#protection | Skyhold | Page 2101

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:01 PM

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Right now? @junior igloo buy blizz balance. You get far more value out of your gold right now by converting.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:01 PM

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^

bronze lance Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM

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So I have 3mil gold. Should I buy all the tokens I can and then when the price of the tokens go back up trade them back in for gold?

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM

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You cant state it as being a fact just because it isnt worth it to you, thats an opinion, and doesnt speak for every person in existence, and a lot of factors change it, me, i dont spend gold on any thing, i have cooking, im an alch, so the only thing i spend gold on is enchants, and 6k is easy for a new ring that i got at raid ilvl

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You cant sell a token you bought with gold

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM

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You could, but I use it for paying my wow sub in the meantime.

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No, but I can take the sale data as fact

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:03 PM

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TBH if you’d like to spend your gold like that go for it

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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It automatically goes into your account balance as 15$ and to rebuy a token is 20$

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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And by and large, the cheaper enchants sell at a far, far, FAR higher quantity than the expensive ones

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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I’m not going to tell you that you can’t

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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Which means, by and large, they are far more worth their cost than the expensive ones

bronze lance Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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I bought two for the first time the other day. So when zandalar come out I can change my shaman or warrior

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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As if blizz balance is only good to buy tokens

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🤔

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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and based on that, you can make a plain statement that they aren't worth their cost.

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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He was asking if he should buy tokens to RESELL, which wouldnt be possible with out a loss of money

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:04 PM

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You can expand that statement, if you want, and say they aren't worth the cost versus the alternative

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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Loss of money? No

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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tokens would have to rise in price by over 33% for it to be worth it

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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You never paid any money to begin with

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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which is doable, but it's a large bump

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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Gold is still money

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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Assuming you’re using gold to get tokens

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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Its a loss either way to resell

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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🤔

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:05 PM

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just because you didnt cash out doesnt mean you didnt lose out

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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Buy it with gold and resell you would need to buy 4 worth to sell 3 of em

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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If you already have your wow sub covered for the forseeable future, have no desire to use any services, buy anything off the store, or buy any other games or any other item that can be bought with blizzard balance

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then sure

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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And if 3 were worth 600k as opposed to the 400k you spent......

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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may not be worth

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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Oh hey

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You made gold!

real rover Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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Does ablative shielding stack?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:06 PM

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you've assumed that their price doubled in that scenario

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:07 PM

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But if I actually have to explain why gold is more valuable as blizz balance right now than it has been in nearly 3 years, not sure why we should even discuss it

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:07 PM

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I mean they’ve over halved since BFA dropped....

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It’s not outlandish to think they’d double

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:07 PM

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Theyve only been dropping since the expansion launched, would you wait 6 months in the hopes of maybe making a very small amount of gold

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:07 PM

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Either way it’s not a bad idea to put gold into blizz balance

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:08 PM

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On NA theyve only been dropping

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Down to almost 100k

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:08 PM

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sure, but now you've sequestered 400k gold for an unseen amount of time in hopes it goes up enough where you likely could just make more via the AH in the same amount of time with less risk

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:08 PM

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110k or some rhing the other day

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Was about 190k when bfa launched

bronze lance Sep 17, 2018, 5:08 PM

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105k right now

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:08 PM

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I mean when you can sell +10s for 100s of thousands of gold.....

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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for now*

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while it's difficult

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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Clearly

steel mauve Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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So theyve dropped 85k since bfa launched

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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but i agree, selling runs is a very easy way to make gold

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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Blizzard is bleeding off gold from the economy at a time when people are buying tokens hand over fist. The market conditions are perfect for the value on token to drop. There are also signs (already) that prices are beginning to rebound, and while they may never reach 240k again like they were in legion, there is still a reasonable and simple argument you can make that right now, in-game gold is worth more as blizzard balance than it has been, and it won't remain that way forever.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:09 PM

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Idk why the “for now” was relevant

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It’s kind of implied

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And if you have the ability to do it and put gold into blizz balance if you intend to use their services or buy their games in the future you’d be negligent if you didn’t do it right now

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:10 PM

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provided you make gold / blizz balance at a faster rate than you do from a job. since time spent farming gold is time spent i could be doing something else

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:10 PM

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When it’s literally at the cheapest it’s ever been to do so

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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As soon as people slow or stop buying tokens (like they already are, thus prices creeping back up), the price will go back up. Once Blizz puts in another way like mission tables to make gold like they did in Legion (they may not), or a blood vendor like they have the last 2 expansions (they already said they are), the value of the token, in gold, will go back up.

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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I originally thought token prices would recover and get much closer to the 200K they were for most of legion (doubtful the 220+ they peaked at)

However, since then I have reevaluated that opinion. The missions granting stupid amounts of gold are gone. That was a major factor for server / region wide gold income. There simply isn't a way with as plentiful of gold income as we used to have.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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Economics is hard

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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Let’s assume minimum wage of California

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2 hours=~100k gold

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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I wouldn't be surprised if they capped at 150k

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:11 PM

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If I were a betting man, I say they hit about 150

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yea

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So, with the knowledge that they are already rebounding, and the assumption that they cap at 150 (regardless of where they cap, really), my point still stands

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:12 PM

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A 40 minute run in game=~75k

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Sounds like spending time in game is an overall better option

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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that you are highly unlikely to get more value, in blizzard balance, out of your gold, than you will today.

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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if you only make 10 per hour

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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It’s literally just a low end estimate

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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yeah most players dont make 75k in 40 minutes

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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I was selling M15 carries in legion for whatever the price of a token is. When I get to that again I think I'll do the same. May not be worth it considering herbalism is just stupid money for now.

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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and you're assuming 100% uptime in your sales runs

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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¯_(ツ)_/¯

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:13 PM

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only way to manage that is to have people advertise for you, and you're assuming 300k per run

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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300k a run isn’t outlandish

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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for now, but in a couple wks it will be

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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at 200K for a token I was making 37.5 per run

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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“Couple weeks”

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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Gets a bit harder when you can only advertise sale runs on your own server

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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Again implied that we’re talking about now.....

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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How do you expect to sell them for 300K when they were going for the price of a token

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:14 PM

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because selling a 10 right now is difficult

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:15 PM

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Literally all of this is coming from a simple statement that "You get more value out of exchanging your gold for blizzard balance right now"

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:15 PM

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Apparently implied statements are hard to comprehend

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:15 PM

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Slow day in the office for people that aren't just me I guess

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😛

dawn kettle Sep 17, 2018, 5:16 PM

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Ahh I wish the stalwart weapon enchant was good for us! the icyveins guide recommends the haste one, what do you think?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:16 PM

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Do you go to your boss and be act like you don’t get the implied tasks of whatever he told you to do?

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I’m fine with using haste

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:16 PM

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you sound like a broker trying to get commission, buy now, the market is low

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:16 PM

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Because it’s true?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:17 PM

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but it's a statement that can't be proved, the market could drop further tomorrow

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it could also equally go way up

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:17 PM

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Ok, I'll bite

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:17 PM

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it's certainly better than it was in legion

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obviously

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:17 PM

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What information, at all, exists to make you think the market could drop further

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You know what drops the market, right? The one and ONLY thing that controls the value on tokens

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:17 PM

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my only point is that it can

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:18 PM

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is the number of people that are buying them

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that's it

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literally the only thing

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:18 PM

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If you want to buy and get a balance to buy later the price will have to go up substantially for it to be worth it.

Right now tokens are what, 110K? For that to be a worthwhile investment they would have to go over 146,666.7K to make something. I don't think they will go far over that so its not worth it imo.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:18 PM

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So you're saying, based on all the information available

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it is somehow possible, and even remotely likely

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that MORE people will be buying tokens tomorrow than today.

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That's your argument

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Versus my argument, that spelled out all the reasons why, and all the signs pointing towards a rebound that is already happening

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:19 PM

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is your purpose purely blizzard balance or as a means to make gold?

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:19 PM

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and using the mere existence of a possibility to counter my statement

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:19 PM

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Do the legion tables still generate a bunch of gold?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:19 PM

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nope

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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I mean 5 weeks after launch it seems to have steadied around 110k

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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My statement and purpose are based on VALUE of GOLD. I thought this was pretty simple and spelled out.

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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Mine Krotos? I just saw someone said they were buying now to resell later

summer sequoia Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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anyone know a good prot warr that streams m+ runs?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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Sense

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snse on twitch

midnight pond Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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sowa_clique

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xD

summer sequoia Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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😃

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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I am curious if they are gonna add in more gold sources

summer sequoia Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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thank you

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:20 PM

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I SERIOUSLY doubt that in 3 weeks time more people than the ones that bought tokens at the beginning of the xpac will be buying

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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Seems like the market is still based around everyone having big reserves from legion

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Like 3-5k flasks

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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The next major possible buying market will be 8.1

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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i was referring to as a means to make gold, which means the price has to go up by 33% to merely break even

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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The market is literally only based around how many people are buying tokens.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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Until 8.1 token sales will most likely drop

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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at the cost of no available gold to make money with via other means

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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No other thing influences the price of tokens

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Nothing

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Zero

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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I've made about 800K profit since launch. After buying 3 Black market containers, 2 decks early on, and a bunch of other things.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:21 PM

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Zilch

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Nada

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:22 PM

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@exotic spoke that is mainly gold exchanging between players

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:22 PM

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Exactly Krotos, which is why I was cautioning against it. If they go up they wont reach legion levels again in my opinion.

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:22 PM

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It doesn’t change the flow of gold in to the economy

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Which has slowed to a trickle

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:22 PM

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Oh absolutely sadbox. People just need to be smart about making gold instead of blowing them on stupid things

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People were blowing money to level crafting / get ready for raids. I got my stuff ready by farming and just start selling mats.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:23 PM

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If prices don’t go up you still have tons of blizz balance that you can use to pay for sub, in game services, other games....

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:23 PM

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There is no AH cut taken from token sales, and all token sales go to an actual human with an active wow account selling tokens. Tokens do not bleed off money from the economy, at all

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by their very nature

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:24 PM

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@knotty ermine We meant they bleed off money if you buy 4 tokens to add to BNet balance you can only buy 3 of them to sell back for gold later.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:24 PM

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That doesn't bleed off money from the economy though

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Only from YOUR balance

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:24 PM

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That’s still assuming it’s the only thing blizz balance is worth

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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True, I was merely cautioning against doing that.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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I’d rather “lose” in game currency than real life currency

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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@chilly brook that tons if balance isnt worth it (from a time/$ perspective) to anyone who makes even minimum wage unless they're able to chain run 10s right now

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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If I buy 4 tokens right now for 100k, I just sent 400k to some other person, and I got $80 in blizz balance.

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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unless of course you just get enjoyment of of the runs, then do what you please

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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No money was removed from the economy

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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I can work 1 hour extra and make enough, after taxes, to pay for 3 months of game time. That's a better investment to me

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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time is far more valuable currency than cash

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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If I then redeem that balance later, even for 1 token and get 100k back

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still

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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I mean you’re saying 10s aren’t worth doing at all anyways?

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:25 PM

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No gold was lost from the economy

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How is this a difficult concept?

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I took a personal loss

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THat's it.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:26 PM

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If you even wanna consider it a loss

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:26 PM

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The point I was saying is, in another way

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:27 PM

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Again say you spent 400k and come out with 450k you don’t take a loss

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:27 PM

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"you are least likely to take a loss right now than at any point in the wow token's history, by using your gold to buy blizz balance"

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:27 PM

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Carnivale is correct. It is a personal loss not a systemic loss

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Griff that is not likely to happen

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:27 PM

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What isn’t likely to happen?

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That tokens go up?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:28 PM

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you're saying buy 4 at 100 sell 3 at 150, (simple numbers)

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:28 PM

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Buying 4 tokens for 100K right now and then later being able to sell 3 of them for a profit of 50K

stray wedge Sep 17, 2018, 5:28 PM

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I think this discussion is more suitable for #general :P

rain dune Sep 17, 2018, 5:28 PM

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Seriously what does this have to do with warriors.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:29 PM

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What if we're trying to figure out how to make gold so we can bribe people in LFG to accept warrior tank apps @stray wedge

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:29 PM

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On that note... I love being declined from M+ groups, that I out gear, because I'm a prot warrior

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:29 PM

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😉

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 5:29 PM

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It's ok Riki, we can hang out with spriests and ele shaman

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:29 PM

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Even in guild, I feel like I'm a liability in higher keys / certain dungeons. Unblockable damage makes me sad.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:30 PM

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That's when you go full American Idol audtition @exotic spoke , blow up their whispers with "you haven't heard the last of me, you don't know nothin, I'm better than any one of these other people" etc

rain dune Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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If you're guild won't run with you either get better or find a different guild.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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I mean define unblockable damage

plain vapor Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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whenever i log on i always get whispered to do keys lol

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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Like physical or magical

plain vapor Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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its great

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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lol. I get my 10 done each week but dear god is it painful.

Morrig, its not that my guild won't run with me, its that I feel like a liability with them. That's all

rain dune Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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You just gotta get more comfortable then 😄

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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Literally, anything I can't Block. Bleeds / shots etc.

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 5:31 PM

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most unblockable damage is also threatening to other tanks

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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^

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That was going to be my point

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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Riki - I think you hit the nail on the head man; prot doesn't suck at all; just at times, no matter how good I play; sometimes I feel helpless.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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@exotic spoke serious question, who is the healer from your guild you generally run with? Not to sound like a cop out (but it kinda is) if your healer is a druid, you're gonna have a real bad time. Warr/Resto just mesh, well, terribly right now in m+

Could be an issue of group comp more than anything is my point.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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Well if you play a BrM you get the same feeling 😜

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Completely at the mercy of your healer

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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I haven't played any other ones; only Prot warrior this expat

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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I've done them. I've completed everything I started. Its just I feel like I'm holding the group back is all and the healer has to hold my hand the whole time.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:32 PM

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You could* have a real bad time. I know how some people like to pick apart semantics in statements here 😉

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:33 PM

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Well that is the point of prot warrior is reliance on the healer

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And pretty much every tank other than DK or DH to a certain extent

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 5:33 PM

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warriors should be easy to heal if you are playing properly, but you do require healing to keep alive

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:33 PM

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Oh I get it, and some of the issue is dps in the group missing kicks / not having enough dps to get it down fast enough etc.

Still doesn't mean it feels nice,

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:34 PM

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Yeah. Success, failure, and everything inbetween those two is entirely dependent on the derp factor that exists in your group

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:35 PM

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brb -gotta grab lunch at work. I'm comfortable with playing a warrior. Done it since vanilla as the only class I've played.

I dunno, it just feels off in M+. In heroic Uldir I feel fine. Haven't had issues there at all honestly.

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:35 PM

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so are there no sights for prot anymore that are worth looking at

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:35 PM

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It’s kinda like Spotify’s recommendations for@music

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Sometimes it’s hit

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Sometimes it’s a very big miss

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:35 PM

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Proper timing of cd usage (both personal and what the group is doing) and also the group not taking unnecessary damage, which is a global your healer is spending on them instead of you, and also just you not taking unnecessary damage can all swing the run pretty far into "smooth as butter" or "Literally the holocaust" territory

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:36 PM

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Yea for the most part avoidable damage being taken is unacceptable

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:37 PM

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Effective use of CDs will carry you very far, same goes for your whole group.

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When all else fails though, just make sure you have a hunter in the group that you can blame shit on

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Run going to shit? Heroic throw a nearby pack and say it was the hunter's pet that ran over

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/lifehack

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 5:42 PM

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Except addoms can see that it was u

shut aspen Sep 17, 2018, 5:43 PM

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In my guild raid, healers were bitching at the RL to change me to dps cause my health was fluctuating too much.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:43 PM

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Assumes pugs are using addons that aren't raider.io

strong hill Sep 17, 2018, 5:43 PM

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@knotty ermine turn the mobs around and let the hunter move his position And walk right into a pack

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:44 PM

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lol

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:44 PM

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@shut aspen got some logs?

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:44 PM

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I wont have an issue in raids. It helps when I'm the raid leader. That said, if I feel like my ability / my class is holding us back as we start mythic I will swap because that's who I am. I don't want to be the reason we fail.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:45 PM

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Sounds like an effective use of cds issue. The issues surrounding prot warriors have been massively overstated, imo

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they aren't "fine," but they aren't trashcans either, or anywhere close to it.

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:45 PM

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Oh, I have no issue in raids carnivale. I just rotate through my CDs - using Last stand to fill in shield block, etc.

I agree completely too

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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I mean I think we’re fine

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Do we have problems? Sure

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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My perception of the issue is that healers are used to healing other tanks and healing warriors is different / require different interactions.

cinder bridge Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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what ya'lls totals in m+ typically?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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Do they prevent us from completing content? Not in the slightest

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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I got a bit of guff in my guild for being protwar...

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at first

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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they are jsut not nearly as optimal or as good as other tanks that are out there right now

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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Well, that's kind of what I'm saying. Fine to me means "without any issues, regardless of severity"

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:46 PM

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Until the logs came rolling in

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

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but if you know how to play your class you can make it work

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

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Where you show you're taking less damage

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

and I could be like "see that paladin who mitigates 58%? Ok, now see me mitigating 74%?, yes ok, so who's better?"

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

it is just frustrating that we are so much worse than other tanks. yes we can be used jsut not as optimally for progression

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

we aren't though

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

that is a bad paladin

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

we're not worse than any other tank?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

@shut aspen if you have logs I can see if I can’t offer some help in smoothing the damage etc.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

That's what is being said

#

We aren't "so much worse"

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

In many situations we're literally THE BEST tank

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

Overall all the tanks are extremely similar in damage profile

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

We're not as FORGIVING

#

If you're bad as a warrior

#

you're going to die

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

Poorly played warriors are definitely "so much worse" than poorly played [insert any other tank here]

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

Yup, Ikarikaze. I agree with that.

plush summit Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

In my limited experience tanking Normal Dungeons in BFA, a Moderate/Casual Prot Warrior needs to be paired with a Strong/Advanced Healer to be an effective group, whereas a Moderate/Casual tank of any other class can be paired with a moderate/casual healer of any healer class.

shut aspen Sep 17, 2018, 5:48 PM

#

@chilly brook preciate the help but I currently don't just cuz im busy with school and havent got around to it

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

Every other tanking spec you c an literally slap your face into your keyboard and play at 60% efficiency

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

Well logging doesn’t require any extra effort

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

But well played warriors are not far off from well played anything

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

Next time you’re in raid log it

#

If you need help setting it up let me know

#

It’s basically two clicks and you’ve logged

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

i mean we can make do but a good blood dk is gonna be better than a good prot war

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

I mean it really comes down to - if you feel warriors are bad for tanking, its probably just you.

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

a good pally is gonna be better than a good prot war

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

But they're not?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

In what?

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

an ok monk is gonna be better than a good prot war

plush summit Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

To put it succinctly - Prot Warriors can't compensate for the quality of healer they are paired with as much as the other tank classes.

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

Example plz

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

BDK takes a solid 40% more damage than us?

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

but heals way way more

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

Paladins take 18%~ more on avg

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

they make up for it with their healing

#

you have to account for that

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

Right, they're almsot spot on

#

with their self healing

#

So what you're saying is we have to account for their self helaing, but lets ignore our much much higher mitigation?

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:51 PM

#

@sage cairn example plz, to back up warriors being "so much worse" than the two tanks you listed.

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:51 PM

#

Ikarikaze - I don't think we're bad. My frustration comes primarily from the interaction with healers on magic damage mostly.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:53 PM

#

@sage cairn I’m gonna show you something

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:53 PM

#

yeah that is our weakness, kind've, I mean, IP is a solid mitigation tool vs magic damage

#

we also have SR

#

and DS

#

and SW

#

which folks kind've forget

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

📎 image0.png

#

📎 image0.png

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

like its "bad" to stack these versus some stuff like say...Zul's bleed

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

Yup, its more of a fight by fight basis. And some of it is entirely the group

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

That’s damage taken and healing respectively

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

well not SR

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

Now let me show you a much more balanced fight

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

But I'm lower on damage taken, and EHRPS than the VDH, BDK, BrM and Pal that I've run with

#

so I'm going to go with - if you think prot warriors are bad

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

@sage cairn

📎 image0.png 📎 image1.png

bronze lance Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

Yea but with a pally or monk you have so much more they can do. Bop lay on hands. Ring of peace.

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

It might just be you.

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

Yes, we take less damage than other tanks.
They can heal to make up for the difference and the resulting healing required from healers is about the same.
The problem is that we are much more likely to die because of low EHP.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

Like I said

#

It’s literally a wash

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

Low raw health is our weakness (bleeds and magic)

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

I'm lower in damage for raids - I have no issue in raids. I'm just struggling sometimes in raids.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

We’re not “worse” than other tanks

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

^^

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

sorry struggling sometimes in M+

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

You find what your comfort zone is in M+

#

and kite when needed

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

@exotic spoke From talking to healers, it seems like this is true of a lot of tanks

#

Sometimes I feel squishy, but I never see the other tanks get crushed

pale garnet Sep 17, 2018, 5:57 PM

#

I’ve had issues with magic too should I be spending more rage on IP for spell damage

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:57 PM

#

Use CDs on magic

#

Be liberal with your CD usage

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:57 PM

#

In raids I've had no problems at all. Cycling defensives / calling out when I need 1 to fill in a gap. I've taken significantly less damage than the Brewmaster I tank with

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 5:57 PM

#

Well you sure shouldnt be spending it on revenge if you are worried about damage intake

#

And thats the only other way to spend it lol

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

Struggling in m+ could be attributed to a number of things. First is your own play. Maximizing effective CD usage versus overall cd uptime, etc. Then make sure your group is actually executing mechanics properly, because usually... they don't. Also need to be sure you're communicating with your healer, so that your CDs don't overlap his externals unintentionally, because there are times you'll need or want to rotate them

green aspen Sep 17, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

+15 AS A PROT WARRIOR WHO SAID WE ARE BAD!

📎 Screenshot_5.png

pale garnet Sep 17, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

If I had 80 rage should I blow it all on IP if only takin magic damage

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

I mean you don’t need to use it all at once

#

Pop IP

#

Do other things

#

Once it’s about to fall off, is gone or you’re about to cap spend rage

limber perch Sep 17, 2018, 5:58 PM

#

how to be a burden in m+ by blackdroppa

green aspen Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

lol

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

Carnivale - Yup, I've been rotating my CDs. I'll log next time I do one. I'm just not sure if its me, the healers, the group.

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

@exotic spoke
Monks have a passive that heals them for 65 % extra and they never take burst damage.
Sure, you will take less damage overall, but it's easier to heal up the monk.

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

@green aspen is tgat you?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

@green aspen just missed the front page of the leaderboards triggered

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

@junior igloo I understand that. I'm saying I have no issue tanking in raids.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 5:59 PM

#

Well never is a bit misleading

#

Monks can still get chunked

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:00 PM

#

Dk can but thats how they work

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:00 PM

#

Like, a simple but anecdotal example is also how you handle certain trash packs. On fortified, you will get absolutely curb stomped in A'D, even with proper cd usage, if you are standing there facetanking the big adds leading up to Vokal and they are just rolling up those massive bleeds on you. (again, just an example, but sometimes you may think you're doing it right when actually you aren't)

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:00 PM

#

Just far less often

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:00 PM

#

So idk if u can call it chunking

#

@knotty ermine ur in melee range of forti mobs

#

Mistake 1

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:00 PM

#

I agree with sad box

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

thats what I'm getting at m8

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

From playing a monk for 4 years they get chunked

#

Just far less often than other tanks

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

Its not dependi g on tank

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

And what chunks them will usually be a one shot for others

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

@green aspen FH15 is a +12 anything else don't @ me

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:01 PM

#

That is the largest difference between warriors and other tanks *shrug

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

https://gyazo.com/42155c98a4bafdb79bad9114c636a5f2

Gyazo

▶ Play video

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

you can be a flipperhanded chimp and survive as a monk

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

Not sped up btw

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

Oh I know

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

our BRM cast purifying brew once on our heroic fetid kill

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

@knotty ermine that run-on sentence made it sound like you were suggesting that you will just get steamrolled in AD regardless of what you do lol

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

also if you look at topo 100 m+ tanks

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

But they also never purified 😂 @ember arrow

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

there are like 2 warriors

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

yeah sorry in a training session atm

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:02 PM

#

Fetid was nerfed by a huge amount after the first week peno

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

this was last week

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

swapping back and forth between thoughts

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

@vivid sage you raid with sco?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

:omegalul:

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

imdastudd that has more to do with public perception and skill ceiling though

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

i tank the boss he takes thrashees

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

Here’s the thing with prot warrior

#

High skill floor

#

High skill ceiling

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

so he should be purifying after every thrash

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:03 PM

#

yes

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

Mediocre reward

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

@sage cairn Can be a mix of "warriors are harder to play, so statistically you will see less at the top" and "BDK and VDH have been at the top for legion, so there's less people who decided on prot for BFA"

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

I mean define mediocre

#

I don’t find playing prot to be mediocre at all

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

In legion i took less dmg than a dps

#

5th in m+

#

20th in raids

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

prot warriors don't have the utility that VDH or BDK or even BRM

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

Tfw it’s not legion

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

Playing optimally on a prot warrior makes you more than equal to any other tank, playing poorly on a prot warrior makes you a fucking carpet stain

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

Thats reward

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

legion

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:04 PM

#

Utility is fine.
We just die

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

“Utility”

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

🤔 maybe its you Meiffert

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

grip, sigils and ring of peace

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

You aren't "more than equal" to other tanks, that's just bs

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

@chilly brook whats the problem. Im illustrating wjat rewarding is and why its mediocre now

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

Rewarding according to your opinion

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

Warriors have very little in their toolkit or class design that makes up for poor gameplay

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

well no Griff

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:05 PM

#

It is just frustrating because other tanks have just as high a ceiling if not higher and are way more forgiving

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

what he means is that if you played a prot warrior optimally in Legion

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

Whereas I find taking less damage than other tanks and doing a crap ton of damage satisfying and rewarding

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

Other tanks have their bandaids to shit gameplay built into their spec

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

@uneven mason again we’re not in legion anymore

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

you literally took less damage than folks who were just eating the general AE - Rewarding optimal play with least damage taken

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

shitty player playing a warrior will always get rekt. Shitty player on a DK will farm 6-7s

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

Now, while you might find the gameplay rewarding in a "this is fun" sense. We are NOT rewarded for optimal play any more than a tanking spec

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:06 PM

#

in leigon id heal more than healers and do as much damage as low dps and not die

#

so it is a huge difference now

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

Tanks shouldn't be healing as much as healer / doing as much damage as a dps

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

Optimal play on Warriors in BFA brings us to the "par" we are as good/better in some situations

#

weaker in others

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

Which is fine

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

but it does require an insane amount of focus to maintain that

#

Well, its fine only so long as you're comparing averages

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/385129540974018571/491073347787030538/unknown.png

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

Anyone know if big red button scales with avatar and demo shoutor should i just macro it into something to use on c

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

We don’t need to be #1 just because we have to play well

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

No Morg

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:07 PM

#

@exotic spoke did someone say healing

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

Levko, I said tanks shouldn't

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

Trinkets no longer scale with that stuff

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

we have you jsut said it though you have to have insane focus and great gameplay to be on par with other tanks

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

Thats dude

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

No need to be snarky with pics like that

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

Another part of the problem, in addition to tuning and comminity perception, is that prot is "pretty good" at a lot of things but not exceptional at anything

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

@ember arrow that's just how the class is designed

#

they're taking significantly more damage than that that requires them to still bee healed

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

levko always links his details, you learn to ignore it

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

unless i'm being trolled

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

if you have a player who is playing a paladin DK or brM at the same level we HAVE to play warrior (note they don't HAVE TO) they will be easier to heal, and overall have much higher potential to survive stupid shit (like healers getting stunned/ded)

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

I’d say we’re exceptional at dealing with physical damage 🤔

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

Sure we excel at mitigating melee damage, but that it offset by other tanks healing through the same damage

#

Hey look, the exact counterpoint i was already typing

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

Which is still a wash

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

tfw clairvoyant

#

int tank OP

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

that is my issue with prot @uneven mason

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

Right, well, you worded it like shit

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

What are you guys expecting all the tanks are VERY similar

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

that i will give you lol

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

Saying "Why are we so much worse than other tanks"

plush summit Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

I'm guessing 8.1 patch notes will have something for Prot Warriors, and we'll see the PTR patch notes today or early tomorrow.

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

is not the issue

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

I doubt it @plush summit

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

no all the tanks are very similar and prot is the only one you have to be very good at to be similar

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

Its the fact of "why do we NEED to play at such a high level for no additional reward"

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

We spent half of last expac in an exceptionally shitty place with no communication whatsoever

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

if anything our aoe dps will be getting nerfed because it is insnae

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

Ok so are you expecting prot to be leagues ahead @sage cairn

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

insane*

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

Lul

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

imdastudd that is the point of prot warriors tho

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

no im expecting it to be on par

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

they're comfortable with our DPS in AE

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

Tfw burst aoe doesn’t reflect sustained aoe

uncut fractal Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

any tips to get into +10 pugs, looks like everyone avoids prot warriors

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

because we can't cheese a massive pull and survive

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Make your own group Rhastalord

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Rhastalord - get your own key?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Expecting it to be on par when it literally basically is on par? 🤔

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

yes but when you can pull over 6k on single target boss fights

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

we are on par imdastudd

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Hahhahahahhahaha

strong hill Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

@chilly brook if all tanks are similar , what would say would be the main reason prot warriors are not more represented in the m* leader boards etc

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

If that was the general argument or consensus about warrior tanks, I would actually be fine with it. "Why do warriors need to play better to be similar," the problem is, by and large, the WoW community and even the prot warrior community seems to think its an issue of "prot is just so much worse"

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Bro lemme link you some shit @sage cairn

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

the issue @chilly brook is it is only on par if you are almost flawless with play

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

Because public perception Kindredlies

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:11 PM

#

We’re not first in single target tanks at all

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

Folks who push the big keys will not take something they consider to be suboptimal

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

Those two statements are completely different, and you have a good bit of people in here that get mad, ahem, enraged, each time the (incorrect) public perception is brought up

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

@strong hill because the amount of effort needed to play properly

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

@knotty ermine that is my issue it is so much worse in the sense that we have to be near perfect to be ok

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

You don't though

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

And because of that people lower down on the leaderboards emulate the top

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

@uncut fractal aside from rerolling? Lol

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

You keep talking in extremes

strong hill Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

@chilly brook so it’s more of a less effort for equal or better reward for some other tanks ?

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

You don't have to be flawless

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

M+ leaderboards are kind of a shit metric for comparing specs tbh

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

you can accomplish big dirty pulls with other tanks with moree ease

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

Its the same idea as CE race guilds bringing only "the most optimal" tanks to raid

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

@sage cairn this is heroic fetid

📎 image0.png

#

Damage done

uncut fractal Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

@grim prism Yeah seeing how every m+ group avoids prot warriors makes me want to rerolla blood dk asap

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

@sage cairn anecdotally speaking I’m not perfect by any means, healers still say they like me / I’m easier to heal / etc than other non-ware tanks they deal with

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

Like there is a very clear difference in "you need to pay attention and actually effectively use your cds" and "you must be this far on the spectrum to be a decent warrior tank"

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

i mean there are like 5 buttons that affect your survivability, you aren't doing rocket surgery

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

@strong hill it’s easier to get the same results with other tanks, other tanks also don’t punish you for missing something

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

we can make up for crap with knowledge of the game but like i stated earlier a good tank of any other kind will be easier to heal than a good prot war

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

So folks since we're rehashing this over and over

Warriors are hard to play perfectly.
Warriors must be played near a perfect level to match other tanks.
We lack the massive health padding (raw and EHP both) versus stuff that is not blockable damage, this affords our healers MUCH smaller windows to react, thus our healers must be better along with us.
We take the least damage by far in nearly all situations, but because of our skill cap we are not viewed as optimal in any situation.
If you want to prot, you'll be able to do all content, but you'll have to deal with being the Redheaded step-tank of the game until they put a buff in the patch notes.

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

you just have to usee them properly

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

You would think that, but I would wager that every single person that says "prot warriors are shit," are also overlapping SB and LS

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

@uncut fractal if you want to do M+ high keys, you shoudl go paladin

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

sure

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:14 PM

#

just as an example

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

but doesn't mean you need to be john nash

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

#2 I disagree with, but sure

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

lol i agree with your 5 points

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

@sage cairn all tanks should have knowledge of the game and the encounter period it’s not just a prot warrior thing

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

Look,
a badly played warrior is not as good as badly played DK or monk.
An average warrior is not as good as an average DK/monk.
An awesome warrior is not as good as an awesome DK/monk.

Is an awesome warrior better than a bad DK? Maybe, but how is that relevant?

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 6:15 PM

#

You think a prot warrior played perfect; is better or equal to a DK, Monk, or Prot Paladin played perfectly?

knotty ermine Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

Point 2 is a bit heavy-handed. You don't need to play perfectly, you just need to not suck.

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

@fleet ridge on certain fights

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

@junior igloo took the words out of my mouth

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

Assuming perfect play sure

#

But it depends on situations

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

You compare players by how good they are

jovial reef Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

PrOt iS FiNe

#

daily spam

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

Not bad plays

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

An awesome warrior is better than a awesome DK, probably not monk, but the variation between a shit DK and an awesome DK is about 0.01%

#

while a shit warrior and an awesome warrior is like 500%

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

Right, so a badly played warrior is so much worse then a badly played DK, Monk, or Pally

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:16 PM

#

right

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

and most players are bad; which is why warriors "suck bad"

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

thus the "warriors are shit" public perception

fleet ridge Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

which is obvious

uncut fractal Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

@uneven mason if I want to spam m+ what would you choose between dk & pala and why?

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

@uneven mason I think you're overstating how perfectly you have to play to sorta meet the bar

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

Paladins bring way more to the table

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

I know I don’t play perfectly

#

I still have healers that tell me they barely have to do anything to keep alive

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

^^^

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

Do I play well? Sure

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

at base item level for content warriors require more focused gameplay

tawny lantern Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

I think is a matter of utility rather than just survability, warriors only seems to bring mobility when other clase bring a lot more

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

Perfect no

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

@uncut fractal BDK has more representation on the M+ leaderboard today and that's apparently all half this discord cares about, so do that

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

Thus far we're scaling with gear amazingly well tho

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

Scaling with SHIELDS sure

#

Too bad they nerfed em

#

Hope you got a TF or are on mythic vectis

jovial reef Sep 17, 2018, 6:18 PM

#

warriors have great representation in raids

#

for dying a lot

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:19 PM

#

Mobility, damage reduction to targets, aoe stun, aoe fear, super high aoe damage, easy kiting

#

Temporary health boost

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 6:19 PM

#

@jovial reef loloololololol

tawny lantern Sep 17, 2018, 6:19 PM

#

You are just naming all of our cds, nothing that other clases dont have

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:19 PM

#

@jovial reef that’s more a reflection of the high skill floor and the players behind the class than the class itself

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

@jovial reef The healers seem to keep me alive better than the better geared BDK in my raid

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

Shields cannot TF @grim prism

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

Not anymore*

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

Last I checked other classes don’t have safeguard for an on demand fairly often damage reduction to the bosses target

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

I guess its mostly just frustrating to have to play at a higher level than other tanks just to be as good.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

If you wanna bring up things that only certain classes have then I guess grip is the only one

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

They could at this time last week before they hotnerfed them lol

#

Oops

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:21 PM

#

@neon tangle
You might just be better player than him.
We have the statistics from various difficulties from different skill levels, warriors are the highest dying tanks by far.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:21 PM

#

You can’t just discount a classes utility just cuz

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:21 PM

#

"the i guess grip is thee only one" cmon man

#

then*

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:22 PM

#

Peno it’s to demonstrate a stupid argument

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:22 PM

#

Seems this whole channel is to demonstrate a stupid argument this tier...

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

I won’t disagree

#

All tanks are fine rn, play what you want.

#

Ez

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:23 PM

#

Is Sense still maining Prot Warrior? Successfully?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

If you’re bleeding edge and that 1% difference matters to you then you wouldn’t be asking these questions

#

Yes

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

Then there you go.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

And so is Marok @wild atlas

junior igloo Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

Ferals are just as good at multidotting as affli, play what you want, "Ez"

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

We’re fine.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

Good strawman

#

Really like it

#

Does it come in red?

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/tichondrius/Sense

World of Warcraft

Sense - WoW

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

It was rhetoric

#

I’m saying that we have strong leaders of this discord still pushing through despite not playing the sexy tank of the patch. If you enjoy warrior, work hard to be good and you will find success

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

As someone who had a hand in formulating the "prot has a high skill floor" argument, I'd like to go on record as saying I never tried to imply we were the best (or among the best) tanks for pushing high-end content, just that people raiding as prot right now (de facto not CE racers) are going to be more dependent on individual skill than raid composition.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

I feel like this channel is more about “Why you shouldn’t play prot” then “This is the prot channel”

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:26 PM

#

TLDR "if you have to ask, it doesnt matter"

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:26 PM

#

^

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

lol this stupid argument again

jovial reef Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

i mean there really isn't much more to say about prot

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

feels like its daily atthis point

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

Pretty much

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

Some degree of frustration is natural given the community perception of us. The best thing we can do is continue to prove the community wrong by playing well. Ideally, Blizzard will help us at some point, but if they don't, we will scale well and things will get easier regardless.

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

It’s just toxicity. People tryin to stir shit up. Let’s just help he others improve and excel. Shit.

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

@merry cave Daily would imply it only happens once a day

calm cove Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

If you wanna play prot play prot if you wanna play at a certain level and cant cuz you arent good enough to do it with prot play a better tank

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

fair

calm cove Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

Pretty simple

#

Same every tier

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

I think if you are frustrated with prot, it just means you havent been playing long enough to become jaded like us

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

@grim prism can I commit sudoku yet 🙃

vale gorge Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

I just hope they don't nerf our DPS output if they do decide to make changes to prot war

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:28 PM

#

they will

#

they'll 'shif tthe damage back to shield slam'

#

which is a nice way of saying we may be similar to other tanks ST but our aoe will be nerfed

vale gorge Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

yeah, which will be a straight up aoe dmg nerf

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

They’d have to

#

I wouldn’t say we’re super similar in ST

#

Especially if TC gets nerfed

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

I PUGGED A +10

#

AND ONE SHOTTED EVERY BOSS

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

Yay

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

Nice, Catfriend.

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

Did you timer it?

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

DIDNT MAKE TIMER, BUT CAME CLOSE

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:29 PM

#

🙌🏻

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

13 mins past timer

#

it was kings rest

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

close 🙃

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

That's pretty good. I think that's where I got when I pugged my 10.

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

the healer said i did good

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

Honestly I'm more surprised you found a +10 willing to pug a prot war

#

Lol

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

😜

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

i needed the confidence boost after spending 4.5 hours in two separate +11s and not finishing either

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

Didn’t mean to do the thinking one

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

@grim prism A week ago I could pug anything, but the whole warrior is garbage nonsense is spreading.

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

um they declined me at first

#

and i msged leader

#

and siad "please 😦 <3"

#

and then he invited me

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

Nice. Please worked? I gotta try that.

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

yup

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

What the ~ilvl necessary for +10s?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

Well the community perception of prot being garbage is two fold

junior ivy Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

i get places ith politeness

#

itrs the canadian in me

#

with*

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

On one hand it’s good because it pushes people who aren’t willing to learn how to play well away from the class

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

I am 350 and I've done +10 without a whole lot of difficulty. Admittedly, I have a 370 shield but most of my other essential pieces are trash.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

On the other it makes those of us who actually play correctly have an uphill battle

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:31 PM

#

you can do a +10 at like 345,

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

@neon tangle 350 is enough, but most people will want 365+ BIGDICKSONLY

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

So in some ways it helps dispel the belief but in others it makes it hard to dispel it

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

Because most people are trash and can't follow mechanics.

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

Welp I hit 350 last weekend, maybe I should push some higher keys

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

@neon tangle DO IT

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

yeah you def should

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

What M+ have you guys found the easiest to do this week with tyrannical / bursting

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

I'm routinely farming like 6's and 7's and pushing a weekly 10

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

Freehold

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

do it sad box.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

🙃

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

Atal'dazar, Tol'dagor, Waycrest, Freehold.

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

AD

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

at least we're not bear druids?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

Ataldazar is easy on any affix

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

Other than freehold 😛

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

the barf zombois are easier than the zerker packs

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

TD was pretty easy

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

this week

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

waycrest witch council on tyran no ty

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

KR is relatively easy

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

I hate freehold so much, that place is buggy as hell

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

I tried Underrot for the first one of the week....

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

Waycrest is kinda aids on last boss tbh

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

@exotic spoke I'm so sorry

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

Like, relative to KR last week lol

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

I got asked to do a +9 Under

#

and I was like 🖕

upbeat folio Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

I have more trouble with Tol'dagor than anything else in pugs because of the 3rd boss.

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

UR isn't that bad this week!

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

@uneven mason Maybe that's where my frustration came in on. First boss was literal aids

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

First boss of under sucks

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

if you can dps check the crawg

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

Waycrest is kinda aids in general

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

Ticks on bursting with 2 hunters NOPE

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

UR isn't all that bad

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

I think UR is one of the easier ones tbh

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:33 PM

#

you can skip every tick pack

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

why ar eyou pulling ticks?

#

yeah

#

haha

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

You shouldn't pull ticks, but the first boss is aids

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

bring shroud

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

Hey, or you can be me, and have DPS pull EVERY. FUCKING. TICK.

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

shroud to first boss

#

lust

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

I love smacking bosses with 50-60k spell reflects this week

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

As long as your group understands boss mechanics

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

clear until you have lust for 2nd boss

#

and hope you can kill 2nd boss

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

2nd boss isn't too bad if you tank in that corner with the bones

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

Only problem is I have to literally tell the DPS “DONT KICK THE NEXT CAST”

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:34 PM

#

it's the rampage

#

so much damage

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

did KR and had issues with the amount of DPS on first boss too. Third boss randomly summoned totems after he was dead. Hadn't seen that before.

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

group has to run far away from eachother getting the ticks

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Thats one of the mechanics @exotic spoke

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

I had that bug in KR last week

brave jetty Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Macro Spell Reflect to a groupwide shout not to interrupt?

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

totems after dead

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Totems after dead is not a bug

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

@grim prism Yeah, just hadn't seen it before is all.

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

since when? I thought it was just nova after death?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Its the same as the guy popping up to cast nova

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

like after you killed the boss?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Nope

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Wait, what spell can you reflect?

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Got it next pull. Just was surprised

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

first boss of UR?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

@neon tangle blood bolt

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:35 PM

#

Same mechanic, different phase

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

ah

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

@vivid sage oh shit, TIL

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

you should be SR that on CD

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

Void Bolt on 3rd boss in Shrine

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

We did KR and had a totem that was evading everything....even worse it was the one that threw out a million ground based swirly aoes

#

Needless to say that boss ripped the key

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

That one I would say is a bug. Lol

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

Yea

#

Can’t kill totem

#

Tons more stuff to dodge

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

people are not killing the adds on first boss right?

#

and kiting around

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:36 PM

#

Yea

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

Yup. I feel like I could do KR 10 now no issue with the right dps. But fuck Underrot IMO

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

Just bring a mage

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

Druid

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

mage nerfs inc

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

In KR? We killed first wave on a close stack and burned boss with slows on the following rounds

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

underrot is free key if you can kill the 2nd boss

#

imo

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:37 PM

#

Why bother killing the wave? Just keep them locked down

#

What comp did you run peno?

#

I had a rogue / mage / lock / hpal and me

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

hpal, rogue, lock, prot

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

Underrot is free key if you have DPS that know mechanics*

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

trying to remember 5th dps

#

mageE?

#

DK

#

uh dk

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:38 PM

#

Interesting. Tank him near a wall to keep the larva together on charge?

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

bonepile

#

get him behind the bones

#

and they all just shit in 1 spot

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

Does that stop tantrum too?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:39 PM

#

doesn't stop tantrum

#

that's the biggest thing for me is the amount of dmg that goes out in the tantrum and getting all the ticks

#

you have to designate where each person goess

#

and i mean i had a lock and a dk and we still made it

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

That's what we had issues with. I was thinking R Druid may be better than a hpal for that

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

Yeah we usually run dk, lock, dh for dps and the lock and dk are slow as fuck lol sometimes we get them all sometimes we dont

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

i mean

#

lock can circle across the room

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

i dont think its a great key this week

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

but burning rush is scary during that phase

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:40 PM

#

itd be one of my bottom few this week for sure

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

i never realized in SOTS you can just kite last boss and adds just go away

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

Wait

#

what

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

apparently that's the strat

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

The little adds not the ones you get while phasing?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:41 PM

#

my +15 pusher buddies were like yeah SOTS tyran free key

#

the little ones

exotic spoke Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

ahhh ok

#

back to work.. Well back to making it look like I'm working now

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

They disappear?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

i was freaking out likee what am i missing these adds destroy us

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

I know some people were complaining about last bosses blade combo this week but it was literally ezpz to me

elder tusk Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

after how long do they disappear?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

Barely did any damage on a +9

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

Wait wait wait. I see what he’s saying

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

i haven't done it to confirm myself but apparently when you phase to the healer + tank / dps phase

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

If you kite tre boss away from adds, once he puts you into the phase, those adds on the outside disappear

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

yea

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

Yes ok. I got you now

elder tusk Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

Ah cool

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:43 PM

#

Ranged friendly. Not the best for melee, but they’ll cope

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

I could use a ranged person who can interupt on that fight

#

dude loves to start casting in the middle of a puddle

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

Yea

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

bring enh shaman ez pz

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

Yea on shrine the adds disappear after the phase

#

You come out and they’re gone

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:44 PM

#

How is prot warrior atm? I dont like my druid tank 😃

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

Depends who you ask

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

@worthy perch Let me sum this up for you, and save the channel 30 minutes

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

when you spec into prot chris metzen bitchslaps your grandmother

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

it's harder to play

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

But expect to put in effort to play properly, if you do they’re fine @worthy perch

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:45 PM

#

and you will die more if you're bad at it

#

which may or may not be bad depending on who you ask

#

/thread

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

Pretty much

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

I see

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

If you want ez play a DK

weary notch Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

or monk'

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

I mean even monk requires some brain initially

#

Then when you understand stagger and how it works it requires less brain

merry cave Sep 17, 2018, 6:46 PM

#

Cant monks still 1 button cast sequence there entire rotation lol

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:47 PM

#

Prolly

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:47 PM

#

skyhold

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:47 PM

#

It’s not out of the realm of possibility

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:47 PM

#

I tank in my guild as druid after my guild pretty much talked down warriors.

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:47 PM

#

You always cast the same order

#

What content does your guild do?

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

The other tank is a DK and compared to them warriors might be weak

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

@worthy perch No worries, the general community sentiment is that druids are worse

#

so there you go

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

Normal? Heroic? Mythic?

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

everyone that i just talked to about the adds on SOTS last boss, i just checked with my guys

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

pleb casual guild, soon going into HC

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

I tank w/ a BDK, my healers / raid don't care

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

apparently the adds can just reach the boss when you're in the other phase

#

they blow up and don't hurt you

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

Weak if played bad, if played well it’s a wash

vivid sage Sep 17, 2018, 6:48 PM

#

but they do give him energy

#

so it shortens your damage window

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:49 PM

#

So it really shouldn’t matter what tank you’re playing then tbh

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

Just try it and see if you like it, honestly. "Viability" is a non-issue if you're just doing casual or semi-hardcore play.

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:50 PM

#

Yea im gonna try to pug some and see how it goes.

hasty slate Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

I think being familiar with the encounters helps warriors play exceptionally well since we can better time our active mitigation.

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

I really love my warrior so it hurts everytime i have to log the druid 😃

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

@grim prism it’s always Keg Smash>Blackout Strike>Breath of Fire>Blackout Strike>Tiger Palm>Rushing Jade Wind and repeat at least before BFA, it’s reasonably the same now but with a dead global every other repeat where BoF is

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

i mean

hasty slate Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

Prot warrior is <3

ember arrow Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

if ur guild forces u to play a certian tank

#

and theyre doing hc

#

all i can say is Omegalul

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:51 PM

#

So I’d assume you could do a cast sequence macro

#

Truth

#

The guild really shouldn’t be asking you to play certain classes if they’re only going to do heroic and I’d assume there are far more issues that are more easily fixed than your class

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:53 PM

#

Yea but with four rotational buttons, there’s no need for a one button cast sequence

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

I’d agree

#

I never used one

#

¯_(ツ)_/¯

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

heroic is like a joke to me now

#

as prot

#

literally godmode

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

I’d love to say that

#

If Zul didn’t exist

worthy perch Sep 17, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

Do you guys have any good videos for tips and tricks?

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:54 PM

#

For fetid offtanking do we always have a CD or shield block up? Do you ever swap off with the MT?

#

I have mainly been MT-ing it

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

We can literally have a Cd or block up for every one

#

Assuming good play

#

If you really need you can ask for an external but you probably won’t

hasty slate Sep 17, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

@timmy read through the icy veins guides. It has some good info.

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

i MT fetid cos my brew doesnt want to

#

lol

weary notch Sep 17, 2018, 6:55 PM

#

@raven kernel you have an insane shield. That's part of what you're seeing

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

thats true

#

but things like mythax shear and void lash

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

how does one MT fetid

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

also tickle me

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

Lemme see this Shield

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

I got called bad by a shadow priest that did less damage most of the time than me 😰

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

there's a tank swap in that fight that happens regularly

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

@astral crystal just slap him in the face?

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

not what i meant

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

Wait you need to swap on fetid 🤔

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:56 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

Wow

#

Just wow

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

fml

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

Lucky dude

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

I'm living w/ my 340 still

weary notch Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

that's literally 1100 more block than I have

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

Must do more AD

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

I’m still trying to understand this tank swap you speak of for fetid @astral crystal

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:57 PM

#

oh i was thinking about vectis

#

nevermind

#

:^)

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

Lol

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

why do those names seem so similar to me

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

🙃

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

also i grinded ataldazar for a whole day on saturday

#

nonstop almost

#

got the 370 shield

#

still feel cheated

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

Ayyyy

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

like it could've been 380

#

this game man

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

lol

weary notch Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

shields can't titanforge anymore

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

@gaunt coyote you got called bad by a shadow priest?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

Still stuck with a 355 Shield

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

10 ilvls isnt titan right?

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

No but they can warforge

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:58 PM

#

You’re going to get the 380 in weekly cache

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Aka up to 10 ilvls

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Calling it

weary notch Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

thought titan was 15+

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

vitch pls

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Did you step through a timewarp into last expac or something?

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

shadow is feelsbad

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Titan is 15+

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

He said im the reason we didnt clear the key :pepehands:

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

I thought they removed shadow from the game

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

War is 5-10

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

shadow sucks so bad but priests dont dare to complain about it cos they'll get disc nerfed instead

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

wait so if it comes from the chest 380, can it forge 385+?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Dude I queued into a low key with my disc friend, i shit you not the spriest did less damage than the healer

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

If you completed a 10 I believe the base is 380

chilly brook Sep 17, 2018, 7:00 PM

#

It could be 390 @astral crystal

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:00 PM

#

ok, that's what i'm wondering

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:00 PM

#

If I didnt have Details running live I'd have thought he was AFKing fights

wild atlas Sep 17, 2018, 7:00 PM

#

I’m just saying, that shit always happens to me. I either spend a lot of gold in something or a lot fi time on something. Get it, then get it again for free right after

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:00 PM

#

if 380 is taken as a base despite it saying titanforged or w/e

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:02 PM

#

it'll say mythic 10 warforged

#

380

#

from the chest

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:06 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

from lebbit

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:07 PM

#

XD

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:07 PM

#

ouch

#

lol

#

oh man, next week's affixes sound like garbage

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:07 PM

#

r/wow correct as always

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:07 PM

#

I feel they are really hard to play right cause it isnt neccisarily intuitive

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:07 PM

#

I don't even want to think about shadow of zul in high KR

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

but once you get it I feel pretty durable

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

double damage shadow of zul 😦

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

r/wow is one of the most amazingly negative places I've ever been

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

i dont completely disagree with their statement if you look at M+ alone, raids i disagree though

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

I saw some post a couple weeks back asking for prot war tips that @hot locust posted on, it got slid by some guy suggesting suboptimal talents iirc

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 7:08 PM

#

outclassed in every way, but still do good damage marok

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:09 PM

#

was preach doing a warrior main?

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:09 PM

#

isnt he frost mage

#

main

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:09 PM

#

idk, that was legion

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:09 PM

#

i saw one of his prot war videos in bfa

#

think its its alt

#

but he didnt play it very well

#

devastator for dungeons XD

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:10 PM

#

lul

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:10 PM

#

I think Ip on the gcd threw me off until I got around 340

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:11 PM

#

"PROT IS SHIT, THIS IV TALENT HARDLY HEALS ME, AND I DIE IN ravager "

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:11 PM

#

talent choice sucks though

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:11 PM

#

what choice?

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:12 PM

#

indomnitable 🤔

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:12 PM

#

tfw some guy was in here last week because his guild's prot maintank was running indom/ravager on fetid

#

and he wanted to make sure he wasnt taking crazy pills before he called the guy out

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:12 PM

#

i MEAN

#

That 35% parry

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 7:12 PM

#

do you run punish or itf on raid bosses

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:12 PM

#

itf

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

He wanted ravager explicitly for ranged pickup thyme

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

itf is too fun

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

Punish looks good on paper

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

that is what i run ws just wondering

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

It will never beat 15% haste

sage cairn Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

i run itf ct uf bolster storm boomin and anger for m+

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

it will if primary source of dmg is magic

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

more haste = more rage = more anger mgmt

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

but atm i dont think that condition exists?

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

haste isnt just about block uptimes

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:13 PM

#

it has more to do with the CDR on SHield Block Balsaq

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

i'm aware

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

I have both outlaw and prot war, the high innate haste is awesome

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

rage gain from haste increases is miniscule at best

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

That's not quite true.

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

I mean

#

the GCD changes

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:14 PM

#

Haste fuels basically everything, so more Haste is just a tighter / quicker system, with the way our kit works.

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:15 PM

#

more rage, more CDR, further rage gain

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:15 PM

#

You're right in that we're limited by the GCD, but it is an increase.

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:15 PM

#

to me the biggest thing is shield block uptime

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:15 PM

#

man, reading this thread, people talking about bad experiences with prot warriors in 4s and 5s

#

this is the skillcap for the average plebbitor

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

well those are still people who arent interrupting shit or pulling properly or using CDs on trash, etc

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

im just saying, how do you even have problems with keys at that level

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

I mean what do they expect bringing people below ilvl 360 to their +3 key?

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

The average player is pretty bad

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

run with people who dont have the gear or the experience

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:16 PM

#

WHich makes them playing as a Warrior even worse

#

Simply because of how skill-reliant the spec is

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

which tanks ranks the most easy to fuck up?

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

us

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

warrior easily

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

I think I'm going to change it from "Skill-reliant" to "Attention Span Dependent"

vocal nimbus Sep 17, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

warrior>vdh>everything else

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

Prot can't outgear stupid 😉

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

people dont know how strong shield block is

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

also reading blood DKs take the least damage out of any tank

#

???????????

waxen cradle Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

What there are classes that can out gear stupid ?

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

what is happening in this thread

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:18 PM

#

I think bear can

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

@astral crystal Welcome to reddit

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

well, real question, do they require the least external heals?

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

BrM comes out of the box with a pretty big "Idiot Buffer"

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

brew outgears stupid tbh

#

just have good healers

#

i mean look at ....

#

cough

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

if they require the least external heals, then it's not a surprise people think they take the least dmg

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

Warriors?

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

DK

undone sun Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

Least external heals and least damage taken aren't synonymous

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

erm

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

I'm also of the impression that bear outgears stupid, but it has a crazy low skillcap so they kind of suck right now

waxen cradle Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

lol cough what now @raven kernel

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

I mean

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

lalala

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

They are the only tank with as little representation as prot

neon tangle Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

@astral crystal WHat's the thread?

waxen cradle Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

lol

grim prism Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

They just arent as widely-disliked

frosty wedge Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

Bears suck atm and are just BORING to play

prisma crane Sep 17, 2018, 7:20 PM

#

@undone sun i know, that's my point, people may think they take the least simply because they have to personally heal them the least

stark sage Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

DKs have the least amount of player deaths by percentage in uldir

gaunt coyote Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

cant brew just hold 200% stagger and laugh?

uneven mason Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

Bears are only low representation because there are few things that licking drywall beats for an exciting time.

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

DKs have Purgatory

raven kernel Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

your healers bleed mana when you're at 200% stagger

final mist Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

So if they fuck up, there's a less likely chance they'll actually die

astral crystal Sep 17, 2018, 7:21 PM

#

thread in question @neon tangle