The problem is that the game doesn't teach you to use utility as you level.
A mob is casting a spell that will hit you for 3 % of your HP.
You could stun the mob, but that costs a GCD.
You could cancel your own cast to interrupt, but it's just not worth it.
#protection
junior igloo
neat harbor
guys curious about your thoughts on this. when I first started playing prot I felt quite a bit weaker than my brew monk, but now that both are @ 340 ish ilvl with good itemization I feel so much stronger on warrior. I almost get the impression that warriors scale better than other tanks with good traits/gear, at least when compared to my monk. I feel like survivability per ilvl didnt increase as much on monk nearly as much as it did with warrior. shield block feels amazing suddenly. also the damage is incredible for a tank with tclap spam so I like that. curious about others thoughts on scaling
by stronger on warrior I dont mean necessarily compared to brew, I mean compared to being 310/320 ilvl, relative to the monk when he gained similar ilvls
strong forum
Well I think monk is special in that way, I never played it so it's just my general thought, since stagger will always be the same. You don't suddenly feel that you midigate much more
neat harbor
also magic damage is rough at times still, but I put a point in bloodsport and it seems to be helping with IP absorbs on magic
strong forum
But I do think prot will make a "comeback" as In people will start to notice how strong we actually are
I could be wrong though
neat harbor
I feel very strong with being able to have plenty of rage for IP, I just wish it wasnt on the GCD.
and IP itself feels strong mitigation wise
strong forum
Same
neat harbor
right nome, stagger is great but scales less by its nature, whereas at my current ilvl shield block makes me feel almost immune to damage at times
junior igloo
Warriors/Paladins take a lot less damage compared to a monk but are much more susceptible to dying in a short burst from a single mistake.
What is "better" depends on the type of content you are doing
austere oar
both warrior and monk are very different, where a Prot warrior will excel in massive accidental trashpulls with a lot of defensives and damage reduction, a monk will struggle, whereas on a sustained heavy physical damage on boss, monk will severely outperform
neat harbor
I suspect the scaling of ShBlock is such now that gaining a lot of STR in a short period of time is whats making it feel amazing for me suddenly
havent looked into the exact math of the reworked block mechanics
junior igloo
Blocking is mostly depending on the item level of your shield
strong forum
As iirc meiffert once said, monk is prot warri in cruise control mode
junior igloo
That wasn't me 😃
strong forum
Ah well. Was someone yellow
austere oar
kinda right, monk is tbh pretty dumb to play and my monk main is 345 atm
strong forum
As monk you can't just not midigate
neat harbor
actually Im going to echo sickness and say that on huge trash pulls, my monk actually feels squisher at 340 than my warrior
strong forum
As warri you can fuck up
austere oar
the real strenght of monk is like DK, the 100% AM uptime
strong forum
I mean we have that
austere oar
as prot, pally, dh etc
austere oar
press ISB, you have that
neat harbor
but I find that I can do one of two things, 1. "Weave" IP in between ShBl to offset the uptimes to be at 100%, or if I have huge incoming physical damage, used 2/3 ShBl in a row followed by some IP spam
strong forum
With IP, in between, is really strong
normal cypress
Can prot use fist weapon to use all abilities like back in wod or it's not counted?
neat harbor
I frankly am not having periods where I dont have 100% uptime on AM atm, that will likely change in M+ when Ip gets taken off in a global at times
strong forum
Yes you can, just get a fist weapon with str is the hard part
normal cypress
I just got a WQ with it
and i remember when i fucked up and bought dagger instead of 1h sword week ago
austere oar
dont understand the IP nerf + on the GCD
normal cypress
could not use revenge
austere oar
they could just have nerfed the value
undone sun
they added a gcd to just about every tank, it's not news that they wanted to slow down the pace
which is what the gcd does
neat harbor
the way IPs are stacking now and demo off CD as much as it is, as well as a point in the bloodsport trait, my IPs are making me feel quite safe
its a lot more noticeable on prot, thyme
austere oar
except monk
neat harbor
adding a GCD for some spell is one thing, putting it on your AM is another
hexed atlas
does anyone know if you genrate rage when hit by a cast ? cause it feels like you dont get any rage
neat harbor
for uber cup-drooling brew spam
neat harbor
no more scandalous than IP is imo
austere oar
true
neat harbor
anyways all this to say Im feeling a lot more confident in the face of the folks who laughed at me when I told them I intended to do M+ as prot
so well see how I feel after trying some +4 keys
hopefully higher
fingers crossed
austere oar
tanking should be good, depends on your group
neat harbor
very true
also the self sustain traits on az armor are fantastic
even the minor sustain added to warriors mitigation is so good
more for open world stuff than dungeons
austere oar
had a mate play vampiric speed (?) on his tank monk, insane self healing on trash
austere oar
same im only 20 ^^
strong forum
Won't be seeing t3 traits for a while when m+ comes out
385 needs like what 28 or 29 for 3rd row
static pilot
Hm... Are large raids inconvenienced on Mother? Guides are suggesting 3 chars run through the walls at a time, that will take a while with 30 raiders
ruby python
so i have been leveling as prot doing dungeons , first warrior
i main a dh tank , i got a question
on the dh i have a fairly low cd on my jump , so i can actually use it on most pulls (sometime even twice) , how am i supposed to "start" a pull as prot warr when heroic leap is on cd?
prisma crane
charge
amber siren
avatar, charge, sb
strong forum
Tests were made with ilvl 320 on normal
You should be safe with like 5 people going in at once NP
If not more
ruby python
so charge , avatar and thunderclap for a first burst of agro and move from there?
strong forum
Or Avatar charge Tc Demo revenge
I usually just go with charge demo TC Avatar SB IP
And heroic leap when I have enough rage before the pull
strong forum
Ye it is
ruby python
im also really rage starved , i dont know if im using revenge too often (outside of free procs) but i find myself really low on rage to keep sb / ip up
prisma crane
combination of that and prob missing a lot of SSs
austere oar
rage should overflow in trashpulls, you're doing too much revenge i'd say
ruby python
and i legit dont understand how IP is on the GCD , its so awkward to use
strong forum
Idk im fine with IP
It's awkward to start a pull by shouting 3 times though
Avatar Demo IP
That is awkward
austere oar
my mag'har screaming to death during trash
ruby python
im fine with all the other skills on gcd but IP always feels weird to use , w/e i guess i need more experience
raw gyro
the icy veins talents in the pinned msg, is still up to date?
undone sun
yes
austere oar
what's weird is when you ava, you can't effectively use your TC with all the GCD
that's where IP is, i feel, breaking my rotation
tawny panther
I often just don't feel the kit is cohesive. That's a good example of it, where you can't use IP with TC with proper effective play. Feel like you are always just borking something
Or the various stuff on pull so lose out on SS and therefore feel SB is losing something, but that's just how we work, which isnt ideal
raw gyro
what are you guys running as tier 5 talent?
austere oar
rumbling
tawny panther
Same, you can fear and clap to break if need the aoe interrupt after Shockwave
austere oar
mb blizz will do something on the first patch after the raid
not normal when you have to use your spells before pulling bc you won't have time to protect yourself otherwise
could say it's the same for dps as prepull but idk, doesnt feel the same as tank imo
tawny panther
Do dps prepull like that? Prepot yes but yeah
tawny panther
Some specs will then, Ret pops wings a few globals in to get inquisition going first
Feels so wonky for prot war mainly because you feel like wasting deafening crash value. At least that's the case for me
austere oar
well you have let's say 2.2 secs CD on TC
you use it, then IP, SS, just this you're at 3 seconds GCD
anything you do further is time wasted on your next TC which is already available
tawny panther
Problems worse during Ava too
junior igloo
The cooldown of Thunderclap is always 4 GCDs (and 2 GCDs during Unstoppable Force.
(The cooldown is reduced by haste at the same rate as GCD)
ember arrow
Other tanks' secondary AM are also on gcd, but none of them are used as often as IP so it feels bad
While others dont
tawny panther
Yeah, if it was significantly larger, randomly going to say 4 times, but had the 1.3 cap still, so recast was much less. Might make it feel better
static pilot
Duration could be slightly improved too
austere oar
Yeah when I said 2 secs CD, i mean under Ava
strong forum
4 times cap wouldn't help, currently it runs out more often cuz of duration and not amount
static pilot
Well, it runs out on duration because we outgear the current content (m0s)
It'll get stripped faster on raids/m+
strong forum
Ofc
austere oar
I wonder if it will be the same as legion, like stack up rage to pop an IP which get destroyed in 1 or 2 autos
strong forum
Usually it won't unless it's a big magic hit or mechanic
You have to take upwards of 50k in a single hit for it to get chewed through in 1 attack which is quite huge
austere oar
right, + supposedly you'll have shield block up if such a hit is coming
tawny panther
Seems like a valid number to get chewed in a couple globals on a higher key maybe
Not in 1 or 2 autos but the scenario is the same from our side and IP usage/feel
quick vessel
we have a shamy in raid, and we love her mastery
austere oar
my RL is weird and switched from disco legion to rsham in bfa ^^
sick sentinel
And Sulphate (our Raid Leader) was a Holy pala the whole Legion and wanted to play disc this time
quick vessel
guys. Its darkmoon a good trinket por prot warrior to start uldir ?
austere oar
bis defensively iirc
quick vessel
thanks! I read guides but each one say a different thing 😃
austere oar
pre-raid i mean
sick sentinel
Really good and Really cheap (compared to others)
austere oar
then after launch, there's one on a WB iirc
sick sentinel
mind if I drop the whole roster?
austere oar
even 2 tank warr is not a good idea
i like having diversity in terms of tanking classes
sick sentinel
I asked for the double tank warr
austere oar
oh rly ?
sick sentinel
because our Prot pala left the guild
because she wanted to join an all swedish guild
austere oar
well im main BrM and my mate is blood, that's our comp
he compensates my flaws
double warr you'll have the same flaws
sick sentinel
no magic damage mitigation is our major flaw right?
except the 20% from spell reflec I guess
austere oar
tbh i didnt look much at raid strat yet, but it reminds me of Vari MM where as a monk it was extrememy difficult to perform as BDK, pally's and DHs as a main tank
I had to be the rotation guy for the debuff bc they main tanked the boss much better than myself
sick sentinel
tbh we have a monk that has tank offspec because he was tanking dungeons start of bfa
sick sentinel
once you get the feel of it, I find tanking less stressful tbh
undone sun
it's more responsibility
austere oar
it's different tbh, every role has its obligation
solar hatch
I am really lazy tbh 😛
sick sentinel
because I am leading guild dungeons groups and it is easier having matters in your own hands
austere oar
tanking is difficult to get in because of appreciation of the role, tbh I was scared to start tanking bc it implies responsiblities
solar hatch
True @sick sentinel
austere oar
you lead the grp
solar hatch
Yeah
austere oar
but you should know that there is no better time to start tanking than an early xpac
tawny panther
Just expected to have more knowledge but a little communication goes a long way and very true about expac starts being a learning time for all
sick sentinel
also, I do dungeons almost exclusively with guildies
so we are on discord like 90% of the time
austere oar
tanking is great also when pugging like for example the totem boss of atal dazar
sick sentinel
Even though what we say the most is "insert any curse word, I pulled "
austere oar
you're "you go on this totem, you focus this one, rogue the last" etc
solar hatch
fathom or blockades?
sick sentinel
Blockades has 1/4th the price of fathoms
and it is the best pre-raid trinket
and it also gives you Some kind of healing (although minimal)
sick sentinel
well it was 50 k on my realm and I bought each card individually and it cost me 36k
sick sentinel
GET IT
austere oar
Been playing with the trinket that drop 2nd boss of Sethraliss that spread poison In a cone in front of you
Dmg is so insane when ava's popped up
formal kayak
do multiple deafening crash traits stack?
austere oar
The damage stacks but not the duration
muted crane
@formal kayak One trait is enough.
tiny sundial
austere oar
yeah it's just behind TC on trash where ava is popped
only downside is the channelling time, you have to pop a SB and/or IP to be safe
formal kayak
Today at 8:46 AM
@Achiron One trait is enough.```
yeah but I have two because of item levelwas using the shield slam one before
austere oar
is the block tooltip IG bugged in his display ?
i have a "blocking reduces damage of an attack by 3622.00%"
sick sentinel
I want to get Azerite veins so much
but it is in shit outer pieces
so only from uldir and exalted with champions :/
strong forum
Well I got insane shoulders from WQ with Iron fortress and azerite veins
And using chest from underrot isn't half bad
So I can use double AV if I want to
sick sentinel
well my ideal is DC and 2 Brace for impact with at least one AV
untold adder
brace for impact is amaz
but its so wierd to play w/o that one DC , you just gotta have it so good.
esp. during avatar stomp-session
the helm from underrot has iron fortress and azerite veins if you'd like
next goblet
so im totally playing unoptimal.. but its brought me renewed fun into my prot war
and i mean as long as im not dying, im doing quite alright as a tank lol
and the healers have no complaints either
ember arrow
if healers arent complaining, and you say you play suboptimally
either you do too easy content, or you actually dont play suboptimally
tawny panther
Hmmm nah I agree with him, I feel I play sub optimally a bunch but it's fine with m0
The more the content presses me the more optimally I play though , I just lazy/unfocus when it's easy
delicate breach
Discord tank ranking: Monk>Dk>Druid>Paladin>war>DH. Its true or false?
ember arrow
wat
for waht?
m+, raids?
which encounters?
what is it based on?
some tanks can do much better in specific fights
delicate breach
Raids and m+
empty nacelle
thats a real thumb suck
next goblet
well by suboptimally i mean i just dont feel like using BV
and right now all i can do M0 since m+ isn't out and neither is uldir
ember arrow
monk and bear are the safe picks for raiding
as always
if u want to watch netflix during progression
for m+, it'll prob be dk, dh then rest
although ultimately, if you come here asking that question, that means that you arent in a guild where it matters
delicate breach
Nope. For nm/hc its ok...
ember arrow
for nm/hc it wont matter at all
i think it'll be same pattern as legion
in that regard
tawny panther
I've recently gone as dps to a few runs to see how other tanks do it, and seen well geared monks and bears get tricked into oblivion somehow even just m0
Trucked even
next goblet
they must not be very good
tawny panther
But those tanks have a serious limit to not being good enough for a floor
Like I'm fairly sure a relatively well aimed facesmash will get your basics going
ember arrow
well, bears arent amazing at dungeons
and monks that play well are kiting more than facetanking
tawny panther
I figured defensively they would be ok with 100% uptime
ember arrow
meaningless
their self heal is small
and they are horrendous vs magic
like, anything
compact mirage
Some Info on Mytic+ for you guys
Mythic+ Rewards
Keystone Level End of Dungeon Weekly Chest Azerite Armor from Weekly Chest
Mythic 2 345 355 340
Mythic 3 345 355 340
Mythic 4 350 360 355
Mythic 5 355 360 355
Mythic 6 355 365 355
Mythic 7 360 370 370
Mythic 8 365 370 370
Mythic 9 365 375 370
Mythic 10+ 370 380 385
Mythic+ Number of Affixes
Keystone Level # Affixes
Mythic 0 0
Mythic 2 1
Mythic 4 2
Mythic 7 3
Mythic 10+ 4
Mythic+ Affix List
https://www.wowhead.com/affixes
-- Mythic +2
Fortified
Tyrannical
-- Mythic +4
Sanguine
Skittish
Necrotic
Bursting
Volcanic
Teeming
Raging
-- Mythic +7
Explosive
Quaking
Grievous
-- Mythic +10
Infested
Mythic+ Dungeon List by Time
01. The Underrot - 30:00 min
02. Freehold - 30:00 min
03. Tol Dagor - 33:00 min
04. Temple of Sethraliss - 33:00 min
05. King’s Rest - 33:00 min
06. Atal’Dazar - 39:00 min
07. Shrine of the Storm - 39:00 min
08. MOTHERLODE!! - 39:00 min
09. Siege of Boralus - 39:00 min
10. Waycrest Manor - 39:00 min
tawny panther
I hadn't seen times tbf, not that I've checked it yet
KR is pretty quick. Just compressed difficulty
ember arrow
well, luckily i wont pug
but i want to see ppl underestimating m+
they'll pull 2 packs on +2
then get pranked
tawny panther
That'll be me
tawny panther
Well I'll do it on my paladin first then lol
compact mirage
Has any of you guys an info on the weekly chest and war-/timeforge? Azerite Armour cannot war-/titanforge. But I read that weapons cannot roll war-/titanforge in the weekly chest aswell. True or False?
tawny panther
I understand there's a cap so they don't exceed 385
ember arrow
i do looooove /s the fact that u get 1-3 items
tawny panther
On anything that can
ember arrow
so someoen might have 3 items after 3 weeks
and somneone else 9
:))))))))))))))))))))))))
tawny panther
Engaging gameplay
ember arrow
and i will be that guy wiuth 3 items after 3 resets
tawny panther
I'm wondering how difficult a plus 10 will be week 1
That's a large ilvl gap
Although I suspect the 7/8/9 in time will be harder than just finishing the 10
ember arrow
+10 will be like
progressing m boss
or worse
+10 on beta with 370 gear was already challenging
tawny panther
Dunno, no timers so surely it's just a case of committing to pushing through
ember arrow
what do you mean no timers
tawny panther
Isn't the weekly chest based on completion not within time limit , been on break too long to remdmber
Only the keystone upgrades are time based
tawny panther
In my own world it was
But yeah that's why I think the keystone to upgrade to a 10 might be harder than the 10 itself
ember arrow
exactly
tawny panther
He says underestimating infested
next goblet
noice
NOOOOO
I GOT 340 AZERITE SHOULDERS BUT I LOSE MY DC TRAIT
fuuuuuuuu
WTB helm with DC
tawny panther
This is why bags are dying
Gotta carry a grummles worth of shit with you for a swap around
next goblet
mmhmm
tawny panther
Exactly what blizzard didn't want they claimed when making ilvl king
Along with the whole low stuff worse etc
strong forum
It's not that bad tbh
I'm carrying like what, 10 pieces currently
And when you upgrade to 385s it will be empty for a while again
amber siren
Yeah for real, compared to legion carrying a bunch of legendaries, trinkets, m+ avoidance/speed sets
merry cave
Yeah but now you get more choice 😂
amber siren
👀
fierce halo
@next goblet grind your rep with champions to exalted, the helmet has the DC trait
tawny panther
You lost me at grind rep. I just finished that...sort of
Still need my exalted HB for true warrior race and probably future quests
And the coa grind is ongoing on alt 
mellow bridge
Hey guys, how much is avoidance worth it? Atm I got 3 x 340 rings and idk which ones I should use:
- 193 stamina 171 haste 181 mastery
- 193 stamina 236 versa 116 mastery + gem
- 193 stamina 201 crit 151 mastery 60 avoidance
usually I'd use number 1 and 2, but idk how much the 60 avoidance is worth
amber siren
check the stat priorities in the pins my dude
sick sentinel
avoidance doesnt worth dropping better stats or sockets
amber siren
tldr 1-2 defensively, 1-3 for dps
steel mauve
its nice to have, i wouldnt actively try to get it
sick sentinel
and they nerfed avoidance speed leech in bfa you dont get much from them like you did in legion
mellow bridge
@amber siren I did check the stat prio in the icy veins guide but there was nothing about avoidance there unless I missed it
amber siren
none of the tertiary stats are worth anything
you can't stack them reliably
and they barely give much anymore
mellow bridge
I see
that's what i was wondering; if it's worth losing some other stats for or not
thanks for the answers
tawny panther
Nah it's a happy bonus if it happens
Don't use them in decision making
Leech maybe worth something for healers still? But doubtful and not worth on rest
vocal nimbus
@undone sun are you sleeping?
jagged bay
hey would u guys rather use jes on 340 or a gilded loa figurine on 350 im a bit unsure guide says 15+ilvl for the other trinkets
stoic kite
What's an easy mythic to tank? Im a little undergeared. Did Freehold and seige of boralus sof ar
ember arrow
ataldazar
stoic kite
cool thx
steel mauve
ilvl wins out mostly on pieces with str/armor on them @stoic kite
i think rings you try to itemize better to an extent
stoic kite
I thought so. I got 355 legs from Freehold o.o master crit though
actually mastery haste but mastery is the bigger number
sick sentinel
i feel like i take no damage since i use shield block in fights
pretty usefull spell
stoic kite
I still take a lot of dmg 😦
sometimes I get trigger happy on revenge
or dump all into IP
sick sentinel
yeah i'm trying to not spam revenge now
survavibility is really good now
underot and the dungeon with chtulu felt liek a breeze
thought on lingering sporepod ?
ember arrow
if u got high ilvl, the STR is good, the effect is negligible
autumn cosmos
i was adjusting some weak auras and just realized my shield block keybind had shield slam on it instead
seems like ive done 3 weeks of mythics without shield block
very nice
sick sentinel
340 sporepod or https://i.imgur.com/FBhOkQx.png
and i never use the button active
as i forget
quasi blade
macro it in
crimson sentinel
stoic kite
Should I do str or stam gems
sick sentinel
really like the maccro will shoot it on my target without me focusing it ?
valid pumice
i been using haste gems
stoic kite
oh good idea
also is there a way to make it more obvious if I lost agro
the nameplates are kinda small
i can see them glow sometimes if I lose it
tawny panther
Macro to avatar. It places a ground target
I have blood fury on bars still too so if avatar is popped earlier due to am I can see and hit the macro again for missiles n blood fury
spice musk
Hey guys i need a azerite trait ranking or something what is better avoidance with life leech or a chance of mastery proc
or or or
tawny panther
Elv or any nameplate add-on seem fine out the box flash means getting close and goes red if lose it
Icy veins has it
tawny panther
It's basically take a specific 2 or 3 otherwise go for the stats boost
Although winds procs a lot so not bad
solid mist
you all prefer arms or fury as you roffspec? why?
tawny panther
Arms, it's better
Fury is pretty fun but feels super spammy
I'm happy with either so I just play the stronger spec
solid mist
I guess not needing to maintain 2 up-to-date weapons is nice also
willow dirge
Fury is way too button mashy for me tbh
placid citrus
Hail!
I got 2 ?’s
- Is it fun to protecc atm?
- Is it any difficult in m+Os?
tawny panther
Yea, no
steel mauve
arms is much higher dps over fury too
and you can make a marco to cause ground effects to be targetted on your person right under you, or as a "mouse over mode" to spawn on your mouse, and idk but possibly on your target as well
tawny panther
Just leave it as default it's useful being able to target just put /use 13 /use 14 into macro with avatar n racial
amber siren
@sick sentinel Sporepod is v bad
fossil sparrow
"much higher" if less than 10% is that then sure
cinder bridge
would you use 340 rezans gleaming eye over 340 socketed ritual bandages?
fossil sparrow
rezans probably, bandages look like they're awful
ivory walrus
Is the tuning patch tomorrow?
brazen void
I guess? I mean, it's the raid release as well
austere oar
I'd say a week after raid release
or did they talk about a tuning happening that I missed ?
brazen void
Nothing that I'd know, but i'm usually bad at reading sun-wed news
spice musk
they said a week after Raid release.
brazen void
Next week it is then
muted crane
Tuning is always after raid release, maybe even weeks after.
uneven mason
There will be a tuning pass tomorrow (pretty sure) and then a sizeable one on the 11th
Outside of outliers, I seriously doubt there will be major tuning once Mythic opens
digital arrow
vale gorge
stoic kite
when you see item upgrade from a blue WQ item and its a prismatic socket 😦
chilly brook
Hmmmmm
So 5.5k DPS single target
In prot
Don't even know if that's decent
@muted crane @uneven mason they already said tuning is going to occur next reset when mythic opens
junior ivy
quyestion
im confused
about things
lets say i unlock a new shoulder power
does that mean ive unlocked it on my fury and prot shoulders
cause i use 2 different ones
or do i gotta pick one shoulder piece to upgrade?
chilly brook
wut
sick sentinel
You can only have one power active at a time, per piece, per ring
junior ivy
but like
pulsar drift
yea 5k as prot is what i do lol
junior ivy
see im still confused
chilly brook
Each azerite piece has a level it requires to unlock it says what it is
junior ivy
i have 2 different shoulder azerite pieces. one for fury one for prot
if i unlock a inner trait for fury
chilly brook
@pulsar drift what ilvl are you??
junior ivy
do i unlock it for prot too
chilly brook
no
muted crane
You unlock it by AP lvl you got.
chilly brook
It literally depends on the piece
sick sentinel
If both pieces require the same AP level
sick sentinel
Ok. So on the tool tip for the item
muted crane
It doesnt matter what ilvl items are
sick sentinel
^^^^^
muted crane
Its the level of your neck AP
sick sentinel
That’s what we are talking about
junior ivy
i unlocked an inner trait on prot now im goin furyh
its letting me do one on fury too
thats all i was curious about
sick sentinel
I see @chilly brook is a man of culture, as well. Hiding his shoulders for Saurfang
junior ivy
im neck level 19 now is that average
pulsar drift
@chilly brook ilvl 340 as prot
chilly brook
I mean the answer to your question is just because you unlock an inner trait doesn't mean you unlock it on other gear it's all down to tooltip
junior ivy
but if botrh are the same ilvl..
chilly brook
doesn't matter
muted crane
Forget about the item level
muted crane
If your prot shoulders unlock traits at 15, 17 and 21
junior ivy
ok 😦
muted crane
And your fury shoulders do that as well
junior ivy
i thought itd be all standardized
muted crane
You will "put" traits im both
chilly brook
lul blizz standardize
muted crane
If your AP lvl is high enough
chilly brook
The same company that said ilvl/mainstat over all and then you have arms where secondary stats are way more important
sick sentinel
I’m hoping the next tier of gear has way more secondaries. It’s brutal
Or reduce the pool- like clip vers or mastery. In the post squish world, having both seems redundant
pulsar drift
so what that mean when a ilvl 350 azerite drops it will be a stat stick lol cuz u cant use the azertite on it
chilly brook
It means depending on traits available might not be an upgrade
what in the world?
@sick sentinel you sure I'm a man of culture? :kappa
chilly brook
Panda race best race
stoic kite
i agree
scarlet osprey
@junior ivy sometimes you can get a purple warforge from wq's. That's all i can think of right now.
junior ivy
true i forgot about wq rewards
scarlet osprey
You can also find a good leveling guide on wow-professions.com
junior ivy
im dreading leveling engineering
i know it's gonna suck
so far ive done fishing, cooking and archeology
cloud bone
god I wish the 355 azerite piece from CoA had deafening crash on it
fossil sparrow
tfw it sucks for..every warrior spec 
cloud bone
but ilvl is king right 😛
fossil sparrow
to get into groups, worth jackshit otherwiose
cloud bone
I can't use the 355 helmet on prot cus i'll lose deafening crash otherwise i'd be using 3 right now
fossil sparrow
hell, I use a 340 azerite piece JUST for ilvl for lfgs
vagrant cape
My shield luck has been siphoned off into my trinket luck it seems. I have a 350 briny barnacle, 350 venom spray thing, and a 350 of the thing from WQ today that summons a Dino ally. And a blockades. No idea which two to use so I'm just trying em all out.
sick sentinel
LUL just had 3 anchor weeds on 1 minimap o.O
frosty wedge
I've still yet to get a single 350/355 titanforge in a mythic
I've done... like 18 total on my warrior and 5 on my guardian
lol
sick sentinel
30 here. No 355 TF
frosty wedge
yet I have a friend who has done one week of mythics and has 7 355 pieces
steel mauve
i got a 355 tf ring from one, thats about it, another WF
frosty wedge
check all the 340s:
orchid sand
Got a titanfoged wrist Ilv 355 from last boss Atal' Dazar on heroic mode.
frosty wedge
yeah, I've seen lots of TF in heroics - on my druid yesterday in a heroic I saw three 355 TF pieces - and I got 325 azerite gear
lol
orchid sand
the horn of valor from HOV titanforged 55 item levels for me once
lol
didnt use it though
Oh that reeminds
i went and soloed withered jim otherr day and got my Archano Crystal
better late then never!
fiery pendant
think thats as far as ill get this week
orchid sand
haha GJ!
strong forum
das a lotta 355
austere oar
what an ugly looking gear
ember arrow
wish i had that many 355
mystic ferry
Y’all think there’s any chance for some prot buffs in the next week?
ember arrow
what buffs u think prot needs?
austere oar
IP off the gcd
open bluff
More likely to see a UF nerf than any real buffs
austere oar
^
ember arrow
IP off gcd would be a massive QOL change
open bluff
I'd remind you that Blizz doesn't make significant gameplay changes mid-expac, but 7.1.5 and 7.2.5 happened
sick sentinel
UF nerf?
sick sentinel
Prot doesnt need buffs.
austere oar
would expect a nerf too on UF
sick sentinel
Yeah why nerf it?
sick sentinel
Yeah, UF nerf I would expect though too.
It's always your top DPS ability by large margin if you play right. Single or aoe.
ember arrow
ah so theyll remove the thing prot warr has a niche for
no reason to bring to m+ at all then
sick sentinel
Even overshadowing shield slam.
austere oar
I waste so many procs personally
revenge & SS
just bc TC is way too strong and needed in an AoE situation
static pilot
Same, skipping SS procs during avatar still trips me up
Interesting, preach just posted a Prot warrior video
open bluff
I honestly expect a 25-50% UF nerf
austere oar
50% dmg 50% CD R
polar condor
Anyone have good stat weights for Prot war?
sick sentinel
onyx radish
I just wish they'd raise the damn IP cap
austere oar
do you guys think M+ will have a fixed pattern, especially on dg that have different path each week
?*
sick sentinel
IP cap is fine. Just get better gear.
Doesnt need to be OP high beginning of expansion.
onyx radish
Full rage, max IP, revenge proc, ss up. Could raise the cap a little bit...
sick sentinel
Mindset: Survivability or DPS. You dont have to chase every procc.
Nothing stopping you from delaying if need be.
brazen void
doubt it, sickness
i mean, we had a couple of those in legion already and they were still random
and I saw no mention to change that
onyx radish
Just feels bad. For a class with no self healing utd be nice to not waste rage like that.
chilly brook
I see I missed the character flexing?
Bask in the glory of a panda
@sick sentinel tbh 1.3x is a little low for a cap it’s not like the default absorb amount is anything crazy to begin with
austere oar
problem being we will be "should I press IP or am I wasting a GCD ?"
chilly brook
@static pilot that moment when preach rips your heart from your chest by running Devastator
If they nerf UF prot will need it’s other abilities buffed quite a bit tbh
chilly brook
Why?
Because if it gets nerfed there goes all your damage which means there goes your threat lol
austere oar
dont know about you guys but rn im gearing my warr which is 338 ilvl and when pulling, I have to underuse my defensives in favor to my AoE dps to keep the aggreo
so a UF nerf would be huge for me
chilly brook
You are aware other tanks are simming at 7k single target yeah?
Meanwhile 348 I’m doing 5.5k single target
sick sentinel
Disagree. Because it'll still do plenty of damage and threat with avatar, after whatever UF nerf they do.
It's not like tclap the only ability I spam anyway.
chilly brook
A nerf to UF is an overall DPS and therefore threat loss if they don’t touch anything else
It’s not hard to understand
sick sentinel
I do 7800 at 345 ilvl st.
austere oar
sim or real dps ?
sick sentinel
Real skada.
chilly brook
You’ve sat at a raiding dummy for 5 minutes and held 7800?
sick sentinel
Nah, just from what I've seen on single boss fights mythics.
chilly brook
I’m not either but if they nerf UF other stuff is going to have to be buffed to compensate
Saying that it won’t need to be is obtuse
sick sentinel
UF should get a nerf. But doesnt mean the class otherwise needs buffs.
chilly brook
Why should it get a nerf lol
That’s like arguing all of last xpac that DH should have been nerfed because it could beat DPS on trash in m+
Clearly Blizz disagreed
sick sentinel
I dont feel the pressure or concern you're feeling. Sorry.
chilly brook
I’m not saying the class needs buffs right now
copper basin
Nor do i
chilly brook
What I did say is that if UF gets a nerf then other things will need a buff to compensate
Although I don’t see an issue with UF at all
copper basin
Why do we need a buff to compensate for a spell that is already overturned?
sick sentinel
It doesnt need compensation.
chilly brook
How is it overtuned?
sick sentinel
Same as doesnt need buffs.
chilly brook
Considering Tclap is a majority of your threat and damage in single target yes you would need them if UF were to be nerfed
sick sentinel
UF is outright op. You'd never consider anything else in that talent tier. It overshadows all other abilities by large margin ST and AOE.
copper basin
Because a tank doing more damage than DPS is abhorrent. Why do we need this? TF already does a fine job of holding threat
sick sentinel
Doesnt need class buffs following it lol
copper basin
It also stagnates the entire talent line
chilly brook
You guys are new to warrior aren’t you?
cinder bridge
^
copper basin
Aye mate, 13 years new. I guess everyone's new that doesn't agree with your rehtoric
sick sentinel
Long as it's just UF.
honest acorn
Has prot warrior been officially gutted in bfa?
cinder bridge
yes don't play it
chilly brook
In a raid environment you nerf the one ability that composes 30+% of your damage in single target and then expect you to hold threat against other tanks which are already doing more ST damage than us?
cinder bridge
/s
chilly brook
That’s a joke
Just because avatar tclap is impressive in aoe doesn’t mean it’s broken
@copper basin again pretty much every tank in legion wants a word
Since you know I out dps’d a lot of dps in aoe as BrM
Not to mention did you ever see a DH in legion?
copper basin
If it turns one spell into an ion cannon - yes it does. It stagnantes the entire talent row because it's a no brainer choice. It's a problem talent.
cinder bridge
they still pull impressive numbers in bfa
chilly brook
Everything else in that tier as ass to begin with
Don’t blame bad talents on the good one
somber summit
By that logic, Bolster is also a problem talent.
copper basin
It is a problem talent, it makes an already strong spell stronger and becomes a no thought talent
chilly brook
Might as well throw Booming Voice out of the spec
cinder bridge
yeah there's like one on almost all rows that significantly outperforms the other choices but the problem is mostly that they are very bad
chilly brook
And while we’re at it throw Ignore Pain into the gutter
Oh and we don’t need shields either
Get rid of those
copper basin
This strawman is real
chilly brook
No the obtuseness is real
One good talent and two EXTREMELY subpar talents=/=that good talent is overtuned
somber summit
To say UF will destroy Prot is nonsense, but the point that the other talents are, at least currently, lackluster is spot on.
cinder bridge
but I can easily see UF getting nerfed by like 25-35%
copper basin
It should be, damage needs to be shifted from that talent to the base of spells.
chilly brook
@somber summit no but to say that an UF nerf would most likely cripple our ability to raid tank without a buff to our other abilities or asking out other tank to handicap themselves isn’t untrue
sick sentinel
Problem rest being bad, and that those superior choices all synergize too.
somber summit
Best Served doesn't provide extra rage, and the rage gen/damage from Roar just can't mathematically match UF.
chilly brook
As it is BrM is seemingly capable of 1.5k dps more than warrior in ST
At least if I were to look at myself and my GM
cinder bridge
the cookie cutter talents in prot just synergize way too much with each other
sick sentinel
Monk is also overbuffed by Blizz cus no one plays it as well. All 3 of its specs are super strong.
copper basin
BrM is an unattractive spec to most people.
sick sentinel
Blizz has always buffed classes or nerfed based on how many x play y class for most part.
copper basin
If you call one raid healthy sure.
chilly brook
One raid 😂
copper basin
It was used in ToS to cheese
chilly brook
Uhhhh
sick sentinel
Based by population % and % in raids.
chilly brook
It was used pretty prevalently in Antorus
copper basin
One raid.
chilly brook
BrM was in a pretty good spot practically all of legion
copper basin
Yes mat
No one is saying it's shit
People don't like the spec is what we are sayig
sick sentinel
^
cinder bridge
there is merit to the idea that the way BrM plays is off-putting to people
no doubt
sick sentinel
It's not popular in design to most.
copper basin
So the % of people playing it is low so they buff it thinking it's poor
sick sentinel
Compared to other classes
somber summit
BrM is nuanced. Generally it's fun to play but it hurts when burst damage hits.
copper basin
BrM is a beast. Just not a popular tank.
cinder bridge
I for example mained monk last expansion but don't like how they play at all so playing warrior now
and enjoying that much more
sick sentinel
I've always and majority mained warrior only past 14+ years. 😛
chilly brook
More BrMs then warrior tanks according to that 🤔
sick sentinel
Just enjoy how it plays and it works for me.
somber summit
Probably due to stigma from beta and pre-patch. Or it's horribly off due to not counting active vs inactive.
copper basin
Who said warrior was more popular than anything? No one suggested this. I'd say 1.9% is still rather low.
copper basin
I'd say warrior is purely down to stigma from videos from method etc going on about how poor they are.
chilly brook
By the current logic train
In fact shouldn’t they have been buffed out the ass after they became one of the least played tanks in legion?
copper basin
I don't feel weak as a prot, bit I'm not sure if that echos what's actually happening in the community
chilly brook
I don’t feel weak at all
sick sentinel
Yeah basically. Thanks Sco
chilly brook
I also don’t feel broken in terms of damage
You get 45 seconds of high aoe
Then it normalizes
copper basin
I don't think we need a buffet, but if they nerf UF then possibly need to shift some of that damage to TC etc
chilly brook
That’s literally all I said and everyone went full autism
That if UF gets nerfed other things need to be buffed
chilly brook
Which it really isn’t
copper basin
I wouldn't call what people were saying as autism because it was a counter argument
But I guess that's just our personalities showing.
chilly brook
I mean when people sit here and say that UF needs to be nerfed and that nothing else should get compensated after a UF nerf that’s pretty autistic
chilly brook
No because the numbers say so
chilly brook
Look it’s simple
copper basin
((the numbers))
chilly brook
Take your top ability as a tank
Nerf it by x amount
You’ve now lost 4x of whatever the number x represents in terms of threat
sick sentinel
No one said it should be nerfed, btw. It just feels like an inevitability considering Blizz's track record.
chilly brook
If you don’t shuffle some of that to our more single target abilities you’re going to run into threat issues with other tanks
The only thing our damage is “insane” in is aoe
sick sentinel
Thus, discussing around accommodating to that potential change.
You know. Discussion.
chilly brook
I mean you thought a 7800dps meter reading after downing a boss in a Mythic 0 was equivalent to a 5 minute sim
undone sun
@vocal nimbus 
sick sentinel
😬
vagrant cape
I think that if any talent is a no-brainer, 100% pick rate talent, it's a problem. Talents are supposed to be malleable and adjusted to fit the needs of specific scenarios.
chilly brook
Odd that you say no one said it “should” get a nerf
vagrant cape
So yeah, prot has a lot of problem talents
chilly brook
sick sentinel
Right.
chilly brook
We’ve had 100% pickrate talents since vanilla come on now
vagrant cape
That doesn't mean they're not a problem
onyx radish
"no one said it should get a Nerf"
onyx radish
He also said that
chilly brook
Define problem
Because it’s not impeding my ability to play or play well
And I couldn’t give a care in the world which talent is best because regardless of what I have to do I’m going to use the best talent whether it’s a 1% gain or a 100% gain
As will most people
vocal nimbus
@undone sun ❔
vagrant cape
Really blizzard is the only entity who has an opinion that matters when it comes to balance. I believe they did say during Legion that they don't want tanks beating dps at their own game. So it would make sense that they'd lower our dps in a way that puts us in line with the dps of other tanks (for aoe and single target).
If that means that we strictly get a dps nerf, I'd really hope that we'd be buffed in other areas to compensate (since the tanks are allegedly balanced quite well right now).
sick sentinel
Hum.
chilly brook
I mean we don’t beat DPS at their own game IF the DPS is actually good and has the proper gear
undone sun
@vocal nimbus you pinged me asked if I was sleeping
chilly brook
Sure I can burst to 40k on a big pull but arms can burst and sustain higher than us for example
It’s rare that I finish a pull on the top of the damage unless it’s just undergeared or inexperienced players
vagrant cape
Well then according to blizzard, they have no reason to lower our dps with no compensation.
chilly brook
TBH I just wish they’d make Devastator baseline
Or better yet just make BV baseline
Would be a nice compensation for demo being on the gcd
austere oar
well i'd say a dps nerf would be compensated by a threat buff
chilly brook
Our DPS is our threat unless they just want to throw the BFA threat changes out the window
vagrant cape
I still believe that auto-pick talents shouldn't exist. I wish the other talents in the auto-pick rows were powered up.
Better yet, I wish we had synergistic talents/traits for other abilities. So we could spec into the "thunderclap+avatar+demo shout" build or the (hypothetical) "spell reflect+ignore pain+charge" build or the (hypothetical) "shield slam + revenge + crit block" build.
chilly brook
1 dps=1 threat for dps; 1 dps=~4 threat for a tank
vagrant cape
Isn't 1dps=0.5 threat for a dps?
Edit: you're right.
"As a baseline, Tanks will generate 4 times more Threat than DPS." - wowhead
chilly brook
I’d love a Blackout Combo type talent for prot
Not to my knowledge
Whatever it is our dps as a tank generates 4x as much as a dps’ dps would
But that also means being able to keep your tanks relatively close in single target in terms of damage is fairly important
half carbon
are people going devestator or booming voice this tier?
static pilot
@chilly brook
Yeah, running devestator instead of BV surprised me too. I guess the rotation feels a bit nicer since there will be gaps when you dont have anything to press so you might as well IP, but emphasizing the Avatar thunderstomp build and ignoring BV is really odd
vagrant cape
Taunt multiplies threat by 5x and high threat abilities (heroic throw) generate 4x more Threat. So heroic throw on a taunted enemy generates 20x the threat you normally would, which is 80x more than if a dps did the same amount with an attack.
chilly brook
Right but if all you’re doing is heroic throw you’re gonna be out threated really quick
vagrant cape
I was wrong again. "
Abilities like Heroic Throw and Throw Glaive deal bonus threat due to their low base damage. If a Tank deals 100 damage using Throw Glaive to a mob, the tank will get 1,600 Threat for a total of 16 times the base damage."
half carbon
ye, tought so
chilly brook
My worry with a UF nerf isn’t our threat in regards to DPS in the group
It’s our threat in regards to other tanks
Since tclap makes up a significant amount of your damage in st
tawny panther
Iron Fortress is basically equal to brace for impact, just a slight favouring aoe vs ST right?
vagrant cape
Just use taunt in groups. Not that big of a deal
tawny panther
thinking DC then 2 IF for mythic+, 2 brace for raiding
chilly brook
It’s not that simple
I’ve raided with weaker tanks before and I basically had to sit there hands off the keyboard or risk an inopportune threat rip
vagrant cape
That's only happened to me in lfr
ember arrow
thats what i did
i had bear cotank on HC
i jsut wiped us till he got good and did dmg
im not gonna hold back for someone who cant play
HC=High command
vagrant cape
That's not necessarily the best progression attitude...
ember arrow
i jsut said in discord"oh mark lsotaggro again"
whoopsie
i dont expect DDs to do half work on a boss
so i wont from my cotank
tawny panther
anyone? brace vs iron fortress?
vagrant cape
I would never intentionally wipe a raid because I wasn't willing to ease off the gas pedal for a bit.
chilly brook
I mean I don’t think the guild would appreciate it that much
chilly brook
TBH most wouldn’t deem that his fault
vagrant cape
@tawny panther they are close, yes. I prefer brace all around because we already do really well at aoe dps, so we don't really need much more.
tawny panther
yeah i guess thats true
just not sure on the dps difference with shield block guarenteeing the reflect
chilly brook
Either way my concern is that prot wouldn’t be able to hang in st if a UF nerf went through without compensation and without cheesing taunt every CD
vagrant cape
We're in a philosophical debate now. This is the trolley problem. If you let the trolley go as is, you wipe the raid. If you pull the lever you save the raid.
If the raid wipes, is it your fault for doing nothing?
vagrant cape
Or, by having the potential to save it at all, do you shoulder the blame?
chilly brook
It’s on both parties
chilly brook
One should play their class better the other knowing that the other wasn’t as competent shouldn’t have chosen a time that would wipe 19 other people to fix that problem
chilly brook
I mean don’t get me wrong I partially made our prior GM rage quit because I was vocal on his extremely bad bear DPS when I pulled up his analyzer and saw how much shit he was doing wrong
vagrant cape
From a Kantian perspective, we must use logic and ask, if we apply the rule; 'every tank that out-dpses the co-tank will go ham until they lose threat and the raid wipes.' is the rule sustainable or will it end itself?
I don't know the answer, personally.
From a Hobbesian perspective, it depends on what you desire, levko. If your goal was to finish the raid, you were acting against that. If your desire was to improve your co-tank in the long run, you did well.
Ethics is so fun.
edgy solstice
Well then it depends how early in the raid cycle you are
Whether you're improving Co tanking in the first raid to gain the benefit of it through the expac
Or if you're in a mid raid or the last raid
vagrant cape
Yeah, there's no right or wrong answer here. It depends on the situation and ethical philosophy you want to apply.
edgy solstice
Aye
vagrant cape
#RelevantProtWarriorDiscussion
austere oar
Well during my Pug i saw ppl running taunt in their rotation
kinda worse than average dps tank :^)
mossy depot
Anyone using the engineering helm instead of the ones in the guide? Think relational gizmo is solid for tanking?
swift basin
hey friends, can you guys help me out? 325 Vial of Animated Blood or 345 Ravasaur Skull Bijou
sick sentinel
At first I thought I was bad, then I saw this
austere oar
it's like "let's take the worst out of the talents and try it in a build"
sick sentinel
2,5k dps on bosses, 5k tops on AoE
junior ivy
RAID IS T OMORROW. i'm scared.
austere oar
not for us EU plebs :/
sick sentinel
US has to have advantage to have small chance in raid race vs EU Kappa
chilly brook
I mean it's not like EU hasn't had so many legs up over NA these last two weeks
Still haven't gotten a weapon emissary on NA horde lol
frosty wedge
annoyed - did my first mythic on my guardian and got a 350 piece.
vagrant cape
Shouldn't the "Graves repercusiones" be repercusiones graves ?
Since adjectives follow the noun in Spanish, I thought
balmy narwhal
with raid coming up, are you guys gonna be using strength or stam flask?
sick sentinel
Strength always.
vagrant cape
Strength
vagrant cape
I'd only take a Stam flask if there was some cheese where you had to take a gigantic magical hit for some reason and you desperately needed all the Stam you could get
Yeah, vanguard and more damage is always nice for keeping up with the co-tank threat-wise and killing faster
sick sentinel
Vanguard, buffs damage, buffs IP
tiny sphinx
last time i used a stam flask was... uh... gruul's lair, or maybe brutallus
vagrant cape
Oh yeah, IP too
sick sentinel
Stam just makes you fatter sponge. Nothing else.
Use strength bountiful captain feast too.
sethraliss is a real shitshow with pick ups
never again
vagrant cape
Is that the one where you need to swap to fury/arms to get the str buff?
vagrant cape
Sethraliss is a real joy when you have no heals and a disc priest...
vocal nimbus
someone said something about spanish?
ember arrow
pinata
tiny sphinx
did they fix or even address the issue that you can lose an orb in sethraliss and be unable to finish?
vagrant cape
Yeah, the screen cap a bit above, the talent on the bottom row. Shouldn't those words be in the opposite order?
Shouldn't it read "Repercusiones Graves"?
sick sentinel
It's more about the elemental boss
vocal nimbus
Graves repercusiones
sick sentinel
with nobody knowing the fuck they are doing
vagrant cape
Nifty
vocal nimbus
although grave isnt exactly heavy
vagrant cape
I always thought the adjectives follows the noun
vocal nimbus
but its a correct translation
vagrant cape
TIL
vagrant cape
Five melee specs can heal, right? Did you have any of those?
frosty wedge
trying to gear my gaurdian as well and my god mythics with pugs are horrendous
frosty wedge
second pull going right in atal'dazar and the healer walks up and moonfires the pack that you don't even have to pull on the right
ignoring the fact that I was just waiting for that pat
austere oar
well yeah in BfA pugging is horrible
sick sentinel
Nice
austere oar
ppl dont even know what a kick is i feel
sick sentinel
Pugs dont wait.
Yeah they dont.
Pugging heroic shrine, no one but me trying to interrupt unending darkness
Or consume essence
sick sentinel
Or the trash pack heals something rapids
austere oar
that's the only thing why I like my tank DH
dispell
ppl dont know it too
like the mob will have 5 stacks of a buff granted by his allies, dmg +50%, haste +50%, no one will have the idea to dispell
(when playing with classes that are able to do it)
sick sentinel
Mhm.
minor pecan
So which 340 trink is better for prot? Merektha's Fang or Razdunk's Big Red Button
minor pecan
cool thxs
I've been playing with Button but just got Merektha's Fang and was wondering
vocal nimbus
^ this or pair it with a stun
dark junco
wondering if I should go with a 355 boe haste + a 355 boe mastery ring, or only the 355 haste boe with a haste mastery ring
No clue how much I should blow on the mastery boe
Really wish we'd have stats weight or such lol
is there any way to math the number of tclap we could do per Avatar with haste and gcd tiers or alike ?
Like ''if you have 30% haste, you can do 6 tclap, but with like 47% you can do 7'' or what ever ? Is that something thats possible ?
kindred flint
which ring is better for tanking? https://www.wowhead.com/item=158314/seal-of-questionable-loyalties&bonus=4777:1482#guides or https://www.wowhead.com/item=159460/overseers-lost-seal&bonus=4777:1482
grim prism
Haste one unless there is a big ilvl disparity
chrome harbor
are aberrations still unblockable?
grim prism
Secondaries are a lot more balanced from previous expacs, raw stat budget is impprtant
kindred flint
ok thanks
dark junco
But on ring its only stam
grim prism
Stam isnt a secondary soooooo
leaden blaze
Secondaries are close enough in value for tanking that the total stat budget is still major factor.