard fixed it the meta had firmly settled that Monks were an anchor
vivid sage
See I have beef with that
static pilot
In three weeks
junior ivy
ikm so confused
vivid sage
Because WW and BRM were high end performers for much longer in legion than people seem ready to admit
static pilot
Your first warfront gives you 1 guaranteed 370 piece
vivid sage
@junior ivy the warfront will reset when you sober up
static pilot
Any more you do that week drops 340
sick sentinel
Iโm pretty casual, and run with some casual minded guildies. We had a real hard time on 5โs last week. I am decently geared, 358, and Iโm wondering- would me wearing a blockades make a noticeable difference for our druid healer?
static pilot
Then in about three weeks you can do it again for another shot at 370
sick sentinel
(He couldnโt do Waycrest or underrot)
static pilot
Druids and warriors aren't the best match
vivid sage
@sick sentinel it's very likely that your issues lie in performance that a trinket will have very little effect on fixing.
static pilot
Druids like smooth damage intake, we alternate between very low damage intake (with mit up) and very high damage intake (when we run out of SB etc)
vivid sage
Be it yours, the healers or the dps
upper spoke
380 vial of animated blood trinket from weekly cache. any good? compared to blockades and a 365 socketed syringe (basically a strength trinket)
vial gives mastery
vivid sage
At that ilvl a +5 should not be particularly challenging
sick sentinel
Well. Iโm.... top DPS... most pulls. I admit my buddies arenโt great and thatโs fine. Iโm just trying to make life smoother anyway I can when we play
I rarely feel in trouble or in danger- unless itโs the zombie that puke green everywhere in AD
static pilot
Where did he struggle in Waycrest?
static pilot
If it was the tree boss you have work to do, if it's witches it's on him
And/or tactics failure
Were people moving to avoid the stacking debuff from the second sister?
sick sentinel
I will say they were aware- but were they moving enough? Iโm not sure. I made sure to jump and shuffle to keep it from stacking.
static pilot
What dps were you running with?
inland mesa
@raven kernel our DK was taking full Zek combo perfectly fine once he started immuning the first healing debuff
static pilot
None of those should have any trouble moving around to clear the stack
inland mesa
People keep getting slowed in add set 2 and dying D:
sick sentinel
Yeah. Iโm just seeing if thereโs anything else I can do to help reduce his load.
inland mesa
And again, after talking to marok this afternoon, I'm forgoing a 45 ilvl upgrade on shoulders cuz I lose DC and you lose way too much uptime on DS
sick sentinel
I know itโs a 5, and for a lot of folks thatโs not much- Iโm just trying to help out my buddy and make life a little easier any way I can.
So you agree @static pilot that a blockades probably wonโt help reduce his stress much?
upper spoke
so deafening crash (thunder clap) azerite armor doesnt drop from uldir?
inland mesa
no ๐ฆ
sick sentinel
I donโt think so
upper spoke
was hoping i was reading this dungeon guide/journal thing wrong
sick sentinel
Thereโs only one or two dungeon shoulders with it, right?
inland mesa
I wear blockades in M+ just to help on 10s and higher, but it really comes down to healing and does the dps kill stuff fast enough before he's out of mitigation @sick sentinel if either is solid I go dps trinkets
upper spoke
and temple
inland mesa
if they're not killing it fast enough, or teaming with all the caster mobs a little more health doesn't hurt, unless his dps would push it over the edge to kill them before he's out of mitigation
static pilot
@tobit every little bit helps but I think there are other areas you can pursue that will be more helpful than dropping 30-50k on a trinket. I know there is a druid talent setup that's more aimed at tank healing but I don't know the details. Maybe it's something worth looking into? Again, I think part of the problem is that warrior damage intake is spiky atm and druids are not by default well equipped to deal with spikes. You can probably help out a bit by kiting and letting his hots get you back up when you have SB gaps
Not something I'd normally recommend for a +5 but everybody's different and this weeks affixes are pretty brutal
Also remind dps to help out with stuns, interrupts, control undead etc
BFA puts a very heavy emphasis on DPS that use all the tools available to them. Purge, soothe, stuns, roots, interrupts etc are all useful
Even fears in a pinch
sick sentinel
Cool. Iโll check their discord, too. I know I can always improve and tighten up my uptime and execution.
But I was afraid the damage spikes might be at the root. There are somethings itโs hard to kite- like those witches. They just sit there and cast. The jerks.
static pilot
Witches are probably the hardest boss in there. It helps to do the mechanics (break MC on 1, move on 2, use personal defensive on 3) and it helps to interrupt and spell reflect as many bolts as possible but ultimately it's a HPS and dps check, not a tank check
plain vapor
mythic zekvos: do you guys swap after the shatter or take the full combo?
raven kernel
Warrior can take full
brazen sequoia
^
plain vapor
mostly concerned for my co-tank
plain vapor
what do you guys use for the combo
brazen sequoia
Last Stand - it will go off CD easily before it's your turn to take again - if you have Bolster, that it
*is
tight tree
Witches are both execution and HPS check. We wad doing +10 tyrannical witches. Took us like 10-15 tries overall. High tyrannical bosses REALLY shows how good you know bosses actually. We learned a lot there and our healer got 2x more skilled during that tries, i am sure ๐ Interrupt coordination is required. Make sure you reflect bolts on CD and others dont waste kicks on them.
They dont melee that often so you can use more rage on IP
plain vapor
hm okay. was using last stand with spell reflect onthe 2nd slash
just gotta pray for the healers to top me up otherwise you dip real low
static pilot
Call it out ahead of time, healers love filling a big empty bar as long as they know it's coming
brazen sequoia
Krook, just do 2/1 to be on the safe side while progressing ๐
or call it out ofc
static pilot
There should be plenty of time to top you off if they're already on top of it. You just don't want them to be caught off guard
tight tree
My ego took a hit when my DK started to taunt off me after 2, i was not even dying ;/ He is convinced that warriors are shit.
brazen sequoia
Technicly you could be the one taking the hits from the combo and the OT could take the boss until he combos
digital arrow
wtf lol
tight tree
And he being MT and raid leader not putting me in a good spot right now
digital arrow
biased
tight tree
Extremely
digital arrow
time to man up and prove him wrong by mitigating more damage than him
tight tree
I already take way less damage according to logs
brazen sequoia
How do you guys deal with fortified btw? In +7 freehold I got oneshotted by almost everything even with IP and Shield Block on. I'm 365
onyx vessel
Prot warrior life
tight tree
Not tanking dungeons lol, not worth the stress
sick sentinel
Yo, levelling 110-120, questing or spam dungeons?
raven kernel
Quest
onyx vessel
Take low dmg but ppl exept you to self sustain
brazen sequoia
YEa that were my original go-to.. but I wanna push some keys because I'm fed up with WQing. Guess I'll go Arms until next week ๐ฆ
elder steppe
Initially I had that problem to, until logs showed exactly what was happening on rights. We mitigate more damage the healers just have to pay attention
Foghts*
Fights*
Phone autocorrect
onyx vessel
Prot warrior have little to no magic mitgation and even less to phys dots
elder steppe
Zekvoz was fun because imo warriors are one of the best for it
For zekvoz our mitigation we do have fits well into the fight
onyx vessel
Some ppl are like look 2 monk tanks used for world 1st
junior ivy
i need someone to tell me if sokmething is an upgradeeee
floral rock
Bruh, if it works for method it'll work for us!
onyx vessel
Alright
elder steppe
The obvious for ease of progression is monk
onyx vessel
If you got DC
elder steppe
Stagger is to good
brazen sequoia
I go with helm from Freehold, chest from Tol Dagor and shoulders from Motherlode. Gives you thudnerclap and 2x shield thingy
onyx vessel
Well i got shoulders from siege
Better overall peice
All s tier
Downside no 2nd SS trait
brazen sequoia
Inner ring traits don't reaaaally matter - does it have any okay outer and middle traits?
brazen sequoia
Wait
onyx vessel
Raids useless
brazen sequoia
Why do you have a Fury thing active if you are prot? xD
onyx vessel
Too skilled
floral rock
also why show the 370 if you're not gonna show the traits, unless I'm missing something
brazen sequoia
I mean, if your current chest is specced into fury - then it's gonna be an upgrade because you're speccing the 370 into prot
onyx vessel
I wonder if you get a 385 azurite peice from mythic does it have the 340 ilvl azurite lvl requirement or higher
junior ivy
i dunno what to pickk
onyx vessel
Plus cahce
brazen sequoia
21+
elder steppe
Higher
onyx vessel
Shit system
elder steppe
For min maxing sure
elder steppe
I think itโs 32 for the 4th ring
onyx vessel
Work time reee
elder steppe
Or center
wise monolith
is a race change to tauren or highmountain tauren worth it?
wise monolith
but isnt it like having a permanent stamina food buff?
stable elm
Only for power of Mooooo as battle cry
tight tree
Stamina is tiny and warriors dont really need it.
stable elm
Mass stun is cool in m+ tho
tight tree
Unless you love how they looks, in that case absolutely worth it ๐
unique swift
Like, it's not bad if you want to be Tauren. Just follow your dreams and bind /moo to your taunt key.
tight tree
bind /y MOOOOOO
wise monolith
i do love tauren lol
unique swift
But then you don't get the satisfying SFX of actual mooing @tight tree ๐ฎ
tight tree
Do both ๐
tight tree
For me its ORC LIFE. Cant be orc, im not playing it. Want to try VDH but being an elf stops me every time.
unique swift
I like BELF because people suck at purging and I like judging them.
stable elm
Mass stun > dispell because ppl suck at interrupting important spells even moar
Everybody knows why ppl play belfs. Donโt be shy.
tight tree
My man, i judge the shit out of everyone i run dungeons with. Slow dispels - i judge. No kicks - i judge. Not coordinating stuff - i judge. Stays in fire - judge.
stable elm
I do let ppl make mistakes but try to have a plan B to fix them. Because I also make mistakes. A lot. Especially on learning curve.
dark junco
Had a mage with me, who never used blizzard in Underrot +8. .. wtf even after I asked 5 fuckign times for the ticks
gg
ember arrow
Pulling ticks ๐ค
dark junco
gotta pull either left or right anyway to clear for dual bitch
stable elm
Do not teach random pugs how to play. It is a big mistake. Get it done or just move on.
digital arrow
I've pulled ticks before because sometimes they get pulled in pugs anyway so im like fuck it, let's get it out of the way now
Time to sleep. Have a good night everyone
tight tree
Pull ticks, stun them, ring of peace, roll away then zen med. EZ. Gong to reroll brewmaster before tho
Valid tactic right here
vivid sage
the pack to the right of the ticks
is distilled aids
went from 3 mobs to 8. i thought there was a pat in there
surreal stump
fair warning from a cow, doors while mounted are your bane
tight tree
Looking at logs, any way to compare my damage taken with DK with his selfheals taken into consideration? IE, i want to see who took less damage: me with all my mitigation VS him with all his mitigation+selfheals
surreal stump
you took less dmg
vivid sage
hot take warriors are fine balance wise and just are harder to play and unforgiving
daring marlin
IDK take your DTPS and his DTPS and add his HPS on top?
only thing I could think of loil
vivid sage
does EHRPS account for your own self healing?
like is it a measure of effective outside healing required, or a measure of the total amount of healing (self + outside) requireed to keep you alive
tight tree
Hmm it should? External healing required per second, im i right?
vivid sage
effective
tight tree
ah
upbeat folio
@tight tree I hope people got that Judge Dredd reference.
tight tree
I AM THE LAW. We need sap like ability for m+. Name it ISO-CUBE, we instantly fine
DHs can fuck right off
hot dove
Is prot competitive with the other tank specs for M+/Raiding?
compact mirage
@tight tree Love it.
hollow urchin
probably a common question, but how many ilvls is Deafening Crash worth (assuming i don't have one already)?
like is it worth using a 340 chest with Deafening Crash over a 370 chest with Laser Matrix?
hollow urchin
๐ค
copper path
How come there are still no simcraft possibilities and wowanalyzer is still broken for prot warrior?
jade socket
๐ค
undone sun
for simcraft it's because there's no active maintainer, the one working on it is on their backlog
analyzer as well
prisma night
On their backlog?
tight tree
Noone cares about prot sims ๐ Hard enough not to die, let alone push DPS ๐
undone sun
it's on their todo list but not top priority @prisma night
prisma night
Oh gotcha, im dumb af
warm axle
how good is syringe of bloodborne infirmary for prot warrriors?
upbeat folio
@tight tree I approve of the new portrait.
tight tree
๐
Salty warriors of Skyhold. This is the law. Disperse immediately, or we will use lethal force to clear the area. You have been warned. You now have 20 seconds to comply.
jade tartan
junior igloo
1+1
analog halo
prisma night
@vivid sage EHRPS is external healing required per second. It doesnt include your healing in the number. If dtps is 20k and your own hps is 11k your ehrps would be 9k.
So only outside healing
brave jetty
Holy shit Temple is CANCER on Teeming/Fortified
There are like 8 bonus stealthers in the first boss room alone, including two that path behind the fucking boss
upbeat folio
Teeming/Fortified is proving to be pretty rough.
I think tyrannical/raging/necrotic will be easier next week.
sick sentinel
omg prot warriors are Fucking amazing, 25k dps on the mini boss guys after golden serpent XD
on a +8
sudden gazelle
Guys is there a neat list for 2nd tier azerite prio?
upbeat folio
In the warrior guide, yes.
sudden gazelle
Currently im trying to decide between HmC, Gutripper and Strength in nubmer, strenght being the obvious choice for surviving
upbeat folio
It's tiered. S/A/B/C.
sudden gazelle
alright ill have a look, thanks
warm axle
how does a DH tank how 30k more hp than my prot warrior :/
have*
and i have much higher item level
undone sun
because ilevel between different tank classes mean very little
each tank has their own health scaling
brave jetty
we have worst HP of all tanks right?
undone sun
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
tight tree
Doesnt mean much
strong forum
Yes prot warri has the lowest health pool and DH the highest HP, besides druids in bear
But HP doesn't represent anything
brave jetty
I thought it represented your hit points?
๐
Yeah I know, it still feels bad though
I like my numbers to be higher than other people's numbers, don't you see?
strong forum
I do get that yes, but I just outgear the plebs, having over 200k HP as prot feels nice >;]
brave jetty
*on stuff we can block
And I generally outgear pretty much most of the groups I do in any content, and have 200k+ when I'm buffed, doesn't mean I enjoy seeing a DK like 10 ilvl below me up 30k+ on me in HP lol
old zephyr
Ehp Maybe, but it has little to do with raw HPs
old zephyr
Prot definitely have some of the highest EHP
junior igloo
No we don't
topaz cove
What is EHP guys Im lost here
junior igloo
How much damage you can take before dying
ember arrow
Effective hitpoints
topaz cove
Ahh okay got ya
ember arrow
Prot. Outside of AM has low ehp
topaz cove
So much much HP is taken after someone hits you
ember arrow
Thats one of its weaknesses
@topaz cove u can have 200k hp raw. But with SW and LS it is 450k ehp
As example
topaz cove
Got it ๐
I tanked Normal uldir last night, felt pretty strong tbh at ilvl 340
Dont see what all the hate is about
ember arrow
Monks got highest. If im wrong ull see meiffert typing
past ledge
Quick question guys, I should go for IL increase regardless of stat right?
topaz cove
Yeah, I've had some tragic runs so far
But I'm in a scrub guild and dps rarely do any mechanics/interupt
so partially not my fault
fair void
it's M+ that prot struggles in
ember arrow
Its an actual house of horrors
ember arrow
Yikes
topaz cove
yeah
ember arrow
In waycrest the matron was infested
topaz cove
Druid has never healed before, thought now would be the time to try
ember arrow
Every invisible witch too
topaz cove
Rofl painful
If you complete it outside the time, it still counts towards the weekly chest right?
ember arrow
Yes
topaz cove
Sweet
tight tree
Now that race is over, better be tank balancing patch imo.
undone sun
if only that was the reason they haven't already...
raven kernel
Make skilled prot the best tank
Then watch top players switch
And watch the bad prots still be bad
๐ ๐ ๐
tight tree
That would be hilarious to watch.
Less hilarious would be if they just nerf BM and Blood.
raven kernel
I'd love nothing more than for half of the other tank population reroll prot to bandwagon then fail miserably
next goblet
watch next raid tier caters to prot
tight tree
Reading tank drama is more fun than actual tanking atm
So any radical change would be welcome ๐
@undone sun I actually think that was the reason, they was collecting more data on mythic bosses. Well i hope so.
undone sun
that's the entire reason for PTR and beta realms
but they don't fucking listen to feedback ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
next goblet
^^
tight tree
@next goblet Everything is blockable, everything is reflectable
next goblet
yes
tight tree
we ARE on beta realms now
raven kernel
Or just make every boss have something reflectable ๐
next goblet
and then change prot, Devastator now baseline, IP is now 15 seconds at 70%
raven kernel
Oh braggha said it
tight tree
Am i right that Zul DOT is physical? We cant block it, but it is reduced by armor?
raven kernel
No
strong forum
I'd prefer if they changed some of the dungeon bosses so that you could actually block anything from then, like 3rd boss in motherlode block is entirely useless
undone sun
question: if you were to be bleeding, would you just put on armor to stop it?
next goblet
define armor
raven kernel
Bring back Bandages
next goblet
because i'd put a cloth on it, and cloth is technically an armor type
ember arrow
If a magic tree lifts me up and crushes me. Why is it magic dmg @undone sun
ember arrow
I dont see non magic trees gripping me
next goblet
you didnt devastate them
tight tree
@undone sun Some stuff is blockable that you never assume it is tho.
next goblet
๐ญ
undone sun
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
next goblet
IE the KJ swirlies
raven kernel
One big buff would be making ranged attacks blockable
undone sun
idd, blizzard and consistency aren't synonymous
tight tree
So high armor does nothing to help on Zul. DH/DK mitigation increases armor, but it does nothing to help on Zul. So my MT and RL was wrong. He said "pot armor to survive stacks" lol
raven kernel
Lol
undone sun
correct
raven kernel
Healing pot maybe
ember arrow
Hes a bit of a ๐
next goblet
wouldn't ignore pain smoothe it a little?
undone sun
yes
raven kernel
Yes
tight tree
IP will
tight tree
Inbf it gets off in 1 tick ofc
ember arrow
Putting a napkin on a gaping wound
raven kernel
But ip is useless according to half the prot players
next goblet
its not useless, its just not nearly as strong as it used to be and shouldn't be used as a main form of mitigation
raven kernel
Tbh the most effective thing on zul is to yell at your healer
next goblet
WING ME
ember arrow
Bring palas
tight tree
BOP CITY ALL DAY
raven kernel
Once my healer didn't follow me out and git out of range even though I moved slowly to the edge
next goblet
i have yet to tank heroic zul
tight tree
I asked in log review already, can someone have a look at my Zul logs? Tanking crushers was shit and i want to know what i was doing wrong.
Should i post here or in log review again?
next goblet
Speaking of zul.. I have 2 priest healers in my group, tell.me why 1 had 53 dispells and the other had 7
ember arrow
I tank crushers
sudden tapir
Hmm, worth race changing to panda from human for the food buff.. o_o;
ember arrow
But as dk
outer tundra
Do you guys do solo content in prot or do you switch?
next goblet
On normal of course
outer tundra
Dailies for example
outer tundra
Isnโt it slow as balls?
ember arrow
Why would it
next goblet
Eh its better than getting deleted
bright arrow
Only for rare group wq if u don't group ofc
sick sentinel
I'd motorboat a homeless dude's naked groin for gladiator stance back
undone sun
hmmm
tight tree
Prot all the way. You never die and burst is hugeass. DPS trinkets.
next goblet
Like the "rare elite" mobs that dont require a group i just demo shout avatar and tc the fuck out of the mobs
ember arrow
Implying any trinket isnt a dps trinket
tight tree
Main reason tho, you never get dazed or dismounted
next goblet
^^
tight tree
I unequip blockades and equip red button, thats what i mean ๐
ember arrow
Gearswapping? Are u tryhard?
sick sentinel
I don't want to pass level 115, cause the way warriors work now has got my Kakushan's all moist
tight tree
Yeah, recently had arms+beasmaster jump at me. Deleted both.
junior igloo
Maybe he felt sorry for you and feigned death?
ember arrow
next goblet
I was in voldun fighting the one sethrek mob and a rogue thought he was gonna pewp on me.. I hit that avatar and DS and as soon as those fell off i hit dragon charge and knocked him off the platform, watched him die lol
The one by the big pyramid tower thing, opposite of temple dungeon, I'm ally so i dont know the zone too well lol
outer tundra
Rogues lost the ability where they can fall and not take damage.
I learned that the hard way when BFA launched and I wanted to see rogue
ember arrow
All specs lost it?
next goblet
It was amazing
ember arrow
Bfa, removing things left and right
outer tundra
They just lost the immunity one
tight tree
@ember arrow Na he was shitty backpeddling dragonslayer.
merry cave
You mean 'cat like reflexes' that was on a rogue not a feral
half merlin
what are ya'lls haste % at unbuffed by into the fray? i'm at 17%, no idea what the 'baseline' is
amber siren
no baseline, everyone's levels will be different as ilvl is still the priority
zealous crest
mild vigil
Joys of pugging: 3 omega vectors on a tank ๐
hearty portal
Btw guys have we stopped calling prot viable since we cant tank Mythic fettid devourer?
We just take way to much damage
If something isnt working, in my world that means that it is not viable
round vortex
Without considering the evidence if a tank was โliterally unableโ to tank a fight with suitable gear and correct play Iโd say yes itโs not viable. Is that prot? Not yet but itโs pretty close.
Iโm honestly getting tired of auto reject on keys ๐ซ
humble flame
valid gorge
sharp lotus
i was just fucking around, no one is going to talk on behalf of the entire community you feels me
hearty portal
I'm not saying its entirely impossible. Its just extremly hard to do it with a warrior. People that are attempting him with a prot warrior are struggling hard
spice musk
are the armor Pots not better than the Strengh one? I mean i get more Armor with them. Or is Strengh favorite because of the DPS increase too?
grim prism
Str = more DPS, bigger IP, and doubledips with armor
vital wren
@hearty portal You might wanna call for snipe heals on the fights
junior igloo
what do you mean by doubledips?
final mist
You just have to play really good on Fetid.
Same way you needed to play really good on Krosus, or similar fights.
vital wren
Right now we have a 2nd tank in our raid group, a backup, also a warrior
He is playing a passive build with Indomitable, no Anger Management and no Booming Voice
He took triple the dmg taken than me, rofl
final mist
Then he should not be tanking or a tank backup.
vital wren
Idd
sharp lotus
I still don't think we were bad on star auger.
vital wren
I'm glad that we atleast have spell reflect for the 5 sec 20% magic dmg reduce
final mist
It was undeniably one of the worst fights for us, you needed to play really well to minimize your chances of dying since he didn't melee at all, and that's why people said we were "unviable" for it, which was completely untrue.
A shitty fight, sure, same way Fetid is, but that doesn't make us unviable.
vital wren
It's very much possible to do +11 mythics, not in pugs tho, I grow sick of pug groups lately...
What did u guys get this week from M+ chest for last week for prot spec? ^^
cinder pasture
380 ring with crit and haste, not too bad โค
vagrant cape
385 callous reprisal chest
vital wren
I got 385 azerite spaulders with deafening crash
sharp lotus
do we still hate crit or do we like it now that last stand heal can crit?
final mist
We never hated crit.
vale basalt
Guys what do think of this idea? Make demo shout also an AOE taunt
vagrant cape
@vital wren you only asked so you could humblebrag you anus tart
cinder pasture
Other stats were just better than crit :p
vital wren
Not true
final mist
And you prefer ilevel over everything (sans DC) anyways, same as Legion.
Crit just has more value now than it did because BC doesn't exist.
vagrant cape
BC?
final mist
Battle Cry.
vital wren
Rally ?
vagrant cape
ah, I couldn't get burning crusade out of my head
nah, battle cry was our old "dps" cd
got replaced by avatar
sharp lotus
really happy about that change
vagrant cape
same
vagrant cape
I main prot pally in legion and I gotta say that I truly miss a ranged interrupt
sharp lotus
i just cant adjust to the gcd on top of this lag im having. I am still unsure if its just me
vagrant cape
avengers shield saved me from taking so many casts right to the face
sharp lotus
getting 300 world ms all the time, ill get an hour of 30 and then it will go right back up
is this just me?
inner trail
Good thing about prot tank is safeguard, since you can really help the other tank through hard hitting mechanics if you're not taking as much damage. Like odyn spears were pretty easy with that talent.
So that might be a reason to bring one anyway
tawny lantern
hey guys i was doing mythic mother yesterday and my cotank was a druid. I was in charge of just adds on 2nd chamber. On a few trys i stole agro from him from the boss by just hitting it. It got to a point that i couldnt dps at all during the first seconds of the fight and i just stod there but even without doing any dps i was 2nd in the aggro chart not far from the druid. According to logs there was not tricks or anything like that directed to me, anyone knows why this happens? is a tank mechanic? or is this a boss mechanic?
tulip pond
It's just druids being pretty terrible at generating threath. Is he taunting on pull?
frosty wedge
late to the convo but re: fall damage - do you all remember when defensive stance reduced ALL damage by 10%
tawny lantern
he was after i told him to, but the problem persisted
frosty wedge
so you could just jump off of anything in def stance and live
sharp lotus
@final mist Do you guys plan on doing more podcasts?
tight tree
@tawny lantern Start tanking first, have him taunt off before you go to other room. Or even better, have him on adds and tank Mother yourself.
sharp lotus
awesome, thanks
frosty wedge
weird that we're above monks?
mellow bridge
well I'm pretty sure if this was a graph of like
frosty wedge
5+
mellow bridge
+7 at least then it'd be a lot diff
frosty wedge
yeah fair
knotty ermine
I know all tanks across the top 500 runs for each dungeon, each week since the expansion has launched isn't really as difinitive as death counts in Uldir, but its still a bit of solid news
Not really a huge shift aside from the swing in favor of DKS
Higher in key you go, the bias toward DKs grows
other tanks relative to each other stays similar
I'd be interested in revisiting the data once we've completed a full cycle of affixes
sharp lotus
^
knotty ermine
And tbh, I'm fairly certain Blizzard will be doing the same.
junior igloo
Also, you are looking at unique characters, so when you struggle through that 1 dungeon on your alt for weekly chest, it counts as equal to spamming a bunch of runs on your main
sharp lotus
hes saying its counting the amount of people who have done a +10, regardless of how many
i think
uneven mason
Amazingly haveing 5 ways to interrupt casters and a get out of death free card makes BDKs a premium tank for high keys
No idea why that would be
mellow bridge
yea that +10 count seems about right
uneven mason
๐
knotty ermine
That would be true, but the IO numbers are only pulled from the top 500 leaderboards, so that run you are struggling against likely wouldnt register anyway right? (unless say, you ground out a 10 early week, played on a backwoods server, or did it with someone from a backwoods server, no?)
uneven mason
Prot seems to be scaling at a much higher rate than other tanks for just raw survivability, so mebbie by the time the season ends Prot will be so insanely tough that we'll be able to bulldozer 15s 
junior igloo
druids ๐
All I'm saying is that you should look at frequency.
Because doing 10 dungeons should count as 10 and not as 1.
(In your settings it only counted each character once regardless of how many dungeons they do)
knotty ermine
Looking at the distribution numbers, (with the HUGE caveat being that we havent gone through a complete cycle of affixes, so the data is far from complete), I would say that the current state is pointing to a much stronger likilihood that Blizzard pushes DKs down in some way, versus pushes the other 5 (or 4, if you want to leave Pallies as-is) up.
Is that what that is, @junior igloo ? My understanding was that I'm looking at the total presense of each unique tank class across the top 500 runs for each dungeon, each week, since the expansion has launched. Is that not correct?
So if I run 10 dungeons, and all are placed on the board (and thus tracked by IO), then all 10 are included in that count
junior igloo
Yeah, I think so.
So when you do 1 dungeon +10 on every character for weekly chest (which a lot of the higher level players do), you end up with equal representation because all character were played.
knotty ermine
get out, you