Not enough
#protection
chilly brook
inland mesa
Fetid and zek'voz were so sloppy, we let a mc dude get fear off and got like 10 adds and burned it as the last person died D:
uneven mason
15% before ITF
valid gorge
since we can't really sim, how much better is haste than everything else?
sick sentinel
haste is really good i just know that
valid gorge
I am well aware, wondering mostly for trinkets & rings
chilly brook
There’s my stats
sick sentinel
going <10% in haste i don't think armor is better
inland mesa
Zek'voz the fear is just from the mc guy cast right? You just nuke it down and interrupt right there's no gimmic?
valid gorge
like I have a 340 haste/crit ring and a 355 vers/mastery ring
could the haste be better?
sick sentinel
ooooh quick navigation i should not forgot this
chilly brook
I mean your majority haste is going to come from your rings @sick sentinel
Not your armor
sick sentinel
you double dm deck ?
chilly brook
If you have a incessantly ticking clock at a decently high ilvl it could be better than Rezan’s @frosty wedge
sick sentinel
i should really do azerite wq
chilly brook
My 350 Rezan’s only beat out my 340 clock by 4 DPS in Arms so I would assume the uptime on the clock is much better
frosty wedge
Nice - I have a 340 Jes' Howler atm
uneven mason
I have a 355 flask (thus more haste) because trinkets really fucking hate me
chilly brook
I honestly wish that I had more choice over my secondary stats
inland mesa
I have a 345 jes and 345 zandalri are haste proc wq
chilly brook
A 355 flask sounds godly tbh
uneven mason
I mean,its a nice chunk of on use armor
and IP boost
comes in handy
wanted a howler
chilly brook
Now I understand what people were saying about Ip
uneven mason
because vers for yummy magic mit
chilly brook
It feels almost useless in Uldir
uneven mason
0_o
chilly brook
Gone so quickly
uneven mason
IP felt good
clear nimbus
No luck with trinket and ring...
uneven mason
it was doing a solid chunk of smoothing
inland mesa
It's more of an extra rage or big hit smoothing than before where it was spam spam spam
inland mesa
Taloc add soaking with it was so easy
royal lodge
Any thoughts that BOE shield and boots are still worth it with the added block value? RNG is not my friend and I have ran Alta 16 times trying to get shield.
uneven mason
Its up to you at this point
sick sentinel
warfront is up when we get 100% ?
inland mesa
I'm debating on them for mythic week if M+ or g'huun don't gift me with one, I got nothing first 5 bosses in heroic :(
inland mesa
With stupid personal loot we went heroic first so we could trade normal gear if it dropped in same slot
uneven mason
14.3% a day I think is how fast it progresses...
inland mesa
Someone got a 375 ring they aren't going to even use. :-/
chilly brook
Hmmm
Speaking of which
I wonder how many ilvls one should sandbag for rings as prot
inland mesa
Druid got 385 boots off zek'voz
chilly brook
I didn’t get jack last night
7/8 bosses
One ring with meh stats
I already hate the new system even more than I thought it was possible to hate
inland mesa
Yeah I just got enough sanguine cells to upgrade one or both blacksmith crafting, but I will farm m+ this weekend and try to reroll stats first unless upgrading rerolls them again, anyone know?
inland mesa
Yeah it just said random on craft, but I'm assuming that's in regard to the random on the first piece
fathom field
Not too happy with the new systrm either
Did raid and got to mythic 5 yesterday with nothing to show. Five mythics and a raid!.
Got a bunch of hydrocores.
chilly brook
What did I expect though?
Hit 348 before raid even released of course I’m not gonna get shit
fathom field
LFR loot is only 340. Doubt Prot can tank raid in heroic. Feeling kinda stuck.
vocal nimbus
I'd say that the epic you forge has random stats
But salvaging it would give the cells back
Just like with the hydrocores
uneven mason
@fathom field Whats your ilvl??
vagrant cape
For blacksmithing, at least, don't you just make an entirely new piece? So shouldn't it have new random stats?
fathom field
345
uneven mason
you're fine for HC
fathom field
been that for a week
uneven mason
most fights are undertuned
just gotta know when to cover your ass and start screaming for an external
fathom field
Not too excited to run heroic since I got nothing yesterday. Just isn't fun
Mythic + pugs were fun. Had a warlock facepull 3x in fortified sots
funny as shit
left anvil
Any tips for surviving fetid's thrashing bite ability.. i'm getting wrecked by it every cast
dark junco
Fethid hits like a uber truck i’ve heard
dusk locust
he does
dark junco
Been told 3 tanks
fathom field
I died a lot lol
dark junco
And cleave add
fathom field
Monk.and druid were much better than me
dark junco
Heroic?
left anvil
i go down to about 15% hp every time.. and he does it too quickly i cant seem to get IP and SB up at the same time due to lack of rage
fathom field
Normal. 345 ilvl
Get demo shout and IP up at same time
Not looking forward to raid progression as prot. Probably should just stick to keys.
Our dps is great for clearing the trash on motherlode mythic +
frosty wedge
don't you get the hydrocore back when you scrap?
uneven mason
So those thrashes go off infrequent enough that you can have block up ~100% of the time for them (if you see a gap coming up, call for an external)
frosty wedge
I don't think you need to re-run 15 more mythics to reroll the crafted items
frosty wedge
yeah
fathom field
Anyone tank 8/8 on heroic as prot?
frosty wedge
the guy up there just said he was going to run a ton of mythics to re-roll the stats
uneven mason
nope we called it at Zul
fathom field
Anyone get to 10?
chilly brook
@uneven mason you think Uldir is undertuned 🤔
dark junco
Do we get sanguicell back??
chilly brook
@fathom field according to logs no one has tanked 8/8 yet
uneven mason
are overtuned still IMO
fathom field
damn
uneven mason
DoTs wre just facemelting bad
fathom field
yea
frosty wedge
Yeah, you get the sanguicell/hydrocore back I believe
chilly brook
No logs in heroic for g’huun
fathom field
Too hard for 355 gear
dusk locust
we might have been doing it wrong though
dark junco
Yeah I regret not leveling my druid now tbh
fathom field
^
chilly brook
I mean I don’t think it matters much what you play at the moment
Some of the later bosses are still going to shred you
dark junco
Druid or monk has it easy on fethid
fathom field
^^^
chilly brook
I mean apparently so do we
Whoever is main tanking it has it the easiest
Anyone in OT is gonna get smacked
dark junco
I’m at 42 haste and its still nowhere near enough
dark junco
Total
chilly brook
I mean you know haste doesn’t actually do anything to reduce your damage taken other than shorten the gap between shield block yea?
fathom field
Can you link your armory?
uneven mason
it lowers your GCD
chilly brook
Obv
uneven mason
which is an increase in your rage generation
chilly brook
But I mean it doesn’t mitigate anything
fathom field
damn
dark junco
Haste helps a ton with gcd, rage gen and mitig uptime
But, like i’m sad to say this, but seriously for fethid
dark junco
... indomitable?
chilly brook
LUL
fathom field
yo matt
chilly brook
Yes?
fathom field
haste helps you mitigate
chilly brook
Oh no way!
fathom field
Sha
dusk locust
i had into the fray the whole time but probably shouldn't have
fathom field
bra
dusk locust
i imagine you don't take it on fetid
fathom field
I'll teach you don't worry. I'd kill a kitten for kral's ring.
uneven mason
Kral, why would you take Indomitable?
chilly brook
Seems like overwhelming majority is still ITF on heroic fetid
dark junco
Then why : @chilly brook ´´I mean you know haste doesn’t actually do anything to reduce your damage taken ´´ Reducing damage taken isn’t mitigation?
fathom field
Kral bringing the truth
uneven mason
Because our survival on fetid is 100% based on keeping block up as much as possible
chilly brook
Because haste doesn’t actually modify any of those mitigation’s that you’re using 🤔
dark junco
Cause of the burst damage
chilly brook
Whereas something like versatility flat out is just mitigation
uneven mason
Haste, in a vacuum does not mitigate damage
uneven mason
it however, increases the rate at which you can use the abilities that mitigate the vast majority of our damge.
dark junco
But anyway I’m past that
digital arrow
🤔
dusk locust
what about heavy repurcussions on fetid
astral crystal
Haste does affect sblock tho 🤔
dark junco
If you have good heals, maybe indommitable is the solution until we have mote gear
astral crystal
Also man
dusk locust
sblock is what 6 seconds, and he spikes every 6 seconds?
dark junco
Every 4
fathom field
Adding a second to sb doesnt solve the issue that we cant keep am up and druids and monks can. Harder to find a pickup group to practice
dusk locust
oh is it 4
dark junco
Yed
dusk locust
every 4 melees though i thought
dark junco
Every 4 melees no?
dusk locust
if it's 6, with a single shield slam you can make your shield block 7 seconds long
fathom field
So it's like we can only do the content we are good at like island expos and five mans.
dusk locust
so with 1 shield block you block 2 attacks
chilly brook
Looking at a bunch of heroic parses for warriors on Fetid and seems like average they take is around 130k for Thrash 🤔
Don’t know what you’re doing
fathom field
damn
dusk locust
we're good at everything it just takes planning
chilly brook
@fathom field you don’t need AM up all the time only when it’s needed
dark junco
would love to see the death logs tho
steel mauve
I mean if you're taking the thrashes you wouldnt need to actually try to have 100% uptime as it only strikes the closest player to the active tank
dark junco
Can you parry trash?
uneven mason
no
dusk locust
it's about 100% effective uptime, not general uptime
and i think that might be easier to reach with HR
just thinking out loud
since the attacks are 6 seconds apart
dusk locust
is 1 shield block enough for 2 thrashes without HR?
fathom field
no
uneven mason
Also there is a secret to taking Thrash below 50%
steel mauve
Am and ravager
fathom field
ravager lol
uneven mason
(taunt swap)
uneven mason
the intended mechanic is for a tank to eat Trash until they run out of CDs
chilly brook
Seems like someone is doing something wrong tbh
uneven mason
and then swap.
uneven mason
Like, I was able to cover the last 50% by calling for externals
Because the monk nearly got 1 shot
so we swapped
sick sentinel
hey guys where can i find stat weights for prot war ?
chilly brook
I mean it’s not inconceivable that a monk could get one shot
dusk locust
we don't really have weights just a priority
chilly brook
Seeing as monk still takes 100% of the damage thrown out
Take a huge hit, take a large stagger tick right after because of it
fathom field
^ for sure
Just seemed that the monk did better than me in the raid with hots onhim
south steppe
does anyone know where u can get a decent shield fast? my shield is ilvl 280 and no other one is dropping
fathom field
If you find out tell me
That's kinda what's frustrating me. progression. doesn't feel right
fathom field
Been doing that
I think prot is awesome for m+ tbh
Just no loot. buying stuff on an is unrewarding to me idk
*ah
chilly brook
Doesn’t matter if it’s unrewarding lol
uneven mason
@fathom field I think he panicked, because the enrage caught him by surprise so he called for a swap hah
chilly brook
That shield matters a lot
uneven mason
it was the first THrash after 50% and he dropped to 8% health with red stagger so once he was topped I hit SW and started taking Thrash
But all in all
probably would've been fine if he had been a warrior ( because we have to think ahead)
fathom field
damn
uneven mason
BrM mitigates like warrior - on autopilot
fathom field
^ that's the prob for me
I want to tank the raid not respec arms to do it
Hard to find out spots to practice. all going to three classes basically
*pug spots
chilly brook
I mean there’s a lot of information out there to help you prepare ahead of time
So kinda curious did Mythrax hit like a truck for anyone else?
sick sentinel
motherlode +3 any tips ? i've done this only one time on m0
sick sentinel
i remember some pack hitting hard af
uneven mason
The masterminds after the 2nd boss are going to hurt like hell
sick sentinel
the double mastermind pack ?
uneven mason
don't be shy about using SW and a lot of CCs
dusk locust
yeah
fathom field
Spec menace and 2x aoe stun them
dusk locust
that one i'm weaving cds very carefully
fathom field
I didnt die once on motherload with two aoe stuns
sick sentinel
boss is easy as hell so it's better to use cd on pack i think ye
chilly brook
Anyone see how well bear is doing in raid?
uneven mason
The double MM pull we did by clearing along one side 100% and having a rogue aggro and kite the one MM away while we burned the other
chilly brook
Interested in having bear as an alt
chilly brook
I mean
Fun to me is being able to tank and pull competitive numbers with other tanks
uneven mason
Guardians are insane mana sponges thus far
chilly brook
Lol
uneven mason
Yeah, they're basically warriors without block
uneven mason
VDH and Guardians are so much manasponge
fathom field
Anyone run a high key as prot yet?
uneven mason
You could say that.
"Prot is shit in M+" TFW the #1 Dungeon in the world is a prot warrior...
chilly brook
Shouldn’t ironfur be one of the best mitigations?
uneven mason
Ironfur is a weaker block more or less heh
They also have very little they can do about magic damage ( we at least can frequently use IP)
chilly brook
The magic part is true
uneven mason
yeah nearly every boss has a ton of magic
Druids basically have FR every so often, and then a massive hP pool to soak it up
which requires extra healing
they're farther from death at any given moment than warriors (on average) but take more external intervention to stay alive through the same damage.
But thats how druids are designed
south steppe
is it only me or is the new azerit gear pretty boring in comparison to ther artifact weapon
chilly brook
The dtps doesn’t seem much higher though tbh
chilly brook
At least if you keep the fringe cases out
uneven mason
I mean none of the tanks are that far apart
every tank is "viable" but from also playing a healer in Mythics, I prefer to heal - Paladins, Warriors, Monks, BDKs, Druids, VDH in that order.
chilly brook
I walked into the Paladin discord last night and they were all complaining about being complained about
uneven mason
Druids and VDH tend to be pretty spikey and feels like it takes so much effort to get them back up to full HP
chilly brook
Because apparently they’re not doing so hot
uneven mason
Heh
chilly brook
“Apparently”
uneven mason
Well a lot of prot warriors feel we're doing bad
and I get asked when I pug why I'm a warrior
rather than a BDK
"Cuase BDK can heal themselves"
chilly brook
Lol
uneven mason
and I always reply "I'd rather not take the damage in the first place"
chilly brook
“Cuz I’m not an edgelord”
south steppe
i played healer in legion and i have to say, the less a tank can heal himself the easier it is to heal him
chilly brook
Well that’s how it should be
The more reliant you are on a healer the easier it should be for that cooperative play to happen
wary fractal
Hey guys, any tips for a new prot tank?
fathom field
I feel like us and bdks will do the best In mythic +. Need to kill a lot of trash ti hit the timers it seems.
chilly brook
Keep IP up at all times if you can, and only Shield Block when you know the damage coming in is both physical and heavy or when you know you don’t need to save it for something else but still want to reduce physical damage
chilly brook
What do you meeeeeeeaaaaaaannnnnn
south steppe
i thought its like the other way round
uneven mason
@wary fractal 
Marok wrote an amazing guide for new prot warriors up there, read it twice.
chilly brook
No reason to shield block if you’re not taking blockable damage @south steppe
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uneven mason
And furthermore, don't keep IP up as much as possible, use IP when you know a spike of damage, or magic damage is incoming, keep SB up as much as possible while fighting something that melees
tawny panther
Just keep screaming and stomping is a good start
uneven mason
That too
south steppe
@chilly brook how often is that happening while getting hit by 6 trash mobs
chilly brook
How often does getting hit by 6 trash mobs not fall under the category of “physical damage coming in and heavy”
tawny panther
Side question, anyone else feel awful tanking that hunter in the kings rest 4 trash room thing, after experiencing it on paladin for armour based mitigation I hate it can't be blocked
uneven mason
@wary fractal Protection warriors are 100% Predictive tanks, our strength is in quickly cycled CoolDowns (at higher levels) and being able to maintain a lot of uptime on Shield Block, we also do absolutely insane AE damage
But knowing the fight is going to be paramount to performing well as a prot warrior.
We're rewarded for good gameplay by taking less damage on avg than any other tank, however a mistake will generally put us in an unrecoverable position.
wary fractal
thanks for the tips guys
tawny panther
Shockwave thunder clap intervene heroic leap if it's trash :P
Recovery through cowardice
wary fractal
It has been absolutely terrible trying to find a shield
wary fractal
yeah
fathom marten
@chilly brook what?! You have IP and SB compeltley opposite
uneven mason
Yup shields are the unicorn of BFA
uneven mason
@fathom marten we covered it already
wary fractal
The honorable guard from ah
fathom marten
Yeah I see that now came in late
uneven mason
Just keep grinding
tawny panther
My paladin gets boes and shields like they are candy. Had to buy him trinkets tho
delicate prism
lol Kyle same
uneven mason
at 340 you should have no problem getting into +2 keys
just keep hitting AD and TD keys
tawny panther
TD?
wary fractal
I've been tanking +2s yea
tawny panther
Oh
uneven mason
Tol Dagor
wary fractal
But I can feel the hits
tawny panther
Yeah brain just didn't kick in
uneven mason
AD and TD are the 2 best dungeons for us
wary fractal
A new shield is +500 armor lol
uneven mason
each one has a 1h trinket and shield
fathom field
freehold and motherlode are ez for us
uneven mason
Trust me I was there as well 2 full weeks of mythic clears before I got mine.
No shield Screw :p
erm nm otherolode has one
as well
fathom field
Spec menace for freehold and motherload and you are rolling
dark junco
for ghuun, do you get the debuff when you grab it, or when you drop it?
chilly brook
@fathom marten I think you all misunderstood me.
Shield block will obviously mitigate more damage if it’s physical over its duration. However I keep up IP literally as often as possible
digital arrow
AD is a pain for me because the huge bubble and wildfire need to be interrupted and they come out at the same time
fathom field
Ip is behind demo shout sb and even spell reflect for me
digital arrow
Pug groups also never kill juggernauts first
fathom field
omg I know
chilly brook
Spell reflect doesn’t take a global afaik
clear matrix
is it really bad if i tank mythic + with rezans fury and swirling sands?
fathom field
So I guess we agree lol
chilly brook
Obviously if you IP over SB on fetid on a thrash you’re gonna die
willow wraith
does menace break on damage tho?
chilly brook
But if you have extra rage and don’t immediately need a SB it doesn’t hurt to IP
willow wraith
if its going to break instantly why not just fear?
uneven mason
@digital arrow Learn to train your group, gotta LOS some of the pulls in AD (a lot of the pulls)
fathom field
No way. cant take the chance of one pulling a mob on mythic +
in motherload the mobs are so close
uneven mason
TBH I found Stormbolt to be more beneficial on Motherlode
uneven mason
if you stun the jockey he stops
willow wraith
strm bol the techies
fathom field
for the jockey and mind things
willow wraith
usually if i fear i can tclap immediately afer
fathom field
master minds?
uneven mason
can't stun MM
dusk locust
i don't understand taking menace the fear instantly breaks anyway
prisma night
where does archive of the titans trait land for us?
its not on icyveins i dont think
fathom field
o. well I'll stick to menace then!
prisma night
or maybe im blind
fathom field
Rumbling earth seems better for most content though
digital arrow
I just shockaave jockey
uneven mason
@dusk locust situationally you'll want the duration extension and actually CC part of a pack
digital arrow
Shockwave
uneven mason
Pocky - Shockwave requires you to be up close
in Motherlord on Fortified you're going to be pulling back to a clear spot
always 1 pack back
is how you pull instances like that.
sick sentinel
anyone has a pawn string for stat weights?
uneven mason
otherwise you're going to get 3 packs and wipe
sick sentinel
the ask mrrobot seems off to me
uneven mason
Warriors don't use pawn Roody
sick sentinel
what do we use?
uneven mason
NO ONE should use AMR
fathom field
IS keeps all the casters at from casting them you get the demo shout and sr up
uneven mason
we use stat priority
for protectoin
and simC for Arms/fury
our stat weights are fluid for DPS
and our defensive stats are almost always going to be item level > all
for armor pieces
ilvl > haste > vers >= mastery > crit
for prot
open bluff
with top gear sims on raidbots, nobody should be using either pawn or amr
sick sentinel
i know that much
south steppe
and for rings?
chilly brook
Any thoughts on how many ilvls to sandbag for jewelry @uneven mason
uneven mason
depends how heavy the stats are
open bluff
(granted it doesn't work for prot, but it's still valid for most everyone else)
sick sentinel
what about 5ivl more but crit instead of haste
uneven mason
I mean, I wear a high vers/mast ring over a haste/crit ring
because I feel comfortable at 30% haste
dapper copper
Anyone know a good website for M+ % guides?
uneven mason
wowhead...
fathom field
practice lol
fathom field
Seems that the guides are missing some important stuff to me
uneven mason
your brain and your comp are what you need to consider.
fathom field
Like skipping bad packs
dapper copper
I’m talking very very specific pack by pack guide
wide juniper
Any of you OT for Fetid?
uneven mason
they have paths in there
uneven mason
Favon I took Trash from 50% whatsup?
chilly brook
I replaced a 350 ring with a 360
dusk locust
lots of OT fetid here yeah
chilly brook
Felt the extra stam and the mastery would be worth
wide juniper
Took thrash during 100% of the fight, good times
uneven mason
Warriors bestest at it
prisma night
yeah it was sick
dusk locust
it still hits crazy hard
wide juniper
Yeah, just lots of externals
uneven mason
its supposed to hit crazy hard
chilly brook
The one with IF? @dark junco
uneven mason
good thing he melts from 50% down
wide juniper
For sure
chilly brook
Unless your chest had DC then it’s worth tbh
dark junco
the one with lazer matrix
dark junco
I had DC
chilly brook
🤔 don’t they all have lazer matrix?
uneven mason
Mother fun
prisma night
why isnt archive of the titans trait on the icy veins guide?
chilly brook
Thought that was the raid specific trait
dark junco
No clue if they all have it
uneven mason
Dunno, ask Marok 😄
chilly brook
That makes two of us I suppose
prisma night
yeah but its still nice to know how good it stacks up
uneven mason
I'm not going to ping him tho
prisma night
if i were to guess its worth getting, but DC still top
blissful imp
Been comparing my damage taken numbers with other classes and feeling pretty good about it. 😀
river marsh
Hey guys for a plus 4 temple would you take Booming Voice or Devastator
willow wraith
i OTed fetid last night on heroic
river marsh
unsure as to what would be stronger
uneven mason
BV
ember arrow
U had SB up? @willow wraith
wide juniper
My issue with fetid was I would easily snag aggro from the MT monk
prisma night
wut
uneven mason
Monk needed to try harder
wide juniper
So I had to slow down my rotation which then slowed my damn rage gen
willow wraith
you kind of have to lol
wide juniper
it was dumb
prisma night
is he literally not pressing anything
wide juniper
The monk was....not ideal.
fathom field
how
uneven mason
Monks beat us in ST damage :p
prisma night
sounds like he needs to git gud
willow wraith
i know monks smooth thei dmg intake but my god their damage taken is huge compared to wars
prisma night
compared to everyone
fathom field
I mean in a raid it doesn't matter as much because of multiple hots
I'm not the raid expert but the monk seemed fine
uneven mason
Why couldn't you burn through your rage ? if you were taking thrash 100% should have been going into IP more or less heh
I mean SB and IP
prisma night
monk will always be good with stagger being the way that it is
sick sentinel
@shut summit Don't mean to bother you beeing afk, but which WAs do you use for frontal cones/AoE effects in m+?
The price for a view 😉
south steppe
gz
sick sentinel
gz
prisma night
i hate you a little bit
ember arrow
Skillforge
uneven mason
didn't think shields could TF
south steppe
yeah a friend said weapon slots only +10. not true as it seems
ember arrow
Makes sense if u dont think about it
raven kernel
b-but i shield slam
south steppe
i thought offhand is also a weapon slot
fair elm
So. In the pinned FAQ it says Prot is the best DPS -- but it seems like Vengence DH is the best DPS tank. Am I ill informed?
uneven mason
Yes
ember arrow
It seems from where
chrome falcon
Yep
raven kernel
there is no way venge can compete
uneven mason
Well, VDH isn't a slouch when it comes to AE damage either
prisma night
even st? cuz i know we're top aoe
amber siren
we're highest aoe dps yeah
raven kernel
ST we arent top, but pretty good
aoe we are top by far
incomparable
we are as good as any actual dps
on aoe
uneven mason
better generally
fair elm
That's what I meant. ST I thought Vengence DH are top.
uneven mason
I was doing about 30% of my raids damage on the blood trash before Zul last night
fair elm
And this is just the opinion I've gained from several YT guides, looking at some logs, etc.
uneven mason
Ok
prisma night
dont think we ever claimed top st dps
raven kernel
has been wrong about tanks
uneven mason
whats YT?
raven kernel
youtube
raven kernel
everyone ranked VDH #1 M+ tank
uneven mason
I didn't know people took YT guides seriously
raven kernel
and idk about you guys
uneven mason
it hadn't even crossed my mind
uneven mason
VDH are papertanks
austere oar
VDH is trash imo
uneven mason
being able to self heal for a ton doesn't matter if you die
before you can do anything
prisma night
"but utility and st dps" and im like "but dead"
fair elm
Interesting, interesting.
austere oar
vdh = bootleg bdk
uneven mason
they'll probably get better with a bit of gear
but VDH are literally the poster child of why we don't take Ravager
austere oar
their kit feels incomplete tbh
uneven mason
because parry isn' reliable
uneven mason
lack of core CDs
fair elm
I'm currently debating switching off of Prot Warrior (mostly because I don't like the buttons and feel of the class atm) largely because of their performance. Is the concensus here that they're among the better tanks for a raid environment? A week ago it seemed like people agreed Warriors have to work harder than other tanks to keep up (albeit they were still viable)
uneven mason
We do have to work harder
prisma night
thats what i like
ember arrow
I did switch off because the gcd
prisma night
if i can just death strike to win thats boring
ember arrow
Thats not how it works
fair elm
Fair 😃 I'm actually debating rolling Blood DK tbh.
But I need to turn it around this weekend if I'm going to make that switch -_-
uneven mason
If you're just slapping Deathstrike without optimizing your return, you're wasting resources more or less
its like us spamming IP when at stack
no point
prisma night
lol
chilly brook
@fair elm I mean we seem to take the least amount of damage so I don’t think working harder to achieve less damage overall isn’t a bad thing
prisma night
or monk
austere oar
monk can do basically better almost in everything
prisma night
might run out of purifyies tho
raven kernel
our pally OT was dying very often
fair elm
lol Yeah we did Fetid (only normal) last night. It was me + Vengence as our tanks. it hurt.
raven kernel
DH will totally get smashed on fetid
fair elm
But yes, I generally am smoother to heal than our VDH
raven kernel
call every external in the world
worthy yoke
Anyone else get that tanknotes.tk is trying to steal yo info?
fair elm
We will! 😛
uneven mason
Every tank can do any role more or less in this raid I mean..
its just that we get hit for like 70k and they get hit for 170k
fair elm
Item level is an issue for my guild atm. So we're still working up. Average ilevel of the raid is still hovering around 325-330~
austere oar
damn, y'all didnt play for the first 3 weeks or what ?
digital arrow
where'd you guys get your most recent shield drops? i'e been stuck with a 315 for a couple of weeks now but i've had better luck on other gear
digital arrow
gah
uneven mason
I'm still rocking a 340 (with socket)
fair elm
Yeah, a lot of our core members were MIA for 1-2 weeks at the start of BFA
digital arrow
i desperately need a 340
uneven mason
hopfully Ghuun drops a board for me
chilly brook
@austere oar like what?
sick sentinel
I'm praying for that shield of G'Huun, i got the one off Vectis last night
ionic ridge
I afk farmed herbs and skins and bought the 350 Oswain shield personally
ionic ridge
It was 160k on my realm
austere oar
monk is 100% AM uptime while being easier to heal and able to heal himself when big dmg
sick sentinel
i used a coin on Mythrax for the sword and i got elegiggled
prisma night
4 orbs implies you took 400% of your hp pool in dmg
chilly brook
^
austere oar
on a long tanking phase
austere oar
in m+ when you pull big trash you're around 11k hps as a monk
chilly brook
I mean when I pull big as prot I’m at around 7-8k hps as a warrior
That last stand bruh
uneven mason
TFW the mobs start dropping and VR comes up
chilly brook
^
uneven mason
I'll even sit on a TC if I Know the mobs are about to get within range of dying from it (like 1/2 GCD delay) so I can start snaggin them free heals
depending on the pull size can really get rough once SW goes down
but once VR shows up
omnomnomnom fullhealth
raven kernel
yeah you can definitely get alot of victory rush heals off
in dungeons
other tanks would be like trying to kite
warriors just
man up
KILL DEM
AND HEAL
raven kernel
of course
chilly brook
When talking about two tanks that aren’t built to rely on their self heals you can call their healing fairly irrelevant
raven kernel
still can hit stuff with TC while kiting too
digital arrow
lmao
chilly brook
@austere oar about the only thing monks do better than a warrior is smoothing out damage and single target DPS
uneven mason
Crackling Thunder is pretty snazzy for doing that.
chilly brook
Prot will overall take less damage
chilly brook
Monks have always and continue to be the highest damage taken
austere oar
thats normal
uneven mason
and monk isn't QUITE as autopilot as I like to meme about
austere oar
monks dont reduce dmg intake
uneven mason
a bad monk is still bad
raven kernel
they do reduce it a little with purify brews
chilly brook
I mean that purify is basically a “can healers keep up? If yes hold, if no use.” Button
austere oar
yeah you sometimes PB
uneven mason
Stagger delays damage, purify removes it. yeah. I Mean, Monks have a 2 part active mitigation system while warriors have a single part AM system.
round vortex
I DID IT TEAM!
uneven mason
A good monk will purify certain damage before they even findout if the healers can keep up heh.
raven kernel
i mean if you're on full charges
uneven mason
since taking 1 tick of some mechanics is bad juju
chilly brook
I still think all tanks could benefit from a blackout combo style talent
raven kernel
might as well
chilly brook
That’d be real decision making without having to push the gcd on everything
uneven mason
a monk at 3 brew charges is the same as a warrior at 2 charges of sB bad 😛
errant coral
hey guys, so i have a 345 rezans gleming eye or a 345 jes howler, which do you think?
ember arrow
Both
errant coral
i have darkmoon blockade in the other slot 😛
chilly brook
Jes’
mystic ferry
What bosses will you guys be using bonus loot on? Not sure if I should go with shield bosses or trinket
uneven mason
Shield
Shield is always going to be our largest return, and the trinkets from Uldir kind've suck outside of being high item level
all things equal a rezan's or howler at the same item level will kick the snot out of anything that drops in Uldir
Introductory raid tanking trinkets are almost always lackluster
topaz ember
i got the 370 trinket from the world boss wish it was an armour peice tho :c
sick plinth
worth rerolling on this weeks world boss for the trinket?
mortal pike
No
topaz ember
I'd reroll for the shoulders the only 370 shoulders i can get from heroic are on the second last boss which i wont be killing for a while and they have brace for impact
sick sentinel
How do you deal with the berserkers in kings rest?
I usually try to force every other bleed to go on a dps so it doesn't stack on anyone
mystic ember
CC the other adds and burn it first.
sick sentinel
It has the most health out of all the adds there tho
You could cc it and then burn everything else instead
got Prism of the Dark Intensity topady from the world boss, is it good?
uneven mason
@sick plinth Shoulders from Doomhowl is BiS for Prot
sick sentinel
is there any trinket bis list out there?
uneven mason
@sick sentinel
sick plinth
Cheers all
sick sentinel
there is no bis list in the pins, so im asking u
dark junco
Well with trait, there’s still almost BiS
uneven mason
however, those trinkets give you a solid idea, follow stat priority, ilvl with str/haste will generally be stronger than mastery vers etc..
Azerite lists are different
Azerite can't TF
so you have a BiS list of traits to obtain, and azerite gear is set what traits it gives
uneven mason
erm
well gonna argue that isn't all that matters
but DC is certianly worth its weight
probably the only reason you'd sacrifice item level gains
is to keep a single DC trait
But for trinkets @sick sentinel There is a list there of what benefits us, but using your brain is going to be required since item levels are allover the place.
SO just judge each trinket, based on the merits of its stats (High item level str is basically armor for us)
sick sentinel
ok thank u guys
restive linden
hey guys, is there a place I can find sims about the best race for prot warrior on horde side?
mainly want to know which should be better between Tauren vs their Highmountain counterpart
timber stump
sick sentinel
Tauren has more hp and other tauren takes less damage
It's hard to tell which one is better
Normal cow is harder to oneshot but mountain cow saves a tiny amount of mana
vagrant cape
you misspelled "moose" pretty badly
vocal nimbus
Mountain cow = moose
sick sentinel
Moos
strong hill
Tauren = biggest character in the raid. No way they can miss you 😃
vagrant cape
gnome is vastly superior. Change my mind. rests feet on table
clear matrix
is it worth buying blockades rn ?
vagrant cape
trolls still have that haste buff ability, right? that sounds nice
craggy harness
Stop lying down on the table Byron... that's the only way gnomes can get their feet there.
old night
Did you guys MT or OT Fetid? I Off tanked and took the big 4th swing and felt like I was getting my ass widened.
strong hill
Lol
@old night I took the 4th swing. Really missing the legendary pants for the 3 charges of shield block
old night
Yeah, I got fucking nuked at like 10%
vagrant cape
I played arms for fetid 😢
old night
vagrant cape
what, you don't have 200k hp?
clear matrix
could some1 please answer my question
vagrant cape
guess you just gotta use stam flasks and food :Kappa:
clear matrix
? i wont be raiding soon but i was wondering if buying blockades is worth it now
vagrant cape
it's very nice defensively
it also depends on your other trinkets and how much it costs and how valuable that gold is to you
strong hill
@clear matrix if you can get blockades at a decent price go for it.
vagrant cape
but for me it was definitely worth the 60k
vagrant cape
also, check for the individual cards, I saved like 20k by doing that instead of buying it outright
old night
idk about you but on our server he said that for 10k he still made profit off me, just not as much as if it was on the AH
strong hill
@old night ya I would hover at 10-15% on the last application of the hit.
old night
yeah, I don't have 200k health for sure. It would pummel me bad
guess I gotta just gear up a little, maybe stam flask?
little star
film was that hit through block?
old night
yeah
little star
jesus
clear matrix
it's 16k on my server
old night
wnat me to link log/armory?
sick sentinel
Press shield block 
sick sentinel
You can go HR for uptime
strong hill
Ya the hit is a big one. I derped my rotation and didn’t have block up for a hit. Popped shield wall and it still hits hard.
sick sentinel
You should swap when you run out of cooldowns
sick sentinel
You don't need block for tanking the boss as much as the big swing
raven kernel
i cant post the pic of the 2nd death but its teh same
old night
Nah it's fine
Thanks. I appreciate it
I'll have to pay attention to my roto more on that.
raven kernel
block is pretty much why warriors are super good on fetid
and without it we arent better than any other tank
modern steppe
So we should aim to have both SB and IP up at the time?
old night
Thanks guys. It's definitely nice having a discord where I don't get memed on for a basic fucking death
raven kernel
you can see when the next trash is coming by looking at fetid's buff
old night
I appreciate it @raven kernel
sick sentinel
Why are you using wall and last stand together
Don't tell me you put them in one macro
uneven mason
@old night gaps in your block uptime are going to happen
strong hill
Probably full on panic mode. I know I’ve done it.
raven kernel
you can let the gaps happen in between trashes
uneven mason
You need to spot them and either swap for a few, or call for an Xgernal
plain ice
i put demo, wall, last stand, shield block, and ignore pain in one macro
uneven mason
well not 100% of the Rei
IP and DS are on the GCD
so your macro wouldn't work Crumgee
GG
plain ice
i wasn't serious m8
fathom field
+o lol
strong hill
Lol.
uneven mason
I was just thinking you were
uneven mason
a VDH
uneven mason
who watches prot warriors tank and gets all jealous like its easy
plain ice
ravager 😍
strong hill
@raven kernel I was about to say, swap to ravager 😝
plain ice
LOL
strong hill
If we’re going to meme, better meme hard
uneven mason
Also, if you hangout here enough, you'll see worse ideas try to be floated
raven kernel
XD
plain ice
do you think someone at blizzard is sitting there looking at ravager and is like "this looks good"
uneven mason
like that one dude that keeps coming back and talking about using NS
strong hill
@plain ice probably.
uneven mason
Yeah they probably do, because mathematically, Ravager isn't bad, mechanically its flaming dog shit
plain ice
do people actually take these talents? personally, i've never seen anyone with ravager
raven kernel
what about that one that was like.. dont like using last stand for bolster so he specs indom
restive mauve
I use ravager sometimes if bigger dps on a specific pull is needed
strong hill
I think I used ravager once back in legion for black rook hold.
strong hill
So how many years ago that was 🤣
amber siren
Ravager does very very poor damage
uneven mason
Indomitable will save me from being one shot outside of my shield block!! 1. No it wont, 2. Not having bolster just means you're without block more???
Ravager back before they gutted its damagewas fun
plain ice
i'm really hoping they add something nice for us in 8.1
uneven mason
FUN mind you possibly not optimal, but fun.
plain ice
like when they added devastator in for the first time
uneven mason
I hope
amber siren
I can understand new prot warriors taking hr though like getting more sb uptime sounds better
plain ice
that's the dream boys
strong hill
WTB heroic strike for 8.1
sick sentinel
I miss devastator
uneven mason
they have something nice in 8.1 called "leaving us the fuck alone for once"
strong hill
^ oooo even better.
plain ice
i don't like the GCD changes - but that's just on any class in general
plain ice
except for charge being on the GCD - that feels gross
sick sentinel
Give all tanks the rogue gcd
strong hill
WTB banners
plain ice
add spawns and i'm spamming this button for 1.5 seconds
after years and years of being used to insta-charge - it feels like 💩
plain ice
GCD - fine or you enjoy it?
sick sentinel
Any advice on not getting shit on by Mythrax's freight train melees?
uneven mason
just because a button that didn't used to be on the GCD is on the GCD now doesn't change how I perform the role
🛡 ⬜
sick sentinel
Yes yes shield block
plain ice
correct - but it does feel clunkier/less responsive
sick sentinel
It sucks how you need 4 gcd to set up your mitigation in m+
paper flower
A new 8.1 change for prot warrior its revolutionary..its new its cool , watch them remove ignore pain of the gcd
sick sentinel
What about when sb is down... do I save demo for when sb is down or stack them and then sw?
uneven mason
💣 🏛 📢
You don't save it
I'd say, run SW to cover a gap if you're feeling very squishy, call for externals (those are a thing for you)
sick sentinel
I wish demo applied high threat
mkay
So you could open with it in m+ and not lose aggro
plain ice
bring back challenging shout
sick sentinel
Setting up your defense takes too long in dungeons
uneven mason
Wat?
strong hill
@plain ice taunt banner would be nice. I can think of some crappy packs it would be nice for
plain ice
i'd be down with that
uneven mason
Avatar - charge - TC + SB - DS - TC? too long?
Like you have a "defensive" up the instant you reach melee range
sick sentinel
You'll often lose aggro if you don't rev early
uneven mason
the fuck
plain ice
avatar before the pull helps a lot
uneven mason
seeing as TC hits almsot 3x as hard as Rev
uneven mason
I seriously doubt you're going to be worried about a rev
digital arrow
Are you guys tellin me that timing shield blocks to coencide with fetid devourer thrash is more important than spamming SB anytime it's off CD?
plain ice
but this is what i'm saying - the GCD changes really don't feel that good overall
digital arrow
Spamming SB the instant it comes off CD*
uneven mason
Why would you demo on the charge
digital arrow
I haven't fought fetid yet i am worried about thrash 😟
uneven mason
I get why you guys are having a hard time
plain ice
i'm not having a hard time?
uneven mason
ya'll are playing like flipperhanded monkeys