Feels so shitty
#protection
next ermine
peak compass
Blizz wants to shape the game experience into a form that they think will be best for the game & players. Not setting boundaries leads to problematic behavior, that in a competitive game will make that problematic gameplay mandatory for everyone competing
topaz badger
Maybe they got sick of masterloot ninjas and not being able to do anything about it?
grim prism
They wanted it to be more casual friendly and they way overstated the issue of toxic guilds brigading the loot council
grim prism
It was a dumb correction to an uncommon problem
topaz badger
that moment when work gives you more joy than the game you play for relaxation : "World of World quests"
keen yacht
content awaits
peak compass
I assumed they did that to also discourage split raid farming
keen yacht
:D
peak compass
And unfortunately loot drama still exists in wow, even in more "mature" guilds
chilly brook
@peak compass I think you mean they’re trying to casualize it and make it easier to not be in a guild
topaz badger
but not being in a guild should be bannable
keen yacht
There must always be (thuder) a LootWhore
topaz badger
being in a guid is what makes this game fun
chilly brook
I mean if you’re not in a guild you’re an idiot
next ermine
If your not in a guild your not doing end raiding anywaus
keen yacht
Wo wo wo wo wo mister
chilly brook
When people talk about anxiety in WoW 🤔
topaz badger
Hey! I'm not trashtalking
peak compass
Well sure, if running 8 different characters through content to maximize gear for everyone's actual raid character is "not casual", then removing that from the game would make it "more casual"
topaz badger
if you want a single player experience go play a (great) single player game :p
keen yacht
:D
chilly brook
@peak compass implying that was a large practice 🤔
For anyone other than the guilds that actually do this for a job
peak compass
Wasn't that the requirement for competitive mythic raiding?
topaz badger
wouldn't 4 -5chars be enough?
keen yacht
but ye playing without being i guild seems to be bad idea
topaz badger
or is 4-5 chars like casual hardcore?
merry cave
Lol so much misinformation about split runs
chilly brook
Again implying that was standard for anyone other than the guilds that actually make the race a job and get paid to do so 🤔
peak compass
There's also some people who are in a guild for more casual stuff, but would like to raid so they have to do that outside the guild - but I'm not looking to start a fight here 😛
topaz badger
I tried being casual, and do raiding outside, it still feels like a single player game
chilly brook
The fact of the matter is even if split runs were that ridiculous any guild that can’t actually do 12 hour days of raiding several days a week will never be competitive
Even with split runs
Sure they can be cutting edge but not bleeding edge in the race
topaz badger
but I'm going home too, it's not like I'm very productive here. xD
sick sentinel
Anyone have a link or tips regarding the use of keybindings I switched to prot warrior for this expansion but I have the feeling I cannot keep up with all the abilities in a situation.
chilly brook
You’ll never be bleeding edge without having the ability to put in stupid amounts of hours into the raid which blizz can’t do a thing about
keen yacht
never forgeti when method went to sleep afyer cenarius and russians took xavius xd
chilly brook
So acting like that change actually solves a problem is funny
Better start limiting all guilds to 2 nights a week and only 1 hour inside the instance per night
chilly brook
Well my point is that split runs has become a boogeyman for some reason
And acting like the loot change made it a more “competitive” playing field is an implicitly false statement
peak compass
Who said that?
@sick sentinel would a screenshot of bindings be helpful to give ideas on where to put things?
chilly brook
You highlight a practice of the most competitive guilds in your statement of making it more casual which implies you’re focusing on that instead of the more broad implications
Like literally screwing everyone else over in favor of eliminating a practice that has no bearing on you or really anyone else in here unless they’re bleeding edge
sick sentinel
@peak compass That would be very helpfull
grim prism
@sick sentinel there is never going to be a one-size-fits-all solution. I use modifier macros to bind related abilities on the same key, e.g. 3 is shield slam and alt-3 is shield block. It is easy for me to remember, and easy to press while WASDing with my hand (as opposed to a smaller or larger hand)
peak compass
@sick sentinel I'll DM you
grim prism
Just gotta play with it
chilly brook
So that little timmy can be ecstatic with his 5 ilvl “upgrade” ring with wrong stats that could be given to someone who’d be a 20 ilvl upgrade with the right stats
supple pawn
haste or armor for weapon?
chilly brook
Depends
supple pawn
i lack haste
keen yacht
stack crit for parry
grim prism
They blamed split-runs for it, and honestly I've even known a few semi-casual guilds to do split-runs, but it wasnt a gamebreakingly big issue and the loot changes honestly wont stop split runs from happening anyway. It was just a boneheaded design decision, but it is what it is so basically all there is to do now is accept it
@supple pawn we all lack haste, its fine
grim prism
@keen yacht dont troll people asking legitimate questions
grim prism
Stacking crit is retarded, dont do it.
keen yacht
but you dont want parry so dont do it
grim prism
It is our worst stat per point for survivability, and frankly isnt all that great for damage either
Recommending people stack it is just dumb
keen yacht
crit is worst stat in fuckin game
chilly brook
@grim prism it’s ok though I guess Ian “I was a hardcore raider” hazzicostas knows what he’s talking about right
grim prism
Well he did get AotC so...
chilly brook
Lul
keen yacht
xd
chilly brook
I’d be more surprised if anyone didn’t have aotc at this point
sick sentinel
🙄
chilly brook
It’s not like the window wasn’t open for a super long time and blizz didn’t give everyone a HUGE buff to do it
cosmic cargo
@grim prism tbf it's the best stat for flat DR over the course of a fight, but that doesn't mean it's good
grim prism
As a tank I would err on the side of predictability over raw volume anyday
Especially in the context of comparing other stats to crit
Hence why it is placed where it is in the official stat priority
Also good luck parrying a frontal mechanic
Lol
prisma crane
crit just isnt good for us in general atm, no need to confuse people with 10 minute damage taken averages that mean nothing in practice
grim prism
Yeah there has been an unsafe level of parry dickriding in here this morning
New players are going to get the wrong idea
prisma crane
i mean, it's a fair question to ask, but for warriors, it's not something we rely on
grim prism
Its an answer to a question that nobody has actually asked this morning lol
timid jay
Dont think parry scales like that
prisma crane
yea there's DR on it afaik
timid jay
But yeah, parry is great for overall damage reduction. Its just way too unreliable
prisma crane
if free proc revenge actually gave us rage, it might get a small amount of traction, but still not enough to pass the others i'd imagine
uneven mason
Dis good?
next goblet
pooper
uneven mason
yeah
astral crystal
that primary stat number looks wrong
astral crystal
i have a 335 that gives 821
grim prism
Yeah something is up with that one
uneven mason
yeah its a considerably higher in game, thats the armory tooltip
grim prism
Its a DPS trink. Take from that what you will
astral crystal
haste, good uptime on primary buff if you mongo pop it
grim prism
I use it on fury
uneven mason
I even ran a few dungeons in a stacked group (4 paladins and a warrior)
astral crystal
bandages*
grim prism
Rolling wraps on deck, sounds like my raid night lol420blazeit
uneven mason
F
astral crystal
lol
prisma crane
yea @uneven mason FeelsNAAllianceMan
uneven mason
I mean, I'm using the flask for prot right now, that click is a pretty sizeable chunk of armor
on demand
grim prism
True
Any idea how much DR it adds, offhand?
Disregarding the fact that your initial armor value affects the result via diminishing returns
prisma crane
armor DR is linear
uneven mason
If only armory gave us actual information about our characters
untold moth
I tanked most of mythic Antorus, but prot feels like the wheelchair spec now. Can we add the wheelchair icon to the name of the channel please?
grim prism
Oh boy here we go again
untold moth
xd
uneven mason
if you feel weak as prot, you're either undergeared or not doing it right.
untold moth
Jokes aside, I tanked siege of boralus yesterday. No problem doing it, but the spec feels crappy overall compared to legion.
prisma crane
well he did say the wheelchair spec, and if we're comparing classes, we're fairly handicapped
prisma crane
all tanks can currently tank just fine
uneven mason
its my brain that needs to be checked.
young harbor
just ignore the pain friend
prisma crane
some are just more fine than others
grim prism
It was never supposed to be an ignore mechanics button
untold moth
I feel like I never have the rage to cast ignore pain. Probably because I'm using ravager, right?
prisma crane
lol
young harbor
lols
prisma crane
it's clearly a /s
grim prism
Dude idk
untold moth
It was the meta in Legion,
uneven mason
Its not even that we're clunky, its that we're punished more for bad gameplay than we're rewarded for good gameplay.
grim prism
You never know in here
prisma crane
i'd agree with you there Ika
uneven mason
I found it metronomeish
untold moth
Spamming a button to generate rage annoys me, but at the same time, the spec feels too slow now, that i will go for booming voice I guess
Look mom, I'm pressing buttons xDDD
uneven mason
Like, there is a real war drum, one two one two one two, feeling in Protection warriors now
grim prism
I wouldnt even say that the rewards arent as significant, we are just punished more for mistakes than other specs. It has a higher skill floor
untold moth
♿
uneven mason
rather than the Caramelldansen crap that ABT prot was
grim prism
Im so glad I took the second half of legion off
uneven mason
Mind you Balsaq
untold moth
But seriously, for those that mained Prot in legion like me, don't you feel like the spec is chunky right now? less enjoyable overall.
uneven mason
A lot of folks rolled warrior alts and were like TANKING IS FUN HEEEEEE
and thne BFA was like' FUN??? DETECTED!!!
grim prism
Clunkier yes, less enjoyable not really. I like where we are at, honestly
sweet kettle
The only thing that makes prot a bit weird is the IP gcd
uneven mason
Its not even specific to prot Konigs
untold moth
You can eat and play at the same time with this GCD
grim prism
Once you get over the mental hump of IP being a rotational uptime buff, its pretty enjoyable
uneven mason
its across the board, using your GCD matters
thats all specs
started working on my paladin and monk and they're just as "clunky" (I'd say paladin is more clunky than warrior)
grim prism
And putting IP back off global wont really fix the issue we have with the lack of a simple spender, or the way it even feels to play considering it is just a 50% uptimed absorb now
uneven mason
But that's probably because I spent most of beta getting used to prot warriors hehe
grim prism
You'd be doing the same shit as now and just mindlessly jamming IP on top of it
God I cant wait for parsing season so we can have this convo less frequently lol
untold moth
Don't you miss the adrenaline of charging and spamming shield slam on the boss?
grim prism
Kind of, but I like what it has been replaced with well enough
uneven mason
I enjoy Shield slamming everything around me
with Thunderclap
Cause as fun as Infinite rage Turbo Prot warrior
prisma crane
i find tanking right now much less enjoyable @untold moth
prisma crane
sure the avatar window is fun, but that's about it
also, I'm far from a part time tank
grim prism
Maybe I'm just a masochist
I enjoy having to work for it
Legion tanking was fucking boring honestly
You could just keymash and still do a passable job
Even on prot
Less so than some other tank specs of course, but definitelt way more than now
lament perch
I feel like there is a happy medium between spamming of legion and the snoozefest of today
uneven mason
Snooze fest?
lament perch
I'm finding prot boring yo
uneven mason
This is prot warrior not bur
peak compass
Replace IP with Cata Death strike and prot will have a reactive component as well and be perfect
grim prism
I feel the exact opposite of then vs now @lament perch lol
uneven mason
Legion prot was fast
but you could literally play it using 2 buttons
just macro BC DS IP SS and SB to gether
and spam that button
lament perch
True enough.
grim prism
And I was even feeling that way in 7.2 before they broke IP
prisma crane
i disagree that you could buttonsmash in legion and be passable, maybe in simple content, but that's always been the case
uneven mason
for the most part
prisma crane
i just appreciated the pace of it
prisma crane
the ability to literally watch my CDs drop seconds at a time
grim prism
I mean obviously any current tier of mythic is still going to require you to do mechanics
prisma crane
and if you macroed all those abilities together you'd have played poorly
grim prism
Im not saying you could literally do it blindfolded
sick sentinel
lol
fossil spindle
I agree on that
prisma crane
that's not true if you compare it to other tanks
if you look at it that way, all tank floors have been raised
grim prism
Im not comparing it to other tanks
prisma crane
and that's simply due to less AM uptime
uneven mason
Amazingly Krotos
grim prism
But go on
uneven mason
That was the intent
prisma crane
i'm aware, that's still not my issue
uneven mason
And there is more to it than the AM uptime
timid jay
The loss of control as a tank just feels awful imop
uneven mason
since our AM is only 50% of our kit.
prisma crane
my issue is that we're slow AF to play and yes, we have little control on fights
timid jay
No tank really keeps control, thats the issue with removing all our self sustain and increasing the CD of AM
uneven mason
They made all tanks reliant on external intervention to survive, in Legion, Warriors more or less could self sustain because of how incredibly strong IP was at the end combined with bracers.
timid jay
You're at the mercy of healers
uneven mason
The test of skill in a tank now, is to reduce your reliance on external intervention
prisma crane
except
grim prism
And I am totally fine with that. Idk if maybe theyve buffed trash relative to bosses from last expac or what, I just feel like it requires more focus to stay alive and keep aggro, and I like the paradigm shift.
prisma crane
as a warrior
lament perch
Is IP useless now?
prisma crane
i can do trivial content and still die
grim prism
Before it was basically just "stand here and dont die" lol
uneven mason
More trash has special abilities Balsaq
prisma crane
other tanks dont have that problem
lament perch
Because I'm not noticing it
grim prism
@lament perch absolutely not, it is very impotrtant
grim prism
Its just not your primary source of mitigation
prisma crane
anything not at or above my ilvl
timid jay
m0's are so severely undertuned they are already trivial
grim prism
I'd agree with that
uneven mason
They're no more undertuned than legion M0s were though
timid jay
They were a joke as well so
uneven mason
I mena m0 is only supposed to be a little bit harder than heroic
grim prism
Theyre precisely one week more undertuned @uneven mason
prisma crane
yet i cant go anywhere without being in lockstep with my healer
uneven mason
I've soloed entire trash packs in M0 Krotos - watched paladins die to the same trash pack *shrug
uneven mason
yeah casters wreck us more than other tanks
It is, but so is saying that we're unique in that we can't do anything without our healer
this is something ALL tanks
suffer from
prisma crane
and entire trash pack is cherry picking, i've done it too, just have to have avatar up and then you're getting all KBs so you can use VR
uneven mason
I haven't seen a paladin or druid or DH or DK self sustain through packs
fossil spindle
Mini boss in Kings Rest before final boss 😂
sweet kettle
When there are only casters in a pack you IP and prey the healer can keep you up
prisma crane
then you havent seen a good one of those tanks
uneven mason
or learn how to LOS dance Flyingbugatsa
grim prism
I know its not tHe MeTa TaLeNtS but i feel like running IV while pugging healers is totally acceptable
sweet kettle
Los isn't always the solution
grim prism
LS into IV heals 46% of your base health
uneven mason
But it is good gameplay
sweet kettle
And you cant abuse it that much
timid jay
IV
prisma crane
sure, when you can use it
timid jay
🤔
prisma crane
^ waste of a GCD
grim prism
I didnt say its the go-to
uneven mason
Depends if you're pugging or not 😉
fossil spindle
Pin that
timid jay
Its still worse
timid jay
Its a net loss in EHP
sweet kettle
IV is like you are trolling but you don't want to say you are trolling
fossil spindle
Shield block uptime or IV... cant even compare that.
uneven mason
Could be.
grim prism
Playing suboptimal talents is better than dying to shitass pug healers /shrug
fossil spindle
Less.dmg taken or heal once and act like a dk... hm...
timid jay
A 20% heal with 30 second cooldown is not strong at all
Having SB up and shorter CD's due to AM will be a lot more beneficial
grim prism
But to clarify again
ITF is obviously the ideal choice and should be used as the go-to
Not even remotely trying to disagree with that
prisma crane
i know you said pugged healer, but the point still stands
perhaps you're feeling the pugged healer so much because you're already playing them down and so you're taking more dmg
and think IV is the solution
uneven mason
its more of a general "gee I wish someone would heal me, even IV looks good right now"
prisma crane
sure, but it's a trap
uneven mason
then the resto (elemental shaman) goes "sorry my cat shit in my keyboard, where are we?"
next goblet
IV is bad man
grim prism
As long as we are on the topic though
prisma crane
because you'll find yourself in that situation more often as a result of using IV
fossil spindle
Ay, mate. Dont diss resto shaman.
grim prism
Everyone seems to forget that LS heals you now
next goblet
so anyone seen a ravager tank?
prisma crane
LS has always "healed"
grim prism
Yeah they commented above @next goblet
uneven mason
Not quite true Krotos
next goblet
oh i didnt scroll up.. MY BAD @grim prism
uneven mason
this is the first time it is an actual heal
sweet kettle
It was giving you hp before only
grim prism
Yeah, LS used to give temp HP
uneven mason
prior to this it would icnrease your current HP, and max, but you would lose the extra HP when LS faded
grim prism
^
fossil spindle
Either you need to l2p or you have never seen a good resto shaman.
uneven mason
although we'll never stack crit enoguh for that to be reliable
prisma crane
the crit is the only way i've seen it change
next goblet
goodnight.
grim prism
@fossil spindle he was making a joke about offspec healers
timid jay
iirc you kept the extra HP when LS faded
uneven mason
Redboot I could have said "Insert healer class" (Not really a healer class)
fossil spindle
He better. Grr
prisma crane
that's what i thought as well @timid jay i never lost HP as a result of it fading
timid jay
It still "healed" since it kept you at the same % HP but your max hp was raised
prisma crane
yes, you lose the HP if you're above your normal cap
grim prism
I seem to recall that you kept the same % of health when it fell off
timid jay
Doesnt really matter tbh
grim prism
But i took a break so i coukd just be misremembering
prisma crane
it didnt keep you at the same%, it gave you that %
grim prism
Yeah
prisma crane
i could be at 2% and use LS in legion and be at 40 or w/e after i use it
but now it can crit, that's the only difference i see, that and it actually being on meters
uneven mason
Dating myself here, I honestly hadn't looked at the LS tooltip in years prior to now
timid jay
Idk if it scales with versatility
uneven mason
they removed the "the extra health is lost" in 5.0
timid jay
But that could be handy
uneven mason
so I Was right, just, not in a relevant timeframe.
uneven mason
So during Cataclysm it'd kill you
but Mists onward it was a 3min and was a technical heal.
prisma crane
i never played Cata, not even sad about it
Vanilla through early Wrath, then came back in MoP
MoP w/ vengeance is still my favorite era of tanking
crystal night
Anyone streaming prot war gameplay right now ?
uneven mason
snse on twitch
but yeah probably not right now
Warrior solo tanking Garrosh, doing over 50% of the raids DPS
those were the days
prisma crane
you must be talking about LFR/Flex/Normal, but yea lol
uneven mason
Normal
prisma crane
i used to kill my dps if i used Tclap when they got MC'd
prisma crane
the DoT would tick too hard
uneven mason
Remember whne warriors had an AE interrupt?
prisma crane
i remember when warriors had lots of nice things
prisma crane
the banners too
uneven mason
Skull Banner
banners in PVP yum
when Intervene was a diff ability from charge/intercept
prisma crane
i dont mind that combination
uneven mason
so you could charge, leap, throw banner, intervene and catc that engineering rogue
prisma crane
but yea, it had it's niche for sure
wild atlas
Warstomp, skull banner, demo banner, commanding, AoE silence, pummel, shockwave, charge, leap
Was insane
uneven mason
When arms could 1 shot people
prisma crane
fear, execute
could actually have feared targets not run into every other trash pack in the fucking instance without having to sacrifice a talent
even though back then you could actually survive that damage if you played well
uneven mason
20second shockwave
prisma crane
baseline
prisma crane
though i still remember concussive blow
uneven mason
I remember when Revenge had a stun
prisma crane
but in CM i used to pull a lot, that was rough, missed realm first time by 5 sec 😦
uneven mason
I mean shit I remember when SHield mastery was a thing
prisma crane
and then the next day someone beat it by like 40 sec, so we quit lol
block value in BC, getting monster SSs
auto blocker trinket
that now gives dodge or some shit
crystal night
I just looked up snse the warrior on twitch after your suggestion and the funny thing is , he and I have almost the same UI
grim prism
You must be good af
uneven mason
Or erm Shield Discipline
Shield Discipline - when Protections interrupt ability used to require you to talent into the silence portion, and your 31st talent point was what made it actually produce threat.
junior ivy
when you spend like 15 mins strategically heroic leaping up a mountain
then get to the topo
top
and notice theres a path on the other side 😦
grim prism
Too much Skyrim
signal plover
Is ikari up in here conceptualizing again?
chilly brook
@crystal night come reset I’ll probably be streaming some Mythics 😜
prisma crane
na, reminiscing
grim prism
But at least you did it the prot way @junior ivy
signal plover
I stream all 10 mythic every week
We do them spicy pulls
And I have a doggo cam
Ok back to prot topix
chilly brook
I try to pull big as much as possible because I like seeing big numbers
junior ivy
why does archeology even exist?
signal plover
For lolz
grim prism
I remember my first Temple run
junior ivy
its the stupidest profession
chilly brook
I remember watching people fail badly on the movement puzzles
junior ivy
whats with missiosn only giving like 100g? it used to be like 1000 😦
chilly brook
Looking at the movement mechanics in the last two expansions and then looking back to naxx it’s amazing how people couldn’t get past the slimes
tranquil garden
my biggest issue then was how bad internet was in the boonies, which is where i was at the time.
uneven mason
@chilly brook Durumu
tranquil garden
it wasnt that it was hard, its that i couldnt REALLY tell where the slime ACTUALLY was
wheat bronze
The slimes were obese. Hitbox was much bigger than their model indicated.
uneven mason
Durumu and Sha of Pride, those movement phases.
but mostly Durumu and if you were colorblind RIP
tranquil garden
that would be great if obesity was invisible. for everyone
prisma crane
@junior ivy they dont want people to be able to farm gold from that anymore
jovial reef
Maiden in ToS was great with colorblind ppl
uneven mason
You should have been stacking on a person for maiden anyway :p
Like "Stand inside the boomkin" not hard
I mean, if you havea whole guild that is colorblind than RIP
prisma crane
there was a lot of swapping though, that would only work if you did the janky method strat for that fight
uneven mason
Well no I mean for the orbs phase
uneven mason
hmm yeah I suppose I got burned out and didn't go into the mythic team for TOS 😄
prisma crane
best bet was just a WA that actually spelled out the color you were
uneven mason
after doing KJ
prisma crane
i got AoTC KJ through pugging
prisma crane
eh, met a bunch of neat people, took us about 5 wks i think
uneven mason
if you got the right pug
it was way more
Like, so many folks got frustraited with KJ
prisma crane
was just bad boss design
he'd have made a fantastic solo boss, like for a mage tower or w/e
but having soo many people coordinated at that level was just rough
and unforgiving
uneven mason
ANy fight where a single person can make or break a fight
I should say where a single person not the tank (because we sign up for that shit)
But that was harkening back to TBC design
wild atlas
Killing KJ was much more satisfying than Guldan, Argus, Helya or Xavius. Obvious just my opinion.
Probably my most memorable boss of Legion.
wide juniper
little over half way to revered on it
grim prism
@junior ivy its called having no life
wide juniper
I mean, I have a life. I just play late.
I miss very few WQs and just pay attention to when they expire
junior ivy
i just find wqs so boring
grim prism
Yeah, I'm still AP 15 tbh
I just dont do the whole grinding thing, unless it's slamming pluses for gear
junior ivy
lately i only do wqs if they are CoA, turtles, or part of emissary
jovial reef
good.
junior ivy
i love flyingh
prisma crane
i actually prefer no flying as well
unpopular opinion, i know
the only reason i want flying this time around is to see the world from a higher perspective, i really like the aesthetic of a few of the zones
but i also think that flying is going to kill warmode
ancient reef
i dont think you should be allowed to fly in warmode
its such a big advantage to people who can vs those we cant
humble olive
They made the dismounting stuff for a good reason
smoky wave
No flying in warmode would kill warmode even harder. Everyone gets the ranged dismount thing at least.
weary notch
yeah, flying should be non-war mode only. That's fair to everyone. Want to fly - turn it off
wild atlas
It could be awhile before we get flying anyway. So there’s a chance they already have that rule in mind (warmode - no flight)
prisma crane
no one would use warmode though if thye did that
they'd have to buff the bonus by a lot more to compensate for being much slower
grim prism
I mean
Everybody has the same unlock criteria
Flying gives you an advantage because you worked for it
prisma crane
just like gear does, i agree, i dont think that's the issue
grim prism
It's not unfair
wild atlas
Is there any incentive to doing world pvp after you complete the Call to Arms?
prisma crane
it's just an easy escape if you're a druid or something, which is lame
for fun? i feel like no one does anything just for fun anymore
plus you do get rewarded for killing bounties
wild atlas
There’s definitely raids that keep rolling. I just meant the incentive
Ohh that’s fair
weary notch
war-mode is for fun. Even with the 10% bonus, you still get more per time spent with war-mode off.
grim prism
Not sure how you figure
prisma crane
i've died much less than 10% of my time spent
grim prism
Starting zone was devoid of other faction at launch; warmode was definitely an increase in leveling speed
prisma crane
i only have warmode on
grim prism
Right
prisma crane
not to mention that if you have to
leap and intercept
and then dragon w/e it's called
you can cover a shitload of ground
grim prism
Even now that there is some crossover, its not like you are losing time. Prot is basically unkillable, and between dragon charge and boundinf stride, we can outrun literally anything incuding DHs
prisma crane
also, on that note, having pvp talents always active actually gives me more dps
grim prism
That too
prisma crane
i wouldnt say we're unkillable though, legion maybe, this, no way
grim prism
It takes a long-ass time, then
weary notch
you still get more azerite by doing 5 azerite world quests uninterrupted than you do by doing 4 azerite WQs while having to stop and PvP, even at least once
prisma crane
1v1 ppl dont attack someone with 150k hp
grim prism
Between IP and 100% demo uptime, even casters are going to struggle to drop you
weary notch
you're probably horde
prisma crane
i'm alliance
weary notch
you're lucky, then
grim prism
Mind you it's functionally 4.4 world quests, not an outright 4
prisma crane
not that it should matter much, but i wonder if my pvp transmog helps or hurts
grim prism
So it is probably pretty damn close all things considered
weary notch
I can't kill anyone 1v1. But I can be super annoying
chilly brook
Pretty much
chilly brook
Tried 1v1ing a prot pally that was a bad idea
prisma crane
dont just pop avatar right away, since most ppl will use DR
also, if you save it, might as well use avatar to break roots
we lose against all other tanks cuz LOL no heals...
prisma crane
Legion would like to have a word with you
oblique quarry
Why doesnt raidbots like tanks
chilly brook
Lul we’re not in legion are we?
regal island
prot isn't built to 1v1.
prisma crane
because simcraft doesnt have a prot profile
chilly brook
And prot was only good in world pvp
weary notch
the problem with war mode for me is that 1v1, people usually pass me by (probably because they have stuff to do). If I die in war mode, it's 13 to 1
regal island
it's to punish people for not trying to kill you while you 2v2.
prisma crane
Prot was God in wpvp
grim prism
Its not legion anymore
chilly brook
^
grim prism
Prot sucks at pvp, full stop
candid niche
? You playing the same class as me
prisma crane
i feel like youre trying to tell me something i dont already know
grim prism
The only thing it does well is reduce team damage
regal island
just carry the flag and move on.
chilly brook
Prot is literally doodoo in pvp rn
prisma crane
you're playing it wrong then
regal island
leap/intervene and flag carry and be happy
grim prism
And thats nowhere near as good as what other specs bring to the table
chilly brook
Or you’re just playing against shitters
prisma crane
we can do a lot in wpvp
chilly brook
Like?
chilly brook
You know what else draws attention and does leaps more damage?
prisma crane
like, idk, distract? or keep a healer alive while the others actually kill the idiots trying to kill the healer
grim prism
Drawing attention where it shouldnt be only works against bads
prisma crane
you know how bodyguard works right?
grim prism
We dont have as much CC as other specs
regal island
stormbolt/shockwave/shout is a lot of cc
grim prism
Yes, and it doesnt work on magic damage lolol
regal island
- dragon slow
grim prism
Like i said, all it does well is reduce team damage
regal island
basically prot is a cc with a ton of interupts
chilly brook
You’re literally better off taking an arms warrior
grim prism
It is mediocre at best at everything else
prisma crane
i'm not saying we're the gods we once were, but we're not useless
chilly brook
I mean you basically are
prisma crane
sigh
regal island
pretty good on 3v3 islands tbh
prisma crane
you cant jsut say facts and make it true
regal island
healer/dps/prot war
prisma crane
did you know that taunt allows your dps to also do more dmg to a target?
regal island
so easy to cc other players to pop their heals and farm island faster with a prot
grim prism
If you talent into oppressor yeah
prisma crane
also, i see 2 dps and a tank more often than 2 dps and a heals for IE
regal island
gotta speed run
chilly brook
@regal island I mean I’ll take sharpened blade MS>prot
prisma crane
yea of course, in instanced pvp
grim prism
Do islands really count as serious pvp? I wouldnt think so
regal island
prot you just pull upto a skull and aoe it down.
prisma crane
we were talking about warmode, which is wpvp
chilly brook
Sorry but this isn’t Legion where prot was broken and it’s certainly not the beginning of WoD where gladiator made prot super fun in pvp
grim prism
Right
Just because you can sit on a team and do aoe damage while not dying doesnt make you useful relative to other specs
chilly brook
^
uneven mason
Doing IE as prot is super fun, doing IE as Arms or Fury is an exercise in creating a repair bill
regal island
it's the cc that makes it useful
uneven mason
I suppose if I cared enough to pre create a team
chilly brook
and there’s your problem
regal island
lol pug island 3v3's...
uneven mason
But I found the ability to gather 15+ mobs up and AE them down really fast more beneficial than the bit of extra damage I might do as arms
regal island
15+ mobs prot will do as much dmg as arms.
chilly brook
And do loads more damage
uneven mason
Ah PVP IEs sorry my mistake
Yeah prot isn't super useful there
the PVE ones prot is steamroll
PVP ones, I found fury to be better than arms in the 3 that I did. ><
but small sample
regal island
fury has better self heals
candid niche
Hey I hate to break up the pvp discussion but I have a question about the functionality of IP. If you have an absorb does IP take its dmg before or after the absorb takes its dmg, effectively doubling the size of absorbs on us
regal island
not having warmode on island is still dumb though
chilly brook
Fury is going to feel better if you don’t have a healer
uneven mason
Before Khendron
regal island
but DH would just be throwing people into mobs if warmode was on island.
prisma crane
absorbs should come first @candid niche
grim prism
Prot just doesnt bring anything to the table in pvp that other specs cant do better. Unless maybe youre one of a dozen people doing 2400 3v3s with it
grim prism
Its not naysayimg, its just a fact lol
regal island
that's why disc priests feel like shit with prot warrior
shield gets burnt, then IP
uneven mason
I mean
candid niche
I don’t have an issue with disc priests only healer I pref to avoid is Druid atm cause it feels like they can never top me fully where every other healer can
uneven mason
you're still taking 50% of the leftover damage
prisma crane
anyways, back to where this all began, prot doesnt get shredded in wpvp any more than any other class, we just shred back less than a dps (no fucking shit)
regal island
yeah but by the time the shield is off, i've already generated another IP
uneven mason
Well one way you take no damage, the other way you take some damage
I guess is the way to look at it
regal island
which doesn't even stack beyond 1.3 so i'm not a disc healer fan for mythics at all
chilly brook
@grim prism and considering how well Arms is doing as shredding down targets those people would probably be doing better off as arms
I’ll take a disc priest in mythics anyday with how much damage they’re dealing
candid niche
Yea, maybe we can convince them to change it when they eventually nerf avatar to give us something else to make us worth picking over Blood dk
regal island
nah shaman all the way, purges ftw
grim prism
Kek
regal island
holy is dead
prisma crane
purge is better than MD
chilly brook
Uhhhh
regal island
i literally havent seen 1 holy all xpac
chilly brook
Holy isn’t the only one with MD last I checked
candid niche
I love seeing disc on the last fight in shrine completely destroying all the dps on the meters cause of that one buff and good play
prisma crane
no CD
regal island
^
prisma crane
i'm not referring to friendly targets
regal island
bone shields etc
candid niche
Aren’t they 2 different things ? I thought purge was the one used on enemies and md is llys
jade socket
priest has an offensive dispell
prisma crane
i guess so, biggest idiot in the land
chilly brook
Mass dispel purges all targets and dispel is a single target purge
Like why wouldn’t I take a disc priest? Big donger DPS, good heals, great utility, best external CD
prisma crane
can priest dispel remove the cheat death buff those mobs get in underrot ?
regal island
because their heals ignore the majority of our IP DR.
grim prism
@chilly brook it was one very specific niche that basically used prot team-damage reduction late into dampening, is my understanding. Also completely nonexistent below super high MMR because of being hard af. Im talking a total of a dozen people on the ladder. I agree that arms in general is way easier and more effective in 3s and was not trying to imply prot is good at pvp lol
regal island
regal island
shaman healz better + dispells
chilly brook
@candid niche not at the moment but why wouldn’t you take it anyways?
uneven mason
SHaman professional heals for underrott
regal island
- shaman has hex
chilly brook
regal island
better cc, better healz, equal dispell, and utility totems.
chilly brook
🤔
candid niche
I pref to lower my reliance on the healers as much as possible cause it lets them focus on the dps tards in my group better
uneven mason
Remember when Priests had CC?
prisma crane
the reason you take disc is because of the dmg
grim prism
I'm not sure prot goes well with disc as opposed to other healers based on the fact that we sort of overlap on the absorbs niche. I'd rather have a resto anyday
chilly brook
So no not the same
regal island
eh i take shaman for the aoe stuns
grim prism
Do we really need healer damage when we are already exuding aoe without even trying?
regal island
fear breaking totems and heals
chilly brook
You mean the stun that DR’s with shockwave?
regal island
don't care it's enough to interupt a swing timer
prisma crane
healer dmg goes a LONG way
candid niche
It’s the same reason why I have 3% leech and am trying to get more when I can :p
prisma crane
and aoe isnt the issue, it's ST
uneven mason
Spirit Link totem......
chilly brook
Any damage goes a long way
regal island
meaning 1.5sec of swing timer anyways
stun dr is meaniningless when swing timer gets reset on stun
uneven mason
Know why I think Shamans are best tanks situationally
grim prism
Stun DR is definitely not meaningless in M+ wow wee
chilly brook
Idk about you but swings aren’t exactly what chunk me
uneven mason
Because, Frostshock
chilly brook
I mean if I’m picking a favorite healer it’s a paladin
uneven mason
I like shamans the most, because blue is easier on the eyes
chilly brook
And most of what you listed can be filled in by a frost mage 🤔
dark junco
I’m a lil’ bit worried about Fetif Devourer and the 300% damage hit he does
shut rapids
Probably a controversal and often asked question, but is there a pawn string for prot warrior?
uneven mason
No
dark junco
Like I really hope we wont have a too huge gap in AM for it
uneven mason
You don't pawn defensively
dark junco
We’re one of the few thanks that doesn’t
uneven mason
generally you don't pawn at all for warriors unless you're going to resim for weights every time you upgrade a piece of gear
shut rapids
I know, I just found the stat priorities on icy veins a bit weird and strict, so I figured there must be weights somewhere
grim prism
Correct at "controversial and often asked" though lol
uneven mason
which at that point, just resim the gear.
prisma crane
no tanks can pawn defensively
uneven mason
Yeah he has that.
grim prism
For prot it is essentially just ilvl > all while prioritizing sidegrades for haste
No weights required
uneven mason
haste bestest until 100% effective SB uptime
astral crystal
remember when shield slam dispelled a magic buff FeelsBadMan
uneven mason
after ilvl
dark junco
Yeah but it’d be nice to be able to sim mitigation
prisma crane
that was the best @astral crystal
chilly brook
300% of a standard melee attack doesn’t sound all that bad @dark junco
uneven mason
I remember Atticusw
grim prism
While I wish we had reliable sims, the prio is sufficient for answering gearing questions
uneven mason
I remember how Gladiator ruined that for us
chilly brook
Especially with block and IP
grim prism
@dark junco Simc can, we are just still borked
uneven mason
Gladiator - worst thing to happen to warriors since they made Prot paladins viable
dark junco
@chilly brook fatboss says no AM = OS
vagrant cape
@uneven mason i really love pawn for dps though. If it's really close I resim, but it's a great way to see if something is a horrid downgrade or a really good upgrade if you update the weights, but that's not prot related.
grim prism
Not worth prioritizing
shut rapids
Ok thanks
uneven mason
Yeah Byron, but in generally you can eyeball that fairly easy, its going to be really close for it not to be "a mile away" sort of situation
grim prism
They are basically nice-to-haves on something that you would already equip
uneven mason
in that case, you're simming anyway.
chilly brook
@uneven mason excuse you I loved gladiator I wish they actually made it a real thing instead of canning it
dark junco
Once you reach the 50% health, he gains a +25% all damage
chilly brook
@dark junco so save your AM?
uneven mason
Yes, I know, many folks loved Glad, I Liked Gladiator too at first, I loved the flat 5% DR, I loved how fun it was to play
uneven mason
And then Blizzard used GLadiator as an excuse to make Protection a true papertank
grim prism
@dark junco something about not being coded properly on the backend and not being updated since early Legion. My understanding is the people tasked with fixing prot all main other classes, so it hasnt been a top priority
dark junco
Told you i’m worried, not retarddd
uneven mason
and leave Fury and Arms as dumpster fires for half of the expansion
dark junco
@grim prism damn, thanks
chilly brook
@dark junco which is why I said to save it and use it wisely with timers
grim prism
And we have been doing just fine with a simple prio based on mathematical assumptions
That being said, I really wish we could actually sim. Maybe sometime soon(tm)
dark junco
Yeah but its hard to get traction when we’re the only one not simmable
chilly brook
@uneven mason I mean what they should have done was just make it it’s own spec
dark junco
Wish we could pay someone to do it ffs
regal island
Oh wow ret is still broken for 385 gear (second highest behind sub).
chilly brook
Or at least heavily modify the stance and what it affects
uneven mason
Would've been hard to justify
grim prism
It was fine last expac but it has been an issue for too long for us to just be complacent
chilly brook
But nope they scrapped it 😢
grim prism
But I'm not gonna fix it, so /shrug
chilly brook
Hard to justify? Boi Druid has four specs
regal island
honestly they should just bring back defensive stance for prot
and balance around it
uneven mason
Each of which fulfills a different role
regal island
vs this IP bullshiz
grim prism
Prot IS defensive stance ;)
dark junco
@grim prism who can we pay to fix our sims?
uneven mason
"Vanguard Stance"
regal island
yeah but a toggle like the arms talent
regal island
arms does
uneven mason
Arms does
chilly brook
Outside of arms talent
dark junco
« LF programmer to fix warrior sims, pst asking price » lol
regal island
why not just move defensive stance to prot (brings down dps some but more DR) and then scvratch IP
chilly brook
Because why not just rework prot?
uneven mason
🤢
grim prism
Because that would leave us with no spender but Rev and more procs than we know what to do with @regal islandlol
chilly brook
Honestly why bandaid fix?
dark junco
@fierce juniper Can you set a gofundme so we can pay someone to fix warrior simsc ?
grim prism
@chilly brook time, money
chilly brook
It’s not like I’m getting smacked around anyways in prot to begin with
regal island
give prot execute then @grim prism
uneven mason
Prot
chilly brook
Do I need an extra 20% deduction? Nah
regal island
revenge & execute
chilly brook
I would love to have execute and heroic strike back
regal island
then it's pvp viable somewhat as well
chilly brook
Oh and the old devastate
regal island
3 birds 1 stone
uneven mason
I mean, Bolster was what, another 13%~ effective DR, fairly close to what defensive stance would've been
chilly brook
You know the one that generated rage and sundered armor?
dark junco
Well if we can get execute as a pvp talent that’d be great
uneven mason
Devastate never generated rage
regal island
sunder armor...
chilly brook
That’s not how I remember it in Wrath?
grim prism
It generated a fuckload of rage in 7.0
uneven mason
make Crit give us SBV
grim prism
Kappa
regal island
Honestly give prot the arms "defesive stance toggle" remove IP and give prot execute. (arms execute, not that limp fury generator)
uneven mason
remove Revenge CD _ spender problem solved
dark junco
^
regal island
^
uneven mason
I mean with anotehr 20% passive DR
regal island
GJ guys we fixed prot
uneven mason
we'd be like BrM
regal island
and it plays just like intented.
uneven mason
except
grim prism
Removing CD on rev sounds like a legitimately good idea to me
uneven mason
we wouldn't even have the interaction of pressing purge
yeah I think it is
or at least make parrys reset it
grim prism
Not one of those HEY GUYS WHAT IF THEY X fixes i see here so often lol
dark junco
And that stays true to the ability
grim prism
Its simple, it fixes clunky rage management, and it doesnt break DPS or mitigation
dark junco
anyone had time to spam devastate anymore?
Like I might just remove it from my bar at this point
grim prism
I got three in a row once
strong zodiac
@dark junco I'm using the autoattack talent
grim prism
RIP my laptop, chucked out the window immediately
regal island
i cast sequence it with TC, so sometimes it fills a gcd
grim prism
@strong zodiac dont do that pls
chilly brook
Damn looked it up my memory is bad but yea 15 rage cost with application of sunder
dark junco
Logitech says I pressed it 27 times since the 14th lol
strong zodiac
@grim prism Why? The other two are fairly bad.
uneven mason
0_o
dark junco
15% more and less danage
strong zodiac
booming voice is a 15% damage buff... for me.
regal island
honestly /castsequence Thunder Clap, Devastate
uneven mason
Booming Voice is all like OMNOMNOMNOM
dark junco
- sweet rage
regal island
i add a reset = 0.5
dire shoal
dumb question but does the flat block on shields get calculated
uneven mason
Vendrette BV is your #1 rage generator
strong zodiac
that lasts 8 seconds
chilly brook
You know what would be nice?
dire shoal
its 30% now but is that sliced off after?
uneven mason
@dire shoal Flat block?
strong zodiac
@uneven mason yeah... it's not.
chilly brook
If IP had a larger absorb cap
uneven mason
Its not 30%
regal island
it's a flat value
dark junco
That last 9 seconds
grim prism
Booming Voice is excellent @strong zodiac
dire shoal
yeah like a shield says "3000 block" on it or does that add Block %
chilly brook
@strong zodiac I think you’re doing something wrong
strong zodiac
2 minute cooldown for an 8 second buff is not a rage generator that's reliable at all
uneven mason
Ah ok
dark junco
2min??
grim prism
Are you not using Anger Managemebt either?
strong zodiac
yes. 2 minute.
dark junco
45 seconds
chilly brook
^
uneven mason
Vendrette I can't tell if you're a troll
dark junco
- AM
strong zodiac
Where are you getting 45 seconds from?
grim prism
I dont mean this to be rude
uneven mason
or just really that illiterate.
strong zodiac
oh, it says 45 seconds now
regal island
anger managment
strong zodiac
Strange, I just looked at it and it said 2 minutes
regal island
reduces it more
dark junco
BV is awesome now
dire shoal
"blocking reduced the damage of an enemies attack by 1645%" wtf is this bugged
strong zodiac
@grim prism That's for beginners. I've been a warrior since vanilla.
chilly brook
+thunderclap trait that extends BV debuff by 2 seconds each thunderclap
uneven mason
He's a troll
chilly brook
@strong zodiac clearly not
grim prism
Well you are playing BfA warrior wrong
dark junco
Gives you that sweet 15k+ aoe burst
grim prism
It isnt vanilla anymore
strong zodiac
Aaand muted @chilly brook
dark junco
(Doesn’t really help with raiding but w/e)
regal island
BV + Avatar + clap trait. Shit is OPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
uneven mason
Vendrette, if you've been a warrior since vanilla, have you ever got past level 20?
dark junco
Hey stop guys
uneven mason
I mean, I can say I've been a warlock since Vanilla
because I have a level 42 warlock
dark junco
Were supposed to be the good discord
uneven mason
who is sitting on Burning Blade
dark junco
Its not rogue discord here
dire shoal
The thing about playing since vanilla is that you don't know how it is now vs how it was then
chilly brook
@dark junco TBF he did it to himself
uneven mason
and hasn't been logged in for over a decade
dire shoal
Fresh players can have a better perspective
grim prism
I wrestled in high school, that doesnt make me any good at it as a dadbod-ass 27 year old
strong zodiac
neato. How about not talking about low level characters and pretending that's your main?
I'll just make it easier and block assfaces.
regal island
psh i've played melee hunter since vanilla lvl 32 rocking the staff of westfall.
dark junco
Alright so: check the pins @strong zodiac but yeah BV is awesome and helps reduce all cds with AM
grim prism
@strong zodiac for real though, picking more optimal talents will help immenaely
dire shoal
ive played for a long time and so many mechanics im like "ok is this like how it used to be, or a new version with the same name blizzard came up with"
dark junco
Gives you a nice rage boost, 15% more damage and 15 less damage taken
strong zodiac
@regal island Helbrutes haven't even existed that long.
regal island
20
grim prism
And BV stacks insanely with UF and deafening crash, too
dark junco
Can’t wait to see the traits onthe raid gear
uneven mason
30 second duration DS omnomnom
dark junco
Any of you guys will use azerite veins for raid?
chilly brook
This dude got triggered so hard