guys how do i make it so that when i move a boss I dont tank it with my back
#protection
brave jetty
use mobility skills if you don't need to save them, potentially
raven kernel
side strafe
brave jetty
side step too
uncut fractal
what does side strafe count as?
raven kernel
your front is 180 degree
surreal maple
I mean we are fine as we are a nerf to anger management would set us back even further from the godlike dks
brave jetty
auto swings are usually pretty slow so you can also possibly move in between hits safely
We're not really fine as we are but obv a nerf to Anger Management would need to be offset
limber perch
if they nerf anger management im out
brave jetty
We can be in a poor spot relatively speaking as tanks and still have an OP talent
whole yacht
how can they nerf prot warrior ANY MORE
whole yacht
does prot even do good damage compared to other tanks???
limber perch
yes
brave jetty
AoE yes
surreal maple
Yes it does
brave jetty
Our AoE damage is ludicrous
whole yacht
i see
brave jetty
you'll take your meager healing from azerite traits and you'll fucking like it
whole yacht
maybe like a second wind kinda thing that procs while ignore pain is active
brave jetty
they need to make impending victory baseline tbh
whole yacht
that'd be nice
surreal maple
The bracers from legion kappa
brave jetty
I was just typing that too lol
whole yacht
As soon as i hit 115
brave jetty
At least make that a talent of some sort
whole yacht
i cried
because i knew it was my last level knowing peace
never before in any game has a patch actually broken my heart
i loved lamping people with my shield and now i get lamped
What talents you guys running to make it less insufferable
brave jetty
Less insufferable how? We simply don't have self-healing for all intents and purposes, just have mitigation instead
Can't really compensate in that department if the options don't even exist
surreal maple
Talent choices? What do you mean ? That's just an illusion
whole yacht
can you just help me
surreal maple
There is no choice
limber perch
dragon charging off cliffs is cool i guess
whole yacht
I guess i take wpvp too seriously
i feel like i should stand a fair chance against every class but its just not how it works
whole yacht
i dont take it /seriously/ but like
i like fighting people
and i'd like it to be skill based
rather than who has the heal
im just butthurt
I have a rogue and i shitstomp wpvp naturally but it feels too easy
grim prism
Well its good you like fighting because its almost impossible to kill anything without dragoncharging it off a cliff lol
Fight forever!
limber perch
i could beat a ret pal on the skin of my teeth
and lost to the same guy as prot and he was 100%
whole yacht
thats reasonable
sick matrix
isn't Rallying cry + last stand a pretty good heal?
grim prism
Yeah but thats all prot is good for in wpvp. Reducing enemy output while not dying
surreal maple
Rallycry a heal lol
whole yacht
yikes
sick matrix
ah you're talking pvp
grim prism
If you actually manage to kill someone 1v1 as a prot in wpvp
Its because they are really, really bad
whole yacht
i killed an afk if that counts
chrome falcon
Anyone else been running 3x deafening crash in m+?
grim prism
Prot pvp damage is abysmal at best
chrome falcon
My god my dps is fucking disgusting
whole yacht
i was playing MW monk and my god that is disgusting to duel
grim prism
@chrome falcon negative
whole yacht
you just lose
surreal maple
What
whole yacht
they dont even gotta push buttons
surreal maple
That does not seem worth
grim prism
Youre going to eventually lose to almost everyone that doesnt get bored trying to chisel you down in wpvp as prot lol
On the plus side, you can run away from pretty much everything incl DHs
Hooray
chrome falcon
IP being 50% rather than whatever it was in Legion is so much worse for pvp
So, so much worse
whole yacht
I miss the set bonus where you could span crit shield slams
with 90% damage reduction
spam*
THAT was some good ass pvp
whole yacht
i was metaphorically fucking peoples girlfriends in frotn of them
i like the thematic of prot warrior so much i wish it had a dps variant
limber perch
remember first 3 weeks of legion
grim prism
Dude i was metaphorically fucking people in front of their girlfriends in prot wpvp last expac
limber perch
topping healing meters
grim prism
Too masc for life
chrome falcon
They should actually try to make glad stance work at some point
... anything but ravager
whole yacht
i loved glad stance
whole yacht
my fav rotation but i can dps!? golly
grim prism
Well lets have them make baseline prot war slightly better before we add stances lol
WTB IP at 75% absorb
Thats all I want please Iom
whole yacht
So sad
delicate prism
what's the best weapon enchant for prot? The armor one I'm guessing?
chrome falcon
Quick Navigation
chrome falcon
I'm pretty sure prot is fine
vivid sage
Things seem pretty balanced to me
thorn narwhal
Azurite is the worst designed system in either the history of design or the history of systems tbh
grim prism
I mean there are some pretty glaring issues with the azerite system, which are compounded by the new loot paradigm (including undocumented changes to weekly chest drops). Not to mention obvious cases of imbalance, like Deafening Crash being borderlike mandatory for prot, Streaking Stars being crazy OP on boomies, Thunderous Blast being BiS or near-BiS for every DPS spec in the game, etc.
As well as the fact that multidot classes like aff, spriest, and boomy are inexplicably shit at 3-5 targets
Which should be their peak niche
There's just a lot of half-baked shit going on this expac, and although I am still enjoying it, I don't know if I will continue to beyond a couple weeks from now unless azerite is overhauled. At the very least, I would disagree that things are balanced well.
Not trying to shit in the punchbowl here or anything
But the game could benefit from some tweaks. I'll leave it at that.
sick matrix
Is Deafening Crash really necessary though?
grim prism
At high levels I would say yes
It literally quintuples your demo shout uptime
Thats absurd
Lol
thorn narwhal
Yeah not using that is silly
grim prism
Only in wpvp with an honor talent
thorn narwhal
Thinking emoji
sick matrix
oh
brave jetty
You can both be enjoying the game right now and have issues with the design
grim prism
Which is borderline irrelevant to prot
thorn narwhal
To everyone *
grim prism
Because we cant kill other players without help in 95% of cases lol
sick matrix
oh right, apologies... was wondering how this feels so different
brave jetty
I'm really liking WoW right now but the fact is this expansion is an abject failure in terms of key features and systems
surreal maple
Beta for Azeroth
grim prism
Yeah you can easily keep 100% uptime on demo in wpvp. Much harder in pve instances
surreal maple
Battle for Alpha
brave jetty
With design decisions that aren't simply a matter of opinion or taste, but often just strictly problematic or inferior to corresponding systems from Legion
chilly brook
Might be much harder in pve but you can do 70% uptime 🙃
grim prism
@brave jetty yeah I feel ya :/ its fun for now but i dont think its sustainable for more than another couple weeks in its current state
brave jetty
They definitely have a closing window right now before they do a lot of harm to the prospects of the game
hasty slate
I played WoD and now BFA. Apprantly i only skip the good ones
brave jetty
I know the rhetoric is getting pretty crazy as the shine of the new expansion fades a bit
brave jetty
But I think BfA is borderline disastrous in how severe the features and systems fail
chilly brook
But yes you all are correct the window is closing
@brave jetty tbh it’s ez fixes imo
grim prism
Only increase HP
chilly brook
Outside of azerite traits
brave jetty
Some things are, some things aren't
grim prism
Honestly, making azerite farmable in M+ (or at least high drop rate in the weekly) is all it would take for me to be sold on it
brave jetty
I think some of the systems are going to require pretty substantial changes to function/progression/incentives
chilly brook
Azerite traits somewhat ez fix
brave jetty
That's not even close to adequate lol
chilly brook
Just literally allow us to farm the items in dungeons
sick matrix
I honestly think that would be a bad idea
grim prism
They are easy fixes, but you have to understand that these systems exist to encourage recurrent subs
Not to make the game more fun
chilly brook
@sick matrix Wadu hek
Are we even playing the same class?
DC is too valuable for it to be an rng chance on top of an rng chance
brave jetty
Well of course the systems make sense from that perspective
sick matrix
It would very quickly ruin the game if you could farm AP that quickly
chilly brook
No it wouldn’t
brave jetty
But obv that's not a defensible design approach
Azerite gear has like 3-4 fundamental problems
chilly brook
We’re literally artificially gated @sick matrix
grim prism
It would ruin the game quicker if your advancement beyond ilvl 340 is completelt RNG based
Which is arguably the case right now
chilly brook
^
brave jetty
One of the major ones being that you get punished for upgrading gear by being forced to reacquire shit you've already earned
chilly brook
Not to mention good luck being able to unlock azerite traits on Mythic gear without dedicating every waking hour to grinding AP
sick matrix
so you prefer game over after 4 weeks and switch to alts...?
chilly brook
Because AP is the only thing to work towards on a main.....
brave jetty
Making the AP grind more palatable does not address the core issues whatsoever
grim prism
I prefer to be able to target gear I want, and not dread getting 385 shoulders without DC on them
brave jetty
We'd still have major incentives/progression problems, we'd still have problems with the RNG and access to the gear in the first place, etc.
chilly brook
@brave jetty no but it fixes the issue for a bit because Azerite as a whole is going to need a complete overhaul
vivid sage
I feel like people would complain if you got geared in the first 2 weeks and loot drops were never an upgrade
surreal maple
I kinda feel baited into this exp thinking that m+ would be on pair with raiding or at least not far beyond but making it this hard for me (that i don't have the time to raid anymore) to obtain proper azerite traits makes it that much worse
chilly brook
Loot drops are already not an upgrade
Literally pretty much all azerite gear in Uldir isn’t an upgrade
grim prism
We already jumped from ilvl 280 to ilvl 365 in the first four weeks of the expac lol
mellow bridge
Well even with high m+ you have to pray that you get smth in your weekly
else youre fucked
frosty wedge
yeah, fair
mellow bridge
could be any other item as well
azerite gear is just rly badly designed atm imho
Most traits are boring
chilly brook
^
frosty wedge
the weekly should honestly drop 1 azerite and 1 random item
mellow bridge
Literally the only two interesting prot warrior ones are deafening and callous reprisal
the rest is just passive shit that you dont play around
frosty wedge
yeah, if shimmering haven were more powerful it'd be interesting
grim prism
Either boring passives, crazy OP, or both simultaneously lol
chilly brook
Like I said, allowing azerite to drop in dungeons would be one step forward and would be a decent bandaid until they can overhaul it
frosty wedge
but again I don't like anything I have to stand in.
chilly brook
It would also make it so you weren’t completely fucked when they do overhaul it
Because you’d actually have an avenue to get either decent or BiS traits
That you could actually farm
Instead of leaving it to rng and being completely screwed
mellow bridge
remove azerite gear
bake traits into heart of azeroth
make it not cancer to grind
chilly brook
They’re not going to lol
grim prism
Man, I didnt mean to start a gripefest, but I am lowkey relieved that it's not just my circle of friends having issues with the game as a whole
mellow bridge
yeah theyre not going to
but that would be one way to do it imho
It's not Balsaq
chilly brook
They shouldn’t have gotten rid of artifact weapons tbh
brave jetty
One major thing they could do is to make the traits scale with AP
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
mellow bridge
basically anyone has issues with it atm
dark junco
Yeah @chilly brook
frosty wedge
I miss my artifact on-use so much.
dark junco
My circle of friends were sating the same
chilly brook
One thing they could have done is NOT MAKE AN ILVL UPGRADE MAKE YOU FARM AP TO BE ABLE TO USE IT
grim prism
Like I said I'm still enjoying it... i just dont foresee that being the case for another whole month if things remain as-is
brave jetty
HoA levels up your traits and once you have achieved the rank needed to access that trait, you don't ever need to reacquiere it just because you upgraded the ilvl
dark junco
Let us power it up and restore it to its former glory
frosty wedge
^^
chilly brook
AP I don’t have an issue with overall
neon tangle
Would you guys wear a 340 w/ brace for impact or a 370 w/ callous reprisal
chilly brook
This AP system I do
frosty wedge
370 callous
dark junco
340
neon tangle
on the note of hating artifacts
frosty wedge
BFI isn't worth 30 ilvls?
dark junco
Depends on 2nd tier at this point
chilly brook
I don’t even bother anymore going out of my way of getting AP
neon tangle
no second tier for the 370 yet
chilly brook
It’s just artificially gated
chilly brook
See what I mean
neon tangle
the 340 BFI also has lifespeed
brave jetty
They should do something that decouples gear from specific traits a bit
frosty wedge
really? I thought DC was 25 but otherwise it wasn't worth trading ilvl for traits?!
grim prism
Almost certainly beats out 40 ilvl of promaries
grim prism
The guide says "at least 25"
dark junco
Yup
frosty wedge
that's for DC.... we're talking about brace for impact
brave jetty
Almost like trait reforging or something, that'll help remove some of the layers of RNG baked into the system
dark junco
Hey c’mon
chilly brook
I mean I gotta question if 25 ilvl is worth upgrading when I have this kind of uptime
frosty wedge
he's asking 340 brace vs 370 callous reprisal
undone sun
can't say how much with enough certainty because the lack of sims
dark junco
“You shouldn’t have to go to a website to know if an item is an upgrade”
undone sun
so giving an at least is the best atm ¯_(ツ)_/¯
frosty wedge
it's gotta be worth putting on that 370
dark junco
-Ion 2017
neon tangle
Not deafening crash
grim prism
370 for sure if you arent losing DC
frosty wedge
^^
chilly brook
I know you’re not talking about DC
grim prism
DC is our only big dick trait
chilly brook
I’m talking about the azerite armor period
TBH all azerite gear should just have the lions share of the abilities
cold dove
Does anyone have a list for DPS trinket rankings for prot? I see defensive but nothing in terms of offense.
grim prism
That Ion quote is precisely why this server needs reaction emojis
chilly brook
Not this BS “only one spec specific trait per”
frosty wedge
oh i know, I'm saying someone else was saying brace for impact was worth 30 ilvls/giving bad advice.
grim prism
@cold dove negative. Prot SimC module doesnt work
neon tangle
okie, so
chilly brook
Your azerite armor should also allow you to pick a trait per spec
neon tangle
worth giving up BFI, not worth giving up DC
frosty wedge
yes
chilly brook
So you don’t need to clutter up your bags with 8 million pieces
grim prism
@neon tangle yes
frosty wedge
you NEED 1x DC
frosty wedge
like, if you don't have it, you're doing everyone around you a disservice
grim prism
I mean technically you might not even NEED to equip pants with the way ilvl scaling works lolok
cold dove
Thanks, got the ghuun trink and a 370 red button still trying to figure if I want to use them over 340 jes and eye
button is nice for the str alone
chilly brook
Well I’m just saying @grim prism IF you’re really good about DC and keep 70% uptime on Shout you’re really only looking at probably a 7-10% damage reduction over the whole of the fight
If you take that away our overall damage taken isn’t going to skyrocket
Granted you shouldn’t be running without one if you can help it
neon tangle
actually, how is archive of the titans?
chilly brook
Bleh
neon tangle
is the other choice for that 370 piece
undone sun
archive itself isn't amazing
but you want an array in raid
so Archive or Laser is your choice
undone sun
it should be retroactive
dark junco
We really want an array yet?
chilly brook
I could have array but I’d be losing DC
dark junco
It’d prefer a dc or bfi to 150 haste tbh
Now at week 10, yeah I’ll take the 750 haste
But right now I wouldn’t give up on bfi or dc
Thats me tho
chilly brook
Ideally I’ll sacrifice one BFI for it
dark junco
^
chilly brook
But certainly not DC rn
dark junco
Well depends, if you’re pushing for m ghuun, maybe bfi will be better than dc
chilly brook
Will it be though?
leaden carbon
Ion's ama is going to start in an hour. there is a single post asking for the state of prot warriors
dark junco
Need to so the math
chilly brook
🤦🏻♂️
leaden carbon
at this point I don't know or care if warrior is viable/inviable
dark junco
Will prot warrior get a utility for raid beside Chal Shout? Can IP be taken of GCD? Can devastator change line? Can we get a better sustain (Victory rush baseline)?
chilly brook
It 👏🏻 feels 👏🏻 fine 👏🏻
chilly brook
We don’t need IP off GCD nor would we benefit
neon tangle
They put pallies alternate AM on the GCD too, right?
chilly brook
Hand? Yea
leaden carbon
I would kill for a viable Devastator build or ip/rev weaving
dark junco
so yeah not happening then
neon tangle
I am kinda fond of having to plan / think about what I'm hitting
chilly brook
Meh as much as I loved Devastator, at current levels of haste it doesn’t feel good
grim prism
@chilly brook i predominantly run M+ and I can assure you that the % is much higher than that in practice... if its purely averaged out then 60% uptime on 25% demo is still 15% redux overall... consider then that it is usually used on pull in M+ when intake is highest
dark junco
No spot for devastate
grim prism
Sure DC isnt literally mandatory
dark junco
Im at 42
chilly brook
I mean that’s good isn’t it?
grim prism
But it is severely gimping yourself without it. Anf it is arguably way too impactful for a single trait
chilly brook
You’re not meant to be hitting it often
neon tangle
it's definitely a bummer if you get unlucky and don't get one of the pieces for it
since the only thing you can't farm is azerite gear
chilly brook
If there was one change that we could ask for
I would ask for t21 4 set to be baseline
It would actually mean we’d have an IP that lasted more than 1.5 seconds
leaden carbon
Please consider upvoting the prot question or adding feedback
neon tangle
sorta related, how hard is off-tanking fetid as prot? I'm terrified of running out of shield block
chilly brook
Ez
Don’t be
Honestly I’d prefer blizz keeps their eyes and hands off prot less chance of them fucking it up
calm sentinel
sad but true
undone sun
@leaden carbon link it
leaden carbon
When I first readed it there was a single post
now there are more regarding prot warriors
lol
we are hitting elemental shaman levels of QQ
prisma crane
a bit late to the convo earlier, but my 2c, we need something, be it a buff or something baller from azerite armor
half merlin
quick question. losing 100 crit and 100 haste but gaining 200 vers? (rounding numbers for ez ness)
prisma crane
there's a reason a ton of ppl arent playing their warriors
i will continue to play it
but it's not in a great spot
vocal nimbus
The playstyle isnt right, i would instantly go back to warrior if they changed it somehow
dark junco
Its because warrior is really punishing and because everyone hops onto the hypetrain
green isle
@dark junco marok/sal
dark junco
Expect a shitton of monk in the following weeks
green isle
for prot at least
leaden carbon
I just want to vengeance weave or to play devastator or even maybe be able to cast intervene/intercept off the gcd
vocal nimbus
Sal is playing protadin jacob
dark junco
Sal doesnt play warrior iirc
undone sun
sal plays paladin
undone sun
haHAA
dark junco
Thyme you play your warrior?
vocal nimbus
Sense and lala play warrior
dark junco
Lol
vocal nimbus
cosmo went arms
dark junco
So 2/12
vocal nimbus
🤷
dark junco
gg
prisma crane
that's my point exactly
prisma crane
you can clap between statements, but prot isnt in a great spot
hot locust
Disagree. 😃
chilly brook
It’s in a perfectly fine spot as far as tanking is concerned
vocal nimbus
Balance wise it is pretty decent, it just isnt fun to play for me
chilly brook
That’s like saying that disc isn’t in a great spot
prisma crane
nothing like being 5/6 of 6 in both raids and M+
leaden carbon
@vocal nimbus ^^ that
dark junco
The fact that its 2/12 community managers that are playing prot speak for itself @hot locust
chilly brook
Says who
Sco?
Lul
Let’s listen to the guy who runs suboptimal talents on his warrior
prisma crane
you obviously havent been around in this channel long enough to know that im not ignorant enough to go off of what Sco says
vocal nimbus
Prot warrior is VERY solid in Uldir
chilly brook
I mean if you compare logs prot is literally doing better than any other tank from a mitigation standpoint
dark junco
Prot is first
vocal nimbus
^
green isle
do you not get bored complaining on discord about your spec
leaden carbon
not me :x
chilly brook
Deaths doesn’t mean anything other than it’s not being played correctly 🤔
Or the group is ass
Or a million other things
prisma crane
pure mitigation means fuckall, monks take an assload of dmg, yet they're amazing tanks
undone sun
+1
chilly brook
🤔
Taking one statistic that has so many variables and attributing it to a problem with the class 🤔
green isle
warrior is good, your average player isn't
grand burrow
just did 2x +8 Waycrest , 2chested both. but DAMN i feel squishy >.<
chilly brook
Instead ^
cold dove
Prot has smaller room for error is all. It is fine other than IP being a little underwhelming. A bad prot will get dunked much faster than a bad druid
prisma crane
i'm just saying, overall, balance for tanks isnt in a terrible spot, but GL convincing me that we're going to make an impression in either raids or M+ in our current state
but that's been the case for ages
chilly brook
Define impression
grim prism
I missed a little bit here but I gotta say
chilly brook
Because we’re literally fine
prisma crane
as in something people will look for
grim prism
Sco is a more-than-capable mythic tank
But he has been shit at prot war for quite a while
Lol
neon tangle
sorry re: az traits again
chilly brook
Just because you don’t use a class that requires more effort in higher level content doesn’t mean they’re bad it means just that they’d rather use something that doesn’t require more effort in the higher content
neon tangle
DC is worth ~how many ilvls?
grim prism
@neon tangle fucking LOTS of them
prisma crane
also because for quite a while, prot warrior isnt worth investing playtime in as a WF player
frosty wedge
sco's not great at BRM either... he's not purifying nearly enough and he's dying because of it, lol
chilly brook
Hence popularity of monks
grim prism
We dont have an exact number
brave jetty
We can be both 'fine' and in a poor spot in terms of balance relative to other tanks
chilly brook
Not even running Blackout Brew
grim prism
But 30+ for sure
neon tangle
well fun
chilly brook
Those two things are pretty contradictory @brave jetty
brave jetty
They aren't, though
mellow bridge
it's not contradictory
brave jetty
We're not bad to the point where we're not viable or anything, but I don't know how you can really claim that we don't have issues
We're 'fine' in that we're viable endgame tanks
chilly brook
I never said we didn’t have issues
frosty wedge
the issue is there are a lot of shity warriors, and our class is harder to play well.
cold dove
^
grim prism
^ Yeah ^
prisma crane
jsut a random poll, what would you rank as top 3 tanks for M+ and then top 3 for raiding, currently
grim prism
^^^^^^
prisma crane
mind you, that's top 50%
grim prism
@prisma crane idk, check youtube 😂
chilly brook
Are we assuming good play?
prisma crane
are you serious?
grim prism
Me? No
prisma crane
why bother including poor play?
chilly brook
Or are we assuming garbage tier play like everyone else does with warrior
prisma crane
since poor play means nothing when talking about content where balance matters
vocal nimbus
Pure progress, monk > warrior = bdk
dark junco
yo Griff its the law of big numbers
prisma crane
i get it, you're amazing at warrior, that's not what i asked
dark junco
You aren’t getting only trash tier into it
chilly brook
Then tbh warrior has many places where it’s better suited to bosses in Uldir than other tanks
dark junco
There’s everyone included
grim prism
Wars seem to be in a very solid spot in raids tbh... granted i havent raided at all this tier, but I hear lots of people having success and I see it in logs
dark junco
Zul?????
lapis pasture
Lul zul
dark junco
Lol
chilly brook
The aoe damage alone on Zul makes them useful
dark junco
Dafuq
prisma crane
of course we're 'solid', all tanks are
chilly brook
And considering 3 tanking seems to be the strat yes Zul
prisma crane
im asking for which tanks people actively look for
brave jetty
I think we have issues that are severe enough to the point where we need dev attention, but yeah sure we're not (and no tank is) so bad to the point where it seriously harms our prospects at just about any level of progression.
prisma crane
top 3
chilly brook
That’s not the same thing @prisma crane
prisma crane
M+ and raids
grim prism
Thats a different question entirely @prisma crane
calm sentinel
Not Prot, @prisma crane
grim prism
And thats the root of the problem
chilly brook
Top 3 and top 3 perception are two different things
grim prism
Community perception does not reflect performabce
brave jetty
Our community perception is certainly much worse than we actually are
prisma crane
if people arent looking for a class, then people wont play a class, and GL convincing anyone to come back until we're actually good enough to warrant a main swap
just look at the shit show alliance is at relative horde in raids
chilly brook
I mean I’ve already changed several peoples minds about prot warrior
grim prism
inb4 75% demo pix
chilly brook
Nah fam
grim prism
Just razzin
chilly brook
I could but I won’t
lapis pasture
If warriors were better than other tanks for certain bosses you'd see warriors swapped in for mythic progression
So clearly BrM has an edge
grim prism
But you wouldnt, because the groupthink momentum has already set in
chilly brook
Tank who doesn’t play warrior even close to optimal says it’s bad coincidentally doesn’t use it for fetid
prisma crane
and method swapped a brew out for a DK
chilly brook
🤔
prisma crane
fwiw on fetid
grim prism
"Nobody" brings prots to prog, therefore nobody sees prots on prog
chilly brook
Brew really isn’t good for fetid
carmine bison
BM monk will always have an edge for physical mitigation because of stagger
chilly brook
Not always
grim prism
It is self-fulfilling
inland silo
M+: 1. DK 2. DH 3. Pally >= Brew
Don’t have an opinion on raid
open bluff
Fetid was designed for brms
prisma crane
isnt good for fetid you say
open bluff
They can purify every other thrash without issue if you're not pushing WF
chilly brook
No I don’t think they are
prisma crane
yet 8 of 10 tanks on first 5 kills were what?
i am aware that WF raiding is different
inland silo
Think warriors are only better than bears in m+. We can do a ton of damage if we aren’t taking a ton of damage. Spending every other gcd on ip kills our damage
prisma crane
but you said 'isnt good'
chilly brook
Play tank that literally is insanely hard to mess up in a world first you don’t say
Surprise
open bluff
Less about messing up and more the kit
chilly brook
It’s a lot more about not messing up than you think
lapis pasture
By saying other tanks have an edge over warrior isn't saying warrior is in the trash can not sure why people get so defensive over this
open bluff
The only way to fuck up Fetid as a brm is to purify too often or not at all
prisma crane
so you're saying that while not being good, you can also mess up a lot, and still get the kill
🤔
chilly brook
That’s the point @open bluff
inland silo
Every tank can survive every fight. It’s what else you bring past that that matters
open bluff
Yet that doesn't make them "not good"
mellow bridge
@prisma crane what's WF raiding
prisma crane
world first
open bluff
It just means you have to learn when it's safe to purify and when not to
chilly brook
Monk literally doesn’t bring anything to the raid other than being easy to heal
It’s not about what else the class offers
carmine bison
and thats not a positive?
open bluff
For the average brm, every other thrash is about as often as you can do so and it's really not that threatening with Bob and Weave
chilly brook
Not saying it isn’t a positive
lapis pasture
Being easy to heal means you cab focus on many other things lmao
chilly brook
What I am saying is for thrash prot is probably the best suited to it
open bluff
Okay, but that still doesn't explain why you think they aren't good for Fetid when the fight was literally designed for them
chilly brook
So you’re speaking out of your ass
green forge
I had a pretty easy time with thrash the other night
prisma crane
worlds largest tank hits are notoriously monk specialty since.. idk, MoP
open bluff
^^^^^
carmine bison
lol yea
final mist
His point is that Monks are notoriously known for and excel at tanking large hits repeatedly, with little to no issue. They're consistent.
chilly brook
It’s that thing I brought up as to why BrM is so popular
As compared to prot
And when you wipe over and over for hours on one boss there is value in that
that is the real reason why sco and other WF race tanks prefered BrM or Druid in their rankings
final mist
And pre-nerf, BRM was the only tank that could consistently handle the amount of damage Fetid was putting out pre-enrage.
Even after the nerf, it's still the most consistent tank by far.
Which is why it's preferred.
That doesn't make us not good.
dark lagoon
and yet there are folks who will say prot is fine and l2p.
chilly brook
It is fine
final mist
Because Prot is fine.
chilly brook
Learn to play
final mist
I told you guys to stop talking to people like that, Griff.
open bluff
Prot is fine and BrM is an outlier that is almost certainly going to get redesigned in 9.0
chilly brook
Excuse me for being ironic
dark lagoon
when they redesign brm add IP to that list.
prisma crane
but that's just it, BrM kit excels for that, always has, BDK and VDH excel in control, and Pally have assloads of utility
chilly brook
BrM isn’t going to get reworked it’s not fundamentally changed since beginning of legion
open bluff
The worst that'll probably happen to them in BFA is become the new demo lock, because we're talking an expansion-level total redesign
Actually it has fundamentally changed
dark lagoon
redesign IP and give it a catchy name like shield barrier.
open bluff
Only it was reworked in 7.2.5
cloud bone
from what i remember without checking ISB couldn't be stacked forever anymore
uncut fractal
what's better for survivability @G'huun HC ? Isn't Rezan more dps oriented?
woeful reef
Just because Prot can do all of the content doesn't necessarily mean it is 'fine'. That is such a snark comment I find. It could use a few tweaks to improve its polish/flow. Every tank can clear all of the content and it is fact that some are more efficient than others, so I guess patch notes should never have updated for any tank because they are all fine.
prisma crane
^
steel turret
Griff’s argument sounds a whole lot like the feral Druid arguments when they’re under tuned.
wild atlas
Haste boosts in general are both DPS and Surv. It increases our throughput to keep our CD’s up more often.
steel turret
“Here play perfectly to reach barely par”
Bwahaha history always repeats, same shit just a different day
chilly brook
You mean to say that if it is able to clear content it isn’t fine? Lololol
What kinda bs is that
prisma crane
yea @uncut fractal haste is our best defensive stat and rezans provides a lot of it. there is a large ilvl discrepancy though, so it'd be rough, it really comes down if you'd prefer an absorb that wont be able to maximize it's CD on or just have your own rotation perform more often via the haste
vocal nimbus
Griff, stop talking for awhile and let this convo die, please
you are fueling everyone here
just let it slide
chilly brook
This convo is actually stupid
If you want to say there are some issues with the feel fine
undone sun
and yet you're egging it on
chilly brook
But don’t sit here and say prot isn’t fine
undone sun
steel turret
It isn’t
prisma crane
no, he's the best warrior here 👌 anyways, i'll stop fueling it
chilly brook
I never claimed to be the best
dark lagoon
is the goal with haste 12 second blocks without into the fray? making block always up? wouldnt having that much haste make bolster useless?
prisma crane
wouldnt always be up at 12 sec
vocal nimbus
You are no police, let people alone
prisma crane
would always be up at 6 sec
vocal nimbus
If someone needs to be shut up sal will appear, or any other valkyr
chilly brook
Let people alone? 🤔
prisma crane
they regenerate stacks concurrently
undone sun
that's also asking if there's a reachable haste cap
dark junco
Is thete?
prisma crane
GCD "cap" is 100%, 100% SB uptime is 167%
final mist
- No, Into the Fray is always better (Punish can be useful theoretically, but never will in practice).
- NO Haste cap.
There's a theoretical Haste cap, but it's unreachable, so no, there isn't one.
undone sun
bolster does reduce the required amount of haste to get that uptime, but it's still not reachable
dark junco
Why are we stacking jaste then? Would be useful to know a breakpoint
undone sun
it's explained in the guide, it's not meant to reach a cap nor breakpoint
final mist
Breakpoints don't exist.
dark junco
Like at 42 should i stop
final mist
Stop asking about them.
prisma crane
you're thinking like a dps
final mist
We've been over this.
undone sun
you still get shorter GCDs and Cooldowns past that
carmine bison
assuming you have the deafening crash trait available on multiple slots, ilvl upgrades on azerite armor is always priority right?
final mist
Even with DC, it is.
It's just there's a minimum ilevel jump to replace DC, rather than any ilevel over the others.
carmine bison
kk i see, thanks
lunar pike
hey, just wondering, in a perfect world, would I want haste/vers on all my gear, or should I be spreading it out among other stats; sorry if this has been asked before :x
prisma crane
haste and either vers or mastery
weak zephyr
Is it a waste to use ignore pain then a shield block?
prisma crane
vers obv helps more with bleed and magic and stuff
prisma crane
no, but SB takes priority in most cases if you have to make a decision
uneven mason
IP + SB = giggle tickle damage from Trash
SB take priority in situations where damage from melee is higher than damage from magic (almost always) IP take priority if the damage is not blockable (DoTs and the like)
sick matrix
The mitigation is more effective after shield block damage reduction though, I would prio SB
weak zephyr
I see. I was like wtf because I use a damage addon called MSBT and whenever I use ignore pain it doesn't show me blocking the damage it just shows it as absorbing it.
uneven mason
IP is an absorb
dusk locust
given shield block doesn't have 100% uptime is it better to ignore pain during the block, or ignore pain during the downtime (if you were given the choice to delay IP a bit since block was going to fall off)
uneven mason
and takes place after, so the final reduction (what shows up in SCT) is absorb
cloud bone
so would IP be more of a priority during phase 2 of Zul, Reborn then? since it's a bleed?
weak zephyr
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh
uneven mason
Kauda you should use IP with SB, and IP without SB
PixelByte no because Zul has Mac Truck level melee
he doesn't have skinny arms
BUt, when you've swapped
you're going to want to lean into IP
weak zephyr
welp
uneven mason
and another CD, probably an external
and prayer
lots of prayer
that DoT fucking sucks
weak zephyr
I guess im an idiot for not using shield block everytime IP was up
dark junco
Xmog artefact separTely when?
uneven mason
Hope your paladins like you
uneven mason
you can BoP the bleed off
get to position and call for it
plan it ahead of time too
repeate it like 100x before the fight starts
because i Have 2 paladins
and I had to fucking yell at them after blowing SW/LS/IPspam Cookie etc to survive the DOT once I was in position, they caught on the 2nd time I called for it
evne though I confirmed with them "Holydin will BoP me first time, Retadin will BoP me 2nd time"
I do not like Green Bleeds and Ham, I do not like them Zul I am
keen bane
is it bad if I pretty much use demo shout every time it's available and I need some rage? I feel like the cd is so short I'm wasting it if I save it for anything
wild atlas
We have 4 paladins so I’m feeling good about it
uneven mason
you're supposed to use DS every time
cloud bone
I practically use it on CD
ember arrow
@keen bane thats about it
uneven mason
Vitch -careful, might get a flipperhanded chip at the wheel of a retadin and they'll BOP you mid raid
keen bane
alright cool thanks
uneven mason
DS uptime is the mark of a professional warrior
@chilly brook
Griff can give you a lot of tips, feel free to ping him repeatedly about his 70% DS uptime.
laters!
chilly brook
Nah fam I'm the "best warrior" clearly I'm just an anomaly and too good @uneven mason
prisma crane
DS uptime is just hitting tclap all the time
cloud bone
how do you check DS uptime in logs it's not showing up under debuffs
cloud bone
gotcha found the switch thanks 😄
prisma crane
yup
keen bane
is it optimal to cast avatar after ds or before?
grim prism
Before
keen bane
but it runs out during the clappening...?
grim prism
Ava > Charge > Demo > TC every other globsl
Doesnt matter, if you pop Ava afterward then it's two globals (almost 3 sec) of you doing literally zero DPS
Which means no aggro
Also, even with "wasting" a global of ava on precast, your demo will still be up while the next one comes off cooldown
Ava > BV in almost all situations imo
The Clappening, i like that
keen bane
hmmm alright
icy coral
there have been no changes to prot since bfa release right?
woeful reef
Nope
grim prism
Nothing documented. Lol
icy coral
when id they say is the balance patch? didnt blizzard say they would balance things before mythic uldir?
grim prism
@keen bane think about it though, if the DC trait extends demo shout on TC, you would want to cast TC immediately after demo.
woeful reef
They had one already, Sept. 11
grim prism
@icy coral already happened as far as im aware
There will likely be more tuning, the way things are going
But dont expect any changes to prot
woeful reef
Any sort of big class changes will be done in a proper patch, like 8.1 for example. The balance passes they are doing now are just passive number tweaks.
icy coral
i didnt have much time to play since bfa release and now i am think about wether to level my tank demon hunter or equip my prot
icy coral
neck catchup will be bad either way
grim prism
Oh fuck yeah
You can literally get 40 sec straight of demo
One guy here logged 76% demo uptime on a raid boss
cloud bone
I've gotten about a min and a half with hero and avatar
woeful reef
lol ^ awesome
grim prism
Yeah its absurd with lust
junior ivy
grim prism
@junior ivy the ones you are using
cloud bone
unstopable force?
keen bane
reminds me of the ill shield block chains I used to get back in WoD
cloud bone
i think that's the name
grim prism
He just had lust/hero for the pull
Unstoppable Force talent plus Deafening Crash trait
cloud bone
Yeah I've seen some crazy long DS times with hero and 5 stack of ITF with haste procs
icy coral
for worldquests there also is a pvp talent you can use in warmode that reduces the cd to 15sec.
cloud bone
well at that point it should be up 100% of the time 😛
cloud bone
you use it and already reduce the cd by 5 sec if your next gcd is IP
undone sun
well rip your wrists
woeful reef
You guys ever have problems capping on rage? Sometimes in M+ when aoe tanking theres just too many revenge procs and IP doesn't always need to be used. I wish there was always something to spend it on to keep the AM talent working.
brave jetty
Shouldn't be capping on Rage
grim prism
@woeful reef yep.. sometimes gotta press IP for no reason except spending rage
brave jetty
Since you can just burn every other GCD on either an IP or Revenge
woeful reef
Yeah I agree, big pulls especially
brave jetty
Like maybe you won't get maximum value out of your IPs every time but you still can spend rage on it, probably better than that capping out at all since that's just pure waste
woeful reef
Casting IP for no reason at all feels bad. But since we're fine no big deal eh? 😛
grim prism
It advances AM, which is more important than probably anything
brave jetty
^
grim prism
But at current tuning, sometimes that feels like the only pirpose
final mist
We're fine in terms of we can push content just fine. No one ever said there weren't problems.
woeful reef
Griff sure sounded like we were perfect
final mist
I have no issues pushing in any sort of content.
pale dagger
I want thunderclap slow back 😡
final mist
There are problems I've had in playing the spec with the way it feels, but that's it.
grim prism
I feel pretty good in M+ honestly. I really enjoy the playstyle. I'd just like a couple tweaks
final mist
There are multiple warriors pushing in high level mythic raiding and M+.
We are capable.
Saying, "We can't push bleeding edge" is just flat out false.
inland silo
Lol
grim prism
Weow
brave jetty
Yeah I feel good in M+ too
mellow bridge
what's a mid level key for you lmao
grim prism
Its getitng a little absurd in here boys
final mist
Dude, I don't know how much clearer I can make this for you
brave jetty
I actually overestimated how badly it felt to heal me when I asked one of my regular healers the other day after some high keys
mild echo
all i push is 
final mist
I literally do all of that
mellow bridge
if you can't tank an +8
final mist
So do others
woeful reef
The only thing I will say to that is that it is possible to be capable and still be lesser than the other tanks, and people don't seem to grasp that concept. You can clear something sure, but if other options make it easier on the group or healer just because we can clear it doesnt mean we are perfect. I just think the attitude of we can do something is such a bubble attitude when you start making direct comparisons. When people say the class is terrible obviously I disagree with that. Its just weaker in some areas than others but still capable.
mellow bridge
ilvl?
brave jetty
He told me that healing me was actually ridiculously easy, the damage was just so steady
final mist
Then you're undergeared.
final mist
But still capable.
mellow bridge
^
final mist
I tanked 10s at like 335
mellow bridge
with the affixes this week
final mist
It's possible
mellow bridge
it shouldnt be a big issue
onyx radish
Having trouble deciding on best trinket combo for survivability. Any thoughts:
mellow bridge
Ngl Jaboomba, the problem here is you not the class
yes it would be easier as a DH or DK
final mist
Then don't say shit like, "Oh it's impossible" and then tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about
mellow bridge
but if you can't tank a +8 properly then youre the problem
final mist
That's just so disrespectful that I have literally no words
grim prism
@onyx radish the highest ilvl ones, in this case
Crit is not bad defensively in M+
And Str adds armor
woeful reef
Sal you also play Prot Pally as well right? If you took both classes to X dungeon at 335 would you say the impact on the group/healer would be identical or would one be clearly better even though both cleared without issue?
rich robin
I’ve tanked 10+s already, and now the guild only wants me to tank them. I’m always being asked to run keys now.
mellow bridge
"the WARRIOR tank, cant TANK any bleeding edge stuff. Thats a huge fucken problem
Well when your pushing mythic bosses and mythic plus you come back to me Sal
go run a mid level key of shrine of the storm
rofl"
yeah when did you say that
idk
grim prism
Ah I thought the eye was 335. To clarify, do eye and syringe imo
It was a pretty dumb quote to be fair
onyx radish
@grim prism yea a 335 eye would have been an easy choice to drop 😛
grim prism
Yeah my B lol
steel mauve
Jokes on you its only 4:36 pm
grim prism
Im gonna tap out before i catch another tempban
final mist
Both would have issues if you didn't play correctly. There have been spots on both where it's been dicey because I played badly. I enjoy Paladin's group utility more, but that's because they have by far the most out of any tank, and a lot of it's really versatile. Warrior takes less damage and does a helluva lot more, though, which is really enjoyable when you're shitting all over your DPS.
grim prism
Later fellas
grim prism
stupid upgrades
Welfome to BfA
shut summit
final mist
Also depends on the dungeon / bosses, shit like the Council boss in Shrine I find much easier / less stressful on my Paladin because of Freedom, but there are other bosses that are much better on the Warrior.
But as an average, they're fairly equal.
cloud bone
The last boss on Temple makes me feel super bad that I can't help heal at all
steel mauve
I usually relate boes that they arent there for bis gear to hold you over to raids, if you ger a better one then great, they did their jobs in allowing you to do content to be able to get those upgrades, thats how i rationalize it at least
final mist
That's another good example, Pixel, since you can LoH the boss.
woeful reef
You could make the argument that other tanks also bring more utility than Warrior too could you not? Just looking at DK you're looking at double taunts for skittish, pull, aoe pull, battle rez, ams, etc. Just seems in terms of utility alone we like Druids are lacking in m+. Again, it can be overcome obviously, but we just rely on group members more than other tanks do for example.
leaden carbon
@onyx radish what did happen to it?
final mist
I haven't really had much issue with Skittish at all.
grim prism
More utility maybe, but we have other strengthd
final mist
We do so much DPS that it's not a problem.
And we do have utility, it's just not as straightforward.
Ex. SR is huge for a bunch of shit, Intim Shout can be useful for interrupts (esp with Menace), etc.
cloud bone
we did get commanding shout back as well which I personally need to get better at using
final mist
NGL, I use CS as a personal
mellow bridge
do you use menace for m+ Sal?
shut summit
Stormbolt 4 lyfe
woeful reef
Ah the Watcher AMA is going on reddit right now
cloud bone
does menace make it so that the fear can't be broken by damage or does it only make it so they don't run away and it last longer?
sick matrix
can still break, but the disorient adds cc time
in a pinch, pretty good 2nd aoe interrupt if mobs can be stunned too
final mist
Typically RE or SB is what I use for M+
sick sentinel
Hope someone gets a solid question in to catch Ion's attention on state of Protection Warrior. 😛
woeful reef
He just answered the "shaman" question and I don't think he did a very good job lol, poor shaman players.
cloud bone
well he also told us that he isn't the person to ask about specific class questions
brave jetty
None of the answers on the broken systems and features of the expansion are encouraging in the least
hollow bear
does anyone have a weak aura for Spawn of Ghuun?
blissful stirrup
Anyone that have or know like the soft cap of the hast right now for prot warrior?
jade wyvern
wut
blissful stirrup
well as it is now i can lose like 200 hast and gain a item with +5 il and like 150 crit and ofc litel strength and armory and so.
steel mauve
the stats on armor pieces are irrelevent, if its +5 ilvls its an upgrade unless it has a socket
only time stats take priority is on same ilvl pieces or rings
blissful stirrup
so the socket count as like + 5 il or ?
neon tangle
well, it isn't specifically calling out prot warrs
but there was a resposne in the AMA about nerfing overtuned azerite pieces
woeful reef
Wonder if DC gets nerfed because of how desirable it is.
woeful reef
A handful are overly powerful, to the point that they stomp out the entire decision space for a spec, and the game becomes about getting a piece with one specific trait. We’ll be fixing the outliers on both ends (probably buffing dozens of weaker traits and nerfing a handful of too-strong ones).
untold adder
that meens "we will do a lot of nerfs"
i REALLY dont think prot war is where they will hit with nerfs right now
pzl
what ring is best of these two?
mellow bridge
a lot of nerfs so azerite stuff feels even worse? lol
literally not gonna feel the impact of most I guess
woeful reef
It's clear this xpac was rushed out the door, lol
undone sun
WoD 2.0
woeful reef
6 months of beta where feedback was largely ignored
woeful reef
So many of these issues were reported
untold adder
they had anywhere near the time to fix all the reports
they probably prioritized it hard.. thats why we see so many spelling errors, they simply didn have time to give a shit
weak zephyr
Oh man on the WoW Discord saying WoD 2.0 will get you omega crucified rn
undone sun
there were still a lot of major bugs that went into live that consisted throughout alpha and beta
untold adder
how much hp do you guys have by now?
blissful stirrup
have like 176k right now
hushed swallow
174k unbuffed
weak zephyr
ilvl 345 sitting at 157.1k no buffs
untold adder
ok
earnest sand
ilvl 341 at about 159 157.4k
blissful stirrup
well im at 349 il and 160k hp unbuff i se now.
plain vapor
@hollow bear https://wago.io/Sk2SO80WX ?
glossy quiver
Anyone want to mic chat about Prot Warrior strats?
lapis ruin
Best strat: reroll [?]
glossy quiver
What makes you think that?
mellow bridge
what do you want to talk about coo
mellow bridge
just ask your questions or start a discussion about what you want to talk about
I'm sure people will join
glossy quiver
I'm in general voice chat if anyone's not too shy to discuss strats
I am Warrior411 on Wowhead
manic sentinel
Sometimes it feels like I'm struggling or forcing the healer to work his ass off in M7 and up
manic sentinel
anyone else get that vibe?
glossy quiver
Join voice chat and I can help
sick matrix
the guides were written pre-patch I think, possibly outdated in some areas
steel mauve
you would be better off reading the icyveins guide over the wowhead guide
icyveins is up to date and written by the warrior peeps in this discord
neon tangle
Anyone in here who wants to change the icy veins article?
"2.5. Armor
Armor reduces Physical damage taken. It is a completely passive and consistent stat, making it quite good for survivability. It does absolutely nothing for damage, however."
missing a word
undone sun
i also don't see it
neon tangle
"It does absolutely nothing for damage, however"
mellow bridge
that's a right sentence
neon tangle
ohhh, I read that as damage reduction
undone sun
also the one who edits that guide is Marok
prisma crane
it does absolutely lots for damage reduction lol
uncut fractal
damn getting curve w/ pugs as prot warrior feels amazing
mellow bridge
gratz
uncut fractal
ty man last phase was interesting with the red shrooms
also i'm not really used to taunt twice once I have aggro and our top dps died from aggroing dark young lol
winter skiff
Im ilvl 350 and i thinj my hp is 167k
glossy quiver
Im ilvl 347 with 182 hp
formal surge
Coo you probably have the 10% stamina talent
prisma crane
yea you dont want indom
lapis ruin
about ilvl/life: 362ilvl 188k
prisma crane
but it's possible to have skewed levels if you have high ilvl in high budget items and low ilvl in lower budgets or trinkets without stam
ilvl and hp is somewhat pointless
formal surge
btw who also thinks that we get flipped off this Addon? Prot feels even more lame than in Legion. Also we are probably the only Tanks without selfheal and low hp...
prisma crane
low hp isnt a problem because of how we mitigate
ppl have been complaining about that since legion
formal surge
ik but it just feels wrong
steel mauve
you dont need self heals when you arent a self heal tank..
tiny sphinx
we were probably at our most powerful in legion since ever
prisma crane
but all tanks in general are lame relative their legion counterparts
steel mauve
we take far less damage than any other tank
formal surge
never said bad but lame
steel mauve
thats our niche
untold adder
wheeeeeelll
formal surge
i miss Gladiator...