@dark junco it’s supposed to be BiS isn’t it?
#protection
chilly brook
dire shoal
can I just have deafening crash all expansion lol
grim prism
@dark junco no because i only have outer ring unlocked lololol
uneven mason
Kral yes, because there are no pieces with 100% optimal traits
regal island
lol i don't have 1 deafening crash yet
uneven mason
so AV is one of the "solid seconds
regal island
8x 340 az pieces none with deaf.
regal island
i destroyed some
dark junco
Yeah but not sure if AV > blocking trait of 1st row I forgot the name off
grim prism
I have so much BiS shit for fury. Shame i'm crap at it
chilly brook
@dark junco also shouldn’t you be able to see the traits by just shift clicking the items in the dungeon journal
dark junco
I’d love to get sims for that
regal island
wanted to see what the scrapper would give me, 2 monolith ore...
dark junco
@chilly brook no loot atm
chilly brook
I’d say outer ring is most important
uneven mason
yeah
dark junco
Or is it me?
chilly brook
What you can look at the Uldir gear
uneven mason
I'd agree
dark junco
I see empty pages, might be my ui, will reset it
chilly brook
Try changing the difficulty
dark junco
Yeah will check thT when i get home I guess
chilly brook
Because it was showing me the gear yesterday
dark junco
But yeah balsaq were you the one maintening simsc for prot?
chilly brook
@dire shoal just gotta hope for super lucky RNG azerite piece out of your M+ chest 😜
Since you know you can’t actually get azerite gear from the dungeons in M+ it only comes from the weekly chest
Because THAT was a great idea
/s
dark junco
^
grim prism
@dark junco absolutely not
dire shoal
wait really
chilly brook
Yes really
dire shoal
that sounds like something that theyre going to change quick lmao
uneven mason
Balsaq doesn't use SimC
uneven mason
he rides his bike over to Mcdonalds and sims his shit on Napkins
dire shoal
if ignore pain and sweeping strikes werent on gcd i dont think id even care
dark junco
Wonder how it works to find someone to do it then will check around
dire shoal
and avatar
chilly brook
RIP
regal island
dire shoal
i hate accidentally trinketing BEFORE avatar
chilly brook
If avatar wasn’t on GCD same with IP and Demo Shout I’d cream
grim prism
@dark junco its all open-source on Github
dark junco
thanks ❤ Really have no clue how it works haha
grim prism
Just gotta find whats broken and fix it lolol
regal island
so imo farm for 3 pieces of crash gear @ 340
grim prism
My guess is that people who code for a living cant be fucked to fix it for free, and people who dont code for a living wont know how to diagnose and bughunt it
Kind of a catch 22
regal island
Release an apl and call it good
grim prism
Its too bad prot is a dumpster spec that is inviable in all BfA content :^)
@regal island g i t h u b
regal island
nah prot is good, too good they don't want sims leaked and then it gets nerfed.
regal island
double prot tanks intervening eachother and out dpsing the dps
plain ice
afaik, the prot APL from legion wasn't too long/complex
uneven mason
Well our single target sims are not out of range of other tanks.
grim prism
The only problem with prot in arenas is that you arent running three of them
plain ice
i've been considering looking into it
grim prism
@plain ice for the love of god please do
Progress updates are so few and far between that i'm led to believe that we havent been updated since being broken in Legion
plain ice
that was my thought as well
going to try and set aside at time this afternoon to take a look at their repo on github
my boss sits next to me, but it should look like i'm doing work 🙃
grim prism
If you take a look and legitimately think you may be able to help, you should let Sal or Marok know
Perhaps there has been some progress we arent aware of
stoic harness
Is there a site where I can see the different protection azerite traits, and which are better than others? Which isn't wowhead or Icy veins?
plain ice
will do
plain ice
i'll see if there are any open pull requests for prot as well
grim prism
The guide on Icy Veins was written by the officers here and is considered to be dead-nuts accurate
chilly brook
^
grim prism
It has also been updated as recently as last week with the Blockades buff hotfix
chilly brook
I don’t see why there’s so much hate for icy veins
stoic harness
I see. But I saw some classes had the traits listed in a row, where damage was calculated for every trait
grim prism
We cant do that, unfortunately
Simc doesnt work for prot war
Coincidentally thats precisely what we were just talking about
half merlin
sorry wasnt following the discussion whats wrong with icy veins?
grim prism
Nothing
chilly brook
I mean you probably shouldn’t be looking to get max DPS traits so early in the xpac anyways
stoic harness
Nothing is wrong. I was just looking for a more precise calculation of all the traits 😃
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
grim prism
There is an explanation of why they are ranked how they are, and it is based on more than just opinion
regal island
How are there no 350+ Az pieces with deafening crash. No rep vendor ones, no uldir ones... man
dark junco
everyone's hating on icyveins because for all legion everyone on all discord was saying don't use that
grim prism
Unfortunately that is the best we can do at the moment
dark junco
use discord to know what to do
stoic harness
No worries. Thanks for the answer 😃
regal island
bring back elitistjerks...
half merlin
btw azerite veins stack right?
dark junco
Not Fully Implemented - All Healers/Protection Warrior Druid Monk Paladin Priest Shaman Warrior enhancement help wanted
#2775 opened on Aug 21, 2016 by Gothicknight
regal island
til max health
dark junco
2016
regal island
so it loses some value.
dark junco
2 - 0 - 1 - 6
half merlin
mmh, true, but can be pretty mlg. i really like it tbh
grim prism
@dark junco FUCK
chilly brook
@dark junco I mean but for all the classes I played the icy veins reflected discord or was done by some of the people in the discord 🤔
timid jay
There has been some talk about it but I wouldnt expect it anytime soon
regal island
eh i'm not a fan, too much kiting in high keys so its useless and getting topped off in raids makes it useless.
dark junco
Like for real
Can we get at least anything working: we're the only freaking tank not into it
Don't surprise yourself if we get all the hate lol
chilly brook
I mean we’re probably the least popular tank rn so I don’t think it’s high priority
dark junco
Then can we get marok to set up a gofundme and find a coder to do it ?
timid jay
DPS sims are hardly high priority for tanks anyway
regal island
keep it secret... keep it safe. prot apl will show how scary dps we'll be with haste.
timid jay
Its nice to have but yeah
dark junco
No, but freaking mitigation is
timid jay
And sims dont help with that
dark junco
They do
grim prism
But anyone could have stepped up to it by now. The community at large is at fault, not any one person. We must accept culpability for warriors being a simple people
dark junco
They give you a ballpark
chilly brook
I haven’t seen a mitigation sim 🤔
timid jay
A very useless ballpark
grim prism
SimC has mitigative sims now, but whether or not they are accurate is moot considering that we have no sims whatsoever
dark junco
Thats your opinion, but if we're the only tank not having a sim, we're the wrong ones
I don't think all the other tanks are in the wrong
steady fiber
guys why all ppl hates warrior tanks ? i mean i saw realy many players that are saying that warrior tank is pure shit, and i should reroll to decent one that's fake or ?
dark junco
making us even more niche wont help at all
having sims and getting representation there and allowing sims would help
chilly brook
I don’t think it really makes a difference
dark junco
Wtf is my text red ???
half merlin
how hard can it be really
dark junco
lawl
chilly brook
@steady fiber because it’s based on the perception that only some tanks are viable
When in reality all of them are but prot is lower on the totem pole in terms of effectiveness
dark junco
Meanwhile, the only tank that get shit on is warrior
timid jay
How are we getting shit on
dark junco
By reputation and voice and representation
steady fiber
well for that i was really starting to think on warrior tank 🤔 and reroll part
grim prism
@steady fiber prot uses proactive mitigation instead of self-sustain utilities, thus can be seen as more punishing than other tanks when we make mistakes. We aren't "bad" and anybody who says that we are unviable is frankly an idiot
timid jay
People are uninformed as usual, its not something new in wow
grim prism
We arent the best spec in the game but we certainly arent shit
plain ice
i just play my class to the fullest potential and make uninformed idiots who play with me look dumb
when they realize it's good
chilly brook
@steady fiber the reality is that if you keep your AM up when it needs to be and keep IP up as often as possible you’ll be fine
dark junco
when you roll sims, if you see warrrior up there, peeps will say, wow warrior do dps, thats nice
Dude don't judge for others
timid jay
We arent especially strong on ST
timid jay
Which coincidentally most of those big lists are
dark junco
No its aoe that get simmed for tanks
half merlin
dumb question incoming - how did the azerite trait priority list come about on icy veins? just by pure testing or by applying logic and sound reasoning?
chilly brook
I’ve tanked all content available rn in prot and it’s a breeze if you do your part
half merlin
(or both)
chilly brook
I’m actually glad I chose warrior tbh because it seems we can output some snazzy damage which is a huge plus to me since part of what made me love BrM last xpac was the damage I could push out
I mean I could have gone with DH if I was really concerned about damage but they’re just too clunky to me
timid jay
Besides, sitting and complaining that we dont have working sims isnt helping either
grim prism
@half merlin logic and numerical comparisons that are not based in sims (although I am not the one who wrote it, I am kind of putting words in the creator's mouth)
timid jay
Fix them yourself or find someone who is willing and able to do it if it matters that much to you
timid jay
I could give you a list I have made of everything that needs fixing
signal plover
@timid jay did u do any heroic Raid testing?
bronze lance
first couple days of BfA healing a warrior was way easier in heroic, and in mythic has been easy over other tanks. I dont know if the warrior tanks i have healed are just actually good and know what to do or if the other tanks i healed were shit but also tanking on my warrior has been easy and smooth
timid jay
Basically your saying that you cant be bothered to do it so Marok should find someone
🤔
dark junco
If me, random warrior do it, won't get traction
timid jay
What
signal plover
Anyone remember what ilvl the heroic raid testing premade chars were? 360?
dark junco
I pinged him, no answers
timid jay
Since sims matters so much for you. Just find one of the other SimC devs and tell them what needs fixing and throw some money at them
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uneven mason
Whats the list Cosmo?
dark junco
Why are you adverse to it anyway ? Like I don't understand why you're not willing to get on board with it
Like I'd love to get the list
Or any other issues you've seen on simC
timid jay
Im just saying it isnt really anyones priority
uneven mason
I might be unemployed soon, so shoot me the list, if i get fired, I'll spend some free time doing it 😄
dark junco
since 20-freaking-16 we've been ootl and peeps vision
like sco telling we're shit
Saying in the beta we're shit
dark junco
Alright lemme get ya the vod
uneven mason
because it was beta
grim prism
I think we are getting a little histrionic here
timid jay
Sco saying we are shit are based on his view on progress tanks
wide juniper
Sigh. Abandoned a group before we even started for being aholes in chat. I get a whisper, "Warriors suck anyways. Worst tanks."
timid jay
Which coincidentally is defensive
grim prism
@wide juniper bullet dodged
wide juniper
Basically.
signal plover
That's where u gotta go in, dumpster em in DPS and then drop
uneven mason
THere is a massive difference between "shit" and "not going to be the best choice for Cutting edge progression"
dark junco
There you go
grim prism
Ive never been in a group like that that was enjoyable lol
grim prism
Even in the rare cases they are as good as they present themselves as being
dark junco
Like please just allow me to do something beside waiting
wide juniper
However, I'll be MTing for my mythic guild, so.
lethal gulch
@wide juniper happened to me just a few minutes ago, I entered the group and the dude said, "oh god, not a warrrior tanker"
dark junco
^
uneven mason
I mean, I'm in a main tank spot for a mythic raid team right now
dark junco
Thats what I wanna fucking solve
wide juniper
Allow me to out dps you and have no probs with threat.
timid jay
So please tell me exactly how offensive sims are going to help
uneven mason
Ok, so when you get a group like that
you go in there and represent
rather than being like "OH DEY WUS MEAN TU MEH"
dark junco
Thats a first step to representation
timid jay
Offensive:
Anger management needs to affect avatar
struct melee_t remove devastator rage gain
Devastator needs to have 20% chance to reset shield slam instead of the 30% from devastate (unsure if its set up like that)
Unstoppable force need implementing
2 rage per successful auto attack and 3 rage when hit needs to be added (RFDT is gone)
Punish talent needs to be added
The azerite traits need to be implemented, Brace for impact, Callous Reprisal, Deafening Crash, Iron fortress and Reinforced plating are the prot warrior specific that affect damage
Defensive:
Bolster needs implementing
Ignore pain needs to be updated to 50% absorb, indom doesnt increase IP cap anymore and cap amount has changed to 1.3 of one cast.
Legion artifact stuff:
Demoralizing shout code has references to rumbling voice
Revenge has rage of the fallen
Shield slam has mentions of kakushan (legendary gloves) and Shatter the bones, the rage part also has might of the vrykul
Thunder clap has mentions of kakushan, the artifact trait thunder crash, the trait neltharions thunder and might of the vrykul
Ignore pain mentions dragon scales and dragon skin
Scales of the earth needs nuking
Neltharions fury needs nuking
Random stuff:
Intercept has double time under it? Cant get double time as prot and cant get intercept as dps
Intervene has its own code? its been gone for years
The list btw, skimmed through the code
shut summit
yea having a simcraft wouldnt have made those people not want a warrior tank for sure
dark junco
What you wanna do else ? if you got any idea to make things moving I'm on board
timid jay
Just link them your AoE sims
wide juniper
@uneven mason Absolutely. Mine was after I left. It was messaged to me after I left the group before pulling.
wide juniper
Very few people care about sims, especially about prot warriors.
grim prism
Everybody is equally culpable
wide juniper
We are the 1% that cares.
dark junco
Cosmo, what you wanna do to help solve the issue then ?
wide juniper
And truthfully, while I wouldn't mind a sim, I can read my own parses.
dark junco
(Also thanks for the list, will forward)
timid jay
Play well? Find people who actually notice you play well
timid jay
Continue playing with those people
wide juniper
Posting a sim does nothing if 90% of the class plays to half potential. That's the problem with warriors.
We aren't an easy class.
timid jay
You're not going to change public opinion fast unless the top end guild starts playing those specs
Its just how the game has been for ages
If the cutting edge people arent using it then it must be shit
wide juniper
Basically.
sick sentinel
yea it's shit, public will never play on a level to care what sco thinks and sco is going to produce as much content as he can, for $
so maybe the fix is convincing people they don't need to care about playing at that level, because, they aren't
wide juniper
This Sco bashing train is unreal.
wide juniper
He's pointing out a very specific instance. Cutting edge progression.
sick sentinel
and people are associating it with theirs
exactly
that's the issue
the association with not cutting edge
timid jay
The issue is that people dont take that into account when it comes to his opinion
wide juniper
Yeah
timid jay
On many levels I agree with him when it comes to being undergeared and trying for world firsts
wide juniper
Can we move on to our hourly GCD hate topic now?
sick sentinel
so maybe the fix is to have the content creators be more level headed "listen this is what i think but you really don't need to consider this unless [x]"
timid jay
Its a very different view on the game though
And something that most of us will never experience
grim prism
The way I see it, if a guild is cherrypicking a raid comp for minmaxing sake (to the point of blanket saying that you can't come if you play X) and they arent world top 100, they are probably a bunch of tryhard narps that arent fun to play with anyway
uneven mason
Yeah, Warriors are really only held back by our gear in pushing progression
grim prism
So who gives a shit about public perception?
uneven mason
if you manage to lady luck up a max TF shield on your first heroic clear
grim prism
I really, sincerely do not
sick sentinel
Balsaq, i think the issue is that sure, nobody wants to play with a bunch of tryhard copycats for raids but for a 30 minute m+
it's more frustrating
because some random has a social influence on your experience
even if you aren't in their guild
uneven mason
Solution - have your own M+ team
sinful surge
Hi, I'm quite new here, and new to prot warrior. I've read and heard a lot of bad things about it but I really don't think it's as bad as people think. Sure it's not a blood dk, but it seems to be on par with a monk or a paladin and they don't get as much hate. I've only done m0's so far so maybe I'm missing something that will come up with raids.
uneven mason
there's a discord for that
they generally don't shit on folks who are willing to put in the effort
grim prism
If tanks have trouble pugging keys this tier I will eat both of my Timbs raw
@sinful surge it really isnt as bad as people say, there is just a lot of mass hysteria because it is a new tier.
This is unfortunately not unusual
uneven mason
@sinful surge most of the bad stuff is just noise, as we were all just debating
debating is loosely used.
uneven mason
But we're very durable, king of the hill for AE damage in dungeons
sick sentinel
whatever the top meta shit is, everyone thinks that's the only way you can play the game
uneven mason
But Protection is probably the most punished for making mistakes with our toolkit
wide juniper
Same people that swap classes each expac to chase performance
sinful surge
I mean, sure you don't have 100% uptime on shield block and ignore pain is crap, but when your am is donw you have a ton of defensive cd's with fairly low cooldown. Prot warrior seems very balanced.
uneven mason
if played properly we take less damage in general than other tanks
@wide juniper If you're ina CE sort of guild, you're signing up to commit to the role, not the class
grim prism
I bet you anything if you ask why prot if bad, they will say PROT LACKS SELF-SUSTAIN
wide juniper
@uneven mason I get that for sure.
uneven mason
If you're a tank in a CE guild, you're going to have 3ish tanks on deck because of how last minute tuning might swing
wide juniper
But, that's very few people.
grim prism
Which is true, but we also have insane mitigation and the best mobility of any tank
sinful surge
As far as sustain goes, so does monk but people don't hate on them
wide juniper
And most of us in HERE have multiple tanks.
grim prism
People just like to QQ between tiers
uneven mason
Monks have a unique ability in stagger Ephrael, purge allows you to actually IGNORE the damage ( as in remove it completely)
This means it neither needs to tbe healed, or mitigated
putting monks in a boss mode tank happy time
junior ivy
uneven mason
Thats why folks don't shit on monks
junior ivy
i get this msg when i log in
but when i open character thing
thers nothing to upgrade
uneven mason
cause they can watch them gobble down an insane hit and then just laugh it off when they purge their red Stagger stack
grim prism
@junior ivy different armor piece maybe?
uneven mason
Warriors can do the same thing Proactively
junior ivy
i checvked them all im confused 😦
grim prism
Maybe its one of your 8000 addons
sinful surge
Anyway, I like prot warrior. I may even think about maining for Uldir.
uneven mason
Our strength lies greatly in the ability to cycle CDs very quick
and when needed, proactively stack them up to take a fraction of what other tanks do
grim prism
@sinful surge TLDR: the regulars here agree with you and hope you continue to be successful into Uldir
grim prism
Everything else is just complaints lol
sinful surge
I dropped my paladin this expantion because they put the miti and heal on gcd, which kind of killed the gameplay for me. Warrior is the closest thing I found so far.
final axle
how can you weigh tank stats ?
wide juniper
You don't on war
uneven mason
You don't
uneven mason
I stack versatility Balsaq does that make me a baddie?
chilly brook
@uneven mason monk purge Wadu?
final axle
ty
grim prism
Stacking vers isnt what makes you a baddie ikar
uneven mason
its not
chilly brook
I mean sure it’s damage you don’t take
grim prism
:^)
uneven mason
Well in general purifying combined with ISB allows them to eat some exceptionally large hits 😉
Oh I wasn't commenting on their gameplay
chilly brook
Yea
uneven mason
but was just overall saying thats why folks don't shit on monks
that and utility for M+
even though I think warriors are not far behind them on that.
chilly brook
I’m still not convinced they’re going to be all that great in M+
Everyone is saying they will be but I’m not convinced
chilly brook
They haven’t fundamentally changed coming from legion and they weren’t considered all that high in M+
uneven mason
What did change was VDH and BDK got weaker
grim prism
Yeah, and everyone says prot is a dumpster spec. We've long since established that "the wow community" is rife with stupidity and groupthonk
uneven mason
Heh
uneven mason
I try not too
chilly brook
Nope
uneven mason
I only go to r/wow to check on the latest meme
grim prism
I havent seen so many stupid people in one room since I got dropped into special ed in high school
chilly brook
Last time I was on the WoW forum it was a thread where a prot warrior was complaining on the basis that he was rejected from a raiding guild because he didn’t parse well in prot
uneven mason
so I don't feel behind the times whne my millennial guildies start word vomiting about them.
chilly brook
And I kinda facepalmed at his outrage and never went back
uneven mason
Well I mean, in Legion
chilly brook
Tanks don’t need to deal damage amirite?
chilly brook
I will say that’s one thing that I really appreciate about the threat changes
uneven mason
it gives them incentive to keep our damage tuned in the same bracket as DPS?
prisma crane
you mean tanks that actually do dmg are having zero issues?
chilly brook
It actually makes kids stop spitting that bs of “I don’t need to do damage I need to just stay alive”
Pretty much
prisma crane
i've been a parsewhore for far too long to stop now
i think my biggest downfall though is that i refuse to main anything but prot warrior
because atm i know i can squeeze the shit out of this lemon, but damn would be nice to go after some low hanging fruit
chilly brook
That’s one of the reasons I stuck with the prot warrior
Because I know I can squeeze it for damage
chilly brook
Meh I had a great time Legion tanking
At least as BrM and blood DK
And prot
Prot kept it fresh
Maximize DPS to maximize survivability
grim prism
Shame I feel like it kind of drifted away from that paradigm
I did enjoy that aspect of it
grim prism
Even if it meant getting into shoutinf matches with my raid leadership over strength flasks instead of stam
prisma crane
legion tanking wasnt boring unless you're strictly referring to survival
grim prism
Lol
chilly brook
But the rage burning isn’t quite as fluid and quick
prisma crane
on that note
a 2 sec rant
why the fuck
can i not just toggle that i want str from a damn feast
chilly brook
Lul they actually tried telling you you needed to use steam flasks? @grim prism
prisma crane
changing spec between pulls is horseshit, esp when you have trinkets with an on use
got to a point where i just had my default arms gear have the same prot trinkets so i didnt have that problem
chilly brook
You know what’s even worse?
prisma crane
how many tanks actually want stam this expansion?
chilly brook
Not being able to change gear sets in M+
I mean stam buff from consumables are stupid anyways because the extra hp you get isn’t really going to ever save you
prisma crane
idk why they did that, as if it closes skill gap, like a regular player has a chance to be top 10% anyways
grim prism
@chilly brook they also wanted me to use indom on krosus
chilly brook
Oof
prisma crane
what did indom compete with in NH?
grim prism
There's being controlling, and there's veering out of your fucking lane
Devastator lmao
prisma crane
was that when they added deva? cant remember
grim prism
This was definitely the latter of the two
chilly brook
I told my GM off once when he started trying to tell me what I should be doing
prisma crane
there was a post on the wow subreddit from a moron i raided with asking why "his tank" who always parses orange was using STR flask and deva instead of better "surv" talents, cuz he comes from a time when tanks only have to survive
this during agg prog
chilly brook
I replaced him as a tank and he was struggling tanking heroic dogs as a prot pally at like 940, a few weeks later I came in on a 910 or something like that pally and easily ranked heroic dogs with no issues
prisma crane
when i died exclusively to my own fuck ups, which i never denied or made excuses for during raid... lol
chilly brook
People don’t understand the concept of “if I’m not taking dangerous damage anymore and if my healer is perfectly fine with the level of damage I’m taking I should deal damage”
Not to mention main stat was far better survivability wise than just straight stamina
prisma crane
as was deva
¯_(ツ)_/¯
he was just a moron, but im no longer in that guild, so at least there's that
i moved downward in the guild world, but atm im happier for it
prisma crane
had a few high end guilds approach me (rare as fuck for alliance) but i wanted to chill this xpac
chilly brook
Toxic off-tank that talked a bunch of crap behind my back because I made him have to try because I actually did damage; and a GM and clique that tried pushing me out of the guild by ghosting me
prisma crane
guild dynamics, what a blast
chilly brook
Apparently getting high 90s and a few oranges as a Brewmaster wasn’t something to be proud of
prisma crane
how far in you get last expac?
chilly brook
Not as far as I would have liked
Started Mythic progression way late
So like 6/12
prisma crane
it's alright, you couldve 4 tanked agg while 2 tanking argus, cuz you know "strats"
chilly brook
Lol
prisma crane
ironically, the 2 tank argus was a joke that worked out (3rd tank was mia that day) and 4 tanking agg was pretty easy, just took ages to convince RL to do it
then that same cunt who made the post about me kept saying his alt DK needed to be funneled gear to be grip monkey on agg, like wut?
grim prism
Yeah the irony was that my cotank/GM/RL who was micromanaging my flask use got swapped out one night for a healer who offspecs as bear, and THAT was the night we downed Krosus
Hmmmmmmmmm
chilly brook
Lol
chilly brook
In our current guild we went over logs and looked at our then GM’s bear tank logs and lo and behold the guy who called everyone else out for doing things wrong was the most screwed in terms of rotation
glossy beacon
"i can't raid lead and do correct rotations at the same time when everyone is messing up!"
chilly brook
Next day he ninja’d a bunch of things out the bank, tried taking a bunch of people with him to his “new and better guild for BFA”
prisma crane
imho, the ultimate downfall of most middling CE guilds is that they base their strats around WF strats, as if they always translate to all player skillsets...
chilly brook
Oddly enough the next night we smashed PK no problem
Oh and he doesn’t even play WoW anymore just fortnite 😂
grim prism
More like their ultimate downfall is bringing a prot warrior in BfA amiright
chilly brook
Truuuu
uneven mason
As goes Method so must the world.
glossy beacon
this is my first xpac playing warrior let alone tanking, is it in a bad spot? feels pretty solid in the m0s and stuff that i've done so far
prisma crane
thing is, the one valid point ppl have about that idea is that a prot warr is too mistake unfriendly, and when you're tanking for 16hr days for 7 days a wk, that matters
chilly brook
I was giving one of our rogues a hard time about when she was going to swap to outlaw because she doesn’t like it and then she fired back with “when are you going to play a real tank” 😭
@glossy beacon it’s fine just not forgiving if you mess up
prisma crane
pretty much ^
nothing to write home about, but certainly not bad, but punishing during the teething process
chilly brook
It’s only seemed to get exponentially better with gear
prisma crane
i guess you can write home about our Avatar aoe windows, thats it
yea but that'll get scaled back, as it always has
and we dont always scale as well as the content around us (see IP)
chilly brook
I had to be a sweaty boi to stay alive tanking m0s at 302 ilvl
glossy beacon
yeah that was kinda my feeling, maybe it'll just become crazy strong with those armor traits or w/e
chilly brook
I mean the fact that I was able to tank m0s at 300 ilvl basically tells me we’ll be fine but then again raids can be completely different stories
fallow meteor
How do you guys feel about the Fathoms deck for tanking?
stoic aspen
ew
glossy beacon
not sure it'll beat out the blockades one
chilly brook
Why would you use it?
fallow meteor
Yeah I know but you can wear both and they proc
chilly brook
Outside of just trying to push more damage
fallow meteor
Because there aren't very many good trinkets right now. I'm just thinking out loud
chilly brook
There’s a few
fallow meteor
Pushing damage plus the armor
fallow meteor
No luck with either yet
uneven mason
Howler is probably best at higher ilvls
getting it to drop before uldir hits
that's the trick
chilly brook
Some of the world quest ones haven’t been bad either
Then again I’ve been lucky and have them all at 340
But no weapon
fallow meteor
chilly brook
I is sad boi
old night
So I just read the post about the DMD: Blockades
is it actually worth dropping the gold on and having?
chilly brook
Yes
old night
From what I got from the post it will only be replaced by high ilvl in uldir
prisma crane
fathoms isnt bad
fallow meteor
@old night I think so. It's going for 20k on our server
prisma crane
it's a solid pre raid choice
old night
im on proudmoore, lemme check
chilly brook
And who knows how long you’ll be stuck without a trinket drop
glossy beacon
anyone have this?
prisma crane
and tbh @chilly brook imo warr are going to be relatively better in raids than M+
chilly brook
@prisma crane tbh I think war will be solid all around
old night
Thanks guys
chilly brook
Just will require a decent player behind it
prisma crane
solid sure, bottom 2 in M+, likely
glossy beacon
i picked up that trinket in underrot and it procs quite a bit
chilly brook
It seems like a nice trinket not sure how well it actually does
prisma crane
any time anyone says decent player behind it means it's already not in a great spot, because comparisons are on equally skilled players behind it, and stuff isnt balanced around high school dropouts
chilly brook
That’s not exactly true
prisma crane
ok, nvm, people who care enough to compare will be in content where the differences matter
chilly brook
Hell you can look at disc priest in legion to see its demonstrably false
chilly brook
Wasn’t really talking about that
ember arrow
you can be a good disc priest all you want
wide juniper
🍿
cyan cargo
what do you think we would see then?
prisma crane
maybe one dungeon here and there we'll be within 1-2 keys of top, but overall, not great
chilly brook
I was talking about the idea that saying that “any time anyone says decent player behind it means it's already not in a great spot, because comparisons are on equally skilled players behind it, and stuff isnt balanced around high school dropouts”
Isn’t an inherently true statement
prisma crane
@cyan cargo DK DH
ember arrow
i love my warr, but you do need more effort to be at/below other tank's survivability
cyan cargo
i feel like blood is kinda crappy right now with the gcd ...
prisma crane
maybe pally
cyan cargo
dg on global?
ember arrow
np
prisma crane
blood also have grip, which is a utility above all others
chilly brook
DG?
ember arrow
its a 15 sec cd
ember arrow
its not like u use it as much as DS/Avatar?IP
chilly brook
You mean the super short death grip global that you don’t notice
ember arrow
^
cyan cargo
i also feel rune gen is stupid slow ... maybe i'm just lacking haste idk
chilly brook
I mean from my DK friends they say it literally feels like legion
With slightly less healing
ember arrow
just pick all the haste procs/trinks/traits
cyan cargo
the mass grip is awesome, i do agree. guess i just need better rng lul, mostly crit/verse gear right now...
ember arrow
vers=haste
you will not agree probably
but hey
all secondaries are incredibly close rn
molten rivet
Right now, on warrior, the pull is what I'm mostly worried about. I either spend globals on getting snap threat, or go for pure survivability and lose threat (talking about pack pulls ofc and arms warriors going haywire) Is there any middle ground style of pulling you guys prefer?
ember arrow
dont bring arms warriors
or tell em to wait
if they g orecklessness and spin 2win
no tank can hold aggro
molten rivet
Taunt is fine on single target ofc. But honestly you don't even need taunt on single target to pull. It's about (spread out) AoE packs
molten rivet
Especially with heroic throw and charge both on the GBC
viral jackal
I've been having a decently easy time with threat. Intervene in + clap, shockwave, devastate proc (hopefully) another thunderclap, usually fine by then.
Sometimes you have stupid dps pull threat because they start too soon but there's nothing yo ucan do against that.
grim prism
This is kind of an indirect answer, but I have a mouseover macro for heroic throw
chilly brook
I do M0s with a pretty nutty arms warrior I have no issues with threat
molten rivet
Don't get me wrong, i'm not having issues with threat. But with weaving it in with survivability. I can't even start ava+demo because that costs too many GBC, which I'd rather spend on TC/Rev
grim prism
Makes it easy to grab new adds without having to leave melee or use a taunt (which you will need in case a DPS pulls off you)
viral jackal
Whats your iLvl?
I will say - having Deafening Crash on the Azerite Pieces helps immensely.
kind prairie
If it's a bigger pull I'll precast avatar, charge, shockwave, Demo, and defensives and then start DPSing away
grim prism
Also, idk about you guys, but I honestly use avatar on prepull so I can start DPSing immediately. I'd rather waste a global of avatar than have to play catchup on aggro
molten rivet
@viral jackal Yea I think it's mostly an issue with DPS going all out too soon. Maybe it's just me having trouble accepting the loss of snap threat that we had in Legion.
grim prism
Makes it easy af to maximize that demo shout too
chilly brook
Yea @grim prism I do the same
grim prism
If you have DC traits of course
kind prairie
Shockwave is your friend too
chilly brook
On pull timer I avatar at like 2 seconds
molten rivet
Thats actually good advise! @grim prism
chilly brook
Or right before I go into a pack of adds
viral jackal
@molten rivet It's for sure different but you'll get into a groove. Don't be afraid to use shockwave to give you a little extra time to slam threat
glossy beacon
😮
junior ivy
hahaha
prisma crane
im so lazy atm, and idk why
glossy beacon
same lmao
glossy beacon
like all the champions i have is from contract passive lolol
viral jackal
I've run some version of Atal Dazar 19 times and Rezan has yet to drop me a trinket or shield. Feels bad.com
prisma crane
dont worry, once you get one, it'll keep dropping to add insult to injury
chilly brook
are you specific q’ing into it on heroic? @viral jackal
grim prism
@viral jackal at this point just cut your losses and save the good RNG for M+ week buddy
viral jackal
Yeah, I'm iLvl 320 which is a bummer but I've tanked mythic shrine of storms and mythic atal
chilly brook
Well there’s you’re problem
uneven mason
Ward - run every mythic twice, yet to see a weapon or shield (or trinket)
grim prism
I ran all my mythic this past week at 335 and got one sidegrade
sick sentinel
343 still 325 shield.
grim prism
chilly brook
Once you’ve done heroic you’re saved and the only way to be eligible for loot the first time is to get it on random
uneven mason
I literally had a class stacked group for my Kings rest run last night
chilly brook
Can’t specific q
steel mauve
Rng had been bending me over
uneven mason
and we got 0 weapons or trinkets
glossy beacon
making me miss the artifact weapons haha
chilly brook
Done all 10 mythics twice now no weapon for either prot or arms
grim prism
This is the week to level an alt
Or finish your attunements if youre a shitter like me
chilly brook
Already on it
uneven mason
I'm just irate cause the raidleader is like "you need 340 before raids release" and i'm over here like "But waht if RNGesus hates you and you're running everything like 100x and getting nothing"
chilly brook
My pally is 116 rn
grim prism
Guy on my realm said they needed to be AP25 for raid opening
clear sapphire
@uneven mason mine said 350 :p
uneven mason
337 sadface
chilly brook
I mean you should be able to get 340 before raid
uneven mason
I SHOULD be able too
grim prism
They arent even the best guild on my realm lol
uneven mason
but 2 weeks no shield or weapon makin me kinda ancious
glossy beacon
AP25 is absurd
uneven mason
that 310 crafted jazz
chilly brook
I don’t think AP25 is all that insane
uneven mason
350 isn't really a logical expectation
that means they expect you to have such insane luck
glossy beacon
i think i'm like AP18
chilly brook
Especially with a 30% nerf to AP needed tomorrow
uneven mason
to titanforge 80% of your Mythic drops
grim prism
To be fair, this same guy said that he's never had a girlfriend because it would interfere with his achievement runs
So that puts it in perspective
young harbor
priorities
chilly brook
Lul
viral jackal
@uneven mason Oof - that's rough. I feel like shields especially are low since so few are out there
glossy beacon
i'm sure that's why lol
timid jay
Another shield WQ on EU horde
uneven mason
Yeah, shields and weapons are just fucking stupid low droprate
timid jay
LUL
uneven mason
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
glossy beacon
"interfere with my achievements"
glossy beacon
is there a site where you can see the current WQs so i can panic at work?
grim prism
@glossy beacon get the companion app
chilly brook
When an arms warrior in your guild gets a Mythic Servant Splitter but can’t trade it to you because it was an “ilvl upgrade”
viral jackal
whats AP18 mean?
grim prism
I bet Blizz manually pads WQs for other realms this coming week
chilly brook
And all you need to replace that isn’t 340 is a weapon
grim prism
@viral jackal the artifact level on your neckpieve
uneven mason
I'm not going to expect that at all.
chilly brook
😭
viral jackal
ahh lol I'm AP17 then
if I outlive my usefulness as a prot warrior i guess i can always just arms dps
grim prism
Yeah
clear sapphire
Those ilvls on neck would help :p
grim prism
Very very visible
They wont help worth a shit if you cant log into your account for a month
daring marlin
My better half told me they have been banning loads of people
after fixing it
rip
grim prism
Welp
wild atlas
What is the exploit...?
grim prism
Thats why you dont do thinfs that are very obviously against the rules lol
@wild atlas tldr you cheese the raid party status to complete the same WQ over and over and over
And then get your account locked
wild atlas
Ohhhh wow
clear sapphire
It's a will full act compared to it just staying up.
wild atlas
I’m over here doing every WQ on the map every day, and still getting out-repped
Starting to make more sense
grim prism
Pretty safe to assume if you did it more than once in a short period that it was probably intentional
No reasonable person would assume youre supposed to be able to spam turn-ins for unlimited anything
wild atlas
Oh for sure. If you find yourself at any point saying “this is too good to be true,” then it likely is
In WoW at least
grim prism
Unless youre talking about prot cleave in Sethraliss amiright
shut rapids
How to track it?
wild atlas
I always say free too lol. But the point is made
grim prism
Easiest way is to base it off SS not having a cooldown
Hidden procs can be a bitch to work with
shut rapids
Oh so it's practically irrelevant to track?
grim prism
Yes
shut rapids
Since you want to SS anyway
wild atlas
Yea
shut rapids
Ok thanks
grim prism
Exactly
inland mesa
Sco told me warriors are bad, must be true
prisma crane
well so was Fragnance too
dark junco
Its about perception, not truth
inland mesa
Granted running m0 on the monk vs the warrior has me worried for mythic prog :-/ monk is so faceroll
severe steeple
again was fathoms ok?
prisma crane
Sco's brilliance is in having good leadership and surrounding himself by fantastic players
severe steeple
should i use zandalari instead?
prisma crane
@severe steeple for dmg it's good, for prot it's a great STR stat stick
there will be better options depending on ilvl
inland mesa
I'm probably going blockade and 345 zandalri haste proc
grim prism
@severe steeple blockades is way better for us than either of those pieces
At least at current ilvls
summer sequoia
is there any channel in Skyhold we can use for recruitment to raids or is that frowned upon
prisma crane
#promotion i suppose
grim prism
summer sequoia
cool, TY
inland mesa
Are people sticking on war even with other tanks up? I want to play it, but monk feels so much smoother/easier to heal. Those mitigation gaps are just scary. If we had another shield block charger or more haste might feel better
grim prism
Yes we are
grim prism
Using the talent build specified in the pinned guide will really help with uptimes
severe steeple
@grim prism I already have blockades wanna see with what i will pair it
prisma crane
since you'll have tanking downtime
inland mesa
Yeah shield block burns last stand gap fill shield block burns shield wall gap fill etc.
summer slate
Any prot levelling guide around? Or am I stupid for wanting to lvl as prot?
regal island
idk why they didn't bring back the rep grind items. like scyer badges etc
inland mesa
Yeah I think that's part of it with no off tank time to just recharge it's constant, whereas monk I always have stuff up
grim prism
@summer slate its all the same tbh, prot gives bigger pulls but DPS specs kill things faster
Personal pref really
prisma crane
@summer slate leveling as prot is pretty easy
inland mesa
Yeah I think that's part of it with no off tank time to just recharge it's constant, whereas monk I always have stuff up
summer slate
Any advice on what pvp talents to take while levelling?
grim prism
I leveled in prot and could clear entire quests with one pull
prisma crane
dragon charge for one
regal island
i lvl'ed as fury it was a faceroll of 10+ pulls
prisma crane
can use sword and board
grim prism
Then tried fury at 120 and was like "weow this may have been better" lol
prisma crane
and i used the demo shout one
regal island
yeah fury is by far a better leveling spec imo
grim prism
Dragon Charge is great for mobility
prisma crane
since 15 sec DS is op
grim prism
That too
prisma crane
with BV
inland mesa
I hope we clear it fast enough first week so we can run a 2nd heroic so I can test monk vs warrior and see what it feels like in raid environment
regal island
depends on how cd's line up
grim prism
They should both be similarly competitive in raids if im not mistaken
regal island
if SB lines up with tank swapping warrior wins hands down
inland mesa
Is the sewer dog the only constant tank up time one or did they take his cleave out?
regal island
pretty much boils down to is boss bursty? stack SB + Demo, if no burst rotate everything to keep overall intake dmg low
regal island
bad prot is the one that sits on a cd they could have used 3 times already
dark junco
No clue what mythic will looks like, wonder what the laser on mother on mythic will do
Will it split like in the movie lol ?
grim prism
The hardest part of getting used to new prot is less to do with IP and more to do with learning to let go of cooldowns and trust the rage flow
For me at least
inland mesa
I've struggled with wasting rage on revenge and not being proactive instead of reactive with IP
grim prism
Granted I stopped in 7.2 before we were basically SPAM IP LOL
inland mesa
I'm too in the omg so much rage spam everything phase
grim prism
I think raids will feel a lot less hectic
regal island
cast sequence revenge/ip works too
grim prism
Considering rage gen is fairly linear with mob count
inland mesa
The big dots in M0 suck too, whereas the monk is like oh whats that? And magic damage just seems to shred anything
inland mesa
Stupid murlocs or the fish people
dark junco
yeah or I think the wurms were shredding me too with like nature damage spits ?
can't remember
next ermine
Gutripper, Earthlink, or Crystalline Carapace for 2nd tier ring?
i know carapace is rated as S tier, at least in the guide, but its only 82 armor, that really worth?
grim prism
@next ermine the guide is accurate
onyx vessel
im curious wouldnt the shoulders that drop from last boss in siege of boralus be best in slot
valid pumice
Is Oswains worth buying or should I buy Fathoms instead?
grim prism
Buy blockades or dont waste your money
onyx vessel
^
silk mortar
Dont say that x)
signal plover
How much is the oswains and how hard are u pushing the raid
silk mortar
You never know
valid pumice
Already have blockades, oswains is 120k and my shield is 310
grim prism
If youre itching to burn 120k then go for it
swift sandal
At the end of the day it just boils down to, do you have the money to spend or can you wait until raid
grim prism
Youll notice a difference from 310
onyx vessel
i noticed the 31% block reduction to 40% from changes a 290 shield to 350
then next day the price of shield was 50k less
worth.
grim prism
Is it 120k worth of difference, I guess it depends on what drops for you a week from now lol
Well yeah, you went up almost a hundred ilvl on your most important piece lmao
onyx vessel
once raids come out most likely only you will be on str shields if you think about it
valid pumice
Is fathoms not a good secondary trinket?
swift sandal
Compromise would be to wait until reset tomorrow and do the 4 or 5 bosses that drop shields, then buy rather than wait another week
signal plover
Shield price will prolly go back up around Wednesday
onyx vessel
why
frosty gyro
people buying boes for raid after they dont get what they need in mythics
prices towards the end of next week on everything should skyrocket again
especially on tuesday
grim prism
Fathoms is a DPS trink, anybody know why it's asked about more often than Blockades around here?
swift sandal
Is there any word on when raidbots will be complete for Prot?
onyx vessel
who cares
grim prism
Does everyone just already have blockades or something
frosty gyro
blockades is cheap
grim prism
@swift sandal not at all in the foreseeable future
valid pumice
@Blasaq I ask about it because I've seen people say a couple of times its worth picking up, also I figured it might be worth to have the dps trinket for if I swap over
swift sandal
Thanks @grim prism
onyx vessel
it heals a decent amount the fact is the stam as well
grim prism
If youre dual-spec then sure, but you'll get mileage out of the shield I think if you plan to main prot
onyx vessel
like 12% healing a total dungeon run
impassive visage tho 2 of them is insane healing
i held a solid 3.3k healing
so good healing tank
LUL
signal plover
It's worth it for that. I have a 340 howler so #shrug
sick sentinel
hi guys, is the darkmoon trinket really the best for prot as icy veins says? not sure cause i heard the heal is like non existant
valid pumice
Not just heal its a stam boost
ember arrow
str=armor
onyx vessel
nah it heals solid
for like 30k
worth
cuz if you dont have 30k
go lvl a alt
free 20k
lusty grotto
i just bought the individual cards and it cost me a total of 26k
lusty grotto
down from around 40k which was the list price for the trinket
onyx vessel
worth.
lusty grotto
yeah totally
cerulean bison
hi everyone, I wanted to ask how do u keep track of your gear stat weights since you can't sim as protection?
lusty grotto
you don't
severe steeple
ilvl>haste>all
lusty grotto
you just ask yourself, is it an ilvl upgrade? then swap.
does it have haste vs what im comparing it to but the same ilvl? then swap
same ilvl and it has haste? does it have versa or mastery? then swap
that's it
cerulean bison
15 ilvl higher ring with haste (mine doesn't have haste) and it doesn't show as upgr so I got bugged
thanks for the mindset, it's helpful 😃
lusty grotto
its an upgrade
grim prism
Yep thats an upgrade
wide juniper
So many sim questions lately
prisma crane
well we are pretty much the only spec without a profile
and a lot of ppl just want an addon to do their thinking for them
ember arrow
you can sim tank dps
prisma crane
i personally love that we dont need to sim to check shit, but
¯_(ツ)_/¯
not prot warr atm
grim prism
You cant sim prot dps tho lol
prisma crane
only because there's no profile, it's doable, just not currently available
wide juniper
How do you decide to sim it? Blowing CDs? Not blowing CDs? SB+IP on CD?
well, not ip on cd, but yeah
You get it
grim prism
Not blowing CDs
wide juniper
Just aim for max dps without survivability in mind?
grim prism
I mean
A sim doesnt do anything except spit out numbers based on the parameters you specify, it isnt intrinsically going to tell you "this piece is your BiS"
wide juniper
Well, right.
grim prism
So there is more than one way to do it
It depends on what youre looking for
Theoretically you could continue to become tankier even beyond the point of being "tanky enough", and a sim is never going to tell you where that point is
prisma crane
if you're simming for dps, it will assume you're not sitting on dps CDs (avatar/ DS) unless the profile says to sit if stacking would make sense to wait for
grim prism
So really you would be using it to make comparisons between pieces in a metric that you had already determined beforehand
grim prism
Im not sure I understand your point
prisma crane
oh, nvm i read it wrong
a sim is based around a predetermined rotation and or priority
these have to be written
and those are the ideal dmg rotations
we get a bit more complicated than others because of how we generate resources fight to fight
on top of that, AM further affects our dmg output based on resource gain/spent
so it's safe to say that our sim will have more assumptions in it than the average sim profile
lots of ymmv
speaking of which, what's the metric way of using the term mileage? is there one?
grim prism
I mean, resource generation is likely going to be relatively simple now that RFDT is gone. Its the laundry list of other issues with the warrior module that Cosmo posted above
prisma crane
@timid jay give me EU lessons
RFDT isnt gone though
not exactly
but it's simpler to figure out
grim prism
You generate fixed rage when you take a melee
prisma crane
yea but that varies from fight to fight
grim prism
Doesnt matter at all how much damage it is
grim prism
Yes but that can be entered as a parameter in the sim... it has nothing whatsoever to do with the warrior module itself
prisma crane
i suppose
sick sentinel
is this change making enchant usable in prot?
Increased the rate at which Gale-Force Striking triggers by 100%.
for example with devastator talent
prisma crane
that's the melee speed one right?
sick sentinel
yes
prisma crane
i suppose it would theoretically be better for deva, but idk if it's enough better
to be worth using deva
sick sentinel
hmm yea thats interesting
grim prism
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say probably not because that means losing BV
lusty grotto
right
prisma crane
that said, wouldve been interesting in legion
shut rapids
Holy shit prot is my 3rd bfa character and so far this is the best icy veins guide I've seen
With azerite drops and all
timid jay
mileage as in like fuel economy?
prisma crane
so you'd just ask what your L/10km is or like, how would you ask "what sort of mileage you get?"
tiny sphinx
you can say meterage, it's a word