Maybe that's what It was more then anything
#protection
fathom marten
raven kernel
I bet you were being infected by people
prisma night
^
tight tree
Vectis we swapped when debuff ran out, 1-2 stacks
fathom marten
Fuckin hell I'm pissed my logs weren't working
tight tree
1 is way easier to survive and doable most of the time
hot locust
we just had our whole raid stacked on his back left and move to back right when add spawns were a thing. Never even cared who omega vector jumped to. Tanks never left front.
tight tree
Zek'vos was troublesome if i was not topped before combo
hot locust
Zekvos you can LS every combo
raven kernel
How do u be not topped
fathom marten
@hot locust hmmm really?? We were having the tank swap bring the add over to melee cleave the boss
tight tree
Healers complain, other tank is DK and they dont have to heal him that hard as me ;/
hot locust
LS+SR is all you need.
prisma night
Its like not being topped for thrashes, hope healers doing something lol
hot locust
Melee could still cleave the add when we were in front.
tight tree
Was not topped for trashes often too, tbh, but i hate blaming healers. I hate that feeling that i rely too much on others. That creates conflicts
hot locust
Welcome to BFA
fathom marten
You're saying the the tank would just taunt the add in place??
tight tree
Always could play better ofc but literally cant do shit in some situations, and that is depressing
hot locust
No we'd taunt it to the front of boss where we were
prisma night
Yeah like if youve used your mitigation as well as you can and you die. Not much left for you to "improve" on
raven kernel
Not being topped for thrashes is errrr......
There's literally no other dmg
Clearly a huge healer issue if they can't top u between thrashes
prisma night
Or priority is off
fathom marten
Right okay yeah that's what we were doing but sometimes I'd have to charge a nd SS the add because I'd lose aggro from dps nuking it
prisma night
Other people getting hurt by stupid shit
raven kernel
Your dps shouldn't be nuking it instantly
fathom marten
Really?
raven kernel
They should be focusing dps on boss and when the add comes then they hit their cleave abilities
raven kernel
Idk the add should die by then
tight tree
Overall i just die too often and use all externals. That does not feel great, and i been in shitty mood after 2 days of heroic Uldir. 350 ilevel. Not best warrior, sometimes i mismanage my stuff but overall feel less reliable.
fathom marten
@raven kernel what should the dps look like atm for normal ?
amber siren
It needs p much near perfect play now, just how they've made the play style unfortuntely
raven kernel
No idea man just browse some logs
tight tree
Warlocks now soulstone me by default, and DK cotank tries to take more stacks of stuff than me to make my life easier.
fathom marten
@raven kernel fair enough. Thanks for the tips.
fathom marten
What Rybie said....we just have much less room for mistakes then most.
hot locust
@raven kernel doing that shit before nerfs was spook as fuck.
fathom marten
@raven kernel can you post your logs sometime? Or does any more experienced prot wars willing to do this?
raven kernel
I'm doing a 2nd heroic run tonight for alts and mains who were benched
I'll get a log of that
Gotta ask my Co tank to let me take mother and taloc tho
fathom marten
I'd appreciate it. Prot war log in there though right ?
fathom marten
Okay cool!
hot locust
I'd offer my logs but I was running devastator the whole time :^)
raven kernel
Monkas
hot locust
nope
raven kernel
He's being lazy
hot locust
10/10 wont do again
fathom marten
Honestly I dont mind not using dev talent. I thought it would be really spammy but it's not at all
hot locust
Same here, just like it overall personally. Can play without and enjoy it though.
fathom marten
I do wish they would actually implement in our rotation better. Like, have it do something.
That's what I find most different about other tank classes. It seems we have more single abilities doing different things. As opposed to let's say DHs veg cleave ability(cant remember the name) healing you as well.
Like they make up for it with the DC azerite trait to make it much more useful to spam TC while demo is up.
Stuff like that...I guess that's more a synergistic example though.
fathom marten
No you're completely right
I would agree.
I'm just venting right now is all. Seriously the only real thing that bugs me is just the lack of fluidness. It feels really awkward at times with the gcd and like I said abilities being very specific and not diverse.
I love prot war though
So dont be mad
hot locust
I just hate the block CD nerf
fathom marten
Lol
hot locust
Everything else is fine with me at this point and I'm too lazy to keep being angry about IP.
fathom marten
Well it's like what more can you say about the IP change at this point
tiny sphinx
-IP off global
-self heal
-battlecry
give one back or fuck you blizzard forever
fathom marten
Lol
tiny sphinx
or avatar off global
also avatar doesn't actually break all roots
so it's a crock of lies
fathom marten
Dude yeah
bleak breach
how important is ilvl atm compared to haste?
fathom marten
I was going to come on here to complain about that actually haha
Ava breaks like one kind of root
bleak breach
just got 370vers mastery hands that will replace 340 hands
fathom marten
Uhhh
raven kernel
Go with ilvl
fathom marten
Bro that's a 30 ilvl difference
raven kernel
That's alot of str stam armor
bleak breach
but lose like 120 haste because of it having a sock as well
tight tree
RNG is the best. Got 375 pants from uldir. Then qued for warfront. Reward: 355 pants. Turned in quest – 370 pants.
tiny sphinx
when in doubt, ilvl it out
tight tree
ALL THE PANTS
tight tree
(last whine) overall feel clunky, dont feel that i ever should ask for externals in heroic (no other tank do). If i feel terrible in heroic, mythic will be 3x that. So for now, if they do not change something to be better, i will be stopping, (or rerolling lol). Promise, no more bitching from me.
just in bad mood after 1st raid weekend
crisp hearth
From my experience (6/8) heroic feel fine, except fetid that does hit like a truck and Zul p2 dot that also hurt
fathom marten
@tight tree Can't say I blame you brother. Was very optimistic about wars for a while but I'm starting to get a little discouraged.
crisp hearth
Everything else is manageable if you play correctly
45% uptime SB
DC trait + demo shout smooth intake while in avatar
SR is actually quite useful
You shouldn't have any problem as prot in heroic right now
compact mirage
That is so not true. I read today about a prot warrior getting replaced on heroic Uldir because he got oneshot through SB with IP while only offtanking a cleave boss.
hazy lake
Do you guys also think that ignore pain should be put off the gcd again?
tight tree
Lets just say, demo is not enough. If i have demo up and no SB bosses truck me. (well Zek'voz). A lot of it feel fine indeed. Every time sb is down and i dont have last stand, i feel in danger.
arctic pulsar
@hazy lake yes
fathom marten
I mean could it be possible you just have a pretty elite group you're running with @crisp hearth ? Not trying to sound cynical but I feel like maybe its np being a prot war if you got these top players of course but if you have some people that are just typically better then the average Joe I'd say we are on a knife's edge then
hazy lake
The spec feels so weird to play with ignore pain on the gcd, feels so clunky
arctic pulsar
Prot takes too long to get everything going
hazy lake
yes
arctic pulsar
By the time you have mitigation up youre chunked
Trying to smooth it out again
And dungeons which have heavy magic damage you are fucked
compact mirage
@arctic pulsar SW can help with that. But on the other hand you loose SW for doing that on the pull. (SW=Shockwave)
prisma night
Zork that person got replaced cuz of fetid?
tiny sphinx
charge needs to either generate more rage or SB cost needs to be lower
charging in with nothing up for the first few globals sucks
guess u can just blow last stand off the bat but that's silly
tiny sphinx
demo is a given, it's macro'd into all my attacks
so if one is on cd, i just mash it again
junior igloo
Demo is on GCD, so such a macro shouldn't even work
tiny sphinx
it does if you sequence it
prisma night
So how dont you have anything up for the first few globals if you use demo
fathom marten
Yeah we do take a bit of time to get our AM off. Though I dont feel like that is the problem considering Demo though. Its mid rotation for me
tiny sphinx
because demo produces no threat
hazy lake
I feel like blizzard went overboard with this whole gcd thing lol
Like come on some abilities arent supposed to be on it
prisma night
Demo is one gcd
fathom marten
Eh we just got the worst end of it
tiny sphinx
demo used to produce threat back in the day when it was spammable, equivalent to 1/4 of a sunder
crisp hearth
@fathom marten healers are good but I would not say elite group
fathom marten
There were people fighting in the forums about this lol. When to use demo. Do you ava>charge> TC>Demo>? Or is it ava>charge>Demo>TC. Lol
tiny sphinx
it all feels like a waste because it's all global locked so you're wasting precious seconds of one at any given time
crisp hearth
@fathom marten actually precast avatars heroic leap and demo shout while landing should give you the feeling of demo out of gcd
tiny sphinx
it's 2018, 100Gb net is commonplace get your shit servers together blizzard and just stop with the global nonsense
prisma night
I dont think thats the reason gcds exist
Its to stop macros doing everything and overloading the spell queue
I think
tiny sphinx
maybe, but everything was fine and dandy in legion
it feels like they changed it all for change's sake and didn't really think about the play pace being skewed
prisma night
100gb download isnt anywhere near commonplace btw
fathom marten
@crisp hearth idk brother I just feel like theres just to much reliance of the group to keep prot war a good pick then prot war being a standalone good pick. Relatively speaking of course to other tanks.
tight tree
For example, i had to save last stand for shadow circles on zekvoz, juuust because everyone is moving, i got chinked down sometimes because healers busy running lol
crisp hearth
@fathom marten do you have log? So I can compare and see if it's a group difference?
fathom marten
@crisp hearth just depends really, I have my charge and taunt macroed, helps that keep that initial target glued to you while you tab around. I never have to big of a problem opening up like I said. Its mid rotation things start to feel clunky
@crisp hearth lol I literally was mentioning earlier my logs weren't saved because for some damn reason advanced combat logs wasnt turned on.
crisp hearth
Oh :-) nvm
fathom marten
@crisp hearth I actually asked for some logs if you're willing go share
crisp hearth
Yep can give you our first heroic night
fathom marten
@crisp hearth oh awesome thank you. I mean dont get me wrong, I'm sure I can improve and my group can. We are not some crazy competitive group, I'd say we are all above the the casual player line but a lot of us are military and cant play consistently at times.
crisp hearth
karmic sphinx
fathom marten
Wut
fathom marten
Tbf prot wars are hard to play so most people are discouraged.
crisp hearth
Controlling some shit
prisma night
Gj lowering that discrepancy bliz
hot locust
I mean we're gonna have lower representation at the top end when Prot already is the lowest represented tank in general.
crisp hearth
From my perspective we will be kinda bad to push really high key
ember arrow
Ye
crisp hearth
Depending on affixes
But we definitely are good to push any kind of hard content even now
Like dk will be doing 15
ember arrow
Well yes
crisp hearth
We will be able to 12 13
ember arrow
But the alternatives offer more
crisp hearth
Exactly
ember arrow
Thats the thing
prisma night
Thats the problem
prisma night
If other tanks were having more trouble itd atleast be equal
fathom marten
Yes exactly. It's not like war are just the worst thing ever. It's just relatively we are better to be passed up for others.
ember arrow
Kiting is bigger than legion
In legion u pull big and kite
Now u pull small and kite
crisp hearth
War is good for kiting since after avatar bursting
Nothing will ever rip aggro
So you can just heroic leap out
ember arrow
Others must slow though
crisp hearth
And Los shit
prisma night
I really dont like how much we already have to kite even in low ish keys
crisp hearth
Even wb + bs is nothing compared
ember arrow
@prisma night get used to it
raven kernel
You can tc without being meleed
sick sentinel
Practice
crisp hearth
To avatars demo tclap spam
raven kernel
As you kite
prisma night
Tanks in general that is
sick sentinel
Exdee
ember arrow
Kiting in bfa is nuch more than legiin
All oneshot mechanics for dps got changed to tank dmg
From legion
prisma night
Tanks are now just aggro dolls that run
ember arrow
Fun innit
sick sentinel
At least warrior doesn't need ally slows to survive when you can intercept the ranged and run
You still want ally slows for efficient DPS tho
ember arrow
U dont think mobsoutrun u without slows
tiny sphinx
and most slows were reduced to 20% instead of 50
crisp hearth
With the tclap radius talent
tiny sphinx
so woo for that i guess
sick sentinel
You have a mediocre slow on clap and create a huge gap when you start running
crisp hearth
You can kite pretty good
crisp hearth
Is your ally actually play around kiting
prisma night
Need more kiting but now its even harder to do so. Exdee
ember arrow
Threat changes are barely niticeable
crisp hearth
We did freehold 9
sick sentinel
At least the DPS are more comfortable now
crisp hearth
I kited for ages
crisp hearth
Yeah
ember arrow
Freehold more like freeloot
crisp hearth
That's why you try to kite
prisma night
Kiting so often just makes it feel like we arent tanks. Like thematically tanks shouldnt be this flimsy
long pelican
The flip on freehold just throws to furthest ally right, what if you all stacked together. Minimizes airtime
ember arrow
Didnt u push in legion? @prisma night
sick sentinel
That's because d3 team didn't learn from d3
prisma night
Only 15s lev
sick sentinel
They should buff mob health and reduce mob damage like they did in d3
long pelican
I had two of the chucker dudes on the last bridge that were spread out while kiting and I got thrown around like a volleyball for 8 seconds
prisma night
Yeah but we are already kiting this much and people are doing like +5-10
prisma night
I dont remember doing this much kiting at all
hasty sapphire
yh because ur whole toolkit was not locked on GCD
ember arrow
Because u didnt go past a 15 lol
long pelican
Think legendaries effected that resilience?
crisp hearth
I felt that my 10 bfa was harder than the first legion 15 I did
prisma night
Week 1 no one did
sick sentinel
Legion had way better qol
Now life sucks
That's the blizzard model for you
Legion was desperation the expansion so they gave you all the quality of life updates they could come up with to keep you playing but now they can't make the game feel better so they took it all away until you get used to it so they can start adding those things back next expansion
fathom marten
@crisp hearth Man logs really do tell all. So much damage was mitigated with SB it's not even funny.
ember arrow
@sick sentinel then dont play if u dont like it
fathom marten
@sick sentinel Think you're being over dramatic and a paranoid.
crisp hearth
@fathom marten SB is the only really am we got rest is oh shit button
ember arrow
No
fathom marten
@crisp hearth Though IP mitigated more then I thought.
crisp hearth
@Levko LS can fill the gap between SB I know and since we got anger management we should weave wall when you have nothing else
But that mainly work when you know the fight pretty well
And I don't know about you guys
ember arrow
And u do
crisp hearth
But I keep overlapping SB and LS
fathom marten
As in CD's are over lapping with SB and LS and you have a period of neither or that you accidently hit SB while LS is up?
crisp hearth
I hit SB while LS is up
ember arrow
Then
crisp hearth
Like I need my WA to shine
ember arrow
Dont do it
crisp hearth
Habits
Habits are the issue
Last time I played war was in challenge mode pandaria
So having LS that block
Is kinda new
fathom marten
I was doing the same thing for a min but I'm good on not over lapping that shit now.
Maybe I do have something on you @crisp hearth 😉
quiet fox
urban reef
So are there any weights done for the addon AzeritePowerWeights anywhere - nothing in the pins that I can find.
sick sentinel
I do not pop sb when LS is up, but I pop LS when sb is up
Mostly because I am dying
hazy lake
I feel like something is missing when i play prot lol, my guild had to use a tank and i havent played it since legion
It feels so much worse honestly, even using avatar and demo shout take up 2 gcds like wtf 😄
ionic fern
All the tanks are arguably clunkier than they were in Legion atm
ember arrow
Well warr is prob clunkiest
hot locust
BrM hasn't gotten clunkier lul
smoky wave
are there any other tanks with a pure-DPS cooldown like avatar?
paper patio
What tank would be pretty decent and fun to play? Prot warrior feels too shit for me this exp compared to others
Looking to make new char, dont wanna play bear tho
hazy lake
I want to tank too now but i also dont want to regear and relevel lol, they just need to put ignore pain off GCD and it will honestly be fine
ionic fern
@smoky wave prot pallys got Wings/Seraphim..BDK has Dancing Rune weapon
tight tree
Brewmaster feels fast and fluid. Vengeance is fun as hell, but it is weak for raiding (very good for dungeons though).
smoky wave
@ionic fern both are defensive aswell right? prot gets +heals/+crit and DRW gives parry/bone stacks?
ionic fern
I mean..if you go that way then Avatar is defensive as well since you get more rage to spam stuff.
🤷
smoky wave
hadn't thought of it like that, guess that's as much as drw giving bone stacks.
ionic fern
But jeah, Wings also increase pally heals etc.
paper patio
What about Blood DKs are they viable still? I heared that their only issue is lack of mobility but that's about it
tight tree
Warrior burst with avatar is insane. I cant use it on pull because i rip aggro right off our MT. Happened on Zek right before second shadow cone, went onto melee 😉
ember arrow
@paper patio skysteps exist
tight tree
Clutches meh
ember arrow
Mobility is pty irrelevant otherwise in fights
ember arrow
Meiffert would like this album. Real cover btw
smoky wave
@paper patio if you want easy-mode and something that plays the complete opposite to warrior, go blood. It's good fun. I prefer prot playstyle but I'm sideeyeing the ease of my bdk atm.
ionic fern
Think this has been my highest burst on ST so far. 😂
paper patio
I was thinking of either brewmaster or blood. I know they are two different type of tanking, but brew looks fun with mobility. But then I prefer to be beffy and wear a big ass sword
tight tree
If i reroll, it will be to brewmaster most probably for raids.
paper patio
@ember arrow is it problematic for pug healers to heal blood dk? like they don't know the spikes etc?
I mean I guess it's same with prot warrior cause ignore pain and spikes of hp
ember arrow
If they dont know tank
Thats their problem
Hadbt had complaints thus far
Usually they said it was great
Dont need heals if u kite 90% of time 👌
ionic fern
😂
ember arrow
Bliz fault for making trash ridicous
They melee me as hard as hc bosses
Miss me with that shit
junior igloo
Trash is hard on fortified week? No way
ember arrow
Im not saying im surprised?
merry cave
It's weird people still use the term 'guild mt'
sick sentinel
zzz
tight tree
Well he is doing all tank strats, lead raid,. He is good at his stuff. If he is not MT, then who he is? 😉
I dont mind either way, names are just names.
prisma night
Tank strats are dependant on which tank spec can do them better per fight
fathom marten
Sounds like he is simply the Raid leader then
prisma night
Warrior can solo a ghuun orb, dk cant. So i do it. Doesnt make any tank mt. Just making the fight as easy as possible
fresh dragon
getting refused on a +7 coz im a warrior... so frustrating..
tight tree
That was expected. Scologic (tm)
Tbh, i dont have any fun running keys higher than 5 at all on warrior, so i dont do it.
fresh dragon
there is really nothing we can do to reset stack excdept running away like a rabbit?
tight tree
Run or cc long enough
fresh dragon
cc goes on diminuiscing
tight tree
You run anyway on high keys
fresh dragon
so fast that a stun last 0.1 sec
ye but the time lost is much high
than resetting stacks
continuing doing dps
i still remember when here ppl were claiming "oh.. well.. now all classes are quite similar..." ye sure....
tight tree
In terms of resetting necrotic, every class have to run regardless 😉
fresh dragon
antimagic shield
ember arrow
Get a ftostmage or smt similar
fresh dragon
dont remove stack?
tight tree
Necrotic supposed to test your snap aggro and kiting abilities
ember arrow
Dk kites anyway. We arent a facetank tupe tank
U also dont lose time by running back
U lose time by thinking u dont need to and dying :P
merry cave
All tanks kite necrotic
It's not a special warrior handicap
If pugs think otherwise you don't want to be in there group tbh
supple jay
i do some runs with resto druid i can say "find pala or priest" https://raider.io/characters/eu/defias-brotherhood/Tuhajeb
ember arrow
What?
@fresh dragon on dk in kings rest i skystepped to run away from slow immune adds
So id keep those nearby too
If u intend to push. Get used to kiting. It will be even more a thing than in legion
sick sentinel
can fireblood (iron dwarf racial) remove necrotic?
merry cave
That'd be crazy good if it did
sick sentinel
ticks in underrot apply bleed right?
sick sentinel
maybe u dont, but my pug dpsers always do 
ember arrow
Then let them die
long phoenix
so since ignore pain only absorbs 24k(my alt is only 340) what is the point even pressing it since it costs so much rage?
tight tree
Rage dump
or when you take magic damage
Zul, Vectis, underrot ticks 😉
It is shit but we dont have anything better
long phoenix
mmkay that's gonna be weird getting used to
old dawn
it helps quite a bit for absorbing juuuust enough damage to be useful
junior igloo
The point is to reduce 24k damage
old dawn
it's not going to save you from terrible thrash or anything but it really smooths our damage out
old dawn
All healers are good enough. Resto shaman are probably suffering the most but they're fine.
especially after their latest tuning.
sick sentinel
I'm trying to push today to get my +10 and I wanna know what healers should I ask for
ember arrow
Ones that make u kite easier
old dawn
I personally like disc priest and holy pally.
those are my guilds healers
mistweaver too.
raven kernel
restosham is pretty good
when played to the full extent of the class
ie interrupts, maximising the use of every totem, etc
old dawn
the cooldowns and totems are very strong.
signal plover
Make sure u bring some CC for a 10
old dawn
Is the plan right now just to complete the 10? Not worry about the timer?
ember arrow
Ye
junior igloo
The "hard" part is getting the key.
Once you have it, you can bring any classes and just take it slowly
raven kernel
yes
just cc everything and pull 1
if u want
take your sweet ass time
tank class is irrelevant for a non-timed 10
light fulcrum
I think you can do +10 in Time as any Tank. Did it on monk with 353 and with warri 343. was harder but Works
sick sentinel
the worst thing with war and M+ now is not that its harder, the thing is people dont take wars even for 7+
ur key or no go
light fulcrum
Pugs as always. In Legion i had Problems to get in a Group to do +15 eith 974 gs. You are no dk or dh? Okay let us alone
sick sentinel
monks werent taken?
old zephyr
On my m+ runs most issues came from dps not doing their cc, kick or proper AoE
light fulcrum
As monk i did it Already
west pelican
Do you think Blizz will give Warriors a m+ related tweak any time soon? I’m tempted to swap to an alt, but I just know that 2 weeks later they’ll probably adjust Warriors 😃 how likely do you guys think that is? Is it “safe” to swap mains?
ionic fern
I got 3 tanks atm ready to swap between depending on situation. 🤷
Now that m+ is open gearing isn't a problem either - just comes down to CoA rep farm.
😦
west pelican
Yeah, I’m more of a one char guy - time and stuff
ionic fern
Ah, aight. Well, i'd wait for the balance buff then
west pelican
Ok, I do enjoy the play style of warrior like crazy! Let’s hope they announce something rather fast. Kiting simulator is only fun for so long 😃
ionic fern
All the tanks are pretty much kiting simulator tho...
It's just how things are now. 🤷
main vault
manic perch
just wish warriors had slow for kiting similar to death and decay of DK's
will make it a bit easier
storm isle
we have TC it slows by 20%
manic perch
lol 20% dk slows 90% decay over 10sec thats OP as hell
manic perch
does that slow?
undone sun
50% slow for 6 seconds
manic perch
ah forgot about that one
undone sun
but it's probably still not worth picking
manic perch
yeah 1min cd
merry cave
I don't think you'd ever pick it, they'd have to have it do insane damage to be worth
valid gorge
god damn i'm getting destroyed by necrotic
west pelican
yeah most tank have their own way of handling the slowing, monk with the 50% slow talent, pallies 50% slow on concecration, DK 90% OP etc.
We kinda have to have external slows.
ionic fern
On the other hand you have Intervene + leap while DK's just have to run. 😂
west pelican
Yeah, but that isn't close to enough to clear stacks if they run after you at full speed.
specially since there is no fucking room anywhere in the dungeons 😛
ionic fern
Necrotic stacks? Haven't had problems thus far..healer stands far out..intervene to them - jump away.
west pelican
BUT also, did Kings rest +6 as Prot warrior 350 and the mob before the last boss just destroyed me
ionic fern
Je Kings rest is horrible.
ionic fern
The packs after the first boss are horrible also.
I'm kinda interested on how do people deal with the miniboss in Kings rest.
afaik you can't interrupt/stun it
So it just free casts.
valid gorge
we need some kind of survivability buff for higher keys i agree
west pelican
just annoying that it's that big of a difference when I really enjoy warrior
astral crystal
if you want to time a 10 as a warrior, just bring a monk or a DK, rop/grip are godsends for saving time in sanguine
sick sentinel
Caster Packs usually tear me apart
astral crystal
that's where you'll waste most of your time on anyway
and you absolutely have to kite
fathom marten
Death % - Tanks - Heroic Uldir (Top 25%)
astral crystal
every tank kites
fathom marten
:(
astral crystal
thrav you need to post the full image
where it shows that warriors have the lowest log representation :^)
undone sun
yes
sick sentinel
Does this change sth ? 😂
ionic fern
@west pelican you can kite the miniboss apparenbtly..they are like Pelters in Legion..if you run away they don't shoot anyone else, just run after you. Not sure about their MS.
fathom marten
I imagine the warriors that do play and logging are the more skilled ones
astral crystal
it changes the way you interpret the number of deaths and compare them to others
signal plover
Not surprised at all tbh it's really easy to be shit at prot warr
west pelican
@ionic fern ok, there is basically no where to line him except at the end of that long ass bridge
sick sentinel
All serious Tanks went brewmaster anyway
ionic fern
🤔
fathom marten
If we are lower in population and still the highest death % wise it doesnt make much of a difference. If you're arguement is that the average heroic prot war raider isn't logging...well I mean I like being optimistic but come on you gotta give
manic perch
can someone please explain to me why we as warrior have like the lowest hp pool ever? even pallies beat us in hp
manic perch
even with it its still lower lol
amber siren
yep
fathom marten
I mean granted, strange to see pally haveing more deaths the DH....guess being able to heal like they do can really offset some thing's
amber siren
wouldn't surprise me if the number of paladins to VDH would throw that number off
west pelican
I mean, is there being any discussions held about warrior on the official forums etc.? (I'm never there, so wouldn't know). As far as I've seen all the "prominent" warrior tanks all say that "we are fine" basically. Are we really tho?
manic perch
what do you guys use for your HUd's ?
amber siren
We
fathom marten
I mean idk how its statically determined. Is this a total percentage or per 1000 players.
smoky wave
Where's that plot from?
amber siren
I'd imagine it's from WCL
fathom marten
Was in a thread post. Looking for it now.
valid gorge
one of the biggest issues i'm having is you basicly have to blow a cooldown at every pull because your defenses take too many global cooldowns to set up while still doing decent threat
sick sentinel
Active mitigation tank.
amber siren
That's just what we do
west pelican
I don't really buy the easy to make mistakes thing. Most top warriors should play "good enough" to be equally competitive as other tanks. It's like 90% tanking skills and 10% mechanical warrior skills anyways.
valid gorge
i'm not complaining about having to press buttons wtf?
vocal nimbus
Top warriors ARE equally competitive as other players
valid gorge
i'm complaining that there is too many buttons to press and too little time to press them
in order to not die
amber siren
Maintaining IF or even stagger is a pretty no brainer and part of the reason why they're good for raid tanking, it's so easy that you can do mechanics than worry about class design
Stacking 2 IF is easier than planning SB and bolster
west pelican
@vocal nimbus Are they really tho?
undone sun
yes
west pelican
I haven't checked the ladder for m+ lately
vocal nimbus
You dont see as many top warriors as you want because top players would rather bring something not as punishing as warrior for progress
west pelican
but I'll be very surprised to find a lot of warriors on the first page
@vocal nimbus but... now you're just contradicting yourself
vocal nimbus
But a top player can do the same content on a warrior or on whatever
west pelican
that's exactly what we're talking about
valid gorge
highest ranked warrior tank for mythic+ is #39
amber siren
@west pelican Saying it's easier to play one tank doesn't mean the other isn't viable or contradictory
vocal nimbus
Warrior is harder to play but it can do everything others do, end of the story
west pelican
@amber siren do you really think they pick another class because it "easier to play" it??? I think they pick it because it's stronger and makes the content easier.
BIG difference
valid gorge
top mythic+ players don't not play warrior because the other classes are easier to play rofl
they play other tanks because they are better
it's that simple
west pelican
@vocal nimbus ok man, end of story.
amber siren
@west pelican It's literally one of the core reasons, a tank who can spend less focus on surviving can spend more time doing boss mechanics. Some classes are stronger in some areas, others are weaker.
fathom marten
We are just arguing semantics. The thing is sure a warrior is able complete any content and are viable..
.but how difficult is it as a war compared to the others. Seemingly far more difficult.
valid gorge
man you are grossly underestimating good players
amber siren
valid gorge
if a tank can "spend less focus on surviving "(i.e. global cooldowns) and more on boss mechanics/dps
vocal nimbus
Any tank can get to X, its just simpler to get to X as a BDK/VDH/whatever than warrior. Thats it
astral crystal
it's not necessarily a matter of easier to play as much as it is relieving the burden tanks have. in m+ it's displacement and grouping options, kite potential; in raids it's cheese potential, how many mechanics you can forego by throwing a CD that isn't external on it
valid gorge
that's just a better tank class
plain and simple
doesn't have anything to do with "easier to play"
west pelican
@vocal nimbus with that argument I could argue that a mage can tank m+ as well
it's just a bit harder
valid gorge
you think good players are unable to play warrior tanks perfectly and do mechanics perfectly at the same time?
sick sentinel
you guys got some tips for me tanking ghuun hc? need to do it for the first time today and i have no clue
final mist
It's easier / more reliable to keep ISB up an hit Purify every so often than to hit SB in the same spots every pull for 400 pulls until a boss is dead.
That's why BRM is "better".
amber siren
Is every person who comes in the prot channel incapable of reading? It's not a matter of playing well, it's being consistent
final mist
You are able to live more consistently even if you fuck up.
amber siren
Warrior play isn't consistent
final mist
If you fuck up on a Warrior, you are dead. There is no way out of the hole.
That's why people "consider Warrior bad".
valid gorge
you honestly believe every top player is playing DK/Pala because prot warrior is just as good but "harder to focus on mechanics with?"
final mist
If you can play it well, kudos - there are people here that exhibit that ability now and in the past (Sense, Lala, myself, etc).
valid gorge
get out man
amber siren
?????????????????????
west pelican
@final mist Agree, but that is ultimately a design thing, not a skill thing.
final mist
No, it's a skill thing.
vocal nimbus
It certainly takes skill to keep that consistency
amber siren
No, but if a warrior fucks up they're more likely to die than a monk
That's literally it
vocal nimbus
Monks are more forgiving if you make a mistake
amber siren
Boy I don't even know at this point if you have eyes
vocal nimbus
If you dont make mistakes every tank is similar
final mist
A design thing helps perpetuate it, but skill is ultimately what keeps Warriors "on par". ANd we have things other tanks do not, like the absolutely insane DPS.
valid gorge
I refuse to believe top players play non-warrior because they are more forgiving
west pelican
@vocal nimbus that is just bs
valid gorge
that's not how top players work
west pelican
so considering NO MISTAKES made, all tanks are equal?
final mist
Then you have no idea what top players are looking for.
I can tell you so, because that's exactly the reason.
amber siren
Top players look for consistency, a trait bear and BrM have
vocal nimbus
Even a veteran and skilled tank player is telling you both these things
valid gorge
there's a difference between not being top, and being completely and utterly underrepresented in the top brackets
vocal nimbus
Sal is telling the same thing as rybie or me but with other words 🤷
final mist
Besides, if you're asking these questions, you should probably just go jump ship and go BRM. Clearly you're looking for an excuse to "play the OP tank class".
fathom marten
Well more likely to die is not a good tank quality to have
west pelican
You guys 😃 Apparently it's all down to skills and not making mistakes according to some, when it's CLEAR that some classes are a lot more consistent by design.
merry cave
The reason warriors are unrepresented isn't due to them being far behind
fathom marten
So by definition that tank isn't and good as the others
final mist
BRM is more consistent and reliable, whereas Warriors require more skill / finesse to achieve the same goal.
You can fall asleep on a BRM and be fine.
valid gorge
if they could achieve the same goal you would see them up there
final mist
If you fuck up, you are dead, as I said before.
valid gorge
unless the skillcap is so incredibly high
and the other tanks skillcap incredibly low
merry cave
It's just like the stupid image of uldir tank deaths going around
amber siren
😵
valid gorge
which would still be terrible design
fierce juniper
Assuming no mistakes, yes, all tanks are pretty similar. And if you are actually making no mistakes whatsoever, you will essentially never die, but it's pretty much impossible to never not make a mistake.
So, if you consider that, and consider that BrM is a much more forgiving spec, then yes, BrM is the better spec. That is, on average, it is more likely that you will have more success as BrM.
But people still play other tank specs because you can make up for that lack of forgiveness with skill
final mist
IDK Man, Exorsus' main tank ran a Warrior pretty much every raid in Legion, and should be doing so now.
vocal nimbus
The top players arent machines that never fuck up
Thats why there arent that many warrios
final mist
Sense wasn't the only highly ranked Warrior in US or Europe either.
fathom marten
I'm seeing both sides. The prot war vets dont want to admit the pitfalls of there class design and on the other end, they disregard the skill required to be a good prot war tank is higher then the others.
final mist
¯_(ツ)_/¯
amber siren
@fathom marten Wat
final mist
Thrav, I'd like to think I've been pretty open with Warrior's downsides this entire time.
I'll be the first to tell you Warrior requires more skill.
amber siren
Literally no one has said prot warriors are perfect
valid gorge
But you think the status quo is fine?
vocal nimbus
Wisest thing is to look away, had 3-4 "warriors are bad" debates these days and its always hopeless
valid gorge
no changes should be made
final mist
That's why the "did the tank live?" logs from heroic and normal look so shite - 95% of Prots are braindead idiots.
valid gorge
2 warriors in top 100 is fine?
vocal nimbus
top 100 is like 0.001% of the player base
hot locust
There have been more than 2 in top 100 this whole time, what do you mean?
amber siren
top 100 are people actively competing
Again
Easiest is best
Why compete with harder
merry cave
I don't get it, if you truly think wars are that much worse etc etc why stay here bitching instead of using the time to roll something new 🤷
vocal nimbus
+5 life
valid gorge
Ok, sure i'll give you that the metric isn't great
we'll talk again in 3 weeks and it will be exactly the same talk
if nothing changes
merry cave
I was doing 23-25 keys near end legion as war. Now I'm just spamming 5/6s for easy gear. The rankings mean nothing atm
fathom marten
@final mist Not trying to pick a side here brother. I just feel like there is no conceding from either side. Most people on the discord are pretty positive about prot war current state. When we get others saying it's not very good they get shot real quick. What do you think prot wars need?
vagrant cape
What a great "discussion" to wake up to. Gets popcorn
vocal nimbus
I would instantly get back to prot warr if they somehow changed the playstyle
Im no design expert but it feels weird
Im currently playing BrM in raids
Ip off the gcd is popular these days 🤷
hot locust
undo the block nerf is all I want 😢
vagrant cape
Warriors would be super OP busted as fuck if IP were off gcd
valid gorge
the whole demeanor here make me think of the pic with the dog having coffee in the café that's on fire
hot locust
bring back legion block cd
smoky wave
I'd be happy with a ranged interrupt, and maybe some fun banners back or something. Avatar not being purely offensive would be nice. mebbie 10% DR? nothing OTT. IP ought to stay on GCD but needs to feel better to press.
fierce juniper
I mean, yeah Banorac, Prot is going to be underrepresented in Mythic+ due to their design. We don't have great "mob control" (i.e. grips), so people will always prefer DKs/DHs, or Monks for their survivability. I don't think anyone is really denying that.
amber siren
not saying prot is bad doesn't mean we don't think it has improvement, it's not black and white
hot locust
It's pretty useless....
valid gorge
on that front, guardians have it worse
hot locust
We have shockwave stun and a second interrupt with int shout
fathom marten
@amber siren exactly my point and from what it looks like to me, is that both sides seem to represent there argument that way.
hot locust
sure but guardians are worse off all around in M+ right now
vagrant cape
We can also protect fixated teammates with intercept. People forget that one a lot. It helps a boatload in higher underrots
hot locust
I mean
you want me to go do some useless 10+ keys this week?
and tie that up?
Wouldn't be very hard.
Just a waste of my time.
final mist
Prot's utility (or lack thereof) is 100% the reason for the underrepresentation.
valid gorge
sure, you're right, but I mean, it's a waste of time for those DK/pala/BRM's as well no?
why would the % change?
final mist
Our strongest draws for being a M+ pick would be the damage, or the defense, since we can survive extremely well. when things go right.
valid gorge
heh
final mist
@west pelican If you're going to try and troll because we disagreed with you, you'll find your time here will be quite short.
vagrant cape
That's hilarious that in Legion it would have been Monks on the right side of that image.
hot locust
wut
final mist
Forgive me / us for being short with this, we get this question 700,000 times a day and most of us are just extremely done with it.
west pelican
Come on man, it's a joke. Did you wake up without any sense of humor?
vocal nimbus
Just think about it like choosing a game's difficulty
vagrant cape
The start of Legion people were complaining like mad about how complicated brewmaster were
And how bad they were as a result
final mist
BRM wasn't complicated, it was just bad.
valid gorge
I might be overrepresenting the m+ ranking numbers a bit on the issue and it's still early, but in my eyes being in complete denial and the sickening "everything is fine" when everything points to the fact that it isn't, isn't really helping anyone either
final mist
ANd then they got buffed multiple times and were OP.
fathom marten
I mean it was just admitted that a prot war is more likely to die compared to the other classes. That's just not the quality you want as a tank. So it seems logical to concede that we are on the worst end of things more then not. @final mist Makes a good point. If we had more utilities, it would off set that in a more favorable way.
vagrant cape
I recall many a post saying that brm was like operating a radio control tower and they were just average even if played perfectly.
amber siren
disagreeing with your hyperbole doesn't mean we disagree with the class direction
It's not some weird ass hive mind
final mist
In terms of raid, it's the "How badly can I fuck up and still not die?" thing. In M+, it's a different story in that most people see the utility other tanks bring as being better than the damage and being a pure stone wall that we bring.
That's it.
If you can play well, you'll be fine.
fierce juniper
Banorac, people have said multiple times that everything isn't "fine", and by design we're worse off in M+ compared to other specs. They're not gonna give mass grip to Warrior though.
final mist
^
west pelican
With all due respect - I'm just wondering - are any discussions being held on "higher level" than this? If blizzard devs called you guys up @fierce juniper @final mist and asked you about the state of warriors. Would you also say it's perfectly fine - it's just about player skill?
dusk locust
i miss the no-cooldown taunt during berserker rage
frosty wedge
I'd be all for a mass taunt banner that speeds up mobs when it taunts them like a brm
manic perch
mocking banner ❤
frosty wedge
❤
also BrM was never HARD to play
brm was about the same difficulty as warr
but they were undertunes
undertuned*
fierce juniper
@west pelican I mean, no we wouldn't say it's perfectly fine. I'd like to see them round out utility balance for all tanks in Mythic+. I think we're in a great spot for raids.
valid gorge
Sure Marok, i'm sure some people are
vocal nimbus
I always thought that having engineers craft an usable that worked like a budget mass grip (a mine with hooks that pull 3-5 mobs max) would balance things. I mean, BDKs dont have mobility but can use skystep potions 🤷
final mist
It's not "perfectly fine", there's a ton of changes I'd like to see for M+. But they'd come with some changes that I also don't want to see, i.e. I'm perfectly okay with having a small amount of utility in exchange for what we do have.
For raids though, nah we're good.
People just need to, for lack of a better term, git gud.
valid gorge
I actually agree with that
final mist
The top end raiders always favor consistency, that will never change.
valid gorge
not in an m+ context though
vagrant cape
I think prot warriors are just about the worst overall, but the gap between the best and worst tanks is so freaking miniscule right now. This is literally the first week of m+ where people are just jumping into bfa off of their YouTube Tier Lists©, so of course representation is an issue at the moment.
I think once people get their heads out of their asses, the numbers will even out. My ilvl is 350 and I've been rejected from plenty of higher pug groups.
valid gorge
gitting gud isn't going to get you invited to m+ groups
fierce juniper
Well, that's an issue with community perception.
frosty wedge
i'm 349 and was getting rejected from 3s and 4s
vagrant cape
True. I need to get back in that m+ discord
fierce juniper
I mean, you're always gonna have to deal with that when you're playing a spec that the community considers "bad".
frosty wedge
There's definitely a stigma attache to prot right now
final mist
Pugging M+ itself is an issue, which is why I never do. It's more enjoyable for me to just play with friends, which I understand a lot of people can't do.
And remember, BRM had a community perception issue at the beginning on Legion. Look at them even just halfway through the expansion - they were very, very good.
Even at NH, they were extremely good, but still had that community perception issue, which is why they were still getting buffed even into ToS.
Like Marok said, it's always going to be a thing, it just so happens that we're on the bad side of it this time.
valid gorge
as long as a medium skilled player will drop like a brick with prot, and tank perfectly fine with a DK, and a god tier player will perform the same or marginally better with a DK, everyone will want the DK and noone will want the warrior :)
amber siren
just become so depressed about warriors until we're god tier 🙂
fierce juniper
Anyway, I came here in the first place to pin something.
The Azerite Traits/Gear page, Gear/BiS page, and the Boss by Boss Tips page has been updated for Uldir.
https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/protection-warrior-pve-tank-guide#changelog
amber siren
@fierce juniper Thank u
restive mauve
Warr should be good in skittish week, no? We should hold aggro better than other tanks
fierce juniper
Yeah
vagrant cape
Thanks Marok!
fathom marten
@fierce juniper So do you think blizzard will do anything that would buff warriors ? Thank you for you commitment to help us all out btw.
restive mauve
We can kite
fierce juniper
Probably not. Actually, I'm surprised they didn't nerf our damage. Although that may still come.
restive mauve
Very easily tho
final mist
All I know is
restive mauve
Uhhh
fathom marten
Fair enough. Thanks for answering.
final mist
Skittish is gonna be real fun next week
west pelican
@fierce juniper thanks, both for answer and for sticky 😃
fierce juniper
np
arctic pulsar
And you lose aggro because the arms warrior just blew his load while your kiting your stacks off
restive mauve
You outdps the arms warr
vocal nimbus
Does reorigination stack count start when you get the first Uldir trait? @fierce juniper
undone sun
it should be retroactive
restive mauve
Yeah it is funny how we have so much dmg
fierce juniper
@vocal nimbus It's actually not 100% clear how that part works. As Thyme said it should be retroactive, but we'll have to wait until next week to make sure.
final mist
No, it's worked that way in my raids.
vocal nimbus
Getting the piece 3-4 weeks in and having to start from there 😰
arctic pulsar
And that's it
west pelican
@final mist Q: You said you want protection to be left unchanged for raids, and at the same time said raid groups will favor consistence (which we are really lacking). Wouldn't some changes to "add consistency" be better for both raids and m+ then?
final mist
We had someone in my guild who got an Azerite piece halfway through normal (we'd cleared heroic already) and he had the trait active.
vocal nimbus
That would be painful
arctic pulsar
All prot has is damage
restive mauve
?
fierce juniper
No Sal, I mean if someone doesn't get an Uldir piece this week, and they get it next week, will the previous weeks kills count for Reorigination Array. We don't know that yet
restive mauve
Good utility, good kiting, good mitigation, good dmg
final mist
I suppose, though I don't see why it wouldn't.
fierce juniper
Yeah
final mist
Fair enough though.
restive mauve
If we had self healing we would be op
chilly brook
@west pelican consistency has nothing to do with warrior design it has to do with who’s behind the warrior
final mist
We don't have self-healing because we reduce so much damage up front.
hasty tusk
ermm this might be a silly question but does anyone know if for the deafening crash stack?
undone sun
the damage does
final mist
The damage to TC does, but not the duration increase.
restive mauve
For memes
hasty tusk
ah
west pelican
@chilly brook I don't agree with that at all
undone sun
What Stacks for Azerite Traits?
Stat increases, Damage additions, Healing additions
What doesn't stack?
Duration multipliers/additions, proc chance, number of targets, etc
chilly brook
I’ve said it a million times but I’ll say it again, the only logical thing prot could actually get without it pushing it into OP territory is a longer lasting IP
@west pelican you don’t need to agree, I’ve had multiple pulls from last night with very consistent damage intake
Much lower damage intake than our DK
By far
uneven mason
Making IP a bit bigger off the bat wouldn't hurt.
restive mauve
I'd like it if they increased the cap on ignore pain
chilly brook
That’s really all I would say is needed
west pelican
@chilly brook Longer lasting IP wouldn't help a bit imo. It's gone after a second anyways 😛
restive mauve
And maybe make it scale again 20 to 60
chilly brook
@west pelican exactly.....the........point
west pelican
@chilly brook you lost me now
uneven mason
I mean, increasing the AP coefficient from 3.5 to 5 wouldn't be amiss....
vocal nimbus
Griff, they werent talking about that kind of consistency
west pelican
@chilly brook ahh, ok, higher absorb amount... Not longer lasting. Check, got it. Agree
restive mauve
Weird way to say it
chilly brook
Regardless the original point is that prot isn’t hurting at all as long as you actually play correctly
restive mauve
Not hurting at all is a bit of a stretch
uneven mason
We feel fantastic if you're playing at your A game
chilly brook
@vocal nimbus I mean if you’re not talking about consistency in damage taken what are you talking abut for a tank
uneven mason
If you botch something though, you're going to hurt
vocal nimbus
Consistency in the player's mistakes
restive mauve
But you can do the most difficult content, which is what matters
chilly brook
@restive mauve a stretch nah
final mist
@west pelican I think we're fine because I'm very heavily slanted towards people getting better and playing well as a result. Most people here aren't top ranked players, so that's generally why I don't care. I'm about US50 and playing Warrior at this level is 100% fine - there are Warriors higher ranked than me, even. And I don't blame the higher ranked players for preferring consistency over skill-based survival, because I raided at that level for some time and understand the desire for it. When you're raiding for 12+ hours at a time, playing something like a Monk is very attractive.
Most people who raid in heroic or even the lower ranked mythic guilds will be fine so long as they play well.
That's why I think we're fine in the spot we are.
uneven mason
^^
Basically BrM is the go to tank right now, because you can have a slip in consistency and not get crushed like a beercan at a frat party
uneven mason
I took about 24% less damage on avg than my co tnak
restive mauve
Thats fine
final mist
10 hours in, you're tired, your ass hurts from sitting in a chair, you've had the same idiots wiping to the same mechanics for the past 4 hours, and at some point you don't really want to do anything other than kill the boss. Your mind wnaders for a second as you take a swig of your Monster and you... promptly get one-shot.
Or you're a Monk and laugh quietly as you Purify your mistake away.
EZ clap.
uneven mason
^
fervent monolith
Run in. Irrigate aggro aggro mitigate aggro mirage aggro jump out 😃
Mitigate ofc
uneven mason
#1 death I had on G'huun - I overestimated my rage resource and hit IP again and had 28 rage and a charge of SB off CD.
restive mauve
Warr feels right for me tho. Feels like our dmg will get noticed and is actually very relevant in m+
final mist
This situation doesn't apply to people like myself who only raid 3 hours a night for 3 nights. I can maintain that sort of "concentration" for most pulls. Ex. We had ~420 pulls on Argus before our kill, and I fucked up on maybe 3 or 4 of them that I can recall, which is technically unacceptable by my standards, but I'm a perfectionist.
So for most people, no, it doesn't matter.
west pelican
@final mist Ok, thanks man. In my mind though, the reward isn't really there. If the difference in skill and "be on your toes 12 hours straight" the difference in result should be bigger if you manage to pull that off = warrior should be WAY better if no mistakes were made, not just "almost as good". If that makes sense. But I guess we all have opinions and shit 😛 thanks anyways man
final mist
Which is my point, but it's early in the morning and I'm still only on my first cup of coffee.
uneven mason
@west pelican the reward is there, we literally takes less damage than any other tank when played properly.
It just doesn't feel "rewarding" because our reward is living
15 - 25% less damage depending on what your co tank is
west pelican
@uneven mason is that the case?
real rover
so - since Reinforced Platin is kind of a garbage trait...how does it compare to Laser Matrix? Is the heal worth something?
digital arrow
ahhh also on my first cup o coffee
uneven mason
in the vast majority of situations yes
west pelican
if you include other tanks self healing etc.?
restive mauve
If we take less dmg than any other tank if played correctly you'd see more warr tanks in the higher ranks
Which isn't the case sooo
uneven mason
with self healing we would be more or less flat with the other tanks (except VDH, we still take less damage and need less EHRPS than VDH)
digital arrow
i wonder why high dps isn't talked about more when people discuss war? it seems something that has to be reminded. is high dps not that important in this game? I still consider myself new. But i played FFXIV before WoW and dps and cleartime are king in that game
uneven mason
Aristides that isn't how progression pushes work
chilly brook
@restive mauve that’s demonstrably false
uneven mason
You take the tank that is less likely to die - warriors are NOT that
chilly brook
Monk takes the most damage and is one of the most popular progression tanks
uneven mason
because of human error
digital arrow
the war class in WoW would be highly attractive in FFXIV and its high dps would be a very popular point
undone sun
damage output is directly tied to threat generation and as a tank threat is important
west pelican
@frosty glen is the first screenshot including the DKs self healing?
undone sun
thus meaning damage output is improtant
west pelican
AND the saving of mana of healers?
chilly brook
Mana of healers is far less important tbh
final mist
DKs don't really save mana though, they need to be healed just as much.
All tanks need to be hard focused.
chilly brook
DK’s self healing hardly matters in raid
uneven mason
@west pelican No, it doesn't if you include the DKs self healing, that parse is literally flat (as it should be)
final mist
The self-healing puts them on a similar level of mitigation as the other tanks (this goes for Bears, DH and Paladins as well).
undone sun
where warriors prevent the initial damage, DKs heal that same about back up
chilly brook
Mind you even when he was taking thrash I was STILL taking FAR LESS damage than he did
final mist
Our thing is we mitigate more upfront, but have no self0healing to help us back up, which is why we are always talked about as "requiring" babysitting.
uneven mason
DKs heal for ~ 25 - 30% of the damage they've taken, the warrior took 30% less damage tha nthe DK in that fight thus DKs and warriors are demonstrability balanced against eachother.
final mist
Most people don't understand that every tank needs babysitting now, not just Warriors.
west pelican
@undone sun then it's incorrect to show screens like that, without including the DK version of mitigation
undone sun
idd
chilly brook
Then we swapped and I took thrash fulltime and never dropped below 50%
uneven mason
🤦
undone sun
dtps differs from tank spec to tank spec respectively because of how toolkits work
uneven mason
^^
undone sun
one major reason why you cannot compare KRSI to other tanks, other than the fact it's meaningless ¯_(ツ)_/¯
uneven mason
But that was a fantastic example as Vect is a fight wher ethe tanks have pretty much identical damage intake because of how the swap works.
chilly brook
Here you go, @west pelican feel free to subtract that from the 25k dtps still drastically larger
junior igloo
@west pelican
More total healing required doesn't always mean more mana/GCDs needed.
A warrior getting hit for 50 % in one autoattack needs to be healed now, otherwise he might die to the next 50 % autoattack 1.5 seconds later.
So the healer might decide to cancel their current cast and throw an expensive instant on you etc.
On the other hand, even though monks might take more damage overall, they take it in slow stagger ticks and never get bursted, so there is no rush, you can let hots and beacons do their job.
Even though it's more healing total, it can cost less mana or spells total.
chilly brook
Even if you factor that healing in I STILL blew his damage taken out of the water
@uneven mason yep
restive mauve
So what you're saying is, on numbers we look good but fall short in practise
real rover
having more than one Ablative shielding Trait is no benefit at all, right?
uneven mason
So neither self healing or tank mitigation exist in a vacuum, you have to consider entire toolkits and not just harp on the 1 thing you have an issue with - if we take issue with anything its the fact that possibly our passive mitigation should be a bit stronger while our active mitigation tools could be brought down a notch, it would make the spec far less punishing to play on average.
chilly brook
@restive mauve that’s not what anyone is saying?
uneven mason
No Aristides what we're saying is that to be a good prot warrior takes forethought and proper planning and very good execution.
digital arrow
i think it's better that public perception is war is terrible so blizz doesn't feel like nerfing it later 😈
uneven mason
if you can't think 15~ seconds ahead, you'll probably die
fresh dragon
IP last one hit. It covers 5% of my hp 😅
uneven mason
it covers 13.5% of your HP on avg
restive mauve
So if we take the least dmg, that doesn't look good in numbers?
undone sun
wat
uneven mason
pretty much consistently across all item levels rightn ow
chilly brook
If you can’t realize that “hey I’m not going to have AM up for the next hit I should pop LS or SW” then you’re going to have a bad time
uneven mason
We look fantastic in numbers
chilly brook
@restive mauve people won’t care what your numbers look like if you die because you don’t use mitigation
uneven mason
^^
restive mauve
So we look good in numbers but fall short in practise, ok got it.
chilly brook
On a side note my lowest hit taken from fetid’s thrash was 26k, try getting another tank to replicate that
@restive mauve no......
fresh dragon
Yes also coz having all in GC is pretty bad aristides
chilly brook
GC?
fresh dragon
Global cooldowb
wide juniper
GCD
umbral patio
Global cd
fresh dragon
Missed a D :)
chilly brook
I mean the GCD doesn’t stop you from playing well
fresh dragon
But u cannot maximize the rage generation
wide juniper
Sure you can.
chilly brook
The BLUF of prot warrior is play well you’re a god amongst men, don’t play well you’re literally the dirt of the earth
@fresh dragon wat
uneven mason
So @restive mauve To give you an impression on what playing prot is like right now https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/478577012584349696/487710215744126976/unknown.png
umbral patio
It does if you press the wrong button and spend you rage else where instead of on a damage migration move
chilly brook
@umbral patio you shouldn’t really use rage offensively in a raid at current gear level