Holy shit....
#protection
fathom marten
chilly brook
That’s on you if you fuck up not the class
uneven mason
Red bars are where I have to fucking call of an external or we need to swap
uneven mason
Prot warrior - think ahead
wide juniper
That img doesn't load for shit.
chilly brook
Interesting I never had to call for an external
digital arrow
lol
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
restive mauve
So few externals to call for
uneven mason
on CDs (just mine)
restive mauve
#justiceforvigilance
chilly brook
@restive mauve you almost never need them.....
uneven mason
Oh, there are externals already placed in the final one, thats just one of my initial plans that i had a SS of haha
wide juniper
Definitely had an external rotation for me on Fetid
wide juniper
It's pretty sweet to have LS last so damn long
uneven mason
yeah
elfin arrow
I'm lurking cause I'm new but this convo sounds a lot like Paladin Tanks used to talk back in BC 🍿
wide juniper
LS + IP to soak 2 easy
uneven mason
You mean the guy you forced to go holy and farm full PVP Gear and perform the same role?
restive mauve
Xddddddd
uneven mason
Paladin tanks in TBC
chilly brook
I just don’t understand how people can sit here and say that warriors are ass based on their experience when there is so much data out there on WarcraftLogs to show how well they actually do if played correctly. If you’re having problems the issue is either yourself or your healers.
uneven mason
was basically someone I told to go holy orfind a different raid
elfin arrow
Look at old posts from Maintankadin, great stuff
uneven mason
I had a holy paladin using Righteous fury and full Season 3 gear AE tank mobs in Hyjal 10x better than a prot paladin
final mist
That's why.
chilly brook
@final mist you’re not wrong
elfin arrow
Hyjal is the reason paladin tanks were a thing in BC 😄
uneven mason
Using a paladin tank was a mistake in Hyjal - Holydin who was crit immune > a wasted tank slot
because protadins couldn't tank the bosses
final mist
Someone like a youtube superstar or a high level raider is like, "Warriors suck in this context" (or sometimes not even that, because some of those people are idiots too), and the average idiot takes that as "WARRIORS SUCK, DON'T PLAY THEM" and runs with it
uneven mason
they died
chilly brook
After I fixed some of my issues before continuing raid last night I felt like a literal impenetrable fortress
uneven mason
Or even Sal - "Warriros are behind on these 3 key points" and folks take that and run with it
wide juniper
I felt so much better in raid after finally replacing my 325 shield
merry cave
Lol what
I main tanked every boss except kael as a pally
Including Sunwell pre nerf
chilly brook
My Cotank was in awe at how little damage I took on fetid
restive mauve
Just use a 2h wep
rigid topaz
been lurking a few days have learned so much just by reading thanks sm lol
restive mauve
Big dmg
chilly brook
You’re welcome 😉
chilly brook
I mean like active use of SW does wonders
uneven mason
might have a heart attack 😄
chilly brook
Lol
frosty wedge
@frosty glen what issues?
chilly brook
@frosty wedge proper CD rotation
rigid topaz
i thought prot was bad but came to the realization that it was probably my fault and now i know that was the case
chilly brook
Aka using SW
frosty wedge
oh yeah, I'm no longer shy about burning CDs, lol
chilly brook
And using LS as more of a filler
restive mauve
I miss prot bladestorm
chilly brook
It’s actually stupid how little damage I take now
restive mauve
We need more dmg
gusty sky
wide juniper
It's good to not be shy about using CDs. It's better to know exactly when to use them.
chilly brook
And tbh Vectis or Zek’voz are great examples of that
That difference is pretty stark
digital arrow
i love using LS frequently but im having trouble reminding brain not to press shield block during LS lol
too used to it
chilly brook
@digital arrow that’s really the big habit to break
west pelican
@chilly brook How good is your dk friend?
uneven mason
@restive mauve We do insane damage for AE right now 😛 I miss having 5x shield slam in a row from ABT 😄 dat 1.5m ST DPS
chilly brook
A good WA goes a long way for that
@west pelican depends on what you mean by good, he’s a pretty good player and parses high 90s
fresh dragon
Griff whats ur name in game?
uneven mason
@digital arrow get Marok's WA
digital arrow
i will thanks
chilly brook
@fresh dragon Kaleggula-Tichondrius
digital arrow
whats the name of the WA?
west pelican
@chilly brook ok, seemed low on the parse you linked with healing, but didn't see the ilvl bracket rank
digital arrow
just search marok?
west pelican
just wondering, since linking a single tank pair might not be representative for the general tank pop
chilly brook
I mean self healing parse is kinda misleading
uneven mason
Lush its actually pretty close
chilly brook
If I wanted to parse high in healing back in legion on my DK I’d purposely take extra damage
uneven mason
@digital arrow its in the pins
grim prism
Prot war heal parses dont matter at all
uneven mason
Well, I mean
if you are ahead of any of the healers right now in healing on yourself
start flipping tables
because I had to do that the other night, they were leaving me with like Atonement and Beacon healing for 20+ seconds
chilly brook
@grim prism he was talking about DK
uneven mason
lets just say - I felt both pissed and at wonder that I was able to go 2 full tank rotations on G'huun with receiving only beacon heals.
chilly brook
Lol
I mean I’m more amazed that I can take the full tank buster rotation from Zek’voz in heroic without even dropping below 50%
restive mauve
5% leech POG
uneven mason
"Why is the tank at the top of the healing meters" was a joke in my guild
because my GM while playing his alt Blood DK
was ripping into the healers for the fact he was beating them
chilly brook
Lul DK healing in legion
uneven mason
and we're all like "Thats how it works"
"If yo uwere not at the top, we'd be asking you wtf yo uwere doing wrong"
chilly brook
Literally sat there doing heroic dogs and pulling 1.2m hps the whole fight didn’t need any external healing
Meanwhile in Mythic on my monk needed healing all the time
chilly brook
Truth
But so could my DK :kappa
Take the first one
Vamp the second
And roflheal out of purgatory with one death strike for the third
uneven mason
0_o
summer kestrel
or we still have to keybind a skill to use it evey month
uneven mason
you could I suppose, make a modifier macro for it
summer kestrel
intercept/victory rush was handy af
uneven mason
uhuh..
vocal nimbus
🤔
chilly brook
I’m not gonna lie though on the topic of prot warrior it can be, and has been for me at times, legit frustrating to play. But on the other hand when playing it well no other tank brings me the satisfaction.
@summer kestrel why would you?
You’d just be wasting it more often than not
chilly brook
If you VR at 90% hp that’s a waste
summer kestrel
im not asking for im dummy xdxd macro
just something convenient now that the gcd is in place
fresh dragon
question: is there a Haste soft cap ?
chilly brook
No
uneven mason
No
chilly brook
No cap period
vagrant cape
Intercept is actually a real good one, now that I think about it. That and heroic throw ensure you'll never use one on a target when you want the other (unless you mistarget)
uneven mason
164% (I think with 5/5 ITF) ??
fresh dragon
coz griff i look ur logs and i saw u have half of my haste
uneven mason
"no logically reasonable cap"
uneven mason
Because item level trumps secondaries
fresh dragon
ok
chilly brook
Haste would be ideal but strength and stam are better
And realistically all the secodnaries are reasonably good
uneven mason
so something like /cast [mod:alt]Victory Rush; Intercept
thorn hound
I'm struggling on the rotation of the prot warrior atm. Like Shield slam and Thunder clap for our rage gaining ability excluding demoralizing shout with the talent selected and charge. As such you have to be hitting both abilities soon as they are up. Followed by spamming devastate to try proc them. Never click revenge unless you want to miss a ignore pain and just die.... Anyone know how I can better playing this spec...
native karma
The only way I can enjoy playing prot right now is with devastator
summer kestrel
that's another keybind, but just in one button
uneven mason
so you can have it in that keybind
chilly brook
Man I need to save that priority system that I’ve typed out a million times
uneven mason
its 1 keybind with an alt mod
summer kestrel
nah I don't think there is another good combo now that there is in gcd
uneven mason
🤷 adapt or roll VDH
summer kestrel
alt+key is another bind for me
modern junco
should try to k eep brace for impact stacks up , if u have callous reprisal prioritize revenge
chilly brook
@thorn hound give me a minute
thorn hound
I'm just finding that I'm not able to proc enough to keep my rage up, nor does the mitigation have a sustained effect. GCD is a big killer
uneven mason
😄
amber siren
If IP is the only thing keeping you alive, you've made a mistake
thorn hound
Devastator build is very proc orientated too. It's just not worth the risk really
modern junco
use avatar in conjunction with demo shout and rage gen is NP
uneven mason
BonelishTV if you're having rage issues, you're hitting a spender too often
thorn hound
Yeah spamming Thundering clap with Avatar is awesome....but that happens ....occassionally to use
uneven mason
Avatar - use before you charge in
thorn hound
Less spender hitting is the way?
chilly brook
Demoralizing Shout>Shield Slam>TC>Revenge ONLY with proc OR it not actively tanking and have rage to dump>Devastate
uneven mason
PreAvatar - Charge - TC + SB - DS - TC - Slam(orIP) - TC etc..
chilly brook
In avatar literally basically just use TC>ability>TC>ability
modern junco
if ur charging into a big pack id recommend using LS off the bat
thorn hound
doesn't the amount of damage mitigated by ignore pain increase the more you press ignore pain?
hasty sapphire
why are there Top 10 logs with Devastator? is it still viable? i thought BV/AM combo is just too good
modern junco
and using inital rage on revenge
uneven mason
No
chilly brook
@hasty sapphire pure damage
uneven mason
lol
fathom marten
Lol
thorn hound
As in if I overlap ignore pains it gives you more ignore pain?
fathom marten
Old ip mentality
chilly brook
Not really
thorn hound
because that was what legion was?
undone sun
Well it has since been changed
modern junco
assuming ur using bolster
frosty wedge
no, spamming IP now is b/c it's such trash that it's gone as soon as you put it up :p
summer kestrel
dunno how someone can play without desvastate
uneven mason
Bonelish - IP caps at 1.3x
undone sun
Legion IP stacked 3 times the original amount
Bfa IP stacks for 1.3
uneven mason
So if you're back to back with IP you're wasting a lot of rage
fathom marten
Devastate isn't even hit that much tbh
modern junco
XD Mike
thorn hound
The crux of the problem then
fathom marten
Theres always stuff proccing
uneven mason
because most GCDs you would use on a Free SS from Devastator, would have already been a free SS from the previous GCD
chilly brook
Demoralizing Shout>Shield Slam>TC>Revenge ONLY with proc OR it not actively tanking and have rage to dump>Devastate
In Avatar: Demoralizing Shout>TC>SS>TC etc. follows the same idea as above priority with the only difference of TC becomes the second most important ability behind Demo Shout
@thorn hound
Use Shield Block on pretty much every melee
fresh dragon
immm i pratically never use devastator... do u have so much time with TC and SS both in CD?
chilly brook
Use IP for excess rage
uneven mason
All this being said @thorn hound Prot is a very "by feel" spec
fathom marten
You really dont use it that much.
thorn hound
and is anger management best atm?
undone sun
Yup
fathom marten
It's not extremely spammy
thorn hound
So more Demo shouts
fresh dragon
yes
thorn hound
yeah thought so
uneven mason
so if you FEEL you're taking too much damage, you're going to want to change up and burn more GCDs on IP (as long as its disappearing between uses)
fathom marten
You should look st the pins @thorn hound
undone sun
More bolsters and more demos
chilly brook
You don’t use Devastate much tbh @fresh dragon it’s just to fish for a proc if everything happens to be on CD
uneven mason
^
chilly brook
And more Avatar
thorn hound
ok well that one piece of information has un-cucked me... "Ignore pain does not stack like legion"
LUL
chilly brook
Which means more clapping
thorn hound
facepalm for bonelishtv
uneven mason
if I press devastate more than twice a minute, it means RNGesus has frowned upon me
thorn hound
lol
chilly brook
I can only imagine the glory of my prot warrior with more than 8% base haste
frosty wedge
lol
frosty wedge
I'm currently at 19.78% base haste + ITF
uneven mason
I'm feeling comfortable at 33%
chilly brook
Vector deflector drops
thorn hound
yeah soon as your in heroic get that 15% haste +. Then you can get rid of into the fray for.....oh wait
LUL
uneven mason
for the holydin?
chilly brook
For our enhance shaman who was spec’d for ele because he used to be ele and wants it to be good again
Non tradeable
chilly brook
FUCK THIS LOOT SYSTEM
frosty wedge
I got super lucky - the 370 from the warfront was a haste+mastery shield for me.
chilly brook
Oh then we got some 370 gloves that another warrior didn’t need
So I roll
Then he’s like oh wait they’re bracers
And I have 380 bracers
steel mauve
Idk if its just me but im not a fan of forcing personal loot in raids
fresh dragon
mmmm poll question: haste rating u hve guys?
chilly brook
So I’m like I pass
frosty wedge
chilly brook
Then the dude gets them and is like these are nice gloves
thorn hound
Does Punish's damage mitigation stack?
fathom marten
Been doing all the mythics with shields from the start. Haven't had one drop. Still using this lame 325 at a 347 ilvl
uneven mason
I'll shine my Barricade of Purifying Resolve warforge with the tears I'll cry for you Griff
junior igloo
@steel mauve
If you could trade gear to people who need it, you'd gear up faster.
frosty wedge
that's brutal
chilly brook
@uneven mason well appreciated
steel mauve
I juat prefer giving loot where it matters most at the start of a tier than leaving it up to rng
junior igloo
Everybody does.
But this way it takes longer to farm the gear.
Takes longer = more players play longer = pay subscription for longer
chilly brook
I mean I’m sure that Shield is doing well in an enhance shammy’s bag collecting dust
steel mauve
Idc that much about gear, would just rather it go to players and roles intelligently, than hoping for it to land on the right people, the gear belongs to the raid
uneven mason
intelligent gearing - healers and tanks!
chilly brook
I’m telling you rn that’s going to be a major sore point for a lot of progression based guilds
It actually demoralizes me when I see loot that I could have been excited for just go into someone’s bag and I know I had NO chance
Like legit first night we cleared normal then went into heroic second night only thing I got?
steel mauve
Would be better off making all loot tradeable in like normal+ raid content to avoid situations like that
chilly brook
A green boe ring from mother’s box
Not even a raid item
🤞🏼for good rng on the m+ chest
Weapon and shield plox
red latch
What stats should i aim for tanking mythic ?
vagrant cape
ilvl > haste > check the pins
fathom marten
@red latch pins brother
chilly brook
Ilvl>over all
undone sun
Same as usual
chilly brook
digital arrow
a 340+ shield
vagrant cape
sorry, check the pins > ilvl > haste
chilly brook
Well I’m lucky in that I got a 355 Shield from m+
chrome falcon
Can we pop avatar before the m+ timer finishes
chilly brook
Anyone else miss Shield enchant items?
chrome falcon
And have the CD reset, like DHs do?
chrome falcon
Alright thanks
chilly brook
Like I ‘member items that you’d put on a Shield that made you deal damage on block
fresh dragon
i have a question about damage taken on mother. can u help?
uneven mason
@chilly brook Looking forward to pulling that 385 DC Shoulders out of the box
smoky wave
I miss selling them, but it's one more thing I don't have to worry about doing if I'm honest.
uneven mason
Whatsup Takkero?
chilly brook
@uneven mason that would be beautiful
fresh dragon
we have quite same blocked hits
but my average damage taken is 20k+
its driving me crazy
griff armor: 7190
mine: 7623
uneven mason
Griff cast twice as many Demo shouts
chilly brook
You’re demoralizing Shout has 40% less uptime than mine
fresh dragon
mmmm
chilly brook
That would go a long way to reducing damage taken
modern junco
demo shout uptime is super important
steel mauve
Its a free 20% dr that you can extend, especially with avatar
chilly brook
Keep in mind from what I’m seeing most people aren’t going to be able to do 60%+ uptime on it
modern junco
make sure ur usiung in conjunction with avatar to keep it up
chilly brook
But 50% should be easily obtainable
modern junco
u should have a window to use it without avatar then with avatar altenrating
uneven mason
Like, Takkero - you were just leaving DS on CD and not using IP
uneven mason
you have almost TRIPLE the Revenge casts Takkero
that's bad juju
Take Revenge off your bar
forget its a thing
fresh dragon
mmmmmm can u check if they were free rage cost cast?
modern junco
revenge is garbo on st and should only be used to keep up callous reprisal
fresh dragon
mmmm .. i see
modern junco
its worth using it to keep up CR if u have that traited
uneven mason
He does not
modern junco
then take it off thebar lol
chilly brook
I mean it’s not horrible to use if you’re down to nothing else besides it and Devastate and it’s free
uneven mason
13% of yours are Revenge
modern junco
yea
uneven mason
right but to break the habit
of using Rev
But his question was - damage taken
Damage taken is off by a lot because he was playing offensively
not a bad playstyle, but if his goal is to take less damage, than Revenge should go byebye
fresh dragon
im here to ask and learn from ppl better than me..
modern junco
better to ask and improve
uneven mason
But yeah, basically, you were sitting on CDs
fresh dragon
question about CD...
chilly brook
Well don’t get us wrong we’re not trying to dump on you
uneven mason
get some weak auras, monitor your CDs, have em light up bright when they're available
chilly brook
I could even do better with last stand usage on mother
uneven mason
because warriors are basically a big cooldown wheel
we rotate them
and take laughably less damage than other tanks
junior igloo
Not using cooldowns as often is really the big difference there.
You seem to save Demo Shout for Avatar, but it has half the cooldown, so you should use it twice as often. You had 7 fewer casts than Griff.
Griff had 1 more SW, 1 more LS and multiple externals (3x Ironbark)
About 20 more IP casts is 500k damage right there
fresh dragon
i usually use LS and SW when im "low of healt" OR on dog boss to let SB charge back (coz LS last 15 sec)
chilly brook
That fight was actually before I fixed my cooldown rotation
modern junco
LS should be used (with bolster) as a shield block CD when they are on cd
uneven mason
so basically you use it when you have both charages on CD
when you come out of LS you'll have 1.5 charges of SB
chilly brook
Basically you should probably be able to get 3 SB’s off at the beginning and then pop IP to let it recharge
uneven mason
and be able to block for 12 more seconds,
grim prism
Yeah LS is a rotational blocker, not an "oh shit" button
modern junco
so while it does heal u, its better used as a nother shield block button rather then oh god im dying
grim prism
You use it to keep from having an "oh shit" moment in the first place
chilly brook
At my lower levels of haste I have like 1-2 globals it so between my third charge of SB coming up after using the first two
grim prism
Not to recover from one
uneven mason
Yeah the damage prevented by the 15s of block overshadows the 30% heal by an order of magnitude
modern junco
yep
chilly brook
@fresh dragon basically take to heart the idea that we exist to stop damage before it happens
uneven mason
I mean, I'll be honest, I have overlapped LS into a SB
because I needed the heal
but that isn't very often
modern junco
it happens mostly in large pulls
chilly brook
It’s the most true statement about prot warrior
uneven mason
It mostly happens on G'huun and 3 healers get feared
modern junco
we arent very good at taking sustained damage in a large pull
uneven mason
<
uneven mason
TFW you're at 25% health and see that 3/4 standing healers have GREY debuff boxes on their uniframs and the 4th is OOM
hitting Rally LS and a healthstone like a once a fight LoH
kind urchin
Unless you already used LS as a shield block buffer then rip.
chilly brook
@fresh dragon looking through your timeline it seems like there are also some missed GCD’s or in some cases some longer periods of not casting anything, part of that could be just simply down to being blown about the room but as a general rule the less wasted GCD’s the more rage you have to spend on defensives to reduce damage intake
uneven mason
Gauarok lucky it was at the beginning of the tank swap
I mean
while tanking G'huun you generally won't have him logner than your 2 SBs at any given time
chilly brook
Then you pop SW and hope for the best 😜
uneven mason
Unless something happened
uneven mason
did normal holding him to 9
because we're masochists
9 on normal feels like normal swapping pace on Heroic tho
so it was more like punching rocks to toughen up
rotund heart
Quick question regarding bolster. On Active Mit checks, does LS/Bolster count as Act. Mit?
final mist
There are no active mitigation checks in BfA.
rotund heart
Oh okay, well that answers that. Thank you!
uneven mason
Your Active Mitigation check is - that at the start of progression most bosses are going to 2 shot you if you don't have something rolling
Myth, Fetid and Zul very specifically are basically trucks that hit you with other trucks
rotund heart
Okay, thank you sir!
lucid kelp
is there a clear winner between two equal tier traits? I can get Blood Siphon or Wind's of War, and both are rated as A tier on the guid.
uneven mason
Zul I made the mistake of going "This dude is a caster he must hit like a sissy" - ate 2 57,000 hits plus his DoT not making that mistake
grim prism
You didnt immediately think "this guy is a caster i'm going to get my shit blown in"?
uneven mason
I was well prepared with IP and sSpell reflect
I was not 100% thinking "SB is on CD I should hit last stand off the bat"
ashen flower
Im still a sad panda that not a single uldir azerite part has thunderclap trait :/
uneven mason
gives yo ua reason to run M+
"carrot on a stick"
gotta put some hot shit in there
get everyone involved.
ashen flower
Yea thats clear
lucid kelp
the weekly chest 'can'
uneven mason
which probably means you need to push keys and learn the content
if yo uwant that juicy DC trait
ashen flower
Im at m+6 atm
uneven mason
pushing to +7 gets you possibly 370 Azerite pieces
ashen flower
With 345 ilvl
lucid kelp
i am at 4! gunna be pushing with my guild later today tho. and hopefully not get bodied
ashen flower
Tanking 6 wasnt a problem tbh. I just had feeling we was missing dps
round vortex
+11 Temple Key. Never - EVER again...
lucid kelp
I personally just don't wanna do Wayrest manor ever again this week
ashen flower
Holy fuck. Gz. Sick
round vortex
That place is SHIT
ashen flower
Waycrest with sanguine is aids
vagrant arrow
and motherlode is cancer dung
lucid kelp
Moterlode's not bad.....if the group follows me closely and doesn't accidentally pull the entire dungeon
ashen flower
Mother is much beter then waycrest tbh
lucid kelp
also Im salty as crap
lucid kelp
A holy Pally in my raid group got a 385 Shield in uldir last night
so..Im a bit jealous
ashen flower
Siege is also ez yea exept when monkehs stun
round vortex
Pogchamp in raid as well. lol only base ilvl but i upgraded from 325 LOL
lucid kelp
See Wayrest is my favorite Dungeon.......it just sucks with Sanguine XD
ashen flower
Same
vagrant arrow
and except commander + destroyer combo
ashen flower
Do u lads use talents builds from wowhead guide or?
vagrant arrow
heal aint enought for that
uneven mason
so far this week Sanguine has been an exercize in trying to convince my DPS to stop snaring/stunning shit in a pack and trying to AE them down
vagrant arrow
would u suggest darkmoon blockades
uneven mason
Oh look 2 mobs were left up, and just got to stand in the 8 puddles...now they're full HP and are casting GUESS I"LL RUN EVEN FARTHER BACK
TFW the Druid you bring with because Typhoon - is specced into ME
wide juniper
The priest blast has been fun with sanguine
I don't wanna LOS them, just blast it please.
fresh dragon
Moterlode i actually use the tactics to do 100% farm before 2nd boss
than skipp al trash
wide juniper
yeah, use that soulstone
fresh dragon
on 3rd and 4th boss
frosty wedge
I've done two 7s, so hoping for good azerite pieces, lol
lucid kelp
while I would like a good azerite peice...I think Im ight prefer a solid trinket like Howler
grim prism
Not gonna lie fellas
round vortex
Rank one mofo's LOL
grim prism
I think I might just pug MOTHER for the azerite helm and spam M+ for loot
chilly brook
@round vortex what boss?
grim prism
I'm not seeing anything in Uldir worth farming that doesnt have an alternative in M+ drop tables
frosty wedge
ha, yeah I went from a 335 to .a 370 shield yesterday
yeah @grim prism that's the beauty of m+
I don't have to raid
chilly brook
@azure oxide Gratz fam
round vortex
@chilly brook Temple + 11
chilly brook
Lucky man
azure oxide
no not me
chilly brook
Oh
chilly brook
Ah
azure oxide
the 1 that posted above
round vortex
@azure oxide Dude im so happy agter running AD repeatedly and getting nothing lol
azure oxide
baratus
chilly brook
Here I was thinking it was a raid boss lol
azure oxide
lol
grim prism
Like I was already spamqueueing Atal just based on looking at it, but I did some homework to doublecheck it
And yeah
dusk locust
do you guys go right or left first in atal'dazar
grim prism
Pretty much anything you could want drops in AD, UR, or KR
round vortex
This from 325 lol
wide juniper
I do rezan first for now
round vortex
Uldir Heroic. 3rd Boss
round vortex
I coined it as well jsut to add to the pogging skillz
grim prism
@wide juniper ive been doing rezan first but it theoretically saves a good 15 seconds if you do side boss first and then jump off the bridge
I used to do rezan > priestess but really those trashpacks are just not worth doing in pug groups
chilly brook
I did a 10 Tol’Dagor and that’s where I got my 355 shield from
grim prism
Expecting them to LoS, kick mantle, avoid AoEs, and still kill the golems first
Its just too much for pugs to comprehend lol
chilly brook
I just didn’t tank it
old zephyr
I do rezan (BL), 80% of trash, then volk (BL), Last 20%,priest and end boss (BL)
chilly brook
😜
round vortex
My AD path.
chilly brook
My guildies seem to like my arms DPS
dusk locust
yeah that's the path i used to do, but i had a pug freak out when i went left instead of right
grim prism
I used to do priestess but now I firmly believe right side is way easier
dusk locust
like i went left, dps went right and pulled the trash to the right and died
grim prism
You dont even need to skip
round vortex
and you don't have to do the pack ni front of totem boss
chilly brook
If you CC on right side it’s easier
chilly brook
^
round vortex
Ok ok yes i get it - its easy to kill
dusk locust
it's rare the group listens when you ask them not to kill totem first
round vortex
I don't struggel with it for the record
grim prism
You only have to do one thing at once as opposed to three things at once on left
dusk locust
also rare for them to kill the big guy first when you go left
round vortex
I am just saying - there is a skip which means u dont even have to fight it. So ill take that
grim prism
Do you shroud it or just squeeze by @round vortex
uneven mason
AD trash was double spawning for me
round vortex
Lock portal thru the wall. You have to jump when you click it
uneven mason
was quite uh, irritating
round vortex
Yeah i saw that today @uneven mason
frosty wedge
yeah @uneven mason it was double spwning on heroic and reg mythic
round vortex
i did get to do 58k DPS on the priestess trash tho haha
chilly brook
AD has had so many issues with m+
uneven mason
^^
grim prism
LOL
frosty wedge
I did 47k DPS on the pack before priestess in a +0, lol
uneven mason
Yup
grim prism
God I love playing a meme class
chilly brook
I remember doing 40+k on mother lode at like 330 ilvl and people flipping out
grim prism
Gotta say though I'm having a fuck of a time getting accepted into rando queues
Lots of shitters see the brown nameplate and autodeny
chilly brook
Welcome to the warrior misconception
grim prism
Like bro I'm 352 and this is a +4
dusk locust
yeah i had some group go "oh we're carrying a warrior tank?" noped out of there
grim prism
I could AFK this
errant coral
how do you guys deal with the atal dazar trash which does the poison aoe thing before the totem boss? on mythic+
chilly brook
Yea there’s always a long ass pause before I get an invite
dusk locust
same
chilly brook
Then again I rarely pug
grim prism
@errant coral CC undeads, kill hexers and shit, THEN kill totem
Aoe doesnt start until totem dies
errant coral
i mean with no CC undead 😛
grim prism
Freeze them
errant coral
we had a mage lock and rogue
grim prism
Or just facetank until the other shit is dead
uneven mason
Balsaq I was in a guild group for a but and the pug healer we had to get for a +6 TD (cause our healer had to sleep) started bitching about having a warrior tank
grim prism
Mage can sheep them no?
grim prism
CC golems, kill witch doctors first
dusk locust
do you guys open the gate and do the 3 fire casters in Tol Dagor or do you go a different way? that always seems to turn into a disaster pulling extra mobs
uneven mason
Turns out he had been categorically refusing to heal any warrior since the Xpac launched
We opened the gate
chilly brook
I open the gate f
uneven mason
Kill the room before them
grim prism
Shitters gon' shit
chilly brook
As long as people aren’t stupid
uneven mason
CC 2 casters kill 1 at a time
chilly brook
It’ll be fine
grim prism
People always seem surprised when we clear shit with a war tank
dusk locust
yeah i thought about killing the room before them just for safety
uneven mason
I had a rogue, shaman, mage and Warlock
dusk locust
i might start doin that
uneven mason
you can also open the gate and shroud
chilly brook
Yea I can tell you my healers in guild we’re surprised when I wasn’t taking much damage
uneven mason
skip that hallway
chilly brook
My GM was like the only one who trusted
dusk locust
i always have to pull out logs and show external healing required
chilly brook
He was like “I’ve seen you tank on all the classes you parse like a boss on your monk so whatever you wanna play you can play”
uneven mason
eh, tanking metrics are goofy
chilly brook
Yea I had to bust out the logs for one of our healers
And then when he was talking about it seemed like I was taking a lot of damage I had to point out that we didn’t have a dedicated tank healer at the time lol
grim prism
Tanking metrics are goofy but healers love seeing low EHRPS on any class
dry epoch
So what happened that everyone hates prot now? used to main prot in legion but changed to arms, have no idea about the changes
young harbor
does anyone have any suggests for the room after the first boss in king's rest, with the dead kings spawning (4 groups) i know there are a few mobs that can be cc'd. but the room as a whole seems like complete aids on toast
chilly brook
@dry epoch long story short sco said they weren’t as good as other tanks
west pelican
@young harbor Didn't have that much issues in there on +6. It's like most packs, don't let them touch you 😃
chilly brook
So everyone took it as they suck and aren’t viable
young harbor
yeah we struggle in there yesterday on a 6, missed our timer by like 40 seconds
dry epoch
But were there any significant changes to the class?
young harbor
it made me sad
young harbor
do you kite them back to the boss room or anything? or just derp around in the little rectangle room
chilly brook
I mean IP works differently other than that no
dry epoch
diff in a good way?
west pelican
Yeah, back towards boss room a bit and leap / get pulled by priest back etc. used hunter slow trap to kite. You can take some hits with full mitigation up ofc
chilly brook
If they decide to buff the absorb cap
west pelican
just burn down fast and kite if you have to. No tricks to it afaik
young harbor
yeah thats what we did too, seemed a bit overtuned to me. compared to the rest of the place
west pelican
the last miniboss before the last boss was harder for us, at least as warrior tank
west pelican
talked about this earlier but we did it with the same group and a monk tank (same ilvl, 350 ish) and it was no issues. Didn't even have pain sup for it
young harbor
we wiped twice on that room i was asking about, the healer kept getting mc'd
eager hedge
prisma night
chilly brook
I mean but that strength
steel mauve
The only saving grace for spore would be the str, the heal isnt good
chilly brook
I really want a mog that works with the Barricade of Eternity
chilly brook
I’ve never been a fan of the fact that nothing matches it
prisma crane
lol
uneven mason
Many shields over the years just look like complete ass tbh, I Hate trying to find mogs for shields because most of them have been designed with casters in mind
prisma crane
well i just keep my same look forever
i've had 2 mogs (apart from random stupid ones to fuck with people) since 2013*
chilly brook
I’ma need to get a generic MoP mog going since I’m a panda
grim prism
Yeah pretty much @dry epoch. WoW playerbase are a bunch of kneejerking crybabies who chase FotM classes and bandwagon ideas every tier
Ooh wow thats a lot of discord lag
dry epoch
Sad
grim prism
But yeah, basically we just got the shit end of the groupthink stick this tier
chilly brook
I used to get declined all the time on my BrM last xpac so nothing new to me
dry epoch
haha
grim prism
To make matters worse, it does take more effort to play prot at a minimally acceptable level, so bad prots are going to stand out much more than bad other-tanks
chilly brook
I’m not complaining
I appreciate something that requires effort to get good results
grim prism
But merely by virtue of being in this discord you already have a leg up on 80% of the playerbase
chilly brook
Which is why I played monk in WoD
grim prism
Most people struggle to clear normal and cant timer +4s
grim prism
The problem is that those people who are barely scraping by will look at what the top 1% of players are doing and think it applies to them
Honestly i think we in Skyhold and other class discords strongly overestimate the average player
You can look it up on raider.io, im not being elitist although i know it sounds that way
"The average wow player" is frankly kind of shit
chilly brook
Well the overwhelming majority of the playerbase is just simply bad
It’s just the truth
uneven mason
Not bad, they just don't optimize
chilly brook
I mean that’s being bad
grim prism
No, its both
grim prism
And the majority of that bellcurve cant clear normal
sick sentinel
tbf, you can be the average player and still be bad
chilly brook
Trialed some hunter in normal who got put on orb duty during g’huun and oh boy was it bad
I told him to go long like super long like basically almost all the way
dry epoch
whats a good mythic score in raider io?
grim prism
Thats what i'm saying @sick sentinel
sick sentinel
Exactly
chilly brook
By the time the orb spawned I leaped once and already was past him
grim prism
"The average player" does LFR and is challenged by M0
uneven mason
The average wow player is probably still above the median performance
chilly brook
Then finally he got past me, I tossed it to him and he just ran and held onto it for like 8 seconds after being rooted by it and finally went “am I stunned or something?”
uneven mason
I mean, the majority of wow players are below average is what I was trying to say
grim prism
And again, the average raider still isnt clearing normal
stark sage
i've seen the average player they are lucky to parse 30s across the board
uneven mason
but the average raider is above the median for the average player.
grim prism
Yes
chilly brook
The average player blames everyone else instead of looking at themselves first
chilly brook
I wouldn’t say that’s everyone
stark sage
anyone with an ego
uneven mason
I've become quite good at self depreciation since BFA launched
chilly brook
Anyone who’s playing prot at a decent level most likely doesn’t do that
uneven mason
"why'd I die - oh, because I fucking wasted rage on IP instead of waiting for SB"
grim prism
The average player autodeclines ilvl 350 prot wars because they arent a good enough tank to clear their +3 key
chilly brook
Since a majority of how well it goes for you is in your hand
uneven mason
I wouldn't want to do a +3 key with average wow players
stark sage
i would say the majority of prot players blame blizzard because they dont know how to play the class
grim prism
There was a major paradigm shift and a lot of people still havent "gotten it"
stark sage
but that is the majority and average protection player
uneven mason
I Mean, we do have to give props to the folks who at least come to Skyhold
and ask "Why's prot so shit"
then actually listen
tothe "maybe its you"
grim prism
As soon as you see "why is our rage gen so awful" you just know
uneven mason
"Cause you're specced into Devastator you pleb"
chilly brook
I mean what do we have to give to the ones who try and say that we’re terrible no matter what we show them?
uneven mason
I use those to break the bordom at work
chilly brook
Lol I feel you @uneven mason
uneven mason
esp the ones who are like "BUT DKS SELF SUSTAIN"
grim prism
Since we're just devolving into pure gripes at this point
uneven mason
and then you know, dude hasn't done a dungeon yet
grim prism
My favorite are the ones who are like "i'm 345 and I'm blocking everything and using LS rotationally and not ragecapping and doing everything perfectly so why am I squishing"
Because at least one of those things isnt as true as you think it is? Lol
uneven mason
more or less
grim prism
WTB buttshield
uneven mason
some times
its because the ironhull dude
got into your rear arc
and decided to take a row in your back end
chilly brook
Does anyone actually know what class sco is playing?
uneven mason
I kite those throwers in Freehold
because I got sick of them hitting me in the back when I got tossed
chilly brook
Because for someone who thought warriors weren’t that great he played and awful lot of warrior in beta
🤔
uneven mason
He just thought Warriors were not optimal
west pelican
@chilly brook he's got pally, druid and monk @ 120
grim prism
Idk how he's been doing lately but I saw his warrior alt in NH
And frankly he sucked shit
Wrong talents and frequent wipes due to tsnk deaths
chilly brook
That moment when Sco is a genius and he knew how good warriors were but to throw blizz off the nerf train he said they’re not great
:kappa
grim prism
So idk why he is regarded as the end-all-be-all of every tank spec
uneven mason
thats what I said
But all in all, its because he WAS the premere tank for mythic raiding
grim prism
Method exists to generate ad revenue, not to provide good info to the playerbase
chilly brook
There are always better players
grim prism
Yerp
uneven mason
Because last tier that Chinese guild beat them to the punch
probably cost them thousands in ad revenue
chilly brook
I thought method was first in antorus?
grim prism
Ah
uneven mason
Method is generally blackout
grim prism
I misunderstood as well lol
uneven mason
most world first pushers are blacked out
uneven mason
but some folks went "hey we can make $$$ if we put this shit up"
chilly brook
Because they don’t wanna give up their edge
uneven mason
right
grim prism
Here's what blows my mind about the whole thing
steel mauve
I must be lucky though because i havent been declined for a m+ yet 🙃
junior lichen
When is it worth to go for ilvl upgrade compared to stats?
uneven mason
always
chilly brook
Bro I got declined to m0’s at 348 ilvl before m+ even released
@junior lichen unless it’s a ring
grim prism
Mythic WF raiding is just as much (or more) about raw pull count as opposed to actual skill
uneven mason
for armor pieces ilvl is king
junior lichen
Really?
grim prism
Not to imply that world first raiders arent good
chilly brook
Yes
grim prism
@junior lichen yes, armor > all
uneven mason
the caveat to that is, Defening Crash trait - is worth 25~ (2 tiers) of ilvl on Azerite armor
junior lichen
Aight okay, thanks guys ^-^
chilly brook
Strength is way too valuable to us to pass up
grim prism
Secondaries are all squished in relative value so stat budget is probably more important than secondary itemization in most cases anyway
uneven mason
for rings high haste is worth 5 - 10 ilvls depending what its up against and where your stats are, but generally don't give up haste for crit on rings under 10ilvls
grim prism
So even for rings i wouldnt do more than +5 or +10
steel mauve
Ya i agree @grim prism many of the players in WF guilds are just as good as your avg player, but they are willing to put in hundreds of pulls on a first tier boss just to finally get that one pull where every thing just clicks
uneven mason
trinkets are a bit more odd but anything with high str and haste is solid.
erm
Ironkuting that isn't the case
chilly brook
I’m still hella proud of my 64% uptime on Demo Shout on mother
uneven mason
WF players are indeed better
junior lichen
I loose 2% haste, 2% cers and 4% matery and gain a 100 ilvl boost
uneven mason
their performance is insane
junior lichen
10*
uneven mason
Its not even the pulls it the fact many of them have timing of abilitives and movment to an artform
chilly brook
How do you lose 3 secondary stats
thin mortar
WF players are proof that the little stuff matters
chilly brook
Or are you replacing multiple pieces of gear?
grim prism
Yeah they are way the fuck better than "the average player" as we've discussed this AM, but they arent much better than the "good players" in their respective class discords
chilly brook
If you’re replacing multiple pieces and gaining 10 overall ilvls then hell yea do it
junior lichen
Replacing 5 pieces
uneven mason
because beating mythic raids in the first few weeks before gear has a chance to "catch up" requires perfection
mild badge
I have a question regarding the level 90 talent for prot, which is better out of all of them? I've been running with Booming Voice.
grim prism
@mild badge keep doing that
uneven mason
Mako - BV is the best in all situations
chilly brook
BV>all unless farm
mild badge
Ty :3
uneven mason
use DS on CD
chilly brook
And attempting to push parse
junior lichen
@chilly brook ty
uneven mason
more or less.
strong hill
BV all day everyday
grim prism
Devastator is MARGINALLY better damage on single target ONLY
Also a survivabillity loss
uneven mason
but is a RPS and survivability loss
Vengeance is just kind've burning garbage in all situations
grim prism
So yeah keep doing BV
chilly brook
I definitely feel like I do less damage ST than other tanks though 😢
strong hill
And ?
chilly brook
I like seeing nice numbers
uneven mason
If you want to see big numbers as a prot warrior
turn on the Scrolling combat text for your co tanks damage taken 😉
strong hill
I wouldn’t worry about your damage compared to the others.
chilly brook
But iirc punish is a decent ST DPS increase
@strong hill always worry, you can always improve
@uneven mason lol
Honestly on fetid I could probably go for max DPS
Since he’s not actually hitting me all that hard with thrash
chilly brook
😉
I guess I shoulda been a prot warrior from the beginning then since this has always been my mindset
strong hill
@chilly brook we can always improve , and I think I mistook your statement as you can’t do the damage numbers of other tank classes ( dh dk etc)
sick sentinel
i was all in dps gear for argus and aggra M 😄
uneven mason
My monk tank - "I need to take thrash, his normal melee does too much damage"
grim prism
I think im gonna have to live vicariously through you this tier @chilly brook
chilly brook
Lolololol
uneven mason
Which makes sense
grim prism
Since I dont have a guild to pad with
chilly brook
@uneven mason that’s gold
grim prism
I mean run with
chilly brook
@strong hill well from what I’m seeing we’re not st powerhouses but all the other tanks seem to be pretty close
uneven mason
better than rapid hard hits
gonna try and line up a whole lot of BoPs for below 50%
cheese that Thrash
strong hill
@chilly brook most raid leads I’ve run with usually dint look at the tanks dps numbers and say “ damn it , that’s why we wiped at 1%” they look at the dps that stood in s smash or a puddle of bad because they were tunnelling.
junior lichen
When is it worth losing deafening crash
chilly brook
~25 ilvl upgrade
@strong hill well yea but on a dps fight it does still matter, not to mention damage is directly tied to threat, if you have one tank playing their heart out and one twirling his thumbs you’re going to run into issues
grim prism
Any other hordies get fucked by their 370 cache?
chilly brook
There’s no longer an excuse to not maximize your DPS as a tank (within reason of course)
strong hill
@uneven mason let me know how the bop chain works. WTB wod monk guards
grim prism
I lost DC on my chest and had to refoge both of offspec sets to make it work
chilly brook
Lol monk guard in WoD was hilarious
strong hill
Lol ya. On butcher it was amazing
chilly brook
I got some 380 bracers /shrug
strong hill
@grim prism I got a 370 shield.
chilly brook
All you lucky bois and your shields
I say that as I’m sitting here with a 355 and people are still stuck with sub 330s
strong hill
Ya went from a 325 to a 370. Huge buff
uneven mason
the only motivation I have is that I'm not a Dark Iron Dwarf yet
and the table has that 1500 rep
uneven mason
they don't feel rewarding at all
vivid sage
expeditions are my least favourite part of this expac
the warfront didn't feel too bad yesterday
uneven mason
once I'm exalted with Honobound/7th they better increase that carrot to some frigging Whiskey or I'm done with em
vivid sage
but i feel like i might find it tedious fairly soon
strong hill
I don’t mind them , I wish they were done differently. As in a little more story ,
chilly brook
I’d like them better if they had a cooldown and gave a ton of AP
uneven mason
or being assured a bag every time
No CD - ton of AP yes.
right now having a "chance" at a bag with 1 coin in it
feels horrible
chilly brook
Oh and if they actually had some sort of progression tied to them
chilly brook
Like idk cosmetics or shit
uneven mason
wheres th rewards
chilly brook
Not this rng bs
chilly brook
Rng isn’t progression
strong hill
@chilly brook exactly. After you did one you get a quest to do some more exploring there, it’s basically his fast can you run and grab as many mobs as you can
chilly brook
Literally they shoulda taken the token system of wotlk dungeons and put the cosmetics in there
Not as rng
mild badge
I just want the fish transmog weapon from the expeditions
frosty wedge
@grim prism I did get fucked by a mythic 7 if that helps any - did a waycrest and got the str and on use crit trinket... because apparently that's on the prot loot table?
frosty wedge
Sure, but it's also our current worst stat
uneven mason
yeah
frosty wedge
all stats do soemthing for everyone
uneven mason
Blizzard doesn't give a shit what is bad or good
frosty wedge
but loot specs should be aimed towards gear that's aimed AT the spec
uneven mason
Like my wife getting upset for getting crit on her healer "Why is that a thing, MASTERY IS THE HEALING STAT"
Like uh, well not for everyone
grim prism
Remember
frosty wedge
not just "yeah sure they can use that"
grim prism
Crit isnt bad, just inconsistent
uneven mason
^^
Crit is extremely strong in M+
just
not reliable
the more reliable a stat is, the stronger it is for us
grim prism
I mean honestly if you just farm AD and only AD youre going to get BiS-or-almost-BiS in half your slots
uneven mason
hehe
grim prism
Howler is the only good thing that drops in TD (it has a shield, but the one in AD is better)
uneven mason
I want that howler
grim prism
Siege is another pointless run for us
uneven mason
on use
rotund heart
I got lucky with a 380 howler from a 2 last night. Tears of joy were had.
frosty wedge
I have a 340 howler
grim prism
Waycrest and Siege drop literally nothing of value
uneven mason
😡
glossy beacon
what is this howler you speak of
frosty wedge
Jes's Howler
frosty wedge
str with a vers on use
uneven mason
its a sizeable chunk of Str and Vers
uneven mason
more than 1%
frosty wedge
I think it's more than that?
uneven mason
way more
grim prism
Oh it stacks on you? I misread the tooltip
I thought it just gave some to allies as well
frosty wedge
yeah, so you get the normal number, as do your allies... but you also get an additional 160 for every ally it hits
or something near there