i dont think so
#protection
ember arrow
infested is handpicked
the mobs that have it
its not random
although maybe they adjusted on teeming, but that would require bit more effort
so i wouldnt put money on it
strong hill
motherload should be interesting this week
wild bolt
Yikes
astral crystal
hnnngh
grim prism
Motherlode should be interesting AIDS Concentrate this week
ember arrow
what do you mean
wild bolt
Yeah but Avatar in Motherlode is going to be SPICY this week 😄
uneven mason
@valid gorge You'd be shocked at how many folks miss the basics that Levko just went over.
valid gorge
I mean i thought it was pretty clear from the way I typed that up that It was a lighthearted joke like thing?
ember arrow
often its just "PULL PULL PULL"
strong hill
me looking at my guildies and their motherload/king rest keys this week
ember arrow
motherload has easy trash
valid gorge
ofcourse you're not going to tank 4 berserkers at once if you actually have to deal with it
ember arrow
jsut alot of it
uneven mason
TBH Motherlode will probably be an easier key just because you can have a lot of extra space opened up
uneven mason
Folks look at Motherlode and see "OMG SO MUCH TRASH" and I look at it and go - those boss arenas and starting beach are nice pull spots
ember arrow
u death run till last boss
u kill all trash, before u kill the rock dude
then u death skip
ember arrow
well, u wanna deal with masterminds?\
ember arrow
no but the problem u said
uneven mason
that wrecks
valid gorge
You just know that pack before the azerite boss is going to have 3 masterminds in it
uneven mason
yup
ember arrow
so better to kill the easy trash bef
uneven mason
you rub your nuts on the left wall and only deal with the 1 mastermind pull
knotty ermine
But, if I don't pull masterminds, I don't get to spell reflect them
chilly brook
So heroic g’huun is actually really fun
@knotty ermine speaking of SR get any sick reflect damage on bosses last week?
strong hill
go on, were listening
strong hill
ghunn, wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic or not 😃
grim prism
Dope
chilly brook
Preach’s explanation of it in his video today was spot on
Long execute phase that’s a war of attrition between your group and the boss
knotty ermine
Reflecting first boss in under WHEN MY DPS DOESNT INTERRUPT THE ONE DAMN TIME I TELL EM NOT TO
chilly brook
Lol
strong hill
lol
knotty ermine
Also, 3rd boss in shrine was a big one
chilly brook
The second to last boss I was reflecting him for 106k extra damage
Yea shrine
That being said shrine 10 on tyrannical 🤢
knotty ermine
That key went pop for me, sadly.
Group couldn't stop shitting their pants on the sunken city part
chilly brook
Too much retarded DPS for our key lol
strong hill
@knotty ermine i got a heroic underot , had a rogue and a dk for dps, figured nothing was going to get cast, NOPE ! i guess interupts are for chumps 🤔
knotty ermine
Didn't complete the dungeon
chilly brook
They all died to the first bosses charge at least once
knotty ermine
"oh NOW you fckers want to interrupt??" May have been said a time or two in disc
Also reflected chemical burn on 3rd boss in ML. Didn't wreck her, but I feel like that's an accomplishment
subtle fossil
- in Kings Rest, 1st in Temple and 2nd in Shrine were the tricky ones needing mass dps, rest of the bosses were quite straightforward i thought.
knotty ermine
1st in KR just needs mass entanglement
knotty ermine
Or that
knotty ermine
Resto and boomy can for sure
chilly brook
Yes they all can
subtle fossil
stun entanglement or typhoon
knotty ermine
Gold bros
subtle fossil
blobs at first
ember arrow
ohhh
chilly brook
It’s so disgusting outside
ember arrow
ye i was gonna say u can grip, but maybe not a great idea
knotty ermine
"just"83%? laughs in South Carolina
knotty ermine
Cunt
chilly brook
eyes nervously while sitting in Virginia
knotty ermine
But I fared far better than my family and others on the coast
chilly brook
Yea 🙁
sick sentinel
I need your opinion on a trinket swap
knotty ermine
Was hoping a tree would fall on my truck tbh, tired of paying for it
sick sentinel
(screenshot incoming)
chilly brook
Hahahahaha
uneven mason
@knotty ermine do you have hurricane insurance on your truck?
If not - you'd still have to pay for it
and pay for a new vehicle
knotty ermine
Acts of God are covered by both my auto and my homeowner since it would have been on my property at the time
sick sentinel
if I decide to keep it
knotty ermine
May or may not have checked
uneven mason
Wellthen
mellow bridge
i might be wrong captain but I think you should keep dooms and darkmoon
uneven mason
I get a kick out of that phrase
knotty ermine
Strangely enough, it depends on whether the tree that fell was dead or alive at the time that it fell
uneven mason
"Acts of God"
uneven mason
As if God would be all like "Fuck that dudes car, yeah that one in particular"
chilly brook
Lol
sick sentinel
@uneven mason isn’t it funny how insurance companies suddenly get religion when they don’t wanna cover something?
chilly brook
“His truck really pisses me off he’s never happy with it and is always coveting his neighbors car. I think I’m going to smash it.”
uneven mason
@knotty ermine That's because if the tree was dead it would be negligence on the part of the property owner for not removing it before the accident happened
Thus - it matters
knotty ermine
Last week some assclown blatantly ran a red light crossing the intersection in front of me. Locked up my brakes and narrowly avoided tboning the shit out of him and potentially (probably) totalling my truck
May or may not have been cussing myself the whole way home afterwards.
chilly brook
When is reset again? 40 minutes?
knotty ermine
And yeah, I get the why, just never occurred to me haha. Seemed kind of wierd when the guy asked me "well was the tree alive or dead when it fell"
I thought it was a wierd joke or something at first
chilly brook
Would they ever come out to check 🤔
uneven mason
I got in two accidents in my entire life...once was in my current car, which is a fiberglass modern car....and once in my 1985 Chrysler 5th ave
to fix my current car it cost 3500$ (they paid for it)
to fix my 1985 it took 12$
which involved a bottle of paint and some wax
teh SUV that hit me was totaled
knotty ermine
Been in a couple, but never my fault. I attract stupid people, apparently (see: dude blatantly running red light last week)
chilly brook
I’ve only gotten in one accident and it wasn’t even my fault....
knotty ermine
Lol. My old truck I was rear ended by a Chevy Cobalt once. Cobalt was totaled. My truck's bumper needed a quick touch-up with Krylon. Ignore pain was OP, obviously
chilly brook
Two lane road, pulling out of parking lot plenty of time, get in the suicide lane and start to merge and this lady behind me starts to gun it and tries threading the needle because for some reason she couldn’t handle being behind me
bronze lance
Totaled a truck. A car. And a motorcycle.
Plus a bunch of dirt bike crashes
No injuries.
uneven mason
that 1985, could top out at 120mph and weighed 5800lbs, couldn't turn for shit tho
So it was like the protection warrior
chilly brook
My only serious injury was from wrestling, tearing my acl
knotty ermine
Current truck is a heaping sack if shit for anyone looking to buy a new GMC, all I can say is- Don't. Also, something something IP sucks, rabble rabble prot warrior stuff
valid gorge
How do I spec motorcycle and truck as prot warrior?
uneven mason
I can't think of a brand that has been worth a shit since 1998
chilly brook
hey guys, I’ve been told prot warrior sucks is it true?
valid gorge
Yes
chilly brook
Dude too true
chilly brook
Who tf would use a dr and damage cd all the time?
knotty ermine
Ohh btw, following up in last night- ran a few m+ with the 2x CR and 1 DC setup. It was actually REALLY fun, but only when getting a steady stream of procs. Wouldn't recommend it seriously, but the numbers were fun on large pulls. (My healer may disagree because of the BV I gave up on those pulls, ha)
frosty wedge
oh man... method just wiped at 4.8%
uneven mason
rough
marble pelican
so last night I got the 370 Biomelding Clever from the weekly mytic quest...not bad not bad, still need that 340+ trinket. I did 3 mythic+ last night and got 0 loot, 0....
blissful imp
Yo. Shields can drop from end of dungeon reward in M+, right? Dunno how many AD 8-10+s and have only gotten the trinket twice. Hoping and praying for a beaut of a shield in my chest this week
chilly brook
Yes they can
grim prism
YEAH FUCK SCO
chilly brook
I’m just tired of seeing method
grim prism
And yes they do @blissful imp
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uneven mason
TFW you discover all they're missing is a protection warrior
blissful imp
Only a matter of time then
valid gorge
:D
ember arrow
lol
knotty ermine
Ever since method was exposed at the beginning of Nighthold for blatant account sharing, paying guild members to run split runs for them, boosting characters and grinding gear for them, and Blizzard willfully turned a blind eye, I have wished for nothing but the absolute worst to befall them.
lusty grotto
goddamn it where's that indom emoji
knotty ermine
It quite literally changed the landscape of raiding in WoW, because numerous guilds crumbled just from not being able to/being unwilling to keep pace with Method, and turns out they were blatantly cheating (and have even admitted to doing so)
frosty wedge
if method doesn't get it now Limit is going to get it after reset
plain vapor
https://old.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/9gshu0/protection_warrior_needs_a_rework_immediately/ top post on reddit today
knotty ermine
I'm not so stupid to think it was only Method doing it ofc, but there was mountains of evidence including communications from Sco and others discussing it, and even the spreadsheet with payouts, etc, and Blizzard did absolutely nothing.
So yeah. Fck method.
plain vapor
🤔
frosty wedge
LIk eyou said, every guild was doing it, to compete they had to as well. Now they're the only ones actively streaming and being transparent
lusty grotto
oops i downvoted
frosty wedge
for all we know Limit is exploiting fights to keep up
ionic ridge
The reddit post gave me cancer...
frosty wedge
I actually like that they didn't fold and just started being transparent with their shit
lusty grotto
fucking reddit
uneven mason
Method is a company - company's use shady practices to make the most money, to make the most money, Method has to continue to be #1, if they stop being #1 they'll rapidly fall apart...I mean, They're hardly ahead of the other guilds and DO PAY THEIR MEMBERS
blissful imp
Dunno why so many people put so much stock into the race to kill raid bosses. It is largely a function of how many people you can get that can afford to play the game for 18 hours a day weeks at a time. Or apparently paying people to gear up alts for you lul
sinful vortex
Assuming all businessess use "shady tactics" 
ionic ridge
@frosty wedge Not updated on the subject, can you explain the exploit ?
frosty wedge
I'm not saying they are - I'm saying Method are the only ones being trasparent
uneven mason
He was just being devils advocate
junior igloo
Mostly account sharing @ionic ridge
knotty ermine
Split runs were a huge cancer in Legion, and the reason Method was able to churn through so many was because they were paying people to level and play characters for them, to have as many splits/feeding runs as possible. It would be an absolutely insane pace to keep up legitimately, and thus many guilds just burned out in it.
Like I said, I'm certain other guilds were too
ionic ridge
@junior igloo how is account sharing an exploit Oo
valid gorge
it's against the ToS
knotty ermine
But MANY weren't, and the guild that was the driving force behind it was caught, red handed, and absolutely nothing happened to them.
junior igloo
It's not exploit, not sure if anyone called it so, it's against the ToS though
ionic ridge
@junior igloo I figured, when you said exploit I thought "wait, maybe he means playing on two characters from the same account AT THE SAME TIME"
knotty ermine
That plebbit thread, lol
lusty grotto
how does this reddit thread get 2k upvotes
knotty ermine
Can we all just go flood Reddit with "prot warriors are fine, you just suck at playing one"
lusty grotto
what the fuck
uneven mason
I mean, hey if the folks who can't play prot complain enough and we do get buffed..
hurray?
ember arrow
🤔
knotty ermine
There are a lot of people that had to heal shitty prot warriors I guess
vagrant cape
It's the disc priests complaining I bet.
merry cave
Any buff will come with air nerf
knotty ermine
Disc priests wouldn't dare bring attention to themselves
merry cave
Aoe
junior igloo
I don't think I mentioned exploit myself.
You can't log 2 characters from the same account, it will log you out, but you can buy a 2nd account and transfer one of your characters to the second account.
knotty ermine
Even complaining about something else
grim prism
Prot isnt going to get touched
Until 8.1 at least
We are "fine" and blizzard doesnt give a shit
There are higher-represented classes with complaints just as loud
ionic ridge
The only thing I want buff is my HP pool
lusty grotto
people are making these threads because of that AMA and the shamans reply
ionic ridge
(and a little bit of IP)
knotty ermine
I'd be ok with tunning here or there, but a rework would suck. I'm actually thoroughly enjoying prot ATM.
Tuning**
ionic ridge
^+1
It's so satisfying to pop ava/demo break the dps meters and have your cd's back at the end, aswell as demo
knotty ermine
Like that idiot in the thread "look at the death statistics in Uldir!1!" Like yeah no shit DKs will be the lowest, it's almost like they have a get out of jail free card, or something
grim prism
Reworking a tank that only 5% of tanks play wouldn't be a priority. We just got a massive rework so another rework next patch is highly unlikely. We'll get some numbers tuning at the end of this tier and zero communication to go along with them.
vagrant cape
The numbers in that post don't lie, there are no prot warriors in top spots.
I think the representation is so low because prot was perceived as bad at the end of Legion and it carried over and was amplified by IP being on GCD.
grim prism
Welcome to prot btw
uneven mason
I mean
knotty ermine
Say it with me
grim prism
^
knotty ermine
"IP coming off the GCD won't fix prot"
uneven mason
^^
edgy elm
>prot
>2018
>btw
"Gosh I can spam this ability - with my ever so abundant rage"
grim prism
I still dont get how that is the chief complaint people have
knotty ermine
Because
knotty ermine
That's too negative
vagrant cape
I never said it would. I'm just saying people aren't playing it because people see and and shiver with disgust
uneven mason
is it your imagination?
uneven mason
"There is no IP, there is only you, and the floor"
grim prism
Rage expenditure is directly related to rage generation. Your builders are ICD-gated. IP off GCD just means more devs.
Wew laddie
mortal pike
It would help..
edgy elm
@vagrant cape is the (He/Him) the pronouns you would like us to use?
vagrant cape
@edgy elm yes please :)
knotty ermine
Not even a little bit
uneven mason
it would have about a 8% Increase in our overall RPS (because we wouldn't have an opportunity cost associated with IP anylonger)
valid gorge
People will forever perceive prot as shit tier as long as any scrub can faceroll a monk or DK and perform the same as a god tier warrior player
edgy elm
@vagrant cape you're a memer for sure brev
ember arrow
^hence worse class
valid gorge
hence worse class, indeed.
ember arrow
if it requires more effort for less reward
knotty ermine
The only thing it would help is that it would send the wave of blathering fools onto something else to complain about, and I could finally stop hearing that IP being on the GCD is the reason for all things negative with prot warriors
uneven mason
I mean, its not wrong that we're the worst tank for the average player
ember arrow
thats even more showing
vagrant cape
@edgy elm as long as it serves a purpose for those who care
valid gorge
IP on GCD is the reason why it feels bad
ember arrow
for bad players, tank balance is especially noticeable
valid gorge
not why it is bad
knotty ermine
"less reward" is false
uneven mason
We are dogshit tier in theh ands of a player who could probably play BDK or VDH just fine
knotty ermine
But the first part is true.
uneven mason
less reward is exactly the term Carnival
lusty grotto
ROFL
knotty ermine
Equal reward.
ember arrow
are you sure about taht
knotty ermine
Yes?
valid gorge
if that were true you could easily prove it with statistics and logs
please provide them
:D
ember arrow
how do u isntantly displace adds towards ur group
how do u immune ur healer wit bop
how do u silence aoe
uneven mason
Rewards are relative by the required effort to achieve them
valid gorge
^ good point
ember arrow
isntead u do tons of dmg, which is irrelevant in m+, where u must kite
uneven mason
End Reward - Effort = Actual Reward
vagrant cape
Let's be honest y'all, we're only here talking drama right now because we're sitting bored and waiting for our 380 shields 😎
frosty wedge
lol
uneven mason
Is that why I don't feel prot is weak?
edgy elm
Well, truth be told that Blizzard tries to give players a sense of pride and accomplishment by playing Protection Warrior.
ember arrow
lmao
uneven mason
because I have a fucking bank vault door strapped to my arm
knotty ermine
Ikarikaze, your formula doesn't account for enjoyment of playing said spec either. Reward is what you get out of it, and what your group gets out of it
vagrant cape
Cries into 345 shield, the only one to ever love him.
uneven mason
Carnivale that is not the same as gameplay reward
ember arrow
"i like it its not bad"
uneven mason
that is enjoyment, completely seperate from being rewarded for good gameplay by better overall performance
grim prism
I like how people were butthurt about the legion AA saying that they wished you could move while channeling
uneven mason
finding the class "fun" is irrelevant in the context of if you are rewarded with superior performance from superior gameplay
knotty ermine
If I enjoy playing Prot FAR more than playing faceroll tanks, my personal reward is great. Sounds like we were making 2 diff arguments though so I get what you're saying. I was looking in totality.
vagrant cape
@uneven mason that shield would definitely make me feel... "Safe" 🤣
edgy elm
Real talk
rain dune
I loved the legion AA; am I retarded?
grim prism
And LS now is basically Legion AA on steroids, including being able to move
edgy elm
you guys ever notice that no black women go to Starbucks?
grim prism
And people are decrying it being gone
plain vapor
..?
ember arrow
wut
vagrant cape
Alarrab, please keep this prot related. Start whining or get out
valid gorge
If you had two devices to inflate a tire, one requiring you to press a button and the other requiring you to dance the rumba for three minutes, both costing the same, which would you use to inflate your tires?
knotty ermine
But if my group is rewarded equally by me playing well as Prot, versus some scrubber smashing keys on his DK, the end outcome is the same, no?
uneven mason
!= 100% block for 15s
grim prism
LS fills the exact same niche as legion AA did, filling SB uptime
valid gorge
obviously the dancing one once, and then after that the button one
edgy elm
@vagrant cape you're right
uneven mason
was a massive level of on demand DR
edgy elm
WHY IS PROT WARRIOR SO ASS
ember arrow
@valid gorge obviously the one wehere u dance, since i can feel better by doing more work
logic
knotty ermine
Or me playing Prot versus me playing DK, assume equal skill level. Groups reward and the outcome would be the same, only difference is the effort it took in my part yeah?
valid gorge
device 1 is quite clearly better than device 2
ember arrow
i agree wit u
valid gorge
and we could say that device 2 was, in practice, pretty shitty
edgy elm
#MakeProtGreatAgain
uneven mason
@grim prism that is situational though, the assured critical block was why Warriors could take insane stacks on Argus
valid gorge
they're both "viable" to inflate your tire
valid gorge
but why would you ever use device 2, other than novelty
knotty ermine
I would argue I do more dps as Prot than a healer would in his free windows healing someone else (and someone else's dmg)
ember arrow
doing dps is irrelevant in keys
grim prism
@valid gorge bro what are you even talking about lol
ember arrow
since u WILL kite fortified trash
grim prism
I dont follow this analogy at all
knotty ermine
Then why did you just bring it up lmao
mortal pike
knotty ermine
It's dmg being done by you're group though o.0
valid gorge
It's based on carnivale's statement that prot = more effort for equal reward
ember arrow
^
uneven mason
I don't think any of the tanks will be doing too hot on +15s and pushes this week
merry cave
Lol dps is irrelevant, your a special kind of person.
valid gorge
and therefore it not being "shitty"
grim prism
Ahhhh
valid gorge
I think it's pretty damn shitty
grim prism
Yeah no I agree
uneven mason
Well
ember arrow
making sense there
vagrant cape
@knotty ermine the thing is there are so few places where everything is equal. Different fights and healers and even different dps will radically change which fights are easier or harder.
I read a post earlier about how a demon hunter was losing 55% of their health from Yazma's skewer through demon spikes on a +10. That ability tickles me.
uneven mason
we do have stronger snap aggro on the engage
grim prism
I thought you were talking about my Legion AA argument and I was very confuses
valid gorge
Oh no, not at all
uneven mason
@vagrant cape That is how VDH work though, they eat damage in chunks, but are easier to keep alive because they have a massive HP pool compared to us
ember arrow
morg jabbing at me again without reading what i say, but whats new under the sun
valid gorge
thanks for pointing out what to downvote, @lusty grotto D:
merry cave
You make it out like you kite the entire time which is a load of crap
rain dune
If you're kiting all the time you're not holding threat.
grim prism
I mean kiting is very important on high m+
rain dune
If you're not holding threat you're not tanking.
grim prism
Its just a fact
rain dune
And if you can't take a hit you shouldn't be in that key.
grim prism
You have to do both
ember arrow
use cds to go in for threat, then kite
valid gorge
High DPS is a somewhat decent niche to have but it does not get you into raid/m+ groups if it means you are a wet noodle that happens to hit hard
you're still a wet noodle
ember arrow
but threat isnt an issue
odd ridge
Gentlemen, gentlemen... we cant fight here, this is the war room
uneven mason
- for pun
knotty ermine
I mean you make an argument, and then when I counter that argument you write it off as though it suddenly doesn't matter. This may come as a shock to you, but different tanks bring different strengths depending on the situation, so arguing in absolutes like "healer dps is better rbecause you're kiting all the time 100%" is just a stupid argument to make.
lusty grotto
@valid gorge 🤷
grim prism
@warm spear its not casual friday, pls retain memes til the end of the week
@odd ridge 👌 💣
lusty grotto
how are we a wet noodle
valid gorge
Warrior has no strength over another tank significant enough to want to bring one
valid gorge
sure a prot warrior will do more dps, but your healer will have far less DPS time
gott add that up
frosty wedge
not if you're picking the tank up off the ground every 2 pulls - which is what happens with shitty warriors
lusty grotto
how are you getting hit so goddamn hard in M+ lol
plain vapor
then learn to play
valid gorge
when a DK tanks your healer can pretty much go balls to the wall in dps
rain dune
Seriously do you guys have 325 shields?
frosty wedge
I'm not saying all warriors are shitty - I'm syaing shitty warriors make us look bad
warm spear
Tfw you have a 385 one hander and just a 340 shield
valid gorge
in m+?
they are not spikey at all, rofl
they have amazing control over their own healthbar
chilly brook
@lusty grotto good lord what is this cancer?
lusty grotto
I appreciate your downvote sir
chilly brook
Right well
lusty grotto
i mean your upvote Griff 😃
knotty ermine
Shitty warriors make the issues surrounding Prot seem far worse than they really are.
chilly brook
I’m going to have to actually consider making this prot warrior video......
This is actually getting out of hand lol
knotty ermine
Warriors take some modicum of skill, that requirement isn't present on any other tank at the moment.
valid gorge
it's funny how shitty players of the other tank classes don't have that effect, while there is quite a bit more of them
lusty grotto
have i ever told you guys when ToS went live, and warriors couldn't tank Fel claws for shit? and people said we were bad
jovial reef
"pRoT iS FiNe"
knotty ermine
The good news is, we've had this debate in record time today, usually it isn't until noon or so that we really dive into it daily.
chilly brook
I mean prot is fine
lucid bough
Buahhh Prot warrior needs more skill than other tanks Buaaaaah
chilly brook
It can literally clear all content rn
lusty grotto
HELP I CAN'T MANAGE SB/LS UPTIME
lucid bough
Its actually funny
lusty grotto
bad warriors
valid gorge
^
odd ridge
I thought we were under strict orders to just agree with the doomsayers so we dont get nerfed?
chilly brook
🤔
lucid bough
Prot Warrior always has the most or second most deaths on average per encounter. in mythic
lolol
chilly brook
I can’t clean my room with a toothbrush what do you mean
summer kestrel
Im kinda amused at how many of you think that warriors are like the epitome of skill
lusty grotto
not with that attitude
summer kestrel
No sir, we aren't
lucid bough
bad players LOL
mortal pike
I mean
rain dune
@summer kestrel have you played another tank?
chilly brook
@summer kestrel because for tanks they are 🤔
mortal pike
Prot warriors have not killed that many bosses
knotty ermine
Ahh yes, death statistics, the end all be all that tells you everything you need to know
rain dune
My alt is a BrM and it's literally faceroll
plain vapor
because theres less people playing them
mortal pike
and the ones that have been killed we are fine one
plain vapor
WOW imagine that
lucid bough
average
knotty ermine
No context needed here boys, discussion closed
lucid bough
its percentile bro
chilly brook
Because death statistics and kills tell you the whole story 🤔
lusty grotto
uh oh
summer kestrel
You are mistaken punish with skill
lucid bough
its not absolute number
warm spear
Honestly you need a really high IQ to undrrstand prot warrior
lucid bough
LOL
valid gorge
:')
lusty grotto
wut
earnest zinc
The problem is more of BRM and BDK being OP
lucid bough
its not
mortal pike
Not rly
lusty grotto
punish with skill 🤔
chilly brook
That’s not really the problem
valid gorge
That's bullshit
lucid bough
as I said
summer kestrel
You don't need skill to play prot
warm spear
Only elite players like me can actually play it, prot is fine btw
knotty ermine
Any person that links that stat, I am just going to put into the same camp as the idiots proclaiming "IP on the GCD is why Prot is so baaaaaad"
mortal pike
Nothing is OP in raids
valid gorge
Tank representation is actually in a very good spot if you ignore druids and warriors
lucid bough
we are the spec with most 1st deaths per encounter, in the top 25% of players xDDD
chilly brook
Clearly the logs show otherwise
summer kestrel
You are just punished hard by not playing with a lot of prevention
lusty grotto
@summer kestrel you dont need skill to play any class, just common sense, what is your point?
uneven mason
@lucid bough That has a lot to do with just a lot of shitty Prot warriors...
uneven mason
Not kidding
valid gorge
top 10% prot warriors are shitty players?
lucid bough
dont have shitty plaersd?
valid gorge
🤔
mortal pike
Matters less when you play monk
lucid bough
Invalid argument bro
chilly brook
Other classes don’t kill you for not keeping up ISB
jovial reef
Method is too bad to use prot warriors, it's only for the most elite of players
uneven mason
Actually its not
lucid bough
It is
uneven mason
Other tanks have way more error forgiveness
frosty wedge
ghuun currently at 14%
uneven mason
if you're shit on a monk you're still 75% effective
chilly brook
Blood DK has an entire talent that prevents their death
uneven mason
if you're shit on a warrior you're 20% effective
valid gorge
if your class is so punishing that only the top 1% players can play it "correctly" and have it be as good (not better) as the rest
your class is shit mate
ember arrow
You dont pick pirg though
valid gorge
virtually unplayable
ember arrow
Purg
uneven mason
Stuff like get out of death free cards ( Paladin BDK VDH)
chilly brook
Oh AND SO DOES PROT PALLY
uneven mason
massive soaking potential/Manasponge tanking (VDH Druid Monk)
chilly brook
Clearly
summer kestrel
Tanks having tank cooldowns god forbid
lusty grotto
lol
lucid bough
not related to the shitty spec
chilly brook
🤔
lucid bough
but some people really enjoy getting hard in AOE m+ dps, so ya
uneven mason
DPS parses?
mortal pike
I like this tbh, buffs would be nice
astral crystal
380 mchimba's wraps haHAA
chilly brook
Hmmmmmmmm
lucid bough
ahahah
knotty ermine
Again, if you're looking at top death count as a valuable and definitive statistic on a class@s performance, I assume you're just an idiot and there isn't any value in trying to argue with you anyway.
chilly brook
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
hazy nacelle
So how badly do I want deafening crash? I just looted a 45 item level azerite upgrade with a piece that doesn't have it that would have to replace a piece that does have it.
stoic kite
Is 50 ilvls an uppgrade even if it hasss CRIT?
mortal pike
Yes wtf
lucid bough
its actually sad
lusty grotto
@stoic kite obviously
summer kestrel
You don't want deafening crash
stoic kite
not really obviously
summer kestrel
You N E E D it
uneven mason
So what metrics are you looking at to measure top 10% Astra?
stoic kite
I lose a ton of vers
chilly brook
No what’s sad is you sitting here and being like “prot is shit” when clearly it isn’t
stoic kite
theres no str on rings
chilly brook
Plenty of people actually doing Mythic prog with prot
summer kestrel
Otherwise your tanking is shit
uneven mason
If you're looking at DPS rankings
lusty grotto
yes really obviously look at the metric fuckton of haste it has @stoic kite
uneven mason
chances are
hazy nacelle
@summer kestrel okay so I'm stuck with thunderous crash?
chilly brook
The problem isn’t with the class it’s with the player behind the class
lucid bough
Only works iwth prot
valid gorge
While death statistics prove jack shit, I wouldn't say they are not valuable or relevant to this discussion?
summer kestrel
Ye
hazy nacelle
Damn
lucid bough
Just because you say shit in a sentence that doenst make it true bro
warm spear
Most disc priests are actually braindead doe
chilly brook
But you don’t see anyone complaining about disc because it became FOTM in pvp
knotty ermine
I didn't say they aren't valuable, but propping them up as definitive is window-licking stupid.
valid gorge
We agree on that, they are not something to base your whole argument on
chilly brook
Most of you probably don’t even know how to read statistics....
knotty ermine
People are literally using that single stat point as the entire basis and proof of their argument
valid gorge
but they are another piece of the puzzle that has already more than proven that prot warriors are pretty shit right now
:D
lusty grotto
@hazy nacelle read the guides and 
you want at most 1 DC
ember arrow
@stoic kite its a huge "obviously"
uneven mason
I mean, because of my personal experience playing protection
warm spear
Honestlybyou need a real high IQ to understand prot warriir statistics...
uneven mason
I can honestly say - we're not weak, or bad, but there are a lot of folks that just make a ton of mistakes
valid gorge
I see another argument on the other side
hazy nacelle
@lusty grotto I read that you want 1 DC, I was just wondering if 45 item levels meant I could dump it or not
valid gorge
stuff like "i can clear all content as prot warrior"
is really not that great either
chilly brook
Clearly my experience has been a huge massive farce and I don’t know what I’m talking about
🤔
valid gorge
if you can clear all the content with your ilvl 370 gear while the 340 monk does the same
there is something wrong bruh
lusty grotto
@hazy nacelle oh i see
warm spear
Lmao
lucid bough
its skill bro
amber siren
@hazy nacelle 45 ilvl is too steep to keep DC, drop it
warm spear
@valid gorge dropping dem truth bombs
mortal pike
Not seeing many 340 monks in mythic raids tbh
chilly brook
TFW Marok was doing Mythic without 370 😂
summer kestrel
Skill reduces my shield wall by 3 minutes
chilly brook
Oh and sense
mortal pike
They usually have the same gear I have or more
valid gorge
how many 370 prot warriors are you seeing in raids, Execute? ;)
chilly brook
^
mortal pike
368 atm so not yet
lucid bough
900 +/-
warm spear
I can clear all content and +15 on my prot warrior bro, its just common sense bro
valid gorge
drop in the bucket compared to everything else
warm spear
U just not as good as me
uneven mason
^
mortal pike
Not saying were fotm..
odd ridge
You're really adding to the conversation DAB
mortal pike
Just saying were not actually bad for Mythic
valid gorge
wonder how long it will take for the first prot warrior to kill mythic ghuun
summer kestrel
He is actually
valid gorge
D:
chilly brook
Who knows
valid gorge
nobody is saying you can't clear m+15's with perfect play and a perfect setup, btw
chilly brook
Actually you know what I’ll bend the knee
lusty grotto
i dont see any issue with it
chilly brook
Prot warrior is broken
lusty grotto
so shrug
warm spear
@lusty grotto just ask @knotty ermine for pointers on how not to suck bro
chilly brook
I mean look at how broken this is
knotty ermine
I'll gladly provide em.
chilly brook
Such uptime
lusty grotto
lol
lusty grotto
here we go
rain dune
Do it
chilly brook
About 75% Demo Shout
rain dune
Link em
vagrant cape
unzips log
summer kestrel
Your logs means jack shit
uneven mason
They don't know what DS is used for Griff
summer kestrel
We are talking about the class
summer kestrel
Not about you
chilly brook
My logs don’t mean anything 🤔
rain dune
"I can link my logs"
lusty grotto
lol
chilly brook
Someone who’s successfully downing bosses logs don’t mean anything guys
lusty grotto
errr...
chilly brook
Wut?
lusty grotto
reading comprehension @rain dune
summer kestrel
You are throwing an stuoid tantrum
chilly brook
Can you even read bro?
sour osprey
Wow shit storm in the prot channel, didn't expect that
warm spear
Lma
valid gorge
I sure hope to one day kill normal zekvoz as a prot warrior
too bad i can only dream
D:
mortal pike
same
summer kestrel
"Eh guys I can do something, hence everyone is wrong"
lucid bough
PROT WARRIOR IS ONLY FOR SKILL PLAYERSS
warm spear
IM THE MOST SKILLED PROT WARRIOR YALL JUST CASUAL LMAO
lusty grotto
@summer kestrel "hey guys prot is bad, hence everyone is wrong"
see what i did there?
summer kestrel
Who said is bad bro
lucid bough
you are saying that
mellow bridge
did you guys see the new /r/wow thread about prots?
2nd highest comment
"cant hold aggro bad class"
lmfao
odd ridge
Ok ok, prot warrior is shit, email blizz lets cancel the spec. See u guys in the BDK discord
uneven mason
😡 No we missed it
chilly brook
Anyways here you go @rain dune just for you
warm spear
Lmao
valid gorge
tbh the arguments as to why it is bad have been presented by numerous different people in numerous different ways
and I havn't seen them refuted yet
rain dune
❤
lusty grotto
yes we did, which is why the doomsayers are excited today
uneven mason
@odd ridge Paladin and DK discords scare me
knotty ermine
If you want to argue that it sucks or feelsbad that prot takes more skill to be as good as other tanks, or argue that it sucks or feels bad that prot is less forgiving than other tanks, I can actually support that argument (though I don't actually care). But to say prot just sucks, which is a claim that has been debunked in this channel numerous times, is a stupid claim to make.
summer kestrel
Prot is unrefutably weak
lucid bough
bro, not much comparison about people talking about a spec viability and not even put the feet on mythic rading
chilly brook
@valid gorge give me the points then
lucid bough
sorry
fathom marten
Was going to say there were multiple Heoric logs linked in the past here
summer kestrel
Unplayable? No
uneven mason
a lot of talking about slutmogs and how their Bloodelf ass looks in thongs
summer kestrel
Bad? No
lusty grotto
why are you backpedalling @summer kestrel
knotty ermine
@valid gorge Which arguments still haven't been refuted, because there have been 3, maybe 4 arguments made, and all 4 of them are refuted daily
chilly brook
@valid gorge I’m waiting
odd ridge
@uneven mason I'd imagine the pally discord is full of unicorn porn
chilly brook
Give me the points so I can refute them for you
uneven mason
Not kidding while BFA-Protection was talking about how to fix our shit in beta, paladins were arguing about what boots went best with their plate thongs
lusty grotto
rofl
odd ridge
Lmfao
mellow bridge
Understandable
knotty ermine
Please, I'm honestly asking, because I would love nothing more than to give a point-by-point takedown of the argument so that maybe it could be pinned and referred to every day that someone comes in here with the same nonsense.
mellow bridge
anyone got a nice slutmog for my female belf warrior? Kappa
cant find a fitting shield
odd ridge
I got what u need
final mist
Enough with the inane argument. Move on.
knotty ermine
Nothing beats their default thong, so you're downgrading by even wearing armor on a tauren male
mellow bridge
@odd ridge I'm excitedly waiting
final mist
And chill with the meme transmog off-topic bullshit.
summer kestrel
^
odd ridge
Pm me ill send u some ideas
warm spear
This is starting to sound like obe of thise alt-right debate channels
grim prism
I told em its not casual friday
kind ivy
@mortal pike Any plates set works, have you seen those beautiful Tauren Pecs?
final mist
$mute 157350609282924544 1d Trolling.
turbid robinBOT
Done.
final mist
Move on. Now.
lusty grotto
i... uh...
chilly brook
Whoever I was asking for something feel free to dm it to me I’ll be waiting
grim prism
Honestly its been so long since we've discussed anything other than how PrOt Is BaD that I'm not sure what to talk about otherwise
uneven mason
Well uh
grim prism
Has anyone here done freehold on teeming yet
kind ivy
So I actually have a gearing question (since raidbots doesn't support us yet) whats better a 330 ring with Ver over Mast or a 325 ring with haste over mastery?
topaz cove
Anyone think using Thunder Clap is for casuals?
kind ivy
or too close to worry bout
uneven mason
really close
weak zephyr
I think using ignore pain is overrated too
grim prism
My guess is the 330 @kind ivy, but too close to worry about
uneven mason
@kind ivy you won't be ableto sim for prot anyway
kind ivy
@grim prism K thx, I won't waste the chanting mats to rechant the new one then
uneven mason
but rings are 5~ ilvl if you're weighing haste vs crit
but vers/mast is probably worthwhile
grim prism
We dont have exact relative values for secondary stats, we just know that they are all closer in relative value than last expac
So stat budget is quite possibly the biggest factor
uneven mason
haste being in the lead by a solid amount, but not enough to trump item level in most cases
topaz cove
50 haste > 5 ilvl?
grim prism
We have literally zero scientific data to support that argument tbh
west kayak
I just got 375 Crit/Mast boots vs my current 360 Vers/Haste... I take it that the 375 will be better due to ilvl.
kind ivy
Man those GCDs and making Haste the god stat for so many classes
grim prism
@topaz cove absolutely not if its an armor piece, if its rings then /shrug
uneven mason
really if you feel you want a bit more SB uptime use the haste
grim prism
Prot is the feelycraft class until we have working sims
rain dune
What should I be looking for in my logs to know what I can improve upon for raiding? Now that I've got someone else's logs to compare to
uneven mason
sorry @grim prism they haven't fired me yet
so I haven't had the spare time to fix the sims
knotty ermine
Just got the same ring from my conq chest this week as I got last week. Will to live at an all-time low
lusty grotto
@rain dune block uptime, IP uptime
uneven mason
I mean I could work on them while procrastinating at work
lusty grotto
block being SB and Bolster LS
grim prism
@rain dune demo shout uptime (debuff on enemies) above 60%, blocked melees more than 50% for sure, idk whats normal now but when HR was a thing it was more like 90% lol
lusty grotto
uptime on melee hits
kind ivy
LoL @knotty ermine , I just got another Big Red Button
lusty grotto
i should clarify
uneven mason
but then I'd miss all the witty "pRoTT sUKzz" banter
lusty grotto
right Demo shout uptime
grim prism
Raw block and IP uptime are meaningless tbh
uneven mason
Well
grim prism
If youre blocking at the wrong time its wasted
grim prism
Properly-used IP is going to get nuked off well before it expires
kind ivy
I usually use IP to not cap our rage at certain points
knotty ermine
385 azerite helm though, holla
lusty grotto
right
uneven mason
as long as you're NOT capping, AM is not affected (You don't lose throughput on AM until you have 101 rage)
grim prism
Dont ever get to 100 ragr
knotty ermine
J/K, reinforced plating 😦 🔫
uneven mason
frigging phone
rain dune
I definitely panic smack SB during LS sometimes, gotta work on that.
uneven mason
morrig I reccomend Marok's block tracker
rain dune
WA?
knotty ermine
@rain dune you use WAs? I made one that yells at me for being an idiot
kind ivy
Psh who doesn't need 200% blocked hits
grim prism
Same
rain dune
I use them but I suck at making them.
knotty ermine
broke the habit pretty quickly
knotty ermine
I'll PM it to you later
rain dune
That'd be awesome, ty.
Ignore Taloc and Mother
They have me running into bubbles and going across to tank the spawns :/
If anyone wants to tear me apart anyways because we're not complaining about prot atm
But I definitely have room for improvement
delicate prism
I got the trinket from the worldboss and it's on-use crit for me.
knotty ermine
Wait a minute... that helm may not be trash tier after all
topaz fable
As a person that has played Prot since it’s rework in classic, I don’t think Prot has ever been in a worse spot in its history. This idea that Prot is just fine right now is just wrong.
wanton sentinel
Pins don't mention it:
- 355 Rezan's Eye (236 str, +643 haste for 15s proc, +40 haste socketed)
- 375 Disc of Systematic Regression (285 str, 7.5k damage proc)
- 360 Lingering Sporepods (247 str, healing proc w/ damage proc)
Rezan's (haste) and Disc seem the best combo
wanton sentinel
The Sporepod proc is hard to evaluate, and +11 str isn't enough to persuade me
True, I have that too. Didn't get the World Boss trinket.
Thanks.
steel mauve
Spore is garbage
rain dune
Would a 340 howler with a socket (haste) or a 370 syringe from vectis be better with a blockades?
steel mauve
Any thing even close to its ilvl wins easily
stoic kite
What do you guys think of the Vers tranket from G'huun
valid gorge
gut says syringe
stoic kite
I got one last night at 355
garbage Im guessing unlesss the sservant is giving us buffss
grim prism
Syringe is better in M+ for sure @rain dune
Howler might be marginally better as a cooldown on boss mechanica
rain dune
That's what I've been bouncing between.
grim prism
But youre also losing 30 ilvl of strength (aka armor)
So i'd prob just run the 370 anyway
rain dune
Awesome. That always feels good.
And just keep running those Tol Dagors with my fingers crossed
mortal pike
Which world boss is up in NA?
fierce juniper
Hasn't spawned yet
grim prism
Oh the suspense
rain dune
fingers crossed for the ice boss with the DC trait shoulders?
cloud bone
frosty wedge
man, limit has wiped sub 10% three times in the last 5 pulls
err, method
no idea on limit
uneven mason
Limit isn't EU RIP taking 3 weeks of vacation twice a year for a video game
Americans are insane workaholics compared to the rest of the modern world
frosty wedge
true
vocal nimbus
archive buff is live?
frosty wedge
in NA, as is vantus rune nerf
knotty ermine
Hmm... Haste over Vers 365, or crit over mastery w/socket ring? Losing all that haste is throwing me off, even with the socket
chilly brook
This game sucks
385 chest piece from cache with bloodsport
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEee
upbeat folio
These affixes are not the fun that I was anticipating. Tol'dagor is a nightmare with these tight spaces.
knotty ermine
Mine has reinforced plating
knotty ermine
@chilly brook hug it out?
upbeat folio
@chilly brook I got reinforced plating on my 385 shoulders. It hurt so bad.
frosty wedge
bloodsport's not bad for magic fights!
grim prism
Just try again next week! Isn't this new gear advancement paradigm so fun??
You know, Blizzard bases all their gameplay decisions on the concrete metric of "Player Fun". They said so in the Q&A
frosty wedge
Imiss justice points
arctic pelican
If im 352 in my tank set, how high m+ can i comfortably tank?
chilly brook
I mean tbf Bloodsport isn't really all that bad
grim prism
Maybe you should have more fun with your shit shoulders and something useful will drop next week!
@arctic pelican +8s
chilly brook
But BFI or IF would have been better
arctic pelican
Oh nice. I am arms main spec. But have a nicr tank set. Ill try it out ig
grim prism
Make sure youre following the talent build in the guide
arctic pelican
Ive tanked enough to be competent.
arctic pelican
I SAID COMPETENT... not exceptional hehe
grim prism
Prot wars abhor competence
upbeat folio
Competency cannot save you, sir.
jade tartan
@chilly brook IP buff incoming - Bloodsport goes up in value :p
upbeat folio
You need to be a fucking all star right now.
grim prism
Just demo and make it clap clap clap clap
upbeat folio
we need a booty clap GIF imo.
grim prism
I listen to twerk music when I crush pluses
chilly brook
@jade tartan show me the money
grim prism
Its the only way
jade tartan
we need to wait tho 😄
grim prism
If you miss timer it just means youre not ratchet enough
chilly brook
jovial reef
how long until the stream?
grim prism
sick orphan line bro
jovial reef
i want to see them talk about allied races and ignore prot warriors
grim prism
do you even meme
ember arrow
grim prism
PVP PROT WAR LMAO
frosty wedge
LOL
ember arrow
Exactly @grim prism
uneven mason
@chilly brook Bloodsport is actually REALLY strong vs Vect and Zul
frosty wedge
Hey man, no one wants to take us to groups, gotta find soemthing to do :p lol
jovial reef
^
chilly brook
I'd love to have them show us something on zandalari being playable finally
grim prism
I'm just so dumbfounded with this goddamn Agile Development game that I can't tell what's memes anymore @ember arrow
jovial reef
they likely will
they have to put all their hype into allied races and hope that the sheep swallow it
while the game is dying
ember arrow
@grim prism cant blame ya
jovial reef
with the state of BFA
chilly brook
@uneven mason like I said it's not actually really all that bad of a trait
jovial reef
since 2011
ember arrow
Zzzzzz
jade tartan
I'm actually curious about the stream tho
chilly brook
Just means I'm flippin stuck with a 340 helmet that I'm not replacing anytime soon since Uldir doesn't have DC
chilly brook
I'm not pissed either
uneven mason
That's only because
chilly brook
Just disappointed
rain dune
@chilly brook World boss mate, frost one can drop the shoulders.
uneven mason
you're obsessed with DS uptime
you could totally net a 370 helm offa mother and replace that DC
upbeat folio
chilly brook
So you're telling me I need to bonus roll on the world boss this week
jade tartan
yea, I think that.. regarding class tuning, we're feeling fine because we can only expect something "good/better"? :p
frosty wedge
I got a 370 helm from my weekly last week that gave me DC 😄
uneven mason
I think bonus rolling on WB is a trap
jade tartan
Only DC can be changed ;o
uneven mason
its like
chilly brook
I mean I think we're feeling "fine" because we can do all content as long as you're not a monkey
uneven mason
Phabyum I expect them to nerf DC, and adjust the k value of the next tier upwards
knotty ermine
Why would you even bother? PVP prot warrior is actually really fun lol. No clue on how competitive it is, running with BM and MW has been some of the most fun I've had in 3s
grim prism
Griff actually has some pretty solid gameplay tips between his seven-times-a-day dickflexing screencaps