you think its any different with other classes?
#protection
lusty grotto
timid jay
Well yeah, warriors are extremely reliant on a good shield
lusty grotto
because cries in dual wield
static pilot
Well, yeah. My enhancement shaman plays more or less like it did in Legion, just in slow motion since it lost about 25% haste
if you mean other tanks, monks seem to have a pretty good handle on things atm
lusty grotto
dunno i mean weapon damage is a huge part of melee dps
so weapons are important for everybody
static pilot
I'm toting a 340 weapon, my DPS as prot isn't really an issue. I just feel damn squishy unless I'm able to pop avatar on pull and cycle demoralizing shout until the pack is dead
timid jay
I'd argue a shield matters more
static pilot
I really do hope a better shield will help but the GCD clunkiness is just... urtgh
lusty grotto
i wasn't talking about prot though
amber siren
Shield block rating is crazy important rn
static pilot
ah, my bad
lusty grotto
but yes obviously shields are the biggest upgrade
i'm just saying that if you think weapon drops are bad
melee dps are also crying about them
so it affects everyone pretty much
static pilot
well, I've been lucky with weapon drops. My shaman is using 350/340, I just dropped the 2h sword from King's Rest(?) on my warrior tonight
tried out Arms, kinda liked it actually
lusty grotto
ah well RNG is RNG
little star
in my m0s the MW monk got more 1h agi weapon drops than the outlaw rogue
weary notch
wait, how did the arms weapon drop for you if you're loot spec is set to prot?
static pilot
yeah, feels like I'm paying the karma police for my loot luck by getting screwed on shields. Been running every hc dungeon that drops a shield for the past five days with no luck
lusty grotto
my guild mates have been crying non stop about 1 handers
static pilot
that boss doesn't drop anything good for prot so I set it to arms to get the sword for another warrior in the party
steel mauve
I havent gotten a weapon emissary yet, mostly resources, and all my weapon wq's are 2 hand weapon ones...
weary notch
ah, gotcha
little star
i think it was a mistake not making 1h weapons have agi str and int on
static pilot
it dropped but I couldn't trade it since it was technically an upgrade for me - I was hoping 1h 340 weapon would be good enough to trade 340 2h, but no luck
steel mauve
Wq's are set for rewards, doesnt matter the spec for them
lusty grotto
same with 2handers, poor holy paladins that want to play with 2 handers
timid jay
@undone sun got 345 2h from emissary and 340 1h and 330 shield from wqs
static pilot
not gonna lie, there was a cry of anguish on disc when I said that
we're talking full on Darth Vader "NOOOOOOOOOOO"
@little star
I agree, it would be nice if there was a bit more flexibility in loot handling from Blizz's side
timid jay
Maybe
lusty grotto
the weapon drop thing will go away as soon as more content releases
static pilot
secondary stats are interchangeable, don't see why the primary stat can't be as well
lusty grotto
imo
timid jay
Maybe a system where one person could hand out the loot
We could call it loot master mode
static pilot
what, some kind of loot master? that sounds ripe for abuse
weary notch
I've never seen a shield as a WQ reward. Not once
lusty grotto
me neither
timid jay
Feels na man
lusty grotto
but im US
timid jay
LUL
little star
also them making it so a druid with a 340 staff can't trade a 330 off hand or main hand is a bit silly
steel mauve
I went from a 286 ilvl green to a 325 servent splitter 😭
static pilot
I think I saw one, it was 290 ilevel
timid jay
I've gotten 2 shield wqs on eu horde
steel mauve
Could have swore i seen a shield wq the other day
weary notch
that's messed up
little star
EU alliance ive had 1 shield emmisary
steel mauve
For US
real rover
I mean if a shield from a WQ is an upgrade for you, just grind heroics
static pilot
emissary shield?!? When was that?
little star
i wanna say thursday or friday
timid jay
Think horde had a trinket then
steel mauve
Verse trinket with str proc wasnt it
undone sun
yeah
real rover
undone sun
yup
gritty herald
Thanks guys
raven kernel
Horde with that welfare handouts
static pilot
Thanks for listening to me gripe guys. I'll keep farming for a shield in the hope that things get better when the block value goes up but I'll probably do mythics as arms next week, just set Loot pref to Prot. Insisting on tanking as Prot makes me feel like a liability atm :-/
junior ivy
i dont use anger management anymore for fury??
timid jay
I dont think you ever did?
junior ivy
hmm
lol fury channel doesnt always answer me thats why i asked here
'but im gonna look it up
timid jay
Archi's guide should more than cover that
junior ivy
k ill; check it out
ornate night
Length of the fight determines the value of it from memory
strange phoenix
How is Prot ranking right now I have always tanked on warrior just dont know how it is this xpac?
strange phoenix
so haste dependant for shield block uptime?
timid jay
Yeah, haste still reduces SB CD
sick sentinel
haste too good.
raven kernel
Quite easy to have block up for a long duration with bolster
Unless you're tanking for like over a minute straight it won't be an issue
In raids with tank swaps you'll pretty much always have block
plain ice
i was talking to someone in a heroic guild that i was considering joining. he was hesitant to trial me because i was playing a prot warrior. "yanno sco rerolled for the first time ever since warriors are so bad in bfa"
lmao
see ya
raven kernel
Heroic guilds don't have the right to be picky lmao
Just take your services elsewhere
plain ice
that's exactly what i said
bruh, i have pretty much all orange parses from legion heroics. i just don't have time to do mythic raiding anymore
he was also like "we can trial you in mythics next week. but we're going to do things to purposefully wipe the group to see how you handle it."
is it me, or is that completely asinine
dreamy gorge
lmao
raven kernel
Lmao
plain ice
i've been playing this fucking game for 11 years
never have i heard of something like this
dreamy gorge
checking if you can press that respawn button
static lance
Tell him that Sco played a guardian druid for all of Legion.
plain ice
dude i did lol
i said "yanno sco rerolled right after EN, right?"
regardless, that was my entertainment for the night
raven kernel
There's this guy on my Facebook, in a shitty guild that didn't even clear heroics in legion.
On day 3 or 4 of launch he was posting wowprogress screen caps about his rank 1 ilvl
Cringed so hard
dreamy gorge
I have never raided in WoW
started playing in the end of WoD
My ilvl is 345, am I god?
Where's my sponsor?
amber siren
heroic elitism, very srs
dark junco
more worried about mythic tbh
Guild i’m in raid mythic, kinda casual but elitist. Like 2 days a week, 3-4h, aim for half clear.
But still serious about clearing
So I just don’t want to end up benched because a DK could help progression better.
raven kernel
Can't really help you there
Diff guilds value diff things
If you're a good player you can be anything you want in my guild
When I told my gleader I'm playing warrior (dps) he recruited no other warriors for bfa
I'm running solo
Other guilds might be really anal about class and don't think much about the player playing it
And prot is definitely capable enough in raids
If you're a good tank I see no reason to be sat
Maybe on specific encounters where mass grip is super needed then you or your other tank might need to swap, sure
But encounters like that are usually just a one off
raven kernel
Honestly for tanks I value the player much more
I've seen too many shit tanks
As long as u aren't playing dh it'll be fine
dark junco
Thanks Rei
raven kernel
You'll be surprised how many bad bears I've raided with
Who before bfa have always Been one of the best raid tanks
But the class couldn't save the player
Bad iron fur uptime
Dying without burning cds
Don't know how to call for externals
Etc
sick sentinel
🤔
next goblet
finally gonna hit 120 wooo
junior ivy
how do people do so much dps as prot?
prisma crane
like ST or AoE?
undone sun
probably by using avatar 🙃
prisma crane
avatar and DS w/ TC as every other GCD
prisma crane
and SS for ST if up, and rev for aoe
prisma crane
well if your dps arent shit, you should be bottom
prisma crane
yea in aoe
junior ivy
oh okay
prisma crane
ST we're middling
junior ivy
yeah if i use my dps cds on aoe, i do pretty good
prisma crane
and afaik only pally have a chance to keep up with dps in ST
junior ivy
good to know
just makin sure im not doing somehting totally wrong
like nevere using avatar except on bosses >.>
never*
prisma crane
avatar should almost never be sat on
junior ivy
my logic was like "omg but what if we do really good and go super fast and we kill these 4 trash packs in 1 minute and then avatar isnt available for boss?!"
prisma crane
imo i prefer it on trash over bosses anyways
raven kernel
You have control
prisma crane
so what? i'll be available during the boss
junior ivy
true
raven kernel
If you can handle it, you can make it always 5 to 8 mobs per pull
junior ivy
bosses are easy anyway
prisma crane
and it only lasts 20 sec, lust lasts 40
raven kernel
And you will be top dps every time as long as avatar is up
prisma crane
so you have 20 sec leeway there, with CDR from AM to help
not every time
depends on the dps you play with
raven kernel
Even if you aren't top, you should be barely behind
Your aoe dps is as good as any actual dps
weary notch
is there an easy way in details to see what attacks you blocked, or see a percentage of attacked blocked and crit blocked?
zinc creek
Where to get a good shield? I have no luck farming heroics. 266 shield #feelsskyholdman
valid cloak
So where does prof war currently ran among other tanks (with just the gear available right now) cause I haven't seen a prot warrior in any mythic I've seen lol. Also prof war in mythic islands is horrible :/
hot locust
Prot is great in islands, what?
sick sentinel
random heroics so comfy income now.
valid cloak
I got destroyed as a prot warrior on mythic islands
sick sentinel
you probably wont see prot warrs pug mythics cus of the stigma placed against them by 'outside sources'. More than likely, they'll be in their own premade groups instead/with guildies doing mythics.
amber siren
method videos 
undone sun
as if those rankings actually mean anything
sick sentinel
mythic islands waste of time at this ilvl.
if you're not completing island expeditions in 10m or less, you're wasting time. do whats comfortable for groups ilvl
summer magnet
I hate this stigma placed upon us. 2 elitist jackoffs tried to argue that every orher tank is 100% better than warrior in any situation. No facts other than ‘Warrior tank so shit simcraft didnt even sim them’ i was blown away by the ignorance
sick sentinel
same. clearing expeditions in < 10min heroic consistent and decent AP.
raven kernel
I have a vdh alt and it feels pretty shit
I wanna just trash it and focus on another alt
sick sentinel
debating to stick to isles as prot, or start doing them as arms now w/ second wind or def stance since got it a good 2h now w/ my other 2 dps guildies.
comfy bursty aoe cleaning up.
granted, can do the same as prot. 🙃
summer magnet
I do my island expos with a boomie and ret, for some offhealing while we aoe the whole island
raven kernel
I have 2 Lord of war traits so I do it as arms
snow nest
incessantly ticking clock vs. vial of animated blood at same ilvl? Any advice?
guide doesn't seem clear on WQ trinkets
crude pond
I have problem in dungeons..
After I charge at a pack of mobs,
-
Using DS makes it difficult to take aggros and dealers get hit
-
Using TC or Avatar makes me get hit with no damage reduce for 1~2 GCD and it hits really hard.
So I usually use Shockwave but I don't think it's a good way to use it.,
How should I start combat with mobs in dungeon(usually mythic)?
timid jay
You can avatar before you intercept
Avatar > intercept > TC is 40 rage so thats enough for SB
crude pond
Then TC right after intercept?
sour wigeon
depends on the size of the pack and dungeon rythm, but you can also just pop last stand so you dont have to worry about rage starving during revenge tc spam
timid jay
and it'll give you more than enough threat
edgy prawn
cant avatar on every pull
Warrior definitely has a rougher time grabbing aggro than most tanks, atleast at lower ilvl
crude pond
if avatar in on cooldown, just intercept and TC then SB?
Is it enough threat without Avatar?
obsidian siren
Hey guys, mildly unrelated question, did blizz say if they were going to change anything to mogging options for artifact weapons that are in 2 parts (like our shield, demo weapon, etc)? cuz as is, we can't mog only part of it
sick sentinel
intercept/shield block same GCD, tclap the pack, revenge the back to get dot on them, proceed rotation.
obsidian siren
don't forget the DS for extra dmg and therefore aggro
crude pond
I thought intercept generates 25 rage
weary notch
I tend to IP (if high rage), charge, TC, Rev, Avatar, TC, then x, TC, x, TC, x TC, etc. Gives you the highest uptime on Demo Shout with Deafening Crash, therefore the highest damage output for the duration of avatar
block off GCD as needed and IP as needed
if AoE, during avatar, you usually want to TC / Revenge / TC if possible, but sometimes you want to SS for the extra rage
raven kernel
Avatar charge tc sb+demo tc revenge tc etc
Decision making is choosing between ip ss revenge between tcs
Depending on your rage and remaining ip
crude pond
Thanks I just haven't thought of using skills before intercept kk
weary notch
if you avatar prior to charge does your Demo fall off before avatar does?
obsidian siren
unless you're with 3 warriors or DH going ham, you can prolly get away with avatar after intercept ^^
raven kernel
You only lose like 0.5s doing avatar first
weary notch
I might change that up. Either way, I'm getting demo up for 24ish seconds and outDPSing almost everyone
on AoE packs, obviously, not ST
next goblet
soo whats the best way to gear up fresh 120?
im gonna craft a 300ilvl shield off rip
obsidian siren
WQs, normals?
next goblet
i still have to finish my 3rd zone.. prob that first eh? lol
trail garden
Finish zones, pick up 320 cloak from any friendly reputation, purchase 300 gear (you can find them as cheap as 500g)
Upgrade from WQ and you should be in heroics in no time.
raven kernel
Honored for cloaks
next goblet
alright cool
trail garden
Yeah honored. You should have that with a zone or two by the time you finish your story.
next goblet
i have order of embers and proudmoore at honored, gotta finish up stormsong
vagrant cape
tfw you just now realize that AM reduces the CD of shield wall.
I need to spam that more
static lance
it always did, but it also never really registered for me
Shield Wall still feels like a big long CD, so i dont want to waste it. but with AM its worth using more often
next goblet
i used it a lot, its saved my ass numerous times
ember arrow
Lol
vagrant cape
Yeah, with lots of rage dumping you can get your AM CDs lowered by about 33% at least. So shield wall goes from 240 seconds to 160 seconds (ish)
orchid flower
Does anyone else have trouble with Disc priests healing them in mythics?
or is disc just not viable for that shit
undone sun
Disc itself is fine if you pull normally, with a decent player they can keep up
but it still depends heavily on who's playing the spec
ionic fern
Disc is strong as hell in mythics..just gotta understand how they heal.
Never had problems with them thus far.
orchid flower
I see
I think it's just this particular guy, he hasn't dispelled anything off anyone ever
and should they be basically exclusively using Shadow Mend, from my pvp experience off last xpac shadow mend damages you if you dont get damaged by other sources amirite?
undone sun
no, ideally it's only used if they fall behind
undone sun
it shouldn't be their top heal by any means
orchid flower
Its 49% of his healing according to Recount
ionic fern
I mean it kinda depends on what kind of damage you are taking as well.
If you aren't playing properly he is kinda forced to shadow mend to keep you up.
But if you say that he isn't dispelling any dot's/poisons which is a major damage source right now then it might just be that as well.
Don't think priests can dispell poisons tho..only magic iirc
And diseases maybe?
orchid flower
Doing Kings Rest
and yeah its tough as fuck
I havent struggled this much in a dungeon in a loooong time
and this is the first time ive seen a disc priest in a dungeon
amber siren
kings rest is a lot of kiting
orchid flower
Yeah I realised that
next goblet
so how do we play currently? so far other than being slower paced i enjoy muh prot war still 😄
wait.. could i tank with a fist weapon if i wanted to?
undone sun
i don't think so
next goblet
no str but has haste/mastery lol
ember arrow
@next goblet fist wep doesnt have mainstat?
next goblet
it was an int one lol
didnt really pay attentions
just noticed that "hey i can totally use this to use it"
next goblet
lul as the xpac goes on, just to dick around in older content im totally going to use one without str... or a dagger
tiny sphinx
fury with offhand dagger used to be the beezneez
the AQ pugio
think it worked half decent for rage gen as prot too
copper basin
Do we drop devastator now? the tips on skyhold say it's bretty gud - yet the discord can't advise how bad it is - can anyone clarify?
copper basin
I take it the demo shout talent is where to go
raven kernel
1123211
rocky dove
So I've tanked a Mythic king's Rest this weekend with roughly 320-325 ilvl, and I was struggling quite a bit: a dozen deaths, half a dozen wipes on various bosses and trash packs, mainly because of poor awareness of where to go, frequently dipping to low HP,... Is this expected for early mythics?
or am I just shit at tanking?
merry cave
I think you need practice. My first time in there I definitely died a few times to the beserker dot and the lightning trash mob
merry cave
Might be shocking healer too hard to know
rocky dove
I think for my part, there was mainly a poor awareness of mechanics and effects, both mine and that of the enemy.
ember arrow
kings rest is completely linear
im not sure how you got lsot there
there are no branching paths
rocky dove
Not getting lost, but rather not knowing how to handle mechanics
ember arrow
well, ask away
rocky dove
like, standing in the charge, running away from the debuff
ember arrow
i did dun about 10 times now
kings rest has one of toughest trash, but it can all be handled with proper play
merry cave
I look forward to double beserker pull on fortified 👎
static pilot
How do you guys handle the berserker bleed dot?
ember arrow
on dk, you can MC one, or you spread it otherwise
static pilot
I tried kiting but then he put it on melee dps instead
merry cave
Run with guild so dps is decent and pop shield wall at 3 stacks lol
ember arrow
and dodged, but protwarr cant do either sadly reliably
junior igloo
Crit best stat confirmed?
fierce halo
What's todays reward for the honorbound emissary as warrior? (EU Realms) Can't see it on the app.
hot locust
NotLikeThis
ember arrow
600 AP for eu horde
fierce halo
Oh OK, then i can see it, thought it would be ap+item
merry cave
US got war resources last time, maybe they'll get wep this time 🤔
twilit jolt
does any1 think we will get survivability buff ??
merry cave
No, we don't need it
lethal delta
question about opening: ive read the roations / opener on icyveins but it seems more for boss rather than trash. doing avatar then demo then move feels like too much time of not doing any thing. would it be better to avatar then TC?
hot locust
Yup
lethal delta
ty. yeah seems like it needs more weaving
im bouncing between my war and dk, dk just seems to naturally do its thing but warrior needing its cooldowns so often is throwing me off
lethal delta
Yeah im learning that. i dont mind, just abit diff than what im used to
merry cave
I agree with soulwalker. Then generally then mash TC > rev and repeat for funny aoe damage
lethal delta
yeah. i love when you avatar at last boss in temple of seth. its just non stop
TC lol
thanks guys
and actually soul idk why that didnt cross my mind to avatar before charge to save a gcd..
so ty again
random finch
Whats peoples opinion going HR instead of AM for last talent row
lethal delta
i think the value from AM is just 2 huge.
random finch
Even with the more uptime on SB?
lethal delta
so many cooldowns get reduced and since we like to cycle them so much
old zephyr
AM synergized with EVERY other talents
you lose on SB uptime, but you gain so much more on Bolster/DC uptime
DS*
lethal delta
i know before in legion i didnt like prot much but i went back to it with AM and just the feeling of having my CDS up more often and available just made it feel better to play
over a small amount of extra SB time
random finch
Cause im going through the SB charges and trying to fill with Last stand and SW and i get to points where ive got only IP and getting rightfully fucked by the boss
lethal delta
whats your ilvl / trying to do
old zephyr
you should have 40+ sec of straight SB +bolster
random finch
341 and mythic
old zephyr
then shield wall and another SB
lethal delta
hmm i was lower than that and fine.. must just be a mixup im sure yer fine
old zephyr
so basically you should have 1 full minute of uninterupted mitigation
lethal delta
what boss?
merry cave
Cover those gaps with ignore pain and shield wall
merry cave
Oh your probably being tentacled
lethal delta
oh he hurts like a mofo true but ya theres hidden stuff
merry cave
Or mongo dps blowing up too many adds
lethal delta
i r mongo D:
merry cave
His base attacks aren't too bad
lethal delta
if its the add you have to tank that thing also hurts, supposed to kite it
during the party split phase
least i do. i only dip in every now and then and back off
merry cave
Yeah just kite so healer with damage buff can ruin it's day
lethal delta
oh the healer gets a damage buff during that? didnt know
merry cave
Yeah
lethal delta
neat
merry cave
Just heroic throw spam and watch it melt plus time for.your cds to come back up
lethal delta
ya the biggest hurt i get on that fight is dps killing the little dudes 2 quickly
random finch
Im not the only one that things the tentacles are hard to see on that fight
lethal delta
nah i honestly thought they were in another phase when i first saw em
then one hit me
random finch
Yer im always moving so i avoid them
lethal delta
you'll get er. i havent had too much struggles but i also play with friends
really its trash that kills me if anything. underrot maggots ahoy!
random finch
Fuck those ticks
lethal delta
i managed to survive this week. i just ran in, clapped once, shockwaved and cheesed it
random finch
pretty much the same
lethal delta
but ya idk. honestly my big thing is i forget about shield wall and last stand a lot and dont cycle them
random finch
I think my worst problem is using SB with lS to try dps more
lethal delta
ya i accidently stack em
question: does last stand with bolster boost SS damage or naw
random finch
Dont think so cause thats a SB buff
lethal delta
yeah prob not
random finch
Would be Sweet if it did
amber siren
It doesn't
lethal delta
ty
tiny sphinx
when in doubt- kite it out
silver breach
Apologies if this has been asked a lot, didnt see answer in pinned. For stat priority, is there a haste cap i need to worry about so i know how well to balance other stats with haste?
silver breach
thanks!
hearty portal
Why is haste best now again? Is it only because of the reduced cds/gcds?
vast osprey
Higher uptime on mitgation (shield block)
vocal nimbus
Almost all our cds are reduced by haste
Less cds = more rage = more rage into anger management = defensive cds more often
wet hornet
More rage for us = less rage from healers
next goblet
WTB devastator build
dull granite
I'm gonna stick with devastator.
lyric furnace
why would you do that to yourself? 😛
jade tartan
Guys, M+ drop will also be 340 right?
not talking bout weekly chest btw
just end of dungeon loot
jade tartan
so a M+5 will drop a 350 or smt?
and also, afixes will be +2 Tyranical or Fortified
and then they start adding more at +3 +6 +9 correct?
vocal nimbus
the first one is either tyr or forti
then 2 rotating between a pool of afixes
and lastly the seasonal one
junior igloo
@jade tartan
sterile ridge
Is there always a azerite armor piece?
cosmic cargo
depends how good and your group is, on affixes, on the dungeon itself, on your comp, etc
😛
but given the right circumstances should be doable right away
severe steeple
most ppl will do 4-5 max
but i am positive that there will be boost groups that wan't specific keys
spice mortar
is prot aoe gonna get nerfed cos mine is silly
severe steeple
ppl will want their 370-380 weapons
vocal nimbus
boosting keys was a thing because of the ap MoS gave
now whenever you finish a key you get another different, not the same one as early legion
tiny sphinx
maw was the perfect dungeon, short n sweet and didn't waste your goddamn time
untold adder
oh ye okay ..
cosmic cargo
it's not like early legion where keys were finite
vocal nimbus
its faster if you have a good group to lower a key and start from the bottom than boosting a random
cosmic cargo
^
severe steeple
yes but im talking farming specific dungeons
like someones BiS drops from shrine for example
cosmic cargo
considering how ilvl is king for everyone and trinkets don't stand out that much i don't think that'd be worth
junior igloo
You might prefer dungeons that drop weapons
final mist
Or shields.
spice mortar
Blockades deck any good?
severe steeple
considering you can get it for 30k no brainer
if you already have 340+ trinkets do #quickmaths
hearty turret
@spice mortar I would advise having a look at the pinned trinket list, from what I gather it is decent but getting it might depend on your server
Can anyone here confirm how block rating works in BFA? Does it increase your block chance or Dmg blocked?
final mist
Block rating is basically extra armor only when you block an attack.
undone sun
damage blocked
hearty turret
ah ok thanks @final mist and @undone sun
spice mortar
For 30k seems I may as well
undone sun
nope
keen yacht
why prot sucks so hard
undone sun
it doesn't
keen yacht
i was so happy with tanking for 2 expansions
silk mortar
Players fault ^^
potent peak
prot is amazing
silk mortar
Its start of the xpac
keen yacht
:(
silk mortar
😉
merry cave
If argue for current content (no raid or m+) prot is best tank 🤔
old zephyr
Prot is notre weak, it just have very obvious weaknesses
Some of them beeing very easy to fix with party composition
topaz badger
I'm loving my tank atm, I just hate that in dungeons atm you have too much advantage from self healing (DK, MONK)
prisma night
Self healing and monk dont go in the same sentence my man
topaz badger
well, just thinking of the last boss in siege of boralus
raven gazelle
Whats a good comp for prot?
topaz badger
When I did it with a priest, there was no issue, but when I did it with a paladin, he said he had issues healing everyone.
and it's not like it's a bad healer
raven kernel
thats a pally problem
old zephyr
My dream team is hpal+spriest+cham+hunter/rogue
raven gazelle
Ppl take too much avoidable dmg
raven kernel
my buddy heals our group just fine on his shaman
topaz badger
ye, but when he had a dk or monk tank they would just heal themselves enough and there wouldn't be an issue either :\
raven kernel
on his pally alt he struggles hard on aoe healing
prisma night
Monk has very little self healing
topaz badger
ye probably just a bad combo holy pally/prot warr in that boss then
final mist
Yes, self healing is "op" in M0s where damage intake is nonexistent
Self healing matters less the higher you go
raven kernel
^
topaz badger
ok, but where is the balance then?
old zephyr
Dk adds heal to the healer heal. War multiply it. If the healer sucks no latter how much you multiply you still get shit
raven kernel
warrior mitigation will be a very very good thing later on
topaz badger
is it normal raids? heroic? or do we have to wait for mythic raids to find the balance point?
prisma night
What? I think youte blowing this way out of proportion
topaz badger
tanks being equally valuable
old zephyr
My healer is à hpal and do just fine
Yes he has to use his CDs but eh that's Why they exist
junior igloo
I don't even know what the "obvious" weaknesses of warriors are. Seems super solid toolkit wise.
More cooldowns than any other tank (by far).
Low damage taken overall.
Strong utility with a raid cooldown, external cooldown, raid buff, AoE stun.
High mobility.
I guess lack of self healing is a weakness.
old zephyr
Weakness are Dots, and getting aggro after initial pull
junior igloo
Dots? How do other tanks deal better with them?
Why is aggro a warrior problem when warriors are top dps tanks?
prisma night
Its still early expac the aggro thing will dry up later id imagine
old zephyr
Because we do big smashes but not focused or consistent Damage
raven kernel
warriors are the highest dps tanks
if you have threat issues on warrior
its a user problem
topaz badger
I'm just saying, it seems poorly balanced if a certain comp would have issues in a m0 dungeon (with better gear cause it's week2) than an other comp in week 1
old zephyr
So if you pull well everything is fine, if the dps body pull and do dumb shit It's à problem
prisma night
Any comp could have more issues than a different one
topaz badger
Honestly, I love my prot warr right now, I love the place they're at
old zephyr
Also it can be a problem when kiting
prisma night
Sounds like you want all classes to be the same
topaz badger
no, not at all, but I want to be able to not die when my healer isn't there xD
prisma night
Healers are meant to be there, if they arent then its not the classes fault its player error
Monk will die just as much without a healer present
tranquil garden
As prot warrior I just hate having less rotational buttons to hit than other tanks.
tranquil garden
honestly with lacerate bear rotation isnt the worst
prisma night
I found warrior to be quite nice coming from monk rotation
Procs are reactive and spice it up
tranquil garden
Yeah monks having no variance is nice from a "never have to look at your bar" perspective, but for fun, yah
I know its amazing, but I hate the stomp to buff demo shout
feels so dumb "stomp away my problems" with avatar and that whole combo
prisma night
Huh i like that interaction personally
topaz badger
Just a question, do you guys ever have it happen that you are nearly rage starved when there are casters in the pack?
tranquil garden
i did at first, but now I'm tired of it.
prisma night
Fair
tranquil garden
it hasnt even been that long
I am hitting an issue of hating all tanks, but having a 5 man to play with and NONE of them wanting to touch any tanks
Cant find any fun in the role tbh
prisma night
How long have you been tanking?
tranquil garden
whenever i play, which is off and on, since wotlk. was pure pvp before then
prisma night
Hmm, maybe its just not for you
junior igloo
Rotation is not the most intuitive at times, that's true. During cooldowns you want to prioritize Thunder Clap, Shield Slam is still huge rage generator, free proc Revenges feel bad to waste and you still GCDs to dump rage to fuel Anger Management, so it's hard to say what to press when (I'm not sure myself at times, will have to think about that a bit).
prisma night
I cant imagine playing anything but a tank
raven kernel
just play prot and taunt your dps after each avatar pull
prisma night
Class aside
topaz badger
wut, so you tank for 10 years and you don't like it? holy shit
topaz badger
you can tell your friends to step the fuck up and take over for once
tranquil garden
whatever "clicked" for me liking tanks back in wotlk and thats held me to them
has now clicked off.
not one bfa tank feels right
topaz badger
prot warr feels nearly the same as wotk tbh
bronze path
switch channels then traitor
tranquil garden
minus heroic strikes/cleaves
tranquil garden
i hate IP
topaz badger
you don't even need IP anymore :p
tranquil garden
its the worse defensive feel wise
topaz badger
I barely use it
topaz badger
I only use it when I want to let the healer do dps
old zephyr
Ip is Good magic Damage reduction
tranquil garden
its gone before I can use another gcd though
yeah thats all ive been able to use it for.
old zephyr
Well other tank don't have magic Damage reduction, we are better than them =ľ
topaz badger
But uhm, if you don't enjoy tanking, don't do it, cause why else are you doing this if you're not enjoying it
this is a game
the whole part of spending time in it, is to enjoy yourself
if it's not enjoyable, find another role/class (game?)
tranquil garden
that sounds easy but thats alienating my 5 rl friends that play, thats leaving me with noone to play with, and I want to do the content, and tanks are in demand more than ever
4*
they wont tank, they only have rogue/mage/lock/ and shaman leveled rn
raven kernel
if your friends wont play with you just cos you wont tank...
tranquil garden
yeah but from their perspective i'm being selfish and ruining our 5 man
topaz badger
you're ruining their easy gearing
old zephyr
Well they are
topaz badger
they are just taking advantage of you if they talk like that
chilly barn
Hi, im looking for a macro that puts a Skull marker on my mousover target. Is this possible ?
tranquil garden
well they are dicks, but basically all I got gamewise to play with. My problem would be solved if I could just find some fun in anny of them(tanks). I guess I'll just keep ignoring the pain of shitty friends like a warrior would.
old zephyr
Find à guild =)
topaz badger
tranquil garden
So how to fix shit rng? i did 5 dungeons, got 4 drops. 2 boots, 2 chest.
topaz badger
I've got 4 heads and 4 gloves (3 of which were warforged xD)
junior igloo
I think it's something like /run SetRaidTarget("mouseover",8)
topaz badger
But I got lucky afterwards though, I only need 1 more trinket and a shield
tranquil garden
yeah no luck on shield here, still running a 300. 0 drops for shield in 23 runs this is my third tank to 120 though..
old zephyr
19 run in dungeon didn't get me to loot je weapon....
topaz badger
what, you have 3 tanks at 120 and your friends have only 1 dps each?
tranquil garden
warrior feel the worst, but they are the thing that got me to tank in the first place. and yeah.. keeping up with dailies at most though
topaz badger
where do you find the time xD I've got like only 1 main, I drag myself through the dailies, cause I hate arms/fury
tranquil garden
arms and fury are godawful
i cant see how anyone main them, and I can do some leveling for about 4 hours at work , night auditor.
grim prism
fury is fine too
tranquil garden
well fury is better than arms, it feels like playing a gameboy game, fun for like 20 minutes
topaz badger
I don't like the proc-dps-playstyle
tranquil garden
PLD to me feels dirty, feels like i'm cheating. blocking magic
muted crane
I got a 330 shield from WQ 2 days ago, so you should check those for upgrade.
topaz badger
for dps I prefer rotation, I played rogue and shadowpriest, but shadowpriest seems a bit dull right now, I liked the dotweaving in wod, but this ain't no priest/rogue channel :p
tranquil garden
my warrior had just hit cap and the shield was the 300.
raven kernel
blockades and fathoms
tranquil garden
I was under the impression the ones with strength procs. but I'd have to look again
topaz badger
or haste with strength proc :p
raven kernel
omegalul
grim prism
Honestly it sounds like you should just tell your friends to fuck off and play something else
Ordinarily I'd talk you off the ledge and tell you it feels better once you get used to the changes
tranquil garden
yeah then i'd have to go through the process of leveling a rogue or mage or something, and find a bunch of people to play with
tranquil garden
I want to like it. But the gcd changes especially on warrior, despite it being a dead horse and beaten beyond belief are baaaad to me. a gcd for IP? ugh, ava? why. and demo. wtf.
bear gets bonus points cause ironfur only eats like a partial gcd
grim prism
Only one of those things was a questionable choice imo, so idk what to tell you
Its not for everyone i suppose
I enjoy the rest of it
topaz badger
@grim prism my bad
grim prism
Sall good. Just a lot more detail in there than anything youre going to be told offhand right now lol
topaz badger
I've seen that list before, didn't know how reliable it was :p
grim prism
Up-to-date and very reliable
Marok wrote it, and Macro did a more generic list (also pinned) that has the same conclusions
topaz badger
Btw, I don't understand, both crit and strenght give parry?
keen yacht
fury is great nowdays
even arms feels right after what it was
to bad with current gear fury wont be jawdropping
signal plover
It catches up fast with raid gear tho
signal plover
Strength doesn't give parry for warrs. Increases our armor through Vanguard
Crit gives parry
next goblet
doesn't STR increase IP as well?
final mist
Through Attack Power, yes.
severe steeple
ahemm right on the stats tab str says it gives parry
signal plover
What stats tab?
severe steeple
(C)
vocal nimbus
Str increases both attack power and armor
potent peak
mouse over your strenght stat
vocal nimbus
IP benefits directly from attack power
potent peak
been there since legion i think if not longer
final mist
Strength directly increases Parry for Death Knights, but it shouldn't for us, IIRC.
The only way to increase Parry directly for Paladins and Warriors is via Parry.
loud totem
Is there any amount of haste that can make taking Devastator talent viable?
potent peak
i got 18% parry 5% is baseline 7% i get from crit rest from strenght
final mist
Ah yeah, that was added in Cata. I forgot.
And Devastator isn't viable, no.
You could make a case for it for ST DPS, but that's basically it.
It's a survival loss in all situations.
topaz badger
If you open character pane, and you hover over strength, the tooltip says it increased parry by x amount
final mist
Yes, that's because Strength does increase Parry, and I'd forgotten.
topaz badger
I just think it's weird that both crit and strength do that
final mist
Riposte was added in MoP because Warriors / Paladins needed a way to get more bang for their buck.
It kinda backfired when you had 50% Crit and ended up with 60-70% Parry Chance.
We went from being squishy and doing no DPS to Parry Revenge spam gods overnight.
topaz badger
(probably a stupid question) does parry stop all physical dmg? or to a certain %?
final mist
If an attack is parryable and you do so, you take no damage.
topaz badger
k 😃
final mist
Same as dodge.
topaz badger
But I guess as warrior we prefer versa/mastery to make damage more predictable & stable?
merry cave
Vers affects spells
topaz badger
ye, sorry last time I tanked in raiding we didn't really have alot of spell damage 😛
wotlk/cata
I hate those spellcaster bosses :p
it's nice to reflect some of their spells, but I'd rather have more rage xD
chilly brook
@tranquil garden if it makes you feel any better I’m not on board with everything being on the gcd but I’ve adjusted to it and it keeps me from actually pressing that stupid devastate button more than I have to
tranquil garden
hmmm. that is a benefit.
but it just sucks, it feels like they went out of the way to prevent dps from having too many empty gcds to activate to get to damage
chilly brook
I mean really you still get empty GCD’s with a lot of DPS classes it was really more of a “prevent all buffs from being active at once without affecting rotation” change because apparently it’s too hard to press buttons
Oh and they also gave this “meaningful choices” reasoning which tbh is fairly dumb because it’s not even meaningful at this point
tranquil garden
right, "to make it feel more impactful" its still just as impactful as it was before the gcd change.. now its just annoying.
chilly brook
Now you just prioritize some things before others in normal rotation instead of being able to use them without interrupting your rotation
Like Demo Shout>rotation
tranquil garden
If they are stunnable I tend to shockwave first, if not, i'm establishing some threat before i Demo tho
grim prism
Devastate hate is completely unfounded in BfA imo, but I've already spoken to that at length
tranquil garden
is it pinned?
topaz badger
I barely ever use Devastate anymore :\
grim prism
Nope
tranquil garden
should be. I'd read it.
tranquil garden
yeah, Rarely do I get to, but sometimes. for like5-6 seconds, every few dungeons. that and tclap
all i get to do.
grim prism
The TLDR is that Dev got pressed way too often in Legion and now it hardly gets pressed at all
If you get it four globals in a row, at all, you've frankly done something wrong
chilly brook
As it should be
grim prism
Right
tranquil garden
didnt say it was common,
grim prism
Its a filler button, it shouldnt be something you press often
chilly brook
Until they actually do something interesting with devastate I’m cool with it
topaz badger
I don't remember where I read it, but I read somewhere that devastate is the highest damage dealer, is that true?
chilly brook
Give it sunder and small rage generation and I’m ok with having to use it more often
No lul
grim prism
Uhh no @topaz badger
topaz badger
or was that in legion?
because it was spammed so much it became the biggest source of dmg
chilly brook
Even then no
grim prism
In 7.0 you spammed dev to fish for slam procs
It did fuckall for damage by itself
But thats when the hate started, and it was 100% deserved then
topaz badger
ye, I don't remember where I read it, but you read so much bs on the internet >;<
chilly brook
Shield slam in legion>all
grim prism
Yeah dont ever go on the forums or r/wow
It's the blind-and-stupid leading the blind-and-impressionable
Best source of spec-specific information anywhere on the internet is in this channel
topaz badger
👌
chilly brook
Can’t remember if it’s thunderclap of SS that does a majority of my ST damage rn
Thunderclap by far is king in aoe though
topaz badger
specially with avatar on
final mist
TC damage is relatively close to SS, IIRC.
grim prism
Probably thunderclap based on cast frequency, but I havent logged shit this expac so I guess we will find out soon enough
chilly brook
It should be close
grim prism
Itd be pretty close regardless
chilly brook
Just can’t remember which one usually comes out on top
Then again when you’re hitting 14k thunderclaps....
topaz badger
everyone at work without access to wow, talking about wow on discord 😛
topaz badger
Griff, I think the majority is probably working 😛
grim prism
Err, for seven hours?
topaz badger
rofl, you're off to a good start 😛
grim prism
Its syllabus day
chilly brook
I mean what else am I to do
final mist
Class started and already slacking off
chilly brook
Exactly
final mist
Impressive tbh
grim prism
Fuck it, show up stoned and discord all day
chilly brook
Literally nothing to do syllabus day
I’d be playing my switch rn if the gsa wasn’t sitting a few seats over
grim prism
What class are you ignoring right now
chilly brook
A theology one
signal plover
Don't worry, once u graduate and find employment u can neglect work to wallflower on prot discord
chilly brook
I mean when I graduate I’d rather not ignore work
quiet relic
Nothing to do today anyway other than to spam heroics for bag/TF anyway been unlucky with TF anyway uhhg
grim prism
Not with a theology major lololol
keen yacht
earth is flat cuz of thunderclap spam
chilly brook
Video production is actually kinda fun
@grim prism not a theology major 😂
Video production
Filling an elective
quiet relic
Are your guilds starting off in herioc or normal?
signal plover
Heroic
topaz badger
Normal for moral 😛
chilly brook
Normal>heroic
keen yacht
normal and hc
signal plover
Heroic on main raid nights and normal on an off night
chilly brook
You can knock it out in one night
quiet relic
Yeah we are starting normal Tuesday then herioc Thursday
topaz badger
tuesday? damn muricans
quiet relic
Then prob herioc a few more weeks then mythic
chilly brook
Normal Tuesday, heroic Thursday and Sunday
quiet relic
Well you know what I mean haha
chilly brook
Then Mythic the next week
topaz badger
straight to mythic?
chilly brook
Yeet
signal plover
All depends on heroic tuning
chilly brook
Cuz we’re stupid
topaz badger
I've got a good feeling about my guild, but I don't think we'll clear heroic in first week :p
keen yacht
i hope mythic will have some decent mechanix this time
signal plover
Mythrax and Ghuun could potentially be walls for some guilds.
chilly brook
I think antorus was enjoyable
topaz badger
I'm just wondering what the huge ilvl difference will mean in difficulty
chilly brook
¯_(ツ)_/¯
topaz badger
I mean, you basically wanna clear 385 content with 345 gear? :p
keen yacht
thats how hardcore guilds roll
chilly brook
Implying you need Mythic gear to clear Mythic 🤔
topaz badger
ye sorry, I mean 370 content :p
keen yacht
i guess thats how most of us roll:D
signal plover
Generally things are tuned one difficulty lower but it's also the first raid and they've been gentle in those in the last two xpacs.
topaz badger
what do you do as hardcore raider when you cleared all content in first week?
grim prism
M+
keen yacht
you spit on casuals and drink their tears
chilly brook
Continue doing it so you get full 385+ gear
grim prism
brag about heroic parses in this shithole
topaz badger
oh ok
chilly brook
And M+
keen yacht
while noobs are stuck on ez boss
chilly brook
Or just do something different and smash people in pvp with your 385 gear
topaz badger
/2 selling mythic boost
chilly brook
^
keen yacht
as you see there is plent of things to do xD
grim prism
Some guy on my realm was buying heroic tank queues 5k a pop
topaz badger
I dunno, I think I'd fall into a hole if there was nothing to reach for anymore xD
but yeh, I guess you just gear up for the next raid
chilly brook
I mean selling mythic + carries at 100+ k a pop is nice
keen yacht
do world quests. #quallitycontent
topaz badger
ye doing world quests as prot is the best
you don't die, thats a plus
or of boredom maybe
topaz badger
I just don't like it 😦
topaz badger
Why did they nerf tank dmg? it was so cool to see protwarriors topping dps xD
topaz badger
ye but I mean like, single target boss fights, thinking of WoD
chilly brook
I’ve bursted over 40k 😂
topaz badger
I loved the fight in icc, where I had to tank the 2 inactive princes
that cleave dmg :p
(ye I know it wasn't real dmg but it was on the meter :p)
chilly brook
I wish they’d increase our rage generation and give us execute and heroic strike again
keen yacht
meanwhile retibution eats glue with his 123123123123
chilly brook
I’ve actually been enjoying ret
chilly brook
Believe it or not upkeep on the templars verdict buff can actually take some conscious effort
keen yacht
its like being on paid holiday
hybrid kiln
How are prot warr for mythic dungs? I heard they're best damage tank is that true?
keen yacht
you do shit and get dps high :D
chilly brook
I mean it’s not like Arms is much “harder”
keen yacht
yyup
chilly brook
Or fury
chilly brook
Or really any specs
keen yacht
everybody love arma
signal plover
Arma is a good game
chilly brook
If only Arma 3 had good optimization
chilly brook
Too true
signal plover
K back to prot tho
I hear the off topic hammer wind up
Fuckin avatar is sick amirite bois
keen yacht
btw do you guys think there will be ban wave for wq exploit?
signal plover
?
chilly brook
So anyone wanna take guess on if blizz will revert the trading rules they put in place with forced personal loot since they walked back the azerite gear decision?
I want to believe they will but I doubt it
junior ivy
what trading rules do you mean
chilly brook
The no trading if it’s an ilvl upgrade
young harbor
ah
keen yacht
thats good rule
young harbor
may as well just bring master loot back
chilly brook
The rules that jebaited me when my guildy got servant splitter because he was spec’d prot for some reason when he doesn’t tank
And I’m still stuck with a 315 weapon
@keen yacht I disagree wholeheartedly
grim prism
@keen yacht yes but i dont think it was a widely used exploit
chilly brook
@young harbor I mean I agree
grim prism
@chilly brook they wont
chilly brook
The ilvl decision really hurts progression guilds the most
chilly brook
Especially when ilvl=/=upgrade 100% of the time
keen yacht
instead of speed runs to gear dedicated few
chilly brook
Trinkets and rings come to mind
grim prism
@hybrid kiln prot doesnt have as much utility as other tanks but we make up for it with high damage (aka easy threat), good mobility, and ridiculously strong mitigation
We will do fine in m+
keen yacht
yes it will hit the progression
chilly brook
Unless you’re talking about split runs which is a completely different thing
open bluff
It's less loot that will go where it needs to
chilly brook
^
Much harder to keep the raid well rounded out
Or funnel it where it needs to be funneled
open bluff
Oh you got a 370 ring to replace your 340? Sucks for the guy who's stuck with a 325 heroic ring because rngesus
open bluff
Nah that's a good thing
chilly brook
At least imo
young harbor
how are your guys' guilds handling raid loot distribution? just going to do the honor system on non-upgrade items? or funneling those to officers/loot council to distribute?
sorry for off topic, just curious
keen yacht
they can titanforge
open bluff
No
chilly brook
Funneled to officers
open bluff
They cap at +10
chilly brook
@keen yacht they can warforge not titanforge
open bluff
TF is +15 or more
topaz badger
Honor system, dunno if tanks and healers get prio xD
mossy cloud
!dmc
chilly brook
@young harbor we’re also doing it with BoE’s
merry cave
We just handing anything that's not an upgrade to officer to ML off
open bluff
Weapons are a huge deal for most specs, having even more RNG on such a major slot only fucks raids over even more
merry cave
Seems the best middle ground
open bluff
So I'm glad those can't go more than +10; we need less RNG in gearing
topaz badger
How did you guys like it when you got a 2hander from honorbound? 😛
merry cave
Forcing everyone to hand over all tradeable loot just seemed a bit too much
mossy cloud
Having trouble with motherlode trash. Is it normal for the pulls to hit so dam hard relative to other dungeons
chilly brook
@merry cave how so?
grim prism
Are you chainpulling
mossy cloud
Nope single trash pulls
topaz badger
don't stand in bombs? :p
peak compass
Our guild is going to use an addon to automate rolling for non-upgrades, with a social contract to not trade them under the table to your friends
chilly brook
@mossy cloud it’s the bombs that really only do damage to me
grim prism
Also can we not discuss the ethics of wow loot in this channel... i was really hoping that we were past that by now lol
oak nebula
Hey guys any opinons on duo prot warrior mythic progression? one of our guildies decided to come back and he mains warrior and its all he has so i volunteered to switch up, im just wondering if having two warriors will put a stick in the wheel due to overlapping buffs etc
chilly brook
@merry cave I’d be interested in why you thought it was too much
grim prism
@oak nebula not more so than any other two of the same class
oak nebula
its obviously better to have seperate classes though right?
chilly brook
@oak nebula shouldn’t be a problem
grim prism
I personally would advise against two prot wars because itd be nice to have a cotank with different utilities, but its not like it is a gamebreakingly big error
open bluff
The only major problem is if there's a fight prot warr is shit at, your guild will have a rough time
grim prism
You will still be able to prog
chilly brook
I mean if you really wanted to min max you’d both be running monk
peak compass
If prot warrior is good for a fight, two will probably be very good. If prot is bad, you both have a bad time
merry cave
@chilly brook just the feeling we had as officers, it's not really founded on much else. We thought having no input was silly but having everything given to us just didn't feel right for us so we chose the middle ground and will adjust later if it doesn't work :)
Nothing complex lol
open bluff
Granted Blizzard appears to be trying to move away from magic-heavy encounters, but it's something to bear in mind
chilly brook
I mean but isn’t that part of your responsibility as an officer to distribute loot when it’s not needed? Like deciding where the raid could use it the best?
grim prism
Most guilds funnel loot, and even though Blizz made it harder, the majority of serious raid guilds are still going to funnel everything that is tradeable in some form of ML or loot council
I feel like that as a blanket statement covers about 95% of the discussion
chilly brook
Fixing a problem that didn’t exist is what blizz did
open bluff
Or did they create a problem that was fixed
keen yacht
or that :D
merry cave
It is, but this is what we've decided to try. We may backflip at some point. My guilds full of mature people who had no issues with ML before so if we swap half way into a tier 95% won't bat an eye lid
keen yacht
we will see :p
chilly brook
I doubt very many people in guilds that funnel loot had much of a problem, anyone who pugged into a group and was forced into an ultimatum put themselves into that
next ermine
It's be better if loot was tradeable up to like 15ilvl. I've missed out on so many upgrades because somebody got something 5 ilvls better than what they had on