mmm...so far my experience on leveling warrior tank i cant help but feel like they would have a much better flow/feel if ignore pain was off the GCD 😦
#protection
limber rivet
sick matrix
need to plan for it (and have the rage at the right time) but yes, it's not available if you see a cast bar and your gcd is pants down
steel mauve
Just causes prot warrior to need a thought process
crimson quiver
Are we the worst m+ tanks atm?
rain bridge
To me it's more of a bummer during rage excess situations (or avatar) where you're wasting rage gen / damage because you need to spend that gcd to dump rage on IP
limber rivet
i dunno its hard to guage so far, im only 50 now grinding dungeons on my dark iron and the low level dungeons are braindead for the most part, i cant tell how its going to be with actual like...mechanics and stuff heh
steel mauve
During avatar it just becomes a rotation
earnest zinc
It just feels wrong for it to be on the GCD
steel mauve
Avatar tclap demo shout tclap ip tclap shield slam tclap ip
mellow bridge
up until +10 at least you can easily do anything
limber rivet
avatar is just stomp and then SS or IP if SS doesnt refresh right?
mellow bridge
only really matters if youre someone who wants to push as high as you can
limber rivet
with unstoppable
rain bridge
Yeah but you end up with SS resets and ragecapped, and it feels like shit
crimson quiver
Just did a 7+ painful, shieldblock uptime blows. And ignore pain feels weak
earnest zinc
Druids it's not a problem because you barely use frenzied regeneration with the huge cooldown.
steel mauve
You basically weave an ability in between each tclap, either shield slam, ip or revenge depending on the proc and situation
earnest zinc
Prot Warrior is bad in M+ and mediocre in raids.
grim prism
LOL
steel mauve
Untrue
limber rivet
im actually wondering why Shield Block even takes Rage, i feel like it messes up things
rain bridge
I had a blast tanking HC devourer though, the spec works wonderfully there
grim prism
Not to default to toxicity, but maybe youre just bad
grim prism
Mediocre definitely has connotations of being below average, and I would say prot had exceeded community expectations in raids
crimson quiver
Expectations of being bad lol
grim prism
And definitely isnt "bad" in M+
rain bridge
That's because we expected to be utter shit ahah
grim prism
Nobody here is going to say its the best tank in the game but it really is not bad right now
mellow bridge
yeah
grim prism
People just play suboptimally and blame the spec for their own shortcomings
rain bridge
I still feel more at ease playing with my bdk in M+ than with my warrior, even with it being 20 ilvl lower
mellow bridge
for any avg player prot warrior can do any content they want
They're only bad for bleeding edge players
frosty wedge
we're not bad - we're just harder to play and people equate that with bad, because not many people play it well.
rain bridge
Prot works, but we don't have the fancy tools that make it agreeable to play / allow you to carry shitters
grim prism
Such as?
rain bridge
Grips, purges, that kind of stuff
grim prism
Different classes bring different things to the table
rain bridge
It's situational, but that's the kind of things that make me not enjoy tanking M+
crimson quiver
^^
limber rivet
id like to formally request that Shield Slam and Pummel switch animations
rain bridge
Our total lack of any interaction with ranged mobs outside of reflecting like 1 cast
old zephyr
LoS is interaction
frosty wedge
I want silence on heroic throw again
crimson quiver
That would be awesome
grim prism
LoSing is a basic M+ skill
rain bridge
Gl LoSing packs when pugging with morons
mellow bridge
that would be too strong
grim prism
Kiting is a basic M+ skill
rain bridge
When half the casters target random players
mellow bridge
Kicks are so important in m+, having one on heroic throw would be ridic lmao
grim prism
Trash mechanics are basic M+ skills
limber rivet
when did Heroic Throw become a spammable ranged Devastate?
frosty wedge
you put a cd on the silence, or on throw
grim prism
Last expac?
steel mauve
I dont think m+ is balanced around pugs
tight spire
^^^
frosty wedge
I"d be ok with throw and pummel sharing a CD or something
crimson quiver
Demon hunters have range kick right?
steel mauve
So losing and kiting ARE basic m+ skills regardless of it being a pug or not
rain bridge
Neither do I, but they're still pushing M+ as the main, easy to run pve content, so you have to expect pugging to enter into the balance at some point
limber rivet
didnt taunting something use to interrupt casts ages ago?
mellow bridge
yeah if throw had an cd it would be okay as a kick
grim prism
Demon hunters also cant facetank for more than a couple seconds without crumpling
mellow bridge
but in it's current state it would be dumb
earnest zinc
The problem is we have Monk and DK dominating raid tanking with Paladin as a somewhat honorable mention and DK and DH are dominating M+ with Monk as a somewhat honorable mention.
grim prism
Prot can have block AND demo on full uptime for 40 sec straight
mellow bridge
"Demon hunters also cant facetank for more than a couple seconds without crumpling"
grim prism
While doing absurd damage
mellow bridge
wut
grim prism
And then kite away
rain bridge
I know we're beasts at facetanking shit, but so are the top tier tanks
The only thing we truly bring that's unique to us is our damage imo
crimson quiver
DH is strong af
grim prism
We just have massive uptime on those cooldowns
earnest zinc
I was outdpsing some of the lower dps last night as prot
crimson quiver
We do crazy multi target dmg
boreal depot
Question:
What % of haste is needed for 100% SB uptime?
crimson quiver
Too much lol
grim prism
Around 160%
rain bridge
Is it even attainable with HR ?
grim prism
Nope
tight spire
prot is INSANE aoe dps, and you can kite and use TC. 12 yard range iirc?
rain bridge
nice talent 
grim prism
8yd without crackle
@rain bridge yeah we have no variety in talents compared to last expac
limber rivet
i discovered that sometimes the increased clap aoe talent is not good in dungeons, tiny rooms in the old dungeons, pulled everything and the boss 😄
little raft
does anyone have vods/links to streamers playing prot? I'm thinking of offspeccing it and would like to see how they play
grim prism
There's pretty much one build thats viable
Yeah I dont use crackle
Most shit you pull comes into melee range anyway
tight spire
yeah tol dagor last week was annoying with all the neutral mobs with sang+necrotic
rain bridge
Good thing (for me) that it's the one closest to what I liked during Legion, but it feels dumb to have basically dead talent rows
rain bridge
I'm no longer playing crackle in tol dagor ahah
earnest zinc
I've found Indomitable useful on Zul for the phase 2 tank debuff
grim prism
Bounding Stride and Safeguard are both better imo
limber rivet
i have to be Thor
earnest zinc
Everything else it's better to use Bolstrr
crimson quiver
Why can’t Devastator just be baked into the spec
limber rivet
wit i have a qustion on the devasta talent at 120
just it just add a passive to you?
it says it replaces Devestate
grim prism
Because we would have empty globals and it would feel even worse
Yes, it increases autoattack damage and gived autos a SS proc chance
crimson quiver
Disagree I really like playing as Devastator
crimson quiver
Yes
limber rivet
ewwww
grim prism
Yes
crimson quiver
It is your auto attach
limber rivet
yeah but what do you do for fill
grim prism
Not worth
grim prism
Nothing, you have empty globals
crimson quiver
No kidding, but I like the rotation better
limber rivet
wow
tight spire
i think the only talent options we really have is the crackle tier
junior igloo
Between Shield Slam, Thunderclap, Revenge, Ignore Pain, Avatar, Demo Shout all on GCD, there isn't that much time left to Devastate in the first place.
crimson quiver
Who misses the original legions Prot Warriors. Felt so good
limber rivet
is demo something i should spam willy nilly or just save for bosses
and large packs
boreal depot
what base haste % should you aim for?
grim prism
@crimson quiver original legion prot war? Like 7.0 dev spam machines?
Yikes
@boreal depot doesnt matter, you always want more
crimson quiver
Dev spam/never die baby
boreal depot
there's no Diminishing Returns %?
crimson quiver
We were beasts
grim prism
Nope @boreal depot
boreal depot
thanks ❤
grim prism
I hated dev spam tbh
The big shield slams were fun
But it was a fucking snoozefest to play
Imo
crimson quiver
I did too but the survivability and shield slams were so cool
grim prism
Mashing an interactionless filler to fish for slam procs tho
Yikes
People think dev is bad NOW?
They have no idea
crimson quiver
And the weaving was neat
dapper copper
I can live with the gcd changes but the TC slow nerf is what really grinds my gears
crimson quiver
It was rough, I hated my Druid tank buddy he could survive anything
grim prism
Devastator/vengeance was so strong at the time that it ALMOST didnt matter
But almost doesnt cut it
rain bridge
I love playing as devastator. If it wasn't on BV line I'd like the spec so much more
rain bridge
I find myself pressing devastate so little that I even forget I have it, and I'd rather keep the free GCDs to cast IP / revenge / whatever
grim prism
Like i said, its about 1 in 8 globals
Its been over a week since ive hit it twice in a row lol
its so infrequent that you notice hitting it twice
crimson quiver
Honestly if they just bake in Devastator and take ip off gcd I think it would make the spec way better. And buff IP enough to make it a good filler between shield blocks
rain bridge
Yeah, in M+ i'm sometimes just not pressing it and focusing on IP value or throwing axes at stuff since it's pretty bad anyway
grim prism
So basically revert to last patch's build 
crimson quiver
Yes!
grim prism
Haha
grim prism
With a slight numbers tune IP could stay on GCD tbh
crimson quiver
That’d be fine it just seems so weak atm
grim prism
If you took IP off global you'd just dev more
rain bridge
I mean, they could always buff it by a fuckton and make it worth being on the gcd, but it's not really interesting :p
grim prism
Even a slight buff would be good
rain bridge
yeah I agree
grim prism
70% absorb or some such
It just feels meaningless to press aside fron anger mgmt sometkmes
rain bridge
But it wouldn't fix the problem of having too few GCDs to do everything during feast periods
rain bridge
Like in M+ you have constant SS resets + free revenges, during avatar it's like "ok my whole bar is available, but I need to IP to not overcap rage"
grim prism
TC every other global is the #1 prio
rain bridge
Yeah some planning is good, but we have some points where it just feels bad
rain bridge
That's what I do, but it still feels really bad to me
grim prism
I like it better than facerolling
rain bridge
I usually end up overcapping rage most of the time
And I dunno, it doesn't feel good doing that
grim prism
Spending IP is critical to advancing anger mgmt... thats where the shitty tuning of IP adds a feelsbad element
But ragecapping is a rotational mistake
So /shrug
jade tartan
Guys, I've changed something in my controls/camera that I cant find it to change it back 😦
When I used to press LEFT Mouse Button and LEFT, the character would rotate left. Now it moves instead of standing on the same place rotating only.
Does anyone know how to fix it ?
grim prism
Its personal pref and obviously you find it semi-enjoyable or we wouknt be discussing it lol
@jade tartan options > keybinds > reset to default
I feel ya though, we could use some tweaks
rain bridge
Yeah but then you waste ss resets :p
I like the aggressive gameplay you can have yeah, as I tank as a default since none of the fuckers in my guilde can be arsed to work on their tank specs at a semi decent level ahah
jade tartan
does that reset my Elvui Keybinds?
crimson quiver
I’m only here because I find it unenjoyable, if I liked it I wouldn’t be mortal striking all expac
grim prism
@jade tartan probably? 😬
jade tartan
k
tight spire
i wish IP stacked higher than 1.3 times
limber rivet
i wish i didnt need a killin gblow to activate victory rush
suddenly warriors are the best healing tanks
hue
limber rivet
are the top raiding guilds all horde or does alliance have anyone
crimson quiver
Did they nerf fetid or how did everyone get passed that?
junior igloo
Yes @crimson quiver
crimson quiver
Honestly is ally
junior igloo
OCE region is Alliance at the high level
limber rivet
ah
just wondered since horde had slight gear advantages early on with the 370 warfront piece vailable
and top end guilsd always go for that min/max
junior igloo
Nah, that has nothing to do with it.
fathom marten
@crimson quiver Well wait fetid didn't get another nerf
@crimson quiver He's been nerfed
@limber rivet Depends on realm because on mine Alliance had the first 370 warfront gear
limber rivet
oh really?
well then
heh
im actually kinda glad i still have like a week to wait for warfront, gives me time to finish this dark iron
so i can take advantage of it
knotty ermine
junior igloo
Basically long time ago (Cataclysm/MoP) the horde racials were a lot stronger for dps (specifically troll and orcs had decent on-use cooldowns that you could stack on top of your regular cooldowns).
Because of that, the very top guilds (such as Method) transferred to horde.
Since then the racials have been balanced and nowadays the faction are pretty much equal.
The problem is that all the guilds who transferred horde back then have no incentive to go back, so they just all stayed horde.
That makes it so that in the top 100 there is bigger raiding scene. More guilds means that players wanting to raid at high level roll horde.
More strong players rolling horde means that new aspiring guilds have better time finding recruits there, so they go horde as well.
It's just a loop that feeds on itself now, but there isn't an in-game advantage as such.
That's why in OCE where Alliance has more high level guild, it's the opposite and Alliance is getting stronger there
limber rivet
the Dark Iron racial is pretty god damn fantastic, I honestly dont know why anyone would ever stay a normal dwarf now unless it was because of class restrictions
also avatar plus fieryblood = large angry burning dwarf
tight spire
the bleed dispel is nice
junior igloo
The single extra 370 piece (actually 0.8 extra piece because Alliance had a 20 % chance for 370 from the extra world boss) is extremely minor concern. You can get 3 guaranteed 370 items from every m+ dungeon that you run, so getting 0.8 more per player is not that big
limber rivet
it dispels everything
its stoneform but with a giant chunk of main stat + extra per effect removed, its nuts
echo vector
how is prot warrior?
rain dune
Is the stat better than 10% physical reduction?
echo vector
i think i got my answer
junior igloo
No special number, just get higher item level (more stats total of any kind)
pulsar grove
Ah okay, ty.
old zephyr
@echo vector prot is awesome
earnest zinc
The best word to describe it is mediocre
echo vector
lol
echo vector
i hate dungeon queues
amber siren
We have our ups and down, very middle of the pack. P much the same as legion.
echo vector
fury just sucks so much
earnest zinc
It's not going to cause you trouble using it if you aren't in a top 100 guild, but I'd pick a Monk or DK for raids and DK or DH for M+.
Just go arms if you want a strong spec
limber rivet
i cant lie, i have a blood DK im leveling in BFA zones at the same time as grinding the dark iron prot warrior and the Blood DK playstyle and graphics are pretty satisfying and handy :/
copper radish
What if you want to do a 2nd tank behind DK tho. Im undecided between Paladin and Warrior. Paladin seems stronger in a lot of ways, but at the same time they are so incredibly boring
earnest zinc
Monk if raiding and DH if key pushing.
limber rivet
like i think Blood DK's have a straight up better version of Last stand dont they?
echo vector
i dont really want to play arms just because it META
earnest zinc
Though always have capped alts
earnest zinc
That way at least one tank is in the meta
limber rivet
ugh please no more dps warrios
echo vector
i picked the 2 worst classes
limber rivet
we are drowning in dps warriors lol
earnest zinc
That's because arms is the only spec we have in the meta
limber rivet
my friend did LFR for giggles last night, had 7 warriors in the raid
limber rivet
nah probably all fury
knowing LFR
lol
everyone loves smashing things with 2 giant weapons
echo vector
yeah, because no fury warrior gets invited to a group for raid or M+
earnest zinc
Arms is the only spec the top 10 guilds allow Warriors to raid as
echo vector
yea
limber rivet
didnt realize it was that bad
my mains an elemental shaman that this game refuses to give gear to
echo vector
everything is fine, just needs a 10-15% damage boost
earnest zinc
Fury will start to be good after a tier or two
They just need the haste from gear to do proper dps.
earnest zinc
Arms doesn't scale well
echo vector
the easiest way to explain it is that other peoples buttons do more damage then our buttons. give us a 10%-15% buff then we can be good
fury
earnest zinc
It will fall behind as Fury replaces it
limber rivet
do dps warriors even have good azerite traits or do they take generic ones like most classes
earnest zinc
It's like 2 or 3 good ones with the rest being garbage
limber rivet
the only good one i saw for prot was the SS extending SB?
echo vector
but they only come up once in a blue moon
i just dont like arms becasue it is the meta
and it cant heal
earnest zinc
Azerite gear needs to be farmable if they aren't going to balance the traits.
earnest zinc
There isn't an azerite trait that extends Shield Block uptime
echo vector
i dont think so
earnest zinc
It's a talent
urban walrus
Thing is, it is kind of farmable people complaining about not having this or that trait have not done ask their m0s each week
earnest zinc
Also that talent is useless since it's on the row with Anger Management
echo vector
i dont like prot warrior becasue you need a healer to do world content or you just die
earnest zinc
AM is one of the few things keeping us from being a meme spec
prisma crane
world content just abuse VR procs
AM is also the only reason rage capping feels extra shitty
urban walrus
'abuse' vr procs, you mean use it when you can?
echo vector
AM?
earnest zinc
Unless the other piece is 30+ ilvls higher, always pick one with DC
urban walrus
Agreed, you only need 1 of the trait to get like 90% of its value compared to other traits
limber rivet
hmm looking at this icy veins guide, prot at least has all of their top azerite traits being spec specific
thats nice
earnest zinc
ONLY pick one though as the duration increase doesn't stack
echo vector
what is AM?
earnest zinc
Anger Management
echo vector
oh
limber rivet
is demo used on like every pull in m+/raid stuff? its hard to gague how things work out at max level right now since im only 50
urban walrus
Don't tell people to only go for 1 of the TC trait, sure it has low defensive impact, but it's still a strong does trait, no?
DPS*
fathom marten
Method got zul down world first
echo vector
i like this discord every other discord is a bunch of ADHD nerds
amber siren
multiple sets of azerite traits
echo vector
Skyhold is cool
urban walrus
Agreed, maybe I'm wrong but I don't like people giving advise without exposing the advice/circumstance
echo vector
lol
urban walrus
Explaining*
limber rivet
how much does SS hit for at 120?
limber perch
theres like a million modifiers for it
limber rivet
just wondering
im 50
give me things to look forward to
tell me of the joys
lol
old zephyr
30k AoE dps
limber rivet
mmmm
urban walrus
If you like seeing a big ST numbers warriors are going to disappoint, aoe is really strong
limber perch
and you best like shouting a lot
feel like that old country guy screaming meme sometimes
stable elm
I expected sword'n'board game play from prot
limber rivet
my lungs are large and impressive
stable elm
Got ground kicking and shouting
copper radish
How is Prot in M+ ?
grim prism
Its okay
copper radish
I see only 3 in the TOP 100 but that doesnt always say everything
steel mauve
And the reason for only one dc trait is because 2 bfi or if are better then more dps from tclap
frosty wedge
nice
amber siren
once DC trait is just for the duration, BFI is for more block rating
frosty wedge
yeah, one DC is all you need for duration
grim prism
Just means that other specs are more optimal for running the highest-of-the-high keys, and also we are underrepresented because community perception
80% of the board is pally and BDK, doesnt make prot bad
steel mauve
Unless you're going for top 100 i wouldnt worry about whats in the top 100, its not a good judge of how a class is
amber siren
I mean, it is an indicator
Playing prot in high M+ is rougher than a DK
but you have to take that at face value
steel mauve
Its not an accurate indicator
grim prism
Its a potentially-accurate-but-easily-skewable indicatior
Again, nobody here will tell you prot is the best tank in the game
But you can easily crush 10s with a competent group
amber siren
If your guild asks for you to tank a 10 on your warrior and you play well you're fine
No one is saying otherwise
grim prism
Which is what 99% of the playerbase should be concerned with, not what the r1 players are doing
stable elm
You still need more knowledge about dungeon than other tanks, dont you? Because you can't react to damage. You prevent it
grim prism
Well yeah
dusk locust
i'd argue that's true
grim prism
But thats a mechanics problem, not a class problem
Imo
A bad BrM will be easier to heal than a bad prot, but theyre both still bad lol
urban walrus
Well is it good class design that when you play averagely you will play worse of you are a warrior
grim prism
People expect 355 ilvl to run a +4 like mechanics dont exist
urban walrus
Doesn't that affect the average player more?
grim prism
I cant even count the number of times I've seen "i'm getting oneshot by X though all my mitigations"
stable elm
Being good or bad is patched by blizzard. Wars got their glory days too
limber rivet
ohhh you mean warriors expecting themsevles to run through
i thought you meant other people expecting warriors
grim prism
Even when we were objectively godtier last expac we still were the redheaded steptanks
stable elm
I mean on community level not personal skill level
urban walrus
It's okay your class is bad now because it was good before? Hmmm
untold adder
im about to get booted from my guild as prot because they literally see every other guild in the world sush prot away and figure that they cant move into mythics with me because "noone else does it" ....
grim prism
Sounds like a great guild
steel mauve
I would leave that guild then
grim prism
Lol
steel mauve
And find a better one who arent close minded idiots
untold adder
took me ages to find a guild accepting prot warrior at all
jeez
whats wrong with people
grim prism
youre not allowed to play the class you want because Sco said it's not as good as paladins
stable elm
As tank I have never ever had problem to create pug on my terms
steel mauve
Shouldnt settle for a shit guild
urban walrus
If you are unable to show that being prot is not an issue for mythic then maybe they are not wrong?
untold adder
we havent started myth
inland mesa
They tried to tell me to go to my brewmaster last night and I was like or we could kill off mother adds faster and not have 5 up and the tank add at 6 stacks?
untold adder
we arent close
grim prism
If you dont get a chance then how can you prove them wrong lol
untold adder
they are just prepping me that i wont be able to come as prot
inland mesa
Unless you're dying...its not a tank issue
untold adder
we do hc now and im sure as fuck aint the problem
grim prism
Prot is better in raids than it is in M+ even
urban walrus
So you can't show them that you are as good as any other track in heroic?
untold adder
i mitigate better than my pala-co tank
grim prism
Your guild sound like a pack of toxic retards tbh
urban walrus
Can you show that
untold adder
i think they try to get into some retarded cutting edge mindset
only wanting brewmasters or some shit
urban walrus
If you can maybe the class is not the issue and they want to boot you for another reason
steel mauve
A cutting edge mind set would be close to hitting mythic, basically this week if not next...
stable elm
They are not actually
grim prism
Implying it makes a difference because the average guild is going to down M Ghuun by outgearing in two months
untold adder
ha yea maybe :p
stable elm
When you organize pug you have plenty of incoming persons
grim prism
Hey @urban walrus do you play prot
stable elm
You can make ridiculous requirements and yet they still met
urban walrus
Yeah quite a bit all 3 specs
limber rivet
🍿
ember arrow
What?
urban walrus
Not sure your point? Hmmmm
ember arrow
Who are you talking about @grim prism
grim prism
Idk just seems a little overly concerned with what players are doing on CE prog when it clearly doesn't apply to your situation at all
Not you @ember arrow
dusk locust
what's y'alls routine on the first boss in tol dagor? it's not clear to me if i should be zipping around to pick up adds
grim prism
@dusk locust it seems kind of necessary on tyran week
At the very least, keep them off the healer
dusk locust
it does, though we had an awkward time of it
can they be baited maybe
they were always spread around
urban walrus
'overly concerned' - if you have a problem stick to PM's can we?
grim prism
DPS should ideally be trying to route them to you
Lol sure bro, PM me all you want
/shrug
dusk locust
is this a "always be stacked unless he's doing upheaval" kind of situation?
sick matrix
I never understood how some guilds try to copy Method and others, as if they have the same skilled people and no other tactics work
grim prism
Idk, sand traps are kind of a bitch so ideally movement should be minimal
I think stacking as much as possible is ideal tho
Beats having to run all over the damn place as a tank, with tyran melees and sand traps to worry about
dusk locust
yeah our main problem i think was that the healer was getting them, but movement was sort of awkward while i went for them
thorny adder
Can't find any good stats weight. Running prot as offspec, and can't sim prot. Anyone got a quick link/tips for me?
grim prism
Are sand traps nature damage?
dusk locust
and grabbing aggro was difficult i imagine because skittish. maybe i should be saving avatar for those
yeah our rogue was able to clear the traps w/ cloak
if i remember right
grim prism
@thorny adder stat prio is in the pinned IV guide. We dont have weights because the SimC module for prot is borked
thorny adder
thank you balsaq!
grim prism
Fortunately we dont need weights because haste is always best secondary
And ilvl is king on armor pieces
Theyd be helpful to have but they arent critical for us
thorny adder
then i know where to check. Just offtanked in uldir yesterday for zul trash adds only because of the insane dmg bonus xD was fun!
pale dagger
Question: is the blockades as good for tanks as fathoms is for dps ?
grim prism
Its better than pretty much every other tank trink in the game
For the second expac in a row
pale dagger
so should i buy it or no ? trying out prot
grim prism
How muchM
pale dagger
30k
stark sage
i'd buy it if you dont have a good stat trinket
grim prism
Yeah, I would
vagrant cape
Is there anything I can do as a normie to help prot sims come online?
grim prism
Do you understand object-oriented programming languages?
vagrant cape
I understand how they work, but I'm not adept at programming
grim prism
Great, apparently neither is anyone else in this community
Source code is on Github
Lol
grim prism
My friend called us the antivaxxer discord
prisma crane
cuz like 10 ppl play it
grim prism
Because we are the only spec without sims and we'd apparently rather insist we are fine without them lol
vagrant cape
Alright, this may actually motivate me to program some shit. I got bored of it because I was sick of making stupid calculators
grim prism
Not that I'm blaming anybody in the community of course
vagrant cape
Time to put my two years of studying computer science to the test
pale dagger
is prot really as bad ass ppl say ?
vagrant cape
No
dusk locust
no
undone sun
@grim prism 🤣
grim prism
vagrant cape
Prot is fine, it's just harder to play. But when it's played well it mitigates the most physical damage and does the most damage
dusk locust
on aoe anyway
sick sentinel
i'm honestly having fun with prot
who needs sims anyway 
cinder bridge
how is everyone feeling in m+ 7-10
grim prism
Prot has a higher skill floor than other tanks and it scares people who are used to the facerolliness of last expac (or new to prot in general)
@cinder bridge pretty great this week
mellow bridge
@cinder bridge I've only done up to 8 so far but pretty well
cinder bridge
I'm feeling squishy but I think I'm playing incorrectly
mellow bridge
will do 9+ tmr
dusk locust
feeling fine in 7-10. some especially dangerous packs to watch out for
vagrant cape
Yes
mellow bridge
Affixes are good for us, not a whole lot of trouble
grim prism
Mine is only 340
mellow bridge
just need to know the important shit
undone sun
just get one off goon, ez
grim prism
Oh more than just that
vagrant cape
Going from a 325 to 345 shield makes you take 6% less damage from blocked attacks.
From the block value alone
grim prism
BiS shield outside of raid, BiS legs, BiS ring, BiS 1H
vagrant cape
Not including str or secondaries
grim prism
Something else in there I'm forgetting
cinder bridge
also the instance is pretty quick and easy
grim prism
AtalDazar is great for us, and honestly probs the easiest dungeon
vagrant cape
DC shoulders are from atal dazar, right?
cinder bridge
but
grim prism
@vagrant cape if they dropped in M+ they would be lolol
vagrant cape
340 shoulders ftw
cinder bridge
but I'm doing SOMETHING wrong
grim prism
Do you have logs or anything
vagrant cape
I got super lucky and got 370 helm from m+ and a 370 chest from the arathi world boss. Both of them are reinforced plating 😢
(yes, I only did a +7 last week. Shut up)
grim prism
Welp, just make sure you are using the talents in the pinned guide, dont use Revenge if it isnt free, and make sure you use CDs properly: avatar before demo shout then TC on cooldown, and dont double up SB with LS
If you do those things properly, you are totally fine in 90% of situations
vagrant cape
That last one is a hard habit to break. SB is just so pressable
grim prism
Sorry for overgeneralized advice but thats all i got lol
grim prism
Yeah, i have a WA to yell at me when I LS and I still press Sb while its running
cinder bridge
do you just 3x sb and then last stand?
grim prism
Pretty much ywah.
cinder bridge
like you just use ls as active mitigation?
grim prism
Exactly
cinder bridge
cause I'm holding on to it like an oshit
grim prism
LS is a rotational filler
dusk locust
yeah ls is active mitigation and not a panic button 99% of the time
grim prism
We dont have an ohshit anymore
vagrant cape
There are no active mitigation checks in bfa, so as long as something is up at all times you're golden
cinder bridge
haven't played prot in a few expansions
untold adder
with bolster you should use LS more liberally
cinder bridge
now that I think about it
grim prism
We have SW, but even that gets used as filler sometimes (keep in mind its barely over a 2m cooldoen with Anger mgmt)
cinder bridge
sb > sb > ls > sb > sb should be fully doable in the hard pulls
untold adder
yes
like fetid devourer hc
you can mitigate almost every single thrash as offtank
grim prism
The biggest thing is maximizing demo uptime with deafening crash trait
untold adder
if you use LS in between full SB cds
grim prism
If you dont have armor with DC on it, spam heroic or low M+ until you get it
cinder bridge
yeah theoretically with shield block up all pull and demo shout you should be taking very smooth damage
digital arrow
Still getting used to using ls for anticipating damage rather than surviving my mistakes lol
vagrant cape
Shield wall is a preemptive "oh shit" button. Like when you see that people fucked up a big interrupt I'm like, "Alright. Time to cool down the spiciness" and shield wall is like cool ranch on a spicy buffalo chicken wing
digital arrow
Lmao
grim prism
Maximizing demo shout uptime makes a bigger difference than anything else imo
cinder bridge
I have DC on chest, helm and shoulders, using only 1 tho
grim prism
Avatar > demo shout > TC every other global without exceptiom
cinder bridge
the thing I'm mostly wondering about is IP usage
grim prism
You will have your next demo ready before the first even expires
cinder bridge
and what do you do every other global during avatar? do we press revenge, spam IP, shield slam?
grim prism
IP is your only consistent spender with how often Rev procs in M+. If you are unsure or having issues, just literally dont rev unless it's free
cinder bridge
do you rev during avatar? wtb globals
cinder bridge
and what the fuck is revenge even, I think I can remove it from my bars lol
*devastate
!!
grim prism
Being above ~80 rage counts as needing to press IP
Whether or not you have it maxed
Because spending rage advances Anger Mgmt
untold adder
yep
cinder bridge
aye
untold adder
gotta abuse anger management
cinder bridge
and how good is azerite veins? guide says very good but haven't gotten a piece with it
untold adder
very gud
grim prism
Its not a gamechanger, it just alleviates one of our weaknesses
untold adder
helm from mother is good
grim prism
Yeah im pretty much only doing MOTHER and not raiding otherwise lo
All our BiS azerite is from dungeons aside from that helm
Ion Reeeeee
cinder bridge
looking only at M+, what traits would you go for? 1 DC, rest block thingy?
fresh tendon
Does azerite veins stack?
reef fulcrum
I just got this weapon from +7waycrest. I can't believe how bad it is.
grim prism
@cinder bridge yes, @fresh tendon i think so, @reef fulcrum rekt
I bet its so big an upgrade you have to equip it too
fresh tendon
Dopeee
ember arrow
Great darkest dungeon reference
cinder bridge
gemhide vs impassiblblelblbe visage?
reef fulcrum
I was using 345 ilvl with extra socket
grim prism
@cinder bridge 
grim prism
I like impassible visage personally but they are both good
Ive used both, albeit neither at high level
cinder bridge
stacking 3 impassive visage + 1-2 azerite veins ... mmm....
grim prism
And IV is nice because you mitgate so much damage while bricktanking that sometimes it heals for more damage than youve actually taken
That being said, gemhide is probably going to scale better in M+
Since its an armor buff that affects all incoming physical damage, as opposed to a one-off heal
cinder bridge
how well does shimmering haven actually work out? haven't tried it yet, my secondaries are all over the place
grim prism
I just got it on a 355 helm and I reallt enjoy it
cinder bridge
I feel there's too much stuff you have to walk out of
grim prism
Not gonna lie, at first I thought I was standing in bad
cinder bridge
haha
grim prism
But I like it
cinder bridge
I'll try it
grim prism
It procs a lot
frosty wedge
omg shmmering haven scared the shit out of me the first like 5 times it proc'd
grim prism
I mean usually when it procs I have way too much going on to give a shit about noticing
cinder bridge
guessing no cause last stand is actually worded like "healing you for that amount"
cinder bridge
I'll try it
grim prism
Its the puddle of blue and yellow spooge that pops up directly under you
summer sequoia
how much time is a 8/8 clear taking you guys to do? normal, if it matters
grim prism
They did a shit job with ground effects in this game... you cant even see half of them on Shrine between wonky color choices and terrain clipping
Just sayin
dusk locust
a lot of our raid progression was trying to figure out how to see the beam on mythrax
cinder bridge
at least they have the bubbles
dusk locust
something about the purple on purple made it hard for me to tell
dusk locust
well not for me
ember arrow
I know since i call it out
upbeat folio
That's kind of how I felt about the crossfire for the last boss of Tol Dagor. While I have my back to that dumb door, it's really hard to see the lines through the 80 frost mage effects.
dusk locust
crossfire i can see reasonably well though i sit in the boss to dodge it anyway
upbeat folio
You can just stand in him and that is a safe zone?
ember arrow
Or leap back after knockback
dusk locust
ya
upbeat folio
nice. ty. that will be easier.
ember arrow
No need to stand against door
chilly brook
Crossfire is ez to see tbh
grim prism
A) you are giving less space for people to spread AoEs and avoid crossfire
B) cannons are telegraphed so far in advance that trying to "cheese them" is pretty absurd
Like... use your eyeballs
grim prism
Thats what I was tokd
ember arrow
They take 20minutes to fire. How would u need to cheese em
grim prism
Exactly lmao
mellow bridge
Yes but moving is still dangerous
and who cares if you cant see anything in the position at the door
you dont need to move
if you stand correctly you dont have to move for the AoE
ember arrow
U can move quite a bit
mellow bridge
and for the crossfire you take 2 steps forward
chilly brook
Moving isn’t dangerous
mellow bridge
it's literally foolproof if you stand properly
ember arrow
Poison ist that punishing
mellow bridge
Sure but why do the mechanics if you dont have to lol
Why have a chance of failure when it's unnecessary
ember arrow
👌
sick sentinel
Typing on the phone is not easy
chilly brook
If you have a chance of failure because you can’t move 5 feet in game you have other issues
uneven mason
TFW you wipe 20 times on HC Zek for that very reason
chilly brook
I feel your pain @uneven mason
sick matrix
400g repairs because nobody interrupts. Seriously, it needs to be a requirement in order queue up for heroic dungeons and not this stupid xxx ilvl
chilly brook
Wiped 20 or so times on Zul last night
ember arrow
@sick matrix while leveling youre not learned to interrupt
uneven mason
"Eyebeams in 9, start spreading"
chilly brook
Heroic Zul to clarify
ember arrow
Thats main issue
dusk locust
rofl same
ember arrow
Ppl not using timers
uneven mason
timers whatever its being fucking called
like we called it at 5
and that wasn't enough
so we started calling it twice
with 9 seconds to go
If I wa
grim prism
They nerfed the dogshit out of heartstopper tbh
uneven mason
was in charge
grim prism
Its barely harder than heroic
uneven mason
there would be no ranged in my Zek kill
dusk locust
i was calling "spread for spheres" like every 10 seconds on mythrax. helped a lot
grim prism
Oooh lag
sick sentinel
On zek caster adds you can have mage poly/warlock fear spam and they never cast
vocal nimbus
No need to tank swap in taloc
chilly brook
@grim prism tbh I’d wish they would nerf Zul’s bleed
@vocal nimbus in Mythic there is....
grim prism
Nah I meant toldagor still lol
vocal nimbus
No
chilly brook
Please explain
grim prism
Me casual, no raid
hot locust
@chilly brook No you can definitely solo tank that fight on mythic.
We definitely didn't need a second tank because we never swapped.
vocal nimbus
The heartstopper doesnt leave any debuff
sick sentinel
You can also solo tank HC mother right?
winter skiff
Yep
vocal nimbus
Ye
grim prism
I was talking about heartstopper venom on last boss of toldagor, i may have accidentally derailed something here
chilly brook
My bad
vocal nimbus
I dont even know if the debuff is called heartstopper in english 😂
I dont even know the exact name in my language 🤔
chilly brook
@grim prism tbh that mechanic is stupid easy anyways
sick sentinel
I was pushing my guild to solo tank the first 2 bosses so I can dps but our other tank is poorly geared as both dps and tank
grim prism
Yeah thats what i was saying lkl
chilly brook
My guild is too scared of the bloods
vocal nimbus
We had to 2tank taloc M in my guild because the party wasnt killing the bloods fast enough 😦
uneven mason
I main tank Taloc - do adds on mother (because Avatar TC is some serious omnomnmo)
chilly brook
And I’m like “I’ll just soak them in D stance”
grim prism
d stance
sick sentinel
@uneven mason same
chilly brook
When you’re the add tank on mother because TC but they send two DHs with you so that you damage is pretty much worthless @uneven mason
uneven mason
I will say the raid damage on Mother HC from crossing the walls, feels undertuned.
Yeah Griff
basically that
vocal nimbus
we pass 20+ people at the same time with link and disc bubble
chilly brook
And you parse a 20
uneven mason
I think since I gota 370 2h this week I'll go Arms for Mother nextweek
vocal nimbus
if i recall correctly future killed mother in the first chamber
hot locust
No way
uneven mason
doubt that
vocal nimbus
Not M
frosty wedge
That's absurd
uneven mason
mebbie 2nd
boreal depot
maybe on Normal
vocal nimbus
HC i mean
chilly brook
We killed mother before she got to third our first time doing it
vocal nimbus
We killed her with 30 people in the second chamber and my guild is horrible
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I’m actually kinda pissed with my guild rn
Damage on Zul was really low tbh
frosty wedge
lol I just turned on the method streama nd saw a brown player frame and got excitied for a sec
but they just brought in an arms warr, lol
vocal nimbus
Spell reflect explosive corruption
ashen flower
Does Brace for impact stack if u have it on several azerite pices?
vocal nimbus
Yes
vocal nimbus
The recommended defensive setup is 1 desfening crash and 2 brace
ashen flower
its aids to find part with deafening
uncut fractal
@vocal nimbus That's the least problem. The melee attacks are killing me
vocal nimbus
Swap at soon as the other tank has taunt
His autoattacks ramp up pretty fast if you dont swap as soon as possible
@uncut fractal
uncut fractal
@vocal nimbus And how do we time it so that I taunt right after boss casts explosive on off tank so he can properly position them
And also taunt at as little stacks at possible
unique salmon
Guildie just gave me a +40STR gem, worth having socketed or just keep my haste gems?
chilly brook
Probably worth having at least one
Haste is technically “better”
But strength is raw armor and AP
uneven mason
55 haste
uneven mason
spend 15minutes fishing
chilly brook
^
uneven mason
make 3 stacks
chilly brook
Or spend an hour and have enough haste food to last you 5 weeks
chilly brook
Lol
unique salmon
@chilly brook thanks homie, also another question. Worth replacing a 310 Haste Versa ring with 340 Crit Mastery? I know rings dont have main stat.
uneven mason
"Where's your food buff" - "I dunno, ask the fucking warlocks who can't even click their own damn portals"
chilly brook
Worth
unique salmon
ty
vivid sage
have to let myself get knocked back and leap back to fetid devourer because my monk cotank can only transcendence half of the shockwaves
feels bad
chilly brook
Even on rings don’t sandbag more than 10 ilvls unless it has a socket then MAYBE sandbag 15 @unique salmon
uneven mason
TFW you get a DH killed because "I don't have a charge man!"
unique salmon
very useful, Ill use that strategy on my prot paladin as well. Thanks!!
uncut fractal
Anyone done G'Huun HC as Prot? After all my SB stacks are out, I need to wall else boss 4 shots me
vivid sage
i killed so many dh's last night
uncut fractal
what's best rotation ? SB LS SB?
vivid sage
SB SB LS ?
vivid sage
recharge SB stacks
uncut fractal
and when do I use it so I dont waste SB while he's casting or whatever
chilly brook
There’s like one global or so between that second SB falling off and the third coming up
uncut fractal
whens best time
vocal nimbus
We tanked kiting him in a circle around the inner arena walls
That allowed us to leave the explosive on the stop
Or a few steps on the side
uneven mason
So, hit SB after he gets 1 stack, it'll last the remaining 3, before you take him, get a full IP up, you'll have a 8 second break before taunting again. you should always have a SB read yfor the 2nd - 4th hits
uncut fractal
so I dont SB early, I SB after 2 stacks or so
it's like kings rest last boss mechanic
where he deals more at the end?
also lets assume I never use IP. Do I blame healers if I die through SB?
Like can I use only SB if I dont have enough energy
and should I survive
vivid sage
you should have more than enough rage to use IP and SB
are you casting revenge without the proc?
uncut fractal
no but I think I used more TC than Shield slam
and it gives less rage
do i always slam > tc when both are up
?
vocal nimbus
On ST yes
vocal nimbus
Not really
uncut fractal
also is demo considered a CD? Should I not use it in combo with LS?
so I can have as much survivablity as possible
vocal nimbus
You ll need 2 or even 3 DC for TC to hit harder than SS
uneven mason
LS is a double CD more or less its a 30% HP Boost and 100% block for 15 s
frosty wedge
you should have DS up as much as humanly possible
uneven mason
Soulwalker - TC hits harder than SS with 1 DC
vivid sage
and it gives you longer demo uptime
uneven mason
not much
vivid sage
the more you hit it
uneven mason
but it does
vivid sage
which is dmg increase
uneven mason
also, you prioritize TC because of DS uptime
vocal nimbus
With just 1 ? 🤔
uncut fractal
is there like a big weakaura icon of shield slam when its off cd?
so i can always spam it lol
uneven mason
yeha, its marginally harder hitting
uncut fractal
is gear fine for g'huun hc? if I die it's my fault right?
mellow bridge
ya for sure
dusk locust
hm i thought we took haste gems over strength ones.. i need to look at the guide again
dusk locust
that 40 strength gem should be a haste then yeah?
uncut fractal
can tanks stack at G'huun?
hushed swallow
On normal sure. On Heroic and Mythic, you need to keep 5 yards for Wave of Corruption
uneven mason
We tank him on opposite sides as long as DPS are not REEEEEEEE its not a problem
dusk locust
does he parry
manic vapor
hey. i want to try out warrior for m+ but I heared its the weakest spec. Why is that? And a lot of ppl recommended taking devastator although icy veins and wowhead advise against it. Anyone knows why ppl think that?
uncut fractal
@uneven mason is taunting at 5 stacks optimal in order to properly place the explosive corruption?
taunting as often as possible seems like a clusterfuck
uneven mason
it happens between the 8th and 9th stack
mellow bridge
@manic vapor who advices devastator
uneven mason
and its a fast pace
uneven mason
BV is insane for M+
taking devastator is a HREEEEEEEE
its a RPS and survivability loss
BV is a massive DPS gain in AE
and RPS gain in all situations
Devastator is a 8%~ increase in ST DPS
manic vapor
preach used it in one or his vids. and my guild mates advised me to take it. I just thought since I dont have many gcds free to cast devastate it does not sound too bad
uneven mason
🤢
preach
So to answer - Warriors are not the weakest
We're the hardest to play properly
and there are a lot of really, really, really, bad warriors out there
which gives the impression that warriors are bad.
mellow bridge
Preach doesnt advice it
gaunt moat
which are the 2bis trinkets atm, so hard to know since I can't sim anything and all sites just recommend 10different trinkets
uneven mason
Blockades + highest ilvl statstick
Rezan's and Howl are BiS
for stat sticks
all the raw tanking trinkets are dumpster fires
grim prism
Howler is a semi-decent damage reduction on use
brave jetty
I don't know of any credible sources recommending Devastator, Booming Voice is pretty uniformly considered the only real option in that tier
Maaaaaybe a case can be made for Vengeance in certain content
grim prism
Rezan is about as good as procs get, but procs kind of suck defensively
Because you have no control
-1 for vengeance, it is weaker than last expac
brave jetty
I got a good Rezan's last night with a socket 😄
grim prism
All it is is a DPS increase over baseline, no survivability
And iirc it costs more rage to weave than just casting IP. It was broken down in the guide
Ive been getting 360+ downgrades left and right from spamming AD keys, while I sit on 340 wep and shield
steel mauve
St devestator i think is a dps increase, but imo you lose too much not taking bv regardless of situation
grim prism
Devastator is ONLY a dps increase in PURE st
But yeah you are correct
Still a surv loss in any context too
steel mauve
Bv is just too good, and woth devestator its only a rage gain IF you can make use of more shield slam procs to gain more rage, which implies not hitting other abilities you may have to use at certain times, which is almost impossible as the procs will over write themselves or you hit ss instead of a tclap or ip when you actually need it
uncut fractal
i had no idea why i was taking that much from dark young
then i realised i was staying in dark bargain
surreal maple
We defo need some variety on the talent "choices"
brave jetty
Honestly I wouldn't mind a nerf to Anger Management if we got decent options elsewhere
It's so good it's oppressive to the entire talent tree
strong hill
Blasphemy!
gentle rain
Isnt true prot already has a rough time?
brave jetty
If they could make it so Deafening Crash also wasn't so essential, I'd appreciate that too