man, fuck that room
#protection
hexed geyser
Is insane
merry cave
I've been having more issues with first boss trash than that room
merry cave
We don't have anyone die to that stuff but usually lose a few in the first room
Fuck those fearing shits
hexed geyser
Hm
merry cave
We just don't have a good counter in our group, only 1x belf (dh) and no priest anymore
And I really really really don't want to play belf lol
hexed geyser
But honestly I really felt it, if your grp isn’t very good you feel like you are useless you die a lot and stuff but if the grp actually works with you stops casts and whatnot it feels a ton better
It’s funny how it works and what ur brain tells you
tight tree
340 Rezan's or 355 Fathoms as second trinket? (1st one is Blockades).
hexed geyser
Which one was fathoms again?
hexed geyser
I’d rather die at a boss than fucking cancer trash
raven kernel
Warlock is guaranteed fucked
hexed geyser
Motherlode as a whole is cancer
static lance
the anticipation of the weekly chest tonight is a nice feeling.
merry cave
Why is warlock garunteed?
clear sapphire
10 Kings rest done kms
tight tree
Could not do 10, 6 will be good enough i guess
tight tree
We are casual guild, noone pushing
clear sapphire
O.o
summer kestrel
Jeez
clear sapphire
@tight tree always gotta be pushing and challenging yourself
clear sapphire
Nice.
summer kestrel
I did a +7 kings rest and made me not wanting to tank never again
clear sapphire
I'll take that shield :0
tight tree
I do not enjoy m+ on warrior tbh. Every time i hope we start raiding fast so i can finally stop farming dungeons.
gray wolf
oh?
merry cave
Cant wait for tyrancial I think it's going to give me the final push on toughing it out or jumping ship for key pushes
gray wolf
out dpsing ppl on trash is always fun
give us gladiator stance back
then we'll be viable again
:^)
tight tree
I loved challenge modes in MoP and WoD, M+ not so much.
Maybe i should level Blood or VDH for m+, dunno. probably i will just raid on warrior and be done with it.
sick sentinel
Have you guys tried any, Uldir Heroic Tanking? currently at 347 and I feel like I'm getting demolished
summer kestrel
In which boss
tight tree
yeah tanked up to Zek no major issues, 350 ilvl.
sick sentinel
Fetid Devourer for example
tight tree
Fetid was easiest
summer kestrel
Well fetid is like that
gray wolf
or atleast i found ot to be easier on fetid
lapis dust
depends on you tanking mt or soaking
summer kestrel
Just don't use a warrior ot
sick sentinel
I tried OT it, was getting hit for 180k when I couldnt keep my Ignore Pain up
clear sapphire
Fetid hurt alot but they nerfes the dmg >.<. We did it before the Nerf with 30 man grp
gray wolf
shield block?
tight tree
Shield block every terrible trash
prisma night
Yeah if you sb you get hit for like 100k for thrashes
gray wolf
and when shield block runs out you just pop last stand
clear sapphire
I was getting hit ~160k through sb
gray wolf
then you've recharged ur shield blocks
tight tree
use shield wall or external if you dont have SB
sick sentinel
oh I see. Mother was also an Issue when I tried tanking it
prisma night
160k? Was he sub 50% hp?
gray wolf
even sub 50% hp i was getting hit for like 40-80k
merry cave
I did fetid mt and ot it was fine
sick sentinel
Last group was me and 1 Heal, and he couldnt get me over 30% to
merry cave
Did kill as mt cos pally was getting smoked
manic perch
@prisma night love ur name its from Hunter X Hunter right?
prisma night
Yeah im under geared af and he only hit 130k max on a thrash
gray wolf
it's fun seeing other tanks get smoked when you mt on fetid
manic perch
definetly
manic perch
aren't our talents pretty cookie cutter atm?
gray wolf
they are
it hurts how much it is
but then again against fetid if ur really struggling with surviving even punish might be worth picking up
that's just my opinion tho
manic perch
yeah im so tempted to just try dragons roar in M+ just for the slows lol 35sec cd isnt too bad but gonna lose some serious dps
gray wolf
¯_(ツ)_/¯
but a slow on a 35 sec cd
and ur already spamming every gcd you can
there's not much room
manic perch
if you weave it with shockwave might help
ember arrow
fetid is nerfed a shitton
summer kestrel
I wish for hamstring in prot
ember arrow
no tank should struggle with him
@manic perch you go into necrotic m+ without slows in your group? 🤔
merry cave
I'm not sure have you played a DH 🤔
next goblet
wish me luck
manic perch
yep, our group is small and dont have many choice mostly we are 4melee :S
ember arrow
yikes
next goblet
purposely doing a low atal'dazar because i cant get a shield to drop
ember arrow
then dragon roar mighr be worth considering
u must kite necrotic anyway
u dont "loose" dps
hazy path
is [Prism of Dark Intensity] decent for us ?
sick sentinel
hey guys are warriors just squishy right now im 360 ilvl and still getting smashed by everything
next goblet
are you relying more on ignore pain or SB?
ember arrow
@merry cave i think youre not giving VDH enough credit, we did hc on 350 ilvl, and he survived everything without many problems
so idk
@sick sentinel use cds better
next goblet
because different from legion, we rely on SB more than we do IP, IP is more of a buff for SB
UNLESS its unblockable damage..
and yea rotate CDs in there
merry cave
I've got 356 war and 348 dh and the dh feels like paper in raids in comparison
I still didn't die but it was definitely noticeable
I think war was 352 when doing it so wasn't a huge ilvl gap
M+ it feels reversed 😂
hazy path
hey guys is [Prism of Dark Intensity] 154 mastery chance to increase strength by 242 every 3 sec for 18 secs
would that be good for us
dps wise
sick sentinel
yea i was talking more about M+ just getting trashed
prisma night
Yeah i was having some issues with m+ last night. Youre not alone
ember arrow
mistake 1: are u in melee range of adds?
prisma night
But i just need to get better
tight tree
@merry cave Does VDH feel squishy in m+ on big pulls? As I understand it, Demon Spikes uptime is pretty low. Healing is enough to feel good, or you have to kite more? Sorry for slight offtopic, interested in comparsion to warrior.
merry cave
About the same this week due to necrotic, you don't face tank long enough to not have spikes up
tight tree
Wondering should i try and level VDH for dungeons, becaue on warrior i do not having any fun running them.
prisma night
Im thinking pally as a decent middle ground for raid or m+
merry cave
But imo the 3 utility sigils shit all over shockwave this week
tight tree
Middle ground i think is Brewmaster
merry cave
Also the Parry helps with necrotic even though it's not as high as legion, but that's just a feeling I have no numbers behind it
But I love my war and I'm rather stubborn so gonna try my best to make it work 👍
tight tree
On Brew i feel way better, i dont have to stress about mitigation uptime, so i can relax and think more about coordinating pulls, interrupts, etc.
yeah i love my warr, it is my main, but i primarily raid.
prisma night
And Thats saying something
tight tree
I just feel i like actually fight mobs and bosses, and not my own class mechanics. Subjective, dont judge me. Look and feel of warrior still > all.
merry cave
I mean if your really struggling with it I'd swap and try again later in expac and keep war as an alt
tight tree
Brew just flows so smooth and nice, and warrior is like giant boulder, rolling on road with huge bumps 😉
merry cave
Dont have to prove shit to anyone, if you like brew and get better results I'd 100% play it. And given the extremely low numbers of wars in uldir, it'll get some changes whether there good or bad who knows then can try again
tight tree
Thing is, i am not really struggling, no 10s but i can tank +6 easy, but i enjoy it less in dungeons. Feel way better in raid. But i think I overall like dungeons less.
I guess they will nerf warrior's damage, and stop on this 😆
prisma night
I definitely dont blame ya for not liking warrs in dungeons
smoky wave
Think I'm coming to the same conclusion Braggha. I love my warrior, and I do enjoy it in dungeons, but I can see bdk being as much fun in dungeons and easier to do more with it. If I raided there'd be no choice; warrior all the way.
summer kestrel
<-- testing a BDK
tight tree
Watched Sense videos, he is huge inspiration. Every time i watch him, i like "DAYM he is good" and i want to push some m+ anyway 😃
smoky wave
Exactly what I did this morning, but with kid#2 on the way there's no chance I can be that good, so I'll have to cheese it instead
sick sentinel
filthy transfusion or reinforced plating?
merry cave
I'm finding more and more to do well with war you gotta have the right healer too
Monk and sham have been great for me so far
merry cave
No
hazy path
so how do i know if a ttink is good right now
summer kestrel
everytime I go to m+ with a disc :(
tight tree
Blood is so slow. Probably VDH if i want self-healing tank 🤣
ember arrow
bdk is way tankier than vdh
manic perch
bdk all the way 90% aoe slow > all
hazy path
so is strength the best stat for us DPS wise? i know what the best defensively is but I'm wondering about offensively
manic perch
and easy aggro
merry cave
Yeah I'd be surprised if mdi isn't full of bdk still
fathom marten
So how far has method been in mythic uldir?
hazy path
honestly i tanked heroic as brew but i got bored so now i'm gearing my warrior again
fathom marten
Oh wait
hazy path
mythic uldir isn't out for another few hours
fathom marten
💔💔💔💔💔
next goblet
i love you at ignore pain value
fathom marten
Lmao
next goblet
BFA value.. not legion
fathom marten
Well, I suppose that's fine for a platonic relationship
next goblet
❤
manic perch
sucks my group wants me to switch to my blood dk for Zek and those pesky small adds for aoe slow and grip
tight tree
Blizzard wanted to balance tanks for m+, jk, next invitationals 90% BDKs, last 10 VDHs 😉
fathom marten
Lol
next goblet
ill love you at legion value if you give me an oswain
hazy path
I'm just gonna go ahead and say tanks are much closer to each other than they were in legion in m+ but not balanced yet
fathom marten
@hazy path very true
next goblet
Take away a BDK death strike.. and they're an arms warrior with mitigation
MAKE THEM HURT TOO
next goblet
lol they'll have bone shield
next goblet
they'll manage
ember arrow
essentially
fathom marten
I was posting those pictures yesterday of logs that showed how much less damage we take compared to bdk. Some peoole were totally surprised
next goblet
oh we take a lot less
fathom marten
Yeah we do
next goblet
but the problem is the DK heals right back up
whereas we just slowly die if we get no heals
fathom marten
Been looking at logs the past 2 days. On paper we look good.
fathom marten
That is, if you're maintaining your am around 30% and up
manic perch
king's rest RIP warrior tank
ember arrow
@vivid thistle drtag him to the council bos sroom
manic perch
hate that dungeon
ember arrow
then u can die and then spawn next to him
thats how i did it on +10
tag him and skystep to the room
while team waits there
sick sentinel
is there anyway to analyze my dmg taken?
if its 2 much ...or doing something wrong
vivid thistle
Didn't even think of that, I was just throwing my body at him while praying the party pets could take a hit or two
Will try next time, thanks all!
fathom marten
You're SB uptime is good. I mean is there a particular situation you're wanting to address?
sick sentinel
@fathom marten me?
I feel sometimes bosses tend to hit me for 50% my hp or more
(should I Last Stand in cd?)
tight tree
Last stand when SB is not up
Demo shout or pray when both LS and SB is not up 😉 Or ask for external.
tight tree
No, it is good. I sometimes delay it a bit if big hit is coming.
fresh dragon
@chilly brook griff mate u there? 😄
fathom marten
@sick sentinel you're taking less damage then your off tank overall. I'll look through some more in a few.
sick sentinel
Hi everyone, is there going to be a tank balancing before mythic uldir ? I think i've read something about it but there's only some dps and healer tuning on mmo champion right now.
fathom marten
@sick sentinel hmm actually I take that back...
fathom marten
Yeah it looks about right actually. Your mit more or less average it out
vocal nimbus
I would send warrior to manage the adds 🤔
Higher aoe damage and 2 aoe interrupts + pummel
fresh dragon
u can tell me whaterver u want but we dont get a fucking hotfix since last expansion
and i dont think warrior prot i so BALANCED to don't need any fix
fathom marten
Haha. We are in a good spot In raids though. Just prove with logs if your gulides say something.
😁😄😅
sick sentinel
well Im the RL
fresh dragon
IN RAID
sick sentinel
so I wont get benched xD
fresh dragon
in mythic + we got refused
sick sentinel
hopfully
fathom marten
That's perception problem
fathom marten
Community perception problem of wars. Not actual evidence that we are bad.
tight tree
tanked +6 with 345 no issues, people just stooped
upbeat folio
I will say that in mythic+ content my monk feels substantially smoother than my warrior. That doesn't mean I view my warrior as non-viable.
tight tree
heavy depends on healer too
upbeat folio
Yeah, I notice my warrior suffers a lot more when the healer compatibility isn't there.
I just want to strap a druid to my back.
tight tree
if you are warrior pretty much have to tank for guild/friends, going to get refused
scarlet osprey
Which healers pair worst with prot?
tight tree
Because sco
upbeat folio
He does that every expansion.
raven kernel
Part of me hopes method gets cucked on fetid
fathom marten
I hate doing high end mythic plus with any spec or class
raven kernel
And need warrior
fathom marten
It's an enormous gamble
tight tree
y single handedly set tank trends, bet it feel nice 😉
fathom marten
Was doing a plus 4 tol dagor with 2 wars a lock and a monk heals. Awful. I was outdpsing all of them. We get to the fire sloot and they can't handle moving the barrels around at all
fresh dragon
+4 don't count man...
gray wolf
do a +7
fresh dragon
+4 is for kidgarden children
tight tree
but to be fair, it was obvious that blizzard is 100% failed with prot design, all this talents shuffle during beta, ended up with worse IP, 1 set ov viable talents, no variety at all
fathom marten
No I'm just saying. Something low like a +4 is even hard to find good dps in.
merry cave
I have, damage intake was fine
fathom marten
No matter what class you play there's alwyas some bs mythic plus drama you have to be prepared form
merry cave
Prot warrior is extremely low population
fresh dragon
u leap to reset necrotic MEANWHILE ranged trash kill ur ass
merry cave
Maybe utilise your other 4 players?
tight tree
And btw, Into The Fray talented, fucks up my profession windows. They randomly closing and resetting, cant que craft at all. Spec out of it, all is fine.
fresh dragon
if u stay meleee u get raped by necrotis.. if u run away u get raped by ranged coz u cannot generate rage
merry cave
Shock horror
tight tree
So Into the Fray is tanking talent, bolster is crafting talent. Yay for talent variety!
upbeat folio
If you're pushing a +7 key right now, you're hopefully in a group that is suitably coordinated and talented.
fathom marten
Crafting talent ?
upbeat folio
I wouldn't want to pug anything over a 6.
fresh dragon
@upbeat folio if u wanna push a +7 a warrior prot MUST be in friend group/guild
otherwise u wont NEVER invited
tight tree
@fresh dragon my man, maybe you play some other tanks? I get you, i feel the same sometimes. Maybe you will be more happy with monk/DK?
fresh dragon
no i have 3 warrior prot
fathom marten
Lol
fresh dragon
Takkero Tàkkero and Takkèro
fathom marten
Wtf why
tight tree
@fathom marten look at my earlier message
upbeat folio
Some people are masochists.
fresh dragon
its like to be married
tight tree
Into the Fray mess up with profession windows somehow
fathom marten
@tight tree ahhh my bad.
tight tree
How they even connected, i dont get. Some creative programming there
upbeat folio
No mods enabled at all,?
fathom marten
@fresh dragon but why 3 ??? Lol. Also, why keep it black and white? More then likely we won't see any sort of buff, why don't you try another tank out for now and come back later.
tight tree
Tried without addons, still having it
like try to overwrite one enchant with another, confirmation window just dissapears
no chance to click on it 😉
respec to bolster, everything is fine
not bullshitting you here
smoky wave
they've fixed it at the scrapper. It's due to the changing stacks changing your character state which clears the windows, or near enough
fresh dragon
Thrav u are right but WHY blizzard seems to be blind about us? they should think "something is wrong if our warrior class players got refused on m+ queue"
tight tree
Happening regardless of scrapper proximity
smoky wave
I meant they fixed the same issue with the scrapper
tight tree
Ah
smoky wave
obviously forgot to do professions, same thing happening though
fathom marten
@fresh dragon You're right man I agree. That should be the number one reason we should have more utilities to bring. Skill means little at the high level when you're competing with other skilled players. At that point it's who brings what to the table.
smoky wave
I think if you stand where there's no one near you/going to come near you it might work. not tested though
surreal maple
That there is the general feeling that warrior is bad dosent mean it's true
People are sheep they follow the trend
And tve trend now is hate warrior tanks
We are not actually that bad
fresh dragon
@fathom marten im not asking for war prot to be the best tank but to be a FAIR tank that at least doesn't get refused "becouse you are a warrior protection"
fathom marten
BS should increase AP by 20% or something lol. Or into the fray buffs other players eith the same buff at half the value or something.
smoky wave
blizzard will have a tricky time with that as the issue isn't so much how we play or how we do, but what we're perceived to bring. Bringing us up in M+ without losing class distinction or breaking us for raids will be hard.
tight tree
My guild told me, play whatever you like and be good at. That is the correct mindset.
fresh dragon
@surreal maple how many +10 M+ have done this week?
fathom marten
@fresh dragon completley agree brother.
merry cave
Lol what the shit are you on about Ive pugged 7+ this week, I get invited
surreal maple
I get rejected as much as any of you on pugs
hybrid sundial
always get invited on +7
merry cave
I also get invited to 6s time the key and then get asked to stay
fresh dragon
u know we have to do +10 this week for weeky chest?
merry cave
Takkwro you were spouting the same shit yesterday and its completely false
fresh dragon
speaking about +6 or +7
fathom marten
I've literally seen lfgs saying "No Warriors"
surreal maple
I know but to be completely honest this i a wonderfull week for other tanks like dk to shine as theh are perfect counter for this affixes
fresh dragon
its like kidgarden childrens
surreal maple
Ks not a fair comparison
fathom marten
In the descrip
surreal maple
It's
fathom marten
I normally play with my guild though so it doesn't affect me to much .
surreal maple
We are perfectly able to do a +10
fresh dragon
in time??
merry cave
Garunteed to deplete a 9
gaunt dawn
Depends on dungeon
merry cave
Lol wtf are you smoking
upbeat folio
Sense has been clearing keys on time.
fresh dragon
Sense is Sense
upbeat folio
I know he's not your average warrior.
fathom marten
Lol
upbeat folio
But it can be done.
fresh dragon
so if Schumacher can drive a F1 car we can do that too
upbeat folio
Most people clearing 10s right now are not average players.
surreal maple
We obvously will struggle more and most wont be able to but it is possible
fathom marten
Though, it's not really a good things to say yeah warrs can clear plus 10s if you're a pro
gaunt dawn
Didnt schumacker die?
fresh dragon
no he didnt... yet 😄
gaunt dawn
He was in a coma for ages?
sick sentinel
@
fresh dragon
ye
sweet kettle
Every tank can do a +10 the only thing that is different is how easy a tank can accomplish what is needed to clear the key
robust bronze
will the darkmoon blockade get stronger with this reset since it now sacles with haste?
fathom marten
Not only that I feel...We are more reliant on the group too
surreal maple
We for example will be a good choice for skitish week due to our amazing aoe dps
These are just not our affixes
sweet kettle
Necrotic was never a prot affix
surreal maple
No fair comparison can be drawn this week
fathom marten
We pretty much agreed yesterday that prot war can do anything other tanks can. But we have less room for error.... which means less room for group error as well.
west pelican
@fresh dragon Had this discussion yesterday as well and I think there is also an issue with the mindset of many people in this discord. There is a lot of defending protection state with statements that the issue is ONLY community perception etc. and link logs of raid encounters as proof.
For players that focus mainly on m+ the rankings look pretty dire. If it were ONLY perception, there would more prot. warriors in the top. Groups pick other tanks because they make the content easier. I really love the warrior feel and playstyle, so I really hope blizzard will tune up the survivability a bit.
Got to 120 yesterday with prot pally and at 310 ilvl I feel more sturdy than my 352 warrior. It's sad.
fresh dragon
OMG again with this RAID ENCOUNTERS
man... MYTHIC +
we are speaking about MYTHIC+
sweet kettle
In m+ in high m+ this week prot warrior is dogshit
fresh dragon
so.. or ALL THE GROUP looking for tanks are IDIOTS that cannot understand US...or the problem is OURS
there are no other options
west pelican
@fresh dragon Obviously 😛
hybrid sundial
we're in a much better place than druids
sweet kettle
If they want a dk they want a dk you just move on
merry cave
🤦
sweet kettle
Also right now the only key that matters is +5 and every tank can do that
fresh dragon
@sweet kettle i can swear i NEVER seen a +9/+10 asking "WAR/DK/DH Tank"
west pelican
@sweet kettle yeah... So if you get rejected from a restaurant due to the color of your skin, you just accept that and go to the next restaurant. Because questioning the way things are is always bad?
vocal nimbus
if you are pugging 9s and 10s you are crazy
fathom marten
@west pelican while I agree with your judgement of the discord. I don't agree that we need a survivability tune up as, we need better utilities brought to the group. It just doesn't look on paper we need to be able to handle MORE damage, we handle a lot as it is.
hidden estuary
@fathom marten Than You havent tanked a kings rest 10 as prot
fresh dragon
+5 is for end run drop... but didn't u know that Weekly chest drop 980 if u complete a +10?
undone sun
380
merry cave
Then do a 10 why whinge here?
fathom marten
@hidden estuary I haven't but I don't see your point. It's a +10.
fresh dragon
380 right Thyme 😄
surreal maple
What are we even talking about anymore?
Given the choice ppl will choose tanks more fit with this weeks affixes especially considering that we are still pretty low geared as its the first week
hidden estuary
Thrav Well basically you die in a 10 kings rest but if you do a 11 waycrest or another key you dont
fresh dragon
@surreal maple im not so low geared 😐
fathom marten
So you're saying we are fine, just thst one dungeon is more difficult for us.
Hardly calls for a survivability buff
merry cave
If you went into BFA playing a prot war expecting to be top at m+ or raids, get instant invites to pugs etc etc then you're a fucking idiot quite frankly
hidden estuary
Yes because its damage output is higher
surreal maple
I mean one general nota ppl is not on a gear lvl that provides more manuverability
fresh dragon
@merry cave from INSTANT INVITES to INSTANT REFUSED there is a "middle space"that u can call "FAIR CHANCE"
surreal maple
Note*
merry cave
Ive been refused only a couple times in BFA and it happened in legion too 🤷
Build a bridge and get over it
It's their key they can invite whoever they want
west pelican
@merry cave Why is that? Blizzard does constant number tweaking all the time. "Play the class you like, numbers will change" is pretty much the mantra of every wow player. Why would you call people idiots for expecting the class they want to play at least to be close to the same level as other tanks? Or is your argument that we should all just play FOTM classes?
merry cave
I never said same level
tight tree
Well beta showed that warriors is in strange spot, blizzard unsure what to do. So it was expected. I would not main warrior without guild that support me.
fathom marten
Yeah beta seemed like a mess with prot war
tight tree
Then again, without guild i would not play WoW at all probably.
undone sun
How to never be declined from a key
Step 1: Don't Pug
fathom marten
The devs were really confused
west pelican
@tight tree yes, and that is not at least a bit concerning to you?
fathom marten
@undone sun oh come on that's not a good answer
fresh dragon
@undone sun thats a bad answer
prisma night
Imagine a dev saying that lol
raven kernel
I almost never pug regardless of the state of my class
prisma night
Same tbh
surreal maple
Sounds to me like some of you are throwing the cat out of the window on a very unfair basis as it's thus first week of mythic+ , hold your horses lets see how we do next week or the next one and then we can see if we are truly underpowered
raven kernel
Vanilla till now I've always only done things with guild and friends
fierce halo
I don't see warrior being worse than other tanks. Sure we don't have a mass grip like dk or dh but besides that I don't think we are any less tank than other tanks. Would never main something else. The problem is only people thinking we are bad.
tight tree
It is concerning to me. it will feel bad enough, i will reroll or stop playing, so far it was not the case. Expecting first round of tank changes, it will show direction they want to go. If it will be bad, then i reroll/quit. Or just do PvP only lol
fathom marten
We are just in a shitty position because we CAN tank anything other classes can but they want other tanks that seem to make thinfs easier and are more predictable
gaunt dawn
Just push your own key?
tight tree
I am not into pushing m+ though
west pelican
Guys... Honestly, It seems like most people in here agree that warriors were subpar in beta and haven't been changed. So why is there a constant "warriors are fine - git gud" mentality in here?
What is that helping?
hidden estuary
Harold the alien
surreal maple
Cause we actually know our class and understand it
fathom marten
You're saying we should keep our judgement of prot wars frim beta?
tight tree
I dont see that tbh, everyone agrees that warriors are average, good if played correctly.
fierce halo
I play the game and don't feel that my class is hindering me in any way, so why complain?
fathom marten
^
gaunt dawn
Because they are fine? Not the best. But fine.
tight tree
I would agree that they are subpar for M+ based on utility
gaunt dawn
Point out areas of contention in a feedback post with concise reasons why.
fresh dragon
ok.... just accept what we are.... well... i dunno why blizzard doesn't nerf us more.... the answer here will be anyway "we know our class and we accept it"
gaunt dawn
If you dont want to contribute concise feedback. Don’t expect change
surreal maple
^
tight tree
It is just a videogame, no need to get too emotional 😉
gaunt dawn
Use the official forums. Make a class post. All slam on it with your FEEDBACK
surreal maple
Daily whining about our current state helps no one
west pelican
Improvise adapt overcome < Influence change for the better
fresh dragon
blizzard US/WAR forum is quite on fire about us
prisma night
Eh nothing super well written tbh
gaunt dawn
Circle jerking each other doesnt help people who lurk in discord wanting to improve
sweet kettle
@west pelican your answer was idiotic
west pelican
@sweet kettle very concrete feedback, thank you
gaunt dawn
Is there an actual post that someone has made? If so, link it and chime in on that one?
Instead of spamming it out here
Put it somewhere useful
fresh dragon
AS IF blizzard READ That
gaunt dawn
They do
prisma night
Thats all we got homie
west pelican
There are loads of prominent warriors in here that I would assume Blizzard listens to more than me posting on the forums. Also, I prefer this forum to official forums.
fresh dragon
ye! to be sure the WORDS used are OK and not OFFENSIVE
tight tree
BLIZZARD: Ok. TC damage nerfed 20%, damage reduction buffed 2%. Shield block now on global cooldown. HAPPY NOW 😭 😆 🤣
junior igloo
But we EU folks can't post on official forums 😦
amber siren
Wtf @west pelican we're having this same conversation again? Actually stop shit posting, no one agrees with your assessment on prot warriors.
tight tree
Blizzard have own vision and they stick to it regardless of what good players say.
fresh dragon
i was even hoping they get some feedback from discords admin like as @fierce juniper
jovial reef
^
fresh dragon
and suggestion from them
timid jay
lul
prisma night
Woah the ping doe
jovial reef
thing is that good players, bad players and statistics tell us that prot is dogshit shrug
blizzard gonna blizzard
west pelican
@amber siren I joined the conversation because there were others that discussed it. How about you mind what you are writing and I'll mind what I'm writing. I'm not breaking any rules by having this discussion as far as I know.
tight tree
Imo they saving time/money and dont have resources to push many changes fast so they settle with "meh that will do for now"
amber siren
@west pelican Generalising the entire prot discord community has a 'warriors are fine - git gud mentality' is just you literally farting nonsense
No one has said prot doesn't have room for imporvements
But no self respecting person is going to tell you prot is broken
gaunt dawn
Every tank has had stuff taken from em
undone sun
even saying "it's fine" doesn't mean that there's not room for improvement
gaunt dawn
And every tank has areas where it could be better
undone sun
as said previously, fine means it could be better but it could be worse
gaunt dawn
Most classes have made concise feedback posts
I havent seen a warrior one
Just sayin
sick sentinel
yeah. they're fine.
fresh dragon
what's worst than to be ALWAYS REFUSED in +9/+10?
gaunt dawn
Monks suffer from magic damage and had loads of it mobility pruned
tight tree
This themes was discussed to death, but comeon, i am bored and love chatting with yall
gaunt dawn
Thats community perception
south charm
is there a way to sim as a prot warrior?
gaunt dawn
Not class balance
prisma night
Ughh this seems like a very cyclical convo
undone sun
not currently @south charm
final mist
It is, Hisoka.
south charm
ah okay ty
fresh dragon
annn ok... so @gaunt dawn its the other gamers that dont PERCEPT US correctly.... /facepalm
surreal maple
Again @fresh dragon not our affixes
timid jay
Its not blizzards fault people think warriors are worthelss in keys
south charm
So there's no way to get stat weight?
gaunt dawn
Yes
tight tree
Monks just feel better due to lack of GCD hiccups, they lost ton
fresh dragon
@surreal maple oh ok... which one is the NO DK/DH AFFLIX?
final mist
No, Ni-no.
static pilot
I've been in here for a while, a lot of the time when people come in and ask how Prot is doing or if it's undertoned the answer is 'Prot is fine you just suck balls'
south charm
ah too bad
gaunt dawn
You realise they are both significantly worse than in legion in keys?
jovial reef
other tanks are dominating in raids and m+
timid jay
Prot is fine its not especially strong but its not worthless
jovial reef
how can you say that prot is fine?
timid jay
It requires more from the player
raven kernel
Dominating lmao
timid jay
Other tanks have always "dominated"
gaunt dawn
‘Dominating’
tight tree
Noone saying "you suck balls". Everyone saying "less forgiving"
timid jay
Hell I did the entirety of legion as prot warrior, even while everyone was saying prot warriors are garbage and cant be played in raids back in NH
undone sun
as it's been for years
surreal maple
Another untrue generalisstion "prot is fine you just suck balls " it's far from the answer you can find here
timid jay
Community perception =/= reality
static pilot
I've seen suck balls, basically word for word
Honestly I was shocked how unfriendly this class Discord is to new people
fresh dragon
ok now when i queue a +9 ill whisper "please PERCEPT ME better"
gaunt dawn
I mean
west pelican
@amber siren Oh boy. Ok. Saying that there constantly is mentality like that is not the same as "generalising the entire prot discord community".
gaunt dawn
I wouldnt take you for a key
jovial reef
you will be declined for pugs no matter how geared/what spec you play
surreal maple
That u ' ve seen one idiot dosent mean we all afe
surreal maple
Are*
jovial reef
people aren't forced to take you
prisma night
Doesnt exactly help if new people ask a tldr version instead of asking specific helpful questions about how to improve
sick sentinel
lol 'dominating'
vocal nimbus
Is really this convo still alive since yesterday?
undone sun
¯_(ツ)_/¯
vocal nimbus
timid jay
This conversation is the only thing coming up in #protection anymore
sick sentinel
More than the performance, I just really don't like the way the spec feels with the gcd change. Just feels off.
final mist
This same conversation is the only thing I see whenever I come in here.
gaunt dawn
@final mist could you make a post for people to throw stuff into?
final mist
Which is often.
gaunt dawn
Instead of in here
west pelican
Yeah, it's probably nothing if it comes up ALL THE TIME. Just perception guys.
final mist
Yeah, I will Panth.
gaunt dawn
Like this is dumb
timid jay
I've been able to tank +8 without issues
¯_(ツ)_/¯
And I'm not even prot main this expansion
vocal nimbus
To be honest, I've only seen you @west pelican and one or two more complaining for around 48 hours already
final mist
I tanked +8s and higher as Prot
gaunt dawn
I wanted to skim read peoples thoughts and just see a plague of circular misrepresented information
final mist
I tanked a +10 underrot in 45 mins last night
It's fine if you know what you're doing
prisma night
Dungeon knowledge is still pretty low, if people brush up on mob packs and stuff itll all go easier
timid jay
definitely agree with you on that
west pelican
@vocal nimbus I was in here for 15 minutes at work yesterday and been here 20 minutes now. Hardly 48 hours straight. I wouldn't know, but people say this is ALL they read here, so I guess it's a topic that stirs up some discussions.
surreal maple
If u feel under powered or weak ask for tips how to improve most ppl here will be nice and help you out
Dont come here and complain
static pilot
Last time I saw someone do that they were told to roll blood
rancid palm
do we use 40 strength gem or is haste better?
vocal nimbus
I always see the same people stirring up the same discussion over and over ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Haste better
surreal maple
@rancid palm haste
rancid palm
thanks my dudes
i also want to say i finally upgraded my 300 shield to a 340 one from warfront. feelsgoodman
no longer papertank
prisma night
I would like to contribute to a prot post on forums but definitely dont have the experience to lead it tbh. Just swapped to prot from monk lel
jovial reef
Can you people explain why these stats are so extreme? They are obv not perfect but they show a pattern across all player levels https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#metric=deaths&dataset=90&difficulty=4
vocal nimbus
That means that arms warrior are bad tanks
tight tree
Well really, i am big fan of choosing whatever is FUN to play and it is very subjective. So reroll blood if it is more fun. Push warrior skill if it is more fun.
undone sun
death statistics aren't really something to really focus on, it's percentage based so it makes classes with lower representation look much worse
timid jay
What I'd assume is a lot of good players are either forced by their guild or want to reroll to the easiest/best class for progress raiding and most people will follow
That will leave players playing the perceived bad specs usually being the subpar players and enforcing the community perception further
tight tree
I play warr and monk because i find them fun. Will level Blood and VDH when i have time and see if they are fun or not. Bitching on tank discord is fun too 😉
prisma night
Just gotta prove em wrong about their perception ;)
timid jay
And as Thyme said, its percentage based and with most high end players going to different specs thats how it'll end up
And how did you know Soul 😅
gaunt dawn
People will play whatever is fotm if they are able to
People who can only play one tank will suffer
static pilot
Isn't the fact that many good players are abandoning the class a bad sign in itself?
undone sun
i'm playing what i think is fun, just so happens to be relatively strong in raids ¯_(ツ)_/¯
vocal nimbus
No
undone sun
and no
timid jay
Its a matter of cutting edge progress vs most players
Even for the average mythic guild tank choice doesnt matter too much
gaunt dawn
Tanks should be able to play multiple. Similar to how you expect dps to play all specs of their class
undone sun
most good players aren't one tricks, they almost always have options
timid jay
but for say, top 20 and above it'll matter a lot more
Especially when we are so dependent on a single gear slot
It all trickles down
See sco's ranking videos
The issue that people dont realize is that his viewpoint is vastly different to almost everyone playing the game
junior igloo
Tools wise, warriors are perfectly fine.
We have strengths as well as some weaknesses as all classes should.
We lack self healing, don't have full up-time on active mitigation and lack a repositioning tool for m+ (grip/knockback).
On the other hand we have high damage, lowest damage taken, more cooldowns than any other tank (helps to solve the low AM up-time problem), AoE stun, above average mobility, raid cooldown with Rallying Cry as well as a buff with Battle Shout.
Design wise, we have a big flaw in the talent department.
Synergy between Anger Management and cooldown enhancing talents is breaking talent balance and force a single viable build that the class has to be balanced around, limiting our options.
Numbers/tuning wise, I'm not so sure myself.
I tanked an alt run Uldir HC on a warrior and it felt ok. Arguably better than what some of our main tanks characters (monk > warrior = dk = paladin > druid would be my estimate, but it's obviously very limited experience, I personally only tanked on one of those and played ret/havoc on others).
That being said, some of the multi-class players do tell me that warrior is weaker in their experience and some warcraftlogs statistics show us near the bottom (not just participation, but also some death statistics).
Tuning is also the easiest thing to fix, although Blizzard can be a bit gun shy on the tank balance changes for some reason.
amber siren
text 😱
ember arrow
bitch i do law study this is nothing
static pilot
According to the logs at least we don't have highest damage
vocal nimbus
Not on ST
static pilot
Week 1 logs is all we have to go by atm unless you have a secret archive somewhere
amber siren
me 😃
tight tree
I dont really get progression in WoW anymore. Rank means nothing, race is no more than way for Method to make money, so personal fun is about only thing to get out of. Could never imagine wasting time on hardcore progression without any real life benefits.
static pilot
Flawed data is better than no data
amber siren
flawed assumptions are worse
vocal nimbus
Why is it so hard to understand that tank choice doesnt matter as much nowadays?
prisma night
Im glad my guild doesnt care
static pilot
Every car can finish a drag race. Doesn't mean you should participate in a golf cart
surreal maple
An actual well thought and written answer on this forum!
Have you no shame mister ?
prisma night
Im going into prot with a training montage mentality, get pumped to get better and overcome adversity to prove people wrong about us. Or to the best that we can
fathom marten
Lol
vocal nimbus
🤦
amber siren
That's not how it works
If you're in a race then sure
But are you in a competitive race?
Then who cares
static pilot
M+ is literally a race against time
vocal nimbus
The issue is, prot warr isnt a golf cart in a drag race
timid jay
Wonder if having the best AoE damage of all tanks matter in a race again time 🤔
🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔
fathom marten
@amber siren That's not how it works either. Just because I don't need or want to be first, doesnt mean I want to have a stressful time getting to the end
vocal nimbus
What about being the tankiest?
amber siren
If you're pushing high M+ then you would be using meta classes anyway, prot AoE dps or BDK grip etc etc
junior igloo
That's not really a valid metric though, Kudaku.
You can fill a "dps spot" as a resto shaman and clear mythic.
That doesn't mean that resto shamans are "viable" damage dealers, just that it's possible to get carried
vocal nimbus
🤔
amber siren
@fathom marten If you're not having fun then why are you playing the class?
runic hare
Is Ravager still a thing kek
vocal nimbus
Get that parry chance up
amber siren
timid jay
ravager was never a thing
fathom marten
@amber siren Don't get defensive bro, I like playing prot but I'm pointing out that logic doesn't apply either.
runic hare
It was for arms when you could pair it with bladestorm
surreal maple
But it spins...
amber siren
How was that defensive? I literally asked you a question?
I don't like how resto druids play
I don't go to dreamgrove and piss on them
vocal nimbus
^
runic hare
But yeah, I love playing my prot war, been maining it for years, but I do notice cracks here and there when tanking heroic, in comparison to my brm monk
vocal nimbus
People come to the place where most prot players/lovers are and just go "REEEEEEEEE PROT SUCKS REEEEEEE"
jovial reef
i assume he's not a fotm roller and doesn't like how gutted prot is even compared to post-EN prot
static pilot
^
surreal maple
I do agree that we need more options on the talents as it stands right now it's just the illusion of choice
fathom marten
@amber siren You can like how a class is played but find it more stressful then others. I'm simply pointing out that analogy wasn't right.
If you look at my posts I'm defending us more times then not.
vocal nimbus
Talking with david isnt as bad as with some people nowadays 🤦
undone sun
yikes
vocal nimbus
Still banned
:lul
David got banned and bru joined the server at around the same time
🤔
timid jay
Maybe bruu was david all along
amber siren
maybe we were all bru this whole time
fathom marten
They should just make a warrior ranged spec and make enhancement shamans a tank spec.
😬
hushed swallow
Axe Thrower
static pilot
I'd be up for that :)
timid jay
warrior healer spec when?
static pilot
'Somebody's gonna lose a head'
hushed swallow
War Drummer
static pilot
Drill Sergeant
fathom marten
War bard spec
static pilot
Yell people back to health
timid jay
:^)
hushed swallow
In a folder on his desktop labeled 'broken dreams'
fathom marten
Lmfao
raven kernel
to use healing shout effectively you have to yell on comms too
DID YOU JUST GET HIT BY THAT SWIRLIE?
timid jay
just some good old fashioned google fu
raven kernel
SOAK THAT METEOR, MAGGOT!
vocal nimbus
TMW you get your UI so messed up that you just give up and go back to the original
hushed swallow
Does block rating increase the block DR% by a flat amount?
raven kernel
block scales like armor
vocal nimbus
No
vocal nimbus
The higher it goes the less you will gain
I went from 18% to 38% DR changing a 300 with a 340
You would end up with 100% DR in no time
undone sun
yeh
raven kernel
the effective increase per point is near linear
but thats some math shit i cbf to describe
timid jay
Basically block follows the same formula as armor does Armor/(armor+k)
K in this instance is a constant depending on content
Base: 6300
M/M+: 7100.1
Uldir-normal: 7736.4
Uldir-heroc: 8467.2
Uldir-mythic: 9311.4
Shamelessly stolen from panthea 😏
prisma night
Thief!
hushed swallow
What does 'k' denote in Armor/(armor+k)?
vocal nimbus
K in this instance is a constant depending on content
junior igloo
Armor/block gets weaker.
Starting from 0, you need 6300 to achieve 50 % reduction.
Starting at 6300 (= 50 % reduction), you need 12600 more (18900 total) to half it again.
What scales linearly is the EHP in the sense that if you start at 100 HP, you can survive 100 damage.
With 6300 armor, you can survive 100 damage more for 200 EHP.
With 6300 more (12600 total), you survive another 100 damage for total of 300 EHP.
With 6300 more (18900 total), you survive another 100 for a total of 400 EHP.
So EHP scales linearly with armor/block, but you could argue that as you get higher, a constant amount of extra ehp becomes less valuable.
raven kernel
^^^^
hushed swallow
And block is just armor on top of the armor you already have?
merry cave
Except there's always that issue where blocking attacks is not consistent at all
timid jay
it works just like a second layer of armor
raven kernel
yes its a 2nd layer
timid jay
all DR's are multiplied as usual
raven kernel
so it doesn't "DR" with armor
hushed swallow
I comprehend. Thanks you
raven kernel
if your armor reduces 40% and block 40% then you take 0.6 x 0.6
topaz badger
Does ip count as active mitigation?
raven kernel
there aren't mechanics that check for AM anymore
timid jay
Dont think there are any AM checks anymore so its a moot point
merry cave
I don't think AM really exists anymore
topaz badger
Ohh ok
undone sun
technically, but it's a secondary AM and doesn't count for AM checks
wanton sentinel
The mechanic is “you might die”
undone sun
but there aren't any in bfa yet
merry cave
It seems AM was a failed legion idea
topaz badger
I kinda liked it
timid jay
But yeah for example, if you have 50% DR from armor, 40% from block and the 20% from demo shout you'd have
(1-0.5)*(1-0.4)*(1-0.2)=0.24 24% damage taken or 76% DR if you prefer
undone sun
i would like it if they normalized AM uptimes throughout the tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯
vocal nimbus
You kinda want to block shatter in zekvoz 🤔
topaz badger
I'm offtanking on fetid devourer cause dh doesn't have that many mitigations
merry cave
How's pallys uptime @undone sun
vocal nimbus
You can also block plague bomb in vectis if you look at the pool of blood
onyx vessel
dh so useless
ionic fern
Depends if you run with Seraphim or not. 😂
topaz badger
Offtanking on fetid devourer really feels like you're a slave
Basically chained to mt
onyx vessel
well prot warrior is great for offtanking that one
my monk tank parner was like i dont have any cds for it
.........
ionic fern
Gotta purify after hits tho.
raven kernel
yeah
junior igloo
@vocal nimbus
Sure, but you don't need Shield Block to "pass the AM check".
You can Bolster it to guarantee a block instead or use another cooldown.
ionic fern
We're Paladin/Monk. 😄
onyx vessel
monk just beats em with a stick and drinks beer
raven kernel
dunno if i wanna take thrashes or let monk do it
onyx vessel
hard class
onyx vessel
youd take less dmg
topaz badger
We play warr/pally but have a dh and monk offspec tanks
onyx vessel
offtanking
raven kernel
ya id take less dmg but monk is failsafe
vocal nimbus
@junior igloo i guess i set the bar for what should be AM at other level
topaz badger
We didn't do zul on HC yet, but I hated it on normal already :-P
onyx vessel
got him to under 2% on normal
junior igloo
Yeah, active mitigation is a term that isn't very useful in BfA.
I prefer to just say mitigation instead (so that people don't confuse it with AM and AM checks from the past)
raven kernel
every tank gets popped
sick sentinel
omw to kill taloc HC, any big differences from normal?
vocal nimbus
No
raven kernel
healers just need to bomb you
vocal nimbus
Just laser beams in the elevator
onyx vessel
they bomb the other tank more then me
whos a dk
.........................................
raven kernel
yeah same here lmao
junior igloo
I just realized that there is now an actual elevator boss
sick sentinel
the other tank is a prot pala
onyx vessel
monk players in prot warrior dis 
raven kernel
usually the switch heals are a tad slow whenever i taunt for tankswaps
no when i say "my monk" im referring to my co tank
lol
onyx vessel
i wonder if prot warrior will get any love
in buffs
i almost wanna remove ingore pain from the bar
does almost nothing
west pelican
@vocal nimbus what's the deal with Plater? Convince me to switch from KUI! (Also tried threat plates but didn't like it)
brazen void
strong hill
@topaz badger haven’t done it yet on either. Normal was “ kill some adds, hit the boss.... try and stay awake and then the next phase happens and all hell breaks loose “
vocal nimbus
But im not an UI expert, still fighting with it ¯_(ツ)_/¯
west pelican
Sweet. I really liked Threat Plates, but the big issue I had was to get mobs that I had aggro on be a bit transparent, but NOT my target. That is easy to do in KUI. Can you get that to work in Plater?
old dawn
I personally really like KUI so I haven't bothered to try and set up Plater
though just saying huge and broad makes me want to try Plater
old dawn
i'll steal ur xiv
timid jay
Soul I mean
vocal nimbus
:smug
timid jay
How are those emotes going for you? 😏
vocal nimbus
I just asked you about xiv 😒
vocal nimbus
If our details/chat look similar thats a coincidence
old dawn
god damn
E X E C U T E R A N G E
that's a lot of settings
I might have to poke at that
vocal nimbus
Im kinda overwhelmed
old dawn
For real
cloud bone
I didn't use it for the specific reason that you couldn't fade out all the names of people by default
summer kestrel
plater is the new sexy addon for plates?
cloud bone
there's no option for it either
summer kestrel
the one with the huge buffs and such
sick sentinel
HC taloc is fucking nothing...
sick sentinel
I'm on first group in mother
sick sentinel
well we are doing it with the guild tommorow so I am pugging today to snipe some items before the reset
fresh dragon
Mother load +8 done with 2 min till expiration...
old dawn
damn! Nice!
vocal nimbus
I was the main tank in mother and it was unexpectedly tense
fresh dragon
motherload?
vocal nimbus
There certain times were the cone and the winds happen at the same time
old dawn
because I was too slow on the final calls
our last group came through with room 2 at like
99%
junior igloo
You mean perfect timing?
fresh dragon
sometimes we get a bonus...
manic perch
i make the same face when someone asks me to tank King's Rest
old dawn
as a belf i like tanking King's Rest because of the one (1) time I get to use my Arcane Torrent
manic perch
lol
summer kestrel
the gauntlet past first boss
old dawn
that part blows
eternal solstice
Everything in that dungeon blows
manic perch
yeah man not even m 0+ fuck that shit
old dawn
rest of it is fine
manic perch
rather eat glass
fresh dragon
🐌
sick sentinel
DD: blockades even worth for uldir?
vocal nimbus
yes
uneven mason
