god i wish i could eggplant react to that one
#protection
next goblet
uneven mason
use revenge - increases your survivability curve more than wasting 70% Of an IP
chilly brook
Wasting 80 rage on a 1.3x IP instead of spending the 80 rage on 2 separate IP’s for 2x the mitigation instead of 1.3x 🤔
cinder nova
I'm almost never using a procc'd revenge.
chilly brook
How do you explain those mental gymnastics
cinder nova
More of my revenges are procc'd than not if I had to guess.
fathom marten
Most of the damage your taking in a long time duriation is mostly physical
cinder nova
And if I have block already rolling why the fuck would I hit it twice.
What kind of dump is that.
chilly brook
You got any of them sweet logs that I can look at?
uneven mason
So far what I've gathered from this exchange is, that swole got his warrior to 111 and tanked a single dungeon, didn't understand how to play it, and came here to complain about IP being on the GCD.
cinder nova
Hyes, 111
Except I wasn't the one complaining about it being on GCD
Only pointing out that it stacks.
Ikari seeing red.
uneven mason
MY god he does spam IP
chilly brook
When you forget how useless mobile logs are
uneven mason
I can see why you'd think it sucks if you're casting it back to back like that
chilly brook
I mean tbh IP does kinda suck in the thought that it’s gone so quickly
But stacking IP currently doesn’t come close to solving that
final mist
Reminder to be helpful / discuss nicely and not insulting / toxic while you do so.
manic sentinel
When y'all say it's worth 25 iLvls if using DC properly, are you saying spamming TC during Avatar or..? I didnt see anything on icy-veins about that (may have missed it).
Sorry for all the questions. Just trying to learn a bit more, my friend tells me I'm like paper compared to our demon hunter tank in raid
final mist
TC on CD during Avatar, yes.
cinder nova
Should be able to fill every other GCD with something as well.
chilly brook
I mean it’s not being toxic to say back to back IP casts are wasted rage
uneven mason
so Edri the goal of having DC (using it optimally) is to extend Demo shout as much as possible
fathom marten
@uneven mason idk his SB uptime and up is on par with others I've seen damage mit as well
final mist
That wasn't what I was referring to Griff.
uneven mason
Yeah, its just the back to back IP GCDs that boggle me, but all in all, he isn't hurting himself with them there
He means my snark Griff
chilly brook
@fathom marten mitigation comes down to whether you’re using your CD’s and SB well
final mist
"So far what I've gathered from this exchange is, that swole got his warrior to 111 and tanked a single dungeon, didn't understand how to play it, and came here to complain about IP being on the GCD."
This shit is toxic. I don't want it here.
cinder nova
You do realize how fast it falls off actively tanking right? Even under block.
uneven mason
I'm just frustraited because Sal outlawed 🐻
cinder nova
Especially on Zek where I'm trying to stack it so I don't take a spike between the combo since they wont let me solo it
uncut fractal
Guys does Rezan works well with Prot? Considering Blockades shuffles based on Haste
fathom marten
@chilly brook of course but I'm not seeing that big of a discrepancy between him and other tank logs that much. Dmg % mit is the same
undone sun
rezans is very good for prot
final mist
Rezan's is very good, one of the best trinkets for us.
uncut fractal
Damn cool! Got a 340 w/ socket
cinder nova
Wish my only eye wasn't heroic.
fathom marten
Someone post there heroic Zek log
uneven mason
Wish DPS trinkets were not on the protection loot table
manic sentinel
Ok, I guess maximizing DC usage that way and utilizing spell reflect, yall dont have trouble staying up on heroic vectis?
cinder nova
No, as long as you don't get many if any stacks of the debuff you should be fine.
final mist
I haven't had any trouble off Zek at all.
cinder nova
Unless your group wants you to, then you're up the creek with it.
uncut fractal
I dont even have spell reflect on action bar and I'm 6/8 HC
chilly brook
I don’t have any trouble with Zek either
uncut fractal
Do you use it ever?
final mist
All the time.
chilly brook
However unfortunately raiding isn’t a 1 man event
uneven mason
20%~
undone sun
hmmm
final mist
It's magic mitigation if it doesn't Reflect, which isn't often in raids.
chilly brook
I thought it was 25%?
uneven mason
O?
undone sun
it's 20%
uneven mason
its 20, was 15 in beta
chilly brook
Ah nah you right
cinder nova
Good they buffed it.
uneven mason
I'd accept 15 if it lasted 5 seconds or if they removed the disappear on reflect
fathom marten
@chilly brook your IP count is higher then his
uncut fractal
And how do you know what you can reflect and what not?
undone sun
pins
chilly brook
My damage taken is lower
final mist
There's a sheet in the pins.
chilly brook
And we’re not talking about how many times you cast it @fathom marten
uncut fractal
Block Tracker?
final mist
Griff, the one you linked of yours is normal, his is heroic.
uneven mason
which for bosses
uncut fractal
Oh nice
uneven mason
is explosive on G'huun
final mist
Of course your damage taken is lower.
uneven mason
which enables both tanks to clear stacks
fathom marten
Then what are you talking about then with ip?
chilly brook
There you are
uneven mason
wasting rage to stack it
uncut fractal
So Spell Reflect is only useful for Mother & G'Huun
chilly brook
@fathom marten that casting back to back simply to stack it is a waste
uncut fractal
Why do I bother
uneven mason
back to back GCDs when its still up.
chilly brook
There @final mist
chilly brook
Like I said take your pick of wipe
undone sun
not using a key part of the toolkit is terrible play
chilly brook
SR is great on Zek
uneven mason
Because Rhastalord - on G'huun you need to use it so you don't get moldy balls and wipe your raid
uncut fractal
Ok so if there's nothing to reflect do I just use it on cd?
final mist
Even if it doesn't reflect, it's still flat damage reduction against magic damage.
uneven mason
on Zek you're coming out of that combo taking massive damage with a 100% healing debuff, adds might decide to eat you alive before the debuff falls.
final mist
No.
undone sun
wat
final mist
Using it when there's no magic damage going out is useless.
Think ahead, think about when you're going to take magic damage and use it there.
uncut fractal
Oh I see
chilly brook
Know the fight and use when useful
uncut fractal
so it's only useless against physical damage
undone sun
Spell reflect has 2 functions
- it can reflect an ability back to the caster for full damage
- is 20% Damage reduction if it doesn't reflect completely
final mist
Ex. The Cudgel on Taloc is magic. Use it there.
uneven mason
on Myth his melee is already trucking you, you'll want to reduce the damage from his blast as much as possible (because he's about to take off 20% Of your maximum health)
uneven mason
He might just not know the situationals where its handy
like, it was a frequently ignored ability in Legion as well
final mist
Believe it or not Griff, not everyone is as good as you. Which goes back to that whole toxic / insulting thing I just mentioned.
chilly brook
No I just can’t read
final mist
Correct.
undone sun
correct
chilly brook
Nah I’ll take responsibility for that one
uneven mason
Right
chilly brook
It’s morning and I can’t read
uneven mason
Except for situations where the melee hits are augmented (is there a shadow/nature damage buff on attacks?)
chilly brook
I thought he typed “so it’s only useful for physical damage”
🤦🏻♂️
Feel free to kill me
uncut fractal
So even if a boss has nothing reflectable but it has magic abilities, I should still use it
I get it now 😛
undone sun
yup, if the damage intake is magic
use spell reflect
uneven mason
Yeah, any sort of non physical damage it'll reduce
manic sentinel
Are all the percentage damage reduction s additive?
fleet ridge
@uneven mason If the boss melees you; but his attack has a nature effect, or is nature damage, is that 100% considered a magic attack; or is it a physical attack as well because it's a "melee" swing?
chilly brook
Should
undone sun
yes
uncut fractal
oh wow
undone sun
@manic sentinel no, multiplicative
uncut fractal
That's crucial for Zul in p2
fathom marten
So you cast 62 IPs and not one time you casted back to back because the damage you were taking was magical consecutively ? @chilly brook
undone sun
but that's negligible
chilly brook
No because I have better things to cast than IP back to back
uneven mason
its extremely handy on Vectis
chilly brook
Even if that were the case
uneven mason
Its a physical attack with a magic component
@fleet ridge SR would reduce or reflect, the magic portion while block would reduce the physical part
fleet ridge
So does that mean you can block AND Spell reflect some of the damage?
uneven mason
yeah, trying to remember if any of the current content has bosses like that.
fleet ridge
oh wow got it
undone sun
Hounds
fleet ridge
i wonder; if it blocks the physical first, then magical apply after?
undone sun
in Antorus, you could block the tank hits while also reducing it with SR
fleet ridge
that way; if you critical block, the attack; the amount of damage from the magical component would be % decreased by the blocked amount?
uneven mason
Yeah, Hounds SR was boss level DR
chilly brook
For the most part your other mitigation is far more important than IP @fathom marten
uneven mason
Its why warriors could tank them and not even feel the damage while other tanks would get chunked at points
chilly brook
A back to back IP cast takes up 80 rage
uneven mason
we basically could block and refelct their damage then have IP eat the rest
fathom marten
@chilly brook i completley understand that but i think you're just being stubborn here. If magical damage is being given out and you already have demo out and SR up or on cd, the left over rage can absolutely cast IP back to back .
chilly brook
Leaving you with less than enough to cast a SB if you were rage capped
fleet ridge
What are you doing when you cast LS? Are you just rage dumping revenges then? Since you don't have to cast (or shouldn't) cast SB
chilly brook
How often do you sit at 80 rage?
@fleet ridge either IP if it’s low or gone or if it’s still reasonably fresh sit on the rage or if it’s not gonna disappear anytime soon the odd revenge to keep from capping
fleet ridge
Ok
fathom marten
I'm not saying often but I'm saying there are certainly situations where I've hit IP twice because I'm taking magic damage( so ip is getting weaker ) and have casted it again after demo because im continually taking magic damage
uneven mason
You'll cast IP as needed Reach, but we're not even talking about total # of casts its the waste of rage, its not like our bar fills up so fast that we're going to cap back up immediatly after casting IP (unless you hit DS) so I can't logically see any situation where you actually are forced to stack IP On itself and waste basically 28 rage
chilly brook
Here’s the thing @fathom marten if we’re being honest here in heroic an extra gcd between casts can be the difference between wasting a majority of the second IP or getting the full effect, which literally doubles the effectiveness of the rage just spent
uneven mason
back to back GCDs with IP - is not a logical outcome of real practice tanking situations.
chilly brook
^
fleet ridge
@uneven mason Got it- I just haven't tanked enough yet to get into that situation. Thanks for the help
uneven mason
No one has tanked enough to get into that situation
chilly brook
IP serves a completely different function
uneven mason
Its something that you force, its not a situation that actually happens
fleet ridge
Makes sense
uneven mason
I mean, I can see ways to justify it (The AM interaction being a strong one)
but that means you spent 80 rage in 1.5s
chilly brook
Sure
chilly brook
But with how AM works you don’t lose out on it’s effect if you wait an extra 3 seconds
fathom marten
That doesn't sound right. Intentionally stacking IP without the context of the situation is bad. Like I said if you have demo on CD and already hit sr it's logical to hit IP again since it was probably about to wars off since the initial cast
chilly brook
We’re not passively losing rage if we don’t use it as long as we don’t cap
@fathom marten I mean the guy said that stacking was worth
His logs also seem to indicate a few back to back casts
uneven mason
I Mean it could come down to just having an entire IP eaten off, and having the resources to hit it again - but if the buff is still active (which is what we're harping on) than it is an intentional waste of rage and does not assist with AM scaling at all.
chilly brook
^
prisma night
if only ip scaled more than 1.3x
uneven mason
There is a reason why I have the IP tracker "blink" when I won't overcap it
if only IP scaled more than 1.3x
Legion IP
f
ALthough, legion IP would suck balls with how we're set up now lol
unless it maintained the 90% absorb
prisma night
whats that WA ikari?
uneven mason
I use Marok's but modified it a bit
prisma night
ah
fathom marten
Well i didn't notice we were talking about overcapping. I'm talking about active situation when you are taking spell damage. So likely ip is being drained and you need to cast IP more often then you would normally.
chilly brook
At the end of the day is it being anal about it? Yes but we’re also the tank class that has to be anal if you want to actually get rid of the negative stigma
uneven mason
so I don't hit SB during it
Right Thrav, but that wasn't what we were against 😛 we were against wasting 28 rage
just to get a 1.3x IP up
fathom marten
Fair enough, I digress.....
uneven mason
Its on par with an arms warrior who hits Mortal Strike sub 20%
"why - because you could???"
grim prism
Because its a healing debuff 😅
static pilot
Er... I thought MS did more damage than execute now?
grim prism
Execute scales with rage spent on arms
If im not mistaken
But i only arena in arms so idk. I just faceroll my keyboard and it works because arms is broken
chilly brook
Afaik it’s still OP>Execute pretty much only in execute phase
UNLESS two stacks of OP and EP
But why would you be running EP anyways
grim prism
Because its your only az trait available, because bliz shadownerfed weekly caches to offset the fact that they had to make az tradeable
static pilot
Execute
 Skullsplitter if < 60 rage
 Colossus Smash
 Bladestorm when < 30 rage*
 Slam with  Crushing Assault proc
 Mortal Strike with 2 stacks of Overpower, and either Dreadnaught talented or 2 stacks of Executioner's Precision
 Overpower
 Execute
chilly brook
Anyways it was definitely a feelsgood moment when your entire random pug party is praising prot warrior because of your performance
grim prism
Feelsgood not being fortified anymore lolol
static pilot
Wowhead's arms execute rotation ^
grim prism
AFK some +6s
chilly brook
Literally our DH DPS: “you’re the first prot warrior I’ve seen that hasn’t died as soon as they charge in”
Btw Skittish actually isn’t all that bad surprisingly
grim prism
Last week I had a guy outright tell me I was the first prot war he's seen
chilly brook
The DH was going ham and I was still holding aggro
static pilot
That's... Not really praising Prot warriors. That's dumping on Prot warriors and praising you personally
grim prism
I only get into groups that already have wars in them. Otherwise my 352 ilvl isnt good enough to clear you +4 bigdicksonly key 
The discrimination is real
chilly brook
Plus they were all gawking over prots damage output
fathom marten
Lmao
fathom marten
There's actively lfg posts of, not taking prot wars.
fleet ridge
Griff - What is that damage meter of?
fleet ridge
Got it
fathom marten
Kinda weird. My number are diff
Like, never seen 62k. I've seen like 33k.
I mean in like any class
grim prism
I keep damage done and damage taken open while I run
So when people blame me for taking damage
I can be like "YOU DIED TO WILDFIRE IDIOT, KICK THE CASTERS"
chilly brook
I was a sad boi because it was 80k before everything started to die
exotic spoke
I agree Griff. Skittish wasn't bad when I tried it yesterday. Don't think I had an issue at all.
chilly brook
It was a little bit of a struggle if I didn’t have Avatar up at the start of a pull but it was manageable just had to be proactive with my primary target
dusk locust
if you don't have avatar for a trash pull do you hit a cooldown like shield wall and burn a bit of rage on revenge?
chilly brook
Meh
dusk locust
for aggro purposes
grim prism
Speaking of primary targets, is it just me or did they re-break tab targeting?
chilly brook
TBH I seem to get free revenges enough in dungeons that I don’t need to spend rage on it often
dusk locust
i find that without avatar i'll run in and TC, then all i really have is shield slam or devestate if i'm not going to spend on revenge
chilly brook
I just charge in like normal and see what happens and adjust accordingly
dusk locust
and i don't have TC for another 2 gcds which can be an issue
fathom marten
See I thought there was a tab targeting issue
Sometimes I'd tab target a mob like 400 yards away
grim prism
But on a trashpull you would prob get a free rev proc pretty damn quick @dusk locust, so its not that bad in practice
dusk locust
sometimes. it might, say, be a pack with a few casters
grim prism
Between charge, demo, TC, and the first few melees, you would have rage to SB then rev anyway
dusk locust
yeah
grim prism
Yeah thats fair, there is a lot of caster trash these days
dusk locust
i think i need to store up rage better between pulls
especially if avatar won't be ready
grim prism
I like to float around 60% between pulls
grim prism
Also idk about you guys, but in fights that have RP, i intercept allies and TC on cooldown to buikd rage
fathom marten
They're getting old
tawny lantern
And they used a protection war to kill it?
dusk locust
lol that's smart balsaq i should be doing that
fathom marten
Lol probably not
grim prism
It doesnt fall off during RP, since youre still in combat
dusk locust
i need to intercept more as a rage builder when i have the opportunity
chilly brook
Thrav you were saying you’ve never seen DPS numbers like that I bet you’ve never seen Demoralizing Shout uptime like this either
limber perch
has anyone spotted a prot war in mythic uldir yet?
chilly brook
There are already logs up I believe for Mythic war @limber perch
@grim prism fam I’m a warrior always flex
grim prism
Preach
elfin arrow
Watching a prot warrior right now in Uldir, think it's normal
fathom marten
Wtf
elfin arrow
quickybaby on twitch
fathom marten
It says they used one tank for vect
sick sentinel
Prolly normal
fathom marten
Lol no @chilly brook I haven't 😂
misty garnet
askmrrobot sims tell me to enchant vers but guides on wowhead and icyveins say to enchant haste
thoughts?
fathom marten
To be fair, I just fixed my logging ;( so idk how mine looks
exotic spoke
Quickybaby is a WoT streamer usually
grim prism
@misty garnet dont use AMR at all
SimC would be the way to go, but the prot module is broken atm
So unfortunately all we have is the stat priority in the pinned icyveins guide
But yeah, AMR is awful for tank sims. They use some proprietary metric that makes no sense whatsoever
sick sentinel
@dusk locust I intercept my party member for free rage, and leap into the trash pack for small initial aoe, tclap, + sb/ss, plenty left for a revenge before or after shield slam.
chilly brook
When you parse like a 20 as a prot warrior on heroic mother because your raid decides that since you do so much aoe you should be the tank that goes over but they also send 2 DH’s with you so that you literally don’t get to do anything more than 3 gcds
grim prism
I'd enchant haste, to answer your question directly
misty garnet
@grim prism yeah all their azerite pieces are completely wrong
sick sentinel
Demo always as needed w/ or w/o ava
dusk locust
LOL griff i'm the prot war and raid lead and i did that to myself
final mist
I get sent over with a DH and two Arms Warriors
fathom marten
So method is using combo brewmaster
dusk locust
i bring two DHs with me
final mist
Literally can't even hit them once
dusk locust
yeah
fathom marten
Besides one fight with a bdk
grim prism
The IV guide was written by officers here and was updated just this week, id im not mistaken
tawny lantern
Are u guys raiding in heroic? Hows protection war doing? Im not doing so good i die a lot more than the other tank (monk)
uneven mason
I pointed out that the DPS are capable of killing the adds themselves, and MOther can be solo tanked
chilly brook
Both our tanks are litty though
grim prism
@tawny lantern got logs?
dusk locust
protection warrior performs well if you play it right. there's a learning curve
chilly brook
Knocked out all of normal and up to Zek on heroic last night and we both parsed orange pretty much every fight except for that mother one for me 😭
fathom marten
@uneven mason What about the stackable debuff you get on vect ?
grim prism
Prot is less forgiving to new players but has a higher skillcap. Ideally you'll be taking MUCH less damage than other tanks
fathom marten
How is that monk just cheesing it without the tank swap?
uneven mason
Uh, because they can phase him
tawny lantern
Here are my logs from last week https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yhMtL8XpvF4xC6D7#fight=14
uneven mason
debuff falls off, its easier to tunnel heal a single tank since you create more debuffs by tank swapping on Vectis
fathom marten
Wait youre saying they are phasing him before the debuff stacks to much
That's pretty badaaa
Badass
grim prism
Well right off the bat, you could be using defensive CDs more often
chilly brook
The monk can also pop into zen med after he phases to stop the damage pretty much
uneven mason
they probably mathed out their healers througput is higher than the post stagger ticks the monk will take
grim prism
You should use LS to fill gaps in shield block uptime. It looks like you were trying to do that, but you could definitely use LS more often than you did
Do you have deafening crash as an az trait?
chilly brook
Use SW often 😉
grim prism
If so your demo shout uptime needs to be much higher. Focus on using avatar simultaneously with demo shout to extend it to the max with TC
tawny lantern
Yes i do, its my demo uptime low?
grim prism
Yeah
Griff posted a screencap of 75% demo shout uptime a little bit above in this channel
You should be at least above 50%
Think of avatar as a tool to extend demo shout, not an offensive cooldown
The CD is exactly double demo, so you should extend every other demo
uneven mason
which means you should only have about 24seconds between large DS windows
grim prism
You should have demo up for like 40 sec at a time with the DC trait
Fill the gap with other CDs if needed
tawny lantern
Cool, ill focus on that. Thanks.
chilly brook
So just curious how long do you all think it’ll be before Block gets nerfed?
tawny lantern
I should aim for a 100% uptime on a mitigation cd all the time? Its that posible?
elfin arrow
Is IP worth the rage you spend on it?
grim prism
And dont bother spending rage on revenge at all if you feel squishy. Only cast the free ones and only if you have a free global
chilly brook
A 355 ilvl Shield gives you 40% mitigation on an evenly leveled enemy
Can’t imagine a 385
grim prism
@elfin arrow yeah, even if you are overflowing your IP cap it is advancing anger management
Which is arguably more important
chilly brook
And even further can’t imagine a 430 Shield next tier
shell night
dont think they will nerf block, unless they dial back the magic damage first
tawny lantern
Do protection war scales a lot with a 370 shield from a 340?
grim prism
Oh fuch yeah
chilly brook
Hell yea
real rover
is there a 'general' pawn string for prot to quickly judge an item whether it's worth to look at it being an improvement?
grim prism
Block is our most scalable defensive trait
chilly brook
Shield is by far our most important item
grim prism
@real rover nope
chilly brook
And here I am bonus rolling for a weapon instead of a shield :kappa
Gotta get them parses amirite 🙃
grim prism
If its an armor piece and its an ilvl upgrade, its almost certainly a survivability gain
chilly brook
In my defense though, I don’t know if we’ll get g’huun this week so I thought it’d be a better use for that token on a weapon but hey I got it!
370 axe from fetid
sick sentinel
Cloaks and rings(secondary stats depending)
limber perch
right
chilly brook
So here’s a question
grim prism
Idk about you guys but i'm farming the hell out of ataldazar
Five pieces of Haste over Vers/Mast
chilly brook
Did the extra item at the end of dungeons apply to legion m+?
uncut fractal
fetid on normal has knockback?
chilly brook
For the sign of the warrior or w/e
Because it’s certainly not applying to m+ in BFA
grim prism
Who knows dude...
grim prism
Even if its been blueposted its probably not accurate
I think 3 is the max you can get from one run
But im not sure
real rover
so I can ignore this pawn string from noxxic? ( Pawn: v1: "PvE-Warrior-Protection-Noxxic": Class=Warrior, Spec=3, Strength=9.07, MasteryRating=6.07, Stamina=12.07, HasteRating=7.57, CritRating=3.07, Versatility=5.77) OsSloth
chilly brook
Yea the blues don’t seem to know anything either
valid gorge
You can ignore pretty much everything from noxxic
grim prism
@real rover yes, dont use pawn for prot war
fierce juniper
@real rover Yes, and don't use noxxic
chilly brook
2 if you fail to time the key and 3 if you pass @grim prism
But that’s the way it was last week as well
So the dungeon event isn’t applying
real rover
how do I judge a 360 to a 355 item if the 360 has the worse secondaries then?
chilly brook
Just don’t know if it was also that way in legion
graceful mason
That noxxic string looks fine.. it's basically what we all gear for anyways
grim prism
Hmmm
graceful mason
Just because it's on a shitty site doesn't mean it has to be wrong
ember arrow
@chilly brook no
chilly brook
@real rover is it armor? Or is it a ring?
ember arrow
its always m0
real rover
ring
ember arrow
as it was from the start of legion
chilly brook
Aight
Like I said didn’t know
Then keep using the lower ilvl one until you get a 10 ilvl upgrade @real rover
sick sentinel
Use brain.
steel mauve
If its a pawn string is not gonna be accurate regardless, so it is wrong
real rover
aight
grim prism
I mean you CAN use pawn if you want, just know that that string is not based on any meaningful data
valid gorge
as a DPS, pawn is never good
grim prism
Whether or not it is "accurate" is coincidental and irrelevant
valid gorge
as a tank, maybe, but the string is probably not accurate
steel mauve
Theres literally no way to be able to tell if any pawn string is accurate as a prot war
grim prism
I can tell you for certain that it isnt based in any meaningful data
SimC module for prot doesnt work and AMR is a joke
fleet ridge
@graceful mason Hi
limber perch
crit bad haste good, me smart prot war
tawny lantern
Today we are starting zul in heroic, got any tips? How are we doing in that fight?
steel mauve
Crits not exactly bad either, just other stats are better
grim prism
^
limber perch
making it bad
steel mauve
Untrue
grim prism
Thats the same logic that has people thinking prot is a trash tank
chilly brook
I’ve asked this a million times but strength food or haste food? For reference haste is worth basically 2% extra haste for me as a panda but the base strength food value is almost double that of the haste value
steel mauve
Just because a stat is worse than others, doesnt make it bad, just makes it worse than others
If it was bad we WOULDNT want it at all, but if gear has it on it, its not going to be that detrimental
grim prism
Parry is very strong, its just RNG based whereas other secondaries are flat increases
Hence deprioritizing crit
I mean
steel mauve
Difference in a stat being bad, and other stats being better, people need to understand this
grim prism
You cant get much stronger than 100% mitigation
Secondaries are much closer in relative value than last expac
stat budget is likely going to outweigh itemization in a lot of cases
steel mauve
@chilly brook this is just my own thought process, and i cant tell you if its accurate or not, but i go with haste food unless its 100 stat feast then i do str, whether thats right or not i cant swear to it
chilly brook
@steel mauve the guild supplies the 100 feast
grim prism
If we had a working simc module we would be able to verify and determine exactly how much (for niche purposes because simming tanks is wonky to begin with)
steel mauve
I prefer 55 haste over 75 str though
chilly brook
I pretty much supply the moonlight salmon for it
peak compass
Is Filthy Transfusion worth looking at as prot?
chilly brook
But I make my 55 haste food
steel mauve
But i dont think haste is worth double str
grim prism
Its not
uneven mason
Either effects from the feast are a better increase to overall survivability than 55 haste food
stam or str
chilly brook
@steel mauve @grim prism @uneven mason well that’s not exactly 100% true though. When I eat the haste food I end up with 140 haste for some reason. But when I eat the feast it’s 200 strength
For some reason the scaling on the individual food seems slightly larger than the 100% increased passive
limber perch
🐼 slow down
chilly brook
I could be just remembering wrongly
But I’m pretty sure the feast only gives 200
I KNOW that the haste gives 140 though
grim prism
All i know is 200 primary is almost certainly going to outperform 140 haste if youre doing content that doesnt involve sitting on an IP permabubble
Again, no sims so its all napkin math
And frankly i didnt do the napkin math
marble pelican
so where can you purchase the coins for extra rolls, and get the weekly quests? Sorry I've tried finding them and cant
grim prism
But logically i cant see a tank having a secondary worth 150% of their primary per-point
chilly brook
Yea this is where I wish I had a sim 😢
When your race actually makes your food choice difficult
🙃
@fierce juniper care to weigh in?
@marble pelican transmog in new city
marble pelican
@chilly brook thank you
chilly brook
Np
gilded hazel
hey guys, i dont know if im on the right chanel but im having some problems with picking/changing my trinkets
grim prism
Even if the two were identical in value, 200 is more than 140 lol
uneven mason
right
fierce juniper
That's not true Ikari
200 Str is probably ever so slightly better than 140 Haste, but it's likely very close
chilly brook
Well strength should be stronger but it’s already shown as not really
grim prism
@gilded hazel check the icyveins guide in the pins and see if that answers it
chilly brook
Don’t need to look further than arms to see that
grim prism
Well arms is in a weird spot. Lets be real
gilded hazel
ye ive checked it already but as far as i saw not really :/ @grim prism
chilly brook
Alright so use strength if available if not haste is basically probably almost as good or just as good appreciate it @fierce juniper
fierce juniper
Well, Haste is better than Strength per point.
grim prism
I'm assuming the value there is in rage gen and AM advancement
fierce juniper
right
chilly brook
I suppose the only real way to tell is do a million parses with both
fierce juniper
I mean, the "real" answer is that it's so close that it really doesn't matter.
uneven mason
Course not sure where the 140 haste is coming from
chilly brook
But no ones gonna do that
uneven mason
should be 110 yes?
chilly brook
should be but it isn’t lol
I’ll take a screenshot later today for you if you’d like
grim prism
Inb4 your tooltip is fucked and it actually is 110
gilded hazel
[Darkmoon Deck: Blockades][Vanquished Tendril of G'huun] > im having these trinkets equipped atm equipped (botn on ilvl 355) and i got this today from weekly chest on ilvl 360[Vial of Animated Blood] > for this wowhead is telling its a bis trinket for dungeons but atm hc raiding is more important for me and i cant decide should change it for any or not cuz the Ghuun trinket is giving me an ally add and i dont its useful or not
gilded hazel
yes
fierce juniper
@uncut fractal 355
gilded hazel
1296 strength on use
chilly brook
Then use that over tendril
chilly brook
Better defensively and offensively
gilded hazel
btw guys so far what is your opnion about prot warrior for mythic raiding?
gilded hazel
sorry 😛 today is my first time here
marble pelican
I haven't done Mythic Raiding, but mythic plus 4 he does ok, I mean we made it, and only deaths was a mistimed Arrow lol
uneven mason
Ping sense, I'm sure he'll stop getting his face beat in by Fetid long enough to answer how Prot is in Mythic 😄
wintry ermine
Razdunk's Big Red Button 355 vs rezan's eye 340?
pastel halo
How are horde racials for prot? I started leveling high mountain over maghar
uneven mason
Rezan's
BRB has no real defensive benefit
its a raw DPS trinket
besides the str
marble pelican
my guild does Heroic raiding atm, and they prefer DK and Pally tank
grim prism
@pastel halo racials dont really matter. If you really want an OP racial you should do a belf for the aoe dispel
zinc creek
hey guys how huge is darkmoon deck in terms of survivability? is it worth buying it>
chilly brook
So here’s a doozy of a question, I’m using a 370 injector cuz reasons; but I have options for my second trinket blockades, fathoms or a 350 Rezan’s
grim prism
But its what, a 2-3 min CD?
chilly brook
I’m thinking the Rezan’s would be best
vast void
out of all the things i got one of the worst trinkets: in weekly chest [Lingering Sporepods 370] feels bad man
fathom marten
Watching Method do mythic Fetid.
uneven mason
DPS race with tank check
fathom marten
Talks of stopping to do heroic because he might be overtuned
steep lily
Would a 390 str dps trinket beat out 340 Rezans if it had no defensive effect?
uneven mason
Fetid is the new Aggramar
steep lily
Not sure how valuable pure strength is
chilly brook
I mean most guilds don’t even get 2 eggs in heroic they just do one and burn the boss
uneven mason
probably toomuch health on the adds
Or
maybe Blizard doesn't want this place to be cleared in 1 week 😉
get sum gear
chilly brook
Can’t imagine 3 and a 30% health gain
vast void
so, what would you equip ? i have following options
fierce juniper
@vast void blockades and emblem
vast void
thanks !
fierce juniper
Blockade's is very likely better for pure survivability
compared to the 350 rezans
chilly brook
RIP
wintry ermine
what are you calling injector? just curious
wintry ermine
aha!
strong forum
got eeeem
vagrant cape
0.0
twin eagle
Has anyone seen the prot hidden appearance drop post bfa launch?
sick sentinel
can i run the warfront again now
mild vigil
What?
junior ivy
how do i get champion equipoment?
half merlin
does reoriginating array stack retroactively?
fierce juniper
Yes
uneven mason
@twin eagle I've seen it (on my Xmog) I dunno if enough folks are actively kicking around in Legion zones but iirc they activated it 100% of the time now.
Its not a drop BTW, its literally walk into the cave and find it in a pile of treasure
twin eagle
Do you recall a blue post that states hiddens drops are 100% active? I know it's a long shot, but I've checked all through Legion and BFA to date with no luck. GMs are giving me the run around.
sick sentinel
Newbie prot warrior here
what is the best horde race to get started with
I've never decided to get better at prot until now
uneven mason
Whatever one you like playing
race is really irrelevant
@twin eagle There wasn't a blue post, it was just during prepatch it was up on EVERY One of my warriors
and basically every one I asked said they had it as well
So I'd just go get the script run it and jog on over to the cave
grim prism
@twin eagle arms HAA was up last week on my server. They appear to still be inplemented
vagrant arrow
eu not reseted yet?
mild vigil
It reset 9 hours ago
muted crane
Red Bull should, but somethin went wrong.
sick sentinel
I’m debating grabbing a blockades. Been using fathoms but I’m wondering if a little smoothing from blockades might be worthwhile
ebon gorge
Use both?
sick sentinel
My other trinket is doo doo butts from a WQ because Rezan hates me
Wait
I thought they were unique equipped
Am I an idiot?
muted crane
Nope
sick sentinel
accepts the flames he deserves
frail cedar
I've just got the stat stick that popped up for a horde emissary one day and the mythrax trinket with the shield. Should I get blockades to replace the higher ilvl shield one, or the stat stick?
vagrant arrow
i am a bit confused guys where do i get mythic+ weekly chest?
frail cedar
It's in the great seal, first room on your right as you enter
vagrant arrow
love ya
jade tartan
Does anyone know if Warfronts 7 day duration must be completed or if as soon as the countdown starts at the Horde, the Alliance is already on the donation phase and can switch sides even before the 7 day duration ends?
old dawn
the former
it will be the timer, and then the alliance goes into the donation step
and we 'own' arathi
vocal nimbus
would be nice if they moved to another area
vagrant arrow
damn raid leaders prefers damn dh and dk whats this
prisma night
Preferring dh for raid 🤔
vagrant arrow
ppl saying prot tank is weak around
frail cedar
Stronger than DH for raid for sure
brisk shore
Didn't change my loot spec before looting the chest, now the proud owner of a 370 two hander -.- oops
prisma night
Id expect dk or brew but dh? Seems outta whack to even the stereotypical "meta"
frail cedar
Mythic plus tanking is drastically different than raid tanking
frail cedar
DH has fantastic sustain so they're great in mythic plus
vagrant arrow
yea
earnest zinc
Prot Warrior isn't that far behind if you play it right
brisk shore
Grip was also very strong last week with sanguine.
frail cedar
We have outstanding damage right now which is nice
earnest zinc
Benched is using one and they are a top 50 US guild
keen spire
It's just harder to produce the same results on a prot than it is on DK/Brew
earnest zinc
DK is idiotproof
keen spire
With prot?
earnest zinc
Brew is slightly less idiot proof
vagrant arrow
y
keen spire
Which M+?
vagrant arrow
motherlode
earnest zinc
Just keep up bone shield or ironskin brew and you win
vagrant arrow
kings rest
keen spire
Shrine of the Storms is probably the least prot-friendly instance in the game right now
earnest zinc
DK you death strike to heal
vagrant arrow
storm yea
keen spire
so much effing magic damage
earnest zinc
GG you are a top tier tank if you do that
earnest zinc
Prot Warrior you have to optimize your CDs and AM to not get trucked
vocal nimbus
Do you realise that prot warr is the only tank with magic mitigation aside of BDK?
next goblet
not true
keen spire
DH has passive magic mitigation
keen spire
Prot pallies have a talent for it
keen spire
bear druids are the only ones that don't have a button to push for magic damage, I think
aside from FR
earnest zinc
They have a passive damage reduction
keen spire
Ah, like DH?
earnest zinc
Also mastery is effectively damage reduction as well
vocal nimbus
Neither pally without talent, monks nor vdhs
keen spire
bro what
frail cedar
They should tweak spell reflect to not remove the DR after one spell is reflected
vocal nimbus
BDK and warrior are the only ones with a button for magic damage as you said
keen spire
^
earnest zinc
Those are CDs
next goblet
monks have passive magic redux honestly.. also doesn't demo shout reduce magic damage too?
vagrant arrow
esp that underrot ticks at the begining
grim prism
Is spell reflect not a CD?
keen spire
it does
grim prism
vagrant arrow
rape me up
grim prism
Exactly
keen spire
I'd argue that everything we press is a CD
grim prism
Shit, the cooldown on demo is just as short as SR with Anger Mgmt
keen spire
except.. idk.. devastate..
vocal nimbus
I was referring to CDs specific for magic damage
grim prism
Why tho
vocal nimbus
Only warriors have spell reflect and bdks have AMS
grim prism
If demo and sw also reduce magic damage
keen spire
there are only two spells that are specific to magic damage reduction, sure
fresh dragon
I FEEL "FINE"
keen spire
but that's not the only thing you would use against those in practically any realtime scenario
vocal nimbus
Which are pretty strong
keen spire
20% reduction on SR isn't that strong
grim prism
How many buttons does DK have? Just AMS?
keen spire
especially when it gets consumed after one targeted spell
vocal nimbus
Just wanted to point that warrior isnt that bad against magic damage
Because every tank this xpac suffers from magic damage
Not just warrior
next goblet
at least we're not druid
keen spire
getting three shot by magic spells in a M+8 even with your damage reduction stuff up is better than getting 2-shot, sure
but it's still pretty bad
undone sun
3-shot is recoverable, 2-shot is as well if your healer is on point
keen spire
shrine bro
grim prism
Kick the debuffs
next goblet
what boss
keen spire
bosses are cake
grim prism
Thats a mechanical error
keen spire
we're talkin trash
next goblet
what trash is 3 shotting you with magic damage?
grim prism
You cant blame the class for dying through mitigation if you fuck up trash mechanics lol
steel mauve
Ones that can be stunned or interrupted
keen spire
me personally? none lol
grim prism
Then wtf are you complaining about?
next goblet
^^^^
grim prism
Lol
undone sun
keen spire
I like to think of myself as reasonably adept at my class and spec
however I have seen others get demolished
so I'm arguing for their sake
vagrant arrow
yea usually because of not dispelling
vagrant arrow
i am struggling with those adds
vocal nimbus
Tbh SotS is a farily easy dungeon if you follow the better route
grim prism
Everything hurts when you do it wrong
next goblet
^
steel mauve
Then they need to play better lol
grim prism
Same argument we've heard for PrOt BeInG bAd all expac
steel mauve
Just because some players are bad at the class, doesnt mean the class is bad
uncut fractal
is g'huun trinket any good?
grim prism
If you do the mechanics you take way less damage
grim prism
Novel concept, I kmow
vagrant arrow
actually
steel mauve
Oh that cast got off that we totally could have stopped and it killed me
keen spire
lol
steel mauve
Class is bad
grim prism
You know I'm a salty fucker
inland mesa
The devil must be bored cuz that horse is dead
grim prism
When I see a spade I'm calling it a spade
inland mesa
How about that mythic fetid?
chilly brook
@vagrant arrow I just did a +9 freeholde last night I assure you prot isn’t bad
inland mesa
Beta for Azeroth continues my friends
next goblet
i feel like this xpac is one big meme right now
inland mesa
We did an 11 seige first week and almost completed on time, healers died 4 times on the first boss or it would have been in time
vagrant arrow
siege i like most
grim prism
We should start a support group for embattled casuals who are still enjoying the expac
We can call it Betas For Azeroth
inland mesa
I'm still liking it a lot, just disagree with a bunch of choices
weary notch
guys, chill. They're still in early access
inland mesa
But that's probably more guild stuff and things to do and dying horribly to bugged mythic mother beams
grim prism
@inland mesa im pretty convinced they shadownerfed the weekly cache drops to compensate for the fact that they were forced to make azerite tradeable
inland mesa
Fuck that cache
grim prism
It would make gearing too quick if both things were true
inland mesa
I got the one handed beat stick that looks like a shield icon
grim prism
Bad for recurrent sub count
inland mesa
I was so excited for the shield then moused over it and started crying :(
next goblet
lul
keen spire
yeah I have all my gear above 340 except my shield...
it's a fuckin 300 crafted one...
le fuckin sigh
inland mesa
I got it enchanted and the guy was even like...i didn't know you can weapon enchant shields
keen spire
Loooololololololl
weary notch
oh, that one from Tol Dagor? Yeah, I thought the same thing
keen spire
hot damn
inland mesa
Yeah I'm rocking 360 or 361 ilvl
Depends if i have darkmoon on, but we derped heroic g'huun last night so were behind
Get that and taloc tonight cuz lol, then hopefully mother is fixed
keen spire
Nice, nice.. I can't seem to get my guild over the Normal Mythrax hump.. 😐
keen spire
yeah man.. wiped 4 times on it last night with 18 people
inland mesa
Heroic fetid was such a joke last night after thrash nerf, could take it without shield block
weary notch
well that's no fun
keen spire
lol I went into normal fetid at 329 ilvl and shield block up brought me to 30% health each hit
that was week 1 though
inland mesa
Week 1 was ridiculous
keen spire
idk man, I think they're addressing the wrong issues with their tuning at the moment
inland mesa
Got a nice weak aura that tracks all his swings though and just makes a huge red oh shit appear when it's thrash time
weary notch
I got straight up one shot on normal when I was caught with nothing up. Had no idea it would hit for 207k
inland mesa
Yeah I died normal and heroic week 1
green bison
does anyone know if iron fortress trait also gives threat?
keen spire
how many hours a week do you raid, @inland mesa
weary notch
it should. All damage is threat
keen spire
^
weary notch
but it won't be a lot
green bison
cause i somehow got 3 of that trait
inland mesa
Too many, last week we called 4 nights got g'huun 317 world, but it was a Sunday if we had called Friday could have been higher
keen spire
ah, I see
inland mesa
I got the heroic I think zek voz strength and cleave trinket....thanks PL
Guess it's good for m+?
Or PvP
weary notch
yes, this is a good week for prot m+
inland mesa
Has more str and a socket for static haste was debating on just using it over zandalri 345 but my stats are such garbage everything is crit mast/vers
Least I can watch my streams now and see how terrible I am
smoky basin
junior ivy
is ghuun on normal puggable?
uncut fractal
1123211 best talents for m+?
shut summit
@uncut fractal been using stormbolt in the higher m+ - prolly depends on group but been findin it pretty good when already another aoe stun in group
good for infested ghuun worms / extra solo interrupt etc
uneven mason
Are you being asked to carry orbs?
uncut fractal
@shut summit I'll try that, thanks! Haven't reached m+10 for infested worms though. Have you tried it as prot? What do you think
uneven mason
He's the #1 prot warrior in the world at the moment...
uncut fractal
Oh lol
cold dragon
do i still need artifact lvl 5 to get hidden transmog?
uneven mason
🙄 Sense is like, the only one who hasn't betrayed us and gone BrM or Pal
Probably Darttak
uneven mason
Not the only one
I think Sal saw the light
after I kept calling him a 🐻
I think Marok is raiding as his warrior...was for heroic I think?
Probably just to get some feeling for how its playing
None of the serious pushers are Prot war right now, but for Sense 😛
that I know of ofc
clear sapphire
Just a funny series of runs for me last night. We were doing 9/10's as a guild group with 1 Mage from Azralon. Second run was a 10 and he went on and on about cc thr infested, etc it took him until about half way through the dunguen to realize that he was 3/4 on DPS on AoE and that cc was not needed. Then he proceeded to sound suprised that Prot wars could do so much damage over and over try rest of the night (3-4 more M+)
uncut fractal
Guys 355 G'huun trinket or 340 Rezan w/ socket as Prot?
clear sapphire
G'huun trinket is wis
uncut fractal
worst?
uncut fractal
So its not good
uneven mason
@uncut fractal use Rezan's with socket
uncut fractal
Okay
uneven mason
none of the Uldir trinekts are worth their weight
uncut fractal
I've got another question
Besides Blockades trinket, should I spam high m+ Atal Dazar to get 360+ Rezan?
Or isn't a big diff from a 340 one
uneven mason
Yes
spamming high keys in AD is yes
you have almost an entire set of equipment
from that single dungeon
uncut fractal
exactly
chilly brook
I mean pretty sure syringe is worth it DPS wise @uneven mason 😜
uncut fractal
does weekly buff with additional drop from last boss work in m+?
is that 3 items guaranteed?
chilly brook
No it does not
chilly brook
He means the dungeon event
clear sapphire
@uneven mason taloc hit like a wet noodle
chilly brook
And no it unfortunately does not
uneven mason
Oh
chilly brook
2 pieces if you deplete
uneven mason
Derp'd
chilly brook
3 if you pass
uncut fractal
what stats should I aim for rings?
uneven mason
Yeah, bonus only works in Mythic0
uncut fractal
haste on both?
uneven mason
follow priority
@clear sapphire Yeah he does, he's a perfect warmup boss where the main mistakes are going to be DPS getting themselves killed
final mist
@uneven mason you're right in that I've seen the Light, since technically my Paladin is my main
chilly brook
Oof
inland mesa
Hey...im still pushing as prot :-P. We should get taloc and hopefully mother tonight. So it'll be 20 parses on tqloc
uneven mason
prior to this week
final mist
No, I have been
uneven mason
well that is what I meant
chilly brook
Just curious since you’re maining your Paladin how does that work out for Fetid? CD reduction enough to have mitigation for each thrash? Or are you main tanking the boss
uneven mason
not that you were focusing, but at least you got the warrior on deck
uncut fractal
what's parses i'm confused
uneven mason
most pushers have BrM BDK Pal on deck
uncut fractal
sorry for my noobish questions
uneven mason
a lot of VDH too
final mist
I handle Devourer by making my BRM cotank MT him, and I swap to my warrior for Thrashes xd
uneven mason
dat block tho
final mist
I could do it on the Paladin but it's really tight
chilly brook
I’ve got 3 toons at 120
inland mesa
That's how I felt on g'huun last night, dodging slow moving grey orbs is hard kids
uneven mason
Paladin needs erm 2 more externals for the full circle of life?
can't wait to see how it feels on mythic
final mist
It's overtuned. Look at Method's streams right now.
chilly brook
Druid is like 324
inland mesa
Having to rep grind each alt makes me sad in the pants
inland mesa
It was overturned, then they nerfed it and it's still bad
final mist
Overtuned, and bugged.
uneven mason
Chewtoy - convincing HDH that 2 more seconds of uptime on the boss isn't worth shitting grey snot in the middle of the healing circles is rough isn't it
final mist
It's still overtuned.
chilly brook
TBH pretty sure it’s on purpose
final mist
Likely not
daring marlin
man I hate azerite armor so much
mild vigil
"Xalzaix's Veiled Eye absorb increased by 190%.
Developers’ notes: We re-evaluated our guidelines for budgeting defensive and health-restoring effects in comparison to damage-dealing effects, and concluded that several such trinkets needed a significant increase."
Is it a good tanking trinket now? "Every 2 minutes, cast 1.8 ignore pains if your hp falls below 40%"
chilly brook
It wouldn’t be the first time blizz actually put a literal wall in front of Mythic raiders
final mist
It was impossible before, now it's just slightly less impossible
inland mesa
The heal reduction would do it for them, 10% every 2 seconds? Yeesh
final mist
Check pins Zuule
uneven mason
Zuule - short answer - no
is it worth using at higher item levels - probably at some point
but thats from raw str
final mist
Likely not unless it's a massive upgrade over something you have
uneven mason
I got a 325 REzan's
chilly brook
@uneven mason could be like me and your first trinket from raid is a 370 TF from normal g’huun and is completely worthless
inland mesa
I got the dps trinket from zek voz which made my dps cry and I'm like hmmm maybe for are over 344 zandalri?
final mist
My warrior has two and my Paladin still has a 340 one
mild vigil
You can have 2 of the same trinket?
chilly brook
170 versatility and a fairly bad random proc