My dh alt feels like wet tissue compared to prot
#protection
raven kernel
sick sentinel
ive also prot life since vanilla so w/e what I say.
lilac onyx
mitigation is really strong i just have no way to self sustain once i take damage.. no self healing no pick up compared to bears, dk, and monks
raven kernel
Don't need self heal
sick sentinel
with a proactive emphasis and skill cap to know how to play that tank role.
static pilot
Yup, losing manacles and inspiring presence from legion was definitely a blow
sick sentinel
knowing how to use and cycle your CDs in a proactive manner while blowing up DPS.
raven kernel
Other tanks take more dmg and healing is their way to offset that
sick sentinel
mhm
lilac onyx
so thats just our niche right now.
sick sentinel
thats our kit design.
static pilot
Pretty much :-/
lilac onyx
oof, yeah cuz i know how to mitigate and survive through hefty pulls. i just been heariing from the heals that prots just been needing more healing than other tanks atm
static pilot
There's hope that we'll get some minor buffs with the raid balance patch but I don't think the gameplay will radically change, at least not anytime soon
hazy yacht
"SB duration changed to 5 seconds"
lilac onyx
i hope the gameplay doesnt change, i enjoy the way prot works. i just want to be the best i can be.
static pilot
Out of curiosity, what's the i level of your shield and your toon in general?
static pilot
Reducing the CD on shield bløck slightly would go a long way to tighten up those holes. Might even make HR a little sexier
Ah
raven kernel
When you get a 340 shield you'll see the difference
hazy yacht
buy an oswains
static pilot
Well, warrior gets better with a better i level shield. Or so I've been told. I've had the same luck with shields that you have
hazy yacht
most justified BoE i've ever bought
lilac onyx
ah so my shield is a big drop for me?
hazy yacht
if the boots drop for me then yay, but i'm not chasing that set bonus
raven kernel
The difference was visible to my entire party
Even the dps noticed how much tankier I became
raven kernel
Shield is the most important thing to warriors and I think pallies too
hazy yacht
- the stats
raven kernel
More important than weapon, azerite or Trinkets
lilac onyx
oof, yeah ive been running mythics.. havent had a good drop yet for shields.
static pilot
Join the club, we have jackets
lilac onyx
hahha, i got really lucky with a good 340 2h today. but no shield.
static pilot
I'm still not sure the shield from atol actually exists
lucid ginkgo
Damn, glad i took mine off. 😏
hazy yacht
i caved and bought oswains and keleda's. got tired of sitting on my 310s
static pilot
I just can't justify dropping half a mil on the hope that a class will play better :-/
hazy yacht
i got lucky on the prices, total of 350k for both
static pilot
Wow, that's a great deal
sick sentinel
boots arent worth it.
hazy yacht
not the boots, keleda's axe
sick sentinel
nor the set, if you're patient/eventual get your hast/mast or haste/vers 340 boots.
ahhh
n/m!
hazy yacht
yeah, i'm not chasing the boots. for 3% more block
sick sentinel
even though axe has crit I believe
hazy yacht
yep, still miles ahead of a 310
lilac onyx
if i see a big improvement with a new shield i could see prot being a big competitor in raids
hazy yacht
we'll be gods in raids
always are
we get what, 31 seconds straight of 100% block right now?
lilac onyx
id love to see anger managment baseline and a solid new 100 talent take form
weary notch
HR isn't bad, AM is just way better
and I don't think we have a third option on that row
static pilot
Honestly? Id love to see HR be a viable alternative to AM. Let AM be the high ceiling low floor talent build
And let HR be the safer more stable alternative with less emphasis on CD spam and more emphasis on high block uptime and passive mitigation
lilac onyx
lol why is Ravager still a thing
weary notch
what?
weary notch
never heard of it
hazy yacht
lol
static pilot
^^
lilac onyx
lol im not surprised
its so bad, ive only ever seen it used once in pvp
and he lost
weary notch
the only way they could get me to take 
is if they increased the radius 8000%
lilac onyx
lol its a cool spell just make it baseline
just throw it in as a little niche to have or scrap it entirely
weary notch
our talents are just full of junk. IV, Crackling Thunder, BSC, Indom, NS, Dev, Rav
like half the choices
lilac onyx
indominable has potential to be fun if they did more with it than just a flat 10% health increase
weary notch
add the IP buff back to indom and delete NS for something else, maybe. I dunno
so bolster is the physical dmg choice and indom is for magic
lilac onyx
prot warriors are now the only tank to have magic damage mitigation right?
weary notch
no
weary notch
DK and pally and Monk
hazy yacht
DKs with anti magic shit
lilac onyx
oof, nvm
static pilot
DH have passive magic mit (10%) and firebrand(?) on a 1 min cd
sick sentinel
lol
plain vapor
i assume the button is worse than the 330 ticking clock aye? https://i.imgur.com/gQ9APlJ.png
feel like it is worse
weary notch
did they fix the clock?
plain vapor
not sure but i got both buffs from it at once earlier today
sick sentinel
big red button is a pvp burst button.
dont use for pve.
I was using 340 clock until I got rezan's eye w/ socket 340.
w/ blockades.
big red button good for arms. scales w/ versatility, Avatar, and csmash/warbreaker.
timid nacelle
Hey all, gilded Loa 340 or vial 340?
strong parcel
how to do merektha efficiently
static pilot
The snake boss? What part is giving you trouble?
sick sentinel
@sick sentinel even if I have button on 355 and clock on 330? I feel like this button is no dmg at all tbh but str difference is big
oh wow EU servers still down
static pilot
Patch notes are up
sick sentinel
nvm prolly wow didnt update for me
static pilot
They nerfed the kings rest berserkers
weary notch
they buffed the health on the last boss in siege? What?
sick sentinel
yea interesting
static pilot
I've only ever fired 3, dunno if he keeps going around the circle after that
sick sentinel
or maybe there was some tactic to not use cannons, and they increased his hp and cannon dmg?
static pilot
Could be fool-proofing. Maybe people were just focus firing boss instead of doing the cannon mechanic
abstract adder
No shield again this week. Rip
strong parcel
@static pilot were just getting overwhelmed with the puddles and all the other mechanics at the same time
static pilot
Puddles... The dust clouds?
strong parcel
yeah
static pilot
I can't say I've had too many problems with it. I typically use hc leap to get some initial aggro, tc, then tank them while moving so they don't get to hang out in the dust clouds that grant miss chance
Continually back pedaling works fine
static pilot
No worries and good luck :)
strong parcel
@static pilot also, how many stacks should we be taking the energy for galvazzt
static pilot
There isn't really a hard number, whatever your healer is comfortable with. They fall off pretty fast so Id just let the DPS handle it
I think you can safely go to about 10 stacks
thick bear
With the change to block i am having a hard time understanding how traits like Iron Fortress work
brave oar
Maybe this has been covered already but I have a hard time deciding what's better, brace for impact, deafening crash or iron fortress.
Which of them stack? which does not?
fierce halo
1x DC and 2x BfI is best
undone sun
all traits stack
sand saffron
Random question, anyone know if iron fortress' damage has an icd?
undone sun
just it's almost never the entire trait that stacks
chilly brook
@regal island was that you in that Temple?
random finch
What do you guys would be better a 340 mastery trinket or 325 Str trinket with haste pric
random finch
The mastery trinket has a str active
ashen flower
Hey guys, im new to the warrior. My guild lost maintank due to health issues so they asked me to do tanking this expansions as i am "reliable"(god help them with me as a tank). I see bad speach about prot war wherever i look. Is prot war rly THAT bad? Or can we still do the job we supposed to as MT? Thx
raven kernel
Prot is low floor high ceiling
If you are bad it'll be really bad
If you're good it'll be good
Go tank mythic dungeons and see how it feels
spare beacon
It actually feels pretty good, tbh. Especially if you have a competent healer.
ashen flower
Well i was MT vanilla as prot war. That was my last tine playing war
Then i pvped till legion as DK, RET and DH. 6x glad
spare beacon
I pull anywhere from 6-12 mobs depending on how dense it is at a time and I've not had a problem.
ashen flower
Legion i returned as PVE Hero on DK
So im playing for 13 years
So i guess i can learn thr class fast
spare beacon
basically your goal is to have 100% uptime on demoralizing shout
ashen flower
Oh ok...thought that DS is just oh shit filler when u have 2 many mobs on u
spare beacon
no
I use it almost immediately to gen rage, then thunderclap to extend. Avatar is off cd almost all the time if you've got a large mob on you and you can cycle through your Ignore Pains and Shield Blocks
So I avatar and dem shout every pull
spare beacon
If you get super unlucky it's still like 90% uptime
ashen flower
Ok. Thx for a tipp
raven kernel
Along with shield block bolster and ip
ashen flower
With 322 ilvl u think mythic is a problem to tank?
raven kernel
We almost always have 2-3 layers of mitigation up
undone sun
depends if you pug it or have a premade group going into it
spare beacon
Not with a premade
ashen flower
Well my guild all are 340+ im on holidays atm, coming back tomorow and gona spam instances
spare beacon
if they're gonna que with you you shouldnt have a problem
ashen flower
So il have full 340+ grp
spare beacon
get some plate-wearers in there to share.
raven kernel
Also use avatar liberally
spare beacon
^
raven kernel
With anger management the cd is like 1min
spare beacon
It increases uptime on demo shout through lowering clap CD
ashen flower
Oh ok
fathom marten
Hey guys quick question. What size raid are you guys going to be running for ultir?
ashen flower
So whats ya opener. Like charge, clap, demo shout and circle sunder, shield slam, and revange on free proc?
spare beacon
er no
raven kernel
30 heroic 20 mythic
ember arrow
@ashen flower avatar. Charge. DS. TC. SS
fathom marten
Regular my man
ember arrow
U charge first? 🤔
fathom marten
Thought you avatar first for packs
spare beacon
1S more uptime on avatar
ashen flower
Oh ok. Circle shield bloco and pain on Cd?
ember arrow
No
inland silo
if you charge in without pressing avatar first, theres a pretty good chance a dps is gonna die
raven kernel
Avatar charge tc, then demo and sb in same gcd, tc
Then continue with ss revenge ip as needed in between tc
ember arrow
Use AM when needed
spare beacon
I've never had that issue, @inland silo, but I believe you
midnight moss
What's am?
brittle herald
Active Mitigation
ashen flower
So sheild block and pain just when i start droping?
ember arrow
No
ashen flower
Like 60% hp
ashen flower
Ok
spare beacon
If you think your healer can keep you up without a problem, you can revenge more often
shieldblack before shield slams for more dps, i try to keep mine up all the time
ashen flower
Kinda sux that pain is on GCD with other stuff no?
spare beacon
and IP if you think your healer needs help
If you pull too much use walls last stands shouts things like that.
ashen flower
Kk
spare beacon
But I usually save my commanding shout for group screwups if we have them
That's how I go about it
But I'm super liberal and aggro
as a player
ashen flower
Ok. Thx alot
spare beacon
using IP instead of Revenge is your safest bet
ashen flower
Guess il try to tank few heroics with 322 to get a feeling. Then go mythic
Hc shouldnt be big deal with 322
spare beacon
Shouldn't be. Just dont go too ham
And check your healer's gear before you pull
so you know what you're dealing with
ashen flower
Hehe ok. Thx 4 tips lads
Much appreciated
Gona have 2 find some good WA and elvui for tanking tho
hearty crater
everyone mainly using Stalwart Navigation weapon ench?
midnight moss
Yeah nice shield community here
ashen flower
Any tipps on those?
spare beacon
i dont use WA
hearty crater
yea i'm between using Stalwart Navigation and quick Navigation atm..
spare beacon
Quick will feel better imo
hearty crater
how often does it proc?
spare beacon
but as gear gets better and haste gets higher it wont feel as impactful
uh.
idk tbh. I dont have it atm
Dont feel like enchanting my gear yet
considering i still have a week of mythics
hearty crater
yea i feel you lol
spare beacon
or 2
so
I imagine it procs often enough
Either way I'll go with haste enchants. I've always liked the way haste feels
- lower cd on clap means longer demos even outside of avatar.
iron mantle
inland silo
booming is better
inland silo
you dont really press devastate that often tbh
i at least wouldnt say you spam it very often
silk mortar
As long as its not Single target ^^
inland silo
idk if id say a quick dummy test is conclusive evidence
it might be better
but booming + avatar and keeping the 15% damage buff up is a ton of damage too
humble olive
Deva better for dps? even with azerite trait for demo extension?
rose marsh
Am I allowed to ask for a tank or DPS for Mythic Freehold achievement run here?
Please let me know if I am not allowed to ask for a tank or DPS for a mythic freehold achievement run
ember arrow
Might help to tell faction and region
Also theres an achievement discord for wow pty sure
simple flicker
yo guys what is the better for artifact passive "Secrets of the deep"? or Iron Fortress
ionic ridge
The rule of thumb is simple
1 trait of Deafening crash (doesn't stack)
Iron Fortress is A tier trait
simple flicker
so go iron fortess
ionic ridge
Brace for impact is S tier on paper if you can find the pieces
simple flicker
i have 1 peice with it
bold cosmos
ignore pain, should be called GCD pain from now on 😡
simple flicker
so go iron fortress
ionic ridge
Guys what's your choice between Iron Fortress and Brace for impact ?
indigo bobcat
As far as i Understand it the "enhance warrior abilities" are better than the rng weird abilities
primal rain
Threat plates customization feels confusing. Can someone help
regal island
@chilly brook yup
gray wolf
so one guy just claimed to hit a normal mob without any debuff for 30k with ss
this is without the talents HR and punish
bs or legit?
vocal nimbus
bs
if the damage is real then some buff gotta have been there
maybe he read 3k as 30k 🤷
sterile stump
I’m scrub gear but if I talent for it I can get sis to hit for around the same as mortal strike in arms, I assume as I get better gear the difference will be far more so I’m calling bs
Also does anyone use pawn/sims for stat weights as prot?
next goblet
idk how i feel about islands as a prot war..
ember arrow
What about them
smoky wave
Love them as prot (hc). I pull stuff, the other two loot things then blow up any mobs that are left I havn't AoE'd down.
I'm less useful when we engage the NPC team but we don't tend to struggle
ember arrow
He didnt say they were bad
gray wolf
implications tho
i will however agree
that they have some flaws
in specific scanarios
scenarios
ember arrow
U mean in islands or in general
ember arrow
Islands are so boring
gray wolf
agreed
ember arrow
Its just rush and kill stuff
cosmic cargo
i only did the weekly on both my chars
ember arrow
No EXPEDITION
ember arrow
expedition implies smt more than aoe down trash
cosmic cargo
because of the lack of emotes on this place i have to use your face for everything @grave grove 
cosmic cargo
works too
undone sun
only emote one would ever need
grave grove
ember arrow
Thymes pic isnt even same as the emote
undone sun
Because I upscaled it myself
Vectored it out in adobe illustrator for higher quality, I can't change the emotes here
It's uploaded to my server though ¯_(ツ)_/¯
tiny sphinx
way to be a nerd, double d
undone sun
Yup
smoky wave
I enjoy islands, not enough to do more than required, but it's kinda like a dungeon race. I don't pug them though.
tiny sphinx
protip for islands- avoid overpulling (or pulling at all) too many of the druidy dryad healy tree stuff, don't ask why
copper basin
I pull 7 - 8 packs and run them to the alliance.
They kill the Alliance and Just wittle them down. islands done in a few minutes.
smoky wave
I'd not considered doing that
copper basin
We go with Prot war, Prot pal and a Rdruid
and just pull the whole island ( i'm not joking ) and find the lliance
Just kite the mobs forever with cons slow and thunderclap
Alliance tank has an AoE taunt and just gets 1 shot, casters kill off the mobs because they have moronic PvE damage adn you just rinse and repeat.. Alliance get no points and yo uget full points for them dying.
fair crystal
did they nerf Deafning crash ?
wild hamlet
I really love my warrior
but I'm put off playing it due to fact I can't heal myself in solo content
because I am a loner, I play on my own a lot unless it's group content (raid, M+ etc.)
umbral barn
@copper basin insane ! i will test that 😝
old zephyr
Would that work vs the horde ?
solemn badger
Are there any experienced tanks around that could answer a few questions? Im having some issues in mythics. Boss fights seem relatively easy if the group follows mechanics, but trash puts me in a position where i have to choose between holding aggro or using mitigation and sometimes i melt.
unreal flume
@solemn badger You using Booming Voice?
solemn badger
Yeah, it is irreplaceable for rage generation IMO
unreal flume
Yeah
That and Avatar are your big friends for trash
With Anger Management talent you get to use Avatar very often, and thunderclap every second GCD with avatar up
Which will help get mobs to stick on you, so you don't have to worry about using rage for revenge over IP
solemn badger
Yeah, i need to make better use of avatar probably. The GCD changes are tough on holding aggro while keeping IP/SB up
old zephyr
I run with hunter that do the aggro for me, but avatar +TC on pull is enough
unreal flume
Also, using your cooldowns on trash isn't the worst thing in the world - provided you're using them before you're on 10% hp
old zephyr
Avatar before charge and you're good
solemn badger
Ty for advice. I will try to use avatar more liberally. I usually end up saving it too often
unreal flume
With Anger Management and Bolster you can use Last Stand pretty often
solemn badger
Yeah thats my build right now
old zephyr
Main thing about war is that cds are part of the rotation
unreal flume
Yeah, don't be afraid of popping cds because there's a boss coming up
solemn badger
How do you guys feel the warrior stacks up against other tanks going into Uldir? I really like the playstyle and i feel like it has very good survivability against a single target
cerulean bone
Hello everyone , which one is better azerite traits for dps as a Tank?
amber siren
check pins
unreal flume
@solemn badger Is Protection viable for end-game M+ / raid progression? The differences between each tank is so minor at this point that you will be fine no matter what you’re playing or doing, and said differences only become “important” if you’re doing bleeding edge progression (in which case, you wouldn’t be asking this question in the first place). Protection is very strong defensively, and the best tank for DPS – but it’s not easy. You will need to practice and be using abilities proactively to reduce incoming damage.
I share this sentiment
Because we're proactive, its more important for us to know when we should be using our cds. But we seem okay
copper basin
Also, TC + Revenge is enough for agro without Avatar on pull if yo ucan spare the rage.
ember arrow
SB isnt on gcd
tacit topaz
is it me or are warrior tanks rly bad atm ?
ember arrow
just you
amber siren
just you
static pilot
We get that question about once every 30 minutes so I can say that at the very least you're not the only one who feels that way
The current version of Prot can be made to work but it's clunky and not very intuitive
static pilot
You're extremely reliant on specific azerite traits and can feel very squishy if you don't master the rotation or have a low i level shield
ember arrow
: you feel squishy if you dont master the rotation"
oof
so bsically
if u arent afk
static pilot
As Prot you pop an offensive CD pre-pull to set up a defensive CD that only interacts if you have a specific azerite trait
That's not intuitive
compact sigil
Honestly tho, you get so much azerite armor at 120 doing the current end game content, so I wouldnt worry about those specific azerite traits
static pilot
If you've been hanging out in Skyhold this long but can't see how Avatar and DS interacts then I don't know what to tell you
ember arrow
they dont interact
a talent makes them do that
its not baseline
you use them anyway
nothing is changed
static pilot
Can you point to where I said it was baseline?
static pilot
Yes? I don't think it's intuitive. You either use avatar pre pull and waste uptime or open with charge and get a GCD-gutted opener
static pilot
Moreover, it only works if you are aware of and use a specific trait
That's simplistic, it's both an offensive and defensive cd
compact sigil
I have had no issues so far with pulling via charge or heroic leap into shockwave/DS/thunderclap/revenge, you usually have pretty decent aggro on the group by that point
junior igloo
Avatar gives rage, you can use rage for defensive abilities.
static pilot
^
junior igloo
Ofc, some talents make the defensive benefit much larger than that
static pilot
You don't think avatar has a defensive value?
It's the key element for our defensive rotation on aoe packs
ember arrow
the fact that it generates rage doesntm ake it defensive
static pilot
It's not the rage, it's a CD that massively improves our DS uptime
ember arrow
we dont have seperate rotations
static pilot
The rage is a side benefit
ember arrow
our dps=our defensive rotation
static pilot
Rotation of mitigation abilities, not attacks
Avatar sets up the 20-30 sec DS
Without avatar DS would last 10-12 seconds
cerulean bone
I really need advice about offensives azerite traits for dpsing in Mythic + I dont have any issues tanking im 343 ilvl stuck with 300 blue weapon , thanks in advance for any tips
compact sigil
has anyone gotten the ever elusive mythic shield since reset?
red sun
No
static pilot
Not yet, fingers crossed for tonight
compact sigil
yeah, did Alta last night, no luck
formal pecan
Still rockin a 320 wq shield. There's 3 of us in group that can spec for shield drops and still nothing
compact sigil
@cerulean bone I am not expert in azerite traits by any means, but Brace for Impact and Callous Reprisal are decent dps increases if i had to guess, for trash and single target
static pilot
Do the other two already have 340 shields?
compact sigil
i've seen a resto shaman and a holy pally get one, i have the 2h from kings rest, but those are the only things i've seen drop
static pilot
Otherwise they won't be able to trade so don't get your hopes up too high :-/
formal pecan
Shit, didn't even think of that.
static pilot
It's still worth doing, they can bank the shield so they can trade a future drop
cerulean bone
@static pilot mine is 350 from motherlorde but i have 300 blue weapon
formal pecan
They might do, one spams wq all day.
static pilot
But yeah, low drop rate + untradeable I levels is unpleasant
Okay, good! Fingers crossed for you :)
formal pecan
:D
storm kindle
Got a juicy 345 shield today from tol dagor
static pilot
Grats man, that's awesome! :)
formal pecan
Glad they will be making azurite stuff tradeable. So much has been wasted so far
woeful reef
Im still rocking a 310 from atal that took 13 resets on normal to get. Everuthing else 340 or above. Rng man, lol.
compact sigil
i believe thats in game as of yesterday @formal pecan
amber siren
eu
formal pecan
Oh nice, will be doing some mythics tonight so that'll be handy
static pilot
@Nimec hence my Discord avatar ^^
mossy cloud
Do we know if you can gear up solely through m+ this expansion for prot? Or are some raid tier pieces going to be necessary
static pilot
Someone told me that DC is not available in Uldir
mossy cloud
Nice thank you
static pilot
So... Yeah. Hope you get a piece with that trait in your weekly chest
chrome falcon
Yeah no DC in uldir is fuuuuckiiiing grooooooss
woeful reef
That's going to be some tough RNG to beat to get it in the chest there are a lot of pieces to pull from
formal pecan
What's it worth, 15ilvl?
woeful reef
Im not sure if id replace a 340 with it with a 355 wotgout it. But id need to check the math
unreal flume
Just gotta hope for that sweet m+ luck
ember arrow
yea the one that incrases your sTr i believe
u get max stacks when youre 90 sec in combat
amber siren
DC is worth 25 ilvl
north bloom
So you guys think ip will ever come off gcd
static pilot
I still think that trait is gonna be on the chop block. 150% more DS uptime for a single trait is pretty nuts
Lord I hope so
sick sentinel
No. Doesnt need to be either.
static pilot
Purifying brew is so there is precedent
static pilot
Worked well for the native indians
north bloom
Hahah somebody call the damn ambulamb
static pilot
bows
sick sentinel
🤔
Comparing WoW to indiand.
Feel free to reroll to lazier, easier tank class I guess.
😂 😂 😂
chilly brook
@regal island well then it was a pleasure grouping with ya sir! Sorry the shield didn’t end up dropping 😢
@static pilot purifying brew is off the gcd for the same reason SB is.....granted I think it’s dumb that IP is on the gcd but there’s very good reason for purifying not being on it
static pilot
Disclaimer: my knowledge of monk is pretty basic
But from what I can tell you use iron brew like we use shield block, to negate incoming damage
And purifying how we use IP, to help lower an incoming big hit that's already in the pipeline
Is that about right?
chilly brook
No
vocal nimbus
As brm you keep ISB 100% of the time
upper spoke
any guide to offensive trinkets / offensive trinkets for prot list?
chilly brook
So isb is 100% uptime
vocal nimbus
and purify some times
chilly brook
Increases your effectiveness of stagger
smoky wave
(I like ip on the gcd, means I have to make a choice between hitting and not dying 😕)
bronze helm
Burn the heretic
chilly brook
If you ever get hit hella hard and take stagger that you’re basically not capable of dealing with or would put too much stress on the healer you purify
static pilot
So you use ISB like we use SB when HR was in use
chilly brook
Purify removes I think like 40% of saved stagger now? I don’t remember anymore because I rerolled prot this xpac
static pilot
See, to me, standing in the outside, it feels like IP and purifying has the same niche
chilly brook
But it’s not
static pilot
Only you use it reactively and we use it proactively
chilly brook
IP is proactive
And serves a different function
Stagger is basically IP but the damage that is mitigated becomes a dot
That can stack
static pilot
I get that, but I don't really see the difference
Say a boss is gonna hit you for 60k
chilly brook
You still take that 60k as a monk
static pilot
As a warrior you use IP before it hits to stop 20k damage
chilly brook
Just for simplicities sake you take 30k up front and 30k over x amount of seconds
static pilot
As a monk you hit purifying after the hut to stop 20k damage from entering your stagger pile
(made up numbers)
chilly brook
Except that’s not how it works
sick sentinel
😂
chilly brook
You don’t purify unless you really need to
That’s why monk takes on average more damage than most tanks
static pilot
I appreciate you trying to explain the difference but I guess it's just not clicking for me
chilly brook
You’re maybe going to get between 3 and 4 purifies off in one minute but that’s assuming you even need to at all
sick sentinel
IP on the GCD separates the mongoloids who just want to spam revenge vs actual tanks that pay attention to the situation and keep their IP up w/ SB/AM rotation.
chilly brook
I mean if you revenge spam you don’t have the rage to IP regardless of if it’s on gcd or not
sick sentinel
Right. Making them mongos.
chilly brook
It just makes them uninformed or intentionally obtuse, the gcd has nothing to do with it
static pilot
God damn, what's with the hate speak in Skyhold :(
chilly brook
What hate speak?
uneven mason
If a boss is going to do 60k hit, the warrior reduces it by 50% (Armor) then reduces the 30k remaining by 40% (block) then reduces the remaining 18k by 50% (IP) taking only 9 k actual damage.
Monk just dodges the F**KING hit
chilly brook
Oh snap
They actually buffed purifying
Now clears 50%
@uneven mason sure if it’s an auto 😜
static pilot
How does monks handle magic?
chilly brook
Pretty much all of the actual tank bits that aren’t autos aren’t dodgeable
Not as well
You can only stagger magic at 35% effectiveness
uneven mason
yeah which is pretty painful for monks
chilly brook
And our only “magic” CD is like 5 minutes and negated if we get auto’d while channeling
uneven mason
obviously /s Beth
chilly brook
I say magic in quotation because you can technically use it on any hit and it’s a huge DR but it only works until you get melee’d so half the time you can’t even use it properly to mitigate magic
static pilot
I know kiting is a viable tactic but it really does amuse me that the recommended tactic for a warrio to avoid magic damage is to run away ^^
uneven mason
But for magic, warriors have fairly reliable mitigation vs Tankbuster (every 25s we can reduce it by 40% + IP)
its the spammy crap
and its not running away, its corner dodging
sick sentinel
IP has decent gear scaling too.
uneven mason
you let them start the cast
static pilot
yeah, Im thinking less about the tankbuster stuff and more about the trash magic casts - like the enforcers in Storm
chilly brook
I mean IP in and of itself is very nice for magic damage
uneven mason
then wiggle around a corner, when thye catch up, slap em a few times, wiggle around the corner
static pilot
~60-70k magic damage per hit (assuming you dont have SR up)
devout quartz
Does anyone know if the Ablative Shielding trait stacks?
chilly brook
Until you realize IP doesn’t have near enough absorb value and is gone in 2 globals on magic mobs
uneven mason
Tankbuster warriors are professional level mitigators
chilly brook
😭
sick sentinel
static pilot
ablative shielding... is that the magnum opus trait?
chilly brook
What
sick sentinel
Shield Gods
chilly brook
Hold on
static pilot
if so, yes it does
chilly brook
What mobs do 60-70k a hit in storm?
sick sentinel
The mobs you dont move out of their projected attacks maybe.
chilly brook
I don’t remember anything hitting that hard
chilly brook
Except for the shadow casters which you’re supposed to interrupt anyways
uneven mason
If you stand in something bad you take that much
sick sentinel
The hardest hitting to me being the last bosses adds when you go in the void realm.
chilly brook
Yea that tank add sucks if you don’t have a healer
static pilot
the shadow casters are pretty unpleasant too, they're in the same packs
uneven mason
at least that's physical for the most part
chilly brook
Which I did 90% of the fight because we did the achievement
devout quartz
Ablative shielding is Armor when you fall below 40%. It’s available on my engi goggles as well as shoulders
chilly brook
One recommendation if you’re going to do that achievement don’t do it on a warrior do it on something with self healing
Because you’re going to spend 90% of the fight hostile to your party
Literally ended the fight with 1% health
static pilot
this is the ability I was thinking of - I'm not sure if you can sidestep it, if you can that makes it easier: https://www.wowhead.com/spell=268273/deep-smash
chilly brook
I felt like I got no healing in between the hostile phases
static pilot
although 1 sec cast aint a terrific amount of time to dodge multiple smashes while staying on the shadow caster
sick sentinel
Boss dead before another. Cycled cooldowns between the 25/5second heal windows.
And focusing IP.
Rogue had issues, but we did it fine.
static pilot
I'll try that next time, thanks 😃
uneven mason
Thats not a "Warrior solution" thats a smart fucking gameplay every tank should be doing it solution
sick sentinel
I'd imagine be mad easier if you had an azerite veins armor.
uneven mason
Because yeah you need o kite that while the rest of the group dogpiles the shadowcaster
otherwise that pack is a wipe
static pilot
fair enough, I've had some issues with a second pack - the berserkers in king's rest
I tried kiting but then they put the bleed dot on melee instead
uneven mason
^
ember arrow
and dont take melees to kings rest
static pilot
so alternate kiting and tanking depending on your stack level and let melee have it
ember arrow
ye
compact sigil
they just recently changed it from every 4 seconds they do severing whatever to 8 seconds as well
static pilot
eh, I'd rather take a suboptimal comp of guildies than pug
uneven mason
all melee /flex
static pilot
that's true, I saw that in the patch notes
random cliff
Anyone trustworthy who can tell me if you get the Hydrocores back when u scrap the BoP Legs
chilly brook
Yes
uneven mason
But yeah the first run with 2 mages druid and hunter was a lot smoother
chilly brook
You just don’t get the expulsom back
uneven mason
the Golden serpent is some mean shit with all melee
random cliff
alright, ty
sick sentinel
Wish I had plate to stack in my guild.
dapper copper
yooo Kings Rest, Shadow caster trash mini boss right before the last boss; that guy destroys me
chilly brook
Or at least that’s what my guild tells me
marble pelican
so i'm learning as a tank that dps players are a pain the butt....zerg forget strategy.
chilly brook
You mean Zul?
sick sentinel
😟
chilly brook
Yea kinda a mean man
static pilot
@dapper copper
They nerfed him by 30% today
his shadow damage has been reduced significantly since reset
chilly brook
Today or yesterday?
dapper copper
ahhh yess Ty Blizz
uneven mason
He was rough.
ember arrow
he wasnt a problem
sick sentinel
Spam IP/SR. It dies.
ember arrow
but sure
static pilot
today/yesterday depending on zone
marble pelican
lol
sick sentinel
SB not needed.
chilly brook
I mean I guess that’s why I didn’t feel like I was getting nearly as chunked as I was yesterday
uneven mason
I felt like I was taking nearly no damage in my mythics lastnight
chilly brook
Man yesterday was a great day
uneven mason
I thoguht it was because I had finally gotten a shield and 350 weapon
chilly brook
Went from 342 to 346
uneven mason
the only time I took damage is when our carry mage jumped in the cannon and blasted the healer and me
chilly brook
Literally have BiS azerite now going into Uldir
compact sigil
i only have shield and weapon to replace, both 325, everything else 340, i need this to be a good week
marble pelican
wheat is the best weapon out there as of now? asking for a friend 😃
uneven mason
the highest ilvl you can get
wide juniper
yesterday sucked
chilly brook
Sure it’s for a “friend” 😜
compact sigil
damn Favon, I only did alta and waycrest, I'm trying to spread my disappointment out throughout the week
uneven mason
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1sQCha2ljAyXDZuvY5ce-TiDAi49RvKeldAjWLNOqMEo/edit#gid=1346813246 @marble pelican
dapper copper
yo are there actually any dps that beat prot warrior on a trash pack where u pre pop avatar? cause I havent found any yet; also note full blown dps rotation TC/Revenge/TC/Revenge
compact sigil
I had an arms warrior do it once Warrior
chilly brook
@wide juniper I logged out in Arms apparently
wide juniper
You turd
compact sigil
warbreaker into bladestorm for about 30k dps for a sec
chilly brook
But I got that 2h yesterday as well
bronze helm
@dapper copper a single use of fang will beat that
wide juniper
Nice. My arms buddy was getting geared last night. Meanwhile I'm just melting items.
chilly brook
I also got fang last night 😂
dapper copper
Thats sounds right, I dont think I’ve played with a warrior yet lol
uneven mason
The mace from AD or Temple probably "BiS" as far as 2ndaries go
but ilvl > all for weapons
marble pelican
last night I left my first Mythic last boss in Tol, we had done a great job, they kept wiping, over and over and over 6 times. because they stayed bunched up and the blast kept wiping the group, they didn't understand why, even after I explained it to them. I can live with on normal because of learning, but not mythic
compact sigil
i really want the 1h from the pig boss in waycrest, i'm glad weapons and weapon equips are back
bronze helm
I love the last boss in tol dagor. Probably my favourite so far
sick sentinel
what
bronze helm
It's simple with plenty of room for mistakes but you can't go full pants on head retarded like every other boss
valid turret
Has anyone else noticed the 200% damage buff in the council fight in King's Rest being super inconsistent? It only goes on me like 50% of the time through all my runs, and I'm not sure why. It's missed me with SB up and without it up, it's missed me with my back turned, idk wtf even is happening. Am I just bad
chilly brook
@wide juniper here’s a slightly outdated screenshot so you can get an idea of my prot set, shoulders were replaced with the shoulders from motherlode, helmet replaced with helmet from freeholde, the rings replaced with the two in my armory
sick sentinel
everyone just stacks on the corner of a tower (pick one, I use left). Backs to wall, kill the boss. Never get knocked back, minimal movememnt, blow up the boss.
Easy boss.
wide juniper
Just curious what you considered BiS azerite
sick sentinel
chilly brook
The ones listed on icy veins
uneven mason
1DC 2 BfI
chilly brook
^
uneven mason
almost never get that tho
uneven mason
I have 1 DC 1 BFI 1 IF
sick sentinel
such is the RNG life.
rapid harness
is there any alternative to herodamage for prot warrior dps trinkets?
marble pelican
@bronze helm I love the dungeon just know the fights that's what annoys me
sick sentinel
I have 1 BFI 1 DC 1 IF as well atm.
wide juniper
Don't you shitheads pin me
uneven mason
wide juniper
Moon2A
sick sentinel
wide juniper
😡
hearty portal
wide juniper
You're all dead to me.
sick sentinel
same.
wide juniper
new new my ass 😡
sick sentinel
😄
sick sentinel
DC is god must trait.
uneven mason
DC is the best trait
signal plover
@wide juniper
hearty portal
Just me
chilly brook
Speaking of which is the sword from temple the BiS technically?
sick sentinel
I'd never replace it for an Uldir armor tbh (there is no DC Uldir azerite armor)
wide juniper
😐 🔫
uneven mason
chances are the benefit of higher DS uptime even ST will outwieght the 45 ilvl gap between dungeon gear and mythic Uldir
compact sigil
I like iron fortress more than I should, i like the sound of it, fits the class imo
hearty portal
@wide juniper have you checked the pins?
chilly brook
@sick sentinel we’ve been through this yesterday we can’t possibly know if it’s worth until logs come out
uneven mason
which means DC is probably up for a nerf
sick sentinel
IF azerite has its places I think in mythic+. but BFI will yield more block increase + ST damage.
wide juniper
😵 🔫
uneven mason
Well just napkin mathing it, its REALLY close
compact sigil
oh yeah, completely agree BFI is better
uneven mason
I mean, it is a large chunk of EHP you give up for keeping DC
but DC is just that strong right now.
sick sentinel
yeah man.
chilly brook
I mean DC is technically a 3% DR over the course of a fight isn’t it?
Or was the napkin math wrong yesterday
signal plover
Got the m helm with DC on it last night, have m shoulders/chest with BFI...shit feels gud
uneven mason
right, but you can't avg something out like that more or less, we need the live data because it 100% depends on the effectivness of its uptime
Like, if you're extending DS into lower damage valleys
than its not going to matter a whole lot
sick sentinel
chilly brook
TBH it’s kinda hard to actually make DS 100% effective
chilly brook
Especially with BV and AM
wide juniper
My shield.... PepeHands
sick sentinel
I'mma nut if I can get myself a solid high mythic+ DC azerite after next week.
chilly brook
Your pretty much hurting yourself if you’re holding onto it for an extended amount of time
uneven mason
chances are its going to be beat by the raw EHP increase on the 45ilvls
that is A L O T of str sta and armor
chilly brook
I would agree
uneven mason
but is it > 3% DR over the course of a fight.
progression would probably say yes.
just for the sheer need to have that extra padding.
sick sentinel
having a solid shield, its value is too good to ignore. beyond itself and increasing block, makes additional scaling value to your IPs w/ less physical damage going through, smaller hits to drain your IP, that is already increased by your AP/vers/mastery.
chilly brook
I mean I’ll probably be shoehorned into it regardless
sick sentinel
too good.
unreal flume
I haven't had a single BFI trait drop
chilly brook
Even though my GM would trust me if I said that sandbagging the 45 ilvls was better
chilly brook
I’m sure some of my healers would be like “wut?”
unreal flume
And shields seem like they don't exist for me
sick sentinel
nah.
sick sentinel
artifacts was just a 1 expansion fluke in my prot life.
sick sentinel
hardly noticed more than a blip over my warrs lifetime.
unreal flume
I don't mind artifacts being shelved, just wish you could target an item and not have RNG wreck you 20 times
sour osprey
I feel so small with my 324 ilvl in front of you with the 355/340 ilvl XD
chilly brook
355? Boi I wish!
frosty wedge
lol
lusty grotto
i think the biggest problem with shield drops (and generally weapon drops) are the looting system changes
chilly brook
I mean don’t get me wrong I got a lot of titanforge rolls but not that many
sick sentinel
yeah nim.
unreal flume
I got so lucky with trinkets 😛
sick sentinel
stack shield classes. 😦
lusty grotto
cause it would be fine if it was the old thing
sour osprey
But i feel this is to much of farming when the ilvl will go up when the raids wil be released
chilly brook
Not for people that are going to do one week of heroic and then jump straight into Mythic the next week
lusty grotto
i meant to say it would feel fine
signal plover
I got one more chance at a shield this week otherwise I'ma have to drop 200k on an oswains.
frosty wedge
you could run heroics and hope for titanforges :p
signal plover
I'd rather blow the 200k tbh
frosty wedge
I picked up a 340 jes' last night 😄
unreal flume
Got a 355 Jes' Howler from my first run
chilly brook
And GL pugging normal below mid 330 ilvl
unreal flume
Feels good
sour osprey
Yeah of course Matt ^^ everyone goes at the speed they want that's the beauty of wow 😃
uneven mason
yesh
static pilot
I wonder if the price on the boe shield will go up or down today
unreal flume
Hopefully down
chilly brook
I was getting declined from Mythic groups at 343 as a arms warrior last night
static pilot
a lot of people will burn their last lockout before the raid today, if they dont get a shield drop they'll look to buy one
lusty grotto
im targetting the 1hander from ataldazar and jes/rezan this week since i got the shield last week
chilly brook
So I don’t wanna see normal Uldir pugs
static pilot
don't take it personally Griff, I get about 80 DPS signing up whenever I list a run
keen yacht
link aotc
unreal flume
I'm gonna have to run the pugs myself - guildless for the first time in forever
keen yacht
360 or dont bother
chilly brook
@static pilot nah I get that reality but I’ve also seen people sign up, most aren’t 340 or above
uneven mason
So did some more napkin maths, Griff, UPUNTIL 385, you'll keep the DC peice
chilly brook
Seems legit
uneven mason
If you get a 355 or higher fomr the M+ chests with DC
lusty grotto
i had pug spots last week i only put 320 and just picked whatever was needed which boiled down to ranged or melee basically
uneven mason
you'll probably keep that too
uneven mason
but the base 340 vs 385 the 385 comes out on top just from raw mitigation point
unreal flume
at least we can swap azerite gear now
keen yacht
sick
uneven mason
it gives enough armor to be an effective 3.2%~ mitigation gain
with 4200 health to boot
but below 385...its up in the air, raw EHP or longer DS stretches for high damage phases.
chilly brook
I can’t begin to imagine how frustrating it’s going to be getting a crap azerite piece 90% of the time from your Mythic cache without any way to actually farm it
uneven mason
at least we can get up to 3 items now
static pilot
you wont have to imagine for much longer ^^
chilly brook
You know kinda like how Ian used to talk about “you’re going to know where it comes from and you can go farm it”
uneven mason
6DAYS BOYS< HYPE
chilly brook
Lul
astral crystal
The worst part is how your azerite piece will most likely be your weakest piecee
chilly brook
IAN IS FAKE NEWS
:kappa
Or is it Ion?
I don’t remember anymore
@uneven mason I’m just excited to get into raid again
3 night raid week next week
uneven mason
Yeah?
chilly brook
1 for normal 2 for heroic and then it’s into Mythic we go
dusk locust
i'm still trying to decide whether to start in normal or just go straight to heroic
probably gonna do 1 normal run
chilly brook
It makes more sense to do normal to me first but then again it’s kinda a wash with the new loot system
chilly brook
I mean hopefully
dusk locust
well a good argument is you do heroic THEN normal so you can trade gear
weak phoenix
wait really only 77 days? i haven't raided since mop and it was way longer back then
sick sentinel
zzz
dusk locust
i just don't know how hard to expect heroic to be. bosses look reasonably straightforward
chilly brook
@dusk locust if we could only ML wouldn’t even have a problem 😭
dusk locust
tbh as an officer i'm not sad it's gone hahaha
chilly brook
🤔
dusk locust
loot council was a pain
chilly brook
I mean it’s even worse imo to get an “ilvl upgrade” then get a lower ilvl in personal loot that is an actual upgrade and be expected to trade
uneven mason
My only issue with loot council was the fact when they took like 5 minutes per boss to deliberate on something
like "Just loot the shit and hand it out on break"
chilly brook
And yes I’m sandbagging ilvls as Arms because strength isn’t king
uneven mason
as long as you're not doing it wihtout simming
I mean str gain + 2ndary gain might trump replacing a peice with "best" stats
dusk locust
everyone wants their loot immediately. same reason they ported out to do the netherlight crucible between boses
uneven mason
Thye asked me to lead a raid once in my last guild
chilly brook
That’s actually valid
uneven mason
someone hearthed to do the NLC when we didn't hav a lock
dusk locust
and yeah i think the gear should go out immediately
chilly brook
Netherlight was a fairly measurable difference tbh
Meh I don’t care about how fast gear goes out
There’s no reason the rest of the raid can’t continue clearing trash
dusk locust
everyone standing around in front of the next boss while loot council talks was kinda lame though. sometimes you have a piece of loot that's really hard to pick
especially when there's no trash b/t bosses, like aggramar -> argus
chilly brook
My guild didn’t seem to have much of an issue with it
chilly brook
You could always just establish guidelines when it’s a close pick
So that way when it comes to it you already have some sort of deciding factor
dusk locust
sometimes it's slightly better for person A, but person B hasn't gotten loot in 2 months
we're not exactly pushing for world records so our more inclusive attitude is part of it
dusk locust
yeah one of our healer officers got no loot in mythic until 3 months in
yep new players is part of what causes that
uneven mason
and they were like "well Ikari is doing fine, so and so needs help!" after the 7th tier gloves passed me over I raised an issue with it
chilly brook
I mean in the long run I don’t get much loot, short term I do as a MT
uneven mason
rather I raised an issue when the same person who got Tier gloves, got tier helm and got the Iron relic off of Argus
I raised an issue with it
By saying "They must give really good head"
dusk locust
tanks traditionally get stuff last so it can be kinda rough
don't have to worry about that anymore now that master loot's gone
uneven mason
The guild I'm running with now seems to understand that progression is carried on your healers and tanks at first tho..
dusk locust
i have no interest in having everyone hand their loot to the raid leader
chilly brook
But I’m looking at it through a cutting edge mindset
weary remnant
Guys what do you think about prot warriors position atm (idc raid patch) in comparisson with blood DK
chilly brook
We’re fine
chilly brook
Blood is fairly close to what it was in legion just lessened amounts of self healing
dusk locust
it takes more knowledge and effort to tank but we tank just as well as anyone if you do it right
chilly brook
Prot is good if you’re playing decently if not then gl
weary remnant
I really like prot warriors mobility, but i always feel like blood dk just outshines tank wise
chilly brook
One of our main healers in a Mythic last night was complaining about me not taking any damage if that tells you anything
In terms of mitigation I’d say warrior definitely comes out on top
Utility blood will shine
But that utility is hit or miss in raid
dark junco
warrior comes on top for content that actually do little/to no damage
Like if 2 IP can cover a pulls worth of damage, we'll be fine
And in low mythics, our dps seems to help a ton
chilly brook
We also have way more DPS than blood
weary remnant
they can handle multi pulling until the groups stuns come in?
chilly brook
I do
dark junco
We pulled the giant boss in Siege, and aoe'd all the trash it pulled while ressetting the boss
chilly brook
If it does physical damage you’ll be killing the mitigation
dark junco
I pulled 27k, ret 32, DH 29k and rogue 22
dusk locust
yeah we do silly aoe damage
dark junco
Rogue was like wtf
chilly brook
I’ve bursted over 40k /shrug
dusk locust
at the end of dungeons i'm usually not too far behind dps
dark junco
Yup avatar + demo + stuns so I can do revenge and tclap without ever using anything beside a shield block lol
chilly brook
It’s fun running with new trials because they flip out when they see my DPS
dusk locust
having tanked only in bfa so far i actually have no idea how much dps other tanks do
chilly brook
Can’t wait to combine avatar with fang
dark junco
In overall dps I end up with about 5k-7k after a m0, whats yours guys ?
chilly brook
From what I’ve been told nothing like what we do except for DH’s
But I can’t be sure
And maybe paladins?
That I can’t be sure should be after the paladins
willow wraith
what fang you talking about? The poisen trinket?
willow wraith
i tried using it but hated the channel aspect of it
sick sentinel
I have that trinket and can get 20-30k+ DPS on trash pulls, but I don't THINK you can dodge / parry / block whilst channeling it, so you take a huge damage spike
cerulean bison
Is big red button any good as a dps trink or smth? XD
chilly brook
Speaking of which it’s actually funny how much damage Thunderclap does in single target
Still my top damage
dusk locust
i have big red button. i like to use it for when dps goes too ham on something or we pull an extra group and i gotta grab aggro back asap
seems to do decent dmg
chilly brook
I think I scrapped it
onyx radish
Why's that surprising? Avatar 20%, low CD TC which is by far the hardest hitting ST ability with the talent, lowest CD.
chilly brook
Big red button that is
dusk locust
it replaced a 300 trinket for me (it's 340) and i haven't found anything to replace that yet
using that and blockades
cerulean bison
my trinks are low ilvl ones so mby I Should use this 345 Big red don't push it button
dusk locust
i forget what stats it provides
chilly brook
I mean what can I expect when I hit 14k+ tclaps
vestal condor
14k crits im hoping?
cerulean bison
its like 200 str
vestal condor
im just hitting 9k no crit TC's with all cooldowns
chilly brook
I wish I was hitting 14k non crits lol
floral spade
Are they going to fix prot in 8.1? It feels so bad to play
chilly brook
It feels fine to me
dusk locust
yeah i don't think it feels that bad
sick sentinel
dun like big red button for pve/tanking. spread/splits too much. It blows up good a single target in pvp tho.
chilly brook
Actually it feels good minus having to press Demo Shout and avatar and IP on gcd
sick sentinel
have had it crit 50k fire on a kid as arms.
dusk locust
only time it really gets awkward is if i want to hit avatar demo and IP but i still need to be doing dps to hold aggro. just a matter of planning i guess
that right there is a big red button situation if i mess up 😛
dusk locust
avatar doesn't boost trinket damage right
dusk locust
sometimes the tooltip lies
sick sentinel
it works.
cosmic cargo
those kind of abilities are all whiteliested now
trinkets are not affected by spec modifiers anymore like in legion
sick sentinel
using that + warbreaker + running 12% vers for fat big red button.
cosmic cargo
versa yes
the others no
scroll down to effect https://www.wowhead.com/spell=107574/avatar
same thing with pala wings